WEBVTT - Bloomberg's Barnes: Obama's Clean Power Plan Could Stay (Audio)

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<v Speaker 1>afternoon call, and here's Bill Maloney. Good afternoon, Charlie. Manus

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<v Speaker 1>averages have been strong after a quiet start, with the

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<v Speaker 1>DAL currently hired by a hundred and twenty three points,

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<v Speaker 1>says that he's gains thirteen and NAZAC rises forty four.

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<v Speaker 1>The down traded back above the hundred day moving average,

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<v Speaker 1>the small cap six hundreds up a point, and the

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<v Speaker 1>Eight out of eleven sp sectors are higher, led by games,

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<v Speaker 1>in technology, consumed, discretionary, and the financials, while utilities, energy

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<v Speaker 1>and real estate fell down, Transports rise seventy one, hilities

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<v Speaker 1>fall seven, Nazi Botech jump twenty one, and the VIX

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<v Speaker 1>is lower by ten percent. Leaders to the upside of

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<v Speaker 1>the down including Microsoft, Nike, and IBM. Only Disney fell.

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<v Speaker 1>Nike reports after the bell estimates are for fifty six

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<v Speaker 1>cents on revenues of eight point eight seven billion live

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<v Speaker 1>in the first Bacon News asked on Bill Maloney. Alrighty,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you very much. Bill Maloney will be all over

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<v Speaker 1>Nike as we get those numbers again. The Dow the

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<v Speaker 1>w K on your terminal. I'm Charlie Pellock. That's a

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg business flash. You're listening to taking stock with Kathleen

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<v Speaker 1>Hays and Pim Box on Bloomberg Radio. The Clean Power

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<v Speaker 1>Plan it's facing its first legal test. This is President

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<v Speaker 1>Obama's climate legacy. It's the cornerstone of the carbon cutting

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<v Speaker 1>promise the United States made to the world in Paris

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<v Speaker 1>last December as part of a pack among more than

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred eighty nations, and meeting those targets without the

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<v Speaker 1>initiative will be difficult, though impossible bringing in now. Brandon

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<v Speaker 1>Barnes are senior litigation analysts for Energy Bloomberg Intelligence, based

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<v Speaker 1>in Washington, d C to talk about the Clean Power

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<v Speaker 1>Plan arguments from both sides of this debate before the

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<v Speaker 1>d C Circuit. Brandon, welcome, Thanks, So what is on

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<v Speaker 1>the dock at what is being argued today? So today

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<v Speaker 1>was unprecedented in terms of the scope of the argument.

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<v Speaker 1>You had two d eighteen minutes of scheduled argument, which

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<v Speaker 1>is a far far greater amount than normal for the

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<v Speaker 1>d C Circuit. This was sixteen different attorneys arguing in

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<v Speaker 1>front of ten judges. Uh. And they broke the argument

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<v Speaker 1>down into five different categories. First being generally statutory issues,

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<v Speaker 1>which is typically how you would approach a challenge to

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<v Speaker 1>n e p A rule than a very specific statutory

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<v Speaker 1>issue related to Cleaner Act Section one twelve Constitutional shoes

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<v Speaker 1>um segment. And then two other more procedural issues. Can

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<v Speaker 1>you outline who is and what is going on? Because

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<v Speaker 1>I thought that the CPP ended a place in the

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<v Speaker 1>Environmental Protection Agency, the e p A in one corner,

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<v Speaker 1>and then there are what like you know, twenty seven

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<v Speaker 1>states plus industry groups plus utilities, coal miners, labor unions,

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<v Speaker 1>and they were all in another corner and the judges

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<v Speaker 1>are somehow in the middle. Well, I think that's how

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<v Speaker 1>that's certainly how the judges probably felt today with that

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<v Speaker 1>much argument and that many attorneys in the room. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>So you've got EPA on one side, but they've got

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<v Speaker 1>their own kind of cadre of support behind them. They've

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<v Speaker 1>got eighteen states supporting them, filing briefs, They've got counties, cities, mayors. UM.

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<v Speaker 1>Companies like Apple for example, is exactly companies tell us

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit in detail, like who's on each on

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<v Speaker 1>what are they fighting over? Sure? So I think if

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<v Speaker 1>you look at it from a company perspective, on the

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<v Speaker 1>side of the Clean Power Plan and the side of

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<v Speaker 1>the e p A are going to be your wind

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<v Speaker 1>and solar groups, the ones who would benefit most from this. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>That's typically how these lawsuits work, right. And so on

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<v Speaker 1>the other side, you've got utilities, especially the ones who

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<v Speaker 1>are coal fired, because they're really going to be put

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<v Speaker 1>out of existence not only because of this, but I

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<v Speaker 1>mean the market has driven them so far down. So

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<v Speaker 1>between this and other regulations, UM, coal firepower just isn't

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<v Speaker 1>gonna have the same kind of place in the US

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<v Speaker 1>power mix that I had before. So everyone who would

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<v Speaker 1>support coal, the producers, those who work in the industry,

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<v Speaker 1>including the unions are definitely backing would be back in

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<v Speaker 1>the opponents. It just I just with this, this is

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<v Speaker 1>even this is is this is intense or more intense

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<v Speaker 1>than the Supreme Court kind of setting when you talk

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<v Speaker 1>about but how many lawyers intend just it's it's a big,

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<v Speaker 1>big undertaking. It's it's unpressed, as I said, unprecedented, And

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<v Speaker 1>I'll tell you for a couple of reasons, but one

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<v Speaker 1>really important one is Supreme Court has already sort of

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<v Speaker 1>seen a little bit of this picture. They've they've decided

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<v Speaker 1>something related to the Clean Power Plan already, and that

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<v Speaker 1>was back when Justice Scalia was still alive. So the

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<v Speaker 1>Clean Power Plan was stayed by the Supreme Court five

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<v Speaker 1>to four. If we assume Scalia's being that five that

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<v Speaker 1>fitth deciding vote for the conservative side of the of

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<v Speaker 1>the Court then were at four four, which means that

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<v Speaker 1>if if there's a split, the d C Circuit's opinion

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<v Speaker 1>will stay as is and and remain sort of the

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<v Speaker 1>the controlling opinion. So that puts a lot of emphasis

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<v Speaker 1>on what happens in the d C Circuit. And for

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<v Speaker 1>that reason, the d C Circuit said, well, look, we're

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<v Speaker 1>not going to just decide this on our normal three

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<v Speaker 1>judge panel. We're gonna take the entire panel of all

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<v Speaker 1>the judges that are on the court, uh less Merrick

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<v Speaker 1>Garland who recused himself, and and they're going to hear

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<v Speaker 1>the entire case. And they did it on their own

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<v Speaker 1>on which they've only done two other times. So you

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<v Speaker 1>say two hundred and eighteen minutes today? Right? Yes, sir? Uh?

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<v Speaker 1>What happens next? Give us the timeline? What can we

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<v Speaker 1>expect and how do we keep following this important case?

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<v Speaker 1>So hard to say exactly on the timeline because of

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<v Speaker 1>how the DC Circuit has done this by skipping one

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<v Speaker 1>of the segments that they normally do. But if we

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<v Speaker 1>assume that this is a regular case, the d C

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<v Speaker 1>Circuit typically does this in thirteen months or so. This

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<v Speaker 1>case was filed back in October of last year, so

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<v Speaker 1>we could see some sort of opinion coming out from

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<v Speaker 1>UM the court in mid December. Uh go from there,

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<v Speaker 1>there's the obvious appeal up to the Supreme Court that's

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<v Speaker 1>almost guaranteed at this point. UM. That would take you

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<v Speaker 1>through that process into potentially early until we have a

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<v Speaker 1>final decision. If you had to bet, how would you

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<v Speaker 1>bet this comes out? Well, I think right now, based

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<v Speaker 1>on what we saw in the argument today and how

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<v Speaker 1>the judges sort of split on ideological lines, the clean

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<v Speaker 1>power plant is looking pretty good. So if we assume

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<v Speaker 1>that that holds and then we go to a four

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<v Speaker 1>force split in the Screme Court, looks like the clean

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<v Speaker 1>power Plant could could stay relevant and stay in effect

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<v Speaker 1>moving forward. I want to thank you very much. Brandon Barnes,

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<v Speaker 1>Senior Litigation analyst for Energy for Bloomberg Intelligence, joining us

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<v Speaker 1>from Washington, d C. Home to Bloomberg one and one

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<v Speaker 1>oh five point seven h D two. You're listening to

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