WEBVTT - Manchin Likely Just Put an End to Big Climate Bills

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<v Speaker 1>Today we're gonna be talking about arguably the most hated

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<v Speaker 1>man in the world among environmentalists, at least at the

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<v Speaker 1>moment right now, the senior Senator from West Virginia, Democrat

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<v Speaker 1>Joe Mansion. He all but killed the president's last hopes

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<v Speaker 1>were passing a big climate bill, and will explain how

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<v Speaker 1>and why. Hello and welcome back yet again two Parts

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<v Speaker 1>per Billion, the Environmental podcast from Bloomberg Law. I'm your host,

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<v Speaker 1>David Schultz. So today is gonna be a Capitol Hill episode.

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<v Speaker 1>Perhaps you've heard, but Senator Mansion said earlier this month,

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<v Speaker 1>last week actually that he won't support the climate provisions

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<v Speaker 1>within the President's Build Back Better legislative package. Mansion said,

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<v Speaker 1>the latest inflation numbers make it unwise right now for

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<v Speaker 1>Congress to increase the deficit. This was a huge blow,

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<v Speaker 1>of course, because Mansion is the fiftieth and thus most

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<v Speaker 1>powerful Democrat in the Senate. Without him, the party can't

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<v Speaker 1>really pass hardly anything. It was also a bitter pill

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<v Speaker 1>for the president because this is not the first time

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<v Speaker 1>Mansion has come out against the President's climate legists Lasian.

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<v Speaker 1>In fact, Democrats had already scaled back their ambitions in

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<v Speaker 1>an effort to accommodate Mansion, an effort that now appears

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<v Speaker 1>to have failed. Environmentalists are not happy to put it mildly,

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<v Speaker 1>but the center managine of a point. Is he just

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<v Speaker 1>tanking this legislation because of his famous affection for the

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<v Speaker 1>coal industry or is he really that concerned about inflation.

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<v Speaker 1>We're gonna get into all of that with Ari Natter,

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<v Speaker 1>a Bloomberg News reporter who covers energy on Capitolol Hill

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<v Speaker 1>and who coincidentally is a proud Bloomberg law alum. I

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<v Speaker 1>started off by asking Ari, what was actually in the

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<v Speaker 1>legislation that Mansion effectively quashed last week? Right? Well, um,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, initially it was a lot bigger before mentioned

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<v Speaker 1>killed it the first time. But the remaining package what

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<v Speaker 1>was been negotiated include a whole slow of tax credits

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<v Speaker 1>and we're talking to something like three billion dollars and

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<v Speaker 1>tax credits for phicles and renewables and advanced emergy manufacturing

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<v Speaker 1>and carbon capture. And that was where the start of

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<v Speaker 1>the show in terms of climate and that would have

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<v Speaker 1>reduced the missions. So it sounds like it was, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>mainly using the tax code to to try to accomplish

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<v Speaker 1>this Yeah, that's what was was pretty much left and

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<v Speaker 1>and a lot of the stuff that had initially been

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<v Speaker 1>in the package, you know, some pretty state fees on

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<v Speaker 1>new drilling infrastructure for instance. You know, got um you know,

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<v Speaker 1>put in the waist bin. But yeah, the text there

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<v Speaker 1>really there, really were going to marshal the tax code. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>It sounds like it would have had some pretty significant

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<v Speaker 1>emission reductions. So let's now get to the second death blow. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what happened this month? Um? So Senator Mansion

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<v Speaker 1>said he was not ready to vote for this um

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<v Speaker 1>and obviously the Democrats need him to pass anything. Can

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<v Speaker 1>you explain what happened and why he is opposing this? Sure? Yeah, So,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean after months of negotiating on these climate revisions,

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<v Speaker 1>including the tax measures. Um, you know, the new inflation

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<v Speaker 1>figures came out that's inflation at nine point one percent

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<v Speaker 1>and mentioned informed leadership it won't support any new climate spending,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, only you know, a smaller package that would

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<v Speaker 1>be limited to the A C, A and prescription drug prices.

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<v Speaker 1>So that effectively killed the climate package in the in

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<v Speaker 1>the deal. So you know, I think a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>people who are listening probably know that Senator Mansion represents

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<v Speaker 1>West Virginia, which is a big coal state. He also

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<v Speaker 1>has personal ties to the coal industry. So I think

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<v Speaker 1>some people are assuming that he's doing this because he,

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<v Speaker 1>you know it, is wanting to to sort of protect

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<v Speaker 1>the coal industry. But that's not what he said. He

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<v Speaker 1>said he's he's you know, opposing this for inflation reasons.

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<v Speaker 1>What's going on? I mean, we can't get inside his head,

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<v Speaker 1>but uh, why do you think he is really sort

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<v Speaker 1>of taking this move now right? I don't think it's

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<v Speaker 1>as simple as um simply supporting his homestead call industry. Personally,

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<v Speaker 1>I do think he was concerned about inflation and he

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<v Speaker 1>hasn't ring the alarm bell uh for some time. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>And also he hasn't the power where he could. He's

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<v Speaker 1>really a position to get some stuff that would help

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<v Speaker 1>his industry, and he had. I mean, they were very

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<v Speaker 1>generous subsidies for carbon capture that would have saved and

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<v Speaker 1>provide coal plants billions of billions of dollars. Shouldn't was

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<v Speaker 1>ready to give him um tax credits for hydrogen vehicles, um,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, on par with the generous tax credits for

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<v Speaker 1>electric vehicles. So I mean if Manchel wanted to do this.

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<v Speaker 1>He really, I mean, he really could have helped you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the coal industry too, you know, much of the shrigment

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<v Speaker 1>of progressives. So I do think I do believe that

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<v Speaker 1>he was concerned about inflation. That's really interesting. So basically

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<v Speaker 1>sort of too to put it in another way, like

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<v Speaker 1>you know, do voting on this package would have actually

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<v Speaker 1>helped the coal industry in its state. Yeah, that's that's accurate. Mansion. Actually, well,

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<v Speaker 1>he didn't technically say this plan is dead. He just

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<v Speaker 1>said he wanted to wait until after the August recess

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<v Speaker 1>to see what inflation is looking like then. But is

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<v Speaker 1>it basically dead? I mean, is there any chance that

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<v Speaker 1>something climate related will be able to pass in September

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<v Speaker 1>whence they come back from the recess. I know some Democrats,

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<v Speaker 1>some climate hats, are holding out hope for that, but

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think that's going to be possible. Um, it's

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<v Speaker 1>just gonna be too hard to do a second reconciliation

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<v Speaker 1>bill in the time they have. Um I've required, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of time, and these these all night vote

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<v Speaker 1>aramas they have to pass a new budget resolution. So um,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I don't I don't think that's going to happen.

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<v Speaker 1>And um, you know a lot of senators I've talked to, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know Merkley from Oregon for instance, and he's he's

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<v Speaker 1>pretty much said, flat out dead. Well, let's let's take

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<v Speaker 1>a step back there though, and talk about reconciliation. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean a lot of people listening may not be

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<v Speaker 1>totally familiar with the Capitol Hill lingo. Uh, this is

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<v Speaker 1>a maneuver on Capitol Hill where you can pass a

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<v Speaker 1>bill without by avoiding the sixty vote filibuster threshold. Can

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<v Speaker 1>you get into a little bit why they need the

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<v Speaker 1>Democrats need to use reconciliation and how that works right, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>like you said, so this is a chance to get

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<v Speaker 1>around that sixty vote thresholders that they don't have and

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<v Speaker 1>evenly split fifty fifty. So this is their one chance

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<v Speaker 1>so they can get all of the Democrats on board

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<v Speaker 1>to actually get some major major legislation done. But um,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's also why they need Mansion, That's why it's

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<v Speaker 1>so powerful in this And it sounds like there's no

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<v Speaker 1>chance that they would hold off on doing reconciliation until

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<v Speaker 1>after the recess. That's just a no go. Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>mean Biden put a statement, you know, effectively saying, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>do the do the healthcare stuff and the prescription dug

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<v Speaker 1>drug stuff. They need to get a win on on board,

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<v Speaker 1>and even if it's smaller before the mid term elections

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<v Speaker 1>and they go back for their August reassessed to campaign

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<v Speaker 1>and so I mean they're pretty much in a position

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<v Speaker 1>of doing this or nothing. Yeah, that makes sense. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>let's get to the future now. Um, you know clearly

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<v Speaker 1>this is not going to happen these big tax breaks

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<v Speaker 1>for climate um you know, as you mentioned, or it's

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<v Speaker 1>all but dead, if not dead. Is there any climate

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<v Speaker 1>legislation that Democrats can pass before the end of this

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<v Speaker 1>session of Congress, like even sort of smaller stuff, piecemeal stuff,

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<v Speaker 1>or is is this over until you know January of

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<v Speaker 1>next year for climate? The actually is, David, there's something

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<v Speaker 1>called the Amendment UM. This would have the US join

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<v Speaker 1>international Pact to phase down the use of hfc's, which

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<v Speaker 1>are kind of a super pollutants. They are used in

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<v Speaker 1>refrigeration and other equipment and that actually have a major,

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<v Speaker 1>major um reduction in emissions. I think Energy See has

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<v Speaker 1>said it's something like, uh, there's seventy billion um. So

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<v Speaker 1>I mean that that would be a big deal and

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<v Speaker 1>a win for climate and um, you know that measures

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<v Speaker 1>past the Form Relations Committee, so it's poised to go

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<v Speaker 1>over the floor. Um, you know when they want to

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<v Speaker 1>do that. Yeah, and that's really interesting. It's you know,

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<v Speaker 1>unlike with the fossil fuel industry, the HFC industry is

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<v Speaker 1>not nearly as powerful, doesn't have as many lobbyists in Washington.

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<v Speaker 1>So it seems like it's you know, a lot more

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<v Speaker 1>viable to to get that across than something that that

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<v Speaker 1>hurts the fossil fuel industry. Right. Yeah, I mean there

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<v Speaker 1>actually are you know, opponents of the amendment, but yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's a by Parson. It has enough by Parson

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<v Speaker 1>support where the past Yeah, and then let's look to

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<v Speaker 1>next year. Um. And the reason why I wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>get into that is because, you know, after Mansion announced

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<v Speaker 1>that he wouldn't be supporting this, I was, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>watching social media, and there was just widespread despair among

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<v Speaker 1>climate activists and environmental activists. I mean, it's pretty bleak.

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<v Speaker 1>Can we talk about why? Um? It seems like the

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<v Speaker 1>next few months or maybe even the next few weeks

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<v Speaker 1>are really the only opportunity to get major climate legislation passed.

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<v Speaker 1>Things are looking bad for next year. Let's talk about that.

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<v Speaker 1>Why is it now or never for climate? Yeah? So,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean if Republicans take control of Congress, which it

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<v Speaker 1>seems like they're placed to do, you know, never say never,

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<v Speaker 1>But I mean that's the direction seems like it's going. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I don't think a major in a climate

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<v Speaker 1>package is going to happen. But um, Also, Republicans do

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<v Speaker 1>have their own um climate legislation now that they're pushing

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<v Speaker 1>that doesn't set a mission reduction targets per se um. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>tell me more about that. What is the Republican climate agenda? Right? So,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean the Republican climate agenda is things like innovation

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<v Speaker 1>and R and D spending and nuclear and carbon capture. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's also you know, promoting natural gas and grounds

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<v Speaker 1>that it has a lower emissions profile than call and

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<v Speaker 1>if it's produced in the US, it might be cleaner

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<v Speaker 1>than other countries that don't have stricter environmental standards for it.

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<v Speaker 1>So um, you know that has been their position and

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<v Speaker 1>has Republicans put out a plan earlier the summer they're

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<v Speaker 1>kind of reiterating that, you know, signing plum in control.

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<v Speaker 1>This is the direction we're gonna go. So it's it's

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<v Speaker 1>not nothing, but you know it's it's now a progressive

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<v Speaker 1>activists either. Yeah, that's right. I know that Senator Barrasso

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<v Speaker 1>in particular from Wyoming um is really really into carbon capture.

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<v Speaker 1>That's something he talks about a lot um and I

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<v Speaker 1>think that, you know, it sounds like that's the Republican

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<v Speaker 1>attitude towards this is, let's you know, develop new technology

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<v Speaker 1>that allows us to keep using fossil fuels, whereas Democrats are,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, saying, let's we not ourselves off of fossil fuels.

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<v Speaker 1>That you know, putting it in a nutshell. The difference

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<v Speaker 1>between the two parties in two right now, that's generally awkward.

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<v Speaker 1>I think, Um, yeah, I mean they want to keep

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<v Speaker 1>using fossil fossil fuels. Um, they say I can do

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<v Speaker 1>it in a clear away. Carbon capture is expensive and um,

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<v Speaker 1>you know has had a lot of technical problems. But

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<v Speaker 1>you know, even the Biden administration is putting a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of money into it. So it's not just like the

0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:14.800
<v Speaker 1>hope that's it's on giving all right, Well that was

0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:18.320
<v Speaker 1>already adder with Bloomberg News talking with us about climate

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<v Speaker 1>legislation in Congress or the lack there. Ari, Thank you

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<v Speaker 1>so much for talking. Thanks David, and that's it for

0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:28.400
<v Speaker 1>today's episode of Parts per Billion. If you want more

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<v Speaker 1>environmental news, check us out on Twitter. We used the

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<v Speaker 1>handle at environment just that environment. I'm at David B. Schultz.

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<v Speaker 1>That's b is in build back, better, build back? Something

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<v Speaker 1>who dons? Today's episode of Parts for Billion was produced

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<v Speaker 1>by myself, David Schultz. Parts for Billion was created by

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<v Speaker 1>Jessica Combs and Rachel Dagle and is edited by Zack S.

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<v Speaker 1>Sherwood and Chuck McCutcheon. Our executive producer is Josh Block.

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