1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: today's best minds. 4 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 2: Happy Independence Day. We're on vacation with that doesn't mean 5 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 2: we don't have a great show for you today. Doctor 6 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 2: Marcus Anthony Hunt Stopspy to talk to us about the Tulsa, 7 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:20,479 Speaker 2: Oklahoma massacre and the quest honor it. But first we 8 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 2: have actor Griffin Dunn on his new book The Friday 9 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 2: Afternoon Club, a family Memoir. 10 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 3: Welcome to Fast Politics, Griffin Don. 11 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 4: Thank you for having me. Molly. 12 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: I really wanted to talk to you about this book 13 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: because it's not really politics, and Jesse. 14 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 3: Is always like it's Fast Politics, Molly. 15 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: But I felt like we should talk about it because 16 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: your story is in the intersection of all of these 17 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 1: different important political moments. It can you talk to us 18 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 1: about just growing up in LA and a little bit 19 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: about what that looked. 20 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 4: Like bagging up than just La and the book does 21 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 4: intersect with many moments and really in history. In order 22 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 4: to get to my childhood and growing up in Los 23 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 4: Angeles in my teen years, I had to as this 24 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 4: was always subtitle in my mind, a family memoir, I 25 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 4: had to go all the way back to Pancho Villa 26 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 4: in the Mexican Revolution that you know, drove my mother's 27 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 4: family to No Gallas, the border town in Mexico and Arizona, 28 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 4: and the Irish famine. And I was always conscious as 29 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 4: I was approaching Hollywood, you know, I would be passing 30 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 4: you know, World War two, how that intersected and my 31 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 4: mother's side of the family and my father's side of 32 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 4: the family, my father in particular, who was in fact 33 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:42,839 Speaker 4: a war hero and fought in Battle of the Bulge. 34 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 4: So when I was growing up first in New York, 35 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 4: where my father was in live television and that occupation 36 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 4: brought him to to Hollywood in nineteen sixty where television 37 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 4: was you know, still black and white and about to 38 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 4: maybe go into color. We were in this house that 39 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 4: my probably my mother bought. She was from a family 40 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 4: in Chicago. Her father was a Griffin and there was 41 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 4: a Griffin wheel company and they it was really an empire, 42 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 4: and all the wheels in America, on train on pullman 43 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 4: train cars were with Griffin wheels. So my parents were 44 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 4: very social, my father in particular, and they were married 45 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 4: and gave parties with you know, some of the greatest 46 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 4: movie stars, most elegant, glamorous, David Nivid and you know, 47 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 4: Joseph Cotton, and also great directors of that time. But 48 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 4: they were all you know, this is now in the 49 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 4: early sixties about to approach, you know, up to the 50 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 4: mid sixties, their best films probably were behind them. Dennis Hopper, 51 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 4: who was also a guest in her home, would in 52 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 4: just a few years be making easy writer and and 53 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 4: sort of render these great old stars and directors, you know, 54 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 4: out of touch, very difficult to get work now. Of course, 55 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 4: as a child growing up in this house, surrounded by 56 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 4: all this elegance and extravagance, you know, I didn't know 57 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 4: these people were as much as you know. They were 58 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 4: funnier and charming and made me laugh as a kid, 59 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 4: but I wouldn't know who they were until I looked 60 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 4: at my father's scrap books, and he'd been divorced, and 61 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 4: he luckily kept a record of these amazing years and 62 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 4: in our house and in his life as he traveled, 63 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 4: you know, to Europe with these people and would visit 64 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 4: royal families, and social interaction, particularly with you know, wealthy 65 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 4: and powerful and famous people was at that time his priority. 66 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: So one of the things I think about when I 67 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: think about Dominic was that he had this very interesting 68 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: second act where the murder of your sister ended up 69 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: being the kind of galvanizing force where he became a 70 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: kind of you know, a chronicle of society crime, but also, 71 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: you know, in his own way, a sort of someone 72 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: who was really a person who was trying to change 73 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: how domestic violence and trying to stop that and shine 74 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: a light on it, and also you know, changed the 75 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: way that men were punished for things like that. It 76 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: hasn't really changed, but there was really a quest there, 77 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: I think, a sort of quins oud a quest. So 78 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 1: can you talk about that, because that is such an 79 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: I always am struck by things like that. 80 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, you're exactly right. I mean, in the years 81 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 4: prior to Dominique's murder, my father had gotten sober, he 82 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 4: had really reassessed his life. Everything had been stripped away 83 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 4: from him, money, all these social and powerful contacts he had, 84 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 4: you know, had abandoned him, and he was in exile, 85 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 4: self exile in a little town in Oregon where it 86 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 4: was car broke down, and he tried very much to 87 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 4: be writing. He wanted to write. That was the profession 88 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 4: he envisioned for himself, and so he would write us 89 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 4: these letters, Dominique, Alex and I, these single space letters, 90 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 4: and you could see he was working on his forum, 91 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 4: trying to find his voice. And he came back to 92 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 4: New York, and then Dominie, as you said, was attacked 93 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 4: and it changed at great cost. After the trial of 94 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 4: her killer, in which we were as a family put 95 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 4: through the mill of having to listen to the defense. 96 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 4: A man dragged my sister's name through the mud. It 97 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 4: was a dirty but common strategy, blaming the victim for 98 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 4: their own death. This was a textbook case of which 99 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 4: the jury bought completely and was kept out of watching 100 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 4: the testimony of a previous girlfriend of the killer, who 101 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 4: he had put in the hospital twice and hit her 102 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 4: so hard and just joined at her eye socket and 103 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 4: her jaw. It beat her senseless twice and put her 104 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 4: in the hospital twice. The jury was kept out of 105 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 4: this because it was prejudicial. I guess it's prejudicial to 106 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 4: have a prior history of violence against women. It speaks 107 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 4: I all of your character. So they were kept out. 108 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 4: They were kept out of seeing a tantrum that the 109 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 4: killer had and the Roman had to be dragged to 110 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 4: the ground by the bailiff, and then the killer has 111 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 4: to date served three and a half years for manslaughter. 112 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 4: They didn't even call it murder. So this changed all 113 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 4: of our lives. But this is where my father found 114 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 4: his voice and his cause and his purpose. And so 115 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 4: whenever he wrote about of which he became a reporter, 116 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 4: a very high profile reporter for very high profile cases. 117 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 4: And so when he covered OJ he never lets you 118 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 4: forget about the Browns or Nicole, and he never lets 119 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 4: you forget about Lana Clarkson. When who Phil Specter killed 120 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 4: media called a fourth rate actress's His daughter was an actress. 121 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 4: My mother, who had MS, was in a wheelchair all 122 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 4: the way through. We wheeled her into court every day 123 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 4: in our formation of my brother and I on either 124 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 4: side of her chair and my father pushing. We thought 125 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 4: this trial would kill her. It did just the opposite. 126 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 4: She became an activist as well for victims rights, and 127 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 4: she started a group called Justice for Victims of Homicide 128 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 4: in California, and she made laws Marcy's Law that protects 129 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 4: the right of victims of being notified when the killer 130 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 4: is out on bail, let out of jail, or prison. 131 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 4: You think that would be common practice to notify a family. 132 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 4: You know, she has other jault laws and they're instituted 133 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 4: in twenty three or thirty other states. In California. So 134 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 4: my parents, who I never detected, really any political passion from. 135 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 4: In fact, you know, while I was growing up in 136 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 4: idolizing Kennedy, they voted for Nixon. But you know, this 137 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 4: changed all so they became very political, which does make me, 138 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 4: I think, an app guest for your podcast. 139 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, when people are able to turn terrible tragedies into 140 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: galvanizing moments. 141 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 3: You know, it really is. 142 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: And I remember how Dominic covered the Nicole Brown Simpson 143 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: murder and just it was a real sea change for 144 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: how we talk about victims. 145 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, it still happens though. When he was covering OJ 146 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 4: he was so personally invested for obvious reasons. But what 147 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 4: the Dream Team, I'm putting that in quotes, the tactics 148 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 4: that they were using. I would see him because it 149 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 4: was televised. I would see him in the spectator's office. 150 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 4: He always sat with the Browns. I could see the 151 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 4: toll it was taking on him. I'm in New York 152 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 4: and I can see in television that I think He's 153 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 4: going to have an heart attack just having to go 154 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 4: through this over and over again. He'd done trials like 155 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 4: this before, but this one really took a toll on him. 156 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think that it really is. 157 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: The way that Dominic covered the Nicohole Brown Simpson murder, 158 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: the OJ Simpson trial and a lot of these other 159 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: trials really was a sort of sea change for standing 160 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 1: up for victims and you know the experience of the victims' 161 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: families in ways that we probably hadn't seen before. 162 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 4: Yes, however, I kind of relived our circumstance in nineteen 163 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 4: eighty three when Harvey Weinstein's came was thrown out in 164 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 4: the highest court in New York because in our case 165 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 4: I described to you, you know how the jury was 166 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 4: not allowed to watch the testimony of the killer's previous 167 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 4: victim in domestic violence. The reason that the judge said 168 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 4: he did this when the world came crashing down after 169 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 4: Dad stood up in the court room and called it unjust. 170 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 4: He said that he wasn't on trial for beating up 171 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 4: and putting in the hospital twice the woman that was testifying. Therefore, 172 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 4: the jury should not hear it. When the New York 173 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 4: courts threw out Harvey Weinstein's case. It was for the 174 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 4: exact reason. When other women who testified about their experience 175 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,839 Speaker 4: of abuse with Harvey Weinstein and testified very effectively, the 176 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 4: New York courts ruled that's not what Harvey was being 177 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 4: tried for, so they threw that out and there for 178 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 4: the whole case. So it hasn't really quite changed. Judges 179 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 4: still get to choose whether a history of domestic violence 180 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 4: is relev UNDERDT. Incredibly enough. 181 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, but the idea of the victim's family being injected 182 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: into the coverage is new and important, or was at 183 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 1: the time very new and important. I'm wondering if you 184 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: could talk just for a minute about what the sort 185 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:22,079 Speaker 1: of lessons of this literary family. I mean, we all 186 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: have them, the sort of broader lessons that you learned 187 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: writing this book. 188 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 4: I always thought I would write a book. It was 189 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 4: on a bucket list of mine. I'm from a long 190 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 4: line of storytellers, and I envisioned writing a mostly humorous 191 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,319 Speaker 4: book that would be along the lines of David Sedaris's 192 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,559 Speaker 4: Me Talk Pretty of it being sort of different chapters 193 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 4: that were both funny and touching about my family and 194 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 4: having them intersect over the years, and when I started 195 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,199 Speaker 4: to write chronologically, in order to do that, I kind 196 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 4: of had to wait a few years, not to get 197 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 4: out of the yoke of being from a literary family, 198 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,079 Speaker 4: and what would they think or that I was going 199 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 4: to do a tell all of anything. As time went by, 200 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 4: when I looked at my loved ones and then, you know, 201 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 4: in my family who were no longer with me, their arcs, 202 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 4: the arcs of their character really became clear to me. 203 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 4: When I was writing chronologically, I could see the incredible 204 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,319 Speaker 4: transformation of my father. So I was able to write 205 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 4: about his weaknesses as a young father and a young 206 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 4: husband and see that, you know, the shame that he 207 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 4: was he was burying and you know, was struggling with 208 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 4: alcohol and his closeted life. And I could see the 209 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 4: loneliness of my mother. I knew where they were going 210 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 4: to end up. I knew that they you know, I 211 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 4: used as an epitaph of my father that he once 212 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 4: said to me when I was criticizing him for something, 213 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 4: and he said, what could I say, kiddo, I'm a 214 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 4: work in progress. And I looked at all these characters 215 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 4: and I knew and I thought of them I mean, 216 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 4: as much as I produce, I make movies, I think 217 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:57,959 Speaker 4: they were characters who I loved very much, and I 218 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 4: knew where they were going to end up. I walked away. 219 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 4: You know, when I finished this book, the hard part 220 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 4: was not writing about Dominique and being attacked and on 221 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 4: life support and going through what we went through in 222 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 4: the trial. Because I was in company while I was 223 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 4: writing it. They were all so vivid, right, you know. 224 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:15,439 Speaker 4: The hard part was finishing it. I kind of went 225 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 4: into a state of mourning when I was finishing it, 226 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 4: and quite honestly, now I'm in this next chapter, you know, 227 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 4: promoting and talking about these these people in my family. 228 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,079 Speaker 4: I feel them all over again and it's quite emotional. 229 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 5: You know. 230 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 4: My job is to be sort of in service of 231 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 4: their memory at this point, which was not as clear 232 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:34,199 Speaker 4: a thought when I was writing it. I just wanted 233 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 4: to tell their story. That was my original intent, and 234 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 4: then I just kept on doing it. When I was finished, 235 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 4: I went, wow, look at these people. Wow, and I'm 236 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 4: related to them. 237 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh, Griffin, thank you so much for joining us. 238 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 4: You're very welcome. Thank you, Mollie, good to talk to you. 239 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: Spring is here, and I bet you are trying to 240 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: look fashionable, so why not pick up some fashionable all 241 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: new Fast Politics merchandise. We just opened a news store 242 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: with all new designs just for you. Get t shirts, hoodies, hats, 243 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: and toe bags. To grab some, head to fastpolitics dot com. 244 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 2: Doctor Marcus Anthony Hunt is a UCLA professor and the 245 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 2: author of Radical Reparations. 246 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Fast Politics, doctor Marcus Hunter. 247 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 6: Thank you so much. I appreciate you and the whole 248 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 6: team for having me. 249 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:27,839 Speaker 3: We're delighted to have you. 250 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: And it feels very much like something we should be 251 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: talking about right now, because the Supreme Court, in their 252 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 1: infinite fucked upness as one of their first decisions, and 253 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: I feel like it flew under the radar, but when 254 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: I saw it, I was like, of course, those fuckers, 255 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: So let's talk about the Tulsa massacre and also the 256 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: Supreme Court's just continual talk to me. 257 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think, you know, one of the intense things, 258 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 5: especially around Tulsa. I was fortunate enough to be invited 259 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 5: by doctor Tiffany Krutcher and the Terrence Krutcher Foundation and 260 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 5: Justice from Greenwood just earlier this month for their legacy 261 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 5: festivals celebrating one hundred and three years since the Tulsa 262 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 5: race massacre, and they were really hopeful about the possibilities 263 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 5: of the Oklahoma Supreme Court doing right by the survivors 264 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 5: and the descendants. And so I was in DC when 265 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 5: the decision came down that they won't even get their 266 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 5: day in court, which is wild and it's even wilder 267 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 5: because now there is a mountain or mountains of evidence 268 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 5: that demonstrate that this did actually happen. And I also 269 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 5: think a lot about the fact that when we hear 270 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 5: about descendants, when you meet them, like Mother Randall, who 271 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 5: I had the opportunity to meet while I was there, 272 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 5: she's a descendant, she's one hundred plus now, but it's 273 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 5: because she was a child when this happened. So the 274 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 5: children who witnessed, experienced and survived this never got a 275 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 5: chance to go before authorities and legal authorities and testify 276 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 5: and share that this crime happened to them and their community. 277 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 5: And the fact that they won't even get an opportunity 278 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 5: to present that before a jury of their peers is 279 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 5: really really disheartening and just a reflection of how deeply 280 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 5: important the issue of reparations of reparative justice is. 281 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know that everyone who listens this podcast is 282 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: educated enough to know about the Tulsa massacre, but would 283 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: love it if you would just give us like a 284 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: little bit of background on it, for just the people 285 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: who are not completely read in on it. 286 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 5: The Tulsa race massacre, which, by the way, I think 287 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 5: is still an adequate term to describe what happened. There 288 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 5: was a thriving black community in Greenwood, a neighborhood in 289 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 5: Tulsa that had actually arrived as formally enslaved people who 290 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 5: were enslaved by many of what are called the civilized tribes, 291 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 5: the Native Americans, who were made to participate in a 292 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 5: trail of tears. Folks don't know is that as they 293 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 5: were participating in a trail of tears, many of those 294 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 5: tribes brought along with them enslaved Black Africans. And so 295 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 5: those folks then later become the founders of a community 296 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 5: and a city named Tulsa, but the founders of a 297 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 5: community that blossoms in to what affectionately becomes called Black 298 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 5: Wall Street. And in nineteen twenty one, over two days 299 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 5: May thirtieth and thirty first, one of the most horrific 300 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 5: acts of domestic terrorism occurs whereby there are rapes, there 301 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 5: are bombings, burnings, hangings, shootings, and death of all of 302 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 5: those black residents who were in that community just because 303 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 5: they had become so successful. And so part of what's 304 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 5: happened over the years is one it's lived as a mythology, 305 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 5: only really held together in some ways. Shout out to 306 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 5: the great sociologist Charlie Wilson and a GAP band because 307 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 5: they keep it. 308 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 6: In their name. 309 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 5: Greenwood, Archer and Pine is what GAP stands for for 310 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 5: people who know the Gap Band, and one of the 311 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 5: most famous songs is called You Dropped a Bomb on Me. 312 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 5: They codify it in music as a way to say 313 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 5: and keep the memory alive that this happened to the community. 314 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 5: Charlie Wilson and that band are descendants of the Greenwood 315 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 5: massacre and the Tulsa Race massacre. And so part of 316 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:21,120 Speaker 5: what's happened in recent time is that once Miss Breonna 317 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 5: Taylor and mister Floyd lost their lives, there became renewed 318 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 5: attention to this issue. As the one hundred year anniversary 319 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 5: was approaching, and so there's been a lot of action 320 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 5: around it. But in the last four years it was 321 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 5: getting some forward momentum for the very first time, and 322 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 5: the Oklahoma Supreme Court has decided that there's not enough 323 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 5: of a case from their judgment that it warrants them 324 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 5: having an actual day in court. 325 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just heartbreaking. And there aren't that many survivors 326 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 1: right exactly. 327 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 5: There are only right now three living survivors. And then 328 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 5: when you go to the community, which is really deep, 329 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 5: and I encourage all of the folks who are listening 330 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 5: to us to, you know, take some time and go 331 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 5: visit Tulsa, because most all of the people who survived 332 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 5: it stayed, they didn't leave, and so there was also 333 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 5: like you go into the museum that they have there, 334 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 5: and there's, for example, a letter that a friend who's 335 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 5: living in Detroit writes to a survivor in Tulsa says, 336 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 5: you know, I read in the Chicago Defender about how 337 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 5: this happened down there, and here's forty dollars for a 338 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 5: bus ticket that I'll get you to Detroit. Come on 339 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 5: up here. And he writes back and he says, thank 340 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 5: you so much. I really appreciate that you care enough 341 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 5: about me, But I'm sending the money back to you 342 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,439 Speaker 5: because I'm staying in Tulsa. So that's also just to 343 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,919 Speaker 5: say that people stayed. So most all of the folks 344 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 5: who are native to Tulsa, the black natives of Tulsa, 345 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 5: not only are many of them Creak Indian, but also 346 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 5: they never left, so they're still there. So there's a 347 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 5: community of repair that is still there that has been 348 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 5: waiting for over now one hundred and three years. 349 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: This Supreme Court terrible, is not anything new. But is 350 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 1: there any way to go around them? Is there anything 351 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: that these survivors can do? Is there any other legal recourse? 352 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, one of the recourses that we have, and this 353 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 5: is part of what happens in this country, is that 354 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 5: we no longer have government and there is not necessarily 355 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 5: public education around civic engagement. But we know, as you know, 356 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 5: there are three branches of government. Only one of them 357 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 5: is the judicial. The other one is the legislative, which, 358 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 5: of course, we can think about our elected officials passing, 359 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 5: for example, the Tolsa Race Massacred Descendants Fund. 360 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,400 Speaker 6: That could be an act that is passed in Congress. 361 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 5: Okay. The other thing that we know is that there's 362 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 5: the executive branch where you have the president, the White House, 363 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 5: the Vice president, and their entire staff that can execute 364 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 5: either orders or actions on behalf of this community. And 365 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 5: so one of the things that I've been up to 366 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 5: for the last four or five years, working with Congressoman 367 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 5: Barbara Lee, is trying to encourage the bid To Harris 368 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 5: administration to more publicly use the bully paulpit to bring 369 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 5: more attention and public awareness to these issues, because underneath 370 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 5: the horror and the terror is a very positive story 371 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 5: because these folks, like Mother Randall have kept the faith. 372 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 5: They still believe that America can do right. Can you 373 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 5: imagine you watch your whole community be bombed and terrorized 374 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 5: for two entire days, then many of them were put 375 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:30,360 Speaker 5: in internment camps afterwards, which many folks don't know. And 376 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 5: fast forward after being over one hundred years old, you 377 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 5: still believe in the American justice system, You still believe 378 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 5: in the American legislative system. They still vote, you know 379 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 5: what I mean. And so it's really about getting the 380 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 5: right light shed on this issue because when you find 381 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 5: out most Americans find out about this, and their hearts 382 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,880 Speaker 5: go out to these folks, their hearts break for them. 383 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 6: And the question is why. 384 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 5: Has the Bida Harris administration not shined an appropriate light 385 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 5: or reparative justice across the nation where so many communities 386 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 5: are activating based on the idea of democracy, working and 387 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,400 Speaker 5: trying to protect and defend that democracy. 388 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 6: Why have we not seen the. 389 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 5: President travel down after this announcement, came out and sit 390 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 5: with mother Randall and just comfort her. That is it 391 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 5: taking a position that's just recognizing the compassionate humanity, and 392 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 5: then it in charges the media to follow the story, 393 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 5: you know. 394 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 3: Right right? 395 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: And also, I mean I think the position that they 396 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 1: should have their day in court is not a controversial position. 397 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 5: It's a very you know, it's a very American belief, 398 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 5: you know, like we're not saying that the court is 399 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 5: going to be in your favor, but you, after knowing 400 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 5: what happened, you should be entitled to your day in court. 401 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's my feeling too, So, uh, talk to me 402 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: more broadly though, there are some. 403 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 3: Like it does feel. 404 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 1: Like, well, there have been a lot of steps back 405 00:21:55,760 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: recently towards racial justice. I'm thinking about like the other 406 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 1: stuff the Supreme Court has done. There have been some 407 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: big wins too. 408 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 6: Yeah. Absolutely. 409 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 5: I mean, for me, this whole journey in terms of 410 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:16,640 Speaker 5: like national federal government legislation. Things started with Congressman Barbaroly 411 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 5: calling me on my personal phone five now six years 412 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,439 Speaker 5: ago and saying that she wanted to write legislation to 413 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 5: create the first Every US Truth, Racial Healing and Transformation Commission. 414 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 5: I couldn't believe I got that phone call I saw 415 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 5: in two o two. 416 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 6: I thought it was the IRS. I thought it was 417 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 6: you know. 418 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 5: Student Loan, and I almost didn't answer, you know, and 419 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 5: when I answered, it was her And. 420 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,439 Speaker 6: She saw me on c spam Book TV doing a panel. 421 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 5: I was moderating a panel on slavery, and she said, 422 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 5: I watched it and I just wanted you to know 423 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 5: how amazing it was and that you're doing good working. 424 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 5: If you're available, I would love for you to work 425 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 5: with me on this, And you know, I said, of course. 426 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 5: And over the course of that journey, I've met so 427 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,200 Speaker 5: many people from so many different walks of life, so 428 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 5: many different races and religions and ethnicities who are all 429 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 5: working around issues of truth, reparations, reparative justice, equity, anti poverty, 430 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,919 Speaker 5: voting rights that most of America doesn't get to know about. 431 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 5: And so part of what I've been feeling a lot 432 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 5: about is like people would be surprised to find out 433 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,719 Speaker 5: that there are so many towns, cities, regions, states, and 434 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 5: areas of the country and worlds where black people are 435 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 5: not the dominant majority and they're doing a reparations process. 436 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,640 Speaker 5: You know, California did the first in the nation ever 437 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 5: reparations commission, and they didn't even become a state until 438 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 5: eighteen fifty. And the nation did not fall apart. California 439 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 5: didn't succeed from the Union, Northern California didn't become its 440 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 5: own state. Los Angeles is still intact because it's a 441 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 5: democratic process, and it demonstrates that you can use this 442 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 5: process to actually find out where the harm lies, where 443 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 5: the damage is. And it's really just saying, why can't 444 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,719 Speaker 5: we use reparations as an invitation to create a more 445 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 5: beautiful America. I mean, that's my position on it. And 446 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,439 Speaker 5: when you talk with a lot of people, that's the 447 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 5: place that they're operating from. It's not from a place 448 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 5: of anger or hate or rage or zero sum. It's like, 449 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 5: rather than waiting for another war to come, another conflict, 450 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 5: another virus to kill people, and then to use that 451 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,400 Speaker 5: to unleash all of the full resources that America has 452 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 5: in its arsenal. We could actually just use the premise 453 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 5: of our history native land dispossession and enslavering Black Africans 454 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 5: as the kind of continuous permission to build a better nation. 455 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 5: We could just do it from that place and it 456 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 5: would be beneficial to everyone. 457 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,479 Speaker 3: Yeah. I also think that it's a question of like 458 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:41,360 Speaker 3: are we. 459 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: Of country that is fair and just or are we 460 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: a country that is not fair? You know, like this 461 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: is I mean, who do we want to. 462 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 6: Be that's right? 463 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 5: And are we a country that continues to operate with 464 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 5: multiple injuries? 465 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 6: The answer is yes. 466 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 5: If we were a national foo fotball team, it would 467 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 5: be like, you know, Aaron Rodgers got injured the first 468 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 5: game with the Jets ACL tear, you got to go 469 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,640 Speaker 5: have surgery. Not only do we have an ACL tair, 470 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 5: then we had a knee tair, a back tair, all 471 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 5: of these different things. When people say trail of tears, 472 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 5: when people say slavery, when people say Jim Crow. These 473 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 5: if we think about the body, these are injuries to 474 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 5: the body. And yet and still we then go to 475 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 5: war multiple times over our history, and we think that 476 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,400 Speaker 5: we're fully healthy in when we're doing this, rather than 477 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 5: being on the field of the global stage, playing injured 478 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 5: all of the time. And of course, when you have 479 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 5: an injury and you have to go to the hospital 480 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 5: and go through a healing, it isn't the most fun 481 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 5: thing initially, But when you get on the other side 482 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 5: and you're actually healed from it, you're back better than ever. 483 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,439 Speaker 5: You know, you can then take on what's ahead. And 484 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 5: we know that the world has so much more other 485 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 5: things that are on the horizon, other challenges that if 486 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 5: we continue to be on a global field playing injured, 487 00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 5: I don't know how long we can keep pace. 488 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:01,640 Speaker 3: No, I agree. 489 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: I also wonder a little bit about how it might 490 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: fix the sort of brokenness in America. 491 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, one thing that could happen is that we could 492 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,360 Speaker 5: really get into the point that once upon a time, 493 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 5: not long ago, there was no such thing as white people. 494 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 5: It just did not exist. And the reason why whiteness 495 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 5: was working is because there was a dominant majority that 496 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 5: was experiencing a kind of dominant experience of upward mobility, 497 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 5: of you know, American dream happening in your family, the 498 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 5: kind of Horatio Alger story. But what we've been seeing 499 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,679 Speaker 5: for the last fifty years in white communities, for so 500 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:43,679 Speaker 5: called white communities, opioid epidemics, the loss of intergenerational wealth, 501 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 5: educational outcomes declining, people dying of early ages. All sorts 502 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 5: of things that traditionally were thought to be happening only 503 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,640 Speaker 5: in marginalized communities are now happening amongst a dominant group. 504 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 5: Hence the tea Party, they insurrect, all of they occupy 505 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 5: Wall Street. And if people start to understand that whiteness 506 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 5: is a scam and at the very least one of 507 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 5: the most toxic identities ever created, then we can start 508 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 5: to think, like, Yeah, why am I invested in an 509 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 5: identity that's. 510 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 6: Literally killing me and other people? 511 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,360 Speaker 5: Why am I invested in something that makes me responsible 512 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 5: for a US government that created a three fifths clause 513 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 5: in its own constitution? Why am I invested in identity 514 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 5: that is no longer returning the benefits that they promised me? 515 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 5: That is I think a big part of it is 516 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 5: understanding that a lot of these things that people are 517 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 5: in vested in are lives that were told to them 518 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 5: so that they could feel okay with being in a 519 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 5: kind of dominant experience, and that experience is becoming less 520 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 5: accessible for everyone. But with the affirmative action conversations and 521 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 5: Supreme Court decisions. It just keeps feeding the distortion that 522 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 5: when black people or a LATINX folks or Asian Americans 523 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 5: are getting success, it's at the expense of the dominant majority, 524 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 5: when in fact, LATINX, black and Asian folks are not 525 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 5: experiencing this super generational, once in a lifetime generational mobility. 526 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 5: Most Americans are finding a loss at it, and rather 527 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 5: than attending to that, they just distract us with stories 528 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 5: about the fearless fun is just for black women. 529 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 6: That's unfair. 530 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 5: You know, Evanston is going to give out ten million 531 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,880 Speaker 5: dollars to descendants of African American descendants of slavery. 532 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 6: That's not fair. 533 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 5: And it's like, but we learned when a coronavirus came 534 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 5: something we never expected to happen and killed millions of people, 535 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 5: there were trillions of dollars available. People got PPP loans, 536 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 5: including members of Congress, and no one bad it than I. 537 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,199 Speaker 5: So we know that the resources are there, and we 538 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 5: know that they don't take away from somebody. It wasn't 539 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 5: like the PPP loan was money that they took from 540 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 5: San Francisco to give the Los Angeles. 541 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 6: It didn't work like that. 542 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 5: It came from the collective pot that we call the 543 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 5: United States government and it went to everyone in need. 544 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 5: And that's what reparative justice is about in the first place. 545 00:28:55,040 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 1: So there's some anxiety that Biden is not performing as 546 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: well as he has historically with black voters. 547 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 3: What could he do to win black voters? 548 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 5: What he can do is one listen more than he speaks, 549 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 5: to take and make the meeting with Congresswomen Barbara Lee 550 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 5: that she's been waiting for his entire administration. We've now 551 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 5: done three open letter campaigns, public open letter campaigns, including 552 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 5: one that she coordinated with her colleague, Congresswoman Sheila Jackson, 553 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 5: league Congresswomen Corey Bush and Congressman Jamal Bowman. They've asked 554 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 5: for a meeting. 555 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 6: That was it. There's been no meeting. 556 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 5: And Congresswomen Barbara Lee is the highest ranking black woman 557 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 5: in the US Congress. How can you just decide not 558 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 5: to meet with her? That tells me everything about what 559 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 5: you think about black people and black voters. And part 560 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 5: of what happens is when you try to make them 561 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 5: accountable for that, there's this pushback of like, we're the 562 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 5: most diverse administration. Ever, on day one, we put forward 563 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 5: a racial Equity Executive Order, the first of his kind, 564 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 5: Katanji Brown, Kamala Harris, and it's like, I don't weaponize 565 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 5: black representation to silence people about the things that the 566 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 5: community needs, especially because some of the things that they're acclaiming, 567 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:13,960 Speaker 5: for example, the most diverse administration, the Racial Equity Order, 568 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 5: all of these other gods. They closed the black white 569 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 5: wealth gap at percentages not seen in many years or 570 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 5: in decades. 571 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 6: That is the responsibility of every president. 572 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 5: If we're talking about society that was founded on enslaving 573 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 5: Black Africans, there was a gap when you got the 574 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 5: job that you got to close. That's always every president's job. 575 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 5: So you're doing it, okay. But why you were hired, 576 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 5: why seventy two plus million people voted for you, was 577 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 5: because Breonna Taylor lost her life. Was because George Floyd 578 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 5: lost his life. And you brought George Floyd's grieving orter 579 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 5: to your office and you told her on national television 580 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 5: you would get this done for her, and you would 581 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 5: bring her back to the Oval office and sign this bill. 582 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 5: Four years later, that has not happened. Four years later. 583 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 5: There have been multiple state of the unions where Breonna 584 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 5: Taylor's name has not even been mentioned. And I think 585 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 5: as citizens, as people who care about our democracy, we 586 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 5: all have a duty to ensure that this remains an 587 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 5: unfulfilled promise and not a lot, because if we start 588 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 5: to live in a world where elected officials are allowed 589 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 5: to publicly on camera lie to black children, then what 590 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 5: are we here for? 591 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 3: Such a good point. Thank you so much for joining us. 592 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 6: You already know. 593 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 5: Thank you so much for holding the space and for 594 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 5: modeling for your colleagues across the media spectrum that these 595 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 5: kinds of conversations are really needed and actually really positive. 596 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in 597 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to hear the best minds 598 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you 599 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend 600 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.