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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 3: My name is Matt, my name is Noela. They call

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Speaker 3: me Ben.

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Speaker 4: We're joined with our guest superproducer Max the Freak Train Williams.

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Speaker 4: Most importantly, you are here. That makes this the stuff

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Speaker 4: they don't want you to know. It's one of the

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Speaker 4: most exciting evenings of the week for us, fellow conspiracy realists.

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Speaker 4: This is where we hear directly from you. We're getting Oh,

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Speaker 4: it looks like we have extra letters from home. We're

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Speaker 4: very excited about that. We've We've got some Google results,

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Speaker 4: Google search results. I'm really interested in this conversation. We

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Speaker 4: have a an on the ground follow up to our

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Speaker 4: recent discussions of flex and or surge pricing. Before we

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Speaker 4: do any of that, you guys ever want to just

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Speaker 4: give up the podcasting thing and go get a bunker,

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Speaker 4: like an underground place to survive.

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Speaker 5: I have my basement's kind of bunker like. I just

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Speaker 5: need to maybe reinforce the doors a little bit. I

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Speaker 5: hang out down here a lot. I got everything I need.

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Speaker 5: We were just talking off air. I got a mini fridge,

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Speaker 5: got a freezer chest.

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Speaker 3: What else is? They're Vigie games.

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Speaker 2: A place to brew your beer in the cold dank caves.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. That was my cold dank rainbow cave.

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Speaker 5: And we're back with today's first piece of Listener mail.

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Speaker 3: This one comes from flash who's a regular contributor.

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Speaker 5: I think he probably dms each of us separately on

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Speaker 5: the Internet. I don't know if he's ever written in,

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Speaker 5: but he's a I don't want to give too much

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Speaker 5: away about the guy, but he's a really really impressive,

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Speaker 5: awesome I'm a lay.

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Speaker 4: Friend of stuff he should know as well.

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Speaker 3: Okay, very good.

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Speaker 5: I'm not gonna he has to use the nickname Flashy

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Speaker 5: as sort of a public figure per se. He's got

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Speaker 5: one of the blue check marks, but really really talented dude.

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Speaker 5: I will leave it at that as to maintain his anonym,

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Speaker 5: and he goes that is in the spirit of Listener mail.

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Speaker 5: But he did right in in regards to a conversation

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Speaker 5: we were having. I can't remember what it was surrounding,

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Speaker 5: but I think I brought up the fact that I

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Speaker 5: feel as though Google search results have gotten here, and

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Speaker 5: I think results may may vary, and and there's a

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Speaker 5: good reason for That's just what we're gonna talk about today.

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Speaker 4: I've definitely been talking with a lot of people on

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Speaker 4: social media to regarding this, because it's you know, there's

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Speaker 4: a threshold, I would argue all that after a certain

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Speaker 4: amount of people who don't know each other begin noticing

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Speaker 4: this phenomenals, right, we can't treat it as though, you know,

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Speaker 4: we can't treat it as so people are imagining something

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Speaker 4: or being gas lit.

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Speaker 5: Well, and it also depends on what you're searching for.

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Speaker 5: I don't want to get too ahead of the of

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Speaker 5: the curve here or too derailed from Flash's message. But

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Speaker 5: I actually saw a very interesting quote from Christopher Nolan,

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Speaker 5: the director, who had something very interesting to point out,

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Speaker 5: and I think this will be actually a really good

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Speaker 5: lead in to this story, and I'll just give you

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Speaker 5: the gist of it. He basically said he feels like

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Speaker 5: there isn't as much information on the Internet as people think.

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Speaker 5: Google is very good at certain things like cataloging your

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Speaker 5: personal data and selling it to the highest bidder and

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Speaker 5: using it to well, maybe not that necessarily well, maybe that,

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Speaker 5: but also specifically using it to serve you ads and

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Speaker 5: tracking your movements and your tastes and internet browsing habits,

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Speaker 5: but not necessarily search. He points out that if you

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Speaker 5: went to the library and like three different books and

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Speaker 5: flipped to some random pages and then searched for those online,

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Speaker 5: you would probably results would be more in the underwhelming

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Speaker 5: direction than they would be then having those results turn up.

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Speaker 5: And so I think there is something to be said

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Speaker 5: about that. I thought it was an interesting way of

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Speaker 5: putting it. But here is what Flash had to say

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Speaker 5: his message to us via Instagram. Something you might want

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Speaker 5: to have a look at. Just heard the podcast where

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Speaker 5: you talked about if Google search is getting worse?

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Speaker 3: In short, it is. Here's a video explaining.

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Speaker 5: How they are intentionally making it harder to find the

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Speaker 5: correct results. And he linked to an episode of the

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Speaker 5: Verge Cast. Big fan of the Verge all around really

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Speaker 5: good tech reporting. The folks that are on this particular

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Speaker 5: podcast are very much embedded, are entrenched in the SEO world,

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Speaker 5: which you know, to folks that are casual Internet users

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Speaker 5: or maybe more into like the technic side of things

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Speaker 5: can be a little bit of a snooze but we've

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Speaker 5: kind of lived and breathed SEO as part of big

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Speaker 5: websites and search engine optimization, search engine optimization one hundred percent,

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Speaker 5: and it's essentially the idea of making your content, whether

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Speaker 5: it be your website, you know, your blog, your company,

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Speaker 5: your brand UH be prioritized in search. And Google has

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Speaker 5: always kind of been a bit of a black box

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Speaker 5: in terms of like what they do to change their algorithms.

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Speaker 3: They roll out these big.

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Speaker 5: Changes and I remember back when we were more connected

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Speaker 5: to the How Stuff Works website, there would be I

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Speaker 5: don't know if you guys remember this, there'd be changes

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Speaker 5: to the Google algorithm that would change the way content

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Speaker 5: was was ranked in terms of quality content. Right, And

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Speaker 5: because some of the stuff on How Stuff Works were

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Speaker 5: these little kind of micro articles times or they were

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Speaker 5: divided up into multiple pages so you get served more ads,

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Speaker 5: we got hit by this idea of it was no

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Speaker 5: longer considered of a higher echemount of quality content. It

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Speaker 5: wasn't much substantive, substantive because it was too much little

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Speaker 5: snippets kind of not to say that taken as a whole,

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Speaker 5: this wasn't good writing. There's no shade on any of

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Speaker 5: the writers for how stuff worked. But a direction that

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Speaker 5: many of these types of websites have gone in recent

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Speaker 5: years is to break these things up so you can

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Speaker 5: get more ads crammed in there. And that's not you know,

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Speaker 5: the writer's decision. That is the powers that be, and

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Speaker 5: I think we're all annoyed by that. But that is

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Speaker 5: the kind of stuff that can't affect Google search results.

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Speaker 2: But a lot of those have switched back now to

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Speaker 2: the one wagers.

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Speaker 5: That's exactly right, and that's because of this very thing,

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Speaker 5: because it gets it's not worth feeding, it's not worthy

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Speaker 5: if you have more ads, but you have fewer eyeballs

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Speaker 5: on the ads. It doesn't really matter how many ads

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Speaker 5: you have, So I think it makes more sense to

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Speaker 5: prioritize the search engine optimization over cramming as many ads

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Speaker 5: as you possibly can.

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Speaker 3: That way, you can sell the ads.

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Speaker 5: That you do have at more of a premium because

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Speaker 5: you're getting more page views. So in order to operate

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Speaker 5: like that, guys, you have to kind of take a

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Speaker 5: company like Google at their word when they tell you

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Speaker 5: this is how we rank quality of content. This is

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Speaker 5: how we reward certain things with higher page rankings. You know,

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Speaker 5: the show them up in the results. And it's not

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Speaker 5: exactly them telling you how to quote unquote game search.

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Speaker 3: That's what everyone's trying to do.

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Speaker 5: And I think one thing that this Verge podcast pointed

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Speaker 5: out is the folks that are the most successful with

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Speaker 5: that are the ones that don't necessarily take everything Google

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Speaker 5: says as the law of the land. They do experiments

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Speaker 5: like I don't know if you guys remember when mister

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Speaker 5: Beast did a thing where he posted only thumbnails through

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Speaker 5: his videos with his mouth open. And again this is

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Speaker 5: a discuss in this Verge podcast. YouTube didn't tell him

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Speaker 5: to do that, He just tried it out and realized

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Speaker 5: that when he posted on image with his mouth open,

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Speaker 5: he got way better ranking in the you know YouTube and.

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Speaker 4: Eults wasn't out of the blue. He does a phenomenal

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Speaker 4: job explaining this, and I love what you're pointing out.

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Speaker 4: One interesting thing, just for context, that folks need to know,

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Speaker 4: and flash you are well aware of this. The vast

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Speaker 4: majority of people searching for anything on Google, no matter

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Speaker 4: what it is, the vast majority do not go to

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Speaker 4: page two of the results.

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Speaker 5: Oh that's right, that's why they They have said it

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Speaker 5: for years, like if you're not on page one of

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Speaker 5: the results, you might as well not exist, you know.

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Speaker 5: I mean, that's it's it's sort of like being featured

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Speaker 5: in like like Apple podcasts, they call it a what

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Speaker 5: do they call their band carousel, their carousel. If you're

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Speaker 5: not in the first rung of that carousel before you

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Speaker 5: have to click next, you basically have it been featured,

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Speaker 5: you know, because unfortunately, I mean I tend to click through.

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Speaker 5: I don't know about you guys, and I do tend

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Speaker 5: to click through a few search result pages. But I

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Speaker 5: think the vast majority of folks won't click to the

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Speaker 5: next set of four image tiles or won't click on

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Speaker 5: the next page of search results.

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Speaker 3: So if you're not, because people are.

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Speaker 5: Kind of inherently a little bit lazy, even on the Internet,

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Speaker 5: where it's like a literal click, you know, to get

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Speaker 5: you some more stuff loaded on your screen to look at.

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Speaker 3: But here's the kicker.

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Speaker 5: What the Verge podcast is referring to as an article

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Speaker 5: that they posted on The Verge May thirty first of

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty four. So a little late to the party

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Speaker 5: on this story, but I think it is absolutely crucial

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Speaker 5: impression and information that we should all know and that

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Speaker 5: clearly Google does not want us to know the biggest

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Speaker 5: findings in the Google Search link by Mia Sato, who

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Speaker 5: is the Platforms and Communities reporter with five years of

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Speaker 5: experience covering the companies that shape technology and the people

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Speaker 5: who use their tools. Per The Verge, the subhead, a

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Speaker 5: set of twenty five hundred internal documents, including some related

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Speaker 5: to search, call them to question the past statements made

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Speaker 5: by the company, calling into questions things like what they

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Speaker 5: said didn't matter, things that they said they weren't keeping

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Speaker 5: track of, things that they said did not contribute in

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Speaker 5: any way, shape or form.

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Speaker 3: To your Google Search rankings.

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Speaker 5: There are things in this cash of documents that indicate

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Speaker 5: that Google has kind of been lying to creators. To

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Speaker 5: what end, It's not quite clear. It's a lot of documents,

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Speaker 5: but Google is, as it described, and I think completely

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Speaker 5: accurately in this document, the biggest gatekeeper of the Internet,

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Speaker 5: and they've always been a bit of a black box

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Speaker 5: in terms of how their search works, how this algorithm works.

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Speaker 5: They make it clear right off the at that the

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Speaker 5: Google Search algorithm itself has not leaked, and SEO experts

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Speaker 5: don't suddenly have all the answers, but the information that

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Speaker 5: did leak collection of thousands of internal Google documents is

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Speaker 5: still huge. It's an unprecedented look into Google's inner workings

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Speaker 5: that are typically closely guarded. It's something that I think

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Speaker 5: we should maybe even do a little bit of a

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Speaker 5: deeper dive into.

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Speaker 3: This is a very extensive article.

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Speaker 5: There's a lot of like other kind of sub you know,

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Speaker 5: articles that are sort of using this as a jumping

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Speaker 5: off point and doing further exploration that those that cash

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Speaker 5: of documents fully available to dig through ourselves. But one

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Speaker 5: of the things that I think is interesting is how

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Speaker 5: they have clearly been being dishonest about Chrome. Okay, so, Chrome,

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Speaker 5: as we know, is also the most popular web browser

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Speaker 5: in the world. And what this document, or this series

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Speaker 5: of documents indicates is that essentially, surprise, surprise, Chrome is

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Speaker 5: basically a key logger and all of your stuff is

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Speaker 5: getting reported directly back to Google. And I know that's

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Speaker 5: no shock because we all, any of us who got

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Speaker 5: an early Gmail account, it was so convenient, so snappy,

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Speaker 5: so it worked so well. You may all recall that

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Speaker 5: we basically agree to allow Google to read our emails.

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Speaker 5: That was the early caveat, and I.

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Speaker 4: Spent a lot of time writing good emails.

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Speaker 3: I know you do. Ben.

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Speaker 5: You are very you are very eloquent in both speech

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Speaker 5: and and and the written world. I hear you're one

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Speaker 5: of the great email writers of our generation. But I

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Speaker 5: don't give it about that.

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Speaker 3: Either, dude, I really don't care.

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Speaker 5: I fully signed on for that, but they it's one

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Speaker 5: thing where they put that in the in the small

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Speaker 5: print or whatever, and it was it was not that

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Speaker 5: small because I remember that from way back when I

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Speaker 5: first got my you know, my original Gmail that I've

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Speaker 5: had for however many freaking years it's been. But with Chrome,

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Speaker 5: they unequivocally have said they don't do that. They don't

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Speaker 5: don't track your stuff, and which was just like why lie,

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Speaker 5: of course you are somebody. Again, this is pointed out

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Speaker 5: on the Verge podcast. At Google was like, isn't it

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Speaker 5: our job to like figure out what.

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Speaker 3: Kind of links people are going to? And like, how

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Speaker 3: do we do that.

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Speaker 5: Let's build the most popular web browser in the planet

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Speaker 5: and now we know everything, and of course they're keeping

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Speaker 5: track of that. Certain Again I'm not an SEO expert,

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Speaker 5: but there are certain things, certain types of fields that

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Speaker 5: are kind of hidden fields in HTML or whatever it is.

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Speaker 5: The you know, the underlying code of a website that

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Speaker 5: they said were irrelevant. This indicates that many of those

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Speaker 5: things are absolutely relevant or absolutely being tracked. I just

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Speaker 5: think it's fascinating and and very you know, the whole

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Speaker 5: don't be evil thing, So no wonder they pivoted from that.

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Speaker 3: It just feels like it's gone on the window. And

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Speaker 3: I want to open this up to the group best.

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Speaker 5: When I read the last little quote from the piece,

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Speaker 5: journalists and publishers of information about SEO and Google Search

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Speaker 5: need to stop uncritically repeating Google's public statements and take

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Speaker 5: a much harsher, more adversarial view of the search giants representatives.

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Speaker 5: This is coming from SEO expert Rand Fishkin, who is

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Speaker 5: a SEO optimization veteran kind of a guru in that field,

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Speaker 5: and he interviewed for this piece with The Verge via email,

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Speaker 5: and another guy named Mike King, who is also in

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Speaker 5: that field. But absolutely, I mean not that we ever

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Speaker 5: should be in a place where we unequivocally believe everything

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Speaker 5: giant corporations tell us about their processes, because I think

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Speaker 5: if anyone's listening to the show enough and done enough

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Speaker 5: of their homework, so we know there's always some form

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Speaker 5: of obfuscation going on.

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Speaker 3: But guys, does any of this a surprise you?

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Speaker 5: And b is there anything you'd like to know more about,

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Speaker 5: because there really is almost too much to talk about

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Speaker 5: in terms of like the types of attributes fourteen thousand attributes.

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Speaker 3: It's mentioned in the document this.

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Speaker 5: You know this is going to be something that's going

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Speaker 5: to be dissected for a long time to come.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd like to make this an episode. This is

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Speaker 4: fantastic because people know that it's true. A couple of

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Speaker 4: points to give some context here, Flash and our fellow

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Speaker 4: conspiracy realist.

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Speaker 3: One.

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Speaker 4: The clever thing about spinning off entities is that you

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Speaker 4: can pass the blame around like a hot potato, so

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Speaker 4: you could say, conceivably, we at Google never lied. Alphabet

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Speaker 4: made a decision, and that decision was not ours. I'd

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Speaker 4: also love for anybody wants to read that excellent Verge

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Speaker 4: article you mentioned.

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Speaker 2: Al.

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Speaker 4: I'd also recommend a publication that came out I want

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Speaker 4: to say, January of this year, just search for is

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Speaker 4: Google getting worse? A longitudinal investigation of SEO spam in

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Speaker 4: search engines. And this came out right around the time

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Speaker 4: people were getting really hot about institutionalizing AGI or machine

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Speaker 4: learning or llms large language models, and this is it's

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Speaker 4: a long read. I'm not gonna lie. It's not super

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Speaker 4: sexy because it's scholarship, but it is incredibly insightful. The

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Speaker 4: last point I would make is incognito. Incognito is not incognito.

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Speaker 6: You know.

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Speaker 4: The rule remains from the early days of talking on

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Speaker 4: the telephone, back when the operators had to switch you

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Speaker 4: over to party lines and stuff like that. The rule

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Speaker 4: remains you should not ever assume that anything you do

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Speaker 4: online is private if in any manner, form or fashion.

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Speaker 5: The verg folks pointed out a new browser that they

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Speaker 5: were all just raving about that apparent. I can't remember

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Speaker 5: the name now, but it was new enough that I

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Speaker 5: think if you look up new secure browse something, it'll

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Speaker 5: probably pop up. But that is the reason people like

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Speaker 5: to use things like Opera, UH and other you know,

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Speaker 5: browsers that that do potentially offer more private browsing. But man, yeah,

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Speaker 5: when you're I think we can all, for all intents

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Speaker 5: and purposes, assume that if you're using Chrome, which I

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Speaker 5: certainly am right the second, in fact, we are required

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Speaker 5: to use Chrome to run the streaming software that we

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Speaker 5: used to record this very show that you've got a

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Speaker 5: direct line to Google HQ with everything that you're doing

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Speaker 5: incognito or no.

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Speaker 2: Maybe they were talking about Brave Yeah, yeah, yeah, this

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Speaker 2: is something newer that I didn't recognize.

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Speaker 3: I'll see if.

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Speaker 5: I can find it by the end of the segment,

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Speaker 5: if not the episode. But Matt, I know this is

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Speaker 5: near and dear to you because you've been through all

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Speaker 5: of these algorithm changes as well and seeing all this

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Speaker 5: stuff in the way. You know, Google essentially is god

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Speaker 5: in this space. And I'm also wondering what you think

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Speaker 5: about why this is making search worse? Is it because

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Speaker 5: people are using their trying to do SEO based on

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Speaker 5: things that aren't actually accurate or like, as our listener

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Speaker 5: Flash pointed out, that Google is intentionally making search worse.

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Speaker 5: I didn't exactly get that from the documents. I didn't

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Speaker 5: know if you saw something that I might have missed.

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Speaker 2: Well, look, I don't know. I'm not an expert here,

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Speaker 2: but it does seem when you look at Alphabet's find financials,

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Speaker 2: like through Investipedia and a couple other things, they are

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Speaker 2: still getting most of their money through ads, right, That's

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Speaker 2: the way they make their hundreds of billions of dollars.

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Speaker 2: That's why they're such a huge company still. But they are,

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Speaker 2: like almost every other major tech company on the planet,

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Speaker 2: pushing AI as hard as they possibly can given them.

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Speaker 5: They fell flat on their face with that first roll

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Speaker 5: out of it too, with like the glue and the pizza.

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Speaker 3: And all of that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but given those developments, given the amount of money

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Speaker 2: that they're funneling into those efforts, given the amount of

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Speaker 2: information on everyone that they have, it does feel like

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Speaker 2: they will probably have one of, if not the most

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Speaker 2: robust AI, like personally catered AI system that will exist

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Speaker 2: on the planet in X years from now, and that

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Speaker 2: they're building really consistently over time, and it feels like

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Speaker 2: perhaps that's where all this is going or why things

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Speaker 2: are changing. We just don't get to see that back

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Speaker 2: end and understand it's how it is being how the

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Speaker 2: entire system is being modified, like for whatever the future

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Speaker 2: thing is supposed to be.

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Speaker 5: I'll tell you something interesting that I learned recently. I

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Speaker 5: have a really good friend who contracts with Google. I'm

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Speaker 5: not gonna say anything about what he does exactly, but

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Speaker 5: he does deal with some of this AI stuff, and

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Speaker 5: a lot of it is finding people to figure out

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Speaker 5: what to do with this stuff and how to make

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Speaker 5: it a product that people will want to buy essentially,

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Speaker 5: or like want to buy into at the very least,

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Speaker 5: and you know, because everyone's got to use it.

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Speaker 3: It's the new hot thing.

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Speaker 5: And obviously there's things happening behind the scenes that will

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Speaker 5: make it very useful in terms of you know, maybe

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Speaker 5: optimizing search or whatever, perhaps any number of things. But

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Speaker 5: there are tons of people that there's younger people that

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Speaker 5: are being paid to like figure out stuff to do

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Speaker 5: with this technology, you know, and tons of money being

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Speaker 5: thrown out. To your point, that is all from the

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Speaker 5: inside perspective, completely true.

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Speaker 3: And the browser is called ARC by the way. ARC.

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Speaker 4: Oh, oh, there it is.

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Speaker 3: I haven't played with that one yet.

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Speaker 4: I'll check it out.

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Speaker 5: We can keep this segment short because I really do

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Speaker 5: think it's worthy of a deeper expiration.

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Speaker 3: I'm glad you think so too, bim.

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Speaker 5: I didn't really have any final words, just the fact

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Speaker 5: that these attributes, there's so many of them, and it's

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Speaker 5: just essentially what this thing, you know, indicates, is that

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Speaker 5: so many of these attributes that Google said they weren't

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Speaker 5: using to categorize quality, they weren't using to to rank search.

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Speaker 5: They are, in fact, at the very least keeping track

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Speaker 5: of Now I will say again I'm non SEO expert either,

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Speaker 5: but just because they're keeping track of it doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 5: mean that's the driving force, you know, I mean, more

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Speaker 5: data is more data and anyway, as we know in

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Speaker 5: this internet, you know world, the more data you have,

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Speaker 5: the more power you have, so you know, the more

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Speaker 5: grain or you can get. But to me, the biggest

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Speaker 5: and easiest to for most of us to understand takeaway,

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Speaker 5: who's this stuff about chrome?

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Speaker 3: So there you go.

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Speaker 5: Let's take a quick break, hear a word from our sponsor,

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Speaker 5: and come back with some more Oh thank you, by

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00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,720
Speaker 5: the way, flash some more messages from you.

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Speaker 2: We've returned and we are jumping to the phone lines.

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Speaker 2: Let's hear this message from Ralph.

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Speaker 7: Guys, I'm just gonna go with You can call me

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Speaker 7: Ralph because I'm walking my dog and that's my dog's name.

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Speaker 7: I love the episode about holes and cave systems, but

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Speaker 7: I cannot believe that you didn't even mention Uber Pete

405
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:16,880
Speaker 7: this town out in southern Australia where they just dug

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Speaker 7: holes into the side of this mountain, full sized houses,

407
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 7: just really cool shit, and you just pay for a

408
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,400
Speaker 7: basic you know, whatever size that you want and then

409
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Speaker 7: you can go in and ship away at it and

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Speaker 7: like make your own shelves and stuff. But also here

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Speaker 7: in my neck of the woods, there's this place called

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Speaker 7: Subtropolis here out in a Kansas City, Missouri, and it

413
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Speaker 7: is the world's largest limestone nerd brown metropolis. I guess

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Speaker 7: that's why they call it Subtropolis. Really cool stuff. There's

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Speaker 7: like hundreds of mins files of roots to go down there.

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Speaker 7: They used to have I think they still do.

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Speaker 6: They'll have like a bizarre little drift or a lee

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Speaker 6: market type thing going on down there.

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Speaker 7: All that's really cool. On another note, third time in

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Speaker 7: a row that y'all have made a pet cemetery reference.

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Speaker 7: Have y'all watched pet cemetery here recently?

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Speaker 6: I don't know what's the deal, man, You know, sometimes

423
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 6: sometimes dead is better. I love you guys, keep up

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00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 6: the amazing work, and I'm really looking forward to part

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Speaker 6: two of Fold Who isn't always looking for more holes?

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Speaker 7: Y'all have a great day.

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Speaker 4: Nice Thank you, Ralph, and thanks to your dog. This

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Speaker 4: reminds me we talked about this in our Vampire to

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Speaker 4: Missouri episode, Oh that was a spooky one.

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Speaker 2: We talked about one of those yeh, subtropolis. We mentioned

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Speaker 2: that place that was the.

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Speaker 5: Cult one, right, that's all, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, this

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Speaker 5: is wild. The pet Cemetery rapsters. I think that that

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Speaker 5: movie just ruined all of us. I mean, no, I

435
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 5: know the book as well, but I saw that movie

436
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 5: way too young, and so a lot of that stuff

437
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 5: is embedded into me.

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00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 3: And I think we really just liked doing the Fred

439
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 3: Gwyn kind of cartoonist main accents. It's just kind of

440
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 3: a fun thing to do. Mm hmm.

441
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 2: But yes, Ralph, thank you so much.

442
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 6: Man.

443
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 2: We're very glad you enjoyed that episode. The first thing

444
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 2: you mentioned here is something that I personally had never

445
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 2: heard of and I wanted to see if you guys

446
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 2: knew about it. Kuber p d coo b e r

447
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 2: p e d Y. This is a place in Australia

448
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 2: where people have taken to living underground, fully underground, creating

449
00:24:56,040 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 2: structures underneath the earth. Because in this area, this specific

450
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 2: area that is what roughly five hundred and twenty seven

451
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 2: miles north of adelaide of the coastal plains, there in Adelaide.

452
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 2: This place gets so hot that birds are known to

453
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 2: fall from the sky. According to the BBC, electronics must

454
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 2: be stored in refrigerators often or you know, specifically cool down.

455
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 2: If you just had a house that was on the

456
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 2: surface of the earth there, it would get so hot

457
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 2: inside your house, no matter what kind of ace you

458
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 2: got going on, you have to put stuff in the fridge.

459
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 3: Dude.

460
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 5: Here in Georgia, we've gotten situations where our phones will

461
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 5: Have you ever seen that message that comes up phone's

462
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 5: overheating just from it being on the dash. It's got

463
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 5: like a red triangle and an exclamation mark in it.

464
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 3: Oh, no joke, Oh yeah.

465
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 2: Oh, but I think maybe one of the reasons that

466
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 2: Ralph was so astonished that we didn't talk about Cooper

467
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 2: Pete is because that name is it's roughly translated from

468
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 2: an Indigenous Australian term that means quote, white man in

469
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:00,160
Speaker 2: a hole.

470
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 3: Just where they belong, just stick them all in there.

471
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's literally like whole living I guess. But again,

472
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 2: this is just fascinating and the kind of thing we

473
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 2: were talking about just a little while ago when we

474
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 2: were recording a full episode before this episode was recorded

475
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 2: just this concept of wanting to live underground or in

476
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,239
Speaker 2: a cave or in a place that the earth is

477
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 2: already modulating the temperature, so we wouldn't need technology of

478
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 2: any sort, no matter what happened to keep us cool

479
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 2: and livable in a climate that is livable. If anybody

480
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 2: has been to Cooper Pete, if you have any experience there,

481
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 2: we would love to hear from you directly. It is very,

482
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 2: very very cool, and it's not the only place that

483
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 2: you mentioned, Ben, As you said, we have discussed Subtropolis.

484
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 2: The second thing that Ralph mentioned, which is a huge

485
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 2: underground business complex, massive, massive, massive, massive. It was built

486
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,640
Speaker 2: out of a limestone deposit where this company went through

487
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 2: and they basically, I don't know, board through the limestone

488
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:10,360
Speaker 2: and created these huge places where companies can move in.

489
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 2: It's a temperature temperature controlled area and they can do

490
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 2: things like work on vehicles and manufacture specific types of

491
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 2: vehicles or at least uh basically you can lift F

492
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 2: four f one fifties there. There's a there's a weird

493
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 2: place in there that's all about vehicles. Anyway, it's super cool.

494
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 2: Have you guys seen pictures of this? We're videos of it.

495
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 2: We talked about it before.

496
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 5: Yes, looking now it's super cool. I guess very rich

497
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 5: opal deposits. There lots of like precious gems and mineral deposits.

498
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 3: Coober PD is open to Australia. Yeah, yeah, what was

499
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 3: what do we moved on to?

500
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 2: Sorry, we moved on to Subtropolis. Uh, the world's largest

501
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 2: underground business complex.

502
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 3: Oh, got it, got it, got it, got it? Yes,

503
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 3: I know.

504
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 5: The Koober PD is also really cool looking, very interesting

505
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 5: structures jutting out from the sides of these kind of kids.

506
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 5: Do you think we're going to go back to cave

507
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 5: dwelling guys? Is that is that in the cards for humanity?

508
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 5: Don't call it unforced underground?

509
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 1: Yeah?

510
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 4: Rock the bells with that one.

511
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

512
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 4: There there's a lot of speculation regarding this. I can

513
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 4: say on good authority that there are multiple not just

514
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:24,719
Speaker 4: well to do individuals, but institutions that are increasingly looking

515
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 4: into this in sort of a futurism long term hedging

516
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 4: of bets. We know that good science fiction is only

517
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 4: fiction for a small amount of time. Ralph, you may

518
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 4: be interested, if you love sci fi at all, you

519
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 4: may be interested in some some of the descriptions in

520
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 4: Neil Stevenson's Seven Eves, which concerned the idea of how

521
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 4: to survive a global cataclysm. The difference here in what

522
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 4: is happening in Seven Eves is that that cataclysm is

523
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 4: relative quick. The cataclysms that the humans are facing now

524
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 4: are slow burn, slow boil cataclysms. Right, the kind of

525
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 4: thing where you look around you might realize the surface

526
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 4: of some part of the world is no longer habitable

527
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 4: without technology, arguably what's happening already, and then you decide

528
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 4: to go underground. So, in the parlance of corporate America, yes,

529
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 4: there are institutions trying to get in front of it.

530
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 4: And it's not a bad idea, It really isn't.

531
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 3: No.

532
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,479
Speaker 5: I guess sorry, I'm laid to the party on this one,

533
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 5: but I am looking at the official website for Subtropolis,

534
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 5: which doesn't that in and of itself sound like the

535
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 5: name of a Neil Stevenson novel.

536
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 3: Like it truly, truly does it does? It's unbelievable, good lord.

537
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 5: And there's a quote here again then this is like

538
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 5: for sales purposes, but apparently savings of one hundred and

539
00:29:53,680 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 5: twenty five five hundred dollars on utilities by locating operations underground. Yeah, sense,

540
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 5: you're getting shielded from a lot of the elements, from

541
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 5: a lot of the things that require you to just

542
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 5: blast ac I bet you can harness geo thermal stuff. Again,

543
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 5: not a scientist here, but I bet there's some kind

544
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 5: of way of venting. And I mean there has to be.

545
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 5: I'm just I'm curious as to what that technology looks like.

546
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 3: But what is it? Seven million, eight hundred thousand square feet.

547
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 2: Yes, and they have another six point two million expandable

548
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 2: square feet or feet four expansion basically in that limestone

549
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 2: deposit that they hollowed out already.

550
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 5: It's certainly untapped real estate no matter how you look

551
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 5: at it, you know what I mean, the underground.

552
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah.

553
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 2: Well, the reason why I even wanted to talk about

554
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 2: it here today after Ralph brought it up, is because

555
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 2: there is a foreign trade zone inside subtropolis.

556
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 3: Guys. So this is like, is that like a freeport?

557
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 4: Let the ports be free as above so below?

558
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 3: Oh geez.

559
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 2: Yes, you can defer or avoid duties on imports if

560
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 2: you send them there first, yez okay, which is again

561
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 2: like a really attractive thing if you're going to build

562
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 2: a giant factory underground. Like many not. They don't have

563
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 2: a ton of places or companies there, but there are some,

564
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 2: and they are huge, and they are very large. There

565
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 2: is one place that is there that I thought you

566
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 2: guys would find interesting too. It is a film storage repository.

567
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 4: That's right, I heard this.

568
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't would be perfect for that, yeah, yeah.

569
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 4: But we're talking preventing the sudden uh, the sudden combustion.

570
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yes, but but we're talking actual you know,

571
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 2: film in inside the giant canisters and of things like

572
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 2: the Wizard of Oz, which we just mentioned in that

573
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 2: previous episode. But super cool, super super cool. The last

574
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 2: thing I wanted to bring up before we go away

575
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 2: from Ralph's message is a place called Oh, I'm gonna

576
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 2: have to say, I might say it wrong, Darren Kou,

577
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 2: I think is how you say this. This is a

578
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 2: place in Turkey and it is so so freaking cool.

579
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 2: There are rumors of how it was discovered. There are

580
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 2: humans living on the surface right in this area, right,

581
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 2: and chickens that were kept in some of these houses,

582
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 2: at least according to the rumors, started to go missing.

583
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 3: They're like, man, the chickens.

584
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 2: Keep going missing. There haven't been any attacks, There are

585
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 2: no signs of attacks. Where the heck are the chickens going?

586
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 2: And then one person at least according to some writing

587
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 2: in the BBC and a couple other places, back in

588
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, one homeowner found that the chickens were

589
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 2: going down into this hole that he'd opened up as

590
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 2: he was doing some work on the house, where wherein

591
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 2: he discovered a giant underground series of tunnels which led

592
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 2: into a huge underground city there in Turkey. It's in Cappadocia,

593
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,719
Speaker 2: a freaking cool place that I've never heard of before.

594
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 3: Carcosa.

595
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,959
Speaker 2: It's like Carcosa, I guess, Casque.

596
00:32:58,840 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 7: Yeah.

597
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 2: You can look at this up if you'd like to.

598
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 2: The article is titled Turkey's Underground City of twenty thousand

599
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 2: people and it is in BBCBBC dot com. It's eighty

600
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 2: five meters beneath the chimneys of Cappadocia. That's what it says,

601
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 2: A subterranean city. Its super stinking cool. Eighteen levels of tunnels.

602
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 2: Imagine that, guys, eighteen levels of tunnels. If you're thinking vertically, right,

603
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 2: whoa I mean?

604
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 5: There's some really cool information on history dot com. There's

605
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 5: an article with a list of I think ten or

606
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 5: so underhistorical underground cities, places like Orvieto in Italy, and

607
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 5: let's see another one is called Petra is a very

608
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 5: famous one which I believe was featured in Indiana, Jones

609
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 5: and the last Crusaide.

610
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 3: So I mean the people of the past, certainly dug it. Yeah.

611
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 2: Now, a lot of these living spaces are reported in

612
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 2: the West as like underground cities or underground towns or

613
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 2: things like that, but often they are built into the

614
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 2: sides of mountains, which isn't necessarily the same thing. Darren

615
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 2: Cooyu was very different because it is built down into

616
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,839
Speaker 2: the earth, which I don't know, I think separates it.

617
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 3: I agree, I agreed.

618
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 2: You can also look up something called Nevshar I think

619
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 2: is how you would say it. This is one of

620
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 2: those that is built more into the side of a mountain,

621
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 2: and it's reported, of course in the BBC and other

622
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:25,280
Speaker 2: places as an underground city.

623
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,279
Speaker 3: Sorry, guys, I went on the rabbit hole now, Ben,

624
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 3: I bet you're aware of this.

625
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 5: Beijing has an underground city that was essentially built as

626
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 5: a giant bunker, you know, in the sixties and seventies

627
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 5: due to the threat of nuclear war.

628
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 2: M dude, this is very interesting to me. There's lots

629
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 2: more to learn here about underground living. Maybe there's something

630
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 2: we can do on this in the future about.

631
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 3: H perfect for that, maybe how to.

632
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 2: Live underground, Like how do you, let's say, if it

633
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 2: was two hundred five hundred years ago, how do you

634
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:02,240
Speaker 2: just dig down far enough to have his stable ceiling

635
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 2: underneath you right where if anyone, like let's say an

636
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 2: invading army is coming through, how do you make sure

637
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 2: the ceiling above you is going to be safe? How

638
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 2: do you make sure there's enough room to live down there?

639
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 2: And the people whoever was that actually built, Darren Coou,

640
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 2: they figured out that they need to make very small

641
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 2: tunnels where you would have to actually like hunch over

642
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 2: to get through the tunnels, so that anybody who was

643
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 2: trying to invade and come through would have to be

644
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 2: in that posture as they're going through, so you, as

645
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:36,359
Speaker 2: a defending army could say, uh, you got speared son.

646
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 3: Anyway, just thought that was an interesting tidbit.

647
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 2: All right, that's it for this segment on Ralph. Thank

648
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 2: you so much Ralph for calling in with that information.

649
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 2: I've got one letter from home, guys. You want to

650
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 2: hear that really quickly? Yeah, okay, here we go. This

651
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 2: comes from an anonymous SO and so.

652
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, I just wanted you to check out this

653
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 1: Tubbaca impression.

654
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 5: All right, I have a great day.

655
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:07,800
Speaker 3: I was very good.

656
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,280
Speaker 5: Oh man, you guys. I posted this on Instagram yesterday.

657
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 5: But I saw a guy I think it was sort

658
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 5: of famous or with viral, a dude doing an impression

659
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 5: of a Kerragg machine, and it was just the best

660
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,760
Speaker 5: impression that I've ever heard, next to this guy's impression

661
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 5: of Chewbacca.

662
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 3: Excellent.

663
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 2: All right, we will say goodbye and we will be

664
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 2: back with more messages from you.

665
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 4: And we have returned. I had a tough time this

666
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 4: evening going through some correspondence, but thought this would be

667
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 4: apropos to many of us listening along at home. Wherever

668
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 4: we find ourselves in this wide world, on the surface,

669
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 4: in the skies or beneath the ground, Geist is coming in.

670
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 4: Hot Geist says hi.

671
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 1: Guys.

672
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 4: You can refer to me as Geist. Done bro, longtime listener,

673
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 4: first time mailer from Germany, love your work. Just finished

674
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 4: your recent listener mail about your little detour on digital

675
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 4: price tags. Let's call them ETags and flexible pricing. I

676
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,240
Speaker 4: am no whistleblower and have no leaked documents to share,

677
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 4: but what I do have are a very particular set

678
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 4: of skills, skills I have acquired for a very long

679
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 4: career as an IT project and portal to manager in

680
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 4: nearly every industry. We'll cut the voice there out of

681
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 4: respect for you, guys, guys Sean Connery, I like, guys. Yeah,

682
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 4: We're multiverse in it, guys, says I often find myself

683
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 4: in the realms of CRM and customer loyalty. Yes, points, cards, badges. No,

684
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 4: that is not everything there is to know about it, guys, continues.

685
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 4: In Germany, flexible pricing is not immediately illegal, but it

686
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 4: is considered so improper that, with the exception of a

687
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 4: few pilot projects, it is hardly applied in practice, although

688
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 4: some large retail chains have had the infrastructure for it

689
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 4: for years, the ETags are only used for central price control.

690
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 4: Now I'm gonna pause here, guys, I don't want a monologue.

691
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 4: Can we give like a quick and dirty on flex

692
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 4: or surge pricing? I thought we had really good discourse

693
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:22,919
Speaker 4: about this earlier, for sure, and we.

694
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 5: Made a couple of fun videos about it. I mean,

695
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 5: it's just the idea that things can be much like

696
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 5: airline tickets or concert tickets or whatever, like, demand can

697
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,439
Speaker 5: in real time affect the price of things, which I've

698
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 5: always come down the side of that kind of doesn't

699
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:40,320
Speaker 5: not make sense.

700
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:41,800
Speaker 3: That's a double negative.

701
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 5: It kind of makes sense to me to a degree,

702
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 5: but I know it can also be gamed and taking advantage.

703
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 2: Of the best way to see it in action is

704
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 2: to attempt to take a car writing service or a

705
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 2: car share service at certain times of day, Like the

706
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 2: same trip will cost you vastly different prices depending on

707
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 2: time it is.

708
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 4: And as I mentioned I think previously, you can case

709
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 4: test this. If you'd like to do a little experiment

710
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 4: at home, you can take here in the West. You

711
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 4: can take the two most prominent ride share apps, those

712
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 4: being lifted Uber, and you can open them, open them both,

713
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 4: put in the same trip, and then close them and

714
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 4: then reopen them. And sometimes you'll see not a big difference,

715
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 4: but you will see an adjustment as they're attempting to

716
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 4: scope out how much you will pay.

717
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 3: For a given ride.

718
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 4: And you can see this regardless of the time of

719
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:37,240
Speaker 4: day pretty often.

720
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 5: And in that we also know I think I've maybe

721
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 5: mentioned someone has mentioned that, you know, they'll often be

722
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 5: a wight and save option that you know says, oh

723
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 5: it'll take up to fifteen minutes extra or whatever, but

724
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 5: it'll cost like five dollars less. I swear I've never

725
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 5: had a situation where I picked that option and the

726
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 5: card didn't come just as fast as the regular one.

727
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 3: So we know there's.

728
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 5: Multiple ways of them gaming, tricking you into thinking you're

729
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 5: getting a deal in a way that benefits them logistically.

730
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 5: It's yeah, you're right, man, it is the perfect way, serge.

731
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 5: I mean that term really honestly has become kind of

732
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:12,800
Speaker 5: one of those.

733
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 3: Eponyms I guess is that the right term bend.

734
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 5: Like for like like that as people think of that

735
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 5: where and they think of search pricing, car car service.

736
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, I see what you're saying. Yeah, you can also,

737
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 4: for instance, to your example, Noel, you can see things

738
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 4: like paying a premium for priority delivery in food delivery

739
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 4: services and it does not arguably does not change the

740
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 4: actual order of operations other than costing you about five

741
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 4: extra bucks. This is brand new ground for a lot

742
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:47,879
Speaker 4: of people. But as Geist will go on to prove

743
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 4: to us this evening, a ton of work went into

744
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 4: this before the public knew what was going on. So

745
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 4: back to Geist, Geist says, the holy grail of retail,

746
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 4: not just in Germany, I suppose, is not flexible pricing

747
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 4: to get this individual pricing at the customer level. Although

748
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 4: technically possible with a combination of E tags in FC

749
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 4: and or fencing, these are kind of we'll get in

750
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 4: the weeds on this maybe in an episode in the future.

751
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 4: These are a little bit, you know, they're kind of

752
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:26,320
Speaker 4: like the spell language of the it guys in Geist's profession.

753
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 4: But Guy says, with a combination of various things, a

754
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 4: different approach can be taken here. Moreover, at least in Germany,

755
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 4: this would face immense civilian resistance, but thank you for this, Guist.

756
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:43,240
Speaker 4: Here's where it gets crazy. I've been involved in lots

757
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 4: and lots of projects with almost every major grocery retailer

758
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 4: in Germany and have developed loyalty programs that reward customers

759
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 4: based on their behavior and history at the item level. Right,

760
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 4: how often do you buy cheese its or kinderregs? And

761
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 4: when these rewards consist of coupons via indirect methods like

762
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 4: points and badges and so on, coupons for specific items

763
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 4: completely tailored to the individual customer. There's no compulsion to

764
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 4: use the program yet, but usually the incentives are so

765
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 4: substantial that one really believes the illusion that it's worth it,

766
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 4: which calls to mind. Pausing here calls to mind our

767
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:29,320
Speaker 4: earlier conversation about the rollout of the UH the loyalty

768
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 4: cards here at US grocery stores. Do you have a

769
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 4: Proger card? If you don't, you're paying a tax for

770
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 4: not having one.

771
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, but the tax, the illusion of savings is just

772
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 5: not paying the tax, right like it's and they're getting

773
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 5: your data, They're knowing exactly what you're getting. You do

774
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 5: tend to have access to some nice coupons.

775
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 4: I suppose, what does this guy need with so much

776
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 4: garlic at three am?

777
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, but but it is a weird thing to think

778
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 2: you are going to buy flower or somewhere. So if

779
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 2: you don't buy flower at the place where you have

780
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 2: some kind of loyalty program, then you're gonna buy it

781
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 2: at a place that just has some flour at whatever

782
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 2: price it is that they sell it for. And then

783
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 2: what goes into that company's idea of how much that

784
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 2: flower should cost outside of the standard stuff that everybody's

785
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 2: looking at.

786
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 3: That is interesting.

787
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 2: They just this concept that there's an illusion that it's

788
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 2: worth it. But in some way it's gonna be worth

789
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 2: it somewhere for someone, because you're gonna find the cheapest

790
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 2: replica of whatever. That type of flower you're looking for

791
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 2: is somewhere. It just depends on if it's at the

792
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 2: Loyalty place or not.

793
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,439
Speaker 4: It's the home here in the States. It's the home

794
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 4: of the pursuit of happiness. Why would the pursuit of

795
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 4: savings differ in any logical way? I agree with you, guys,

796
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,359
Speaker 4: Max Paul. Can we get a hand washing noise as

797
00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 4: we return to geist perfect there it is, guy says,

798
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 4: as a retailer, I can wash my hands of any

799
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 4: wrongdoing and say, of course Ben pays a different price

800
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,760
Speaker 4: for flower than Matt does. But this is not individual pricing.

801
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 4: It's solely due to the Loyalty app and its behavior.

802
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 4: We have no influence on that. The use of credit

803
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 4: score data is often hidden in the terms of service

804
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 4: of these programs. To our earlier note about Google Search

805
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 4: and Gmail, So even in the privacy conscious Europe. It

806
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 4: is possible to extract more money from people in less

807
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 4: highly rated areas, for example, by specifically reducing non essential

808
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 4: products as a purchase incentive while keeping flower prices the

809
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:45,359
Speaker 4: same because they have to buy the flower anyway. And

810
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:49,280
Speaker 4: guy says, they tested the software, we implement it, says Geist.

811
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 4: We made purchases based on several test accounts, and we're

812
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 4: able to generate a range of twenty euros with the

813
00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 4: same shopping cart on the same day with a shopping

814
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 4: cart total of fifty euros. So when they say generate

815
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 4: a range, they mean they were able to make people

816
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 4: pay twenty dollars more and just sneaking it in. And

817
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 4: then you know it says we can, and then goes

818
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:18,879
Speaker 4: on to say you can add pretty graphics, gambling mechanics right,

819
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 4: gamify it, loot boxes, skinner boxing, behavioralism stuff, financing models. Remember,

820
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 4: says guys, we're talking about groceries, and voila, the shopping

821
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 4: dystopia is complete. Anyone who thought I don't chop online

822
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 4: because I get exploited or lied to should consider that

823
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 4: retail might be slower, maybe less technically adept, but it

824
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 4: loves money just as much as Amazon and Co. And

825
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 4: will do anything to survive poor geist. You have met

826
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:53,240
Speaker 4: more than once an ethical crossroads. It sounds like, because

827
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 4: you say, I still work in this industry and try

828
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 4: to bring more ethical solutions to the table. In the end, however,

829
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 4: we always end up in I love this part, dark

830
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 4: conference rooms with long robes, whispery about individual pricing.

831
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 5: Why they always be whispering like that, because it's a

832
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:12,359
Speaker 5: crazy up.

833
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,359
Speaker 4: It's a crazy idea we can't hear.

834
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 2: Well, especially in Europe, where as Guys is saying, if

835
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 2: you try to enact some of this stuff, you'd go

836
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 2: you'd hit right up against the privacy laws, right, so

837
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 2: you gotta whisper it.

838
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:30,439
Speaker 4: So there's also I mean, it is a frightening dystopian thing.

839
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 3: You know.

840
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 4: Imagine a world wherein you go to the same grocery

841
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 4: store as other people in your neighborhood, but due to

842
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 4: the data that has been collected about you, the price

843
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 4: of your case D or case D ingredients differs just

844
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 4: enough that you won't notice it, but you could get fleeced.

845
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:54,319
Speaker 5: I guess, and not the Devil's advocate. Not to say

846
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,240
Speaker 5: that I support this, I do understand, you know, gas

847
00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 5: prices shift based on the market, based on what them

848
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,359
Speaker 5: You know, people are always trying to get as much

849
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,840
Speaker 5: as they possibly can based on what the market will allow,

850
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 5: what consumers are willing to pay.

851
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 3: How is that any different than than.

852
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 5: Uber knowing where you are and that you're trying to

853
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:15,319
Speaker 5: go to the airport and that it might be more

854
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 5: important for you to get there quickly and overcharging you that.

855
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,359
Speaker 5: How is this different than that in terms of ethics?

856
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 4: Oh, ethically, I think we have to bracket the ethics

857
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 4: at this pin fair look at efficacy. The next time

858
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 4: you guys are on the road with me, Let's play

859
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 4: a game, not a saw a reference. Let's open up

860
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 4: our phones, let's pull up the same ride share app,

861
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 4: and let's see what prices which. Because I believe this

862
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 4: is already occurring.

863
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 3: I heard something really neat the other day.

864
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 5: The CEO of Arizona Iced tea yes and made a

865
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:51,400
Speaker 5: big deal saying it's God always be ninety nine cents

866
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:55,240
Speaker 5: or this giant Honkin forty ounce malt liquor size can

867
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 5: of you know, sweet tea product. And since he came

868
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 5: out and said that, people have been kind of watchdogging

869
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 5: Arizona Iced tea at stores and and calling out stores

870
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 5: that overcharge for Arizona iced tea, and if you.

871
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 4: Report it to the company, they will stop supplying that store.

872
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,280
Speaker 4: They're very militant about it, which I applaud.

873
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,879
Speaker 5: I think that's super cool. But like, I can't think

874
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 5: of any other examples of that. And and at a

875
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 5: certain point, is it just the prerogative of the distributor

876
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,240
Speaker 5: and or the retailer to decide what the price should

877
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 5: be or what their market will allow, like does does

878
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,880
Speaker 5: the does the manufacturer never enter into it? Like I know,

879
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 5: it's it's different with cars. You know, there's like there's

880
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:41,399
Speaker 5: like list prices and you know certain products there's list

881
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:43,759
Speaker 5: prices that are set and you can discount it up

882
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 5: to a certain point, but how deep you go with

883
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 5: that discount You do have some wiggle room. But I

884
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,279
Speaker 5: just wonder, you know, who's who's who's driving the ship,

885
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:53,399
Speaker 5: who's steering the ship here?

886
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 4: Well my answer would be no one, But perhaps that's

887
00:48:56,600 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 4: a little bit nihilistic. The you're you're right right, It

888
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:05,919
Speaker 4: differs industry by industry to end Geist correspondence here, which

889
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 4: again geist eye opening and thank you guy says I'd

890
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 4: love to hear your opinion the American perspective on this

891
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 4: topic and leaves us with some breadcrumbs. We're gonna follow

892
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:21,800
Speaker 4: up to your question this idea of determining price. Another

893
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 4: comparison would be the famous hot dog of Costco.

894
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 5: It's a loss leader, but it has a benefit in

895
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:33,959
Speaker 5: optics and just you know, getting butts through the door.

896
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,839
Speaker 5: You know, it's or whatever. There has to be some

897
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,759
Speaker 5: calculation there. But they will always lose money on that,

898
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 5: but they gain and it's a good pr story, right,

899
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 5: I mean, yeah.

900
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 4: There are other examples or areas of opportunity for this

901
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 4: kind of thing. Right. The majority of movie theaters make

902
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 4: their money off of not the movies they show or

903
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 4: the films they show, but through the concessions. And just

904
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:01,840
Speaker 4: like with you know, hot dogs have a very high

905
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 4: profit margin if you do it correctly, so you can

906
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 4: take an l on hot dogs. Popcorn has a cartoonish

907
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 4: profit margin and it kept a lot of those theater

908
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 4: companies afloat, so we can we can see the game

909
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 4: writ large. And I'm wondering too to hear from you

910
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 4: guys before we get to a letter from home that

911
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 4: we always like to end with. Do you guys see

912
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 4: this as inevitable in some form, or is this going

913
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:32,719
Speaker 4: to be like an NFT thing that gets rejected full disclosure.

914
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 4: I'm kind of on the side of this sort of

915
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 4: customer specified or targeted pricing. I'm kind of on the

916
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:41,760
Speaker 4: side of it being inevitable at this point.

917
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 2: I don't know. I can see it working in conjunction

918
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:48,760
Speaker 2: with a lot of other things, and it does feel

919
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:51,800
Speaker 2: like it is going to be that way, just based

920
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 2: on again, if I think right now specifically about how

921
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 2: much Kroger knows about me since I've been buying from them,

922
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 2: that's the that's a grocery restore here where we live,

923
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:02,399
Speaker 2: and then it's a lot of place.

924
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's in that same number for twenty years.

925
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 2: Easily, easily, and they know exactly what I buy, when

926
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:10,839
Speaker 2: I buy it, and how much of it I buy,

927
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 2: and it's all that's probably already factored in if I

928
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:16,359
Speaker 2: was using their app, because I know in their app

929
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:18,919
Speaker 2: they do the thing that Geist is talking about where

930
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:22,879
Speaker 2: they offer specific coupons to individuals, right, so I think

931
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 2: they are already trying to do that thing he's talking about.

932
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 2: I'm not buying into that yet, So I think if

933
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 2: there's enough customer buy in, then that's going to exist

934
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 2: because otherwise, right now, how are you going to walk

935
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 2: into a Kroger, And let's say the three of us

936
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:42,800
Speaker 2: walk past the same cereal aisle and raisin brand costs

937
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 2: three different prices when we walk past it, right.

938
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 3: Do you think?

939
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,760
Speaker 2: I mean, that's possible if you've got those electronic price

940
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:52,720
Speaker 2: tags on everything and you just as you walk past,

941
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 2: oh it's now three seventeen versus three twenty six or

942
00:51:56,640 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 2: something like that. I mean maybe, but I don't see

943
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 2: how you do that unless it's a fully online experience

944
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 2: where when you go to check out with your specific

945
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,839
Speaker 2: loyalty number and your credit card that's associated with your

946
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 2: credit score, then you could achieve it.

947
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,320
Speaker 4: So you don't see it as inevitable at this point.

948
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:20,320
Speaker 2: I don't see it inevitable inside a brick and mortar store,

949
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 2: So as long as those exist, I don't think you

950
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 2: can have this type of thing. But if everybody, the

951
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 2: vast majority of people, are ordering all of their products online,

952
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 2: then I think it's an easy yes, because then all

953
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:36,840
Speaker 2: your stuff is in one warehouse that's getting sorted by robots,

954
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 2: that gets shipped to your house.

955
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:41,319
Speaker 4: We could also consider, and I appreciate that point. We

956
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:48,240
Speaker 4: could also consider the idea that increasing facial recognition technology

957
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 4: is going to scale and become much more affordable for

958
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 4: a lot of institutions, a lot of private institutions, even

959
00:52:56,360 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 4: unto the grocery stores, meaning that there is a possibility

960
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 4: of the world I to me the idea that this

961
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 4: is inevitable. I agree that it will roll out or

962
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 4: already exist online right shout out Amazon groceries, but the

963
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:14,879
Speaker 4: idea of it going to brick and mortar is definitely

964
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 4: on the table.

965
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:16,400
Speaker 3: In my opinion.

966
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:18,320
Speaker 5: It makes me think of, like, you know, the whole

967
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:22,400
Speaker 5: homogenization of culture that comes along with these algorithms that

968
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 5: we don't really have a say in which ones we're using.

969
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:28,680
Speaker 5: We're all kind of being driven with, you know, what's

970
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 5: being presented to us by these algorithms in terms of

971
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 5: the content we're consuming. I'm kind of wondering if there's

972
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 5: an associated homogenization of like product choices and you know,

973
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 5: food items and grocery habits that are very similarly linked

974
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:46,840
Speaker 5: up to something like that one percent.

975
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:52,240
Speaker 4: So Here in the American South, for instance, people become

976
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 4: loyal to a certain brick and mortar grocery store because

977
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:59,799
Speaker 4: it has things they can predict it supply. Right, So

978
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 4: if you've gone to, for example, uh Kroger's for many years,

979
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:06,840
Speaker 4: when you walk into a Trader Joe's, a Whole Foods,

980
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 4: or a Publix or a we still have the Pigley

981
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 4: Wiggly now Morland if you walk into Yeah, if you

982
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:15,759
Speaker 4: walk into one of those, you're going to find that

983
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 4: they satisfy the general miligew of customer needs. But they

984
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:24,799
Speaker 4: do it through different brands because they may have agreements

985
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:28,360
Speaker 4: with different suppliers or different facets of Unilever, I should

986
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:29,440
Speaker 4: say at this point.

987
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:32,359
Speaker 5: Whereas a Trader Joe's visit might be sort of like

988
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 5: a treat, you know, because you stock up on some

989
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 5: specialty fun items.

990
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 3: You know.

991
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:40,280
Speaker 5: I don't use it Trader Joe's as my regular shop,

992
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:42,319
Speaker 5: but boy, when I go there do I have a

993
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 5: good old time.

994
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 3: And there was also one right next to the movie theater.

995
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:46,959
Speaker 5: We like to go to, so it's a great place

996
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,800
Speaker 5: to sneak in some sneaky movie theater snacks.

997
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

998
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 2: I think we mentioned this before, but a huge organization

999
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 2: like Trader Joe's at this point is a massive corporation,

1000
00:54:58,200 --> 00:54:58,880
Speaker 2: uh crow.

1001
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:01,759
Speaker 3: Masquerading as A and pop kind of right, it be.

1002
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 2: Funny, But they just bought Albertson's Kroger Did they just

1003
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 2: merge with them? So they're all it's homogenizing the way

1004
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:10,839
Speaker 2: you're talking about with the manufacturers of the food as well, right,

1005
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 2: So it I don't know. Yeah, the more I think

1006
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 2: about it, I'm leaning towards the way you're thinking, Ben,

1007
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 2: that you could do it at the store.

1008
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 3: You could.

1009
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 2: This is all happening already, it's in. It's everything they

1010
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:26,800
Speaker 2: needs in place. You just currently do it through an app,

1011
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 2: and that's how you control the price.

1012
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 4: The conspiracy is real. Please don't ever forget This stuff

1013
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 4: goes deeper than the government's debt whatever. We're going to

1014
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:38,760
Speaker 4: end one of my favorite things for listener mails letters

1015
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:43,799
Speaker 4: from home. So just some nice, nice vibes some how

1016
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:47,279
Speaker 4: you doing how your folks, and we'll give you this one.

1017
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 4: Allow conspiracy realist. What's a good nickname that starts with

1018
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 4: an L? Like a cool nickname that starts with.

1019
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 3: The letter L.

1020
00:55:56,640 --> 00:56:01,760
Speaker 4: Lavender La Loo Lavender Law writes in to say, hey, guys,

1021
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:03,759
Speaker 4: I'm just writing in because I know you love these

1022
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 4: lottery style, odds games. But when I choose to listen

1023
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:08,520
Speaker 4: to the new stuff, they don't want you to know

1024
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:11,439
Speaker 4: episode or my current audio book. I didn't think it'd

1025
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:12,560
Speaker 4: be a notable choice.

1026
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 3: I was wrong.

1027
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:16,360
Speaker 4: You mentioned in the podcast that Mandate for Leadership the

1028
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 4: Conservative Promise was about as long as the unabridged version

1029
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:22,799
Speaker 4: of the Stand, And he guessed what my current audiobook is.

1030
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 4: You guessed it the uncut version of The Stand. It's

1031
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 4: a nearly forty eight hour listen.

1032
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 5: So that came up when we were talking about Project

1033
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 5: twenty twenty five. That's my buddy Harry. He was visiting

1034
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:37,320
Speaker 5: and he has read the on it. It's a little shorter.

1035
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:39,879
Speaker 5: I think the Project twenty twenty five is a little

1036
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 5: bit shorter than this, isn't it weird?

1037
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:43,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, you get to like page one thousand and you think,

1038
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:49,800
Speaker 4: oh man, So for the Stand, and Lavender Lolo says,

1039
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:52,359
Speaker 4: this is my second time listening to it, and since

1040
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:55,120
Speaker 4: you drew the parallel, I'm wondering if The Stand would

1041
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 4: be an even better bible to base our next president's

1042
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:01,880
Speaker 4: office off of the current state of affairs. It seems

1043
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 4: fitting to me, and then continues, we're going through some

1044
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:10,800
Speaker 4: of this. To paraphrase Lavender says, anyways, not account of taste,

1045
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:13,439
Speaker 4: but you guys always seem to catch my attention. Thanks

1046
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 4: for the endless stream of fantastic topics. I've been listening

1047
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 4: for beat Me Here, Max and Paul Holy eight years

1048
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 4: beat Me Again. I'm old.

1049
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 3: I did originally feel right.

1050
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 4: I did originally run back all your episodes in the

1051
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 4: first three years or so, so I'm mostly up to date.

1052
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 4: Huge fan of Ridiculous History too. I was actually a

1053
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:37,200
Speaker 4: listener there first. This is the heartwarming part. This is

1054
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 4: why we do letters from home. Thanks for being something

1055
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 4: I can be proud of in my city that I

1056
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 4: was born and live in. People who live in Atlanta,

1057
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 4: and my opinion, truly have earned their title at alien

1058
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 4: as they are most likely not from here. I really

1059
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 4: do feel down about my hometown as I don't feel

1060
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 4: like it's home anymore. It's changed so much. I don't

1061
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 4: know if it's because I'm old and crotchety, but I

1062
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 4: remember my Atlanta being a better place back in the day. Anyway,

1063
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:06,160
Speaker 4: I got way off topic. I just wanted to express

1064
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 4: why I value such a positive influence in you guys

1065
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 4: with seriously good values. And conversation skills like our boys

1066
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 4: in the military. I'll throw this against the wall. I'd

1067
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 4: love to buy everybody some wings at the local to

1068
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:21,120
Speaker 4: say thanks. Hit me up if you want otherwise, keep

1069
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 4: on keeping on, homies.

1070
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:25,440
Speaker 3: Oh we must what a sweet What a nice thing

1071
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 3: to say, Lavender.

1072
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 4: Oh man, I hope you liked the nickname man, Thank

1073
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:32,480
Speaker 4: you so much. Go to to actionable out there. But

1074
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 4: I think it's it's a vibe we can all agree

1075
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:37,160
Speaker 4: with and in the spirit.

1076
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 3: Had local wings and ages.

1077
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:42,439
Speaker 4: I would love they're doing new sauces. No way, yeah, yes,

1078
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:42,800
Speaker 4: way too.

1079
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 2: Don't get me anything, but that's so on dry Tomato,

1080
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 2: get out of town.

1081
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:48,720
Speaker 3: I like that soundred tomato. I like that lemon pepper wet.

1082
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 4: They're messing with the ghost peppers.

1083
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 3: Matt what okay, can get so you could? Yeah?

1084
00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:00,440
Speaker 4: So we're ending on a cliffhanger here, big, big thanks

1085
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 4: to everybody who took the time to tune in. Thanks

1086
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 4: you guys, thanks to Lavender, to Ralph Anonymous, Chebaka, thanks

1087
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:11,040
Speaker 4: to Flash, and thanks to you folks. We hope you

1088
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Speaker 4: join us for future explorations of weird Rain. Future explorations.

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Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, we got all sorts of stuff Skyjelly look.

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00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:21,320
Speaker 4: Just hit us up online. We try to be easy

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00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 4: to find there.

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00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 5: Sky Jelly also not a bad band name, or maybe

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00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:25,280
Speaker 5: a really bad band name.

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00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 3: I don't know. I can never tell. It's usually one

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Speaker 3: or the other.

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Speaker 5: We are conspiracy stuff on YouTube, or we have video

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00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:35,479
Speaker 5: content coming your way on the regular xfka Twitter as

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00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:37,880
Speaker 5: well as Facebook, or we have our Facebook groupeers where

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00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 5: it's crazy on Instagram and TikTok. You can find us

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00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 5: in the handle conspiracy the show.

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00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:44,880
Speaker 2: Put this number in your phone right now one eight

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00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 2: three three st d w y TK. When you listen

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00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 2: to an episode and you've got a cool idea, you've

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00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:53,720
Speaker 2: got something that you can relate to us from your

1105
00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 2: personal experience, call that number and tell us everything in

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00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 2: three minutes. Of course, when you do, you call in,

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01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 2: give yourself a nickname. Whatever it is.

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01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:03,160
Speaker 3: We don't care.

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01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:05,560
Speaker 2: We're just excited to hear it and let us know

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01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 2: if we can use your name and message on one

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01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 2: of these listener mail episodes. If you've got more to

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01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 2: say than can fit in a three minute voicemail, why

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01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 2: not instead send us a good old fashion email.

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Speaker 4: We are the entities that read every single email we get,

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01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:23,440
Speaker 4: and gratefully so actually following up on some more correspondents

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01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:25,480
Speaker 4: this evening. When you send us an email, we can

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01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 4: all read it, we can all respond. Just be aware.

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01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 4: Sometimes the void writes back conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

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Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production

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01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:58,600
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or whoever you listen to your favorite shows