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Speaker 1: This is the business of sports. Should Major League Baseball

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Speaker 1: shorten up the season? How do we present football to

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Speaker 1: the audience of the future. I don't think that most

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Speaker 1: players understand the power that they have. The future of

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Speaker 1: IndyCar racing is looking bright. Scott SSHNK very basic math here,

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Speaker 1: more bidders means more money, Evan Nobody Williams. The team

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Speaker 1: value has essentially quadruples. And the leaders in the sports

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Speaker 1: industry time to bring in our guest, Hols Flidbrunner, National

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Speaker 1: Hockey League Commissioner Gary Betman, Atlanta Braves president Derek Schiller,

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Speaker 1: Patriots President Jonathan Kraft. Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. Hello,

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Speaker 1: I'm Scott Shan, I'm Evan Novie Williams, and I'm Michael Barr.

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Speaker 1: And this is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast where

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Speaker 1: we explore every day is Thursday for you, isn't it?

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Speaker 1: One man band? We explore the big money issues in

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Speaker 1: the world of sports. Let's get into some of our

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Speaker 1: topic and we got us Oh my goodness, we got

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Speaker 1: to start with the NBA playoffs. Did anybody get a

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Speaker 1: chance to see the Toronto game where the Raptors Kauai

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Speaker 1: Leonard did this. It's the letter defunded by Simmons. Is

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Speaker 1: this the type? This was Game seven final score. They

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Speaker 1: were times Raptors and six years all about four seconds

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Speaker 1: left and then kawaid Leonard does that mine, Well, you

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Speaker 1: have to tell like, what made it so special is

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Speaker 1: not only you know, drive him to the right, Joel

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Speaker 1: embiid seven foot are coming out on you. So a

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Speaker 1: hierarchy shot hits the front of the rim and you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's not gonna go in. Wait, HiT's the other side

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Speaker 1: of the rim. Way, it comes down, hits the rim again.

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Speaker 1: Way And if you get a chance, if you're listening

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Speaker 1: to this, you get a chance to hit the internet

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Speaker 1: and see some of the still shots of the crowd.

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Speaker 1: That's I love those. That's really fun because one person

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Speaker 1: knew before anybody else that ball was going down, and

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Speaker 1: it was Ben Simmons. You could see the disappointment on

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Speaker 1: his face. And I know we don't always talk X

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Speaker 1: and since Evan and I were doing this, let's do it.

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Speaker 1: So Ben Simmons was guarding Kawuai on the inbound and

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Speaker 1: I understand switches and there's somebody top of the screen

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Speaker 1: but at some point when there's not a lot of

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Speaker 1: time left, I'll take my chances with doubling and like

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Speaker 1: making a passing quick shot. Ben Simmons literally did nothing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you watch the replay, he is standing there. He

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Speaker 1: sort of passes along. Let's the hands over Kauai to

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Speaker 1: Joel Embiid who steps out. Just fine, good defense, hand

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Speaker 1: up everything. But like Ben Simmons isn't guarding the guy

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Speaker 1: at the top of the key, and he isn't doing

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Speaker 1: anything to make it difficult difficult for Kawhi Leonard either.

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Speaker 1: He's just standing there. Can't happen. Good boy, was a

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Speaker 1: great That's never happened before in the NBA playoffs. A

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Speaker 1: game seven buzzer beater, especially one like that's never happened,

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Speaker 1: a game seven buzzer beater to eliminate the other team.

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Speaker 1: It's never been done. But I'm serious. It's it's just

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Speaker 1: one of those like number of the weeks, sixty minus

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Speaker 1: something doesn't equal something else. Game now. Remember now, I

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Speaker 1: know Michael Jordan did it, but that wasn't the game seven,

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Speaker 1: was it? Well, I'm just trying listen. I covered the

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Speaker 1: NBA for a long time. I don't remember all the

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Speaker 1: buzzer beaters I've seen, but I find it hard to

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Speaker 1: believe it's never been a game seven buzzer beaters. Maybe not.

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Speaker 1: You may be right if anybody says, Bar, you're stupid,

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Speaker 1: just a big tweet at big Bar sportsweet. So I

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Speaker 1: was going to say, even before I knew that that

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Speaker 1: was the first time ever, this is kind of a

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Speaker 1: dream come true for the NBA, right, it lives and

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Speaker 1: dies for these, you know, these really dramatic game ending moments.

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Speaker 1: I still think they had to have the sixers and

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Speaker 1: the raptors. I think I would agree with you, But

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Speaker 1: these events in general, I feel like exactly what NBA

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Speaker 1: and it's like incredible social media prowess are are built

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Speaker 1: on the last two minutes. We had a pretty iconic

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Speaker 1: buzzer beater series clinching one earlier in the playoffs when

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Speaker 1: Dame Lillard Elimian eliminated the Oklahoma City Thunder. This one

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Speaker 1: even more dramatic. As you said, Bar, it's a game seven.

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Speaker 1: It might be the only time that's ever happened in

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Speaker 1: the NBA playoffs. Might be um, but you know, just

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Speaker 1: to continue going through the playoffs and having these moments,

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Speaker 1: these crazy buzzer beaters, whether they're thirty five footers or

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Speaker 1: they bounce around the rim eight times before they drop in.

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Speaker 1: This is the kind of drama that the NBA really

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Speaker 1: needs to kind of continue. Interesting. I love the pistess

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Speaker 1: side of it all, and this is my mind right

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Speaker 1: away goes to a friend of the program, Scott O'Neill, like,

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Speaker 1: you're knowing what the plan is in the process and

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Speaker 1: to take that next step to the Conference finals against

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Speaker 1: Jonas and the Bucks and everything that would mean for

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Speaker 1: your franchise and for the league. And I know he's

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Speaker 1: probably heartbroken, but no one, Scotty, He's probably already working

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Speaker 1: on next year. And then you take it from the

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Speaker 1: Toronto standpoint where you know it took a chance to

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Speaker 1: getting Kauai. Will you keep them at it? Want be there?

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Speaker 1: Who knows? But what that means for the Raptors and

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Speaker 1: their fan base, um lots of business implications around. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: looking at the four teams we have left, we have

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Speaker 1: you know the team the NBA needed to get this

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Speaker 1: far in the Golden State Warriors, that the dynasty, and

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Speaker 1: then you have three I would say, totally new faces

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Speaker 1: at this point, right you the Portland Trailblazers, the Milwaukee Bucks,

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Speaker 1: and and and the and if you haven't said and

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Speaker 1: this is what they need because if you haven't seen

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Speaker 1: Dame Litard play, Damian Lillards a heck of a player,

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Speaker 1: you know, Kauai, he was always that understated san Antonio

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Speaker 1: spur easy to get lost. But you've got some really good,

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Speaker 1: fun new players to watch and look as bowl in

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Speaker 1: the Eastern Conference finals, rights Mark Well, power is out.

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Speaker 1: Power is out for the year. So that's how is

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Speaker 1: injured out? For your speaking, your knowledge, yeah speaking, but

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Speaker 1: speaking of injury, I mean, let's not undersell this. Kevin

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Speaker 1: Durrett as somebody but as you know who I mean.

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Speaker 1: Bar almost a year ago when I hurt my calf

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Speaker 1: playing with NYCFC, not in a game, but in practice.

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Speaker 1: I was actor sing with NYCFC, trying to show off

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Speaker 1: what I could do, and I went to push up

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Speaker 1: my calf just was like bing, you know that was it?

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Speaker 1: What two weeks ago? I mean, this is a long

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Speaker 1: time ago that that injury happened. Two weeks ago. I

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Speaker 1: went to sort of like run across the street to

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Speaker 1: beat a red light in a cab and my calf

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Speaker 1: warned me you don't want to do that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't trying to be a professional now, Like Kevin

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Speaker 1: Durant trying to come back from a strain calf that hurts.

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Speaker 1: I just don't know if he's gonna be able to

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Speaker 1: play realistically, Realistically, If I told you right now Kevin

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Speaker 1: Durant won't play another game in this playoffs, the Warriors

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Speaker 1: are still have to be the favorite, right, Well, they

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Speaker 1: won the championship without him, sure, sure, yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: to me, I want. I mean, I think so much

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Speaker 1: about how the entire regular season, even parts of the postseason,

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Speaker 1: feel like inevitabilities, right that even if the best possible,

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Speaker 1: the best player in basketball, goes down, this team is

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Speaker 1: still so good that it might not even matter. Still

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Speaker 1: have a core for But but I gotta say they

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Speaker 1: rely heavily under Renner have and it certainly gives hope

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Speaker 1: to everybody else. And by the way, I gotta add

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Speaker 1: the trail boy is there's Nuggets matchup that was also

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Speaker 1: a Game seven, and that was a good game seven. Also,

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Speaker 1: I mean, so you had drama all around, well we

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Speaker 1: all by the way, get sports business. Paul Allen's estate

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Speaker 1: now owns the Trailblazers. We don't know what they're gonna

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Speaker 1: do with this franchise. Make a nice run, hm hmmm,

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Speaker 1: And now might be a good time to sell team

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Speaker 1: on the What imagine if they beat the Warriors go

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Speaker 1: to the NBA Finals, quick for sales side out there

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Speaker 1: on the Portland Trailblazers. Actually, you could sell it right now,

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Speaker 1: you could, you could. Speaking of the NBA we have

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Speaker 1: we're gonna move on to uh, not only the NBA

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Speaker 1: but the MLB. And there's a gambling data story. Let

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Speaker 1: me set it up real quick. There's a new reality

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Speaker 1: that is setting in for US sports books. Some will

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Speaker 1: lose access to official NBA data in the coming days,

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Speaker 1: right in the middle of the playoffs. What yeah. I

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Speaker 1: won't get too much into the weeds because you can

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Speaker 1: go very inside inside sports gambling here. But we've talked

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Speaker 1: a bit on this show about kind of the underlying

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Speaker 1: data that fuels a lot of the most popular kinds

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Speaker 1: of sports gambling out there, the live in play games,

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Speaker 1: and usually this is data that comes directly from sports leagues. Right,

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Speaker 1: So when Kawuhi Leonard hits a ft jump shot, right,

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Speaker 1: the NBA calculator puts that down in its official data

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Speaker 1: feed and in less than a second, it goes out

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Speaker 1: to all the sports books out there. So if you

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Speaker 1: gambled on Kawhi Leonard to score the next basket, you

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Speaker 1: know they fill that bet. Um. The NBA and MLB

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Speaker 1: are both kind of taking a new business track in

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Speaker 1: terms of that that official data as we get more

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Speaker 1: and more states coming online in the US, and the

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Speaker 1: way that's going to manifest itself is they're demanding that

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Speaker 1: sports books partner with them commercial partnerships that are that

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Speaker 1: are actually fairly expensive if you ask operators commercial partnerships

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Speaker 1: that they have to sign with the league before they

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Speaker 1: get access to that data. Um. And this kind of

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Speaker 1: comes as we've talked about integrity fees as well, which

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Speaker 1: is a cut of sports gambling bets that that leagues

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Speaker 1: are trying to get forced through legislatures. It's kind of,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's it's a tricky time right now in

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Speaker 1: the relationship between these leagues and these operators when it

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Speaker 1: comes to sports betting. And we talked about what NASCAR

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Speaker 1: did its data deal with Genius. We were saying, well,

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Speaker 1: I see that as more valuable because you're really the

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Speaker 1: only place to get the data that NASCAR is giving

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Speaker 1: you from the cars is from NASCAR itself, Whereas as

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Speaker 1: we've seen in soccer and other sports, the courtsiders people

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Speaker 1: try and steal the data. You have people in the

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Speaker 1: stadiums trying to see who scored, who are trying to

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Speaker 1: steal the data. Obviously much easier and probably more accurate

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Speaker 1: if it's coming directly from the league. So it's gonna

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Speaker 1: a real test of the value of that officially exactly.

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Speaker 1: And as you said, Michael, this is news right now,

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Speaker 1: especially in the NBA, because for the most for this

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Speaker 1: entire regular season in parts of the playoffs, the NBA

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Speaker 1: has been telling operators, hey, you're in a grace period

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Speaker 1: right now where you can get this data without partnering

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Speaker 1: with us first. At some point that grace period is

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Speaker 1: going to end, and the grace period is ending by

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Speaker 1: the end of this week. Operators that do not have

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Speaker 1: that commercial deal in place with the NBA will not

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Speaker 1: be able to partner to get that data. Funny how

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Speaker 1: that grace period ends, right is the most important. Timing

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Speaker 1: is nice for the NBA and the MLB. Their grace

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Speaker 1: period ends at the All Star break in the middle

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Speaker 1: of their regular season. Uh, in the middle of July. Um.

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Speaker 1: But you know, as you said Scott as well, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna see immediately in the next you know, probably a

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Speaker 1: couple of days. How many of these operators that are

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Speaker 1: going to sign up to partner with the NBA. There's

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Speaker 1: already three of them. There's already MGM, their Stars Group,

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Speaker 1: there's FanDuel. How many more are we going to see

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Speaker 1: through this partnership or how many are we going to see?

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Speaker 1: Go the unofficial data and our Twitter poll for you

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Speaker 1: if we may. Is it data according to Mr Barr

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Speaker 1: or is it data according to Mr Novie Williams have

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Speaker 1: data verse data. I'm a data guy. I'm on your

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Speaker 1: side of I'm a data gain I know. And it's

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Speaker 1: it's like there's tomato and tomato one of those is

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Speaker 1: right though. I want to see a Twitter poll. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna put that on Twitter. That's I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: put That's kind of what I was saying. I'm gonna put.

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Speaker 1: By the way, that's what I was played. I think

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Speaker 1: that wasn't even a plug and I kind of set

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Speaker 1: it way to go, bar thank you, I'm gonna I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna put it on as soon as we're done, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna put it on on right now, So on the

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Speaker 1: instance now, yes, Now, by the way, I should add

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Speaker 1: this too. It sounds like the NBA and MLB are saying, listen,

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Speaker 1: why buy the cow when you can get the milk

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Speaker 1: for free? And these guys are just taking the milk

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Speaker 1: for free. So are these sports entities ready to set

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Speaker 1: up their own kind of well, how can I say it?

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Speaker 1: Their own data set up? Oh? I mean, I would

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Speaker 1: be shocked if in the near term we see any

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Speaker 1: of these leagues become sports books. And the reason why

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Speaker 1: I say that is because you know, the regulatory process

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Speaker 1: want to go through, especially if you're an entity like

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Speaker 1: the NBA that you don't want to be. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: don't want to be in that business. If you're a league,

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Speaker 1: then suddenly you have money writing on the outcome of games,

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Speaker 1: and you don't want to be in that business money

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Speaker 1: writing on the outcome of games. And then suddenly, you know,

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Speaker 1: you have NBA fans out there who are who are

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Speaker 1: looking at their balance seeing that they're losing money to

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Speaker 1: the NBA specifically, and there's a number of reasons out

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Speaker 1: there why I don't think the NBA is gonna it's

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Speaker 1: gonna become a book anytime soon. But as we're seeing,

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Speaker 1: there's a plenty and plenty of different ways in which

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Speaker 1: the NBA is going to profit off this. I prefer

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Speaker 1: to lose one of the old fashioned way. I left

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Speaker 1: my wallet on the kitchen county yesterday. Oh no, Kim

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Speaker 1: went out, bought a pack of Twizzlers to two chocolate

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Speaker 1: bars frozen in the in the freezer, took my money,

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Speaker 1: went and got it. No, not a test to see

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Speaker 1: she listens to the show. It's our money, yes, clue,

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Speaker 1: it is our money, but it is not our twizzlers.

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Speaker 1: Moving credit along before you sleep on the couch. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Kyler Murray signed a big old rookie deal. The Arizona

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Speaker 1: Cardinals have signed Murray in time for their rookie minicap.

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Speaker 1: Arizona signed the number one overall draft picked to a

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Speaker 1: four year contract last week, worth touching thirty five million

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Speaker 1: dollars with a team option for a fifth and it

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Speaker 1: includes a signing bonus more than twenty three million dollars,

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Speaker 1: more money than you would have made if he was

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Speaker 1: a baseball player. Now, however, if you look at the

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Speaker 1: long term of a career and a star in the

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Speaker 1: NFL versus a star in Major League Baseball, you take

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Speaker 1: the pick, where would you want your kid playing. Well,

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Speaker 1: of course that one went baseball because there's more money

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Speaker 1: in baseball and it's a longer lifespan for the player. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's only more money if he becomes a bona fide

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Speaker 1: star and is still a star when he's twenty nine

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Speaker 1: or thirty. Yeah, this seems a lock you up earlier

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Speaker 1: than that. Yet we've seen that that's sort of the trend.

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Speaker 1: There's a compromise. This Kyler Murray's twenty one and he

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Speaker 1: just signed this deal, as you said, Michael, thirty five

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Speaker 1: million dollars all guaranteed. Um. Bryce Harper, who was way

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Speaker 1: bigger touted prospect in baseball than Kyler Murray ever was,

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Speaker 1: didn't hit the thirty million dollar mark until the end

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Speaker 1: of two thousand seventeen. That's seven years after he was

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Speaker 1: drafted he hit. Now, I mean, it's of course, and

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Speaker 1: this is this is the argument, right Um. Certainly, if

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Speaker 1: if Kyler Murray were to be Bryce Harper and baseball

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Speaker 1: over the course of his entire career. Bryce Harper is

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Speaker 1: going to make much more than Kyler Murray will, but

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Speaker 1: it's it would take even at Bryce Harper's rocket ship trajectory,

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Speaker 1: it would take him seven years just to reach the

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Speaker 1: rookie deal he signed yesterday. Yeah, absolutely takes a while.

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Speaker 1: You better be a darn good player into that third contract, sure, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And one other thing about Kyler Murray real quick, um,

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Speaker 1: just a reminder that the news the CBA that based

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Speaker 1: that football is under right now just severely undercut what

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Speaker 1: rookies were making versus what they were under the previous deal.

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Speaker 1: Back in two thousand ten, Sam Bradford signed a six

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Speaker 1: year deal at the number one overall pick for seventy

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Speaker 1: eight million dollars with thirty with with fifty million dollars

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Speaker 1: in guarantees. Right, So seventy eight million is significantly more

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Speaker 1: than double the deal that Kyler Murray ten years later

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Speaker 1: got with I've done the math throughout his career. We

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Speaker 1: got to check somebody who has. But Sam Bradford is

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Speaker 1: one of those guys who was the consistent winners of

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Speaker 1: the business of football, like the hat to play the

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Speaker 1: injury versus the amount of money that this guy has

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Speaker 1: taken in, he's doing it the right way. He's a

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Speaker 1: winner in the business of football. And we are a

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Speaker 1: couple of years away from likely having a new cb

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Speaker 1: A And I've talked to a number of economists who

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Speaker 1: believe that, as we saw under the last one, where

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Speaker 1: you know, rookies were a big loser, in this new

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Speaker 1: round of talks, we could enter another phase in which

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Speaker 1: rookies are again a big loser. And let us explain why,

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Speaker 1: because the rookies are not members of the union when

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Speaker 1: these things are negotiated. So, if I'm an established NFL

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Speaker 1: player and there's something I need to give up to

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Speaker 1: the league, should I sell myself out the veterans who

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Speaker 1: are part of the union who want to keep their jobs,

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Speaker 1: who's the easiest constituency to sell out the folks who

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Speaker 1: are not there? Yeah, so that's why it happens repeated. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So in two years from now, when we're talking about

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Speaker 1: number one overall pick Trevor Lawrence out of Clemson, uh

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Speaker 1: and him signing a twenty two million dollar guaranteed deal,

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Speaker 1: and then we're comparing that to Kyler Murray's thirty five,

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Speaker 1: that will be the reason why is because in in

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Speaker 1: the c b A this next new round of collective

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Speaker 1: bargaining negotiations, rookies once again got their pay their pay

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Speaker 1: scale whacked. I have to ask you, out of the

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Speaker 1: four major food rooms Baseball, football, basketball, and hockey, which

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Speaker 1: one has the most, the best odds and not in

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Speaker 1: a good way of a labor dispute and possibly shut

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Speaker 1: Now that's a good question. Um. I would say hockey,

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Speaker 1: just because they have they've shown a history of labor stoppages. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the NBA, I would say, maybe least, and the least.

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Speaker 1: There's the least money there. Yeah, and and so much

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Speaker 1: money every owner you couldn't you couldn't pull. If you

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Speaker 1: pulled all the NFL owners right now, I would doubt

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Speaker 1: highly if you could find one that would would say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's shut down the season. Things are not good for

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Speaker 1: my franchise. The same goes for the NBA. You have

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Speaker 1: a hard time finding somebody, right But I don't want no,

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Speaker 1: no, no no, no, let's shut it down. We need better.

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Speaker 1: They'll have some internal revenue sharing discussions, but not enough

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Speaker 1: to shut it down. Um, Hockey, I'm not sure you

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Speaker 1: can say the same thing. You may have someone say

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Speaker 1: we're better off not playing. I think baseball also has

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Speaker 1: a pretty done good shot. I mean, there's we've talked

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Speaker 1: about it on the show many times. There there is

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Speaker 1: a lot of frustration right now for baseball players who

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Speaker 1: feel as though and at kind of as we just

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Speaker 1: talked about with with Bryce Harper, that early in their career,

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Speaker 1: you know, all the power and then negotiating and the

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Speaker 1: and the lack of money that they're making, that all

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Speaker 1: kind of feeds into benefit of the owners. And now

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Speaker 1: we're seeing owners that might be shifting the way there

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Speaker 1: are how much they're willing to pay for the back

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Speaker 1: end of guys careers. So there's certainly a lot of frustration,

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Speaker 1: uh in MLB locker rooms right now, um, and that

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Speaker 1: will manifest itself in trying to get a new structure

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Speaker 1: in some capacity under the next deal. Once again, the

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Speaker 1: Boston Red Sox, we're doing it better than anybody else.

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Speaker 1: You turn thirty five, audios don't want you well, I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's cutthroat. But that's just the way Mike Lowell

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Speaker 1: was the let was it Mike Lowell the last person

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Speaker 1: that they at that age where they said, all right,

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Speaker 1: we'll give you a shot. That's interesting yeah, but the

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Speaker 1: the entire baseball pay scale is built on the fact

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Speaker 1: that teams are willing to pay for thirty five year olds.

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Speaker 1: More teams see see that, maybe that it's not the

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Speaker 1: best investment. As the analytics are of age are taking over,

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Speaker 1: you know, you gotta have to rework the deal absolutely.

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Speaker 1: By the way, did anybody get a chance to see

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Speaker 1: some soccer over the weekend? Over the weekend, I did

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Speaker 1: not get to see any socker. Last week I saw

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Speaker 1: some pretty darn good soccer. Yeah. Speaking of actually Champions League,

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Speaker 1: I I made a mistake on one of our shows

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Speaker 1: last week. I was reading the list too quickly and

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Speaker 1: said that it looked like Liverpool had not won a

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Speaker 1: Champions League since one uh. They did win in N one,

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Speaker 1: but they also won in four UH and in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and five, so alone, nice. Nice Thank you to

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Speaker 1: to J N Mark and a few other folks who

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Speaker 1: who pointed out to us, and best of luck to

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Speaker 1: the Reds in the Champions League final. Look at you,

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Speaker 1: look at you signing with Beds. I didn't know we

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Speaker 1: were supposed to do that. I thought we weren't supposed

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Speaker 1: the route in the press box man, Best of luck

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Speaker 1: to Tatten them as well there against Liverpool, take Hotspur

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Speaker 1: and go oh is it my shame to say? We

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Speaker 1: are here each and every Monday. Wait a minute, but

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Speaker 1: you're just something before me. Oh, this is the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business and Sports. People know that they're listening to. This

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Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast. I'm Michael Barr along

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Speaker 1: you know who, Scott sashnik is and havn Novie Williams.

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Speaker 1: We are here each and every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday

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Speaker 1: exploring the world of money and sports. Join us again

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Speaker 1: at the end of the week when we speak with

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Speaker 1: Amy Latimer. She's president of the TD Garden, home of

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Speaker 1: the Eastern Conference finalists. Have been fun. The Celtics were

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Speaker 1: in two to have two teams going in the same

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Speaker 1: I want to say to her, Okay, how does that work.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna find out how does it work when your

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Speaker 1: whole dates? And now what kind it's can you bring in?

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Speaker 1: Do we get the tractor pull? Yeah? Just just shuffling

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Speaker 1: that schedule. I think I'm really interested to chat with it.

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Speaker 1: That really is payingful along the park a floor man

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Speaker 1: attractor boy. Well, okay, anyway, you're listening to Bloomberg Business

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Speaker 1: with Sports on Bloomberg Radio around the world and online

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Speaker 1: where you get your podcasts.