WEBVTT - Infidelity: Can Your Relationship Survive? 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.480 Hey, fam I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:06.359 Red tabletop podcast, all your favorite episodes from the Facebook 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:10.200 Watch show in audio produced by Westbrook Audio and I 0:00:10.320 --> 0:00:13.480 Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review on 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:18.119 Apple podcasts. On this Red Table Talk, I'm asked a lot. 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:21.280 Was your infidelity in your relationship with well world renowned 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:24.520 couple therapists A Stair Parrel comes to the Red Table. 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:29.400 So you've been really instrumental in my marriage. Every relationship 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:32.880 has a scorecard, and when distinct happens, the scorecard gets 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:36.720 revisited and the circumstances where I was the cheater, I 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:41.280 was always looking for something. Yes, Plus our Urtt family 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:53.920 opens up. Sometimes you just don't know what's wrong with you. Alright, girl, girl, girl, 0:00:54.360 --> 0:01:00.200 our girl A stair ye prel. Yeah, today to talk 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:02.560 about infidelity, and it's gonna be a good one. It 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:05.880 is gonna be a good one. Once you start engaging 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:11.640 in relationships, in romantic relationships, you either at some point 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:15.600 in time are gonna cheat or have been cheated on. 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:19.199 You'll be in either one of those positions or both. Yes, 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:21.880 and I've been on both sides, and so have I. 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:25.039 I had a really interesting experience. When I was younger, 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:30.480 I had to relationships before will that were kind of 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:34.279 serious to me where I got cheated on, which really 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:38.000 broke my heart. And then I cheated on somebody that 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:39.759 I really cared about. And I have to tell you, 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:43.480 me cheating on someone was more devastating than me being 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:47.600 cheated on. Really, yes, it actually taught me to forgive 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:51.080 when I got cheated on because I understood, and what 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:53.240 I understood most is that it didn't have anything to 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:56.120 do with me. Because when I had to look at 0:01:56.160 --> 0:02:00.440 myself and understand why I did it right, I realized 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:05.120 it had absolutely nothing to do with my partners at all. 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:09.400 When I look over my history of relationships, I would 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:14.880 always say, oh, I'm a one man woman, and then 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:18.520 I would look over and be like, wait, my hold relationships. Like, 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:23.519 particularly when I took my fourth step in my recovery process, 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:26.880 I was like, uh, no, you're not missing, No you're 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:30.000 not you know. So, like I said, I've been on 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:33.480 both sides of it. But what I also recognized too 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:37.920 was like, even when my relationships failed, typically it was 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:42.160 not over that. Like I never got cheated on and 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:46.120 felt like I'm out, I'm not tolerating that, you know, 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:49.280 which is what what I constantly tell myself in my 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:53.359 head or if he ever write all of that. But 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:55.280 at the end of the day, until you get there, 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:57.720 you really don't know. You don't know what you're gonna do. 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:02.760 I found that, you know, in the circumstances where I 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:08.160 was the cheater, I was always looking for something, something else, 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:12.200 that there was something lacking in the relationship, and not 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:15.160 that it was not that I'm blaming the other partner, 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:18.280 I'm not doing that, but yeah, I just don't feel 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:20.680 like I was just out here, you know, trying to 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:25.919 hurt people and just being messy. So we got somebody 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:29.720 here today that I am so excited yes to be 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:32.080 talking to. And we've been trying to get this woman 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:36.320 to the table forever since the beginning of our show. 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:42.800 Her insights are just powerful and um deep and progressive, 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:50.600 king poking, and she's been really instrumental in my marriage 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:55.080 to Will. Will he introduced meeting in captivity to me, 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:58.400 and then I introduced the state of affairs to him. Yeah, 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:01.080 and we are her big guest fans, and you are 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:04.520 now her big fans too. I am a stair parrel 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:08.520 is a world renowned psychotherapist who specializes in marriage and infidelity. 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:11.280 She's the author of two best selling books we have 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:15.680 read them cover to cover, a groundbreaking podcasts and making headlines, 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:18.440 and as a couple's counselor for over thirty years, her 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:24.000 unconventional insight has helped thousands of couples. Oh my goodness, 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:31.720 so wonderful to see you. We're so excited to have you. 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:39.640 I actually think you've had conversations with Will, haven't you. Yes, yes, yes, yes, 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:46.880 but I didn't know if you knew yes, yeah, yeah, no, no, no, 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:49.600 definitely he shared that with me for sure. That's right, 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:55.479 because you are. Yes. So, the latest stats that I've 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:59.880 heard is that fifties seven percent of men and fifty 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:04.520 four percent of women have cheated on their partners. Can 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:08.919 you tell us why the typical view has always been well, 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:12.359 because there's something listening in the relationship. Because they're unhappy, 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:16.720 they're miserable, they're lonely, they're depressed, they're wants a cheater, 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:20.640 always a cheatter. They have no morals because they feel neglected, 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:24.080 because there is indifference in the relationship. There is a 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:29.560 myriad of discontent within relationships that may propel people to 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:32.960 respond to the kindness of strangers. What are the alternatives 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:36.039 of divorce? Everybody thinks that as soon as you find 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:39.120 out there's an affair, you gotta get a divorce. I 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:42.600 am not of that persuasion because I think that there 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:49.040 are many relational betrayals, contempt and neglect and violence and indifference, 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:52.840 and nobody tells people get the hell out, get the 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:56.320 hell out, And especially on women, it's the real new pressure. 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:59.279 God forbid, you still would love the person who actually, 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:01.800 you know, cheated on you. Maybe that person is a 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:05.800 lot of things and cheated. That's like the shame of staying. 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:08.280 You know, now that you can go, you gotta get out, right. 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:11.440 I so relate to that, because you know, I'm asked 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:14.440 a lot about their infidelity in your relationship with Will, 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:17.200 and it's like, no, But there have been other portrayals 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:21.000 of the heart that have been far bigger then I 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:25.599 could even think in regards to an infidelity situation. When 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:29.599 you talk about contempt or resentment or what have you, neglect, 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:34.000 it can just tear your world apart. So many of 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:37.719 the people that I see have been faithful for decades 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:40.720 and then one day they crossed the line that they 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.760 never thought they would cross, right, you know, why would 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:47.599 they risk losing everything that they built for what? You know? 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:49.839 The idea is that if you have everything that you 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:52.880 wanted them, there should be no reason to go looking elsewhere. Hence, 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:55.360 if you go looking elsewhere, there is something missing. Either 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:57.159 it's in you, there is in your partner, but there 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:00.400 must be a deficiency somewhere. One person whould treats on 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:04.200 another a perpetrator and a victim, a good person and 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:07.320 a bad person. And it's a lot more more than less. 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:11.240 And if you wear more, whatever, smarter, toller, gender, richer, 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:15.480 more powerful, it wouldn't have happened. It's not the case, right. 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:18.760 You might be married to someone who is just a 0:07:19.120 --> 0:07:23.960 innate adventurer, like there's just certain kinds of desires within 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:28.200 of that that had nothing to do with you per se. 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:32.880 But there are personal desires that need to be um 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:36.720 explored in some manner. And even if it's not necessary 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:40.440 an exploration that lasts forever, it's an exploration that needs 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:43.400 to happen to get through a passage of some kind. 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:47.560 That is an important idea because, specifically for me, in 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:51.960 regards to creating now, redefining my marriage as a life 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:56.160 partnership was the necessity of autonomy for myself and for 0:07:56.240 --> 0:08:01.640 will you know, and finding the core of us that 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:05.880 wanted to be together outside of the constraints of the 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:10.000 traditional ideas of marriage because they weren't working for us. 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:13.400 We went on that journey of of that life partnership 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:18.320 to find that autonomy and to find the true authentic 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:22.680 bond outside of obligation. I don't want you to be obligated. 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:26.480 What part of this is the part that you actually 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.680 want and the part that you want to be devoted to? 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:32.040 And what part of it do I want and want 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:35.800 to be devoted to outside of what we've been told 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:39.400 we're supposed to be obligated to. What were you're told 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:41.560 you have to do? You know, you have to be 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:45.240 a perfect wife. You have to be that source that 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:49.360 supports his dreams no matter what it is, whatever he 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:52.640 wants to build, you're there to support that. Our whole 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:56.600 life looked like his dream and the title for that 0:08:56.760 --> 0:09:00.800 your go to us and his muse his Yeah, basically, 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:06.080 you know I'm his energy source. That's great, but but 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:09.680 I've got to create part of this life that is 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:13.280 designed and looks like me. And when you said that, 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:16.520 did he was he receptive or he felt abandoned. He 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:20.719 felt abandoned at first. He felt really abandoned, because if 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:23.240 you take a little bit of autonomy, you may leave 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:26.600 alto exactly. And that's one of the reasons why I 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:29.040 stayed in it the way I did for so long, 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:32.360 because I was so terrified. First of all, you never 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:34.600 want to hurt the person that you love. I never 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:37.880 want to create instability in that way. So I stayed 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:42.040 in that position for so long because I just didn't 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:45.200 I didn't know how to say it. It was one 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:47.600 of those truths when I say that the truths get deeper. 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:51.959 That was that was a core truth that took years 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:54.480 for me to just go can't. But you just made 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:58.480 a fantastic distinction. It's not the same staying in the 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:05.160 marriage versus in a role, right, Yes, yes, you know. 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:08.120 I have this way. I always think of relationships. For me, 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:11.320 relationships are stories, right, So I think you pick a partner, 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:13.800 you pick a story, right, But then sometimes you find 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:17.559 yourself recruited for a play that you didn't audition for exactly, 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:20.880 And it's the rule that you want to change, and 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:24.440 people confuse changing the role with wanting to change the 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:27.640 whole relationship and leave right. Not only did I want 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:30.640 to change the role, but I wanted to change the play. 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:33.840 And once you change the life story, you can create 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:39.400 a new lost exactly exactly. And that's exactly what has occurred. 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:42.600 And it's been beautiful, but when I tell you, it 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:47.960 has been one of the most excruciating processes of my life. 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:52.000 I wanted to personally break out of will needing to 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:54.560 be something for me because I felt like it was 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:57.240 so unfair and a lot of it had to do 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:01.280 with my father issues. I just realized one day, I 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:04.840 was like, this man is not your father. He's not 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:08.480 stop it or he's not meant to be everything your 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:12.679 father was exactly, and that was the thing, and I 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:16.280 was like, you gotta grow up, you gotta be a woman, 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:19.600 that little girl. Trauma does not work here, and that 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:21.360 was the work I had, he must have. I mean, 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:23.959 usually it takes two to tango, So if you know 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:27.840 that's what is that, That's where we connected was our 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:33.560 childhood traumas exactly, And in my codependency, I was like, 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:37.400 don't you worry. I'll take all your feeling and emotion. 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:39.880 You don't have to deal with that. I'll deal with 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:43.680 that for you. And that was the secret contract that 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:45.800 I had made with him. And then I had to 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:48.640 make the decision, one of the most painful decisions, was 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:52.080 I gotta give that back to you. I can't do 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:55.920 that for you any longer, and I can't ask you 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:58.720 to do it for me. We're gonna have to be 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:02.280 in this thing together as individuals, and we're gonna have 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.000 to be real grown and this because they ain't working 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:08.000 like this. We got to do our own work. It's interestingly, 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:10.920 when people do their own work, they're able to be 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:14.000 more there for the other. Yes, I can be there 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:16.439 for you because I'm not busy doing it from the 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:19.960 place that says I'll be the custodian of everything that 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:23.200 you don't want to deal with and then be upset 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:26.000 about it and then ask you to reward me for it. 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:29.400 That was that. That was the cycle right there. That 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:32.560 was my cycle. And then I went into market and 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:36.840 his will then be, look what I've done for you? 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:41.280 You know, every relationship has a scorecard. Yes, right, what 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:43.320 you've done, what you gave up, what I gave up, 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:47.760 you know, And when this thing happens, the scorecard gets revisited, 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:50.000 and it's a lot of things that I was willing 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:53.520 to do for us just because that I know I'm not. 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:58.120 You know, they never said now we are going to redistribute, 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:02.920 you know, the need. It's assessment in our relationship. Who 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:06.960 gets what? When? What attention? No, I'm not okay anymore 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:09.480 with your being out in ten o'clock at night every 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:12.400 night and me taking care of everything that took the 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.319 house looks so beautiful, So you can be really proud 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:17.840 of me and do absolutely not so if you need 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:24.920 they're saying French, that's you know, because I think people 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:27.760 don't really I think, and you talk about it in 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:30.160 the book that people are afraid to even sit down 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:35.760 and have a discussion, you know, but same after they 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:40.280 have a crisis. Yes, not before, and even like that. 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:42.560 It wasn't my case. It was after the fact that 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:45.160 I had the discussion. I'm glad I did, but and 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:48.920 what was your discussion? We went into a relationship with 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:57.319 the automatic expectation that sexual exclusivity was expected, like this 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:00.959 is how, this is how it is. You're supposed to 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:03.920 be getting married, you you're sexually exclusive. You're not going 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:08.200 to be having sex with other people, you know, And 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:12.600 I don't think people really talk about what what is needed? 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:15.880 What does it mean? What is being exclusive or not? 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:18.280 You know? I think it's important to understand why is 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:21.600 that conversation so difficult? Because I meet you and I 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:23.840 fall in love with you, and I think I have 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:28.520 found the one and the one means especially since I'm 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:31.160 not eighteen these days in the West and eight so 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:34.040 I've had I've been around. Now you are the one 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:36.960 for whom I'm going to delete my apps and you 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:39.960 are going to fulfill every one of my needs. And 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:43.320 how can I then say to you in the same 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:48.200 breath I found the one. Let's talk about what would 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.760 happen if we had desires for others? What do we 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:55.160 do with our sexuality? Can we have a sexual health 0:14:55.200 --> 0:15:00.280 conversations about boundaries, about desire, about fantasies, about plastics, parents, 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:02.760 is about trauma, but a lot of things now we 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:04.960 don't because the minute I tell you I want to 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:07.360 talk about anything that isn't you, You're gonna say what's 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:09.960 wrong with me? You know, monogamy used to be one 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:13.320 person for life. Today monogamy is one person at that time. 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:16.240 You know, so I come to you. It's not like 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:19.200 I have been exclusive. It's that that for you, I 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:23.680 will stop being with anybody else. That's your importance. Now, 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:26.800 you know, we live with the model. The romantic ideal 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:32.000 is a tenacious model, and that model today is that, 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:36.080 you know, I'm going to have with you everything that 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:39.120 I was supposed to get in traditional marriage. You're gonna 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:41.640 be my co parents, and I'm going to have economic support, 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:43.560 and we're gonna be partners. But on top of it, 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:45.800 you're gonna be my best friend, and you're gonna be 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:49.040 my confident, and you're gonna be my person, and you're 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:52.960 gonna help me become the best version of myself. You know, 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:56.040 I'm going to climb the Olympus with you. You know, 0:15:56.240 --> 0:16:00.760 so when this happens, it becomes the ultimate betrayal. It's 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:03.960 always been painful, but today it has become the ultimate betrayal. 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:08.400 It's the first time that we divorce because there is infidelity. 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.920 At the time people talked about exclusivity or monogamy, it 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:15.080 pretty much was an economic imposition on women. It had 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:17.800 nothing to do with love. It was in order to 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:20.240 know which are the children that I need to feed 0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:22.240 and who's going to get the cows when I die. 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:26.160 Once we brought love into marriage, and once we brought 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:31.320 sex to love, and we combined all of that with happiness. Now, 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:36.320 when you cheat on me, it becomes a romantic crisis. 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:40.160 It becomes an emotional betrayal. It's not just an economic betrayal. 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:43.720 And now I start to think this whole thing that 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:47.760 we created was a lie. You know, it's a fraud. 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:51.640 The fifteen years we had together were just one big lie. 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:55.280 As if everything you've therefore said is not true, and 0:16:55.680 --> 0:17:01.040 the whole thing comes crumbling down. R Wow. Infidelity is 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:03.080 a subject that comes up a lot with our viewers. 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:06.560 Most of you want advice, So we're bringing our viewers 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:10.200 into today's conversation. So first up is Whitney and Dennis 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:16.679 from Nashville. Hey, welcome, Thank you for having us. So 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:19.800 me and my husband, I've been together going on nine years. 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:23.119 Been about six years ago. I found out that he 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:26.000 had had an affair. At first, I didn't forgive him 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:30.920 because I felt really broken, But I decided that I 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:35.640 was going to work really hard because of how good 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:37.800 we are as a family. I mean, he is a 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:42.120 very good teammate. We have worked really hard. He's shaking 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:47.080 his head, yes, next to you. Definitely worked hard. Yeah, 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:50.960 but there are still times that he'll go out and 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:54.879 I'll start to get anxiety and I'll get a little angry, 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:57.159 and it kind of obsessed me. But you know, I 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:00.600 brought upon myself, So I guess, like she is, We've 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:03.199 done all this work, but what else could we do 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:06.560 to regain like a hundred percent trust. The voice that 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:10.480 you want him to be for you also exists inside 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:13.159 of you, and it is a voice that says normal 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:17.560 that you get triggered, that's not unusual. But you also 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.880 can you can breathe, you can reassure yourself, you can 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:23.639 remember what just happened two hours before. That lets you 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:25.920 know that you are in a completely different place from 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:29.040 where you were, and you bring yourself on the solid 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:33.480 ground so that you can also calm your nervous system 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:37.720 and deal with the trigger and not feel completely at 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:41.639 the mercy of him. Hey, Dennis, do you have any 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:46.880 clarity or understanding on why you might have cheated? I don't. 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:51.440 I think it's more do I still have it at 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:56.720 my age by other women? That yeah, got it? That 0:18:56.800 --> 0:19:00.680 makes sense. The more you tell her that she's inside 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:03.320 of you in this beautiful way when you're not with her, 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:06.399 and the less that she will only reach out to 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:09.480 you when she's triggered, because it will be replaced by 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:14.639 a caring connection versus a fear based connection. Carings fear 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:18.439 based You really want to know if you still have it, 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:24.119 show what real talk. Thank you so much that I 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:27.840 really appreciate you being here for us today. What would 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:33.959 you say are the key elements in the healing and 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:38.280 forgiveness process? Okay, the first thing I do need to 0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:40.480 know is that you care about the fact that you 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:43.520 hurt me, and that you can show me the appropriate 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:46.320 guilt anymost. And now that you've already apologized, so what 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:48.960 now you want to bring it up again? You know 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:51.159 how many times we're gonna have to talk about this, No, 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:53.879 how many times many many many times, because you have 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:56.800 just fractured my reality and everything that I thought was 0:19:56.880 --> 0:19:59.320 is no more and I'm trying to piece it back together. 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:01.600 And you need to do me the courtesy of answering 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:03.720 the question, even if I'm asking it you ten times. 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:06.320 And that's part of the healing process. That's you know, 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:08.520 the old saying is that men are meant to be 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:12.240 monogamous and that women are meant to be monogamous. Oh yeah, 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:15.720 you hear that all times, that all the time, this 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:18.800 idea that men want sex and women want love. We 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:20.800 could look at it like that, but we could also 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:24.160 see this. Men have historically and all over the world 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:28.679 being given the permission to want sex and true sex. 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:32.879 They have to access every other emotional need that is 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:41.400 usually denied to them. It's the gate yes, love, connection, intimacy, attention, tenderness, surrender, 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:44.600 you name it. Sex is the only way that they 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:48.760 can legitimately receive any of those things. So of course 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:51.200 it looks like all he wants is sex, but it's 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:55.199 a code for everything else that is usually forbidden. And 0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:59.639 women have we received the language of love and intimacy, 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:02.960 so that's what she needs to use in order to 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:08.440 access her desires, her sensuality, her sexuality. Got it. Next 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:10.800 on Skype is Jennifer from the Bay Area, and she 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:16.040 has a question, Hey, Jennifer, what's on your mind? So 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:19.639 me and my husband have been together for twelve years. 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:22.639 Got it about four years ago we moved from the 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:25.040 Bay Area to Las Vegas after he got laid off 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:28.439 a couple of months later, I became depressed and I 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:31.760 met a man at a bar and engaged in a 0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:34.480 one month affair with him. I don't really understand why 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:38.040 I did it. It really rocked our relationship, right, so 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:41.320 I need help understanding what he might be feeling so 0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:44.399 I can regain his trust. Tell me something. Did he 0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:48.480 find work again? Yes, because this happened at a moment 0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:52.920 when he felt particularly vulnerable and he felt that he 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:55.879 had lost a lot of his value. What am I 0:21:55.960 --> 0:21:59.280 worth that I'm so easily replaceable that you can go 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:02.520 and rock everything that we have with some dudes? Like 0:22:02.560 --> 0:22:05.600 who is this guy? You know? For that you would 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:08.479 destroy everything that we have built? Is that all I 0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:13.240 mean for you? It's a real crisis of meaning. Oh wow, 0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:17.920 well there it is, Jennifer, I got it. Yea. Thank 0:22:17.960 --> 0:22:21.720 you so much for sharing story. Welcome, thank you. What 0:22:21.840 --> 0:22:24.560 have been found is the reason that women cheat? What 0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:28.600 they tell you all the time is it's not that 0:22:28.680 --> 0:22:31.960 I wanted to find another person. Is that I wanted 0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:35.560 to find another self. It's not that I wanted to 0:22:35.640 --> 0:22:38.240 leave the person that I'm with. I have a great husband, 0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:42.439 he's a fantastic father, etcetera, etcetera. But I wanted to 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:47.720 leave who I had become calm and relationships, committed relationships, marriage, 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:57.600 family life. However beautiful it is, also sometimes can feel deadening, numbing, constraining, flattening, 0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:00.440 you know, and I think we hear women talk about 0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:04.119 that all the time. Should you talk about how you 0:23:04.280 --> 0:23:07.240 lost yourself? That's what I was a mother, I was 0:23:07.280 --> 0:23:10.040 a wife. I was taking care of his mother. I 0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:13.040 was taking care of my parents. This is the first time, 0:23:13.200 --> 0:23:16.040 and I don't know how long that I did something 0:23:16.119 --> 0:23:21.320 that was just for me. Okay, Renee is next on Skype. Hey, Hi, 0:23:21.840 --> 0:23:25.359 welcome to the table. Hello, Hello, hi Data, thanks for 0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:27.919 having me on the show. I've been involved with a 0:23:27.960 --> 0:23:31.440 younger man for about three years and he was separated 0:23:31.440 --> 0:23:35.240 from his wife, started dating and never did I ever 0:23:35.280 --> 0:23:37.600 imagine that I was gonna be the other woman, but 0:23:38.200 --> 0:23:41.680 that's what That's what happened. And then he decided that 0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:45.400 he was gonna go back to his wife. My heart, 0:23:45.560 --> 0:23:49.600 but like somebody just ripped it out my chest. Yeah, 0:23:49.840 --> 0:23:53.080 we stop dating, and I'm a love with thing right 0:23:53.359 --> 0:23:55.760 and I was just wondering what should I do because 0:23:55.800 --> 0:23:58.119 people want to stay in touch with me. He and 0:23:58.160 --> 0:24:00.840 called me all the time. They so will be different. 0:24:00.880 --> 0:24:04.520 If you ask his wife, Yeah, I don't think she 0:24:04.560 --> 0:24:08.000 would welcome you to stay as close to him when 0:24:08.040 --> 0:24:11.000 they are just trying to rebuild. It's gonna be hard 0:24:11.080 --> 0:24:16.080 for you because you probably had hopes for more with him, 0:24:16.160 --> 0:24:18.080 and so the idea that we're going to just stay 0:24:18.119 --> 0:24:21.480 friends you can't not yet you're still you know, a 0:24:21.520 --> 0:24:23.600 month ago, you were still hoping that maybe you would 0:24:23.600 --> 0:24:26.280 have a life with him and for him. You know, 0:24:26.320 --> 0:24:28.440 if she finds out that he stays in touch with you, 0:24:28.520 --> 0:24:30.960 it's going to be a mess. At this moment. You 0:24:31.000 --> 0:24:34.360