1 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to the wire to Hunt podcast, your home for 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:11,479 Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, 3 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm 4 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. This episode number one forty tay 5 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 1: the show. We are joined by Kip Adams of the 6 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: Quality Deer Management Association, and we're discussing the latest deer 7 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: harvest trends and current issues impacting deer and deer hunters, 8 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: such as changing habitat, disease, urban deer management, and much 9 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: much more. All right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, 10 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: brought to you by Sitko Gear, and today's show, I'm 11 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: joined by Kip Adams of the Quality Deer Management Association, 12 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: and as he's done for us the past few years, 13 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: Kip is going to share his annual State of the 14 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 1: white Tail Update, and by that I mean keeps going 15 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: to share with us a variety of updates related to 16 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: the latest deer harvest numbers and trends from across the country, 17 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: as well as some insight into the most pressing issues 18 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: related to deer and deer hunting currently, such as white 19 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: tail habitat degradation trends, and faun recruitment, the latest on 20 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: diseases such as e h D and c w D, 21 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: and much much more. It's really gonna be an interesting conversation, 22 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: I think, and it shouldn't nicely set the stage for 23 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: us for the rest of two thousand and seventeen. I 24 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: think it'll put us in a position where we're all 25 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: kind of have a good idea of the state of 26 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 1: the resource as we kick off this new year and 27 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 1: start planning our our deer hunting projects and hunts and 28 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: all that good stuff. So, since we are without my 29 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: trusty coast Dan today, we're going to quickly bring Kip 30 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: on here with us. But first we briefly need to 31 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: pause to thank our partners at SITK Gear for the 32 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: support of this podcast. And as we've done the past 33 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: few weeks, we're back with Jessica de Lorenzo, who was 34 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: one of the female hunters involved in design and testing 35 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: the new women's line of clothing from Sica, and today, 36 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: to wrap things up, I asked jess to tell us 37 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: just a little bit about what it felt like to finally, 38 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: you know, to have put in so much work to 39 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: create this woman's gear and then to finally see it 40 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: all come together in the real world. It was pretty 41 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: exciting of the first time that I got some phototypes 42 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: to test um seeing the ideas that we had come 43 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: up with in the beginning stage of the brainstorming and 44 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: having them in a physical form, and the first couple 45 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: of times that I went out hunting and it was 46 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: just like this Eureka moment, like it doesn't finally happening 47 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 1: and everything just is coming together and it's worked out 48 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: really well. We're really really really proud of it and 49 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: excited the way it's turned out, because, UM, we just 50 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 1: wanted it to be, uh like, no frills, We wanted 51 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: it to be a tool, and we wanted to be functional, 52 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: the same as what they offer currently for men um. 53 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: So to see that transition into the women's functionality and 54 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: systems has been awesome. And did any moment stand out 55 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: to you during this whole process by sleep afterwards? UM, 56 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: I think the one that pops out immediately is I 57 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: was able to go on Antelope Spot and stock with 58 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: bo with Amanda Caldwell and we were field tasting some 59 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 1: of the women's big game gear for that hunt, and 60 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: it was really tough and exciting and it was successful 61 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: for me and just be able to share that with 62 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: man did who I'm great friends with, and be able 63 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: to use some of the products that we helped design 64 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: was really special. So if you'd like to learn more 65 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: about the women's gear or sign up to pre order some, 66 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: you can visit sit kid gear dot com, slash Women's 67 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: And now back to the show and our conversation with 68 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: Mr Kip Adams. All right with me now on the 69 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: line is Kip Adams. How are you? Kip? I'm doing good? Mark, 70 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: how are you doing today? It's good, I'm doing well. 71 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: I'm I'm excited to have you back. You are? You 72 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: are think a three time guest now on the podcast. 73 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: So so we appreciate you continuing to h to come 74 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: along for this crazy ride. Thank you for joining us 75 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: a flute, It's my pleasure. I always enjoyed talking with you. Yeah. 76 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: So since last time we talked, UM, I'm curious, how 77 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: how did you twos six hunting season go? It was great? Uh, 78 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: hunt out of a traditional camp here in northern Pennsylvania, 79 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: and we arguably had the best year we have ever had. 80 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: And that said a lot because we've had a lot 81 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 1: of good years. Um. Part of it, though we had 82 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: six kids that were between ten and twelve years old 83 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: hunting not a camp, and uh, that alone made it 84 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: a tremendous year, So lots of fun to have that youth. Um, 85 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 1: actually there were still six kids. They shot uh four 86 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 1: bucks and a bear, so they did really well. How 87 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: big of a property is this that this group's hunting. 88 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: We have very fortunate as my family farm that my 89 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 1: grandparents put together a long time ago. It's seven dred 90 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 1: acres total and we have anywhere between usually fifteen adults 91 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: and then a bunch of kids that hunted each year. 92 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,679 Speaker 1: So this year we had about twenty different people hunting 93 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: on it, and so we were very lucky to have that. 94 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: We know in many cases we put a lot of 95 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: a lot of hunting pressure on us, so we have 96 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: to be very smart about how we hunt it. But 97 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: it's very important to us to to share that property 98 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: with friends and family. So uh, it's quite a hunting 99 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 1: tradition that we have there and certainly looking forward to 100 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: pass that to the next generation. And uh, six young 101 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: ones at camp this year made a big smile on 102 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: a bunch of people's faces. So hopefully we're going to 103 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: pass that tradition on and keep it going strong. Yeah, 104 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 1: that's awesome. That's great to have that many new people 105 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: coming into it and young folks getting involved. Um. In 106 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: addition to that type of youth participation, was it a 107 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 1: good year from you know, harvest standpoint, management standpoint, any 108 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: of those types of things. It really was. We typically 109 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: on the shoot one or two bucks a year. Um. 110 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 1: We have before we tell our kids to shoot whatever 111 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: they're allowed and highly encouraged to shoot any buck, and 112 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: the adults all follow other guidelines where the degger has 113 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 1: to be at least three and a half years old 114 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: or have a sixteen inch inside spread. And we have 115 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: some guys in our camp that are glad to shoot 116 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: any three year olds. We have some guys that typically 117 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 1: don't shoot three year olds that we want them to 118 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: get a little older. And uh, we're involved with the 119 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: Cutium Cooperative, which means, you know, many of our neighbors 120 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 1: are doing very similar things. So any given year, we 121 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 1: we truly have the chance to harvest deer that are three, 122 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: four or five, six or even seven years old. So 123 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: it's it's worked out extremely well for us over the years. Huh. 124 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 1: And in addition to those bucks that I told you 125 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: that our kids killed and actually one of those I 126 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: use killed killed a really nice three and a half 127 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: year old buck. Um. But in addition to those, we 128 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 1: killed three other bucks that were three and a half 129 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, two other bucks that were three and a 130 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 1: half and a four and a half year old. So 131 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: we typically shoot one or two bucks that are three 132 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: year older, and then this year we killed four of 133 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: them for really nice deer that were three or four 134 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:48,239 Speaker 1: years old. So an outstanding your forest by all accounts. Now, 135 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 1: would you would you say that's that's uncommon for the area. 136 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:54,720 Speaker 1: I mean, when I typically think of Pennsylvania, that's one 137 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 1: of the states. You know, I'm stereotyping here, generalizing here, 138 00:06:57,760 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 1: but it's one of the states that traditionally has not 139 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: been the best opportunity state for older age class bucks. 140 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 1: I know that's starting to change. Is that? Is that 141 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:07,359 Speaker 1: what you guys have seen too? Has this been a 142 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: big change for you over recent years? It has certainly 143 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: been changeding in Pennsylvania across the state, UM and our 144 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: part of the state. We started this cooperative about a 145 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 1: decade ago, very similar to too many of the cooperatives 146 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: that you have in Michigan, and there's about two thousand 147 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: acres where almost every landowner joins each other that that 148 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: protects younger deer and and some people have even more 149 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: restrictive buck harvest regulations than we do. So if you 150 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: take a look at the neighborhood that two thousand acres, UM, 151 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: and we had about an average year, which most accounts 152 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: is a very very good year. Um. It turned out 153 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: that our camp shot a couple more bucks this year 154 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: than we typically do. Some of our neighboring camps shot 155 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: one or two less, so um. So for our camp individually, 156 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: it was exceptional for our neighborhood. UM, it was right 157 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: on par was what we typically have been shooting. And 158 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: you know we shot um do here that we're eight 159 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: and a half years old bucks semana manual I aged. 160 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: Our neighbor shouted here last year that that was nine 161 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: and a half years old. Um a buck. So we 162 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: because of the cooperative nature of it, and I'm sharing 163 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: information and the relationships developed across property lines. Um. Even 164 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: though what we get to do it is not the 165 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: norm everywhere. UM, it is the norm for for us 166 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: in our neighborhood. You know, because of all the cooperation 167 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: among the landowners. Yeah, that's pretty awesome. It's been exciting 168 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: to see this, the whole coop idea spread across the country. 169 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: Like you said, there's a lot of that happening here 170 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: in Michigan, which has been nice to see. And it 171 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,439 Speaker 1: seems like, at least anecdotally from everything I hear from 172 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: people involved in those and I've been loosely involved in some, um, 173 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 1: it definitely seems to make a real meaningful impact. I mean, 174 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,679 Speaker 1: are you seeing that from a high national level when 175 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: you're looking across the you know, the qutum a membership 176 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 1: in different co ops? Is is it really making as 177 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: big of a difference as it seems to be just 178 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:01,439 Speaker 1: what I'm seeing locally. Oh? Absolutely, And and we're a 179 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: perfect example of it. You know, we are extremely lucky 180 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: to have the acres that we do. Um. You know, 181 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: that's much larger than many hunters are able to have. 182 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 1: And if it was just us going out of alone, 183 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: you know, we wouldn't have anywhere near the opportunities that 184 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: we have today, you know, because of the cooperative nature. 185 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: So you know, as you start looking at smaller properties, 186 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: those co operas become even more important, you know, and 187 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: we have some neighbors that have small acreages. You know, 188 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: we have some neighbors that that have you know, more 189 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: acres than us. But there works because of all of 190 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: the folks you know, getting together and doing this and 191 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 1: so um, we are very fortunate. I see the same 192 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: thing happening in other parts of Pennsylvania because people involved 193 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: the cooperatives and uh, you know, I'm very lucky to 194 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: get to work around the country, so I see the 195 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: same thing happening, you know, Northeast, the southeast, the Midwest, 196 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: the upper Midwest. You know, there's no boundaries to where 197 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: a cooperative will work well or not. It truly can 198 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: work any place that white tails live. It's just a 199 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: matter of you know, the hunters and the landowners getting 200 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: together of their neighbors and you know, talking it through 201 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 1: and you know, having handshake deals and started to develop 202 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: a little bit of a friendship or a relationship, which 203 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 1: then greatly compounds into the deer hunting in and what 204 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: they're able to do. So anything about it is too 205 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: you know, they often start small and they start slow, 206 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: and now, which is fine. You know, even two people 207 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: working together can can start to make a difference, and 208 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,319 Speaker 1: then over time you get another neighbor will throw their 209 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: twenty acres in, and now the guy just down the 210 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: road a little bit will throw his or her forty 211 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:30,959 Speaker 1: acres in, and you know, suddenly man made some friends 212 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: that you never had before. You know, your deer hunting 213 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: is better, and it's a it's a whole new ball game. 214 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: And you know, you guys lead the North Michigan with 215 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: regard to co ops, Texas as the leaves the South, 216 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: and they've been just doing those so much longer than 217 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: everybody else. And you know, people think of Texas as 218 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: these big lane ownership patterns, you know, and kind of 219 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: they go out by themselves, but that's not true at all. 220 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: You know, they had co ops there a long time. 221 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: They call them associations rather than co ops, but it's 222 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: exactly the same thing. So that's even with some of 223 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: these larger properties they have, they're they're able to be 224 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: so successful. Um, you guys lead the north of that, 225 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: and now there's many other stage trying to catch up 226 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: to you. And I think that's a very good thing. Yeah, 227 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: Cutium cooperatis are definitely one of the hottest things going 228 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 1: right now, and I think I'm very very bright sign 229 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: for the future of hunting. Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. UM. 230 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: And speaking of you know, I think most people listening 231 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: know who you are kept and they're familiar with the 232 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:30,319 Speaker 1: Quality Deer Management Association with who you work for. UM. 233 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 1: But I guess, just in case, just in case of 234 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:34,719 Speaker 1: some people that aren't familiar, can you just give us 235 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,319 Speaker 1: a very you know, a quick rundown of what the 236 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:39,559 Speaker 1: cut you May is all about and maybe what you 237 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: guys are doing now today? I mean, has the cut 238 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: you may have your goals or your focus areas, or 239 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: the way you go about things has that changed at all? 240 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 1: Is cut May in two thousand seventeen different than maybe 241 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: the qut may we knew five years ago or anything 242 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 1: like that? I'm sure. I'm a wallet biologist and the 243 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 1: director of communication or side of the director of Education 244 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: and Outreach for k d M A. KUMA is a 245 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: national nonprofit wildlife conservation organization, and we specialize in in 246 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: information and outreach to two hunters and landowners and natural 247 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 1: resource professionals. You know, we have this information that we 248 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: want to share with people to help them do better 249 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,599 Speaker 1: stewards of our natural resources and have more successful hunting seasons. 250 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: So that that's kind of it in a nutshell. So 251 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,199 Speaker 1: if if you're a deer hunter, you belong with q 252 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:26,439 Speaker 1: d M A, you know we we are the organization 253 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: we want you here to be able to give you 254 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: more information to make it better for you and then 255 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: and have you share that with others. So and as 256 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: far as are we are we different. Um. We certainly 257 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 1: are an education based organization. UM. So that part hasn't changed, 258 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: but some of our focus has in large part because 259 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: many of our early goals we've accomplished. And uh q 260 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: MAY was founded in and at that point the whole 261 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: qd M philosophy was brand new, and our founder actually 262 00:12:55,440 --> 00:13:01,079 Speaker 1: married some principles from Texas with some association from Australia, 263 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: some work that he had done to really put deer 264 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: hunters together. Because up at that point, you know a 265 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: lot of the WALA professional said you can get duck 266 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: hunters together, and you can get small game hunters together 267 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: on something you know, or turkey hunters, but you can 268 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 1: never get deer hunters to agree on anything. Well, Joe 269 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: found a way to make that happen. So Joe Hamilton's 270 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: founded the q d M A and then at that 271 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: time even a lot of Wallace professionals did not believe 272 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 1: in the q d M philosophy, did not believe in 273 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: protecting young bucks or harvesting analysts here, that couldn't convince 274 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: hunters to do that. So we spent much of the 275 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: early years just proven that, hey, you know what qt 276 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: M works, and you can get deer hunters to work together. 277 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: So you can fast forward to that's the first year 278 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: in the US that hunters shot more antalysts deer than 279 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: that bucks. So that was a monumental step forward with 280 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 1: regard to deer management and you know, and being good stewards. 281 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: Then you fast forward a little farther and suddenly, now, well, 282 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: you know what, we're protecting more yearling bucks were We're 283 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: getting more bucks into the older age classes, we have 284 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 1: more balanced age structures, and and two years ago we 285 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: actually harvested more bucks that were three and a half 286 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: are older than those that were just one and a half. So, 287 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: I mean, that is absolutely amazing today, and it happened 288 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: again this past hunting season. So you know, we've been 289 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: monitoring this since nine and nine. About sixty of all 290 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: the bucks shot we're just one and a half years old. 291 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: First seven hours, you know, seven out of ten bucks. 292 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: If you fast forward today, it's about a third. It's 293 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: dropped all the way down to thirty three or thirty 294 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: four percent, and a bigger percentage are three and a 295 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: half are older, so and actually less past season, for 296 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: the first time ever, hunters shot more bucks that were 297 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: three and a half are older than those bucks that 298 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: were just one and a half or even those bucks 299 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: that were just two and a half. So this is 300 00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: very remarkable because there's a lot of states that had 301 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: restrictions to protect the healing bucks twenty three states to 302 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: be exact, but there's a many other states that have, 303 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: you know, very active public education programs you have to 304 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: encourage people to pass younger bucks. So what that means is, okay, 305 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: we're passing these jailings, you know, and and even five 306 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: or ten years ago, a lot of people then just 307 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: shot him at two and a half years old. What 308 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: we see now is, you know, they're making it to 309 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: at least three and a half at record numbers, and 310 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: there's not a single state in the country that has 311 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: regulations designed to protect bucks or two and a half. 312 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: So that means is the hunters are willingly passing an 313 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: entire another age class of deer that they could legally 314 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: kill just because they have seen benefits of hunting older bocks, 315 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: you know, a photographing older box swapping tactics with there 316 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: were these older deers. So it's a very different place 317 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: in deer management and it's a pretty exciting one to 318 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: be and hunters have really shown their desire to want 319 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: these older deer in their willingness to pass legally harvestable 320 00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: deer to be able to get to that. So that's 321 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: a at a cool place r right now. So because 322 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: of that, our focus changes a little bit to providing 323 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: new information on this changeing game of deer management as 324 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: well as rather than trying to prove that qd M 325 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: works because everybody knows that. Now, make sure that we 326 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: are broad enough on our educational outreach to bring in 327 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: more hunters that that may not know about us or 328 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: you know, may not be landowners. And that's fine. You know, 329 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: some people think that qd M A is just a 330 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: landowner organization and that's not true at all. A full 331 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: third of our members don't own any land. So we 332 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: need to make sure that we do a good point 333 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: telling deer hunters, Hey, if your a deer hunter, we 334 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: want you with us, and we have information that can 335 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: help you to make sure that nobody feels excluded from 336 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: from our organization. Yeah. So, speaking of the information that 337 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: you provide every year for I don't know how many 338 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: years it's been now, it's been quite a few. You 339 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: guys have been putting together something you called the white 340 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: Tail Reports, and UM, the last two years now we've 341 00:16:57,960 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: had you on the show to tell us about that 342 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: year's white Tail Report and kind of what the state 343 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,640 Speaker 1: of the white tail is in the country. And that's 344 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: kind of what my hope was for us to do 345 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 1: today was get the high level overview of where are 346 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:11,640 Speaker 1: things right now? What are some of the current issues 347 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: and trends? Um. But I guess before we dive into 348 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 1: that kit, can you just provide us some context as 349 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: to how you and Matt and the team put together 350 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 1: the white Tail Report? How do you how does this 351 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,719 Speaker 1: all come together? Sure, we start doing this in two 352 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: thousand and nine. That was the first one, and the 353 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 1: idea came from, Hey, you know, we have all this 354 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 1: information that we can get to our members and we're 355 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,239 Speaker 1: sharing with folks. But there's a lot more here that 356 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: you know that media and others would love to have 357 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: access to that. We really had an opportunity, unlike most 358 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: other organizations, to to be able to disperse this information. 359 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: So we started with that. And the cool thing about 360 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:53,439 Speaker 1: it is every fall, late summer and early fall, we 361 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: do a survey to every single state wilife agency and 362 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 1: every provincial wallife agency UM to provide information for the 363 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 1: upcoming year's report, and it always includes information on the 364 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: previous year's harvest. So we take a look at total 365 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: numbers of bucks and analysts are harvested, break it out 366 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: into age structure of that breaking and so then we 367 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: can take that and put all of it into a 368 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: harvest per square mile, so we can really compare, you know, 369 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: state by state or province by province with what's going on. 370 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 1: We look at all of that by weapon type to see, 371 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: you know, who's shooting more deer with bows versus muzzleloaders 372 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: versus rifles UM. And then we also ask questions on 373 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 1: the most pertinent things that are going on in the 374 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 1: deer world right now, so kind of the biggest issues, 375 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 1: the biggest threats, the biggest opportunities out there. So we 376 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: break our report really into into three chapters. The first 377 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 1: part is the harvest from the year before, so state 378 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: by state and province by province statistics to look at. 379 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: The next part is, you know, the current trends and threats, 380 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: what's really going on right now. And obviously us change 381 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: each year, so we make sure that we're up to 382 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: date with it. And it's really like providing a state 383 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: of the Union address, you know, to deer hunters. Here's 384 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: what the state of the Union of the White Tale world. 385 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 1: And the last part of our report now is is 386 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 1: qt amazing and report to discuss the different programs we 387 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: have and share information on folks. So the nice thing 388 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 1: about it is, you know, much of all of part 389 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: one and much of part two comes straight from our 390 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: state wildlife agencies. And when we started this, you know, 391 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: the states provided the data and okay, here we go. 392 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 1: But what we found, and since we've been doing it 393 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: this long, you know, the state agencies we received lots 394 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 1: of compliments from them because you know, they receive a 395 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: lot of the same questions from their constituents. So our 396 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: wildlife leaders use that to compare how their state is 397 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: to others and to share information with people, and and 398 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: we strongly encourage and hey, you know, if if you 399 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 1: have a question that you want to ask or see 400 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,160 Speaker 1: how your state compared about let us know, we're glad 401 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: to include that each year on on our State and 402 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: Provincial Agency survey. So it's a good relationship between US 403 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 1: and UH and the state and provincial agencies, which is 404 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: very nice. Hunters love it because then they can see 405 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: how their state compares to others around them or within 406 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,360 Speaker 1: the region. And the whole idea is to just make 407 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: it as helpful as possible to two hunters and and 408 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 1: that's a resource professionals. So speaking of your relationship with 409 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 1: these state wildlife agencies from the hunter standpoint, I feel 410 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: like there's always this interesting dynamic between hunter hunters and 411 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,439 Speaker 1: that agency and the regulations um that are put in 412 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: place and all these different things. From your unique perspective, UM, 413 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,719 Speaker 1: what is the state of our state wildlife agencies? Do 414 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 1: you feel like? And I know this this requires a 415 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: massive amount of generalization because there's so many out there, 416 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: but you know, how are these state agencies doing when 417 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: it comes to you know, I guess, managing relationships with 418 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: hunters and recording and tracking all this data and these 419 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: different regulations. I mean, this is an impossible question. I'm 420 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,679 Speaker 1: realizing it as I'm saying it. But but from your angle, 421 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: what are you seeing there? Are are we on the 422 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: right path? Are there anything that concern you? Are there 423 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,719 Speaker 1: any things you're particularly excited about? Um? What are your 424 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 1: thoughts there? Well? I think there's two big trends going 425 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: on within that in that role. But one of them 426 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 1: is our wildlife management programs have never been more political 427 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 1: than they are right now. And that is not a 428 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: good thing. That that is not a good sign. Um. 429 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: You know, when I started, and I've been a wilefe 430 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: biologists for more than twenty years now. When I started, UM, 431 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: science carried a lot more weight in all of these discussions, 432 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,439 Speaker 1: and it didn't necessarily carry the day every time, but 433 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 1: it really carried a lot of weight. And that is 434 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: increasingly becoming not the case today today. I have seen 435 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 1: time after time and state after state, you know, where 436 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: the science didn't carry any weight at all, you know, 437 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:51,199 Speaker 1: and decisions were entirely political. Um, from season dates you know, 438 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 1: to season structure, to analyss harvest recommendations either increased or 439 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: decreased from what the biologists wanted, you know, because of 440 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:03,400 Speaker 1: political whims. So so that that that is not good. 441 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 1: That is not a brave sign at all for our future. UM. 442 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: The second half of that and another trend that I 443 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: think it's very positive is hunters have never been as 444 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: engaged with other agencies as they are today. And that 445 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,159 Speaker 1: is a really really good thing. Historically, our state wilife 446 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: agencies gave us our hunting seasons and rules and here 447 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: it is and and hunters took it and lived with 448 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: it and UH and today hunters, unlike at any other point, 449 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 1: have much more involvement with season setting UH, deer management 450 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:38,199 Speaker 1: plan UM preparations. So so that's good. You know, they 451 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,440 Speaker 1: get to talk with the agencies. The agencies are engaging 452 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 1: hunters at record levels and and that just makes it 453 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 1: that much better because historically hunters were a much bigger 454 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: piece of the pie for our wildlife management programs. But 455 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 1: today we are more urbanized than we've ever been in 456 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,439 Speaker 1: the history of the United States. So what that means 457 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 1: is much more of our wild life decisions are being made, 458 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 1: you know, in the cities and in suburbia rather than 459 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: rural America, you know, like we often think of from 460 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,959 Speaker 1: a honey end. So there's just many more stakeholders involved 461 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: in while life decision making today. And thus because of that, 462 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 1: as hunters, you know, we need to make sure that 463 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: we are represented. So the fact that hunters are more 464 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 1: engaged with the agencies is a very very good thing. 465 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 1: And uh, you know that there are some agencies that 466 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: do a much better job of that than others. And 467 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: if you look at many of the issues today where 468 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 1: states really need to help in supportive hunters, the state 469 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: wilife agencies that have been engaging hunters for a longer 470 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 1: period of time have much better public support and working 471 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: relationships and uh, and it's very evident, and and so 472 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,679 Speaker 1: that's a good thing, you know, and hunter our agencies, 473 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: in my opinion, need to engage hunters at even higher 474 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,640 Speaker 1: levels to make sure that they do have that support 475 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: moving forward, because there's some pretty tricky issues out there 476 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: that we're having to deal with today. Yeah, so back 477 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: to the first point you made about the plus sization 478 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: of wildlife management, where does the where does that blame 479 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: get placed? Is that people within these wildlife agencies are 480 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: allowing themselves to be influenced by politicians or is this 481 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,120 Speaker 1: like above their pay grade and the politics are coming 482 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: from above and they're being forced on the agencies saying hey, no, 483 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:21,919 Speaker 1: I don't care what you're telling me to do it. 484 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: This is what we're gonna do. Where is the where 485 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,679 Speaker 1: is the onus put there? It's the ladder of what 486 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,199 Speaker 1: you just said. It's from above the agencies, and so 487 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: they're being told what to do, what they can or 488 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 1: cannot say. So, you know, in most cases our agencies, 489 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: dear biologists, you know, there is mad about what's happened, 490 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 1: you know, as the average hunter is, because they're being 491 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 1: told either to stand down or the recommendations are not 492 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: going to be followed. You know, they're going to be 493 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: dictated from above, and is in many case not even 494 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 1: just you know, the executive director of the agencies above 495 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: that you know, coming to them from the Board of 496 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: Commissioners that oversees the agency or you know, somewhere along 497 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,879 Speaker 1: those lines. So yeah, it's not it's not our do 498 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: by just buy any means? So what's the Is there 499 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: a solution there? I mean? Do do hunters that a 500 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: contingency have them have enough influence to influence that next 501 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,880 Speaker 1: run above? If if we were to start making a ruckus, 502 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 1: is that something that is achievable or is this outside 503 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 1: of our realm of influence. No, I think it absolutely is, 504 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,720 Speaker 1: and that's really where a lot of this is coming 505 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: from are you'll see, and it's often worse in states 506 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: that historically have not engaged hunters at a very high level. Um, 507 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 1: it's many hunters and groups that are just so dissatisfied 508 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,919 Speaker 1: or upset with their lack of opportunity to to be 509 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,360 Speaker 1: engaged that have gone to their legislators. And that's what's 510 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: driving a lot of this. So just as you know 511 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,679 Speaker 1: they're driving it kind of been a bad way. You know, 512 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 1: the majority of hunters who are you know, very good 513 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: stewards of our resources and you know an upstanding individuals, 514 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: you know, we can do the same same thing and 515 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 1: put that power back in our biologists hands. And in 516 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: some cases, um, you know, it's it truly is another 517 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: another industry, another faction out there, you know that has 518 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 1: a bigger lobbyists than than the wildlife group. But for 519 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 1: the most part, you know, there are there are more 520 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:21,119 Speaker 1: hunters than almost any other group out there. So you know, 521 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 1: if we work together, we certainly can can put that 522 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: power back in our trusted agencies hands. And the really 523 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,640 Speaker 1: thing that's held holding back is some of the agencies 524 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 1: you know that have not had good relationships with hunters 525 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: in the past, UM, really need to mend those and 526 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:38,880 Speaker 1: most are most have done a very good job over 527 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: the last five or ten years mending a lot of 528 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 1: those relationships and trying to improve them. And uh so 529 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: we just need to see more of that. And uh 530 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: you know, I think the longer that we worked, or 531 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 1: more hunters work with their agency, the better that relationship comes. 532 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: I think you'll see a return of some more of 533 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:59,120 Speaker 1: that science based management, which is very much needed. So 534 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 1: fair to say that pointing the finger and getting pissed 535 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,360 Speaker 1: at the wildlife agency most of the time isn't necessarily 536 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: the best course of action for US hunters. Maybe more 537 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: times it's how do we engage with them and better 538 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: understand where they're coming from and help out in that 539 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: stand From that standpoint, yeah, I'm an optimistic person, so 540 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: I always tried to take that approach of hey, you know, 541 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 1: even if we haven't got along well in the past, 542 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: let's let's let's work together on this now. Um, Because 543 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 1: there's a lot of people out there who are not 544 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 1: for hunting or our wildlife management. So as hunters, we 545 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,919 Speaker 1: and our agency managers, you really need to stand together 546 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,239 Speaker 1: on these so um, I encourage hums. Hey, you know, 547 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,679 Speaker 1: even if you don't have a good history within your 548 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 1: local biologist or your agency, you don't continue to try 549 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: to make that happen. You will continue to be positive 550 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: and be a productive part of the conversation. You know, 551 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 1: too many times I've seen hunters, you know, who are 552 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 1: upset with the agencies, who who then take every opportunity 553 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,159 Speaker 1: possible to kick them or degrade them, you know, and 554 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: that doesn't help anything, because is it anything that you 555 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: do in life, And this is especially true with Walleffe management. Um, 556 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: your view versus your your agency's view there still comes 557 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: down to a relationship there on whether you know the 558 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: people working for agen you like you as an individual 559 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: or not. And if they dislike you, it really doesn't 560 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 1: matter how good your ideas are, you're not all that 561 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: likely to have them implemented. So you know, I encourage you. Hey, 562 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 1: you know, it's good to make friends with your biologists 563 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: and your agency. And you don't have to agree on 564 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: everything for sure, but you know, at least let them 565 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: know that, Hey, you're here to help. You're not here 566 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,400 Speaker 1: to make the problems any worse or to kick them. 567 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 1: You know, that doesn't serve anybody good, even in the 568 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 1: in the wildlife world. Yeah, it's amazing how much you 569 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: see that kind of thing, especially, you know, with anything 570 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: these days of social media. The the villainization of some 571 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: of these agencies sometimes is, I don't know, it's it's 572 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: interesting to see how people it's very easy to point fingers, right, 573 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: and it's very easy to make assumption is about different 574 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 1: organizations or agencies, motivations or reasons for doing things. Um. 575 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: But oftentimes, at least in my opinion, it doesn't seem 576 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: to do a whole lot of good to just say 577 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: these guys are evil and they're trying to ruin our 578 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: hunting because of A B and c. Um. That doesn't 579 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,959 Speaker 1: seem to be too productive. More so, it's usually trying to, 580 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: you know, like you said, work with them, listen to them, 581 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: offer your suggestions, help out, or engage in some type 582 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: of way that's productive, versus just screaming and pointing fingers. 583 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: But that's I guess, uh kind of the way in 584 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: the world these days. Unfortunately. Um. Now you're right, you know, 585 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: and I'm privy to some closed door meetings and some 586 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: high level meetings with some of these agencies, and you know, 587 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: and I know I've heard you know, dear bods may 588 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: just to say, man, you know, we agree with you 589 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: or you know, we would love to do this. You know, 590 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: we're being told to do you know, be rather than 591 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: a or whatever the case may be. You know, And 592 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 1: so publicly this is our agency stands. Well, then a 593 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: hunter will hear the stands, and if it's against what 594 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: they want, they criticize them, you know, and I'll tell luck, 595 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: you know, he or she this you must may think 596 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 1: exactly like you, you know, take into account that you're 597 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: coming at this from a hunting in you know, particularly 598 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: very emotional and whereas our agency folks, yeah, they have 599 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 1: to determine or look at, you know, the biological value, 600 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: but they also have to do with, you know, the 601 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: social and political value of managementer and you know, sometimes 602 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: that gets in the way of what you know they 603 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: want to do, or certainly the way of what you 604 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: want to do. But continue to try to work with 605 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: them and be helpful at every opportunity, and that's just 606 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: much more likely that you'll end up is something productive 607 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: in the end. Yeah, yeah, true. So so let's move 608 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: on to the white Tails State of the Union, like 609 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: you mentioned, and at the beginning of your white Tail Report, 610 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: as you mentioned earlier, you guys really focus on harvest numbers, 611 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 1: harvest trends, um where do things stand today? As far 612 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 1: as what you guys are able to put together for 613 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: this two thousand and seventeen report. What are some of 614 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: the big takeaways. Well, we're starting to see a return 615 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 1: of the buck harvest in many states, which is a 616 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: very good thing. You know, we had a sliding carvest 617 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: for a few years in some regions and for a 618 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: long time in the Midwest. We're starting to see a 619 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: recovery of that in some places, which is very encouraging. 620 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 1: The antalysts harvest continues to decline. We're at about a 621 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: decade long decline now, almost down from where we were. 622 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: And uh and as soon as I say that, I 623 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 1: know people can think, oh God, this is bad. And 624 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: you know, this is one place where a lot of 625 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: agencies get themselves in trouble because they just tell whether 626 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: the harvest is up or down, and then hunters immediately 627 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: think if it's up, things are good. If it's down, 628 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 1: it's bad. Well, it's not necessarily the case, particularly from 629 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: the analysts, because there are a lot of agencies that 630 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 1: now whose deer numbers are much more in line with 631 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: what our habitats can support, so they will remove in 632 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: some antless harvest opportunity because we don't need to shoot 633 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: as made as we did. So if that, you know, 634 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: is the case, then a lower harvest in some states 635 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: can be a very good thing. So if you really 636 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: have to take a look at your specific example to 637 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: see is hey, is this reduced antless harvest? Is this 638 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: good or bad for the future. So even though it 639 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: is down in many cases, that marks a very positive 640 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: impact because of your herbs are are just in the 641 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: better shape today, are a better place than they were 642 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: in the past. So can I jump in really faster, 643 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: kip Um, Absolutely so. As you mentioned over the past 644 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,560 Speaker 1: few years when we've had this kind of discussion and 645 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: a lot of there's been a lot of talking to 646 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: media over the last two or three years about this 647 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 1: decline in in harvest, the decline in populations. There's a 648 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 1: lot of concern, you know, what's going on. The white 649 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,120 Speaker 1: tail heard all of a sudden is is you know, 650 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: possibly facing a crisis here, and so there's some of 651 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 1: that are looking at this as a crisis, and then 652 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: there were some that are saying, well, maybe this is 653 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: like a course correction. Maybe we were way above what 654 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 1: was really healthy and in balance with what these ecosystems 655 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: can handle. Maybe this is that balance we're correcting back 656 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: down to a point of balance. And in hindsight now 657 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: now that we're looking back on it, um, these past 658 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: few years, from your perspective and in the perspective of 659 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: maybe maybe you know agencies and whoever else you're previous 660 00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: to have these kind of conversations with, do you feel 661 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: now looking back on this, was it a correction and 662 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: we've reached a point of balance or was it actually 663 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: a crisis and we've just now stabilized. Which is it? 664 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: I do not think there was a crisis at all. Um. 665 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: I think that we were seeing a change for a 666 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: number of different reasons. Um. You know, things impact on 667 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: our deer herds. But I don't think what in most 668 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: places any way, we were not at crisis level. UM. 669 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 1: I do firmly believe that the average deer heer today 670 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: is much healthier, uh than it was a decade ago, 671 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: both from a numbers perspective, in an age structure perspective. Um, 672 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 1: I think that we certainly have an issue today with 673 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: with some of our farm recruitment rates that continue to decline, 674 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: something that we really need to keep an eye on. 675 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 1: But overall, our age structures are much better today than 676 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: the past, and a lot of deer herds are a 677 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: lot closer to being where they should be relative to 678 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: the habitat. So so that's a very good thing as well. 679 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: So I always encourage our agencies and anybody you know, 680 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 1: before you just start saying this year's harvest was upboard down, 681 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: talk about a relative you know, to what you wanted, 682 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: because every agency should have a target doe harvest each year, 683 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: and they should be able to calculate the target target 684 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: buck harvest, so they should talk about it relative to 685 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: what they expected to happen or what they wanted to happen, 686 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 1: rather than just upward down. And I know that the 687 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 1: news of the media you know, will report this was 688 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,439 Speaker 1: you know, a little bit up or a lot upper 689 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: or whatever. But as hunters, we need to be smarter 690 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 1: than that. We can't just look at up or down 691 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 1: and think good or bad. We need to take the 692 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,279 Speaker 1: next step and say, okay, let's see you know, is 693 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 1: this down a good thing or is it a bad thing? 694 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: Because everything is site specific, so hunters can definitely be 695 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 1: a little bit smarter from that in Yeah. So, so 696 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: it sounds like the decline in doll harvest was an 697 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: intended um, an intended result across some places. But you 698 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 1: mentioned that buck harvest was on the way back up. Um. 699 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: Do we have any idea of why that might be 700 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 1: the case? Why that the recent trend down maybe has 701 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: stopped now? Has there been any changes that you think 702 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,880 Speaker 1: might it be you know behind that? Yeah? I think so. 703 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,879 Speaker 1: And and all of the harvest data in our two 704 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: thousand seventeen report comes from the two thousand and fifteen 705 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: into sixteen deer season. And the reason for that is 706 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,239 Speaker 1: we published a report in January of each year, so 707 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,720 Speaker 1: we published it before you know the existing deer seasons 708 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,359 Speaker 1: is done. Um. You know there's seasons are run through 709 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: January and even into February and some states. So all 710 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: of the data that we talked about here, it's from 711 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: the two thousand and fifteen into sixteen season because it's 712 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 1: the most recent season where you have complete data that 713 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 1: you can analyze. And I think from that, what why 714 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 1: we had to buck harvest increase. UM agencies. You know, 715 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,319 Speaker 1: we're monitoring and seeing that the buck harvest was declining. Um, 716 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,320 Speaker 1: we had a couple of really bad hamorrhagic disease years 717 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 1: within the last decade, so that by agencies taken a 718 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 1: look at that, accounting for it. They have manipulated some 719 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,839 Speaker 1: of the analysts harvests moving forward such that if they 720 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 1: were in an area where you know what we really 721 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,879 Speaker 1: do need to say some dear, they've made changes such 722 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 1: that they can protect more antlers to do and allow 723 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 1: some of those three herds to recover a little bit. 724 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,880 Speaker 1: So I think there was you know, a few factors 725 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 1: like that that led into it, and almost all him 726 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,840 Speaker 1: intentional by our agencies, you know, to help correct that 727 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 1: buck harvest decline. So we're starting to see, uh see 728 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 1: that recovery. And the really cool thing about it is 729 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: it's the buck harvest total as all antler bucks. So 730 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,360 Speaker 1: we have a recovery in antler bucks, but then also 731 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 1: record numbers of them that are three and a half 732 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 1: are older, so it's not like we have a recovery 733 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:32,799 Speaker 1: and but they're all one and a half. You know, 734 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,800 Speaker 1: we have very very good age structure and an increased harvest, 735 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 1: you know, so that's a tremendous wind win for hunters. Yeah. 736 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: So here's something that I've heard some people talk about 737 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 1: kind of anecdotally, and I'm curious to see if you've 738 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,880 Speaker 1: heard of anything like this on a larger scale. Um. 739 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 1: You know, in the years of like two twelve and 740 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:52,520 Speaker 1: two thirteen, there was there was a lot of e 741 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 1: h D outbreaks across certain areas of the country, particularly 742 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: some spots in the Midwest, and you know, when that happened, 743 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,480 Speaker 1: there was large scale die offs in local areas of 744 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: a lot of bucks. Um. And the thought, though I 745 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,359 Speaker 1: think a lot of people had, was Okay, so there's 746 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,280 Speaker 1: been a significant reduction some of these older age class bucks. 747 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 1: But for the bucks that did survive because of reduced 748 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 1: competition for food, they're going to be much more likely 749 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,799 Speaker 1: to be able to have a lot of access to 750 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,279 Speaker 1: great nutrition and a better chance of reaching older age 751 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,839 Speaker 1: classes and being more healthy, you know, possibly reach their 752 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: full genetic potential from a whole bunch of different standpoints, 753 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 1: including potentially antler size, different things like that. Um, have 754 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 1: you heard of anything on a larger scale. Is that 755 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: something we're sort of seeing as we get into this 756 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,239 Speaker 1: twousan fifteen sixteen season, we're seeing some of these deer 757 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: that are now four years old UM or something like that, 758 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: that have lived in that post e h D outbreak 759 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,399 Speaker 1: world where they have better access to habitat and now 760 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 1: we're getting a healthier UM, more genetically reaching their potential 761 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:55,400 Speaker 1: deer herd well that that certainly can play a factor. 762 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: If you know the number of deer that died in 763 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 1: an area, we're large enough at it, the remaining deer 764 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,879 Speaker 1: had a big jump in amount of nutrition that's left. 765 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:08,080 Speaker 1: So so did that happen I don't know, it probably 766 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,239 Speaker 1: did in some areas. UM. That certainly can happen through 767 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,839 Speaker 1: you know, the HD die off or just good deer 768 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 1: herd management. UM. I would guess that that certainly played 769 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,600 Speaker 1: a role in that M Is it the major role? UM? 770 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:23,839 Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of other habitat work and 771 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:25,799 Speaker 1: herd management work going on right now. You don't have 772 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 1: to help make sure that deer get abundant, high quality nutrition. 773 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 1: So I think that probably had a bigger role in it. 774 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:37,080 Speaker 1: But the fact that there were fewer deer UM certainly 775 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:38,920 Speaker 1: plays right into the herd manager part of the mark. 776 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,400 Speaker 1: So I think they probably want hand in hand and 777 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 1: with what you were asking, and certainly allowed for more 778 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,279 Speaker 1: food for those bucks and the remaining doors than remaining balls. 779 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,399 Speaker 1: So that's just if everybody can get a little more 780 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: to eat, particularly a little more high quality food, let's 781 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: just do it all across that deer herd. Yeah, so 782 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,200 Speaker 1: you mentioned phone recruitment and that that's not trending in 783 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,919 Speaker 1: the right direction, and um, what are you seeing there? 784 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 1: What's the latest there and why is this still happening 785 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: and what's that means. I don't know if everybody understands 786 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 1: why fund recruitment rates are important and what that means 787 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 1: for the long term future of a deer herd. We 788 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 1: we monitor fund recruitment rates very closely because that is 789 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,520 Speaker 1: one of the best measures of a productivity of a 790 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,719 Speaker 1: deer herd. And what the faun recruitment rate is. It's 791 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 1: not the number of fetuses inside a pregnant dough or 792 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 1: it's not the number of fonds that hit the ground 793 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 1: in the spring or early summer. It's the number that 794 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,600 Speaker 1: are alive day one of your deer season in the fall. 795 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 1: So it takes into account, you know, the number that 796 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:38,919 Speaker 1: are born in the spring but then we see how 797 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 1: many of them make it to be about six months 798 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,319 Speaker 1: of age, you know, and are alive in the fall. 799 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,800 Speaker 1: And from a hunter's perspective, that's what's most important because 800 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,160 Speaker 1: that's a measure of the health of the deer herd 801 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 1: from a reproductive standpoint. And you know, how good is 802 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 1: the habitat. You have to provide good finding cover, etcetera. 803 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,400 Speaker 1: And food for the dough to feed that fall to 804 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,759 Speaker 1: allow it to not just be a day or two old, 805 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,160 Speaker 1: but to be six months old, you know, and enter 806 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,480 Speaker 1: the fall population. Well, if you if you back up 807 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:12,239 Speaker 1: a couple of decades, it was pretty close to one 808 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 1: fond per dole and uh you know when people think, man, 809 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,399 Speaker 1: those have twins, so you know there's a lot of fons. Well, 810 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:22,080 Speaker 1: in reality, you know, across the US, the average recruitment rate, 811 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,399 Speaker 1: you know, it was just under one phon per dole 812 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,800 Speaker 1: if you back up about twenty years. And that's because 813 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 1: you know, fons get eaten by bears and coyotes and bobcats, 814 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,239 Speaker 1: and they can hit by cars and you know, they 815 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 1: drown and they die and there's lots of things that 816 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,160 Speaker 1: kill them. So if you started with just under one 817 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,920 Speaker 1: phon per do twenty years ago. If you fast forward 818 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:45,040 Speaker 1: to now, it's down to like point five nine fons 819 00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,560 Speaker 1: per do. So what that means is for every dough 820 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:49,719 Speaker 1: out there in the fall, you know, there's just over 821 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,839 Speaker 1: half a font. So that's not man you could and 822 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,480 Speaker 1: it's certainly a lot less than it hasn't a bat. 823 00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:58,840 Speaker 1: And that's the thing that really to watch is you know, 824 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,160 Speaker 1: what does this trend do over the last decade or 825 00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,040 Speaker 1: last two decades, And uh, it's almost in a free 826 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: fall in some places. And obviously the number of falls 827 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,799 Speaker 1: being recruited is a direct result of you know, how 828 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,120 Speaker 1: healthy are those deer you know, those doughs getting enough 829 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,360 Speaker 1: good food to feed them, and how good is the 830 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,120 Speaker 1: habitat to protect them from you know, dying either of 831 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:23,120 Speaker 1: manutrition or or predators or whatever. So as hunters and managers, 832 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:27,120 Speaker 1: we want very productive deer heads. And the most or 833 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:28,880 Speaker 1: the way to have the most bucks in an area 834 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,920 Speaker 1: is to have the most funds born and then survived 835 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 1: to fall, because approximately every other fond born as a 836 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,560 Speaker 1: buck fun so they have most bucks. Is to have 837 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,279 Speaker 1: the most fonds be recruited into the deer herd because 838 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,720 Speaker 1: in the next year they have the first set of anilers. 839 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,880 Speaker 1: So it's a very different situation if you're recruiting about 840 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,879 Speaker 1: one fond per do versus if you're recruiting point six 841 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:53,480 Speaker 1: fons perduct, very very different. So it means a lot 842 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,680 Speaker 1: less bucks being introduced into those deer herds. Um, it 843 00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:58,720 Speaker 1: means a lot less aniles lest deer that the average 844 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,319 Speaker 1: hunter can shoot, so it's less meat for the table. So, 845 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,640 Speaker 1: you know, and some people point to finger right at predators, 846 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,120 Speaker 1: and in some cases predators are having a big impact, 847 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 1: particularly in the southeast, but that's not everywhere. You know, 848 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,719 Speaker 1: there's places where there are very few predators. You know, 849 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,520 Speaker 1: we still have decline and recruitment rates. So so there's 850 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:17,560 Speaker 1: definitely something going on with it that as hunters we 851 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,319 Speaker 1: need to really keep a close eye on. So if 852 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,120 Speaker 1: not predators, what are the other what are some of 853 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,879 Speaker 1: the other things that could be behind this. It can 854 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,520 Speaker 1: be just a lack of good habitat. So and if 855 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,120 Speaker 1: there's not good enough habitat, that means those doughs aren't 856 00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,919 Speaker 1: as nourished, which means they don't provide as much milk 857 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,600 Speaker 1: for the fons um. Some people think that a dough 858 00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,719 Speaker 1: doesn't have a really good diet, that her milk is 859 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,400 Speaker 1: lower quality, and that is not true. You know, a 860 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,839 Speaker 1: dough that starving will still have very high quality milk. 861 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:50,480 Speaker 1: But what happens is she just doesn't have very much 862 00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,440 Speaker 1: milk to feed her phones. So because of that, you know, 863 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:55,640 Speaker 1: they don't grow the way they should. You know, they're 864 00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,879 Speaker 1: they're malnurished, are weak. So you see fons dying that way, 865 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,120 Speaker 1: you see you know, just a love average um mortality 866 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,840 Speaker 1: rates for those fons um which is which is obviously 867 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,120 Speaker 1: not good at all, and it's just a red flag 868 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,920 Speaker 1: for that whole management program. You know, fons are dying 869 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:12,560 Speaker 1: at a high rate like that, and then you know 870 00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,839 Speaker 1: that's obviously not a good sign for those adults either 871 00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,520 Speaker 1: that those are healthy, which that means the bucks on 872 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:20,080 Speaker 1: all that healthy, they're not able to express their you know, 873 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:23,520 Speaker 1: the body growth or or antler growth potential, and so 874 00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:27,160 Speaker 1: that's not good for any of us. No, So on 875 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:32,879 Speaker 1: this habitat front, would it be correct to assume and 876 00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 1: I do this probably there probably is no way to 877 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,640 Speaker 1: really know this because it's over such a huge area. Um, 878 00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,879 Speaker 1: but I would make an assumption or my guests would 879 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:47,840 Speaker 1: be that over recent years, over the last twenty years, 880 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:52,160 Speaker 1: as more and more people have gotten have become focused 881 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,880 Speaker 1: on managing for deer and focusing on improving habitat for 882 00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,920 Speaker 1: deer and different things like that. On average, my assumption 883 00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:02,280 Speaker 1: would be that of it land habitat quality for deer 884 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,680 Speaker 1: has likely increased if you were to, you know, look 885 00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,960 Speaker 1: at at a large scale level, there's probably been an 886 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,320 Speaker 1: increasing in habitat quality for dear because of that interest 887 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:16,160 Speaker 1: in dear and that focus and education. Um, I guess 888 00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:18,759 Speaker 1: number one, do you think that's a safe assumption? And 889 00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,279 Speaker 1: then number two, if that is an assumption we can 890 00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:25,080 Speaker 1: safely make if we think that private land habitat is 891 00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,319 Speaker 1: improving on a larger area of land being managed for deer, 892 00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:32,040 Speaker 1: Now where is the habitat degradation happening? Then? Is it 893 00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,759 Speaker 1: because more and more private land is being taken out 894 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,160 Speaker 1: of you know, natural growth and being put into mono 895 00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,440 Speaker 1: culture agriculture just big corn fields and bean fields, or 896 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,759 Speaker 1: is it something else entirely Well, for the first part, 897 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:49,560 Speaker 1: I think absolutely yes. I think the average landowner today 898 00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,960 Speaker 1: who who's interested in hunting his or her land, is 899 00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,600 Speaker 1: they understand far more about improvement for habitat, and there's 900 00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,359 Speaker 1: more habitat management going on than than I would say 901 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,560 Speaker 1: probably ever before in the name of deer, which is 902 00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:05,560 Speaker 1: really good because then there's a lot of other species 903 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,239 Speaker 1: that benefit from that. UM. So, I think some of 904 00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:10,880 Speaker 1: the habitat degradation issues were facing. One of it is 905 00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:16,279 Speaker 1: certainly conversion of wildlife habitat to crop land, particularly road 906 00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:20,880 Speaker 1: crops UM. We lost a full quarter of our CRP land, 907 00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:25,319 Speaker 1: you know, during the last decade, a full gone, and 908 00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,960 Speaker 1: that's the most successful wildlife habitat program you know, from 909 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,480 Speaker 1: from our federal government that's ever been implemented. And with 910 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:37,400 Speaker 1: increased road crop prices UM a few years ago, we 911 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,160 Speaker 1: lost millions and millions of acres. So I think that 912 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:42,919 Speaker 1: is a big part of it, and that particularly hurt 913 00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:46,799 Speaker 1: the Midwest region, the Northeast, and the southeast. Yes, it 914 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:48,799 Speaker 1: hurts us to lose that, but we have a lot 915 00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:52,520 Speaker 1: of cover anyway. But in much of the Midwest, you know, 916 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,719 Speaker 1: the limiting habitat component was cover and now you're removing 917 00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,800 Speaker 1: millions and millions of acres of the most limiting habitat 918 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,759 Speaker 1: on it, So that really hurts those deer hurts. So 919 00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:05,520 Speaker 1: that is part of it um. But also part of 920 00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:07,479 Speaker 1: it is you have a lot of landowners who either 921 00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:11,440 Speaker 1: are not hunters or um are just not that interested 922 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,440 Speaker 1: in that part of it that we have force at habitat. 923 00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:18,000 Speaker 1: It's just maturing and mature forest just doesn't provide all 924 00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:20,319 Speaker 1: that much for deer, you know, with the exception of 925 00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:23,520 Speaker 1: wintering areas in the north where they have to have 926 00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,759 Speaker 1: that thermal cover and protection. Um. You know, these these 927 00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:31,920 Speaker 1: overgrown hardwood forests you know, all through Appalachia and throughout 928 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,319 Speaker 1: much of the White Tails range. Uh, young forest very 929 00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:37,399 Speaker 1: good for deer, but ture force, you know, not so much. 930 00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:39,839 Speaker 1: They just don't support that many deer. If you take 931 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,160 Speaker 1: a look at percentage of forest in the US, you know, 932 00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,600 Speaker 1: we're about where we were a few decades ago. So 933 00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,520 Speaker 1: we're really not losing forest, But what we are losing 934 00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:50,640 Speaker 1: a very quick amount are those young forests. Those young 935 00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,080 Speaker 1: forests that provide the most food and cover for deer 936 00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:55,799 Speaker 1: to just simply mature and the mature force just can't 937 00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:59,400 Speaker 1: support as many deer as younger ones can. So is 938 00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:03,080 Speaker 1: there anything being done, um from a state level or 939 00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:06,400 Speaker 1: national level to try to incentivize some type of force 940 00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:08,759 Speaker 1: management that might be able to help us reset that 941 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,319 Speaker 1: or anything other than that that's being done to try 942 00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,160 Speaker 1: to address that issue of these maturing force across the 943 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,200 Speaker 1: country and what that means for wildlife. Yeah, there is, 944 00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:19,800 Speaker 1: there's a lot of initiatives and incentives from the states. 945 00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:23,000 Speaker 1: And actually QT may has a new employee, a young 946 00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:26,160 Speaker 1: Force specialist that's working for us in New York. That 947 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:29,239 Speaker 1: his job every day, you know, he talks with and 948 00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:33,520 Speaker 1: meets with private landowners to teach them the benefits of 949 00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:36,440 Speaker 1: having young force on their property from a wildlife then 950 00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:40,000 Speaker 1: and his job is to to talk to convert older 951 00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,880 Speaker 1: force too younger force in the name of wildlife habitat. 952 00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:48,160 Speaker 1: So that's do a grant from from the nrcs UM program. 953 00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,520 Speaker 1: So there are similar initiatives like that in other states 954 00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,399 Speaker 1: as well. So there's actually a big push all through 955 00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,120 Speaker 1: New England in New York right now along those lines 956 00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:01,160 Speaker 1: because you know, we're losing grouse uh like crazy because 957 00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:03,719 Speaker 1: same thing force their mature and and they really need 958 00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:06,400 Speaker 1: those young forests too. So um, and there's a lot 959 00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:10,000 Speaker 1: of songbirds and other interior four species you know, that 960 00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,760 Speaker 1: need that type of habitat and we're just losing that 961 00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,040 Speaker 1: such a fast rate that we are see in some 962 00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:18,200 Speaker 1: states and federal programs to try to to increase the 963 00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:21,440 Speaker 1: amount of that. And so certainly from QB Man, we 964 00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,920 Speaker 1: recognize it from from deer unders, you know that the 965 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,240 Speaker 1: value of those young forests, and so we're very excited 966 00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:28,799 Speaker 1: to have that guy there to be able to work 967 00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,240 Speaker 1: with private land owners to do that. All T staff 968 00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:34,600 Speaker 1: encourage the land owners to do as well. But it's 969 00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:36,400 Speaker 1: pretty cool that we have a guy on the ground 970 00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,080 Speaker 1: actually meeting with landowners every day to actually make that 971 00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:42,439 Speaker 1: a reality. Yeah, weah very true that that is very cool. Now, 972 00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:48,719 Speaker 1: it's also important to have diversity in the age of 973 00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:51,920 Speaker 1: habitat as well, right because correctly if I'm wrong, but 974 00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,160 Speaker 1: my assumption is that it's really important to have young forest. 975 00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:58,479 Speaker 1: But we don't want to have no old growth forest either, 976 00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:00,760 Speaker 1: right for other wildlife species, and they're just the balance 977 00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:03,560 Speaker 1: of an ecosystem. I mean, there's value to all the above. 978 00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:05,360 Speaker 1: It's just a matter of making sure you don't have 979 00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,240 Speaker 1: all of just one. Is that correct? That is correct? 980 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,879 Speaker 1: That is absolutely correct. Diversity is key, and right now 981 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,240 Speaker 1: we just have way too much of the older stuff 982 00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,960 Speaker 1: and way too little of the young forest. So yeah, 983 00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:19,680 Speaker 1: we don't want to have all young forests, but we 984 00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:23,120 Speaker 1: want a good range of age classes and making sure 985 00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,320 Speaker 1: that we have an ample amount in that young forest. 986 00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,440 Speaker 1: And so so that's the intent of that program. Yeah, 987 00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,680 Speaker 1: that makes sense. Now to the other piece of habitat. Um. 988 00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,839 Speaker 1: You mentioned the CRP issue out in the Midwest. Um. 989 00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:36,920 Speaker 1: You mentioned over the last decade, we've lost millions and 990 00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:40,200 Speaker 1: millions of acres. UM, where do we spend Where do 991 00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:43,760 Speaker 1: we stand right now with UM, with the CRP program, 992 00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:46,600 Speaker 1: with the next Farm bill and what's being proposed or 993 00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:49,320 Speaker 1: anything like that. Um, are we in a state where 994 00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:51,920 Speaker 1: we think it's going to only get worse or things changing? 995 00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:55,360 Speaker 1: What's the future look like for CRP and cover programs 996 00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,600 Speaker 1: like that across the Midwest in the country. Well, well, 997 00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,400 Speaker 1: I don't know what the discussions are within the farm 998 00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:03,359 Speaker 1: bill to where that next step is going to go 999 00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:06,400 Speaker 1: with that, but but I do know that you know, 1000 00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:08,799 Speaker 1: all that land that we lost was due to those 1001 00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:12,319 Speaker 1: higher commodity prices. So people think, well, okay, now you 1002 00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:14,520 Speaker 1: know corn and beans, the price of drops like crazy. 1003 00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:17,320 Speaker 1: Can't we just put that land back into CRP? But 1004 00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:19,359 Speaker 1: but it's not that easy because you know, you look 1005 00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:23,440 Speaker 1: at many of those agricultural producers when they greatly ramp 1006 00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,680 Speaker 1: up their production um and then put those acres back 1007 00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:32,440 Speaker 1: into road crops. That often comes with additional equipment, you know, factors, drills, plows, 1008 00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:36,720 Speaker 1: this combines, etcetera. So when it's all of a sudden 1009 00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,760 Speaker 1: the commodity prices are down, those farmers can't just stop 1010 00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:41,960 Speaker 1: crop farming that. You know, they're they're caught in that. 1011 00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:45,600 Speaker 1: You know, they have to pay for that equipment. So 1012 00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:49,920 Speaker 1: in many cases they continue to farm those acres, you know, 1013 00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:52,359 Speaker 1: to just be able to help make or at least 1014 00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:55,680 Speaker 1: hopefully make payments for all that equipment. So it's not 1015 00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:58,000 Speaker 1: nearly as easy as okay, let's just put it back 1016 00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,359 Speaker 1: into some good while I have aitat. So we get 1017 00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:02,320 Speaker 1: caught with that and that's not you know, not a 1018 00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:04,920 Speaker 1: good place at all. Um. I'm not sure what the 1019 00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,359 Speaker 1: next farm bill will be or how that will help 1020 00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:09,960 Speaker 1: from a while habitat end. I think we're very lucky 1021 00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:13,400 Speaker 1: with our new administration and uh Washington d C is 1022 00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:16,680 Speaker 1: very pro conservation minded. Um. That is very good from 1023 00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:19,560 Speaker 1: our end. But we'll see what happens from while the 1024 00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:24,759 Speaker 1: habitat end. At least with our federal programs. Interesting, in 1025 00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:27,279 Speaker 1: what ways do you think our our new administration is 1026 00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:30,200 Speaker 1: pro conservation from that standpoint? Is there anything specific you 1027 00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:36,520 Speaker 1: you're referencing there? Well? At least um throughout the campaign 1028 00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:40,319 Speaker 1: he talked about his conservation views. Um. I know he 1029 00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:43,200 Speaker 1: comes and released his sons are hunters, which is a 1030 00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:46,040 Speaker 1: very good thing. There has been talk with with much 1031 00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:49,279 Speaker 1: of the conservation community leading up to the election on 1032 00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:52,919 Speaker 1: promises or campaign promises and ideas of what he would 1033 00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:56,319 Speaker 1: like to see. So, UM, I think that we're a 1034 00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,839 Speaker 1: much better spot from that end, you know who our 1035 00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:02,600 Speaker 1: leaders and Washington that we've been in quite some time. UM, 1036 00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:07,600 Speaker 1: certainly more pro conservation um than we've seen recently. So 1037 00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:10,200 Speaker 1: I'm really hopeful for from that end of it that 1038 00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:12,920 Speaker 1: this can be good for our wildlife management and wilde 1039 00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:17,120 Speaker 1: habitat efforts. Okay, yeah, I'm I'm gonna be interested to 1040 00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:20,520 Speaker 1: see what happens to I hope, I hope that those 1041 00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:24,520 Speaker 1: things are true because we certainly, we certainly need, we 1042 00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:26,560 Speaker 1: need that support from the top all the way down 1043 00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:31,120 Speaker 1: to the bottom. So back to the harvest stuff. Um, 1044 00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:35,280 Speaker 1: you mentioned that the data you were referencing was fifteen 1045 00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,040 Speaker 1: and sixteen data. But I do know that some two 1046 00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:40,880 Speaker 1: thousand sixteen hunting season stuff has been rolling in. What 1047 00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:43,040 Speaker 1: have you seen from the states that have reported on 1048 00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:46,359 Speaker 1: two thousand and sixteen data so far? From one I've 1049 00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:49,440 Speaker 1: seen it. I try to keep up with that as well. UM, 1050 00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,440 Speaker 1: you know, it makes a lot of headlines. Um, we 1051 00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,160 Speaker 1: saw was a lot of what we've heard about thus 1052 00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:58,560 Speaker 1: far in two thousand sixteen was very similar to fifteen. Um. 1053 00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,439 Speaker 1: Some of them have been down literally a percentage point 1054 00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:03,800 Speaker 1: or two. UM. Some have been up, you know, within 1055 00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:06,400 Speaker 1: five percent of what they were last year. So UM. 1056 00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:10,640 Speaker 1: Some of the big states like Pennsylvania hasn't reported there 1057 00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:12,359 Speaker 1: as yet, and they typically don't have all of those 1058 00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:14,239 Speaker 1: numbers for another month or so, at least they don't 1059 00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:17,640 Speaker 1: make them available. So I don't know exactly what will happen, 1060 00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:19,879 Speaker 1: but I would guess the two thousand and sixteen buck 1061 00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:22,480 Speaker 1: card I'm side of, the two thousand sixteen into seventeen 1062 00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:25,759 Speaker 1: buck harvest will likely be very close to what we 1063 00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:29,280 Speaker 1: saw a year before that. So so I'm hopeful. Anyway, 1064 00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:31,640 Speaker 1: I'd like to see a continue to creep up and 1065 00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:34,880 Speaker 1: uh and edge back in in a positive direction. Um, 1066 00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:36,880 Speaker 1: But we don't want to see a huge increase in it. 1067 00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,960 Speaker 1: It's much better to have that thing moved slowly up 1068 00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:43,200 Speaker 1: or down. So now that we have a corner turn 1069 00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:45,160 Speaker 1: and it's set it up slowly, it would be nice 1070 00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:47,759 Speaker 1: to see it stay pretty consistent or maybe bump up 1071 00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:49,879 Speaker 1: a percentage point or two as we go. Um, that's 1072 00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:51,799 Speaker 1: that's a very stable you know, I had a very 1073 00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:55,840 Speaker 1: good thing for for our hunting. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. 1074 00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:59,280 Speaker 1: Was there anything else from a harvest standpoint that stood 1075 00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:00,840 Speaker 1: up to you that was you you can I know 1076 00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:03,640 Speaker 1: you mentioned that the age structure continues to we continue 1077 00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:06,520 Speaker 1: to be at near record levels for three and a 1078 00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:09,279 Speaker 1: half year old or older. Um, was there anything when 1079 00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:12,840 Speaker 1: that came to you know, harvest split out by weapon 1080 00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:15,759 Speaker 1: or antless harvest, or any of the other things that 1081 00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:18,840 Speaker 1: you guys took note of their of interest? Yeah. I 1082 00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:22,120 Speaker 1: think the one thing, certainly, the age structure is the biggest. 1083 00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:24,400 Speaker 1: But the next thing that it's really interesting to me 1084 00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:25,960 Speaker 1: is if you take a look at the harvest by 1085 00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:29,600 Speaker 1: weapon tights and we break this out. We monitor this 1086 00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:33,480 Speaker 1: each year as well, and firearms still take about two 1087 00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:35,760 Speaker 1: thirds of the deer harvest. You know, a Rifler shotgun. 1088 00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:39,040 Speaker 1: And what we saw in two thousand fifteen was firearms 1089 00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:43,600 Speaker 1: were right at the entire harvest. However, from the bow end, 1090 00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:48,680 Speaker 1: um bow was and so it's between a fifth and 1091 00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:51,200 Speaker 1: a quarter. But there were some states that reported the 1092 00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:54,799 Speaker 1: cross bow harvest kind of in the other category. So 1093 00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:58,560 Speaker 1: some states combined bow and crossbow, some separated. And if 1094 00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:02,200 Speaker 1: you look at whether it's vertical bowl across bow, you know, 1095 00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:05,319 Speaker 1: bows are taken getting pretty close to a quarter of 1096 00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:08,680 Speaker 1: the harvest, and that's really bumped up. Fifteen years ago, 1097 00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:12,839 Speaker 1: the bow harvest was only of all the harvest, and 1098 00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:18,480 Speaker 1: now we're pushing that. I think, so what we're seeing 1099 00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:22,040 Speaker 1: is the bow having a much bigger impact on total 1100 00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:24,799 Speaker 1: deer harvest. And I think that's for a couple of reasons. One, 1101 00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:28,080 Speaker 1: as I said, we're more urbanized than ever before. There's 1102 00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:30,680 Speaker 1: just a lot more boat hunting opportunities today. You know, 1103 00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:33,360 Speaker 1: in places where we have firearm restrictions, you just can't 1104 00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:37,440 Speaker 1: use uh guns and or even muzzle orders in some cases. 1105 00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:40,480 Speaker 1: You know inside places today or in stude these limits 1106 00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:42,960 Speaker 1: of cities or towns where you know, a few years 1107 00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:45,120 Speaker 1: ago it was open and we could hold on them 1108 00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:48,000 Speaker 1: so I think bows have more of an opportunity. Obviously, 1109 00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:50,839 Speaker 1: the big crossbow push over the last five or six 1110 00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:54,160 Speaker 1: years has brought new people into the sport and archery 1111 00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:56,640 Speaker 1: hunters that are switching over to crossbows and in some 1112 00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:59,759 Speaker 1: cases being a little more effective. So I think we're 1113 00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:01,879 Speaker 1: seeing and more of that is the reason for that. 1114 00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:03,800 Speaker 1: And what my prediction is is that we're going to 1115 00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:06,320 Speaker 1: continue to see that bump up as we go forward, 1116 00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:08,920 Speaker 1: because it's not like we're gonna get any less urbanized. 1117 00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:12,080 Speaker 1: And uh as more people get into that, we have 1118 00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:15,560 Speaker 1: longer archer seasons, we have more archery opportunity, We have 1119 00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:18,800 Speaker 1: a lot of recruitment programs begging people, you know, to 1120 00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:21,520 Speaker 1: get in and try those so so and I see 1121 00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:24,280 Speaker 1: that is a good thing. So I think we'll continue 1122 00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:27,360 Speaker 1: to see that bow bump up. And one thing that 1123 00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:30,680 Speaker 1: we do monitors. You know what state harvest the higher 1124 00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:32,760 Speaker 1: percentage of their deer with the bow than anybody else 1125 00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:35,360 Speaker 1: and you're in the year out that's always New Jersey. 1126 00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:38,439 Speaker 1: New Jersey was the only state that harvested over half 1127 00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:40,480 Speaker 1: of the deer with the bow well last year for 1128 00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:43,160 Speaker 1: the first time. Now we have two states that have 1129 00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:44,919 Speaker 1: harvested at least half of the deer of the bow. 1130 00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:48,520 Speaker 1: Connecticut has been added to that, and uh so, I 1131 00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:50,480 Speaker 1: think that's a trend that we're going to see continue, 1132 00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:53,080 Speaker 1: and just more states are going to take more of 1133 00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:56,640 Speaker 1: their deer with the bow moving forward, particularly states that 1134 00:56:56,719 --> 00:57:00,240 Speaker 1: tend to be more urbanized or have higher human dense 1135 00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:04,520 Speaker 1: and and we're assuming this is because there's just less 1136 00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:07,200 Speaker 1: area that is available to hunt with the firearm in 1137 00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:09,600 Speaker 1: those states are those areas, and there's way more areas 1138 00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:11,719 Speaker 1: that are you know, bo only probably because of that 1139 00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:17,160 Speaker 1: very urban type setting. That's certainly a big reason New 1140 00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:20,040 Speaker 1: Jersey is the most urbanized state in the country. I'm 1141 00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:22,840 Speaker 1: sort of the most densely populated state in the country, 1142 00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:26,000 Speaker 1: so that plays into a lot um. I don't think 1143 00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:28,000 Speaker 1: that's the only reason, you know, but I think that 1144 00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:30,560 Speaker 1: that is probably the biggest reason. And I also think 1145 00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:33,000 Speaker 1: that's why the two states that have taken more than 1146 00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:34,840 Speaker 1: half of their deer with the bow, you know, our 1147 00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:39,560 Speaker 1: states that are high you know, urban populations and just 1148 00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:44,840 Speaker 1: not big rural areas. So I bet you'll see that continue. Yeah. So, so, 1149 00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:47,880 Speaker 1: speaking of urban deer, urban areas and deer hunting in 1150 00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:51,680 Speaker 1: urban areas. UM kind of shifting gears here to some 1151 00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:54,600 Speaker 1: of the more issue and advocable issue focus things. I 1152 00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:56,840 Speaker 1: know part two of your white Tail report is is 1153 00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:58,919 Speaker 1: focused on that. I don't remember if I saw anything 1154 00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:02,520 Speaker 1: in the report about this specifically, UM, but just from 1155 00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:04,919 Speaker 1: you know, following the news over the last year or so, 1156 00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:09,760 Speaker 1: there's been a lot of controversy around urban deer management. 1157 00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:14,160 Speaker 1: There's been tons and tons of protests around hunts being 1158 00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:18,040 Speaker 1: allowed in some urban centers, or sharpshooters being hired to 1159 00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:20,640 Speaker 1: kill deer in certain areas, or even in some areas 1160 00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:25,040 Speaker 1: hiring organizations to go and sterilize deer. UM. Can you 1161 00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:28,320 Speaker 1: give us a high level idea of what's been going 1162 00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:30,880 Speaker 1: on from that standpoint and what you think or what 1163 00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:33,000 Speaker 1: the cutie may thinks about these trends that we're seeing 1164 00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:37,480 Speaker 1: in urban deer management. Yeah, you're right, we're seeing more 1165 00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:40,880 Speaker 1: of that UM in large part because of our urbanized nature. 1166 00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:42,520 Speaker 1: You know, we just have more gears that are in 1167 00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:45,280 Speaker 1: areas now that cannot be hunted and and deer do 1168 00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:48,880 Speaker 1: very well in suburbia as your waterway. They you know, 1169 00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:51,200 Speaker 1: they do real good in our backyards and eating our gardens. 1170 00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:52,960 Speaker 1: And then that kind of stuff. So I think it's 1171 00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:55,560 Speaker 1: a promise we're just going to continue to increase. We 1172 00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:58,960 Speaker 1: have agencies working like crazy on that in different states 1173 00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:02,960 Speaker 1: trying to address it, but but nobody's you know, certainly 1174 00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:04,920 Speaker 1: have not been able to solve the problem yet. And 1175 00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:07,440 Speaker 1: part of it is once you get into those areas, 1176 00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:11,000 Speaker 1: the game is so different from you our our recreational 1177 00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:14,400 Speaker 1: hunting or our support hunting, as people often say. You know, 1178 00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:17,480 Speaker 1: there's so many different views first of all, and what 1179 00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:19,680 Speaker 1: you can kill a deer with, even if if that 1180 00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:24,640 Speaker 1: is the path that the community wants to take, but 1181 00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:26,680 Speaker 1: even before you know, to get to that point, there 1182 00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:30,160 Speaker 1: are so many meetings and red tape off and that 1183 00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:32,040 Speaker 1: you end up having the crust just to decide what 1184 00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:33,320 Speaker 1: to do with them. You know, are we going to 1185 00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:35,200 Speaker 1: kill him or are we not? You know, and any 1186 00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:37,240 Speaker 1: emotions run high, and as soon as you get all 1187 00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:39,680 Speaker 1: those emotions and those meetings and then it just takes 1188 00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:41,880 Speaker 1: forever to come to some type of conclusion on what 1189 00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:46,080 Speaker 1: to do because of that, and there's no doubt, unequivocally 1190 00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:48,920 Speaker 1: the absolutely best thing to do for those areas and 1191 00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:51,920 Speaker 1: for those deer are to to remove some of them. 1192 00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:53,800 Speaker 1: You know, if you could hunt them, that's certainly the 1193 00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,160 Speaker 1: best and cheapest. If not, you need to kill him somehow. 1194 00:59:56,640 --> 01:00:00,439 Speaker 1: And uh, but that's not always causible like us to 1195 01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:03,160 Speaker 1: to the people involved. UM So, because of that, then 1196 01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:06,960 Speaker 1: you end up with things like the sterilization for some programs, 1197 01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:08,320 Speaker 1: they do it on bucks something, they do it on 1198 01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:11,320 Speaker 1: dough and then it just turns into a nightmare, you know, 1199 01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:15,080 Speaker 1: extremely expensive. Um none of those programs have been shown 1200 01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:17,880 Speaker 1: to be helpful for long term because even if you know, 1201 01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:20,840 Speaker 1: if you sterilize those deer, it's not like you're starting 1202 01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:23,000 Speaker 1: with a population that's where it should be. You know, 1203 01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:25,440 Speaker 1: you're you're brought to the table because there's a huge 1204 01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:29,760 Speaker 1: problem with too many. So you need to address that number. 1205 01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:32,680 Speaker 1: And you know, it's not a once and done thing. 1206 01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:35,200 Speaker 1: You need to address the number on an annual basis. 1207 01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:38,400 Speaker 1: And most of those urban situations like that, whether it's 1208 01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:42,360 Speaker 1: you know, at Cornell University, whether sterilizing deer or an 1209 01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:45,000 Speaker 1: arbor or you know, pick a city anymore, it's it's 1210 01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:48,720 Speaker 1: in the news all the time. They are extremely expensive 1211 01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:53,160 Speaker 1: and in the end, mostly ineffective. Do we do we 1212 01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:57,920 Speaker 1: risk Here's what I'm thinking when you're seeing this option 1213 01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:00,520 Speaker 1: of sterilization being put on the table of more and 1214 01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:03,080 Speaker 1: more often these states, cities like you mentioned and on 1215 01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:05,280 Speaker 1: Long Island and doing it now and and our weather, 1216 01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:07,600 Speaker 1: I think they're talking about doing it. Are they are doing? 1217 01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:11,439 Speaker 1: And never? Um, as this is being proposed and being 1218 01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:17,200 Speaker 1: accepted in more places, do we risk the do we 1219 01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:20,400 Speaker 1: risk precedent being set? Are we actually seeing in each 1220 01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:24,400 Speaker 1: of these little debates in these communities the value of 1221 01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:27,840 Speaker 1: hunting as a means for management? Is that up for 1222 01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:31,600 Speaker 1: Is that up for judgment in a little tiny way 1223 01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:33,800 Speaker 1: in each one of these situations, Because when you're going 1224 01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:37,520 Speaker 1: in then they're they're debating the merits of a hunter 1225 01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:42,120 Speaker 1: harvest versus a controlled sharp sugar harvest versus a sterilization 1226 01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:45,800 Speaker 1: program as the means to manage dear populations. If the 1227 01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:49,240 Speaker 1: precedent starts being set that in these communities that sterilization 1228 01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:51,800 Speaker 1: is the way to go, and that people say, Okay, 1229 01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:55,320 Speaker 1: we're doing this, They're gonna say it works. Maybe, um, 1230 01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:58,000 Speaker 1: do we risk that continuing to spread and spread and spread, 1231 01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:00,920 Speaker 1: and someday years from now people are saying, well, hey, 1232 01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:05,440 Speaker 1: we've been we've been proving sterilization can work in these areas. 1233 01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:08,480 Speaker 1: You know, on this scale, we don't need hunters anymore. 1234 01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:10,840 Speaker 1: Is that something that you know, even though it's way 1235 01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:13,120 Speaker 1: way down the road, do we need to be worried 1236 01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:16,120 Speaker 1: about that? And as hunters be more active in trying 1237 01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:21,919 Speaker 1: to fight that misconception now early while we still can, well, 1238 01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:25,440 Speaker 1: I don't think that's going to replace hunting moving forward. 1239 01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:28,640 Speaker 1: And the reason for that is, at least yet, nobody 1240 01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:31,960 Speaker 1: has been effective as solving the problem with these other means, 1241 01:02:32,560 --> 01:02:36,480 Speaker 1: and it has just been extremely extremely expensive, you know, 1242 01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:40,200 Speaker 1: far more expensive and than to ever solve with hunters. 1243 01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:42,400 Speaker 1: So because of that, you know, I think that only 1244 01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:44,400 Speaker 1: happens in these areas because you often end up with 1245 01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:48,200 Speaker 1: very influential people who had the means to to pay 1246 01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:50,720 Speaker 1: for these essentially, you know, to allow it to happen. 1247 01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:54,040 Speaker 1: You know, if there was the average citizen UM or 1248 01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:56,959 Speaker 1: blue collar worker, there's no way they could ever pay 1249 01:02:57,000 --> 01:03:00,320 Speaker 1: for this to happen. So because of that, I don't 1250 01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:02,640 Speaker 1: see it as a big threat to the future of hunting. Um. 1251 01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:04,720 Speaker 1: I don't think it's a good thing in these areas. 1252 01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:07,240 Speaker 1: You know, every time you open up another opportunity, I 1253 01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:09,880 Speaker 1: guess there is the potential for what you're saying, UM, 1254 01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:13,120 Speaker 1: but the long term that that that doesn't scare me 1255 01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:16,160 Speaker 1: UM nearly as much as some of the disease issues 1256 01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:19,200 Speaker 1: out there for for our future. So let's talk about 1257 01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:23,720 Speaker 1: that disease issues. What's uh. You know, as we mentioned earlier, 1258 01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:26,160 Speaker 1: there were some big h D scares a few years ago. 1259 01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:28,720 Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like that has been quite as severe 1260 01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:31,960 Speaker 1: the past few years, UM, but c w D continues 1261 01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:34,000 Speaker 1: to pop up. Can you give us a quick primer 1262 01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:36,840 Speaker 1: on what's happened recently with both of those and then 1263 01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:39,439 Speaker 1: maybe we can I'd be interested in diving deeper into 1264 01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:41,680 Speaker 1: the c w D front, but maybe start with a 1265 01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:45,760 Speaker 1: quick overaw of what's the last on HD sure HEMORRHADG 1266 01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:49,080 Speaker 1: disease uh. Um. Luckily and two thousand sixteen was not 1267 01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:51,880 Speaker 1: a bad year again and most of the US A 1268 01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:54,520 Speaker 1: couple of places it was pretty severe, though West Virginia 1269 01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:58,960 Speaker 1: and Virginia had really bad outbreaks again. UM. The bigger 1270 01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:01,200 Speaker 1: issue I think with them ragic disease right now is 1271 01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:04,320 Speaker 1: we're starting to see new strains of the virus um 1272 01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:07,680 Speaker 1: in the US and moving northward at pretty rapid rates. 1273 01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:10,600 Speaker 1: One of the neat things about him raging disease is 1274 01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:13,960 Speaker 1: deer can build an immunity to a specific strain of it. 1275 01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:16,840 Speaker 1: So that's why, you know, this used to be just 1276 01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:20,720 Speaker 1: considered a disease kind of the southeastern US, and deer 1277 01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:22,800 Speaker 1: down the area a few got it every year. It 1278 01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:24,920 Speaker 1: was never all that bad because they saw it all 1279 01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:28,280 Speaker 1: the time. And then all of a sudden started moving north. Now, 1280 01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:32,080 Speaker 1: whether that's climate change or something else, it doesn't matter 1281 01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:34,959 Speaker 1: that it's definitely moving north, you know. So the first 1282 01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:37,400 Speaker 1: time our northern deer see it, they're their naive to 1283 01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:40,040 Speaker 1: it and it kills the snot on them. Well, so 1284 01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:42,800 Speaker 1: that is continuing to happen here in the north every 1285 01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:45,320 Speaker 1: few years. But also we're starting to see these new 1286 01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:48,040 Speaker 1: strains in the south that are killing the snot on 1287 01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:50,200 Speaker 1: some of our southern deer because they're naive to it. 1288 01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:53,400 Speaker 1: So it uh, there's a there's a big concern by 1289 01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:56,600 Speaker 1: many today regarding him a ragic disease because of these 1290 01:04:56,600 --> 01:04:59,040 Speaker 1: new strains and some of the movement of it. So 1291 01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:00,960 Speaker 1: I think it's some that we need to be very 1292 01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:06,800 Speaker 1: uh carefully watching. Um it's the most common disease of 1293 01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:09,240 Speaker 1: wait till deer. You know, it's been happening forever, but 1294 01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:12,360 Speaker 1: we're certainly seeing some different trends and what's happening with 1295 01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:14,280 Speaker 1: it now, so something we really need to keep her 1296 01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:16,880 Speaker 1: eye on. You know, there's no cure, there's no vaccines, 1297 01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:18,360 Speaker 1: so there's nothing that we can do it from that 1298 01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:22,640 Speaker 1: and other than just antalyst harvest as necessary. And and 1299 01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:27,160 Speaker 1: since you know it's dependent on the vector, a little 1300 01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:29,919 Speaker 1: no seem that transfers it from one to another. It's 1301 01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:32,680 Speaker 1: not like an individual deer is passing it to another 1302 01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:36,520 Speaker 1: deer directly anyway else Certainly the vector can bite the 1303 01:05:36,560 --> 01:05:38,640 Speaker 1: deer and then take that to another deer and infect them. 1304 01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:41,240 Speaker 1: But from the management end, you know, we need to 1305 01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:44,920 Speaker 1: monitor it. There's not a really result of our actions 1306 01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:48,400 Speaker 1: that's impact in additional deer because of it. So that 1307 01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:50,800 Speaker 1: makes it very different from c w D, and I 1308 01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:53,440 Speaker 1: think c w D is a much much bigger threat, 1309 01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:56,320 Speaker 1: partly because infect a deer can give it to another 1310 01:05:56,360 --> 01:05:59,760 Speaker 1: deer and infect them um in large part because there's 1311 01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:03,560 Speaker 1: not a practical live animal test yet. So because of that, 1312 01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:06,360 Speaker 1: we move deer every single day that can unknowingly have 1313 01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:08,840 Speaker 1: a disease to to the new facilities and then to 1314 01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:11,960 Speaker 1: new states, which is which is a terrible thing. And 1315 01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:14,280 Speaker 1: if you take a look across the US, it's hard 1316 01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:17,120 Speaker 1: to keep up with an expanding c w D map anymore. 1317 01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:19,840 Speaker 1: It seems like every day there's a new state or 1318 01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:22,240 Speaker 1: a new area within the state, or a new township, 1319 01:06:22,360 --> 01:06:25,320 Speaker 1: and it's just it's a nightmare for hunters and for 1320 01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:29,120 Speaker 1: walife agencies, and uh, I think the battle just continues 1321 01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:33,040 Speaker 1: to get worse as walife agencies and the deer farmers 1322 01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:36,240 Speaker 1: argue over this um. We certainly are not in a 1323 01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:38,400 Speaker 1: better place now that we're five or ten years ago 1324 01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:41,080 Speaker 1: with it. And I think that there's some pretty tough 1325 01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:46,360 Speaker 1: times ahead with regard to agency regulations, hunter desires, and 1326 01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:49,920 Speaker 1: arguments across the agencies with regard to to what we're 1327 01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:52,560 Speaker 1: doing with captive deer versus free ranging deer. But but 1328 01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:54,800 Speaker 1: there's no doubt I definitely see that as one of 1329 01:06:54,840 --> 01:06:57,000 Speaker 1: the biggest threats to the future of of our free 1330 01:06:57,080 --> 01:07:00,600 Speaker 1: ranging deer and our hunting heritage. So there's been a 1331 01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:04,080 Speaker 1: lot of news when it comes to new positives across 1332 01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:05,880 Speaker 1: the country. Do you have it? Can you give us 1333 01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:09,280 Speaker 1: a handful of those new places where CTB has been 1334 01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:13,200 Speaker 1: found for the first time or increasingly, um, where have 1335 01:07:13,240 --> 01:07:16,680 Speaker 1: we've seen some some changes there? Sure A two thousand 1336 01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:19,480 Speaker 1: and sixteen was big from for the first time we 1337 01:07:19,560 --> 01:07:22,240 Speaker 1: had it in the southeast. It had never been in 1338 01:07:22,280 --> 01:07:26,320 Speaker 1: the southeastern state Arkansas. Shows up in Arkansas and they say, okay, 1339 01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:28,680 Speaker 1: we have one here, must be something brand new. Well 1340 01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:31,800 Speaker 1: they quickly started sample and realized, oh my gosh, this 1341 01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:34,920 Speaker 1: is way more widespread than we thought. So it literally 1342 01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:36,760 Speaker 1: went in Arkansas from being the first day in the 1343 01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:39,760 Speaker 1: Southeast to confirm it to thinking, yeah, this is a 1344 01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:42,640 Speaker 1: recent incident to them realize, you know what, this most 1345 01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:45,560 Speaker 1: likely has been here for at least a decade. So 1346 01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:48,200 Speaker 1: that's that's a big difference if a dissease just shows 1347 01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:50,400 Speaker 1: up versus you had it for that long. Um, so 1348 01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:52,560 Speaker 1: that was very big. You end up with in Texas 1349 01:07:52,600 --> 01:07:56,160 Speaker 1: and captive deer they had not seen it in captive facilities. 1350 01:07:56,280 --> 01:07:59,560 Speaker 1: They confirmed it there now, which is huge. You end 1351 01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:02,600 Speaker 1: up with an new area in Pennsylvania which is huge, 1352 01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:05,160 Speaker 1: and then in most places that had it continues to 1353 01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:08,800 Speaker 1: just expand. You end up with more research showing that 1354 01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:14,280 Speaker 1: the deer populations are now actually declining because of the disease. Um, 1355 01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:16,320 Speaker 1: none of those are good for for what you and 1356 01:08:16,360 --> 01:08:18,920 Speaker 1: I love to do. Mark, Yeah, so well, can do you? 1357 01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:22,040 Speaker 1: Can you specify or excuse me, I can't talk. Can 1358 01:08:22,080 --> 01:08:25,080 Speaker 1: you elaborate on that study that came out of Wyoming? 1359 01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:27,759 Speaker 1: And I think that you're referring to there that spoke 1360 01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:30,800 Speaker 1: to some long term research that showed in these areas 1361 01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:33,479 Speaker 1: where there has been CWD for a long time, we're 1362 01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:38,519 Speaker 1: now seeing quantifiable, long term reductions and dear population, um, 1363 01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:41,960 Speaker 1: is that something you can speak to? Sure? You know, 1364 01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:44,760 Speaker 1: that's one of the first places I identified. And one 1365 01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:47,200 Speaker 1: of the things about c w D that the disease 1366 01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:49,200 Speaker 1: experts have been warning about. It said, look, you know, 1367 01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:51,240 Speaker 1: this is not something that comes in for a year 1368 01:08:51,280 --> 01:08:54,160 Speaker 1: or two and you just see massive die offs. It's 1369 01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:58,280 Speaker 1: something that just builds itself within the population continues expanding 1370 01:08:58,280 --> 01:09:00,799 Speaker 1: and expanding to a point where all of a sudden, 1371 01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:04,120 Speaker 1: now you start seeing these declines. You know, there's no 1372 01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:06,640 Speaker 1: vaccine for c w D, there's no cure. You know, 1373 01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:08,960 Speaker 1: it's a hundred percent fatal, so that you know that's 1374 01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:11,240 Speaker 1: never good for deer. And while we're seeing for the 1375 01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:14,920 Speaker 1: first time now these long term impacts of the disease 1376 01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:18,560 Speaker 1: being in that Wyoming herd where you know, the attributing 1377 01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:23,839 Speaker 1: to up to fourteen percent mortality annually just from the disease. 1378 01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:26,960 Speaker 1: You know, that's not including what gets hit with a 1379 01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:29,400 Speaker 1: car or shot with a rifle or whatever. So just 1380 01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:31,599 Speaker 1: think about in any state you know where you hunter 1381 01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:34,240 Speaker 1: want to go hunting, if all of a sudden, fourteen 1382 01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:36,240 Speaker 1: percent of the deer this year are dead because of it, 1383 01:09:36,760 --> 01:09:39,519 Speaker 1: fourteen percent at least next year are dead because of it. 1384 01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:44,400 Speaker 1: Suddenly hunting opportunities are becoming really reduced. And uh, you 1385 01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:47,120 Speaker 1: know Wisconsin's had at the longest in the East. And 1386 01:09:47,160 --> 01:09:49,400 Speaker 1: you can talk to people from Wisconsin and we have 1387 01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:51,760 Speaker 1: you know, a qd m A that have told le was, Look, 1388 01:09:51,800 --> 01:09:54,320 Speaker 1: you know, I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. 1389 01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:57,200 Speaker 1: You know, this is just so bad in my area. 1390 01:09:57,200 --> 01:09:59,360 Speaker 1: You know, every day we kill now or almost every 1391 01:09:59,400 --> 01:10:02,960 Speaker 1: deer has disease. You know, we're not seeing older bucks anymore. 1392 01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:05,920 Speaker 1: It's a sad thing. And if actually, if you take 1393 01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:08,760 Speaker 1: a look at the national age structure data for the 1394 01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:12,200 Speaker 1: last two years, Wisconsin has led the country and harvest 1395 01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:14,919 Speaker 1: of healing bucks. You know, when you think of Wisconsin. 1396 01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:17,519 Speaker 1: Everybody thinks the Buffalo County in these great big deer, Well, 1397 01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:20,080 Speaker 1: they're trending the other way. And actually this past year 1398 01:10:20,479 --> 01:10:23,040 Speaker 1: they harvested the lowest percentage of bucks that were three 1399 01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:25,160 Speaker 1: and a half older than any state in the country. 1400 01:10:26,080 --> 01:10:28,200 Speaker 1: That's not a good trend for what you want from 1401 01:10:28,200 --> 01:10:32,720 Speaker 1: from a deer high end. No, so so here. The 1402 01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:36,640 Speaker 1: thing about c w D, from what I see is 1403 01:10:36,680 --> 01:10:40,320 Speaker 1: that there are these there's a lot of conflicting information 1404 01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:42,120 Speaker 1: out there that I think the average deer hunter is 1405 01:10:42,160 --> 01:10:45,559 Speaker 1: seeing today. That has got to be confusing, because there 1406 01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:47,519 Speaker 1: seems to be a lot of science coming out and 1407 01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:51,160 Speaker 1: a lot of biologists who are who are emphasizing things 1408 01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:53,320 Speaker 1: that you have here that make a lot of sense. 1409 01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:56,040 Speaker 1: But then I feel like there's some arms of the 1410 01:10:56,080 --> 01:11:00,200 Speaker 1: media and there's some people that are going out in 1411 01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:04,759 Speaker 1: going and having seminars or publishing articles or writing online 1412 01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:07,479 Speaker 1: that are some saying something very different, and they're saying 1413 01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:11,040 Speaker 1: that CWD is overblown, that it's some government conspiracy theory, 1414 01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:15,160 Speaker 1: or that's that wildlife agencies are overreacting tremendously, and that 1415 01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:18,120 Speaker 1: the the issues we're seeing in Wisconsin with deer hunting 1416 01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:21,679 Speaker 1: harvest and satisfaction everything. The reason why that's all bad 1417 01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:23,800 Speaker 1: now isn't because of c w D. It's because of 1418 01:11:23,840 --> 01:11:28,280 Speaker 1: the big bad agency that have overreacted and ruined deer hunting. Um. 1419 01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:31,120 Speaker 1: So you're seeing some of that kind of talk. Um, 1420 01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:34,719 Speaker 1: what do you make of that, Kip is is it? 1421 01:11:35,479 --> 01:11:37,680 Speaker 1: Why is this happening? Why are there some people that 1422 01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:39,439 Speaker 1: are saying this? And what do you think about what 1423 01:11:39,479 --> 01:11:44,200 Speaker 1: they're saying? Well? I think that there there is tremendous 1424 01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:46,880 Speaker 1: confusion about it, in large part because there's just so 1425 01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:50,040 Speaker 1: much about CWD that that we don't know. Um. You know, 1426 01:11:50,200 --> 01:11:52,240 Speaker 1: there's a paramount that we do, but there's way more 1427 01:11:52,280 --> 01:11:54,400 Speaker 1: that we don't. So because of that adds the room 1428 01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:56,840 Speaker 1: to argue either side of the issue. UM. As a 1429 01:11:56,840 --> 01:11:58,960 Speaker 1: wild like professional, I tend to be on the side 1430 01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:01,640 Speaker 1: of the vast major already of disease experts and what 1431 01:12:01,680 --> 01:12:04,519 Speaker 1: they say, what they predict. So, but there are certainly 1432 01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:07,360 Speaker 1: some wild lift managers on the other side of it, 1433 01:12:07,439 --> 01:12:11,400 Speaker 1: in some cases because of personal gain by other interests. 1434 01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:13,920 Speaker 1: In some cases because you know, they may truly believe 1435 01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:16,760 Speaker 1: that the you know, the gray area of c w 1436 01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:19,559 Speaker 1: D is just not that big of a deal. Um, 1437 01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:21,320 Speaker 1: you can always play the odds. And you know, in 1438 01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:24,600 Speaker 1: anybody who takes a look at what we do know 1439 01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:27,479 Speaker 1: about it, um, you know it's not good. And I 1440 01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:30,880 Speaker 1: think that we've seen a lot today published in writing 1441 01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:33,519 Speaker 1: and on TV and in public events. You know that 1442 01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:36,160 Speaker 1: it really does a disservice to to what we do 1443 01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:38,920 Speaker 1: know about the disease. And and I think that's a 1444 01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:41,559 Speaker 1: very bad thing. And particularly some very influential people who 1445 01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:44,160 Speaker 1: are who are tremendous educators, you know, that are respected 1446 01:12:44,200 --> 01:12:45,960 Speaker 1: and valued by deer hunters that I think you know, 1447 01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:48,240 Speaker 1: they're they're not telling them the whole story, or they're 1448 01:12:48,280 --> 01:12:51,040 Speaker 1: they're telling them a skewed version of it. And I 1449 01:12:51,080 --> 01:12:54,080 Speaker 1: don't think that's very good at all. Yeah, I felt 1450 01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:56,760 Speaker 1: the same way. So could you could you give us 1451 01:12:57,120 --> 01:13:02,559 Speaker 1: as best as possible from what the most verified and 1452 01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:08,000 Speaker 1: reliable science and research has shown. What are a few 1453 01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:09,920 Speaker 1: of the things we can say that we do know 1454 01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:13,080 Speaker 1: about cw D and that we do know about proper 1455 01:13:13,120 --> 01:13:15,360 Speaker 1: reaction to it? Is there handful things that you can 1456 01:13:15,400 --> 01:13:18,559 Speaker 1: tell us that you know, we can safely assume this 1457 01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:20,960 Speaker 1: is true and this we can at least stand by this, 1458 01:13:21,400 --> 01:13:23,360 Speaker 1: And yes, there's still lots of grayer. But this is 1459 01:13:23,400 --> 01:13:28,000 Speaker 1: what we do know. Sure, we know that that it's 1460 01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:31,360 Speaker 1: fatal the deer. We know that deer can pass the 1461 01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:34,920 Speaker 1: infectious materials. Is that they have to other deer through 1462 01:13:35,160 --> 01:13:40,439 Speaker 1: urine or feces um, saliva, blood for for other deer 1463 01:13:40,479 --> 01:13:42,920 Speaker 1: to to pick up the disease and get it. We 1464 01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:45,840 Speaker 1: don't know exactly how much other material has to be 1465 01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:47,800 Speaker 1: shared before another deer gets it, but we know that 1466 01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:52,280 Speaker 1: dear definitely can deposit those infectious materials in those bodily 1467 01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:55,519 Speaker 1: fluids for other deer to get. Um, we know for 1468 01:13:55,640 --> 01:13:58,400 Speaker 1: sure that once they get they're going to die, but 1469 01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:01,880 Speaker 1: it maybe a few months to a few years, you know. 1470 01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:04,080 Speaker 1: And and that's part of the problem was if they 1471 01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:06,680 Speaker 1: got it and died immediately, they'd be off the landscape 1472 01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:09,400 Speaker 1: and hopefully not spreading it to as many other deer. 1473 01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:12,719 Speaker 1: But the fact that they can look completely normal and 1474 01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:16,240 Speaker 1: shed those materials for months or years and let other 1475 01:14:16,280 --> 01:14:19,479 Speaker 1: deer get it is you know, a real hindrance to 1476 01:14:19,479 --> 01:14:22,559 Speaker 1: to manage the deer. So so we know those things 1477 01:14:22,640 --> 01:14:25,080 Speaker 1: for sure. Um, some of the stuff that makes it 1478 01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:27,519 Speaker 1: difficult is, as I just said, they can have it 1479 01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:30,559 Speaker 1: for a while, without showing symptoms. UM. There is not 1480 01:14:30,840 --> 01:14:34,080 Speaker 1: a practical live animal test to test for it, and 1481 01:14:34,160 --> 01:14:37,840 Speaker 1: that is probably the biggest hindrance. UM. There is a 1482 01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:42,080 Speaker 1: console test as well as a rectal of myopsy tests 1483 01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:45,519 Speaker 1: that are both live animal tests. The problem with those 1484 01:14:45,680 --> 01:14:48,040 Speaker 1: is UM. You know, they may work on deer, they 1485 01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:50,439 Speaker 1: don't work really well on elk. And the one that's 1486 01:14:50,479 --> 01:14:52,880 Speaker 1: being touted is the most useful right now. That rectal 1487 01:14:52,920 --> 01:14:57,800 Speaker 1: biopsy UM does a pretty good job detecting it if 1488 01:14:57,840 --> 01:14:59,639 Speaker 1: a deer has had the disease for quite a while, 1489 01:15:00,320 --> 01:15:03,000 Speaker 1: but in the early stages it misses almost all of them, 1490 01:15:03,320 --> 01:15:06,240 Speaker 1: so so it's not practical for use. It's certainly not 1491 01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:09,200 Speaker 1: a reliable test. If we did have a reliable test, 1492 01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:11,479 Speaker 1: that would make it a lot better, because it's you know, 1493 01:15:11,680 --> 01:15:14,920 Speaker 1: it's crazy the number of captive deer that are moved 1494 01:15:15,560 --> 01:15:18,720 Speaker 1: every day, you know that certainly, And it's not it's 1495 01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:20,280 Speaker 1: like people in the industry or bad you know, they 1496 01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:22,799 Speaker 1: don't want to have c w D in a facility 1497 01:15:22,880 --> 01:15:25,360 Speaker 1: or spread it to another one either. But you know, 1498 01:15:25,439 --> 01:15:28,479 Speaker 1: if you can unknowingly move these deer, that is that's 1499 01:15:28,479 --> 01:15:30,679 Speaker 1: a big threat, you know, to to to our free 1500 01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:33,200 Speaker 1: range and deer, so or if we could have at 1501 01:15:33,320 --> 01:15:37,240 Speaker 1: or a live animal test that would help them a lot. So. 1502 01:15:37,240 --> 01:15:39,639 Speaker 1: So in addition to something like that, you know, improving 1503 01:15:39,680 --> 01:15:45,479 Speaker 1: testing and things. What types of reactionary measures do you 1504 01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:49,720 Speaker 1: think or can we safely say, seem to be UM 1505 01:15:49,920 --> 01:15:56,000 Speaker 1: recommended or UM either necessarily or excuse me, either necessary 1506 01:15:56,120 --> 01:15:58,240 Speaker 1: or recommended. I guess as far as okay, we we 1507 01:15:58,320 --> 01:16:01,479 Speaker 1: have CWD somewhere or we're trying to prevent c w 1508 01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:04,000 Speaker 1: D from getting somewhere, what types of steps have we 1509 01:16:04,080 --> 01:16:08,360 Speaker 1: found to be effective in managing it um or could 1510 01:16:08,360 --> 01:16:11,320 Speaker 1: be effective? I suppose. I think the one thing that 1511 01:16:11,479 --> 01:16:14,080 Speaker 1: is has shown to be good is when c w 1512 01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:17,840 Speaker 1: D shows up in a new area, UM testing a 1513 01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:20,800 Speaker 1: bunch of deer right in that immediate area, so that 1514 01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:24,000 Speaker 1: our agencies can get a good feel for prevalence of 1515 01:16:24,040 --> 01:16:27,920 Speaker 1: the disease and likely how much it has spread already. 1516 01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:31,160 Speaker 1: Because once, if if you find it when it first arrives, 1517 01:16:31,439 --> 01:16:33,760 Speaker 1: you have a chance to get rid of it. UM. 1518 01:16:33,800 --> 01:16:36,040 Speaker 1: So I do believe that when you find a new area, 1519 01:16:36,120 --> 01:16:38,080 Speaker 1: it is very good to test a bunch of deer 1520 01:16:38,200 --> 01:16:40,280 Speaker 1: right in there. They're exactly like you guys did in 1521 01:16:40,360 --> 01:16:44,960 Speaker 1: Michigan exactly like what they're doing in Minnesota right now. Um, 1522 01:16:45,040 --> 01:16:48,320 Speaker 1: once it has spread through an area, UM, there's nothing 1523 01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:51,200 Speaker 1: that we know of right now to eradicate it. So 1524 01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:53,680 Speaker 1: I think once you have just determined okay, this is 1525 01:16:53,720 --> 01:16:56,320 Speaker 1: not a new thing, it is here that spread, it 1526 01:16:56,439 --> 01:16:58,280 Speaker 1: is very good to know. We're like, okay, how far 1527 01:16:58,360 --> 01:17:00,200 Speaker 1: has a spread or what do we have here? But 1528 01:17:00,240 --> 01:17:02,280 Speaker 1: at that point, I think the game changes a little 1529 01:17:02,320 --> 01:17:05,320 Speaker 1: bit and that since we can eradicate it, the worst 1530 01:17:05,320 --> 01:17:08,719 Speaker 1: thing we can do is alienate hunters and lose their support. 1531 01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:11,320 Speaker 1: And the best way to do that is to say, hey, 1532 01:17:11,320 --> 01:17:13,439 Speaker 1: we're gonna kill every deer here and be done with it. 1533 01:17:13,520 --> 01:17:16,360 Speaker 1: And and obviously that doesn't work, and nobody wants to 1534 01:17:16,400 --> 01:17:18,880 Speaker 1: see that. UM. I think a perfect example of a 1535 01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:22,280 Speaker 1: good working relationship has occurred in Michigan when it showed 1536 01:17:22,360 --> 01:17:24,800 Speaker 1: up because the agency has done such a good job 1537 01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:28,519 Speaker 1: over the last decade or so of mending relationships with 1538 01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:31,519 Speaker 1: hunters and wanting to be good partners with our q 1539 01:17:31,640 --> 01:17:34,400 Speaker 1: d m A branches with all of these QTUM co ops, 1540 01:17:34,800 --> 01:17:38,080 Speaker 1: so they trust the d NR. There at least many 1541 01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:40,479 Speaker 1: of the DOW biologists for the people they work with 1542 01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:44,200 Speaker 1: so it was a really nice thing to see. How okay, 1543 01:17:44,240 --> 01:17:46,720 Speaker 1: yea have it here. The agency reaches out to these 1544 01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:48,599 Speaker 1: different groups and we need support, we need to test 1545 01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:50,479 Speaker 1: these deal we need to do this. They did it 1546 01:17:50,560 --> 01:17:53,320 Speaker 1: very quickly, very efficiently, and it has worked very well 1547 01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:56,040 Speaker 1: and where it is in your free engineer hurt. So 1548 01:17:56,439 --> 01:17:58,280 Speaker 1: because of that, I think that you have to have 1549 01:17:58,400 --> 01:18:01,040 Speaker 1: that working relationship with the not work as if the 1550 01:18:01,080 --> 01:18:03,400 Speaker 1: agency just says, hey, this is what we're gonna do 1551 01:18:03,600 --> 01:18:06,000 Speaker 1: and you have no say in it. Because of reality vision, 1552 01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:08,280 Speaker 1: most deer on private land and they can't just go 1553 01:18:08,320 --> 01:18:11,160 Speaker 1: on to private land to kill these deer, so they 1554 01:18:11,240 --> 01:18:14,800 Speaker 1: have to maintain that good relationship. In many cases, you know, 1555 01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:18,720 Speaker 1: hunters want some older bucks to be able to photograph 1556 01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:22,000 Speaker 1: and hunt and pursue. So if an agency says we're 1557 01:18:22,040 --> 01:18:24,200 Speaker 1: going to get rid of all the deer or all 1558 01:18:24,240 --> 01:18:26,439 Speaker 1: the older bucks, well then hunters don't want to hear 1559 01:18:26,479 --> 01:18:29,120 Speaker 1: that and they're no longer part of the solution. So 1560 01:18:29,680 --> 01:18:32,000 Speaker 1: I think that once you find its established, it's much 1561 01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:35,760 Speaker 1: better to keep hunters engaged so that they continue to 1562 01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:38,719 Speaker 1: harvest an all this deer and so that they can 1563 01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:41,559 Speaker 1: keep with the program to keep being part of the solution. 1564 01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:43,960 Speaker 1: And if that takes a few older bucks out there 1565 01:18:44,560 --> 01:18:47,000 Speaker 1: to make sure that they want to continue, then I 1566 01:18:47,040 --> 01:18:48,920 Speaker 1: think that's a very good thing. It's much better to 1567 01:18:49,000 --> 01:18:51,760 Speaker 1: have those older bucks to keep hunters engaged, I think, 1568 01:18:51,840 --> 01:18:54,320 Speaker 1: than to try to remove all the bucks and lose 1569 01:18:54,360 --> 01:18:57,920 Speaker 1: support from hunters. That makes sense. I think to what 1570 01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:01,240 Speaker 1: we talked about earlier, that that necessary collaboration between hunter 1571 01:19:01,280 --> 01:19:04,639 Speaker 1: and agency. UM. It makes sense you need to keep 1572 01:19:04,680 --> 01:19:08,920 Speaker 1: that that relationship there by not alienating alienating them with 1573 01:19:08,960 --> 01:19:13,040 Speaker 1: some of these UM possible regular management decisions, while at 1574 01:19:13,080 --> 01:19:15,320 Speaker 1: the same time trying to make the proper management decisions 1575 01:19:15,680 --> 01:19:17,960 Speaker 1: UM for the long term future. It's that balancing act 1576 01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:20,559 Speaker 1: that seems to be the challenge UM. But it makes 1577 01:19:20,560 --> 01:19:24,360 Speaker 1: a lot of sense. You alluded a little bit ago 1578 01:19:24,520 --> 01:19:28,000 Speaker 1: to some of the things related to the captive deer 1579 01:19:28,880 --> 01:19:31,800 Speaker 1: and possible transmission of c w D. There is there 1580 01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:34,639 Speaker 1: anything new when it comes to what the research has 1581 01:19:34,680 --> 01:19:38,559 Speaker 1: shown as far as to what degree the captive deer 1582 01:19:39,280 --> 01:19:42,200 Speaker 1: industry or captive deer facilities have when it comes to 1583 01:19:42,280 --> 01:19:45,320 Speaker 1: transmitting c w D across state lines or from captive 1584 01:19:45,439 --> 01:19:47,800 Speaker 1: to wild deer. Is there anything new on that front? 1585 01:19:48,080 --> 01:19:49,920 Speaker 1: And then number two, is there anything new when it 1586 01:19:49,960 --> 01:19:55,720 Speaker 1: comes to how that is being regulated um or managed? Well, UM, 1587 01:19:55,760 --> 01:19:58,280 Speaker 1: I don't think there's anything new on the front of 1588 01:19:58,320 --> 01:20:01,560 Speaker 1: the threat of captive deer and spread in the disease. UM. 1589 01:20:01,600 --> 01:20:05,160 Speaker 1: I'm in many cases less concerned about them spreading it 1590 01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:08,880 Speaker 1: to wild deer right around the facility through the fence 1591 01:20:08,960 --> 01:20:10,960 Speaker 1: as I am about spreading it to wild deer on 1592 01:20:11,040 --> 01:20:14,360 Speaker 1: the facility through escapes from the facility. But even more 1593 01:20:14,400 --> 01:20:17,720 Speaker 1: apart from just movement from one facility to another, you know, 1594 01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:21,520 Speaker 1: by by deer on a trailer or a truck. Um. 1595 01:20:21,560 --> 01:20:23,400 Speaker 1: If you take a look at how CTVIG is spread 1596 01:20:23,400 --> 01:20:25,479 Speaker 1: across the US, you know there's no way that this 1597 01:20:25,560 --> 01:20:27,840 Speaker 1: has happened just by random movement of the disease. You know know, 1598 01:20:27,960 --> 01:20:31,120 Speaker 1: it's been trucked and into most new places, and that's 1599 01:20:31,160 --> 01:20:34,880 Speaker 1: either being trucked by a live deer or buy a 1600 01:20:34,920 --> 01:20:37,559 Speaker 1: dead deer just harvest, you know, the carcass and movement 1601 01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:39,519 Speaker 1: where you're not supposed to it. You know, as hunters 1602 01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:41,720 Speaker 1: were our own worst enemies with that. You know, I 1603 01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:44,719 Speaker 1: know people who move deer illegally once if they've regally 1604 01:20:44,760 --> 01:20:47,080 Speaker 1: harvested the deer and then they end up bringing you know, 1605 01:20:47,120 --> 01:20:49,160 Speaker 1: the eyes and the brain back with the skull or 1606 01:20:49,200 --> 01:20:51,200 Speaker 1: you know, they will clean up properly or whatever. And 1607 01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:53,680 Speaker 1: so I think the science is pretty clear that the 1608 01:20:53,680 --> 01:20:57,840 Speaker 1: most likely way that the disease can move is live 1609 01:20:57,880 --> 01:21:01,400 Speaker 1: deer moving to new facility. And you probably the second 1610 01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:03,960 Speaker 1: easiest way to move it is, you know, by legal 1611 01:21:03,960 --> 01:21:06,320 Speaker 1: harvest of deer, but then moving parts that you're not 1612 01:21:06,360 --> 01:21:10,360 Speaker 1: supposed to eyes, the brain, the spleen, you know, server 1613 01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:14,880 Speaker 1: or the backbone, that kind of thing. So certainly, from 1614 01:21:14,880 --> 01:21:16,640 Speaker 1: the captive end, I think that you know, if we 1615 01:21:16,680 --> 01:21:19,679 Speaker 1: could stop all the movement of live deer, we would help. 1616 01:21:20,040 --> 01:21:21,960 Speaker 1: And from the hunter end, you know, if we didn't 1617 01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:25,000 Speaker 1: do ourselves such harm then move stuff ourselves, we could 1618 01:21:25,040 --> 01:21:28,200 Speaker 1: help a bunch as well. Yeah, yeah, I think on 1619 01:21:28,200 --> 01:21:30,200 Speaker 1: that ladder. And that's one piece that I feel like 1620 01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:33,479 Speaker 1: a lot of people still don't know about. I just 1621 01:21:33,600 --> 01:21:37,000 Speaker 1: when I'm just kind of sampling acquaintances and things like, 1622 01:21:37,200 --> 01:21:40,320 Speaker 1: did you know that you can't in many states, you 1623 01:21:40,360 --> 01:21:43,640 Speaker 1: can't you know, shoot a deer, let's say in Iowa 1624 01:21:43,880 --> 01:21:46,320 Speaker 1: where there might be a CWD positive state, or any 1625 01:21:46,360 --> 01:21:48,760 Speaker 1: state like that, and then shoot that deer throw in 1626 01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:51,960 Speaker 1: the back of your truck and bring it back into Michigan. Um. 1627 01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:54,680 Speaker 1: That's illegal. UM. I think a lot of people do 1628 01:21:54,720 --> 01:21:59,920 Speaker 1: that not realizing it because these regulations aren't too terribly public. 1629 01:22:00,080 --> 01:22:02,280 Speaker 1: They're they're in the books or they're on the website, 1630 01:22:02,320 --> 01:22:04,120 Speaker 1: but I'm not sure a lot of people realize that. 1631 01:22:04,120 --> 01:22:06,240 Speaker 1: In many cases, like like you mentioned, Kip, you need 1632 01:22:06,280 --> 01:22:09,320 Speaker 1: to You can bring the meat, you can bring the hide, 1633 01:22:09,439 --> 01:22:11,280 Speaker 1: you can bring the skull caps, you can bring the 1634 01:22:11,320 --> 01:22:13,600 Speaker 1: antlers with everything scraped off of. But you can't just 1635 01:22:13,600 --> 01:22:15,840 Speaker 1: bring a whole head with a brain and all that 1636 01:22:15,880 --> 01:22:17,720 Speaker 1: other stuff in there. And that's one of those things 1637 01:22:17,760 --> 01:22:20,439 Speaker 1: I think needs to be more publicized and made known 1638 01:22:20,479 --> 01:22:22,680 Speaker 1: to hunters because I think a lot of people are 1639 01:22:22,720 --> 01:22:26,200 Speaker 1: doing this not intentionally, not intentionally trying to aid in 1640 01:22:26,200 --> 01:22:29,759 Speaker 1: the spread of disease, not intentionally trying to break the law, 1641 01:22:30,200 --> 01:22:32,240 Speaker 1: but just never would have thought that that's an issue 1642 01:22:32,360 --> 01:22:36,240 Speaker 1: and never would have known. UM. I mean, we even 1643 01:22:36,240 --> 01:22:37,840 Speaker 1: did some service of the NDA that I think that 1644 01:22:37,960 --> 01:22:40,160 Speaker 1: showed a few a year or two ago that that 1645 01:22:40,240 --> 01:22:41,920 Speaker 1: maybe some people didn't know that. I mean, are you 1646 01:22:41,960 --> 01:22:44,040 Speaker 1: seeing that KIP is something that probably needs to be 1647 01:22:44,600 --> 01:22:49,840 Speaker 1: um more more publicized. Well, yes, the answer is yes. 1648 01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:52,120 Speaker 1: But I think a lot of it the publiciation or promotion, 1649 01:22:52,200 --> 01:22:55,280 Speaker 1: and it needs to be you know, among our own ranks. Um. 1650 01:22:55,320 --> 01:22:58,559 Speaker 1: Every state, while they just said, I'm aware of publishes 1651 01:22:58,600 --> 01:23:01,040 Speaker 1: that in the rules guide, and and they talk about 1652 01:23:01,040 --> 01:23:03,760 Speaker 1: it because they talk more. Sure they could, but never 1653 01:23:03,880 --> 01:23:06,120 Speaker 1: the least they are doing that. But you're right, man, 1654 01:23:06,160 --> 01:23:08,719 Speaker 1: the average hunter just does not you understand that, only 1655 01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:10,479 Speaker 1: that they haven't read it or think glad that won't 1656 01:23:10,479 --> 01:23:13,599 Speaker 1: apply to me. Um. So yes, I think as hunters 1657 01:23:13,640 --> 01:23:15,160 Speaker 1: we definitely need to talk to you know, the other 1658 01:23:15,240 --> 01:23:18,000 Speaker 1: hunters in our camps and then we hunt with them, 1659 01:23:18,040 --> 01:23:20,240 Speaker 1: just let them know you know about this. Um. I 1660 01:23:20,240 --> 01:23:22,599 Speaker 1: think part of it is just in a large part, 1661 01:23:23,160 --> 01:23:25,640 Speaker 1: just don't just don't care enough to think this is 1662 01:23:25,640 --> 01:23:28,080 Speaker 1: not going to matter to me, or they see you know, 1663 01:23:28,560 --> 01:23:31,120 Speaker 1: somebody on TV saying, see everybody's not that bad, so 1664 01:23:31,160 --> 01:23:34,400 Speaker 1: they figure out I'm not gonna worry about it. Well, um, 1665 01:23:34,439 --> 01:23:36,920 Speaker 1: I think you know, could the agencies do more? They 1666 01:23:36,960 --> 01:23:40,080 Speaker 1: certainly could, But I think in in large part that 1667 01:23:40,160 --> 01:23:42,280 Speaker 1: we need to put the onus on ourselves as hunters 1668 01:23:42,760 --> 01:23:45,000 Speaker 1: to make sure that we're not negatively impact in our 1669 01:23:45,040 --> 01:23:47,720 Speaker 1: own future. Yeah. Yeah, and and and what I was 1670 01:23:47,760 --> 01:23:50,880 Speaker 1: saying was to that latter point. I think it's something 1671 01:23:50,920 --> 01:23:53,519 Speaker 1: that just within the hunting community hasn't been discussed enough. 1672 01:23:53,600 --> 01:23:55,960 Speaker 1: So so I agree with you on that front. And 1673 01:23:55,960 --> 01:23:57,680 Speaker 1: and I guess hopefully we're going to inform a few 1674 01:23:57,680 --> 01:24:01,240 Speaker 1: people here today because because yeah, it's something that just 1675 01:24:01,280 --> 01:24:03,080 Speaker 1: some surprise, there's not a lot of people that realize it, 1676 01:24:03,080 --> 01:24:04,840 Speaker 1: and it can be a hassle. You know, you shoot 1677 01:24:04,840 --> 01:24:08,120 Speaker 1: a deer and now you need to you know, keep 1678 01:24:08,160 --> 01:24:10,080 Speaker 1: it out yourself, or skin it out and deal with 1679 01:24:10,120 --> 01:24:11,640 Speaker 1: it or process it, or now you need to go 1680 01:24:11,680 --> 01:24:14,280 Speaker 1: to a taxidermists in that state. Um. But some of 1681 01:24:14,320 --> 01:24:19,360 Speaker 1: these things, like you said, they have bigger picture implications that, 1682 01:24:19,439 --> 01:24:22,800 Speaker 1: while inconvenient, make a difference. And we owe it to 1683 01:24:22,840 --> 01:24:25,759 Speaker 1: ourselves as hunters into the future of this hunting lifestyle 1684 01:24:25,840 --> 01:24:27,479 Speaker 1: to to try to take every step so we keenda 1685 01:24:27,720 --> 01:24:33,960 Speaker 1: to minimize that potential risk. So that's that's right. I agree. So, Kip, 1686 01:24:34,160 --> 01:24:35,960 Speaker 1: we talked about disease, We talked a little bout some 1687 01:24:35,960 --> 01:24:42,519 Speaker 1: of these habitat things. UM. Looking forward, is there what 1688 01:24:42,600 --> 01:24:44,960 Speaker 1: are there any things that concern you or any major 1689 01:24:45,240 --> 01:24:48,760 Speaker 1: issues or upcoming things coming down the pipeline that that 1690 01:24:48,840 --> 01:24:51,160 Speaker 1: we need to be aware of. Um, when it comes 1691 01:24:51,200 --> 01:24:53,040 Speaker 1: to the future of deer and deer hunting that we 1692 01:24:53,080 --> 01:24:56,240 Speaker 1: haven't talked about yet. I think one of the biggest 1693 01:24:56,280 --> 01:25:00,600 Speaker 1: things is we need to have a bigger discussion and 1694 01:25:01,240 --> 01:25:03,760 Speaker 1: on this whole disease thing. And the reason might say 1695 01:25:03,840 --> 01:25:06,200 Speaker 1: that is we started early in this conversation, so we'll 1696 01:25:06,200 --> 01:25:08,439 Speaker 1: bring us full circle here, you know, talking about the 1697 01:25:08,479 --> 01:25:10,880 Speaker 1: age structure of the harvest and how hunters have shown 1698 01:25:10,880 --> 01:25:13,439 Speaker 1: their willingness to pass here to get them to that 1699 01:25:13,560 --> 01:25:15,880 Speaker 1: at least three and a half year old age class. 1700 01:25:15,880 --> 01:25:19,520 Speaker 1: Well as c w D continues to spread, some agencies 1701 01:25:20,200 --> 01:25:22,759 Speaker 1: take the tactic of okay, we're not going to allow 1702 01:25:22,760 --> 01:25:24,320 Speaker 1: a deer to get to these old age classes. We 1703 01:25:24,360 --> 01:25:26,920 Speaker 1: want the hunters to kill them young. In some cases 1704 01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:29,840 Speaker 1: they have removed antler restrictions to return the harvest of 1705 01:25:29,960 --> 01:25:34,240 Speaker 1: union bucks. In some cases are advocate average actively supporting 1706 01:25:34,320 --> 01:25:37,599 Speaker 1: hunters to to kill younger bucks. UM. So I think 1707 01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:39,519 Speaker 1: that we are at a crossroads where, you know, we 1708 01:25:39,640 --> 01:25:43,879 Speaker 1: have really good hunter agency relationships in many cases probably 1709 01:25:43,920 --> 01:25:47,200 Speaker 1: better than ever before. We have better age structure of bucks, 1710 01:25:47,240 --> 01:25:49,040 Speaker 1: and we probably have had and at least the last 1711 01:25:49,120 --> 01:25:51,759 Speaker 1: hundred years. So we have a lot of happy hunters 1712 01:25:52,120 --> 01:25:54,479 Speaker 1: that all of a sudden, this back next monkey wrench 1713 01:25:54,520 --> 01:25:57,639 Speaker 1: and this is okay, it's spreading c w D. Some 1714 01:25:58,280 --> 01:26:02,880 Speaker 1: agencies want younger bucks. So with hunters finally getting new 1715 01:26:02,880 --> 01:26:05,080 Speaker 1: part where they are and now being told now we 1716 01:26:05,120 --> 01:26:06,760 Speaker 1: want to go the other way, it's going to take 1717 01:26:06,800 --> 01:26:10,679 Speaker 1: a really good working relationship to navigate through. I think 1718 01:26:10,720 --> 01:26:15,080 Speaker 1: this next tangled mess. And so some agencies have said, no, 1719 01:26:15,120 --> 01:26:18,479 Speaker 1: we're not going to try to drive bucket ages younger. 1720 01:26:18,520 --> 01:26:20,519 Speaker 1: You know, we want the continued support of hunters and 1721 01:26:20,560 --> 01:26:22,720 Speaker 1: be part of this and harvest antalists here, um, but 1722 01:26:22,760 --> 01:26:24,479 Speaker 1: not all of something that have gone the other way. 1723 01:26:24,520 --> 01:26:27,080 Speaker 1: So I think that's the next big hurdle that we're 1724 01:26:27,080 --> 01:26:29,000 Speaker 1: gonna have to get over and know or not in 1725 01:26:29,000 --> 01:26:31,160 Speaker 1: necessarily over, but work our way through. And it's going 1726 01:26:31,200 --> 01:26:34,439 Speaker 1: to take, uh, you know, good relationships on both sides 1727 01:26:34,720 --> 01:26:36,880 Speaker 1: and a lot of trust on both sides, agencies and 1728 01:26:36,960 --> 01:26:39,120 Speaker 1: hunters UH to come out of the stronger at the 1729 01:26:39,120 --> 01:26:41,920 Speaker 1: other end. Now, is it safe to say that you 1730 01:26:41,960 --> 01:26:46,519 Speaker 1: would not recommend that that type of management decision based 1731 01:26:46,520 --> 01:26:48,479 Speaker 1: on what you said earlier about the importance of still 1732 01:26:48,520 --> 01:26:52,360 Speaker 1: trying to maintain some level of balanced age structure and 1733 01:26:52,560 --> 01:26:56,519 Speaker 1: the fact that that improves hunter satisfaction. Um, is that correct? 1734 01:26:56,560 --> 01:26:59,040 Speaker 1: Would you say that this idea to just really start 1735 01:26:59,120 --> 01:27:00,519 Speaker 1: targing to you're a half of Bucks to try and 1736 01:27:00,560 --> 01:27:04,240 Speaker 1: manage c w D maybe isn't the best idea. I 1737 01:27:04,280 --> 01:27:07,080 Speaker 1: think that when you first have c w D in 1738 01:27:07,080 --> 01:27:10,280 Speaker 1: an area, it is fine to target all deer, you know, 1739 01:27:10,400 --> 01:27:13,760 Speaker 1: Bucks or doos and if you established, hey this is 1740 01:27:13,840 --> 01:27:15,880 Speaker 1: brand new, let's get rid of them. I think it's 1741 01:27:15,880 --> 01:27:18,200 Speaker 1: absolutely the right thing to hit Bucks and do is 1742 01:27:18,280 --> 01:27:20,880 Speaker 1: hard to try to keep it from ever spreading out 1743 01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:24,080 Speaker 1: of there. However, once you determine now we're pretty well 1744 01:27:24,200 --> 01:27:27,519 Speaker 1: established here, then I absolutely think that it's better to 1745 01:27:27,880 --> 01:27:30,519 Speaker 1: have some over deer out there to keep hunters engaged 1746 01:27:30,600 --> 01:27:33,559 Speaker 1: in actively hunting. Okay, Yeah, that that that makes sense 1747 01:27:33,560 --> 01:27:36,320 Speaker 1: based on what you're saying earlier. Okay, So that's something 1748 01:27:36,320 --> 01:27:39,360 Speaker 1: that's concerning you. What's something that you're excited about when 1749 01:27:39,360 --> 01:27:42,000 Speaker 1: it comes to the future. I mean, what what silver 1750 01:27:42,120 --> 01:27:44,720 Speaker 1: lining do we have, What what kind of optimism do 1751 01:27:44,760 --> 01:27:47,280 Speaker 1: we have in store for the coming year or two review? 1752 01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:50,879 Speaker 1: One thing, one of the things is where we're starting 1753 01:27:50,920 --> 01:27:55,200 Speaker 1: to see, you know, a bunch of youth involved in 1754 01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:56,680 Speaker 1: and hunting, which is a good thing. You know, as 1755 01:27:56,720 --> 01:28:00,519 Speaker 1: we continue to have an aging hunter population, UM, agencies 1756 01:28:00,560 --> 01:28:02,800 Speaker 1: have really stepped up to try to put in some 1757 01:28:02,800 --> 01:28:05,679 Speaker 1: new programs to get youth involved. And so I see 1758 01:28:05,720 --> 01:28:07,600 Speaker 1: that as a very good thing because I think that 1759 01:28:07,720 --> 01:28:11,160 Speaker 1: the youth can correct a lot of problems. And I 1760 01:28:11,200 --> 01:28:13,160 Speaker 1: gave the example early on, you know, in our hunting 1761 01:28:13,200 --> 01:28:15,559 Speaker 1: camp where you know, it was really cool to have 1762 01:28:15,640 --> 01:28:18,360 Speaker 1: all those young kids there. UM. I think one of 1763 01:28:18,400 --> 01:28:21,120 Speaker 1: the things that as we start to get more used involved, 1764 01:28:21,240 --> 01:28:24,680 Speaker 1: the UTH numbers themselves are good for us, but I 1765 01:28:24,680 --> 01:28:29,040 Speaker 1: think at least an equally important thing is once socius 1766 01:28:29,040 --> 01:28:31,479 Speaker 1: are involved, you end up with a lot of aging 1767 01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:36,600 Speaker 1: hunters becoming more engaged again as mentors. And and we 1768 01:28:36,640 --> 01:28:39,120 Speaker 1: saw some of that right at our hunting camp last year, 1769 01:28:39,120 --> 01:28:41,400 Speaker 1: and I've seen this across the country where you know, 1770 01:28:41,439 --> 01:28:43,640 Speaker 1: a guy who's hunted most of his life and is 1771 01:28:43,640 --> 01:28:46,200 Speaker 1: getting older just doesn't hunt as much anymore. Sure he's 1772 01:28:46,240 --> 01:28:49,439 Speaker 1: still into it, but maybe not as much. Suddenly, as 1773 01:28:49,439 --> 01:28:52,000 Speaker 1: an opportunity to really pass some of that knowledge that 1774 01:28:52,040 --> 01:28:54,439 Speaker 1: he has onto a young boy, or a young girl, 1775 01:28:54,720 --> 01:28:57,559 Speaker 1: and I've seen people get really engaged again and just 1776 01:28:57,720 --> 01:29:00,640 Speaker 1: really excited about hunting. So I see that as one 1777 01:29:00,680 --> 01:29:03,960 Speaker 1: of the biggest break spots going forwards. We have these 1778 01:29:03,960 --> 01:29:06,880 Speaker 1: new youth coming in, but at least as as big 1779 01:29:06,880 --> 01:29:09,320 Speaker 1: as a deal is some re engagement of these older 1780 01:29:09,360 --> 01:29:12,880 Speaker 1: folks as mentors. UM. I like that a lot. Has 1781 01:29:12,920 --> 01:29:15,720 Speaker 1: there been any new data? I haven't seen this, so 1782 01:29:15,760 --> 01:29:18,200 Speaker 1: there probably isn't, but but maybe you know something I don't. 1783 01:29:18,520 --> 01:29:21,840 Speaker 1: Is there any new data when it comes to hunter Um? 1784 01:29:21,880 --> 01:29:24,840 Speaker 1: Oh gosh, what's the right word country recruitment? Anything new 1785 01:29:24,880 --> 01:29:26,760 Speaker 1: on that front or we're seeing you know, a few 1786 01:29:26,800 --> 01:29:28,479 Speaker 1: years ago we started talking about a little bit of 1787 01:29:28,520 --> 01:29:32,000 Speaker 1: an uptick there with more youth, more female hunters. Um. 1788 01:29:32,120 --> 01:29:33,760 Speaker 1: Do we see anything new when it comes to that 1789 01:29:33,800 --> 01:29:36,960 Speaker 1: trend yet? I haven't seen the other data out of 1790 01:29:36,960 --> 01:29:40,000 Speaker 1: two thousand and sixteen, yet I do know that there's 1791 01:29:40,080 --> 01:29:42,639 Speaker 1: more programs for them kind of. They are three programs, 1792 01:29:42,640 --> 01:29:46,479 Speaker 1: you know, the recruit and UH and Reactivate and H 1793 01:29:46,560 --> 01:29:49,160 Speaker 1: and Kane Hunters. So you're seeing more of that from 1794 01:29:49,200 --> 01:29:51,400 Speaker 1: the States and UH and and we have a person 1795 01:29:51,840 --> 01:29:54,120 Speaker 1: from qdm A that sits on one of those committees 1796 01:29:54,120 --> 01:29:56,280 Speaker 1: and works actively, so you see a lot of programs 1797 01:29:56,280 --> 01:29:59,200 Speaker 1: to help that. Um, there's more opportunities for those kids 1798 01:29:59,240 --> 01:30:02,760 Speaker 1: party because as you know, we reduced more barriers. Each year, 1799 01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:05,040 Speaker 1: you end up with more states you know that either 1800 01:30:05,080 --> 01:30:08,879 Speaker 1: reduced the minimum major requirements or relax some of those requirements, 1801 01:30:09,000 --> 01:30:12,160 Speaker 1: or get kids involved. So I have not seen actual 1802 01:30:12,240 --> 01:30:14,519 Speaker 1: numbers from last year, but I do know that we're 1803 01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:17,559 Speaker 1: seeing more opportunities and more programs to help that. So 1804 01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:20,479 Speaker 1: hopefully that will indicate that we actually do have more 1805 01:30:20,520 --> 01:30:23,719 Speaker 1: kids getting involved in you know, and nobody ever talks 1806 01:30:23,720 --> 01:30:25,600 Speaker 1: about the other side of that mentor side that I 1807 01:30:25,640 --> 01:30:27,639 Speaker 1: did a minute ago, but I think that we should. 1808 01:30:27,920 --> 01:30:30,240 Speaker 1: I think that is extremely important and you know, and 1809 01:30:30,280 --> 01:30:32,840 Speaker 1: one that we can't overlook. Yeah, that's a great point 1810 01:30:32,840 --> 01:30:34,960 Speaker 1: and some once something I hadn't really thought about myself either, 1811 01:30:35,120 --> 01:30:39,040 Speaker 1: So it makes lot of sense. So, Kip, we've talked 1812 01:30:39,040 --> 01:30:41,720 Speaker 1: about the current situation of the deer hunting world. We 1813 01:30:41,800 --> 01:30:43,320 Speaker 1: talked a little bit about the future of the deer 1814 01:30:43,360 --> 01:30:46,720 Speaker 1: hunting world. What does the future of Kip Adam's deer 1815 01:30:46,760 --> 01:30:49,080 Speaker 1: hunting world look like for two thousand seventeen. Do you 1816 01:30:49,120 --> 01:30:52,240 Speaker 1: have anything you're particularly excited about on the farm, any 1817 01:30:52,479 --> 01:30:57,519 Speaker 1: any buck here after anything like that. Uh, I am 1818 01:30:57,560 --> 01:31:00,599 Speaker 1: always excited about deer season. And actually the past weekend, 1819 01:31:00,880 --> 01:31:02,760 Speaker 1: I have two young kids, a ten year old daughter 1820 01:31:02,760 --> 01:31:05,200 Speaker 1: and a seven year old son, so we were out 1821 01:31:05,640 --> 01:31:08,200 Speaker 1: on Saturday actively we were cutting some trees, doing some 1822 01:31:08,240 --> 01:31:11,559 Speaker 1: habitat work this winter to to increase our chances this 1823 01:31:11,640 --> 01:31:14,120 Speaker 1: fall of crossing paths with a with a buck or 1824 01:31:14,439 --> 01:31:17,519 Speaker 1: a door of our dreams. So I'll spend a bunch 1825 01:31:17,560 --> 01:31:20,360 Speaker 1: of time this winter and this summer with my kids 1826 01:31:20,360 --> 01:31:22,920 Speaker 1: and fluding habitat, which is always a good thing. We'll 1827 01:31:22,920 --> 01:31:25,200 Speaker 1: do a bunch of camera surveys to have a really 1828 01:31:25,240 --> 01:31:27,960 Speaker 1: good idea of what's out to this fall. Um. I 1829 01:31:28,000 --> 01:31:30,800 Speaker 1: will likely spend much, at least I hope so much 1830 01:31:30,800 --> 01:31:33,200 Speaker 1: of this fall um with my daughter or my son 1831 01:31:33,280 --> 01:31:35,559 Speaker 1: at my side. Um. They're both at the age where 1832 01:31:35,840 --> 01:31:38,240 Speaker 1: they want to go every day. I don't take them together. 1833 01:31:39,320 --> 01:31:41,920 Speaker 1: They're they're like a typical brother and sister where they 1834 01:31:41,920 --> 01:31:45,760 Speaker 1: spend a lot of time fighting each other. So it's 1835 01:31:45,920 --> 01:31:48,040 Speaker 1: rare that I go here on our phone without one 1836 01:31:48,080 --> 01:31:52,280 Speaker 1: of them. And uh so my personal opportunities decline something 1837 01:31:52,360 --> 01:31:55,000 Speaker 1: with them. But uh man, I wouldn't pass it for anything, 1838 01:31:55,040 --> 01:31:58,040 Speaker 1: and it's it's quality time with them and uh, I 1839 01:31:58,160 --> 01:31:59,880 Speaker 1: love every second on it. So I would guess my 1840 01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:02,599 Speaker 1: two thousand and seventeen season, Well, we're involved a lot 1841 01:32:02,680 --> 01:32:06,000 Speaker 1: with my kids and uh hopefully my daughter's first deer 1842 01:32:06,080 --> 01:32:09,559 Speaker 1: this fall, which will be tremendous, and then uh um, 1843 01:32:09,840 --> 01:32:11,639 Speaker 1: maybe some really good sits with my son as well. 1844 01:32:12,280 --> 01:32:16,959 Speaker 1: Very cool. That sounds awesome. What where can our listeners 1845 01:32:16,960 --> 01:32:19,120 Speaker 1: go if they found all of this intriguing and they 1846 01:32:19,160 --> 01:32:21,040 Speaker 1: want to learn more? Where where can they get the 1847 01:32:21,040 --> 01:32:24,160 Speaker 1: white Tail Report because that is available for everybody and um, 1848 01:32:24,240 --> 01:32:25,720 Speaker 1: and where can they learn more about what you're doing 1849 01:32:25,800 --> 01:32:28,920 Speaker 1: with the QUM? They can go to to q d 1850 01:32:29,080 --> 01:32:32,040 Speaker 1: M a dot com um and find a wealth of 1851 01:32:32,080 --> 01:32:35,880 Speaker 1: information on all aspects of deer or habitat management. They're 1852 01:32:36,200 --> 01:32:39,240 Speaker 1: all kinds of articles, et cetera at that site. UM. 1853 01:32:39,240 --> 01:32:42,439 Speaker 1: They can also download our white Tail Report for free. UM. 1854 01:32:42,479 --> 01:32:44,720 Speaker 1: They can purchase a hard copy if they want, but 1855 01:32:44,920 --> 01:32:47,240 Speaker 1: they can get a free download right from our website. 1856 01:32:47,439 --> 01:32:50,360 Speaker 1: And actually they can download every single white Tail Report 1857 01:32:50,520 --> 01:32:52,880 Speaker 1: back to two thousand and nine, just to see how 1858 01:32:52,920 --> 01:32:55,439 Speaker 1: trends have changed and what the big issues have been 1859 01:32:55,479 --> 01:32:58,519 Speaker 1: to change, but it's all free for the taking at 1860 01:32:58,600 --> 01:33:01,640 Speaker 1: QDMA dot com. Excellent. We'll make sure to include a 1861 01:33:01,680 --> 01:33:05,000 Speaker 1: link to that. Highly recommend you guys all listening download 1862 01:33:05,080 --> 01:33:07,680 Speaker 1: that report. Downloads on the past reports. Um, there's some 1863 01:33:07,760 --> 01:33:10,479 Speaker 1: really interesting stuff in there, and as Kip alluded to know, 1864 01:33:10,520 --> 01:33:13,040 Speaker 1: every year they cover some different issues too that are 1865 01:33:13,120 --> 01:33:15,880 Speaker 1: pertinent and interesting just as much now as they might 1866 01:33:15,920 --> 01:33:17,519 Speaker 1: have been last year or a few years ago when 1867 01:33:17,520 --> 01:33:20,280 Speaker 1: they originally wrote some of those pieces. So check those out. 1868 01:33:20,360 --> 01:33:24,439 Speaker 1: They're great free pdf downloads and uh highly recommend them. 1869 01:33:24,479 --> 01:33:26,320 Speaker 1: And Kip, thank you so much for coming on here 1870 01:33:26,360 --> 01:33:28,679 Speaker 1: again and joining us and sharing your wealth of information. 1871 01:33:29,880 --> 01:33:32,200 Speaker 1: I had great tap talking to you, MARKO. Have a 1872 01:33:32,200 --> 01:33:34,840 Speaker 1: good spring and certainly good luck to fall. Sounds good 1873 01:33:34,920 --> 01:33:38,920 Speaker 1: same to you. And that is at first today. A 1874 01:33:39,080 --> 01:33:42,599 Speaker 1: few quick updates though, before we go. First, if you're 1875 01:33:42,600 --> 01:33:46,120 Speaker 1: familiar with our other podcasts, the One Wild podcast, which 1876 01:33:46,160 --> 01:33:48,280 Speaker 1: I've partnered with Drew Outdoors on, you know that we 1877 01:33:48,360 --> 01:33:51,479 Speaker 1: answer listeners submitted questions on that show, and right now 1878 01:33:51,520 --> 01:33:53,759 Speaker 1: we're in need of some new questions to tackle related 1879 01:33:53,800 --> 01:33:56,679 Speaker 1: to offseason topics, you know, stuff that's relevant to what's 1880 01:33:56,680 --> 01:33:59,799 Speaker 1: happening right now things like habitat work and food plots 1881 01:34:00,120 --> 01:34:03,160 Speaker 1: or scouting or offseason tree stand work, all that kind 1882 01:34:03,200 --> 01:34:05,240 Speaker 1: of good stuff. We'd love to talk about that. So 1883 01:34:05,320 --> 01:34:08,439 Speaker 1: if you have a specific question on a topic related 1884 01:34:08,479 --> 01:34:10,559 Speaker 1: in some way to those kinds of things, you can 1885 01:34:10,600 --> 01:34:13,280 Speaker 1: submit those questions by going to wire to Hunt dot 1886 01:34:13,320 --> 01:34:17,320 Speaker 1: com slash one hundred percent wild and that's one hundred, 1887 01:34:17,360 --> 01:34:20,320 Speaker 1: the number one zero zero and then the words percent wild. 1888 01:34:20,520 --> 01:34:23,120 Speaker 1: So check that out. Send us your questions. We'd love 1889 01:34:23,160 --> 01:34:26,160 Speaker 1: to tackle them. Moving on, I do want to thank 1890 01:34:26,200 --> 01:34:29,080 Speaker 1: our partners. We have made this podcast possible, so big. 1891 01:34:29,160 --> 01:34:33,080 Speaker 1: Thank you to Sit to Gear, Yetie Coolers, Ozonics, Redneck Blinds, 1892 01:34:33,160 --> 01:34:36,879 Speaker 1: maybe an Optics, White Tailents to North America, Carbon Express 1893 01:34:36,960 --> 01:34:40,920 Speaker 1: and hunter ra Maps. And finally, thank you all so 1894 01:34:41,080 --> 01:34:43,160 Speaker 1: much for listening and for being a part of this community. 1895 01:34:43,680 --> 01:34:47,240 Speaker 1: I appreciate you, and I hope you'll stay Wired to 1896 01:34:47,360 --> 01:34:47,559 Speaker 1: Hunt