WEBVTT - The Real Killer Season 2, Ep. 6: This Is My Life 0:00:01.320 --> 0:00:05.680 A warning. This episode contains language and depictions of violence 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:15.000 that may be disturbing to some listeners. I wanted you 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:17.760 to know that I put in a foyer request for 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:21.400 your nineteen eighty nine case. Can I send you the 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:26.120 stuff that I got? Yeah, I'm talking to Keith Lamar 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:29.320 about his nineteen eighty nine case, the one he pled 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:32.520 guilty to involving the shooting death of his childhood friend 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:36.000 Kenyata Collins, the case that sent him to prison in 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:39.720 the first place. What kind of stuff they sent me 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:45.479 the police reports? This story is ever evolving, and this 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:48.200 episode is going to be unlike any of the others 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:51.480 so far. What you're about to hear is a raw 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:59.440 conversation between me and Keith. There are some witness statements 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:04.120 and yeah, just some stuff that I would like to 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:06.520 ask you about because they said things that were different 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:10.479 than what you said. Yeah, Yeah, I love I love Yeah, 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:13.039 because I've never really actually seen to believe it or not. 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:21.240 Things are about to get very real. Oh can I 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:36.119 lose you? No, I'm right here. I'm Leah Rothman. This 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:50.400 is the Real Killer, Episode six. This is my life. 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:53.360 How are you doing? I'm well? How are you? I'm 0:01:53.360 --> 0:02:01.080 pretty good. Yeah, good good, Um, Well should we chat? 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:07.520 I'm nervous. My nervous laugh gives me away. It's been 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:10.360 five days since I sent Keith the police reports and 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:13.840 crime scene photos. In order to get the reports, I 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:17.680 submitted a FOIA request, which is a Freedom of Information 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:21.160 Act request, to the City of Cleveland's Public Records department. 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:24.799 When it comes in, I assume I'm going to read 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:27.480 a version of events that matches what Keith told me 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:31.440 in a previous episode that he shot Kenyatta Collins during 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:33.760 what seemed to be a robbery at the apartment where 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:37.520 he was dealing drugs. Remember, Keith was shot twice two 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:42.840 but the police report says something different. So I struggle. 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:45.480 I struggle with whether or not to bring it up 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:48.840 to Keith. I keep asking myself, does what happened in 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:52.120 nineteen eighty nine have any real bearing on what he 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:55.639 was accused of doing during the uprising? I mean, it 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:58.720 wasn't allowed in at Keith's nineteen ninety five trial because 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:02.080 it was a prior offense. So I waver on whether 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:05.760 to go there. It really comes down to an issue 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:09.840 of truthfulness. Although Keith has admitted and pled guilty to 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:13.639 killing Kenyatta Collins. Why would a story be different than 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:16.520 what was in the police reports. Not that I can 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:19.200 always believe what I read in police reports, because as 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:22.519 we all know, law enforcement gets things wrong a lot 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:27.919 of the time, especially when it comes to black men. Ultimately, 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:30.640 I decide I'm going to ask him about it. But 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:34.480 before our call, Keith emails me and brings up something 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:37.840 that's on the second page of the report. It looks 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:40.840 like a photocopy of a post it with Seth Tiger's 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:43.280 name on it. Seth Tiger is one of the two 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:47.520 prosecutors who tried Keith's case for the state. Keith wonders 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:50.640 if I had actually gotten the reports from Seth Tiger. 0:03:51.680 --> 0:04:01.640 I addressed that right off the bat. Okay, so, first 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:06.120 of all, I did not get the reports that nineteen 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:10.480 eighty nine police reports from Stuff Tieker. Yeah, but the 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:12.440 fact that his name was only I mean, it's not 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:17.120 an uncustomary that they would request that information. But I 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:19.479 think it was that information. I mean, I've said it 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:22.520 all wrong that they looked at my record would use 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:25.520 my record as leverage to get me to cop out. Yeah, 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:28.440 it's it's it's it's taken by itself. It's it's dammy, 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:31.720 but I have a sad away for you know, when 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:35.480 we spoke last week, you're intimated that what you said, 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:39.520 obviously it's different from what you said back to that, 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:44.960 and that implies something different about you intended. But it's 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:49.400 not different from what I've last I've admitted some details 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:53.200 because it involves other people, but the admissions are not 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:58.800 like to deceive or to you know, mitigate what happened. 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:03.240 I I get it to murder anything that happened before 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:07.960 after Dan, you know, Carolyn comparison. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:11.599 I killed somebody. I admit that. So you know, whatever 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:14.159 questions that you have will respect to that. I try 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:18.360 to answer them, and I hope you understand that I'm 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.679 not There's no sort of like gotcha. I'm not trying 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:24.839 to prove anything or I put in the foyer request 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:28.720 because that's just what you do as a journalist, right 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:32.480 you just I don't think I don't think. I'm sorry. 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:34.520 I don't mean to cut you off, but I don't 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:36.120 think you it was a got to. If that was 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:38.239 the case, you wouldn't to sit in the information before 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:40.159 you questioned me about it. So I'm not. I'm not 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:43.600 thinking alone those lines. I'm just trying to speaking to 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:48.120 the the vacuum, you know, try to you know, ask 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:51.960 some uh, some detail to what was omitted from my 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:54.360 you know, from and and ask you you know, give 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:57.159 you some kind of read some justification why I don't 0:05:57.200 --> 0:06:00.839 talk about those things in depth, like you on in 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:04.160 the report that you know, the person who saw shot 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:08.159 me wasn't Jamaican. But I said that because I didn't 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:11.800 want to tell on that person. That makes sound strange 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:15.280 to some somebody again that live in your world, but 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:17.039 in the world I grew up, and you don't do 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:20.800 that even if somebody has tried to take your life. 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:22.800 And I'm just saying that that just gives you some 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:24.880 kind of indication of how steaked I was in that, 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:28.440 you know, in that in that world and so and 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:30.920 when I was in the same similar situation within this 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:33.919 Weaver I said I was asleep. I wasn't asleep. I 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:37.840 saw the whole thing. Remember Dennis Weaver as the man 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.279 who was murdered in that K Block cell on the 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:43.760 third day of the uprising. Keith is accused of calling 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:48.160 for Weaver's murder. But again, I didn't want to be involved, 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:50.680 because that's how you know, I've been able to stay 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:54.120 alive in this world that I've been living in. And 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:56.120 you know, it's hard for people to understand that. So 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:58.120 they take the fact that I said I was asleep 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:01.799 that the mean that I had some culpability in his death. 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:04.880 And if I did, I would have bed guilty. That's 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:09.159 what my records suggests. I'm an admitted criminal, a murderer, thief, 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:12.760 drug dealer, So you know, I you know, I was 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:16.560 fucked up. I was a fucked up place. There's no 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:19.120 way really around that there. You know, it's a debate 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:21.200 on or right now whether a lot jay Z was 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:24.240 actually a drug dealer, you know, you know, and actually 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:26.760 you know experience, you know some of the things that 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:29.200 he rap about. I don't know if you hit to 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:31.560 him in his music, but you know he talked a 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:34.800 lot about drugs, a lot about you know, the mentality 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:37.120 you got you have to have in order to be 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:40.760 a successful drug dealer, you know, and you know, all 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:43.240 that is violence. But I don't think a lot of 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:47.680 people fully understand, you know, what that really really is. 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:49.760 And then when you have my record and you put 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.400 that in front of people, horrified but I said, but 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:54.120 this is what you're wrapping too, this is what you 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:57.080 rathering around, you know, bopping your here too. This is it, 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:00.520 you know. But it's hard to kind to give people 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:04.080 depend to understand that. And so you know, I wasn't there. 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:07.720 I was I didn't take offense to uh you, you know, 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:12.960 making me aware of my record. You know it's my record. Yeah, 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:16.760 And again, just to be clear, it was just that 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:21.040 you had told me what happened and it didn't seem 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:23.600 to be the same. And I think what is the 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:28.160 more important conversation is this. I don't give two shits 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:30.720 about the details of what happened in eighty nine. I don't. 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:34.720 I just you know, I just had to ask, and 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:36.320 I wanted you to. I wanted you to be able 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:38.120 to read it. I wanted, I know, and I wanted 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:40.080 you to be able to read it. And it was 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:42.160 just something that I got God and I had to 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:46.240 ask about. It's not totally irrelevant. I mean, it's some 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:50.559 you know, because the implication by showing people that report 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:53.000 I'm talking about, if you the prosecutor, if they say, well, 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:54.959 look at this, that he did this, so we should 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:59.000 assume that he did this thing and so the basis 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:01.600 for forming that and just you know, to look at 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:05.440 the parallels. He killed somebody here, he killed somebody here. 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:09.120 But it's the nuance or the devils in the details, 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:13.760 as they say, I'm not interested in. And you know, 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:16.800 I mean, excuse my language, but they're shitting on somebody's 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:20.760 grave and y'all is dead. But he was. He wasn't 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:24.320 an angel, you It was things that happened prior to 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:28.000 you know that that that Pacific night, you know that, 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:31.280 you know, put him in that posture, me and him, 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:34.439 he and I. So he did bar his way into 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:39.320 the um to the apartment, and one of his friends 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:41.920 or his cousin, I can't recall who exactly who that was, 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:47.200 um said that he came in and said, I know 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:49.520 that motherfucker's in here, or something like that, something to 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:52.720 that degree. But you know, this this thing that happened 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:56.600 between that, it was ongoing thing. They robbed me. I 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:58.319 shotted at them a couple of times a couple of 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:00.920 days after that. I mean, this is all leading up 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:03.320 to the event that happened that night. It wasn't like, 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:05.280 you know, we were just sitting there and I just 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:08.280 opened fired on this with this person. You know what 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:10.200 I mean. You know, I don't know if you ever 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:13.160 had a gun pointing to your head. You know, that 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:15.800 happened to me several times. An environment that I lived in, 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:19.320 and yet I've remained in that environment. So in order 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:21.600 to you know, exist in that world, I had to 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:24.199 become part of that environment. So it was King YadA, 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:27.319 So was everybody else. Who were you know, in that apartment. 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:31.240 That didn't happened. We weren't. We weren't sitting around in 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:34.080 church at Bible stuffy. We was in a drug band 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:38.679 in a drug crime infested neighborhood. That's what that happened. 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:43.199 So context is important. It's important. Now I don't shot away, 0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:45.240 and you say it's different from you know what I 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:49.680 told you? You know what I mean in what way? 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:55.040 I mean the way that it's presented in the police reports, 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:58.839 which again I'm just stating. When it says in the 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:03.480 police reports, it's says that you guys were all getting 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:07.360 high and then and Kenyada was sitting I think, like 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:11.200 on the edge of a sofa something sofa. You pointed 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:13.280 the gun out the window, shot it out the window. 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:15.319 They're like, what are you doing? And then the next thing, 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:19.600 they know, you shoot Kenyada and say this is for 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:22.360 raping my sister or something to that of that. So, 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:25.840 I mean, I'm just going off of what I read. 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:29.520 I absolutely it's only why And you know what, I 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:32.320 gotta say this, it really has nothing to do I 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:35.240 think the reason I wanted to ask you about it 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:37.600 has nothing to do with other what other people said. 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:42.120 It had to do with what you told police, right, 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:46.320 because it's just like what you told Yeah, what you 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:49.160 told police, which is different than what you shared with me. 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:55.400 That's I would high most days that environment, that life 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:57.560 that I was living. You had to be high. You 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:00.240 had to be in a different mind state in order 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:02.480 to even do the things that you did, because everything 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:07.640 that you do that you are doing is humanizing everything. 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:11.200 One of the sad things about you know, coming up 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:12.760 to the way that I did. You know that you 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:15.280 get lost and the prison that I was in is 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:18.240 way worse than the prison that I came to being 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:23.880 trapped around that. You know, that arbitrary violence, Like I said, 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.720 it's deeply credited and recognition of what I allowed myself 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:29.920 to become. And see that's the thing about you know, 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:34.800 this country, you know, and especially as it relates to 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:38.480 black people. You know, it's like, we don't get a 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:41.880 second chance. I mean, you know, all these things that 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:44.360 we're talking about right now happened when I was eighteen 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:47.680 years old. I'm fifty three, and you say it don't matter, 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:50.959 but they do matter. People who are deciding whether or 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:53.720 not they're going to support me or not they cross over. 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:56.400 All the stuff that I'm doing with the project, with 0:12:56.559 --> 0:13:00.880 the music are the engagement that I'm having. Over the 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:04.480 last several years, Keith has launched a literacy program, cut 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:07.360 an album with a group of world renowned jazz musicians, 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:10.640 written a book, and been a guest speaker in many 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.760 high school and college classes. We're going to talk a 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:18.880 lot more about all this in a later episode. You know, 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:23.600 I don't have any illusions about my chances in terms 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:26.200 of getting my life back, but at the end of 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:28.360 the day, this is about more than that. For me. 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:32.480 You know, my whole life now is to kind of 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:36.160 repair or rescue my potential from that misspent youth that 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:38.800 you're reading about. That's what, you know, my life, to 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:41.679 make something out of my life, not so some white person, 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:43.520 that's the end of the day, can judge whether or 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:47.400 not I'm worthy. When you say I don't care about 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:50.079 the details, I really don't care about the details, because 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:53.760 I understand them. No details that you don't care about. 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:56.400 Other people will judge me for, but they only judge 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:59.520 a part of the record, the worst part, and that's 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:02.280 the part that you're stuck right there. That's all you 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:06.280 can ever be, according to some people, you know, But 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:08.640 I know, you know, you know that we are better 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:11.400 than our worst mistakes. I know that about us as 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:13.880 human being, and I can speak to those things not 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:16.680 from a book, but from my experience. I got bullet bones, 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:19.960 you know, I saw the pictures. You know that's my 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:22.920 blood in that hallway. I mean, you know, I know 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:26.360 we're doing a podcast. It's my life. I didn't shoot myself. 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:29.560 I was going to shut out, So you know, those 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:31.520 are the things that you know that are important too. 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:33.440 I'm talking about you want to have a conversation. Let's 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:52.680 have a conversation. I continue my conversation with Keith about 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:55.600 this nineteen eighty nine case and the police reports I 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:59.640 recently received and shared with him. I'm glad you brought 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.000 this because I promise you just the first time I've 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:04.720 ever seen this you know what I mean. And even 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:08.480 though you know the details are somewhat different than how 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:11.240 I describe, but you understand that I'm admitting certain things 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:15.240 because other people were involved. Nobody ever would you know 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:19.480 what was punished for shooting me? Okay, well, you know, 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:22.200 I put myself in a dangerous situation and something, you know, 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:28.160 some harm was done to me. That's my fault. So 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:30.400 that's why I didn't tell the police who shot me. 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:34.360 I put myself in that situation. That's how I feel 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:37.000 about that. I feel the same way about guys who 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:42.560 become informants in prison. Spitzers get killed in prison. Everybody 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:45.800 know that. I don't think these people who were murdered 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:48.800 during the riot were like, you know, had nothing to 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:51.160 do with them deaths. They made the citizen about who 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:53.080 and what they would do. Would they you know, with 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:56.600 themselves as well? Right? I mean, that's how I look 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:59.720 at it. By saying that they deserve to die, certainly 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:04.680 not admitting for killing them. What I'm saying, they're not innocent. 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:08.040 You had to back You became an informing an environment 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:12.440 where where informants get killed, and they lost their lives. 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:16.240 And then they offered me to becoming informed offered all 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:19.840 of us that opportunity, and I passed, and for that 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:22.760 I'm being punished. I've been on death road for almost 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:25.640 three decades. When all I had to do was take 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:30.120 the stand, allowing another individual or take a deal if 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:32.480 I would guilty. I took the deal. You know, That's 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:35.200 what I'm saying. Uh, you know, it's it's it's stuff. 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:38.160 It's complicated, you know what I mean. You know, stuff 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:41.280 is complicated, you know, but you know, I just don't 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:44.200 like it being represented as if we were sitting in 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:48.400 some kind of you know, picnic and you know, you know, 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:51.640 I said, or just walking into a church where people 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:55.280 were praying and I just open fired on these people. 0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:59.280 Or that just walked into a grocery store where people 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:03.400 were shopping, that just open fired on those people. I 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:07.119 just walking to a school where people are learning and 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:09.639 I just open fired on from keys, I was in 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:13.439 the drug it set its crime with the area selling dope, 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:21.560 selling poison. You have one minute remaining, so context is important. Yes, 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:29.240 context is everything. Um, are you able to call back? Yes? Okay, 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:35.480 Keith calls right back. For the record. My original plan 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:38.720 was to ask Keith more specifically about how his story 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:42.040 differs from the police report. But the more we talk, 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:50.840 the more it seems irrelevant. Hello, Hi, Hi, okay, if 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:52.920 there is anything more you'd like to ask me about 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:57.760 what you read, you know, I mean, I don't think 0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:01.679 I have any other questions. I've been in part of 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:06.560 this criminal life story of my life or form or another. 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:10.080 But I'm not naive. I'm not you know, some kind 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:12.760 of you know, bumbling aniots who kind of stumbling into 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:15.679 this day. I was in prison, I was in the celle, 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:18.600 I was in the ride, but I didn't have anything 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:20.719 to do with the ride, the planning over, the carrying 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:23.160 out of it, had nothing to do with the take over, 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:26.320 the prison, any of those things. But now here I am, 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.720 thirty years later, still trying to explain, you know, you 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:32.840 know what I did and didn't do, not only that 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:34.879 I had to ask you something to happen when I 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:38.359 was eighteen. It's like, God damn, talk about you know, 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:43.880 justice from the criminal justices. It's just a criminal system. 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:46.760 People make their own judgments and determined to you know, 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:49.840 their craft is to sit their own prejudices and stuff. 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:55.000 That's what self teething them did moving my trial, you know, 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:59.520 to the Irons and Ohio people have never even seen 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:03.480 black people and alone walked the mile in their shoes. 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:05.560 I mean, he supposed to be tried in from the jury, 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:08.000 your peers. I'm supposed to be able to sit in 0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:10.639 and tell people like listen, I was selling drugs and 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:13.760 they understand like what that entails, and so then they 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:16.359 can understand like, well we can sweet how you you know, 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:18.680 you know he was this person if he was living 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:20.800 in this world. Yeah, I know about that world. Yeah, 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:22.640 I know, you know that's what you had to come. 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:24.760 So when I hear jay Z talk about this world, 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:27.680 it's nuances and what he's saying, you know, it's it's 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:30.000 it's certain things and his lyrics that let me know 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:33.720 that he was there. He was also admitted to shooting 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:36.720 his brothers. Brothers took some of his jury from the 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:39.720 brother was on drugs. Jay Z building that right now, 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:43.560 jay Z shot him just based on that, just based 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:45.679 on him shooting his brother over some jury. I know 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:47.840 he had to shut people and then shoot people in 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:52.080 dealing drugs. That's just par for the course. That's what 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:54.920 being a drug really is. No. So, but that don't 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:56.960 make you that, Don't that don't make you a mass murderer, 0:19:57.119 --> 0:19:59.960 a serial killer. I'm not a crusader like I'm trying 0:19:59.960 --> 0:20:02.960 to read the world of snitches. I didn't do that, 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:07.280 so you know, I just was a convenient you know, 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:12.120 uh stand in because of my record. It's my record, 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:14.919 you know. So if I'm executed out you know the 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:17.280 way I'm kind of squared into my mind. If I'm executed, 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:21.520 it's for king y'all. Step. That's the only way I 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:25.000 can really even settle it in my mind. So I've 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:27.920 done thirty four years, even though I've made steps great 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:31.919 steps to redeem myself. If I'm awesomely executed, that's what 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:34.359 it would be for in my mind. And you know, 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:55.440 I'm all right with that. I just want to make 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:57.439 that clear for the record, I wouldn't be talking to 0:20:57.520 --> 0:21:01.240 you when I think you were legit. And and by that, 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:03.760 I don't mean that you you know, you know you 0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:06.479 you write something to do something that's in my favor. 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:08.760 I'm not asking you to do that later. I think 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:10.800 you're doing a good job. I mean, I'm saying why 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:13.040 I think you're doing it. I'm like, damn, man, she 0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:15.160 really did it, you know what I mean? I never 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:18.360 saw that report, you know what I mean, I never 0:21:18.400 --> 0:21:23.640 saw that report. But just imagine, Yeah, this lady everywhere 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:25.840 what the fuck you know, I mean, all up in 0:21:25.960 --> 0:21:30.840 my business. You know, I don't remember, do your job. 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:32.800 You know what I mean, do your job. I think 0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:35.439 I admitted to murder, you know, you know looking at 0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:38.520 those pictures, my blood in the hallway. Man, I didn't 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:41.600 sleep that night. I sleep. I remember, I remember the 0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:45.080 door and everything going through that door. That door, you know, 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:47.560 you know, as a city three old man, I had 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:49.439 to go through that door to change my life. You 0:21:49.480 --> 0:21:51.359 know all that, you know what I was learning. I 0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:54.680 had to go through all that. You know, I stat 0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:57.680 against me. Nobody's gonna give me a reward for surviving 0:21:57.720 --> 0:21:59.800 three decades and saw to take a fine with what 0:21:59.840 --> 0:22:02.840 I losing my mind. I would get a plaque for that. 0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:06.960 People might be able to control your environment, but they 0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:10.080 can't help to control the details of your dogs and 0:22:10.240 --> 0:22:13.400 stop you from writing a book. But you can stop 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:16.040 you from living your life for you. You know that's 0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:17.840 my message. You know what I mean? And you know 0:22:18.000 --> 0:22:21.720 the hell was self peaker? Fuck him, fuck him. He's 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:24.760 the coward in this equation. He's the coward in this narrative, 0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:28.359 which you did you you you no, it's neither you know, 0:22:28.480 --> 0:22:32.560 they're you know, I'm at peace where I stand, you know, 0:22:32.680 --> 0:22:36.800 and you know, um, I see you. You know you're 0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:39.399 doing you know, you're doing your your you do diligence 0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:42.320 and you know, I you know, I respect that. M 0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:46.800 via um. Yeah, yeah, you're a little fighter getting there. 0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:52.119 Well that's what I'm trying to do. Thank you. I 0:22:52.160 --> 0:22:55.399 think we're probably gonna get cut off soon. All this 0:22:55.480 --> 0:22:58.240 stuff is so difficult, so painful, you know. I mean 0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:00.159 in my life and I'm talking to you know what 0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:03.919 the verst of all strange, so you know, uh, and 0:23:04.080 --> 0:23:06.080 just so a big of time I feel, you know, 0:23:07.520 --> 0:23:11.720 actually you know close to you you know, Um, I 0:23:11.720 --> 0:23:15.040 don't know. I take certain things for planting, so you 0:23:15.040 --> 0:23:19.000 know my experience cannot you know, uh uh warn me 0:23:19.040 --> 0:23:22.280 against doing that with people because I'm living in this 0:23:22.359 --> 0:23:25.440 spectro the environment whatever. Like I said, and I say 0:23:25.440 --> 0:23:29.480 it again, you know, I'm not expecting any favors. I 0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:32.280 just I just want you to, you know, to bring 0:23:32.280 --> 0:23:36.119 balance to the story. What I mean, you know, you 0:23:36.160 --> 0:23:40.160