1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: Welcome Behind the Bastards, the podcast about crimes against humanity. 2 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: I'm legally distinct from that mouse. I had to do it. 3 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: I hated it when you did it off, Mike and 4 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: you were just like making a joke to proper about 5 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:25,279 Speaker 1: news we need it. I really hated it. And like, 6 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: I don't think you sound like the mouse that you're 7 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: trying to take. I think you sound like, uh, he 8 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: sounds like Donald Glover in that episode of Atlanta when 9 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: he when he's not Michael Jackson. Michael jacks Ye oh 10 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: that was that was the episode of that show. Oh wait, wait, 11 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:45,160 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I need to go along with the bit. 12 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: Oh god, are you are you doing kit? I'm a mouse? 13 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: Would you like to talk about the starvation genocide of 14 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: an island? Well, if we need to something that the 15 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: creator of this mouse was probably broadly fine with. I 16 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: hope both of you gett made fun of on the internet. 17 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: Here's the thing. I feel like our level of like 18 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: cool can take this sort of hit. I feel like 19 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: it were we we can't be canceled for making Mickey 20 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: Mouse supportive of a genocide. And and I mean Kerman 21 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: is one of the most beloved frogs he is, he's 22 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: a meme. He drinks tea and everyone permit, would never 23 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 1: support a genocide, not not at all. I mean maybe 24 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 1: tacit Lee with his tax dollars because he's not really 25 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 1: a fighter. But we all do right now, and then 26 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: it's not really a bit. It's more of like a 27 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: mediation about the necessity of supporting terrible things just because 28 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 1: you exist within a society where you don't have total 29 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: control over cannot help the ocean. You can't help the 30 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: ocean from being saltwater. Yeah, those just is Yep, it 31 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: just is. It just doesn't tell you. Yeah, speaking of 32 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: alt water, are you ready to get salty? My god? 33 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: I mean just call me sodium chloride baby. At the 34 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:09,839 Speaker 1: end of last episode, we talked about Lord Hatesberry, who 35 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: was like, I don't think we know if his famine 36 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: thing is going to be a real problem yet, let's 37 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: she pulled off name on the nose. Now we're gonna 38 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: have another guy with a really horrible name. But he's 39 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: he's he's actually kind of chill, kind of cool. He's 40 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: not one of the real problems here, um, because there are, 41 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: it's worth noting. While overwhelmingly the English government allowed this 42 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: to happen and in many cases directly enabled the deaths 43 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: that are coming. Uh. There were people who were had 44 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 1: prominence in the government, like O'Connell that we've talked about, 45 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: but also folks who were English who tried very hard 46 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: to do something, and one of them was the unfortunately 47 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: named Sir Edward pine Coffin. Um, it doesn't seem like 48 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: the kind of guy who's going to try to help, 49 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: but Pine Coffin Edward pinecof And it spelled like, Okay, listen, 50 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: we're in a simulation. Bro, I'm Jina corps box. That's 51 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: his American cousin. Yeah, we're in a simulation because like 52 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: somebody wrote that script this well, yeah, one of the 53 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: fun things is actually in terms of coffins. So one 54 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: of the reasons you would want to go to like 55 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 1: a workhouse, and we'll talk about these more later, but 56 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: these are like the places poor people go well during 57 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: the worst parts of the famine is that when you die, 58 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,239 Speaker 1: you get a coffin, which you can't you can't afford 59 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: otherwise right there, you can't get that. That's good, so 60 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: you get a box, but also you don't because they 61 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: just put you in the common in the coffin long 62 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: enough to take you to the mass grave and then 63 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: they dump you in. Oh my god, they yo that 64 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: steering wheel just jerk to them. You got me in. 65 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: I was like, okay, well at least you get a 66 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: oh wait near man. And one of the things. So 67 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: with these mass graves, a decent number of people get 68 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: buried alive, which is the thing that always happens in 69 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: mass graves. You find a lot of stories like that 70 00:03:57,920 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: from the Holocaust. One of the differences in when they 71 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: realize someone is alive in the mass grave here they 72 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: do try to rescue, trying to get him out, as 73 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: opposed to like just shooting them more, which is what 74 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: the Nazis did. So I guess that's a marketing British Empires. No, 75 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:19,720 Speaker 1: it's not. Yeah, um so. Edward Pinecoffin is the Deputy 76 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: uh Commissioner of the government relief agency responsible for Ireland. 77 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: Scotland's potato crop had failed. Because again, this potato failure, 78 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: this is part of why people again reject calling it 79 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: the potato famine. There are failures of potato crops all 80 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: throughout Europe. It happens everywhere. The starvation happens in Ireland. 81 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 1: Um So, when Scotland's potato crop fails, Pine Coffin commandeers 82 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: a warship, fills it with food uh and sails around 83 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: the coast of Scotland, distributing it in starving villages. And 84 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: he tries to do the same thing in Ireland, but 85 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: Trevillian stops him because Travillion is the guy who controls 86 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: the purse drinks. So pine Coffin can't spend the money 87 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 1: he needs to fill these boats up with food without 88 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: Travali and say ahead. And while everybody's fine with that 89 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:07,919 Speaker 1: food with money getting spent on the Scottish uh, Travillians 90 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: like not these people? Though not these what's the difference? 91 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:17,359 Speaker 1: So pine Coffin has to watch helpless and pretty enraged 92 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: as like he's unable to take ships and food to Ireland. 93 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: But he keeps watching these ships filled with food depart 94 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: and increasingly starved island. Um So people begin dying heavily 95 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: in eighteen forty six, But before they a lot of 96 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: them are forced to make the decision do we spend 97 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 1: because we did have crops right which we can either 98 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: sell to pay our rent or we can eat. But 99 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: if we eat the food, that we have, then we 100 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: can't pay rent and we will get evicted right now. 101 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this. Bet Ireland prop 102 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 1: pretty wet. They're warm, not a warm part of the world, 103 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: not famous for its balmy weather. Um. Even in the summer, 104 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: it can be quite rough at night for people like it, 105 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: and especially during the fall and winter it gets very 106 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: cold and it's very wet. And by the way, these 107 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: people are so poor they don't have like like they 108 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 1: don't own jackets. Oftentimes they have sold basically there are 109 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: people sold everything, partly naked because they have sold anything 110 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: they have that could possibly be a value to try 111 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: to feed their children. So not without being indoors, people 112 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: will die UM. And if they don't sell their food 113 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 1: and turn it into rent money, they're gonna get kicked 114 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,359 Speaker 1: out and be in just like wandering the countryside and 115 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: they will starve to death or die of of um exposure. UM. 116 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: Being evicted is basically a death sentence for a lot 117 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: of people UM and this happens on a massive scale. 118 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: Whole villages are depopulated and sent just wandering muddy pathways 119 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: in the countryside, begging for help that often did not come, 120 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: and people begin to die in their thousands. Entire communities starve, 121 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: basically like kicked out of their homes. Um. Now, one 122 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 1: of the few options for sucker were the so called workhouses. 123 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 1: These were operated by local landlords. And again we've been 124 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: talking again. This is one of those situations where broadly speaking, 125 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: the landlords are the problem. There are individual landlords who 126 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: do do things like don't you don't have to pay rent? 127 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: You know, and you can find I would spend more 128 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: time reading their stories, but I'm worried it would kind 129 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: of take away from the people who are monsters. But 130 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: there are and and to his credit, Um Coogan, who's 131 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: the historian that's the major source for this, goes into 132 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: some detail. There are individual like landlords who do take 133 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: very reasonable steps to preserve life and put their profits. 134 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: And that is a thing that happens. And Um, it's 135 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: worth acknowledging that, not partly because it condemns the people 136 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: who don't do that. More it is not like every 137 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: landlord doesn't do the same thing. Some of them help, 138 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: you know. Um, And it's one of those things. Also 139 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: in terms of things we can criticize Peel for um, 140 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: even though he is probably the best politician of his 141 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:57,559 Speaker 1: day in terms of famine relief, who has any power? 142 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: Peel is adamant that local landlord should be the ones 143 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: dealing with the famine problem. It should be up to them, 144 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: right um. And this quote from Coogan's book makes it 145 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: clear how badly the situation tended to work, because you 146 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: have these kind of local landlords who are managing these workhouses. Quote. 147 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: A workhouse was built on the Martin estate at Clifton 148 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: and County Galway. Martin was an eccentric figure known for 149 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: his gambling, for his fearsome prowess as a duellist, and 150 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: for his kindness to animals, which led him to found 151 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals 152 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: and to be nicknamed Humanity Dick. Oh my god, hold 153 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: onto that for a second, Martin. Listen, we're in a simulation. 154 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: Somebody like you got a problem with humanity Dick. I 155 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: I don't, I just I again this story we really 156 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: need to go back to like the editor names, keep 157 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: telling the story. Both your names are spoiler alerts, like okay, 158 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:03,680 Speaker 1: Sanity Dick. Humanity Dick lived in splendor at Balinahinch Castle 159 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: on a huge estate, comprising some two hundred thousand acres 160 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: and including parts of Mayo and most of Connemara, that 161 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: incredibly beautiful but barren area of County Galway, stretching westward 162 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 1: from Galway City along Galway Bay, skirting the coastline until 163 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 1: it reaches the open Atlantic. A workhouse was built on 164 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: the estate at Clifton, even though it was notorious for 165 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: being crippled by debts, mainly through Martin's gambling. The King 166 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:27,679 Speaker 1: of Kunamara, as he was referred to in Ireland, had 167 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: had to flee the country several years earlier upon losing 168 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 1: his parliamentary immunity. On his death in eighteen thirty four, 169 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 1: his son Thomas became his heir. During the famine, Thomas 170 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: died from a fever contracted while inspecting the awful conditions 171 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: in the overcrowded workhouse, which could not cope with the 172 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: demands placed upon it. The workhouse went bankrupt and had 173 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: to close, with catastrophic results for its inmates, Clifton and 174 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: its environs. The Martin estate was subsequently put up for auction, 175 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,079 Speaker 1: and one of its principal attractions, as cited by the auctioneers, 176 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: was the fact that none of the tenants who had 177 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: lived on the estate before the famine lived there any 178 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: long grew. Given the population density peraker at the time, 179 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,439 Speaker 1: this could have indicated a death toll of some two 180 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: thousand people. So because this family of rich people goes bankrupt, 181 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: there is no help and potentially two people starved to death. 182 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: And what's this area alone? What do you do in 183 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: a workhouse? Is it like it's just called workhouse? Yeah, 184 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:25,559 Speaker 1: I mean you there, there's basically you receive a small 185 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: amount of food, um, and you do you work like. 186 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: There's different kind of things they have you do. Some 187 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: of these people are like the ones who are digging, 188 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: these who are building these roads to nowhere and ship like. 189 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 1: There's a variety of things that they might have you do. 190 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: But they're also not A ton of people can fit 191 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: in these workhouses. They are the difference between life and 192 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: death for some people. But the fact that they are 193 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 1: they're not funded by the imperial government and out of 194 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: by these local landlords, which means if your landlords doing good, 195 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: and if he's someone who's financially responsible, maybe your workhouse 196 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: is a lifeline. But in amara this family are because 197 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: of their gambling debts, like loses everything, and that means 198 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: there's just there's no fucking help for these people. And yeah, 199 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: like two people starved to death. Um, yeah, it's a problem. 200 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,079 Speaker 1: That's not good. That's that's a lot of people to 201 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: starve to death. Um. Maybe the biggest consequence of a 202 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: gambling addiction that we've run across on this show. Pretty 203 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: up there, it's pretty up there. Yeah, humanity dick. If 204 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: only he'd had some help, Um, humanity dick. So this 205 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: brings what an incredible name, And this brings us to 206 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: a particularly horrifying fact, which is, again, the failure of 207 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: the potato crop was not the biggest part of the famine. 208 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: The massivevictions of Irish tenants by landlords killed most like 209 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: at least as many people, if not many more people. Um. 210 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:51,959 Speaker 1: And here's the thing we've been focusing mostly on, Like, 211 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: because the crops fail, like they have to either buy 212 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: food or they can't pay their rent, Like a whole 213 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: bunch of things happened. Ship gets too expensive, they can't 214 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: afford their rent, and they get have died. Right, that's 215 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: the most obvious way for this to happen. That's not 216 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: the only reason evictions happen. So you know how Instagram 217 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: works in what way you know, how like there's there's 218 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: someone will like decide to paint their nails in like 219 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: a certain very elaborate way and do a video on it, 220 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: and suddenly that will go huge, and then like there's 221 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: a bunch of videos like that. You know that that 222 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:23,319 Speaker 1: kind of thing works like trends, you know, such just Instagram, 223 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: but like things get popular and then everybody wants to 224 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: do a version of that same thing. Well, that kind 225 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: of happens with rich landlords and a thing called high farming. 226 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: High farming, yeah, which is basically like clearing areas of 227 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: agriculture in the way that it had been done in 228 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 1: order to make more room for to gray sheep in 229 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 1: order to like raise a bunch of sheep. Basically, so 230 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: all these landlords their friends start doing this um and 231 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: the problem is that, like, if you want to clear 232 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: all of your land to gray sheep, to to be 233 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: hip and cool and get into this neat new farming 234 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: thing that all your friends are doing, well, there's like 235 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: there's like people there, right, there's people that live on 236 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 1: his land. There's like there's like tens of thousands, maybe 237 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of people living on that land, but 238 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: it is your land and you have the right to 239 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: evict him at any moment. So you wanna get up 240 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 1: on this trend, what do you do? Victim people? You 241 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: give victim all. This is what happens because it's not 242 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: like we can grow crops, well, no, you want to 243 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 1: you it's time for sheep. She was gonna say, and yeah, 244 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: that's like, that's so, that's so we've done crops. That's yeah, 245 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: that's that's last. Everybody does crops. I want to do sheet. 246 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: So Lord Lord Luken evicts four hundred families and his 247 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: mayo estates during like the rising peak of the famine 248 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: in order to clear get grazing area for sheep um. 249 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: And again this is because this has gotten like really 250 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: popular from the aristocraphy, from the aristocracy, and so a 251 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 1: lot of these rich people start getting into sheep farming 252 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: and evicting whole village. These are ethnic cleansings. They are 253 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: cleansing an area of its indigenous population. Where do they 254 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: and where do you expect them to go? They're just 255 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: gonna yeah, not, why would it be your problem. It's 256 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: your land. You can have them leave if you want, 257 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: you know, they don't like. That's not that's not on you. 258 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:13,719 Speaker 1: Yeah cost him. There's more money and because and even you, 259 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: you can't feed yourself anymore. So yeah, so I might 260 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: as well kick you off and try this new thing, 261 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: and that way I can be cool like my friends. 262 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: So it is proper hard to exaggerate how enraging some 263 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: of these stories can be. Oh my god. The village 264 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: of balin Glass was a fairly rare find in Ireland. 265 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: The people there had been allowed by their landlady to 266 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: improve their land um, and they had created a very 267 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: prosperous community. Um. So prosperous in fact that they all 268 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: lived in stone houses, which was very rare at the time. 269 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: I think there were sixty one families, so a few 270 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: hundred people. So after years of clearing bog land and 271 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: improving their land in order to make it more productive, 272 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: improvements which probably would have allowed them to survive the 273 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 1: famine because they've done it, they've been able to do 274 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: a really good job of improving things. Suddenly their landlady, 275 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: Miss Gerard, decides she wants to get into high farming, 276 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: so she evicts them all um kicks him ride out, 277 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 1: kicks him ride out and I'm gonna quote from the 278 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: Famine plot here. On the morning of March forty six, 279 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: an attachment of troops and police showed up to eject 280 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: the people from their homes. Their belongings were thrown out 281 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: and the roofs of their houses tumbled. It was made 282 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: clear to the people in surrounding areas that if they 283 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: took in the e vict s, they would suffer the 284 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: same fate, and so the evicted people passed from door 285 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: to door vainly seeking shelter. In desperation, they erected temporary 286 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: shelters and ditches, or constructed what would become a common 287 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: sight that year across the Irish countryside scalps. These considered 288 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: consisted either of poles covered by sods that were stretched 289 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: across a ditch, or, if the ditches were filled with water, 290 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: as they frequently were, they simply dug a hole in 291 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: the ground or in the shelter end of a gable 292 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: and their tumbled house, and covered this with sticks and sods, 293 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: but in balin glasses elsewhere. The bailiffs returned in the 294 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: days following the evictions to destroy the scalps and move 295 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: people out of the landlord's land. So again when they 296 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: say tumbling, they in order to stop anyone from reoccupying 297 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: a house, they destroy the roof, just the roof, that's all. 298 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: Then then it'll rain in there and people can't stay, 299 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: can't keep a fire going, I won't keep you warm, right, Okay, 300 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: so you're so you're so efficient at evil, but like 301 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: you're all thumbs on doing anything decent like that is 302 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: like you just saying, well, you said there're stone houses, 303 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: so it would be a lot more effort or work, 304 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: so it's more efficient to just let the rain do 305 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: the work. I'll just knock the roof down. So so 306 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: you can think, yeah, that's that is that is in 307 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: the most perverse way, the shortest distance between two points, 308 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, it makes perfect sense. It makes perfect sense. 309 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: And if y'all could not figure out how to not 310 00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: have how to not have your people start are okay? Yeah, 311 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: I mean I think a lot reading this about. I 312 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time because Portland has a substantial 313 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: population of unhoused people in and around just as part 314 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: of my daily life. Encampments and a lot of them 315 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: sound very familiar in that because it's also very rainy here, 316 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 1: you will have people who will like kind of set 317 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: up lean to type structures that are partly in ditches 318 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:24,679 Speaker 1: because it provides some shelter from the wind. But then 319 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 1: when it rains, they flood right. Um, And no matter 320 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 1: what people do, the cops are going to come by 321 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 1: periodically and sweep them out. And so oftentimes they'll do 322 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:34,679 Speaker 1: it right before a storm or right before you know, 323 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:39,199 Speaker 1: the temperature drops and ship. Um you know that. I 324 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: mean they're literally sending cops to kick people out of there, 325 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 1: like crumbled down houses and knocked down with little shelters 326 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: they've been able to make. Um yo, it's not even 327 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 1: a house. Yeah, Like, come on, guys, this is an 328 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: eviction genocide, which I don't know that I've heard about before. 329 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: That's what's happening here. So back in Merry Old angel And, 330 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: the suffering of the Irish was often caused for mockery 331 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: in the press. That same year, the economist magazine Yeah 332 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 1: that one, the one that's still around, alleged that Irish 333 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: suffering had been quote brought on by their own wickedness 334 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 1: and folly. The Times, Yeah baby, yeah, the economist there 335 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: it is good job economists. Hey, don't worry, there's other 336 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: people we know who we're talking In this period of time, 337 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: The Times of London, which also exists today, published articles 338 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: on Ireland every single day. Its message was dizzying Lee 339 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: consistent the Imperial Government should not spend money on Irish 340 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: relief and I'm gonna quote from RTE here. The worst 341 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 1: famine in a century was depicted as an extension of normal, 342 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 1: recurring events, and the newspaper consistently complained about the financial 343 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: burdens forced on British workers for the sake of the 344 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 1: starving Irish. On fifteen September eighteen forty six, it's editorial declared, 345 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: it appears to us at the very first important to 346 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: all classes of Irish society is to impress on them 347 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: that there is nothing really so peculiar, so exceptional in 348 00:18:57,800 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 1: the condition which they look upon as the pit of 349 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:04,640 Speaker 1: utter despair. It continued, is the English laborer to compensate 350 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: the Irish peasant for the loss of potatoes and secure 351 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 1: him a regular employer for this next twelve month? Why 352 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: the English laborer isn't just the same case? They were not? 353 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,479 Speaker 1: They were not, They were not? They weren't they sure weren't. 354 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,959 Speaker 1: Um Now, The Times argued that Ireland should pay for 355 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 1: its own improvement, which you might say, shipping six of 356 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: the food they're out to England in other places is 357 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 1: paying for y'all either not hearing yourself or know what 358 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: the hell you say it? Well the times his argument 359 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 1: is that because people were suffering, and because suffering only 360 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: really happens when you are not willing to work to 361 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: make your life better, the fact that things were desperate 362 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: in Ireland, it was an example of quote a case 363 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: of permanent and inveterate national degradation. Yeah, yep, yeah, I 364 00:19:55,320 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: just like I can't I can't st s enough. How 365 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: in how the same artists it's the like, that's the same, 366 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:12,120 Speaker 1: it's the same argument. It's the same argument now, and 367 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: and it just and like I'm like, but we can 368 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: all look back at the same we can all rewind 369 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: the tape to the same moment and can see how 370 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: wrong they are for saying that, Like you can see 371 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 1: that that's not there, that that's your fault, that they 372 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:33,880 Speaker 1: can't eat you can So how are people still making 373 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: the same argument now about poverty? Yeah, it is the same, 374 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 1: Like that's the thing. It's not it's what always happens, 375 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 1: you know, It's this it must be their own fault, 376 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 1: because if it's not their own fault, and perhaps number one, 377 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: I would have to account for the fact that maybe 378 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: my success and my the things that I enjoy not 379 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: due to me doing anything to earn it. But also 380 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: then perhaps if it's not their fault at all, and 381 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 1: maybe it is the fault of a system that I 382 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: benefit from, then it is incumbent upon me to make 383 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: some changes. Um. Yes, and there is way harder than 384 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: just writing a column for the Economist, which is why 385 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: people still write so many columns for the Economists. Absolutely absolutely, 386 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: But you're you're nailing on something that I think is like, 387 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: I know, whenever I'm asked to do any sort of 388 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: like d I training, it's that. It's that because if 389 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: you admit that there was somebody suffering from this system unfairly, 390 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: then that means you are unfairly being benefited for you 391 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: And there's nothing special about your little nose you that. Yeah, 392 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 1: that's not going to be popular to the people who 393 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: read the Times of London, but you know it is 394 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:44,959 Speaker 1: popular to the people who read the Times of London. 395 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: Every last one of these problems and services massive thing, 396 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,120 Speaker 1: big followings in Europe, you guys may not know about 397 00:21:54,160 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: it really big, so check it out. Ah, and we're bachman, 398 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: we're back man. So in the winter of eighteen forty seven, 399 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: after this is like the third successive failure of the 400 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 1: potato crop. Right. The famine had already killed hundreds of 401 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: thousands of people. Culture, art, music had all come to 402 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 1: a sudden, horrid halt in Ireland as it was gripped 403 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: by unimaginable suffering. Just before Christmas, a landlord named Walsh 404 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 1: in Mayo personally led the eviction of three villages. Local 405 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: clergy had begged him to at least wait until after 406 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 1: the holiday, but he refused. Homes were destroyed and everyone 407 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,400 Speaker 1: was forced out. One Quaker engaged in relief efforts later 408 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 1: wrote quote, the people were all turned out of doors 409 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,919 Speaker 1: and the roofs of their houses pulled down. That night 410 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 1: they made a tinterer shelter of wooden straw, but however, 411 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 1: the drivers the bailiffs threw them down and drove them 412 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: from the place. It would have pitied the sun to 413 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: look at them, as they had to go headfirst into 414 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 1: the storm. It was a night of high window and storm, 415 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: and whaling could be heard at a great distance. They 416 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,160 Speaker 1: implored the drivers to allow them to remain a short 417 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: time as it was so near the time of festival Christmas, 418 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 1: but they would not. Previously a hundred and two families 419 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,399 Speaker 1: had lived in the area, but after the eviction only 420 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,199 Speaker 1: the walls of three houses remained. And it's one of 421 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: those things. These evictions are being carried out by both 422 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: local law enforcement and by English soldiers UM like soldiers 423 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:26,640 Speaker 1: of the occupation, and a lot of these guys are 424 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: shocked by the cruelty of the landlords that they're enforcing 425 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 1: evictions for UM. There are cases of officers asked to 426 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: use their troops to enforce evictions who found reasons to 427 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: deny the requests. UM. In one case in particular, Scottish 428 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 1: soldiers lodged protests against being forced to evict families and 429 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: even took up collections to give money to the people 430 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 1: they were evicting. Now the evictions continued, so this maybe 431 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 1: perhaps we should as we acknowledge the fact that people 432 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: felt horrible about this. That didn't stop anything as a 433 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,400 Speaker 1: general rule, UM, and these small acts of kindness did 434 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,360 Speaker 1: nothing to alleviate suffering on a broader scale. I want 435 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: to quote now from another write up in our te 436 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: By eighteen forty seven, the sheer scale of eviction across 437 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: Ireland prompted newspapers to employ special correspondents who visited the 438 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 1: scene of clearances. Among the reporters in the field was 439 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: James McCarthy, proprietor of the Limerick Examiner, who led the 440 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: way in reporting on the scenes of havoc and despair. 441 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: McCarthy had no shortage of material to report on, particularly 442 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 1: in Counties Claire and Tipporary reporters like McCarthy were successful 443 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,120 Speaker 1: in harnessing public opinion and in some instances preventing eviction. 444 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 1: It was often a perilous task, and McCarthy was assailed 445 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,679 Speaker 1: and insulted in the discharge of his duty by some 446 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: of the disgruntled wretches who were employed in leveling the 447 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,399 Speaker 1: houses of the evicted tenants. Yet he was undeterred in 448 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: reporting eviction, including at the Walter estate in Limerick, where 449 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: he described the evicted being left to burrow into the 450 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:52,400 Speaker 1: earth for shelter. The so called exterminators were frequently challenged 451 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: by the local press, who were quick to report on 452 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: the sensational aspects of eviction, especially where women and young 453 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: children were rejected. Follow evictions at the Westrip estate and Claire, 454 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: it was reported that the body of a young boy 455 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 1: had been found dead and eaten by dogs. Likewise, when 456 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: Arthur Keeley Usher cleared over seven hundred people at bally 457 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,679 Speaker 1: sagart More Waterford was bally saggart More Waterford, it was 458 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 1: reported that groups of famished women and crying children hovered 459 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: the ruins where they clung for refuge beneath the crumbling chimneys. 460 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: And again when we talk about like what kills people, 461 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,360 Speaker 1: some people do starve to death, some people die of exposure. 462 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 1: A lot of people buy of disease because disease spreads rampantly. 463 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: And you know, when you're kicking people out, you're forcing 464 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: them into workhouses, You're you're they're just spending nights out. 465 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,120 Speaker 1: You know, they don't have access to shelter, which makes 466 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: their immune systems where it's also the potatoes they were 467 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: eating were high invitement c so the fact that they 468 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: don't have vitamin Like there's a number of things that 469 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 1: are happening. We talked about like what's killing people, but 470 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 1: as much as anything, this is an eviction genocide. That's 471 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,360 Speaker 1: a big part of what is occurring in Ireland. Um, 472 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: there was no organized resistance on a mass scale to 473 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: a vis within the country. Uh, there were scattered murders 474 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,919 Speaker 1: and assaults on mayors and landlords, often from these kind 475 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: of secret society groups we talked about in part of 476 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: the victors were not just absentee landlords and members of 477 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 1: the aristocracy. Many of them were members of the growing 478 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 1: English and Irish middle class who had purchased land prior 479 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 1: to the famine or during its early days when people 480 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 1: were forced to flee their homes and so long I 481 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 1: went up for cheap um. And it's worth noting that 482 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 1: the largest landholder in Ireland during the famine UM, and 483 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 1: as a result one of the largest victors was Trinity 484 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:38,679 Speaker 1: College in Dublin, UM which yeah, yeah, they were one 485 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: of these. So this is not I can see the 486 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: leadership is coming kind of from the UK, but the 487 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 1: plenty of Irish people are part of this, you know. Yeah, 488 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 1: another tale as old as time, and I get, I mean, 489 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: I guess it's like, yeah, you can see it, like 490 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: if you can, just if you don't think of it 491 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: as like you know, old timey stuff and just think 492 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: of it as just like you're just playing the numbers, 493 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,400 Speaker 1: and especially especially talking about this like rising middle crap 494 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: middle class, they're like, yo, we ain't gotta we gotta 495 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:18,360 Speaker 1: nest egg Like there's we don't. We don't come from 496 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,880 Speaker 1: all that. We were barely getting this piece of land, 497 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: and the only way for us to keep this land 498 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: is we gotta pivot. I can't be having y'all on 499 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: my land. I'm just gonna lose it, Like Lord, Lord 500 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 1: forbid me become one of you again, you know what 501 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: I'm saying. So if you're playing a numbers game, you know, 502 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 1: forgetting the humanity, it's like it's it's it's again, no 503 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: different than than the world we're living in now during 504 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,119 Speaker 1: like I said, our plague, but people being like I 505 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: still have to pay the mortgage, so like I can't rent, 506 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: I can't not collect rent. So it's like, I mean, 507 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: I don't know what to say, like I sucks, but 508 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: I have to evict you, or maybe it don't suck 509 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 1: because you just like why have I mean I can't 510 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: I have to st Yeah, none of these landlords, I 511 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 1: mean some of them are these just cartoonishly out of 512 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:10,439 Speaker 1: touch rich people who are like, well, I would like 513 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,400 Speaker 1: to have the you know, I went to graze sheep. 514 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: Now let's get them off the land. But most people 515 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: don't like to feel like monsters. Like as a general rule, 516 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: the people who are a part of this eviction genocide 517 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: are not being like you know, they're finding ways to 518 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: be like, well, this is just what oftentimes it is. 519 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,640 Speaker 1: I mean, it's still pretty dire because they're saying that, like, well, 520 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 1: I'm a Malthusian and I believe that you know, overpopulation 521 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,360 Speaker 1: the only thing that happens when there's overpopulation, that that's 522 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 1: what causes famine. Right, Rather than famine being a thing 523 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: that happens and kills people, famine is caused by people 524 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: breeding out of control. And so the real problem is 525 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: that they bread and it's sad and it's tragic. But 526 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: if we just feed them, then they're only going to 527 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,239 Speaker 1: breed more and that's just gonna cause more of a Right, 528 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: people find ways to justify it, to feel like it's 529 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: not they're not complicit in something nightmarish, as they always do, right, 530 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 1: as everybody who's implicit in something nightmarish is done throughout history. Um. Now, 531 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: it's worth noting that some of these evictions mirrored acts 532 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: of genocide committed by the US government. One of the 533 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: most striking was the Dulo Lake incident. This occurred between 534 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: March thirty and thirty first, eighteen forty nine. A number 535 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: of starving famine victims were ordered to show up at 536 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: Louisbourg and be checked to see if they deserved relief tickets. Now, 537 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 1: this is what it sounds like. This is again. Eventually 538 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 1: there get some like plans implanted where people can get 539 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: tickets that will entitle them to like some food and 540 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: supplies and whatnot. Um So, these people who are all 541 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,959 Speaker 1: actively starving to death and often homeless, they assemble, they 542 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: all go to Louisbourg and in some cases means while starving, 543 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: they have to walk miles to get there. Um So 544 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:43,959 Speaker 1: they show up at this place to try to get 545 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: tickets that will give them the food they need to 546 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 1: not starve to death. And they are told when they arrive, oh, 547 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: there's been a mistake, and the people who can evaluate 548 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: you are actually sixteen kilometers away at this hunting So 549 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: you've got to go walk there now, right, um So, 550 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: four to six hundred people, maybe more like a thousand, 551 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 1: it's really not exactly known, spend the night sleeping out 552 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: in the freezing rain, because what else are they going 553 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: to do? And then they march sixteen kilometers to this lodge, 554 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 1: and when they arrive, the relief commissioners like, oh, we're 555 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 1: actually eating right now, and we can't bother people while 556 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: they're having their lunch, so you're going to have to 557 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 1: wait until people finish eating. So the crowd, who does 558 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: not provided with food, of course, sits around starving after 559 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: their long walk while these commissioners eat. And then when 560 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 1: the commissioners finished eating, they're able to meet with them, 561 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 1: and the commissioners are saying, oh, I'm so sorry, but 562 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 1: you don't qualify for relief. Actually we don't have any 563 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 1: food for you. There's nothing here. I'm so sorry. Brittis 564 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: is your British is pretty uh, pretty spot on right 565 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: now and really in the moment, maybe it's just because 566 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: I'm so furious that these people, while wiping flavorless, flavorless grades, 567 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 1: seasoned season off your job being like, oh we have 568 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: nothing for you. My God, get some guards. So these 569 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: folks have their guards drive this horde of starving people 570 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: away and forced them to march miles back in the 571 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: frigid rain, where a bunch of them die. The bodies 572 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: of at least seven people are found by the side 573 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: of Dulo Lake, having starved on the way back. Other 574 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: people are swept into the lake by a mud side 575 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 1: and slide and drown. And this is this whole situation 576 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: is like fucked up, And shall Darius say, Terry gilliamy enough, 577 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: this is really some like Brazil ship. Yeah, yeah, that it. 578 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: It becomes pretty significant news internationally, and it gets back 579 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: to the United States and some of the people who 580 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: read about what happens at Dulo Lake are Choctaw people, 581 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: indigenous Americans. Now, eight years earlier, the Choctaw had been 582 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: forced on a death march from Mississippi to Oklahoma by 583 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: the United States government. And so eight years not a 584 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: long time, still dealing very much with the effects of 585 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: this fucking death march. The Choctaw here about what has 586 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: happened to these Irish people, and despite being desperately impoverished, 587 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: they take up a collection and get there's seven dollars 588 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 1: worth of money, which is a lot at the time, 589 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 1: and send it to Ireland for relief. Um wow, yeah, 590 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: and uh that is still very much remembered by the 591 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: Irish people today. There's a monument to the Choctaw. I'm 592 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: not sure in Ireland as like there are people who 593 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 1: give more, but there's no one who gives more and 594 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: has less than the child exactly. You know, um that 595 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: this is something that that has never been forgotten to 596 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 1: this day, speaking of that, speaking of that unread Bible 597 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: like yet another, yet another story Jesus talked about. We've 598 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: we've talked about how there's a lot of solidarity in 599 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 1: Ireland with the Palestinian cause because they recognize and there 600 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 1: that's the same thing the chocolate. They are looking at 601 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: this and being like, oh, ship, no, we know what 602 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 1: that's like. Yes, suffering like to be type like suffering 603 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: like nice people. It's like a type of empathy. You 604 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, where you just like why I 605 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: have the capacity to understand and to have a heartbreaking 606 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: for the people of Ukraine and and the people of Yemen, 607 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 1: and you know what I'm saying, the people of the 608 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: Tigray region in Ethiopia. You know what I'm saying, Like 609 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: I have capacity for all that because I've suffered in the 610 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: the fact that you're trying to make a choice between 611 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: which one of these things I need to care about 612 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 1: is so indicative of exactly what these these people did 613 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: in this incident. It is my job to judge whether 614 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 1: you're worthy of my mercy. It's I think when when 615 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:29,960 Speaker 1: I have had conversations with Irish people about the Great Hunger, 616 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: this is the story that probably gets brought up more 617 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: than any other. Is the Choctaw donation. I think just incredible, 618 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: such an emotionally affecting story. So throughout all of this, 619 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 1: Travillion and the other public officials and politicians are adamant 620 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 1: that landlords cannot be forced to keep tenants on their land, 621 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: nor could they forcibly reduce rent. Right. That's a violation 622 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: of the landlords right if you put any kind of 623 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,959 Speaker 1: rent control, and we can't do that. Um. But the 624 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: scale of suffering was titanic enough by the late eighteen 625 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 1: forties that the Eight and Good felt a need to donate. 626 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 1: Sir Charles Wood Travillions Boss donated two hundred pounds sterling 627 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: to famine relief. Queen Victoria gives two thousand pounds. That's 628 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 1: very nice. That's got to be a significant chunk of 629 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 1: her She probably doesn't have much more than two thousand pounds, right. 630 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,359 Speaker 1: The Queen Queen Doria, that's all she could afford. Um. 631 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: The Pope gives a thousand The Pope, you know in Rome, 632 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 1: gives a thousand pounds in an aid. You want to 633 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:36,479 Speaker 1: guess how much Chucky Trevillian gives. I'm gonna peas. Yeah, 634 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:41,360 Speaker 1: you fucking give you? You mean just that's literally, that 635 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 1: is an amount to just be able to say I donated, right, Yeah, 636 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:51,319 Speaker 1: fuck yourself all day and twice on Sunday. I want 637 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 1: telling me the oldest you. I didn't know this play 638 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: was this old for rich people to just donate to 639 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 1: a charity. I didn't know that that play was that play. 640 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: It has stood the test of time. So rather than 641 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 1: understanding that you are the problem and you could easily 642 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: solve it, just donate to a cause, like I am impressed. 643 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 1: Did rich people have figured out how to do it? 644 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: Is Travalion is the one that's easiest to make fun 645 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: of here. I think the Queen and the Catholic Church 646 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,319 Speaker 1: should actually get more ship. And I'm going to read 647 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 1: a quote here from Tim pat Coogan about why so 648 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,719 Speaker 1: we're gonna start with the pope. The people of Rome 649 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,360 Speaker 1: contributed generously to Irish relief as did a few cardinals, 650 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,840 Speaker 1: but no masterpieces from the Vatican's art collection were removed 651 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 1: for sale to help supplement the appeal, and it is 652 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,759 Speaker 1: likely that the amount of money that was collected came 653 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 1: mainly not as a result of the Pope's letter, but 654 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:49,400 Speaker 1: from the generosity of the Irish Catholic diaspora, particularly from America. 655 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 1: In fact, that the height of the famine, it was 656 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,400 Speaker 1: the Irish who sent money to the pope. In eighteen 657 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: forty nine, the Pope was on the run because Republican 658 00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 1: forces had temporarily driven him from the Vatican. The Wish 659 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 1: bishops were ordered to take up a colleption collection to 660 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: help defray papal expenses. To judge from a letter to 661 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: the Archbishop of Dublin, Dr. Murray, this appeal much of 662 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,319 Speaker 1: must have realized much more than the Pope's gift of 663 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: a thousand pounds, so the Irish, while starving, donate more 664 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 1: money in the pope anyway funds, and again this is 665 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 1: This is not to say one of the most effective 666 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:26,399 Speaker 1: forces for relief is the Catholic churches in Ireland, which 667 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 1: are supported financially by the Irish people, not by the 668 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,719 Speaker 1: Church in Rome. Right not to not to cut them 669 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: out of this, because there's a lot of Catholic clergy 670 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,319 Speaker 1: who do a ton during this period, just not the 671 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,520 Speaker 1: fucking pope. Just not him, you know. Um. One of 672 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,439 Speaker 1: the more interesting donors is Sultan Abdul Messid of Turkey. Right, 673 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 1: he's the Ottoman leader. He wants to give he's very 674 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 1: moved by the suffering of the Irish people. He wants 675 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,160 Speaker 1: to donate ten tho pounds, right, That is a ton 676 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,320 Speaker 1: of money back in the day, that's a lot of money. 677 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,480 Speaker 1: But when he says he goes to the British bastards 678 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 1: like I've got I'm gonna give. I want to give 679 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 1: ten thousand pounds to relieve, to try to help these people, 680 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,920 Speaker 1: And the British ambassador says, well, you know, that's a 681 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,840 Speaker 1: very nice gift, sir, But you see the Queen's given 682 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 1: two thousand pounds and you can't you can't say her gift. 683 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: You know, that would be quite improper. You know what 684 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: people thinking about her clouds fucking Queen Victoria. Yeah, my gosh, now, okay, 685 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: it is worth noting to the Sultan's credit. When he's like, 686 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 1: all right, well, I can't donate as much cash as 687 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 1: I want to. He fills five boats with grain and 688 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: he sends them to Ireland at his own expense to 689 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,800 Speaker 1: feed the starving Turkish soldiers. It's said have to unload 690 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,000 Speaker 1: the grain in secret at night in order to avoid 691 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,520 Speaker 1: embarrassing the royal family. Oh my god, day that petty. 692 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 1: That family been petty for that long. Okay, and yeah, 693 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,600 Speaker 1: the Turkeys. So it's like, if you talk, you already 694 00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 1: an empire. So you I mean, it's not like you 695 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 1: don't empathize. It's like the Sultan's not like out, you know, 696 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 1: he's hurtin. Yeah. I was like, he's a sultan. Yes 697 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,839 Speaker 1: he's fine, but at least that's not nothing, you know, 698 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,560 Speaker 1: that's a meaningful that's a meaningful attempt to relieve stuff, 699 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:17,399 Speaker 1: like his little piece of like understanding of like, well, 700 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: of course I don't want to upstate the queen. I mean, 701 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,279 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm assaulted. I wouldn't want to be upstage either. 702 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,040 Speaker 1: So it is what we're gonna do. We're gonna slide 703 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 1: this in there because y'all trip in. But I get it. 704 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 1: You don't just like slide this in there under the Yeah, 705 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 1: And I just wonder if you're a Turk your soldier 706 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 1: if you're just like, man, what hi, alright, alright, I 707 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 1: guess okay, you know. Yeah, there's a line in Tim 708 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,960 Speaker 1: pat Coogan's book that I found interesting. I can't vouch 709 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,239 Speaker 1: for it because I'm not Irish, but he points out that, 710 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:48,520 Speaker 1: like obviously you know, in World War One, Irish soldiers 711 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 1: are a major part of the effort at the Battle 712 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 1: of Gallipoli, which is this shipload because the British Empires 713 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 1: forces get their asses handed to them by the turkicle. 714 00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:58,839 Speaker 1: I mean, it's not to say that it's an easy 715 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 1: it's a nightmare. It's one of the battles there's been 716 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 1: in the history of warfare. And Tim past glibly Glippoli, 717 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 1: Tim tie Hugan makes a point that like at today, 718 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 1: there's no more ill will from the Irish towards the 719 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,319 Speaker 1: Turks for the casualties at the Battle of Gallipoli, but 720 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 1: there are still monuments to the Turkish soldiers who came 721 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 1: and like handed out delivered fo Yeah you really do, 722 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,960 Speaker 1: I mean you remember friends, Yeah, yeah, you remember whose 723 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:31,720 Speaker 1: graces to you? Yea? So Charles travallion Um issued copies 724 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,080 Speaker 1: of Adam Smith's books to his employees carrying out relief 725 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 1: operations in Ireland. He told them that they should be 726 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:41,520 Speaker 1: used as guides and handling how to feed the starving. Now, 727 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,160 Speaker 1: this does not mean that Trevillion did nothing that was capable. 728 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,640 Speaker 1: In fact, he helped to organize a network of soup 729 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:51,400 Speaker 1: kitchens from late eighty seven, which were a fairly effective 730 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,879 Speaker 1: relief effort and helped stop several significant number of people 731 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,360 Speaker 1: from dying. That said, it's not like the soup kitchens 732 00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 1: were his idea. You know, he was just like the 733 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,960 Speaker 1: guy who wound up helping to organize them. Um, and 734 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:04,759 Speaker 1: he was one of the people. A lot of folks 735 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 1: did see them as dangerous, as bad for the Irish spirit, 736 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: because it would encourage indolence. Travellian typified the feelings of 737 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:15,239 Speaker 1: many English civil servants when he said, the judgment of 738 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,239 Speaker 1: God sent the calamity to teach the Irish lesson that 739 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: calamity must not be too much mitigated. The real evil 740 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,360 Speaker 1: with which we have to contend is not the physical 741 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,360 Speaker 1: evil of the famine, but the moral evil of the selfish, 742 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:31,160 Speaker 1: perverse and turbulent character of the people. So it's like 743 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:35,480 Speaker 1: it's just God sent the famine to Ireland to teach 744 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,560 Speaker 1: the Irish something, and so we can't help them too much. 745 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,919 Speaker 1: We can't save too many lives because that would piss 746 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,879 Speaker 1: God off. Piss God God and Adam Smith, who are 747 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 1: basically the same to Chucky Truth, Chuckiele Clearly you're just 748 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:53,400 Speaker 1: like we it's already happening to him, and we all 749 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,399 Speaker 1: already know you to cause of it. Let that be 750 00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,800 Speaker 1: enough for you to have to keep giving these speeches 751 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,480 Speaker 1: like this somehow my fault is. I'm just like that's 752 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,920 Speaker 1: where I'm just like, now you're now you're pissing on 753 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,120 Speaker 1: my grave. Okay, Like if you could at least just 754 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 1: yeah to me, like that's the salt in the would 755 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,000 Speaker 1: that you keep that y'all keep saying that this is 756 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:20,399 Speaker 1: God's will because this is all fault. Like that's when 757 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,880 Speaker 1: you when when it's just when you're just ready to 758 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:26,040 Speaker 1: throw a chair, it's like, I feel like it's that feeling. 759 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,000 Speaker 1: Well it's not as bad, but it's that feeling when 760 00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,759 Speaker 1: somebody when a politician get on the especially like a 761 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:33,880 Speaker 1: like a like a white boy get on the stage 762 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,240 Speaker 1: and be like, well, if Martin Luther King was alive today, 763 00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:37,920 Speaker 1: he would say, I'm like I'm gonna throw a chair 764 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:43,840 Speaker 1: at you. I'm like, that's like, I just want to 765 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,440 Speaker 1: throw a chair. Like there's a thousand chick Dr King's 766 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:54,919 Speaker 1: name out your fucking mouth. I mean, yeah, there's that's 767 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,880 Speaker 1: one thing. Like the guy said a lot, like you 768 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:03,160 Speaker 1: don't have to put words in his mouth and spoke 769 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 1: on a bunch of stuff. Actually spokes a lot of 770 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,600 Speaker 1: things that are relevant to this story. Yes, I'm pretty 771 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,160 Speaker 1: sure happening the story we talked about right now. He 772 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,480 Speaker 1: had a number of opinions on free market economics. Actually, 773 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:22,120 Speaker 1: I tell you what, you don't have to invent things anyway. 774 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 1: You do if you want him to sound like he 775 00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:27,799 Speaker 1: agrees with something else, because you know, there's Martin Luther King, 776 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,680 Speaker 1: and then there's Martin Luther King. You know, there's there's 777 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,360 Speaker 1: the media Martin Luther King. That is easy for anybody 778 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,759 Speaker 1: to turn into a guy on their side while they're 779 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:42,520 Speaker 1: giving a speech about whatever. Um I marched with King? Yeah, alright, buddy, 780 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:47,480 Speaker 1: um so potato. The famine plot goes into greater detail 781 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,800 Speaker 1: about how Travalian personally intervened to exacerbate the famine in 782 00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:54,000 Speaker 1: the name of his precious fre market principles. Quote one 783 00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:57,120 Speaker 1: of his first actions on Peel's departure in June six 784 00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,920 Speaker 1: Because Peel, you know, Russell takes over for Peel, right 785 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,200 Speaker 1: he eventually leaves being Prime Minister symbolizes the attitude he 786 00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:05,840 Speaker 1: was to adopt throughout the famine. He canceled a shipment 787 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,120 Speaker 1: of grain on its way to Ireland. He wrote to 788 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,200 Speaker 1: Thomas Bearing on July eighteen forty six, who's the head 789 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,080 Speaker 1: of the bank. The cargo of food is not wanted. 790 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,480 Speaker 1: Her owners must dispose of it as they think proper. 791 00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:21,360 Speaker 1: Bearing replied, congratulating him on the termination of your feeding operations. 792 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,360 Speaker 1: When the complexity and the time consuming nature of the 793 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,279 Speaker 1: corn processing was brought to his attention, Travillion made two 794 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,160 Speaker 1: decisive interventions. First, he wrote to the Bearing to bear 795 00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:32,319 Speaker 1: it to the Bearings, temporarily cutting back on the corn 796 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:36,320 Speaker 1: supply by fifty and asking that henceforth, whenever possible, Indian 797 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,480 Speaker 1: corn meal should be sent rather than unprocessed grain. Second, 798 00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:41,320 Speaker 1: he decreed that there was no need for the Indian 799 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,600 Speaker 1: corn to be ground. Twice, in a letter to Ruth, 800 00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,400 Speaker 1: he summed up his attitude towards Relief. It was that 801 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:48,839 Speaker 1: of the workhouse we must not aim at giving more 802 00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,239 Speaker 1: than a wholesome food. I cannot believe it would be 803 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,800 Speaker 1: necessary to grindto the Indian corn twice. Dependence on charity 804 00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:56,960 Speaker 1: is not to be made an agreeable mode of life. 805 00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,000 Speaker 1: In Ireland in early eighty six, there was very little 806 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,880 Speaker 1: danger that the poorest classes would find dependence on Peel's 807 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,440 Speaker 1: Yellow meal agreeable. The milling deficiencies and the fact that 808 00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:08,680 Speaker 1: through hunger, many of the recipients did not give it 809 00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:12,360 Speaker 1: sufficient cooking time made for severe and widespread bowel complaints, 810 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,920 Speaker 1: particularly among children. Hence the meal quickly became known as 811 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:20,359 Speaker 1: Peel's brimstone. Why would they need it milled twice? Well, 812 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,160 Speaker 1: if I have to mill it, let's send half as much. 813 00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,280 Speaker 1: You know, we don't want them to get lazy because 814 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,920 Speaker 1: we're doing all of this work. Yeah, there's that. Sounds 815 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,560 Speaker 1: like there's that thing again. We can't help you because 816 00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,920 Speaker 1: if we help you, then that means you'll never do 817 00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:41,040 Speaker 1: anything for yourself. Yeah. Now you know who isn't lazy? Yeah, 818 00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:45,880 Speaker 1: I know it's not lazy. Yeah. Yeah, these amazing absolutely 819 00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:49,279 Speaker 1: now they know how to work for themselves. You know, 820 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:53,719 Speaker 1: these these products, they really they're not like you are, 821 00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:57,120 Speaker 1: not indolent. I tell you what, they're more kinzy. They 822 00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,240 Speaker 1: don't need to grind their corn more than once. Sometimes 823 00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:08,600 Speaker 1: they just eat it raw. Just hardcore law. Baby, and 824 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:17,000 Speaker 1: we're back. Uh boy, howdy. Um So, the famine brought 825 00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,319 Speaker 1: through a series of changes in what we're known as 826 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,239 Speaker 1: Ireland's poor laws. Uh And for this, I'm going to 827 00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,920 Speaker 1: quote from a write up by Virginia Corpsman of Oxford 828 00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:28,640 Speaker 1: Brooks University. Prior to the Great Famine, relief was only 829 00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:31,920 Speaker 1: available within the workhouse. Under the pressure of mass starvation 830 00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,600 Speaker 1: and with many workhouses full to overflowing, the system was 831 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,440 Speaker 1: extended in eighteen forty seven to allow poor law boards 832 00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,960 Speaker 1: to grant outdoor relief to the sick and disabled and 833 00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,360 Speaker 1: two widows with two and two widows with two or 834 00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,560 Speaker 1: more legitimate children. Outdoor relief could only be granted to 835 00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:47,680 Speaker 1: the able bodied if the workhouse was full or a 836 00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,520 Speaker 1: sight of infection. Anyone occupying more than one quarter of 837 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,400 Speaker 1: an acre of land, however, was excluded from receiving relief. 838 00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:56,520 Speaker 1: The effect of this provision, when combined with falling rent 839 00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:58,799 Speaker 1: rolls and the liability of landlords to pay the poor 840 00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,320 Speaker 1: rates on holdings worth less than four pounds per annum 841 00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:05,400 Speaker 1: was to encourage landlords to evict their smallest tenants. Workhouse 842 00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,480 Speaker 1: occupancy rose from around four hundred and seventeen thousand and 843 00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,319 Speaker 1: eighteen forty seven to around nine hundred and thirty two 844 00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:15,359 Speaker 1: thousands by the end of eighteen forty nine. So one 845 00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:18,320 Speaker 1: of the things they do is they make an advantageous 846 00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:22,520 Speaker 1: financially to evict people um for the landlords, because it 847 00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,040 Speaker 1: makes for a better tax situation because then you don't 848 00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,440 Speaker 1: have to pay as much and we gotta pay for it. Yeah, yeah, 849 00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,399 Speaker 1: it's and the idea of like, if you own what 850 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:36,360 Speaker 1: was it, one quarter a quarter acre? Not not even Yeah, 851 00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:38,040 Speaker 1: that's I was like, wait, not even Oh, you just 852 00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:39,839 Speaker 1: gotta live on it. So if you got you got 853 00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:41,320 Speaker 1: a little well, I don't know, man, you got a 854 00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:44,400 Speaker 1: quarter you cool? Yeah? Yeah, I mean I guess I 855 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:46,279 Speaker 1: could if I had that little quarter of an acre, 856 00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:50,640 Speaker 1: I guess I could plant some foods. Yeah, theoretically, right, 857 00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:54,239 Speaker 1: theoretically a quarter acre, by the way, not a ton 858 00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:56,680 Speaker 1: of space to grow enough food both to pay your 859 00:46:56,719 --> 00:47:00,799 Speaker 1: mint and keep a family. Of course, that of course 860 00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,279 Speaker 1: the food I would I would grow to eat I 861 00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,879 Speaker 1: have to pay and also it doesn't grow right now, 862 00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:11,120 Speaker 1: a lot of the food that I would eat. So yeah, 863 00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:15,360 Speaker 1: but people are really edged out of many options here. Yes, 864 00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,640 Speaker 1: So the poor laws effectively put the burden too caring 865 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:22,000 Speaker 1: for starving Irish masses on Irish landowners and business owners. 866 00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:24,080 Speaker 1: One thing this did was make it clear to the 867 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,799 Speaker 1: that the United Kingdom that Ireland had been made to 868 00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:30,360 Speaker 1: join an eight hundred that like that this this idea 869 00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,480 Speaker 1: of the UK doesn't exist for the Irish right because 870 00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,240 Speaker 1: none of the funding for this is coming from outside 871 00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:40,200 Speaker 1: of Ireland. Ireland like, they stopped that immediately. Menlike Travalian 872 00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:44,160 Speaker 1: didn't see this as England abandoning Ireland. They saw this 873 00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,560 Speaker 1: as England crafting laws to change the Irish into something 874 00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,239 Speaker 1: else that would make them better people. Right, that's the 875 00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:52,759 Speaker 1: reasoning behind all this. There's a lot of intent in 876 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,120 Speaker 1: the terrible things they're doing. These aren't just like random 877 00:47:55,160 --> 00:48:00,279 Speaker 1: bad laws. They want to fundamentally alter an and get 878 00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:01,960 Speaker 1: rid of a lot of Irish people in order to 879 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,800 Speaker 1: make them better. You know it's that Yeah, it sounds 880 00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,400 Speaker 1: like that, like kill the Indians, save the man. In 881 00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,399 Speaker 1: a letter he wrote to Edward Twistleton, the Chief Poor 882 00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:14,279 Speaker 1: Law Commissioner of Ireland travel In said, we must not 883 00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:17,320 Speaker 1: complain of what we really want to obtain. If small 884 00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:20,520 Speaker 1: farmers go and their landlords are reduced to sell portions 885 00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:23,160 Speaker 1: of their estates to persons who will invest capital, we 886 00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:26,719 Speaker 1: shall at last arrive at something like a satisfactory settlement 887 00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:31,359 Speaker 1: of the country. Yeah, this is again that he's well, 888 00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:34,960 Speaker 1: they just die off. Yeah, it's an ethnic cleansing for 889 00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:39,160 Speaker 1: economic purposes. That's what he's discussing with A very convenient, 890 00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:45,120 Speaker 1: A convenient uh fungus. Yeah, yeah, this fungus convenient. It 891 00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:48,640 Speaker 1: helps out now. The famine also provided an opportunity for 892 00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:50,920 Speaker 1: the crown and its servants to rid Ireland of some 893 00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,359 Speaker 1: of its pesky and rebellious young men. Crime, which during 894 00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,399 Speaker 1: the famine often meant simply stealing food, was punished, often 895 00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:01,600 Speaker 1: by transportation. This was the FOURT expulsion of a criminal 896 00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:05,560 Speaker 1: to somewhere like Australia. John Mitchell, leader of a nationalist 897 00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:09,239 Speaker 1: group named Young Ireland, was transported in eighteen forty eight 898 00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:13,240 Speaker 1: to Australia. He later called the famine quote an artificial famine. 899 00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,520 Speaker 1: Potatoes failed in like manner all over Europe, yet there 900 00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,560 Speaker 1: was no famine save in Ireland. The Almighty indeed sent 901 00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:25,240 Speaker 1: the potato blight, but the English created the famine. Si nailed. 902 00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,239 Speaker 1: Time has proven his words very correct. The potato again 903 00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:30,879 Speaker 1: did fail for years, but only in Ireland was their 904 00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:34,480 Speaker 1: famine and death on an industrial scale. Huge numbers of 905 00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:36,920 Speaker 1: Irish people fled their homeland in this period, many of 906 00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,160 Speaker 1: whom wound up in the United States. Right, this is 907 00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:41,919 Speaker 1: when we really get our big waves of Irish immigration. 908 00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:44,200 Speaker 1: This is pretty well known to most Americans, so I 909 00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:46,480 Speaker 1: prefer to focus on the fact that a ton of 910 00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,040 Speaker 1: Irish folks also go to England. Right, it is you 911 00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:52,719 Speaker 1: know a bit closer. Yeah. Uh. Tens of thousands of 912 00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:55,240 Speaker 1: famine victims flee to the seat of the Imperial government, 913 00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:58,359 Speaker 1: hoping for a chance to survive. This, of course, does 914 00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:01,920 Speaker 1: not make English people very In eighteen fifty, the Liverpool 915 00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,000 Speaker 1: Mercury wrote that the lamentable excess of crime in that 916 00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:09,040 Speaker 1: city has been caused entirely by Irish refugees. This constant 917 00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:12,440 Speaker 1: influx of Irish misery and crime is almost impossible to restrain, 918 00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:15,120 Speaker 1: and of course there are huge surges in the number 919 00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,319 Speaker 1: of people arrested and charged with crimes, most of whom 920 00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:21,320 Speaker 1: are Irish because guess who the cops are focused on. Man, Listen, 921 00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:25,920 Speaker 1: I don't look listen, I'm I'm making a retroactive plead 922 00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:30,319 Speaker 1: to the Irish, like man, when when whiteness comes knock 923 00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,239 Speaker 1: it like you don't don't don't answer that called man, 924 00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:36,880 Speaker 1: come to with us? You see, how doing you just 925 00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:39,520 Speaker 1: be with us? Because yeah, I mean there's an unfortunate 926 00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:44,000 Speaker 1: story of like how a lot of these famine victims 927 00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:46,920 Speaker 1: come to the United States and many wind up becoming police. 928 00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:48,840 Speaker 1: And it's a whole tale. Yeah, it's a whole tale. 929 00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,040 Speaker 1: It's a whole thing. Yeah, yeah, that's why I was 930 00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,799 Speaker 1: just like, man, listen, why do y'all doing this? Like 931 00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:56,480 Speaker 1: you know what they do to you? They did, they 932 00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:58,719 Speaker 1: did they do to you, They're doing to us what 933 00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:02,600 Speaker 1: they did to you. Like, come all, guys, No, it's 934 00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:06,319 Speaker 1: a it's a it's it's not a book that we're 935 00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:10,760 Speaker 1: reading through here. Isn't the playbook because it doesn't work exactly, 936 00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:14,279 Speaker 1: It's works because good it works pretty well. You want 937 00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:16,480 Speaker 1: to be It's like, at the end of the day, man, 938 00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:18,600 Speaker 1: like you want to be the hunter or the hunter, 939 00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,200 Speaker 1: and if you have a chance to become the hunter, 940 00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:25,319 Speaker 1: ten out of ten times you just do that it's 941 00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:28,120 Speaker 1: rather than rather than that being eight, and it just 942 00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,759 Speaker 1: and it's like it just sucks. But it is what 943 00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:34,200 Speaker 1: it is. It is what it is. So it's also 944 00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:37,760 Speaker 1: worth emphasizing that many, many foreigners did travel to Ireland 945 00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:40,080 Speaker 1: during her time of need to try and help Quakers, 946 00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:43,200 Speaker 1: in particular, probably like the group that came in and 947 00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:46,000 Speaker 1: did the most good, like huge amount of life saved 948 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,799 Speaker 1: by Quakers who operated soup kitchens and engaged another very 949 00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:53,280 Speaker 1: compassionate aid work, like really incredible ship. And in fact, 950 00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,520 Speaker 1: when you go through like English newspapers in this period 951 00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,280 Speaker 1: that are like people who are publishing columns and letters 952 00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:02,560 Speaker 1: of anti Ira bigotry, you will also find Quakers writing 953 00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:04,640 Speaker 1: and to be like shut the funk up, you know, 954 00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:08,759 Speaker 1: but basically because yeah, they're not. They're they're a little 955 00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:13,600 Speaker 1: nicer about Yeah. Many Americans also traveled to the island 956 00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:16,239 Speaker 1: to help. One American philanthropist at the time wrote of 957 00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:19,720 Speaker 1: Irish famine victims, I could scarcely believe that these creatures 958 00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:22,640 Speaker 1: were my fellow beings. Never have I seen slaves so degraded. 959 00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:24,520 Speaker 1: And here I learned that there are many pages in 960 00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:26,840 Speaker 1: the volume of slavery, and that every branch of it 961 00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,280 Speaker 1: proceeds from one and the same route, that it assumes 962 00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:32,800 Speaker 1: different shapes. These poor creatures are in his virtual bondage 963 00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,160 Speaker 1: to their landlords and superiors, as it is possible for 964 00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:37,840 Speaker 1: mind or body to be. They cannot work unless they 965 00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,360 Speaker 1: bid them, they cannot eat unless they feed them, and 966 00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:46,560 Speaker 1: they cannot get away unless they help them. Wow. Yeah, yep, yep, Yeah, 967 00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:49,920 Speaker 1: there's a lot of truth, man. There are many pages 968 00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:52,320 Speaker 1: in the volume of slavery, and that every branch it 969 00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:56,560 Speaker 1: proceeds from one and the same route. It's the same room. Yes, 970 00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:59,200 Speaker 1: So no sympathy at all was to be found in 971 00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:01,719 Speaker 1: the heart of the regent, Queen Victoria, who came to 972 00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:04,840 Speaker 1: be known as the Famine Queen for her government's utter failure. 973 00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:06,880 Speaker 1: And this is something that happens really after the famine, 974 00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:09,600 Speaker 1: but there's still a push in Ireland out to call 975 00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:16,040 Speaker 1: her the family King. Yeah. Historian Christine keen Kinney, director 976 00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:18,600 Speaker 1: of the Great Hunger Institute, sums it up thus Lee 977 00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:21,080 Speaker 1: there is no evidence that she had any real compassion 978 00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:23,920 Speaker 1: for the Irish people in any way. When she visited 979 00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:26,080 Speaker 1: Ireland for the first time in eighteen forty nine. Near 980 00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:28,440 Speaker 1: the end of the famine, huge numbers of soldiers were 981 00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:30,520 Speaker 1: needed to keep the streets clear and ensure that she 982 00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:33,400 Speaker 1: saw no real sign of the suffering her agents had permitted. 983 00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:36,120 Speaker 1: We could go on and on about different policies, how 984 00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:39,360 Speaker 1: they failed or succeeded, which other individuals played roles in 985 00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:43,360 Speaker 1: the famine. Eventually it ended, but only after tremendous suffering. 986 00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:47,480 Speaker 1: At least one million people starved to death. Modern scholars 987 00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:49,920 Speaker 1: suspect the real number was closer to two million one 988 00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:53,480 Speaker 1: point nine millions something like that. Millions more left the island, 989 00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:56,360 Speaker 1: either due to forced transportation or immigration and hope of 990 00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:59,920 Speaker 1: a better life or just survival from a pre famine 991 00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:03,400 Speaker 1: population of almost nine million. Ireland's population post famine was 992 00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:05,920 Speaker 1: less than five million um, and it did not exceed 993 00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:11,319 Speaker 1: five million again until last year. So for a an 994 00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,120 Speaker 1: idea of the scale of how this famine compares to 995 00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:17,480 Speaker 1: modern famines, the famine and Yemen right now is probably 996 00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:20,640 Speaker 1: the number one humanitarian crisis on the globe. At the moment, 997 00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:24,799 Speaker 1: at least a hundred thousand people have already starved to death. 998 00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:27,959 Speaker 1: Experts warn that four hundred thousand's children under the age 999 00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:31,759 Speaker 1: of five could die in the near future without sufficient intervention. Um, 1000 00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:36,040 Speaker 1: it is a Titanic problem. That is a hundred thousand 1001 00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:38,760 Speaker 1: dead so far out of a population of thirty million. 1002 00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:42,879 Speaker 1: The faminine Darfur was probably the most prominent twenty first 1003 00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:46,040 Speaker 1: century famine before yomen. It killed around a hundred thousand 1004 00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:48,719 Speaker 1: people out of a population of twenty seven million. Now, 1005 00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:51,040 Speaker 1: both of these are Titanic tragedies, and I'm trying to 1006 00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:54,399 Speaker 1: minimize that in any way, But two million dead out 1007 00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,719 Speaker 1: of nine million for an example of like the scale 1008 00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:04,880 Speaker 1: Yeah of this U Yeah, like it's uh, that's yeah. Yeah, 1009 00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:08,840 Speaker 1: and just and like adding the like roll that weather 1010 00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:12,680 Speaker 1: plays that like yeah, it's it's just it was a 1011 00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:16,520 Speaker 1: it's a perfect storm. You know when in the history 1012 00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:21,160 Speaker 1: of time and you know, understanding of how viruses and 1013 00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:24,720 Speaker 1: bacteria work, like when this happened is the perfect storm 1014 00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:26,480 Speaker 1: of being like, yeah, it's gonna wipe you all out. 1015 00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:29,719 Speaker 1: Yeah yep. And and there's a lot of people who 1016 00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:32,520 Speaker 1: have a vested interest in allowing you to be wiped out. 1017 00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:37,839 Speaker 1: Um yep. Anyway, because because we're gonna graze this We're 1018 00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:41,120 Speaker 1: gonna graze this land with these these hipster to get 1019 00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:45,040 Speaker 1: some sheep. You know I'm gonna get some sheep. So 1020 00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:49,359 Speaker 1: fuck Charles Trevillion. That's that's all day, every day. Yeah, 1021 00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:52,800 Speaker 1: definitely don't like that. I found an article that interviews 1022 00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,600 Speaker 1: his great great great granddaughter who was a BBC reporter, 1023 00:55:55,719 --> 00:55:59,560 Speaker 1: Laura Trevillion Um and she she got she got sent 1024 00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:01,600 Speaker 1: for an idea of like, maybe how out of touch 1025 00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:05,080 Speaker 1: the BBC can be. They have Charles Trevillian's great great 1026 00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:08,000 Speaker 1: great granddaughter and in the mid nineties, when like ship's 1027 00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:10,759 Speaker 1: going off in northern Ireland, they send her as a correspondent. 1028 00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:16,640 Speaker 1: Let's go, so she says, quote, I was interviewing a 1029 00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:19,400 Speaker 1: member of the Republican Shinfei and in southern Arma, and 1030 00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:21,960 Speaker 1: she asked if I was related to Charles Travallion. I 1031 00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:23,600 Speaker 1: said I was, And she asked me how I could 1032 00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:25,120 Speaker 1: live in Ireland when I had the blood of the 1033 00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:28,520 Speaker 1: Irish on my hands. She wasn't joking. I was constantly 1034 00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:30,520 Speaker 1: surprised by the number of people who knew about Charles 1035 00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:32,880 Speaker 1: Trevalian and the impact that the famine has in Ireland 1036 00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:35,359 Speaker 1: more than a hundred fifty years later. Yet I felt 1037 00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:37,839 Speaker 1: ashamed that I didn't know all that much about him. 1038 00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:42,000 Speaker 1: And she wrote writes a book because of this, called 1039 00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:47,560 Speaker 1: a Very British Family about the Trevillian family. And he 1040 00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:51,520 Speaker 1: like heard just being cute, like like, hey, are you 1041 00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:55,400 Speaker 1: related to Yeah, that's like my great great granddad, you 1042 00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:59,200 Speaker 1: know him. You're like, uh hum, that's a chair throw 1043 00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:02,200 Speaker 1: that's another yeah, Like I'm happy that lady didn't throw 1044 00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:07,040 Speaker 1: the chair again. Real real uh real restraint on behalf 1045 00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:10,480 Speaker 1: of the Irish Republicans there there is, I know that 1046 00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:15,080 Speaker 1: can be a spicy crowd. I'm surprissed. Um, So she 1047 00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:18,600 Speaker 1: writes this fucking book. Uh, and she says of it, 1048 00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:21,720 Speaker 1: I'm not defending him or endorsing some of his actions, 1049 00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:23,680 Speaker 1: but I want to show he was more humane than 1050 00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:26,840 Speaker 1: has been portrayed. He did work very hard to try 1051 00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:29,520 Speaker 1: and improve the situation in Ireland and had a genuine 1052 00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:33,800 Speaker 1: concern for the welfare of the people. It's all right, 1053 00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:39,960 Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, look listen, there's your grand 1054 00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:43,920 Speaker 1: your granddaddy, a piece of ship. It's just we have it. 1055 00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:48,000 Speaker 1: There's some fucking incredible quotes from this lady. Um. He 1056 00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:51,040 Speaker 1: is vilified in Ireland, and not wrongly because the policy 1057 00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:53,520 Speaker 1: enacted by the government at the time is impossible to 1058 00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:57,120 Speaker 1: defend a policy of effectively withholding relief and allowing market 1059 00:57:57,160 --> 00:58:00,720 Speaker 1: forces to take their courses brutal. However, what I'm taking 1060 00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:03,000 Speaker 1: what I'm taking issue with, is the portrayal of him 1061 00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,960 Speaker 1: as someone who wanted the Irish to die. Yes, he 1062 00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:08,560 Speaker 1: was a providentialist who felt the famine had been the 1063 00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:10,919 Speaker 1: will of God. But that's not the same as saying 1064 00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:15,320 Speaker 1: he wanted the Irish to die. Kind of man, it's 1065 00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:18,160 Speaker 1: this a little bit that kind of is And unless 1066 00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:20,160 Speaker 1: you're being like God wants these people to die, but 1067 00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:22,560 Speaker 1: fuck him, I'm gonna fight him, you know. But that's 1068 00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:27,160 Speaker 1: not what Charles Valiant was saying. No, No, I don't know, man, 1069 00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:32,240 Speaker 1: I listen, I don't know man. I'm just listen. Your 1070 00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:35,160 Speaker 1: granddaddy piece. I think your granddad just gonna have to 1071 00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:37,200 Speaker 1: live with it. You know what I'm saying, Just live 1072 00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:38,960 Speaker 1: with it. They don't mean you a piece it. They 1073 00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:43,240 Speaker 1: don't mean that. Okay, there, listen, we all you can't 1074 00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:46,240 Speaker 1: go and hired. You can't go into nobody's family tree 1075 00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:48,920 Speaker 1: and not find a piece of Yeah. Absolutely, it's just 1076 00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:51,280 Speaker 1: there in all of our families. Look like, what do 1077 00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:53,560 Speaker 1: you want me to say? He was a piece of ship. 1078 00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:55,800 Speaker 1: There's a lot of blood on his hands. Yeah, you 1079 00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:59,120 Speaker 1: probably can't go into anyone's background and not find somebody 1080 00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:01,480 Speaker 1: who helped do with genocide at some point. There's been 1081 00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:04,520 Speaker 1: a lot of bodies that we've done, a lot of 1082 00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:06,600 Speaker 1: them as a species, a lot of them. It happen 1083 00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:10,919 Speaker 1: you were, Yes, you were later in that line, you've 1084 00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:14,360 Speaker 1: got somebody like and it's fine because people aren't responsible 1085 00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:17,080 Speaker 1: for their ancestors. Just don't write what do you get about? 1086 00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:22,280 Speaker 1: How what you what makes you responsible? Is you trying 1087 00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:24,760 Speaker 1: to justify it rather than being like the rest of us, 1088 00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:32,240 Speaker 1: which is like, yeah, you know, yeah it's cool, it's 1089 00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:38,720 Speaker 1: good stuff. Uh not write no book. One of them dead, 1090 00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:42,040 Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean he didn't like them, you know, say, 1091 00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:45,640 Speaker 1: I just figure I won't feed him because this principle. Yeah, 1092 00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:47,760 Speaker 1: but I don't mean I want them to die. Yeah, 1093 00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:50,520 Speaker 1: it's a shame they're dying. I wish I could do 1094 00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:53,880 Speaker 1: something about it. As the guy responsible for the relief efforts, 1095 00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:57,240 Speaker 1: I mean, we're trying to find the guide who did this. 1096 00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:03,040 Speaker 1: As Charles Travallion in the banana costume, well a potato costume. 1097 01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:07,919 Speaker 1: Let's let's go to potato costume. But Doug, this is glorious, man, 1098 01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:12,080 Speaker 1: just man, don't write a book about the end of 1099 01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:16,840 Speaker 1: the story, this book about him. I'm sure there's there's 1100 01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:19,160 Speaker 1: a valid case for like, well, we have this family archives, 1101 01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:21,480 Speaker 1: and I'm going to write a book revealing like what 1102 01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:23,520 Speaker 1: made him the kind of man who would do this, 1103 01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:26,120 Speaker 1: and like take a hard note that that. That's fine. 1104 01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:29,880 Speaker 1: There's some survive there's some like descendants of Nazis who 1105 01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:32,440 Speaker 1: have written some very good things about grappling with the 1106 01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:35,680 Speaker 1: fact that like, yeah, my grandpa did some ship, you know. Yeah, 1107 01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:38,440 Speaker 1: there's that. That's a really valuable thing to do. Actually, 1108 01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:42,680 Speaker 1: because it's a species, you could stand a better at that. Yeah. Yeah. 1109 01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:45,840 Speaker 1: Or I'm like again, like we said, people are two 1110 01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:48,160 Speaker 1: opposite things can be true at the same time. Surely, 1111 01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:53,400 Speaker 1: surely your murderous grandfather was a very cuddly person who 1112 01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:56,160 Speaker 1: could read you a bedtime story, you know what I'm saying, 1113 01:00:56,320 --> 01:01:00,160 Speaker 1: who really loved you know, nice strolls, you know, and 1114 01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:05,000 Speaker 1: got your grandma daisies every Sunday. Yes, and also is 1115 01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:09,280 Speaker 1: a bloodthirsty murder. They're they're both true. So even if 1116 01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:11,560 Speaker 1: you're gonna defend your Granddaddy like, hey, you know what, 1117 01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:14,560 Speaker 1: he was really nice to my mom then late and 1118 01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:16,840 Speaker 1: just talk about that part I this is. Don't try 1119 01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:18,960 Speaker 1: to like the piece of ship stuff is just piece 1120 01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:20,680 Speaker 1: of ship stuff. So just let it be what it is. 1121 01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:24,720 Speaker 1: People like things to be clear cut, and I think 1122 01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:28,640 Speaker 1: there's not enough of an understanding that probably most of 1123 01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:32,440 Speaker 1: the people who have personally participated in genocide throughout history 1124 01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:35,680 Speaker 1: have been perfectly pleasant human beings outside of that moment. 1125 01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:39,720 Speaker 1: And probably most of the people who owned slaves were 1126 01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:42,200 Speaker 1: lovely to their wife and children. They were just fine 1127 01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:45,200 Speaker 1: at ignoring the humanity of certain other people, you know, Like, 1128 01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:47,360 Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying. You could be two things. Well, 1129 01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:51,080 Speaker 1: you know, well my like well not Big Daddy, Greig 1130 01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:53,760 Speaker 1: big Daddy. You know, well, I do declare. I'd go 1131 01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:55,680 Speaker 1: hang out at Big Daddy's house and we'd sit on 1132 01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:58,080 Speaker 1: the pot and we drink our lemonade and he would 1133 01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:00,080 Speaker 1: play tea with us the whole Big Daddy was so 1134 01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:04,080 Speaker 1: love Yeah, yes, Big Daddy was very loving to you. Yep, 1135 01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:07,280 Speaker 1: it's awesome. That was my Southern Bell. How did I 1136 01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:11,760 Speaker 1: do as good as your fine? I mean, my cotillion, 1137 01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:16,840 Speaker 1: We really I can't deal with this, I've caught the vapors. 1138 01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:25,640 Speaker 1: I would like some alabaster columns, plantation, you know, I 1139 01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:27,360 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I 1140 01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:30,560 Speaker 1: don't have a good I don't have a good Southern bell. Ready. 1141 01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:34,440 Speaker 1: I apologize, No, I apologize. I like. I like pulling 1142 01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:37,280 Speaker 1: alabaster out. I do. It's one of my favorite words. 1143 01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:40,120 Speaker 1: You really sound white when you say alabaster. There's no 1144 01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:42,560 Speaker 1: other reason to say that. Less Again, you're the strongest 1145 01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:46,560 Speaker 1: one reading a gospel in your But besides that, why 1146 01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:50,200 Speaker 1: would you ever say alabasas? It's a fun stuff. Well, 1147 01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:54,000 Speaker 1: that's the story of the Great Hunger, Great Hunger, the 1148 01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:58,560 Speaker 1: potato plight, the Unnecessary Family. Yeah, the British Famine, the 1149 01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:01,080 Speaker 1: British Family. It would be so up if in like Ireland, 1150 01:03:01,080 --> 01:03:04,320 Speaker 1: their books were called The Unnecessary Famine. Yeah, the Unnecessary 1151 01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:06,680 Speaker 1: I mean, the famine plot is a good one. Coogan 1152 01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:09,120 Speaker 1: frames it very much, is like, yeah, it was like 1153 01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:12,200 Speaker 1: people meant for this ship to go down. Yeah, the 1154 01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:15,880 Speaker 1: famine plot. Y'all did this, which is cool. Um, it's 1155 01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:18,960 Speaker 1: not cool, but it's good to talk about things accurately. 1156 01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:21,120 Speaker 1: Prop you want to plug anything before we roll out 1157 01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:26,360 Speaker 1: in a hail of I Do podcast, I do I UM. 1158 01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:29,160 Speaker 1: I wrote a book called After the Revolution. You can 1159 01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:33,840 Speaker 1: google a v what if I did? What if I? 1160 01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:36,200 Speaker 1: What if I did write it? And I just accidentally 1161 01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:38,760 Speaker 1: just told on us that that I just I just 1162 01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:42,800 Speaker 1: stole your book. Yeah. I was like wait. I was like, yeah, Robert, 1163 01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:44,600 Speaker 1: I waited till this whole time to tell you I 1164 01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:50,200 Speaker 1: want my book prop hip. Hop. I did write a book. 1165 01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:55,120 Speaker 1: It's called Terraform. It's um poetry in short story. Uh, 1166 01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:59,440 Speaker 1: and I I haven't won any awards for it. It's okay. 1167 01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:01,840 Speaker 1: You know who else didn't win any awards? Well? You 1168 01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:04,240 Speaker 1: know who want actually a lot of awards is Charles Travalion. 1169 01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:05,919 Speaker 1: He got like Knighted and ship You want to bunch 1170 01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:09,760 Speaker 1: want any of that? Yeah? Maybe maybe awards aren't really 1171 01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:13,480 Speaker 1: worth anything. Maybe you're not wor Yeah. Yeah, all right, 1172 01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:18,560 Speaker 1: well that's the podcast. All right, dude, go out and 1173 01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:23,680 Speaker 1: again find uh property of the British royal family and 1174 01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:29,160 Speaker 1: damage it. Yeah, and find yourself, find yourself, uh somebody 1175 01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:32,240 Speaker 1: in the military and uninvite them into your home. Yeah yeah, 1176 01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:34,120 Speaker 1: invite a soldier into your house and be like, you 1177 01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:36,200 Speaker 1: know what gets the funk out you don't get to 1178 01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:43,560 Speaker 1: be in my house. Third Amendment motherfucker by