1
00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:04,640
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Stephen Ferdick. I'm the pastor of Elevation

2
00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:07,120
Speaker 1: Church and this is our podcast. I wanted to thank

3
00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,479
Speaker 1: you for joining us today. Hope this inspires you. Hope

4
00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:12,520
Speaker 1: it builds your faith. Hope it gives your perspective to

5
00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:17,680
Speaker 1: see God is moving in your life. Enjoy the message.

6
00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,400
Speaker 1: We've got a very important message. Those who are here,

7
00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:23,919
Speaker 1: you can just take a seat right where you are

8
00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,000
Speaker 1: in your home. I want you to do your best

9
00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,560
Speaker 1: to clear out distractions because I think this is going

10
00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:35,199
Speaker 1: to be a very very significant message today. And why

11
00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:36,879
Speaker 1: don't you go ahead and get set up behind me.

12
00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,080
Speaker 1: I asked them instead of bringing out my pulpit today,

13
00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,320
Speaker 1: to bring out two chairs because I'm not doing this

14
00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:51,440
Speaker 1: alone today. This is a very very strategic moment, and

15
00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,480
Speaker 1: I've asked my friend, Pastor John Gray to come and

16
00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:59,680
Speaker 1: help me bring this message today before he comes. And

17
00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:01,880
Speaker 1: really I'm just stalling to give them time to set

18
00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,120
Speaker 1: this up, or I'd call him up right now. But

19
00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:09,200
Speaker 1: look at these chairs they brought for us. This is serious.

20
00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:12,560
Speaker 1: And the reason I wanted two chairs to be up

21
00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,440
Speaker 1: here is because I was noticing one time in scripture

22
00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:20,280
Speaker 1: how Jesus stood for people that others didn't stand for,

23
00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,720
Speaker 1: and he stood by people that others didn't stand with.

24
00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:30,000
Speaker 1: And in a moment where our nation is collectively reeling

25
00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,000
Speaker 1: from the atrocity of the murder of George Floyd on

26
00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:36,720
Speaker 1: the streets of Minneapolis, Minnesota, in this nation at the

27
00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:41,520
Speaker 1: hands of a law enforcement officer, I thought it was

28
00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,280
Speaker 1: time for us. In fact, I knew it was time

29
00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:46,640
Speaker 1: because the Holy Spirit spoke to me that it was

30
00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:50,120
Speaker 1: time for us to sit down, sit down and have

31
00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,400
Speaker 1: a conversation. Today's message will feel a little different than

32
00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:57,040
Speaker 1: the typical message because there comes a time where in

33
00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:58,840
Speaker 1: order to take a stand, first you have to take

34
00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:04,760
Speaker 1: a seat. And I think the reason that Jesus was

35
00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:08,160
Speaker 1: able to stand with people and stand for things that

36
00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:11,360
Speaker 1: mattered to the heart of his father is because he

37
00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:17,160
Speaker 1: sat with people to understand situations. And today I wanted

38
00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:21,760
Speaker 1: to I wanted to bring Pastor John, who I could

39
00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:23,359
Speaker 1: tell you a lot of things about. I could tell

40
00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:25,520
Speaker 1: you what he means to our family. I could tell

41
00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:27,079
Speaker 1: you what he's meant to our church in these last

42
00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,959
Speaker 1: few years. But the reason I wanted to bring him

43
00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,560
Speaker 1: is because we both felt like it was time for

44
00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:37,160
Speaker 1: a conversation. A conversation not only about race and not

45
00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,760
Speaker 1: only about racism in America, but about the heart of

46
00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,200
Speaker 1: God and a way forward. And so I want our

47
00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:47,959
Speaker 1: global Elevation Church family and even relentless church family that

48
00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,160
Speaker 1: spends over the great state of North Carolina to South

49
00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,520
Speaker 1: Carolina together help me welcome right now one of the

50
00:02:54,520 --> 00:03:07,519
Speaker 1: greatest gifts of God on the earth today, Pastor John Gray, huh,

51
00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:17,320
Speaker 1: I love you back. We were saying, like, how nervous

52
00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,840
Speaker 1: we are because we're going to talk about things today

53
00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:25,359
Speaker 1: that that normally get sometimes passed over because they're difficult

54
00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,119
Speaker 1: to talk about. But we were also nervous about whether

55
00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:32,280
Speaker 1: to hug each other because people are gonna say more

56
00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,080
Speaker 1: about the fact that we unsocial distanced for our hug

57
00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:37,320
Speaker 1: right than the things we'll talk about today. But they

58
00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:39,640
Speaker 1: didn't see all the hand sanitizer in the back and

59
00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,960
Speaker 1: all of the right right, like we took hand sanitize

60
00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:47,080
Speaker 1: our bats before we came out exactly. And hey, the

61
00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:49,800
Speaker 1: last time you were at Elevation Church, there were actually

62
00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:52,600
Speaker 1: people in the room. There were human beings here, and

63
00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,960
Speaker 1: you still have I think, I guess these are your leaders,

64
00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,200
Speaker 1: some of your leaders. Yet these are we we tested

65
00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,520
Speaker 1: all of the staff of Elevation Church to find out

66
00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,920
Speaker 1: who are the most spiritual, who are the most material?

67
00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:12,160
Speaker 1: This this is the these are these are the elites,

68
00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:14,360
Speaker 1: And so it's just a few were not able to

69
00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:18,000
Speaker 1: open physically. How's it been for you pastoring in a pandemic, man,

70
00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,560
Speaker 1: this has been I mean there's no definition for this.

71
00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:23,680
Speaker 1: You know where scripture says you have not been this

72
00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:28,080
Speaker 1: way before. None of us who are alive have you know,

73
00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:33,440
Speaker 1: experienced anything like this. Our church has stepped up in

74
00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:37,680
Speaker 1: a supernatural way. Our team Relentless has been just unbelievable

75
00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:43,719
Speaker 1: and remarkable in their creativity to be globally honoring of

76
00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,200
Speaker 1: what I believe our position is in the Kingdom, but

77
00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,760
Speaker 1: still meeting the needs of our local community. And I

78
00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:51,840
Speaker 1: see you all doing the same thing. You are a

79
00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,760
Speaker 1: global pastor, but this region and all of the campuses

80
00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,919
Speaker 1: of Elevation have still maintained their commitment to the local church.

81
00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,680
Speaker 1: That is the power of these buildings being closed but

82
00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:08,599
Speaker 1: the church still being open. Yeah. So uh, it's I

83
00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,000
Speaker 1: want to shout out all of our Relentless family because

84
00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:13,839
Speaker 1: this is a dual moment. Tag team. Yeah, this is

85
00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,280
Speaker 1: a tag team, man, It's chocolate and vanilla. Let's get

86
00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:20,320
Speaker 1: it going. It's to swirl and I'm grateful. Man, is

87
00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,720
Speaker 1: that our tag team named the swirl the Swirl? I

88
00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:25,560
Speaker 1: don't know. We can think about it. Let's think about it.

89
00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,640
Speaker 1: We might do a revision or a second or smocha vanilla.

90
00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,320
Speaker 1: I don't know. We'll figure it out. I want to

91
00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,359
Speaker 1: say thank you for a few things. One for all

92
00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,640
Speaker 1: the times you've blessed our church through the years. You've

93
00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,119
Speaker 1: been one of the greatest blessings that God has given

94
00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,359
Speaker 1: our church family, just as a man of God. But

95
00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:48,680
Speaker 1: also for reaching out to me, not just this week,

96
00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:50,400
Speaker 1: but you reached out to me a few years ago,

97
00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,839
Speaker 1: and you begin to say, we need to have conversations

98
00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,200
Speaker 1: about what's going on in our nation, in our world,

99
00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:02,599
Speaker 1: and specifically as it relates to race. And I'll be

100
00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,520
Speaker 1: honest with you, and if I can just have a

101
00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,239
Speaker 1: minute to set up the background for how this happened.

102
00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:13,120
Speaker 1: You texted me on Wednesday and all you said was hey,

103
00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,480
Speaker 1: And I sent you back a heart emoji because I

104
00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:17,919
Speaker 1: knew you would take it the right way, you know,

105
00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:22,320
Speaker 1: And I said it was my way of saying I'm here,

106
00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:31,560
Speaker 1: because I think we were all processing the images seeing

107
00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:39,560
Speaker 1: another black man murdered in the street, and for me

108
00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,719
Speaker 1: this time, my twelve year old Graham, my son, saw

109
00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:47,440
Speaker 1: it before I did, so he was telling me, you

110
00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:52,600
Speaker 1: don't watch it, dad, you know. And I had had

111
00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:54,880
Speaker 1: my phone off all day and that's why I didn't

112
00:06:54,880 --> 00:07:00,320
Speaker 1: see it. And it took me until Wednesday to be

113
00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,000
Speaker 1: able to type some thoughts about that that I posted

114
00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:08,120
Speaker 1: on social media. And right after I posted it, I

115
00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:12,600
Speaker 1: had that empty feeling that although I had said everything

116
00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,640
Speaker 1: that I knew to say, in the moment, it felt

117
00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:21,400
Speaker 1: so empty. And the moment I was thinking, this isn't enough,

118
00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:25,920
Speaker 1: Like how many times are we going to post and

119
00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:30,560
Speaker 1: then feel better because we posted, and then just move

120
00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:35,600
Speaker 1: on and accept this. Your text came through, Hey, and

121
00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,720
Speaker 1: then I sent you that heart. And what I didn't

122
00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:42,080
Speaker 1: tell you until this moment is I had just been

123
00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:46,560
Speaker 1: praying in between, somewhere between crying and praying and asking

124
00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,520
Speaker 1: God to show me what to do that would be

125
00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,400
Speaker 1: more than a post. And you reached out and sent

126
00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,760
Speaker 1: me a video after that first text, And when I

127
00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,400
Speaker 1: saw your face on my computer screen the message came

128
00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:04,520
Speaker 1: through the computer, I saw how hurt you were in

129
00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:06,600
Speaker 1: your eyes, and I saw how tired you were on

130
00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:08,680
Speaker 1: your face, and I saw how angry you were all

131
00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:13,120
Speaker 1: at the same time, and you said, I think it

132
00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:17,400
Speaker 1: might be time for us to continue our conversation that

133
00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,600
Speaker 1: we started in twenty eighteen when you had the bridge

134
00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:26,640
Speaker 1: of it. And about that time, my oldest son, Elijah fourteen,

135
00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:31,320
Speaker 1: walked in and he said, is that Uncle John. I

136
00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:33,360
Speaker 1: said yeah. He said, you're listening to and preach. I

137
00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,320
Speaker 1: said no, he sent me this message and we're we're

138
00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,640
Speaker 1: talking about the murder of George Floyd and what we

139
00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:42,240
Speaker 1: can do as the church. And I said, how do

140
00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,320
Speaker 1: you feel about it? And he sat on the edge

141
00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:49,160
Speaker 1: of my couch in my office and his eyes just

142
00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,360
Speaker 1: looked down at the ground and he said, I feel

143
00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:59,200
Speaker 1: hopeless about it. That this would ever change. This is

144
00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:04,840
Speaker 1: always happening. And I knew between seeing you on the

145
00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:06,840
Speaker 1: screen and seeing my son on the couch that we

146
00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:10,439
Speaker 1: had to do this right now. Not plan an event

147
00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:15,120
Speaker 1: for three months from now, not have an Instagram live

148
00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:19,600
Speaker 1: that may get buried in all the noise, but like, okay, God,

149
00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:25,560
Speaker 1: here's the platform of our churches on a Sunday, and

150
00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,800
Speaker 1: all of the people that we can speak to and

151
00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:32,200
Speaker 1: we need to offer this opportunity to speak not only

152
00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,640
Speaker 1: into the pain and injustice of this moment, but what

153
00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,600
Speaker 1: God says to it. I wanted to thank you for

154
00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:43,280
Speaker 1: being the answer to my prayer. Wow, because what was

155
00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:47,120
Speaker 1: just a text message to you was an answer to

156
00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,440
Speaker 1: prayer for me. I had no idea what I would

157
00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:52,040
Speaker 1: do or what I would say, but I knew we

158
00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,560
Speaker 1: needed to say something. And then here you are, and

159
00:09:55,640 --> 00:10:03,760
Speaker 1: I'm really grateful for you. Man. I want to say this,

160
00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:09,240
Speaker 1: the fact that you had the courage to speak in

161
00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:16,200
Speaker 1: the moment when many of our white pastors, brothers and

162
00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:22,880
Speaker 1: sisters normally have reserved their comments until they get all

163
00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:27,560
Speaker 1: the facts. For you, with all of your influence, the

164
00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:31,440
Speaker 1: annoying that's on your life, and the global position of

165
00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,840
Speaker 1: leadership that you hold in the church, for you to

166
00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:38,160
Speaker 1: step out and say, regardless of the facts, what I

167
00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,040
Speaker 1: saw is enough for me to say, from a human standpoint,

168
00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:46,400
Speaker 1: this is wrong. And I want to thank you because

169
00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,280
Speaker 1: what it did is it broke something that has been

170
00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:54,720
Speaker 1: quiet but very real for many of us as black pastors,

171
00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:59,280
Speaker 1: because in moments like this, and they've happened far too often.

172
00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:04,520
Speaker 1: Always get texts to my phone but they won't talk

173
00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:08,920
Speaker 1: about it out loud, and in this season, silence his agreement.

174
00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:13,240
Speaker 1: I don't need you to quietly tell me you're praying.

175
00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,920
Speaker 1: I need you to publicly say this is wrong, because

176
00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,400
Speaker 1: this is not just about race. This is about justice.

177
00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:23,800
Speaker 1: And the entire Bible is about justice throughout the throughout

178
00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:27,000
Speaker 1: Old Testament into the New Testament. God is very clear

179
00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,440
Speaker 1: that even with Israel, he said, treat the alien and

180
00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,720
Speaker 1: the stranger among you. This is how you treat them.

181
00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:39,520
Speaker 1: And so this idea of a lack of humanity, and well,

182
00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:41,520
Speaker 1: what did he do? Let's find out what he did

183
00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:43,800
Speaker 1: for us. If we don't want the video, I don't

184
00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:45,880
Speaker 1: want to comment on the video too. I know the backstory.

185
00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,280
Speaker 1: If I put my knee in the neck of a

186
00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,920
Speaker 1: dog and it was caught on video, everyone would want

187
00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:54,880
Speaker 1: me to go to jail and never want me to

188
00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,360
Speaker 1: preach again because they had more compassion on a dog

189
00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,120
Speaker 1: than we have for a man dying in the street.

190
00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:07,320
Speaker 1: That's a problem. It's a heart problem. It's an empathy problem,

191
00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:11,120
Speaker 1: and it is systemic and it is spiritual at its route.

192
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,760
Speaker 1: And so I want to thank you for not being

193
00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,400
Speaker 1: afraid to step out from the shadows and use your

194
00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:22,760
Speaker 1: considerable influence to let the world know I stand with

195
00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:27,280
Speaker 1: justice and I stand with what is right. It means

196
00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:33,120
Speaker 1: the world well. To me, it would be hypocrisy to

197
00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,200
Speaker 1: pastor a church that was diverse. And I don't just

198
00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:40,120
Speaker 1: mean diverse racially black and white. I mean diverse on

199
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:45,200
Speaker 1: every level, from different levels of education, different levels of income,

200
00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:49,840
Speaker 1: young old. I grew up in vacation Bible school. I

201
00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:51,840
Speaker 1: don't know the book Ruth from a baby Ruth. You know,

202
00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:57,280
Speaker 1: there's all kinds of diversity in our church. And if

203
00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:05,400
Speaker 1: I celebrate that diversity, never address the disparity. To me,

204
00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:10,520
Speaker 1: that hypocrisy. And although we don't turn this pulpit into

205
00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,280
Speaker 1: a reflection of the news cycle, because that would be

206
00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:17,480
Speaker 1: lethal to our ability to teach God's word. And preach

207
00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,840
Speaker 1: God's word, I know when the spirit of God speaks

208
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,319
Speaker 1: to me, that's the That's the only way I can

209
00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,960
Speaker 1: describe seeing your video is that this is a moment

210
00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,640
Speaker 1: in time where even though this is a global ministry

211
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,520
Speaker 1: and some may find this not as relevant based on

212
00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:37,240
Speaker 1: where they live or what they think, what we're talking

213
00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:42,559
Speaker 1: about today is the heart of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

214
00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:47,160
Speaker 1: That's right. This is not an issue that we can

215
00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:51,160
Speaker 1: relegate to one group. So if I say, look how

216
00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:55,280
Speaker 1: beautifully diverse this church is, but I don't speak to

217
00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,040
Speaker 1: the injustice or the pain of someone who is in

218
00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,640
Speaker 1: my church, what am I really doing? Am I ministering

219
00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:08,400
Speaker 1: or am I arranging the esthetic to be pleasing? And

220
00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,040
Speaker 1: for me, I've watched you all over the world. We've

221
00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,760
Speaker 1: been in Australia together, we've been we've been in some

222
00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:20,120
Speaker 1: interesting environments together, and I've watched Pastor John. This is

223
00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,400
Speaker 1: how annoying he is. And I know our church family

224
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,880
Speaker 1: knows this. And I'm not saying anything new, but he

225
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,960
Speaker 1: can walk into a room where everybody's white, or everybody's black,

226
00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,600
Speaker 1: or there's any percentage. And I've never seen somebody so

227
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:40,640
Speaker 1: effectively transcend cultures and mindsets like you do. Never, I'm saying,

228
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,400
Speaker 1: of everyone i've ever seen, try any name we want

229
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,600
Speaker 1: to put up here, I've never seen someone that effective

230
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,560
Speaker 1: and not only being inclusive, but it's speaking to the

231
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,360
Speaker 1: needs of everyone. And I never really asked you where

232
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,680
Speaker 1: that came from. How did you become that way? How

233
00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:59,560
Speaker 1: did God develop you to be so transcendent in your gift?

234
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,920
Speaker 1: I think, honestly, it started with my mother. She was

235
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,560
Speaker 1: in social work for close to forty years, got her

236
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:15,080
Speaker 1: degree in social work, and in the eighties, late seventies, eighties,

237
00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:19,400
Speaker 1: she was often the only African American woman in rooms

238
00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,960
Speaker 1: filled with white people. And I would see pictures from her,

239
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:27,480
Speaker 1: you know, her professional retreats in all these places, and

240
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,240
Speaker 1: my mother had this big old afro, and she'd be

241
00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,560
Speaker 1: this afro in the middle of all this blonde hair.

242
00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,200
Speaker 1: And my mother had to be able to live in

243
00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,160
Speaker 1: a world that already saw her not only as black,

244
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,000
Speaker 1: but as a black woman. So she had to doubly

245
00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,480
Speaker 1: work as hard to be taken seriously. But she never

246
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:50,320
Speaker 1: brought bitterness home. She always brought hope home. That was

247
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,640
Speaker 1: very fascinating to me. But it was rooted in her

248
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,440
Speaker 1: understanding of who she was and what her calling was.

249
00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,640
Speaker 1: So she was always the person to build bridges, and

250
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,800
Speaker 1: she taught me to be the same. She told me

251
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,080
Speaker 1: that God told her I was going to be a

252
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,120
Speaker 1: world leader, and she was determined to raise me in

253
00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,160
Speaker 1: a way that I would be able to converse with

254
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:15,000
Speaker 1: people from different backgrounds and empathize. I've always had a heart.

255
00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,200
Speaker 1: I grew up in Cincinnati, Ohio and born in seventy three.

256
00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:22,200
Speaker 1: Growing up, there was very real racial tension, but I

257
00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,240
Speaker 1: was always the guy trying to build bridges before it

258
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,320
Speaker 1: was a thing, before it was popular. I always wondered,

259
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:32,120
Speaker 1: how if I go to that neighborhood, if I'm walking,

260
00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:33,920
Speaker 1: I get called the N word out the window. That

261
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,480
Speaker 1: actually happens. But if I stay in this neighborhood, I'm good.

262
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,440
Speaker 1: But if they get to know me, they'll know I'm

263
00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:44,120
Speaker 1: not what they think because oftentimes we look at an

264
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:48,120
Speaker 1: image and not the substance. And so my mother taught

265
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,720
Speaker 1: me how to see people through the lens of grace.

266
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,560
Speaker 1: So I extend the grace that I want people to

267
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,760
Speaker 1: have towards me. So I grew up honoring all cultures,

268
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,400
Speaker 1: even if I don't understand. You know, I didn't understand

269
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,359
Speaker 1: while they were listening to Cindi Lauper. I'm listening to

270
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:09,080
Speaker 1: run DMC. But then I started listening to Cindy Lauper.

271
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,760
Speaker 1: Now I'm singing time after time. You know what I'm saying,

272
00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,400
Speaker 1: Because I'm willing to step into other people's reality so

273
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,240
Speaker 1: that I can feel what it's like to be them.

274
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,359
Speaker 1: The challenge is I don't often see that coming the

275
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,920
Speaker 1: other way, because if there's ever empathy, then we wouldn't

276
00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:33,120
Speaker 1: see this lack of humanity. So when I think about

277
00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:36,600
Speaker 1: what's so critical for us to understand in this moment,

278
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:42,119
Speaker 1: this idea of diversity versus inclusion, because there are a

279
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,359
Speaker 1: lot of white pastors who have black people on their

280
00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,080
Speaker 1: worship teams, but they don't have them in their leadership.

281
00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:50,880
Speaker 1: And that's a challenge because if you got thirty five

282
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,320
Speaker 1: forty percent of a black congregation and you don't address this,

283
00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:58,280
Speaker 1: what you're saying is your presence is good, and your

284
00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,920
Speaker 1: culture is good, and your tie is good, but your

285
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,399
Speaker 1: pain is not. You've got to be able to embrace

286
00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:06,679
Speaker 1: the totality of me, so I can trust you with

287
00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,640
Speaker 1: my soul because I've been carrying this pain for too

288
00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,359
Speaker 1: long for you to be silent about the blackness that

289
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:16,920
Speaker 1: I have to experience every single day. I agree, And

290
00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:21,000
Speaker 1: let me tell you something. I'm standing here. I believe

291
00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:22,919
Speaker 1: as a voice for those who will never have the

292
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:27,840
Speaker 1: opportunity to speak, and I have to deal with racial

293
00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:32,119
Speaker 1: inequity and bigotry. Even in my own neighborhood where I

294
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,000
Speaker 1: live right now, there are neighbors who have said to

295
00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:37,879
Speaker 1: me out of their mouths, I don't like you, and

296
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,639
Speaker 1: I don't want to know you. And your kids are

297
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,480
Speaker 1: too loud in your backyard, and I need you to

298
00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:49,520
Speaker 1: tell your kids to be quiet because they're disturbing my peace. Also,

299
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:51,760
Speaker 1: I don't like the way you park your car in

300
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,320
Speaker 1: your driveway. This is God's truth. They think, because of

301
00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:57,640
Speaker 1: their whiteness, they have the ability to tell me how

302
00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:01,919
Speaker 1: to live in the property. That I we have a

303
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,399
Speaker 1: problem and it has been emboldened because of the current

304
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,560
Speaker 1: systems and the current boldness of the spirit of this moment.

305
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,280
Speaker 1: So I carry a pain that even now, as whoever

306
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,280
Speaker 1: I am, if I walk in the wrong place, or

307
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,000
Speaker 1: go to the wrong place, or drive the wrong way,

308
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,120
Speaker 1: I carry the fear that they won't know John Gray,

309
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,640
Speaker 1: the bridge builder that hangs out with Pastor Stephen in Australia.

310
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:28,840
Speaker 1: They won't know the guy who wants to raise his

311
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,280
Speaker 1: son and daughter to be global citizens and respect people,

312
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:34,719
Speaker 1: not because of the color of their skin, but, as

313
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,320
Speaker 1: doctor King said, for the content of their character. Not

314
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,959
Speaker 1: as a husband to avanter or a pastor to relentless.

315
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:43,199
Speaker 1: They will see me as a big black man with

316
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:45,679
Speaker 1: a beard and a hoodie who might have a gun

317
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,080
Speaker 1: on his hip, and I felt threatened, and so my

318
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,800
Speaker 1: blackness is weaponized before you know the character of my manhood.

319
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,320
Speaker 1: That's a problem. And I'm not just talking about the

320
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:02,800
Speaker 1: officers of the law. Even in church there are people

321
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:04,920
Speaker 1: who are saved and who will sing what a friend

322
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,439
Speaker 1: we have in Jesus. But at home, I'm every inn

323
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,720
Speaker 1: word they can think of. And that is the real issue,

324
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,280
Speaker 1: because this is not going to be something that is

325
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,600
Speaker 1: now you got me sitting up. You were not going

326
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,160
Speaker 1: to be able to heal this at the legislative level.

327
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,480
Speaker 1: This is not a legislative thing. You can't pass a

328
00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:28,440
Speaker 1: law to change someone's heart. That's why this conversation has

329
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,479
Speaker 1: to happen in the church, because only the Holy Spirit

330
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:39,960
Speaker 1: can change the heart and change their mind, and change

331
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:45,080
Speaker 1: their perspective and change their perception and give people value

332
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:49,120
Speaker 1: that every single human being that God ever created has

333
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,560
Speaker 1: the same inherent value because of the blood of Jesus.

334
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 1: I have the same right to live, the same right

335
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:02,160
Speaker 1: to pursue my dreams as you. I don't want special treatment, Steven,

336
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,439
Speaker 1: I want equal treatment. I want my son to be

337
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:07,880
Speaker 1: able to hang out with Elijah and I want both

338
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,119
Speaker 1: of them to feel like they can go home if

339
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:13,480
Speaker 1: they encounter a cop. But the truth is, Elijah has

340
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:17,480
Speaker 1: a better chance of getting home than my son. And

341
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,080
Speaker 1: it's not your fault, but the system which has been

342
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 1: here since sixteen nineteen until right now, four hundred years

343
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,119
Speaker 1: of systemic oppression, two hundred and forty four years of

344
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:32,520
Speaker 1: American chattel slavery that literally dismantled black families over and

345
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 1: over again, and then after that the Grandfather Clause and

346
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 1: the Jim Crow era and even into the Civil Rights

347
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,480
Speaker 1: Act of sixty four and the Voting Rights Act of

348
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,920
Speaker 1: sixty five, Brown versus Board of Education in fifty four,

349
00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:47,800
Speaker 1: And we look at all these things where they try

350
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:51,439
Speaker 1: to move the needle for a separate but equal and equality,

351
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,879
Speaker 1: but we have never seen equality. Because the truth is

352
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:59,480
Speaker 1: we're only three generations removed from humans owning other humans

353
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 1: in this nation, right and we've got to talk about it,

354
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 1: and we can't talk about it politically. We got to

355
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,400
Speaker 1: talk about it from the church because the church needs

356
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:13,920
Speaker 1: to reconcile the sins of silence and the sins of apathy,

357
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:18,560
Speaker 1: the sin of indifference, the sin of indifference, you know,

358
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 1: the sin of indifference is for me to say, well,

359
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 1: I'm not a racist. Do you see how innocent that

360
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 1: sounds on the surface, But it becomes an excuse for

361
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:35,199
Speaker 1: me to say that just because I haven't experienced it

362
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:39,120
Speaker 1: in that way, it doesn't exist, right. I don't get

363
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 1: the luxury pastoring this church and this church family of

364
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: getting to pastor a white church or a black church

365
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,879
Speaker 1: or any one type of church. What I love about

366
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 1: that is that it forces me not only to be

367
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 1: able to say the cliches of Christianity or the cliches

368
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,879
Speaker 1: of equality, but when you lead people and you pastor people,

369
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 1: it's not political, it's personal, yes, sir. And the thing

370
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 1: that I was thinking about this moment is that I

371
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,439
Speaker 1: haven't talked to one person who was not appalled and

372
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 1: disgusted by what happened to George Floyd. Should it take that?

373
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:27,919
Speaker 1: Should it take that? Should it take a knee on

374
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:32,880
Speaker 1: the neck of a man in the street for us

375
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 1: to hear the cries of our brothers and sisters, or

376
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 1: should we be able to hear this? You know through LJ,

377
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,439
Speaker 1: who plays behind me every weekend, when he says I

378
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,640
Speaker 1: don't feel safe walking in my neighborhood. He put out

379
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 1: a post that haunted me a few weeks ago after

380
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,639
Speaker 1: the death of Ahmaut Aubury. He said, I realized that

381
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 1: walking through my neighborhood with my kids was the only

382
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 1: way safe for me to walk through my neighborhood, because

383
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,119
Speaker 1: without them, I become that suspicious black man with a hood.

384
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 1: Is that not enough? That he has my back every

385
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 1: week in ministry And I'm going to let him have

386
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: my back in ministry musically, but I'm not going to

387
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 1: hear his pain and I'm not going to Does it

388
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:24,639
Speaker 1: take Does it take an image that grotesque and flagrant

389
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 1: to get our attention? You know? To me, this moment

390
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: that we're in is symbolic of the sickness that we allowed,

391
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 1: and yet we'll give more attention to the symptom of

392
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 1: it than the sickness beneath it. oOoOO, Jesus you you

393
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,360
Speaker 1: you bless me. Yeah, I told you this, I say

394
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 1: it publicly. You're the greatest preacher of our generation. There's

395
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:57,399
Speaker 1: nobody that God is using like you, and what you

396
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 1: said speaks to the type of conversations that we need

397
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 1: to have in forums like this. It shouldn't take the

398
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 1: image of a man's life that is ebbing away in

399
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 1: front of us, and then after he's dead, he was

400
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 1: still on his neck for three minutes. That is just cruelty.

401
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 1: That's a lack of human empathy. And I don't know

402
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 1: what was in the mind of the officer at that time.

403
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 1: There were four officers there. You tell me that you

404
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: all couldn't figure out a way to pick him up

405
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: and get him in the car. I can already see

406
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: them framing the narrative. They put out a preliminary autopsy

407
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 1: report that says, well, he had some coronary issues and

408
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 1: you know, his arteries were clogged, and he had some hypertension,

409
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 1: and there might have been some narcotics in his system.

410
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: And so they're throwing that out there as if there

411
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: if in those nine minutes, you give me the proportional

412
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 1: statistical possibility that he was going to die in those

413
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: nine minutes in the back of a car, versus having

414
00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,679
Speaker 1: a knee on his neck. And I will tell you

415
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 1: that it's a valid argument. But it's not a valid argument,

416
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:07,199
Speaker 1: And stop dehumanizing him and criminalizing him, and the people

417
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 1: who say, well, what did he do? It wasn't enough

418
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 1: to die for even if he did what they said,

419
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 1: which is apparently maybe he forged to check. And if

420
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: he did, then then then serve the time for that

421
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: after due process. But you don't die for writing a

422
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 1: bad check. You handle whatever that is. But it takes

423
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 1: an image like that, the same way it took the

424
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: image of Emmitt Tills open casket for our nation to

425
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,199
Speaker 1: be shocked by the brutality of what was happening in

426
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 1: the South, in the Southern States, all of us who

427
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 1: who understand the georeligious construct of the different versions of

428
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,360
Speaker 1: Jesus depending on what part of the country you live in,

429
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 1: Because we got a lot of devout folk in the South,

430
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 1: but they're real quiet about moments like this, but real

431
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,439
Speaker 1: loud about their Jesus. But their Jesus is gun toting

432
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: and republican and black Jesus is democrat and liberal. In

433
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: the truth is Jesus is neither, because he wasn't political,

434
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 1: he was monarchy, he was spiritual, bless and so we

435
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 1: need to deal with Jesus as he is right. But

436
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 1: it takes the image of a man that looks like

437
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 1: me mitda Arberry shot with a shotgun jogging Brianna Taylor

438
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 1: in her house, sleep in her bed. Sorry, wrong house,

439
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 1: wrong house. And if you listen Stephen to the the

440
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 1: nine to one one call from her boyfriend. The cops

441
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: left her there, they said, sorry, wrong house. He had

442
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:37,919
Speaker 1: to call nine one one to get people to come back.

443
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 1: They killed her and left, and then he had to

444
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 1: call nine one one for help and then they charged

445
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: him with murder. This is the reality, and those images

446
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 1: are the things that shock us from our apathy. And

447
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 1: so should it take that No, it shouldn't. It should

448
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 1: it shouldn't, but it has well. I think we have

449
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 1: a stewardship. When the national consciencesiness is pierced Ephen for

450
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: a moment, it gives us a window, and it gives

451
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: us an opportunity to speak to the horror that people feel.

452
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 1: My issue is that in a lot of these situations,

453
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: we have reduced Jesus and Christianity to the most comforting

454
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: things that he said. And there even people have already

455
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: logged off of this service right now once they found

456
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 1: out what the topic was going to be and that

457
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: it wasn't going to be comfortable, or that I wasn't

458
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 1: going to tell them how to make it through the valley.

459
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: You know, the moment that I mentioned something that made

460
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 1: them maybe feel like they were going to hear something

461
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: either that challenged them or that they have become numb to,

462
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: because I think a lot of what happens is that

463
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: we get overwhelmed. So when Elijah walked in my office,

464
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: what scared me so much was he's already falling into

465
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: despair that this can change. And he's white. Now, if

466
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: my fourteen year old white son is already falling into

467
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: despair that this is ever going to change, despair is

468
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: just as deadly as denial. And I want to ask

469
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: if you agree with me that we have to be

470
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: so careful that we don't live in denial about what exists,

471
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: but the despair that we can change it is just

472
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: as dangerous. You know, the moment I start to think, well,

473
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: what can I do? I can't change this. I don't

474
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 1: know the president, I'm not able to affect legislation, I

475
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: don't really understand all the surrounding issues. Nobody's going to

476
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: listen to me. The moment I start to give into that,

477
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: the moment that I just accept it and tolerated, I

478
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: give up the possibility to change it. And that's why

479
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: I said let's get together. This may not be enough.

480
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: And I knew when we walked into this today, we

481
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: won't say it right. For some people. I'll say it wrong.

482
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: You'll say it wrong. We'll say too much, we won't

483
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: say enough. I was telling my barber today it's legal

484
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: to get haircuts again, right, Okay, So he's cut my

485
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: hair today. I didn't want to get us in trouble.

486
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: He was cutting my hair and we were talking, and

487
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: I asked him to be here for this conversation because

488
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: he gave me so much love and perspective about what

489
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: it's like to be in a black man in America

490
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: over the last three years. But when I said we

491
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: were talking, I told him, you know, you need to

492
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: pray for me in tongues because you know, no matter

493
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: what I say, no matter what John says, somebody is

494
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: going to be there to dissect it. One of the

495
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: things that I said this week was that I have

496
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: never first hand experienced the brutality of systemic and overt

497
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 1: racism toward black men and women in America. And I thought,

498
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: you know, well, maybe someone will criticize some of that,

499
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 1: and somebody did. Somebody said, you use the word overt,

500
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: but it's really the covert racism that we have to

501
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: be more concerned about. Somebody said, you use the word

502
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: systemic racism, you're just to pawn for the mainstream media,

503
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: and you're just you know, you're you're just regurgitating terms.

504
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: But what I didn't see coming this is what I

505
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: was telling you. It's not really funny, but it's funny

506
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 1: and it goes to show how, you know, we have

507
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: to speak even though people may misunderstand. Somebody actually sent

508
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 1: me a message and what they took upence with was

509
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: men and women who are black, and they crossed out

510
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: men and women and said people because by saying men

511
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: and women, I was not being gender inclusive enough. So

512
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: here I am follow the whole thought talking about a

513
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: man who is suffocating on the street, screaming for his

514
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: mother and the injustice of it. And somebody is correcting

515
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 1: the typo of like it's like it's a paper with

516
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 1: a typo. And I realized that if we wait for

517
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 1: everyone to agree with it or figure out how to

518
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 1: say it just right, like it might come out wrong,

519
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: but at least we're speaking on lease say something stupid.

520
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 1: But we have lost this art of conversation because we

521
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: have replaced it with clicks and comments, and so we

522
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: don't talk, so we don't empathize. And since we have

523
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: no relationships with people who don't understand our perspective, we

524
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,959
Speaker 1: continue to use even religious as a system to confirm

525
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: our biases. Because we go to church with people who

526
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: think just like us, look just like us, vote just

527
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,959
Speaker 1: like us, grew up just like us, sang songs clapped

528
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: on the two and the four, the one in the

529
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: three clap just like us, move just like us. And

530
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: because we never challenge ourselves and our perspective, we stay

531
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: stuck in states of spiritual immaturity and even regressive states

532
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: where we can't stand with anyone because we've never stretched

533
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: to understand anybody else's experience. I think we need to

534
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: just give God a five second phraise break all over,

535
00:32:54,920 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 1: Epham Rock family, Come on, let's Jesus, pastor Stephen, thank you,

536
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 1: Thank you for saying what you're saying right now, because

537
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: this is not about are we saying the perfect thing?

538
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: Allow us to have an emotional human moment. When you

539
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: read Psalm one thirty seven, the writer says, how can

540
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: we sing in a strange land? Then at the end

541
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 1: of the psalm. He says, Lord, dash my enemy's children

542
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: against the rocks. What a horrible thing to write. Why

543
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: is it in the Bible? Because God allowed for the

544
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: human emotion to be expressed without judgment. We don't want

545
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: the truth, we want to feel good. And I want

546
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: to say this, This conversation is not the end. It's

547
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: a beginning. And what I also want to say is

548
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: that if we only separate this by race, we're going

549
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: to lose the necessary people that need to be involved

550
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: in the conversation. Every white person is not a racist.

551
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 1: This should not be a place where white people need

552
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: to apologize for being white. I'm sorry for what my

553
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 1: ancestors did. That's great, but it wasn't you. Being a

554
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: part of a system doesn't mean that you overtly are

555
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: committing horrific acts. I think each individual should be dealt

556
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 1: with based on their character and what they're doing, and

557
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: so white people should not be sitting around feeling guilty

558
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: because they're white. And people who say things like this

559
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: really scare me. God doesn't see color. I've never seen color.

560
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 1: I'm colorblind. Well then you got a problem. Because God

561
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: is not color blind or culture blind. He created color

562
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:39,280
Speaker 1: and culture because he wanted diversity, which is in John seventeen, Father,

563
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: make them one as you and I are one, which

564
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 1: means diversity was the seed to see if we would

565
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: lay down our culture and pick up the kingdom. And

566
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,839
Speaker 1: that's why this conversation is important. All white people aren't

567
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: bad anymore than all black people are good and altruistic.

568
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 1: You've got individuals that are broken in every race, in

569
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: every culture, in subsection. But this is a necessary conversation

570
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: and it should not be approached from a judgmental perspective.

571
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: And I don't want people feeling like they are already

572
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: being judged is wrong or judged as unworthy of change

573
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 1: because of the pain of the moment. On the other side,

574
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have to temper my emotions to quell to

575
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 1: your discomfort. I'm enraged. I'm also scared because it could

576
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,320
Speaker 1: be me. It's enough that there's a virus that's killing

577
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 1: people that look like me at a disproportionate rate. I

578
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 1: got a virus that I gotta fight, and there's a

579
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:45,240
Speaker 1: virus called racism that I've been fighting. So the pressure

580
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: of both is a lot, and I think that we

581
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: need to be able to be okay with the conversation

582
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: without shredding each other's humanity. You know, we're not monolithic.

583
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 1: All African Americans don't think the same. All white people

584
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: don't think the same. You know. I went to the

585
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 1: White House, and brother, black people were finished with me.

586
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, he didn't, he didn't. I know he

587
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 1: wasn't up there with him because Black people have been

588
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: in so much pain that what they saw was someone

589
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 1: who identifies with who has now become, to many of them,

590
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: the picture of systemic oppression. They saw an image, but

591
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: didn't see the substance. When I went to the White House,

592
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: I went because I wanted to talk about prison reform.

593
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 1: I don't work the for that administration. I've not received anything,

594
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 1: but I needed to sit at the table. I thought

595
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: it was important. And it turns out that legislation that

596
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 1: I went to speak about was one of the few

597
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 1: bipartisan pieces of legislation that helped black and brown people

598
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 1: to get out of of the prison industrial complex. But

599
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 1: people didn't see that, And I understand why, because when

600
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 1: you're in pain, the first thing I see is the

601
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: thing I remember the most, and so I have to

602
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: understand that. Even though my heart was pure. So was

603
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: their pain. And so I have to understand that we're

604
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 1: at a very sensitive place, and I don't, you know,

605
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 1: talk cut me off, Stephen, because you know I'm a

606
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 1: black preacher and I talk a lot. But when it

607
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: comes to what I believe is the role of the

608
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,760
Speaker 1: church in this conversation, is we need to talk about

609
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 1: the fact that we're dealing with two different versions of Jesus. Man.

610
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 1: I think so. I think there's like the Jesus said,

611
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 1: did you ever have a toy where you pull the

612
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 1: string and they say like five things, seven things, over

613
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: and over again? What's that called the little Do you

614
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: know what I mean? I know my kid has one

615
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 1: that's a different saying. That's what we've done to Jesus.

616
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: We've programmed him to the five to seven things that

617
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:55,280
Speaker 1: we like him to say. And some of the things

618
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: that he said were so controversial that they got him killed,

619
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 1: guests killed. Speak on it, sir, because he threatened a

620
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: power structure and because what he represented for the marginalized

621
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: was so threatening for those who were in power. But

622
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 1: at the same time, I wanted to tell you this

623
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,760
Speaker 1: story that I never told you before about elevation, how

624
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 1: people get locked into one view of Jesus in one

625
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: view of church, and it's very difficult to break that

626
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 1: once it's been established. Like my view of church was

627
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:36,280
Speaker 1: kind of informed by Santi Circle Baptist Mission, where Pastor

628
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: Mickey let me come be the youth pastor, kind of

629
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: informed by Monk's Corner United Methodist where I grew up,

630
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: and then kind of informed by Voices of Unity, the

631
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: gospel choir that Chris Dixon invited and recruited me to

632
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: sing in. I went to go see the spring concert

633
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 1: for Voices of Unity, and I loved it so much

634
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: because I was looking for new music, because I was

635
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 1: trying to burn all my secular music, you know, my

636
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 1: secular CDs. I was having a bonifire from my Green

637
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 1: Day CDs and all that. And to me, somebody had

638
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: slipped me a Kirk Franklin tape and a John Peeky tape,

639
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 1: and I liked it enough to ask Chris Dixon when

640
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: was the spring concert. And I came to the concert

641
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 1: and then he asked me to join the choir the

642
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 1: next year, and I said, you don't really want me

643
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: to join. I'd be the only white person in the

644
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 1: Voices of Unity choir. He said, I'd love for you

645
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: to join. I want you to join, and I blew

646
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 1: him off, and I was kind of thinking he was

647
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: just being polite, but he kept chasing me down. He said,

648
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: our first rehearsals Wednesday in the bandroom. I want you there.

649
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,760
Speaker 1: I need you in my tenor section. And his mom,

650
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 1: Martha Dixon, was the sponsor of the choir. And I

651
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: spent that year, my senior year of high school, singing

652
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 1: with that choir and being welcomed being the only white

653
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 1: person in every church we went into to sing, and

654
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 1: it shaped so much of who I was that when

655
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: I went to college, they had a gospel choir called

656
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 1: Black Student Fellowship. I joined that one too. I love this,

657
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: and and that one changed the name to uh BSF

658
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: was Black Student Fellowship, but then it was Brothers and

659
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 1: Sisters Fellowship for the two years that I was there.

660
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 1: Because I was so you messed up the night I

661
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 1: was so, I was so determined to be in the choir,

662
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: YEA changed it. So that's not to say I've always

663
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,760
Speaker 1: been down, you know, That's That's not what I'm saying.

664
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 1: I'm saying so much of me was shaped. So when

665
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 1: Elevation Church was born, it was mostly white people. I

666
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 1: never saw that. I never saw that this would just

667
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: be a white church, black church front church. I never

668
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 1: saw that it would just be for the people that

669
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 1: that that believe in predestination or that believe in pre

670
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:55,919
Speaker 1: tribulation rapture. I never saw that. I just saw that

671
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 1: we would probably encompass a lot of different backgrounds. I

672
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: always thought that way. And I was telling this guy,

673
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: uh TJ. I'll say, for sure you remember him, And

674
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 1: I told him, I'm gonna start a church, and I

675
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: believe it's gonna be really diverse, and I believe it's

676
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:11,919
Speaker 1: gonna have all kinds of people, black people, white people,

677
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: young people. Then, you know, and and he goes, not

678
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 1: in the South, you won't not in the South, you won't. Wow,

679
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 1: help me Jesus. Well, in the South, we did, you know,

680
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 1: in the South, we did like, please don't limit my

681
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: God to your experience, like, please don't bring my God

682
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 1: down to the level of your frame of reference, you know.

683
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:47,439
Speaker 1: And I never I never got to bring that guy

684
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 1: to Elevation. I really wish, I really wish he could

685
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 1: come and I could show him what God did. But

686
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 1: but it wasn't a strategy. It wasn't thank you you know,

687
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 1: oh well, if we'll get black singer and a white

688
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 1: singer and a female singer. There was never any of that.

689
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: It was invested in me from the people who welcome me. Wow.

690
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,399
Speaker 1: And so it's impossible for me now to not want

691
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 1: to sit down with you and say I can't receive

692
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: from a culture, I can't receive from a community, and

693
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: then not sharing the pain of the people who make

694
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 1: up that community's right to me, that sin. To me,

695
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,439
Speaker 1: that's missing the mark, yes, sir, And to me, that's

696
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:33,959
Speaker 1: falling short of the standard that God has given the church.

697
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: And so when people say how do you diversify Elevation Church,

698
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 1: you know, how do you diversify? And like, well, first

699
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,800
Speaker 1: you have to go to the voices of Unity Concert

700
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: and realize that Martha Dixon does not sing past me,

701
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 1: not out of General Savior, the same way that they

702
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 1: sang it at Monk's Corner United Methodists. It's a completely

703
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: different rhythm, a completely different cadence. It's a completely different thing. First,

704
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,799
Speaker 1: you are going to have to expose yourself. I think

705
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 1: exposure is so critical because listen, if I were taking

706
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:07,399
Speaker 1: my view of people that don't look like me from

707
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: what I see in headlines and what I see that

708
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 1: it is presented to me from CNN or Fox News.

709
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 1: If I were to reduce it down to that, it

710
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 1: would kill my ability to empathize with the humanity of

711
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: that person. The only reason I know to have this

712
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: conversation with you is because of your friendship to me.

713
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 1: If you didn't give me the gift of your lens

714
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: to let me know what actually happens in your neighborhood.

715
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 1: But see, I can't have a black couple that sits

716
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 1: on the front row of my Sunday nine thirty every

717
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 1: week email me and say pray for us. It's been

718
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,399
Speaker 1: a hard week that my husband had the police called

719
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 1: on him for taking out the trash too late at

720
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: night in our neighborhood. And refuse to feel that and celebrate.

721
00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 1: We're a diverse church, blessed or the peace maders pull

722
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 1: the string and let Jesus say something to ignore the

723
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 1: issue that is really beneath Jesus. To me, that would

724
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: be the essence of hypocrisy. But a lot of people

725
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,399
Speaker 1: don't get to have conversations like this, or they won't

726
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 1: or they're scared they're say it wrong, or they don't

727
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 1: want to take the time, or they don't want to know,

728
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 1: or they'll just say, well, I could never understand what.

729
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 1: You need to start understanding because it's real, that's it,

730
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 1: and avoiding it won't make it go away. So we've

731
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: got to start understanding. We've got to start reading, we've

732
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 1: got to start learning some things, exposing some things. You know,

733
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 1: the light of the world, Jesus said you are the

734
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:32,800
Speaker 1: light of the world. I always thought that meant, you know,

735
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 1: quote scriptures and witness to people. It means don't be ignorant.

736
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: It means we've got to shine light on ignorance. That's right.

737
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: We've got to have revelation about things that we don't understand.

738
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,280
Speaker 1: Just because I haven't experienced it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

739
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 1: That's it. And when, please, please, can we just take

740
00:44:56,120 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 1: Steve O. We your experience with the BSF Choir, Brothers

741
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 1: and Sisters Fellowship, Black Student Fellowship, whatever the name was,

742
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 1: that had to change because you showed up. That's a

743
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: beautiful thing, because your presence changed the system, and your

744
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 1: presence changes the system, and it's why God had you

745
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 1: in those places because he knew you were going to

746
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 1: need to sit in that chair in twenty twenty. And

747
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: you're not pandering. You've lived it. And this is the

748
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 1: power of the moment that I didn't try to be

749
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 1: someone who's trying to build bridges. I've had to build them.

750
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: The problem with people who build bridges is when you

751
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: lay yourself down, they walk all over you, and they

752
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 1: often don't see your value until it's over. I told

753
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 1: you personally, I said, I don't really think things will

754
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: change either until somebody like me gets killed. I said

755
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: it to my wife. I'm not I hope it doesn't happen.

756
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:54,320
Speaker 1: I want to live, I want to walk my daughter

757
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,399
Speaker 1: down the aisle. But it takes somebody like that to die.

758
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 1: So somebody say this can't keep going. But it was organic.

759
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 1: Your connection to the communities that you would end up

760
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 1: pastoring was organic. And then it became intentional because I

761
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 1: do believe that there is an intentionality to continue the

762
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:16,359
Speaker 1: conversations around diversity and in the church, we have run

763
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 1: the other way after Brown versus Topeka, the proliferation of

764
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: Christian schools, which was a nice way of saying I

765
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 1: don't want my white kids going to school with black kids.

766
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna put Jesus in front of it and

767
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 1: call it a Christian school, put a tuition on it,

768
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 1: and not let my kids go to school with these

769
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: black kids. That's where that happened the Baptist in Southern Baptists.

770
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 1: The issue that separated them was the Southern Baptist wanted

771
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 1: to keep their slaves. Southern Baptist Southern Christian. We see

772
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 1: Jesus is okay with us owning other humans. So let's

773
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 1: keep singing what a friend we have in Jesus while

774
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 1: owning people. And so when you think about the silence

775
00:46:57,440 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 1: of the church, and somebody asked me, how come you

776
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,839
Speaker 1: think more white pastors don't speak out, and I say,

777
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 1: because it'll mess up their money, it'll mess up their

778
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,800
Speaker 1: tithe because they have too many people who think opposite

779
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 1: of justice, not race, just justice, just humanity. And they're afraid.

780
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 1: And I think that's why God wants to tear it

781
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 1: all down. The first thing Jesus did in the last

782
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: week of his life was turn over the table of

783
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 1: the money changers. So this is not about money. If

784
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 1: you're afraid you're gonna lose tithes because you speak out

785
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 1: against injustice. Maybe you shouldn't be pastoring right now if

786
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: you don't care about the humanity of somebody dying on

787
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:39,759
Speaker 1: the street. And here's the thing, if it was a

788
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 1: white woman with a black cop on her neck, I'd

789
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 1: still be on this stage because that is as wrong

790
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,240
Speaker 1: as as Big Floyd dying. This is not about color

791
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 1: for me. This is about systemic oppression of people in

792
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 1: power that are supposed to protect and serve. And that's

793
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:59,280
Speaker 1: years in the making. And again, this is the silence

794
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 1: of the church that must be addressed. This conversation is

795
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 1: the beginning of something that I think more churches need

796
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,919
Speaker 1: to have. It's so much that I want to say,

797
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 1: But I know I was thinking before we came, I

798
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 1: wish that the church could be full. I wish we

799
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:18,320
Speaker 1: could be together because this week has been so lonely

800
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 1: for so many people, and to process in church together

801
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: would be beautiful. But then I shifted and I thought,

802
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 1: I'm glad that the conversation will be happening in homes,

803
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: that hundreds of thousands of people will be experiencing this

804
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 1: conversation in their home, because if the conversation happens in

805
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 1: the home, Stephen Ferdict you better preach. I looked at

806
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 1: Elijah when he said it's hopeless. I said, if I

807
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 1: gave into that, if I gave into that, I'd be

808
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 1: sacrificing an entire generation and I would have no reason

809
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:03,280
Speaker 1: to ever stand up and preach again. So I refuse

810
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: to submit to that. I refuse to surrender to darkness.

811
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: I'm not ready to do that yet more. At the

812
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 1: same time, like to think that one person's life, mine

813
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 1: heart would change, not just feel guilty. I think that's

814
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 1: stopping well short of what's really going to bring about

815
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:29,319
Speaker 1: any change. Like guilt is not a strategy. You know,

816
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 1: I feel so bad about that. And I'm white and

817
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 1: I don't know what it's like to be black, and

818
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 1: I feel so bad, you know, broken heart emoji, I

819
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 1: feel horrible. Guilt is not a strategy. But maybe we

820
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 1: don't know the difference between guilt and repentance because I've

821
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 1: never talked to a black friend or someone who goes

822
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: to church here who is black that said, what I

823
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 1: want you to do is feel bad. Would you just

824
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 1: feel bad for me? Would you just feel bad about things?

825
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:04,760
Speaker 1: Feeling bad doesn't change anything. But repentance is different than guilt.

826
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 1: Repentance means change direction in the Old Testament and change

827
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,359
Speaker 1: your mind in the New Testament, Yes, sir, And so

828
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: it means we change direction, we do it differently. We

829
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: have to do it differently. We have to do this

830
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 1: differently than we've been doing it, or we're going to

831
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 1: continue to see this and then we're going to feel bad,

832
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 1: and then we're going to see it and then we're

833
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 1: going to feel bad. The only way to break the

834
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:32,840
Speaker 1: cycle ists to repent. And we were talking on the

835
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 1: phone about we can't just come out, sit down and

836
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:37,400
Speaker 1: wash each other's feet and sing a bridge over troubled

837
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:39,759
Speaker 1: waters and pass it on light candles in Kumbai, yah,

838
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 1: because you know at the end of the day that

839
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 1: would just be nothing but an anesthetic. But to really

840
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 1: repent in your heart and say, have I changed my mind?

841
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 1: Do I see things like God sees it? Or do

842
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,840
Speaker 1: I still allow in my heart these corners of darkness

843
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 1: that I make assumptions and that I allow prejudice and

844
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:01,319
Speaker 1: I excuse it. Do I allow those comp versations? Do

845
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,360
Speaker 1: I participate in them? Do I advocate them? Do I

846
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 1: co sign them by my silence? That's repentance. Repentance is

847
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 1: changing direction. Repentance is moving differently, thinking differently, speaking differently,

848
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 1: refusing to contribute by indifference. So I think the better

849
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 1: Biblical response to this is repent, which doesn't lay on

850
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 1: the floor and just cry. It's to get up and

851
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 1: walk in a different direction. Yes, sir, Yes, sir. When

852
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:39,360
Speaker 1: you talk about changing direction, the question is that I

853
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:44,280
Speaker 1: think white people need to be asking themselves in this moment,

854
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 1: what is in my heart about black people? And how

855
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: did it get there? Because there are people who say,

856
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,320
Speaker 1: I'm cool with everybody? How cool are you? Are you

857
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 1: cool enough to let your white daughter marry a black man? Oh? Yeah,

858
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 1: that's no problem. What about your mom? Would she be

859
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 1: okay with it? Aunts? And uncles? I know, Abby and

860
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:14,280
Speaker 1: John are about a year apart, my son, your daughter.

861
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 1: I hope they grow up together worshiping God with the

862
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:21,839
Speaker 1: amazing graves in the gardens box set. And you know,

863
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:24,240
Speaker 1: first of all, I'm so sick of you writing bangers.

864
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 1: I'm really tired of it, and I want to sit

865
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 1: in the writing room with you. But enough about that.

866
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:33,959
Speaker 1: But would they be okay, Charlotte? They probably be cool.

867
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 1: But if they were walking down the street in Monk's Corner,

868
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 1: just as friends. Would somebody have a problem they were

869
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 1: sitting in a diner, would your family be okay with that?

870
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:44,880
Speaker 1: We need to start asking those questions. That's why this

871
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:48,359
Speaker 1: conversation needs to be at home, because it's one thing

872
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 1: to be nice to me here, but how many in

873
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 1: words am I at your house? How many h words

874
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:58,319
Speaker 1: are white people in my house? See? Because it goes

875
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 1: both ways. I don't want to see because what we

876
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 1: can't do here is absolve any community from responsibility. If

877
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:06,640
Speaker 1: we're going to really have healing, then we need to

878
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 1: deal with the anger and the pain on one side

879
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 1: and the indifference and apathy on the other. There is responsibility.

880
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 1: I don't get to use my pain as a poolpit

881
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 1: to get angry at every white person when there are

882
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:22,879
Speaker 1: some areas of collective responsibility that I need to take.

883
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 1: But on the other side, if we're really going to

884
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,879
Speaker 1: change our minds, we need to be honest about what's

885
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 1: in there in the first place, and how it got there,

886
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 1: and how it got there and how it got there,

887
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:38,280
Speaker 1: and we get to affect that. Because that's the idea

888
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:40,720
Speaker 1: that I have. If we change one person's heart in mind,

889
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 1: if God changes one person's heart in mind through this

890
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 1: conversation today, or even if we can model like this

891
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 1: needs to happen at the kitchen table. This needs to

892
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 1: happen not only as a token conversation in a moment

893
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 1: that is as flagrant as the moment that we're in.

894
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:03,800
Speaker 1: It should be a course of conversation for followers of

895
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 1: Christ that really permeates our lives. And that's why I've

896
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:12,360
Speaker 1: kind of somebody will always say, that's fine, you're talking,

897
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 1: but what are you doing about it? And I've given

898
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:20,319
Speaker 1: my life to try to build something that represented more

899
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 1: than just one group of people. At the same time, John,

900
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:28,359
Speaker 1: there has to be more than just words. So if

901
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 1: we say this conversation is a start, but it's not

902
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 1: a solution, what's in your heart that you want to

903
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 1: see people do from watching us talk today? Do not

904
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:40,920
Speaker 1: just say, Do not just think, Do not just post?

905
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:44,840
Speaker 1: What do you really want to see people do? I

906
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:48,320
Speaker 1: want this conversation to begin to be the tipping point

907
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,839
Speaker 1: for the church to have the necessary conversations around true

908
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 1: reconciliation one to another. According to John seventeen, because if

909
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 1: we don't have the presence of God in the conversation

910
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 1: and in our heart, then empathy and compassion and activism

911
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:07,320
Speaker 1: won't matter. What I want is for this to begin

912
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 1: the necessary dialogue that we need to have with one another.

913
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 1: And then we need to have real world application in

914
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:17,799
Speaker 1: real time when we see injustice and systemic injustice on

915
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 1: the local, regional, and national levels, to mobilize and everybody

916
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:24,439
Speaker 1: moving that direction towards that. Once that's done, then let's

917
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 1: go in another direction. We've been talking about the bridge

918
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:30,479
Speaker 1: since twenty eighteen. There's a website that's live right now

919
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:33,279
Speaker 1: as of this moment called Become the Bridge. And all

920
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 1: I'm saying is if everybody would go there, just go

921
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 1: to become the Bridge, and if you want to be

922
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:40,799
Speaker 1: a part of the solution we're going to have. Here's

923
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 1: the thing we're going to teach people, because there are

924
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 1: a lot of people who genuinely don't know what's been

925
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 1: going on. And so it's one thing to be angry

926
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 1: or prejudice. It's another thing to be apathetic because you

927
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 1: don't know. So let's talk about what's really going on,

928
00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 1: and let's have conversation because I need to know your

929
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:02,320
Speaker 1: experience as well, see, because that helps me to understand

930
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:06,040
Speaker 1: how you arrived at your conclusions about people, and you

931
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 1: need to know where I come from. Strangest thing in Greenville,

932
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:14,280
Speaker 1: South Carolina. I pastor a multicultural, multi generational church. It's

933
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,920
Speaker 1: I can see why black people would follow you. It's organic.

934
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 1: It's also ingrained in the system that black people connect

935
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 1: to white leaders in a different way than white people

936
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 1: connect to black leaders. So it's a miracle that any

937
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 1: white person goes to my church in the middle of

938
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 1: the South, and that's a testimony to God. But the

939
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:35,359
Speaker 1: conversation needs to be how do we all meet on

940
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 1: this bridge and what is the purpose of unity. Unity

941
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 1: is not uniformity. We're not going to agree on everything,

942
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 1: but I'm going to fight for you until I die.

943
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:46,880
Speaker 1: And Elijah and Graham and Abbey are going to have

944
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 1: an uncle in me. And it doesn't mean that I

945
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 1: have the same bloodline as you, but I do have

946
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 1: the same spiritual lineage as you, and I'm going to

947
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 1: fight for them to have the same level of quality

948
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 1: of life that I want for my own children. And

949
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:02,759
Speaker 1: so t us having this conversation is coming from our

950
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 1: safe zone, stepping onto the bridge and saying let's have

951
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:10,360
Speaker 1: the uncomfortable initial conversation and let's invite family in. But

952
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:14,319
Speaker 1: then let's start having the ability to talk online. And

953
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 1: then here's a worksheet so you can talk through some

954
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 1: of these areas. And then later let's get some systemic

955
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 1: issues like redlining and credit worthiness and the ability to

956
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 1: get a small business loan, which is easier for some

957
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 1: than others. Let's talk about that, because it's not just

958
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 1: about you don't like me because I'm black, and I

959
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 1: don't like you because you're white. I'm hurting because I

960
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 1: can't get a loan and you can with the same

961
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 1: credit score and the same tax returns, but because of

962
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 1: the color of my skin, I don't have access to

963
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 1: credit or capital. Some of this is systemic, some of

964
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 1: it is monetary, but all of it is rooted spiritually.

965
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 1: So the website become the bridge. It's a place where

966
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 1: we can have the first conversation. Then we're going to

967
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:00,919
Speaker 1: mobilize from there, and in every single read, we're going

968
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 1: to lift up people who have empathy, compassion, and a

969
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 1: heart for diversity, true inclusion, not this soft kumbaya. It

970
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:12,960
Speaker 1: doesn't work. But I need to be able to feel

971
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:15,520
Speaker 1: your pain, and I need you to be able to

972
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 1: feel my pain. That's the compassion that Jesus spoke about.

973
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:21,040
Speaker 1: He's like, you give them something to eat. They were like,

974
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:24,120
Speaker 1: we don't have enough money. You feed them. He was

975
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 1: exhausted after preaching all day. He had compassion and healed

976
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 1: them all. He was always talking about compassion. That means

977
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 1: I empathize with the hunger and the pain of the

978
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 1: people who have no voice, they are lost. He was

979
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 1: always compassionate. The prostitute at the Pharisees house, he had compassion.

980
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 1: The woman that was caught an adultery, he had compassion.

981
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:45,920
Speaker 1: It was always messing up systems. The Samaritan at the well, compassion.

982
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 1: She didn't come from his background. He had compassion. Cyro

983
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 1: Phoenician woman, the leper who you aren't supposed to touch,

984
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 1: he had compassion. And if we're really going to be

985
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 1: the Church, then we need to be a church that

986
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 1: has compassion on the modern day lefl systemic racism and

987
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:05,600
Speaker 1: the victims of systemic social injustice and the racism that

988
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 1: has existed in the church, and the prejudice and the

989
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 1: pain that it has produced on both sides. We need

990
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 1: to meet in the middle, and then we all need

991
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 1: to look up to the cross, because until that blood

992
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 1: gets on our minds, it won't get in our hearts,

993
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:24,640
Speaker 1: and it won't get in our hands, and nothing will change. Huge. Sorry,

994
00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 1: I didn't mean to hit your nice chair. It's a

995
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:30,440
Speaker 1: sturdy chair. It is hit it again? See what is

996
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 1: this restoration heart? Where that hurts? I want us to pray,

997
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 1: and I would love it if you would pray. But

998
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 1: I don't just want us to pray on the stage.

999
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 1: I want I want everybody watching to just take a

1000
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:54,080
Speaker 1: moment and kind of like create a little bit of

1001
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 1: a space and by your head and close your eyes

1002
00:59:56,080 --> 01:00:00,080
Speaker 1: and if there's anything else that you want to min

1003
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 1: before you pray, it's great. But as we're getting said

1004
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 1: to pray, I want to thank you. It can't be

1005
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 1: easy to say these kinds of things when you know

1006
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 1: how many different perspectives there will be on what you've said,

1007
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:16,680
Speaker 1: but you've never been afraid to say them. And thank

1008
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:19,720
Speaker 1: you today for the gift of your perspective and your wisdom.

1009
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 1: I've never had a friend more brilliant than you. But

1010
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:26,160
Speaker 1: also I want to thank you for not being so

1011
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:29,840
Speaker 1: brilliant that you forget how to help us feel. And

1012
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:34,160
Speaker 1: I think sometimes we become so numb that we don't

1013
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 1: feel anything anymore. And I want you to pray for

1014
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 1: the people who feel overwhelmed and they feel like I

1015
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 1: can't do anything, so I don't want to do anything.

1016
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 1: I can't do everything, so I don't want to do anything.

1017
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:45,439
Speaker 1: And I want you to pray for the people who

1018
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:47,760
Speaker 1: have been blind to this, that God would open their

1019
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 1: eyes and also minister anything else that you want to

1020
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:59,040
Speaker 1: minister in these closing moments. I love you. I'm grateful

1021
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:06,800
Speaker 1: for your life. I'm grateful for your heart, the text

1022
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:08,959
Speaker 1: that they will never see the things that I send

1023
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:11,240
Speaker 1: you to just speak life into you, to let you

1024
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:13,200
Speaker 1: know how important you are to the Kingdom of God.

1025
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 1: I meant them then, I mean them now. I'm grateful

1026
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 1: that I get to live at the same time as you.

1027
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:24,200
Speaker 1: I'm the biggest cheerleader of what God is doing at

1028
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 1: Elevation Church because it is breaking the back of the

1029
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:30,840
Speaker 1: devil that has existed in this region of the country

1030
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:34,400
Speaker 1: for hundreds of years. And I hope to God that

1031
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 1: you live long enough to see the fruit through Graham

1032
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 1: and Elijah and Abby and John in theory. I'm grateful

1033
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:44,400
Speaker 1: for your encouragement to me and the relentless family when

1034
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 1: many people walked away at the brokenness of moments that

1035
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 1: I knew were coming because I knew what was in me,

1036
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:55,680
Speaker 1: and God sent you to speak life to me at

1037
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:58,480
Speaker 1: some of the most difficult and challenging moments of my life.

1038
01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:00,040
Speaker 1: I want to thank you for being a friend. I

1039
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:03,480
Speaker 1: had a white friend, but my friend, and now we're

1040
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:06,040
Speaker 1: having a conversation that most people would be afraid to have.

1041
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:09,240
Speaker 1: You got a lot to lose if it goes wrong,

1042
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 1: and you cared enough about the voiceless and the nameless

1043
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:16,360
Speaker 1: and the faceless, and the black kids in the hood

1044
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:19,360
Speaker 1: of Charlotte and all over where your campuses are, in

1045
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:21,960
Speaker 1: the global family and the shanty towns of South Africa.

1046
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:24,360
Speaker 1: You cared enough to let them know that I see

1047
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:27,840
Speaker 1: you and you matter, and that their soul was more

1048
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:43,240
Speaker 1: important than your platform. I thank God for you, and

1049
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:49,840
Speaker 1: for Big Floyd's family in amad Arberry, Brionna Taylor and

1050
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:53,560
Speaker 1: Sterling and Sandra Blaird and Tamara Rice and Trayvon Martin,

1051
01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 1: and for so many black bodies that have died because

1052
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:03,600
Speaker 1: of injustice and apathy and a lack of human empathy.

1053
01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:06,680
Speaker 1: I'm grateful that this moment has begun, and I pray

1054
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 1: that the church will not turn a blinded eye to

1055
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:14,800
Speaker 1: this conversation. I was always the guy running to build

1056
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:17,800
Speaker 1: bridges between the black church and the white church, hoping

1057
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:22,480
Speaker 1: that they would receive me, hoping that they would understand

1058
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:25,800
Speaker 1: who I was. And for a moment there, I was

1059
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:28,920
Speaker 1: so busy building bridges that a part of me forgot

1060
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:33,280
Speaker 1: that I am black. And if things go wrong, I'll

1061
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:35,520
Speaker 1: die in the street and they won't care. I'll just

1062
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:40,160
Speaker 1: be wet teddy bears and old flowers and melted candles

1063
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:43,760
Speaker 1: on the side of a road. But I'm more than

1064
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:47,920
Speaker 1: a preacher. I'm a man. I'm a black man, and

1065
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:51,600
Speaker 1: my life matters, and it is equal to the value

1066
01:03:52,080 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 1: of every other life in this nation, in the world. Yes,

1067
01:03:56,160 --> 01:04:01,160
Speaker 1: all lives matter, but this black life matters, and George's

1068
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:05,200
Speaker 1: life matters, and the people who didn't get an opportunity

1069
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:08,440
Speaker 1: for justice, their lives matter as well. And my prayer

1070
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:11,640
Speaker 1: is that you will have compassion and empathy in this

1071
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 1: moment for the pain of people who have never had

1072
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:20,440
Speaker 1: anyone to advocate for them. And may the church be

1073
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:25,480
Speaker 1: a voice to the voiceless, and may you feel something.

1074
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 1: Go back and look at the video and if something

1075
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:32,480
Speaker 1: doesn't move in your heart, asks the Holy Spirit to

1076
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:34,880
Speaker 1: give you a heart of flesh instead of a heart

1077
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:38,360
Speaker 1: of stone, because if you can watch anyone die and

1078
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:42,840
Speaker 1: feel nothing, then I'm certain that the heartbeat of Jesus

1079
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:47,440
Speaker 1: is not yet fully activated in you. And my prayer

1080
01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:51,120
Speaker 1: is that the Black Church and the white Church will

1081
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 1: take black and white off of the front and just

1082
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:58,920
Speaker 1: become the Church. That we will live in community and

1083
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 1: fight for the unity of the Spirit in the bond

1084
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:04,960
Speaker 1: of peace, pursue peace with all men, and holiness without

1085
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:09,360
Speaker 1: which no man shall see the Lord. May God touch

1086
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:14,840
Speaker 1: our hearts, prick us to a heart of action, and

1087
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:17,880
Speaker 1: may unity in the body of Christ be a hell

1088
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:21,600
Speaker 1: we are willing to die on. I've made my decision.

1089
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:25,640
Speaker 1: I'm willing to step into a bullet and in front

1090
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 1: of a bullet so that Stephen can live. And I

1091
01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:32,400
Speaker 1: believe that if the same were happening to me, he'd

1092
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 1: do the same, because that's what it may cost to

1093
01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:41,400
Speaker 1: see true unity. But I pray that no more bodies

1094
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:44,160
Speaker 1: have to be on the ground. I pray that no

1095
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:49,080
Speaker 1: more cities have to burn. I pray that no more

1096
01:05:49,240 --> 01:05:53,520
Speaker 1: black mothers feel closer to Jesus because they lost their

1097
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:59,040
Speaker 1: only begotten son too. My prayer is that the pain

1098
01:05:59,160 --> 01:06:05,000
Speaker 1: is enough for you to now effectuate change. But change

1099
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:08,920
Speaker 1: is not your actions. Change starts in your heart. And

1100
01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:11,040
Speaker 1: so God, I pray right now, by the power of

1101
01:06:11,080 --> 01:06:14,000
Speaker 1: the Holy Spirit and in the name of Jesus, that

1102
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 1: you will take this initial conversation prick our hearts. And

1103
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 1: if my people, who are called by my name, that

1104
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:27,040
Speaker 1: was an admonition to the church, If the church will

1105
01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 1: do what it needs to do, I'll heal the entirety

1106
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:35,400
Speaker 1: of the land. But I'm reconciling this issue through the

1107
01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:40,760
Speaker 1: Church because true heart change comes from the presence of

1108
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:44,840
Speaker 1: the Holy Spirit, found most perfectly in the person of Jesus.

1109
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:54,600
Speaker 1: So may we have a relentless moment of elevated consciousness.

1110
01:06:55,560 --> 01:07:00,840
Speaker 1: Elevate us God, and may we pursue justice relentlessly. May

1111
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:06,160
Speaker 1: we celebrate our differences while attacking at its root the

1112
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:10,080
Speaker 1: systems of oppression and the spirit of injustice that has

1113
01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:15,240
Speaker 1: ruled the day. May we change our hearts by seeing

1114
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:22,280
Speaker 1: each other as equally valuable. God, give us hope, give

1115
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:28,560
Speaker 1: us peace, give us strength, show us the pathway. This

1116
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:33,520
Speaker 1: is my prayer, Your brown son and your white son

1117
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:43,600
Speaker 1: ask in Jesus' name. Amen. Thank you for joining us.

1118
01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:46,360
Speaker 1: Special thanks to those of you who give generously to

1119
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:49,920
Speaker 1: this ministry. Is because of you that this ministry is possible.

1120
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:52,560
Speaker 1: You can click the link in the description to give

1121
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:56,560
Speaker 1: now or visit Elevation Church dot org slash podcast for

1122
01:07:56,640 --> 01:08:00,640
Speaker 1: more information and if you enjoyed the podcast, you canubscribe.

1123
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:02,959
Speaker 1: You can share it with your friends. You can click

1124
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:05,200
Speaker 1: the share button, take a screenshot and share it on

1125
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:08,120
Speaker 1: your social stories and tag us at Elevation Church. Thanks

1126
01:08:08,160 --> 01:08:14,560
Speaker 1: again for listening. God bless you