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Speaker 1: Likes to share. Now it's time to hear from my man,

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Speaker 1: Rashan McDonald money Making conver sections. Working the money making Conversation.

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Speaker 1: I'm back again, your host, Rashan McDonald. I always tell

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Speaker 1: people it's time to start reading other people's success stories.

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Speaker 1: I say that every time I start this show. It's

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Speaker 1: time you start doing your job and writing your own story.

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Speaker 1: And I always tell people leave with their gifts and

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Speaker 1: don't let their friends age, especially age, stop you from

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Speaker 1: playing your dreams or living your dreams. My INM interviewers

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Speaker 1: always include consumers, uh CEOs, entrepreneurs, and what I call

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Speaker 1: industry decision maker. My next guest, he's an interesting decision maker.

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Speaker 1: He's a celebrity because he's on TV every night. He's

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Speaker 1: an entrepreneur. His name is Don Lemon. He's the host

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Speaker 1: of Seeing n Tonight with Don Lemon, and he's America's

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Speaker 1: only black prime time anchor. In Done was the leading

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Speaker 1: voice on CNN guided viewers like me through the death

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Speaker 1: of George Floyds on the summer nationwide protests and riots.

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Speaker 1: The viewers and myself we depended on him nightly to

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Speaker 1: god us through the global pandemic. I recently got a vaccine,

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Speaker 1: I woul tell you them. He guided me through the

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Speaker 1: process of being mature enough to deal with that and

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Speaker 1: go get the vaccine. I got it yesterday. Now an urgent,

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Speaker 1: deeply personal and rivetem plead his new book shows us

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Speaker 1: how deep our problem live with racism and what we

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Speaker 1: can do to begin to fix the problem. The book

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Speaker 1: is entitled This is the Fire What I Say to

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Speaker 1: my friends about racism. Don brings his vast audience and

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Speaker 1: experience as a reporter and a black man to today's

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Speaker 1: most urgent question, how can we end racism in America

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Speaker 1: in our lifetime? Please? Welcome to Money Making Conversation. Don Lemon,

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Speaker 1: Chris Shawan, Thank you so much. It's good to be

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Speaker 1: with you again. And wow, what an introduction. Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: some man, it was. It was emotional, you know, because

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Speaker 1: I read the book and the book was a journey.

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Speaker 1: And I say that to everybody that before I get

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Speaker 1: into detail about the book. One of the things that

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Speaker 1: I love what you said is somebody says they have

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Speaker 1: the answer to the racism, basically walk away from because

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Speaker 1: they lie. And you said that in the book, because

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Speaker 1: that's true. Talk to us about that. Well, it's said,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to write this book because I thought I

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Speaker 1: had some things that I could speak to and that

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Speaker 1: I could speak because I'm at the really at the

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Speaker 1: matrix of, as you so keenly pointed out, of everything

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Speaker 1: that happens in this country every single night, every weeknight,

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Speaker 1: at least sometimes on weekends, sometimes seven nights a week. Uh,

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Speaker 1: And I'm just sort of guiding people through the process

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Speaker 1: and so, um, so you're right on about that. I

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Speaker 1: it was, it was. It was a tough thing to

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Speaker 1: write this book, knowing, um what I know, and experiencing

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Speaker 1: what I've experienced, and it was, as you said, very personal.

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Speaker 1: Just before just before I hung up with you a

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Speaker 1: couple of minutes and just before I got on with

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Speaker 1: you a couple of minutes ago. Um, you know, my

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Speaker 1: I write the letter to my nephew in the beginning

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Speaker 1: of the book. My niece and her husband called, which

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Speaker 1: is Trishad my great nephew who I write the letter to.

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Speaker 1: It's his mom and stepdad. And they called me and

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Speaker 1: they were so emotional about the book, and they didn't

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Speaker 1: realize just how personal and how candid it would be.

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Speaker 1: And they said they were actually crying reading the book.

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Speaker 1: And he's like, and you know, his stepdad Jeffrey said,

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Speaker 1: I'm not an emotional person, but don you made me cry.

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Speaker 1: I believe this book is going to be a classic

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Speaker 1: and a hundred years people are going to be reading.

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Speaker 1: And I said, what, So there you go. But you

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Speaker 1: know in that letter it was it was a couple

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Speaker 1: of things. Maybe smile when you said we share the

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Speaker 1: same fourhead nose and we're articulated m bones. What is that?

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Speaker 1: What is that? Then you know you know well articulated

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Speaker 1: on bones, that everything is in the right place. Um, um,

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Speaker 1: there's a there's a photo of us at the beach

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Speaker 1: from a couple of summers ago, and um, very similar.

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Speaker 1: He's he has the younger body, uh, the younger version

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Speaker 1: of me. And so I looked at it. I said, look,

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Speaker 1: we have the same arms and we have the same

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Speaker 1: weird and so that I said, how would I put

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Speaker 1: that in there? Instead of saying, you know, it's so

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Speaker 1: simple to say we have the same arm and say, well,

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Speaker 1: don't want to say the same well articulated arm. But

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Speaker 1: I loved it. It may be smile because the book

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Speaker 1: like this want to smile. You want to find those

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Speaker 1: moments of happiness because it's the truth. And sometimes when

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Speaker 1: you deal with racism and that, and you know, white people,

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Speaker 1: they always say, you have to say, white people, can

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Speaker 1: you just move on? You know, we know there's a problem.

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Speaker 1: Can we move on. That's not me. They don't really

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Speaker 1: realize the vast nature of hot racism is so undercover.

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Speaker 1: The beauty of electing a person like you said with

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump in to me, you said, he led us

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Speaker 1: to the fire. And what exactly is the fire? Well,

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Speaker 1: he glowed us to the fire and then pour gasoline

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Speaker 1: on it. Um. The Fire is James Bowen's book, Um,

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Speaker 1: The Fire Next Time, which was this was a tribute

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Speaker 1: to right. That's why one of the reasons that I

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Speaker 1: um fashioned the book in the way that I fashioned

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Speaker 1: it is because James Bowen is my literal very hero

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Speaker 1: UM as I was as I read I read The

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Speaker 1: Fire Next Time a couple of times a year, and

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Speaker 1: as all of these events were unfolding UM in the

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Speaker 1: last few years, and especially the last year in the

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Speaker 1: summer of I wanted to write something. I was inspired

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Speaker 1: to write something that was short, that was concise, and

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Speaker 1: that was powerful, and I wrote it in the fashion

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Speaker 1: of James Baldwin. That's why James Balwan starts to fire

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Speaker 1: Next Time with a letter to his nephew one hundred

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Speaker 1: years after the Emancipation Proclamation on the anniversary one hundred

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Speaker 1: years and he starts by saying something like, we know

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Speaker 1: that we're celebrating or we're writing this. You know, I've

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Speaker 1: begun this letter, UM a thousand times and I've torn

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Speaker 1: it up. And then he says, we know that we're

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Speaker 1: celebrating this anniversary a hundred years too soon, even though

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Speaker 1: it's a hundred year anniversary of the Emancipation Patient Proclamation.

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Speaker 1: And when he said God gave no oh the rainbow

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Speaker 1: sign no more water to fire next time, to me,

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Speaker 1: that was an indication in a call after watching someone

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Speaker 1: die on camera, UM, that we were in the fire

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Speaker 1: and that we were at an inflection point in our society, UM,

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Speaker 1: and either we could decide as a group of people

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Speaker 1: to continue on towards a more perfect union rather than

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Speaker 1: a divisive union, or regressing to a time where UM,

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Speaker 1: people of color and marginalized people did not have equal

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Speaker 1: rights under the law under the Constitution, or at least

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Speaker 1: under the law unto the Constitution, they should have, but

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Speaker 1: not more treated that way, and so I believe that

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Speaker 1: we are. This is the fire that we're in right now.

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Speaker 1: If we don't fix this, then it's going to get

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Speaker 1: hotter and worse, and we will never fix it. We're

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Speaker 1: at an inflection point where it needs to change. And

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Speaker 1: then in the book we talked about it. I think

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Speaker 1: it's a great segument because you say we're a perfect

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Speaker 1: union because at the age of back three new book,

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Speaker 1: you talk about Thomas Jefferson and he's writing. But before

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Speaker 1: we go there, let's go back to sixteen nineteen as

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Speaker 1: you're talking a book when they really all started. You know,

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Speaker 1: you know many women are dark complexion of color, collection

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Speaker 1: skin well sold as slave in sixteen and then you

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Speaker 1: jumped to Thomas Jefferson at the age of thirty two

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Speaker 1: and when they wanted to do right, but they were

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Speaker 1: shouted down by men who didn't want to do right

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Speaker 1: because they said, who's going to pick the cotton? I'm

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Speaker 1: not picking the cotton, so's not gonna pick itself right.

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Speaker 1: And then because it was, like I said, it was

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Speaker 1: a beautiful book. First of all, I want to compliment

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Speaker 1: you on that because I read a lot of books

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Speaker 1: and and what captures me as a as a reader

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Speaker 1: is emotion and it also you're very colorful writer. In

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Speaker 1: other words, I actually felt the moments I felt uh

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Speaker 1: Thomas Jefferson's issues that he had in your writing. And

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Speaker 1: then you jumped to uh Miss moul Terry in nineteen

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Speaker 1: forty seven. It gets personal with you because you start

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Speaker 1: talking about your life. You know, you start talking about

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Speaker 1: this is an area of the country that you live in,

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Speaker 1: and she, as a black woman, was in a position

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Speaker 1: to purchase land and the issues that she had to

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Speaker 1: deal with. And then you jump even further to George Floyda.

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Speaker 1: Why was it important to have these transitional time moments

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Speaker 1: in your book to set the stage because I think

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Speaker 1: it was importan to show that the true history of

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Speaker 1: the country and the contributions of black people, of people

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Speaker 1: of color, of um people who were descendants of slaves.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was important to be able to point

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Speaker 1: that out because I don't think that we can solve

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Speaker 1: this unless we start at the beginning. In the beginning

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Speaker 1: is a true history of this country. You mentioned sixteen nineteen,

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Speaker 1: and there's a sixteen nineteen project, But there's also what

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Speaker 1: we should realize is that long before the Mayflower was here.

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Speaker 1: There were people who came over who made the journey

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Speaker 1: across the Atlantic, and they were Africans, and there were

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Speaker 1: people who helped to build this country for free. So

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Speaker 1: while we look upon the descendants are the people who

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Speaker 1: came over on the Mayflower as some sort of sort

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Speaker 1: of vaunted or celebrated position. Um, perhaps that we should

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Speaker 1: teach the history of the people who came over before

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Speaker 1: them as well, and who actually built the country for

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Speaker 1: free as slave slave labor. And um, so I used

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Speaker 1: mon terry, because mon terry that should be taught in

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Speaker 1: our history books to American history to kids, as we

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Speaker 1: teach Christopher columb Us discovered America. Christopher Columbus did not

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Speaker 1: discover America. America was here long before Christopher Columbus. Columbus

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Speaker 1: is here, just asked any native American. And it's insulting

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Speaker 1: to people actually to learn that, because it's not the truth.

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Speaker 1: If you want to say Christopher Columbus conquered America, or

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Speaker 1: that um that Europeans conquered America, Okay, that might be

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Speaker 1: a fair statement. So that um, people like Mone Terry

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Speaker 1: and his sister a Maza, and um, the German coast Uprising,

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Speaker 1: which I write about, and a number of other things

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Speaker 1: that instances in the book that include African Americans or

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Speaker 1: African how African people contributed to this country. I think

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Speaker 1: that's where we start with the truth from the beginning,

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Speaker 1: and that's why I wove all of those instances into

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Speaker 1: the book to try to bring it all from the past,

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Speaker 1: from the beginning into the presence. It's finally here the

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Speaker 1: season of celebration, and no matter how you celebrate with

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Speaker 1: family and friends, whether you're preparing for us Magos or

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Speaker 1: Ramu lighting the Manura, are going to midnight mass, Coals

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Speaker 1: has just what you need to make those traditions special.

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Speaker 1: Auto dot Ai. That's O T T E R. Dot Ai.

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Speaker 1: Now you're saying the book, you do not pretend to

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Speaker 1: have any answers. And then the book is this is

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Speaker 1: the fire. What I say to my friends about racism,

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Speaker 1: what what response are you given to your friends? So

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Speaker 1: the response that the biggest responses that we have to

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Speaker 1: do the work is that there's a shared responsibility that

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Speaker 1: we all have as American where we can't say, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, my people didn't do this, and my people

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Speaker 1: didn't do that, and I didn't know in plays and

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Speaker 1: I didn't know, but um, there but there were people

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Speaker 1: in this country, um, who weren't able to vote, weren't

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Speaker 1: able to get an education, who were not able to

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Speaker 1: live with they where they wanted and weren't able to

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Speaker 1: which is the biggest part of it is to earn

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Speaker 1: generational wealth. And but who helped to build the wealth

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Speaker 1: for wealthy people, and which offers what an ease in

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Speaker 1: society and the comfort and the level of privilege that

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Speaker 1: that isn't afforded to most people of color in this country.

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Speaker 1: And so what I tell them is that again they

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Speaker 1: must know their history starts from the beginning, and teaching

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Speaker 1: their children the real history of this country. But I

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Speaker 1: also tell people that the difference is going to be

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Speaker 1: made with the relationship because when you see people as human,

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Speaker 1: when you see people's humanity, it's hard to discriminate against them.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to be humanize them. And it's even more

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Speaker 1: difficult to put your knee on their neck for almost

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Speaker 1: nine minutes on a street in front of the world

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Speaker 1: to see, you know, relationships, get to know people who

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Speaker 1: don't look like you. That's really important, and it really

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Speaker 1: it was. It was interesting things. When I talk I

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Speaker 1: try to talk out of when I talked about staff,

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Speaker 1: I talked to my family and talked to my my daughter.

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Speaker 1: I would talk about the reality of what Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: was to this country. I always felt that and I

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Speaker 1: tell the people that I said equipment with the one

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Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, I think that we needed this gut

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Speaker 1: check because I felt that Donald Trump pushed this country

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Speaker 1: into a state of racist reality, and it brought out

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Speaker 1: a lot of people who are boldly let them know

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Speaker 1: how they feel about race, but boldly letting them know,

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Speaker 1: let you know what side of the eye they're willing

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Speaker 1: to stand on. Do you think that's good or bad?

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Speaker 1: Because myself I think I want to know what a

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Speaker 1: person thinks. Hiding what they think, I want to know

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Speaker 1: as well. I would rather someone tell me who they are.

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Speaker 1: I would rather know who they are, and we do now.

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Speaker 1: And that's why I stay in the book that he

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Speaker 1: was the president we deserved and probably the president we needed. Now,

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Speaker 1: what would it have been better if it if we

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Speaker 1: could have learned the same lessons through a different person

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Speaker 1: with a different experience. Yes, but all things being what

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Speaker 1: they were and what they are right now, we must

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Speaker 1: look at the reality, and that is that he exposed

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Speaker 1: um for us, the symptoms of what was boiling or

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Speaker 1: going on beneath the surface, and he's the one that

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Speaker 1: sent us into the doctor's office to have it diagnosed

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Speaker 1: and then fixed. Whatever that is, whether it's a long

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Speaker 1: process of of convalescing and trying to get better and

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Speaker 1: um and recovery, or whether it's just too excite the

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Speaker 1: problem and try to do it immediately and as fast

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Speaker 1: as possible. But whatever it is, he led, he supposed it,

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Speaker 1: and he led us here. And now we know we

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Speaker 1: don't have to live in um some false reality that

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Speaker 1: we thought that we were post racial, because we're not. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: you know, the thing about it, here's an interesting part

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Speaker 1: about my life. And you know, when you you know,

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Speaker 1: you develop a relationship with a person like you. You know,

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Speaker 1: I value the time I spend with you now, but

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Speaker 1: I even value the time I spend with you whenever

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Speaker 1: at my home. And I turned you on and as

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Speaker 1: a that's an honesty about you done it. Police expound

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Speaker 1: on that because it is riveting to me. Last night

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Speaker 1: when I saw you interview the Capitol police officer who

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Speaker 1: had UH and you in in twelve of Republican members

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Speaker 1: of Congress didn't want to honor them because they didn't

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Speaker 1: see the January sixth event as an insurrection, even though

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Speaker 1: five people died at that little I guess protest that

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Speaker 1: got out of hand. I guess that's what they're calling it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. But this man, you know, he used

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Speaker 1: the word are racial slur. He didn't want to use

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Speaker 1: in word. But he was mentally bruised and may take

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Speaker 1: years of therapy to recover from that moment. But you

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Speaker 1: was the interviewer. How did you how were you taking

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Speaker 1: all of that and then maintaining emotions? Well, I have

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Speaker 1: to because um I am the facilitator, right and if

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Speaker 1: I lose my composure, then you don't get anything out

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Speaker 1: of the interview. But at the very beginning of the interview,

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Speaker 1: I started talking to him and then he said, I'm

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Speaker 1: sorry I stopped. I didn't expect to be this emotional.

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Speaker 1: And so I've said to him, it's okay, go ahead

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Speaker 1: and talk to us. Why are you emotional? And then

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Speaker 1: it gets then he has to explain it. Um. It

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Speaker 1: gives him a place to go rather than going down

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Speaker 1: spiral and spiraling into his emotions. Sometimes you just have

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Speaker 1: to allow it and let people say what they want

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Speaker 1: to say. But I think it was more productive um

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Speaker 1: that he explained his feelings and why he become so emotional.

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Speaker 1: And he said, because I hadn't really had a chance

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Speaker 1: before this interview. The way I set it up the interview,

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Speaker 1: he said, it gave him a fuller perspective or more

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Speaker 1: fulsome perspective about um what had transpired and what people

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Speaker 1: thought about it. And also he had done one earlier interview,

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Speaker 1: and in that earlier interview he had not spoken to

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Speaker 1: his fellow officers, And after speaking to his fellow officers,

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Speaker 1: he got more of their experiences. And that cut even

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Speaker 1: deeper because one of one of the stellow officers said

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Speaker 1: to him, Um, the protesters were not only calling, you know,

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Speaker 1: me the N word, but they said, hey, N word,

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Speaker 1: you have that rifle in your hand. You're so big

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Speaker 1: and bad. Why don't you put that rifle down and

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Speaker 1: we'll show you how big of an inn word you are.

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Speaker 1: And this is a police officer who is who puts

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Speaker 1: his life on the line every day. And these people

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Speaker 1: are out there supposed to be supporters of the police officers,

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Speaker 1: and you know so called blue lives matter, but they're

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Speaker 1: beating them with blue lives matter, blackpoles and times. So um,

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Speaker 1: that's that's why he was emotional because he had had

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Speaker 1: time to his orbit. He hadn't had time to absorb

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Speaker 1: it before. I think he was somewhat still in a

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Speaker 1: state of shock. We know just in reading this book.

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Speaker 1: You know a great picture on the back by the way,

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Speaker 1: I love that picture. Where where was it taken? What

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Speaker 1: take that? That was taken in the backyard of my

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00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,800
Speaker 1: house in front of I have a shed in the backyard.

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Speaker 1: What is it? A shed in the backyard? And that's

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Speaker 1: the door to the shed and I'm actually, um standing

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Speaker 1: right next to there's Uh, I had dreamed the bushes

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Speaker 1: that I'm trying not to crush because I said, you know,

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Speaker 1: as a book, you write about a black man with

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Speaker 1: white heritage embody both the struggle and the hope of reconciliation,

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Speaker 1: you know. And I look at this very simple picture

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00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,840
Speaker 1: and it's and it works for you. You know. You know,

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Speaker 1: I don't see the tie. I don't see the look

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Speaker 1: I see o TV. And you have an amazing smile.

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Speaker 1: That's why it's always with me and you when I

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Speaker 1: interview you. I really wanted to see the smile. But

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Speaker 1: I have to balance that because you're such a you know,

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00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:55,760
Speaker 1: your your business is serious. You a guy, You a

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Speaker 1: guy who has to who present the whole process of

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Speaker 1: being serious and also informative. Talk to us before we

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Speaker 1: exit on this brilliant book. This is the fire What

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Speaker 1: I say to my friends about racism by Don Lemon.

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Speaker 1: It was a wrap up my friends, so we can

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Speaker 1: sell some more books. Tell me where do you want

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Speaker 1: to know? What do you want to know? From? Where

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Speaker 1: do we go? You know, without revealing the process of

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Speaker 1: your book, But where do you we go? How do

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00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:18,760
Speaker 1: we what? What do I have to do? You know,

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00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,120
Speaker 1: I feel I'm doing a good job. We go with honesty,

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Speaker 1: We go with a sense of openness. We go with

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Speaker 1: a vulnerability, the same vulnerability. Are in the same mindset

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Speaker 1: that we had during the summer when we were locked

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00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:39,000
Speaker 1: in our homes, when um, when our hearts and our

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00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,000
Speaker 1: minds were open, and then we saw someone die in

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00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,919
Speaker 1: front of our eyes. We go with that vulnerability, and

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00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,920
Speaker 1: we have to to um to a large degree trust

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Speaker 1: that our countrymen will do the right thing. But trust

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00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:57,800
Speaker 1: yet verified. But I would I would say, but here's

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Speaker 1: what I think again, And I hate to keep harping

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00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,520
Speaker 1: on this, and I know people think it's you know,

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00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,760
Speaker 1: it may sound traite. We have to establish relationships, especially

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Speaker 1: with people who do not look like us, the people

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00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:13,520
Speaker 1: who do not live particularly maybe in our same neighborhood

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00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,000
Speaker 1: or travel in our same circles. That is the only

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Speaker 1: way it's going to happen. We have to begin to

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Speaker 1: respect and learn and love each other and see each

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Speaker 1: other's humanity and that and and and then beyond that,

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Speaker 1: we have to begin to do the work. That's that

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Speaker 1: We've got to do the work, and and doing the

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00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,080
Speaker 1: work requires an open mind, in an open heart. Well,

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00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,359
Speaker 1: you've done the work, You've written a brilliant book and

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00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,399
Speaker 1: informati book, an emotional book that this is the fire.

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00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,600
Speaker 1: What I say to my friends about racism? What do

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00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:42,560
Speaker 1: you say to me every night? Makes me feel good

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00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,280
Speaker 1: and informs me and gives me hope. Done them? Don't

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00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,960
Speaker 1: you stop? And you are the prime time black man

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00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:54,159
Speaker 1: for America. Now Okay, Rashawn, thank you so much with that.

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00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,919
Speaker 1: I really appreciate all your support. Uh and thank you

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00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 1: for your time. Word and I'll be talking to you tonight.

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00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:01,399
Speaker 1: I'm mind show and hopefully I'll be back you on

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00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,320
Speaker 1: your show. Okay, big they say, you know we'll win.

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00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,520
Speaker 1: Bi Okay. I love this banking. Thank you. If you

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00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:09,639
Speaker 1: want to hear more Money Making Conversation interviews, please go

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Speaker 1: to Money Making Conversation dot com. I'm with Sean McDonald.

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Speaker 1: I'm the host. Thank you. Don. In this season of Giving,

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