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Speaker 1: Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio the George

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Speaker 1: Washington Broadcast Center.

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Speaker 2: Jack Armstrong, Joe Caddy, I'm strong and Jettie and he

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Speaker 2: Armstrong and Eddie.

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Speaker 3: I'm going over the president. Joe Batten. Something that you're

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Speaker 3: keeping your glovebox.

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Speaker 2: I like to buy a vow.

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Speaker 1: That is.

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Speaker 2: That's the wrong game. Plea, Come on, Conan, what are

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Speaker 2: you doing?

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Speaker 1: It's me.

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Speaker 2: I'm still the president. I'm Joe. I may be older.

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Speaker 2: I'll beat the hell out of you. I'll pop you.

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Speaker 2: I'll give you an uncle sandwich. You know how to

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Speaker 2: do it. I can make sandwiches. And guess what, here's

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Speaker 2: the deal. I'm not the old one now. Trump is

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Speaker 2: the only difference.

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Speaker 4: I know when to walk away about six months too late?

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Speaker 2: Okay, show me whatever that was? Oh man, that was

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Speaker 2: the answer.

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Speaker 5: So bad.

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Speaker 2: They gave you a double X.

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Speaker 5: All right.

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Speaker 4: So once again, if you didn't watch Sara High Live,

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Speaker 4: Dana Carvey there went to his blank stare like when

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Speaker 4: Biden locks up. But this week they cut away immediately

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Speaker 4: with the camera. They didn't hang on that. Yeah, so

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Speaker 4: I think it's interesting. They didn't tell Carvey to stop,

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Speaker 4: but they cut away from it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you nailed it earlier, the great, the

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Speaker 1: legendary Dana Carvey. They don't want to step on his bit,

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Speaker 1: like tell him not to do it, but they just

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Speaker 1: cut away.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, hmmm yeah.

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Speaker 1: If you didn't watch it, and a lot of y'all

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Speaker 1: don't it. It was unsparing in its mockery of Kamala

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Speaker 1: and Walls and Joe Biden. Absolutely, yeah, yeah, which good.

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Speaker 1: So I point this out just because I think, and

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Speaker 1: there's there's an old joke that war is how Americans

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Speaker 1: learned geography, and Africa is more than simmering. It's boiling

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Speaker 1: with violence and extremism and instability. I mean, just to

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Speaker 1: give you an idea, welcome to you. What's up with Africa?

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Speaker 2: Oh my god? Indeed, I can't believe that this song

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Speaker 2: made a comeback. I hated it when it originally came out.

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Speaker 1: Don't bless the rains down in Africa. You're a monster.

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Speaker 1: I've loved it since the first time I heard it.

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Speaker 1: This is one of our great points of disagreements.

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Speaker 2: I've always hated it and how can you dislike that hook?

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Speaker 2: Dorminy's Frat Rock loves it. Though it's hugely popular among

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Speaker 2: my college kids. How can it not be. It's a

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Speaker 2: great song. Everybody knows that.

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Speaker 1: So and I realize you're going to be atial Jino

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Speaker 1: about twenty two seconds into this, you're gonna be thinking

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Speaker 1: where's he going with this?

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Speaker 2: And that's kind of the point.

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Speaker 1: A surprise deal that could allow Ethiopia to base warships

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Speaker 1: in a breakaway region of Somalia is stoking tensions throughout

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Speaker 1: a corner of Africa already ablaze with militant violence. Under

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Speaker 1: the agreement, Somaliland, which is an independent, self declared state

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Speaker 1: within Somalia's recognized borders, they would grant landlocked Ethiopia the

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Speaker 1: rights to naval and commercial port facilities on the Red Sea.

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Speaker 4: So did Somaliland do what northern Californian part of Oregon

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Speaker 4: been wanting to do?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they did a state of Jefferson. Yeah exactly, although

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Speaker 1: with a hell of a lot of blood letting. So

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Speaker 1: in return, Ethiopia would be the first country in the

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Speaker 1: world to recognize Somaliland is actually its own country, an

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Speaker 1: independent state. Obviously, this is angered Somalia. International players from

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Speaker 1: Cairo to Washington are getting involved. Let's see, Egypt is

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Speaker 1: furious over a giant dam Ethiopia built on the Blue Nile?

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Speaker 1: Are there two niles? The Blue Nile? Blue Nile sounds

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Speaker 1: like a good I don't know, liquor.

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Speaker 4: This is like what they're doing with the moons. Got

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Speaker 4: the Harvest supermoon and all the different moons. Now we

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Speaker 4: got different niles.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I have no idea.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, so Egypt is so pissed off about this

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Speaker 1: giant dam. They've joined Somalia's camp and delivered a shipload

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Speaker 1: of artillery and anti tank weapons to Somalia. The US,

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Speaker 1: which has four hundred and fifty commandos and defense personnel

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Speaker 1: stationed in Somalia, how many knew that? As I mentioned

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Speaker 1: referred to last hour to advise local troops. But advise, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've heard from guys who've come back.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Often the advising is shoot like this, bam bam, bam,

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Speaker 1: bam bam as they exchange fire. Anyway, they're advising local

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Speaker 1: troops fighting al Shabab and the Islamic State. The US

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Speaker 1: is worried that this battle is distracting Mogadishu from the

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Speaker 1: eighteen year old counter insurgency war.

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Speaker 2: Easy to breeze through that sentence.

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Speaker 1: Eighteen years now they've been fighting various Islamist lunatic groups.

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Speaker 2: Isn't that something?

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Speaker 4: There are so many parts of the world, A lot

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Speaker 4: of them in Africa, most of them in Africa where

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Speaker 4: it's like those apocalyptic movies, yes that you watch, where

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Speaker 4: it's just but worse. Yeah, the human suffering.

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Speaker 1: Very few of those apocalyptic movies show children being machetied

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Speaker 1: to death, for instance.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the whole world could become that way easily if

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Speaker 4: you don't have oh yeah, you know, oh yeah, the

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Speaker 4: natural tendency is toward chaos. In August, militants launched a

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Speaker 4: suicide attack on Mogadishu's Lido Beach, killing thirty seven civilians

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Speaker 4: and injuring more than two hundred and ten. Did you

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Speaker 4: even hear about that?

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Speaker 2: Nope?

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Speaker 1: Might have, you know, kind of passed on your internet feed.

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Speaker 1: Small force of Islamic state fighters is also gaining strength. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Western officials believe Yemen based who the militis, Oh, we're

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Speaker 1: in Yemen now, who have been launching missiles at shipping

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Speaker 1: in the Red Sea purportedly to support the Palestinians, have

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Speaker 1: made contact with al Shabab, which is a bit of

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Speaker 1: a nightmare scenario.

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Speaker 4: All the college kids marching in the street about these

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Speaker 4: horrors in Africa.

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Speaker 1: Too, not so much so providing various militants with armed

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Speaker 1: drones that might enable al Shabab to mount deadlier attacks

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Speaker 1: on us and allied positions in Somalia. Now, we haven't

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Speaker 1: even mentioned Eritrea, which split off from Thiopia after a

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Speaker 1: thirty year freaking civil war, taking Ethiopia's only seacoast with it.

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Speaker 1: So Ethiopia needs the Somaliland sea coast that used to

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Speaker 1: be Somalia's sea coast because Eritrea shot and killed enough

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Speaker 1: people that they split off to clear their own damn country.

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Speaker 1: None of this is fully settled, and everybody's ready to

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Speaker 1: start slaughtering each other as quickly as possible if they can.

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Speaker 1: They mentioned that Somali and Somali Land actually were united

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Speaker 1: when Somalia got its independence in nineteen sixty, but they

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Speaker 1: fell out when Somali dictator Mohammed Siad Bar oversaw the

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Speaker 1: slaughter of tens of thousands of Somali Landers in the

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Speaker 1: late nineteen eighties.

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Speaker 2: I have a narrow Eritrea. I have to take a

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Speaker 2: pill for it.

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Speaker 1: So everybody's familiar with the Great Tutsies and what was

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Speaker 1: it in that's right, in Rwanda. Everybody's familiar with that

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Speaker 1: one because they made a movie. Well, right, but there's

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Speaker 1: tens of thousands of people getting slaughtered right now.

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Speaker 2: In two or three different conflicts.

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Speaker 4: And again, our college campuses are royaled with people protesting

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Speaker 4: the variety of the war.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that Israel is defending its elf, and they call

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Speaker 1: it a genocide even though it's nothing like that. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: the problem with all of this is, of course that

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Speaker 1: China is trying to take advantage and raise its geopolitical

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Speaker 1: power to wield against us, and the idea of just

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Speaker 1: staying at home and letting Africa go to hell is

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Speaker 1: not a practical one, especially because the world is so tiny. Now,

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Speaker 1: you got some militant group like al Shabab. The moment

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Speaker 1: they can strike the US, they'll do it.

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Speaker 4: Sure, it's not appreciated enough that the whole world could

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Speaker 4: look like Africa. Yes, in one hundred years, if you

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Speaker 4: don't still have a US World Order, led World Order,

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Speaker 4: or Europe or Western civilization or somebody.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, every part of the world has looked like Africa

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Speaker 1: more or less at some point. Sure, until some great

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Speaker 1: power said y'all are going to settle down, or we'll

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Speaker 1: kill you.

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Speaker 2: Quicker than those guys can. Whether it's Rome or.

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Speaker 4: Various Chinese princedoms, prince whatever they call them.

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Speaker 1: Ottoman Empire invited the foot rest. Yeah, lots and lots

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Speaker 1: of inventeds.

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Speaker 2: Did I say invited? I'm an invented. That was close? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: got Yeah. That whole thing, the whole Africa thing is fascinating. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's the state of human kind.

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Speaker 1: Uh. They would tell you in the universities that's because

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Speaker 1: of colonialism, settler colonialism, and they're not completely wrong, but

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Speaker 1: they way overstated. And that's what's up with Africa.

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Speaker 4: It sounds a lot scharier in the song the harmony

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Speaker 4: right here, because a harmony takes over the melody.

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Speaker 2: It's this brilliant songwriting. Bless You've gotta.

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Speaker 1: Bless the rings down in Africa, or you'll get more violence.

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Speaker 2: I rest my case, We'll use rape as a weapon

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Speaker 2: down in Africa. Is that one of the lyrics?

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Speaker 5: Good?

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Speaker 1: Na Geez's really grim man grim.

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Speaker 4: It was the one thing I want to jamming synthesizer

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Speaker 4: before he took a break.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I get this is our teas. This is a

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Speaker 2: good teas.

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Speaker 4: All right, I'm happy when this happens that it turns

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Speaker 4: out that y'all all, y'all Americans, human beings are paying

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Speaker 4: enough attention that you get this result. Gallup shows a

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Speaker 4: record low approval and they've been doing this for many,

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Speaker 4: many decades. Record low approval of the media in terms

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Speaker 4: of believing what they tell you. Yeah, that ain't good,

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Speaker 4: but it's accurate. It's heartening, isn't it to see that

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Speaker 4: people perceive.

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Speaker 5: It.

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Speaker 4: It is heartening that people understand that it's true. It's bad,

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Speaker 4: that it's actually happening, very bad.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I'm beyond the point of wishing things were better. I

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Speaker 1: just want people to understand so they can join us

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Speaker 1: in the fight.

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Speaker 4: Some of them are just amazing that and other stuff

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Speaker 4: on the way.

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Speaker 3: Okay, don't let the people survey top six answers on

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Speaker 3: the board name something that you're keeping your glove compartment,

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Speaker 3: oh dp, Harris Steve.

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Speaker 6: Look, I was raised in a middle class family.

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Speaker 2: All right, Oh, here we go.

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Speaker 6: Okay. My mother raised my sister and me, all right,

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Speaker 6: she worked hard and saved up.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Uh, and we had a second mother too.

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Speaker 3: Okay, did that mother have a global compartment?

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Speaker 6: A small business? Owner named Miss Shelton.

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Speaker 3: Okay, we got that something that you keep in your

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Speaker 3: local apartment.

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Speaker 6: Oh a glock? See if a big old clock? Oh oh.

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Speaker 2: Stamp? Okay, so you strapped like that?

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Speaker 6: All right?

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Speaker 2: Show me the blip black wicket.

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Speaker 3: Number two answer the Democrats is controlling the boards.

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Speaker 2: That's from the opening Saturday Night Life.

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Speaker 4: There's not a chance that the people running Kamala Harris's

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Speaker 4: campaign don't watch Saturday Night Live for q's m or

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Speaker 4: or just watch it in general, but watch it for q's.

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Speaker 2: You know, what's their take on things?

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Speaker 4: Do they do they watch that and think, oh, damn,

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Speaker 4: we've done the whole middle class family thing too much?

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Speaker 4: Or do think they think perfect, We've hit it enough times.

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Speaker 4: It's like advertising. I remember it in radio. We used

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Speaker 4: to complain to our bosses, I can't stand this concert

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Speaker 4: promo that we're running.

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Speaker 2: It's killing me. When you're tired of it, the listener

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Speaker 2: has just heard it for the first time, just comprehended it. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: So is that the way they steal question?

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Speaker 4: I wonder if the campaign people think good, we've we've

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Speaker 4: we've got that solidly in people's minds that you come

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Speaker 4: from a middle class fan.

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Speaker 2: What I want to know.

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Speaker 1: Is is blip bland and blicky?

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Speaker 2: I don't know a known term.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, but it made me laugh, made me laugh.

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Speaker 4: I love the way they portray her husband too. The

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Speaker 4: Andy Samberg kind of just really weak guys.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, spineless.

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Speaker 4: That's awesome. If she wins, I hope that hangs around.

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Speaker 4: This is not shocking.

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Speaker 2: Well, isn't he the guy who allegedly slapped down a girlfriend?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, that's a contrasting image.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, good point.

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Speaker 4: Confidence in the media has fallen to a new low.

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Speaker 4: According to Gallup, who has been asking this question for

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Speaker 4: a very long time. New polling shows a record low

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Speaker 4: thirty one percent of adults have a great deal or

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Speaker 4: fair amount of confidence in the media to report the news.

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Speaker 2: Oh that includes fair.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the flip side of it is amazing. The biggest number,

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Speaker 4: what they call the plurality. Thirty six percent have no

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Speaker 4: trust at all in newspaper, television and radio outlets. Thirty

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Speaker 4: six percent zero trust, yeah, and then another thirty three

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Speaker 4: percent not very much.

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Speaker 2: So if you add zero to not very.

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Speaker 4: Much, you're at call it seventy percent at sixty nine

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Speaker 4: giggay gg wow. Wow, Well that's about appropriate it is.

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Speaker 4: I mean, how do you argue with that? I mean,

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Speaker 4: I kind of am. I guess my question would be

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Speaker 4: those of you who have some confidence, what is your deal?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm we're both at the point that we're old

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Speaker 1: enough that we see the arc of history Jack, which

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Speaker 1: bends toward more crap in my experience. But you've got

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Speaker 1: a problem, like an awful, dishonest, biased activist media. You

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Speaker 1: gotta get through the whole people become aware of it

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Speaker 1: stage before you can really get serious about fixing it.

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Speaker 1: And whether it's the transgender sports thing, dudes playing in

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Speaker 1: women's sports, I'm just gonna start calling it that, or

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Speaker 1: awareness of how corrupt the media is. We're at the

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Speaker 1: people recognizing it. It's a pretty big problem. So that's encouraging.

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Speaker 4: Does that leave a hole for like some of the

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Speaker 4: stuff I take in the Dispatch, Mark Halpern's newsletter, people

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Speaker 4: that I trust are really really trying hard to get

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Speaker 4: it right.

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Speaker 1: The Free Press, the Armstrong and Getty Show. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean we have a point of view, but we're

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Speaker 1: and that's the difference. Sometimes people say, you guys, I

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Speaker 1: like you because you're right down the middle. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we're avowed conservatives, but try to be fair. I always

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Speaker 1: tried to be fair and honest and not pander, which

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Speaker 1: I think is fine. If those of not just she

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Speaker 1: Devils who moderated the debate, we're to come out.

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Speaker 4: That's you being fair and charitable. That's Joe being fair

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Speaker 4: and charitable. It's not just she Devils.

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Speaker 1: I had a much worse term right there in Beckham,

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Speaker 1: a tongue ready to climb out into their front room. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: if they came out and said, look, obviously we come

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Speaker 1: at this from a progressive point of view, they would

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Speaker 1: get partial credit from me. Of course, that's not their job,

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Speaker 1: and that's not what they claim to be. They're utterly

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Speaker 1: dishonest about it. That's the problem.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Well you'd have to come out and say we're

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Speaker 4: only going to fact check one side right because we

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Speaker 4: hate the other side.

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Speaker 1: Well, then why would I watch? And I don't care

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Speaker 1: how much she lies, just as long as she beats

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Speaker 1: that guy.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: So let's get started. So we should have played this

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Speaker 4: last week when it happened. We didn't get around to it.

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Speaker 4: Barack Obama lecture in a bunch of black dudes about

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Speaker 4: them not voting for Kamala Harris, like lecturing them like

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Speaker 4: they're like.

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Speaker 2: He's their dad, shaming them. Yes, and it was in the.

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Speaker 4: Hallway outside the event, but he canna he was on camera.

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Speaker 4: This was clearly designed to go viral, which it did. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and I don't know how. I don't know how male

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Speaker 4: black voters reacted to it. I don't have any idea,

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Speaker 4: but we'll play that for you coming.

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Speaker 2: Up Armstrong and Getty and my numbers with the black

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Speaker 2: and especially black men. I love black men. I love them.

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Speaker 2: I love them. I have gone through the roof with

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Speaker 2: black men, black men.

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Speaker 4: Speaking of hammering messages kind of like we were talking

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Speaker 4: about earlier with the Kamala Harris. I come from a

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Speaker 4: middle class family. I mean, Trump is in the sales

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Speaker 4: business and he and he clearly feels like hammering the

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Speaker 4: just hammering the phrase over and over and over and

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Speaker 4: over again is.

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Speaker 2: To make sure is the way to get it to

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Speaker 2: stick in people's heads.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Somebody told me that he references that in the Art

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Speaker 1: of the Deal. Yeah, the power of repetition.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he does. I haven't read it.

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Speaker 4: And on the whole uh black men thing, which has

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Speaker 4: become a bit of a topic, and we're about to

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Speaker 4: hear Barack Obama lecturing black men about that. So Democrats

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Speaker 4: won the black vote in general, this isn't just men,

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Speaker 4: but uh and he's even and it's worse among men

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Speaker 4: than women, But among all black voters, Democrats won by

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Speaker 4: eighty five in twenty sixteen, Hillary won that vote by

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Speaker 4: eighty five points. In twenty twenty, Biden won it by

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Speaker 4: eighty one points. Kamala currently leads it by sixty three.

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Speaker 4: Now still obviously that's a giant win. But that's a

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Speaker 4: twenty two point drop, yeah, from.

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Speaker 1: Twenty sixteen, and an unmistakable trend. And when you're dealing

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Speaker 1: with something as culturally entrenched as the idea that black

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Speaker 1: folks vote for Democrats, the fact that you could unstick

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Speaker 1: it that much, that's really significant.

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Speaker 4: I gotta believe it's the same issues, whatever they are,

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Speaker 4: and we're all guessing that's caused the Hispanic vote to

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Speaker 4: turn so much. The New York Times with their analysis

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Speaker 4: that Trump's doing better with his Hispanics than any other

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Speaker 4: Republican ever, has Kamala Harris is doing worse than a

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Speaker 4: Democrat ever has.

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Speaker 2: I gotta believe it's the same stuff anyway.

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Speaker 4: So Barack Obama gave a speech the other day, big

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Speaker 4: one in Pennsylvania in front of a giant crowd. Then

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Speaker 4: he was like in the hallway of the arena later

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Speaker 4: talking to some black guys. Clearly this was designed to

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Speaker 4: go viral. Somebody who's there with the camera out talking,

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Speaker 4: you know, recording him. I mean, it's not like he

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Speaker 4: got caught. It's not an open mic thing, right, this

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Speaker 4: is on purpose.

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Speaker 2: We had not yet.

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Speaker 5: See the same kinds of energy had turnout in all courts.

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Speaker 2: How our neighborhoods, and to get musicism solve.

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Speaker 5: Now, I also want to say that that seems to

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Speaker 5: be more pronounced with the brothers. So if you don't

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Speaker 5: mind just for a second, I'm gonna speak to y'all

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Speaker 5: and say that when you have a choice that is

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Speaker 5: this clean. And on one hand, you have somebody who

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Speaker 5: grew up like you, knows you went to college, would

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Speaker 5: you understands the struggles and pain and joy that comes

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Speaker 5: from those experiences.

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Speaker 2: Of living in Montreal.

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Speaker 4: Well, he goes on to say, and I thought that's

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Speaker 4: actually what the clip was going to be. He goes

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Speaker 4: on to say, basically, I'm disappointed in you? What's wrong

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Speaker 4: with you? Come on, get your act together, I mean,

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Speaker 4: like really lecturing tone.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and that part about it's because some of

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Speaker 1: y'all aren't good with a woman being president.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we actually will have to grab that because that's

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Speaker 4: the whole point. I mean, yeah, so you won't vote

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Speaker 4: for a woman? I am disappointed in you?

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Speaker 2: What yeah?

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Speaker 6: What?

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Speaker 2: Wow? I can't believe that.

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Speaker 4: He immediately assumes that if black men aren't voting for

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Speaker 4: Kamala Harris, it's because they won't they don't believe a

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Speaker 4: woman should be president.

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Speaker 2: A few dude, it would be my thought.

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Speaker 4: Wow, I could have all kinds of reasons for choosing

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Speaker 4: one candidate over another, got nothing to do with whether

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Speaker 4: it's a woman or not. But you're smart, Harvard former

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Speaker 4: president godfather is here to tell you the only reason

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Speaker 4: you'd vote against her is because you're sexist, and you're

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Speaker 4: too dumb to.

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Speaker 2: Overcome that argument.

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Speaker 1: And then that's the argument essentially, because for me to

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Speaker 1: fall for that, I would have to be so easily

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Speaker 1: cowed that any any accusation whatsoever would change my mind.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'll do what you say, or I'm so

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Speaker 1: dumb I can't think a policy.

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Speaker 2: So that's an incredibly insulting argument.

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Speaker 4: All right, and then throw in a dose of I'm

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Speaker 4: disappointed in you or you're letting me down.

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Speaker 2: Uh okay, whatever, Yeah, sorry. I was amazed by that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah.

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Speaker 4: And like I said, I really think they put that

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Speaker 4: out there to go viral. I mean, they wanted to

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Speaker 4: be seen in all quarters, and I thought it was

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Speaker 4: I generally think Barack Obama is, you know, your top

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Speaker 4: tier of politicians.

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Speaker 2: I thought that was a horrible look.

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Speaker 1: I think he is post needing anything from anybody, and

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Speaker 1: he has never lacked for confidence. No, but the very

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Speaker 1: very pleased with himself to the point of being insufferably

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Speaker 1: smug at times. And now he doesn't have to pretend otherwise. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think we're only seeing the beginning of the brand

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Speaker 1: new I'm better than you, I'm better than everybody.

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Speaker 2: I am a god.

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Speaker 1: Part of a portion of Barack Obama's life.

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Speaker 4: What what is what will the left do if Trump

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Speaker 4: wins and it's with you know, the biggest chunk of

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Speaker 4: black and Hispanic votes that any Republicans ever gotten and

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Speaker 4: the smallest group that any.

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Speaker 2: Democrats have been gone?

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Speaker 4: What are they gonna what are you gonna do with

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Speaker 4: that for your autopsy on the left after the election,

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Speaker 4: You're probably.

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Speaker 1: Going to do a fair amount of polling to figure

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Speaker 1: out why that is, obviously, and when they discover it

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Speaker 1: is the far left madness, they will attempt to rein

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Speaker 1: it in and soft pedal it. But the problem is

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Speaker 1: they didn't create the monster. They're just trying to win

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Speaker 1: its votes. And so if the Democratic Party turns against

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Speaker 1: the entire education establishment of the US and a lot

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Speaker 1: of the media who believe what they learned at Columbia

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Speaker 1: Journalism or whatever, it's going to.

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Speaker 2: Be a war for the ages and some of the issues.

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Speaker 4: Somebody on the text line pointed out the abortion issue,

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Speaker 4: which is Kamala Harris feels like that's her, you know,

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Speaker 4: biggest strength as the abortant edition.

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Speaker 2: A lot of the Hispanic vote ain't down with that.

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Speaker 1: No, certainly not up until the moment of conception or

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, birth and beyond if it's a botched abortion.

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Speaker 2: No, they don't like that a bit.

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Speaker 4: God, this reminds me of a conversation I had with

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Speaker 4: somebody over the weekend trying to figure out whether I

444
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 4: want to go here or not. If Michelangelo is here.

445
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 4: What would he say, go ahead?

446
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 2: Do it makes you grin?

447
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 4: I don't know.

448
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 2: If I don't know if this would make you a grin.

449
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 2: I should think this.

450
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 1: If it improves the show, let it flow.

451
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 4: It doesn't look favorably upon the Mormon religion, oh, which

452
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 4: I I've always been pro. But I talked to somebody

453
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 4: who would know, as they were a Mormon for twenty

454
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 4: years married to a a Mormon gentleman who was gay

455
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 4: but hiding it. Finally came out after twenty years of

456
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,199
Speaker 4: marriage and explained why he had no interest in her

457
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 4: for twenty years. That's painful, but she became a Mormon

458
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 4: to get married to the guy. And the questions about

459
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 4: whether you've ever masturbated and how you went about masturbating

460
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 4: and them writing it down?

461
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 1: Do you mean like today? You mean on the way

462
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 1: to work, like I didn't, I know nothing about it.

463
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 2: I didn't neither.

464
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 4: I didn't either. And they got married in the big

465
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 4: Temple and everything. I mean, just you know that, the whole,

466
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 4: the whole. Not I'm not talking about like some of

467
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 4: those little enclaves in Utah where people have eight y

468
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 4: you know, like the factions of oarm. This was like

469
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 4: mainstream and I was shocked by this, and and and

470
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 4: and then tell me a story.

471
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 2: I gotta be vague here.

472
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 4: I hope I don't get anybody in trouble, but I

473
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 4: was shocked by all this stuff.

474
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 2: Dude who he and his wife.

475
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 4: Their divorce got married anyway, he was asked if he

476
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:26,959
Speaker 4: had masturbated, and he said yes and got excommunicated, and

477
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 4: it had spent the last couple of years working his

478
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 4: way back into the church.

479
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 2: Wow, so that they can get married in the church. Wow, Wow,

480
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 2: I know. Wow.

481
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: Huh. Now that's a strict regulation there.

482
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 4: My only experience with Mormon families Mormon religion has been

483
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 4: one hundred percent positive, like the like seriously like best

484
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 4: people I've ever been around, like something to model your

485
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 4: life after, prize the family. So I only know this

486
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 4: anecdotal stuff that sounds yes, Hanson, you feel like I

487
00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 4: just I'm sorry.

488
00:26:58,240 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 2: I should have said if they call it a sin,

489
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 2: I leave it in. That's now I feel like I

490
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 2: screwed up, So you grin leave it. But if called

491
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 2: that is, and don't leave it, but put it in

492
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:08,400
Speaker 2: the bin.

493
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 4: If anybody can speak to whether or not that's like

494
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 4: common or is this just like somebody that was off

495
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 4: the reservation, wacky?

496
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 1: But in telling that story, I have no idea, and

497
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 1: I'm intensely uncomfortable with this.

498
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 2: I am too well, Okay, explain why you're intensely uncomfortable.

499
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 2: I just.

500
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:34,959
Speaker 1: I if I am going to criticize or make sport

501
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 1: or whatever of a religious doctrine, I want to make

502
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 1: sure I have the facts right. Otherwise I'm just hurting

503
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: people's feelings in an unjustifiable way. Like I was very

504
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 1: very careful about making sure I was on solid ground

505
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 1: talking about Islam and radical Islam, because there are plenty

506
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: of Muslim people who viewed as a personal faith that

507
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: the whole political quest domination aspect of Islam, the fundamentalist

508
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,719
Speaker 1: part of it. A lot of people don't embrace that,

509
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,920
Speaker 1: and I have no argument with them at all. But yeah,

510
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:17,479
Speaker 1: there's a lot within Islam that is incompatible with a

511
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: peaceful world, fundamentalist Islam in my opinion, And I'm right.

512
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 4: I tell you, I was talking to these successful, normal

513
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 4: people we're telling this story, yeah, and I was like,

514
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 4: mouth open.

515
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 1: Well, the Catholic Church was staunchly against self pleasurement. You know,

516
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: during a lot of the twentieth century, the boys were

517
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: taught it would make them go blind. Yeah, but anybody

518
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 1: saying that now in.

519
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 2: The Catholic Church, I don't not as much. This was now.

520
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 4: This is like in like two years ago, you get

521
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 4: kicked out of church because I just thought of a

522
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 4: really inappropriate change. It just seems so crazy. It seems

523
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 4: crazy to me that you'd ever answered the question, why

524
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 4: would I tell you?

525
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 2: Dude?

526
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I can't even imagine answering that question.

527
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, how about you handle your deal your life and

528
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,959
Speaker 1: how you handle sex and sexuality with your partner, who

529
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: is very different than mine. Everybody's a little different, And yeah,

530
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: why don't we just worry about other stuff? Some people

531
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: think that is somehow fundamental to sin and self, you know, pleasure. Well,

532
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: it's a sin, that's an indulgence. It's a being undisciplined.

533
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: And see that I don't get.

534
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 2: I get.

535
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 4: I get some of the stuff, like the ungodly, the

536
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 4: hardcore sex before marriage.

537
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 2: You're not going to accomplish it. But I understand the reason.

538
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:43,479
Speaker 4: There's all kinds of ways you can screw up your

539
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 4: life forever by you know, getting involved in too much

540
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 4: sex before marriage. And get somebody pregnantllity sort of stuff.

541
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 4: But I'm not sure about the masturbating part. I don't

542
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 4: understand where's the crime there.

543
00:29:55,360 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 2: It's has to do with lust. I think actualization. I

544
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 2: don't know, I don't I don't know.

545
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 4: See like on that I would be I'd be fine

546
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 4: with lecturing people about the evils of internet porn.

547
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 2: I'd be fine with that, yeah, because it is awful.

548
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 2: It's terrible for you. But just you know, first of all,

549
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 2: if so.

550
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 4: You're telling me, all the guys are going in there

551
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 4: and saying no or they get excommunity.

552
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 2: Then they're lying. Well, true, So what have you accomplished? Right?

553
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 2: That's the old joke.

554
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: Seventy percent of men say they have master made in

555
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: thirty percent or liars anyway, So this is this is

556
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 1: I would rather talk about Mogadishu's port deal with.

557
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 2: The I'm sure.

558
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 4: I'm sure we'll get a bunch of texts about this

559
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 4: because I'm fascinated by this. I had never heard that

560
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 4: in my life.

561
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wish.

562
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: I'd taken a comparative religions class in college.

563
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 2: I never did.

564
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know if in college would be the

565
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 4: best place to get the straight scoop.

566
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 2: That's your professor. Probably every single religion he was talking.

567
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 2: He's gotten that idea.

568
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, anyway, we will finish strong our text line, Yeah,

569
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 4: join in text line four one, five, two, nine five

570
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 4: k FTC will finish strong, next strong.

571
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 7: According to a new study, South Burlington, Vermont, is the

572
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 7: safest city in the country, while the least safe city

573
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 7: is Diddy freak Off Nebraska.

574
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: Wow.

575
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 2: Wow, that's a good joke. Yeah, they're a couple to trade.

576
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 2: Did he jokes? And nothing he did was funny.

577
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: But boy, the whole he's clearly guilty attitude is settled

578
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: across the land.

579
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 4: I gotta assume if you engage in a freak off

580
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 4: you get excommunicated. For many churches, yes, most so on

581
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 4: that topic, which I'm not going to restate, please, but

582
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 4: we got a number of texts, mostly from the that's

583
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 4: the craziest thing I've ever heard. I've been in the

584
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 4: church my whole life. My husband's a bishop, I'm a bishop.

585
00:31:58,440 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 2: Whatever.

586
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 4: That's a bunch of crap. You shouldn't be saying it.

587
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 4: Got a handful though, a couple, only well a handful

588
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 4: two two people like yes I am in the church

589
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 4: or I was in the church, and that's absolutely true.

590
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 4: I don't have the slightest idea other than what I

591
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 4: heard from successful normal people who this happened to me,

592
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 4: happened to them.

593
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 2: So this is what I'd like to hear.

594
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,479
Speaker 4: If you're knowledgeable about this, explain to me why they

595
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 4: would have had that experience, because I believe their experience,

596
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 4: Like is it a weird like offshoot, or is it

597
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 4: like one crazy bishop just like they're bad priests, or sure,

598
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 4: what do you think happened there?

599
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 2: On text line four one five two nine five KFTC.

600
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 4: I'm pro organized religion, so I'm never trying to bring

601
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 4: down any organized religion.

602
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 2: Just be good at what you do.

603
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: A couple of quick notes left this out last week,

604
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: and I was kicking myself for it over the weekend

605
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: that whole flap at CBS News where Tony Decouple dared

606
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 1: to do journalism and challenge one of the saints of

607
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 1: the left, Tana Hashi you pronounce it turns out coats

608
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: how you get out of his anyway? That one of

609
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: the things the network brass did was they said they

610
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 1: were bringing in a mental health expert DEI strategist and

611
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: trauma trainer, a trauma.

612
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 4: Trainer to help people deal with the regular interview, right,

613
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 4: just good solid journalism, challenging a one sided view.

614
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 1: But then it turned out that this guy, doctor Donald Grant,

615
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: who's the anti racist type, is completely racist, because that's

616
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: what anti racism is. It's racism, but good racism. For instance,

617
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,479
Speaker 1: he posted an altered cover of the classic Uncle Tom's

618
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: Cabin with Tim Scott's face on it, Uncle Tim's Cabin.

619
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:46,959
Speaker 2: He called it.

620
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: That's fair calling Tim Scott an Uncle Tom for being

621
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: a Republican. So CBS quickly shuffled their feet, cleared their throat,

622
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: and disinvited the guy.

623
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 2: I guess, and then I want to throw this in

624
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 2: real quick. Oh we don't have time.

625
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:02,959
Speaker 4: We ought to hit it on it to get tomorrow.

626
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 4: This is a good topic. It's a good topic. And

627
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 4: and my question still like is this good news or

628
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 4: bad news?

629
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 2: Like is this headed the right direction or the wrong direction?

630
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 2: It's the end of the beginning.

631
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 4: Okayw Hey, Rocky, what should we pull a final thought

632
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 4: out of my hat?

633
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:22,720
Speaker 6: Again?

634
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 2: That trick never works. Nothing up with sleeve pristo throwback there?

635
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 2: All right?

636
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 4: I like Rocky and bowlwegle you gotta be kind of old,

637
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 4: remember it. But here's your host for final thoughts.

638
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,720
Speaker 2: Joe Gedden must get Moose and squirrel.

639
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: Let's get a final thought from everybody on the crew,

640
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 1: beginning with our technical director who is not here, segueing

641
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: over to our esteemed newswoman.

642
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 2: Who is not available.

643
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: Our technical I'm sorry, our executive producer, Mike Hanson is

644
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 1: filling in running the board today.

645
00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 2: Hanson, you got a final thought.

646
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, sure you're angst about Columbus stage, Jack, but for

647
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:03,720
Speaker 4: a very different reason.

648
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 2: It was late ericson.

649
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 7: 'gus never knowing the mad Dagon stooool.

650
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:11,800
Speaker 2: Anti Viking bias.

651
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,320
Speaker 4: You're right, Jack in final thought, Yes, we are getting

652
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 4: tons of texts on this particular topic about religion, and

653
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 4: it sounds like it may be an out of control

654
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 4: particular bishop in one particular church.

655
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 2: I don't know. Hmmm, shouldn't that bishop take a meeting?

656
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 5: Oh?

657
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 2: Wowly not wow.

658
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: My final thought was I was completely convinced yesterday I

659
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:34,479
Speaker 1: was gonna be mugged. I should have told this story

660
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:39,359
Speaker 1: one percent. I was thinking, oh, man, getting my phone replaced,

661
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 1: and oh I'm going into but uh, I tried to

662
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 1: look very mean and angry. The guy looked at me,

663
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 1: turned around and walked away. Did you do a flying

664
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 1: scissor kick? I did, but it can neither fly nor scissors,

665
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: so it didn't really come out right. Kind of came

666
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,320
Speaker 1: off with laying down. Yes see tomorrow, God meliss America.

667
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 2: I am proudly casting my vote from Armstrong and Getty.

668
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 4: I can't imagine a more beautiful thing.

669
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 2: Good life, he said, wow, and boom goes to dynamite.

670
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 4: What now.

671
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: My pro tip of the day is this, let's go

672
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 1: in particular and you know what, deadly, precise and above

673
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 1: all surprises.

674
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 2: And by the way, it's

675
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 4: Oh girl, baby girl, Great Friday Mother, Armstrong and Geddy