1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:20,676 Speaker 1: Bushkin. I have a friend who lives in Brentwood, on 2 00:00:20,716 --> 00:00:23,356 Speaker 1: the west side of Los Angeles, between Beverly Hills and 3 00:00:23,396 --> 00:00:26,276 Speaker 1: Santa Monica. He is a little pool house in his 4 00:00:26,316 --> 00:00:29,236 Speaker 1: backyard and I stay there whenever I come to LA, 5 00:00:29,876 --> 00:00:32,356 Speaker 1: kind of like cato'kalon if your memory for O. J. 6 00:00:32,516 --> 00:00:39,236 Speaker 1: Simpson Esoterica goes back that far. Anyway, my friend's street 7 00:00:39,276 --> 00:00:42,596 Speaker 1: dead ends on San Vicente Boulevard, one of the central 8 00:00:42,676 --> 00:00:46,196 Speaker 1: east west corridors in LA. And on the other side 9 00:00:46,196 --> 00:00:50,156 Speaker 1: of San Vicente is this absolutely gorgeous golf course, one 10 00:00:50,196 --> 00:00:52,716 Speaker 1: of the many private country clubs that LA is famous for. 11 00:00:53,716 --> 00:00:56,916 Speaker 1: If you drive down Wilshire Boulevard into Beverly Hills, ten 12 00:00:56,956 --> 00:01:00,116 Speaker 1: minutes east of Brentwood, you go right past Los Angeles 13 00:01:00,116 --> 00:01:03,156 Speaker 1: Country Club, which costs maybe a quarter of a million 14 00:01:03,196 --> 00:01:06,196 Speaker 1: dollars just to join. That is, if they'll even consider 15 00:01:06,236 --> 00:01:11,876 Speaker 1: your application. There's bel Air Country Club just north of Ucla, 16 00:01:12,396 --> 00:01:14,916 Speaker 1: which might be the most beautiful golf course in the country, 17 00:01:15,596 --> 00:01:19,276 Speaker 1: Hillcrest offf Pico, Wilshire country Club in Hancock Park. I 18 00:01:19,316 --> 00:01:27,156 Speaker 1: could go on. They're everywhere, vast, gorgeous and private. The 19 00:01:27,196 --> 00:01:29,756 Speaker 1: one near my friend's house is called Brentwood country Club 20 00:01:29,996 --> 00:01:32,516 Speaker 1: and it has a tall chain link fence around it 21 00:01:32,796 --> 00:01:35,036 Speaker 1: which goes almost all the way out to the street, 22 00:01:35,276 --> 00:01:39,436 Speaker 1: leaving just this narrow, rocky dirt track. There's no sidewalk, 23 00:01:39,996 --> 00:01:41,796 Speaker 1: and since there aren't a lot of places to run 24 00:01:41,796 --> 00:01:44,836 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, tons of people run around the Brentwood 25 00:01:44,836 --> 00:01:52,996 Speaker 1: Country Club on that narrow dirt track. And there's one 26 00:01:53,036 --> 00:01:55,436 Speaker 1: thing that always bothers me every time I run that route. 27 00:01:56,316 --> 00:01:58,676 Speaker 1: Why do all the runners of West Los Angeles have 28 00:01:58,756 --> 00:02:02,196 Speaker 1: to squeeze into this narrow, rocky little track when there's 29 00:02:02,236 --> 00:02:05,116 Speaker 1: a huge, magnificent park just on the other side of 30 00:02:05,156 --> 00:02:11,516 Speaker 1: the fence. My name is Malcolm Gladwell, and you're listening 31 00:02:11,596 --> 00:02:16,516 Speaker 1: to Revisionist History, my podcast about things overlooked and misunderstood. 32 00:02:21,436 --> 00:02:25,836 Speaker 1: This episode is about the problem with golf. I hate 33 00:02:25,876 --> 00:02:29,756 Speaker 1: golf and hopefully by the end of this you'll hate 34 00:02:29,796 --> 00:02:39,796 Speaker 1: golf too. I'm standing here would Die day Zac, who 35 00:02:39,916 --> 00:02:44,996 Speaker 1: is a very successful landscape architect Santa Monica, and we're 36 00:02:45,036 --> 00:02:48,796 Speaker 1: on the corner of Sanma Sente and Berlin Game and 37 00:02:48,836 --> 00:02:53,236 Speaker 1: we're looking into the Brentwood Country Club and the first 38 00:02:53,236 --> 00:02:54,516 Speaker 1: thing I see is barbed wire. 39 00:02:55,156 --> 00:02:57,876 Speaker 2: Looks like a couple of layers of barbed wire. 40 00:02:58,276 --> 00:03:00,276 Speaker 1: This looks like it looks like the Berlin Wall. 41 00:03:00,636 --> 00:03:02,996 Speaker 2: It like they want us to get in there. 42 00:03:02,876 --> 00:03:04,476 Speaker 1: Are you what are we seeing? We're seeing this. Move 43 00:03:04,476 --> 00:03:07,476 Speaker 1: a little closer here. What's that stand up trees? Do 44 00:03:07,516 --> 00:03:08,276 Speaker 1: you know what those are? 45 00:03:09,436 --> 00:03:12,956 Speaker 2: That looks like silk oaks in the foreground? And then 46 00:03:13,236 --> 00:03:17,596 Speaker 2: I see a Sadris theodora, quite lovely. Lots of larger trees, 47 00:03:17,636 --> 00:03:20,836 Speaker 2: which are unusual in Los Angeles because there's so little 48 00:03:21,436 --> 00:03:26,556 Speaker 2: open space. Yeah, there's some piness. Canariensis looks like a 49 00:03:26,636 --> 00:03:27,676 Speaker 2: redwood in there. 50 00:03:28,276 --> 00:03:30,196 Speaker 1: I don't think Daezak has ever played a round of 51 00:03:30,196 --> 00:03:33,756 Speaker 1: golf in her life. That's exactly why I wanted her opinion. 52 00:03:34,276 --> 00:03:37,636 Speaker 1: I wanted someone objective to tell me what it would 53 00:03:37,636 --> 00:03:39,436 Speaker 1: take to turn this place into a park. 54 00:03:39,676 --> 00:03:41,876 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I would get rid of the 55 00:03:41,956 --> 00:03:42,836 Speaker 2: two layers. 56 00:03:42,556 --> 00:03:46,756 Speaker 1: Of bark wire. Were the whole Eastern European feel east, 57 00:03:46,836 --> 00:03:49,276 Speaker 1: Your German field would have to be corrected. 58 00:03:49,876 --> 00:03:53,556 Speaker 2: I mean that might be some people's bag, but it's 59 00:03:53,596 --> 00:03:54,636 Speaker 2: not very welcoming. 60 00:03:55,276 --> 00:03:59,876 Speaker 3: Yeah. 61 00:03:59,996 --> 00:04:03,116 Speaker 1: The typical golf course is two hundred acres, give or take. 62 00:04:03,516 --> 00:04:06,156 Speaker 1: That's a lot of land. You have to landscape. It, 63 00:04:06,396 --> 00:04:10,236 Speaker 1: mow it, drench it, and pesticides keep this sand traps perfect. 64 00:04:10,916 --> 00:04:13,316 Speaker 1: I read somewhere that when a fancy golf course rebuilds 65 00:04:13,316 --> 00:04:16,796 Speaker 1: its bunkers, it typically takes about three hundred and eighty 66 00:04:16,876 --> 00:04:21,556 Speaker 1: nine truckloads of sand three hundred and eighty nine just 67 00:04:21,596 --> 00:04:25,116 Speaker 1: to keep everything nice and white and fluffy. But at 68 00:04:25,156 --> 00:04:28,796 Speaker 1: the same time, because golf involves launching a potentially lethal 69 00:04:28,916 --> 00:04:33,356 Speaker 1: projectile at great speeds across enormous distances, you have to 70 00:04:33,396 --> 00:04:35,396 Speaker 1: severely limit the number of people on the course at 71 00:04:35,396 --> 00:04:39,236 Speaker 1: any one time. Typically, a good private course can handle 72 00:04:39,276 --> 00:04:42,236 Speaker 1: no more than seventy two golfers at once. So that's 73 00:04:42,236 --> 00:04:44,796 Speaker 1: one golfer per one hundred and twenty thousand, eight hundred 74 00:04:44,796 --> 00:04:48,236 Speaker 1: and thirty three square feet. Can you imagine if basketball 75 00:04:48,276 --> 00:04:51,436 Speaker 1: had the same population density as golf. I did the math. 76 00:04:52,036 --> 00:04:55,876 Speaker 1: If basketball was played according to the geographical requirements of golf, 77 00:04:56,196 --> 00:05:00,756 Speaker 1: a basketball court would be thirty acres. Picture that that 78 00:05:00,876 --> 00:05:08,996 Speaker 1: had to play on motorcycles. Okay, another fact about golf. 79 00:05:09,596 --> 00:05:13,556 Speaker 1: Rich people really really like it. They're obsessed with it 80 00:05:13,876 --> 00:05:15,876 Speaker 1: in a way that there just isn't any parallel for 81 00:05:15,956 --> 00:05:20,276 Speaker 1: ordinary people. Because serious golfers are super anal about their scores. 82 00:05:20,516 --> 00:05:24,356 Speaker 1: We can actually quantify their obsession in order to calculate 83 00:05:24,396 --> 00:05:27,636 Speaker 1: their handicap, basically how well they're playing relative to other 84 00:05:27,676 --> 00:05:30,236 Speaker 1: people at the country club. They all post their results 85 00:05:30,276 --> 00:05:33,476 Speaker 1: on a database maintained by the United States Golf Association. 86 00:05:34,036 --> 00:05:37,436 Speaker 1: So we have a record, and it's a gold mine. 87 00:05:37,476 --> 00:05:39,716 Speaker 4: To be able to calculate your handicap and track it 88 00:05:39,756 --> 00:05:43,196 Speaker 4: through time. You will log into the system either at 89 00:05:43,316 --> 00:05:45,436 Speaker 4: your course or on your home computer. 90 00:05:45,876 --> 00:05:48,756 Speaker 1: I'm talking to an economist at Miami University named Lee 91 00:05:48,836 --> 00:05:53,396 Speaker 1: bigger Staff. He's interested in the habits of top corporate executives. 92 00:05:53,996 --> 00:05:56,636 Speaker 1: If you have the corner office and a multimillion dollar 93 00:05:56,756 --> 00:05:59,756 Speaker 1: stock option and a golf stream five, does that make 94 00:05:59,796 --> 00:06:01,916 Speaker 1: you more or less likely to put in a hard 95 00:06:01,956 --> 00:06:06,316 Speaker 1: day's work. The USGA database is of serious professional interest 96 00:06:06,396 --> 00:06:07,516 Speaker 1: to a guy like bigger Staff. 97 00:06:07,836 --> 00:06:11,436 Speaker 4: And you input you played and what day you played on, 98 00:06:11,716 --> 00:06:14,716 Speaker 4: and what your score was, and you know, after a 99 00:06:14,716 --> 00:06:18,476 Speaker 4: certain number of rounds being played, the USGA will indicate 100 00:06:18,516 --> 00:06:21,436 Speaker 4: what your handicap is, your level of skill, which allows 101 00:06:21,436 --> 00:06:23,756 Speaker 4: you to compete against other golfers of different skill level 102 00:06:23,796 --> 00:06:25,316 Speaker 4: and kind of normalize against that. 103 00:06:25,716 --> 00:06:27,916 Speaker 1: You know, how you always hear that CEOs play a 104 00:06:27,956 --> 00:06:31,756 Speaker 1: lot of golf. Bigger Staff's insight is that the USGA 105 00:06:31,876 --> 00:06:35,116 Speaker 1: database allows us to know exactly how much they play. 106 00:06:35,756 --> 00:06:37,916 Speaker 1: All you need to do is cross reference that list 107 00:06:37,916 --> 00:06:40,676 Speaker 1: of scores with a list of the CEOs of America's 108 00:06:40,756 --> 00:06:44,276 Speaker 1: largest companies. So that's what he does. It takes forever, 109 00:06:44,356 --> 00:06:44,996 Speaker 1: by the way. 110 00:06:44,876 --> 00:06:47,316 Speaker 4: We started while as a PhD student, and so this 111 00:06:47,396 --> 00:06:49,996 Speaker 4: certainly was a multi month process. So it's not something 112 00:06:49,996 --> 00:06:51,556 Speaker 4: that nine issy want to repeat in the near term 113 00:06:51,556 --> 00:06:53,316 Speaker 4: just because it took a lot of collection time. 114 00:06:53,316 --> 00:06:56,316 Speaker 1: There, how can you not love this? Surely this is 115 00:06:56,316 --> 00:06:59,956 Speaker 1: why God invented graduate students. Bigger Staff begins with the 116 00:07:00,036 --> 00:07:02,996 Speaker 1: names of the heads the top fifteen hundred publicly held 117 00:07:02,996 --> 00:07:06,596 Speaker 1: companies in the US. Three hundred and sixty three of 118 00:07:06,636 --> 00:07:09,836 Speaker 1: those fifteen hundred turn out to be I'm so obsessed 119 00:07:09,876 --> 00:07:13,116 Speaker 1: with golf that they enter their scores into the USGA database. 120 00:07:13,316 --> 00:07:16,836 Speaker 4: What you're seeing, on average is, I think fifteen rounds 121 00:07:16,836 --> 00:07:19,236 Speaker 4: a year is kind of the average CEO is playing 122 00:07:19,276 --> 00:07:22,356 Speaker 4: that amount of golf. But it's a heavily skewed distribution, right, 123 00:07:22,356 --> 00:07:23,356 Speaker 4: So we have a lot of people that are playing 124 00:07:23,436 --> 00:07:27,156 Speaker 4: very little golf, and then we have a tail where 125 00:07:27,236 --> 00:07:29,876 Speaker 4: we're picking it up. The top quartile we're looking at, 126 00:07:29,916 --> 00:07:31,956 Speaker 4: which is twenty two or more rounds per year, And. 127 00:07:31,956 --> 00:07:33,956 Speaker 1: If you go to the top ten percent of Bigger 128 00:07:33,956 --> 00:07:37,876 Speaker 1: Staff sample, the CEOs are playing around at least thirty 129 00:07:37,916 --> 00:07:43,916 Speaker 1: seven times a year. A round of golf is a 130 00:07:43,916 --> 00:07:46,236 Speaker 1: good four four and a half hours, So if you 131 00:07:46,316 --> 00:07:49,076 Speaker 1: play thirty seven times a year, that's more than one 132 00:07:49,156 --> 00:07:52,396 Speaker 1: hundred and sixty hours on the course, the equivalent of 133 00:07:52,436 --> 00:07:56,036 Speaker 1: five and a half weeks of work. By the way, 134 00:07:56,236 --> 00:07:59,716 Speaker 1: these are understatements. They don't include the time spent driving 135 00:07:59,716 --> 00:08:02,996 Speaker 1: to the course, warming up, getting changed, having a drink. 136 00:08:03,436 --> 00:08:06,476 Speaker 1: Doesn't include the hours spent practicing shots on the putting 137 00:08:06,516 --> 00:08:08,836 Speaker 1: green or the driving range, or all the rounds you 138 00:08:08,916 --> 00:08:11,396 Speaker 1: play that you don't enter into the database, like if 139 00:08:11,396 --> 00:08:13,756 Speaker 1: you're only playing nine holes or playing a fun round, 140 00:08:14,156 --> 00:08:18,356 Speaker 1: so the real time is probably way higher. Bigger Staff 141 00:08:18,396 --> 00:08:20,476 Speaker 1: then goes on to show that the more golf of 142 00:08:20,596 --> 00:08:24,316 Speaker 1: CEO plays, the worse his firm does, and also that 143 00:08:24,356 --> 00:08:26,996 Speaker 1: the more golf of CEO plays, the more likely he 144 00:08:27,076 --> 00:08:30,196 Speaker 1: is to be fired. In other words, this isn't a 145 00:08:30,236 --> 00:08:34,796 Speaker 1: harmless habit, it's a dangerous habit. Remember the Wall Street 146 00:08:34,876 --> 00:08:38,556 Speaker 1: investment bank bear Stearns. They went bankrupt during the mortgage 147 00:08:38,596 --> 00:08:42,516 Speaker 1: crisis in July of two thousand and seven, Right when 148 00:08:42,556 --> 00:08:46,196 Speaker 1: the crisis was beginning. The CEO of bear Stearns would 149 00:08:46,236 --> 00:08:49,316 Speaker 1: often helicopter out from Wall Street on Friday afternoons to 150 00:08:49,356 --> 00:08:51,996 Speaker 1: his exclusive course in New Jersey to get a round 151 00:08:51,996 --> 00:08:55,916 Speaker 1: in before sunset. Even when his company was collapsing, he 152 00:08:55,956 --> 00:09:00,836 Speaker 1: couldn't stop playing golf. Out of President Donald Trump's first 153 00:09:00,876 --> 00:09:03,996 Speaker 1: four months in office, he visited his own golf courses 154 00:09:04,396 --> 00:09:08,076 Speaker 1: twenty five times. One week he played three times. You 155 00:09:08,116 --> 00:09:10,236 Speaker 1: would think he would be at the office learning how 156 00:09:10,236 --> 00:09:13,476 Speaker 1: to be president, reading intelligence briefings, drading the swamp. No, 157 00:09:13,636 --> 00:09:17,596 Speaker 1: he's golfing. It's an addiction, right, because the definition of 158 00:09:17,636 --> 00:09:21,116 Speaker 1: an addiction is a self destructive habit. Just think if 159 00:09:21,116 --> 00:09:23,876 Speaker 1: I said to you that an important employee of a 160 00:09:23,916 --> 00:09:27,556 Speaker 1: major organization made lifestyle choices that caused him to miss 161 00:09:27,676 --> 00:09:30,836 Speaker 1: enormous amounts of work, harm his performance, and put his 162 00:09:30,876 --> 00:09:34,276 Speaker 1: own career in jeopardy, you would say, WHOA, check that 163 00:09:34,316 --> 00:09:39,716 Speaker 1: guy into rehab. That's golf crack cocaine for rich white guys. 164 00:09:41,116 --> 00:09:44,276 Speaker 4: The highest in the sample one hundred and forty six 165 00:09:44,356 --> 00:09:47,156 Speaker 4: or one hundred and forty eight rounds recorded in a 166 00:09:47,196 --> 00:09:48,716 Speaker 4: single year, which I mean that at that point, that's 167 00:09:48,716 --> 00:09:51,076 Speaker 4: a tremendous amount of time spent on the golf course. 168 00:09:51,436 --> 00:09:53,996 Speaker 1: You thought I was engaging in hyperbole, didn't you that 169 00:09:54,036 --> 00:09:57,316 Speaker 1: I was using the word addiction metaphorically? One hundred and 170 00:09:57,316 --> 00:09:59,436 Speaker 1: forty eight rounds a year is a round of golf 171 00:09:59,556 --> 00:10:01,716 Speaker 1: every three days. 172 00:10:01,876 --> 00:10:03,516 Speaker 4: And that would be if it was kind of uniformly 173 00:10:03,516 --> 00:10:07,516 Speaker 4: distributed across the year. It's you know, GoF certainly has 174 00:10:07,556 --> 00:10:09,956 Speaker 4: a season where it's a little bit more dents in 175 00:10:10,036 --> 00:10:12,036 Speaker 4: terms of the summer versus the winner. 176 00:10:12,876 --> 00:10:16,596 Speaker 1: And you can't tell me what company it is. I 177 00:10:16,636 --> 00:10:17,996 Speaker 1: want to know what company it is. 178 00:10:18,676 --> 00:10:21,636 Speaker 4: Yeah, we're just with this data, given it somewhat sensitive, 179 00:10:23,236 --> 00:10:25,436 Speaker 4: we're unwilling to name out CEOs. 180 00:10:25,996 --> 00:10:28,276 Speaker 1: I can't believe you won't tell me. I mean, here, 181 00:10:28,316 --> 00:10:31,596 Speaker 1: we have an activity that is incredibly expensive, that is 182 00:10:31,756 --> 00:10:35,236 Speaker 1: organized in just about the most extravagant manner possible, and 183 00:10:35,316 --> 00:10:38,876 Speaker 1: at the same time, this expensive habit is incredibly addictive, 184 00:10:39,036 --> 00:10:41,236 Speaker 1: to the point that there's a chief executive out there 185 00:10:41,396 --> 00:10:45,196 Speaker 1: of a major American corporation who plays an average of 186 00:10:45,236 --> 00:10:47,756 Speaker 1: one hundred and forty eight rounds of golf a year 187 00:10:48,236 --> 00:10:51,556 Speaker 1: and is so completely unself conscious about that fact that 188 00:10:51,636 --> 00:10:54,476 Speaker 1: he posts all one hundred and forty eight rounds on 189 00:10:54,516 --> 00:10:58,276 Speaker 1: a public database where it can be analyzed by graduate students. 190 00:10:59,196 --> 00:11:01,556 Speaker 1: So what happens to rich white guys with a dangerous, 191 00:11:01,596 --> 00:11:05,236 Speaker 1: costly obsession. Do they burn through their life savings paying 192 00:11:05,276 --> 00:11:08,956 Speaker 1: for their addiction like ordinary addicts do? Please give them 193 00:11:08,956 --> 00:11:09,916 Speaker 1: a little more respect. 194 00:11:12,476 --> 00:11:14,836 Speaker 3: By the way, this is my fifteenth year in television. 195 00:11:14,876 --> 00:11:16,556 Speaker 5: Imagine that fifteen years of me. 196 00:11:18,676 --> 00:11:20,756 Speaker 1: The longest stomach test in the history of show. 197 00:11:20,756 --> 00:11:24,436 Speaker 3: Of everyone, you could argue, I would say in the 198 00:11:24,476 --> 00:11:26,916 Speaker 3: forties and fifties there was no one who was more 199 00:11:26,956 --> 00:11:29,196 Speaker 3: widely popular in America than Bob Hope. 200 00:11:29,316 --> 00:11:33,436 Speaker 1: I'm talking to Richard Saglan, Bob Hope's biographer. I think 201 00:11:33,436 --> 00:11:35,916 Speaker 1: Bob Hope has been a little forgotten in recent years, 202 00:11:36,196 --> 00:11:38,236 Speaker 1: but in his day he was huge. 203 00:11:38,756 --> 00:11:41,996 Speaker 3: Every late night comedian who does a stand up monologue 204 00:11:41,996 --> 00:11:44,356 Speaker 3: at the beginning of the show owes a debt to 205 00:11:44,396 --> 00:11:46,676 Speaker 3: Bob Hope because he kind of invented that thing, a 206 00:11:46,756 --> 00:11:49,596 Speaker 3: stand up comedy monologue that sort of took note of 207 00:11:49,596 --> 00:11:51,556 Speaker 3: what was going on in the world, what was going 208 00:11:51,596 --> 00:11:54,596 Speaker 3: on in Hollywood, what was going on everywhere, and he 209 00:11:54,716 --> 00:11:57,956 Speaker 3: was just the voice of America. I think for a 210 00:11:57,956 --> 00:11:58,516 Speaker 3: long time. 211 00:11:59,516 --> 00:12:01,636 Speaker 1: Bob Hope is a crucial part of the story of 212 00:12:01,636 --> 00:12:05,356 Speaker 1: golf in America, although I'm warning you things are going 213 00:12:05,396 --> 00:12:08,236 Speaker 1: to get a little complicated, which is sort of the point, 214 00:12:08,316 --> 00:12:10,156 Speaker 1: because you don't get to run the world for as 215 00:12:10,196 --> 00:12:13,196 Speaker 1: long as rich white guys have without being pretty wily, 216 00:12:13,916 --> 00:12:16,876 Speaker 1: and some of their best and wiliest work has been 217 00:12:16,916 --> 00:12:22,076 Speaker 1: on the golf course. So there's a principal and property 218 00:12:22,116 --> 00:12:25,156 Speaker 1: tax law called highest and best use, which is that 219 00:12:25,196 --> 00:12:27,316 Speaker 1: one of the ways you figure out how much to 220 00:12:27,436 --> 00:12:30,276 Speaker 1: tax a piece of property is to estimate what its 221 00:12:30,316 --> 00:12:33,476 Speaker 1: best use might be. For example, if I have a 222 00:12:33,476 --> 00:12:36,196 Speaker 1: one acre plot and the fanciest part of Manhattan that 223 00:12:36,276 --> 00:12:38,596 Speaker 1: I used to grow vegetables, I can't say to the 224 00:12:38,636 --> 00:12:42,156 Speaker 1: city that land is worthless, it's just a vegetable garden. No, 225 00:12:42,716 --> 00:12:44,996 Speaker 1: the city's going to say we're going to value that 226 00:12:45,036 --> 00:12:47,276 Speaker 1: one acre and tax it as if it had an 227 00:12:47,276 --> 00:12:50,356 Speaker 1: apartment block on it, because that's the best use of 228 00:12:50,436 --> 00:12:53,596 Speaker 1: land in the fancy parts of Manhattan. Now, if you've 229 00:12:53,596 --> 00:12:55,636 Speaker 1: got a vast golf course in the middle of Beverly 230 00:12:55,716 --> 00:12:59,036 Speaker 1: Hills or Brentwood. Highest and best use makes you really 231 00:12:59,156 --> 00:13:02,916 Speaker 1: nervous because plainly, the highest and best use of land 232 00:13:02,956 --> 00:13:04,636 Speaker 1: in the middle of one of the most expensive and 233 00:13:04,676 --> 00:13:07,316 Speaker 1: densely populated cities in the world is not a private 234 00:13:07,356 --> 00:13:12,356 Speaker 1: golf course. So years ago, in nineteen sixty, California's country 235 00:13:12,356 --> 00:13:15,236 Speaker 1: clubs realize they have to act or they're going to 236 00:13:15,236 --> 00:13:19,076 Speaker 1: get taxed into oblivion. They get together and they propose 237 00:13:19,196 --> 00:13:23,196 Speaker 1: an amendment to the state constitution that permanently exempts them 238 00:13:23,396 --> 00:13:26,436 Speaker 1: from the highest and best use standard. They want their 239 00:13:26,516 --> 00:13:31,516 Speaker 1: vegetable garden to be taxed as a vegetable garden. If 240 00:13:31,556 --> 00:13:36,196 Speaker 1: you think about it, this is seriously audacious. Private golf 241 00:13:36,196 --> 00:13:40,716 Speaker 1: courses are these massive, opulent, gated playgrounds, and membership is 242 00:13:40,756 --> 00:13:44,076 Speaker 1: often restricted. In Los Angeles in nineteen sixty, a lot 243 00:13:44,076 --> 00:13:46,876 Speaker 1: of these clubs didn't let in Jews. They certainly didn't 244 00:13:46,916 --> 00:13:49,036 Speaker 1: let in black people except to work in the kitchen. 245 00:13:49,556 --> 00:13:54,356 Speaker 1: Yet they wanted a constitutional exemption to ordinary property taxes 246 00:13:54,556 --> 00:13:57,356 Speaker 1: like they were some kind of public amenity. How can 247 00:13:57,396 --> 00:14:01,356 Speaker 1: they argue this, They don't, not really. They just bring 248 00:14:01,396 --> 00:14:04,036 Speaker 1: in Bob Hope, who in addition to being the most 249 00:14:04,076 --> 00:14:08,956 Speaker 1: popular entertainer in America, is also an obsessive golfer. Obsessive 250 00:14:09,676 --> 00:14:10,156 Speaker 1: I might. 251 00:14:10,036 --> 00:14:10,876 Speaker 5: As well level with you. 252 00:14:10,916 --> 00:14:13,316 Speaker 6: I spent so much time in Sandtrap they sent me 253 00:14:13,356 --> 00:14:16,996 Speaker 6: citizenship papers from Saudi Arabia. Oh yeah, I love to 254 00:14:17,036 --> 00:14:17,676 Speaker 6: hear the whole. 255 00:14:17,836 --> 00:14:21,356 Speaker 1: Bob Hope once wrote an entire book just devoted to 256 00:14:21,436 --> 00:14:24,636 Speaker 1: his golf game, called Confessions of a Hooker, in which 257 00:14:24,676 --> 00:14:28,156 Speaker 1: he estimates that he had played on two thousand different 258 00:14:28,196 --> 00:14:30,276 Speaker 1: golf courses over the course of his life. 259 00:14:30,396 --> 00:14:34,076 Speaker 3: He belonged to the Lakeside Country Club in La near 260 00:14:34,156 --> 00:14:40,076 Speaker 3: where he lived a life of the prestigiousstigious. I think so. Yeah. 261 00:14:40,196 --> 00:14:42,436 Speaker 1: The genius at picking Bob Hope is the face of 262 00:14:42,436 --> 00:14:46,996 Speaker 1: California's country clubs is that his whole persona, his whole act, 263 00:14:47,276 --> 00:14:50,596 Speaker 1: was about being every man. He's self deprecating. Half his 264 00:14:50,716 --> 00:14:53,076 Speaker 1: jokes are about how he's not part of the inn group, 265 00:14:53,236 --> 00:14:55,396 Speaker 1: even though, of course there's no one more in than 266 00:14:55,436 --> 00:14:55,996 Speaker 1: Bob Hope. 267 00:14:56,116 --> 00:14:58,196 Speaker 6: Isn't this wonderful love being here in California? 268 00:14:58,236 --> 00:14:59,436 Speaker 2: I just love it. Look at that guy. 269 00:15:00,596 --> 00:15:02,036 Speaker 1: That's the only place in the world where you can 270 00:15:02,076 --> 00:15:03,356 Speaker 1: get four seasons in one day. 271 00:15:03,396 --> 00:15:05,716 Speaker 4: I want to tell you that this is. 272 00:15:05,996 --> 00:15:07,876 Speaker 6: We better hurry. We'll be able to be snowing before 273 00:15:07,916 --> 00:15:08,396 Speaker 6: the third hole. 274 00:15:09,476 --> 00:15:10,036 Speaker 2: Let's move on. 275 00:15:10,156 --> 00:15:13,236 Speaker 1: Oh boy, So how did the Bob Hope for Golf 276 00:15:13,276 --> 00:15:17,956 Speaker 1: campaign do in nineteen sixty It wins. The proposition passes 277 00:15:18,196 --> 00:15:21,116 Speaker 1: and is added to Article thirteen of the California Constitution, 278 00:15:21,516 --> 00:15:25,516 Speaker 1: where it remains to this day. In order to win 279 00:15:25,716 --> 00:15:28,276 Speaker 1: a set of privileges for the very wealthy, in other words, 280 00:15:28,636 --> 00:15:32,236 Speaker 1: California's country clubs turn to a man who symbolizes the 281 00:15:32,236 --> 00:15:35,756 Speaker 1: common man. I mean, when does it ever happen that 282 00:15:35,796 --> 00:15:38,676 Speaker 1: a TV celebrity wins a sweetheart deal for his rich 283 00:15:38,716 --> 00:15:41,516 Speaker 1: golf buddies by posing as a friend of the common man. 284 00:15:42,476 --> 00:15:50,476 Speaker 1: If you get my drift to give me back, just like, 285 00:15:50,796 --> 00:15:54,596 Speaker 1: totally understand Prop thirteen property has passed in nineteen seventy eight, 286 00:15:55,396 --> 00:16:01,476 Speaker 1: and what are the principal stipulations of the proposition. I'm 287 00:16:01,476 --> 00:16:03,756 Speaker 1: in a big conference room in the Los Angeles County 288 00:16:03,836 --> 00:16:07,756 Speaker 1: Municipal building, one of those beautiful nineteen thirties office buildings 289 00:16:07,756 --> 00:16:10,396 Speaker 1: that are all over downtown Las Ane Angels. There are 290 00:16:10,476 --> 00:16:12,676 Speaker 1: four people on the other side of the table. They're 291 00:16:12,716 --> 00:16:15,916 Speaker 1: from the La County tax Assessor's office. I'm on my 292 00:16:16,036 --> 00:16:18,996 Speaker 1: quest to figure out why Brentwood Country Club isn't just 293 00:16:19,036 --> 00:16:21,476 Speaker 1: a big park that I can go running through, and 294 00:16:21,516 --> 00:16:24,836 Speaker 1: I've decided to start the people who run the tax system. 295 00:16:25,116 --> 00:16:29,356 Speaker 1: These are serious folks, deliberate, thoughtful. They have promised to 296 00:16:29,396 --> 00:16:32,436 Speaker 1: help me. You'll have to guess what they really think. 297 00:16:34,116 --> 00:16:37,636 Speaker 5: The tax rate is set is one percent of the value, 298 00:16:37,876 --> 00:16:39,996 Speaker 5: as opposed to a variable rate, which it was before. 299 00:16:40,316 --> 00:16:43,556 Speaker 1: The man speaking is Brian Donnelly. He's talking about the 300 00:16:43,556 --> 00:16:47,916 Speaker 1: most famous amendment to the California Constitution, Proposition thirteen. 301 00:16:48,396 --> 00:16:52,236 Speaker 5: The properties only get reassessed with when there's a transfer 302 00:16:52,356 --> 00:16:56,156 Speaker 5: or a change of ownership, or there's new construction. Those 303 00:16:56,196 --> 00:16:57,796 Speaker 5: are the primary parts of it. 304 00:16:58,076 --> 00:17:00,836 Speaker 1: Here's what he's saying. If you own a house, every 305 00:17:00,836 --> 00:17:03,516 Speaker 1: one or two years, typically the value of your property 306 00:17:03,556 --> 00:17:05,836 Speaker 1: is reassessed by the city or county where you live. 307 00:17:06,556 --> 00:17:09,076 Speaker 1: So if your house doubles in value, the local government 308 00:17:09,196 --> 00:17:13,036 Speaker 1: will raise your taxes accordingly. That's the way property taxes work, 309 00:17:13,716 --> 00:17:18,276 Speaker 1: except in California. Proposition thirteen said that for tax purposes, 310 00:17:18,556 --> 00:17:21,476 Speaker 1: the value of any piece of property in California is 311 00:17:21,636 --> 00:17:25,476 Speaker 1: frozen at pre nineteen seventy eight levels, and the only 312 00:17:25,556 --> 00:17:28,756 Speaker 1: way that property can be reassessed at its real current 313 00:17:28,876 --> 00:17:32,116 Speaker 1: value is if the property is sold, or, to be 314 00:17:32,156 --> 00:17:35,796 Speaker 1: more specific, if ownership of more than fifty percent of 315 00:17:35,836 --> 00:17:40,196 Speaker 1: the property changes hands. In other words, California has two 316 00:17:40,276 --> 00:17:43,956 Speaker 1: kinds of taxpayers, the post nineteen seventy eight people who 317 00:17:43,996 --> 00:17:47,716 Speaker 1: pay normal property taxes, and the people lucky and old 318 00:17:47,836 --> 00:17:50,036 Speaker 1: enough to be living in the same house they owned 319 00:17:50,076 --> 00:17:53,276 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy eight, who pay a tiny fraction of 320 00:17:53,316 --> 00:17:54,036 Speaker 1: their fair share. 321 00:17:54,316 --> 00:17:56,876 Speaker 5: You know, I've got family members who've owned their house 322 00:17:56,916 --> 00:18:01,156 Speaker 5: in nineteen sixty nine and they're paying I think their 323 00:18:01,196 --> 00:18:04,356 Speaker 5: tax will value is about ninety thousand dollars or something 324 00:18:04,356 --> 00:18:06,516 Speaker 5: like that. The houses in that neighborhood sell for six hundred, 325 00:18:07,076 --> 00:18:11,396 Speaker 5: so they're paying a lot less than It's the properteen conundrum, 326 00:18:11,396 --> 00:18:12,836 Speaker 5: which I'm sure you've read about. 327 00:18:16,116 --> 00:18:20,796 Speaker 1: Please understand, this system is insane, totally crazy. I mean, 328 00:18:20,876 --> 00:18:23,076 Speaker 1: just think of all the reasons why someone might deserve 329 00:18:23,116 --> 00:18:26,156 Speaker 1: a big tax break. I mean, they're sick, they're poor, 330 00:18:26,756 --> 00:18:29,116 Speaker 1: they have tons of young kids, they've made a big 331 00:18:29,156 --> 00:18:32,236 Speaker 1: investment in their business. The state of California says, no, 332 00:18:33,076 --> 00:18:36,156 Speaker 1: we think the most deserving group are people whose property 333 00:18:36,156 --> 00:18:40,956 Speaker 1: hasn't changed hands in forty years. Okay, now imagine that 334 00:18:41,036 --> 00:18:44,636 Speaker 1: you're a private golf club. You did that spectacular bit 335 00:18:44,676 --> 00:18:47,436 Speaker 1: of jiu jitsu with Bob Hope in nineteen sixty, which 336 00:18:47,476 --> 00:18:50,676 Speaker 1: means that you don't pay real property taxes. Gift from 337 00:18:50,716 --> 00:18:55,636 Speaker 1: God number one. Then comes proposition thirteen, and you get 338 00:18:55,636 --> 00:19:00,116 Speaker 1: a second gift from God because proposition thirteen says that 339 00:19:00,156 --> 00:19:05,116 Speaker 1: those already artificially low property taxes are now frozen forever 340 00:19:05,276 --> 00:19:08,996 Speaker 1: at nineteen seventy eight levels, so long as your country 341 00:19:09,196 --> 00:19:12,756 Speaker 1: club does not change hands. And that last part is 342 00:19:12,836 --> 00:19:16,796 Speaker 1: crucial because if you have a change in ownership, then 343 00:19:16,876 --> 00:19:20,396 Speaker 1: you have to pay real property tax like every other 344 00:19:20,596 --> 00:19:24,156 Speaker 1: long suffering California taxpayer who hasn't been in one place 345 00:19:24,156 --> 00:19:28,716 Speaker 1: since nineteen seventy eight. So the country clubs of Los 346 00:19:28,756 --> 00:19:33,716 Speaker 1: Angeles all hang by a thread. They continue to exist 347 00:19:34,476 --> 00:19:37,916 Speaker 1: only so long as the tax system perceives that they 348 00:19:37,956 --> 00:19:42,756 Speaker 1: have not changed hands. And for years everyone assumes they 349 00:19:42,756 --> 00:19:47,276 Speaker 1: haven't changed hands. I mean Brentwood, LA country Club, Wiltshire. 350 00:19:47,596 --> 00:19:50,356 Speaker 1: All the major golf clubs were all founded before nineteen 351 00:19:50,396 --> 00:19:54,796 Speaker 1: seventy eight, but then a neighborhood newspaper called the Los 352 00:19:54,796 --> 00:20:00,396 Speaker 1: Angeles Garment and Citizen runs an article January sixteenth, twenty ten, 353 00:20:00,756 --> 00:20:05,076 Speaker 1: in which they say, wait a minute, most private country 354 00:20:05,076 --> 00:20:09,356 Speaker 1: clubs in Los Angeles have what's called equity ownership. They're 355 00:20:09,436 --> 00:20:12,436 Speaker 1: owned by their members. When you admit it, you get 356 00:20:12,436 --> 00:20:15,316 Speaker 1: a share. When you die or quit, someone else takes 357 00:20:15,316 --> 00:20:19,196 Speaker 1: your share. So over time, if enough members die or quit, 358 00:20:19,556 --> 00:20:23,276 Speaker 1: isn't that a change in ownership. That question was put 359 00:20:23,316 --> 00:20:25,796 Speaker 1: to Rick Auerbach, who was then the head of tax 360 00:20:25,796 --> 00:20:27,196 Speaker 1: assessment for La County. 361 00:20:27,476 --> 00:20:28,876 Speaker 5: I think the quote was kind of funny for me. 362 00:20:28,876 --> 00:20:31,916 Speaker 5: You said something about, let's see, on most issues we 363 00:20:31,916 --> 00:20:34,076 Speaker 5: haven't heard at least the question asked before. He said 364 00:20:34,116 --> 00:20:35,556 Speaker 5: he'd worked in the office thirty nine years, but this 365 00:20:35,636 --> 00:20:36,156 Speaker 5: was a new one. 366 00:20:36,356 --> 00:20:39,916 Speaker 1: So hour Back refers the question to the city's lawyers. 367 00:20:40,356 --> 00:20:42,636 Speaker 1: They put their best and brightest legal minds on it 368 00:20:42,916 --> 00:20:46,956 Speaker 1: for six months, and on June second, twenty ten, the 369 00:20:46,996 --> 00:20:51,476 Speaker 1: County's tax court issues a solemn, four page ruling. They conclude, 370 00:20:51,756 --> 00:20:56,636 Speaker 1: no country clubs haven't changed hands. If you're keeping track, 371 00:20:56,876 --> 00:20:59,596 Speaker 1: that's the third straight up gift from God that LA's 372 00:20:59,596 --> 00:21:01,996 Speaker 1: private country clubs have gotten in the last fifty years. 373 00:21:02,516 --> 00:21:05,236 Speaker 1: I was talking to someone who's a member of Bella 374 00:21:05,436 --> 00:21:08,916 Speaker 1: Country Clubs and I said, what percentage of the members 375 00:21:08,916 --> 00:21:12,396 Speaker 1: of bel Air today? We're members in seventy eight and 376 00:21:12,436 --> 00:21:16,156 Speaker 1: he said, you know, ten percent? So why isn't that 377 00:21:16,196 --> 00:21:17,156 Speaker 1: a change of ownership? 378 00:21:17,476 --> 00:21:19,476 Speaker 5: Right? If I haven't had a chance to dig through 379 00:21:19,516 --> 00:21:22,276 Speaker 5: this a whole lot since I got it out of 380 00:21:22,276 --> 00:21:24,436 Speaker 5: the file the other day. But they kind of get 381 00:21:24,436 --> 00:21:27,676 Speaker 5: into it. It's they're saying, if there's no one event 382 00:21:27,876 --> 00:21:31,156 Speaker 5: that is that is more than fifty percent of a transfer, 383 00:21:31,596 --> 00:21:34,396 Speaker 5: then it's not. Each of those little individual slices are 384 00:21:34,436 --> 00:21:36,076 Speaker 5: not a change of ownership on their own. 385 00:21:37,116 --> 00:21:44,596 Speaker 1: Did you find that argument plausible? Well, yeah, that's that's. 386 00:21:44,596 --> 00:21:46,036 Speaker 5: We were implementers of the law. 387 00:21:46,276 --> 00:21:46,396 Speaker 3: Right. 388 00:21:46,516 --> 00:21:50,796 Speaker 1: You don't have opinions? No, Well no, I could swear 389 00:21:50,956 --> 00:21:52,956 Speaker 1: as I looked across the table at Donnelly and his 390 00:21:53,036 --> 00:21:56,556 Speaker 1: cohorts that they were twitching like they desperately wanted to 391 00:21:56,556 --> 00:21:59,356 Speaker 1: say something but had to bite their tongue. You know 392 00:21:59,396 --> 00:22:03,836 Speaker 1: what it's like. You know that famous paradox I forgot 393 00:22:03,836 --> 00:22:06,716 Speaker 1: with the ship. Well, you the question is if you 394 00:22:06,836 --> 00:22:08,596 Speaker 1: change if you have a ship and you change a sex. 395 00:22:08,676 --> 00:22:11,636 Speaker 1: Some ancient think and you change one board at a time. 396 00:22:12,716 --> 00:22:14,516 Speaker 1: Is at the end of the day, is a ship different? 397 00:22:15,196 --> 00:22:18,516 Speaker 1: That's what this is. The thing I can't remember is 398 00:22:18,556 --> 00:22:22,076 Speaker 1: a ship of theseus? The famous thought experiment described by 399 00:22:22,076 --> 00:22:27,916 Speaker 1: the Greek philosopher Plutarch roughly two thousand years ago. Plutarch says, 400 00:22:28,356 --> 00:22:31,476 Speaker 1: imagine theseus is sailing on a ship, and one by 401 00:22:31,516 --> 00:22:34,196 Speaker 1: one he replaces every one of the original planks that 402 00:22:34,236 --> 00:22:37,156 Speaker 1: make up that ship with a new plank, until every 403 00:22:37,196 --> 00:22:40,516 Speaker 1: single piece of the ship is new. The question is, 404 00:22:40,716 --> 00:22:43,636 Speaker 1: when theseus reaches shore, is he sailing on the same 405 00:22:43,636 --> 00:22:46,196 Speaker 1: ship as he was when he left or a new ship. 406 00:22:47,076 --> 00:22:50,156 Speaker 1: One view says it's a new ship. This is called 407 00:22:50,156 --> 00:22:53,796 Speaker 1: the myriological theory of identity. The identity of something is 408 00:22:53,796 --> 00:22:57,236 Speaker 1: the sum of its component parts. Change the parts, you 409 00:22:57,356 --> 00:23:00,756 Speaker 1: change the thing. On the other side of the argument 410 00:23:00,916 --> 00:23:04,996 Speaker 1: is something called spatio temporal continuity theory, which says that 411 00:23:05,076 --> 00:23:08,796 Speaker 1: an object can maintain its identity so long as the 412 00:23:08,916 --> 00:23:12,156 Speaker 1: chain is gradual and the form or shape of the 413 00:23:12,196 --> 00:23:16,436 Speaker 1: object is preserved to the changes of its component materials. 414 00:23:17,396 --> 00:23:18,996 Speaker 1: I think you can see where I'm going with this. 415 00:23:20,076 --> 00:23:23,756 Speaker 1: The city's lawyers take a second view. So long as 416 00:23:23,756 --> 00:23:27,436 Speaker 1: a country club replaces its rich white guys gradually, and 417 00:23:27,516 --> 00:23:30,316 Speaker 1: so long as each new rich white guy preserves the 418 00:23:30,356 --> 00:23:33,196 Speaker 1: form and shape of the rich white guy he is replacing, 419 00:23:33,476 --> 00:23:36,156 Speaker 1: then the private golf clubs of today must have the 420 00:23:36,156 --> 00:23:39,996 Speaker 1: same existential status as the private golf courses of nineteen 421 00:23:40,036 --> 00:23:43,956 Speaker 1: seventy eight. Collections of rich white guys, from the standpoint 422 00:23:43,996 --> 00:23:48,836 Speaker 1: of the La County property tax system, possess spatio temporal continuity. 423 00:23:51,596 --> 00:23:54,116 Speaker 1: At this point I realized I was in way over 424 00:23:54,196 --> 00:23:57,156 Speaker 1: my head. Tax assessors were not going to be enough. 425 00:23:57,636 --> 00:24:01,636 Speaker 1: I needed an actual philosopher, so I called Mark Cohen 426 00:24:02,196 --> 00:24:05,156 Speaker 1: of the University of Washington to get to the bottom 427 00:24:05,156 --> 00:24:07,916 Speaker 1: of the question of whether large groups of rich white 428 00:24:07,916 --> 00:24:09,996 Speaker 1: people possess onto life logical permanence. 429 00:24:11,076 --> 00:24:16,636 Speaker 6: Here's an argument that favors the spaciotemporal continuity theory. The 430 00:24:16,716 --> 00:24:21,556 Speaker 6: idea that what makes the ship persist through time as 431 00:24:21,596 --> 00:24:25,396 Speaker 6: one and the same is that it moves smoothly through 432 00:24:25,436 --> 00:24:29,996 Speaker 6: space time. One plank is removed and thrown overboard, and 433 00:24:30,196 --> 00:24:33,196 Speaker 6: a replacement plank is installed taken from the cargo the 434 00:24:33,236 --> 00:24:36,516 Speaker 6: ship has on board, so when it arrives it doesn't 435 00:24:36,516 --> 00:24:39,636 Speaker 6: have a single part that is identical to any of 436 00:24:39,636 --> 00:24:42,276 Speaker 6: the parts that started out with, and so there's no 437 00:24:42,356 --> 00:24:44,636 Speaker 6: point at which you can say, aha, now we have 438 00:24:44,716 --> 00:24:48,876 Speaker 6: a new ship, a different a numerically different ship. So 439 00:24:48,996 --> 00:24:51,476 Speaker 6: that if you have that sort of argument in mind, 440 00:24:51,476 --> 00:24:55,076 Speaker 6: you think, okay, the Space Show temporal continuity criterion is 441 00:24:55,076 --> 00:24:57,916 Speaker 6: the correct one. Forget about requiring that all the parts 442 00:24:57,916 --> 00:24:58,476 Speaker 6: are the same. 443 00:24:59,116 --> 00:25:03,396 Speaker 1: But Con is not finished as a philosopher. His job 444 00:25:03,436 --> 00:25:06,116 Speaker 1: is to consider all the scenarios raised by the ship 445 00:25:06,116 --> 00:25:09,636 Speaker 1: of THESEUS conundrum, like the museum counter example. 446 00:25:09,876 --> 00:25:13,756 Speaker 6: The museum example goes like this. Suppose the ship is 447 00:25:14,676 --> 00:25:18,316 Speaker 6: in a museum of ancient ships and a gang of 448 00:25:18,356 --> 00:25:21,676 Speaker 6: crooks is trying to steal this ancient ship, and it 449 00:25:21,796 --> 00:25:24,836 Speaker 6: realizes it can't just haul it out in one piece. 450 00:25:24,916 --> 00:25:27,476 Speaker 6: They would easily be spotted. So they come up with 451 00:25:27,516 --> 00:25:28,396 Speaker 6: a clever scheme. 452 00:25:28,756 --> 00:25:31,716 Speaker 1: They sneak in every night and steal the ship, one 453 00:25:31,796 --> 00:25:34,396 Speaker 1: board at a time, one plank a day, so the 454 00:25:34,516 --> 00:25:36,316 Speaker 1: museum doesn't realize what's going on. 455 00:25:36,636 --> 00:25:40,116 Speaker 6: By the time they're finished on day number an, they 456 00:25:40,156 --> 00:25:43,996 Speaker 6: have all end parts of the ship removed. Now they 457 00:25:44,036 --> 00:25:47,156 Speaker 6: reassemble them and put it on the black market. They're 458 00:25:47,316 --> 00:25:51,756 Speaker 6: selling theseus's ancient ship for a pretty price, and they've 459 00:25:51,876 --> 00:25:56,116 Speaker 6: left a replica behind in the museum. I contend that 460 00:25:56,196 --> 00:25:59,436 Speaker 6: in this case, when you describe it in this way, 461 00:25:59,556 --> 00:26:04,356 Speaker 6: it seems as if Theseus's ship has been stolen piecemeal 462 00:26:04,556 --> 00:26:06,956 Speaker 6: from the museum. 463 00:26:07,316 --> 00:26:09,796 Speaker 1: Cohen's point is that there's no simple answer to the 464 00:26:09,796 --> 00:26:13,316 Speaker 1: ship of Theseus problem. You can go around and around 465 00:26:13,356 --> 00:26:16,476 Speaker 1: and around. That's why it's a puzzle. But do you 466 00:26:16,556 --> 00:26:19,596 Speaker 1: see what the lawyers at the LA Board of Equalization did. 467 00:26:20,316 --> 00:26:23,836 Speaker 1: They just waltz into a philosophical conundrum that has bedeviled 468 00:26:23,836 --> 00:26:26,036 Speaker 1: some of the best minds in the world for two 469 00:26:26,276 --> 00:26:29,996 Speaker 1: thousand years and declare victory and say, oh, it's definitely 470 00:26:30,076 --> 00:26:35,076 Speaker 1: option one spatio temporal continuity. 471 00:26:36,516 --> 00:26:41,796 Speaker 6: The problem as it stands is irresolvable, and you only 472 00:26:41,876 --> 00:26:44,516 Speaker 6: come to a conclusion that makes any sense to you 473 00:26:45,356 --> 00:26:50,436 Speaker 6: if you place it in a context in which there 474 00:26:50,476 --> 00:26:56,236 Speaker 6: is something sort of extra metaphysical, something pragmatic, that helps 475 00:26:56,316 --> 00:26:58,276 Speaker 6: that tilts you in one direction or the other. 476 00:26:58,796 --> 00:27:03,116 Speaker 1: So what's the pragmatic, extra metaphysical consideration here? It's at 477 00:27:03,196 --> 00:27:06,796 Speaker 1: Los Angeles ranks near the bottom of all major metropolitan 478 00:27:06,876 --> 00:27:10,036 Speaker 1: areas in the United States in terms of public parks. 479 00:27:10,716 --> 00:27:13,676 Speaker 1: There's Griffith Park off in the northeastern corner of the city, 480 00:27:13,836 --> 00:27:16,076 Speaker 1: which only a fraction of the city can even get to. 481 00:27:16,796 --> 00:27:20,396 Speaker 1: And then there's basically nothing except these massive golf courses 482 00:27:20,956 --> 00:27:24,356 Speaker 1: which are both closed to the general public and subsidized 483 00:27:24,356 --> 00:27:26,556 Speaker 1: by the general public. Do you want to know the 484 00:27:26,556 --> 00:27:30,116 Speaker 1: size of that subsidy? I asked around a guy I 485 00:27:30,196 --> 00:27:31,996 Speaker 1: know knows a guy who's a member of the La 486 00:27:32,076 --> 00:27:35,676 Speaker 1: Country Club. That guy's back of the envelope calculation was 487 00:27:35,716 --> 00:27:38,316 Speaker 1: that the club's land was worth about six billion dollars. 488 00:27:38,876 --> 00:27:41,196 Speaker 1: But that was a couple years ago. Then I heard 489 00:27:41,196 --> 00:27:43,116 Speaker 1: from another guy who said that they now think it's 490 00:27:43,156 --> 00:27:48,836 Speaker 1: worth nine billion, nine billion. Under normal circumstances, the property 491 00:27:48,876 --> 00:27:51,596 Speaker 1: taxes on that much land would come to about ninety 492 00:27:51,796 --> 00:27:55,036 Speaker 1: million dollars a year. Do you know what LA Country 493 00:27:55,036 --> 00:27:57,916 Speaker 1: Club actually paid after you add up the Bob Hope 494 00:27:57,916 --> 00:28:02,716 Speaker 1: exemption and the Spatio temporal continuity ruling two hundred thousand 495 00:28:02,756 --> 00:28:07,076 Speaker 1: dollars give or take all. Right, let's do the math together. 496 00:28:07,916 --> 00:28:11,356 Speaker 1: They should be paying ninety million. In fact, they're only 497 00:28:11,396 --> 00:28:15,876 Speaker 1: paying two hundred thousand dollars in property taxes ninety million 498 00:28:15,916 --> 00:28:18,996 Speaker 1: minus two hundred thousand dollars is eighty nine million, eight 499 00:28:19,116 --> 00:28:22,676 Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars. That's how much the tax bearers of 500 00:28:22,756 --> 00:28:26,916 Speaker 1: Los Angeles subsidize one of the swankiest country clubs in 501 00:28:26,956 --> 00:28:30,116 Speaker 1: the world every year. Well, now I wander to bring 502 00:28:30,196 --> 00:28:33,316 Speaker 1: up something else that comes to mind here, which is 503 00:28:33,356 --> 00:28:39,156 Speaker 1: that the spatial temporal argument, taken out of philosophical context, 504 00:28:39,796 --> 00:28:45,596 Speaker 1: strikes me as being can sometimes be really troubling. For example, 505 00:28:45,636 --> 00:28:49,236 Speaker 1: it's a very I mean, I think there's something fundamentally 506 00:28:49,316 --> 00:28:52,276 Speaker 1: intuitive about it. And I don't mean that necessarily in 507 00:28:52,316 --> 00:28:55,556 Speaker 1: a good way. That it you know, that we get 508 00:28:55,596 --> 00:28:59,956 Speaker 1: the fact that we call the Hudson River the Hudson River, 509 00:29:00,116 --> 00:29:05,476 Speaker 1: even though the Hudson River is at every second changing. 510 00:29:05,916 --> 00:29:08,676 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, the water's up, the same boats 511 00:29:08,756 --> 00:29:10,476 Speaker 1: go down on it. You know, it's never that he 512 00:29:10,556 --> 00:29:13,076 Speaker 1: never looks the same way twice ever. But we continue 513 00:29:13,116 --> 00:29:15,796 Speaker 1: to call it the Hudson River. But it strikes me 514 00:29:15,836 --> 00:29:19,436 Speaker 1: that in a political context, as kind of thinking can 515 00:29:19,476 --> 00:29:23,836 Speaker 1: be used to perpetuate inequality and injustice. 516 00:29:24,596 --> 00:29:25,116 Speaker 6: Interesting. 517 00:29:26,116 --> 00:29:28,996 Speaker 1: For example, what is the what is an aristocracy but 518 00:29:29,116 --> 00:29:35,956 Speaker 1: a political formulation of the spatial temporal continuity principle? Right? 519 00:29:36,116 --> 00:29:38,316 Speaker 6: It is something like that, and it's. 520 00:29:38,076 --> 00:29:41,996 Speaker 1: It's troubling it precisely that way, because they're saying circumstances 521 00:29:42,036 --> 00:29:44,956 Speaker 1: can change, and the holders of the privilege can change. 522 00:29:44,996 --> 00:29:48,956 Speaker 1: The father can die and the son can inherit the peerage, 523 00:29:49,316 --> 00:29:53,276 Speaker 1: but the peerage remains intact. It has this quality that's 524 00:29:53,316 --> 00:29:56,236 Speaker 1: independent of all that's going around it. 525 00:29:56,276 --> 00:30:00,756 Speaker 6: And that's yes, where there where the identity of the 526 00:30:00,796 --> 00:30:05,596 Speaker 6: object confers, for example, a right or a title, and 527 00:30:05,676 --> 00:30:10,076 Speaker 6: if it's considered to be held intact and in by 528 00:30:10,156 --> 00:30:14,636 Speaker 6: whoever holds it at any one time, then basically that 529 00:30:14,836 --> 00:30:19,356 Speaker 6: removes change altogether from the realm of what matters as 530 00:30:19,356 --> 00:30:25,236 Speaker 6: far as as ownership is concerned. Yes, so the seventeenth 531 00:30:25,396 --> 00:30:28,276 Speaker 6: great grandson of the peer still has all of the 532 00:30:28,356 --> 00:30:32,876 Speaker 6: rights and privileges, even though so far removed from the 533 00:30:32,956 --> 00:30:36,996 Speaker 6: rights and privileges as they attached to the original holder 534 00:30:37,036 --> 00:30:41,676 Speaker 6: of them. So there is something that is unfair and 535 00:30:41,756 --> 00:30:46,516 Speaker 6: anti egalitarian about the way this principle can get applied. 536 00:30:50,476 --> 00:30:55,716 Speaker 1: So the golf clubs of Los Angeles are essentially aristocratic 537 00:30:55,756 --> 00:31:05,156 Speaker 1: institutions exactly. I think someone needs to tell Brimwood and 538 00:31:05,276 --> 00:31:08,036 Speaker 1: La Country Club and all the others that if they 539 00:31:08,076 --> 00:31:12,076 Speaker 1: want to hold space, temporal continuity privileges, they have to 540 00:31:12,076 --> 00:31:16,596 Speaker 1: give something back. Take down your barbed wire. Your members 541 00:31:16,596 --> 00:31:20,116 Speaker 1: can play golf on weekdays, but evenings and weekends belong 542 00:31:20,196 --> 00:31:24,396 Speaker 1: to the ordinary taxpayers of Los Angeles. Let them come 543 00:31:24,476 --> 00:31:27,356 Speaker 1: and enjoy the greens and fairways that they've been subsidizing 544 00:31:27,476 --> 00:31:31,236 Speaker 1: for generations. It's worth remembering, by the way, that the 545 00:31:31,236 --> 00:31:34,036 Speaker 1: most famous golf course in the world, the home of golf, 546 00:31:34,116 --> 00:31:37,076 Speaker 1: Saint Andrews in Scotland, is open to the general public 547 00:31:37,116 --> 00:31:41,716 Speaker 1: on Sundays. In Toronto, the fanciest golf club is Rosedale 548 00:31:41,756 --> 00:31:44,556 Speaker 1: Country Club, right in the middle of the city, but 549 00:31:44,596 --> 00:31:47,916 Speaker 1: the golf course is only private in summer. The rest 550 00:31:47,916 --> 00:31:50,156 Speaker 1: of the time it's open to anyone who wants to 551 00:31:50,236 --> 00:31:52,676 Speaker 1: go for a walk, or play frisbee, or go cross 552 00:31:52,676 --> 00:31:56,916 Speaker 1: country skiing. Canada and the United Kingdom, i would point out, 553 00:31:57,196 --> 00:32:00,956 Speaker 1: are governed by a queen. They have an actual aristocracy, 554 00:32:01,636 --> 00:32:04,076 Speaker 1: but somehow they've figured out a way to have their 555 00:32:04,156 --> 00:32:08,316 Speaker 1: fancy golf courses be democratic. It's only on the corner 556 00:32:08,316 --> 00:32:11,356 Speaker 1: of the sena day in Berlin game that golf remains 557 00:32:11,396 --> 00:32:13,716 Speaker 1: an instrument of medieval privilege. 558 00:32:14,436 --> 00:32:18,676 Speaker 2: I mean, when you fly over LA. The green space 559 00:32:18,716 --> 00:32:21,636 Speaker 2: that you see is cemeteries and golf courses. 560 00:32:21,356 --> 00:32:22,116 Speaker 1: And golf courses. 561 00:32:22,156 --> 00:32:24,756 Speaker 2: You don't see parks. We don't have a park like 562 00:32:24,916 --> 00:32:28,876 Speaker 2: say San Francisco's Golden Gate Park or New York's Central Park, 563 00:32:28,956 --> 00:32:29,596 Speaker 2: Central Park. 564 00:32:30,236 --> 00:32:30,356 Speaker 6: Day. 565 00:32:30,476 --> 00:32:32,596 Speaker 1: Doc and I are standing outside the barbed wire or 566 00:32:32,596 --> 00:32:36,436 Speaker 1: Brentwood Country Club, peering through a fence. We're trying to 567 00:32:36,476 --> 00:32:39,116 Speaker 1: spot one of the privileged few permitted a walk in 568 00:32:39,116 --> 00:32:40,756 Speaker 1: the park on the west side of LA. 569 00:32:40,836 --> 00:32:44,476 Speaker 2: I see one, guy, I see one. 570 00:32:46,196 --> 00:32:48,996 Speaker 1: That's unbelievable. It's a Saturday afternoon. Sun is now coming 571 00:32:48,996 --> 00:32:53,476 Speaker 1: out yep. Like right now, we're standing on the running 572 00:32:53,556 --> 00:32:57,236 Speaker 1: track and there's someone running up there. Now, there are 573 00:32:57,236 --> 00:33:00,996 Speaker 1: more people on this narrow dirt track than there are 574 00:33:01,636 --> 00:33:04,316 Speaker 1: typically on the golf course. You see if you can 575 00:33:04,356 --> 00:33:08,916 Speaker 1: still see any kind of I'm still looking for a 576 00:33:08,916 --> 00:33:10,636 Speaker 1: golf I'm not. 577 00:33:11,076 --> 00:33:12,076 Speaker 2: Oh, I see one. 578 00:33:12,396 --> 00:33:13,076 Speaker 1: You see one? 579 00:33:12,956 --> 00:33:14,956 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's very exciting. 580 00:33:15,196 --> 00:33:23,276 Speaker 1: Yeah, next time I'm climbing the fence. Maybe we all should. 581 00:33:38,916 --> 00:33:41,636 Speaker 1: Original's History is produced by me LaBelle and Jacob Smith, 582 00:33:41,676 --> 00:33:46,356 Speaker 1: with Camille Baptista, Stephanie Daniel, and Ciamara Martinez wife. Our 583 00:33:46,476 --> 00:33:50,756 Speaker 1: editor is Julia Barton. Flond Williams is our engineer. Original 584 00:33:50,836 --> 00:33:54,356 Speaker 1: music by Luis Guerra. A special thanks to Andy Bauers 585 00:33:54,476 --> 00:33:57,476 Speaker 1: and my old pal Jacob Weisberg at Panathley. 586 00:33:58,316 --> 00:33:59,156 Speaker 6: I'm out in Battlo