Speaker 1: From the heart of where innovation, money and power collide
Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with
Speaker 1: Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.
Speaker 2: Live from New York. I'm Caroline Hayden. This is Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 3: Tariffs.
Speaker 2: They have come for Big Tech, the sector among the
Speaker 2: worst hit as higher duties target their Asian supply chain
Speaker 2: and investors brace for retaliation. Bloomberg spoke with Treasury Secretary
Speaker 2: Scott Lesson yesterday, who says the tech sell off is
Speaker 2: actually not a MAGA problem.
Speaker 4: In my old business, I was very concerned about market movements,
Speaker 4: and I'm trying to be a Secretary of Treasury, not
Speaker 4: a market commentator. What I would point out is that
Speaker 4: especially the nasdeck peaked on deep set day. That so
Speaker 4: that's a mag seven problem, not a MAGA problem.
Speaker 2: But today investors do think the tariffs a mag seven's problem.
Speaker 3: Let's check in on those markets.
Speaker 2: We fall hard on the NAZAT one hundred Tech underperformance.
Speaker 2: The other benchmarks, We're off by almost five percent. This
Speaker 2: is the worst day for the benchmark since twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2: We move on to those Magnificent seven players, which we're
Speaker 2: all in the red even the software services sector being
Speaker 2: hit by anticipation of what the EU levies back in
Speaker 2: terms of digital services taxes. Alphabet lower, Meta off by
Speaker 2: eight percent, Amazon off by eight point eight percent.
Speaker 3: We move on and have a look at what the
Speaker 3: hardware impact is in Vidia.
Speaker 2: Even though semiconductors are exempt from current tariffs, we anticipate
Speaker 2: further to come and retaliation.
Speaker 3: We're off by almost seven percent.
Speaker 2: Tesla wipes out seven percent, and Apple falls the hardest.
Speaker 2: We're off by almost nine percent. We are having the
Speaker 2: biggest erasion.
Speaker 3: Of mark kick cap for Apple.
Speaker 2: Ever, it's on pace for the biggest single day wipeout
Speaker 2: in the company's history, more than three hundred billion dollars
Speaker 2: in one go. Apple supply chain w was we dig
Speaker 2: into them. Blomberg's Dana Woolman is with us, Dana, why
Speaker 2: is Apple in the eye of the storm here? We
Speaker 2: thought they were diversifying out of China, but that has
Speaker 2: backfired at this moment.
Speaker 5: Yes, diversity, diversifying out of China does not mean so
Speaker 5: much in this moment, especially given that the Trump administration
Speaker 5: has just taken aim at, if not every country in
Speaker 5: the world, seemingly every country in the world, and certainly
Speaker 5: levying very high tariffs on some of the very countries
Speaker 5: where Apple thought it was making progress by diverting some
Speaker 5: of its manufacturing countries like Vietnam, Thailand, others, even Ireland,
Speaker 5: not a company necessarily think of as core to Apple
Speaker 5: supply chain. So Apple did spend years trying to reduce
Speaker 5: its dependence on China, only to have bits as the outcome.
Speaker 2: I mean a certain analyst reaction Rosenblat Securities, for example,
Speaker 2: saying this just blows up Apple's business model that you
Speaker 2: question how Trump could be targeting such an iconic company.
Speaker 2: They say, it's hard for us to imagine Trump blowing
Speaker 2: up an American icon. But at this moment it looks
Speaker 2: pretty tough. Many out there think eventually they'll get some
Speaker 2: sort of exemption. But for the here and now, it
Speaker 2: seems as though Tim Cook tried to be at the inauguration.
Speaker 2: He's promised investment in the United States, but it's not enough.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, and I would not go so far as to
Speaker 5: say this these measures were targeted at Apple, but certainly,
Speaker 5: as we can see Apple as one of the hardest hits,
Speaker 5: and as you said, Tim Cook's personal efforts to curry
Speaker 5: favor the Trump administration clearly did not yield the outcomes
Speaker 5: that her investors would have wanted or expected.
Speaker 2: Dane Woman, we thank you for the update on all
Speaker 2: things Apple, and then we turn our attentions to the
Speaker 2: services side, the software side too. France, Germany, they are
Speaker 2: pushing for a stronger response as President Trump's taris pushing
Speaker 2: for the EU to target US tech companies in particular,
Speaker 2: and Alan Katz can tell us exactly how this seems
Speaker 2: to be coming down to the digital services tax in particular.
Speaker 2: They really want to target big tech as the way
Speaker 2: forward here.
Speaker 6: Well, they do really want to target a big tech
Speaker 6: but it's actually broader than that. So Emanuel maccin is
Speaker 6: actually meeting with a whole variety of industries that are
Speaker 6: going to be affected by the tariffside meeting is happening
Speaker 6: right now, and speaking just before the meeting, he actually
Speaker 6: asked EU companies to pause all investment in the United
Speaker 6: States for the moment. So this is not just this
Speaker 6: is not tech specific, this is all companies in all
Speaker 6: sectors saying, you know, if the US is hitting us
Speaker 6: right now, how can you be investing in the United States?
Speaker 6: And you need cohesion among these sectors that are being
Speaker 6: affected by the United States. But to come back to
Speaker 6: your point about tech, the EU and more specifically France
Speaker 6: and Germany, and France, I suppose more than anyone else,
Speaker 6: really thinks that going after digital services is the way
Speaker 6: to hit the United States. Now this has come up before,
Speaker 6: It's been a fight before between Francs the United States.
Speaker 6: France does have a digital services tax on companies like
Speaker 6: Google and Amazon, which levies which makes about seven hundred
Speaker 6: million dollars a year for France's coffers, and it wants
Speaker 6: to use that or it thinks that is the way
Speaker 6: to respond the best way to respond to the US
Speaker 6: decision to Donald President Donald Trump's decision that said, it's
Speaker 6: going to be difficult to get everyone to agree. Those
Speaker 6: digital taxes that exist in Europe are pretty different country
Speaker 6: by countries, say France versus Polands, for example, are quite different,
Speaker 6: and some countries have really been very, very reluctant within
Speaker 6: Europe to impose that kind of tax. So if France
Speaker 6: getting sort of everybody on board, all twenty seven members
Speaker 6: of the EU really is a tall task.
Speaker 2: And I suppose what's interesting is Germany seems to be
Speaker 2: aligned on wanting to go hard in response. In Germany
Speaker 2: was one of the company's countries that hadn't want to
Speaker 2: align itself on this sort of a tax. Will we
Speaker 2: see big tech pull and retrench from Europe? Even willing
Speaker 2: to mentally get round that, are we going to start
Speaker 2: to see bifurcation here?
Speaker 6: That's that's not a million dollar question, that's a multi
Speaker 6: trillion dollar question. It would be impossible to say at
Speaker 6: the moment. I mean, your point is a good one, right.
Speaker 6: Germany really was pretty opposed to the idea of digital
Speaker 6: taxation before now it seems to have come around to it.
Speaker 6: Habek was quite strong, the Economy Minister was quite strong
Speaker 6: in his comments earlier today. So it does seem that
Speaker 6: Germany at least is on board with the idea. That
Speaker 6: doesn't mean again, that all other European countries will be
Speaker 6: on board. And Europe is trying to do this with
Speaker 6: more or less one voice, if not exactly one voice,
Speaker 6: because the things it will be much stronger if it
Speaker 6: responds that way. So even if France and Germany, which
Speaker 6: traditionally are the motor for the European Union, even if
Speaker 6: they agree on something, it doesn't it doesn't necessarily mean
Speaker 6: that's going to happen on the question of bifurcation. That's
Speaker 6: of course the question immediately came to me too. France
Speaker 6: has four years tried to create alternatives to you know,
Speaker 6: search engines and AI companies, and it's generally hasn't worked
Speaker 6: out because France is too small a market, and it
Speaker 6: hasn't There hasn't really been one single European market functionally
Speaker 6: for these digital services. Will that come as a result
Speaker 6: of these tariffs? That's that's It's a good question and
Speaker 6: one that many people are asking themselves. Will We really
Speaker 6: don't have an answer to that yet.
Speaker 2: And Kat's great to catch up with you. Thank you
Speaker 2: for giving us the tech nuance. I mean, while joining
Speaker 2: us now for more on the global tariff impact, Mark
Speaker 2: Mahaney ever core is I seenior managing director joining us now,
Speaker 2: and I start with retaliation. Many of the Internet names
Speaker 2: that you cover could well be in the eye of
Speaker 2: the storm if Europe does increase those digital services at
Speaker 2: taxes that they already hate.
Speaker 7: I think that's right, Caroline. I don't have any particular
Speaker 7: insight into that, but that makes logical sense to me.
Speaker 7: What I senses the way these stocks are trading today.
Speaker 7: The degree of sell off is kind of determined by
Speaker 7: retaliatory risk and recession risk. So there are companies that
Speaker 7: I look at that are just off modestly because they're
Speaker 7: perceived to have relative they're received to be relatively recessionary resilient.
Speaker 7: That's names like a Netflix or Spotify, which are inexpensive
Speaker 7: consumer subscription businesses. But at the other end are the
Speaker 7: three megacap names that I look at, Amazon, Google, and Meta,
Speaker 7: which are trading off ford to nine percent. Amazon at
Speaker 7: the top of that list because of pure terrif exposure.
Speaker 7: There's most of those products that they sell are produced, manufactured,
Speaker 7: and then exported from Asia, so there's going to be
Speaker 7: costs that Amazon's going to have to decide whether to
Speaker 7: eat or pass al on to consumers and therefore depressed demand.
Speaker 7: Meta also has this exposure to she and Timu, some
Speaker 7: of those kind of exporters retailers that got hit by
Speaker 7: the removal of the Deminimus exemption. So there's a lot
Speaker 7: of different issues in here, but retaliation and recessionary risks
Speaker 7: are sort of bifurcating some of the stock movements today.
Speaker 3: How do you foreseen this mark?
Speaker 2: Many have been surprised by the aggression shown in the
Speaker 2: reciprocal tariffs. But do we think this is knee jerk?
Speaker 2: Is this in any way a buying opportunity?
Speaker 7: Okay, then yes, I think it's a buying opportunity if
Speaker 7: you can, if you tell me that I can buy
Speaker 7: Meta at less than twenty times earnings and Google at
Speaker 7: fifteen times earnings and Amazon at twenty three times earnings.
Speaker 7: Even I know, I understand that there's going to be
Speaker 7: earnings risk from the imposition of tariffs, from a slow
Speaker 7: down economy, from a recession. You know, you're talking about
Speaker 7: mid single digit percent earnings growth you step in and
Speaker 7: take on a full position today? Absolutely not, But like
Speaker 7: at these levels, yeah, this is you know, I hunt
Speaker 7: for what I call d HQ's, dislocated high quality companies. Look,
Speaker 7: we had a two and a half year bullmarket, uper
Speaker 7: bowl market and tech stocks, particularly in some of these
Speaker 7: internet stocks that went through the end of last year.
Speaker 7: Here's your negative catalyst, and you know, you now got it.
Speaker 7: You didn't have any real dhq's at the beginning of
Speaker 7: the year, but now you do, And so you want
Speaker 7: to step in on the highest quality names when they're
Speaker 7: trading at trough multiples. So yeah, I think you want
Speaker 7: to be picking away at these. I think what you
Speaker 7: have to also be very cognizant of is there's going
Speaker 7: to this terrify is she is going to play out
Speaker 7: for a while with retaliations, so you can get all
Speaker 7: that volatility. Then you've got increasing risk of recession. So
Speaker 7: you're going to have to be careful about those estimates
Speaker 7: and they're going to come down you know, probably mid
Speaker 7: singles dit you percent again in a modest recessionary environment.
Speaker 7: But with these kinds of multiples, Yeah, you want to
Speaker 7: start picking away at them.
Speaker 3: Could you in the next earning season.
Speaker 2: As soon as that see a retrenchment in purchasing of
Speaker 2: it right now?
Speaker 7: See we see that in the earning season. I think
Speaker 7: most of these companies are going to be we're just
Speaker 7: finishing up our previews now, or most of these companies
Speaker 7: are going to be reporting reasonably solid March quarter results.
Speaker 7: My guess is that what's going to be consistent across
Speaker 7: almost all these tech earnings is cautious commentary about end
Speaker 7: market demand for the June quarter, and therefore you're going
Speaker 7: to see cautious guidance that's in life with her below
Speaker 7: the street for most of these estimates. The only silver
Speaker 7: lining here is currency, which was a massive which looked
Speaker 7: to be a massive headwind for the year, doesn't look
Speaker 7: like it's going to be as much of a headwind
Speaker 7: as thoughts, So there's a little bit of help there.
Speaker 7: But at the whole, I think the March quarter results,
Speaker 7: I think we're going to be fine. I think there's
Speaker 7: just the guidance is just going to be cautious about
Speaker 7: the June quarter. So I don't think there's any particular
Speaker 7: reason for the stocks to trade up on the upcoming prints.
Speaker 2: You can totally understand why enterprises would just slow down
Speaker 2: their commitment to spend on some of your names and
Speaker 2: some of the technology that they sell.
Speaker 3: What about the AI trade, though.
Speaker 2: Mark it does affect some of your names like Meta,
Speaker 2: like Amazon.
Speaker 3: Does the wind come out of the sales there too?
Speaker 7: I think it has been coming out. I saw that
Speaker 7: Treasury Secondary's comments about deep seek being one of the
Speaker 7: key factors behind the mag seven trade on wine. I
Speaker 7: think there's some truth to that now. I think there's
Speaker 7: also policy that's just been just as much, probably more
Speaker 7: of a factor in the in the in the in
Speaker 7: the market sell off and then the mag seven unwind
Speaker 7: the AI trade. I don't think these companies are going
Speaker 7: to be slowing down their AI capex anytime soon, and
Speaker 7: I think we're going to see more and more evidence
Speaker 7: that they're getting a return on that. On that, you know,
Speaker 7: we're going to get a lot of these good productivity
Speaker 7: data points. Google is telling you twenty five percent of
Speaker 7: their code now is being generated by AI, which means
Speaker 7: that their programmer headcount is probably going to be flat
Speaker 7: for a couple of years. Amazon telling you that they
Speaker 7: have twenty five percent lower cost to serve in their
Speaker 7: most advanced automated distribution centers. That's a massive efficiency gain
Speaker 7: for a name like Amazon. So I think that's going
Speaker 7: to come through in terms of margins. The question is
Speaker 7: what's happening to demand and is that going to depress
Speaker 7: the margin expansion we would normally expect from the AI trade.
Speaker 7: That's the big unknown to me. But I don't think
Speaker 7: these companies are going to slow down their AI expenses.
Speaker 2: Mark as someone who is every day having to respond
Speaker 2: to the headlines that we're.
Speaker 3: Going to get, many feel that you will come there'll
Speaker 3: be carve outs.
Speaker 2: Potentially Nearly every analyst anticipating that for Apple, for example,
Speaker 2: with your names, how are you going to keep abreast
Speaker 2: of how this changes, how we see other countries respond
Speaker 2: and try and carve out certain names, or at least
Speaker 2: will try and curry favor with the administration.
Speaker 7: Well, I think I'm going to focus. I mean the
Speaker 7: sector I look at Internet sector has very little direct
Speaker 7: terrific exposure except for you know, the retailers like particularly Amazon.
Speaker 7: It's really kind of the indirect exposure. What impact the
Speaker 7: terriffs have on consumer confidence and on consumer spend and
Speaker 7: so then what you really want to do is look
Speaker 7: at the stocks that I look at, and I kind
Speaker 7: of put it together a recessionary spectrum, like who's the
Speaker 7: most recessionary resistant, who's the most recessionary exposed? And you know,
Speaker 7: I think names like Netflix and Spotify are the least
Speaker 7: recession they are the most recessionary resistant. That's why they're
Speaker 7: trading off better today. They'll hold up better. The stocks
Speaker 7: have here todayta actually outperform the market materially. You're to
Speaker 7: date because of this, PODi.
Speaker 2: Spify for example, Mark just to jump in a Shopif
Speaker 2: I would be on the other end of that, yes.
Speaker 7: It would be and so with the travel names too,
Speaker 7: your Bookings, your expedias, your Airbnb, the kind of discrete
Speaker 7: consumer discretionary spends also advertising names with a lot of
Speaker 7: exposure to brand advertising. Brand advertising always gets cut before
Speaker 7: performance marketing. So that's why I particularly find Meta very
Speaker 7: intriguing here. You brought it down to a very attractive
Speaker 7: price point. It's the largest performance marketing platform out there
Speaker 7: that isn't called Google, and I think it actually will
Speaker 7: hold up fundamentally better than most assets. So that's why
Speaker 7: I'd be chipping away at the stock here.
Speaker 3: Mart mahoney with news you can use. We thank you
Speaker 3: so much.
Speaker 2: Ever caught ISI coming up, will take a look at
Speaker 2: how the twenty five percent auto tariff is going to
Speaker 2: be impacting the electric vehicle market.
Speaker 3: This is blue meg technology.
Speaker 2: Now let's take a look at how tariffs from the
Speaker 2: auto industry. That's Trump's twenty five percent tariff on the
Speaker 2: US imports is already taking effect, expected to increase costs
Speaker 2: and disrupt industry supply chains from most Credudell joins US.
Speaker 2: Now these aren't promises, these are delivered. And how much
Speaker 2: we already seeing auto sector and EV's respond to it.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think we will see significant disruptions to supply chains.
Speaker 8: I think that is part of why you're seeing some
Speaker 8: of these stocks trade down. I think you're also likely
Speaker 8: going to see some of these companies caught up in retaliation,
Speaker 8: you know, potentially in the in the days and weeks
Speaker 8: to come. We haven't necessarily seen that, you know, from
Speaker 8: countries that are newly you know, newly facing higher tariffs
Speaker 8: from the Trump administration. But we did get at least
Speaker 8: a whiff of that already with you know, Canada, for instance,
Speaker 8: kind of taking aim at Elon Musk's companies as a
Speaker 8: result of the tariffs that do you is put on
Speaker 8: Canada and Mexico in the last few weeks.
Speaker 2: So yeah, go there for us because Tesla is down hard,
Speaker 2: even though many would anticipate, look, it makes more of
Speaker 2: its cars here in the United States should be less exposed.
Speaker 2: But you think it's a retaliation trade here, I.
Speaker 8: Think retaliation is likely something that the market would be,
Speaker 8: you know, concerned about. I do wonder too looking at
Speaker 8: Tesla's shares. You know, they really were down quite a
Speaker 8: bit yesterday. They had this you know, really furious rally
Speaker 8: and response to this report by Politico that maybe Musk
Speaker 8: would be looking to exit his roles in you know,
Speaker 8: advising the Trump administration. And I think you know, not
Speaker 8: only did the White House Press Secretary and Musk himself,
Speaker 8: you know, sort of knock that down, but you heard
Speaker 8: jd Vance today, you know, come out and say that,
Speaker 8: you know, he will continue to kind of have our
Speaker 8: ear even after he you know, officially leaves. And so
Speaker 8: this notion that that that TESLA is you know, going
Speaker 8: to make a clean break from this situation where it's
Speaker 8: CEO so closely tied to the Trump administration just seems
Speaker 8: pretty misguided.
Speaker 7: I think the one other thing I would.
Speaker 8: Point out is, you know, Tesla likes to and you
Speaker 8: know rightfully so likes to to tout you know how
Speaker 8: you know US you know, made in America, it's its
Speaker 8: cars are. But in order to rely on this parts
Speaker 8: content to you know, share that data with folks, it
Speaker 8: relies on US government data that loops in US and
Speaker 8: Canadian parts content. So you know, that just speaks to
Speaker 8: this notion that I think, you know, for decades we've
Speaker 8: sort of thought of, you know, what happens in Canada
Speaker 8: and what happens in the US. It's sort of one
Speaker 8: and the same in this you know automotive supply chain,
Speaker 8: and you know for us to move to this you
Speaker 8: know new paradigm where that's no longer the case is
Speaker 8: really disruptive to everybody, even companies that make all their
Speaker 8: vehicles in the US.
Speaker 2: Really thoughtfully put crejd ow thank you. Let's get more
Speaker 2: for you on auto tariffs how they could impact electric
Speaker 2: vehicles in particular.
Speaker 3: John Desusar is.
Speaker 2: With US co founder and president of Ample, which is
Speaker 2: working to accelerate the transition to electric mobility. And what's
Speaker 2: so interesting about you is you basically offer to swap
Speaker 2: out the actual batteries to make charging that much swifter
Speaker 2: and cleaner. But John, you've made real inroads into building
Speaker 2: in America. How is this going to back far for
Speaker 2: you with tariffs?
Speaker 9: So as you look at the tariffs, there are actually
Speaker 9: three things that you need to look at. One is
Speaker 9: where do you go through and produce it whereo factories.
Speaker 9: The second thing is where you get your materials from,
Speaker 9: and the third is what you do to finnshurds.
Speaker 7: So I think we were ahead of the curve. We
Speaker 7: do all of our production in the US in California.
Speaker 7: We have our factories there.
Speaker 9: The two other parts though, one is where do you
Speaker 9: get the goods When you don't have the capacity or
Speaker 9: you don't have the necessary skill set domestically to go
Speaker 9: through and form itt you buy those things from abroad.
Speaker 9: So the tariff for us, that means everything we bring
Speaker 9: into this country, we need to go pray tariffs on
Speaker 9: it because we're doing all our production in the US.
Speaker 9: The last part of it is once you produce it,
Speaker 9: we export, and export helps our trade surplus. But I
Speaker 9: think part of the tariffs has this new provision and
Speaker 9: where it takes back duty drawbacks. Duty drawbacks says you
Speaker 9: get your tariffs back, so you paid the trattfs when
Speaker 9: you bring it in, but when you explot.
Speaker 7: It you get it back. If you take that back
Speaker 7: or if.
Speaker 9: You take it away, it makes you goods exceedingly expensive
Speaker 9: and uncompetitive. So I think as we think about the
Speaker 9: full cycle, it's important to look at all three components.
Speaker 9: We are doing all the production in the US, but
Speaker 9: the tariff sitters on two paths. The stuff that we
Speaker 9: buy in and then when we send stuff off you
Speaker 9: don't get any full stars back.
Speaker 3: How hard does this make your decision making is uncertainty.
Speaker 9: I think there are three things, and I think what
Speaker 9: COVID shows is that the full supply chain is very complicated.
Speaker 9: So the three things that I think make it difficult
Speaker 9: is one is the number the number of different tariffs
Speaker 9: that are coming out there. They're also complicated. Second is
Speaker 9: the speed at which they come out and change, and
Speaker 9: I think the third is the speed at which they
Speaker 9: are implemented. So supply chains have a very long life cycle,
Speaker 9: so it's hard to go through and change it quickly.
Speaker 9: So think where the difficulty comes when you put those together.
Speaker 9: We try to make long term decisions on our supply chain,
Speaker 9: but with the speed at which come out change and
Speaker 9: then you don't have the time to react, it puts
Speaker 9: a lot of stress, especially on smaller companies, and I
Speaker 9: feel it what we should do is is help the
Speaker 9: smaller companies through this because it's for the US is
Speaker 9: known for the innovation, the stuff we create, and I
Speaker 9: think it's exceedingly burdensome for small companies like ours.
Speaker 2: John briefly, will the longer term impact be for you
Speaker 2: to make even more in the US. You have optimism
Speaker 2: that you'll be able to get the skilled labor, you'll
Speaker 2: be able to get well, some of the rare earth
Speaker 2: minerals you need right here in the US, or you're
Speaker 2: always going to be exposed three three thirty seconds.
Speaker 9: So I believe that we can produce in the US,
Speaker 9: but we need the time to be able to do it.
Speaker 9: So given enough time, I think we can keep on
Speaker 9: bringing it here.
Speaker 3: But if you do it.
Speaker 9: Very quickly, many companies will not survive that time.
Speaker 7: To be able to do it.
Speaker 9: So I think we just need to have a partnership
Speaker 9: with the government to make sure that we're working in
Speaker 9: concert to make sure we can get your goals, which
Speaker 9: I think the goals are really important to produce in
Speaker 9: the US and the increase our exports.
Speaker 2: John Deer susan really great to speak with your co
Speaker 2: founder and president of AMPLE.
Speaker 3: We thank you.
Speaker 2: Microsoft has pulled back on data center projects around the
Speaker 2: world's sources say, suggesting that the company is taking a
Speaker 2: harder look at its plans to build the server farms
Speaker 2: powering AI and the cloud. Microsoft shares now they're down,
Speaker 2: as you can see, eleven percent this year. Those concerns
Speaker 2: of an AI infrastructure bubble. They've been weighing on global
Speaker 2: tech stocks in recent weeks, especially in video, which sucks
Speaker 2: up a significant share of data center budgets, of course,
Speaker 2: but as we had to break, let's just take a
Speaker 2: look at in Video and all the other big tech
Speaker 2: names which are under significant duress today. We think about
Speaker 2: the knock on effects of tariffs, about the exposure of
Speaker 2: countries that many of them have donevers fight away from
Speaker 2: China into and that is why even with an carve
Speaker 2: out for semiconductors, the semiconductor indexes off by eight percent,
Speaker 2: we worry about retaliation coming from these countries.
Speaker 3: In Video off by six percent.
Speaker 2: Move on and have a look at what's happening more broadly,
Speaker 2: is then, as that one hundred has its worst day
Speaker 2: since twenty twenty two, Apple or having its single biggest
Speaker 2: market cap sell off, will almost three hundred billion dollars
Speaker 2: wiped off of Apple in one single training day, as
Speaker 2: we worry about the exposure to Asia, to Vietnam, not
Speaker 2: just China, and what reciprocal nature from other companies and
Speaker 2: countries will mean. From New York, this is Bloomberg Technology,
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Bluemberg Technology and Caroline hired in New York.
Speaker 2: A quick check on these markets which are well and
Speaker 2: truly in the red We're off five five percent, almost
Speaker 2: on the nast that one hundred worst days.
Speaker 3: Since twenty twenty two be drill.
Speaker 2: Into individual moves of certain players within Magnificent seven, in
Speaker 2: particular because the big tech tariffs have come for mag seven,
Speaker 2: Meta having its worst day in a year since April
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. We're down by seven percent. This iss
Speaker 2: Wei what the EU response might be. Could it be
Speaker 2: a higher digital services taxes is going to effect Meta?
Speaker 2: Amazon off by eight percent as it's in the eye
Speaker 2: of the storm when it comes to commerce, even though
Speaker 2: the Dominimus ruling being removed from Chinese competitors not enough
Speaker 2: to help the stock. We're off by eight percent again,
Speaker 2: the worse since twenty twenty four August of that year. Meanwhile,
Speaker 2: President Trump's tariffs entirely have the markets on edge global
Speaker 2: stocks selling off as well. But US Treasury Sectory Scott
Speaker 2: Bessence says the equity plument in the Magnificent seven is
Speaker 2: a Magnificent seven problem, It's not a MAGA problem. Let's
Speaker 2: get into that with Bloomberg's round Vlastelica. Really interesting from
Speaker 2: Scott Besson that he's saying, look, we peaked in tech
Speaker 2: back when deep Sea happened, it's been a sell off
Speaker 2: since then. It is not because of our tariff policy,
Speaker 2: but today it feels like it is Magnificent Seven's problem.
Speaker 3: These tariffs.
Speaker 10: Absolutely, I would say that tarifs are one hundred percent
Speaker 10: driving to move lower today. A lot of the Magnificent
Speaker 10: seven companies, notably Apple, notably Nvidia, a lot of chip makers,
Speaker 10: they have a ton of manufacturing out of China, out
Speaker 10: of Vietnam, out of Taiwan, countries that were really hit
Speaker 10: with some a lot with tarifs that were a lot
Speaker 10: higher than some people were expecting. So they are now
Speaker 10: facing a really rough decision, assuming they don't get any
Speaker 10: kind of exemption or there's no change in policy. Either
Speaker 10: they're going to have to raise prices, which would hurt demand,
Speaker 10: or they're going to have to absorb higher costs, which
Speaker 10: is going to hurt profitability. It's obviously a not a
Speaker 10: great position for them to be in.
Speaker 2: Not a great position, such a bad position. Ryan, that
Speaker 2: you brought a quote to your story You've assessed to
Speaker 2: some of the analyst reactions. Rosenblat is the one that
Speaker 2: took my attention, and I'll repeat it that they're saying
Speaker 2: that this basically is blows up Apple in many ways,
Speaker 2: and it's hard for us to imagine Trump blowing up
Speaker 2: an American icon. It does feel like a lot of
Speaker 2: analysts out there think there might be exemptions going forward.
Speaker 10: We did see that during the first Trump administration. I
Speaker 10: wouldn't say that the terror policy there were anything nearly
Speaker 10: as aggressive as we're seeing today. So far, we haven't
Speaker 10: seen any real indication that there will be an exemption.
Speaker 10: But a lot of these companies have been working, you know,
Speaker 10: probably behind the scenes first and foremost, trying to get
Speaker 10: some kind of exemption. We saw, you know, Zuckerberg was
Speaker 10: at the White House, I believe it was yesterday looking
Speaker 10: for you know, help with the anti trust stuff.
Speaker 7: So I it.
Speaker 10: You know, obviously they're hoping for something, but so far
Speaker 10: we haven't seen anything yet, and I think the longer
Speaker 10: we have to wait, or until there's clarity one way
Speaker 10: or the other, I think we're going to continue to
Speaker 10: see a lot of uncertainty in markets.
Speaker 2: There's an inauguration, seats not paying off stuffs. Far run Vastelica.
Speaker 2: We thank you very much. Now let's get more on
Speaker 2: the markets. Janet mue is with US obviously ruined Dolphin
Speaker 2: head of market analysis, risk Off just everywhere you turn,
Speaker 2: is that the right move?
Speaker 11: I have Carolin, thanks for having me.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 11: Unfortunately, we're in the eye of the storm and we're
Speaker 11: entering a period of significant uncertainty and risk of periods.
Speaker 11: I think the thing is there's still likely to be
Speaker 11: a retaliation going forward, and I think Marqus actually am
Speaker 11: enterprising in more severe economic slow down and more you know,
Speaker 11: behavioral response from companies, which is likely to be a
Speaker 11: freeze in investment and lower hiring, etc. So I would
Speaker 11: say the path down here is likely to be volatile
Speaker 11: and also very bumpy and more likely tutor to the downside.
Speaker 2: Janet, just focusing in on what you just said. You
Speaker 2: think there's more downside to come. You think that we
Speaker 2: haven't priced in enough the retaliation already. We get France
Speaker 2: Germany looking at saying they're not going to invest as
Speaker 2: much in the US, in particular Macron asking French companies
Speaker 2: not to invest in the United States.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think the problem is that.
Speaker 11: I think there's still so much uncertainty. We never really
Speaker 11: had this sort of high tariffs going on that is
Speaker 11: blanket across the globe. In the modern ages. So this
Speaker 11: is like uncharted territory we're talking about here. And I
Speaker 11: think the most significant area that is affectedly is the
Speaker 11: Asian nations that have deeply and better supply chains, and
Speaker 11: you know, multinationals over the past decades have been investing
Speaker 11: heavily in the China and the China plus one branch
Speaker 11: sharing strategy, and that is being appenticed at the moment.
Speaker 11: So huge uncertainty, huge changes to the trade flow and
Speaker 11: cost structures, and huge compression to margins potentially if this
Speaker 11: go on for a longer time. I think what I
Speaker 11: worry about is really the portfolio flows going forward, which
Speaker 11: you know and overseas investors contemplate whether they should continue
Speaker 11: to reduce that US exposure, and you know, it could
Speaker 11: be going on for more sustained period of time.
Speaker 2: What still needs to go on for a sustained period
Speaker 2: of time is clarity with semiconductors. There's a carve out
Speaker 2: for semis from this particular round of tariffs, but there's
Speaker 2: ongoing discussion around support for building here in the United States.
Speaker 2: As the chip SAT gets reworked. How many more shoes
Speaker 2: to drop O are there in the semi space?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 11: Again, I think it's the really complex supply chain we're
Speaker 11: talking about here. There's just so much uncertainty and I think,
Speaker 11: you know, TSMC has already pledged over one hundred billion
Speaker 11: dollars of investment. But again Taiwan is being hit with
Speaker 11: thirty four percent of TARRAF. But it seems it's just
Speaker 11: you know, not not much as certainty and potential room
Speaker 11: for negotiation. So I think it is just very bad
Speaker 11: for the center, which is a highly complex of supply
Speaker 11: chain related. I mean, what we'll have to see. But
Speaker 11: ultimately this is going to increase costs for a lot
Speaker 11: of the foundaries semiconductor companies in the States, right, So
Speaker 11: I think this is not a great outcome.
Speaker 4: It's all the situation.
Speaker 2: Janet, mean, we have to leave it there, thank you
Speaker 2: so much. Obviously bruin Dolphin header market analysis. We now
Speaker 2: have to move over to Ottawa where the leader Karne
Speaker 2: is speaking. Take a listeners, we articulate its potentially his retaliation.
Speaker 12: At the same time, President Trump confirmed that the terroriffts
Speaker 12: announced last week against our auto industry will come in
Speaker 12: and indeed have come into effect today. So while it's
Speaker 12: progress that further tariffs were not imposed on Canada yesterday.
Speaker 12: The President's actions will reverberate here in Canada and across
Speaker 12: the world. Three sets, three different sets of US tariffs
Speaker 12: remain in place and will continue to pose significant threats
Speaker 12: to Canadian workers and Canadian businesses. And while they have
Speaker 12: been imposed under different premises, some things are consistent. They
Speaker 12: are all unjustified, unwarranted, and in our judgment, misguided, and
Speaker 12: we are already seeing the consequences. Just last evening, workers
Speaker 12: from unifour Local four four four, with whom I met
Speaker 12: last week, learned that their auto assembly plant in wis
Speaker 12: Win will be shutting down for at least the next
Speaker 12: two weeks.
Speaker 7: That's three thy six hundred.
Speaker 12: Workers who are now out of work by their choice,
Speaker 12: workers who now worry how they're going to put food
Speaker 12: on the table and pay their bills.
Speaker 7: I and my government stand in solidarity.
Speaker 12: With those workers in Windsor and all those workers hurt
Speaker 12: by President Trump's tariffs. And that's why we committed from
Speaker 12: the very start that all and I repeat all of
Speaker 12: our terror proceeds will go to protect workers affected by
Speaker 12: the tariffs.
Speaker 7: They plum me serhif.
Speaker 2: Canadian Prime Minister Mark Connie there speaking regarding the US
Speaker 2: tariffs the impact being had on his country. You can
Speaker 2: watch much more on Live Go if you have a
Speaker 2: terminal President Trump's new tariff where they are sending shockwaves
Speaker 2: across global markets, sparking a trade What is both China
Speaker 2: and the eu' out to retaliate. Canada just now saying
Speaker 2: they will match US taris on passenger vehicles. Most end
Speaker 2: the current joins US. Now, your economic expertise is so valuable,
Speaker 2: so too is your experience in Asia. This has come
Speaker 2: as a surprise, particularly for the countries other than China.
Speaker 13: Yeah, I think it's certainly up at the worst case
Speaker 13: if I'm beyond the worst case Scenaric Harlan. There's been
Speaker 13: a hammer blow to China to begin with. You know,
Speaker 13: you're talking about tarifrd's there of around sixty seven percent
Speaker 13: according to Bloomberg Economics as of next week, across all goods.
Speaker 13: That's going to both hurt Chinese economic growth maybe take
Speaker 13: one to two percentage points of growth there, and really
Speaker 13: hammered the volume of exports out of China to the
Speaker 13: US maybe by as much as eighty percent. That then,
Speaker 13: by extension, if that's happening in China, that's also going
Speaker 13: to spill over to the rest of the region. In particular,
Speaker 13: you have Southeast Age looking very exposed, Vietnam, Cambodia, also
Speaker 13: Bangladesh among those now facing very high tower freights on
Speaker 13: the goods that they do ship to the US. Remember,
Speaker 13: some of these economies had become very important in recent
Speaker 13: years as kind of connector economies between the US and Asia.
Speaker 13: So certainly a hammer blow coming from both exports and
Speaker 13: growth in that part of the world.
Speaker 2: And a hammer blow for US giants that have relocated
Speaker 2: a lot of their production from China into Thailand, into Vietnam,
Speaker 2: into Malaysia.
Speaker 3: Top of mind for US is of course apple.
Speaker 2: But how much are these countries now going to have
Speaker 2: to worry that that foreign direct investment pulls away?
Speaker 7: Well, that's right.
Speaker 13: These economies had emerge as something of connector economies we
Speaker 13: like to call them here, as you mentioned call in
Speaker 13: your Vietnams in Southeast Asia, a lot of companies moved
Speaker 13: there to get out of the tariff drag net in
Speaker 13: hope they could still produce cheaply in Asian sell into
Speaker 13: the US. Will see that model is now under severe scrutiny.
Speaker 13: The question, of course becomes two things. A. Do these
Speaker 13: governments retaliate and the trade war worsens, or do they
Speaker 13: negotiate and those president Trump comes to the table and
Speaker 13: reach some kind of agreement whereby the tariffs are reduced. Now,
Speaker 13: a lot of observers are saying in all framp on,
Speaker 13: this won't be so simple. It's unlikely the tariffs will
Speaker 13: go back to zero, given the kind of ideological outlook
Speaker 13: that President Trump has bringing to this. But nonetheless, the
Speaker 13: benign take is these could be negotiated away. If not,
Speaker 13: then to your point, companies are going to have to
Speaker 13: pace face again very expensive decisions on their supply chains.
Speaker 2: Even those areas that you think might be a little
Speaker 2: bit more protected. For example, Chinese internet giants, which are
Speaker 2: very focused on their home domestic consumer, well, if their
Speaker 2: consumer is hurt, they from knock on will be hurt
Speaker 2: a little bit. But talk us through the deminimus impact
Speaker 2: as well, because that too is another announcement from President Trump.
Speaker 3: He's ending the.
Speaker 2: Ability for Chinese chants to ship cheaply.
Speaker 3: To the US.
Speaker 13: Yes, this is an important announcement in a self law
Speaker 13: by the significance of all the other news. But like
Speaker 13: the likes of Shine and Temu Caroline. The bottom line is,
Speaker 13: currently you can buy in goods on these e commerce
Speaker 13: platforms from China without paying a tariff on it up
Speaker 13: until a threshold of eight hundred dollars, and that's been
Speaker 13: very popular with households. There's literature that says, especially popular
Speaker 13: with lower income households buying goods from China at a
Speaker 13: cheaper costs than they would get here. Now the new
Speaker 13: rule will take away that threshold, will bring it down
Speaker 13: to zero, so you'll have to put pay the tariff
Speaker 13: on all the goods coming in from China. And that
Speaker 13: will both have obviously a specific company impact in terms
Speaker 13: of those e commerce platforms who are lying that business model.
Speaker 13: That's one, but two will also impact the course to
Speaker 13: consumers here who've been buying those goods at a cheaper price. Now, again,
Speaker 13: the Trump administration says this is necessary, it's all about
Speaker 13: driving investment, creating more manufacturing at home, and creating jobs
Speaker 13: at home in the US.
Speaker 7: But near term, e columns are saying.
Speaker 13: That at the very least, there's going to be prices
Speaker 13: going up for consumers.
Speaker 2: And to Karen, thank you so much much for that
Speaker 2: deep dive. Let's talk more about the consumer impact. Verizon,
Speaker 2: in fact, has just announced an offer for a three
Speaker 2: year price lock free phone trade in as it tries
Speaker 2: to win customers in a facely competitive wireless market, and
Speaker 2: of course when they're experiencing inflation somewhere. And Nrian Sampath
Speaker 2: is the CEO of Verizon's consumer business, joining us now
Speaker 2: on the back of these announcements and just having changed
Speaker 2: the timeline on this because of a consumer that is
Speaker 2: currently facing a lot of inflationary headwinds.
Speaker 14: Calin we've over the last three or four quarters, we've
Speaker 14: been listening to our customers and they're telling us two
Speaker 14: things pretty consistently. The first thing is they want price certainty.
Speaker 14: There's so much uncertainty in their lives, but on the
Speaker 14: category that they love most, which is connectivity, they want
Speaker 14: price certainty. The second thing is flexibility. No one wants
Speaker 14: to pay for things they don't use. So a combination
Speaker 14: of those two made us get to this point where
Speaker 14: we have this really incredible value prop for our customer.
Speaker 14: And this was always in our plan. You know, we
Speaker 14: have a sustained turnaround start for the consumer group, and
Speaker 14: this was always in our plans to do it right.
Speaker 3: Now, the investors like it.
Speaker 2: Shares push higher on the news of this focus, But
Speaker 2: tell us about the costs you incur because of that.
Speaker 2: If I'm suddenly able to trade in my phone no
Speaker 2: matter what the damage and get a new one for free,
Speaker 2: if I'm able to lock in prices, how do you
Speaker 2: bear that from a cost perspective.
Speaker 14: Look, largely, we are an American company. We have almost
Speaker 14: no export revenue. We are an American company. We you know,
Speaker 14: we rely on America for all our revenues, So we're
Speaker 14: very comfortable with that second thing on costs. Look, we
Speaker 14: work with our partners on this. You know, we work
Speaker 14: with handset partners, we work at the suppliers, so we
Speaker 14: will work to mitigate a lot of the risk on
Speaker 14: the inflationary pressure that we get. But more importantly, we
Speaker 14: want to offer customers something they really like and love,
Speaker 14: and we want to take away uncertainty in their life,
Speaker 14: at least in the category that we are involved in.
Speaker 2: I'm really interested in your working with the partners. We
Speaker 2: are looking today at Apple, which Rosenblat Securities are saying,
Speaker 2: this is going to blow up their entire business model
Speaker 2: if they can't are exposed to the sort of tariffs
Speaker 2: you're getting from China imposed on Vietnam and where India
Speaker 2: as well. Do you think Apple will have any more
Speaker 2: pressure to increase the prices on their phones?
Speaker 3: And how do you respond?
Speaker 14: Look, we had a big partner to Apple. It's a
Speaker 14: great relationship and you put the best network together with
Speaker 14: a great handset, you know, it creates a really good
Speaker 14: value prop for customers. You know, last year we had
Speaker 14: said that, you know, our upgrade rate, which is code
Speaker 14: for how long people keep the handsets, is probably reached
Speaker 14: its highest point in twenty twenty four, and in twenty
Speaker 14: twenty five you're going to see that dropping people keep
Speaker 14: the handsets for a little over forty months. Right now,
Speaker 14: we think in twenty twenty five we're going to see
Speaker 14: that number fall a little bit. So the low point
Speaker 14: was last year, and we'll work with them to mitigate
Speaker 14: all the price and other risks that we have in
Speaker 14: the piece. But we do think there's going to be
Speaker 14: a slightly higher upgrade rate in twenty five compared to
Speaker 14: twenty twenty four, and a lot of that has to
Speaker 14: do with how well we work with our partners.
Speaker 2: Samav I'm going to go to your experience here because
Speaker 2: you have such a long tenure as a management consultant,
Speaker 2: then when around the enterprise business side of Arizon before
Speaker 2: moving to the consumer side, as just someone looking at
Speaker 2: the market right now, do you have optimism that you'll
Speaker 2: be able to have resiliency for those businesses that you
Speaker 2: serve and indeed the consumers that you serve at this time.
Speaker 14: Look, we think so because part has to do with
Speaker 14: our category. You know, we provide connectivity, we provide resiliency,
Speaker 14: We provide cybersecurity both to our business customers and to
Speaker 14: retail customers everywhere. This is a core category. I mean,
Speaker 14: this is a category people don't have a much choice.
Speaker 14: They're going to have to rely on the best offer
Speaker 14: they have and that's with Verizon for.
Speaker 7: The last part.
Speaker 14: So I do think it creates a very resilient business
Speaker 14: model for us.
Speaker 7: But you're going to.
Speaker 14: See our customers having to zig and zag a lot more,
Speaker 14: having to mitigate risks, be more flexible where they can
Speaker 14: and supply chain and other pieces. But as far as
Speaker 14: our category is concerned, we see a lot of resiliency in.
Speaker 3: That and investors like it.
Speaker 2: They're coming into you because you're deemed haven in this trade.
Speaker 2: But very briefly, some have what about your willingness to
Speaker 2: invest in your business right now, particularly around AI and
Speaker 2: more data revenueded, Have you got the certainty to do that?
Speaker 7: Definitely.
Speaker 14: Look, we play a long game here, you know, whether
Speaker 14: it's investment in our spectrum, it's investment in fiber, whether
Speaker 14: it's investment in AI. Those are big three themes for
Speaker 14: us where we make really long term investments, and they're
Speaker 14: using a I'll give you a sense for this current announcement.
Speaker 14: You know, we have hundreds of thousands of our customers
Speaker 14: who call us every single day. We now using generative AI,
Speaker 14: are able to capture every morning at nine am, I
Speaker 14: get a report that tells me exactly what the sentiment
Speaker 14: was yesterday from our customers. We use that in real
Speaker 14: time to make decisions. So I think it's part of
Speaker 14: our operating model, and we want to be the world's
Speaker 14: best AI applied company. So we are very comfortable with
Speaker 14: our investment profile and long term status for that.
Speaker 2: Somehow, it's always great to catch up with you. Thank
Speaker 2: you very much, Verizon's consumer CEO. There currently seeing market
Speaker 2: sell off in response to tariff's announced yesterday by the
Speaker 2: White House. Much more aggressive than many and thought, particularly
Speaker 2: facing Asian nations. We therefore see tech fool hard four
Speaker 2: and a half percent. Now's that one hundred having its
Speaker 2: worst day since September thirteenth, twenty twenty two. Bitcoin another
Speaker 2: risk sentiment for off by almost five percent eight hundred
Speaker 2: and sixty eight is where we trade. Let's get you
Speaker 2: to another story geopolitical in nature and one that might
Speaker 2: be embroiled in taris in some way. TikTok owner Byte
Speaker 2: Dance set to be hit by a privacy fine of
Speaker 2: close to five hundred and fifty five million dollars for
Speaker 2: I legally shipping European users data to China.
Speaker 3: This adds to the.
Speaker 2: Growing global backlash over the video sharing app. This is
Speaker 2: the app, of course, faces potential ban here in the
Speaker 2: United States on Saturday, Blue Mergs Kurt Wagner can piece
Speaker 2: it all together for US. First that EU find basically
Speaker 2: they're taking issue with exactly what the US has been
Speaker 2: fearing for a long while.
Speaker 15: This is the concern, and this is the driver of
Speaker 15: this band that you mentioned, Caroline, which is that can
Speaker 15: the US government do they feel that they can trust
Speaker 15: TikTok and parent company by Dance to handle American user data. Appropriately,
Speaker 15: when you see headlines and stories like this, it just
Speaker 15: adds fuel to that fire of, you know, the idea
Speaker 15: that this company can't be trusted, and that's what we
Speaker 15: saw elected officials vote for last year when they passed
Speaker 15: this law that will ban the app on Saturday unless
Speaker 15: there's a deal struck. So I think this is the
Speaker 15: kind of thing people were worried about.
Speaker 2: If there's a deal struck, are though suddenly that has accelerated.
Speaker 2: Talk to us about the Amazon offer, whether it's a
Speaker 2: real one, and what's going on with jd Vance in particular.
Speaker 15: Yeah, everyone's sort of coming out of the woodwork at
Speaker 15: the last minute here because we've been talking about a
Speaker 15: deal for months now. But you know, I think the
Speaker 15: expectation at this point is that the deal that's being
Speaker 15: considered by Trump is a lot of the existing by
Speaker 15: Dance investors from the US Oracle would be involved, Blackstone
Speaker 15: would be involved, and it would sort of minimize by
Speaker 15: Dance's ownership stake and TikTok, so it would bring it
Speaker 15: below that twenty percent threshold that the law requires, and
Speaker 15: so it would sort of fill in the other eighty
Speaker 15: percent with a bunch of US investors. Now, I think
Speaker 15: we're still a ways away from an actual resolution because
Speaker 15: even if Trump presents this solution, it requires approval not
Speaker 15: only from ByteDance but from the Chinese government. And we
Speaker 15: don't know the specifics around the algorithm, you know, does
Speaker 15: that change hands?
Speaker 7: Who gets to control that?
Speaker 15: So we're kind of hearing I think, the thinking from
Speaker 15: one side of the fence, but we don't know what
Speaker 15: China is thinking.
Speaker 7: And that's a big player here.
Speaker 2: Thirty seconds, Kurt met to under pressure your.
Speaker 15: Name too, goshcha, Yeah, I feel like you know, we
Speaker 15: saw that headline yesterday that Mark Zuckerberg is trying to
Speaker 15: ask Donald Trump to help them with THEFTC trial. Not surprising.
Speaker 15: Why else would you build that relationship with Trump if
Speaker 15: you're not going to make that request. But I also
Speaker 15: don't think Trump has a lot of incentive to do
Speaker 15: that right now. He may as well hang that over
Speaker 15: Meta's head for a little longer.
Speaker 2: Meta in the eye the storm when it comes to
Speaker 2: Taris instead and an EU potential response. Kurt Wagner, We
Speaker 2: thank you so much. That does it for this addition
Speaker 2: of bloombog technology quite check on these markets a sea
Speaker 2: of red, particularly for the technology space. This is Bluemberg
Speaker 2: Technology