1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:04,880 Speaker 1: I guess what will? What's that mango? So you know 2 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: how their names of groups of animals, like I think 3 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:10,039 Speaker 1: a group of crows is a murder of crows, or 4 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: if you have a group of rhinoceros is called a crash, 5 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: not a squad, which you know, I guess Taylor Swift 6 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: or my son would call them. It's a crash. Just 7 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: one more similarity between Taylor Swift and your son. You did, 8 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 1: you forgot a couple of my favorites. So I've always 9 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: loved smack of jellyfish, and then of course a business 10 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: of ferrets, which I don't know why, but that's my favorite. 11 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: I think it is pretty great. So I found this 12 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:34,480 Speaker 1: video online called how to Care for Your Introvert, which 13 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:36,559 Speaker 1: claims that a pair of introverts is actually called an 14 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,160 Speaker 1: awkward and a group of introverts is what you call 15 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:44,559 Speaker 1: an angst. Is this real? Like, of course not, but 16 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: the whole video is joky and fun, and it points 17 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:49,480 Speaker 1: out that introverts are rarely found together in the wild. 18 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: So these are mostly theoretical terms anyway. But as you know, 19 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: I'm definitely an introvert, and when I was in high school, 20 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: I almost used to bristle at this phrase, like all 21 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: great figures in history are seen as charismatic and big characters, 22 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: And I figured, you know, I could be fun at 23 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,559 Speaker 1: a party and friends, I do things, So I figured 24 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: there was no way I should be lumped in with 25 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: the introverts. But then in college I quickly realized I 26 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: am such an introvert, especially when I compared myself to 27 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: my wife, who just crams in so many things into 28 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: our social calendar. It doesn't make any sense to me. 29 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: But you know, this whole thing has made me wonder 30 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: what does being an introvert really mean? Like do you 31 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: have to be strictly an introvert or an extrovert? Or 32 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: is there a spectrum? Do our brains actually behave differently? 33 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 1: And is it okay for me to hit the closed 34 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: door button on an elevator when someone's trying to catch 35 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: a ride with me, Because I would really love a 36 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: scientific excuse to say that's all right, let's dive in, 37 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: say their podcast listeners, Welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm 38 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: Will Pearson, and as always I'm joined by my good 39 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 1: friend Mangesh Ticketer. And on the other side of the 40 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: soundproof glass sporting yet another one of his classic T shirts. 41 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: This one just says introverts social club. Why go big 42 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: when you can go home? This is one of my 43 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: favorites of his. But that's our friend and producer Tristan McNeil, 44 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: And I've got to say, for an introverted guy, he 45 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: definitely speaks volumes with his shirts. Mango wouldn't agree. Definitely. Well, 46 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: you know, one thing I realized while doing the research 47 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: for today's show is that introverts can be pretty tough 48 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: to pin down in terms of personality. And you know, 49 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: and most of us here the term, we immediately think 50 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: of traits like sensitivity, or introspection or maybe quietness. I mean, 51 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: but the truth is, none of those things are guaranteed 52 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: signs of introversion. And that's because introversion is definitely a 53 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: spectrum rather than being this one set way of being. 54 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:03,239 Speaker 1: So with that distinction in mind, I thought we could 55 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 1: use this episode as a way to kind of set 56 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,959 Speaker 1: the record straight on what's probably one of the more 57 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: misunderstood aspects of human personality. We're gonna look at the 58 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 1: science behind introversion as well as how our society tends 59 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: to view introverted people. And we'll also run through some 60 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: of the pros and cons to really see how introverts 61 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: stack up against their more outgoing counterparts, and to kick 62 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: things off, I I thought we could talk a little 63 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: bit about what introversion is and also what it isn't. 64 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: So to start from the beginning, the terms introvert and 65 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: extrovert were first coined by Carl Jung way back in 66 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: He used them mainly as a way to distinguish between 67 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: two prevalent types of personality, those who feel more connected 68 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: to their inward thoughts and feelings and those who focus 69 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: primarily on the external world. And really, that was it, 70 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: Like there was no stigma, no rank attached to one 71 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: or another. You know. It wasn't like my wife who 72 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: tells me you introverts think you're so special. Like these 73 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: were just two different, equally valid ways of experiencing and 74 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: processing the world. And in the years since then, other 75 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: researchers have expanded on Young's ideas. Of course, there's no 76 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: catch all definition for the term, but there at least 77 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: a few things we can say about introverts in general. 78 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: For example, introverts tend to be good listeners, who think 79 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 1: before they speak. They enjoy time alone, They usually need 80 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 1: less stimulation than extroverts when it comes to entertainment. And 81 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: while they typically tire of small talk quickly, they can 82 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: talk to your ear off when they're given the chance 83 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: to dig into a topic they really care about, you know. 84 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: And and I think this was something that I've really 85 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 1: thought about in the past week or so as we've 86 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: been working on this topic. And that's the fact that 87 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: no one is really a hundred percent introverted or add 88 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: percent extroverted other than my year old Mammo. I think 89 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: she's pretty close to extrovert extrovert. She's definitely an extrovert. 90 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 1: But but we're all really more of a mix of 91 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: both personality types. And I've actually realized that about the 92 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: two of us. If if people are looking at the 93 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: two of us, most people would say you're an introvert 94 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: and I'm an extrovert. But really, as we've been doing 95 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 1: the research, you kind of realize there is this very 96 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: real mix. It's just that most of us lean harder 97 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: one way than the other, definitely, and that's why you'll 98 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,799 Speaker 1: find like a quiet classmate or a coworker can actually 99 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 1: be a really engaging public speaker. And that's because of 100 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: this big cultural misconception that all introverts are incredibly shy 101 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: people who can never get up in front of an 102 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: audience without cracking under the pressure. But in reality, introversion 103 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: is a completely different thing than shyness. So I'm not 104 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: sure if you remember that groundbreaking book on introverts. It 105 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: was written by Susan Kine. It's called Quiet. It came 106 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: out about Yeah, it came out about five or six 107 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: years ago, and it's full of really insightful takes on introversion. 108 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: And one of the things Susan covers is that shyness 109 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 1: and being an introvert are driven by completely different forces. 110 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: So listen to how she explains it. Quote, shyness is 111 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: the fear of social disapproval or humiliation. Well, introversion is 112 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: a preference for environments that are not over stimulating. Shyness 113 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 1: is inherently painful, Introversion is not. I mean, I think 114 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: that's such an interesting quote from that, because those are 115 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 1: definitely two words that I think people have just assumed 116 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 1: kind of meant the same thing. But so think a 117 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: little bit more about it. So, shyness is more of 118 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: a reaction than a way of being, and so as 119 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: a result, you could even have an extrovert who might 120 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: really enjoy being around crowds, but actually it is definitely 121 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 1: afraid of being in the spotlight themselves. Absolutely, And in 122 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: the same way, it's possible to have an introvert who's 123 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,679 Speaker 1: also shy. Since shinus is a learned behavior, an introvert 124 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: could develop a fear of social situations because they've been 125 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: made to feel like they don't measure up to extroverts. 126 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: So it could actually be this, I guess, the self 127 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: fulfilling prophecy. Well, and there's that same kind of misconception 128 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: about social anxiety. I mean, a lot of people would 129 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 1: assume that that condition goes hand in hand with introversion, 130 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 1: but it doesn't necessarily. I mean, social anxiety is is 131 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: similar to shyness, and that it's largely learned behavior, but 132 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,559 Speaker 1: anxiety also tends to run in families, so is without 133 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: question a very real genetic lenk there as well. It's just, 134 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: you know, a more extreme form of self consciousness than 135 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: either shyness or introversion. And just trying to think of 136 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: an example of this, I mean, somebody with social anxiety 137 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: might feel totally incapable in a social situation, you know, 138 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: maybe they tell themselves they don't have anything to contribute, 139 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: or that people ignore or misunderstand them, so why bother 140 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: even saying anything. But I mean, that's generally not the 141 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,119 Speaker 1: case with introverts. In fact, many of them are pretty 142 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: adept at kind of you know, you might say, turning 143 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: on their social skills when they need to. All right, well, 144 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: now that we know some of the things that introversion 145 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: is not, we should talk about what it actually is. 146 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: And like you alluded to at the top of the show, 147 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: that's kind of easier said than done because most popular 148 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: definitions fail to capture the range of ways that introversion 149 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: manifests in people like we tend to view introversion as 150 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: opposite to extroversion. So if an extroverts outspoken, then an 151 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: introvert is tight lip. This is kind of a dumbing 152 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: down of distinctions, and it's really nothing new. But thankfully 153 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: there's been a lot more research on the subject, and 154 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: that includes the work of a psychology professor at Wellesley 155 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: College named Jonathan Cheeks. So a few years back, he 156 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 1: surveyed a group of five adults and he asked them 157 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: everything from how often they dy dream, how important they 158 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: consider solitude for their well being all sorts questions like this, 159 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: and then Cheek used their responses to help develop what 160 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: he called the star chart. But you know you don't 161 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: have to worry about this, well, I know you've got 162 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: an aversion to astrology. This has nothing to do with 163 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: where mercury is rising. And it's actually a breakdown of 164 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: what Cheek considers the four types of introversion. So it's social, thinking, anxious, 165 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 1: and restraint. Even better, so we've got an acronym, and 166 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: you know I love a good acreatim So now I 167 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 1: feel like you deserve the chance to kind of give 168 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 1: us a rundown of what falls in each of those 169 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: those four categories. Sure, so the S is social introversion, 170 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: and this is probably what a lot of people would 171 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 1: think of when they're asked to describe introverts, right, Like, 172 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: it's basically a preference for small groups over large ones, 173 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 1: for more solitary activities, you know, thinking about things like 174 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: reading a book or watching a movie. Thinking introversion, which 175 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: is the T that's a little different. Introverts of this 176 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: type don't mind like big social events or these highly 177 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: stimulating environments, and that's mainly because they're really connected to 178 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: their interior world. You know, all that commotion around them 179 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: is really drowned out by all the introspection that they 180 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: go through in self reflection that occupies their minds. Yeah, 181 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 1: so these are people. I mean it kind of makes 182 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: me think of the phrase where we talk about people 183 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: being in their own little world. I guess, yeah, exactly. 184 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: And the example I read try to lay it out 185 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: in Harry Potter terms, which is of course very much appreciated. 186 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 1: And in that case, the socially awkward nevill would be 187 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 1: a social introvert, while a thinking introvert would be someone 188 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:53,319 Speaker 1: more like Luna Lovegood, you know, who's sort of dreamily creative. Right, 189 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: that makes sense. I feel like everything makes more sense 190 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: when you can explain it in Harry Potter. So evidently 191 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: we'll try to do that with all future episodes. But 192 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: all right, so that's the S and the T. So 193 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 1: how about the A and the R. Right, So next 194 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: up is anxious introversion. As you might guess from the name, 195 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: this refers to introverts who have also some form of 196 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,559 Speaker 1: social anxiety, and it's characterized by a tendency to kind 197 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:19,079 Speaker 1: of overthink things and also to dwell on your mistakes 198 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,679 Speaker 1: or perceived mistakes for well after the fact, I mean, 199 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: it really is, it can be crippling. And lastly, there's 200 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: the R and star, which refers to restrained or reserved. 201 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: And uh, these are people who take a little while 202 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,599 Speaker 1: to get going. So instead of diving straight into a conversation, 203 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 1: a restrained introvert, might you know, hear what everyone has 204 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: to say, really take their time to absorb and think 205 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: on it and then offer their own thoughts. So pretty 206 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 1: much there to think first, act let people in the world. Okay, 207 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: that makes sense, And I feel like this four way 208 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: system definitely covers more ground than just the one blanket term. 209 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: But I have to also think that, you know, there's 210 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: an awful lot of overlap between the different types, Like 211 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: I can imagine somebody being a part thinking introvert and 212 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:05,959 Speaker 1: part restrained introvert or some other combination of these four definitely, 213 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: and when she came up with this model, he really 214 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: wanted to expand the definition of introvert, not just replace 215 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: it with these four strict types. So, according to him, 216 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: plenty of introverts are actually a mix of all four types. 217 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: Al Right, well, I'd say we have a pretty good 218 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 1: grasp on what goes into being an introvert. So why 219 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: why don't we switch gears a little bit and talk 220 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: about the science of introversion Because it isn't by chance 221 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 1: that introverts and extroverts think differently. I mean, their brains 222 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: are actually different. For example, if you look at brain 223 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: scans of the two different types of brains, you'd see 224 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: a thicker prefrontal cortex in introverts when you compare them 225 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,439 Speaker 1: to extroverts. And since that part of the brain is 226 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: connected with things like deep thought and planning, that bigger 227 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: cortex might actually explain why introverts tend to be less 228 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: impulsive than extroverts. Now, instead of processing new information directly, 229 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: these introverts first run it through the neural pathway that 230 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: deals with planning and long term memor Marie. And so 231 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,439 Speaker 1: this is why introverts might actually take longer to make 232 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: a decision or former response, because they're comparing old and 233 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:11,719 Speaker 1: new experiences and even weighing the potential outcomes while they 234 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 1: mold things over. And so this can slow the thinking 235 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,319 Speaker 1: process down a pretty good bid actually, but it also 236 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: results in these carefully thought out responses and choices, and 237 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: it's not something that you always get with extroverts, which 238 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 1: is interesting. You know, I hadn't heard about that bigger 239 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: cortex is thing, But now I feel like I'm gonna 240 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: brag to everyone about how large my cortex. Probably I 241 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 1: knew that that was coming. I know you're gonna be 242 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: bragging about this non stuff. So actually, the differences between 243 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: introverted and extroverted brains that I've always heard about is 244 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: the way we respond to dopamine. And you know, we've 245 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: talked about this before. Dopamine is one of the neurotransmitters 246 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,959 Speaker 1: that's closely tied to our sensation of pleasure, especially when 247 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 1: it comes to seeking rewards or taking risks, and uh, 248 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: Dopamine has similar effects on introverts and extroverts alike. When 249 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: it hits your brain, you feel more alert, you might 250 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: be more talkative, more motivated to take chances, and in fact, 251 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: introverts and extroverts even have the same amount of dopamine 252 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: in their bodies. The differences that dopamine triggers the reward 253 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 1: network much more strongly in the brains of extroverts. So 254 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: take something like earning a promotion at work that would 255 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: likely generate excitement in both kinds of people, right, But 256 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: the extrovert would feel that excitement to a much greater 257 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: degree than the introvert, which I don't know, when you 258 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 1: think about it, feels like kind of a raw deal 259 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 1: for the introverse. If it feels like they're getting jipped 260 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: on the whole dopamine thing, I guess, well, don't feel 261 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,559 Speaker 1: too bad just yet, because there's actually another transmitter is 262 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: a newer transmitter called acetal coline, and it's also associated 263 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,199 Speaker 1: with pleasure, but this one is the go to choice 264 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 1: for introverts looking to unwind, and unlike dopamine, acetal coline 265 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: generates these happy feelings for more inward focused activities, so 266 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: like thinking deeply about something or concentrating on one thing 267 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: for an extended period. And the chemical is tied to 268 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: the parasympathetic side of the nervous system, which is nicknamed 269 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 1: the throttledown or the rest and digest side. So if 270 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: Netflix and Chill is actually your pastime a choice, you 271 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: can thank a settle colin for that. All right. Well, 272 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: since we're getting into the comparisons between introverts and extroverts, 273 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: I feel like we should go through our list of 274 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: pros and cons and see how the two ways of 275 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: being kind of stack up against one another. Yeah, it 276 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: sounds fun to me. But first, let's take a quick break. 277 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: If you're listening to Part Time Genius and we're talking 278 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: about the not so subtle differences between introverts and extroverts, alright, 279 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: I go. So the first introvert advantage that I want 280 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: to talk about is their knack for being able to 281 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: read people, because when it comes to judging how another 282 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 1: person will think, or feel or act, start show that 283 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: introverts make better inferences than you know, extroverts. And that's 284 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: almost every single time. And we do know this thanks 285 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: to a study from a team of psychologists at Yale, 286 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: because they were asking more than a thousand participants about 287 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: how the average person would react in different social situations. So, 288 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: for example, this one comes straight from the test, and 289 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: here's the question. It's quote, people are usually overly confident 290 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: in the accuracy of their judgments true or false. I 291 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: mean I have to say true on that, but I 292 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: also feel like I might be being overconfident of course, 293 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: but actually you got the correct answer on this one. 294 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: But anyway, after the survey, the researchers rounded up the 295 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: highest scoring participants, and then they ran a series of 296 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: psychological tests, and they did this to determine which personality 297 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: traits these people had in common. Now, it's not surprising 298 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: that the respondents who made the most accurate judgments were 299 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: more likely to be intelligent and interested in problem solving 300 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: than those who scored poorly. But the more surprising finding 301 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: was that these same people were also more introverted. And 302 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: as one of the studies authors explains, quote, it could 303 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: be that the introverted people are spending more time observing 304 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: human nature than those who are busy interacting with others, 305 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: or they're more accurate and introspection because they have fewer 306 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: motivational biases. They don't view the world through rose colored 307 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: glasses as jovial and extroverted people do. Well, I mean 308 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: that does track with what we were saying about introverts 309 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: and how they have a tendency to think carefully and 310 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: be more observant of their surroundings. That's true, but I 311 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: don't want to get accused of serious bias here, so 312 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: I should point out that there was a drawback to 313 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: the introverts perception powers in this same study, because along 314 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: with that intelligence and curiosity, those highest scoring participants also 315 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: reported being more lonely and maybe having lower self esteem 316 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: than they're more extroverted counterparts, So it's not really an 317 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: across the board win for either one of these groups. Yeah, 318 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: and those kind of tradeoffs kind of pop up a 319 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: lot when you compare introverts and extroverts, And I mean, 320 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: it makes sense from an evolutionary perspective that both types 321 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: of people would excel and also lag in different ways. 322 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: You know, if one way of being was decidedly better 323 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,399 Speaker 1: than the other, it feels like we still wouldn't have 324 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: both types of people in the world. And if you 325 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: think about how these different traits might have emerged in 326 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 1: the first place, it's easy to see their respective evolutionary advantages. Like, um, 327 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: if you took like prehistoric introverts, they likely would have 328 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: stuck close to the cave and avoided predators, which would 329 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: have increased their chances of not being eaten. And on 330 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,680 Speaker 1: the other hand, like the extroverted caveman would have wandered 331 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:43,679 Speaker 1: far and wide and and they would have had the 332 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: instincts to look for new types of food and shelter 333 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: and all of that. When shelter was in short supply 334 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: and that's a good point. I had not really thought 335 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: about that way. But I mean, what would you make 336 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 1: of the idea that introverts tend to be more melancholic? 337 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: I mean, I know I've heard before that extroverts or 338 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 1: happier people overall when they're measured against introverts, and that study, 339 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: for Meal, does seem to lend some credence to that theory. 340 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: I'm curious what your thoughts are on that. Yeah. So 341 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 1: I've actually seen those studies before too, and they're usually 342 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: center on that dopamine reaction that we talked about earlier. 343 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: And the truth is, happiness levels are pretty evenly matched 344 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: between introverts and extroverts when it comes I guess to 345 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 1: like inwardly focused activities, you know, watching TV, listening to music, 346 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: reading a book. But the real disparity arises when you 347 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: look at happiness levels during social activities and the ones 348 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 1: where some kind of reward is at stake, and in 349 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: those cases extroverts really have the advantage. But you know, 350 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: according to Susan Caine, this is more about how we 351 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: define happiness than it is about who's objectively happier. For example, 352 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 1: in in Western culture is like our own, we we 353 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: have a habit of viewing happiness as an active state. 354 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: It's sort of this explosive enthusiasm and excitement and giddiness. 355 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: And you know, that's not the case for Eastern cultures, 356 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 1: where happiness is seen as something more past of its 357 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 1: contentment and peacefulness and almost this feeling of being present 358 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: and focused in the moment. So Kine actually has a 359 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,959 Speaker 1: quote on this. She says, when introverts talk about the 360 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 1: things that they most love to do, it's very often 361 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: activities like reading, hiking, cycling, being with their spouses, being 362 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: with their children. It's a quieter type of contentment that 363 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: often fuels introverts and that we don't pay proper attention to. 364 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: But speaking of proper attention, you know that might be 365 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 1: another reason that extroverts report such higher levels of happiness, 366 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: because they're less introspective, and because of that, they also 367 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: tend to overlook drawbacks and great experiences on a curve. So, 368 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: for example, an extrovert might say that they had a 369 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 1: great time at a party and not even mention things 370 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: like there wasn't enough food to go around or that 371 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: the sound system kept going out. But I guess feel 372 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 1: like you're using specific examples from things. These are things 373 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: that haven't at a party, I want to But you know, 374 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:58,199 Speaker 1: an introvert would likely notice all these little details and uh, 375 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: you know, have a better sense of how it impacted 376 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: everyone's overall experience. But you know, in the end, it 377 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: could be that the introverts are more inclined to give 378 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: this less rosy and potentially more accurate assessment of how 379 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 1: happy they really are. I mean, I think that's probably true. 380 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 1: But I mean, back to what we were saying about 381 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,679 Speaker 1: those trade offs, and to be fair, there are costs 382 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,919 Speaker 1: to being an extrovert as well. I mean, we mentioned 383 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: that extroverts have this pensiont for risk taking, and so 384 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 1: as you might expect, that tendency can backfire in some 385 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,159 Speaker 1: pretty damaging ways. I mean, as an example, extroverts are 386 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: more likely to be hospitalized for an accident or for 387 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: an illness than introverts are, and they're more likely to 388 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,359 Speaker 1: develop criminal behaviors. They're more likely to get arrested. To like, 389 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: all of these things are true, that can't be true. 390 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like they're more likely to be arrested. Yeah, 391 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:47,879 Speaker 1: this is why I'm trying to claim that I'm not 392 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: as much of an extrovert, as I once thought that 393 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: I was. I mean, but I guess it makes sense 394 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: if you're impulsive instead of a planner. But this does 395 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: come from the journal Comprehensive Psychiatry, and this was from 396 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: re search conducted at Johns Hopkins and at the Bloomberg 397 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: School of Public Health. So Mango, that sounds about as 398 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: legit as it gets. Yeah, that's so bizarre. But you know, 399 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: we've been focusing on differences. I I do want to 400 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: make sure that we mentioned some of the similarities between 401 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 1: introverts and extroverts, and this is a pretty unexpected one. 402 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:19,880 Speaker 1: So you know how introverts need time alone to kind 403 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: of recharge their batteries after a social outing. Yeah, I 404 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: feel like this is always the definition I've always used 405 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: for introversion. And obviously these people can turn on their 406 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: extroverted behavior for a while, but they eventually start to 407 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: feel drained and just want to go home and relax. 408 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: But it turns out that too much socializing can actually 409 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: be exhausting for everyone, even extroverts. So a couple of 410 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: years ago, this finished research team found that the more 411 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: people were acting extroverted, the more they reported being in 412 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 1: a positive mood and feeling unfatigued in the moment. However, 413 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: after three hours of socializing, people report these higher levels 414 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 1: of fatigue. And this was true for both introverts and extroverts. Yeah, 415 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,919 Speaker 1: I mean, but three hours of intense socializing that just 416 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: sounds exhausting. Like, I don't know, who wouldn't be tired 417 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,120 Speaker 1: by that? Clinton, I think that's probably right. But I mean, 418 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: it is interesting that acting introverted netted the same positive 419 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 1: mood boost for both the introverts and the extroverts, at least, 420 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: you know, for a little while. But and I guess 421 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: it goes to show that humans really are social animals, 422 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: just two differing degrees. I guess. Yeah, I mean, that's 423 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: probably a safe that But before we move on, I 424 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 1: want to point out that not all people lean towards 425 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: extroversion or introversion. There's actually a third kind of person 426 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: called an ambivert, and these are the people who followed 427 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: right smack in the middle of the spectrum, and it's 428 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: actually way more common than I would have expected. I 429 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: thought these were like unicorns, but in fact, according to 430 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: one study, ambiverts makeup about thirty eight percent of the 431 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: population at any given time, It's kind of a weird 432 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,080 Speaker 1: word though, don't you think, like called an ambivert but 433 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 1: really an insult? I mean, I am curious that, like, 434 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: where do ambiverts land in terms of the kinds of 435 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 1: advantages that we've been talking up. So the thing is 436 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 1: that fewer studies have been commissioned on anty verts is 437 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,920 Speaker 1: partially because scientists love studying the extremes, but that there 438 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: was a management expert named Adam Grant who conducted a 439 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: study back in two thousand thirteen. He surveyed three forty 440 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: call center employees and found that two thirds of them 441 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: considered themselves neither introverted nor extroverted. And while you might 442 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 1: think the extroverts would have this clear advantage when it 443 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: came to talking on the phone for a living, Grant 444 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 1: actually found that it was the ambiverts who closed most 445 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: of the sales. And do we know why? That is 446 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: not entirely but Grants theories that ambiverts are just better 447 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:39,919 Speaker 1: suited for both aspects of a sales call. You know, 448 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 1: they could do the talking, they could also do the listening, 449 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 1: and as he explained, ambiverts are quote likely to express 450 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: the sertiveness and enthusiasm to persuade and close the sale, 451 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,120 Speaker 1: but are more inclined to listen and also are less 452 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 1: vulnerable to appearing too excited or overconfident. And I guess 453 00:23:58,640 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: it makes a lot of sense when you when you 454 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,719 Speaker 1: think about it. But I'm glad you've broached this subject 455 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 1: of job proficiency though, because one thing that I was 456 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 1: looking into this week is how introverts are faring in 457 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: today's job market. I mean, it's it's not surprising that 458 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 1: they've had a rough go of things in the past, 459 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 1: both in terms of business and in society as a whole. 460 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: But I was really trying to get a sense of 461 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,439 Speaker 1: whether things have gotten any easier for introverts in the 462 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: information age. Yeah, I mean, you think about that Moneyball example, 463 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,360 Speaker 1: where people who ran funny or didn't look handsome enough 464 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: were considered less exciting prospects and then less valued, and 465 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 1: you can see how that might apply similarly to quiet employees. 466 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:54,400 Speaker 1: But let's take another quick break and then dive back in. Okay, Well, 467 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: so I know you wanted to talk about how society 468 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 1: views introverts, and I think I have the perfect Susan 469 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 1: Caine quote to set the stage. You know, at the 470 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: beginning of her book Quiet, she writes, quote, today we 471 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,360 Speaker 1: make room for a remarkably narrow range of personality styles. 472 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: We're told that to be great is to be bold, 473 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: to be happy is to be sociable. We see ourselves 474 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: as a nation of extroverts, which means that we have 475 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: lost sight of who we really are. Depending on which 476 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: study you consult, one third to one half of Americans 477 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: or introverts. In other words, one out of every two 478 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 1: or three people. You know, if you are not an 479 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: introvert yourself, you're surely raising, managing, married to, or coupled 480 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: with one. Yeah, I mean that's got to be true. 481 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 1: And it's clear that our country has a strong bias 482 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 1: towards extraversion. And actually this is something Kine experience firsthand. 483 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 1: I mean, she was an attorney and a negotiator before 484 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,919 Speaker 1: she ever decided to get into writing, and she experienced 485 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: this all through her career. That Kane says she felt 486 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 1: ashamed of being an introvert. And not only did she 487 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 1: come to view her quietness and reserve as somewhat of 488 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: her professional disadvantage, she even considered it a behavioral defect, 489 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,880 Speaker 1: I mean something to correct or overcome, which is really 490 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: unfortunate to think about. And really, it's no wonder she 491 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: felt this way because most schools and businesses there pressuring 492 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: us all our lives to be more extroverted and to 493 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,880 Speaker 1: get out of our heads and complete work in groups 494 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: and complete you know, things as a team. So it's 495 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: it's not surprising that people would think this way. Yeah, 496 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I hadn't thought about this before, but most 497 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: of our institutions are clearly set to cater to extroverts 498 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 1: and the kinds of stimulation they enjoy. Like if you 499 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,919 Speaker 1: think about brainstorming meetings where the most upbeat person in 500 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: the office stands at a whiteboard and kind of coaxes 501 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: ideas out of everyone. There's at least forty years of 502 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: research that says individuals brainstorming on their own come up 503 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: with better ideas than groups do. But most businesses have 504 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: missed that memo. You know, I feel like Mango, this 505 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 1: is one of those episodes where every time you're mentioning things, 506 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: I'm like, you've got somebody specific in mind. I know it, 507 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: but anyway, but you think about that group think mentality 508 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: that it's become the standard in most US schools as well. 509 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the idea that these off the 510 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 1: cuff interactions will produce these new or creative ideas, and 511 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: and that is probably true in some cases, but that 512 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,680 Speaker 1: approach definitely discounts the creativity that comes with with being 513 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,919 Speaker 1: in solitude sometimes. Yeah, I mean it's a shame too, 514 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,639 Speaker 1: because you don't want kids to think their natural inclinations 515 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: are invalid. Like sometimes you see the parents of preschool 516 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 1: or elementary age students making apologies for their children's introversion, 517 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 1: you know, like I'm sorry he's so quiet or something 518 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: like that. I've been guilty of this in the past, 519 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: and and so many of these kids grow up making 520 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: the same apologies for themselves, as if they're innate personalities 521 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,919 Speaker 1: are something they should apologize for. Yeah, that's true. But 522 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: you know, thanks to the work of Susan Kine and 523 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 1: of course others, that we we've been thinking about this, 524 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: and our society has been showing introverts I think a 525 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: lot more empathy in recent years, and you know, from 526 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: shirts like the one Tristan's rocking and rocking so well today, 527 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,640 Speaker 1: your man. You think about the countless listicles and introvert 528 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,959 Speaker 1: quizzes that we're all bombarded with and being an introvert 529 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: in America is now more accepted than any other time 530 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: in history. In fact, one nice side effect to the 531 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: culture becoming more accepting of introversion is that it opens 532 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: up these new career opportunities for introverts. And in fact, 533 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: have you heard this podcast that's called Hiding in the Bathroom? 534 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: I have not, so it's hosted by an introverted blogger 535 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,640 Speaker 1: turned podcaster named Mora Aaron's Meal, and it's basically an 536 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,919 Speaker 1: ongoing rebuttal to the idea that introversion is always a 537 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: weakness and extraversion is always a strength, which is so 538 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: weird and introvert podcaster, I feel like, who would have 539 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: heard of such a thing? I mean, that can't even 540 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: be possible, can it? I don't think so. Well, it 541 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: makes perfect sense that introverts might thrive, and I feel 542 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: like that. I mean, after all, podcasts walk that line 543 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: between private and public. I guess yeah. And I mean 544 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: it's the same thing we touched on earlier about how 545 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: some introverts actually make great public speaker is because they 546 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: enjoyed the opportunity to dig in and really think about 547 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: these topics and death, which is, you know, why everyone 548 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: should actually listen to Susan Kin's Ted Talk because it's 549 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: really really wonderful. Yeah. Yeah, Well, the Internet has also 550 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: been a boon for introverts. I mean, you get to 551 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 1: actively engage with so many different people, all from this 552 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,479 Speaker 1: relative comfort and safety of your own home. What's interesting 553 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: is that introverts are finding new career opportunities away from 554 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: their screens too. This is according to Smithsonian, introverts are 555 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: in high demand on Mars, or at least on these 556 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 1: NASA missions to Mars because, according to a two thousand 557 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: fourteen report, researchers now believe that extroverts could be a 558 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 1: quote liability on long term space mission. Is that just 559 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: because they're afraid there would be too many criminals in 560 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 1: the MIDA, way too many criminals. Now, I mean, it's 561 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 1: it's really because we're talking about pinning up these talkative, 562 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: highly outgoing people and these isolated environments for years on 563 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: in so I mean, not only with these extroverted team 564 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 1: members everybody else crazy on board, but they'd also have 565 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: to contend with living in environment that really gives them 566 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: very little room for new activities or social interactions. So 567 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: you could see how it could be pretty tough for him. Yeah. 568 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 1: I mean my daughter is a total extrovert too, And 569 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: and before we put her in preschool, when she was 570 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: just at home, we thought she was like a husky 571 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: without work. She was just going around being destructive. I 572 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: couldn't figure out what to do with herself. And then 573 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: you put her in school and she's interacting with kids, 574 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: and suddenly she's just totally happy. Yeah. I mean, you're 575 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: definitely surrounded by extroverts in your life. But you know, 576 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 1: you think about the goal is to find the right 577 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: balance here and that sweet spot where introverts and extroverts 578 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: kind of even each other out to create this compatible 579 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: and functioning team. Yeah, that that feels like what we 580 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: should be striving for in general. But you know, at 581 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: the risk of going full cornball here, I I did 582 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: want to share some advice that Susan Caine put together 583 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: for the introverts out there. It's called the Quiet Revolution Manifesto, 584 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: and she has ten tips for everyone who is introverted, 585 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: and I thought I'd just share it here. So this 586 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: is how it goes. One there's a word for people 587 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: who are in their heads too much, thinkers. Two Solitude 588 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 1: is a catalyst for innovation. Three The next generation of 589 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 1: quiet kids can and must be raised to know their 590 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: own strengths. Four. Sometimes it helps to be a pretend extrovert. 591 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: There's always time to be quiet later. Five, But in 592 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 1: the long run, staying true to your temperament is the 593 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: key to finding work you love and work that matters. Six. 594 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: One genuine relationship is worth a fistful of business cards. 595 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: So I'm just gonna possible a second. This is actually 596 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: something that made me think differently about networking events, which 597 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: I always feel like I have to go to for 598 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: work and and make contacts and stuff, and I'm terrible 599 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: at them. But it is true, like if if you 600 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: sit in the corner but you make one good relationship 601 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: at these things, it does feel like the event has 602 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 1: been worthwhile. And that's sort of eased my my thinking 603 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: about this. But back to the list. Seven, it's okay 604 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: across the street to avoid making small talk. Eight. Quiet 605 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: leadership is not an oxymoron. Nine love is essential, garious 606 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 1: nous is optional, and ten in a gentle way, you 607 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: can shake the world. And that's a quote from Mahakma Gandhi. 608 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: You know what this is. This is inspiring me. I 609 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: feel like the introverts of the world should unite in 610 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: this case, I mean, of course separately in their own houses, 611 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: but exactly, and with that sort of amazing call to 612 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: action that you've just given, what do you say we 613 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: step out of our own shells and go head to 614 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: head and a fact off sounds good? H alright? So 615 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 1: here's a quick one. Did you know that guzzling coffee 616 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: before meeting my backfire on introverts looking for a little 617 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: bit of a brain boost is according to psychologist Brian 618 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: little Quote, after ingesting about two cups of coffee, extroverts 619 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: carry out task more efficiently, whereas introverts perform less. Well, 620 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: this deficit is magnified if the task they're engaging in 621 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 1: is quantitative and if it is done under time pressure. 622 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: That's really interesting. I've got to cut back my caffeine 623 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 1: and take So here's a funny one, also related to coffee. Uh, 624 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: there's a new machine in Singapore that's basically an office 625 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 1: coffee machine that withholds the coffee until two people have 626 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: a conversation in front of it. It's being billed as 627 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: the linked in of coffee machines, and the whole idea 628 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: is to facilitate more human interactions, especially in spaces where 629 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: everyone's communicating on slack. But for those of us who 630 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 1: are on the quieter end of the spectrum and really 631 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 1: just want our cup of coffee in the morning. It's 632 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 1: got a nickname. It's called the introvert torture device. Wow, 633 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: that sounds about right. That's pretty rough, all right. So 634 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 1: there's been more than a few introverted presidents in American history. 635 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: We of course think of Lincoln being one, and Obama 636 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: was one, but I think Calvin Coolidge might be the 637 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: most famous of them. So there's all these stories of 638 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 1: people visiting the White House and when they talked, he 639 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,480 Speaker 1: would just stare at them. In fact, during one interview, 640 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 1: Coolidge said his strategy was basically to let people monologue 641 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,920 Speaker 1: their way out of his office. As he put it, 642 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 1: many times I say yes or no to people, but 643 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: even that is too much. It winds them up for 644 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: twenty minutes more. I love that. You know, this is 645 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: one great story about Coolidge I have to share. So 646 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 1: we've talked about him and his weird practical jokes in 647 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 1: the past, like how he'd hit the buzzer to call 648 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:36,719 Speaker 1: the Secret Service into his office. And then he'd hide 649 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,480 Speaker 1: under the desk, which honestly just makes him sound like 650 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,800 Speaker 1: an idiot. But I read he'd also often poured cream 651 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 1: into his saucer instead of his teacup, and then all 652 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:48,879 Speaker 1: these people sitting around him at a meeting or whatever 653 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,959 Speaker 1: would be confused. So after a while they'd do the same, 654 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 1: Like they thought, this is how the president likes to 655 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: drink his cream or whatever, and they didn't want to 656 00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,239 Speaker 1: him feel bad. They thought maybe he was sophisticated, so 657 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: like they did same thing, And after they'd all poured 658 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 1: their cream into their saucers, he just quietly placed the 659 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 1: saucer on the floor for his dogs to laugh at. Yeah. 660 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: I know, I think it's so terrific. But here's my fact. 661 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,440 Speaker 1: So apparently we all get more introverted as we get older, 662 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 1: and you know, I guess this feels true, like we're 663 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 1: less interested in needing approval, we're less interested in making 664 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: friends and all that stuff. But apparently this is all 665 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:31,840 Speaker 1: an evolutionary mechanism, so there's more need to make bonds 666 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,720 Speaker 1: when you're younger than when you're older. But what's funny, 667 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: and Susan Kine points this out, is that relative levels 668 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,319 Speaker 1: of introversion tend to stay the same. So she says, like, 669 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 1: if you go back to your high school reunion, for instance, 670 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 1: and you went and you ranked everyone in your class 671 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,279 Speaker 1: into their levels of extro version, they all have the 672 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 1: same rank. But it's just that everyone would have shifted 673 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 1: together along the spectrum. Yeah, that's pretty interesting, but I mean, 674 00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 1: I guess it also makes sense. Okay. Well, one of 675 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 1: our favorite kids authors of all time, Theodore Geisel a 676 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 1: k a. Doctor Seuss, did you know that he was 677 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 1: a total introvert. Oh that's interesting. I actually wouldn't have 678 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 1: figured that because you read about him in college and 679 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: he he was always at keg parties and things. Yeah, well, 680 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,399 Speaker 1: at least in terms of how he liked to work. 681 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 1: I mean, he loved working in a quiet studio. And 682 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 1: in fact, you know, once he became pretty famous, he 683 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,880 Speaker 1: rarely went out in public because he was worried that 684 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 1: kids would want him to be kind of like the 685 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 1: cat in the hat, like this big, over the top, 686 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 1: gregarious figure, and so he actually stayed in because he 687 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,400 Speaker 1: was quote worried his fans would be disappointed by his 688 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:40,239 Speaker 1: reserved personality. Oh that's that's almost sad, But I do 689 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 1: like that a person who's definitely had this outsized influence 690 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 1: on society and kids and just making people happy in general, 691 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 1: is actually this poster boy for introversion. So I think 692 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,240 Speaker 1: we should quietly quietly tip our hats to Dr SEUs 693 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 1: and you can keep today's trophy. All right, Well, thanks 694 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 1: so much. This has been a really fun one. I 695 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,160 Speaker 1: know we've got lots of introverts, it's and extroverts out 696 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,279 Speaker 1: there who've been listening today, and we'd love to hear 697 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 1: some facts from you that we may have forgotten for 698 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: today's episode. You can always send those two part Time 699 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,719 Speaker 1: Genius at how stuff Works dot com or hit us 700 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 1: up on Facebook or Twitter, but it's always thanks so 701 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:30,280 Speaker 1: much for listening. Thanks again for listening. Part Time Genius 702 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 1: is a production of How Stuff Works and wouldn't be 703 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 1: possible without several brilliant people who do the important things 704 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 1: we couldn't even begin to understand. Tristan McNeil does the 705 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 1: editing thing. Noel Brown made the theme song and does 706 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 1: the mixy mixy sound thing. Jerry Rowland does the exact 707 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,960 Speaker 1: producer thing. Gabeluesier is our lead researcher, with support from 708 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 1: the research Army including Austin Thompson, Nolan Brown and Lucas 709 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,400 Speaker 1: Adams and Eve. Jeff Cook gets the show to your ears. 710 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 1: Good job, Eves. If you like what you heard, we 711 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,600 Speaker 1: hope you'll subscribe, And if you really really like what 712 00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 1: you've heard, maybe you could leave a good review for us. 713 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 1: Do we forget you? Jason who