Speaker 1: Look Mayer, Oh, I see you my own look over
Speaker 1: there is that culture. Yes, goodness, wow, lost culture. Lost
Speaker 1: culture is just calling my girl has me laughing straight away.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I just had to comment on the glow,
Speaker 2: the berries glow shut.
Speaker 1: Up literally looking at myself in the in the zoom screen. Yes,
Speaker 1: the grid, the grid. Okay, So in terms of alcohol
Speaker 1: these days, do you feel the next day like it's
Speaker 1: a little different, like immediate puffiness, immediate puffiness. Oh.
Speaker 2: I mean not to refer to the last episode, but
Speaker 2: the video of that is really a rough for me
Speaker 2: because I am puffy, blotchy, redden spots that make no sense.
Speaker 2: I've got archipelagos on the face. It's really crazy and
Speaker 2: that's perfect example for me.
Speaker 1: But what about you. I just feel like it's funny
Speaker 1: that you say, like, wow, you look so healthy with
Speaker 1: a glow. Literally the other day I was like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm like I've been really good. It's like I was
Speaker 1: calling it dry ish January. By the way, I thought
Speaker 1: you looked absolutely incredible in the video. I thought everyone
Speaker 1: involved it amazing. I thought the lights were perfect. I
Speaker 1: thought they weren't too harsh at all in the room,
Speaker 1: though they were Breckt Well, No, I was just thinking
Speaker 1: the other day, like I'll have like a night out
Speaker 1: and the next day it's like it's a different face.
Speaker 1: And I think that's just what happens when you get
Speaker 1: a little bit old, you know. Hmmm.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Now, lots of culture since the last episode, would
Speaker 2: you say, you're got up?
Speaker 1: Oh damn, you really really launched us into the topics
Speaker 1: at a hand here with that one. I had that loaded.
Speaker 1: I definitely am caught up. I made a little list
Speaker 1: and so just you know, because I know you're all
Speaker 1: chomping at the bit, we're not going to do our
Speaker 1: goblet of years today because there's so much culture to
Speaker 1: talk about. Slash we both didn't make the document to follow,
Speaker 1: so that's just the reality of today. But fear not,
Speaker 1: fear not, because I really feel there's so much to discuss.
Speaker 2: And ninety three we weren't going to do like a
Speaker 2: slipshod job with it. It's a big year, so we
Speaker 2: got to really do the homework, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It's a Jurassic But okay, so you sort of belted
Speaker 1: those notes before cut up, and I'm really I belted,
Speaker 1: I really belt it that you really belted that you
Speaker 1: said that with the chess. Wow, all of this is
Speaker 1: gonna come together later. What'd you think of Usher? Were
Speaker 1: you absolutely thrilled with the performance. I was so happy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, watching him, I was like, this is an entertainer.
Speaker 2: That whole production was Atlanta and Vegas. It was so
Speaker 2: those cities, all the elements were great. I mean, this man,
Speaker 2: that quick change. I looked one minute under one minute
Speaker 2: insane for him to go into well granted he was
Speaker 2: shirtless going into the roller skate loook. Yeah, one minute,
Speaker 2: and I just my quick change girl is out there?
Speaker 2: Who know who have practical knowledge of this?
Speaker 1: Have you ever your little Broadway cunts, your little Broadway
Speaker 1: cunts in the words of in the words of great American?
Speaker 1: Have you experienced quick change culture at all? I have. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I did amateur sketch, not not on the level that
Speaker 1: you did, but I've done quick changes for show. Someday.
Speaker 1: You're for show someday You're going to have like three
Speaker 1: people waiting for you in the wings with an open
Speaker 1: jacket with pants with like a wig like and wide
Speaker 1: eyes and wide eyes. And I just want to say,
Speaker 1: one minute is nail bier time. It's crazy. First of all,
Speaker 1: it's really much shorter than you think. Okay, one minute,
Speaker 1: like one minute on the clock, Like you're really on
Speaker 1: the clock there, like you better hurry.
Speaker 2: One minute in Vegas is I mean talk about a
Speaker 2: New York minute. That's a Vegas minute.
Speaker 1: Baby. It's like fire Island time moves a little differently there. Wow?
Speaker 1: Who wrote that? A tortured poet? Joel Boster from the
Speaker 1: Torture Poet's Department. Now, if Taylor is the chairman, who
Speaker 1: is Joel vice chair Byce Royce ROI very Star Wars
Speaker 1: episode one? Okay, continue Usher, Usher? Oh No, that's I mean,
Speaker 1: I do have it.
Speaker 2: I don't think somebody that's about an element of this
Speaker 2: that is not specific to anyone on that stage that night.
Speaker 1: But it's a thing that I think.
Speaker 2: We we have the means to correct, and yet we
Speaker 2: still in the year twenty twenty four, don't get right.
Speaker 1: And I want to talk about this later on. Oh
Speaker 1: my god. Well now I'm absolutely I feel baited. I'm
Speaker 1: edging for that. So my opinion on the Usher performances,
Speaker 1: I think it got better, it sharted and I thought, okay,
Speaker 1: there's a lot going on. Yeah, I just think I
Speaker 1: was contrasting it with like Rihanna's perform last year, which
Speaker 1: was so like for the cameras and the colors were
Speaker 1: so clear, and she was so like focused and like
Speaker 1: it was just very.
Speaker 2: That was a new kind of Super Bowl performance that
Speaker 2: was like all innovation. Rice one was was pretty. I
Speaker 2: think it's huge to tradition and a way that totally
Speaker 2: was fine and acceptable. And also that's a man and
Speaker 2: men just don't do it for gay men in the
Speaker 2: way that women do.
Speaker 1: Does that mean yeah, But that being said, I do
Speaker 1: think that he was dressed like one of the world's
Speaker 1: top ten gayest men. Like I do think his outfits
Speaker 1: are often what I would call so gay, especially that
Speaker 1: blue number he came out in and did the Rollerskates on.
Speaker 1: I think that like there was so much here for
Speaker 1: the gay male. I for example, Usher was shirtless, Usher
Speaker 1: was dancing, Usher was looking gay. And I say this
Speaker 1: as the biggest compliment, like, whenever a straight man can
Speaker 1: come out looking that gay, I think it's so incredible,
Speaker 1: And I think that was actually a message to the
Speaker 1: world that gay is here. I think that was an
Speaker 1: LGBTQ performance. Plus, even if I had any note for
Speaker 1: the performance, It's the same note that I have for
Speaker 1: the lgbtqbus community, which is too much, too much at
Speaker 1: the beginning, you know what I mean, that's true note
Speaker 1: for the community, Yeah, too much. I just thought at
Speaker 1: the top there was so much going on that I
Speaker 1: couldn't like see it. But once a Lisha came out,
Speaker 1: and once we got over that first note, we got
Speaker 1: we got through greener pastors, and I loved watching the
Speaker 1: Mybu performance. I thought Alisha looked amazing, Alicia looked great,
Speaker 1: and you know, that was a throwback moment and that
Speaker 1: chemistry is still there between those two totally. I thought
Speaker 1: once we got through, when we got him off that
Speaker 1: first mic and we got into the performance, then I
Speaker 1: thought the performance got better, Like the roller skating was incredible.
Speaker 1: He's obviously amazing, But you know, I thought overall was
Speaker 1: like of seven.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, seven seems good. You're not in the
Speaker 2: beginning of it there being too much. I think that's
Speaker 2: a camera because it would like some girl in a
Speaker 2: tux would do a backflip and the camera would follow
Speaker 2: her for some reason. But it's like, no, we want
Speaker 2: to look at usher, like.
Speaker 1: Why something for sure was happening with the camera there
Speaker 1: was something going on at the top. And again this
Speaker 1: is like so small and nipicky because the performance was great.
Speaker 1: His songs are I remember like when I saw him
Speaker 1: in Vegas, I was like, wow, so you know so
Speaker 1: many more of these than you realize it is. It's
Speaker 1: like an arsenal of hits, which I think is so
Speaker 1: important in a subway performer. And I want to get
Speaker 1: your opinion about, like who the next couple great super
Speaker 1: Bowl headlines you want to see are like, did you're
Speaker 1: talking subway performer? Did I say subway performer? I think, really,
Speaker 1: can we get can we roll back? Can we get
Speaker 1: a conversation? I said subway in a subway performer? Yes,
Speaker 1: says yeah, I'm sorry. I just had to acknowledge that.
Speaker 1: I was like, you're calling Usher, like, no, no, I
Speaker 1: I don't think Usher has needed to busk. Ever, that
Speaker 1: was a slip of the tongue. No, no one involved
Speaker 1: this a subway performer. And also this is I say
Speaker 1: it with all the respect to also by performers. Many
Speaker 1: of them could probably do the Super Bowl and do
Speaker 1: a fabulous job, a bang up job. Now, what was
Speaker 1: your original question? What do you think we're gonna see
Speaker 1: In terms of next great super Bowl headliner, the girls
Speaker 1: and I were sort of kicking this around the other day,
Speaker 1: like because it feels like there aren't too too many
Speaker 1: people who are like monoculture huge that would excel at
Speaker 1: the super Bowl. And then we kind of kicked around,
Speaker 1: like a couple names that we think could do it, Like,
Speaker 1: obviously there's Taylor, will get to her. There's a lot
Speaker 1: to discuss about Taylor this week. I was thinking, especially
Speaker 1: after the Grammys, like Miley would be amazing. I also
Speaker 1: think Dua would be amazing, But I want to know
Speaker 1: what you think do it would be amazing. Miley would
Speaker 1: be amazing.
Speaker 2: Because we really are hitting a plateau with like in
Speaker 2: terms of people who have not been picked to do it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And I don't know if it's a matter of cooking
Speaker 2: of like letting the girls cook for a little exactly
Speaker 2: before they're ready. But I feel like things have been
Speaker 2: simmering for some decades for some of these girls now,
Speaker 2: like Usher. I would say this was like the right
Speaker 2: time for Usher totally, but he could have done it,
Speaker 2: like at any point in the last ten years, probably,
Speaker 2: But I wonder what that math is or what the
Speaker 2: factors are, and I'm like, there's a million decisions that
Speaker 2: go into picking the right person. Yeah, I mean Taylor.
Speaker 2: She you want to talk about Taylor now or doing it?
Speaker 1: I guess my thing is like the thing about Miley
Speaker 1: and Dua there is It's like Doua's basically a cheerleader.
Speaker 1: She puts on a great show, and she has enough
Speaker 1: hits that are like mainstream big hits that everyone knows
Speaker 1: where they could keep coming and it will be a
Speaker 1: really fun show and you kind of can sing in
Speaker 1: your mind's eye what that would be. And then Miley
Speaker 1: is just such a huge name and does have the
Speaker 1: big songs. I do think that there's an argument to
Speaker 1: be made about like letting them cook more like you
Speaker 1: were saying, because we were saying, like, you know, after
Speaker 1: like another album or two, both of them are like
Speaker 1: no brainers. But I was just thinking, like what would
Speaker 1: what would I want to see? I feel like the
Speaker 1: rubric is the person has to be huge enough where
Speaker 1: at every Super Bowl party, everyone's gonna say, oh, so
Speaker 1: and so is doing the game, and we all know
Speaker 1: who that is. No one has to be explained who
Speaker 1: Beyonce is. No one has to be explained who Lady
Speaker 1: Gaga is. It's that same thing. So that's one tier,
Speaker 1: and then then other tier is that person has to
Speaker 1: be willing and able to do the work to put
Speaker 1: on that good and that level quality of a show.
Speaker 1: And so those are the two things. And also in
Speaker 1: that second thing, it's like wanting to do that, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like like I don't know if
Speaker 1: someone like Mariah Carey would want to do that, because
Speaker 1: it's a lot of pressure. Do you think Ario, I
Speaker 1: don't would want to do the Super Bowl? I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, it's a lot of pressure. My gud is
Speaker 2: telling me not anytime soon. But I would have to
Speaker 2: ask the girl, and I don't want to bother her
Speaker 2: with that kind of question.
Speaker 1: Well, Collor, you guys met during the Wicked trailer. No,
Speaker 1: bo Ariana met during the making of the Wicked trailer.
Speaker 1: The making of the Wicked trailer. Yeah, you guys made
Speaker 1: that great trailer that showed during the Super Bowl.
Speaker 2: But we met during the making. All you're saying we
Speaker 2: met the circumstances of our meeting. Of our first meeting
Speaker 2: was for the making of the Wicked trailer, but just
Speaker 2: the trailer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys have been shooting the Wicked trailer for
Speaker 1: a couple of years now. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I can't wait to do the movie at some point.
Speaker 2: I think that'll be really fun.
Speaker 1: Congrats grad on the Wicked trailer. I mean, blink and
Speaker 1: you'll miss me. Yeah, but you know what, guess what
Speaker 1: you know who noticed you? Meme creators and that's all matters.
Speaker 1: They got you, They got you turning around and they said,
Speaker 1: but when you really gave that gay gaze, listen, he
Speaker 1: turned around like like a fag and should I mean,
Speaker 1: everyone get ready, I'm really showing my range. I'm playing
Speaker 1: a gay guy, but you know I'm playing a hater
Speaker 1: for the first time. Oh my god. Wait, thank you
Speaker 1: for that. You made a distinction. He's not just any
Speaker 1: gay guy. Fanny is a read the discourse. Honey, girl,
Speaker 1: you want to do some Uh.
Speaker 2: I've been researching. I've been researching. No, this guy sucks
Speaker 2: and frankly is a racist.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: He sees a green person and he goes, I'm going
Speaker 2: to fucking ruin that person's life.
Speaker 1: Wow. You had to go to the depths of really,
Speaker 1: you had to go to the most disgusting part of
Speaker 1: yourself and reach deep down in order to play Fanny
Speaker 1: in this film Wicked trailer, the trailer, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: the trailer.
Speaker 2: I will say, the discussions going into Fanny, like John
Speaker 2: Mshu God bless him is a director down no small parts,
Speaker 2: is like, let's sit down and talk about Fanny and
Speaker 2: GHENTI yeah. And then me and Brahmin were like absolutely,
Speaker 2: And then Ari was there and then we all the
Speaker 2: four of us like talked about these people, and I
Speaker 2: think we arrived at something really interesting And I can't
Speaker 2: wait for you guys to see.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see like what happened when you
Speaker 1: guys really sat down and put Benza paper and said,
Speaker 1: who's a crazy sycophantic, racist gig guy in this world?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Like, and his name is Fanny?
Speaker 1: Like me? Is that? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah it looks good girl. I love the train.
Speaker 1: The train absolutely. The train was a huge moment. Now
Speaker 1: what do you think of this?
Speaker 2: Some people pointed out that they made that bitch Dorothy
Speaker 2: walk when they had trains the whole time to the
Speaker 2: Emerald City. What do you make of that?
Speaker 1: I think they lied to Dorothy several times about what
Speaker 1: she was capable of. What she could do, and I
Speaker 1: think she showed them because can I tell you something,
Speaker 1: Dorothy did it backwards eden heels and it's actually really
Speaker 1: number fifty six. Dorothy Gales was a legend.
Speaker 2: I think Dorothy walked forward and that's a kitten heel, bitch,
Speaker 2: that is not a real full fledged My.
Speaker 1: God, drag her. You're like, my girl, you're a real bootlecker.
Speaker 1: You're like I saw Arianna walking in stilettos on set.
Speaker 1: Dorothy was in a kitten heel. And you said she
Speaker 1: didn't do it backwards. She in fact had a lot
Speaker 1: of friends helping her skip along the way, skip along
Speaker 1: the way.
Speaker 2: She was arm in arm with these fucking freaks. As
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not spoiler alert, it's you know, this
Speaker 2: is wicked. But like Scarecrow and tin Man, they're users.
Speaker 2: They used Dorothy to help Alphaba escape, do you know
Speaker 2: what I mean? Very smart?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think that the manipulation amongst that
Speaker 1: group can only be described as they're definitely in contention
Speaker 1: for traders. Susan God, get get them on the cast.
Speaker 2: Get Scarecrow, Fierro, get Tin Man, fucking boch Yes, get
Speaker 2: them on cast.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, this is the only like real plot
Speaker 1: hole though in Wicked and Wizard of Us to me
Speaker 1: is like Fierro was Scarecrow all along, like make it
Speaker 1: makes sense to me. I'm sorry, girl, I'm out. I'm
Speaker 1: not seeing this girl. Take it up with Gregory maguire.
Speaker 1: He knows I just truth.
Speaker 2: Okay, can I say? Can I reveal? There was one
Speaker 2: set visit where Gregory McGuire caane. It was very exciting.
Speaker 1: I never know if you actually can reveal these things,
Speaker 1: like you're the Can I say, can I reveal? I
Speaker 1: think I'm okay to say this, and then you always
Speaker 1: say absolutely, and then I'm always like so nervous, but
Speaker 1: here you go, I can say this, roll it out,
Speaker 1: say this.
Speaker 2: Gregory Maguire came to set and then I went over
Speaker 2: to say hello to him. He was so nice, and
Speaker 2: then I think, I think this is a lie. And Gregory,
Speaker 2: this is your if you're listening, because this is literally
Speaker 2: what he said, you must confirm. He goes and I
Speaker 2: really enjoy your podcast. I was like, oh, thank you,
Speaker 2: mister McGuire. You think Gregory maguire is a reader Katie
Speaker 2: Publisist finalist, I can't picture him listening to this podcast is.
Speaker 1: A man that is a cultured man.
Speaker 2: Who is I'm gonna say out of the traditional demo
Speaker 2: of this podcast, and I say that with love and
Speaker 2: respect and admiration. But that's Gregory Maguire, one of the
Speaker 2: most successful authors in the last twenty years.
Speaker 1: Boh, and I'm telling you I never put it past
Speaker 1: anyone nowadays. I think everyone listens to this, everyone and
Speaker 1: their mother. I think everyone's at home listening streaming. I
Speaker 1: think that they are absorbing. I think you think maguire
Speaker 1: is listening with Gregory. I think he listens with his mom.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people do. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: that's let me tell you this is huge, this podcast.
Speaker 1: I mean listen and it's a nominee for Best Pop
Speaker 1: Culture Podcast. I thought my Heart Radio Awards, you know,
Speaker 1: like we're here breaking down the latest in pop culture.
Speaker 1: It's us versus Bethany Frankel headline. We are in the
Speaker 1: wrong category here, That's okay.
Speaker 2: Look, they couldn't give it to us every year. We
Speaker 2: were very honored by Podcast of the Year last year.
Speaker 2: And don't forget it, and don't forget it twenty twenty
Speaker 2: three a competitive year.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this is this is a real nail biter. Okay,
Speaker 1: so the Wicked trailer. That was great. I was very excited.
Speaker 1: A lot of people have their favorite images from the
Speaker 1: trailer because you know that something that happens is you know,
Speaker 1: or something will come out and like people will be like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, this and they'll show a picture from
Speaker 1: the trailer. This is sort of main culture. Oh Jonathan
Speaker 1: Bailey like getting his face stroked. I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people are very excited about his face and the
Speaker 1: stroke in question, you know what I mean. People are
Speaker 1: very excited about the final roar of the song, which
Speaker 1: you know, if you were truly like like you know,
Speaker 1: someone scurrying around the internet, you had heard it before
Speaker 1: because it was out there, but to hear it, to
Speaker 1: hear the trailer, oh yeah, that was major. Major.
Speaker 2: Put some sauce on it, texture mm hmm. It was
Speaker 2: really I mean, is it not thrilling? I got goosebumps.
Speaker 2: I'd already heard it, and I got goosebumps when I
Speaker 2: watched the trailer for the first time. They went, wow,
Speaker 2: good job.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: There were at least ten meetings about should we put
Speaker 2: the riff in the trailer? Like I think you got
Speaker 2: to give the riff, give the riff that is that's
Speaker 2: gonna put butts in seats, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: If there was any question about whether there'd be butts
Speaker 1: in seats. I just feel like, you know, it's the trailer,
Speaker 1: it's the Wicked trailer, it's the super Bowl, like we
Speaker 1: know there's going to be that note like, let's hear it.
Speaker 1: And I think it sounded fucking great and it looked thrilling.
Speaker 1: I also I saw some people posting like this was
Speaker 1: my reaction to the Wicked trailer, and like those things
Speaker 1: of like someone taking a video of themselves reacting to it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like what we do? I think it's funny. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm not dragging. I'm not dragging.
Speaker 2: I'm just questioning, like the conventions of this new thing
Speaker 2: where I'm watching me watch, watch me watch, and I go, okay,
Speaker 2: but what can you give me a reason to watch?
Speaker 2: Can I get commentary during? Can I get commentary after?
Speaker 2: Some of these girls are just posting pictures of their
Speaker 2: silent faces, and I go, I'm gonna need a little
Speaker 2: bit more than that.
Speaker 1: That's all.
Speaker 2: I'm not dragging. I'm saying, can we deliver on the promise?
Speaker 2: Of the premise.
Speaker 1: You are. You are a hungry bottom for a take,
Speaker 1: for a dissection. You want to hear the discourse.
Speaker 2: We're putting our necks out every week giving our takes.
Speaker 1: Authenticity is so dangerous and expensive. You know how much
Speaker 1: trouble I could get in for anything? You know, Bowen
Speaker 1: Yang is, He's endangered species out here, an honest public figure.
Speaker 2: Come on, I'm getting in trouble. I'm gonna in trouble everywhere.
Speaker 1: Everywhere you go. Wait, what was it? Oh? So basically
Speaker 1: like people were seen excited to see her in the bubble.
Speaker 1: I was excited to see her in the bubble. We
Speaker 1: saw a lot, We saw a lot of iconography. It
Speaker 1: was a really good trailer and for me, it gave
Speaker 1: a lot love. What else we else is a super
Speaker 1: Bowl moment.
Speaker 2: I would say the homes dot Com commercial starring Dan
Speaker 2: Levy and Heidi Gardner. Yeah, she needed more lines. Give
Speaker 2: Heidi more lines. But you know what, I'm sure she
Speaker 2: and I don't want to speak for her.
Speaker 1: But good job getting the bag. That's That's what I
Speaker 1: consoled myself with the whole time as I sat there
Speaker 1: watching it, and I felt she did enough enough lines
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, at least she got this huge fucking check,
Speaker 1: and really cados to everyone got the big check. I
Speaker 1: just felt, you know, my girl could have been given
Speaker 1: a couple more of the punchlines. Right. What else? Super
Speaker 1: Bowl moment? I didn't watch the game this year, but
Speaker 1: so I for sure did and I was watching it
Speaker 1: at a party where it wasn't like a ton of people,
Speaker 1: so we could watch a lot of the commercials and stuff,
Speaker 1: like we did see the Beyonce commercial in the clean
Speaker 1: and so were you watching when? So you were not watching? Okay,
Speaker 1: so we were watching when she at the end. Let's
Speaker 1: just transition into this now. So we were watching where
Speaker 1: at the end of the commercial. By the way, she
Speaker 1: did a very fun commercial and it was with Tony Hale.
Speaker 1: Surprised to me, I was like, she said yes to this?
Speaker 1: Not only does she say yes, she's drank a Celsius
Speaker 1: for she was excited to act.
Speaker 2: She was excited to act and give comedy. But a
Speaker 2: lot of setups, a lot of costume changes, a lot
Speaker 2: of buy in for her. You had to imagine that
Speaker 2: she I wonder what the convincing was for her to
Speaker 2: be like, sure, I'll put on these pink kitten headphones
Speaker 2: and like type on a little gaming keyboard like Beyonce
Speaker 2: like as an image, as someone who is rightfully protective
Speaker 2: of her image. So I'm like, I want to know
Speaker 2: what that conversation was to be, like be It's gonna
Speaker 2: be really funny and then Tony's gonna come in to
Speaker 2: your left and blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: Anyway, the commercial I did see. I did consume the
Speaker 1: content in the right order, which was saw the Verizon
Speaker 1: commercial on Instagram because I was on Instagram during the game.
Speaker 1: And then she says drop the new music, and I go, what, Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I leapt out of my chair when she said that.
Speaker 1: It was during the Super Bowl, and by the way,
Speaker 1: at that point, the I believe the halftime show had happened,
Speaker 1: and so the game was kind of over for me
Speaker 1: at that point, because I will say the game was
Speaker 1: extremely boring until I guess it got could later. But
Speaker 1: I had sort of bailed at that time because this
Speaker 1: commercial happened and she says they're ready drop the new music.
Speaker 1: So I leap out of my chair. I say what,
Speaker 1: I go to anywhere where. Let's just say someone like
Speaker 1: Taylor would immediately have shit ready, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like you feel like you'd log onto Instagram and like
Speaker 1: it would be there. Beyonce was teasing us a little
Speaker 1: bit because it wasn't immediate that things were upright. It
Speaker 1: became clear in the minutes after that moment what was happening.
Speaker 1: Like in piecemeal, we were truly like ravenous for it.
Speaker 2: What an innovator though, Like she gives us that little
Speaker 2: window where we kind of go into a frenzy.
Speaker 1: Well, I guess the whole commercial was like break the Internet,
Speaker 1: and I was like, Okay, well she just might with
Speaker 1: this one because I'm sure every person who cares is like,
Speaker 1: which that number must register in the millions, must be
Speaker 1: online like trying to figure out what the fuck is
Speaker 1: going on. So then you find out it's the country album.
Speaker 1: She's fully launching us into the era act too. Whether
Speaker 1: it's called Renaissance Act Too or if it's going to
Speaker 1: be like Act to some other name, we don't know.
Speaker 1: We don't know much, but we know more than we
Speaker 1: did March twenty ninth. It is a country album. Two
Speaker 1: songs are out Texas Hold'em and sixteen Carriages Your Thoughts.
Speaker 2: I was driving all day yesterday while you on the
Speaker 2: group chat were popping off with the rest of the
Speaker 2: girls about things, and my thoughts are Sixteen Carriages is
Speaker 2: kind of new ground genre a side, not even genre
Speaker 2: aside Daddy Lessons was kind of like the precursor to
Speaker 2: all this, as we all know. But I think what's
Speaker 2: really interesting is to hear a thing about this time
Speaker 2: in her life in this sort of bittersweet balanced way,
Speaker 2: because either she's talked about her upbringing and like committing
Speaker 2: herself and making the sacrifices to become the star in
Speaker 2: a very bravado braggadocious way, as in like flawless or
Speaker 2: something and the.
Speaker 1: Queen you can't touch me, You've I've been out, Would
Speaker 1: you stop now? Yeah? Like that hell energy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, even like the diva officsoshraphear is like since fifteen
Speaker 2: of my Stiletto's like that kind of thing or sixteen
Speaker 2: I don't know what the exact age is in the song,
Speaker 2: but either it's bravado or it's like pure tragedy, as
Speaker 2: in like a pretty hurts where she's like knocking down
Speaker 2: the trophies, you know, talking about how like you know,
Speaker 2: like the things that we're ingreened in her growing up.
Speaker 2: This sixteen Characters to me feels incredibly like the third option,
Speaker 2: which is it's amazing, it's also terrible. I don't know
Speaker 2: what life I missed. Also, now I can reflect on
Speaker 2: it as a mother, like I've got kids at home
Speaker 2: and I'm overwhelmed overworked as opposed to being underpaid and
Speaker 2: overworked when I was cool, all I.
Speaker 1: Could think about when I first heard sixteen Carriages was
Speaker 1: how incredible this is gonna be live, just like the
Speaker 1: way that everyone's gonna be wailing and swaying to that song.
Speaker 1: Like I just I couldn't be more excited about the
Speaker 1: way these songs, both of them, are gonna play going forward.
Speaker 1: Because I think with Texas Holdham, which I have not
Speaker 1: stopped listening to, is really taken the crown from Single Soon,
Speaker 1: But I have not stopped listening to it because I
Speaker 1: feel like it's like future comfort listening, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like this is going to be one of
Speaker 1: those songs that's I think always gonna feel good and
Speaker 1: it feels really familiar, which I think is fine, And
Speaker 1: it feels like, you know, she put out this country
Speaker 1: song and like she's announcing this country era and so
Speaker 1: a lot of people are having a lot to say
Speaker 1: about like how country it is, or like what it
Speaker 1: means or what it's indicative of. And what I would
Speaker 1: say is I was just like, yes, this is country,
Speaker 1: Like there's really some people out here being audacious enough
Speaker 1: to be like, well, it's not really country, Like I
Speaker 1: get what you're saying, Like it's you know, poppy enough
Speaker 1: to be played on pop radio. Who knows if country
Speaker 1: radio will really embrace it. That has so much more
Speaker 1: to do with whether or not it's appropriate for country radio,
Speaker 1: and so much more to do with bureaucracy and bullshit
Speaker 1: and like the political nature of our times right now.
Speaker 1: What I digress. But for example, if Maren Morris recorded
Speaker 1: this and put it out, you'd be like, Maren Morris
Speaker 1: is back. That would be the headline, Maren Morris is
Speaker 1: back country. Like if Casey put this out, they'd be like, Wow,
Speaker 1: this is the most country Casey album in years. That's
Speaker 1: what they put it out. It would be the whole thing.
Speaker 1: I feel like, because it's Beyonce, it goes through this
Speaker 1: filter of like how can we do right? And that
Speaker 1: is ridiculous, especially when you realize, like who's playing on
Speaker 1: this record, like Raphael Sadiq is on this record, Like
Speaker 1: look at her collaborators, like they all have like roots
Speaker 1: in this music, and like also like black culture has
Speaker 1: roots in this music. I mean, like like this music
Speaker 1: has roots in black culture rather. I mean, it's just
Speaker 1: I understand. And I've engaged with some people who have
Speaker 1: said this thing, like oh, it's not really country. I'm like,
Speaker 1: what are you saying here, because there is that kind
Speaker 1: of country snob that's like, oh, it has to be
Speaker 1: certain instruments, it has to be certain, like you have
Speaker 1: to keep time a certain way, et cetera. I'm like,
Speaker 1: is this a snob thing or is this just like
Speaker 1: a knee jerk cultural reaction? And lo and behold, it
Speaker 1: is a knee jerk cultural reaction. People are like, well,
Speaker 1: she's not even singing about like a dead dog or
Speaker 1: like a tractor. It's like not country. It's like, girl,
Speaker 1: please shut the fuck up. Like I don't think so, honey.
Speaker 1: This idea that a country song can't be about anything.
Speaker 1: Of course, it can be about anything. It's just us
Speaker 1: dial it's a genre.
Speaker 2: Like she sort of sing song about a mom in
Speaker 2: a car accident where the baby's in the backseat or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean Jesus Take the Wheel. They were they
Speaker 1: were looking for Beyonce to do a Jesus Take the
Speaker 1: Wheel cover, and producer Becca says the truth, which is
Speaker 1: real country is about grit and then is one hundred
Speaker 1: percent true. And I think that, Like another thing that's
Speaker 1: annoying is the Pitchfork review for this song, which did
Speaker 1: you read this? Well? No, I just think they have
Speaker 1: to slow their role on this one because they go,
Speaker 1: you know, it is a little weird for Beyonce to
Speaker 1: be singing about like being like down home at a
Speaker 1: dive bar, like you can't really picture her there. It's like, well,
Speaker 1: that's what she did, break my soul. She was like,
Speaker 1: she doesn't have a nine to five stop. It's fine, right,
Speaker 1: And that's I guess the note that they have is
Speaker 1: like Beyonce singing about nine to five is lol. It's like,
Speaker 1: can we just zoom out for a second. Artists don't
Speaker 1: have to be entirely one hundred percent autobiographic or truthful
Speaker 1: in their lear you know what I mean. Like, sometimes
Speaker 1: it's actually the job of an artist of a creator
Speaker 1: to create a fantasy, to create, you know, something livable
Speaker 1: for the people that the music is for, Like music
Speaker 1: is not always for the artists. It's not so they
Speaker 1: can go out on stage and they can live their
Speaker 1: truth every night. Of course that exists, but also music
Speaker 1: is created for the listener, and that's what she is doing,
Speaker 1: and she's about her fans, and she's about that communal experience.
Speaker 1: So to review it in a way that immediately discredits
Speaker 1: her because you can't picture her in that environment, it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: so what do you want Beyonce to sing about? Like
Speaker 1: this weekend, me and Jay hung out with a lot
Speaker 1: of our friends, A lot of them are venture capitalists
Speaker 1: and the Hamptons, Like, I don't think we want that
Speaker 1: song everybody. I think I think it's okay that we're
Speaker 1: singing about like Beyonce having a fucking baller time, whether
Speaker 1: it's you know, the dance floor in a house sense
Speaker 1: or like the dive bar in a country sense, Like
Speaker 1: we should just be excited that Beyonce, who's prodigiously genius
Speaker 1: musical talent, is giving this kind of thing for everyone
Speaker 1: to embody and enjoy. It just feels like a really bizarre,
Speaker 1: bad faith criticism of her that really only she and
Speaker 1: people on her level would get anyway, Can I tell
Speaker 1: you something I don't want? She cares well if people
Speaker 1: are like gay.
Speaker 2: Keeping country, But I want to talk about the live
Speaker 2: aspect of what this album will be, which is I
Speaker 2: think you pointed this out offline, not picturing stadium tour.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be a sphere residency or something where it's like.
Speaker 1: We go, well, those rumors are out there.
Speaker 2: Well, I think those are valid rumors, and I think
Speaker 2: that is the setting that makes the most sense for
Speaker 2: an album like this, where it's like she's gonna park
Speaker 2: it in one place and then everyone else is just
Speaker 2: gonna go to her, rather than she's this traveling circus
Speaker 2: going from town to town.
Speaker 1: You know what, I think. I think this is not
Speaker 1: really right because I feel like you are dead on
Speaker 1: about the parking it of it all. But something about
Speaker 1: the sphere, maybe that's like something down the road she's
Speaker 1: thinking like maybe if the third album is a rumored
Speaker 1: like rock album, or it's some sort of thing like
Speaker 1: maybe that's the sphere. Do you think rock album for
Speaker 1: the Sphere? Interested? I think so because that makes a
Speaker 1: lot of sense to me. Whereas this album is so
Speaker 1: like she's she's made so many allusions to like, you know,
Speaker 1: obviously Texas already, and like you know, it feels very
Speaker 1: outdoors to me, Like it feels very like I can
Speaker 1: see this taking place outside, like it maybe she parks
Speaker 1: it in like Texas somewhere. Maybe she parks it in
Speaker 1: Atlanta somewhere, somewhere where I can feel very truthful to
Speaker 1: the roots of this music and also give that big feeling.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's the sphere. The sphere feels
Speaker 1: very cooped up to me, which obviously feels odd to
Speaker 1: say it, because you can create anything in there. But
Speaker 1: I just feel like I hear this music and I
Speaker 1: want to be outside. You think it's going to be
Speaker 1: like a lover fest situation, I do the festival that
Speaker 1: never was. I think Beyonce saw a lover fest and
Speaker 1: was like, well, start the pandemic now, because we need
Speaker 1: to make sure that's my idea. I think Beyonce Beyonce
Speaker 1: started the pandemic. I started the pandemic. Wow, mess up
Speaker 1: the five G poles. Yeah, she said, hit the button.
Speaker 1: Hit the button. She's an illuminati. Go well, that that's
Speaker 1: a really interesting I think you're right about that about
Speaker 1: the outdoor of it.
Speaker 2: All sure, totally after Renaissance Act one. I think she's like,
Speaker 2: I don't want to tour again for a minute. I
Speaker 2: want to stay in one place. I'm sick of these planes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's weird, like to contrast her with Taylor, who
Speaker 1: I guess is just going to keep on doing this show.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, I guess all we're getting from
Speaker 1: Taylor is the one new era, and she's going to
Speaker 1: keep doing the show, whereas Beyonce feels now completely moved
Speaker 1: on from Renaissance Act one. And this is sort of
Speaker 1: what I was saying about seeing Renaissance in concert, was
Speaker 1: it felt like this was just the chapter, whereas Eras
Speaker 1: felt very cumulative, cumulative, excuse me, And I feel like
Speaker 1: that's proven to be true. Like will Beyonce do the
Speaker 1: same thing? Will she park it? We don't know, but
Speaker 1: either way it's going to be like a very very
Speaker 1: exciting new era. Becca has said if you saw any
Speaker 1: of her content of her being in Houston for the
Speaker 1: Renaissance tour where she was eating fried chicken from a
Speaker 1: local shop, Lol, Real Country is about grit. Oh Okay,
Speaker 1: so she's commenting on the grit of it all.
Speaker 2: I think that was in response to like she wouldn't
Speaker 2: go to a dive bar oh oh, which not to
Speaker 2: compare them again, but if Taylor can write songs outside
Speaker 2: of her own experience and filter it through like a character,
Speaker 2: let's say, I don't really understand that argument that like
Speaker 2: Beyonce has to authentically write to her own life. So yeah,
Speaker 2: authenticity is dangerous and expensive and unreasonably applied.
Speaker 1: I think there is an over analysis of these people
Speaker 1: in a way that's getting annoying and also is causing
Speaker 1: us to really spin our wheels. And I don't think
Speaker 1: it's necessarily our fault, like this thing about like, well,
Speaker 1: what's the truth, what's real? Et cetera. It comes from
Speaker 1: the fact that it feels like there are very few
Speaker 1: very famous people right now, and I think obviously like
Speaker 1: that's always led to, like, at least on their part,
Speaker 1: like a fear of oversaturation, right Like I feel like
Speaker 1: Taylor in the past has been very conscious about oversaturating,
Speaker 1: but it feels like that consciousness is not active right now.
Speaker 1: I think they're like the only famous people in the world,
Speaker 1: and that is leading to this fervor and discussion on them,
Speaker 1: which is ultimately gonna make us all crazy because it
Speaker 1: can't all be rooted in like truth or actual like
Speaker 1: what's really going on here?
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, right, Like, even all the
Speaker 2: videos coming out of like Taylor and Travis after the
Speaker 2: game making out at a party, I'm like, I'm very
Speaker 2: valerie cherished about this. I'm like, I don't really.
Speaker 1: Want to see that. I don't want to see that,
Speaker 1: you know, not out of a distaste for either of them,
Speaker 1: out of like a that shouldn't be for us. There
Speaker 1: is too much available to us right now, and I
Speaker 1: think that is okay. This is my honest opinion about it.
Speaker 1: I'm super excited about Tortured Poet's department as a fan
Speaker 1: of her music, I will say, it's a lot. It's
Speaker 1: the super Bowl, it's football at large. It's a new album,
Speaker 1: it's every old album. It's Capitalism, it's the Jets, it's
Speaker 1: the Bonuses, it's the economy.
Speaker 3: It's this, it's that. It's Travis, It's Joe, it's Japan,
Speaker 3: it's everywhere in the world. It's Kelly Teller, it's Lana,
Speaker 3: it's Ice.
Speaker 1: It's it's too much, and I think that it needs
Speaker 1: to well. I don't even know if it needs to
Speaker 1: slow down at this point because it doesn't feel like
Speaker 1: that's going to happen because we're about to get a
Speaker 1: new album and that's gonna be everywhere. I think it's
Speaker 1: probably good that so many of the girls are going
Speaker 1: to be releasing albums and there's going to be a
Speaker 1: lot going on, but with the tailor of it all,
Speaker 1: it almost just feels like the valve has not been released. Right.
Speaker 1: Then you have to think is it on purpose? Like
Speaker 1: is it a conscious like total media takeover because she's
Speaker 1: aware of it. I mean, like she knows what happens
Speaker 1: when she goes to the Super Bowl and it ends
Speaker 1: up being the most watched telecast of all time. Like
Speaker 1: it's so much to the point where I'm like, is
Speaker 1: it a conscious oversaturation to launch herself into the rebirth
Speaker 1: of the reputation era? I wonder then I think, am
Speaker 1: I insane for thinking it's that calculated? I think, well,
Speaker 1: not really, because this is the world we're living in
Speaker 1: and like this is it's the literally the narrative.
Speaker 2: I don't think she wants to recreate the road to
Speaker 2: reputation necessarily, yeah, because that would mean that she would
Speaker 2: have to be taken completely down again, which I don't think.
Speaker 1: But what does she think is going to happen at
Speaker 1: this level of fame? What does she think is the
Speaker 1: positive step from this? I guess that's my question, Like
Speaker 1: how exactly? And can I say the only reason I'm
Speaker 1: starting to call it out is because I started to
Speaker 1: recognize something unhealthy with the Travis and Taylor of it all.
Speaker 1: Because I remember there was a time in my life
Speaker 1: where I felt like I was at a ten and
Speaker 1: someone else was at a ten, and all of a
Speaker 1: sudden it got out of control. And then all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, you're not at the super Bowl anymore, and
Speaker 1: you're not at the aerostoor anymore. Like, and what exactly
Speaker 1: happens in the months going forward? Because it feels like
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you know, coming up for air here. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's very exciting to watch this, and they seem very
Speaker 1: in love, and I don't have any doubts that they
Speaker 1: are extremely in love. But is this all healthy? Is
Speaker 1: this all sustainable? Well?
Speaker 2: I mean that kind of applies in all directions. I
Speaker 2: think there's no way out of them for this.
Speaker 1: If they met each other and fell in fucking love
Speaker 1: and it just so happens to me that they are
Speaker 1: the two most famous people in the world at this point.
Speaker 1: He's winning the Super Bowl, She's Taylor Swift. You get it,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like you see them kiss
Speaker 1: and stuff, and you see all the coverage of them,
Speaker 1: and it looks like, Wow, look at them on top
Speaker 1: of the world, living their best life. I guess I'm
Speaker 1: just saying, you know, in her own words, nothing good
Speaker 1: starts in a getaway car. I do wonder about the
Speaker 1: fact that, like the Joe thing is just fully over,
Speaker 1: like this was the love of her life like two
Speaker 1: seconds ago. Like maybe it doesn't feel that recent because
Speaker 1: we move on so quickly, but like for years this
Speaker 1: was the love of her life. And now it's like,
Speaker 1: what about the relationship that she just had for a
Speaker 1: long time? Like are we not respecting that? Like are
Speaker 1: we actually doing the thing where we're now in another
Speaker 1: album cycle that's like not even just about or inspired
Speaker 1: by that relationship, but deliberately manipulates and not to be
Speaker 1: like oh tailor you know, because I'm excited about what's
Speaker 1: going to be created for it. I just question whether
Speaker 1: or not all of this is healthy because of how
Speaker 1: big it is. I don't know if it's sustainable for
Speaker 1: a human being, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's nothing in the the evolutionary human brain to
Speaker 2: like deal with this. It's just completely overwhelming and beyond
Speaker 2: any understanding. It's really weird. We're it a really weird
Speaker 2: time in the culture because I guess you could say
Speaker 2: that monoculture is back now with this, like in the
Speaker 2: last like ever since they started dating. I would say,
Speaker 2: we've had one thing to talk about this entire time.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: And maybe that's what the grip is on, like don't
Speaker 2: let this go away. We don't know when we're going
Speaker 2: to get this back.
Speaker 1: They are being talked about like a concept and not
Speaker 1: as human beings. I guess this is my thing, And ultimately, like, yes,
Speaker 1: I understand all that because we talk about pop culture,
Speaker 1: et cetera. We get the way that these things get
Speaker 1: filtered down to be something that can be like applied
Speaker 1: in the discourse. But I guess what I'm noticing, and
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to remember more is that they are
Speaker 1: human beings and so they're going to hit a wall
Speaker 1: on this. I'm just concerned about, like what happens when
Speaker 1: people catch up with their feelings and catch up with
Speaker 1: themselves because they're operating at a fifteen right now and
Speaker 1: everyone in the world is talking about them. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: just gives me a little bit of pause because I
Speaker 1: think I've been through certain things now where I realize
Speaker 1: like what happens when you're operating at a high vibration
Speaker 1: and then you have to come back And I just
Speaker 1: wonder how that feels or is going to feel for
Speaker 1: them and for the people in their life, because it
Speaker 1: literally can't get more exciting than the other day, like
Speaker 1: that is now done for some reason.
Speaker 2: Both of their moms being there really was sobering to me. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean it was sweet.
Speaker 1: It It's nice. I love that like they were with
Speaker 1: their family. Yeah, Travis Kelsey's mom is very grounding as
Speaker 1: a present, and I would say Taylor's mom Taylor's parents,
Speaker 1: And so I don't know if that makes me feel
Speaker 1: better or worse about the whole situation. And I'm like, well, she.
Speaker 2: Has they have people who have known them for their
Speaker 2: whole lives with them to like check it against their
Speaker 2: history and their lives. But at the same time, it
Speaker 2: seems like the current and is so strong that everyone
Speaker 2: is getting swept up in it.
Speaker 1: That's what I was about to say, Like those people
Speaker 1: are also operating in that environment. Yeah, you know what
Speaker 1: we have to check in with is Ice Spice. We
Speaker 1: got to check in with Ice Spice because I bet
Speaker 1: she has the She she's got the clear. By the way,
Speaker 1: they're saying, she was the reason for the radio they're
Speaker 1: calling it the Spicy Bowl. They're saying this was the
Speaker 1: reason for the more people watch this than the moonlanding.
Speaker 1: It because of Ice Spice. Absolutely. Well, you know I
Speaker 1: heard that Ice Spice is staged. I heard that Ice
Speaker 1: Spice isn't real. No, no, no, I think she's real.
Speaker 2: But I think she was in a sound stage and
Speaker 2: then in Long Island and then they just kind of
Speaker 2: like green keyed her in.
Speaker 1: They put her in after Yeah, it was all fake.
Speaker 1: It was all fake. But you know, we're got a
Speaker 1: new music from Taylor. Can we talk about the titles
Speaker 1: really quickly? Of the songs, I'm interested to see what
Speaker 1: they sound like. But some of the titles, I go,
Speaker 1: you know what is ultimately a product of the current time,
Speaker 1: which is sort of beautiful and sort of the reason
Speaker 1: for her appeal, right, But if like.
Speaker 2: For songs that are like LML down bad, but Daddy,
Speaker 2: I love him. I'm like, there's something consciously Internet coded
Speaker 2: about this. Yeah, and I wonder, I wonder if it
Speaker 2: pays off, because these are some big swings as far
Speaker 2: as names go, names of your songs. Whereas I think
Speaker 2: she's avoided, she's been able to sort of like operate
Speaker 2: outside of like a timeliness, and that's what makes her
Speaker 2: time less, That's what makes a lot of her music endure.
Speaker 2: This is I think, a departure from that. And I
Speaker 2: think I have to imagine it's conscious. I have to
Speaker 2: imagine she made that choice. But I hope for everyone.
Speaker 2: But it's like, it better be good, is all I'm saying,
Speaker 2: and I'm sure it will be. I think it's gonna
Speaker 2: be very good because it's tailor swift. If I'm to
Speaker 2: gauge something from the visual in terms of like what
Speaker 2: I think this might sound like, you know what the
Speaker 2: visuals are giving to me. The visuals are giving to
Speaker 2: me very like mid nineties like almost adult contemporary vibes.
Speaker 2: Like it's sort of giving me like Madonna bedtime stories.
Speaker 2: It's sort of giving me like, well, I don't know
Speaker 2: why am I getting like Paula Cole from it, like
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, like a very sort of
Speaker 2: adult contemporary like almost like like the way that she's
Speaker 2: like draped like it's something mid nineties. To me, it's
Speaker 2: feeling like Annie Lennoxy. That's the vibe I'm feeling from it.
Speaker 1: I don't know beyond that, like maybe it's gonna be
Speaker 1: very like you know, lyrical, and like maybe it'll feel
Speaker 1: very ballady. I don't know, because the images I'm seeing
Speaker 1: are contrasting with the very contemporary titles. But yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's an interesting thing to see her enter into the
Speaker 1: cannon anything now because she's now she's ridden the eras thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that now when she's creating a new album, she's
Speaker 1: really creating a new era. And so you have to
Speaker 1: look at these visuals like a world that we're going
Speaker 1: to live in. You know what I'm saying. It's like
Speaker 1: because that's her whole thing. And so when I'm looking
Speaker 1: at esthetically what we're getting from this, it feels like
Speaker 1: we're getting like mature woman confessional songs. Maybe we hear
Speaker 1: her sing with her chest a little bit more this time.
Speaker 1: That's like just a vibe I'm getting it's giving sort
Speaker 1: of woman of the nineties adult contemporary singer. That's what
Speaker 1: I hope for Anyway.
Speaker 2: I love that there are a couple ways for this
Speaker 2: to go in terms of the live piece, which is
Speaker 2: for now, this is what's happening, is that that's going
Speaker 2: to get absorbed into the era's sort of like structure.
Speaker 2: I'm really interested to see her for album twelve. Let's say,
Speaker 2: is it still going to be the Eras tour or
Speaker 2: is she going to do like the album twelve you
Speaker 2: know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a weird one. Also, like her music is
Speaker 1: fully gonna be out when she's still doing this tour,
Speaker 1: so she has to do the new music, right, Like
Speaker 1: is that an added era? Yeah? I think so wow.
Speaker 2: I think it's gonna be after midnights or so well
Speaker 2: be like they're better be closers, you know what I
Speaker 2: mean on this album, because I think she has to
Speaker 2: end the whole show with it.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. It's like she's not just putting
Speaker 1: this album out. She's putting this album out at this
Speaker 1: moment in the tableau of the rest of her work. Yes,
Speaker 1: And I think that will say a lot about like
Speaker 1: where we're at exactly you know what I mean? Like
Speaker 1: also not for nothing, but I should just trademark not
Speaker 1: for nothing, as that comes out of my mouth for
Speaker 1: the fucking billionth time. But she's also gonna have a
Speaker 1: lot of other music around her that the girls are releasing,
Speaker 1: like the new Ari will be out now we know
Speaker 1: the new Beyonce. They will be out, and I would
Speaker 1: imagine Dua's coming, Casey Miles Graves will have an album out.
Speaker 1: There's someone else too, Tylay.
Speaker 2: Everyone's sleeping on, not everyone sleeping on if everyone obviously
Speaker 2: knows water, but like, listen to the other songs on
Speaker 2: the album. That is a great fucking album so far,
Speaker 2: so far. Anyway, Charlie's working on new stuff. God, I
Speaker 2: was working on new stuff. I think twenty twenty four
Speaker 2: is where the girls are all dumping their shit, which
Speaker 2: I have no problem with.
Speaker 1: And Katie Perry has quit American Idol and said she's
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts as a huge now you have
Speaker 1: a special connection to Katie. Love Katie. I always root
Speaker 1: for Katie. I feel like never really over was what
Speaker 1: she should be doing. I want to hear Katie give
Speaker 1: the delicious hooks. I want to hear Katie be big
Speaker 1: and stupid. That's what I love from Katie Perry, big
Speaker 1: and stupid. Like what is it? Fast and loud? That's
Speaker 1: what I want from Katie Perry to put it in
Speaker 1: the words of you and Tina Fey. Fast and loud, Katie,
Speaker 1: it always works. The thing I'm most excited about is Beyonce.
Speaker 1: I mean, we had been hearing about the country album.
Speaker 1: I think it feels so right. I love the way
Speaker 1: her voice sounds on this. Just to like hear her
Speaker 1: little stacked harmony is or her gorgeous voice over this
Speaker 1: type of music. It's gonna be so evocative. It's gonna
Speaker 1: tell stories like which she's so good at. I'm so
Speaker 1: excited to see how this plays altogether. I'm really thrilled
Speaker 1: that it looks like she's pretty much you know, visual forward,
Speaker 1: Like right off the top, it feels like her approach
Speaker 1: to this is very different than the last album. It
Speaker 1: feels like if this is going to be part of
Speaker 1: a real trilogy, that's very exciting for whatever the third
Speaker 1: thing is. You know, we're living in a really, really
Speaker 1: fun time for Beyonce. And I will also say she
Speaker 1: looks unbelievable, like her blonde wigs, Like, I don't know
Speaker 1: if you saw they cut to her at the game.
Speaker 1: You didn't see, you didn't watch. I did. She looked
Speaker 1: so unbelievably beautiful. And just the fact that Beyonce is
Speaker 1: gonna be giving blonde country singer wearing her boy's jewelry,
Speaker 1: I go, bitch, I love it. I love it, I
Speaker 1: love it. And I loved her sort of tipping the
Speaker 1: hat as it were at the Grammy's. She looked great.
Speaker 1: She was on a fucking twenty milligram edible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was on another planet in a very unseubtle look.
Speaker 2: I mean we should have known.
Speaker 1: I feel like yeah. But also it was smarter for
Speaker 1: her to sort of build all that into the original
Speaker 1: Renaissance imagery too, because you're not really sure, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like it's like, okay, so are you
Speaker 1: just sort of doing a version of what you've been
Speaker 1: doing for Renaissance with this cowboy dance floor moment or
Speaker 1: are we actually entering a new era? And it was
Speaker 1: squarely the latter, you know, I.
Speaker 2: Think the fact three is rock. I feel like horses
Speaker 2: are that animal Horses work in any genre, Yes they do,
Speaker 2: and that's for the culture.
Speaker 1: Number four. Yeah, genre and you know, happy Lunar New Year,
Speaker 1: by the way to everybody, Yeah you lunatics, you lunatics.
Speaker 1: I had deep conversations about the Chinese zodiac animals with
Speaker 1: some friends at Bubble Tea, New York.
Speaker 2: Well for my horses out there. I was talking about Whittaker,
Speaker 2: our friend, Matt Whittaker. He was a horse who wanted
Speaker 2: to be a dragon growing up.
Speaker 1: This is so beautiful. It doesn't sound like a little
Speaker 1: children's book. You know, our friend, he was a horse
Speaker 1: who wanted to wanted to be a dragon.
Speaker 2: But horses, I was just ingrained from birth, from my
Speaker 2: mother who loves this, and from the Chinese culture that
Speaker 2: loves this, like horses are a noble animal, and horses endure,
Speaker 2: and horses know how to be still in between moments
Speaker 2: of movement and like action and like activation, like horses are.
Speaker 2: I'm not a horse girl. I've had close calls on horses.
Speaker 2: I don't love interacting with them necessarily. You've had close
Speaker 2: calls on Oh yes, I've talked about Iceland. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: you've spoken on this the drone, the drone spooked it.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, I've spoken about this. But Anyway, the
Speaker 2: horse imagery that Beyonce is working with I think is
Speaker 2: very special and very intentional, and I think for that
Speaker 2: to be the through line potentially in these albums is
Speaker 2: gorgeous to me.
Speaker 1: I think love. Uh now, let's just talk about what
Speaker 1: possibly could happen on this album. Do you think rape
Speaker 1: El Sadik? Wait, that's amazing that this is used to me.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, by the way, everyone, Oh my god, rathel
Speaker 1: Sidik's old stuff. I mean not old stuff, but like
Speaker 1: just all of his work so good. We were we
Speaker 1: going to say, what is going to happen on this album?
Speaker 1: And you were going to put out something? Oh, I
Speaker 1: was going to say, you know, will we see the
Speaker 1: return of the Pussy Wagon? Oh? You think Gaga is
Speaker 1: going to be on this? I'm just saying Beyonce said
Speaker 1: to be continued and Gaga said to be continued, and
Speaker 1: it was never continued. And you have to imagine if
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a moment for that. Should Joanne return?
Speaker 1: Should should Joanne return to ride off with Beyonce into
Speaker 1: the sunset on the Pussy Wagon? Like? Should we see
Speaker 1: in a sense act two of that? Ah?
Speaker 2: Well, you know the video after Telephone that jonas Akerlind
Speaker 2: directed with Gaga was for John Wayne. So a lot
Speaker 2: of little monsters feel that John Wayne is the spiritual
Speaker 2: successor to Telephone in that she even like she's in
Speaker 2: the sort of like million reasons paining kick get up,
Speaker 2: and then like she like hitchhikes and gets into a
Speaker 2: car and then like the whole John Wayne saga starts.
Speaker 2: By the way, such an underrated video.
Speaker 1: Oh, don't even get me stressing, don't even get me
Speaker 1: started on John Wayne. John Wayne is disrespected, disregarded and disinconstantly.
Speaker 2: And guys, John Wayne is sitting right there. We're all
Speaker 2: losing our minds overact to Renaissance. Listen to John Wayne
Speaker 2: and go to church.
Speaker 1: I just love John Wayne. I love John Wayne and
Speaker 1: the video. You're right, the video was completely insane. When
Speaker 1: she was riding on that horse, by the way, the
Speaker 1: horse returns and she hits that tree branch. I said,
Speaker 1: my comedy gold, I said, Bridesmaids, Bridesmaids.
Speaker 2: So I don't know about this pussy wagon return, but
Speaker 2: that's so interesting the girls are talking about this.
Speaker 1: I would disagree that John Wayne is the successor to
Speaker 1: tell Telephone, because they would have made it seem like
Speaker 1: it was a continuation, like there would have been some
Speaker 1: intentionality there.
Speaker 2: The way that like the way that like the way
Speaker 2: that whole Gaga in jail thing plays at the beginning
Speaker 2: of Telephone as a continuation of Paparazzi.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just feel like we would have we would
Speaker 1: have gotten something from it that like that like suggests
Speaker 1: that it was a continuation of that narrative outside of
Speaker 1: just being directed by the same person and having the
Speaker 1: same whimsy. Like if we're going going to see in
Speaker 1: that two of that, I think it's gonna have Beyonce,
Speaker 1: and I think it's gonna be very clear that it's
Speaker 1: like the continuation of sequel to culmination of that story.
Speaker 1: By the way, can we talk really quickly about Gaga
Speaker 1: at the super Bowl like this past week. I just
Speaker 1: I forget that Gaga at a sports game is such
Speaker 1: a I don't give a fuck vibe. It has been
Speaker 1: for decades at this point. Remember when she was like
Speaker 1: during like the Fame Monster era, she was like at
Speaker 1: Yankee Stadium, like flipping people off, like just not careing.
Speaker 1: She's like, don't she loves sports?
Speaker 2: She doesn't, And she's gonna kick back and she's gonna
Speaker 2: wear something stupid and she's not gonna care.
Speaker 1: And I love that. We need the culture. Really Coachure
Speaker 1: number seventy. Lady loves sports and she's gonna catch to
Speaker 1: give back and she's gonna not gonna care period, But
Speaker 1: like we need we need more of that.
Speaker 2: Like I love seeing the stars out, but all of
Speaker 2: them were like playing for the camera in a way
Speaker 2: that like Gaga wasn't. She was like, I'm gonna put
Speaker 2: on the little eye jewels that like are a reference
Speaker 2: to my super Bowl performance, which we regret. I have
Speaker 2: to take responsibility for this. I did not include in
Speaker 2: my twenty seventeen year coverage.
Speaker 1: Take responsibility for your self self, because no one's gonna
Speaker 1: take responsibility for you. Take you, Tyra.
Speaker 2: But Gaga at the super Bowl loved Okay, So what
Speaker 2: else on Act two I'm open for. I'm just open minded.
Speaker 2: I don't really have expectations in a way that I
Speaker 2: think is not for lack of caring. It's just that
Speaker 2: like I will openly welcome whatever comes.
Speaker 1: Well. Then there was another little rumor floating around that
Speaker 1: maybe Taylor is on this album, or maybe Beyonce is
Speaker 1: a part of reputation and I said, hmm. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I had to say hmm on this one in both directions.
Speaker 2: That doesn't make sense again, like this.
Speaker 1: Narrative that gets out there because it feels like they're
Speaker 1: the only famous people in the world, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like it is exhausting. Sure, well, let's it's
Speaker 1: just not not contribute. Well no, no, no, I was
Speaker 1: just I was gonna say, let's not pay too much
Speaker 1: attention to it. I'm literally looking out at a mountain
Speaker 1: ridge right now, and what everything feels so far away?
Speaker 1: Where are you? I'm upstate, bitch. You didn't tell me
Speaker 1: that you thought this was my room at home. I
Speaker 1: thought you were doing one of your famous vacations at
Speaker 1: like a New York hotel. No, honey, I mean New Pults.
Speaker 1: Are you having a moment, I'm having so far.
Speaker 2: Well, it snowed, and so I want to be on
Speaker 2: hikes and stuff, and oh my god, there was a
Speaker 2: water color class today that got canceled because of the snow.
Speaker 1: You're going to take a water color class. I was
Speaker 1: going to take a water color class and paint flowers. Oh,
Speaker 1: that sounds really good. And every morning you get to
Speaker 1: feed the chickens and the pigs and the sheep here
Speaker 1: and then you get to pick the eggs that you
Speaker 1: want to eat for breakfast. Wait, that is a I'm
Speaker 1: so happy for you. Oh Bowen, that's so great. I
Speaker 1: love that. I love that you went to the woods,
Speaker 1: you went to the mountains picking your eggs. I went
Speaker 1: so egg and the I just like my body immediately
Speaker 1: gave out it. I was like, oh my god, here's
Speaker 1: what you do. Everyone.
Speaker 2: If you want to scratch this itch of like seems
Speaker 2: like we're getting back into like cabin cabin tunes, maybe
Speaker 2: go to Waxahachie.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: Listen to her new songboard, listen to right back to it,
Speaker 2: listen to her old stuff. I mean, you're gonna get
Speaker 2: what you want and the totality of Waxa Hatchi's discography.
Speaker 2: You're gonna find something you like. I guarantee you're gonna
Speaker 2: like to hear you go. My therapist said this to me.
Speaker 2: We were talking about like internet discourse, right and specifically
Speaker 2: like in the way that like you might have a
Speaker 2: moment of vanity or vulnerability and like see what people
Speaker 2: are saying about you. And we don't have to get
Speaker 2: too much into this, but this is what he said
Speaker 2: to me. I'm flipping to it because I wrote it
Speaker 2: down because it fucking blew my mind in the totality
Speaker 2: of what people are thinking, you can always find what
Speaker 2: you're looking for.
Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Not? Really? Can you?
Speaker 2: Like you go on Google and like see what people
Speaker 2: are saying about one person, or let's say yourself, or
Speaker 2: you go on Twitter and if you have a name
Speaker 2: that you can like search such as mine or yours,
Speaker 2: let's say, and see what people are saying about you.
Speaker 2: At some point you'll find exactly what your brain secretly
Speaker 2: wants to find.
Speaker 1: Oh, I get that. Okay. So if you want to feel,
Speaker 1: if you want to punish yourself, if you look hard
Speaker 1: enough or sometimes not even hard enough, like enough, got it? Okay.
Speaker 1: So it's all about like taking the onus away from
Speaker 1: needing that search.
Speaker 2: It just means that it's all meaningless. It really is meaningless.
Speaker 2: Can we talk about feud Capodi versus the Swans?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I wish it was better.
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily want to talk about the show. But
Speaker 2: what I the rabbit hole that I fell into was
Speaker 2: like reading up on the journalism of it, and like
Speaker 2: they did a whole piece in twenty twelve and anity
Speaker 2: Fair about like where the manuscript is for answered prayers
Speaker 2: and his relationship with like Lee Radsville and Jackie Kennedy,
Speaker 2: and like it's so interesting that is like that's what
Speaker 2: we're missing, that this is what's happening in culture. This
Speaker 2: is what I thought about. Like there's no distinction or
Speaker 2: difference between like high society in the way that like
Speaker 2: the rest of the culture is fascinated by these people
Speaker 2: at the top and what their behavior is and what
Speaker 2: they're doing and what their dirty secrets are with entertainment
Speaker 2: and like things in the pop culture, because we conflate
Speaker 2: those two now in a way that we're like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: high society is let's say the met gala where all
Speaker 2: the celebrities go, and like high society in the U
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four or is like the Kardashians, because we
Speaker 2: don't really care, Like the way billionaires are acting is
Speaker 2: kind of too dark to think about and too crazy,
Speaker 2: so let's just focus on like these famous people who
Speaker 2: are like very much entrenched in media, and therefore there
Speaker 2: is like less of a like fascination. The fascination is
Speaker 2: just a little bit more informed as opposed to like
Speaker 2: the days of Truman Capodi in the sixties and seventies,
Speaker 2: where like him dropping this Esquire article was like explosive.
Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Yeah? And I actually think it's
Speaker 1: kind of showing up in the content of the series
Speaker 1: in a way that I don't think is necessarily good
Speaker 1: because I think that there's actually not that much of
Speaker 1: a feud here, right. I think what happened was this
Speaker 1: man befriended these women, he was awful, he wrote about them,
Speaker 1: and then they never spoke to him again, and there's
Speaker 1: not a feud there, like, and I think that like
Speaker 1: what you're saying about, like the fascination of that is like, yes,
Speaker 1: very important, like in the culture and like it probably
Speaker 1: felt ripe, but it's actually not that much. There's just
Speaker 1: not that much there. And I feel like with Betty
Speaker 1: and Joan, there was actually a genuine feud there. There
Speaker 1: was stretched on for years in years, there was a
Speaker 1: lot to follow, Whereas I almost think that feud Capodi
Speaker 1: versus the Swans would be stronger if it was like
Speaker 1: Truman Capodi and Babe Paley and we just focused on
Speaker 1: one dynamic because I feel like it's over promising and
Speaker 1: saying like you're gonna watch this juicy show with all
Speaker 1: of these women when there's not that much juice there. Yes,
Speaker 1: they were all dynamic people. They were all interesting, fascinating
Speaker 1: people that had scandal, but ultimately this dynamic which is
Speaker 1: Capodi and them, like at least the three episodes at
Speaker 1: this point, like, it doesn't feel like there is a
Speaker 1: lot there when you compare it.
Speaker 2: I think it's going to do what Feud Betty versus
Speaker 2: Joan ended up doing, which was these two women really
Speaker 2: missed out on a friendship, didn't they, you know, And
Speaker 2: I think it's going to try to do that with
Speaker 2: Babe Paley and Truman Capodi by the time like when
Speaker 2: he passes away.
Speaker 1: Yet I'm sure that you're right, but I wonder if
Speaker 1: it's going to be super successful because the thing about
Speaker 1: Feud Betty and Joan is they weren't able to flesh
Speaker 1: them out enough where you realize they had so much
Speaker 1: more in common than they had in terms of differences,
Speaker 1: and it was really society and the entertainment industry and
Speaker 1: their specific situation and the fascination with the idea that
Speaker 1: women must war if they're equals that tore them apart.
Speaker 1: Whereas like, I'm not seeing exactly what that parallel is
Speaker 1: with this because Truman Capodi is truly just awful, and
Speaker 1: there are so many women that are on the other
Speaker 1: side of this conflict that are not all grounded and
Speaker 1: based in this experience with him, and so it's becoming
Speaker 1: a little bit more difficult to see exactly what the
Speaker 1: story that's being told is and exactly what the conflict
Speaker 1: is between them and him, because it's they're all different,
Speaker 1: and therefore, in trying to give all the women like
Speaker 1: equal time, in a way, we're losing a central conflict.
Speaker 2: Yes, I agree, I think the thing that binds these
Speaker 2: people together is well for Truman.
Speaker 1: I think I think this is hopefully.
Speaker 2: What I don't think the show is making clear yet
Speaker 2: is why Truman is obsessed with these women, which is
Speaker 2: because he sees a parallel in them, where he's this
Speaker 2: boy from the South who like made his way to
Speaker 2: the top infiltrated high society much in the same way
Speaker 2: that like hollygool Lightly did. Like hollyga Lightly was written
Speaker 2: as based on women like Slim Keith, like Babe Pailey,
Speaker 2: like CAZy Guests and Woodword, particularly where these women from
Speaker 2: the South who came from nothing ascended all the way
Speaker 2: to the top in this very American dream way, right,
Speaker 2: And I think that is sort of the poetic, sort
Speaker 2: of powerful, narratively interesting thing that I don't think the
Speaker 2: show is really shining enough of a light on.
Speaker 1: I have hope that it will, because I think that
Speaker 1: it has to like this idea that like, well, you
Speaker 1: guys did whatever you had to do to get here,
Speaker 1: I'm doing whatever I had to do, Like you love
Speaker 1: me because of my ability to tell stories and my
Speaker 1: ability to entertain and my ability to really key in
Speaker 1: to what your experience is. So why are you angry
Speaker 1: at me for then using that to maintain my level
Speaker 1: my place here and my level of notoriety when you
Speaker 1: knew that was what I do. That is like a
Speaker 1: crazy personality disorder that I think that they need to explore.
Speaker 1: But the thing is, like, in that third episode of
Speaker 1: the show, So Demi Moore, actually who's great in the show,
Speaker 1: has this scene where she as Anne Woodward like comes
Speaker 1: and crashes his black and White ball and he kicks
Speaker 1: her out, and it's very public and very embarrassing, and
Speaker 1: you know, ultimately she's so outcasts from society that she
Speaker 1: does take her own life and he's you know, really
Speaker 1: responsible for that is the argument that's being made. But
Speaker 1: the thing is he's such a cunt to her. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and the writing of that scene is also tough. But
Speaker 1: I was like, he's such a fucking monster to this
Speaker 1: woman that I'm like, how moving forward are we supposed
Speaker 1: to like really want to understand or truly understand this person,
Speaker 1: like when he's ruining these women's lives, Like they'd have
Speaker 1: to really do some work here in order to make
Speaker 1: him not even just sympathetic because I know that's not
Speaker 1: the goal, but grounded in a reality, and you know, ultimately,
Speaker 1: like he was grounded in reality, he was real. So
Speaker 1: I guess I'm just waiting for the other shoe to
Speaker 1: drop in terms of the humanity of the whole thing,
Speaker 1: so that I can really find the conflict and understanding
Speaker 1: and the why of this series. I'm not sure what
Speaker 1: the why of the series is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would recommend because I'm watching the show and
Speaker 2: I'm going I want to dig deeper and i want
Speaker 2: more than what the show is capable of giving me
Speaker 2: at the moment, and so I recommend, just like reading up,
Speaker 2: I didn't know all this shit about I didn't know
Speaker 2: that Aristotle Onnasis was with Lee Radswell at first? Did
Speaker 2: you know this that like Jackie basically stole Aristotle Nassis
Speaker 2: from Lee?
Speaker 1: So where's that suit? Then? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like where's Jackie and Lee? Like you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: It's like, let's ground this in an actual feud that
Speaker 1: is playable.
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, where the fallout from the conflict is not
Speaker 2: like no one talked to each other exactly.
Speaker 1: I mean, like we know how it ends. It ends
Speaker 1: in silence. And also if the show is showing so
Speaker 1: early on that he becomes a miserable alcoholic like spoiler alert,
Speaker 1: that is how he dies. So we're not even getting there,
Speaker 1: we're kind of there. And even just that thing you
Speaker 1: said right there, like I didn't know that that's juicy.
Speaker 2: Literally Lee was with Aristotle, they were date, they were
Speaker 2: fucking for like a period of time while she was
Speaker 2: still married to Stas. Ratsville invites Jackie to come on
Speaker 2: this yacht that Aristotle has. The second she's on the gangplank,
Speaker 2: Aristotle's like I want her Yep, crazy, I did not know.
Speaker 1: That's completely insane and also something I'd like to watch,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And then you have one
Speaker 1: of these actresses playing Jackie Kennedy, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Not to say that like all these women aren't interesting,
Speaker 1: but it's almost like the show is doing a disservice
Speaker 1: to them by treating them like like one sixth of
Speaker 1: a situation.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean, right, I mean, there's all
Speaker 2: this stuff about there's so much reading about Babe Piley. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, it's all very fascinating and as always, reading
Speaker 2: is in a lot of ways fundamental, fundamental in the
Speaker 2: more informative medium if you want information, and I just
Speaker 2: wanted information. I was literally at dinner last night by
Speaker 2: myself and just brought my iPad with me and just
Speaker 2: like read every article there was, and I was like,
Speaker 2: I'm having a ball, Yeah, just read it.
Speaker 1: And therefore the show ends up being very useful. And also,
Speaker 1: you know, but then I'm thinking, as you're talking and
Speaker 1: as we're like, you know, talking about this, I'm like,
Speaker 1: this show, if it's about the gay male gaze on women,
Speaker 1: that is really interesting. And the fact that he dehumanized
Speaker 1: his friends enough to create them into characters because he
Speaker 1: knew that, you know, the average person in his mind
Speaker 1: would want to hear and devour everything that is the
Speaker 1: scandal of being these women if he was thinking them
Speaker 1: as primarily fodder and scandal before they were human beings,
Speaker 1: because that was his sick gay male gaze on women.
Speaker 1: Something they talk about in the first episode or second episode,
Speaker 1: like you know, this is the way gay men think
Speaker 1: about us. They think about us like this, this, this,
Speaker 1: like that is really interesting, you know what I mean
Speaker 1: that there's something there, because I think there's something very
Speaker 1: true about that that gay men in idol worship participate in.
Speaker 1: Like it doesn't always happen with super famous people. It
Speaker 1: happens with the women in gay men's lives. Like sometimes
Speaker 1: I hear the way that gay men talk about women
Speaker 1: and I'm like, wow, she is not a person to you, right,
Speaker 1: And it happens a lot during the Oscar race, and
Speaker 1: it happens a lot during like times like this when
Speaker 1: like women are you know out here as these like
Speaker 1: concepts and things and ideas, like there is a humanity
Speaker 1: that gets lost, which sort of ties it back to
Speaker 1: the tailor of it all where you do have to
Speaker 1: remember that these people are human beings and if that
Speaker 1: is something that we're going to arrive at in feud
Speaker 1: then I think it's really interesting and I'm really excited
Speaker 1: to get there about how he lost permanence on this
Speaker 1: situation and on humanity because he was too gay, not
Speaker 1: too gay, period. End of sentence. You are a humanist
Speaker 1: icon down, you are a true humanist. Got it from
Speaker 1: my mama, got it from my mama. On my mind,
Speaker 1: I got it from mama.
Speaker 2: Congrats Victoria, congrats Victoria really quickly. There is a truth
Speaker 2: to that, to the gay mail gaze, and I think
Speaker 2: the reflection on that is something and another Lee Radswell thing,
Speaker 2: which I think Alicia Flockhart is good casting for her.
Speaker 2: I think she's great at that aside, I was reading
Speaker 2: up on like Lee's relationship with Trumany because like she
Speaker 2: wasn't terribly pissed off at him after the Esquire article,
Speaker 2: after Cooke Basque, but like Truman asked her to speak
Speaker 2: on his behalf in a deposition when Gourvidal sued Truman
Speaker 2: Capote in like I think the seventies or eighties, because
Speaker 2: Truman was out here running his mouth lying to people
Speaker 2: saying that Gorvidal was thrown out of a Kennedy white House. Dinner,
Speaker 2: and Gorevidal was like, I'm suing you for slander, and
Speaker 2: so Truman was desperate, was like, can we please get
Speaker 2: Lee to say to who was there? Can we please
Speaker 2: get Lee to say something in my favorite? Lee refused, yeah,
Speaker 2: and then.
Speaker 1: Forget who it was.
Speaker 2: But like someone was like, but Lee, why, like why
Speaker 2: won't you get involved in this situation? Like you could
Speaker 2: really help change this? And then Lee Radswell allegedly says,
Speaker 2: oh whatever, there are just two fags anyway, just let
Speaker 2: them do their thing. And so like it goes both ways,
Speaker 2: and that is an interesting thing where they're like, however
Speaker 2: dehumanizing the gay meal gaze is like it is refracted
Speaker 2: and reflected the other direction as well.
Speaker 1: I would love a show about that. Would love that,
Speaker 1: And I like, maybe it will get there, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe it will. Because also another thing is like, was
Speaker 1: there dismissal of him in some way homophobic? You know
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like I don't know, because like he
Speaker 1: genuinely was that awful, but like there is some As
Speaker 1: I watched the show, I'm like, it is so interesting.
Speaker 1: He's like very foppish, he's very feminine. He's presenting in
Speaker 1: this way and like he is sort of like this
Speaker 1: like gesture. So in a way, it wasn't like he
Speaker 1: was being super respected. He was a prop in all
Speaker 1: of these women's lives in many ways, like you know,
Speaker 1: they can use language like that they go home to
Speaker 1: their husbands. Not to say he wasn't in a relationship,
Speaker 1: because we see that he was, but there's something there too.
Speaker 1: There's something in the fact that you know, homophobia was
Speaker 1: rampant at the time, and you know, he was not
Speaker 1: looked at like a real member of that society, right
Speaker 1: if he didn't have these like you know, trades like
Speaker 1: conversation and gossip.
Speaker 2: Well, his whole defense in the years after or the
Speaker 2: article was that like, well, what do these women think.
Speaker 2: I'm a writer, I'm not there to just entertain them.
Speaker 2: I'm observing and I'm using this stuff. And I'm like
Speaker 2: that is interesting. You don't know if you fully agree
Speaker 2: with that. But also I do see that as a
Speaker 2: pushback on him being him feeling the perception that he
Speaker 2: was just the court justter.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, anyway, I just think that the story of Truman
Speaker 2: Capoti is incredibly, incredibly interesting, like really fell down that
Speaker 2: hole in a way that I didn't.
Speaker 1: Expect Well, have you ever read in Cold Blood? I
Speaker 1: never read it. You should. I mean, it is as
Speaker 1: good as everyone says like it is. So it really
Speaker 1: started true crime, to be honest, Like if you can
Speaker 1: really trace like the lineage of that genre to that,
Speaker 1: and I think I just remember some. He really was
Speaker 1: an incredible writer.
Speaker 2: And.
Speaker 1: The interesting stuff that comes after Capodi, when he's done
Speaker 1: this like master work and that has to decide what
Speaker 1: to do next, is sort of what led directly to
Speaker 1: this situation. And so it's almost best told altogether, and
Speaker 1: I believe the best depiction of that is probably in
Speaker 1: the movie Infamous, not even in the movie Kpodi, but
Speaker 1: those are both really interesting because this period was very fascinating,
Speaker 1: and writing in Cold Blood did take so much from him,
Speaker 1: and I almost feel like there's some threads there that
Speaker 1: aren't being connected in this yet, but again I have hope.
Speaker 2: I'm sure they'll do, because his relationship with that murderer
Speaker 2: was very interesting and special, and I think that had
Speaker 2: a very dark effect on him because he watched him
Speaker 2: getting hanged. Yes he did, and so that is something
Speaker 2: Nick Dick Kickock. No, there was Perry and Dair, So
Speaker 2: Perry was the one he was you know, some people
Speaker 2: think maybe even in love.
Speaker 1: With Yeah, yeah, yeah, they have to do something with
Speaker 1: that in the show. Yeah. Again, like if they're going to,
Speaker 1: they have to also juggle the fact that they've got
Speaker 1: a lot of fucking characters. That's another thing is it's
Speaker 1: just like there's only so much real estate to tell
Speaker 1: those stories. But also they're not being told yet, like
Speaker 1: this third episode, which is entirely like it's like a
Speaker 1: it's like a creative swing they take where it's like
Speaker 1: a documentary about the Black and White Ball that was
Speaker 1: never actually made. Yeah, right, And and then I was like, wait,
Speaker 1: so he actually did film this? And I guess is
Speaker 1: this based on actual footage or is this all conjecture?
Speaker 1: There was no documentary that followed him around, Like there
Speaker 1: was no crew that followed him around, but like so
Speaker 1: this is a thing. Yeah yeah yeah, Like and what
Speaker 1: word did not show up? Right? So that's entirely I mean,
Speaker 1: And again, like I thought that scene was like juicy
Speaker 1: and great because Demi got to sort of tear. But
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know are people watching this, Like,
Speaker 1: as we're talking about this, I genuinely ask our audience,
Speaker 1: are people watching this are you guys watching food?
Speaker 2: I think they're doing a good like cross promotion on
Speaker 2: like for some reason, like diet Prada posts about it
Speaker 2: and I'm like, okay, work like they really know their audience.
Speaker 2: They're like, let's let's send it up to all the
Speaker 2: fucking faggot Instagram accounts where everyone gets their news.
Speaker 1: Where do you go get their news? Yeah? There you go?
Speaker 1: Actually you know I am I don't think sohney. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: should we do it? Should we move in? Should we
Speaker 1: get into it?
Speaker 2: Let's move into it? Yeah, this is I don't think
Speaker 2: so honey. This is where we take one minute to
Speaker 2: really reel against something in culture.
Speaker 1: Matt has Matt sort of lit up.
Speaker 2: I wish you could see over the zoom. There's a
Speaker 2: twinkle in Matt's eye, and I think twinkler. I think
Speaker 2: we're about to hear why this is Matt Rogers. I
Speaker 2: don't think so many as time starts now.
Speaker 1: I don't think so honey. Trying to watch Trade after
Speaker 1: having watched Traders Australia, I actually have to say this
Speaker 1: has been done at a ten at a ten, and
Speaker 1: luckily you can watch it. It is Traders Australia. Because
Speaker 1: we have everyone in the room is playing at full capability.
Speaker 1: Whereas now I'm starting to see, after watching this game
Speaker 1: played really really well, that the current Traders US cast
Speaker 1: is not giving that level of competitive mastery of this
Speaker 1: particular game. Now I'm starting to think, should we maybe
Speaker 1: go back to an all normy cast? But we just
Speaker 1: cast it really really well. I think what didn't work
Speaker 1: about the first season is it was half and half.
Speaker 1: And what's starting to not work about the second season
Speaker 1: is you get the sense that not everyone is there
Speaker 1: with a full knowledge and necessarily even intent to play
Speaker 1: this game to its fullest. It's kind of just like
Speaker 1: reality TV stars doing Reality TV star, which is fun,
Speaker 1: but is it competitive and is it compelling? I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't think so, honey, but of course I do.
Speaker 1: And that's one minute.
Speaker 2: I totally get it because I'm interested to hear your ranking.
Speaker 2: But I'm finally finishing up Traders UK season one, and
Speaker 2: I would say great season of all normies and they
Speaker 2: were all not operating at like top of their intelligence
Speaker 2: and competitiveness, but they were all like pretty with it,
Speaker 2: and they were like they had their rationale for everything.
Speaker 2: And I really enjoyed that part. It does seem like
Speaker 2: this season of Traders, which we love, I love, is like,
Speaker 2: you go, well, why are Kevin and MJ there, Like
Speaker 2: what are they bringing?
Speaker 1: And the thing is like, it's just hard to compare
Speaker 1: them because I'm telling you, you guys watch Traders Australia
Speaker 1: on Peacock. What's your ranking of the seasons? Oh, Traders
Speaker 1: Australia is one of the best. The one that they
Speaker 1: have on Peacock is one of the best reality seasons
Speaker 1: I've ever seen. Okay, it is so satisfying, It is
Speaker 1: so compelling to watch. Every minute it gets better. It's
Speaker 1: just so good. Whereas Traders US, I'm kind of like,
Speaker 1: I feel like we could be watching something a little
Speaker 1: bit more compelling if we had people that were a
Speaker 1: little bit more knowledgeable and just a little bit more
Speaker 1: ahead of how this game is played. Where does the
Speaker 1: UK one land in the ranking? I would say Australia's
Speaker 1: number one, the least the one I've seen. Then then
Speaker 1: I would give it to US season two. Then I
Speaker 1: would give it to UK season one, and at the
Speaker 1: bottom is US Traders season one. But and that's not
Speaker 1: talking about it, It's just that I think we were
Speaker 1: working the kinksgar with the way that it was cast.
Speaker 1: So you think that so far US two is better
Speaker 1: than UK one, Yeah, I do, just because at that level,
Speaker 1: that's where the reality TV start of it all pays off.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, I mean, we do have Parviti and Phaedri, Like,
Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, Like that is pretty fucking epic
Speaker 1: and there's so much fun in that. But just if
Speaker 1: what you want to see is a really competitive game
Speaker 1: of Traders be played, you're not getting that on US
Speaker 1: season two the way you're getting in on the Australian version.
Speaker 1: And you will be happy that you took me up
Speaker 1: on this if you stream it the UK too. Apparently
Speaker 1: was one of the biggest ratings hits in the UK. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't know about ever, but like it was a huge,
Speaker 1: huge success and people loved it. Yeah, which is funny
Speaker 1: because Australian Trader season two apparently flopped. Oh really yes,
Speaker 1: and it actually wasn't even renewed in Australia. Ah yeah, tragic,
Speaker 1: I know. Well, something about Joel Kimbuster was telling me that,
Speaker 1: like Australia, the casting is normans, but they all have
Speaker 1: like kind of crazy pat like one of them is
Speaker 1: like the first person to like murder someone, the first.
Speaker 3: Person was the first ever murderers, ever murderer.
Speaker 1: What it is is one of the people on Traders
Speaker 1: was the longest held hostage in like Australia hostage. That's
Speaker 1: what it is. Yeah, and now he's a hostage negotiator
Speaker 1: and you'll see how that plays out. But another one
Speaker 1: is another one is a psychic clairvoyant named Clea. I
Speaker 1: love it. There's just so many characters like stars on
Speaker 1: the show, and like you didn't need for one second
Speaker 1: any of them to be famous, you know what I mean. Like,
Speaker 1: and I think that there's something that's so great about
Speaker 1: you know when you see on the outset the cast
Speaker 1: of us season two of Traders. But then it's like
Speaker 1: inevitably they do get eliminated, you know, the people that
Speaker 1: you were super excited about, like aren't there anymore, which
Speaker 1: is always the risk you run on an all star cast.
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, well you're gonna run out of like
Speaker 1: your faves, right, And so now we're fucking watching Kevin. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like we're watching a lot of Kevin. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, We're watching a lot of I'm Peter you
Speaker 1: know what. And I'm like, here's my things. You watch
Speaker 1: you watch Australian Traders, and then you you watch the
Speaker 1: season of US and you realize Peter's not gonna win,
Speaker 1: like he's actually playing bad.
Speaker 2: What's not fun? And again, we love this show more
Speaker 2: than life obsessed. Watch the second it's out.
Speaker 1: My thing about Peter and Trachelle is that, like, God,
Speaker 1: they're so hard to root for. God, you really don't care,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? That is so true, And
Speaker 1: that is more on not the casting.
Speaker 2: It's just more on like the way these people who
Speaker 2: have been on TV before, I think they know how
Speaker 2: to like get ahead of the editors.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's like I would rather just see
Speaker 1: people who were clairvoyance.
Speaker 2: Hostages, like people with like compelling lives really really play well.
Speaker 1: That's very interesting. Can you imagine rooting for Peter like
Speaker 1: I don't know, Maybe it's the batchelor of at all.
Speaker 1: I'm not rooting for anyone from the Bachelor. I'm not
Speaker 1: rooting for the Bachelor to win anything. I still I'm
Speaker 1: still rooting for Poverty. Feels like she's in way too
Speaker 1: much of a corner. I think days are numbered for
Speaker 1: our Girl's still a lot of fun. Go Sandra, Go,
Speaker 1: Sandra doing the pool table math.
Speaker 2: I loved I lived, Yeah, I love Activated CenTra. I
Speaker 2: mean it's the best activated Santra.
Speaker 1: So Bowen Yang, do you have an out of think
Speaker 1: so honey? I do, all right, this is Bowen Yang's
Speaker 1: I don't think so honey, and his time starts now,
Speaker 1: I don't think, so honey.
Speaker 2: Performers who miss their center mark on an led floor,
Speaker 2: such as Usher, such as I'm sorry Beyonce sometimes who
Speaker 2: has had a history of missing her mark when the
Speaker 2: floor is a screen. Taylor is kind of better at
Speaker 2: it than a lot of people. But you know who
Speaker 2: nailed it was her at the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1: Her knew her to land. And can we just set
Speaker 1: a mark for these people?
Speaker 2: They deserve just a little mini mark that like we
Speaker 2: at home can't see, but just something that lets them
Speaker 2: know to land at the right spot so that it
Speaker 2: looks like there's ripples coming out of them, so that
Speaker 2: it looks like they are seen stuck in the outline
Speaker 2: of their body. Let's deliver on the promise of the premise.
Speaker 2: Let's make sure these people are set up for success.
Speaker 2: I want them to have the best night of their
Speaker 2: lives performing while they're walking around stomping on a screen
Speaker 2: floor or LEDs give the technology so that they know
Speaker 2: where to land.
Speaker 1: And that's one minute. Well, first of all, I want
Speaker 1: to say, the episode title is the promise of the premise,
Speaker 1: and I just can't. I go back to my central
Speaker 1: theme for this episode, which is humanity. These people are humans.
Speaker 1: They can't just hit every mark because you say of
Speaker 1: Owen Yang, I'm not that. I don't think some money
Speaker 1: is not on them.
Speaker 2: It's on the production of it all. It's on the
Speaker 2: people who are like, let's set a mark for usher.
Speaker 2: Let's set a mark for these people to know where
Speaker 2: they land. I'm not blaming Beyonce for missing where she
Speaker 2: was supposed to lay down and pose.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, I'm huge. But you did say with your chest,
Speaker 1: tailor is a little bit better at it. You said
Speaker 1: that with your chest. As a point of comparison, you
Speaker 1: need to let go of say that with your chest.
Speaker 1: By the way, you're saying chest and everyone turns off
Speaker 1: the pod. No, everyone. You should be so lucky to
Speaker 1: hear Matt Rodgers saying who cares? Yeah, I hear you,
Speaker 1: I hear you. People need to be hitting their marks.
Speaker 1: The super bullets, the biggest, the set marks better. How
Speaker 1: are you with hitting marks? I'm it's hard. I don't
Speaker 1: is hard.
Speaker 2: Deny that it's very difficult. But if you're dancing, you
Speaker 2: can like peep at the floor like I think ushers
Speaker 2: should be at the center of the concentric circles. That's
Speaker 2: all I'm saying, and that I'm gonna put that on
Speaker 2: the team that goes we're using an led floor. We're
Speaker 2: gonna do all this ship and make it look cool.
Speaker 2: We'll then make it look cool, make sure the person
Speaker 2: is in the right spot.
Speaker 1: And that's on the team.
Speaker 2: I'm just blaming it on the production. And that's not
Speaker 2: even towards people. That's towards the idea. That's towards the
Speaker 2: checklist that's being made. Yeah, put that on the checklist.
Speaker 1: Put it on the checklist. And I'm sort of over
Speaker 1: here being like God, human beings they miss marks. I'm understanding, concerned, Queen.
Speaker 1: I'm understanding concerned Queen two.
Speaker 2: But I think if we want to deliver on the
Speaker 2: promise of the promise, then we should set the mark.
Speaker 1: Girl, is the promise of your premise that you're gonna
Speaker 1: go frolic in the mountains right now.
Speaker 2: It's cold, it's snowy. I'm gonna read, I'm gonna eat
Speaker 2: a burger.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna that's beautiful. I'm writing that's beautiful. Tomorrow I'm
Speaker 1: gonna like tomorrow. Okay, yeah, Well, this has been an
Speaker 1: episode that fully delivered on the promise of the premise
Speaker 1: of this podcast, which is culture and laughter, friend friendship
Speaker 1: and friendship. Because I never, for one second during this
Speaker 1: podcast had any doubt that I was talking to my
Speaker 1: best girl and me neither. We end every episode with
Speaker 1: the song the same test and now hold up, it's
Speaker 1: pret no, no, no, don't her loan notes, I said
Speaker 1: you better you better Bye.