WEBVTT - From Victim to Violence 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:04.120 From the dark corners of the web. An emerging mindset. 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:06.440 I'm a loser if also we know wouldn't pay me either. 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:10.879 A hidden world of resentment, cynicism, anger against women at 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:12.240 a deadly tipping point. 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:16.160 In Cells will be added to the terrorism Guide. I 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:18.560 see literally zero hope. 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:24.040 This is in Cells, a production of Kat's Studios and iHeartRadio, 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:30.960 Season one, episode five, From Victim to Violence. 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:36.160 So we're injured by women's beauty and so men often 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:39.520 see rape as getting even did you get any did 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:43.559 she put out she has, he wants, he gets or 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:44.120 he takes. 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:46.159 There's plenty of guys out there who hate women and 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:48.360 they do just fine. Okay, we don't live in some 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:48.880 just world. 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:53.560 Are you also complete genetic trash with no redeeming qualities? 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:59.400 I'm Courtney Armstrong, a producer at KATI Studios with Stephanie Leidecker. 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:06.520 Gave Castillo, Connor Powell, and Carolyn Miller. Last episode we 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:10.480 heard from three self described in cells. Hopelessness was a 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:14.759 reoccurring theme and the loneliness was palpable. We found them 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:18.360 mostly through Facebook and Reddit, but reaching another corner of 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:22.480 the community proved harder men who gather in darker online 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:28.480 spaces with angrier, more hostile perspectives. Investigative journalist Connor Powell 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:30.360 reminds us why this divide exists. 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:35.520 On the Intel discussion board intl dot co or insel 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:38.480 dot is, those names are all anonymous, they don't use 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:40.760 their real names. In fact, there was a whole discussion 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:45.160 thread about how you can best protect yourself, about protecting 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:49.240 your identity so that you can essentially post as angrily 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:53.280 as obscene as you want without having to have any repercussions. 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:57.080 And I think you see a lot more abusive language, 0:01:57.080 --> 0:02:00.120 a lot more sort of obscene language on this in 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:01.080 cell website. 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:05.160 Online anonymity means no repercussions for being nasty. 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:08.280 Add all this together and you get what psychologists call 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:13.640 the online disinhibition effect, and effectively it dictates that people 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:16.760 will do things online that they wouldn't do in the. 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:21.800 Real world because of the strict anonymity and security on 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:24.760 these forums. We weren't able to speak directly with the men, 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:28.040 but we wanted you to hear their own words. It's 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:31.880 important to understand exactly what's being discussed and internalized by 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:35.480 young men. Connor share some of these conversations and forum 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:39.800 posts with crime Analyst, Body Movement Listener. Warning, some of 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:42.520 the language you'll hear in this episode is offensive. 0:02:45.560 --> 0:02:47.360 When you look at some of the posts, there are 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:49.680 some that are sort of indicative of the conversations that 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:51.480 are happening in regular and this is just what I 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:55.680 found yesterday. The headline of this thread is called which type. 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:56.399 Of women do you hate? 0:02:56.480 --> 0:02:56.760 More? 0:02:57.040 --> 0:02:58.840 Ugly women or pretty women? 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:01.480 And you know, the first post is, well, that's a 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:04.240 difficult question for me to answer. I hate both, to 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:08.440 be honest, And then the thread conversation goes sort of 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:11.840 sort of self loathing to loathing of the women. One 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:14.680 person says, you know, both would tear me apart because 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:17.160 the moment I show any interest and try to make 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:19.560 a move, they would sort of destroy me. It sort 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:24.320 of goes back and forth, but it's all very derogatory 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:27.040 towards the women. It's about the ugly women are the 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:29.919 cruelest or the pretty women are the cruelest. This type 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:32.480 of conversation is what you see play out really in 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:34.840 almost every thread on this discussion board. 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:38.440 Viewing it from the outside, it's almost like they like 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:42.760 this self hatred and they want to wallow in it. 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:46.200 But there's other ones about like it pisses me off, 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:49.840 how men pay for everything is the norm, and then 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:52.880 there's a whole discussion about how much these members on 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:57.000 this website hate, how men are responsible for pay for dates, 0:03:57.240 --> 0:04:02.040 for mortgages, nights out, and about women sort of being useless. 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:05.360 The men are responsible everything, and it's very much the 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:07.640 men are the victim, and that's what you see time 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:08.400 and time again. 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:11.040 So on one hand they're complaining they're not dating right, 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:13.360 and on the other hand they're complaining that if they 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:15.240 do date, they're not to pay for it too. 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:16.800 Exactly exactly. 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:21.680 We spoke with a self identified Inceel who goes by 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:26.080 Brian about his experiences with dating, feeling taken advantage of, 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:29.760 and rejection. It's a glimpse at how real world pain 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:33.279 can spill over and sometimes twist into the anger we 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:34.400 see on these forums. 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:40.480 When you're young, you're always trying. I mean, it's just 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:44.560 testosterone hormones. When you're young, you feel like you need 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:48.279 a woman. I always tried. I'd go to nightclubs, I 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:53.280 tried dating sites and things like that, and nothing was working. 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:58.920 And I had some success, but it was not real success. 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:02.160 The kind of women that I would get and it 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:04.760 didn't happen often, but the kind that I did, they 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:05.760 would always. 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:10.359 Have a alterior motive, like they would want money or 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:13.640 something like that, or you know, didn't want to constantly 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:17.080 go out so that you could afford their lifestyle, you 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:17.520 know what I mean. 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:22.640 We asked Brian if you had an example of a 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:25.720 woman having the kind of ulterior motive he described. 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:30.400 I'll give you an example. I did go on it. 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.320 I can't even call it a date. That tells you 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:36.280 how bad it is for me, because it was more 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:41.080 like a scam. I went out with a woman and 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:43.760 we went to see a movie and that went well. 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:46.359 Of course, it went well because you don't have to talk. 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:49.560 And after I didn't know what to do, and she 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:52.480 kind of took charge and she's like, let's go drinking. 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:57.240 So I went drinking with her, and then she invited 0:05:57.240 --> 0:06:00.320 her sister to come, and I don't even think it 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:03.320 was really her sisters, and we didn't really talk. They 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:07.200 just partied and by the end of the night I 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:10.120 got the bill for all the drinks. I mean, nothing happened. 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:14.040 They just party together and drank and you know, by 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:15.680 the end of the night, I ended up paying like 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:18.600 three hundred bucks for you know what I mean like that. 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:23.559 That's been my experience and that was years ago. That's 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:26.440 the kind of experiences I've had. I never got to 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:30.000 chance to really get to know or loving, and they 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:31.560 never got a chance to get to know me. 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:36.960 Here's doctor Rob Whitley. He is a professor of psychiatry 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:40.200 at McGill University and has been studying men's mental health 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:43.720 for over twenty years. He wrote a book called Men's 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:47.599 Issues and Men's Mental Health. Doctor Whitley talks about why 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.200 in cells may in fact be less desirable in the 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:54.120 dating pool, as in being looked over is not in 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:54.920 their imagination. 0:06:57.040 --> 0:06:59.839 There's another effect which is very relevant to this discussion, 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:04.800 which is that of gender related mating preferences or dating preferences. 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:07.839 The average man and the average woman has a template 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:10.760 in mind about who is the ideal partner, and if 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:13.960 we look at female dating preferences, there is research that 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:17.880 shows that the type of profile that the typical in 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:21.840 cell meets is very low in terms of desirability for 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:23.280 female dating preferences. 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:28.600 Doctor Whitley breaks it down looking at why some men 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:31.560 actually may be shut out or overlooked when it comes 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:32.040 to dating. 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:36.560 Many in cells have a lower level of education, many 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:40.000 of them are unemployed, many of them have mental health issues. 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:43.640 Whereas female dating prefators and male dating prefaces are typically 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:46.960 looking for somebody who's employed, who's successful, who's well established, 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:50.120 perhaps who's involved in sports or has a certain type 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:53.080 of masculinity and a certain type of physicality and a 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:55.880 certain type of energy, and the in cells do not 0:07:55.960 --> 0:08:01.400 fit that profile, and therefore their interpretation that society is 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:04.480 a difficult place for them is matched by the social 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:08.120 scientific research in terms of searching for and accomplishing and 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:10.440 achieving romantic or sexual relationships. 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:16.120 We continued speaking with experts from different fields about how dating, 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.000 both the reality and idea of it, shapes the in 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:22.680 cell world. Here's doctor Sarah Day, whose work on in 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:26.560 cells began from an unexpected research path that led her here. 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:32.360 At PhD and master's degree in criminal justice. And then 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:35.120 while I was in my doctoral program, I studied mass shootings. 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:38.000 I started this around the time of Sandy Hook, and 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:42.480 I eventually began really exhausted by that. It's emotional work. 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:45.280 So as I was thinking about something to pivot to, 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:47.920 I came back to thinking about how many men who 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:51.760 were mass shooters were really aggrieved and targeted women. When 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:55.040 I came across in cells in twenty eighteen and I 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:57.800 initially started on their sites, and since then I've been 0:08:57.800 --> 0:08:59.120 interviewing a lot of in. 0:08:59.120 --> 0:08:59.960 Cels by public. 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:03.439 A lot of articles have brief local, state, and federal 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:09.480 agencies about it. Doctor Daily continues with their thoughts on 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:13.120 in cells dating and how early expectations around love can 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:17.480 become damaging when they go unmet. I think men and 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:20.480 women alike are told from a very young age that 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:23.160 when you grow up, you'll meet somebody, you'll get married. 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:27.319 I think that's typically been viewed as a woman's stereotype, right, 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:29.400 that we look forward to our wedding day. But I 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:32.200 think wanting to be paired and be loved is a 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:36.240 natural human response, and when that doesn't happen, you're missing 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:39.720 major milestones in your life. 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:45.319 Connor continues reading excerpts from INSUL forums. Even in the 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.040 language they use, you can hear how missing key life 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:51.280 milestones could lead to a kind of arrested development, a 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:53.760 more adolescent way of expressing themselves. 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:59.400 Well, then you also see people sort of trying to 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:01.959 control their urges, and one of the threads I came 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:05.200 across was was entitled thinking about sex all the time 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:08.600 as a normy faggot trait, And then you sort of 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:11.360 see them as they try to push back and not 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:15.319 engage with women and not engage with their sexual desires. 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:18.960 That then they also attacking themselves and people who have 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:20.480 relationships and sex. 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:22.559 And then it looks back to I don't even want 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:23.319 to be a part. 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:26.600 Of those groups and societies, but they also do want 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:28.359 to be a part of those groups and societies. 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:35.840 Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:58.800 a moment. Doctor Michael Kimmel is a professor emeritus of 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:03.480 sociology and Studies at Stonybrook University in New York. He's 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:09.200 written extensively about masculinity, and his books include Manhood in America, Guyland, 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:12.600 and Angry White Men. The last one explores why so 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:16.120 many American men feel angry and how that frustration connects 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:18.800 to in cell culture and the challenges they face in 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:20.160 dating and relationships. 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:25.240 They're now starting to think, well, what's wrong? Why have 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:27.440 I not been able to do that? Now? Prior to 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:31.480 the year, say, two thousand, these guys would have been 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:35.520 sitting alone miserable going to a bar. Perhaps they're the 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:37.520 guys who would have been yelling at the walls of 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:40.400 a subway station at two in the morning. But now 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:43.719 there's social media, now there's the Internet, and instead of 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:47.199 yelling in the abandoned subway station, they yell on the internet. 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:49.719 And some other guy comes along and go, oh, yeah, man, 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:52.440 I feel your pain. I think this. You know. The 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:56.400 reason is because those women they I will refrain from 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:58.840 using the kind of words that they would use. Those 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:01.960 women just won't let you get any It's their fault. 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.920 So now you have something that was missing twenty five 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:08.800 years ago, and what was missing with social support, and 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:12.959 it's social support from other men for this strange idea 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:16.160 that I am not getting what I'm entitled to, and 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:18.160 it's their fault. 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:22.679 Doctor Kimmel explains what contributed to the emergence of inceel 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:25.880 identity and the sense of entitlement that often goes along 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:27.240 with it. 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:31.520 It's a collision of two phenomena. One is the fact 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:35.800 that girl power and women are far more sexually aware, 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:39.320 agentic out there in the public sphere. They're not quiet, 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:42.240 they're not demure, They're loud and proud and it's fantastic. 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:47.559 They've entered every workplace arena. And so women's presence, women's sexuality, 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:51.400 women's ownership of their sexuality, means that women know that 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:54.040 they can like sex and want it. Now, that's one thing. 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:59.160 The other piece is the dominant emotional experience of in 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:02.640 cells is what I call aggrieved entitlement. And let me 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:05.080 look at each of those words, because I think that 0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:10.720 the idea of the intell idea, the founding ideology, is entitlement. 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:16.960 Doctor Kimmel shares an experience that first sparked his thinking 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:20.440 of aggrieved entitlement. He was on a TV talk show 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:22.760 opposite four wet men who believed that they were the 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:27.080 victims of reverse discrimination in the workplace. They shared stories 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:29.600 about how they were qualified for jobs they didn't get, 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:34.839 and doctor Kimmel was brought on to respond to them. 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:37.880 The title of this particular episode of the show was 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:40.200 a quote from one of the men, a black woman 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:42.960 stole my job. So when it was my turn to speak, 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:45.360 I just said, I have one question for you guys 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:48.320 about this, and it's about the title of the show, 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:51.200 A black woman stole my job. Actually, I want to 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:53.680 know about the word my where did you get the 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:57.320 idea it was your job? Why isn't the title a 0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:00.120 black woman got the job or a black woman got 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:03.880 a job. Because without confronting men's sense of entitlement, will 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:08.040 never understand why so many men believe that gender equality 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:10.199 is a zero sum game and that if women, women 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:17.920 are going to lose. Now, that's what entitlement sounds like. I, 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:20.640 as a man, was in a benign sort of way. 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:24.000 I was raised to believe that one day I will 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:27.640 fall in love, get married, and have children, and that 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:31.800 sort of includes having sex. And in a less benign way, 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.360 you might quote the president, you know grammed by the pussy, 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:38.200 they let you do it. You're entitled to women's bodies. 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:40.840 You're entitled to access to women's bodies. 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:46.560 He discusses the language many men use when describing women's 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:50.240 beauty and how those word choices can reinforce the idea 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:54.960 that women are manipulative, dangerous, or somehow out to get men. 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:01.160 Years and years ago are really really smart. Journalist wrote 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:03.440 a book called Men on Rape, and he talked about 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:08.200 how the metaphors we use to describe women's beauty, very 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:12.000 many of them are words of violence against men. She's 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:16.200 a knockout, a bombshell dressed to kill right, So we're 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:20.240 injured by women's beauty, and so men often see rape 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:23.800 as getting even, Like we're you've done a violence to 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:26.840 us just by being hot and gorgeous and accessible and 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:30.240 wearing a short skirt or whatever, so that that's an 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:33.600 injury to us. Now we're one down. We have to 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:37.280 get even, and getting even means taking what we want. 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:40.600 Did you get any did she put out? She has? 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:44.920 He wants, he gets, or he takes. That's what entitlement 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:49.000 sounds like. Sexual entitlement means you have something I want, 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:52.240 and if I want it, I'm gonna get it. And 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:55.040 that's why some of these men actually believe, for example, 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:58.720 that rape with sexual assault is really just dating by 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:01.600 another term. 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:05.000 Connor shares another excerpt from an in cell forum with 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:06.720 crime analyst Body Movin. 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:11.160 One of the ones I'm looking at right now is 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:13.040 again the threat is called if you don't have at 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:16.240 least a seven point three inch cock, no foid will ever. 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:16.880 Have sex with you. 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:20.080 Even if she has, that foid will never be satisfied. 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:24.360 The conversation then sort of devolves into a a whole 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:27.360 back and forth about sex, whether or not the women 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:28.360 would ever be happy. 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:30.040 These conversations just. 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:32.840 Go all over the place, but all of the language 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:35.800 is just pretty offensive, which goes back to what we 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:39.480 were talking about. Why they are so concerned about having 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:42.040 their true identities pop up is that they know that 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:45.000 this stuff, if it got out generally, could do damage 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:49.600 to their real world personas, their jobs, their families, their relationships. 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:52.120 Then the perception is that they just simply want to 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:55.720 live in this online space one way and live in 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:57.160 the real world another way. 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:00.640 It's almost like the real world is their mass right. 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:03.560 What I find interesting too is the transition from Stacy's 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:07.640 to foids. It really dehumanizes women. Okay, so they were 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:11.639 Stacy's in the transition to foids is interesting. It's female humanoid. 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:15.720 It really kind of depersonalizes these women. In my mind, 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:17.840 that's what I think of when I hear the term foid. 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:20.879 It's just very depersonalized, you know. It's it's almost like 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:22.359 we're not people. 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:31.680 Doctor David Lee is a clinical psychologist, sex therapist, and writer. 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:35.399 He further explains foids and how the use of that 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:38.400 term perpetuates misogyny and hatred. 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:41.000 One of the ones that I think is a little 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:45.560 sad and really really emphasizes the core misogyny here is 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:49.080 that they oftentimes in the NZEL community refer to women 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:54.120 as foid and that means female humanoid, because they don't 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:57.840 want to give them the benefit the credit of being 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:01.120 a person of being human. And I think that that 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:08.600 just really underscores how much misogyny, hatred, and fear of 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:12.359 women is driving so much of the INZEL community. 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:19.960 Language is important, especially when it starts getting thrown around repeatedly. 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:23.600 For young boys eleven, twelve, fourteen years old to ingest 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:28.160 and start using it can begin to shape young worldviews dangerously. 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:32.119 Here again doctor Sarah Daly, who holds a PhD in 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:36.800 criminal justice. She talks about the link between victimhood and violence. 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:42.080 I think if we think about in cell violence relative 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:45.560 to the number of in cels online, it's not a lot, 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:48.120 which I think we're lucky about, but I mean, any 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:51.159 act of violence is too much. But most of the 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:55.040 in cels online share this notion of victimhood and frustration 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:57.680 and loneliness. And when we look at the ones who 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:01.880 have committed violence from their manifesi festos, from their posts, 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:05.399 the ones who we've seen that have committed violence are 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:07.680 the ones who have moved all of their anger outward. 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:08.080 Right. 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:12.760 Lots of in cells view themselves as being ugly or 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:16.560 weird or not worthy, But the most infamous inzels who've 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:20.000 committed violence directed their anger outwards. It is at women, 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:24.119 it's at society, it's at everyone who bullied them. So, 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:27.359 like all the other perpetrators of mass violence, their attack 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:31.160 becomes like an act of revenge and an active strength 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:33.440 after a lifetime of being viewed as weak. 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:39.560 Elliott Roger is an incell who murdered six innocent people 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:44.920 and injured fourteen more in twenty fourteen. He left behind 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:48.960 a lengthy written manifesto and posted a retribution video to 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:53.480 YouTube before he took his own life to end the rampage. 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:59.320 All those popular kids who live such lives of hedonistic pleasure, 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:01.879 while I've had to rotten loneliness for all these years, 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:06.440 they've all looked down upon me. I'll be a god 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:12.040 exacting my retribution and all those who deserve it, And 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:15.240 you do deserve it, just for the crime of living 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:20.000 a better life than me. Oh, you popular kids, you've 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:23.760 never accepted me. Now you'll all pay for it. 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:30.960 Sickeningly, Roger is held up as an icon, a hero, 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:35.200 referred to as a literal saint by some in cels. 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:40.440 Doctor Daily continues referencing Roger's impact. 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:46.800 Victimhood is the common bond with in cells. As much 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:49.480 as he wants to be a very alpha male in 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:52.680 this right saying that women should be caged in things, 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:56.240 I think he wants to be seen as a victim, 0:20:56.720 --> 0:21:00.600 and so in cells that we do view him in 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:04.320 this way. Understand this lifetime of hurt and this lack 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:07.000 of friendship. And unfortunately, this is a part of American 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:10.520 culture that when you are not viewed as a strong man, 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:14.480 a gun and killing people is viewed as an act 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:17.119 of strength. We as a society no better. But for 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:21.240 those people who are homicidal, violent, this is an active 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:25.159 of revenge. And if we look at societally, you know 0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:28.320 strong men, we look at men are who are violent 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:32.000 action movies, Rambo, right, take your pick. So this is 0:21:32.080 --> 0:21:34.320 kind of an act of violent masculinity. 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:38.680 Connor and Body discuss a final thread from the insull 0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:42.240 forums that illuminates the profound self loathing common and in 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:45.159 cell communities and what that can lead to. 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:50.160 There's a thread that says, are you also complete genetic 0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:53.879 trash with no redeeming qualities? I have no self worth, 0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:55.919 I have no value to society. 0:21:56.240 --> 0:21:56.439 You know. 0:21:56.560 --> 0:21:58.800 I spoke to one person who said, I try to 0:21:58.840 --> 0:22:01.560 stay off of these websites. It's because they bring me down. 0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:04.800 They make me feel worse, they make me hate women more, 0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:07.800 But they also make me hate myself more as well. 0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:11.480 Right, because it's feeding, right, it's like self sustaining hatred. 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:13.360 It's feeding that negative energy. 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:17.399 Yeah, I mean the genetic trash comment. It just shows 0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:20.439 a complete lack of self worth on their side, and 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:23.240 so you see them sort of attacking themselves but then 0:22:23.520 --> 0:22:26.680 taking that anger and frustration about themselves and their self 0:22:26.720 --> 0:22:28.280 worth out on women as well. 0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:31.960 Viewing it from the outside, it's almost like they like 0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:36.720 this self hatred and they want to wallow in it. 0:22:36.880 --> 0:22:38.920 Exactly exactly. It's victimhood too. 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:41.960 I think victimhood is a big talking point when it 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:44.000 comes to in cells. They want to be the victim. 0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:46.240 It's real easy to say I'm not successful and like 0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:49.200 because I'm a victim instead of actually trying and failing 0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:52.399 and trying and failing and trying and succeeding. Right, you 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:54.639 have to keep trying, and it's so much easier to 0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:57.040 sit back in your computer chair and be like, it's 0:22:57.160 --> 0:22:58.240 none of this is my fault. 0:22:58.440 --> 0:22:59.200 I'm the victim. 0:22:59.520 --> 0:23:02.679 To that point point, there were discussions on Facebook and 0:23:02.760 --> 0:23:05.719 read it about people trying to better themselves, and you 0:23:05.840 --> 0:23:09.399 saw self described in cells as offering advice and support 0:23:09.440 --> 0:23:12.800 in that effort. I can't find any of that type 0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:16.320 of support and advice on insul is. It is all 0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:18.680 just vitriolic hatred. 0:23:23.520 --> 0:23:26.800