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Speaker 1: Global business news twenty four hours a day's Bloomberg dot Com,

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Speaker 1: the Radio plus mobile ass and on your radio. This

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Speaker 1: is a Bloomberg Business Flash from Bloomberg World Headquarters. I'm

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Speaker 1: Charlie Plot the dial the SMP nezdank Hall advancing in.

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Speaker 1: This update is brought to you by Hartford Funds. Hartford

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Speaker 1: Funds their benchmark is the investor. Now let's head right

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Speaker 1: over to the first word, breaking news best for today's

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Speaker 1: afternoon call, and here's Bill Maloney. Good afternoon, Charlie. Manus

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Speaker 1: averages have been strong after a quiet start, with the

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Speaker 1: DAL currently hired by a hundred and twenty three points,

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Speaker 1: says that he's gains thirteen and NAZAC rises forty four.

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Speaker 1: The down traded back above the hundred day moving average,

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Speaker 1: the small cap six hundreds up a point, and the

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Speaker 1: U S ten yield at one point five six percent.

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Speaker 1: Eight out of eleven sp sectors are higher, led by games,

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Speaker 1: in technology, consumed, discretionary, and the financials, while utilities, energy

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Speaker 1: and real estate fell down, Transports rise seventy one, hilities

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Speaker 1: fall seven, Nazi Botech jump twenty one, and the VIX

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Speaker 1: is lower by ten percent. Leaders to the upside of

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Speaker 1: the down including Microsoft, Nike, and IBM. Only Disney fell.

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Speaker 1: Nike reports after the bell estimates are for fifty six

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Speaker 1: cents on revenues of eight point eight seven billion live

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Speaker 1: in the first Bacon News asked on Bill Maloney. Alrighty,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much. Bill Maloney will be all over

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Speaker 1: Nike as we get those numbers again. The Dow the

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Speaker 1: Smpton has stack all advancing and to hear live breaking

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Speaker 1: news over your Bloomberg Times squawk s q U A

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Speaker 1: w K on your terminal. I'm Charlie Pellock. That's a

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg business flash. You're listening to taking stock with Kathleen

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Speaker 1: Hays and Pim Box on Bloomberg Radio. The Clean Power

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Speaker 1: Plan it's facing its first legal test. This is President

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Speaker 1: Obama's climate legacy. It's the cornerstone of the carbon cutting

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Speaker 1: promise the United States made to the world in Paris

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Speaker 1: last December as part of a pack among more than

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Speaker 1: one hundred eighty nations, and meeting those targets without the

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Speaker 1: initiative will be difficult, though impossible bringing in now. Brandon

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Speaker 1: Barnes are senior litigation analysts for Energy Bloomberg Intelligence, based

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Speaker 1: in Washington, d C to talk about the Clean Power

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Speaker 1: Plan arguments from both sides of this debate before the

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Speaker 1: d C Circuit. Brandon, welcome, Thanks, So what is on

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Speaker 1: the dock at what is being argued today? So today

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Speaker 1: was unprecedented in terms of the scope of the argument.

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Speaker 1: You had two d eighteen minutes of scheduled argument, which

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Speaker 1: is a far far greater amount than normal for the

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Speaker 1: d C Circuit. This was sixteen different attorneys arguing in

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Speaker 1: front of ten judges. Uh. And they broke the argument

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Speaker 1: down into five different categories. First being generally statutory issues,

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Speaker 1: which is typically how you would approach a challenge to

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Speaker 1: n e p A rule than a very specific statutory

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Speaker 1: issue related to Cleaner Act Section one twelve Constitutional shoes

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Speaker 1: um segment. And then two other more procedural issues. Can

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Speaker 1: you outline who is and what is going on? Because

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Speaker 1: I thought that the CPP ended a place in the

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Speaker 1: Environmental Protection Agency, the e p A in one corner,

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Speaker 1: and then there are what like you know, twenty seven

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Speaker 1: states plus industry groups plus utilities, coal miners, labor unions,

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Speaker 1: and they were all in another corner and the judges

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Speaker 1: are somehow in the middle. Well, I think that's how

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Speaker 1: that's certainly how the judges probably felt today with that

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Speaker 1: much argument and that many attorneys in the room. Um,

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Speaker 1: So you've got EPA on one side, but they've got

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Speaker 1: their own kind of cadre of support behind them. They've

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Speaker 1: got eighteen states supporting them, filing briefs, They've got counties, cities, mayors. UM.

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Speaker 1: Companies like Apple for example, is exactly companies tell us

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Speaker 1: a little bit in detail, like who's on each on

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Speaker 1: what are they fighting over? Sure? So I think if

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Speaker 1: you look at it from a company perspective, on the

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Speaker 1: side of the Clean Power Plan and the side of

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Speaker 1: the e p A are going to be your wind

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Speaker 1: and solar groups, the ones who would benefit most from this. Um.

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Speaker 1: That's typically how these lawsuits work, right. And so on

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Speaker 1: the other side, you've got utilities, especially the ones who

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Speaker 1: are coal fired, because they're really going to be put

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Speaker 1: out of existence not only because of this, but I

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Speaker 1: mean the market has driven them so far down. So

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Speaker 1: between this and other regulations, UM, coal firepower just isn't

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Speaker 1: gonna have the same kind of place in the US

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Speaker 1: power mix that I had before. So everyone who would

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Speaker 1: support coal, the producers, those who work in the industry,

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Speaker 1: including the unions are definitely backing would be back in

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Speaker 1: the opponents. It just I just with this, this is

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Speaker 1: even this is is this is intense or more intense

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Speaker 1: than the Supreme Court kind of setting when you talk

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Speaker 1: about but how many lawyers intend just it's it's a big,

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Speaker 1: big undertaking. It's it's unpressed, as I said, unprecedented, And

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you for a couple of reasons, but one

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Speaker 1: really important one is Supreme Court has already sort of

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Speaker 1: seen a little bit of this picture. They've they've decided

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Speaker 1: something related to the Clean Power Plan already, and that

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Speaker 1: was back when Justice Scalia was still alive. So the

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Speaker 1: Clean Power Plan was stayed by the Supreme Court five

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Speaker 1: to four. If we assume Scalia's being that five that

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Speaker 1: fitth deciding vote for the conservative side of the of

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Speaker 1: the Court then were at four four, which means that

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Speaker 1: if if there's a split, the d C Circuit's opinion

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Speaker 1: will stay as is and and remain sort of the

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Speaker 1: the controlling opinion. So that puts a lot of emphasis

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Speaker 1: on what happens in the d C Circuit. And for

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Speaker 1: that reason, the d C Circuit said, well, look, we're

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Speaker 1: not going to just decide this on our normal three

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Speaker 1: judge panel. We're gonna take the entire panel of all

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Speaker 1: the judges that are on the court, uh less Merrick

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Speaker 1: Garland who recused himself, and and they're going to hear

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Speaker 1: the entire case. And they did it on their own

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Speaker 1: on which they've only done two other times. So you

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Speaker 1: say two hundred and eighteen minutes today? Right? Yes, sir? Uh?

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Speaker 1: What happens next? Give us the timeline? What can we

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Speaker 1: expect and how do we keep following this important case?

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Speaker 1: So hard to say exactly on the timeline because of

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Speaker 1: how the DC Circuit has done this by skipping one

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Speaker 1: of the segments that they normally do. But if we

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Speaker 1: assume that this is a regular case, the d C

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Speaker 1: Circuit typically does this in thirteen months or so. This

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Speaker 1: case was filed back in October of last year, so

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Speaker 1: we could see some sort of opinion coming out from

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Speaker 1: UM the court in mid December. Uh go from there,

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Speaker 1: there's the obvious appeal up to the Supreme Court that's

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Speaker 1: almost guaranteed at this point. UM. That would take you

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Speaker 1: through that process into potentially early until we have a

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Speaker 1: final decision. If you had to bet, how would you

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Speaker 1: bet this comes out? Well, I think right now, based

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Speaker 1: on what we saw in the argument today and how

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Speaker 1: the judges sort of split on ideological lines, the clean

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Speaker 1: power plant is looking pretty good. So if we assume

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Speaker 1: that that holds and then we go to a four

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Speaker 1: force split in the Screme Court, looks like the clean

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Speaker 1: power Plant could could stay relevant and stay in effect

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Speaker 1: moving forward. I want to thank you very much. Brandon Barnes,

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Speaker 1: Senior Litigation analyst for Energy for Bloomberg Intelligence, joining us

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Speaker 1: from Washington, d C. Home to Bloomberg one and one

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Speaker 1: oh five point seven h D two. You're listening to

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Speaker 1: taking Stock. I'm Pim Fox, my co host Captain Hayes.

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