1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: Podcast playground. So this is Buzznight. I'm the host of 2 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: the Taken a Walk podcast series, and one of the 3 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,119 Speaker 1: things I love about the Taken a Walk series is 4 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: I get to connect with a lot of old friends, 5 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 1: but I get to reconnect with new friends. But Jonathan 6 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: sorof for my time in Boston, I feel like I've 7 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: known you since You've been here forever, being the pulse 8 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:32,919 Speaker 1: of Boston. So it's nice to formally meet you. Likewise, 9 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: thank you. I've known your voice forever. So we're at 10 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: this amazing place, the Public Garden in Boston, one of 11 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: my favorite places, and I know yours for those that 12 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 1: don't know about this beautiful place. Set the scene. So 13 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: this park was built in the late nineteenth century. Frederick 14 00:00:54,960 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: Lomstead designed it as the beginning of the Emerald Net, 15 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: which is a series of parks that sort of encircle Boston. 16 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: But this was landfill. This was originally all salt marsh, 17 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 1: and it's across the street from the oldest park in America, 18 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: the Boston Common. And you know, I just I'm so 19 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: proud of this place because it was such a visionary 20 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: thing for Bostonians in the late nineteenth century. You know, 21 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: all these beautiful trees here that you see that are 22 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 1: three stories tall, they were little saplings. They knew that 23 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: it was not going to look like this for one 24 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: hundred years. And now you have, you know, the iconic 25 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: Swan boats on the Swan Pond. You have the world's 26 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:45,320 Speaker 1: smallest suspension bridge going over the Swan Pond. You're surrounded 27 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: by the city, but you feel like you're just in 28 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: this oasis and it's it's no matter what the time 29 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: of year is, in the middle of the winter or now, 30 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: it is absolutely stunning. I'll put this park up against 31 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: any park or garden in the world. I bumped into 32 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: tourists from everywhere in the world, Japan and France and 33 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: England and wherever, places that are known for gardens, and 34 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: they all marvel at how incredibly beautiful it is. It 35 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: really is. It's special. I missed coming here as regularly 36 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: as I used to because I would, you know, have 37 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: my routine in the morning, you know, stop the gym 38 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: over on boil stim but before going to the gym, 39 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: have to walk through you know, this place here, and 40 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: you know, just watch people and just take into beauty. 41 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: I purposefully if I'm in a bad mood. I purposefully 42 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: make a point of putting this somewhere on the route 43 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: so that I walk through here because it never fails 44 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,359 Speaker 1: to kind of lift my spirits. We're going to come 45 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: back to that because I'm going to follow up on 46 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: that piece of the interview a little bit later. Do 47 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,639 Speaker 1: you remember the first time that you came here. Oh, 48 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: I had to have been a child. I remember being 49 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: very young and my parents taking me on the Swan boats. 50 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: But I was born and raised in Boston. Neither of 51 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: my parents were so they were transplants, and when we 52 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: were kids, they brought us to every sort of landmark 53 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: in Boston because they were experiencing it for the first time. 54 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: So this was, you know, a place. And I remember 55 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,799 Speaker 1: my friends in school. I went to an independent school, 56 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: so when you go to a private school, you have, 57 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: you know, friends who live everywhere. So I lived out 58 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: in the suburbs, but I had lots of friends on 59 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: Beacon Hill and would we would run around. This was 60 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: our playground and where we misbehaved during high school. I 61 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: love it. I love it. Now. Did you ever imagine, 62 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: as somebody who grew up in this area, you would 63 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: leave and go to Duke right to college, yeah, and 64 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: that you would come back here and that you would 65 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: have this job where you get to soak in the 66 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: beauty of the community. Did you ever? Is that what 67 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: you set out to do? Now? So it's not even 68 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,040 Speaker 1: a little here. Let's hear the story. So I I 69 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: grew up. My parents' divorced when I was about eight 70 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: years old, and my father moved to New York because 71 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: he had an opportunity to build a hospital and a 72 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: hospital that he was a surgeon, and to build a 73 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: hospital to his specifications and to put together like a 74 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: world class So anyway, he moved to New York, and 75 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:18,679 Speaker 1: so I partially grew up in New York a little 76 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: bit because I went to see him every other weekend. 77 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 1: And I thought, in college and high school, I pictured 78 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: my adult life in New York. And then I graduated 79 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,239 Speaker 1: from college and it was time to find a job 80 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 1: and get a life. And I realized that what I 81 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: did when I visited my father, like going to the theater, 82 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 1: going out to dinner, all those things were never going 83 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: to happen on whatever salary I was going to make. 84 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, New York went from being 85 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: this place I always envisioned myself living to being someplace 86 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: I had zero desire to live. And I came back 87 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: to Boston and my only sort of real skill was writing, 88 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: and I sent my resume to every publication in you know, 89 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 1: in the Boston area, and the Boston Herald hired me 90 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: when I was right out of Duke and that was 91 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: the beginning of my career. Yeah, so you were at 92 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: the Boston Herald for a few years. I was there 93 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: for about four years, and I was they It was wonderful, 94 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: despite the fact that I worked for Rupert Murdoch looking 95 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 1: back as something that's somewhat objectionable to me, I you 96 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 1: didn't know how objectional it will be, No, and it 97 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,359 Speaker 1: was very different back then. But I also they gave 98 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: me just tremendous opportunities. I was an editorial assistant on 99 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: the city desk, which means I wrote obituaries, and I 100 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 1: did the weather page, and I did like, you know, 101 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: spot news, little things like you know, somebody spotted a 102 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: whale in Charlestown or some you know. And they took 103 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,919 Speaker 1: me from that to they let me write about nightlife. 104 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: I guess they noticed that I came in Hungover to 105 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 1: work in what year was this? This is nineteen eighty seven, 106 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: eighty eight. I graduated from Duke and eighty seven, so 107 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty eight, and so they gave me the beat 108 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: of nightlife columnist, and I also did a lifestyle trends 109 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: like you know, what's the latest book to read, What's 110 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: the latest restaurant to go to, What's you know, the 111 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: coolest movie? And so I was this kid and I 112 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: was getting paid to go out at night, which I 113 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 1: was going to do anyway, and they let me go 114 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: to the best new restaurants and the you know, it 115 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 1: was the most unbelievable opportunity. And I owed the Boston 116 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: Herald a huge debt of gratitude. And Ken Chandler, who 117 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: was the editor then, who could have said, you know, 118 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: who the hell is this kid? He took a major 119 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: roll of the dice on me. And I'm forever indebted. 120 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: Is on the job learning. I'm taking this absolutely. I 121 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: remember the first story I ever did. You know, I 122 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: very quickly learned how to do obituaries, which are very formulaic. 123 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: But the first story I had to write, I just 124 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: seized up and I forget who the columnist was. But 125 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: one of the Herald's big columnists. He saw that I 126 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: was struggling with this news story and he said, just 127 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: write like you're talking to a milkman from Topeka, Kansas. 128 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: And I was like, okay, And that was how I 129 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: got my first you know, story done, because I was 130 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: just terrified, absolutely terrified, And that was that time. Certainly, 131 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: in a lot of cities, Boston included those of us 132 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: that certainly sort of followed journalism and print journalism, it 133 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: was really kind of a gift to be a two 134 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: newspaper town, really right, absolutely, And it's very important. You know, 135 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: I certainly exist at one end of the political spectrum, 136 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: but I have many people who are very close to 137 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: me who exist at the absolute opposite end of the 138 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: political spectrum, and we have to talk to each other. 139 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: And not talking and not having more than one voice 140 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: is I think, harmful to democracy. And as much as 141 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: you know, I feel strongly about my views, I understand 142 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: other people feel strongly about theirs. And once you stop, 143 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: once it gets so loud, all the shouting and the 144 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: sort of living in an echo chamber, that's when things 145 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: really become problematic. So it's very important to have, you know, 146 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: to be I mean the number of communities that the 147 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 1: small community newspapers that don't exist anymore, the number that 148 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: have closed down. It's just it's very disheartening, and I 149 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,439 Speaker 1: don't think it's healthy for our society or for the demoocracy. 150 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: And they've been yeah, gobbled up by larger entities. Basically 151 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: some of them don't have them anything, right, yeah, right, 152 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: I mean it's unbelievable. And you know, Tip O'Neill was 153 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: the one who said all news is local, and he's 154 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 1: absolutely right. And I will say so, I never read 155 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: the Herald before I went to work there. I grew 156 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: up in a household where we got the Boston Globe, 157 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, and that 158 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: was it. And so I went to work for the Herald, 159 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: and there was this attitude, you know, there was a 160 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: sort of intellectual you know, sort of you know, academic 161 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: attitude that the Herald was not quite up to snuff. Well, 162 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 1: I will tell you at the time, and still I 163 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: think to this day, the Herald breaks local news because 164 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: the person who's you know, emptying the waste paper baskets 165 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 1: in the State House isn't a Globe breader necessarily, They're 166 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: probably a Herald reader and if they come across something 167 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: incriminated or you know, something, they're going to go to 168 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: the Herald with that information. So we broke really really 169 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: important local news stories. And the people who worked at 170 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: the Herald were just incredible journalists, you know. And this 171 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: idea that, you know, the sort of high and mighty 172 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: idea that the Herald was not, you know, that it 173 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: was a tabloid or that it wasn't a good newspaper, 174 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: absolute nonsense. My days there. We broke you know, the 175 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: Charles Stewart story, which was, you know, a terrible murder situation. 176 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: We broke locker Bee. I think I was one of 177 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: the first people to know about the locker Bee explosion 178 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: the plane only because I was working overnight and the 179 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 1: phone call came from nov It came from the Canadian 180 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: the Canadian whatever it is, the equivalent of the Coast 181 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: Guard or whatever. Yeah, and I answered the phone and 182 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: they were like, there's been a plane, uh, you know 183 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 1: over Scotland that was headed for you know. And and 184 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: I was one of the first people in the United 185 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:10,119 Speaker 1: States to know about it. Wow, you remember exactly that? God? Yeah, yeah, 186 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: I was close enough in age too. There was a 187 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: lot of kids coming back from semesters abroad, and so 188 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: I was still close enough to that age, and I 189 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: knew people who had siblings on the plane. Oh my god. 190 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 1: So yeah, it was crazy. So but there were a 191 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: lot of things like that. And I'll never forget the 192 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 1: reporter's name. Her name was Michelle Caruso, and she's gone 193 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: on to do amazing things, and she was an amazing reporter, 194 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: the most dogged. But she came back in as soon 195 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: as the Charles Stewart story when he was a man 196 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: who he his wife was pregnant. They were supposedly coming 197 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: from a leman's class and he said that they were carjacked. 198 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 1: He said the guy was African American and that he 199 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: had killed the wife who was pregnant and shot him 200 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: and he was shot like in the leg. And we 201 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,079 Speaker 1: were all in the newsroom when she came back from 202 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: the initial press briefing or whatever it was, and she 203 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: said he did it. And we were like, oh my god, 204 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: You're so cynical. That is the sickest thing I've ever heard. 205 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: And she said, I just I think he did it. Wow. 206 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 1: And I don't know how much later, it was probably 207 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: weeks or it could have even been months. He you know, 208 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: they determined that he was the killer and that it 209 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 1: was a whole setup, and he threw himself from the 210 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: Toven bridge. Yes, well that unbelievable story. Wow, but yeah, 211 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: I just remember thinking, oh my god, Michelle, that's so sick. 212 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: Who would ever like that's like the darkest thing. And 213 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 1: turns out she was right right right, we'll paint this 214 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: picture right now, Jonathan. This is so beautiful and there's 215 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: actually on a near one hundred degree day, there's actually 216 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: a little breeze coming off here because of all the 217 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 1: shade trees. Look at these unbelievable weaping willows and oaks, 218 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: and I don't even I'm not good at identifying trees, 219 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: but that's what I was talking about before. You know, 220 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: when this place was originally designed and built, the people 221 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: who built it were never going to see it reached 222 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 1: this point of incredible beauty. These are all, you know, 223 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 1: little saplings. They certainly didn't throw this kind of shade. 224 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: And you know, the who you know who knew that 225 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 1: this was going to be that it was, I don't know, 226 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy seven. I think when when they or no, sorry, 227 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: you know what I don't know the date, but whenever 228 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: the Swan boats started. I mean, there's nothing more iconically 229 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 1: Boston than those swan boats. I mean, look at that. 230 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: It's magnificent. It is. I just don't know how the 231 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 1: drivers do it. They're all pedaling those things, right, these 232 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: are pedal boats. It's so good to see them back, right. Yeah. So, 233 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 1: and the same family, I believe it's I believe that 234 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: the Paget family still owns the concession for the swan boats. 235 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: That's awesome. And they've had since the inception. That's awesome. 236 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 1: My god. So then after the Herald, you went to 237 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: Improper Bostonian. So yeah, So I was at the Herald 238 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: for about four years until the early nineties, and then 239 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: an old copy editor from the Herald, she had gone 240 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: to work for this completely crazy, scrappy nobody's ever heard 241 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: of it, slapped together publication called the Improper Bostonian, and 242 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: she they were looking for someone to do a social column, 243 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: and because I had done the nightlife column, I kind 244 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: of had the sort of feel for it. And you know, 245 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 1: I at the time, I think I was freelancing, and 246 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: freelancing is a tough thing to make a living doing 247 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: and so they called me and they said, do you 248 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: want to do this? And I said absolutely, And I 249 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: was still freelancing, but it was a regular gig. And 250 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: that was thirty years ago now, because we were in 251 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: publication for twenty We shut down in twenty nineteen, but 252 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: that was in the early nineties and I started out. 253 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: It was tabloid format, unbound news print, black and white, 254 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: and then slowly we went to color. Slowly as we grew, 255 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:24,239 Speaker 1: we went to perfect bound, then we went to glossy, 256 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: and we had a good twenty something years as a 257 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: really gorgeous magazine. And the last issue we printed was 258 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 1: as nice as was as good as any issue we 259 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: ever printed. There was never a decline, and I'm really 260 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: proud of that. And a lot of people say, you know, oh, 261 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: I missed the Improper, and the Improper was so great. 262 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: It's absolutely I do too. It was the most fun 263 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: thing ever and I'm very proud of it. But we 264 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: had a twenty eight year run. It's amazing. Yeah, most 265 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: magazines don't get twenty eight issues. We put out two 266 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: issues a month for twenty eight years. That's incredible. Yeah, 267 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: it was. It was a hell of a feat. Is 268 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: it fair? To say, as I observed this, I observed 269 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: you really finding your voice and your style and your 270 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: rhythm in terms of, you know, your brand during that run, 271 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: because they gave you a lot of rope to hang yourself. Yeah. 272 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: They gave me like basically do anything. Yeah, I mean, 273 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: and we got away with a lot of We wrote 274 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: some out we published some outrageous things that were just hilarious. 275 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: We were always there was a period where we did 276 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: some hard news, but we quickly got away from that 277 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: and really concentrated on arts and entertainment and the cultural 278 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: life and sort of the social life of the city, 279 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: which there was nobody really reporting on that, and if 280 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: they did, they were doing it in a way that 281 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: was very kind of you know, journalism school, Who, what, where, why? 282 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: And when? We were doing it in a very cheeky, irreverent, 283 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: snarky way. So I started doing social column. And then 284 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,199 Speaker 1: my editor, Nancy Gaines, who's brilliant, brilliant editor, and she 285 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: was one of the people really responsible for making The 286 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: Improper grow into what it became. She said, I think 287 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,400 Speaker 1: you're really good at interviewing people, and so she gave 288 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: me another column, but I did the Social column. But 289 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 1: then she did this. She came up with the idea 290 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: soar off on and it was an interview in every issue, 291 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: and I interviewed everyone from I mean, yeah, let's talk 292 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 1: about some of your favorites are well. So when people 293 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: say the favorites, like, the favorites that come to mind 294 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 1: are the ones who are gone now, like the Julia 295 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 1: Child who I had like a friendly acquaintance with and 296 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: she was amazing. Yeah, Maya Angelou, Mike Wallace, like these 297 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: tremendous art buckwall these people who were giants in their fields. 298 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: Who are you know, who are no longer with us. 299 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 1: But then on the other end of the spectrum where 300 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: the people where I was like, oh, they're going on 301 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: the cover and they're twenty three years old and they've 302 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: done one TV show, what could they possibly have to say? 303 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 1: And then I talked to them and we'd end up 304 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,119 Speaker 1: becoming friends because I would prejudge them and say, oh, 305 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:12,959 Speaker 1: they have nothing to say, and they were ended up 306 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: being really cool, fun, fascinating people. So it's yeah, I 307 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 1: mean everybody from you know, and it was just fun 308 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,399 Speaker 1: because again they let me, you know, they gave me 309 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:27,159 Speaker 1: the rope to hang myself with. I would ask outrageous questions. 310 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: There was I forget. I think it might have been 311 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 1: one of the guys from Baywatch, David Chokichi, who is 312 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: still a friend. I think my first question too in 313 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: the interview was so you want to make out? And 314 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: there's nothing like getting to the point right. It could 315 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 1: have gone either way. He just laughed and he was like, yeah, 316 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,400 Speaker 1: but my wife might might not like that. But they 317 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 1: allowed me to ask these questions that were kind of 318 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 1: just off the wall, and I think that's what people 319 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: gravitated to be because I would just kind of ask 320 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 1: these questions that in a million years, you know, another 321 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: publication would say, what the hell are you asking these people? 322 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: Like this is crazy? And people really really ate it 323 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:16,400 Speaker 1: up and the subjects. I'll never forget doing an interview 324 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: he was doing. He was promoting a movie, but Matt 325 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,160 Speaker 1: Damon and we were the first magazine that really gave 326 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 1: Matt Damon and Ben Affleck any attention before Goodwittle Hunting. 327 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: And I did an interview Matt with Matt Damon, and 328 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 1: when I turned off the recorder, he said, that was 329 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: the most fun interview I've done all day, or I've 330 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 1: ever done. And I was like, why didn't I get 331 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 1: that on? And I've had I've had several I'm lucky 332 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,680 Speaker 1: enough to have several people say that to me, it's awesome. 333 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: Who did you learn from in terms of your interview style? 334 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 1: I didn't. I learned on the job. I learned on 335 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: the go. I'm still learning. And sure there were people. 336 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: There were there were two or three people who shut 337 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: it down because they were like, this is not what 338 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:06,199 Speaker 1: I was expecting, this is not and you know, fine, 339 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:12,199 Speaker 1: but that happened over thirty years, very very rarely. So. 340 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: Then ultimately you've migrated over to Boston Magazine, another enduring publication. Yeah, 341 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: Boston Magazine. So are you having fun? Yeah? I love it. 342 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: It's a very different beast because it's a bigger magazine. 343 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: The culture is much more corporate. I have like more 344 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: than one editor. I have fact checkers who will ask 345 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: me things like, you know, I did a travel piece 346 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: about an island in the in the Caribbean, and they said, 347 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:48,199 Speaker 1: I got this email. I can't I can't confirm anywhere that. 348 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 1: On the boat ride from the airport to the hotel, 349 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: they give you a rum drink and I was like, ah, 350 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: I don't know what to tell you. I had a 351 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: rum drink on the boat, like that's as good as 352 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: it's going to get. So yeah, I mean it's it's 353 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: a very different beast, but at the same time it's reassuring, 354 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 1: reassuringly familiar, and it's just a great an amazing staff, 355 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: and I think the magazine looks great. We had our 356 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: big party last night, our best at Boston party, and 357 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: it was amazing. Oh that's great. No, where was the party. 358 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,360 Speaker 1: It was in the seaport at one of the old 359 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: cruise ship terminals, and a lot of the winners, the 360 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: restaurants provided food, there was you know, all the a 361 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: lot of the advertisers provided you know, beer and wine 362 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,640 Speaker 1: and liquor. And it was just a great crowd. And 363 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: people are so excited to win an award like that. 364 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: And it's funny because I only you know, it's a 365 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 1: big issue. And we did a competing one which we 366 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 1: kind of tried to steal Boston Magazine thunder when I 367 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: was at the Improper and when we started it, I 368 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: wrote the whole thing by myself, which was a beast. 369 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: And this time, you know, I just contribute like a 370 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,959 Speaker 1: very very tiny bit. But all these people who I 371 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 1: had nothing to do with it. Are sending me thank 372 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: you emails and messages, texts saying thank you for the 373 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: Best Boston award, And I'm like, I had nothing to 374 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 1: do with it, But you're welcome now as somebody who 375 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: has his finger on the pulse of the community, you know, 376 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: thinking of how horrible it's been the last few years, 377 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,719 Speaker 1: what's the current vibe of you know, the restaurants and 378 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: you know, entertainment these days. I think it is rebounding 379 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: and it's going to be bigger than ever. I think 380 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 1: that we're entering the roaring twenties. If there's such a 381 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:52,120 Speaker 1: thirst for especially after the pandemic, to get out and 382 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: to go out to dinner or to go see a 383 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,160 Speaker 1: movie or a play, or the opera or the ballet 384 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: or the symphony. I mean. And the thing about this 385 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 1: city and one of the things that makes me proud, 386 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 1: so proud to be from here. We're tiny. It's a 387 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 1: tiny little city. We punch so above our way. If 388 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 1: you're a music fan, first of all, you have the 389 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,679 Speaker 1: Boston Symphony Orchestra, which the Hall is one of the 390 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: world's two acoustically perfect concert halls, with one of the 391 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: world's greatest symphony orchestras. That's one end of the spectrum. 392 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: Then you have the schools like the New England Conservatory, 393 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: Jordan Hall. Anybody, any city in the world would be 394 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: proud to call the students who perform in that hall 395 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:41,640 Speaker 1: their symphony orchestra. Then at the absolute other end of 396 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: the of the spectrum Emmanual Church on Newberry Street. It's 397 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: a beautiful, you know, Neo Gothic church, Episcopalian. They're one 398 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: of the few churches, I think maybe two churches in 399 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: the world that perform box liturgical music in the order, 400 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:03,439 Speaker 1: in liturgical order, and it magnificent. And that's just classical music. 401 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,439 Speaker 1: You know. I'm on the board of Boston Ballet and 402 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: we are one of the world's elite ballet companies. We are, 403 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 1: you know. The Museum of Fine Arts is an encyclopedic 404 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: art museum. The Isabella Stuart Gardner Museum is one of 405 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,400 Speaker 1: the best house museums in the world. The Nicholson House 406 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:25,160 Speaker 1: Museum on Beacon Hill is fascinating glimpse of Victorian era, 407 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 1: you know, America. And you have all these things in 408 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: this tiny little city and it's like you can walk 409 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 1: from one side of the city to the other in 410 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: I don't know an hour or two, but you have 411 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:43,159 Speaker 1: everything in the world, tremendous walking city is one of 412 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:47,400 Speaker 1: those great joys obviously, and we're taking a walk, but yeah, 413 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: the neighborhoods, obviously, it's just so unique. So you know, 414 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 1: from the outside, if you were speaking to someone who 415 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 1: isn't a Bostonian and would try to address any bad 416 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: raps Boston has, what would you say to them? So 417 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 1: I think that people have a very outdated notion about 418 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: what this city is. In the early twenty first century, 419 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 1: this city is leading the way. It's not accidental that 420 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: the coronavirus vaccine was you know, we're less than two 421 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 1: miles away from where it was invented. This city is 422 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: not people think it's a racist city. Yes we have 423 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,199 Speaker 1: our problems, and yes race is still an issue in 424 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: this city, but we have come so far from the 425 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: days of bussing. It is a much more diverse, much 426 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: more inclusive, much more eclectic city than it was then. 427 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,919 Speaker 1: And it's also growing like a mushroom. I mean, the 428 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 1: whole seaport district that didn't exist fifteen years ago. That 429 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 1: was a bunch of you know, train yards, and cruise 430 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: ship terminals and docks, and now you have this incredibly 431 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 1: vibrant neighborhood. It's just not what people. It's not stodgy 432 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,920 Speaker 1: old Boston. This is not your grandfather's Boston. It's very 433 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: it's very much a city of the twenty first century 434 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: and becoming more of one every day. Well. I have 435 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: another take also on the racism piece, which of course 436 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:24,159 Speaker 1: it exists here, it exists others, it exists everywhere. But 437 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: I wanted to get your reaction to this. I think 438 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 1: part of the problem is we have We're an amazing 439 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:35,399 Speaker 1: sports city, obviously with completely crazy passionate fans, and I 440 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: didn't even mention that part. I'm not a big sports fan, 441 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 1: that's the only reason. But sure, But I think part 442 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:45,640 Speaker 1: of the you know, perception issue as well is if 443 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 1: you watch the games, there's generally not many people of 444 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:54,120 Speaker 1: color in the stands, and I think, you know, in general, 445 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,440 Speaker 1: isn't it harder for anybody, the common person, whether they 446 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: be black or white, to afford to go to these games? Well, 447 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,920 Speaker 1: I think that's a huge I mean, that's that speaks 448 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 1: to you know, inequities and you know, built in inequities 449 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: and in general yeah, and systemic problems, but yes, and 450 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 1: the people you know who can't afford. But I think 451 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 1: that's changing. I did an interview within the last six months, 452 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,879 Speaker 1: I think unless time is with Tommy Amaker, who he 453 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 1: and I were at Duke. I was a Duke when 454 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,360 Speaker 1: he was playing for Duke and he's now the head 455 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: coach at Harvard. And one of my questions for him was, 456 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 1: you know, he grew up in either Baltimore or Virginia, 457 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 1: like near the the DC area. Uh. And you know, 458 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: one of the things that I asked in was do 459 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: you have you and your wife found, you know, Boston 460 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:50,439 Speaker 1: to be as racist as people, you know say, And 461 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,919 Speaker 1: he was like, absolutely not. We have had nothing but 462 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: a wonderful experience. Maybe that's an anomaly, maybe it's not, 463 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: but yeah, the perception, I think perception and reality really diverge, 464 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 1: and some of it is optics because you know, who 465 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,880 Speaker 1: can afford to go to who can afford I mean, 466 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,199 Speaker 1: I know what my brother pays for a season tickets 467 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: to the Red Sox. It's crazy. But then again, you know, 468 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: if you really love the Red Sox, if you really 469 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 1: love the Celtics, if you really love you're going to 470 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,880 Speaker 1: go see them. No matter what you'll you'll figure out 471 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: a way. I think I heard the other day the 472 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: average price for a family afford to go to the 473 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: Red Sox game is three hundred and forty five dollars 474 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: or some such thing. So I mean that's an expensive 475 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: absolutely right out. But it's an amazing place to go 476 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 1: see a game, obviously for sure. So yeah, in closing, 477 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 1: I want to come back to the notion that you 478 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: put up about this beautiful place that we've been fortunate 479 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: to take a walk, and how it's a bad mood 480 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: altering place, which I love, right and really I can 481 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: identify with that. What other place in the Boston area 482 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: have that same effect? Oh, I think there's so many. 483 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: I would say the Isabella Stuart Gardner Museum has that effect. 484 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: I think if you walk along the waterfront, the pathway 485 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: along the Harbor, I think that sitting and drinking coffee 486 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: in the North End. I think that just walking down 487 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: the Commonwealth Avenue Mall, going to you know, going to 488 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: see something at the Strand Theater, going to Franklin Park. 489 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: My nephews were at the Zoo last week and they 490 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 1: were like, you know, their heads exploded. They were so happy. 491 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: There's just so many everywhere in the city there is 492 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: something absolutely amazing and you know, I just really love it. 493 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: You know, just walking down walking down any street in 494 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: this city, you're going to come across something that's going 495 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 1: to surprise you, delight you, and sort of leave you 496 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: with the feeling of Wow, this place is really really cool. 497 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: And Newbury Street, my god, play the greatest walking cities. 498 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: We're right near. Discovered it in the last few years, 499 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 1: the new Newbury Hotel where the old Ritz Carlton was, 500 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: with that amazing restaurant up there, Contessa, which I better 501 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: get in line of six months in advance. But a 502 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 1: sensational take and beautiful building, beautiful staff. Well full disclosure. 503 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 1: I'm on the board of advisors for the trustees of 504 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: the Reservations, but we are we're creating a park on 505 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 1: the waterfront in East Boston. And if you haven't been 506 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 1: to East Boston to the waterfront in a while, it's magnificent. 507 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: If you haven't been to Nubian Square in Roxbury in 508 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 1: a long time, it is unbelievable. If you haven't checked 509 00:30:55,040 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: out the cool shops in JP and Roslindale, unbelievable. Like 510 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: you think that you're in like a cool, weird neighborhood 511 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 1: in London, or like the groovy place in Brooklyn. It's 512 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: just incredible. I love it. I love it well. I'm 513 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 1: so grateful that you and I got to take a walk. 514 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: It would not be a special Boston edition if it 515 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: didn't have your stamp on it and your insights and 516 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: your passion for this wonderful place. And thank you for 517 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: all the things, the great work over the years. Okay, 518 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: last question, who that you haven't interviewed? Do you really 519 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: want to interview? Oh? That's funny. Right now, I'm waiting 520 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: and I think I have interviewed him in the past, 521 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 1: but I'm waiting for Steven Tyler's publicists to get back 522 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 1: to me about whether or not I'm going to interview him. 523 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: I'm not sure I'm supposed to say that. But I 524 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 1: actually have a funny story because Ben Affleck, I've never 525 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: actually interviewed him. I've interviewed his brother and he told 526 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,959 Speaker 1: me that he has the cover from The Improper and 527 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: it framed in his office in la And he came 528 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: here to do a screening of one of his movies, 529 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: and I left before I got to the party. Afterwards, 530 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: when it was just him and his assistant and his 531 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: publicist and I walked in and I said, Jesus Christ Affleck, 532 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: I wasn't sure you had it in you. And he 533 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: was like, that's really wonderful to hear. Thank you. And 534 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 1: he said something about the interview that I had done 535 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: with Casey and I said yeah, and I said, you've 536 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: never been on our cover and he said why is that? 537 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: And I was like, I don't know. We've tried a 538 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: million times. I just don't know. And so there are 539 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: a couple of big Boston icons. I'm not sure I've 540 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: ever I've interviewed the rest of the Wahlbergs. I'm not 541 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: sure I've ever interviewed Mark. I've interviewed. Yeah, there aren't 542 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 1: that many people. And I'm really thankful for the sort 543 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 1: of the iconic Boston people who I have. But you know, 544 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: they're one or two who have slipped through the net. 545 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: But I'll get to him eventually. I love it. Don't 546 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: give up, right, Yeah, thank you Jonathan for taking a walk. 547 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: Thank you. Taking a Walk with Buzznight is available on Spotify, 548 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.