00:00:17
Speaker 1: Pushkin. Some people are naturally at home in the world. Interior designer Nate Burkas is one of them, with a combination of impeccable Midwestern manners, telegenic looks, and a real talent for design. He rose to fame in two thousand and two when Oprah anointed him as her design expert, and he quickly became a fixture of living rooms across America. In two thousand and four, Nate and his partner Fernando found themselves caught in the tsunami in Sri Lanka, and Fernando lost his life. The grief that followed might cause others to retreat from the world. Instead, Nate took away a deep sense of empathy from that experience, one that changed his approach to people and places in a deeply sincere way. On his travels, Nate collects objects and mementoes with a rare intention, constantly adding to a living archive that follows him through his homes, projects, and family life. In this chat, we connect about the maide by hand in Mexico's Marita Palmer's Peerless Antique Fair, why he won't take his children to Venice just yet, and how we can all find a way to travel through grief. Here's my conversation with Nate Burkas. Nate, welcome, thank you, super nice to have you, thank you. I wanted to ask you. I know you've had a book that came out recently called Foundations. What's the place that do you think probably was your esthetic foundation that you first traveled through that had the biggest impact.

00:01:45
Speaker 2: Growing up in the Midwest in a suburb of Minneapolis, it actually wasn't we traveled as a family. We traveled starting at a very young age, but it actually wasn't travel for me. It was the sort of allure of a multi dealer antiques mall or an auction. My mom was an interior designer, and I remember being so curious about the decorative arts, and obviously she was collecting and buying for clients and projects and things like that. But you know, objects really tell a story. They represent sort of often when they've made it this far from their origin, they represent sort of the best of craft or the best of design, or the most important wave of interest at a certain time or period in a culture. And so my eyes were actually opened esthetically more not from seeing things when I was young, but seeing things, not places but things.

00:02:36
Speaker 1: Is there an object that has stayed through all of your houses?

00:02:39
Speaker 2: There's several. Actually, Jeremiah thinks that I am like, He calls me like a fancy hoarder. But I like when my eye travels around one of our spaces to land on things and have that space tell the story of us and of me and of our children. And I've always felt that interiors, the best interiors, really do represent the people that live in them, but also represent not just who they are currently, but who they've been, what they've loved, what they've lost, what they've seen, and probably equally as important, who they aspire to be.

00:03:12
Speaker 1: I mean, that's why we do it in front of my home, all of my knick knacks and things, and there's the lion right there that travels with me through all my houses, not that there's been that many, but that one's from Tamil Nadu in India, and I can't let go of him.

00:03:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, you shouldn't know for sure.

00:03:30
Speaker 1: I listened to something that you had done several years ago, and it was about that you went to Paris when you were seventeen, and the thing that you were most interested in was, aside from boys, history so it was like, curious what that means, exactly what that meant for you when you were there.

00:03:49
Speaker 2: I think what it meant was that at seventeen, I was old enough to have this awareness of modern life happening in an ancient place, and in American interior design. I've always been really interested in things like architectural salvage and old door knobs and salvaged fireplaces and old stone floors that have been reclaimed in all of these materials. But you know, that was twenty years later. I think at the time, I was just so taken by the age of the place, and you know, there's all these great design sort of concepts that happened Andre Putman doing these apartments in these house Manian apartments and things like that, and the deeply deeply deco movement against these sort of wedding cake moldings and the contrast of all of that, and I think that that was really formative for me. I was an intern at a costume jewelry designer. Her name is Dominique Orienttie. I lived with a family in the sixteenth Roundismont in this grand old apartment which wasn't particularly well furnished, but you know, it didn't matter. There was actually Housman style one. Yeah, Housman's style, like with the big kitchen and the enormous stove and then this sort of rickety table that the housekeeper would change the linen on, you know, every two days, and it didn't match the napkins and whatever, and that was really wonderful. Like I just it was. It was this option that I discovered of being able to live with history in such a tangible way, and that never left me.

00:05:28
Speaker 1: Is the other places that you were turned to when you go to Paris.

00:05:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, Actually, I'll tell you a funny story. So when I lived in Paris and I was in Stagier and interned, they were there was this Vietnamese restaurant in the bottom of the office building and for five francs you could get this like beif alagnon on a baguette or these like tiny egg rolls that they call nem and I ate that for lunch every day. I was like, this is my favorite restaurant and it's amazing. So fast forward ten years later, I back in the States. I've graduated from college, I've started my company, and I brought someone with me and I was like, we have to go back to this Vietnamese restaurant and they you know, it's so great and I have such great memories and I ate it every day and I can taste it. I'm so excited. And we walked down the street and I was like, I don't remember this being like so dodgy. I was like, wait a minute, like this, this cannot possibly be the restaurant, Like I remember the sandwiches were like all in the window and like I was like, this cannot be it right with the filthy glass and like the tile floors that looked like they hadn't been cleaned since my bum btzwah, And I was like, this is really gross. And my friend was like I am not eating here, Like you're welcome to eat here, but like there's no way. So I mean, you know, things change obviously as we change. But I have my favorite haunt in Paris, the Ritz Hotel. I love.

00:06:45
Speaker 1: I've never stayed there before because no, which is kind of strange. I was coming from a trip on'mware that was a little not rough, but I was like getting off a plane, I'd had one or two outfits and I'd had like a pair of shorts and like dirty shoes and you know, I was going to get changed into something like acceptable, but I walked into the hotel and they were like they wouldn't let me in, and so it was like my pretty woman moment.

00:07:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's huge.

00:07:11
Speaker 1: It was when I was. It was when I was I think, I like, I had a friend who was talking about it the other day who's like in hotels, and she was like, you know, really speaking about what I think is unique or what I understand to be unique about the Ritz, which is that sense of nostalgia totally, and you know that it's that it's both timeless but timely. It's in a live institution, and it feels like it's sparkling, I guess, particularly now since they did the renovation. So I don't hold a grudge. I have to say, it's like more of a it's more of a story. Yeah, but I enjoy now.

00:07:46
Speaker 2: I will tell you though. That reminds me. That's why I'm loyal to Clarages in London.

00:07:49
Speaker 1: Okay.

00:07:50
Speaker 2: After the Indian Ocean tsunami, I was brought to London, flew from Colombo and she like to London and I was bandaged, wearing like ripped shorts and a tank top and like a sweatshirt half on and flip flops that didn't match. And I walked into Clarages with with friends and they said, welcome back, mister Brookers. You know, and I will always remember that.

00:08:17
Speaker 1: There's something different about the concierge or dorman in London, like that's really a profession. Yeah, and it's something that is earned over kind of decades. That's something really unique to London, I think. And I love clarages as well, like particularly the little bar there, the Fumua. Yeah, when you're talking about the tsunami. Actually, that's the first time I remember in Australia that you came across on my radar, because you know, we're more close to that part of the world.

00:08:48
Speaker 2: Taught me a lot about hospitality really wise that because I think that the Sri Lankan's in general you can't speak in general about any sort of population obviously it's ridiculous, but very generally speaking, it's such an incredibly friendly place and culturally, when you're visiting a country that is sort of trained and has placed importance on being good hosts, you can feel that I know that, yeah more than anyone.

00:09:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like in Sri Lanka, even the colors are that gentle, soothing greens, browns.

00:09:19
Speaker 2: Jeffrey Bawi exactly whole world of like just this beautiful tranquility and everyone so connected to nature and all these things. But I say that it taught me a lot about hospitality because the Sri Lankans, even though they had such incredible devastation losing their homes, losing their loved ones, losing their children and their elders and their husbands and their wives and their partners and all these things, they were so concerned with the expats that were there. They could not believe, like what did we need? What could they do to help? No matter where we went. And that is also something that stayed with me for my whole life.

00:09:58
Speaker 1: I've always wanted to ask you, have you traveled back to Sri Lanka and would you?

00:10:02
Speaker 2: I so this is such a good question. A year after the tsunami, at the time, I was on the Oprah Show doing the makeovers on the Oprah Winfrey Show in State. I went on Oprah to talk about my experience in the tsunami weeks after, and the reason that I did that was because Oprah had said that she was going to raise money for the region that we were in, Fernando and me, and that she would waive all of the admin fees, et cetera, and whatever dollars were raised from her audience would go directly and be administered to the region of Podeville where we were. And that's exactly what she did. And it was several million dollars, which translated into Sri Lankan rupees, is you know, a fortune. And then they came to me and said what should we do with the money, And I said, I'm not a not for profit I was vacationing. I don't know what they need. And so we partnered with these different I was twenty eight. But they told us. These agencies helped us figure out, like feed the children, and these very established, you know, agencies, how to disburse the money. And one of the programs that was super important to me was that we were able to restore like the woman who had the fishing the cottage on the shore, who served the fisherman coffee every morning. We built a new hut and got her her new supplies, and we provided bicycles to the villagers and we actually built this two story building that was a vocational school. It's a Muslim community, and so it was the only building because you couldn't see in from outside, where young men and young women were permitted religiously to be together. And so we built a vocational school in the village of Puteville and we named it after Fernando. A year to the date after the tsunami, I got a call from Oprah and she said, the PM of Sri Lanka has invited me to the opening of the vocational school that you helped to build. And I told them I'm not doing that, but he should go do it. So I'm asking if you want to fly back and I said, absolutely not. There's no I'm sorry. I'm sure that you're going to frame this as a full circle moment, and I'm sure you're right. I just don't have it in me to do it. I apologize and I appreciate the offer, but the answer is no. Definitively the answer is no, and she said absolutely no pressure, I understand. Ten minutes later I called her back and I said, I changed my mind. She said, I know you're booked on a flight out in two days, and this is the production crew that's going with you, And I said, how did you know who's coming with me? And she said, oh, Lisa Minor and this one and your friend Anne and you know, all these people exactly who she knew I would want to make me comfortable. I said, can I bring my little brother, like as an emotional support animal? And she said yes, and I said, okay, great, And I said, how did you know I was going to change my mind? And she said, because I know you. I know that you would never let that opportunity go by. So a year to the date, December twenty sixth, I stood in the exact spot where we were. It was one of the most restorative, most incredible moments of my life.

00:13:15
Speaker 1: Well maybe Oprah was the only person that could get and it was like.

00:13:20
Speaker 2: No, she is not like particularly persuasive, really no, because she's not. She's she's she's been a long time since she's had to talk anybody into anything. So I mean, honestly, the ask went out and she met what she said. There was no pressure whatsoever around it. It didn't matter to her m H. But I ended up going obviously, and she knew it would be an enormous gift for me, and I think more importantly, I knew it was going to be an enormous gift for me.

00:13:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I I have a friend whose husband passed away last year and they were amazing travelers and had like you know, a few kids, and just went absolutely everywhere. And she's now just slightly getting back on the path of going to the places that they that they went to. And I'm really fascinated in this idea of this traveling through grief and how you return to those places is because they hold so much memory and it's challenging, but I do think it's probably a great cathosis.

00:14:17
Speaker 2: It is. And actually, you know, in preparation for this conversation, you had asked me about places that I really love, and one of them is Laos, and that's also connected to my tsunami experience because I had no ticket to go to Laos. I was in shangh Mai with Jeremiah for exploring like sort of the north of Thailand, and we were meant to go down to the coast in Thailand. We weren't married, we had just been dating, so this is probably thirteen years ago, and we were staying at the Dara Devi which is now it's changed hands like seven hundred times.

00:14:50
Speaker 1: It has those cannon boll trees.

00:14:52
Speaker 2: Yes, they're so cool and that like insane spat and like, yeah, everything is delicious. And the night before we were meant to go down to the coast of Thailand, not back to Sri Lanka. I was up all night and Jeremiah woke up at like four in the morning and he realized that I was awaken. He said, what's wrong, and I said, I don't think I can do it. I feel like I have too much to lose, Like I just don't think I can go back to the coast. And he said, then we won't go. And I remember we were going to stay at an Aman in Thailand, and the next day the manager of the hotel called the Aman and sort of explained the situation, and they said, well, we would welcome him at our property in the one Yeah. I was like, okay, great. So that's how I ended up finding one of my favorite places I've ever been in my life. And that was like an incredible, incredible trip to both Jeremiah and I still think of and hope to bring our children to one day.

00:15:42
Speaker 1: I think it's one of the best hotels I totally do. It's so cool.

00:15:45
Speaker 2: Yeah. And it's French colonial former hospital exactly. It's the land of sticky rice, Like what could go wrong?

00:15:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know in Luang Prabang, you have you know, it's it's this languid town on a river and it has you know, the monks in saffron roads and it feels like of another ear and.

00:16:03
Speaker 2: A night market. And Zallas is also single story and exactly a Kong is so beautiful with the wooden boats. It's like it's really really incredible.

00:16:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they've managed to maintain it in a way that maybe in some other towns and cities in that part of the world are less so Yeah. And I think actually those hotels, I think the amman there does a really good job of connecting to the community.

00:16:27
Speaker 2: Well, when we were staying there, the cultural attache to the hotel was the nephew of the last queen, and so he knew everybody and was like taking us around and wanted to know what we were particularly interested in. And you know, we went and made our offerings to the monks. One morning, Jeremiah, I was like, what time is that. It's like it's at five. I was like, I'm not doing that. He was like, you're doing it because you'll never forget it. Of course he regretted it. No, I we did it, Okay.

00:16:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you were Yeah, I'm not in early Well I.

00:17:00
Speaker 2: Get that, especially after traveling you know, seven thousand hours at Yeah, but I did it. And you know, the monks were walking into the village and you're at the end of the path and you don't look at them. You keep your head down and you sort of pass the eggs and things like that. But it was like such an incredible experience. Like obviously, but the cultural actor shade to the hotel was super charming, and so you know, I love that way of seeing a place.

00:17:29
Speaker 1: Did you take any kind of design inspiration from Laos massively? Yeah.

00:17:33
Speaker 2: I mean the hotel itself is, as we mentioned, like a former French colonial hospital. I mean it's yeah.

00:17:41
Speaker 1: And beforehand with Aman they had sort of these very monastic, very model carry Hill designed spaces, which is why they became iconic in the way that they absolutely are. They defined a particular aesthetic and then when they this is one of the first ones where they broke into doing this, and I.

00:17:57
Speaker 2: Was so glad that they did because you know, the the thatched ceilings and the sort of painted wood primitive furniture, and you know, it just all worked so well. And you know, I like to explore a place, like I don't want to go to a great hotel and just stay in the hotel. Obviously, how boring is that. But you know, the night market is walkable, all the craft stores, all of that stuff I was so into. In fact, I brought you one of the objects from our home that was from that trip. Should I get it? Yeah, yeah, I mean to get it. Yeah, you can hold one and I'll hold one.

00:18:31
Speaker 1: So I have no idea what these on nine Okay.

00:18:33
Speaker 2: So I didn't have any idea what they were either. One of the things that we organized was this boat trip down the Mee Kung River to see these caves of all the Buddha and which was incredible. And then on the way back, the boat stopped and docked on the Mee Kung and we walked this main street of this super super remote village and there were shops, so obviously that somebody had organized like this for people visiting. But they were the kinds of shops where like they were like old teak cases with broken glass panes and like they would turn the light on in each case as you looked, And these were in there, and I was using my phone to translate, and I was like, what are they? And he just kept saying they're silver, They're silver. And I was like, Okay, how much are they because now I don't care what they are, I just want them right now. And he said they're two hundred dollars. And I put them back on the shelf and Jeremiah, who had spotted them, I walked out without them, and he said, what are you doing? And I said, the guy wants two hundred dollars, Like we're in the middle of absolutely nowhere. He's insane. That is like so rude. It's like we're like the farrang Like he's completely taking advantage of us. And Jeremiah was like, turn around, go back into that shop, give him his two hundred dollars, tell him thank you. I don't. We are not leaving this village without those things. So we brought them back to the hotel, put them in the suitcase, and then brought them back to New York City and clean them up. And they were actually they're silver tusk ornaments. Oh isn't that cool? Yeah, And we use them actually with handles, yeah, in them, but they're among sort of my favorite thing and so things. And when I talk so much in my book or in my practice and design about how things matter and how they should connect us to our memories, I mean, this is like the perfect memory, me cheaping out in the middle of you know, the most exotic place in the world. I would be furious with myself if I didn't have these. And Jeremiah reminding me again, like you know, I tell people all the time, like when you see something incredible, just get it something.

00:20:42
Speaker 1: I mean, I have some of the most treasured things that I've just gone actually know what, I'm not going to haggle around this. I'm just going to go for it. And then sometimes you realize both that they have this immense sentimental value of the particular moment if you're describing, and or they actually might end up being valuable yeah or really not, yeah or not, it doesn't matter. I think, Yeah. I think it's like it's.

00:21:06
Speaker 2: Just a tangible thing that wasn't meant to be a souvenir, right. I think that that's always my framing around something. I hate things that were designed to be a souvenir. All these beautiful places, these wonderful countries that we visit, and the markets have been taken over by things made in China and things made by machine. And it's like you see like these machine made blankets and you're like, what is happening? But when something's not designed to be taken with you, that to me is like always the best. It's like the only real rule of thumb.

00:21:38
Speaker 1: Was it the same trip that when you went to Laos and also Kembiden.

00:21:41
Speaker 2: No, it wasn't at least twenty years apart, oh, right of fifteen years apart Okay and Cambodia. I was very early on. They were quite specific about going to the all the archaeological sites. You had to walk in a single file line behind the guide. You couldn't venture off, you couldn't go off and take photos because they were still very much in the very early days of clearing all the landmines, right, So it was really dangerous. But I went there with Fernando Okay. So it was the same trip as the Indian Ocean tsunami for me. Right started in Bangkok, went to Cambodia, went back to Thailand and then to Shri Lanka.

00:22:22
Speaker 1: So ankle what yeah, and the temples? Did you How much time did you spend there?

00:22:27
Speaker 2: We were there for six days I think, but it was like six real days because we had been in Southeast Asia for a beat, so it wasn't like we arrived exhausted, and you know, it was it was absolutely phenomenal. I hear that it's changed entirely right from like that road from the airport is now resorts and all these like crazy casinos and all these things. And it was not that there were a few hotels in that area. The alman hadn't opened there yet when I was there, and we stayed in like this sort of grand, kind of dusty hotel at the end of the of the square. But it was we were picked up every day and brought exploring to a different site, and it was amazing.

00:23:09
Speaker 1: Did you do hot air balloons?

00:23:11
Speaker 2: Is that? No?

00:23:11
Speaker 1: That was pre Yeah. I have a theory about like hot air balloons. I think the only chic thing to do is when there's a thousand of them or one of them. Yes, And so I would actually, I would, actually I actually quite like to do. There's nothing more embarrassing than like three hot air balloons like brutal.

00:23:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, it's like it starts to take on the form of like a tandem bike.

00:23:33
Speaker 1: Because one of the things that I would love to do in the States, and I've done something similar, is the Albuquerque Hot air Balloons.

00:23:39
Speaker 2: I've done that.

00:23:39
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah, was it kind of amazing?

00:23:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It was particularly great. I went with my stepfather and my brother and he had organized that and our last morning that's what we did, and it was really cool. It's really really cool, and I'm fascinated by the American Southwest as well.

00:23:58
Speaker 1: So yeah, I love Santa Fe. It's been a bit of time. Yeah, it's amazing. It's probably have you ever been to the Folk Museum? Yeah, I mean, I mean this tends to come up in almost every conversation of of all I have with anyone. Aesthetic, it's like insane.

00:24:15
Speaker 2: Well, it's also such an epicenter of crafts. Yeah, and design. I mean really, if you look around, it's like, again, everything from like amazing. My mother used to call it a chunk of turquoise. I'm in pursuit of a chunk of turkose. But you know, it's it's just all the weaving and the blankets and the textiles mixed with the jewelry and all of that stuff. I mean, yeah, bring it on.

00:24:35
Speaker 1: It's one of the great American aesthetics.

00:24:39
Speaker 2: Canalyzed beautifully by Ralph.

00:24:41
Speaker 1: Oh, that's true. Actually, I didn't think about.

00:24:43
Speaker 2: That, of course, low Country it's all really yeah, right.

00:24:47
Speaker 1: Of course. Yeah, just on the on the hot air balloon. I still do want to do that above the temples dawn with a thousand of them. I think that's so incredible. Yeah, And I sort of feel like I'm not the person that's so like orthodox about no places can't have visitors, you know that it has to stay in the same way. Like it's such a like a balance where you know, some places are destroyed by too much tourism, but then you want people to see it. It's a constant friction point for me, Like I think about, like post pandemic, going to so many different places actually during the pandemic, because I managed to be able to travel in some way, and then I would see places that were completely empty and it was quite a depressing thing. Yeah, a lot of people would talk about how a certain place was empty, like Venice, and that was honestly one of the most extraordinary things to see poetry in stone. But at the same time, if you think about the food culture there, the people there that work in hospitality, well almost all of them well exactly, and that was kind of a devastating thing to see. So, you know, it was kind of a great lesson. But do you often travel to Venice?

00:26:06
Speaker 2: I do. Actually, I really love Venice. It's Jeremiah's favorite place, huh. And actually, what's really interesting is that it's such a special place for Jeremiah and me that we've never brought the children, and so our kids are super well traveled. Our daughter was the lead flower girl in a friend's wedding in Rome at age three, you know, and we've been traveling since then. Our children whenever we're leaving, they usually say to us, but which Mexico, which is great? Yeah, you know, totally. But you know, the kids have been a lot of places, and obviously we spend a lot a great deal of time in Portugal as well, but they've never been to Venice. And I think we're kind of saving it because it's.

00:26:43
Speaker 1: Nice, for sure, you know, and I think it's like it's one of those things that the first time is it of course reveals itself like forever more. You can go a million times, a million times, but there's only one.

00:26:58
Speaker 2: First time, correct when the boat goes around the corner from the station. No, it's just insane, It's true.

00:27:05
Speaker 1: This episode of Traveling Through is sponsored by Capital One. Capital one card holders are passionate about unforgettable experien answers. Together, we partner to connect these curious travelers to world cultures through expert guided journeys from the peaks of much Epitachu to the grand architecture of Vienna. These once in a lifetime trips take you somewhere truly off the beaten path. Through Capital one Entertainment, eligible cardholders can book exclusive experiences and so much more, all while earning elevated rewards. Savor card holders an eight percent cash back and venture X earns five x miles. Thanks to Capital One, your dream getaway is one step closer. I went to Syria right before the war, and what was interesting then is that it wasn't full of junk because it wasn't geared too. You know, sometimes if you go to the Grand Bazaar in Istanbul or the Medina in Marrakesh. You find things that are just obviously have nothing to do with the place, are reproductions, and that can be kind of kind of sad.

00:28:04
Speaker 2: I just once at the Grand Bazaar and had to have this like set of twelve balls desperately. I had not seen the motif, I had not seen the glazing, I had not seen anything. They were like an ecot pattern on the exterior, and then this really beautiful medallion in the bottom. And I hesitated because I didn't want to carry them. And then they of course were like, no problem, we can ship them, and I was like, okay, great, So I bought them, and then I came home and they were in the anthropology catalog. I was like, what's happening?

00:28:33
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I went with two of my closest friends last year, actually, both whom are very spiritual and not about possessions. But evidently I took off down the down the kind of alley in the Grand Bazaar and then I turned around. I was like, where are the girls, Like what are they doing? And I was completely lost, had no idea. Backtracked a little bit and then it was counterfeit ali and what what do I do? But then I go in there and they're like, these are perfectly Chanelle. I mean they're probably the same makers. Blah blah blah blah blah. Anyway, so they left with Chanelle's shoes and I had to buy something in order to get them out of the Just let me go. I often travel to food markets YEP as the first jumping off point when I go to a place, i'd sell people all the time. My background is in food, so I look there and that's kind of my map to a menu for all the seasons or even the environment. I understand that you go to markets like market market. Yeah, and we just did a trip together prior and Capital One and you too to Merida, which I like. That's a place of great craft and things that you can find in the market.

00:29:42
Speaker 2: You know. It's also such an interesting intersection. Meredia. I was very good friends with the painter and sculptor James Brown and his wife Alexandra Brown. They had a publishing house in Mereada. He painted in Mereada. They raised their children in a hacienda, and Wahaka sort of left New York in the eighties. He was represented by Castelli. It was a really interesting time and the children used to come greet visitors with like spiders crawling up their arms, and I remember the jeweler Kenny Lane was like the my own children are savages and it's just like this really like great world. But they were the ones that introduced me to Mereda because they bought a one of those great houses that looks like nothing from the street and then open zone. They're so beautiful, They're so incredible. So my first trip was with them, And you know, I think in travel and in life, we have these people who are sort of like our shirt bahs who guide us and like whatever experience we have, if they're present, they make something that much more magical. And the Brown family was definitely like that for me in my twenties, and I remember being totally taken with Mereda then. So to be able to bring a group of people back with Prior and Capital One was the most incredible experience for me because I have a lot of friends there. I love it there. I sort of, you know, am fascinated still by it, and it also is a city that's growing and has continued to grow in I guess I'm not sure I'm the correct person to say, but what the right way.

00:31:09
Speaker 1: Yea, yeah, yeah, I agree with you. When you're go into Merida, what do you buy there? What do you take on?

00:31:14
Speaker 2: I mean it's embarrassing. I had like a suitcase. Christy Slocum, who's here while we're recording, had to bring a suitcase of stuff from Mereda to our home in Portugal because I needed it because Architectural Digest was coming to shoot the house in Portugal a week after that trip, and so I was like, these tassels, I need these embroidered I need these embroidered pillow covers for the children's bed. Quite works well in like it does work like that whole like yeah, comport meat and we're in the North Alent, so it's like it's like a very rustic, kind of funny situation. The house is not, but but all of my homes, all of my interiors have always been filled with Mexican craft since day one. And my beach bag is from you know, chop Us, and like it's just I've I just feel very I feel great surrounding myself with things that have been made by hand.

00:32:09
Speaker 1: Well, it was literally what was about to come out of my mouth when I think of Mexico and I think, you know, there's kind of superpowers of every place by hand is what I think about when I think about Mexico and I think about it from of course exactly, I think is completely.

00:32:28
Speaker 2: All crafted by hand. The chips exactly, I mean, you know, and that's my dad is my biggest barometer for a Mexican destination, because I have traveled extensively throughout Mexico, the colonial cities and all these things, and inland and the interior of the country I find more interesting than the coasts. But if you sit down and you have a bad chip, I'm out.

00:32:49
Speaker 1: So why why did you choose Portugal?

00:32:52
Speaker 2: We have conflicting stories about this in our family. I wanted visas for our family. It was during Trump's first presidency. Well, Jeremiah wanted a beautiful place, and he's actually Portuguese on his mother's side. I had no idea family from the Azores, which is why he looks like that, which is so annoying, Like he had to come from an island where everybody's beautiful. It's a wonder woman like this is so stupid. So he has Portuguese background, does not speak Portuguese yet because it sort of died off with his grandmother. But we have a really good friend who lived in New York for fifteen years, quit New York and moved back to Portugalese Portuguese, but not to Porto where he was from, to this region and the Alan Tajhow that is really really special. I went through this whole thing, you know, Marjorie Goobleman. Marjorie was doing this whole program.

00:33:48
Speaker 1: I've never actually met.

00:33:50
Speaker 2: Really, No, she was like my first friend in New York. Oh really, she's so yeah, beyond iconic. So she said to me, I'm leaving New York. I'm moving to Lisbon. I don't want to be a poor old lady. It's not a good look for me. I said, that's really true. That's a terrible look for you. No truer words ever spoken.

00:34:08
Speaker 1: We were ironically. Of course, she would be the last person that would be like that.

00:34:11
Speaker 2: She would be, I mean, who knows. She's very smart in that old waspy way. She knows exactly how much everything should cost, and she gets very excited with a two year row uber. She calls me to tell me, I call is probably more expensive than the uber, but I will say that, you know, I went through this whole thing and did all the paperwork in the it's a zoo and I hate stuff like that, like apostle documents and whatever. And then I put all the paperwork in front of Jeremiah and instead of signing it, he called our friend Andre Vianna and said, isn't there anything like amazing? Have you seen anything? And Andre said, I actually was going to buy this farm. I don't need it, I don't want it, but it's so beautiful. I don't want anyone to ruin it come tomorrow, which we did, and we bought it that afternoon, and then we flew home and looked at each other and we're sort of like, what have we done? But Portugal has been a really interesting place for me. It was never really on a bucket list. It was never something I paid attention to. I don't eat seafood, so all of that.

00:35:07
Speaker 1: But you're a little bit in your inland, right.

00:35:10
Speaker 2: We are inland, but we spend summers there as well. We rent a house at the beach in comport of every other French puth's beautiful. Yeah, I love it. Our friends are always kind of inviting us to their desolate beaches and sometimes we go but often we stay at our club with the button where they bring you a Sunday when you press it. So I mean, we have a really nice group of friends there. And we also have this incredibly beautiful parcel of land. It's a it's an eighteenth century working farm with water channels and two springs, so it's completely self sustainable. We have sheep and three massive dogs and three peacock and olive trees and every fruit grove and the fruit is delicious and we make orange juice every morning. And I'm hesitant when I'm talking about it, because I really have this sensitivity towards like people from anywhere else who you know, have successful careers and then they move to this rural place and they're like, it's so quiet, it's so amazing, And it's like, right, it's so quiet and so amazing because you have the money to be able to do that.

00:36:09
Speaker 1: Hey, but I think that, like yes, And also I know because a lot of these communities are dying out and if they don't get.

00:36:17
Speaker 2: That's the best part, because we are integrated into this village and the people that help us with the farm are all from the village, and so it's so great and there's so much goodwill around our family and around our children in this area, and people don't bad and eye when they see two men with their kids in the grocery store, never once. Conversely, they watch old episodes of our makeover show in like rural Portugal and they're like the guys, the guys, the guys, and we're like, yes, we're the guys. Now do you say a pound of ground beef? So it's great, said, The Portuguese is coming along somehow. I mean, listen, I can sort of get by. I speak French and can get my way through Spanish and Italian if I need to. So there's certain things I can understand when somebody's speaking to me. But I'm really there's no vowels.

00:37:06
Speaker 1: I'm completely lost with Portuguese.

00:37:08
Speaker 2: It's horrifying. Yeah, it's really hard. It sounds like a cross between like Spanish and Russian to me, like it's just a very or some like or check or something. It's like, I don't I it's it's it's tough.

00:37:20
Speaker 1: I know that there's there's been such a huge expat surge and revival kind of. I remember going to Christian lu Button's house, yeah, because he was the like early adopter Earl of Lisbon. And then of course he has an incredible hotel in Militis, which is just south of Comporter, and I know there's a big it's a huge community there in in Lisbon, and that's given a new life to it, and there's also risks, and I think that they need to thread the needle a little bit do. But in the countryside, people I think forget that Portugal was like the poor man of Europe in a lot of ways, and it was under a fascist dictatorship until not that long ago.

00:37:59
Speaker 2: Well, the whole aristocracy and most of the wealthy families had to flee to Brazil, you know, for most of the sixties and some of the seventies as well, and when they returned, they came back to an economy that was really broken. So Portugal is like thirty years behind the rest of you. That has its charm, but there is this sort of innate joy that we've found. It's very very family center. It's obviously very focused on nature and preservation and slow sort of living and thoughtful interaction, and that is that obviously will have has a universal appeal.

00:38:39
Speaker 1: I have a friend, you know, Noah, who has the project in Situs. Yeah, so effectively, what in situ is is that they kind of work with particular communities to maintain and revive artisanal crafts. He's a very very contemporary designer. He just did this like lighting collection for Diore, but he's got this amazing project, so he tries to look at the vernacular of a particular place and then preserve it. I say that because there's two things that people I think don't really realize in Portugal. I wonder if you agree, like, actually, if you've got made in Portugal shoes, you're on a winner, right, And then also sheets, yeah, and the embroidery, like you get into some of those nuns, Like.

00:39:21
Speaker 2: It's unbelievable equality. And I would also say, you know a lot of what I sell things at mass so I can pay for the gardener in Portugal, but you know, I sell bath mats made in Portugal to put the money back into Portugal. There you bath MAT's are high quality, exactly, there you go. But what I think is really interesting about craft as it applies to Portugal is that there is sort of nothing of bad quality, and even these mills that are mass producing things for these US or European department stores and things like that, even the Spanish department stores. I mean most of the cotton, almost cotton in Spain is from Portugal. So it's like even those great kids clothes, like the most Spanish children's closing is the most beautiful in the world to me, but like all of that is made or the material is from Portugal. But there's just so much of that there and it's so so great.

00:40:18
Speaker 1: Does it feel like that house has a sense of permanence view?

00:40:22
Speaker 2: We feel very much like the caretakers like that Paddock campaign, basically like you never own it, you just hang on to it to the next generation. It's like that's sort of what I feel is the is the calling around the house and sort of the the tenant that we both feel and are very activated by. And interestingly enough, we renovated Jeremiah did not me, renovated one of the homes on the on the land on the farm for his parents, so his mom and stepfather lived there full time, and we basically at any given moment of three generations already so that already sort of kicked off what I feel. And our daughter has already said that that's where she wants to be married, So I hope that's.

00:41:04
Speaker 1: True, sonight. We like every time, every time a friend comes on, I ask them some questions, kind of like a lightning round. Let's say, so, where's a place that you would always return Portugal? Where's a place you never go back?

00:41:22
Speaker 2: Carbo? And I'm forced to go back because everybody has a party there. Really, yes, everyone from Los Angeles thinks it's the coolest place in the world.

00:41:31
Speaker 1: Maybe I have no friends, you does not have?

00:41:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't know you have.

00:41:35
Speaker 1: The right friends. Do you have a favorite hotel?

00:41:38
Speaker 2: No, not one. I mean I really love a well run hotel, something sort of either historic or designed forward.

00:41:46
Speaker 1: What's the What's the one that first comes to mind when you say.

00:41:49
Speaker 2: That, the Hacienda de San Antonio, which was leased by the Amman in Kolima in Mexico. It was Alex Goldsmith's Yeah.

00:41:57
Speaker 1: You have property and he has a Cuish maler.

00:42:00
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And it was this kind of incredible place in this dewey, foggy hilltop in the central highlands of Mexico. But I think it's still there, but it's not run by I'm on any longer, and not that that matters. But you know it's sort of amazing.

00:42:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, he had that fantastical, eccentric English thing that like sometimes when it's brought to bear in a particular place, can make something truly magical.

00:42:25
Speaker 2: Magical, Yes, exactly.

00:42:27
Speaker 1: What about a memorable meal or favorite restaurant.

00:42:29
Speaker 2: I kind of have a favorite restaurant everywhere I go, and I mean everywhere I go. Like in Chicago, where I have offices, it's Pennies Noodle Shop where you can have Thai food for seven dollars.

00:42:40
Speaker 1: But it's is a great food town.

00:42:43
Speaker 2: Oh, it's a great food town. In Milan, it's Lungey. In Paris, It's Shay George in Lisbon. I actually like jinse Kwai Asia, like really into that menu. I think it makes me really and their kids love it. So there's a spot wherever we are that that's sort of we always go back to.

00:43:04
Speaker 1: What about museum or cultural institution.

00:43:06
Speaker 2: I actually really like the Raina Sofia in Madrid. I'm not sure why I'm so drawn to it and so happy and comfortable there. Probably because the interiors are largely intact, and I like to see that. I don't love an empty room. My eye kind of just skips over it too quickly. But when there's like furniture, it makes me really happy. I think here in New York, the Noi Gallery is one of the most beautiful museums in the world.

00:43:31
Speaker 1: Also one of the best gift shops.

00:43:33
Speaker 2: Yes, incredible. Yeah, and great library like in that gift shop as well.

00:43:38
Speaker 1: Okay, well this is probably impossible for you, but shop all market. Oh it's not good at all market.

00:43:45
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the best market in the entire world is the flea market in Parma. Oh well, I mean, I cannot get I mean it's it's not charming. It's a series of airplane hangars.

00:44:01
Speaker 1: It's a convention center.

00:44:02
Speaker 2: It is, for sure convention center, but the hangars are divided. You've been, I'm.

00:44:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually for the first time really October.

00:44:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my god, I'm so jealous. Yeah, I've been in a beat. But the first time I went, I was dating this guy who lived in Milan. A friend of mine was like, oh, yeah, I'm going to go to Parma. It's a flea market. If you're interested. I'm like, if I'm interested, And I went, and I had nothing with me, and we were going to go for a couple of hours and come back to Milan and I bought a toothbrush, I got a hotel room, I wore the same clothes. I'm not leading there exactly, Like this could burn down and I'm still going to be the last person out of it.

00:44:42
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting because it's somewhat entire. You know a lot of these fairs have been a little hollowed out by the online auction houses, but this one really really nice. Yeah, it's definitely worth going. I have a great friend who helped me with my apartment in Milan called Fanny, who has studio Dragon, and so she's sort of like guiding me gently and or not so gently, And we went there and it was kind of heaven.

00:45:08
Speaker 2: So I well, also it was like a time in Milan when there was nothing to buy. There were like four antique stealers or vintage stealers. And I remember this was JJ Martin and me before JJ started her company, so she kind of had nothing to do. I certainly had nothing to do. And in Milanai's slaying, there's a there's term called a shura, which you know, JJ and I were like the veramente shura, like we were the housewives wearing like the Berbery raincoat and the gold jewelry and just hanging out at sant Ambrose and getting frank.

00:45:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was, I'm on the right track.

00:45:48
Speaker 2: You are doing a really good job.

00:45:50
Speaker 1: Actually, maybe not my app general attitude, the mental state, it is very very much.

00:45:55
Speaker 2: I can feel it. It's a kindred spirit.

00:45:57
Speaker 1: So I ask everyone where they would, in an ideal world, removing all constraints of our lives or distance, where they'd like to spend a weekend, a week, a month, and a year.

00:46:10
Speaker 2: I would spend a weekend in maybe Rome, a week in the Yuka ten. I don't want to be there for a month because my hair gets weird. I would be in for so a week in the Yuka ten, a month in maybe Southeast Asia, like Vietnam, Thailand, lows, something like that. Though, now that I'm saying that out aloud, it starts to feel a little long. Maybe traveling around in that region, because is that a fair answer? Okay? And a year would be at the farm in Portugal with the family.

00:46:45
Speaker 1: The very last question I'll ask you and interpret it however you wish, is what are you traveling through right now?

00:46:52
Speaker 2: Wow? I'm traveling through a lot right now. I'm traveling through the joys of fatherhood, which is incredibly rewarding in all these different ways. I'm also traveling through sort of a reboot of my brand, which has been really interesting. We've signed like sort of eight new licensing deals in the last two years, and we're working with all these really interesting partners in all these different categories. So I feel very re energized around that. I'm traveling through what my next sort of television project should be, what it should look like, what it should be about. And there's lots of things swirling around that right now as well that I you know, I'm fifty three. I don't want to make like a decision just to be on TV. I've never that's never been the goal. And I'm traveling through a mother who has dementia, which is you know, my mom was such an incredibly forceful, wonderful sort of guide to me as a child, as a teenager, and as a young business person. So it's a really interesting time for the family in that way.

00:47:57
Speaker 1: We have to archive all of those memories and objects.

00:48:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, we do.

00:48:02
Speaker 1: Thanks Nate, thank you. It's been a real pleasure

00:48:13
Speaker 2: Here now