1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Hey, hurdlers. Emily a Body here with another installment of 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: Hurdle Moment from Hurdle, a podcast that doctor everyone from 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: entrepreneurs to top CEOs and athletes about how they got 4 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: through tough times hurdles of sorts by leaning into wellness. Today, 5 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,600 Speaker 1: I'm going to be diving into a little bit more 6 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: about the topic of injury. I got a lot of 7 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: really great feedback from you guys after I posted the 8 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: how to Deal with Injury Hurdle Moment, and I knew 9 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: that I needed to get a little bit deeper, so 10 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:34,959 Speaker 1: I reached out to my friend Blake. He is a 11 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: physical therapist at Bespoke Treatments in Midtown. Let me tell 12 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: you the guys, they are the team there and they're outstanding, 13 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: highly recommended them. They have gotten me through hell and 14 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 1: back when it comes to really scary injuries that come 15 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: a little too close to raise base sometimes and I'm 16 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: so grateful for them. So I reached out to Blake 17 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: and we sat down and talked a little bit more 18 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: about the topic of injury. Before you get to more 19 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: on that, a quick shout out to a Hurdle Moment's 20 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: sponsor this week, Wollaco guys, last week's event that I 21 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 1: had with Wollaco was one of the most special things 22 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: I have done since starting hurdle. You know, I have 23 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: a lot of fun at these live podcast events, but 24 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: this was different. You know, we went for that run, 25 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: but then we came back and he had an open, 26 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: vulnerable dialogue about some of the tough stuff that we're 27 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: going through these days. I'd say the nine as a 28 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: whole just really embodied what Wollaco is all about, not 29 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: only making really great product. I personally am in love 30 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: with their Walker Crop tank, but also just the desire 31 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 1: to connect with their consumer on a deeper level. If 32 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: you're in the New York City area and you want 33 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: to get involved, definitely check out their Walllico Wednesdays. You 34 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: can get all of the details on their early morning 35 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: weekly workouts in the description to this episode. And now, 36 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: as for what Leg and I get into today, it's 37 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: a lot about when you need to take a break, 38 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: when it's okay to push forward. He actually shed some 39 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: light on this idea that if you have an injury, 40 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: a lot of the time, the good news is that 41 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: you can keep running, you can keep doing activity, although 42 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: maybe not in the same capacity. That you started out 43 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 1: your mission, like I said September, is all about running. 44 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: It's all about marathon training for these hurdle moments leaning 45 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 1: up to a lot of these fall marathons. If you're running, 46 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: if you have any questions you want answered, definitely reach 47 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: out to me over DM or on email. It's at 48 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: Emily a Body at Hurdle Podcasts and of course as 49 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: always Emily at hurdle dot Us. With that, let's get 50 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: to hurdling. All right, So injury, it sucks, it's no fun. 51 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: That's the worst. Have you ever been seriously injured? 52 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 2: Yeah? 53 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been taken away, I've been in a boot 54 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 3: head stress practures pretty much. We could go from the 55 00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 3: toes all the way up to the low back. You 56 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 3: could probably name at least ten. 57 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's give the hurdlers a little bit of context 58 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: on your personal running background, aside from now being a 59 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 1: physical therapist. 60 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 2: Sure. 61 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, So I grew up playing pretty much every sport. 62 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 3: Soccer was kind of the main focus until I got 63 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 3: eighth grade and then middle school. Eighth grade I switched 64 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:18,679 Speaker 3: more to running, and then by high school I was 65 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 3: running full time, so across country track a mile two mile, 66 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 3: I was on a four by eighteen. Then I went 67 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 3: to college Indiana University, ran track and cross country there, 68 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:31,799 Speaker 3: came here to New York, and I took it a nice, 69 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 3: solid three year retirement, and then just within the last 70 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 3: couple of years, I've been getting back into the swing 71 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 3: of things. 72 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: How's it feel. 73 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 2: It's good, it's fun. It's fun to be in shape. 74 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 3: It's it's not fun getting in shape, but it's a 75 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 3: lot of fun when you're in the group of things. 76 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 3: And it's a great way to meet people too. I mean, 77 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 3: that was one of the big biggest reasons I jumped 78 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 3: back into running, was being able to meet people be 79 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 3: part of that community again. 80 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: One hundred percent. Okay, so let's talk about running injuries. 81 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: Running is tough. We know this. So it's like, I 82 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: feel as though I'm constantly hovering on this line of 83 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: like doing all the things and not doing enough things. 84 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: And when I'm not doing enough that's really more so 85 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: I find when I'm getting injured, when I'm not warming up, 86 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: when i'm not pooling down, when I'm thinking that I 87 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: can run like once or twice during the week and 88 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 1: then go kill a long run just because of time constraints. Yeah, 89 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 1: is that something you see often? 90 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:21,119 Speaker 2: Totally. 91 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's all running is always kind of this delicate 92 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 3: balance between doing too much or doing too little. I 93 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 3: think what I've learned over the last you know, fifteen 94 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 3: years of running is a nice way to kind of 95 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 3: optimize my time, because time is always an issue for 96 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 3: everybody in the working professional world, especially when you're trying 97 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 3: to juggle work in life and marathon training all at once. 98 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 3: So figuring out what's the best, what's the most efficient 99 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 3: way to optimize your training so you're not spending you know, 100 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 3: thirty minutes on a warm up, thirty minutes on. 101 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 2: A cool down and then you have to go out 102 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 2: for an hour run. 103 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 3: Right, Sometimes it's just being it's all about kind of 104 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:54,919 Speaker 3: figuring out what's the most important for that day and 105 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 3: then knocking out of the park. 106 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: Okay, so obviously there are different types of injuries, but 107 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 1: on broad scale, talk to me about like when dull 108 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: pain versus regular pain versus extreme pain, Like when should 109 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: someone actually go seek out some help. 110 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, so running injuries, they're gonna happen. The aches and 111 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 3: pains are just sort of part of being a runner. 112 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 3: You know, you're constantly sort of trying to progress through 113 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 3: training program, whether. 114 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 2: That's with speed or with volume. 115 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 3: You're always changing these variables trying to squeez out a 116 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 3: little bit of fitness. So anytime you throw a new 117 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 3: variable into your training plan, you're gonna have a little 118 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 3: bit of an ac and pain, or. 119 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 2: At least you can expect it. It's not not an 120 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 2: uncommon thing. 121 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 3: So eggs and pains are normal with running, and they 122 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 3: have generally happen and last for about one to three days, 123 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 3: and I'd consider that a normal pain. So something that 124 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 3: lasts for up to three days usually gets better with 125 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 3: time and isn't anywhere over like a two to four 126 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 3: at a ten pain level, it can be, there can 127 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 3: be some sharpness to it. 128 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 2: It's just one of those things. 129 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 3: You kind of need to proceed with caution and kind 130 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 3: of monitor your symptoms daily. 131 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 2: Was to better than yesterday? Was today worse than yesterday? 132 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 3: What do I need to change to kind of reduce 133 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 3: the stress to this area? And then there's abnormal pain 134 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 3: when I consider those things that last for longer than 135 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 3: a week, things that are over like a five or 136 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 3: six out of ten pain, things that are causing you 137 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 3: to compensate or change the way that you're running, those 138 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 3: are things that are abnormal and that at that point 139 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 3: you might want to consider seeking a medical consult. It's 140 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,119 Speaker 3: not something that you want to that kind of linger 141 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 3: for too too long. On the opposite side of that, 142 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 3: there's rest, which is almost always what people revert to. 143 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 3: And it makes total sense that if a body part 144 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 3: is being injured or hurts, and you know, hurts to run, 145 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 3: let's just take like two weeks totally off. And the 146 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 3: problem with resting is that while you're resting, and this 147 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 3: is most often what happens is the total rest without 148 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 3: any sort of supplementation through strength or cross training, is 149 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 3: that it's just a full kind of bed rest or 150 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 3: no running or exercising. And then what happens when you 151 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 3: do that is as you've rested that two weeks, you 152 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 3: might be out of pain, at least in the short term, 153 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 3: but as soon as you get back to running, the 154 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 3: tissue that you've been rehabbing and resting is in a 155 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 3: weaker state than it was before. It's it's atrophy, whether 156 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 3: it's bone, whether it's tendon or muscle, they all sort 157 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 3: of respond in the same same manner, and so when 158 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 3: you go back to running, in that weekend state, You've 159 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 3: just had a heightened increase for future injuries. So you're 160 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 3: kind of in this negative cycle of you know, injury, 161 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 3: I'm going to rest it, I'm weaker now, and then 162 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 3: I get back to running and I injure myself again 163 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 3: and just kind of just this downward spiral. 164 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: So let's talk about then, some of the most popular 165 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: or commonly seen running injuries, because I mean, right out 166 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: the top of my head, I think about runners knee, 167 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: I think about Shin's blends, I think about probably pureformist syndrome. 168 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 1: So what do you got for me? 169 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 2: Totally? 170 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll the above those are all really important areas 171 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 3: that we use for running. So you know, the runner's 172 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 3: knee tendinopathies are a big one. Tendonitis, whether it's in 173 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 3: the achilles or the hip, it band is sort of 174 00:07:58,400 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 3: treated as a tendonitis as well. 175 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 2: The yeah, runners needs a big one. Calf complex injuries, 176 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 2: whether it's a strain or or tenonitis, that's another big one. Pureformist. 177 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 3: All of these generally are are overuse injuries or you've 178 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 3: done too much too soon, too quickly, whether that's you've 179 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 3: you've ramped up your intensity too much, or you've ramped 180 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 3: up your volume too much, or maybe you added hills 181 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 3: that weren't part of your training plan a week ago, 182 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 3: and a lot of them can be prevented by by 183 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 3: building up strength. Right, So, if you know you're prone 184 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 3: to pureformist syndrome, or you know you're prone to knee 185 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 3: runner's knee, there's definitely strengthening and capacity you can build 186 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 3: in these areas, whether it's the hip orne or calf 187 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 3: uh to keep those injuries at bay and protect yourself 188 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 3: from from developing them in the first place. 189 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: So you stand by something called the guests and check method. Yeah, 190 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: so talk to me about that, sure. 191 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. 192 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,319 Speaker 3: So, like for specifically, like a returning to run sort 193 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 3: of plan, it's it's there's no cookie cutter, there's no 194 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 3: like calculated formula that you can use. So when somebody's 195 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 3: injured and they're not able to run to their full capacity, 196 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 3: that load needs to be managed somehow. Right, So you're 197 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 3: not able to run at one hundred percent like you 198 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 3: used to, we might need to considered cross training, we 199 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 3: might need to consider a run walk program. 200 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:13,359 Speaker 2: We needed to. 201 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 3: Decrease the load into your total system so that your 202 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 3: body has the ability to recover and adapt to the 203 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 3: stresses and rehab exercises that you're doing. So a lot 204 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 3: of the clients I have now are more of that 205 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 3: return to run sort of client where we're not just 206 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,199 Speaker 3: coaching for performance, but we're really kind of guiding through 207 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 3: an injury. And so that requires a lot of guests 208 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 3: in check, where it's a lot of the next day, like, hey, 209 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 3: how'd you feel in the run yesterday? Because usually it's 210 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 3: that next morning where you can kind of gauge if 211 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 3: the day before was enough stress or too little stress. 212 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 3: And so especially with those clients, it's a constant guess 213 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 3: and check. You're constantly modifying things, changing certain variables, whether 214 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,599 Speaker 3: it shoe wear or intensity or some of the exercises 215 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 3: you're doing to specifically load. 216 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:57,079 Speaker 2: These areas. 217 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 3: A lot of times with like more of a performance 218 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 3: I path that you can get away with like setting 219 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 3: a week plan ahead of time and saying, okay, I'll 220 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 3: speak with you in a week. But with the with 221 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,439 Speaker 3: the injury type stuff, so much can happen within a week. 222 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 3: You know, you can can be feeling great one day 223 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 3: and then the next day you know you don't feel 224 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 3: so great, and so it's a conversation that you need 225 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 3: to have with a person figuring out what the day 226 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 3: before did we do that might have triggered. 227 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 2: These sort of symptoms. 228 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 1: I think what people struggle with also is just this 229 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: idea of cross training not being what was on the 230 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: original plan. I think often, you know, with an injury, 231 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: whether it is maybe like a strained hamstring or which 232 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: is just a nightmare, or something again like shin splints, 233 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 1: where cross training is recommended, getting in the pool just 234 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:41,439 Speaker 1: feels so different than hitting or run. So for the 235 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 1: people that have been advised or been offered that type 236 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: of advice, what do you say to them? 237 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I think cross training has a ton of 238 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,199 Speaker 3: really great benefit and sometimes it's necessary even when you 239 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 3: are healthy. It's a nice way to get a little 240 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:54,959 Speaker 3: bit extra volume without loading your body too much and 241 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 3: breaching that barrier. At the same time, it's terribly boring, 242 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 3: you know, to sit on a try mill or a 243 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 3: bike or elliptical for an hour, because that's another thing. 244 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,559 Speaker 3: You can sit on these devices for, you know, one 245 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 3: and a half time to what you'd normally be running, 246 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 3: because you're not loading your body to the degree that 247 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 3: you would be if you were out there pounding your 248 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 3: feet all the time. So to get a good aerobic benefit, 249 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 3: you might need to go for a little bit longer 250 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 3: on some of these cross daring machines, but it's a 251 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 3: great way to still get stressed into the body. That's 252 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 3: one of the that's one of the things we just 253 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:25,959 Speaker 3: kind of talked about was rest. Rest is almost never 254 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 3: the answer, right. We should never just kind of be 255 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:30,079 Speaker 3: sitting and waiting out this injury to go down. Crosstrating 256 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 3: is an important piece, and what I always tell people 257 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 3: is try and make it as specific to running as possible. 258 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 3: So elliptical in my mind, is kind of one of 259 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 3: those things where you're still on your feet. 260 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 2: It's a still more reciprocal bipedal motion. 261 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 3: You know, you're you're working the legs in a similar fashion, 262 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 3: at least more similar to running than you would be 263 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 3: say like swimming. Right, So swimming is a total anti 264 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 3: gravity motion. Even aqua jogging, it's it's anti gravity. It's similar, 265 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 3: like you're turning the legs over, but it's not quite 266 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,719 Speaker 3: the same. So I usually trying to get people on 267 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 3: the elliptical if I can, that's usually my go to. 268 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 3: That's usually the one that people don't like the least, 269 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 3: but yeah, I think it's that one of the best. 270 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 1: Okay, So then the question arises, when do you draw 271 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: the line between deciding Okay, I can manage this and 272 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: pushed forward versus I need to abort. 273 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 3: It's totally person dependent, right, depends on the injury, depends 274 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 3: on the person's training age, you know, how long and 275 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 3: how much experience they have with running. It depends on 276 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 3: the severity of symptoms. So in general, with tenanopathies, what 277 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 3: tendonitis sort of symptoms that have been longer than just 278 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:41,959 Speaker 3: that tendonitis acute phase, things that are kind of going 279 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 3: more into the week. Plus, uh, those those teninopathy issues, 280 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 3: we're pushing a lot more. 281 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:49,679 Speaker 2: Than we used to. In the P two world. 282 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 3: Used to be just kind of you know, ice stretch, 283 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 3: you know, roll, those sorts of things. But what we 284 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 3: know about tendons is that they respond really well to loading, 285 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 3: and so you need to kind of strike that balance 286 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 3: between loading too much and irritating the tendon and loading 287 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 3: too little where the tendon's not getting stronger. Really similar 288 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 3: to a muscle where if you were to do one 289 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 3: hundred bicep curls, your arm would be sore, but you 290 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,439 Speaker 3: know you're going to get stronger, the muscle's going to 291 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 3: grow really similar with the tendon. You're going to get 292 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 3: some of that growth and some of that positive benefit 293 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,959 Speaker 3: and adaptation from a loading program. Again, it's just it's 294 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 3: something that can't be done too much, but it's also 295 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 3: something you don't want to do too little of, So 296 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 3: resting is no good, and then continuing to run or 297 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 3: push things might not be too good either. That said, 298 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 3: with some of the tendinopathy issues, it's I totally give 299 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 3: people the okay to run, knowing that running itself is 300 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 3: a positive stress. 301 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 2: So you consider running. 302 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 3: Apply metric exercise right, and you're bounding from one leg 303 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 3: to the next, and in some ways it's the best 304 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 3: exercise for running as long as it's dosed appropriately. So 305 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 3: as long as the tendinopathy is mild enough and they're 306 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 3: not experiencing any more than like a five sometimes six 307 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 3: out of ten pain, then I said tended up is 308 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 3: one of those things that you can sort of train through. 309 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 2: Generally as a general states general, Yeah. 310 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 3: But it's totally person dependent and case dependent, and you 311 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:12,719 Speaker 3: need to make sure that all that's backed up with 312 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:16,079 Speaker 3: the appropriate strength program as well, because that's that's what's 313 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 3: laying the foundation for a lot of this uh, that's 314 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 3: what's going to allow you to run in the future. 315 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: I know last year I was dealing with a little 316 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: bit of ham string stress, and all of the work 317 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: that I did was completely contingent on just strengthening, whether 318 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: it was single like deadlifts or squats or just some 319 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: things to kind of add some strength to that area. 320 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: And within you know, two and a half weeks of 321 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: consistent strength program, which is something that I should be 322 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: doing all the time, I felt a dramatic difference in 323 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: how it was handling my running. 324 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 3: It's a little counterintuitive, right, because you've just strained this 325 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 3: muscle by exercising it too hard, So why would the 326 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 3: why would the remedy. 327 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 2: Be to put more exercise into it? Right? 328 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 3: But as long as it's dost appropriately and you're not 329 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 3: breaching that capacity that your hamspring. 330 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 2: Can handle, it's going to bond. 331 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 3: Well, that's that's essentially what happens when when you exercise 332 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 3: to that limit, is you're you have these micro tears 333 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 3: of their muscle fiber, and then the body responds by 334 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 3: building that backed on. 335 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 2: So same thing with a hamstring tear. 336 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: I think you're kind of a knight in shining armor 337 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: by telling people that in most cases they can keep 338 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: running totally. 339 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's why I like, I want to get 340 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 2: on the phone with people. 341 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 3: I want to like have people into the office as 342 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 3: soon as like they have something, because almost always there's 343 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 3: a training modification that can be made, or there's uh, 344 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 3: you know, a slight modification to their training that they 345 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 3: can do, they'll keep them running. So almost never in 346 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 3: the answer is okay, you need to stop, like let's 347 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 3: get change the boot. Sometimes that's the case, but almost 348 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 3: always like keep running. We just need we might need 349 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 3: to rethink about how you're doing it. 350 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: Any other last minute advice for upcoming marathonors, Oh gosh, 351 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:54,119 Speaker 1: a word of wisdom for departing Yeah, no, manage. 352 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 2: Your loads appropriately. You know. 353 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 3: Strength, I can't cannot overemphasize strength. You know, it should 354 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 3: be at the cornerstone of not only a performance strategy, 355 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 3: but also you rehab strategy too. If there's not some 356 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 3: sort of strength component, then I think you're missing a big, 357 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 3: big pace. 358 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: How often would you say that a runner should be 359 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: strength training during the week. 360 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, so with strength training, if I'm working with a 361 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 3: more performance type athlete, I'll do like two days and 362 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 3: more of this like maintenance, core tissue capacity building, strengthen 363 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 3: durance type training, and then I'll try and get them 364 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 3: in the gym twice a week for more of a 365 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 3: performance cyclift, more of those heavier Olympic deadlift style lifts, 366 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 3: more creative towards power output, neural drive, things like that. 367 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 3: So more the recreational runner, I would consider like three 368 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 3: to five to be a good thing to am more 369 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 3: of that core building tissue capacity. That's what's going to 370 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 3: help protect you against injury. 371 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: So yeah, as you guys can see Blake, it's got 372 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: a lot of really great expert insight into what to 373 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: do when you're injured. And I can't say enough good 374 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: things about him or Bespoke Treatments in Midtown. Definitely check 375 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 1: those guys out you need anything, and you are New 376 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: York City based otherwise, Like I said in my first 377 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: hurdle moment about injury, I know it's tough and it 378 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:11,160 Speaker 1: can be frustrating, but know that there are resources out 379 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 1: there for you to get better. There is a light 380 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: at the end of the tunnel and all this stuff. 381 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: The tough stuff, the good stuff. It all happens to 382 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: teach us something. You know, the drill at Emilay Body 383 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 1: at Hurdle Podcast. Share this one with a friend, won't you. 384 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 1: It'll make my day. Another hurdle conquered. Catch you guys 385 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: next time.