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Speaker 1: Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of iHeartRadio and Grim

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Speaker 1: and Mild from Aaron Manky. Listener discretion advised.

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Speaker 2: Hello, this is Danish Schwartz and this is a very

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Speaker 2: special episode of Noble Blood because I am joined by

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Speaker 2: my very good friend, the incredibly talented, truly brilliant writer

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Speaker 2: Jennifer Wright.

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Speaker 3: Jana, I am so happy to be here.

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Speaker 2: Jennifer, you are just an incredible history writer. You've written

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Speaker 2: a few of my favorite books, get Well Soon, which

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Speaker 2: is a book about.

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Speaker 3: History's worst plagues and the heroes that fought.

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Speaker 2: Really, I was going to say a very topical pre

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Speaker 2: pandemic subject.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, in retrospect, I should not have leaked the Wuhan virus. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it was too much viral marketing. Yeah, in my part, I.

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Speaker 2: Was going to say, but it did probably boost book sales.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Also, just to be clear that that was a joke.

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Speaker 3: That's not how anyhing actually happened.

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Speaker 2: Jennifer is a little human being who is not involved

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Speaker 2: in anything COVID related. You wrote the book It ended Badly,

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Speaker 2: thirteen of the worst historical breakups. Yes, one of my

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Speaker 2: favorite books because it covers one of my favorite historical couples.

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Speaker 2: Caroline Lamb and Lord Byron.

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Speaker 3: I was going to say, I remember years ago talking

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Speaker 3: about Carolyn Lamb chopping off for pubic hair and sending

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Speaker 3: it to Lord Byron to try to win him back.

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Speaker 2: It's that move. What I relate to so profoundly is

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Speaker 2: when you're so in love with someone who clearly is

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Speaker 2: not interested, but you're like, you keep having to up

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Speaker 2: the stakes to get their attention.

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Speaker 3: You've got to go for broke. You've got to chop

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Speaker 3: off all your pubic hair and send it to them

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Speaker 3: in the mail.

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Speaker 2: It's the equivalent. If I could show you some of

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Speaker 2: the emails I wrote to like a boy when I

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Speaker 2: was like twenty two, stopped responding to my text Like,

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Speaker 2: some of the emails that I wrote are just like

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Speaker 2: I never want to see them again. I hope that

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Speaker 2: they are the equivalent of pubic hair. Oh.

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Speaker 3: I wrote like multi thousand word emails to people i'd

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Speaker 3: just broken up with, just trying to like break down

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Speaker 3: every part of our relationship but also get back together.

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Speaker 3: Why did I think that would work?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? That's always the secret is they want a well

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Speaker 2: written email.

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Speaker 3: That's what they want, A really long email.

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Speaker 2: That is the equivalent. But I'm so excited. Your most

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Speaker 2: recent book is Madame Marstelle, and it's a story that,

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Speaker 2: to be totally honest, I had no idea what it

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Speaker 2: was who she was until I started talking.

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Speaker 3: Well, that is because I think she has been very

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Speaker 3: deliberately written out of history. She was a very successful

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Speaker 3: female abortionist operating in mid nineteenth century America, and when

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Speaker 3: she started performing abortions in the eighteen thirties, it was

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Speaker 3: still classified as a misdemeanor if you performed the abortion

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Speaker 3: before the fourth or fifth month, and by the end

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Speaker 3: of Madame Marstelle's life in the eighteen seventies, the Comstock

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Speaker 3: Acted passed and the Comstock Act forbade sending anything obscene

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Speaker 3: through the mail, which included say, written descriptions of birth

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Speaker 3: control abortion, to say nothing of actually sending birth control

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Speaker 3: medication through the mail. And sadly, that is something we

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Speaker 3: are seeing revive now today.

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Speaker 2: Another sadly topical book. You're like the history, Cassandra at

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Speaker 2: this point.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I swear the next one is just going to

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Speaker 3: be about parties or something like. It's gonna be about

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Speaker 3: how everybody is nice and gets along.

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Speaker 2: It would be so nice, can you I know, we're

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Speaker 2: going to move on to the subject of the main

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Speaker 2: subject of the podcast, which is a fascinating figure of

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Speaker 2: the French Versailles culture. But can you tell us a

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Speaker 2: little bit about Madame Morstelle, even though she's not a noble.

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Speaker 3: You can tell everything about Madam Moistelle. There is indeed

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Speaker 3: a whole book about it. But you know, Madamistelle began

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Speaker 3: her life in written She was born antrou in eighteen

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Speaker 3: twelve in Painswick, England, and she came from a very large,

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Speaker 3: very poor family. She was a mate of all work

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Speaker 3: for a butcher, which meant that she would have been

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Speaker 3: doing pretty back breaking work, doing things like fetching any

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Speaker 3: water from the well and dumping out the chamber pots,

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Speaker 3: and beating all the rugs to make sure they were clean,

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Speaker 3: and cleaning out the fireplaces. And that was also a

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Speaker 3: time where if you were a maid, you were open

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Speaker 3: to a horrifying number of sexual advances from any man

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Speaker 3: in the house. Jonathan Swift Actley wrote advice to maids,

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Speaker 3: saying that you have to beware of the eldest son,

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Speaker 3: because you're going to get nothing from him but a

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Speaker 3: big belly in the clap at least you can get

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Speaker 3: money from the master of the house. So I think

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Speaker 3: that may have been one of the reasons that Madame

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Speaker 3: Ristelle always worked on a sliding scale when she charged

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Speaker 3: people later, and why she tended to charge servants less.

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Speaker 3: And in when she was sixteen, she married a taylor.

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Speaker 3: The tailor was unfortunately an alcoholic.

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Speaker 2: Is this where she got the name Restelle?

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Speaker 3: Oh? No, the tailor was unfortunately an alcoholic, and she

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Speaker 3: took over his work very quickly. And this is a

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Speaker 3: running trend in Madame Moistelle's life. She kind of meets

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Speaker 3: a man, sees how he does his job, and then

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Speaker 3: figures out how to do it better. Ye, but she

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Speaker 3: convinced him to move with their newborn daughter to America

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Speaker 3: so they could become rich. Then she gets to the

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Speaker 3: Lower East Side, her alcoholic husband dies almost immediately and

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Speaker 3: she is now a single mother on the Lower East

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Speaker 3: Side of New York. If you've seen Gangs of New York,

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Speaker 3: that's not accurate, but keep that picture in your mind.

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Speaker 3: That's where Madame Ristelle is.

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Speaker 2: And I remember a detail in your book that seamstresses

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Speaker 2: was like they were literally a down diamond.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, it made me understand I've read so many

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Speaker 3: novels from this period where the main character will be like,

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Speaker 3: I have thousands of dollars of debts to my dressmaker,

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Speaker 3: and I've always thought them, Why is your dressmaker still

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Speaker 3: making you dresses? She should have cut you off ages ago.

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Speaker 3: It's because there are so many of them that you

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Speaker 3: have to operate on even the hope of payment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So, yeah, it's a time. A prostitution is everywhere because

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Speaker 3: working in a factory means working sixteen hour days, and

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Speaker 3: if you have a child, then you don't have enough

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Speaker 3: money for childcare. The factory doesn't pay enough. Women would

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Speaker 3: drug their children with laud of them so they would

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Speaker 3: sleep while they were at work. In one especially horrifying

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Speaker 3: Dickensian note that I found, there was a woman who

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Speaker 3: was a single mother worked in a factory, had a

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Speaker 3: four year old and a newborn, and she told the

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Speaker 3: four year old to take care of the newborn while

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Speaker 3: she was at work. And when she came back, the

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Speaker 3: four year old and if you have a toddler, you

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Speaker 3: can imagine how proudly the four year old would say this,

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Speaker 3: said that the baby had been crying but they had

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Speaker 3: stopped him, and the mother praised him, and then she

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Speaker 3: went to see the baby and he had stopped him

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Speaker 3: by beating him over the head with a hammer until

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Speaker 3: he died. Oh so, so this was a terrible dime

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Speaker 3: to be a single mother or have an unplanned pregnancy

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Speaker 3: of any kind. And Madame Restelle really might have fallen

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Speaker 3: into this situation very easily. But she lived down the

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Speaker 3: street from a pill compounder named doctor Evans, and doctor

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Speaker 3: Evans provided all manner of pills. There was no oversight.

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Speaker 3: You could smash any herbs together and say this will

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Speaker 3: cure your headaches, or this it might give it a shop.

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Speaker 3: What have you got to lose? And he probably also

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Speaker 3: provided birth control pills. But Madame Rostelle started making what

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Speaker 3: must have been incredibly effective birth control pills. She was

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Speaker 3: using ingredients like tansy oil and turpentine and mixing them together.

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Speaker 3: And those are unbelievably dangerous ingredients. You should never ever use.

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Speaker 2: Some although paint center in your like paint centner.

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Speaker 3: Yes, unfortunately, they still do get used. In the nineteen seventies,

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Speaker 3: doctor said turpentine is a harrowing motif into it yourself abortions.

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Speaker 3: So these are things that will work. They will just

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Speaker 3: also kill their female patient. And Madame Roselle is pretty

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Speaker 3: remarkable in that she mixed them together without killing people's.

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Speaker 3: People in the neighborhood started saying that they had had

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Speaker 3: five abortions this way and they were coming back for more.

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Speaker 3: She could also perform surgical abortions with a sharpened piece

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Speaker 3: of whalebone. Now if her hand slipped, she could punch

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Speaker 3: her a woman's bladder and kill her. Another amazing thing

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Speaker 3: is that, despite a lot of people trying very hard

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Speaker 3: to prove that Madame Ristelle was killing people, there are

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Speaker 3: no records that indicate that she ever killed a patient. Oh,

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Speaker 3: so Restelle must have had a very steady hand and

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Speaker 3: a real genius for mixing ingredients. Around this time she

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Speaker 3: met her second husband, Charles Lowman, who was a printer,

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Speaker 3: and he was really familiar with the bombastic personalities that

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Speaker 3: advertised in newspapers, and together they came up with this

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Speaker 3: persona of Madame Rostelle, and they talked about how she

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Speaker 3: was and her grandmother was a famous mid wife, and

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Speaker 3: she had been training in Paris and bringing her skills

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Speaker 3: to America. And this was a time when medical innovation

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Speaker 3: was happening in Paris. In a way it wasn't in America.

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Speaker 3: So this was a great persona to craft. It's glamorous, man,

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Speaker 3: it's glamorous.

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Speaker 2: If anyone came and said that her grandma was a

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Speaker 2: famous parish and.

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Speaker 3: His wife, exactly, it sounds sexy too. People thought that

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Speaker 3: French people were more sexually sophisticated in addition to having

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Speaker 3: better medical skills. So that's how this persona of Madame

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Speaker 3: Riistelle was born.

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Speaker 2: And someone rich people, doctor Muter. This is my my

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Speaker 2: anatomy research shelf down there. Doctor Mutter, who was has

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Speaker 2: If you've been to Philadelphia, there's a Muter music.

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Speaker 3: I'm dying to go.

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Speaker 2: I mean too, we should go together to go girls.

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Speaker 2: He trained for in French surgeries. That's where all the

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Speaker 2: surgery was was.

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Speaker 3: Exactly, yes, go to France. One of the reasons that

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Speaker 3: they drove female midwives out of business in America is

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Speaker 3: because they started trying to open up schools for doctors

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Speaker 3: in America. But they were terrible. You couldn't walk the

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Speaker 3: hospitals the way you could in France. So they would

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Speaker 3: rent out a lecture hall, charge young men like fifty

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Speaker 3: dollars and in six months if you showed up to

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Speaker 3: most of the classes where you would never see an

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Speaker 3: actual patient. Usually there was just like a skeleton or

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Speaker 3: a box of bones. At the end, you got your diploma.

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Speaker 2: Sure.

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Speaker 3: And as a result, it's estimated that in the mid

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Speaker 3: eighteen hundreds there were suddenly four times as many doctors

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Speaker 3: as pounds needed, and they had to find a new

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Speaker 3: source of income, and that is one of the reasons

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Speaker 3: that they started pushing in on midwives trade.

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Speaker 2: Wow, And I do love I think like the interest

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Speaker 2: of like when midwiffery became obcentrics and like more male

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Speaker 2: dominated doctors is fascinating to me because I love the

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Speaker 2: story of how Princess Charlotte of Wales in the early

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Speaker 2: eighteen hundreds, who's a character in Immortality, but she in

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Speaker 2: real life was pregnant and it was very fashionable to

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Speaker 2: have a male doctor. At this time.

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Speaker 3: They were worse, you know, they were there right there, died.

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Speaker 3: There was an average of one us in two hundred

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Speaker 3: was a female midwife in this period, and it was

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Speaker 3: ten to twenty times higher if you had a male doctor.

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Speaker 3: They were so much worse.

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Speaker 2: They were so much worse, and she died and it

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Speaker 2: was just considered fashionable to have a male doctor because

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Speaker 2: she was a princess. She had to do it.

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Speaker 3: Yep.

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Speaker 2: And she died and it was bad yep.

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Speaker 3: And the American Medical Society made such a big deal

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Speaker 3: out of how midwives are barbaric relics, and of course

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Speaker 3: midwives hands were actually clean, whereas doctors were digging them

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Speaker 3: into a corpse and then pulling them out and then

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Speaker 3: sticking them into a woman's birth canal.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they would treat an infected abscess and then be

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Speaker 2: like perfect, but inside.

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Speaker 3: Of it, oh my gosh, the one that killed me

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Speaker 3: the most. I'm sorry. I know we have to talk

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Speaker 3: about nobility because this is noble blood. Please. But after

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Speaker 3: Ignat Similfies, oh God bless him, God may he rest

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Speaker 3: in peace. But after Ignacemolies suggested that maybe the reason

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Speaker 3: so many women are dying are because doctors need to

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Speaker 3: wash their hands. And by the way he tested this,

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Speaker 3: he found out that it worked. He could bring the

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Speaker 3: death rate for female patients down on par with mid

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Speaker 3: talk and Charles Miggs replied that this was absurd because

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Speaker 3: quote unquote, doctors are gentlemen, and gentlemen have clean hands.

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Speaker 2: It's the ego on them.

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Speaker 3: I'm so furious about it. I'm furious two hundred years

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Speaker 3: later about.

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Speaker 2: How many women had unnecessary death.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, well, speaking of one day for bird control

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Speaker 3: in America, you got.

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Speaker 2: Luckily that it's not something we need to deal with anymore.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But if we're talking about women in positions of power

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Speaker 2: that I think sometimes people think are anachronistic, like women

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Speaker 2: didn't have any power or influence in the seventeen hundreds.

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Speaker 2: One of my favorite figures, and I think a figure

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Speaker 2: that you love is Madame de Pompadour.

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Speaker 3: I am so happy to talk about her. No one

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Speaker 3: as the pretty prime Minister at the Court of Versailles.

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Speaker 2: So for someone who has no idea who she is

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Speaker 2: outside perhaps of a single Doctor Who episode, there.

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Speaker 3: Is a Doctor Who episode, really good one. It's the

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Speaker 3: only one I've seen.

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Speaker 2: It's a good one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's nice.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's sweet.

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Speaker 3: I don't like the robots. I like where it's just

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Speaker 3: about Madame Pompadour.

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Speaker 2: That is also kind of my I I've watched a

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Speaker 2: little bit more Doctor Who. I've fallen off a little bit.

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Speaker 2: I like when it's like historical characters and fine, I like.

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Speaker 3: When they meet Vincent Bengo. Yeah, I like it if

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Speaker 3: it was just some people meeting Vincent, I love.

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Speaker 2: I love when they just meet historical figures too. I

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Speaker 2: don't need a distant planet.

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Speaker 3: No, I don't. I sorry. I know people love it.

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Speaker 3: It's a good show. I get it. I know it's

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Speaker 3: very special to people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but there's a wonderful Madame de Pompadour episode. But

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Speaker 2: for people who maybe have only seen that episode or nothing,

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Speaker 2: who was the pretty Prime Minister?

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Speaker 3: The pretty Prime Minister was Louis the fifteenth Mistress, and

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Speaker 3: she was one of the most famous mistresses of this

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Speaker 3: era because she was the mistress at Versailles for about

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Speaker 3: twenty years.

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Speaker 2: When you say mistress you mean the official position, I.

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Speaker 3: Mean the official mistress.

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Speaker 2: Yes, for context, in case you're less familiar, Mistress in

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Speaker 2: this case doesn't just mean, you know, was having a

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Speaker 2: sexual relationship with a king. Mistress was a court position.

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Speaker 3: Mistress was a court position, and it was a very

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Speaker 3: important court position. The queen was really just there to

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Speaker 3: provide children. Louis the fifteenth had a very lovely wife,

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Speaker 3: Queen Marie Lesinka. She produced children, but she was also

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Speaker 3: very religious. She was very retiring. She did gamble, but

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Speaker 3: she played a game, but nobody liked l She had

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Speaker 3: a hard time getting people to play her very old

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Speaker 3: fashioned gambling game.

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Speaker 2: Ian doesn't like to play scrabble with me because I

293
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Speaker 2: always beat him.

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Speaker 3: Oh hurtful. I know Daniel and I to play scrabble

295
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Speaker 3: every night. That sounds so nice. Do we watch a movie,

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Speaker 3: we play scrabble?

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Speaker 2: I love I would love that.

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Speaker 3: It's a lovely way to end the desk.

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Speaker 2: Ian has taken to refusing to play scrabble with me

300
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Speaker 2: because I'll be like a hundred points up and have

301
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Speaker 2: done with this.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, you've got to know all the two

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Speaker 3: letters got zaw key gi like those winners. Guys, Well

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Speaker 3: that's it.

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Speaker 2: I play for strategy, he plays for showman.

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Speaker 3: What qt Yeah yeah, work that in. But anyhow, Queen

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Speaker 3: Marie out there trying to get people to play Letlers

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Speaker 3: of Katan with her every night. And uh, Louis the

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Speaker 3: fifteen that had a bit of a more bomb vivent personality.

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Speaker 3: He was prone to boredom, but he was also somebody

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Speaker 3: who really enjoyed consistency. I think something that you see

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Speaker 3: with Louis the Fifteenth is that Madame Pompadour essentially became

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Speaker 3: his wife.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the mistress for twenty years and then like

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Speaker 2: friend to the king that years after fascinating to me,

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Speaker 2: So can we begin with the beginning of her life?

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Speaker 3: Of course, Madame Pompadour, and it's something that differed her

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Speaker 3: a lot from other royal mistresses was born to the bourgeois.

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Speaker 2: Class, so she was wealthy but not noble.

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Speaker 3: She was wealthy but not noble. Her father was a

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Speaker 3: financier who had been exiled for fraud. Her mother had

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Speaker 3: a sparkling personality, which, reading between the lines on Saint

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Speaker 3: Nancy Metford's biography of Madame Pompadour, meant that her mother

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Speaker 3: was sleeping around a lot. A lot of people felt

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Speaker 3: that they could not receive Madame Pompadour's mother, but everybody

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00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:49,840
Speaker 3: loved Madame Pompadour pretty much from birth. Her mother's special

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Speaker 3: friend helped finance her education. She spent two years with nuns,

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Speaker 3: who said that she charmed everyone at the abbey. She

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Speaker 3: was just such a delight. And then she returned home

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Speaker 3: and she was educated in all the arts of the day,

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Speaker 3: in art, in dancing, in playing music. She was a

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Speaker 3: successful harpist so she was this delightful person and everybody

333
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,320
Speaker 3: was also really nice to her, which is one of

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Speaker 3: the reasons that I really enjoyed reading her story, because

335
00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,800
Speaker 3: usually you read stories about these people and it will

336
00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:28,920
Speaker 3: be a story about like she was first raped by

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Speaker 3: her stepfather at the age of seven. After that, her

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00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:36,120
Speaker 3: mother died of smallpox, and Mina Popadour is just hanging

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00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:41,399
Speaker 3: out with her somewhat licentious, extended family, plenty of money,

340
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Speaker 3: playing the harp. Everybody loves her, Everybody says she's great.

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Speaker 3: Her mother's special friend like doats on her and talks

342
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Speaker 3: about how wonderful she is. And when she was about ten,

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Speaker 3: her mother took her to visit a fortune teller and

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Speaker 3: the fortune teller told her that she was not going

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Speaker 3: to be queen, but almost queen.

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Speaker 2: She freaking nailed it.

347
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Speaker 3: She nailed it. Madame Pompadour sent her money much later

348
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Speaker 3: life for nailing it so well, and everyone in her

349
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,840
Speaker 3: family started calling her Raynette, which means little Queen, and

350
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Speaker 3: Madame Pompadour fully fully believed this.

351
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Speaker 2: Reynette is a great name for a cat.

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Speaker 3: It is, yeah, she fully believed that, all right, I

353
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Speaker 3: am going to be the royal mistress, we are going

354
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Speaker 3: to do it, and her family was kind of on

355
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Speaker 3: board with that. It kind of seemed like, yeah, sure,

356
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Speaker 3: you're going to be an astronaut, do it. Why not

357
00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:35,119
Speaker 3: do it now. At the time, bourgeois women weren't royal mistresses.

358
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Speaker 3: The king would select somebody from court, and court had

359
00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:45,680
Speaker 3: become unbelievably important under the reign of Louis fourteen Louis

360
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:50,440
Speaker 3: the fourteenth, because nobles had been feuding so much and

361
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Speaker 3: for so long that Louis fourteenth Louis the fourteenth really

362
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,800
Speaker 3: figured out, all right, you keep them all at court,

363
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,600
Speaker 3: you give them an ingless round of plays, and you

364
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,959
Speaker 3: gamify every aspect of their lives. There was a special

365
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:08,679
Speaker 3: ballot court for women who had a good cook. So

366
00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,840
Speaker 3: I guarantee you if there were like that many little

367
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,080
Speaker 3: things I could win on as somebody who thinks of

368
00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,960
Speaker 3: themselves as only mildly competitive, I would need to have

369
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,840
Speaker 3: the best cook. It would become like a dominating thought

370
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,199
Speaker 3: that I had on a day to day basis. So

371
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,879
Speaker 3: everybody was gathered at court and it was an incredibly

372
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:36,960
Speaker 3: ritualized society. It was a society where you know, every

373
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,960
Speaker 3: tiny move could be interpreted the wrong way. And it

374
00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:42,960
Speaker 3: was really thought that if you just grew up in

375
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Speaker 3: wealthy Parussian society, you could never understand the rules of

376
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:52,920
Speaker 3: this world. But of Madame Pompadour, you know, married a

377
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,720
Speaker 3: very nice, wealthy man, her mother's I don't want to

378
00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:58,880
Speaker 3: say stepfather, I keep calling him a special friend.

379
00:19:59,119 --> 00:19:59,480
Speaker 2: A friend.

380
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:04,480
Speaker 3: Her mother's special friend helped arrange the marriage, and it

381
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,800
Speaker 3: was a young man who had not wanted to marry.

382
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,280
Speaker 3: He definitely didn't like the idea of marrying this woman

383
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,960
Speaker 3: who had kind of a vaguely scandalous family, and supposedly

384
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,679
Speaker 3: the first day he met her, he fell completely in

385
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,639
Speaker 3: love with her. And this was actually really hard for

386
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,040
Speaker 3: Madame Pompadour, because she made it clear to him that

387
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:26,879
Speaker 3: she was going to leave him when she got an

388
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 3: opportunity to sleep with the king. And she wrote about

389
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:35,159
Speaker 3: how actually it's very hard to be the beloved in

390
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,960
Speaker 3: a relationship with somebody that you are not in love with.

391
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,880
Speaker 3: Because and I think that's interesting, we don't we hear

392
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,000
Speaker 3: a lot about the pain of unrequited love, but we

393
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,920
Speaker 3: don't hear about the kind of day to day discomfort

394
00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:53,760
Speaker 3: of being the object of unrequited love, especially when you

395
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:55,800
Speaker 3: are in a marriage with that person.

396
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Speaker 2: Very sweet that she let him know up friends.

397
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,000
Speaker 3: I think he thought she was joking. I think he

398
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 3: did not think that this was ever actually going to happen.

399
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:07,560
Speaker 2: He's like, okay, sweetheart.

400
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, yes, when you meet an astronaut, Yes,

401
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,840
Speaker 3: it was like I am okay house with George Clooney.

402
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:15,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, she had a hall pass liston.

403
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:22,439
Speaker 3: It was like Brad Pitt the King King, Yah perfectly. Yeah. Yeah.

404
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,040
Speaker 3: So her poor husband desperately in love with her but

405
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,080
Speaker 3: providing a very nice life for her, at which point

406
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 3: she gets to start a salon. She becomes friends with

407
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:35,399
Speaker 3: Voltaire and Diderot and other thinkers of the day, and

408
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:37,560
Speaker 3: she is going to help them a lot once she's

409
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:42,160
Speaker 3: at court. And one of the big advantages of her

410
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 3: marriage is her husband has a hunting lunch that is

411
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 3: near where the king likes to hunt. So while the

412
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 3: king is hunting, Meda and Pompadour does this cool thing

413
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,679
Speaker 3: where she drives by in a beautiful pink dress in

414
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:58,680
Speaker 3: a blue carriage or a blue dress in a pink carriage,

415
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,080
Speaker 3: and the king to send her some venison, of course,

416
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,359
Speaker 3: and also an invitation to a masked ball at the

417
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:06,360
Speaker 3: court of their side.

418
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 2: So you know your dress and carriage made an impression.

419
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 2: When you get venison and a party invite.

420
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:17,120
Speaker 3: You do. Yeah. So Madame Pompadour goes to this ball

421
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,800
Speaker 3: and it's a ball where Louis the fifteenth has dressed

422
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 3: up as a U Tree along with eight of his

423
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 3: male friends because he doesn't want people to immediately know

424
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:32,719
Speaker 3: who he is, and everybody is very invested in figuring

425
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 3: out who the king is at a mass ball that

426
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,200
Speaker 3: is part of the fund. But he's one of eight

427
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:44,400
Speaker 3: U Trees. Meanwhile, Madame Pompadour dressed as Diana the Huntress, Yeah,

428
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:51,200
Speaker 3: as a little reminder of her hunting excursions. And they

429
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 3: sleep together for the first time on that night, and

430
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,480
Speaker 3: Madame Pompadour essentially never leaves.

431
00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 2: She figured out which U Tree he was, Oh, he

432
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:00,240
Speaker 2: revealed it to it.

433
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was. He was in. One of the things

434
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 3: that I do think is sad is her husband uncharacteristically

435
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,360
Speaker 3: wrote her this letter just begging her to come back,

436
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 3: saying that all was forgiven, like he didn't even care

437
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 3: if she was sleeping with other people. Just come back.

438
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,399
Speaker 3: And she showed up to Louis the fifteenth like, haha,

439
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,639
Speaker 3: isn't this funny, And Louis the fifteenths got really serious

440
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,879
Speaker 3: and said, your husband seems like he's a very decent man. Yeah. Yeah,

441
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,960
Speaker 3: he was a very decent man. Now, Louis the fifteenth says, also,

442
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,199
Speaker 3: I'm sure you've talked about him on Noble Blood, but

443
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 3: he ends up being a king that I have a

444
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 3: lot of tenderness for.

445
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,120
Speaker 2: He is in case. I mean, we haven't covered him

446
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,959
Speaker 2: specifically on Noah Bleass. We've covered tangents, but he is

447
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:51,639
Speaker 2: Louis the sixteenth aka Marie Antoinette's husband's grandfather.

448
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 3: And he was the great grandson of Louis the fourteenth,

449
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 3: so he was never expected to be king except when

450
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 3: he was five, he's entire family died of measles, and

451
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 3: he was saved by his governess, who sequestered him away.

452
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 3: And one of the reasons that was important was not

453
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,199
Speaker 3: just because measles can kill you, thank God for vaccines,

454
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 3: but because the doctors were letting blood out of all

455
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,479
Speaker 3: his brothers, and they let out so much blood that

456
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,640
Speaker 3: it worn't their health and killed them. So his governess

457
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 3: probably saved his life by hiding him away. But when

458
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 3: he emerged his entire family was dead and he was

459
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 3: going to be the new king of France. And one

460
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 3: of the things I like about Louis fifteenth is that

461
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 3: it's so clear that he worked so hard Louis the fourteenth.

462
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 3: I think it's hard to argue that Louis the fourteenth

463
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 3: was at least a short term genius.

464
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 2: Yes, strategy, strategy genius.

465
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 3: I think ultimately the notion of keeping every single noble

466
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,199
Speaker 3: at court destroyed the French countryside, and I think that

467
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 3: was already happening by Louis the fifteenth reign. People thought

468
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,360
Speaker 3: that being exiled from Versailles was a fate as bad

469
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 3: as death. Yeah. There was one noble woman whose husband

470
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 3: came to her to reveal that they were being exiled

471
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 3: back to their massive, beautiful estate in the country, and

472
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 3: she started crying as soon as she saw him, and

473
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 3: she explained that that was because from the look on

474
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 3: his face, she assumed that their son had died. So

475
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 3: it was very, very bad to have to leave Versailles.

476
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:37,360
Speaker 3: But that did mean that the farmlands were not being

477
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 3: taken care of in France. People were starting to starve

478
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 3: to death because nothing was being farmed.

479
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 2: You need a leader there you need.

480
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 3: Somebody there, just kind of reminding people that they do

481
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 3: have to farm. Yeah, yeah, I mean, obviously you don't

482
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,400
Speaker 3: actually need that. In modern society, democracy is the way

483
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 3: to go. Please don't let's return any of this. But

484
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,679
Speaker 3: at the time it did not make for a fundcational

485
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 3: country side. So Louis the fifteenth did not really have

486
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 3: any of his grandfather's short term genius. So but he

487
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 3: started sitting in meetings from the time he was five.

488
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 3: He would take his pet cat along with him, and

489
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 3: he explained to everybody that his pet cat was his

490
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 3: special advisor, and he would like whisper little notes to

491
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 3: his cat while she was listening, and just tried really

492
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 3: hard to keep up with it. They talk about how

493
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 3: one of the times he started crying in one of

494
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 3: the meetings was when they revealed to him who he

495
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:34,959
Speaker 3: was going to be married to, and he realized that

496
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 3: he was never going to get to marry for love,

497
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 3: and overall just like a guy who was trying pretty hard,

498
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 3: guy trying his best, guy trying his best. One of

499
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 3: the other facts that I've always liked about him is

500
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 3: that there was an appointed time when the king would

501
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 3: rise at their sih and other nobles would have the

502
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 3: privilege of helping the king wake up in order of rain,

503
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 3: in order of rank. Yes, yes, so it would be

504
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 3: a very special thing to get to and the king

505
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 3: like a towel on his face in the morning. And

506
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 3: what Louis the fifteenth would do was he would wake

507
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 3: up two hours before that, light his own fire, get

508
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 3: his own room ready, try to take care of paperwork

509
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 3: so he could get a jump on the day, then

510
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 3: extinguish everything and pretend to go back to bed. And

511
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 3: he would do the same thing late at night, where

512
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 3: nobles would put him to bed, and then he would

513
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 3: have to get up again. It's like, I'm so sleepy,

514
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 3: was so great everybody night night. So I've always found

515
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 3: that a very I guess I find hard work kind

516
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 3: of likable pace.

517
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

518
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 3: The other thing he was doing at night was slipping

519
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 3: off to see his mistress the bud for the first

520
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 3: seven at least seven years of his marriage. I think

521
00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 3: it was longer than seven years. I think you might have. Yeah,

522
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 3: you would have. Okay, hold on, I'm going to check

523
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 3: on Louis.

524
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 4: The fourteenth married. Yeah, because Louis the fifteenth, Louis the fifteenth. Sorry,

525
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 4: it's so interesting the way that that ritualized court structure

526
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 4: forces even the people that benefits the most, which is

527
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 4: the kings, into.

528
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 2: The most restrictive roles. It's like you have all the power,

529
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 2: but you're still on a very limited track for what

530
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:23,679
Speaker 2: your daily existence is.

531
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 3: So there's some debates on the number, but people estimate

532
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 3: that for around ten years at least he was totally

533
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,360
Speaker 3: loyal to his wife. He married Queen.

534
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 2: Marie, Marie with her last name and.

535
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 3: Sisa, I'm so sorry, I said, no, it's Polish. But

536
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 3: he married Queen Marie, tried very hard to be loyal

537
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 3: to her. She was again. She was very religious and

538
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 3: always trying to get people to play the eighteenth century

539
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 3: equivalent of settlers of Katan. So it sounds like fun Marie. No,

540
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 3: for sure, Yeah, how bad could it be? But eventually

541
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 3: Louis the fifteenth did want somebody with a more dynamic personality,

542
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 3: and he had a few mistresses before Madame Pompadour. But

543
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 3: Madame Pompadour really starts bringing things to court life that

544
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 3: nobody was bringing. She started a theater. She's friends with

545
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 3: Voltaire and Didero and other great writers of the time.

546
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 3: She started having special dinners for Louis the fifteenth and

547
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 3: all of her artist friends. And it's interesting to me

548
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 3: that Louis the fifteenth loved being seated by artists at

549
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 3: dinner and talking to them about art, but he did

550
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 3: not love being seated by writers. She knew they might

551
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 3: write about him, and he did not want to drink

552
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 3: with these people and say something that they were immediately

553
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 3: going to write in published.

554
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 2: It's so funny. It's also how rich people love surrounding

555
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 2: themselves with creatives his traditionally and historically, Yes, absolutely, because

556
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 2: it's the one thing money can't buy.

557
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 3: It is and Madame Pompadour opened up a theater at Versailles.

558
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 3: I think it was Le Teatra dept Cabinet, and she

559
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 3: preferred formed all of the main female roles, of course,

560
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 3: and she but it was incredibly competent to get to

561
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 3: act in the theater because they would have professional actors

562
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 3: come and help the nobles. It would be like being

563
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 3: in your high school play, but nobles would bend over

564
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 3: backwards to get like a tiny, tiny speaking role.

565
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 2: I mean, it sounds really fun.

566
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 3: It does sound really fun. Or they would ribe Madame

567
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 3: Pompadour's maid to get them an invitation so they could

568
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 3: go and see one of these performances.

569
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 2: Truly, if we were all like living at versa summer

570
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 2: camp and there was like a play going on, and

571
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 2: like professional actors were coming in to help you and

572
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 2: do it, like that sounds so fun.

573
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 3: Yes. Madame Pompadoor also had this huge list of rules

574
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 3: for rules for being in the play, and there are

575
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 3: things like you have to make every single rehearsal, like

576
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 3: you cannot turn down any role even if you think

577
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 3: that role is I'm flattering, and they're taking it really seriously. Yeah, now,

578
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 3: this was one of the things that started in raging

579
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 3: the commoners of why are we paying for them to

580
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 3: do theater summer camp at Versailles. That seems unnecessary to

581
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 3: everyone who is increasingly facing food shortage. Yes, so that

582
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 3: was one of the things that people immediately started getting

583
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 3: angry about the idea of this royal mysteries is bankrupting us.

584
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 3: But at the same time, Madame Pompadour was a huge

585
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 3: patron of the arts, so she was patronizing the idea

586
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 3: of china being made at Sevre's instead of getting your

587
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 3: china from places like Germany. At the time, she was

588
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 3: also commissioning every famous artist from this period. She's really

589
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 3: responsible for the movement from the Baroque to the rope

590
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 3: Coco period, and so you're going from kind of if

591
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 3: you sort of know the difference between those periods. I'm

592
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 3: going to oversimplify it, but this sort of dark, heavy, heavy,

593
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 3: biblical biblical imagery to girl girl, It's it's sexy, it's fun,

594
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 3: it contains elements of frivolity, it's more feminine. And she

595
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 3: also made pink popular feminine color that people wanted to wear.

596
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 2: And I'm going to embarrass myself in case this is

597
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 2: a one of those historical misconceptions. Did the Pompadour come

598
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 2: from her?

599
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 3: Yes? Yes, So there are so many things that she

600
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 3: was doing. She learned how to cut gemstones when she

601
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 3: was at Versa. I I would love.

602
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 2: To be a rich person with just infinite time.

603
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 3: She started engraving. Now, the only problem here is that

604
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 3: Madame Pompadour was also in fairly frag file health. She

605
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 3: had pretty much chronic bronchitis, and Louis the fifteenth was

606
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 3: coming to her for sex up to nine times a day.

607
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 2: Can we also say, just to point out that this

608
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 2: like girl with a million cool hobbies. He's an artistic

609
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 2: bohemian in ill health. Is really manic pixie drinks.

610
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 3: Oh, she's very manic pixie gers.

611
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 2: She might have originated it. She has bronchitis, she's coughing.

612
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 2: She's coughing all the top.

613
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 3: She is not in great health. And Louis the fifteenth

614
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 3: has a massive sexual appetit nine times a day. Yeah.

615
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 2: Now.

616
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 3: At one point she started trying to subsist on a

617
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 3: diary of vanilla truffles and celery because she had heard

618
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 3: that those were all things that would increase her libido.

619
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 3: But a friend of hers fortunately told her that this

620
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 3: is going to kill you, and it will not make

621
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 3: you more able to have sex.

622
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 2: Eating only those things I don't think would make me

623
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 2: feel sexy.

624
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 3: I mean, I like truffles, Yeah, I don't know that

625
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 3: would be cool eddie truffles. But she started exercising, which

626
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 3: seemed to help a little bit. But I think somewhat

627
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 3: fortunately for Pompadour, who could not keep up with this.

628
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 3: After five years, the sexual relationship ended, but she was

629
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 3: kept on at Versailles as a friend to the king.

630
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 3: And I think it's very funny that when they made

631
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 3: her this sort of new official title. She changed all

632
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 3: of the imagery in her room from being like cupids

633
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 3: and depictions of love to depictions of beautiful friendship. And

634
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 3: she gave a statue to the king. But if it

635
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 3: is a statue I'm thinking of it's a statue that

636
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 3: represents the spirit of friendship. But the spirit of friendship

637
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 3: has both of its breasts exposed, and she's coppying them

638
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 3: as friends, as friends like you do with your buddies.

639
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes you show your friends pictures of your boobs

640
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 2: to be like, how do my boobs like that?

641
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,439
Speaker 3: They look great? Right, See how I'm copying them for you. Yeah.

642
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 3: Around this time, Louis the fifteenth didn't ever really take

643
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 3: on on the the full time mistress. He had a

644
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 3: hunting lodge where he would keep young women who he

645
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 3: was having sex with, and I think it was called

646
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 3: the Parko Serf.

647
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 2: So it's like, he's not going to fall in love

648
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 2: with these girls.

649
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 3: And that was Madame Pompadour's comment at the time that

650
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 3: she wasn't afraid that some young girl with no education

651
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 3: was going to take him away, but she was afraid

652
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,800
Speaker 3: that he would fall in love with another noble lady

653
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 3: at the court.

654
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 2: So better he'd be getting his physical needs met just

655
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 2: by exact Yes.

656
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 3: One of the things that's so interesting is that this

657
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 3: is also very similar to what happened to the Queen.

658
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 3: And the Queen said, was Madame Pompadour, if there has

659
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 3: to be a raw mistress, better her than any other.

660
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 2: And I think I remember even reading that Madame de

661
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,839
Speaker 2: Pompadour was very nice and kind to the Queen.

662
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 3: Oh, Madame Pompadour was thirsty for Queen's approval. She was

663
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 3: desperate for the Queen to like her. It's so interesting

664
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 3: because you see her handle Louis the fifteenth with the

665
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 3: just kind of a plum like it's going well. She

666
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 3: you know, she wants him to love her very very much.

667
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 3: Some of her detractors said that her sickness was because

668
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 3: keeping up an attitude of being madly in love every

669
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 3: single day is exhausting on the human body. But she

670
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 3: did love the king, but when it comes to the Queen,

671
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 3: you see her just bending over her backwards to like

672
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 3: invite the Queen to every single performance that she's having

673
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 3: at the theater, and the Queen like kind of shows

674
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 3: up sometimes.

675
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like, look, I know what's going on here.

676
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 2: I'll be a good spool.

677
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's fine. Yeah. She was always like picking out

678
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 3: special gifts for the Queen And the reason that she

679
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 3: was so nice to her was because the Queen was

680
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 3: supposed to acknowledge the royal mistress at some point, and

681
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 3: usually queens were incredibly bitchy about this.

682
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 2: I understand them.

683
00:36:55,719 --> 00:37:00,040
Speaker 3: With when Marie Antoinette met Madame du Berry, uh, she

684
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 3: had to say something to her, and she just kind

685
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 3: of snidely said, well, there are a lot of people

686
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 3: at court today.

687
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and at this time, just for context, Louis the sixteenth,

688
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 2: Marie Antoinette's husband never actually took a mistress, which is

689
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 2: why it's sometimes. I had one professor in college actually

690
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 2: couldn't get it up. Dan Well, it took it for

691
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 2: his real sexual job. But I had a professor in

692
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 2: college point out that arguably it damaged Marie Antoinette because

693
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 2: there was no other woman to serve as a lightning

694
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 2: rod for gossip and attention.

695
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 3: And Madame Pompadour was that lightning rod for this is

696
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:35,280
Speaker 3: the woman who was bankrupting friends.

697
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 2: Yes, and Madame de Berry was Louis the fifteenth's next mistresses,

698
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 2: but Marie Antoinette was just the princess. But since she

699
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 2: outranked her, Madame de Berry couldn't even say hi unless

700
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 2: Marienoinnette said something.

701
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 3: First, exactly. Yeah. So when it was Madame Pompadour's time

702
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 3: to meet Queen Marie, there was very little for them

703
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 3: to talk about because Madame Pompadour, as everybody kept pointing out,

704
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 3: was she didn't know anybody at court. What were they

705
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,760
Speaker 3: possibly going to say to each other? And the Queen

706
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 3: really nicely had one friend in common with Madame Pompadour

707
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,720
Speaker 3: and asked if Madame Pompadour had seen that friend lately,

708
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 3: because she'd seen her at court and she was wondering

709
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 3: how she was doing. And Madame Pompadour, I imagine, responded

710
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 3: about how a friend was doing, but immediately afterwards fell

711
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 3: to her knees and said that she was so grateful

712
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 3: that she had such a kind and gracious queen, that

713
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 3: she was going to do anything she could in this

714
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 3: life to make the queen happy. And she never went

715
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 3: back on this promise, and I honestly think it got

716
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 3: to be a little bit much for the queen.

717
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 2: She was the object of the unrequitted was the object

718
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 2: of the unrequited affection.

719
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 3: And it was a little uncomfortable for but that's very sweet.

720
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 2: I respect that. Madame de Pompadour is like, look, I

721
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 2: get that, this is the awkward situation.

722
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 3: I am your just so you know I loved you. Yeah,

723
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 3: just so you know you're all my performances forever, right, bestie.

724
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 2: I would write, if I had to be a French mistress,

725
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 2: I would rather be friends with the queen absolutely, Yeah,

726
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 2: makes your life so much Well, the Queen was treated.

727
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 3: Very badly by Louis the fifteenths prior mistresses, and it

728
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 3: was probably stupid on their part because you know, you

729
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 3: would think that because you're sleeping with the king and

730
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 3: he loves you, you have some advantage over this like

731
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 3: quiet religious woman who's just having children, But you don't.

732
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 2: She's seen them come and go.

733
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 3: She's seen them come and go.

734
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 2: So what happened towards the end of Madame de Pompador's.

735
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 3: Life, Oh, unfortunately, Madame Pompadour was probably very responsible for

736
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 3: the Seven Years War, which was a disastrous war. Oh no, France,

737
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 3: And it may be apocryphal, but Madame Pompadour became very

738
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 3: good friends with Austrian diplomats and sort of forged an

739
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 3: alliance between France and Austria.

740
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 2: Where's the Prime Minister things?

741
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, which led to them engaging against Britain and Prussia

742
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 3: in the Seven Years War and just getting smashed. But

743
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 3: they say that one of the reasons that she personally

744
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 3: hated Prussians was because Frederick the Great referred to his

745
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 3: dog as his Pompadour. That's mean, it is mean, it

746
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 3: is mean. So so yeah, that's not a good enough

747
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 3: reason to fortunate alize with another country and then go

748
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 3: to war. No, it doesn't end well for and it

749
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 3: does not end well for France. And then at forty two,

750
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 3: Madame Pompadour passed away of pneumonia and Louis the fifteenth

751
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 3: in that episode of Doctor who sees her carriage going

752
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 3: away in the rain, but he cannot attend his funeral.

753
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 3: And one of the things that they do not incorporate

754
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,800
Speaker 3: into that Doctor who is him turning around and showing

755
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 3: his courtiers tears streaming down his face and saying, this

756
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 3: is the only respect I am allowed to pay her.

757
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 2: Wait, he wasn't allowed to go to her funeral?

758
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,959
Speaker 3: Why rules of hers.

759
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 2: I but he's the king, you know. But she it

760
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 2: would have been an embarrassed real yeah.

761
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, but she you know, she lived out her

762
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 3: life at Versailles. I think one of the lovely things

763
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 3: is that she and Louis the fifteenth, even if you

764
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,839
Speaker 3: know he's also sleeping with younger girls towards the end

765
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 3: of their relationship, really did have this meeting of minds.

766
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 2: They were ethically non monogamous.

767
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 3: They were, I mean, like many ethically non anonymous relationships.

768
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,479
Speaker 3: It seems like the man got to be a lot

769
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 3: more ethically non monogamous than the woman, who was just

770
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 3: kind of going along with this.

771
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 2: But at least she was aware of it.

772
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 3: She was, she was definitely aware of it. There were

773
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 3: very cruel rumors at the time that she was orchestrating

774
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:56,280
Speaker 3: all of this.

775
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,800
Speaker 2: For oh yeah, that she was sort of being at madam,

776
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 2: yeah exactly, that she was procuring these young girls.

777
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 3: I don't think it was that difficult to procure.

778
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 2: Young women who wanted to sleep with the king your advantage.

779
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 3: And yes, power exactly. Yeah, but they got to have

780
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,399
Speaker 3: like these nice little dinner parties at their home. Louis

781
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 3: the fifteenth would make the coffee himself. They got to

782
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 3: talk to interesting people and she got to have this

783
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 3: very creative life where she brought a lot of art

784
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 3: and spirit to Versailles. That is what we associate with

785
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:29,280
Speaker 3: it now.

786
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 2: And I also I think I remember reading that she

787
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 2: was very interested in gardening. She was, which is such

788
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 2: a Nancy Meyer's hobby.

789
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 3: Madame Pumpter was interested in everything. I think it's also

790
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 3: one of the things that I'd like about her where

791
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:45,879
Speaker 3: I think now we live in this era of kind

792
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 3: of cool girls who were just like, like, to be

793
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 3: a sexy girl is like to never smile, and I

794
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 3: love that Madame Pumpter thing was like today, I'm going

795
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 3: to learn to be a gem cutter.

796
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 2: Honestly, if there was some girl on Instagram with a

797
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,320
Speaker 2: cool haircut who was like carving, carving gems, carving joms,

798
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 2: I'd be like, oh my god, that's so cool.

799
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

800
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 2: If you are a gem carver listening to this podcast,

801
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 2: please do you mean?

802
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:10,320
Speaker 3: I love that if you're a gem carver who's also

803
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:15,240
Speaker 3: started like a very highly ranked theater that you're forcing

804
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 3: people to perform in, and the Queen will show up

805
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 3: for sometimes if she's not busy playing her sad card game. Yeah, yeah,

806
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,760
Speaker 3: I love. The thing that was about feeling about Madame

807
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 3: Pompadour was that she did seem to have a passion

808
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 3: and an interest in everything.

809
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 2: She seems like exactly the type of person you would

810
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 2: want to invite to your parties. She seems really fun,

811
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 2: really good at parties.

812
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 3: She seems really good at parties. She seems like somebody

813
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 3: who also, maybe this is unfair, but like she's really smart. Yeah,

814
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 3: and Louis the fifteenth the nice guy. But nobody thinks

815
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:52,760
Speaker 3: that Louis the fifteenth is a genius.

816
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 2: No, I've never heard that characterization.

817
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 3: No, okay, And I love the longest relationship of his

818
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:03,360
Speaker 3: life was with this woman who was really smart, except

819
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,280
Speaker 3: for the seven years worse. She should not have gotten

820
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:06,760
Speaker 3: them into that one terrible idea.

821
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, she tried her best. So, Jennifer, where can the

822
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 2: good people find you if they want to hear more

823
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:13,800
Speaker 2: about you or anything you're writing?

824
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,879
Speaker 3: Well? I used to be on Twitter at jen ashley Wright,

825
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 3: but not really anymore. It doesn't seem like a fun

826
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 3: place to be. But you can find me on my

827
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,760
Speaker 3: website at Jenshleywright dot com, or you can buy Madame

828
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,240
Speaker 3: Miristelle in your local bookshop or on Amazon.

829
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 2: You should absolutely buy Madame Miristelle and Jennifer's other books.

830
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,879
Speaker 2: This is a personal recommendation from me, Jennifer. Thank you

831
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:37,399
Speaker 2: so much.

832
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,879
Speaker 3: Oh, this was such a pleasure. Will you come back

833
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 3: soon anytime?

834
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:41,319
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

835
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 1: Noble Blood is a production of iHeartRadio and Grim and

836
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: Mild from Aaron Manky. Noble Blood is created and hosted

837
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:06,359
Speaker 1: by me Dana Shwarts, with additional writing and researching by

838
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 1: Hannah Johnston, Hannah Zuick, Mira Hayward, Courtney Sender, and Lori Goodman.

839
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: The show is edited and produced by Noemi Griffin and

840
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 1: rima Il Kahali, with supervising producer Josh Thain and executive

841
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:26,839
Speaker 1: producers Aaron Manke, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. For more

842
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

843
00:45:32,880 --> 00:46:08,800
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.