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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media, Hello, and welcome to cool people who

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Speaker 1: did cool stuff. You're a weekly reminder. Then what Margaret

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Speaker 1: is it doesn't have a producer. She forgets to do

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Speaker 1: the credits, but not this time because I and Margaret

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Speaker 1: Hill Joy. That's one of the credits. Another credit is

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Speaker 1: Samantha McVeigh our our guest. I was gonna say host,

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Speaker 1: but I'm the host.

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Speaker 2: Uh, you're the host. I'm definitely not leading this charge.

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Speaker 1: You sure I can send you the script? You could

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Speaker 1: just read it to me?

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, could you imagine fun? Could you imagine

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Speaker 2: what happens?

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Speaker 1: Especially because my script is like, I mean, it makes sense,

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Speaker 1: but it's not like perfect anyway, whatever, it's not exactly

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Speaker 1: what I read.

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Speaker 2: Mine is like plot points, and I was like, good luck.

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Speaker 1: When I first started doing the show, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna do plot points. And Sophie was like,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna write a script and I was like, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna write a script and I'm so glad. But it's

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Speaker 1: a different it's a slightly different format. You know.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say you were just heavily researched, and

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Speaker 2: our heavily research, but not to this level. Right, like

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Speaker 2: we have a lot of like quotes and numbers and

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Speaker 2: statistics like that's what we have.

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Speaker 1: I think totally the kind of thing you can do

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Speaker 1: in like several hours as you're getting ready for an episode.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't have to read a lot of books,

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Speaker 2: although I have.

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Speaker 1: Well, thank you for helping me prove my point that

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Speaker 1: I will forget the credits. But I remember that was

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Speaker 1: just finish the credits, our producer. I mean, there's actually

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Speaker 1: literally nothing that says I have to This is like

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Speaker 1: the way I do it, and so then I feel

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Speaker 1: like I always have to do it the same way.

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Speaker 1: Our producer, Sophie Licktraman, who isn't here right now, and

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Speaker 1: so it's just.

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Speaker 2: Us we miss you, I.

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Speaker 1: Know, and our audio engineers Rory Hi, Rory Hi, Rory.

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Speaker 1: Our theme music was written for us by Unwoman. And

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Speaker 1: this is part two in a two parter. So don't worry.

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Speaker 1: You're halfway there or unfortunately you're halfway there. I guess

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Speaker 1: depends on how much it's sad, I know, but it's

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Speaker 1: a two parter about Bethel House, which is a group

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Speaker 1: of mostly schizophrenic folks in Japan who have fundamentally changed

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Speaker 1: a lot of understandings around how we can deal with

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Speaker 1: psychiatric care and it. If you want more background, you

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Speaker 1: can also listen to our Fountainhouse episodes, although that's thousands

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Speaker 1: of miles away. But we were just talking about how

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Speaker 1: Bethel House has built a perfect slacker worker owner culture

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Speaker 1: and one of their core principles, this is the one

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Speaker 1: that challenges me the most. One of their core principles

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Speaker 1: is meeting before eating. That is to say, everything is

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Speaker 1: a meeting. I don't think it's specifically trying to say

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Speaker 1: like you can't eat until you finish a meeting. I

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Speaker 1: think what they're saying is like meeting is even more

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Speaker 1: important than food. But I'm not one hundred percent certain,

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Speaker 1: even though I've read a couple different takes on this,

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Speaker 1: everything is a meeting at Bethel House. As an anarchist,

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Speaker 1: I am used to this. I also dread it, But

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Speaker 1: when it's stuff that actually matters to me with people

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Speaker 1: I care about, it's not so bad. Every morning they

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Speaker 1: have a meeting with whatever members show up. Right, if

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Speaker 1: you join the Battelhouse, you're not like forced to come

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Speaker 1: a certain forced to do anything. But if you show

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Speaker 1: up to the meeting, every person in the room, staff

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Speaker 1: and members both will go around and discuss how they're doing,

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Speaker 1: both physically and psychologically, and then how many hours they

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Speaker 1: feel like working that day.

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Speaker 2: They set their own schedule.

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Speaker 1: I like it, yeah, and then basically the person who

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Speaker 1: facilitates the worker, owner, business or whatever that day will

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Speaker 1: then be like, okay, well if you're working from twelve

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Speaker 1: thirty to one fifteen, then you know, and they like

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Speaker 1: do all the balancing to make it work right. This

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Speaker 1: takes a long ass time at this morning meeting talking

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Speaker 1: about how they feel and how long they want to work.

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Speaker 1: It also means that everyone's health is everyone's business. And

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Speaker 1: it also means you know who's really grouchy and wants

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Speaker 1: to be left alone that day? And that's really relatable.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes when I'm in meetings, I kind of start off

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Speaker 1: by being like, I'm grouchy, going to mostly stay off Mike.

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Speaker 1: As for those staff members, they have no lanyards, they

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Speaker 1: have no uniforms, there's nothing to distinguish them from members.

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Speaker 1: These are like the social workers and stuff who they

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Speaker 1: hire to to help them. After the check ins, people

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Speaker 1: from each business give detailed reports down to reading like

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Speaker 1: all the mail order orders that have come in the

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Speaker 1: mail and stuff. And the reason for that is that

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Speaker 1: this fairly rotating cast of people doing the work right,

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Speaker 1: and so you don't want to feel like, well, I

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Speaker 1: worked yesterday and if I don't work today, everything's going

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Speaker 1: to fall apart. And so there's like really detailed report backs.

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Speaker 1: For example, my friend while while he was there, they

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Speaker 1: had a radio station and they you know, ran radio broadcasts,

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Speaker 1: and he went and he asked and he was like, well,

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Speaker 1: what if no one wants to work at the radio

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Speaker 1: station today? And then the guy was like, well, and

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Speaker 1: then there is a radio station today, that's fine. If

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Speaker 1: no one feels like doing the work, then it probably

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Speaker 1: shouldn't get done. Eh.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna ask that question. What happens when they

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Speaker 2: just wake up to say I don't want to do this

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Speaker 2: today and no one does whatever needed so they just like, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 2: not getting done today.

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Speaker 1: Then it doesn't happen, huh, and they just deal with it.

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Speaker 2: I like that attitude.

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Speaker 1: And this is actually one of the things that differs

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Speaker 1: from the clubhouse model the fountainhouse model, which also has

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Speaker 1: kind of an emphasis on worker owned businesses and emphasis

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Speaker 1: on getting work done and what happens if like a

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Speaker 1: Fountainhouse member has a job outside of Fountainhouse, like they

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Speaker 1: have a job at like a regular business. Is that

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Speaker 1: if they can't work because of their you know, mental

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Speaker 1: health issues, then a staff member from Fountainhouse will go

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Speaker 1: and do the work, right, like one of the social

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Speaker 1: workers who's hired by them will like go. But with

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Speaker 1: with Bethel House, it's like, well, it just doesn't get done.

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Speaker 1: That's okay, not even as like a passive aggressive like, well,

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Speaker 1: I guess we don't have a radio station today.

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Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, I guess you can't.

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Speaker 1: We can't have that today. Oh well yeah, and whose

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Speaker 1: fault is that? And so that way, like the number

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Speaker 1: of businesses they have like kind of ebbs and flows, right,

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Speaker 1: so it's not even like seen as a failure that

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Speaker 1: they like used to have more and they have less

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Speaker 1: now or whatever. You know, Like businesses come and go

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Speaker 1: as people feel like doing them. It's so interesting, and

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Speaker 1: they run a bunch of successful businesses with this model.

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Speaker 1: Most of them are supplementing their income with social services

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Speaker 1: and things like disability payments and things. But yeah, they

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Speaker 1: run businesses interesting. And this doesn't mean they don't have worries.

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Speaker 1: They actually cultivate worry to some degree. Psychiatric hospitals are

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Speaker 1: designed to remove your ability to worry. This is a

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Speaker 1: way that it gets praised. So Bethel is designed to

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Speaker 1: make sure you can worry. Problems should be welcomed and solved,

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Speaker 1: not fear and run from. And when they have problems

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Speaker 1: socially at Bethel House, which they do constantly, right, these

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Speaker 1: are welcomed as well. There's a psychiatrist who works at

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Speaker 1: the hospital who also works with Bethel House's name is

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Speaker 1: doctor Kawa mura or at least he did. Again, a

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Speaker 1: lot of like the book that I'm referencing came out

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Speaker 1: in twenty thirteen, and most of the ethnographic work and

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Speaker 1: it would happen in two thousand and five. And you know,

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Speaker 1: but doctor Kawa Murha, a psychiatrist at the hospital said, quote,

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Speaker 1: it's overwhelming the richness of their self expression. They're very loud.

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Speaker 1: I think it's important that they are able to express

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Speaker 1: anger and get into fights with their peers. When you're

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Speaker 1: angry at someone, in reality, you want their love. So

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Speaker 1: being able to express your anger is extremely healthy. If

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Speaker 1: you aren't able to express anger, what happens is that

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Speaker 1: the anger turns into malice in contrast to anger, Malice

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Speaker 1: is the desire to destroy the other party and is pathological.

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Speaker 2: That sounds very Buddhist.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, probably. Yeah. Oh it's interesting, yeah, because it's like

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Speaker 1: such a like mm.

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Speaker 2: Hmm, it's kind of that whole like balance, yeah, ideals

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Speaker 2: and like like if you're true like Buddhism and like

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Speaker 2: nothing this level. But but the fact is that it

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Speaker 2: has to have a way to have a resolution and

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Speaker 2: whether if you how you handle it, what that resolution

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Speaker 2: will be.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting, that's cool. I really yeah, like I

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Speaker 1: really like this idea. It really like through me when

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Speaker 1: it was like anger means that you want someone to love,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, no, I'm angry at people all the time.

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Speaker 1: And then I'm like, I mean one is just words

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Speaker 1: being different things depending on the context in which we

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Speaker 1: use them, right, but clearly because there are like I've

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Speaker 1: been in social circles where we all start yelling at

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Speaker 1: each other and arguing and stuff, right, and often that

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Speaker 1: is around like I feel isolated and I'm not heard

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Speaker 1: because you don't care about me, and so now I'm angry,

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Speaker 1: you know. Also, as part of their meeting culture, besides

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Speaker 1: just being willing to argue is that they sing a

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Speaker 1: whole bunch of songs, including one called the Welcome to

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Speaker 1: Bethel Song, and I'm not going to sing it.

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Speaker 2: Oh, come on, you're a musicians. Come on, I know what.

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Speaker 1: It's not in my head at all. But I have

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Speaker 1: the lyrics, okay, and it These are some of them,

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Speaker 1: it's not all of them. Isn't schizophrenia terrible? With its hallucinations,

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Speaker 1: voices and delusions. You just can't stand not doing anything,

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Speaker 1: so you end up cutting yourself. Isn't insomnia terrible? Making

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Speaker 1: noise at all hours of the night, you keep your

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Speaker 1: family up, no one in the neighborhood slept all night.

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Speaker 1: Isn't mental illness terrible? It is our gift from God.

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Speaker 1: Even if we're different from normal people, we're all first

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Speaker 1: class sickos. I like that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, me too, first class Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And you know they're describing that, the fact that they're like, well,

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Speaker 1: this is hard. I kind of wish this wasn't the

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Speaker 1: way I was, but like, it's all right, this is

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Speaker 1: who I am. I'm not trying to fix it. I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to live with it. Most of any given day

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Speaker 1: is meetings. There's the Friday afternoon meeting in which people

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Speaker 1: talk about the entire week. There's also social skills training meeting,

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Speaker 1: so it's like meeting is kind of being used flexibly here.

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Speaker 1: There's also like workshops and stuff. Right, yeah, so they

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Speaker 1: have a social skills training meeting and people can go

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Speaker 1: to this. Everything is optional, as I understand it, and

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Speaker 1: you can go and then talk about social situations coming

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Speaker 1: up and then like workshop them and be like how

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Speaker 1: should I handle this social situation? And you can ask

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Speaker 1: for help, you can get for feedback about what you've

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Speaker 1: already done. They roll play situations and then talk about

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Speaker 1: what they could have done better, and then like switch

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Speaker 1: and you're like, now you're going to be the guy

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Speaker 1: who's talking to you instead. You know. M many, but

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Speaker 1: not all of the members live in various group homes

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Speaker 1: that work is housing co ops. I don't know about

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Speaker 1: the ownership structure, but they're all equals living there as

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Speaker 1: far as I can tell. I read one really relatable

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Speaker 1: piece by a hardcore shutting who described how she liked

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Speaker 1: living in a group home because even when she ignored

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Speaker 1: everyone all the time, she still always ate because people

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Speaker 1: figured out how to feed each other. She was like,

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Speaker 1: I would have starved to death. I was living alone.

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Speaker 1: Now people make sure I eat and then I ignore them.

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Speaker 1: All Over the decades, Bethel House has expanded, but not wildly.

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Speaker 1: So there's about one hundred or one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: people currently involved in it, depending on which source I'm reading.

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Speaker 1: They've bought several properties as people leave the tiny dying town.

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Speaker 1: They bought an abandoned print shop and named it New

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Speaker 1: Bethel where the meetings are now or were again. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know what's happening today. They also

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Speaker 1: bought an old bookstore the owners fled in the middle

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Speaker 1: of the night to avoid creditors. That's like how much

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Speaker 1: of a dying town it is, you know? The downstairs

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Speaker 1: is a storefront called burra braza, which is derived from

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Speaker 1: a word for basically like window shopping or loitering, people

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Speaker 1: who drop by shops just to wander around, and so

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Speaker 1: they like even name it after like, eh, can you

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Speaker 1: buy some of you want? I don't know whatever, you know,

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Speaker 1: like worker owner members might start with seaweed packing in

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Speaker 1: order to practice socializing with just coworkers. Right, You're like,

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Speaker 1: I don't talk to anyone, No one understands me. And

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Speaker 1: then you're like, okay, well go pack Seaweed. They're like, okay,

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Speaker 1: I got kind of used to talking to the people there.

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Speaker 1: Now I might go to the store and deal with

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Speaker 1: strangers and then be like, Nope, tomorrow I'm back to

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Speaker 1: seaweed packing, or tomorrow I'm back to hanging out by

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Speaker 1: myself in bed, you know. And then upstairs of the

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Speaker 1: no longer bookstore of the everything store is Sunshine House,

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Speaker 1: which is a woman only group home of Bethel members,

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Speaker 1: and they have a group that I think is really

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Speaker 1: cool because it's called They have a weekly group called

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Speaker 1: Women Anonymous, which is modeled on Schizophrenics Anonymous, So it's

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Speaker 1: basically just being like, we're going to have our like

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Speaker 1: group therapy talk for just women, and they talk about

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Speaker 1: women's issues, like how to deal with the patriarchy within

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Speaker 1: Bethelhouse because it's not fucking perfect. And I even like

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Speaker 1: with that, I get annoyed because I mean a lot

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Speaker 1: of the work that has been done around this, like

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Speaker 1: a you know, a woman wrote the primary book on this, right,

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Speaker 1: but it's like mostly primarily naming you know, a male doctor,

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Speaker 1: a male minister, but other women are heavily involved in

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Speaker 1: even the initial shaping of the culture, and like, as

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Speaker 1: has happened so many times on episodes, I've done like

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Speaker 1: a little less likely to be the figures that are

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Speaker 1: focused on, and so I usually have far less information

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Speaker 1: about them. Right. One of the things that they've worked

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Speaker 1: hard to do is honor the voices that people deal with.

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Speaker 1: And this is again it's not like a hooray, we

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Speaker 1: have issues, but it's a way to say, like, you

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Speaker 1: know what, there's something interesting here too. People who hear

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Speaker 1: voices are honored, and they sell a bunch of merch

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Speaker 1: festooned with their visions, right, which I think is just

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Speaker 1: a cool way to do it.

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Speaker 2: Technowledge it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Hallucinations are personified as Gensho sons honorable voices,

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Speaker 1: which is a way to separate them out from the

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Speaker 1: people who see them. Right. So it's like that wasn't

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Speaker 1: you that did that? That was a Genho son, And

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Speaker 1: their main brand icon is a Genho son presented as

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Speaker 1: a pac Man figure. And one of the things is

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Speaker 1: like running to eat that guy who's like sort of

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Speaker 1: the mascot, you know, right right, I love that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And these are contrasted with okiakusans, which are honorable visitors,

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Speaker 1: which are negative self thoughts, and these are seen as

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Speaker 1: coming from inside the person. Everyone gets okiakusans, but schizophrenics

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Speaker 1: are the ones who get genho sons. Is the way

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Speaker 1: that they present it, right, So the people who get

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Speaker 1: visions are sort of honored for that, but not in

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Speaker 1: a way where you're like, Oh, everything's totally real, don't worry, right,

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Speaker 1: you know hm. And they teach techniques about how to,

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Speaker 1: for example, get the positive voices in your head to

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Speaker 1: fight back against the negative voices in your head, because

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Speaker 1: everyone has voices in their head, including you, because you're

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Speaker 1: listening to a podcast, and some of those voices you're

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Speaker 1: about to hear aren't our voices, but instead other voices,

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Speaker 1: and it's up to you to determine whether you think

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Speaker 1: they're positive or negative influences on your brain space. Here's

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Speaker 1: your test, and we're back. And so all the while

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Speaker 1: people are not cured, they're learning that they can participate

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Speaker 1: in their own corner of society and interact with mainstream

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Speaker 1: society as kind of a block. Take Kiyoshi, one of

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Speaker 1: the founding members, the guy Who's chased by pac Man.

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Speaker 1: As a kid and young adult, Kiyoshi was hospitalized for

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Speaker 1: seizures and hallucinations on a number of occasions. It's actually

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Speaker 1: interesting because he's like, he's more or less called schizophrenic,

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Speaker 1: but as he's pointed out, he's like, that wasn't really

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Speaker 1: the right diagnosis for what he had had psychiatric problems,

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Speaker 1: you know, right, And while he was at Red Cross Hospital,

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Speaker 1: he started helping out of the church. This is before

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00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:09,720
Speaker 1: Bethel House is the kind of the founding of Bethel House. Right,

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Speaker 1: He would like, go and chop firewood and shit, right,

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Speaker 1: And when he was discharged, he moved into the church

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Speaker 1: with a few folks and then kept helping out, including

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Speaker 1: he was one of these first people packing seaweed. And

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Speaker 1: this didn't cure him. He wasn't like, oh now I

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Speaker 1: can totally get a regular job. He was still troubled.

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Speaker 1: This is according to his own sort of autobiography that

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Speaker 1: he wrote about Its actually, okay, there's a tangent. It's

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Speaker 1: not in my script. There's this whole interesting thing where

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Speaker 1: it's presented as sort of a cultural difference that psychiatric

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Speaker 1: treatment and therapy is much less talk therapy and much

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Speaker 1: less about the past, and so Bethel House is like

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Speaker 1: not very focused on let's talk about what happened in

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Speaker 1: the past, except as a way to study the patterns

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Speaker 1: of how we can move forward. And now I don't

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Speaker 1: remember why that was related, but I remember finding it

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Speaker 1: really interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And so he's he's still troubled. He picks fight,

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Speaker 1: he screams, he has seizures, he has all kinds of issues, right,

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Speaker 1: but he's able to get by a little bit. He's

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Speaker 1: able to live a slightly a life that suits him more.

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Speaker 1: He started teaching at Sunday School and leading some of

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Speaker 1: the prayer groups. And this is his first experience with

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Speaker 1: real responsibility in his life. And this is kind of

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Speaker 1: part of what leads into Bethel House existing. And he

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Speaker 1: found joy and meaning and community in his life and

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Speaker 1: was part of a project that has radically changed society.

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Speaker 1: Even though he still got so anxious that he picked

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Speaker 1: fights and flailed around and got seizures like decades later, right,

336
00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:41,320
Speaker 1: it ruined his romantic relationships. Every time he got serious

337
00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,440
Speaker 1: with somebody, the anxiety would kick in. He'd have to

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Speaker 1: check himself into the hospital for a few days. Early

339
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,879
Speaker 1: antipsychotic medications gave people dry mouth and without saliva, his

340
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:56,520
Speaker 1: teeth rotted out but he lived a really full and

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Speaker 1: I don't know anyway. I actually I couldn't find out.

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Speaker 1: I kept trying to find out whether he was alive

343
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Speaker 1: or dead. Then I didn't succeed.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay.

345
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Speaker 1: Like most members, he lives off of his very modest

346
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Speaker 1: income from the worker cooperatives and also from disability benefits

347
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:13,240
Speaker 1: Japan has or again pad I don't know whatever had

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Speaker 1: a voluntary program that provided the elderly and disabled with

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Speaker 1: financial planning to make sure they aren't scammed, which is

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Speaker 1: cool as shit like because we like constantly try and

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Speaker 1: figure out, like, well, what do you do about the

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Speaker 1: fact that old people keep getting scammed out of their money?

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Speaker 1: Right right? Well, currently you could do financial planning with

354
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Speaker 1: them and help them take care of their money so

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Speaker 1: that no one can scam them out of it. It's cool.

356
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Speaker 2: That's amazing.

357
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Speaker 1: And there's a Bethel Bank that provides loans to its members. Wow.

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Speaker 1: They have a complicated relationship with the rest of the town.

359
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,960
Speaker 1: It started off rocky and not everyone loves them still.

360
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Speaker 1: They are rather neuroatypical and often contentious people, but they

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Speaker 1: provide a lot for their community, including just like raw

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00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,480
Speaker 1: tourist dollars like every town on some levels, like, well,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people come here because you I guess

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00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:09,879
Speaker 1: we don't hate you that much. Really, thousands of people

365
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Speaker 1: come visit every year.

366
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Speaker 2: They actually come to visit, like the organized methyl the organization.

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Speaker 1: To come like to the shops and stuff, to come

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Speaker 1: to the workshops that they lead. And they talk about

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Speaker 1: we're gonna get to the self study thing, I keep

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Speaker 1: promising him, dangling self study in front of you.

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Speaker 2: You really are. I love it.

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Speaker 1: And so once self study as a concept starts spreading

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Speaker 1: around Japan, people want to go to where it started.

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Speaker 2: Does it become like the new like yoga retreat?

375
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Speaker 1: Well, it's funny is that they still like the housing

376
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,480
Speaker 1: that they offer that Bethel House itself offers is like

377
00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,879
Speaker 1: really cheap, like ten dollars a night to sleep on

378
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:50,320
Speaker 1: a futon in a room full of people.

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Speaker 2: You know.

380
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Speaker 1: Yeah, once again we value our lack of profits. These

381
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:03,400
Speaker 1: people absolutely could turned into like a money cult, you know. Yeah,

382
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,080
Speaker 1: and they just didn't. They didn't turn into a cult

383
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,960
Speaker 1: and they didn't turn into like a scam. You know,

384
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Speaker 1: my friend, a social worker at a clubhouse. Person keep

385
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:16,159
Speaker 1: talking about when for a while, for example, right, he

386
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:17,879
Speaker 1: wanted to see like, how are these people doing this?

387
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,280
Speaker 1: This is amazing work that's comparable to his own work.

388
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:22,400
Speaker 1: And he would go in and sit on a sit

389
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Speaker 1: in on meetings. And they also and this brings hundreds

390
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,280
Speaker 1: of Taurus all at once. They throw a Bethel Festival

391
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:33,480
Speaker 1: every year. One of the main events at the Bethel Festival.

392
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Speaker 1: This is the part I probably should have led with

393
00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:39,200
Speaker 1: because it's so cool. Televised all across Japan is the

394
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Speaker 1: Hallucinations and Delusions Grand Prix.

395
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Speaker 2: What does that mean?

396
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,439
Speaker 1: Members would tell the most outrageous true stories of their

397
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:52,200
Speaker 1: own delusions and compete. Really, people would describe all the things,

398
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,760
Speaker 1: and as they describe these things, everyone the audience and

399
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,800
Speaker 1: storyteller alike would laugh at this. So it's not like

400
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,920
Speaker 1: they're not being made fun of. There being like you

401
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,040
Speaker 1: wouldn't believe what I thought was happening last week, you know, right,

402
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 1: And then the audience votes for the best story. But

403
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:10,960
Speaker 1: because everything has to be the most wholesome version of

404
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,040
Speaker 1: everything that's ever happened in the history of the world,

405
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:18,520
Speaker 1: best is not defined by the funniest or the like wildest.

406
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,399
Speaker 1: It's defined by the one that involved the most people,

407
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,960
Speaker 1: Not like the delusion that became a communal delusion, but

408
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,160
Speaker 1: that was like handled by the most people. That really

409
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:33,080
Speaker 1: showed that everyone came together to help the person deal

410
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 1: with it.

411
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,120
Speaker 2: Oh. Interesting, So the person who needed the most help

412
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,680
Speaker 2: essentially like the most like like resources to bring them back.

413
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:45,080
Speaker 1: Or like got the most help, you know. Like, Okay, Well,

414
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,679
Speaker 1: the example the only example I've found so far, it's

415
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 1: in the documentary in the book, and I haven't found

416
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 1: another example in any of the articles because all the

417
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 1: articles that I've found mostly referenced the documentary in the book,

418
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,960
Speaker 1: with other exceptions with some original research. But around the

419
00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,720
Speaker 1: Grand Prix, I didn't learn that much more. Right, There

420
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 1: was a man who was convinced that he saw a

421
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,239
Speaker 1: UFO and he wanted to leave on it, and so

422
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:09,480
Speaker 1: his fellow members right were like, yeah, yeah, no, there's

423
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 1: totally a UFO, but you actually need a UFO driver's

424
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 1: license or they're not going to let you on, so

425
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 1: you should get the driver's Like, we'll take you to

426
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:26,359
Speaker 1: the Rokawa Space Agency where you can get your driver's license.

427
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,120
Speaker 1: And they took him to the psychiatrist, the friendly one.

428
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 2: Okay, I was gonna say, did they take them to

429
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 2: the hospital.

430
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they took them to the hospital.

431
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, okay, okay.

432
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,439
Speaker 1: But like a friendly hospital, you know, not just.

433
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 2: Like yeah I knew what was going on, which is

434
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:47,680
Speaker 2: an amazing connection to have a supportive, actual hospital with professionals.

435
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,399
Speaker 2: That's got to be a key proponent to that as well.

436
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's something very there's something very like the balancing

437
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 1: of opposites to create a whole new interesting thing happening

438
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 1: where it's like, say, chiatric hospitals are part of Bethel, right,

439
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 1: and so is this like kind of mad pride vibe

440
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,399
Speaker 1: where they're like hell yeah, Like people who are like

441
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,200
Speaker 1: hearing stuff will wear like a pin that day being

442
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 1: like I'm hearing stuff today, you know, to like signal

443
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 1: to everyone like right, and they like they're like all

444
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,159
Speaker 1: into honoring mister and missus voices what they'll call the

445
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:25,680
Speaker 1: voices sometimes, right, you know. But also still the hospital's

446
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: part of it.

447
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they understand the seriousness and that medication

448
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,439
Speaker 2: is necessary and that all of these things are a

449
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 2: regular part of treatment. I think that's a constant conversation

450
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 2: because also they're helping to destigmatize and they're in a

451
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 2: comfortable zone that they can be and not have to

452
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 2: hide things which makes things worse, or not feel like

453
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,639
Speaker 2: they have to hide things, which can make symptoms way worse.

454
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 2: So that's an amazing concept. Yeah, yeah, no, I I

455
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 2: think it's so cool. Yeah for sure. Also having a

456
00:23:58,840 --> 00:23:59,679
Speaker 2: festival around it.

457
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then just because they keep doing everything that

458
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 1: I randomly think is cool. So Bethelhiuse itself doesn't spread, right,

459
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 1: there's not a Bethel house in different towns now, but

460
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 1: its ideas are spreading even if they aren't direct clones.

461
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: That there's no direct clones that I'm aware of. Their

462
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,479
Speaker 1: ideas have this major impact. I think most listeners know well,

463
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 1: especially now because I mentioned it a moment ago last episode.

464
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: I have a particular interest in disaster preparedness and seeing

465
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 1: that space taken back from like weird right wingers who

466
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 1: want to build bunkers full of rice and beans. And

467
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 1: I heard you on your very own podcasts say that

468
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 1: you're starting to get into this too.

469
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 2: I'm starting to really look at things and then look

470
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 2: at things differently and start researching. So I'm here for

471
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 2: all the suggestions.

472
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, the world is a change in place, and it

473
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 1: surely is. We should be ready. You'll probably be able

474
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:54,679
Speaker 1: to guess. You know who literally taught all of Japan

475
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 1: how to do disaster preparedness, especially for disabled people. I'm

476
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: fraid to guess is fucking Bethel House? Was it? Yeah?

477
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,880
Speaker 2: They I was seeing something sinister. I'm not gonna lie.

478
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 1: Wow okay, oh yeah yeah no no see but now

479
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: you're on cool people, THEYD cool stuff.

480
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,400
Speaker 2: No, it's positive again, this is my thing, okay yeah

481
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 2: yeah yeah.

482
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 1: And like I don't think that like every they didn't

483
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,439
Speaker 1: like design the curriculum for the entire country, except they

484
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 1: kind of did around disability.

485
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,480
Speaker 2: And preparedness, which is amazing.

486
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, Urukawa gets hit by earthquakes a lot, and Bethel

487
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 1: House works hard to make sure that their members are ready,

488
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: and they work with the rest of the community too,

489
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 1: in cooperation with the town's administration. They work with Mutual

490
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 1: Aid distribution after disaster, and all of their locations, all

491
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: of the group homes, all of the offices, all the

492
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: workplaces have evacuation manuals and they do trainings and drills,

493
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 1: making certain to include how to evacuate people who use

494
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 1: wheelchairs or have other like physical disabilities because for the

495
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: specific thing that they're generally doing right in this particular

496
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,199
Speaker 1: case is preparing to get to high ground, which is

497
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: something that's particularly hard for people with mobility issues, and

498
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 1: that's what they focus on. Every location has disaster supplies

499
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 1: for crisis and then after they do these drills, they

500
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,439
Speaker 1: get together and they analyze how well they did and

501
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: what needs improvement. Members with physical disabilities reported feeling like, Oh,

502
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: I won't be forgotten and abandoned in an emergency, and

503
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 1: I was able to reach higher ground in time. And

504
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:34,159
Speaker 1: it was this sea change moment, right because a lot

505
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: of people with mobility issues have also told me this.

506
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 1: They're like, Oh, I'm just expecting to be abandoned. I

507
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: don't wanna get in anyone's way or whatever. And they're like, no,

508
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,120
Speaker 1: we all got to safety because we tracked who had

509
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: what kind of mobility needs, and we took them into

510
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: account and we accommodated them and we did it right.

511
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 1: And so the Japanese National Rehabilitation Center for Persons with

512
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: Disabilities at their model and adopted the nationwide.

513
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 2: That's amazing. Yeah, I think we need to look at

514
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 2: their model. I mean that's the little thing that's popped

515
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 2: up recently, obviously with all the crisis that have happened

516
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 2: around our country alone with the wildfires. I know, that's

517
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 2: a huge conversation and the disability community about the fact

518
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 2: that people have been left behind and so many people

519
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 2: have been forgotten, and it's because of the discrimination and

520
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 2: the lack of awareness in including this disabled people in

521
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 2: this conversation and preparing. I mean, to be fair, they

522
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 2: still didn't prepare for anyone. Let's just be real honest,

523
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,479
Speaker 2: like totally. Yeah, it is bad all around, but the

524
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 2: lack of awareness and the fact that people they're invisible

525
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 2: havel to time. People with disabilities are invisible most of

526
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 2: the time, especially when it comes to crisis moments. That's

527
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:56,959
Speaker 2: amazing and that is lovely to hear. That is amazing inspiring,

528
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 2: and that we need to learn what they did and

529
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 2: we need this manual.

530
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, desperately. Yeah, I am curious because I think that

531
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: it gets into specifics of like I read, I read

532
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 1: a transcript that it's going to be in the sources

533
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 1: for people want to look. I read it like a

534
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: I think it was a transcript of a talk given

535
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 1: by someone outside from Bethel speaking outside of Japan about

536
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: their disaster preparedness, and like you know, I think it

537
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: has to do with things like keeping track of each

538
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 1: other and knowing who has what needs and then making

539
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 1: sure that your plan includes those things. And yeah, making

540
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: sure that you have a plan at all, you know,

541
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: is like, right, the biggest step. And so when there's

542
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: no plan, people who are very able, you know, like

543
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: twenty five and workout all the time and have no

544
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: other problems, they are going to be do better than

545
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: everyone else, right, right, But if we, if we start

546
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: doing some preparedness around it, we can do so much better.

547
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 2: Right. One of the things that they, I'm sure is

548
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 2: key is that recognizing everyone and allowing everyone have a

549
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 2: voice those meetings that it puts faces on these individuals

550
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 2: and you remember who they are personally, and that makes

551
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 2: a whole different conversation in what you're trying to do

552
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 2: and who and who you need to include in these conversations,

553
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 2: you know, And I think that's an amazing feed that

554
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 2: As an introvert myself, hearing about these meetings made me

555
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 2: tired totally just scaring about it. I was like, oh God,

556
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 2: another one and another one, Like I'm glad, but no,

557
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be the one that's like just feed me.

558
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 2: I don't want to talk to you. If I'm having

559
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 2: a day that's full of visions, I got enough people

560
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 2: to talk to. We don't I just need you to

561
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 2: give me food. But that type of togetherness, that type

562
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 2: of accountability, that allowing them to work there through their

563
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 2: own situations brings a lot to the autonomy, as well

564
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 2: as being visible and given voices. But I think that

565
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 2: says a lot to that, which again there are ten steps,

566
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 2: one hundred steps, a thousand steps ahead of so many

567
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 2: other mental health treatment centers. So that's often again medication

568
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 2: only and or don't know how to allow autonomy for

569
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 2: people with disabilities totally.

570
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: And like, you know, it's funny because when I was

571
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: reading about like oh everyone was locked up in their

572
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: home back in the day, and I'm like, wow, that

573
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: sounds terrible. And then I'm like, I mean there's a

574
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: like people with disabilities sort of deal with that anyway,

575
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: like like all kinds of disabilities like still and like today,

576
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: you know, people with mobility issues often don't. I mean

577
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: many people do. I'm not trying to make huge generalizations,

578
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: but there's like more of a struggle because the society

579
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: at large doesn't accommodate people with me. You know, mobility

580
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: needs and so like people are left out right, and

581
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: so it's like a group of people who all experience

582
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: that or some version of something right, you know, people

583
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: who deal with psychiatric issues or whatever are able to

584
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: then be like, well, of course we don't leave anyone behind,

585
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: even the people I can't stand. I yell at them

586
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: all the time that probably should, but they do, you know,

587
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: But of course we're gonna help get the wheelchair up

588
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: the hill, you know, or whatever.

589
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 2: But we can work through it. At the Friday meeting

590
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 2: when I tell them it wasn't you, it was the

591
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 2: pac Man, Yeah, totally. Which again, like I said, I

592
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 2: envisioned a blue Why was it a blue pac Man

593
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 2: that I envisioned when you said pac Men to me,

594
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 2: I don't know.

595
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a yellow pac Man and the things.

596
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 2: That I I know it's a yellow pac Man is yellow,

597
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 2: but in my head it was blue. Yeah, speaks to

598
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 2: my own conversations in my head. But I think it's

599
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 2: also an amazing like when we talk about other ring

600
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 2: people and having them being so unique and then making

601
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 2: it making them ostracized for that. But in this portion

602
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 2: and there's in this community, they love that and they

603
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 2: celebrate that, and then they celebrate that in a way

604
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 2: that all gives them a willingness to share a yeah,

605
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 2: and then a willingness to sit in it. Yeah, and

606
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 2: it allows them to sit in it. And I think

607
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 2: that's one of the biggest problems we have. Like you

608
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 2: continue to talk about how it's not a cure, we

609
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 2: know a lot of we have now finally come to

610
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 2: the point of understanding this is not a cure thing.

611
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 2: This is a treatment thing. And but that treatment does

612
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 2: not mean you have to make suppress everything and for

613
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 2: you to be the status quo. That's not what it

614
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 2: should be, because that's too much, that's too overwhelming, that's

615
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 2: too hard for a person who does who may not

616
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 2: have these diagnoses, who you would consider being on the

617
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 2: more on the.

618
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: More neurotypical side of things.

619
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. I think a moment with that. But

620
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 2: this conversation of allowing them to be, which gives them

621
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 2: a lot more freedom to destigmatize again these types of diagnosis,

622
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 2: which is part of the problem. Yeah, rant done.

623
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: No, No, I just I was thinking about because I

624
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: just get so excited about it. But you know what,

625
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: I also get excited about coming up with cynical ways

626
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: to transition to ads.

627
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 2: Oh that okay, I'll give you that. That's not you're

628
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 2: just going to say ads. I'm like, don't lie to me.

629
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: No, no, I'm done. I used my one liar earlier

630
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: and I claim it. Advertisers are good or whatever, but

631
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 1: some of them might be. I love when we have

632
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 1: the like ads that are like gopher walks in the forest.

633
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: You know what, I'm going to go free one go

634
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: for walks in the forest, Bring people you care about,

635
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: don't get lost, bring supplies, bring supplies, and then whatever

636
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: else is being advertised, and we're back. So I've been

637
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: holding out this whole time on self study.

638
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm still waiting.

639
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: Well, now it's time.

640
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 2: Okay, tell me about it.

641
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: There's the thing that they are doing that seems to

642
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: have the widest impact. Now, again, this is not creating

643
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: direct clones, but people looking at parts of their model

644
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: and being very inspired. And there's a word that comes

645
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 1: out of Bethelhouse from the early two thousands, tojisha canq

646
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: you Tojisha is an older part of that. It's the

647
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 1: older word out of that, and it's a word for

648
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: people who are marginalized in Japanese society. It's sort of

649
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: self identifier that's hard to translate directly, kind of what

650
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,439
Speaker 1: you're saying earlier about people who are othered. You know,

651
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: this is a word for people who are othered, and

652
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 1: it's a self identification word for it. It comes out

653
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 1: of court proceedings as a legal term for someone who

654
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 1: is dealing with discrimination. In the nineteen seventies, disability activism

655
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 1: in Japan was picking up steam. People with physical disabilities

656
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: were able to say like, hey, we need accommodation. A

657
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,919
Speaker 1: related movement of people with mental health issues started saying

658
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 1: us too, but had a harder time clarifying exactly what

659
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: was needed in terms of accommodation. And during this time, folks,

660
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 1: including sexual minorities started identifying as toojisha, And so it's

661
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 1: kind of a cool word that includes like all of

662
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: these different people who are struggling, even if it's like

663
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: entirely different. It's not just ability or disability. It's like

664
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,760
Speaker 1: all these different groups of people. There's actually a genre

665
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: called tojisha manga right now, which is comics about mental

666
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: health issues. But thanks to Bethel House in the early

667
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 1: two thousands, there's a phrase or word or whatever it's

668
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: a typhonate it. I don't know I accounts as a word

669
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:09,760
Speaker 1: or not. I don't know enough my own English grammar

670
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,879
Speaker 1: to tell you tojisha kenk you. And this gets translated

671
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 1: to the science of the self or self supported research. Basically,

672
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: a schizophrenic member of Bethel set his own house on

673
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 1: fire in the early two thousands and then kept asking

674
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: himself and the therapists and stuff like why do I

675
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 1: keep doing shit like that? I don't really want to

676
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 1: set my house on fire, you know, And the social

677
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: worker responded that maybe he should begin to study himself seriously,

678
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 1: like start a serious study of the self, and the

679
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: idea spread around the Bethel community. As aon magazine put it, quote,

680
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: instead of being passive patients who felt they needed to

681
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 1: keep their heads down and be ashamed for acting differently,

682
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 1: they could now become active researchers of their own ailments.

683
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: So jisha kenk allowed these people to deny labels such

684
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: as victim, patient, or minority and reclaim their agency. And

685
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 1: this is similar in some respects, but goes beyond when

686
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: I learned in cognitive behavioral therapy, which if I'm do

687
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 1: you every want to hear me shout out a thing

688
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: that did me a lot of good in my life.

689
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 1: It was cognitive behavioral therapy. It doesn't work for everybody.

690
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 1: That's a kind of whole thing about it, but sure

691
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 1: helped me with anxiety. And a study of the self

692
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:33,919
Speaker 1: sort of is a weird part of that, and it's

693
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,879
Speaker 1: based a little bit on that, but it doesn't end

694
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 1: at the self. These self studies are then shared in

695
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: a community to keep quoting aon about it quote. At

696
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 1: Bethel House, members found it liberating that they could define

697
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: themselves as producers of a new form of knowledge, just

698
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 1: like the doctors and scientists who diagnosed and studied them

699
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 1: in hospital. Wards. The experiential knowledge of Bethel members now

700
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: forms the basis of an open and shared public domain

701
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 1: of collective knowledge about mental health, one distributed through books,

702
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 1: newspaper articles, documentaries, and social media. And so it's a

703
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 1: sort of citizen science around mental health. By sharing their

704
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 1: experiences and findings, they're able to then look around the

705
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: room and be like, how generalizable is this thing that

706
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 1: I'm experiencing? And I feel this all the time. With writing,

707
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 1: I will talk about some experience or feeling I've had

708
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 1: that feels like real dang unique to me, right, And

709
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, no one's going to resonate with this

710
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 1: weird shit, and then find out that people do.

711
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 2: Mm hm.

712
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 1: So Jisha kenk you started spreading. And this is when

713
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: more of the tourists started coming to Bethelhouse because they

714
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 1: were like, this idea has meant so much to us.

715
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: These self studying people started giving talks around the country

716
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: and the world about what they'd learned, and this is

717
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 1: also what led to the hallucination and delusion Grand Prix mm.

718
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 1: And it's no longer a Bethel House thing or just

719
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: a Bethel House thing. In twenty fifteen, it started up

720
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: at the Research Center for Advanced Science and Technology at

721
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 1: the University of Tokyo, who have further sort of systematized it,

722
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 1: developing ways to run the knowledge produced by this self

723
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: study through tests basically and kind of create this whole

724
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 1: alternative parallel science structure, but not one that's just like

725
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 1: based on vibes and feelings, like it's like, actually, it's

726
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,720
Speaker 1: like a rigorous study of the self and then applying

727
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 1: it to be like it's the like who else feels

728
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 1: the way that I do? But in a like But

729
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: then you take notes then you like do studies on it,

730
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 1: you know, And it started largely by this schizophrenic group,

731
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 1: but it is being used by people with autism, people

732
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: with addiction, kids with learning disabilities, people with physical disabilities,

733
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 1: people with mental disabilities, all kinds of people. And then

734
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 1: because it's the study of outsiders, right, they've even worked

735
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 1: with people who are outsiders for being incredibly lonely in

736
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: competitive fields, Like this has been used by an Olympic

737
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 1: athlete and an astronaut, you know, like because you're you're

738
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: isolated if you have those jobs, right, Yeah, so like

739
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: the idea that the isolation is the thing. So then

740
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: you have people who are isolated by even being at

741
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: the top. Right, I got really excited about this. How

742
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 1: did this compare to what you're expecting out of Yeah, go.

743
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 2: Ahead, I'm wondering, like because it does like in a

744
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,839
Speaker 2: way of like being a social worker myself and being

745
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 2: in that world. When I think about we would always

746
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 2: laugh about the fact that all social workers diagnose themselves, Yeah,

747
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 2: in such a harsh manner. And then like every time

748
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,479
Speaker 2: they find out a new diagnosis or a new type

749
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 2: of symptom, like yeah, that could be me. Oh god,

750
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 2: I am like how often we will do that for

751
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 2: ourselves and then have to like regroup and be like wait, wait, wait, yeah,

752
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 2: but does this mean this? So like it makes me

753
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,800
Speaker 2: kind of laugh in that level of like it's really

754
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 2: especially for people who are on that level of studying

755
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 2: this helping in these industries or fields and then coming

756
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 2: and just seeing that that you're just diagnosing or you're

757
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 2: just analyzing every damn person and yourself and you're analyzing

758
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 2: yourself in that situation. For me, I analyze so much

759
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 2: of like, oh my god, I think I said this

760
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 2: wrong and this word is this this like so in

761
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 2: my head. So in my head it is like have

762
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 2: I always been doing this? And I just don't come

763
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 2: with a solution like right for me, I need to

764
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 2: go to this place, I think.

765
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 1: But then if you're doing self study in a like

766
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 1: rigorous way, you would know the answer of have I

767
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 1: done this before?

768
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:54,919
Speaker 2: Right?

769
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: You would be able to say, like, you know, I

770
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 1: think about like I use cognitive behavioral therapy to lessen

771
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 1: anxiety attacks that I was having that were ruining my life. Yeah,

772
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 1: And one of the ways that I would do that

773
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: is I would literally track each ebb and flow of

774
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: panic as it was happening, and so I knew going

775
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: into a panic attack that I could be like, well,

776
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: if it starts at about an eight on a scale

777
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,720
Speaker 1: of one to ten, I'm in for about a thirty

778
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 1: minute ride, right, you know, or actually at a NATO

779
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 1: was probably starting out about two hour ride.

780
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 2: But like, let's go say that's a high number.

781
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: You know, if I come in at like a six,

782
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 1: I'm in for like a thirty minute ride, you know,

783
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:36,879
Speaker 1: And I know it's going to drop down to a four,

784
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:38,320
Speaker 1: and then it's going to go up to a seven,

785
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: and then it's going to go back to a three.

786
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: I like you track it. Yeah, so you could say

787
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: to yourself, like, well, how often do I come home

788
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 1: from social situations completely convinced that everyone hates me? Right?

789
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 1: And then you'd even be able to be like, upon

790
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 1: further study, it turns out that everyone does not hate me,

791
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 1: you know.

792
00:41:57,840 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 2: Just these three people?

793
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, Yeah, like the person I actually offended. Actually,

794
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,399
Speaker 1: the thing that always happens to me is I will

795
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: leave social situations and be like, oh, I really screwed

796
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 1: that up. Everyone hates me, and I'll like call to

797
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,399
Speaker 1: like apologize to people. That's something I said, and they'll

798
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 1: be like, no, I'm not mad about that. I'm kind

799
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 1: of bad about this other thing.

800
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:19,919
Speaker 2: But this other thing that you did that was real bad.

801
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, why do you leave the dishes in the sink?

802
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: Everyone's mad at you? You know, I'm like, ah, you know.

803
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I think it's very interesting. Again, this gives

804
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:31,919
Speaker 2: a lot of control to where it's not you as

805
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 2: the patient, you as the person that needs to be

806
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 2: solved and fixed, as opposed to you recognizing your patterns

807
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 2: and just finding intervention plans or or not even intervention

808
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 2: plans necessarily, but just how you can best maintain that situation. Yeah,

809
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 2: and that's very spot on. I mean, that's the fact

810
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 2: that they did this this early, that early on is

811
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 2: significant obviously, Like that's why it's being studied because it

812
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,080
Speaker 2: is this a thing that's again, but they're all all

813
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 2: of their phrases are so like newer to me, Like

814
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 2: that is so becoming more accepted today, that whole level

815
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 2: of like just care for yourself, you know it just okay,

816
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:12,919
Speaker 2: live in thing that is now, it's not a big deal.

817
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 2: You hear those voices, Honor those voices, you know, as

818
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:19,760
Speaker 2: opposed to suppress them. Deny them and pretend like everything's okay,

819
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 2: which would have been like fifteen twenty years ago to

820
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 2: see that that's they were obviously leagues ahead, where it

821
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:34,839
Speaker 2: does show a level of humanity and understanding disability, which

822
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,399
Speaker 2: is again a big portion of what's missing in all

823
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 2: kinds of treatment.

824
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 1: No totally, and like by being their own experts, and

825
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 1: you're talking about how like all social workers are self diagnosing,

826
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 1: it's kind of like, like all my therapist friends are

827
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 1: the people who are like the least hinged in their

828
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 1: sheer therapist friends who are listening to this currently, I

829
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: love you, You're great. The people who are like therapists

830
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 1: neurospicy in their own lives, you know, and like often

831
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 1: need to hear their own advice. You know. Yep, But

832
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 1: it kind of like makes sense, right, It like makes

833
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 1: sense that people who are like care about this stuff

834
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: might have some relationship to it, whether they're like fully

835
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 1: in it or not. And then also the fact that

836
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 1: because they do go beyond just like these are my

837
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 1: own patterns, they then say, well, now we're creating a

838
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 1: body of work together. So I don't just say, oh,

839
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 1: I know what my panic attacks are, Like I can

840
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: go and be like why I can't right now, but

841
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 1: like you could theoretically be like, what are other people's

842
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 1: panic attacks? Like right, you know we have this whole

843
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 1: body of work with charts and graphs of like, right,

844
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 1: you know what can cause this or whatever?

845
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 2: Anyway, No, yeah, it is. It lays a lot of groundwork,

846
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 2: and especially when you again talk about interventions and treatments.

847
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 2: Nothing is one size fit all, so would this type

848
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:57,839
Speaker 2: of conversation with everybody doing the self actualization type of thing.

849
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 2: But it does help he give unique experiences and unique

850
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:06,919
Speaker 2: pinpoints and give different options of treatment. When you see

851
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 2: these types of diverse reactions and conversations, because again, like

852
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 2: the original pac Man dude, I've already forgotten his name, apologies,

853
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,800
Speaker 2: Blue pac Man. In my head, it's okay Kiyoshi Kyoshi,

854
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 2: like his experience is very different, and he was able

855
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 2: to do one way to thrive, not completely to the

856
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,359
Speaker 2: point that he wanted to, I'm sure to a certain

857
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 2: degree about having relationships and doing all of that, but

858
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:33,400
Speaker 2: he was able to thrive and fill find a community

859
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 2: like that type of level and being able to do

860
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 2: that individually and then having that collection as data for

861
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 2: others who are in similar situations. That is phenomenal and

862
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:46,720
Speaker 2: it takes a lot of research and money in time.

863
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it did it with that much money. But yeah,

864
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: they but they had to have resources. They had to

865
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:56,360
Speaker 1: build their whole own infrastructure to support it for sure.

866
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 1: And it really it gets at the fact that like

867
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 1: sometimes a group of people who just get together to

868
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 1: be like, well, I don't think society is very well

869
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,799
Speaker 1: set up for us. We should do something about it. Yeah,

870
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 1: can have impacts that are so huge. Again, even Bethel

871
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 1: House hasn't replicated. Yeah, but some of the things that

872
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 1: they hundred of them got together and figured out starting

873
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: with the four of them or whatever, you know, like

874
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: have potentially changed the way that science can work, you know,

875
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 1: like have this like huge impact. And it it's the

876
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 1: kind of thing that before I started this podcast, like

877
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 1: you know, there's that Margaret Meade quote. It's like, oh,

878
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 1: never be convinced that the small group of people can't

879
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: change the world. It's the only thing that ever has

880
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 1: or whatever, right, And that's always like the quote is

881
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: like overplayed, you know, because it's like usually when ten

882
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: people get together to completely change the world, unless they're billionaires,

883
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 1: they which cause they're going to make it worse. Right,

884
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:56,800
Speaker 1: You're not going to change the whole world if you

885
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 1: set out to change the whole world, but when you

886
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 1: set out to be like this local thing that we

887
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,879
Speaker 1: want to accomplish, and then accomplish it in a way

888
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 1: where we can talk to people about how we accomplished

889
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 1: it to see if other people can do other things.

890
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, well, okay, to go back to my script.

891
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 1: So this framework, the citizen science kind of thing that

892
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 1: they're doing, it's not one hundred percent unique. It is comparable,

893
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: for example, to the citizen science advocated for by act Up,

894
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 1: who we did an episode on, which is that Radical

895
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 1: AIDS group. People living with or dying from AIDS became

896
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,800
Speaker 1: some of the world's most respected and impactful experts on

897
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 1: their own ailments because no one else was doing it right,

898
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 1: and even if they had to break a lot of

899
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,879
Speaker 1: laws in order to prove that they knew something about

900
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 1: their own problems. And I want to give Kiyoshi, the

901
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 1: founding member we were just talking about, he gets the

902
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 1: final word in the documentary Bethel, and I think it's

903
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 1: worth closing out with here too. He said, quote, I

904
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 1: want viewers to know that people with psychiatric disabilities aren't abnormal.

905
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,799
Speaker 1: If you have psychiatric disabilities or are ill right now,

906
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,800
Speaker 1: please live life with all your energy. Living life is important.

907
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: Life is something that God has given us. And even

908
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 1: if you are ill right now, please live life with

909
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:24,920
Speaker 1: all your energy. Just because you are ill is no

910
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 1: reason to close your soul to the outside world. People

911
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,760
Speaker 1: with psychiatric disabilities or people with physical disabilities, for people

912
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 1: who are about to begin life, or people who are

913
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 1: at the end of their life, I think the most

914
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:41,359
Speaker 1: important thing is to live now. It is really like that.

915
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 1: I really like even the whether you're starting or ending

916
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 1: your life. Like one of the things that I didn't

917
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:49,800
Speaker 1: end up writing into the script, one of their little sayings,

918
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 1: was something like I don't mean to be diminutive with

919
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:54,839
Speaker 1: their little sayings, but you know, they have a bunch

920
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 1: of little pithy sayings, right, And one of them is

921
00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:00,799
Speaker 1: like celebrate a life and decline or something like that.

922
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:03,320
Speaker 1: And at first I didn't understand it, but it was

923
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 1: explained later more that it's like you need to accept

924
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 1: that sometimes most of the time, most of your life,

925
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:15,880
Speaker 1: you're past your peak, right, You're past your like physical

926
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:21,720
Speaker 1: and cognitive, you know, whatever or like things get worse

927
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:26,320
Speaker 1: and it's okay, Like that is a natural cycle of life,

928
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 1: is that you like things get harder and eventually they're

929
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 1: over right, but like that's all right, and you can

930
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 1: do amazing stuff and like live your best life wherever

931
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:41,720
Speaker 1: you're at on that scale anyway.

932
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 2: No, I mean that absolutely makes sense. I think about

933
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 2: a creator, a disabled creator who talks about the fact

934
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:52,280
Speaker 2: that being able bodied it's actually very temporary.

935
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:54,280
Speaker 1: Oh yes, whether it's age or.

936
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 2: Like you know, age or or accidents or whatever. Yeah,

937
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 2: you will be a part of that.

938
00:49:59,239 --> 00:49:59,439
Speaker 1: Yeah.

939
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:04,839
Speaker 2: Community. Now you just have to acknowledge that everyone has

940
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 2: the right whenever you know, whoever they may be the

941
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 2: disabilities and or whether it's invisible or not, that to

942
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:14,400
Speaker 2: be treated as human kindness and like to be prepared

943
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 2: that you still have to live life like this is.

944
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 2: It shouldn't have to be like the tragic inspiring tales

945
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 2: of those people who suddenly get into an accident can't

946
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 2: walk in so they choose to die like that. That's

947
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 2: not the story that needs to be celebrated necessarily, Like

948
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 2: that's kind of like, oh, yeah, why are we talking

949
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:36,400
Speaker 2: like that? But to live to age, to get to

950
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:38,319
Speaker 2: that point as a privilege. The fact that you have

951
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 2: lived that long where you've gotten to this point and

952
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 2: being able to celebrate that is is a part of

953
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 2: that journey. I say this as my back is killing me.

954
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 1: I think anyone who's like done a little bit of

955
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:55,359
Speaker 1: aging is like on some level a where like when

956
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 1: you hear that quote, yeah, the idea that you know,

957
00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:01,800
Speaker 1: being able bodied is temporary, Like right, that's like, oh yeah, no,

958
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,359
Speaker 1: I I can see how that's true, and it makes

959
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 1: it you know.

960
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 2: Like whether it's your knee, yeah, my knees are popping.

961
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:13,000
Speaker 2: But yeah, this is an amazing story and everything from

962
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 2: like the fact that again they've created their own community,

963
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 2: which again we see throughout history, if something's not there already,

964
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 2: people are like, well I'll create that, I'll do it.

965
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 2: And those people are phenomenal because without even trying, they've

966
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 2: done something incredible that people look at and be like

967
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:32,840
Speaker 2: oh wow, okay and learn from and then they go

968
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 2: into being able to provide a community that has a

969
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 2: lot of life lessons. I need those sayings on a

970
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:44,360
Speaker 2: poster with Kittie on it, right, those inspirational ones.

971
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 1: Only it would be like it's okay if you fall

972
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 1: off the branch. It wouldn't say hang in there and

973
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:50,759
Speaker 1: be like right, it'd be like hold on, why you can?

974
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 1: I guess good luck, enjoy that moment, look at the view. Yeah,

975
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 1: it happens to us.

976
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:57,479
Speaker 2: All happens to us. All.

977
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I guess at that. The equivalent of that

978
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:03,520
Speaker 1: is the meme where it's a bunch of raccoons and

979
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:07,919
Speaker 1: it says, uh, death is coming, eat trash, be free free.

980
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 2: That's metal sounding.

981
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, that might be more of a meme in my

982
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:15,480
Speaker 1: community than the broader community.

983
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 2: I like it. I love raccoons.

984
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 1: I need that. Yeah. Well, thanks for listening to me

985
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 1: talking about Batthelhouse. And if people want to hear you

986
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 1: talk about stuff, where can they do it?

987
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 2: You could come listen on stuff mom never told you where.

988
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:30,839
Speaker 2: We talk about a lot of different things. We talk

989
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,319
Speaker 2: about women in the apocalypse like you were talking about,

990
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 2: We talk about women in religion. We actually talked about

991
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:39,879
Speaker 2: why soup is feminine? Apparently. Oh really did you know that?

992
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 1: I love soup? I do do.

993
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:42,839
Speaker 2: I've made four different ones this week.

994
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:43,879
Speaker 1: Amazing good.

995
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 2: It's soup weather, y'all, it really is. So. Yeah, you

996
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:50,399
Speaker 2: can hear different conversations about that you can hear old

997
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 2: conversations from old hosts talking about like why uh pockets

998
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:57,239
Speaker 2: were not given to women and how it is with

999
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 2: such anistic Yeah, you know, all the good things. We

1000
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 2: have a book that's been out for two years, but

1001
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 2: if you want to go read it, it has a lot

1002
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,799
Speaker 2: of other information as well. And yeah, you can find

1003
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 2: me on Blue Sky McVeigh sam or on Instagram.

1004
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 1: I think that's it awesome if you want to hear

1005
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 1: what I write, I guess read what I write would

1006
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:20,840
Speaker 1: be the proper verb to use. I have a substack

1007
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,680
Speaker 1: It's Marter Kildro dot substack dot com and every week

1008
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 1: I post an essay about stuff and holding on to

1009
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 1: hope or whatever, letting yourself fall off the branch I

1010
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 1: don't know, and most of the big important essays on

1011
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 1: that are free. And then every other week I do

1012
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 1: a more personal essay that's just for paid subscribers, but

1013
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,759
Speaker 1: don't if I think it's like super socially useful, I

1014
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 1: will make it free so you can check that out.

1015
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 1: You can go look up The Immortal Choir Holds every

1016
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 1: Voice on Kickstarter. It'll be launched in March of twenty

1017
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:54,760
Speaker 1: twenty five. If you're listening to this far in the future,

1018
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 1: just go buy the book somewhere or scavenge one from

1019
00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:59,839
Speaker 1: what's left of a library in the apocalypse. I don't

1020
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 1: know if you're listening to like twenty twenty seven, that's

1021
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 1: going to be your only option. But you know, twenty

1022
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 1: twenty five, twenty twenty six, you probably still have a

1023
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 1: regular commerce available to you. And yeah, we kick starting that.

1024
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:13,279
Speaker 1: It's the third book in the Daniel Kaine series. And

1025
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 1: you can follow me on all the various social media's,

1026
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,279
Speaker 1: except that's not true, not all of them, Instagram and

1027
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 1: Blue Sky. I guess I'm technically still on X but

1028
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 1: I don't. I hate it, so all right bye everyone.

1029
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 2: Bye.

1030
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:34,799
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1031
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media.

1032
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 2: For more podcasts on cool Zone Media, visit our website

1033
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:42,759
Speaker 2: Foolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1034
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.