WEBVTT - Collective Apathy 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:14.400 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wika FP Daily with 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:18.160 Meet your Girl Danielle Moody recording Not So Live from 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:21.079 the Brooklyn Bunker, Folks, I want to talk about a 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:25.040 couple of things that struck me that were in the news. First, 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:29.080 Donald Trump was deposed this week for four and a 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:33.720 half hours at Trump Tower, where there is a lawsuit 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:41.560 pending of former protesters who were roughed up, physically roughed 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:46.720 up and injured by Trump's bodyguards at a rally in 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:50.760 twenty fifteen. What is interesting about this, other than Donald 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:56.120 Trump's Donald Trump's continued deflection and continue to hide behind 0:00:56.240 --> 0:01:01.640 executive privilege, is the montage of videos that you can 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:06.920 see that show Donald Trump, in his own fucking words, 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:14.440 encouraging his bodyguards his crowds in twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:19.039 twenty seventeen to rough up individuals and that he would 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:23.720 pay their legal fees to physically harm beat the hell 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:28.040 out of them. He said in what at one rally 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:34.759 the judge that was calling for his deposition allowed those 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:40.240 snippets to be played. Other reporters are saying, you know, 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:43.560 if it had been a more conservative judge, that that 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:46.399 probably would not have been entered, but I say, I'm 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:51.920 sorry why not? Because you see, Donald Trump wants all 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:57.400 of the privileges that come with the title of presidency, 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:01.360 but none of their responsibility. This is not news, But 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:04.440 the fact is is that the questions that I would 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:08.760 ask if I were a fucking attorney would be, when 0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:11.320 you give an order, you expect people to follow it correct, 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:15.360 yes or no? And when people don't follow that order, 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:19.560 are they punished? And is that punishment firing? Yes or no? 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:25.239 Did you at this rally, this rally, this rally, this rally, 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:31.960 and this rally call for disruptors to be physically harmed? 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:38.399 Yes or no? Roll the tape? Is this you? Yes? 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:43.160 It is? Did you call for the people who are 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:47.560 disrupting your rally by protesting in it to be roughed up? 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:53.760 What was your intent behind that? When you spoke before 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:56.880 the Suffolk County Police officers on Long Island and you 0:02:56.960 --> 0:03:03.040 told them to rough up criminals? What was that about? Like? 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:08.200 There are so many fucking instances of Donald Trump calling 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:13.000 for a violence and celebrating violence that how any judge 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:16.480 would not allow him, in his own words, over the 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:22.560 past five fucking years, to be evidence in a trial 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:29.680 where people have been abused by his underlings is ridiculous 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:32.560 to me, and just goes to show you once again 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:38.320 how wealthy, white and well connected powerful men get to 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:41.560 skirt the law and how we have to work overtime 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:45.120 right to make sure that all the teas are crossed 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:48.720 and all the eyes are dotted, because God forbid we 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:51.000 were to treat Donald Trump the way that we treat 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:54.240 black and brown, low income people in our criminal justice system. 0:03:56.160 --> 0:04:00.680 I'm just so fucking sick and tired. It's just every 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:05.400 day you see the ways in which if you don't 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:08.480 have money, and you are not white, and you are 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:12.640 not male, you don't fucking matter. And I'm sick of it, 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:17.920 sick of it, and I'm like, why isn't everybody else? 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:23.799 The other thing happening this week will be a couple 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:29.800 of things. There'll be the vote in the Senate to 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:33.400 put folks on the record for a piece of voting 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:37.560 rights legislation, which has fifty votes, all the fifty Democrats, 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:41.120 but does not have the fucking sixty that is needed 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:47.159 to skirt the fillibuster. But you still have Joe Manchin 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:50.800 and Kirsten's Cinema because of their own personal greed and 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:55.920 fucking disgusting nature to not give a fuck. So voting 0:04:56.000 --> 0:05:00.360 rights is up for it's probably final vote this week 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:05.599 to see whether or not our democracy has it gets 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:08.680 its final nail in the coffin, because there's no more 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:12.120 skirting around this, and there have been so many stories 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:13.800 that have been done, and I got to tell you 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:19.159 that this current administration, with all their fucking you know, 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:24.640 robust agenda, doesn't matter at all unless you can win 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:28.120 an election, unless the elections are free and are fair, 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:32.279 none of those things are true. And so under a 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:37.120 democratic Congress and a democratic executive branch, we are watching 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:43.800 our democracy be eroded by their fucking apathy. Right. They're 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:49.839 fucking like wedded to bullshit Senate procedures as opposed to 0:05:49.880 --> 0:06:02.040 being wedded to uplifting the voices of the people. Every day, 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:06.800 every fucking day, every week is just another week of disappointment. 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:11.720 I'm going to be writing a piece soon on you know, 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:17.280 what my thoughts are as we come to the year 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:23.919 mark of the twenty twenty election and the questions being asked, 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:27.440 you know, about what people think about Biden's performance, And 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:30.440 I'm going to frankly tell you that outside of the 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:35.080 vaccine rollouts. I think it's fucking paltry at best. And 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:38.000 everybody can come for me and tell me, well, you know, 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:40.640 they're facing so many different things and blah blah, Yeah 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:43.680 they are. Absolutely. I would never have run for president 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:49.080 at all, right, because I'm like, nah, y'all are on 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:51.640 your own. But the thing is is that they signed 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:54.200 up for this willingly, knowing exactly what the fuck they 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:56.440 were going to be walking into, or having some idea, 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:59.680 even though I'm sure it was worse than their worst nightmares. 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:05.760 But the lack of aggression, this fucking sing songy kumbayashit 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:09.039 that they still want to practice with Republicans, the fact 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:11.880 that there is no sense of urgency, there is no 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:15.040 ringing of the alarm, there is no ringing of fucking 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:21.080 necks of these two fucking supposed democrats that are double 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:25.920 handedly strangling our democracy to death the way that Chauvin 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:30.520 did fucking George Floyd. They they have their knees on 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:34.720 the neck of our democracy. And right now the Biden 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:37.880 administration is acting like those other fucking officers and just 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:46.440 standing by. We don't have time to continue with this. 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:51.160 Oh they'll come together, Oh there are reasonable Republicans, motherfucker, No, 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:56.440 there are not. Even the two that are on the 0:07:56.480 --> 0:08:07.119 one six commission voted against voting rights. The collision course 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:12.000 that we are on with authoritarianism and fascism is really 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:15.240 fucking wild. And what's worse is that some days I 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:18.520 really wish that I didn't know. Some days I do 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:22.760 believe that ignorance would be bliss to just pretend that 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:26.120 you know, all is well and none of this really matters, 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:28.040 and just go on with my day to day life. 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:31.680 Except I feel like I'm living on a countdown clock 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:35.280 that every day we just lose more and more time, 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:41.079 and we're going to be thrust soon into our dystopian present, 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:46.680 and then we'll be able to absolutely pinpoint and pin 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:53.520 the tail on the Democrat that fucked us. The last 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:56.120 thing that I will say is that, you know what 0:08:56.160 --> 0:09:02.880 else gets me is this saying that I want to die, 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:13.000 This saying that, oh, but history will remember them. They 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:18.920 are actively eracing history as we speak. They have politicized 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:23.920 our history. They are whitewashing our history, they are criminalizing 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:31.200 our history. So no history won't remember them, because history 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:35.320 is about who gets to write the story. And right 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:38.400 now Republicans are the only one holding the fucking pen. 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:44.040 Coming up next is my conversation with our friend, the 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:47.880 author of Big Dirty Money, Jennifer Tobb is back with 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:51.800 us to talk about the Pandora Papers, financial crimes, and 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:59.000 whether or not white collar criminals will ever be held accountable. Folks, 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:02.320 I am so happy to welcome back to the show 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:05.720 my friend and author of the book Big Dirty Money, 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:09.240 The shocking injustice and unseen cost of white collar Crime, 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:15.600 Jennifer tub Jen. Let's just say that billionaires have been 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:21.560 in the press for their wrongdoing like non stop over 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:27.319 the past several weeks. Every headline from you know billionaires 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:29.720 headed into add a space with all of you know, 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:32.160 the tax dollars that the tax wealth that's supposed to 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:36.000 trickle down to the rest of us, to the Pandora Papers, 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:40.640 which showed how folks within exorbitant wealth are able to 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:44.000 shelter their money, to the fact that you know, we 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:48.560 haven't seen not one Trump accolyte in a jumpsuit as 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:52.720 of now, and we are ten months past a coup 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:56.080 and attempted coup to overthrow our government. I don't even 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:58.520 know where to begin, but I want to start with 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:04.880 your thoughts around the Pandora Papers and what it illuminates 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:11.000 to the rest of us about capitalism, about what wealthy 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:14.599 people are privy to and protected by, and what the 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:17.440 wealth the rest of us just have to suffer through. 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:23.079 So I'm so glad you're talking about this because the 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:28.800 Pandora Papers, which is which were which is a project 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:33.760 of released by the same group that a year ago 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:37.800 had worked on something. So this is a consortium of 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:42.840 the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists and they're working with 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:48.800 one hundred and forty media organizations worldwide to expose what's 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:54.479 going on across the globe so that billionaires and business 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:58.040 and in government what they're doing to shelter, to hide 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:01.040 their wealth and to grow richer while the rest of us, 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:10.360 you know, continue to decline. And I what's what's the 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:16.680 most disturbing about this is how little attention it is writing. Yes, right, 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:20.719 I mean it's such an ambitious title, you know, the 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:23.000 Pandora Papers. It kind of reminds us it's kind of 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:24.839 an echo of last year. And I'm forgetting what the 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:27.160 release was last year before it had been the Panama 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:30.120 Papers last year. I'm forgetting what the name of the 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:36.000 Finnsen release, and now we have the Pandora papers. All 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:39.880 this is meant to echo the Pentagon papers, right, But 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:42.800 the Pentagon papers from way back during the Vietnam War 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:46.320 was all over the news. It really changed the public's 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:49.640 perception of whether this was a just war to continue. 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:54.920 But with the Pandora papers, it's kind of like silence. 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.240 I mean, I know people I spoke to who said, oh, surprise, surprise, 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:02.000 now we know the wealthy hide their assets and don't 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:05.920 pay taxes, Like it's just we're supposed to just accept it, right, 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:10.199 it shouldn't. And I think, to me, I'm not actually 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:13.080 shocked that it's not getting that much attention. What I 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:17.640 found most shocking about this is how we continue to 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:22.680 talk about assets being sheltered offshore when it turns out 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:28.720 South Dakota who knew literally they said that, and they said, 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:34.520 offshore just now means not of the country of your origin. Right, 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.760 is that you can place your money in these places. 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:41.160 And the term came to be because it used to 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:44.680 be places like the islands like the Caymans that had 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:49.120 weaker kind of financial laws in place, and so you 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:52.240 can harbor your money there. But we learned through this 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:56.800 discovery through this investigation that we're talking about places like Delaware, 0:13:56.840 --> 0:14:00.280 We're talking about South Dakota, we're talking about Nevada. Right, 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:05.400 So this idea of offshore really isn't that. I mean, 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:08.840 it's shocking. You know. I've been to South Dakota and 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:11.000 it's you know, I grew up in the Midwest. I 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:13.280 like the plane state. South Dakota is a charming place. 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:16.880 I spent a summer working on in Indian reservation in 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:19.680 South Dakota. I went to the Corn Palace, Like I 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:22.000 am the most shocked and surprise. And I know it's 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:24.600 been written about before, but it really hit me over 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:29.120 the head. How there is six three hundred and sixty 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:33.680 billion dollars in these kinds of trusts? Are you hear me? 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:36.920 Three hundred and sixty billion with a B in South 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:46.400 Dakota and this is international clients from fifty four countries. Wow? Again, 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:50.280 tax Haven's I think of sun I think of islands. 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:54.360 I do not think of a landlocked state Aratha that 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:57.800 can be twenty below with windshow. But I mean the 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:00.680 point here is, you know it's called the Door of Papers, 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:02.720 and you know the story of Pandora's Box. You know, 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:06.200 it's supposed to open it because all this stuff comes 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:08.280 out and then now the world is it's kind of 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:10.280 like a Garden of Eden story, and now there's all 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:15.000 kinds of disaster. But obviously, you know, I don't think 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:17.880 that that's what these papers are going to do, obviously, 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:20.640 and I don't even think the I think the real, 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:24.040 the real Pandora's box here is the fact that we 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:28.000 cannot now contain what we have done as a nation 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:32.520 and as a globe in terms of multi billionaires getting 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:35.000 so much wealthier than the rest of us and having 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:37.920 all the power to shape the laws across the globe 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:41.120 so they don't really have to pay taxes on their wealth, 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:46.080 and that they can also engage in illegal behavior, you know, 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:48.920 And it's how is it? Can we can we talk 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:52.960 about this for a moment though, because you know, wealth 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:58.760 has changed over just my lifetime, right, Like what we 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:02.880 used to consider as rich, now we have a whole 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:08.680 other grouping of uber rich, right, And how is it 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:13.080 that people during this time when millions of Americans lost 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:16.680 their job due to the pandemic, when we saw economies 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:22.800 grind to a halt, that billionaires got richer and millionaires 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:26.520 turned into billionaires during this time. How does that happen? 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:30.080 And we don't and we don't look at the overarching 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:34.240 picture and say, we have failed infrastructure in this country, 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:38.480 not because of you and I who are paying our taxes, right, 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:40.240 and the government wants to tell us, well, that's not 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:44.200 enough money. But then you have people that are moving 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:49.040 up the economic ladder from millionaires to billionaires with such ease. 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:58.720 You know, you know, I there's an partial answer to 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:02.480 the question. Is the same thing that we've talked about 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:05.359 that you know, the gains on the gains you can 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:12.160 make on capital, on investment, wealth will always exceed income growth, right, 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:15.960 And this is from the book you know, Capitalism in 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:19.000 the twenty first century. But we but we we know this. 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:23.480 You know. The numbers though still shock me. So the 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:27.399 billionaires in the US alone, these numbers are unbelievable. During 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:35.080 the pandemic, their wealth increased by one point eight trillion dollars, 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:41.720 you know, and globally, globally billionaires gained five point five trillion. 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:44.880 And if you just I mean, if you just look 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:46.119 at some of the numbers, I don't know if I 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:48.840 have this number right, but I remember, if you look 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:54.040 at just Jeff Bezos alone. I think he gained if 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:55.760 I remember correctly, and I'm just going to check it 0:17:55.840 --> 0:18:00.199 right now, I think he gained gained seventy Yes, I'm right, 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:05.000 seventy billion dollars during the pandemic. That's just beso salon. 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:10.439 I mean, I'm just disgusted, right Like, And why do 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:13.199 you think that we don't have collective outrage? Is it 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:19.280 because we as Americans regard wealth in such high esteem 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:25.399 and that we are so you know, dazzled by celebrity 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:29.359 culture and wealth culture, that it's okay for us to 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:31.600 shrug it off because in our minds we're like, well, 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:33.440 we would do the same thing if we were them, 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:37.280 and so we're not making the connection as to how 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:40.600 it is hurting us, right, I guess there's so there's 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:44.439 two things, three things I would say. One, there's, um, 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:50.000 I think the notion that even even if under existing 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:55.359 law that wealth is gained, you know, legitimately, I think 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:58.119 I have you know, many of us have a problem, 0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:00.160 um you know, going back to the Brandisi an idea 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:03.159 that you can either have a democracy, you know, or 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:06.399 you can have you know, a super wealthy class, but 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:10.919 you can't have both, right, I think also though some 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:15.119 of that wealth is gained not lawfully. I'm not speaking 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:17.320 to bezos, I'm speaking generally either some of it's gained 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:20.399 by you know, union busting or things other ways, or 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:24.000 actual actually illicit activity, right. So I think people have 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:26.960 trouble with that as well. But I think the last 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:32.000 piece that's a lot more complicated is the notion that 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:35.640 there is a lot of mistrust in what if you're 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:38.760 talking about taxing is a form of you know, a 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:40.760 wealth tax or what have you, which makes a lot 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:43.000 of sense, you know, Elizabeth Warrens, you know, just two 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:47.000 cents to have a certain amount, right, that makes a 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:49.680 lot of sense, except for people wonder, well, what is 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:53.640 the government going to do with that those tax dollars? Right? 0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:59.040 It's a distributional access at distributional factors. Once the federal 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:01.600 government has that money, you know, if are they going 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:03.600 to distribute it to the states? Are they? You know, 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:05.160 there's a lot of the things that people, I think 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:08.960 worry about, and the more people lose confidence in the government, 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:12.520 I think that's why they'll say they think things like, well, 0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:15.320 you know, Elon Musk, another one of the billionaires, maybe 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:17.639 he's got a lot of issues you know that we 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:20.040 see all over the place. But at least the Rocketsy, 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:22.840 you know, puts up in the air come down, or 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:25.800 there's there's a way that I think, and I think 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:28.240 a lot of them mistrust. I think you know, and 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:31.000 I think it's a lot of them mistrust is wrong, right. 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:34.159 I think we should trust, we can, we should be 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:36.560 able to trust the government officials we elect. But at 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:39.000 the same time that you and I are saying, oh 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:43.200 my goodness, the whole system, there's voter suppression, there's money 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:45.840 and politics. We're trying to fix it to that the 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:49.040 people who are elected actually represent us, even while we 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:52.960 know a lot of them aren't looking at our interests. Right, 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:55.240 So we're kind of talking out of both sides of 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:57.760 our mouth. On the one hand, we want more taxes 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:01.359 to make things more cool. On the other hand, we don't. 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:03.159 You and I don't fully trust the people who are 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:06.119 elected in office. I know that, and you know that. 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:09.119 But that that is such. That is such a valid 0:21:09.160 --> 0:21:13.400 point because if I'm relying on the same people who 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:18.359 created tax policy to only benefit a certain class and 0:21:18.400 --> 0:21:22.159 then punish another, then I'm asking those same people and 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:25.400 assuming that if I give you more money, you're now 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:29.520 going to do right by it. In my response to 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:33.040 that would be, on the other hand, we have, you know, 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:36.040 the government needs to employ even more people. Right our 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:39.840 post office is slow. The government can also distribute funds 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:41.840 to the states so they can pay for higher education 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:44.880 and there's less student that. There's a lot that just 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:49.440 having the money. Infrastructure. Our bridges are crumbling, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:53.359 There's a lot hey, oh sorry, you know, um trying 0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:56.160 to develop industry, so we don't, you know, kill the planet. 0:21:56.640 --> 0:21:59.080 I think even if you and I both agree that 0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:01.600 we don't fully trust the folks who may you know, 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:05.320 funnel the money to the good stuff, we think starving 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:07.840 the federal government starting the states is going to be 0:22:07.880 --> 0:22:11.840 far worse. Right so so, but I think it takes 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:14.119 I'm so glad you're not gonna have this honest conversation 0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:16.000 because I think some of you just have to think 0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:19.560 logically about what is the alternative. And I don't like 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:22.760 the status quo right now, and I really think we 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:25.040 need a wealth tax, and we of course need to 0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:27.960 close a lot of the loopholes that are in the 0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:31.119 tax system, and a lot of where we need to look, 0:22:31.480 --> 0:22:34.800 is this really important work that these journalists across the 0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:37.800 country are doing to shine a light on all of this. 0:22:38.720 --> 0:22:43.560 But you're in your mind, do you believe that we 0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:47.000 are still living inside of a democracy? Because this is 0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:50.760 something that I have been honestly grappling with and writing 0:22:50.800 --> 0:22:54.960 about and talking about, you know, since before Trump came 0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:59.080 into office, because even the idea of a person like 0:22:59.240 --> 0:23:03.640 him being able to ascend shows me that our democracy 0:23:03.920 --> 0:23:06.960 is broken. And you know, oftentimes when I say things 0:23:07.000 --> 0:23:09.680 on this show, the criminal justice system is broken, I've 0:23:09.680 --> 0:23:11.720 decided to shift that and I'm like, no, it's not broken. 0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:14.280 It's actually working exactly how it was meant to work, right. 0:23:14.440 --> 0:23:18.200 It's punishing those that they have believed don't deserve second chances, 0:23:18.240 --> 0:23:23.920 don't deserve lesser sentencing, and are not rehabable whatever. And 0:23:23.960 --> 0:23:26.760 I wonder, like I have you know, I had one 0:23:26.800 --> 0:23:29.320 of our one of our other friends watch a hot 0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:31.840 on this show, you know, last week, and I was 0:23:31.880 --> 0:23:34.880 just like, our is our democracy? Do you still think 0:23:34.880 --> 0:23:40.719 it's it's functioning? And he's like, yeah, I don't think so. 0:23:40.720 --> 0:23:44.720 So you know, I'm going to do this like thing, 0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:47.680 which is like, uh, did it you know, were there 0:23:47.680 --> 0:23:52.159 times when it functioned better than other times. And you know, 0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:58.080 to me, democracy has always been aspirational. I think things 0:23:58.080 --> 0:24:01.280 are really in trouble right now. Let me just yea, yeah, yeah, right, 0:24:01.560 --> 0:24:04.000 But we can you know, we can talk about democracy, 0:24:04.600 --> 0:24:07.240 you know, and I don't need to tell you you know, 0:24:07.280 --> 0:24:10.840 when this nation was founded, that was aspirational only for 0:24:10.880 --> 0:24:14.960 some group of people, right, okay? And so have we 0:24:15.040 --> 0:24:17.520 ever had you know, you know, we can talk about 0:24:17.560 --> 0:24:21.400 you know, you know, what did the fourteenth Amendment mean? 0:24:22.200 --> 0:24:26.080 Didn't mean anything until the Voting Rights Act happened? What about? 0:24:26.359 --> 0:24:29.119 You know, was there a golden age? I'm trying to 0:24:29.160 --> 0:24:31.920 figure out, you know, was there a moment when we thought, 0:24:32.280 --> 0:24:36.120 you know, was it like you know, when Barack Obama 0:24:36.160 --> 0:24:39.520 was elected? We didn't think everything was fixed then, right, 0:24:39.680 --> 0:24:41.159 you know? In other words, I don't I'm trying to 0:24:41.200 --> 0:24:45.560 find this moment where things were perfect and they weren't. 0:24:46.400 --> 0:24:50.480 But the problem now is things are broken and there's 0:24:50.480 --> 0:24:56.280 an aggressive attempt to roll back voting rights, civil rights 0:24:56.400 --> 0:25:01.239 all you know that is happening, abortion rights. We're watching this. 0:25:01.320 --> 0:25:05.679 There's so much money in politics. The Republican Party is 0:25:05.840 --> 0:25:09.879 willing to stand behind an insurrectionist who's still claiming he 0:25:10.920 --> 0:25:13.359 won the election. I mean, a lot is really broken. 0:25:13.520 --> 0:25:16.399 I think this is a really dangerous time. Right. This 0:25:16.480 --> 0:25:19.280 reminds me of like what you hear about before the 0:25:19.320 --> 0:25:21.760 Civil War. I mean, this is really a dangerous time. 0:25:22.160 --> 0:25:26.200 But to be you know, democracy can't Democracy itself can 0:25:26.200 --> 0:25:28.800 never be broken because it's an ideal. And the question 0:25:28.920 --> 0:25:31.040 is can be sit down and talk about the ideal 0:25:31.240 --> 0:25:35.520 and talk about how far we are ideal? Right? There's 0:25:35.560 --> 0:25:37.360 all you know. And for also a point of view, 0:25:37.640 --> 0:25:40.840 for you or me, it really feels like democracy is 0:25:40.880 --> 0:25:44.160 broken now. But for somebody who's struggling just to get by, 0:25:44.240 --> 0:25:46.320 it looks just as broken as it always did their 0:25:46.320 --> 0:25:49.560 whole life, you know what I mean? Yeah, I do, 0:25:49.640 --> 0:25:54.560 Because you know, there is the beauty that I've always 0:25:54.600 --> 0:26:00.320 said that lies in the promise of America, is in 0:26:00.359 --> 0:26:05.600 its aspiration. Right, people come here because that we don't 0:26:05.720 --> 0:26:08.800 have a system, or at one time we didn't have 0:26:08.840 --> 0:26:11.960 a system where you were locked into a cast. Right 0:26:12.040 --> 0:26:16.159 that there, the beauty of America is embedded in its possibility. 0:26:16.560 --> 0:26:21.639 But when possibility of economic mobility is eroded, right, and 0:26:21.920 --> 0:26:24.399 we're seeing that, I mean I think I saw a 0:26:24.480 --> 0:26:27.480 report the other day where it's like eleven million people 0:26:27.520 --> 0:26:32.400 have opted out of the workforce because they're like, yeah, 0:26:32.480 --> 0:26:36.520 these are slave wages. I don't have any health benefits, 0:26:36.880 --> 0:26:40.800 Like it's my mental health is taxed, right, I'm treated 0:26:40.840 --> 0:26:43.520 like trash, So I'm just going to opt out. I 0:26:43.640 --> 0:26:48.600 talk to you know, a gen Zer recently, and they're like, 0:26:48.720 --> 0:26:53.679 you know, their generation is bucking against capitalism as a whole. 0:26:53.920 --> 0:26:56.879 They're like, it doesn't work, right, Like, it doesn't, it doesn't. 0:26:56.880 --> 0:26:59.120 It doesn't work for us, Like look, how look how 0:26:59.200 --> 0:27:01.560 wide the gap is. And so when I you know, 0:27:01.600 --> 0:27:03.920 and I take all of these things in, it's just like, 0:27:04.200 --> 0:27:07.480 what I think is most eroded right now is possibility, 0:27:08.080 --> 0:27:12.040