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Speaker 1: On the Dog Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women in them? Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?

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Speaker 1: Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start changing

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Speaker 1: it with the Beck del Cast. Do do Do Do

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Speaker 1: Do Do Do Do Do Do Do keep going do

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Speaker 1: do Do Do do do do do? You know something horrible?

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Speaker 1: But when I was watching this movie, every time, I

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Speaker 1: was expecting the NFL team, you know, the one that's like,

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Speaker 1: it's close enough, there's a lot of brass and it

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Speaker 1: precedes men fighting. That's true. So you're like, but I

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Speaker 1: was like, that's not his song. I was like, actually,

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Speaker 1: in one of the most famous movies of all time,

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Speaker 1: it turns out to do this a song. Hey, everyone,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the Beck dol Caret. Hello, I'm Caitlin Dronte.

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Speaker 1: I'm Jamie Loftus, and here we are for our one

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Speaker 1: hundred episode. This is where you put in the crazy

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Speaker 1: frog music. Cue ding ding ding ding. You know? Okay? Well,

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Speaker 1: oh crazy frog heads, is that there will know? So

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Speaker 1: this is our hundredth episode of the Betel Cast. If

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Speaker 1: this is your first time listening, I'd recommend maybe make

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Speaker 1: this not your first episode. Yeah, because this is our celebration.

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Speaker 1: We're probably gonna be a little more casual. No guests today, guests,

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Speaker 1: we're raw dogging it, baby, because I don't know. We uh,

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Speaker 1: we've been doing We've been doing our hundred episodes almost

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Speaker 1: two years. We've got a lot to reflect on. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and also I have ten pages of notes for this movie.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what would be more fitting. It's the celebrations.

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Speaker 1: You have to take twice as many notes as you

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Speaker 1: normally would. Um, so before we get started, this will

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Speaker 1: probably be a slightly looser episode that you're used to,

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Speaker 1: and it'll just be the two of us, so hopefully

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Speaker 1: you want to hang with us for a little bit.

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Speaker 1: This is like kind of closer to what our bonus

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Speaker 1: episodes are, like yeah so good or Matrion. Yeah, if

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Speaker 1: you like more to chill gals, just kind of tune

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Speaker 1: the ship there. Uh no, actually cut that out. But

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Speaker 1: we do have a movie, like we have a task yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: for the sake of consistency. The Bechdel test was the

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Speaker 1: idea or podcast is built around. It is a media test,

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Speaker 1: a test applied to media, usually to movies and television,

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Speaker 1: that requires there be a scene that has two female

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Speaker 1: characters with names that speak to each other about something

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Speaker 1: other than a man for a total of at least

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Speaker 1: two lines of dialogue. That's our standard. Does it happen frequently? No?

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Speaker 1: Listen on there, you start the demo today. I always,

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Speaker 1: I always initiate the demo. Okay, Hey, Jamie in our episodes,

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Speaker 1: which when's your favorite doubt? Doubt? Uh? That passes? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that passes. What I could have said to make it

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Speaker 1: not passes. John Patrick Shanley what a genius. Okay, I

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Speaker 1: wish All for Melina had been in it, but fortunately

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Speaker 1: Segue Alfred Molina's first major film credit is the movie

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Speaker 1: we're discussing today. It's one of Caitlin's favorites. That's right,

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Speaker 1: Raiders of the Lost Arc. Before we get into it,

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna get a little heartfelt here for a second,

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Speaker 1: and I think this will continue to pass the Bechdel

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Speaker 1: test because I just wanted to say, Jamie, first of all,

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Speaker 1: I've had such a fun time recording. Really it's been.

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Speaker 1: It's technically when you include our bonus Matreon episodes, it's

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Speaker 1: been over a hundred. But of our regular released episodes

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Speaker 1: that are available on you know iTunes, Spotify, wherever you

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Speaker 1: get your podcasts. This is our hundred one. I have

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Speaker 1: had so much fun talking and laughing with you. When

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Speaker 1: you track our progress from episode one two now, it's

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Speaker 1: there's so many different categories of progress. Oh my gosh. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's I feel like there's like progress of like our

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Speaker 1: understanding of talking about gender and blind spots that I

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Speaker 1: think we definitely had two years ago that we're working

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Speaker 1: on more now. And there's also the very heartwarming I

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Speaker 1: think track of like we've gotten like mentions of this

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Speaker 1: from listeners before, like you can sort of tell the

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Speaker 1: point where we become like really good friends, and that

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Speaker 1: warms my heart too. There's so many I love you, really,

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Speaker 1: we're glad that we do this. Me too. Fun. I

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Speaker 1: have so much fun with it, and I learned ship

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Speaker 1: all the time. I genuinely think that like doing this

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Speaker 1: show and having like the need to like I mean

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Speaker 1: for us, especially like to watch media critically or we're

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Speaker 1: not doing our job correctly has informed like everything else

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Speaker 1: that I do, and just sort of a general way

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Speaker 1: of perceiving the world in the past two years has

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Speaker 1: has changed. And we didn't I mean, we were talking

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Speaker 1: about this podcast pre election but the fact that our

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Speaker 1: show came out pretty much I think, like maybe a

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Speaker 1: week or two after the election to it's been a

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Speaker 1: doozy of two years in terms of like, I think

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Speaker 1: really discussed that much that now we do. So our

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Speaker 1: conversations we have gotten so much more sophisticated as time

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Speaker 1: goes on. But also we still regularly call into question

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Speaker 1: the consistency of beetlejuice come. So have our conversation has

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Speaker 1: gotten more sophisticated though, and to be fair, but okay

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Speaker 1: for using that example, and you know, I love when

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Speaker 1: we do. I'm already regretting bringing it up. Well, you

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Speaker 1: could think about it in terms of discourse. It took

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Speaker 1: us a whole year to even mentioned beetle juices come

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Speaker 1: because we as a culture simply didn't have the language.

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Speaker 1: It was just embedded so deeply that we assumed that

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Speaker 1: we didn't know what he came and we and it

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Speaker 1: was a taboo. We didn't think about it. It took

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Speaker 1: us a whole year of the podcast, nearly eleven months

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Speaker 1: till October of twenty seventeen to be so bold as

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Speaker 1: to say, does he come dry scaps or wet scaps?

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Speaker 1: And that's why people listen for this exact discourse specifically,

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Speaker 1: and then also just because we are you know, we're

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Speaker 1: bringing up these conversations, giving people the language that they

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Speaker 1: need to discuss come of all genders. Well, most of

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Speaker 1: that conversation, until we started talking about beetle juices come

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Speaker 1: most of it past the becto tests. So yeah, let's

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Speaker 1: talk about Raiders of the Lost Art. Dude, that's for

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Speaker 1: football soccer. Sorry, that's a soccer. So what is this movie?

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Speaker 1: It stars my least favorite character. I was going to

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Speaker 1: say Alfred Molina, but he's not the star really, I

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Speaker 1: mean in terms of men I respect. The spectrum is

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Speaker 1: represented in the first scene of this movie. Before we

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Speaker 1: get there, Caitlin, please tell me what is your history

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Speaker 1: with Raiders of the Lost Art. I would love to

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Speaker 1: tell you. I would say that I first saw this

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Speaker 1: movie when I was probably nine or ten. All three

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Speaker 1: of the original trilogy of Indiana Jones films were on

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Speaker 1: VHS at my house, and as soon as I discover them,

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Speaker 1: I never looked back. I have seen this movie, probably

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Speaker 1: a good thirty times, I would say, yep, I would

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Speaker 1: say I've seen Last Crusade even more than that, because

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Speaker 1: that is I would still call it my favorite. But

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Speaker 1: I'm beginning to appreciate more and more that Raiders is

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Speaker 1: a better film. Um templea doom I've never been that

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Speaker 1: fond of, and it is not aging well at all.

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Speaker 1: That's also one that the female lead is by far

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Speaker 1: the least strong, right, the least strong, the not to

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Speaker 1: detract from the cause, but the most annoying and the

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Speaker 1: least active. As I've said many times, part of feminism

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Speaker 1: is being able to openly acknowledge when you do not

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Speaker 1: like another one, right yeah, so yeah, definitely the weakest

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Speaker 1: one and until Crystal Skull rears its ugly head in

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Speaker 1: whatever year that was two thousand eight or something like that, which,

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Speaker 1: by the way, was my first date ever boy where

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Speaker 1: I brought like my date, but also my best friend Peter,

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Speaker 1: because I was scared. I know, I know, so basically

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Speaker 1: to some up, I I love this movie. I still

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Speaker 1: love this movie. We will unpack all the reasons that

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Speaker 1: there are to not love parts of this movie, but

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna stand by this movie and say that it

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Speaker 1: is great, even though I already have a good idea

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Speaker 1: of what nipple rating I will give it, and it

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Speaker 1: is not high. But even so, I love this franchise

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Speaker 1: and it is definitely in my top five favorite franchises

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Speaker 1: and movies of all times. So that's where I'm coming from.

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Speaker 1: Cool my history with this movie. I feel like we

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Speaker 1: should have our own Bingo card out for this episode

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Speaker 1: to see it, to make sure we hit all the

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Speaker 1: right notes. This movie saw last night, and then I

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Speaker 1: wasn't going to watch it a second time, but then

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Speaker 1: I was going to go to the d m V

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Speaker 1: this learning, and then I sucked it up, so I

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Speaker 1: just watched it again, watched it twice. Good, good, good,

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Speaker 1: We're growing Yeah, yeah, I did not grow up with

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Speaker 1: this franchise. I also didn't grow up with a Star

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Speaker 1: Wars franchise. I don't know. I don't really know why

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Speaker 1: that was. You would think that I would have encountered it,

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Speaker 1: but I just didn't. We weren't we weren't a big

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Speaker 1: movie household. We weren't a big but we were like

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Speaker 1: a big Disney movie household. We were a big cartoon household,

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Speaker 1: which I think influenced the direction of my life. But

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Speaker 1: we were we were more of a TV household than

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Speaker 1: a movie household. Um, so I just never really watched it.

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Speaker 1: Mostly watched holes, which we should do it upside um,

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Speaker 1: but I never watched it. And then as I grew older,

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Speaker 1: I mean, as as you know about me, action movies

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Speaker 1: just kind of weren't my thing. And then, as I've learned,

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Speaker 1: actually directly via this podcast, Harrison Ford also is very

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Speaker 1: much not my thing, and so I had little incentive

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Speaker 1: to watch this movie until I mean, this movie feels

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Speaker 1: important to do canonically. And I will say I was

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Speaker 1: expecting to come in, you know, just swinging my labia

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Speaker 1: around like loose PASTRAMI being like, I hate this movie,

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Speaker 1: this movie sucks whatever, But I have I have more

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Speaker 1: conflicting feelings about it than I thought. There were parts

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Speaker 1: of this movie that I liked very much. I mean,

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Speaker 1: and by that, I mean I loved the Alfred Molina

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Speaker 1: scene and he's so handsome. Does it pass the Bechtel

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Speaker 1: test if Harrison Ford grabs the front of Alfred Molina's pants? No,

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Speaker 1: it passes the Bechtel test. When Alfred Molina steals from

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Speaker 1: Harrison Ford and leaves him to die, it doesn't pass

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Speaker 1: the Bectel test. But now from Molina dies obviously what

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Speaker 1: a crazy I mean? And I didn't like that was

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Speaker 1: his first movie ever and he's on screen with a

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Speaker 1: huge movie star for a long time. I was like,

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Speaker 1: he's just so gift and he didn't crack under pressure.

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Speaker 1: He gave the performance of a lifetime. He never God,

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Speaker 1: I would like, literally give a finger to see him

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Speaker 1: as Tavia. But yeah, what are you gonna do? So

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Speaker 1: writers of the Lost Arc? So I'll do the recap

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Speaker 1: of the story of Writers of the Lost Arc, because like,

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Speaker 1: not really that much happens. A ton happens. What are

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Speaker 1: you talking about? There are some scenes that go on

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Speaker 1: for a long time, but fun. Okay. So we're in

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Speaker 1: the mid nineteen thirties. We meet Indiana Jones. He is

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Speaker 1: an adventurer who mostly steals sacred artifacts from indigenous cultures.

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Speaker 1: But we love him, love him. I think the greatest

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Speaker 1: piece of acting here is us believing that Harrison Ford

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Speaker 1: could be a teacher. Okay, I know you hate Ford.

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Speaker 1: I not as an individual, I hate his characters. He

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Speaker 1: seems he seems like a perfectly fun guy. So we

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Speaker 1: meet Indiana Jones. We see him trying to take a

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Speaker 1: golden idol from a tribe in South America. But who

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Speaker 1: else is there? Well, Cepedo a k a. Alpha. It's

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Speaker 1: his big day and he recovered in Tarantula's for part

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Speaker 1: of the city. Jeeves is cool and he is you

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Speaker 1: can tell he's like, I'm not sold on this franchise,

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Speaker 1: but I'm a young buck who needs an opportunity. I

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Speaker 1: can see what's going through his head. What if there

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Speaker 1: is maybe there's a universe where he has those tarantulas

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Speaker 1: on him. He gets bitten by one because one of

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Speaker 1: them is radioactive, and that that's what makes him become Doc.

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Speaker 1: I love that. Oh it's like the twenty three Years Sleeper.

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Speaker 1: And then he wakes up one day and he's Doc Doc. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's Cannon. Now that's Cannon. It's as Cannona's dry scaps baby. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So Alfred Molina is there. So is this character named

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Speaker 1: Belloc who is Indiana Jones's rival, and he takes the

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Speaker 1: idol from him because he's friends with the indigenous culture

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Speaker 1: that Indiana Jones is trying to steal from. Then we

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Speaker 1: cut to a classroom because Indiana Jones is also a

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Speaker 1: professor of archaeology. The teacher who can read. Sure, Look,

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Speaker 1: he's an academic, he has he has more degrees than

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Speaker 1: I do. He's wearing glasses. I'm like, this is fucking lazy,

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Speaker 1: but fine, Yeah, Harrison Ford can read and he has glasses. Sure,

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Speaker 1: I only have a master's degree in screenwriting. I don't

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Speaker 1: like to bring it up, but it is from Boston University.

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Speaker 1: He's got a PhD from Chicago. A doctor. He's a doctor,

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Speaker 1: Dr Jones. Doctor I know, and I love anytime someone

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Speaker 1: says doctor Jones. It is the best doctor Jones songs.

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Speaker 1: Mr Jones, what, oh my god? Have you never heard

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Speaker 1: that song? No, it's like the Amy Weinhouse song Me

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Speaker 1: and doctor Chill. Alright. Anyway, So he's at his university,

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Speaker 1: he's teaching the kids about archaeology, and then he gets

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Speaker 1: approached by a couple of army intelligence guys who have

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Speaker 1: intercepted a communicate from the Nazis, and the Nazis are

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Speaker 1: looking for the headpiece to the Staff of Raw, which

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Speaker 1: is a thing that's going to help them find the

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Speaker 1: Ark of the Covenant. It's another piece of indigenous art

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Speaker 1: that Harrison Ford needs to steal so that more evil

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Speaker 1: white guy doesn't get it right, but it's not suggested

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Speaker 1: that perhaps this is something an indigenous adventurer could do.

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Speaker 1: Only Harrison Ford could do it, and in this scene

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Speaker 1: he's the best, and he says things as if he's

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Speaker 1: read a book before. Sure, doctor, look he's got a PhD.

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Speaker 1: And I believe it's Hitler PhD candidates. God damnit. Hitler

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Speaker 1: is looking for the art because he wants to weaponize it,

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Speaker 1: so Indiana Jones has to find it before he does

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Speaker 1: so that that can't happen. So Indiana goes to Nepal

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Speaker 1: to get the headpiece from Marion Ravenwood, which is her dad,

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Speaker 1: her dad, and then yeah, he Indiana Jones learns that

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Speaker 1: her quote he died it was like an old professor

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Speaker 1: of his and he and Maryan have a history which

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Speaker 1: we will talk about, but it was a child. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's there's too much to say now, so we'll get there.

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Speaker 1: So then some Nazis coming to steal the headpiece. They're

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Speaker 1: not successful, so then Marian partners up with Indie by

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Speaker 1: the way, after he immediately comes back triggers her and

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Speaker 1: then burns down her small business. And now they're working together. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So then they go to Tannis, which is a city

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Speaker 1: where the arc is thought to be. They meet up

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Speaker 1: with Indiana's friend Salah, a white guy. Yeah, yep, we'll

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Speaker 1: get there as well. And then they figure out what

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Speaker 1: the markings on the headpiece mean, and then they make

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Speaker 1: sure their staff is the right height because Bellock's staff

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Speaker 1: is too long. They're digging in the wrong place. Oh no,

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Speaker 1: They go to the map room to figure out the

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Speaker 1: right spot to find the arc. So indeed, he starts

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Speaker 1: digging and they find the Well of the Souls, So

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Speaker 1: so they're they're in the Chamber of Secrets and then

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Speaker 1: they find the arc. But Belloc shows up and he's like,

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Speaker 1: that's nine nine nine. So Bellock takes it and he

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Speaker 1: loads it onto a plane and then there's a big

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Speaker 1: fight sequence and then they're like, no, let's put it

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Speaker 1: on a truck. And then there's another big there, like

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Speaker 1: we need to have a battle scene on every mode

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Speaker 1: of transportation or the movie can't end. Have we yet

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Speaker 1: passed the point where Marian is kidnapped? And then Indy

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Speaker 1: shows up and he's like, actually just gonna leave you here. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I glossed over that part. There's a big fight sequence.

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Speaker 1: It's in a market scene. Maryon gets kidnapped and then

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Speaker 1: she thought to have died, and then he right after

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Speaker 1: he figures out the spot where the arc is. He

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Speaker 1: goes into a tent and Maryan is there. She's bound,

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Speaker 1: she's gagged. She's like, get me out of here, and

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Speaker 1: he's like, no, I have to go get an arc curse. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Then she is taken to the Well of the Souls

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Speaker 1: and gets dumped in there with Indiana right and then

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Speaker 1: they have to escape and that's when they go on

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Speaker 1: this wild goose chase of going after the plane and

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Speaker 1: then the trucks, and then they get on a boat.

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Speaker 1: At one point there's some kissing. It's very cool. By

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Speaker 1: the end of the movie that they all end up

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Speaker 1: on this island where Belloc performs this ritual to make

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Speaker 1: sure that the arc works. I guess he's doing a

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Speaker 1: test run before he gives it to Hitler. Shares ghost

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Speaker 1: comes out of it and all their heads exploit their

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Speaker 1: faces melt off. Indiana is like, don't look at it,

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Speaker 1: and then don't like a Shares go and then that

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Speaker 1: is pretty much the movie. Yeah, I I liked it

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Speaker 1: more than I was expecting. Well, I mean, if you

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Speaker 1: like movies like you know, The Mummy or National Treasure,

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Speaker 1: those movies don't exist without this movie. So that's true.

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Speaker 1: And I love National Trushre I know you do. I

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Speaker 1: love the I feel like I've said this a million

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Speaker 1: times too. But the Daylight savings time, plot, plot contrivance, gorgeous, beautiful.

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Speaker 1: Why wasn't there that? I think that's what this well,

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Speaker 1: speaking of time, I think it's time to take a

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Speaker 1: quick break. But then we'll come back and we'll talk

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Speaker 1: more about raiders Do Do Do Anywhere? We're back now, So, um,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot, there's a lot here. This is one

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Speaker 1: of the movies that takes place in a world where

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Speaker 1: women barely exist, says all of early George Lucas. Basically

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Speaker 1: where up until like three years ago, you wouldn't know

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Speaker 1: that George Lucas had really met a woman before, and

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Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, you know, the less evolved

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Speaker 1: he was, the more women would appear. But whatever, this

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Speaker 1: is very much. I mean I think that this is

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Speaker 1: and George Lucas has involved in both projects obviously, but

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Speaker 1: like this is like comparable to Leia in some ways

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Speaker 1: of like we're given one female character she does a

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Speaker 1: lot of stuff. She's relatively active within bounds. I would

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Speaker 1: argue that this movie would never empower Maryan to the

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Speaker 1: point where she didn't need Indy, which I think that

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Speaker 1: in that way, she's kind of a weaker character than La,

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Speaker 1: because I think that, like, it's clear that she would

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Speaker 1: be okay without the guys, but Marian, like, there are

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Speaker 1: clear limitations to what the movie will allow her to

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Speaker 1: do before she's taken captive basically, but there's no one

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Speaker 1: for her to talk to, no one for her to

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Speaker 1: talk to, and yeah, as you said, not that much

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Speaker 1: for her to do more than I was expecting. It's

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Speaker 1: interesting with Mary And there were some points where I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine that this was done super intentionally as

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Speaker 1: like a meta text thing. But for the sake of argument,

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Speaker 1: there are scenes where you know, this is so common

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Speaker 1: in any action movie, where Harrison Ford is tossing her

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Speaker 1: to the side, getting her out of harm's way, throwing

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Speaker 1: her the piles of hay, but then Marian will get

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Speaker 1: up and start fighting again and then help pick her

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Speaker 1: up and toss her away again. And it was interesting

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Speaker 1: because I don't think it was like super intentionally done

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Speaker 1: of like Indiana Jones is very much a typical action

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Speaker 1: hero of like my lady can't get harmed, You're not

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Speaker 1: got to keep her safe. But unlike you know, like

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Speaker 1: Mary Jane Watson caught in a web for the climax

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Speaker 1: of another Alfred Molina classic. Uh, Marian keeps getting up

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Speaker 1: and keeps trying to fight, and and like she has

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Speaker 1: fighting that goes beyond like the standard woman one bunk,

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Speaker 1: one panda the head. Wow, she did it. Like she

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Speaker 1: doesn't have multiple battle victories, Yeah, which I wasn't expecting. Sure,

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Speaker 1: and let's go through them. Let's talk about her sort

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Speaker 1: of role in this story. So and well, before we

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Speaker 1: do that, I just want to kind of give a

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Speaker 1: quick overview of her character. Um. So, when she's introduced

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Speaker 1: on screen, she is beating a man in a drinking contest,

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Speaker 1: so we know she she's not like the other girls,

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Speaker 1: right she We know she can hold her liquor, which

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Speaker 1: is a skill that will pay off later in the movie.

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Speaker 1: So at least that's set up for our specific purpose.

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Speaker 1: We know that she's the daughter of a famous archaeologist

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Speaker 1: and she has traveled the world with him, but she

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Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily seem to have any specific career ambition of

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Speaker 1: her own or interest in archaeology, which is fine, which

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Speaker 1: is fine, but it's a small business owner. But also

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Speaker 1: she doesn't really seem to like that because she says,

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Speaker 1: I'm stuck in this dive. I can't you know, I

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Speaker 1: want to get out of here. And we know that

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Speaker 1: she's had a relationship with Indiana Jones in the past,

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Speaker 1: which is a whole other conversation. I would say, even

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Speaker 1: though she is sort of presented as like not like

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Speaker 1: the other girl's kind of character, I do and I

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Speaker 1: have always admired her for being tough and self sufficient,

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Speaker 1: self sufficient she you know, doesn't take ship from anyone. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know, it's it's pretty surface level. The thing there

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Speaker 1: is like it's weird because again it's like eighties convention

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Speaker 1: of like surface level empowerment. But even the way she's

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Speaker 1: presented of like she is able to sustain a life

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Speaker 1: on her own, but it's not anywhere close to the

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Speaker 1: level of like satisfaction she could get out of life

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Speaker 1: with Indiana je And so there's like a level of

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Speaker 1: like when he arrives and sweeps her off into adventure.

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Speaker 1: It's not that she was waiting for him to show up,

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Speaker 1: but sort of, you know, like like he's definitely the

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Speaker 1: catalyst that turns her world upside down exactly makes it

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Speaker 1: exciting again, which yeah, is it's not great, but I

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Speaker 1: would say overall, she's presented as a smart, capable character

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Speaker 1: who advocates for herself. But the trouble is that the

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Speaker 1: story rarely gives her an opportunity to do anything that

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Speaker 1: has much of an impact on the narrative for the

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Speaker 1: for the time it's coming out. It's not bad, but

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Speaker 1: there's still a lot of shortsightedays around it. I would wonder,

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Speaker 1: like how much of an influence the success of Leah's

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Speaker 1: character had on the way this character was written, because

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Speaker 1: Leiah predates her by a couple of years. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: the first Star Wars movie came out in ninete. This

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Speaker 1: movie came out in one. Okay, So yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: that's good, and that's I mean, her character is more

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Speaker 1: complicated to analyze than I was anticipating. Yeah, because as

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Speaker 1: much as it not like the other girl tropes kind

403
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,919
Speaker 1: of bug me, there at least grounded in this story

404
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Speaker 1: where it skills that she, like you're saying, needs later.

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Speaker 1: I guess this is like the in between level of yes,

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Speaker 1: we are acknowledging that a woman can sustain a life

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Speaker 1: on her own, but she can't truly experience the joy

408
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 1: of life without a man's And then if for taking

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Speaker 1: it all the way back to the Mummy episode. In

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Speaker 1: that movie, we see we see the Rachel wife's character

411
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Speaker 1: having really important knowledge the greatly in fact, the direction

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Speaker 1: of the story which Brendan Fraser needs to be able

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Speaker 1: to carry on with his quest. Whereas in this movie,

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Speaker 1: while she does some things and makes some active choices,

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Speaker 1: there's nothing that she can sure beats that's crucial to

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Speaker 1: the narrative because Indiana Jones has given all of the

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00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 1: necessary information and knowledge and you know, problem solving skills

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Speaker 1: to you know, make all the important moves of the

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Speaker 1: story because he can read. Don't forget Indiana Jones character

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Speaker 1: who canonically can read and has a doctorate. Anyways, So yeah, oh,

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Speaker 1: I also just wanted to make a comment on the

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Speaker 1: actress who plays Marian She Allen. Yes, she doesn't end

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Speaker 1: up doing a whole lot of stuff by choice after

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Speaker 1: this movie, I would just like to throw out there,

425
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: no judgment, just wanted to put it out there. She

426
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 1: does marry a man named Kale, a grown man named Kale.

427
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,719
Speaker 1: Karen and Kale, Karen and Kale. That's something people had

428
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: to say seriously when making plans. So that's just all Kale.

429
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 1: So yeah, do you think Cal and Karen are around

430
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: if you knew Kale first? In any case, just a

431
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: little bit of gristle for you to chew on for

432
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: our hundredth episode. You bet you? Okay, back to talk

433
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 1: about Yeah, let's talk about her role and major contributions

434
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 1: in the story. So we see her for the first

435
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 1: time in the bar in Nepal. Some bad guys come

436
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: in and threaten her. They use violence as a way

437
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: to turn her business down. In reality, she would have

438
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 1: to stay and at least get the insurance money, not

439
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 1: leave that day. Anyways, Indiana has to come in and

440
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: save her. There is a fight. She does a couple

441
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: of things, like she hits a guy with a log head.

442
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: She drinks whiskey out of a barrel. This was That

443
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 1: was the first thing where I was like, she's more

444
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,439
Speaker 1: active than I thought she was going to be. But

445
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 1: she still wasn't that like she could. She couldn't have

446
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 1: won the day on her own for sure, and then

447
00:27:52,119 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 1: as opposed to Oklahoma, Oklahoma Smith my favorite actor movie hero. Personally,

448
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: I'm partial to Utah, Pennsylvania, Johnson Pennsylvania, Johnson is great?

449
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 1: Where's Johnny Utah? And all of this point break Okay, anyway,

450
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: choose its crews favorite action hero. Okay. So by the

451
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: end of this scene, Indiana Jones is doing most of

452
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: the fighting, but Marian does shoot the last bad guy

453
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: who was about to kill Indiana Jones. I'd argue this

454
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: is a little trophy of the woman did something. Yeah,

455
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 1: so she saves him, but it is like, oh, wow,

456
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: look at it, look at look at what a woman.

457
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: I guess that I could I think that, And I

458
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 1: think that that is partially used as like a reasoning

459
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: to the audience of like, oh, she is a realistic

460
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: person for him to take on as a partner, which

461
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: there's a pattern of the way she's treated in this movie.

462
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: I feel like almost the movie never well, it does

463
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 1: make a decision eventually, but it goes back and forth

464
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: several times of like if we're thinking chessboard, is she

465
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: a pawn or is she an actual player in the game,

466
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: Because there's multiple times where she's used as a pond

467
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: she treated like an object to move the plot forward.

468
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: There's that moment where what's the name of that character,

469
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,239
Speaker 1: katanga u Katanga has her on the boat and it's like,

470
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: I think that, you know, we could sell her as

471
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: a prostitute once we get off the boat, and that

472
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: moves the plot forward and gets what needs to happen

473
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 1: in the scene to happen, but only because she's treated

474
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: as an object. Same dale whenever she's randomly abducted. That

475
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: just adds steaks by her being there. But then there's

476
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: other moments where her skills and presence are necessary to

477
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: the plot moving forward, and the movie just kind of

478
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: goes back and forth, and never I think that it

479
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: settles on the decision that she is a pawn, because

480
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: by the end she is wearing like a wedding dress

481
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: and it's to be rescued. But for for a while,

482
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: it's back and forth. And then one more quick thing

483
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,239
Speaker 1: about the bar scene is that at the end of

484
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: that she makes the choice to accompany him on She's like, like,

485
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 1: you got more than you bargained for. I'm your goddamn partner, right,

486
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: so so I'm not getting tired of it personally me either,

487
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: and Prior to that, you know, we see her interacting

488
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: with like the Nazi guy who's like, I don't know

489
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: what kind of people are used to dealing with, but

490
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: no one tells me what to do in my place,

491
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: she blows smoke in his face, you know, So she's

492
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: more headstrong considering the era, considering the genre, and also

493
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: considering the fact that these movies were based on these

494
00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: sort of adventurer cereals from the nineteen thirties. I have

495
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: not watched that media personally, but I would wager that

496
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: those did not treat women very well, and if it

497
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: was a woman in the story, this is probably progress

498
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: built upon that. Yeah, I would imagine. So if you,

499
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: if you are familiar, as as the audience listening to us,

500
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: if you have seen those, you know, adventure cereals that

501
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 1: Indiana Jones movies are kind of inspired by, let us know.

502
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: But again, I would hazard to guess that the women

503
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: in those stories were just kind of tossed around and

504
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: not allowed to do anything or damsels in distress the

505
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: whole time. So yeah, but you know, more progress could

506
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: have been made than it was. I agree, Yeah, I

507
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: would be shocked if this wasn't somehow an improvement on

508
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: the source material, but you know it's still an idea one, right, right, right.

509
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: So the next sequence is the one in the marketplace.

510
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: They are now in Cairo, h Indiana Jones calls her

511
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: stupid because there's a monkey that's their friend. Now, Indiana

512
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: Jones is enough, right, but yeah, but he's like, oh,

513
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 1: do we need the monkey? And she's like, it's got

514
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: your looks and he's like, and your brains and she's like,

515
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,479
Speaker 1: I noticed that she's smart, so um, and then that

516
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: fights scene breaks out. As soon as the fight breaks out,

517
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: you see Mary and picking something up and like starting

518
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 1: to hit a bunch of bad guys with it. It

519
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: seems to be an aluminum pan that would not inflict

520
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: much damage, but hey, it's what was right there. But

521
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: it's more the same thing that we see in the

522
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: first fight scene at the bar, where Indiana Jones is

523
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: doing most of the fighting and she is not doing

524
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: nearly as much. He says to her pretty early on

525
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: to get out of there, and then he throws her aside.

526
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 1: She falls on the ground. A little later on, picks

527
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: up a frying pan and hits a guy over the

528
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: head with it. But this is something that. I feel

529
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: like we see a lot where if women in a

530
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: movie are allowed to participate in a fight scene, they're

531
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: usually not given actual weapons. No, no, the well, and

532
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: then very often I think that they end up using

533
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: domestic items to fight, which is like a weird subtext

534
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: of like, oh, well, they would never have just have weapons,

535
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: and so they you know, you know how to use

536
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: this pot, They've they've cooked many things. Let's let's have

537
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: her fight in her language. Like what yeah, totally absolutely

538
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: agree with that. Or another example of what happens when

539
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: women are fighting and fight scenes is she will wrap

540
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 1: her legs around a guy's face and then pussy slam

541
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: him on the floor. Yeah. Yeah, so those are usually

542
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: the two options. Rarely do we see a woman wielding

543
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: a gun and being skilled with a gun. Now is

544
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: this something as a hater of guns, do I want

545
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: to see women firing of guns all the time? Not necessarily,

546
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 1: but because men get to do it so much right,

547
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 1: and we see so little of women doing it in

548
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 1: action movies. It's a very noticeable disparity. Uh. And then

549
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: I honestly like I did lose track of the fight

550
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: scenes because it's just not a language that I speak,

551
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, there's he's gonna win, Like why are

552
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: we He's going to win, but we have to see

553
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 1: him struggle before he wins and fights. But you just

554
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: love it. But he's gonna win and we don't know that.

555
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: But intellectually we know, but emotionally we only twist in movies.

556
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,399
Speaker 1: Ever that's ever happened is in School of Rock when

557
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: they lose the Battle of the Dance. That's the only

558
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 1: Act three twist. You never see it coming. So the

559
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 1: rest of the sequence plays out where she after she

560
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: makes a few failed attempts at fighting, she hides in

561
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 1: a basket, then gets captured, gets loaded onto a truck,

562
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 1: and is thought to have been killed in a big

563
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 1: truck explosion. And then she disappears from the movie for

564
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: about fifteen minutes and doesn't appear on screen again until

565
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: Oh no. But it's to build suspense, doy, so she

566
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: appears on screen again whenever Indiana Jones finds her in

567
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: a tent where she is tied up, she is bound

568
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 1: and gagged and he's like, hey, there you are. I

569
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 1: thought you were dead, and she's like, give me out

570
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 1: of here, cut me loose, and he's like no, that

571
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 1: would be too says that they'll be on me. That's

572
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: gonna risk you dying. The only thing that's more frustrating

573
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: than a woman needing to be constantly rescued as a

574
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 1: woman almost being rescued, and then the guy being like,

575
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: actually not, and then they still end up together. It's

576
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: just not a cute thing to do. I don't care

577
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 1: what this movie tells me to feel. I don't think

578
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 1: it's cute or charming. I understand. God damn it. He

579
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 1: just left her with Nazis, right, And then we cut

580
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: to a scene where the Nazis are talking about torturing

581
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 1: her to get information out of her, which I think

582
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: it would have been an improvement on the story if

583
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: she was given information about the medallion that she not

584
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 1: that I wanted to see her tortured, but if if

585
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 1: she had had Because they get the medallion and there's

586
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,280
Speaker 1: these markings on it that they need to have interpreted

587
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 1: so they can figure out how high the staff of

588
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: raw needs to be. It would stand to reason because

589
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: she's been in possession of this thing for so long,

590
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 1: because her father was a noted archaeologist who was an

591
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: expert on this very ark of the Covenant, Tannis staff

592
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: of raw stuff. You would think that maybe she would

593
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:01,760
Speaker 1: have along the way acquire heard some information about this,

594
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: but because the movie God Forbid a woman knows anything,

595
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:12,720
Speaker 1: that doesn't become you know, world cannon. Until at least

596
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:16,879
Speaker 1: the early two thousand, women didn't know facts. But then

597
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:21,200
Speaker 1: we talked about this on the tomb Raider episode because

598
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 1: we can very easily liken lot of craft tomb Raider

599
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:29,240
Speaker 1: to Raiders of the Lost Arc. And even in that movie,

600
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 1: where we have a female protagonist who is driving the story,

601
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: she is given most of the information she needs to

602
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: propel the story forward, usually by men. So it's not

603
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: even though that she knows the stuff or has a

604
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: waited or like even it's not because it's like sometimes

605
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 1: it's uh Mary Sue situation where it's like, how would

606
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 1: she have known that? Radically? But it's like she could

607
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: have sought out that information and found it, and we

608
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: could have had her be actively looking for like that.

609
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 1: But no, bret In staid, a bunch of you know,

610
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 1: guys come up to her and they're like, hey, here's

611
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: the information. You know. Anyways, See he's like, who is

612
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: that and why is he? In Sagg now like that's insane.

613
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 1: So after she realizes that Indiana Jones is not going

614
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 1: to cut her loose and rescue her, she takes matters

615
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 1: into her own hands, to her credit, so what she

616
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 1: does is she tries to outsmart and out drink Bellock

617
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: so that she can try to escape, because her whole

618
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: plan is to get him so drunk that he can't

619
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 1: chase after her whenever she tries to run away, and

620
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 1: there's a knife that she threatens him with and it

621
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 1: almost works until and he's mad. He's got a coat hanger.

622
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 1: But she made that Nazi so mad with her knife

623
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:04,240
Speaker 1: and she's, oh shit, that not he pissed, and then

624
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: she is made or maybe this already happens, but at

625
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 1: some point in this scene, she is made to put

626
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 1: on a sexy white dress basically like a virgin. We

627
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 1: it's a wedding dress like it's just as she's putting

628
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: this on, Belloc is spying on her, which means that

629
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: the audience is spying on her while she's changing. And

630
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: that's another sneaky moment where it's a moment of blatantly

631
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: objectifying a woman, but the bad guys doing it, so

632
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: you don't have to feel bad about participating, which is

633
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 1: like not dog does not happen. It works, right, So

634
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 1: that scene concludes with them taking her and then throwing

635
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 1: her into the Well of Souls where Indiana Jones is

636
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: already hanging out. This seems fun. At this point. We

637
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,080
Speaker 1: haven't seen Alfred Billina for well over an hour, and

638
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 1: we're getting frost right there. You've had to pause and

639
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 1: watch Shock a lot for a while. I had to.

640
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 1: I had to keep pausing and watching a whole other movies. Yeah, um,

641
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 1: watch all a feud in the middle of this. So then, um,

642
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: she's in the tomb in that scene starts with an

643
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,280
Speaker 1: upshot of us looking up her dress while she's dangling

644
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: from a statue, and then they now need to escape

645
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 1: from this tomb, the snake tomb. The snake tomb. That's right,

646
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 1: So she is less scared of snakes than Indiana Jones,

647
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 1: but she's still shrieking at the top of her lungs

648
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,720
Speaker 1: throughout the entire scene. If we need to remove snake

649
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:44,240
Speaker 1: stigma as a future snake owner, let's normalize women with snakes.

650
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: I guess I still don't support this snake things. Too late,

651
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: I gotta Terry, Um, I need to fill it. So

652
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: they're trying to escape, and of course Indiana Jones is

653
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: doing most of the escape ing. She's mostly just squealing

654
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 1: about snakes. Uh. This could have been an opportunity to

655
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 1: because she has like because Indiana Jones has a crippling

656
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:14,280
Speaker 1: fear of snakes in the whole tomb is slithering with them.

657
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: So this could have been an opportunity to make her

658
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: more active and to have her be the one because

659
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 1: she's not so petrified, being the one who is actively

660
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 1: doing stuff to find an escape route. But of course

661
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: that does not happen. So Indiana Jones he's doing he's

662
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 1: whipping stuff, he's crashing through a wall. Um, he's doing

663
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,919
Speaker 1: all manners stuff. He's occasionally that that theme we all

664
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: know and love starts to play in the crowd will

665
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 1: go wild. And as my friends pointed out, because I

666
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 1: watched this recently with Nolan, Alex and Jake and sorry

667
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: everyone for hanging out with men, but that was the

668
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,320
Speaker 1: reality of the situation. So shouts out to my friends.

669
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,839
Speaker 1: But um, I think it was my friend Nolan who

670
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 1: pointed out that he is an archaeologist and yet he

671
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 1: is destroying an ancient historical site. Oh, he has no

672
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: regard for the culture he's supposed to dearly love like

673
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 1: and that's I mean, that is perhaps one of the

674
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:21,280
Speaker 1: more realistic elements of the nineteen thirties being presented, because

675
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 1: like it's so well documented of like British it's it's

676
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: like super fucking colonial ship of like if you're an archaeologist,

677
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 1: it's basically sanctioned fievery because you're white. That maybe is

678
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:39,359
Speaker 1: the most historically accurate, just like he wants one thing

679
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 1: and he'll burn down any other piece of ancient history,

680
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: and archaeologist should probably be more comfortable around snakes. There's

681
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: just a lot of like he's a very least an

682
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: unethical archaeology. Yeah, there's there's no doubt about that. Also

683
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: in this scene, because she's now in her in a

684
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 1: wedding dress, he's where did you get this dress? From him?

685
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,800
Speaker 1: And she's like, I was trying to escape, no, thanks

686
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 1: to you, And he's like how hard were you trying? Right,

687
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, dog, you had the opportunity to rescue me

688
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 1: from a serious So she's like, well, where the hell

689
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 1: were you? And then instead of answering, he rips off

690
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 1: the bottom two feet of her dress for the torch. Yeah,

691
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 1: and then they throw a bunch of skeletons at her.

692
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 1: She's screaming, and then they get out of the tomb,

693
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 1: so she is rendered I would say, more inactive in

694
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 1: this scene than probably any of the other scenes she's in, which,

695
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 1: as you pointed out, it's pretty inconsistent with like sometimes

696
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: she's like doing stuff and it's in it's helping, and

697
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 1: it's you know, further in the cause, and at the

698
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,839
Speaker 1: time she's completely damseled. So the next scene we come

699
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:56,280
Speaker 1: upon with her is the fight scene at the plane

700
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 1: where she does some I would pretty cool stuff here.

701
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 1: She hits the pilot with some wooden blocks who was

702
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 1: trying to shoot indies, so she saves him there, and

703
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 1: then she gets in the plane and shoots a bunch

704
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: of bad guys with like the big gun. Um. But

705
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,879
Speaker 1: then she gets trapped in the plane and he has

706
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 1: to save her, and then she is not on the

707
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 1: screen again for a while because there's a big chunk

708
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:27,919
Speaker 1: of the movie where he's on a truck and he's

709
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 1: punching Nazis. That scene certainly was long, but it's so good. God,

710
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 1: I love it. The only thing that occurred to me

711
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: during the truck scene was like, Wow, he must have

712
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,919
Speaker 1: really a high quality pants because anyone else's pants would

713
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 1: have just, you know, totally deteriorated. He's dragging along at

714
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 1: like seventy miles hour, so you know, good on his pants. Guy,

715
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 1: they don't like pants. As far as I got into

716
00:44:56,200 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 1: being engaged in that scene, hey, let's take a quick break.

717
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: We'll put a pause on the conversation and we'll come

718
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 1: back after the break. That's all breaks work. Yes, do

719
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 1: do Do Do Do Do Do. It's hockey night in Canada,

720
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:32,399
Speaker 1: da Sweet saying on me, I can't believe you don't

721
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 1: know that song. Oh my god. Okay, so we're back

722
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 1: and this is the hundredth episode. Okay, so we're we're

723
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 1: finishing up Marion's moments of activity. Yes, so the next

724
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: scene we're gonna take a look at. Here is the

725
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:51,879
Speaker 1: scene on the boat. Well, first, before Marion even gets

726
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 1: on the boat, she kisses Sala on the mouth to

727
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 1: thank him, right, and he has a horny connection, which

728
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 1: is her choice, but also as weird, like Indiana Jones

729
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:07,439
Speaker 1: doesn't kiss him on the mouth to thank him. So

730
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:12,960
Speaker 1: that part I mean it was stupid, but I don't know,

731
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 1: Like Indiana Jones, he's so like, you know, all of

732
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 1: his male friendships, he literally like kind of no homos

733
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 1: his own friend when his friends like I'll miss you,

734
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 1: and then Indiana Jones like that's clearly too much emotion

735
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 1: for him. He's like you are a friend, like you

736
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 1: are a good friend, and then you're like okay, so

737
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 1: also only going to get so he would never say

738
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 1: he missed someone, sure, But also in the very beginning

739
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,720
Speaker 1: with Alfred Molina, whenever he's like grabbing onto his pants

740
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:42,359
Speaker 1: and then pulls them to the other side of this

741
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 1: like crevice. They've kind of like got their arms around

742
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 1: each other, and then Indiana Jones pushes Alfred Molina away

743
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 1: because do you know you're being embraced by a god?

744
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 1: And second of all, I'll go on record to say

745
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 1: I would get guarantee that we're talking Cannon. All of

746
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 1: Harrison Ford's early characters are homophobic, not a question in

747
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 1: my mind. I don't think Harrison Ford is really an

748
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: ally to it or his character. Sorry, I don't know

749
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 1: anything about him as a person, but all of his

750
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 1: characters are part of like they're like rogue is charm is.

751
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 1: They're not an ally to literally anyone. Uh. And I

752
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:25,799
Speaker 1: want to talk about him as like, you know, a

753
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 1: man's man, but we'll get there. Oh yeah, there's some

754
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:33,320
Speaker 1: not the worst perpetrator of toxicity in the whole world,

755
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,719
Speaker 1: but you know it's certainly a purp, yeah for sure.

756
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: So then they get on a boat. She puts on

757
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 1: another sexy white dress, which she wears for the rest

758
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: of the movie pretty much until the very last scene.

759
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 1: And then she spends that whole scene trying to take

760
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:51,400
Speaker 1: care of Indiana Jones, for which he is not grateful. No,

761
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 1: which is I think falls into the man's man's persona

762
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 1: of like I don't need anyone to take care of me,

763
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: independent man, blah blah blah. And this is kind of

764
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 1: like a familiar scene too, of like the warriors wounded

765
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 1: and now the woman must be his nurse. And it

766
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,959
Speaker 1: reminded me I was thinking immediately of that scene from

767
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:13,359
Speaker 1: Beauty and the Beast after the Beast has rescued Bell

768
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: from the wolves and then she you know, heals him,

769
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 1: and at first he's really mean to her, but then

770
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 1: by the end it's like there's something here, kind of

771
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:26,280
Speaker 1: like the exact same road map for this scene because

772
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 1: until this moment on screen, we have not seen them

773
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 1: be Oh no, we have seen them be romantic. He

774
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 1: kisses her, I think, whenever he finds her in the tent. Yeah,

775
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:41,759
Speaker 1: like there are moments, but it's just like, this is

776
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 1: the first moment where he isn't totally nagging her, right,

777
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 1: And it's also one of their first like private moments

778
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 1: that they're not in grave danger. Right, it's like a

779
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 1: quiet moment. So yeah, he's not quite as much like

780
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:02,280
Speaker 1: peacocking around. But even then still it's you can tell

781
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: that this character is so steeped in his own masculinity

782
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 1: that acknowledging that he needs help from another person pains

783
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 1: him greatly. Also, his own physical fallibility is upsetting to him,

784
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:16,879
Speaker 1: which we find out in this scene as well, which

785
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,320
Speaker 1: I thought was like kind of an effective choice of like, Okay,

786
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 1: at least Indiana Jones has an insecurity that we are

787
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 1: now aware of. I didn't know that before, so that's something. Yeah, Oh,

788
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 1: I forgot to mention that, you know, they kiss on

789
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 1: a boat, not on like Hydros Titanic. They but but

790
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 1: the spark simply isn't there. And then The next thing

791
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 1: that happens is the Nazis invade this boat and then

792
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 1: we you talked about this scene already where Indiana Jones

793
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 1: hides but Marian gets captured, and then the ship captain

794
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 1: Katanga is like, hey, let's keep her because she's got

795
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:02,319
Speaker 1: value where we're headed. And then the Nazis are like, no,

796
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 1: she's our property. Yeah, like literally, she's property in this

797
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 1: And then Indiana Jones gets on a submarine, but I

798
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,959
Speaker 1: don't think he goes inside, so I think we're meant

799
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 1: to believe that he just like somehow hangs on the

800
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 1: outside of a submarine for what seems like a journey

801
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:25,279
Speaker 1: of like several hundred miles. Sure, I'm like, I don't know.

802
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 1: The rules of this world are very unclear. I mean

803
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: probably a little bit on purpose. Where like there's one

804
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:35,320
Speaker 1: point where Indiana Jones gets literally shot, but it doesn't

805
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:38,240
Speaker 1: seem to slow and by that much. He gets shot

806
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,319
Speaker 1: and then punched in that bullet wound, right, and then

807
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 1: he's like I'm fine, and he like later he's like, aoie,

808
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:50,840
Speaker 1: but give me a little kiss. It's like this, but whatever,

809
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 1: it's an action movie, right. So then we arrive at

810
00:50:55,600 --> 00:51:00,799
Speaker 1: the island where So this scene is interesting because in

811
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 1: many action movies, the female lead is tied up at

812
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: the end um usually so the male hero can save her.

813
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:10,799
Speaker 1: But an interesting thing happens in this movie where the

814
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,879
Speaker 1: male hero is also tied up and ends up being

815
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:16,839
Speaker 1: very passive during the climax of the movie. It's so

816
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: weird how shares goes really steals. I thought that was

817
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 1: interesting as well. I mean, and it ends up kind of,

818
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 1: I guess, being a wash because no one really does anything.

819
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 1: You kind of just trapped and they're like, well, just

820
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 1: don't open your eyes and let's just power through the

821
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 1: end of this movie. Yeah, it's kind of I don't know.

822
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess I don't feel one way or another.

823
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:44,320
Speaker 1: It's not as bad as like the normal Tolby mcguarth

824
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 1: throwing Kurs and Duns out of the frame, or it's

825
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 1: not as bad as specific Rim where the female protagonists

826
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:54,319
Speaker 1: launched out of the final scene via submersible, or like

827
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 1: in Twilight whenever Bella's one's like I'm just going to

828
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:00,239
Speaker 1: pass out for the climax of my own story right,

829
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 1: or the time she likes sleeps for three months because

830
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 1: a breakup. I don't know, but I think ultimately it

831
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 1: just ends up being just kind of an unusual choice

832
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:16,399
Speaker 1: to disable both of your protagonasts for the sure, I mean,

833
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:19,080
Speaker 1: I guess that. I mean, I'm grateful for the world

834
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 1: that we have those face melting, head exploding shots. I'm

835
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 1: glad that ghost looks like share. I guess that you

836
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 1: don't really need anything outside of that. I don't know

837
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:29,760
Speaker 1: that was that was kind of I mean, yeah, because

838
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 1: of the Nazis bring their own demise upon themselves, so

839
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:38,400
Speaker 1: it was interesting, not not a usual climax to an

840
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 1: action movie. So I would say my overall thoughts on

841
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 1: her participation in the story, what's her participation grade, Well,

842
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:51,279
Speaker 1: it's it's not very high. She she needs to be

843
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 1: saved no less than probably five times throughout the story,

844
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 1: if not more. She is I would say, more act

845
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 1: of and kind of more headstrong than a lot of

846
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 1: female characters in similar roles in similar movies. But that's

847
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 1: not saying much because usually women don't get to do

848
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 1: anything in these types of stories. And I think when

849
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 1: it comes down to it, there's a lot of pluses

850
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:20,319
Speaker 1: to this character, but ultimately the writing of her is

851
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:25,799
Speaker 1: very inconsistent where the movie doesn't know how much they

852
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 1: want or there and when she's there, the rules of

853
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 1: how much she's allowed to participate it seemed to be

854
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 1: very limited. I don't know that I could stay as

855
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:40,360
Speaker 1: sistinctly what she wants, Like what does this character want

856
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 1: besides to not work at a dive bar? Like there?

857
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:49,240
Speaker 1: We don't really know, like where the goals for Indiana

858
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:52,399
Speaker 1: Jones couldn't be more clear, to the point where it's

859
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 1: like I wish there was a little more but with

860
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 1: Mary and it's like, well, what does she want? And

861
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 1: I don't think that the movie really gives that a

862
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 1: lot of consideration. Oh not at all. Yeah, I mean

863
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 1: most kind of you know, romantic interests aren't given any

864
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 1: sort of specific goal, especially you know, action movies like this.

865
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:14,279
Speaker 1: Some of them do and that's and that's great, and

866
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 1: I think that should happen more often. But yeah, the

867
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 1: movie doesn't give it a second thought. So speaking of

868
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 1: their romantic relationship, here we here, we go there, I mean,

869
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 1: I don't there's multiple ways to interpret it. Is the

870
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 1: best I can say. Where sometimes when people say child,

871
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 1: they mean a younger version of a person, because she says,

872
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 1: I mean, it's also unclear how old her character is

873
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 1: supposed to be. I think the actress is about thirty,

874
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:46,720
Speaker 1: but I don't know how old her character is supposed

875
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 1: to be. But she references ten years since they first hooked.

876
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:56,240
Speaker 1: So let me break this down the scene where they

877
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 1: first interact on screen together in the movie, which is

878
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 1: when Indiana Jones walks into her bar in Nepal. She says,

879
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:07,960
Speaker 1: Indiana Jones, I always knew someday you'd come walking back

880
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 1: through my door. What are you doing here in Nepal?

881
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:12,879
Speaker 1: And he says, I need one of the pieces your

882
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:17,040
Speaker 1: father collected, and then she punches him in the face, right,

883
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:19,239
Speaker 1: which is another That was the other thing I wanted

884
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 1: to cite as like not like the other girl's move. Yeah, well,

885
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:26,439
Speaker 1: let me talk about that real quickly, because I would

886
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 1: say in movies that it's like, oh, she's not like

887
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:32,279
Speaker 1: the other girls. There are other women too put her

888
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:34,840
Speaker 1: up against. And because there are no other women, I

889
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 1: don't think the movie is actively doing that. I'll counter

890
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 1: that with the type of character India's, which is, you know,

891
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 1: I think it's made clearaters very early on, like he's

892
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 1: the eternal bachelor type character. And why is he an

893
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 1: eternal bachelor because he can't find a woman who can

894
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:56,560
Speaker 1: match him, you know, And so that's I think little

895
00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 1: things like that are meant to indicate, like here, like

896
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:03,320
Speaker 1: Indiana finally meets his match. I don't know. It sounds

897
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 1: like that sort of tapers off as the series goes along,

898
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 1: but as far as I can tell, because this is

899
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:12,719
Speaker 1: the only Indiana Jones movie besides The Child a Buff

900
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 1: Bonus one that I've seen, and to me, it seems

901
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:19,160
Speaker 1: like the character was like, you know, he's like in

902
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 1: his late thirties and is still single, unusual especially for

903
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:25,920
Speaker 1: the thirties, and it's like he's just he's a he's

904
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 1: a professional, and he doesn't have time for relationships and

905
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:32,279
Speaker 1: unless it's some lady who can really keep up with him,

906
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:36,320
Speaker 1: so that I don't know, Yeah, I see that. Um okay,

907
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 1: So back to back to this what's about to become

908
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 1: a very upsetting conversation. So she punches him. She says,

909
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:44,840
Speaker 1: I learned to hate you in the last ten years.

910
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 1: He says, I never meant to hurt you. She says,

911
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:49,719
Speaker 1: I was a child, I was in love. It was

912
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 1: wrong and you knew it. He says, you knew what

913
00:56:52,560 --> 00:57:00,080
Speaker 1: you were doing. It's not good. He says, look, I

914
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:01,359
Speaker 1: did what I did. You don't have to be happy

915
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 1: about it, but maybe we can help each other out now.

916
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:07,400
Speaker 1: And then she's like visibly exasperated, and she says, do

917
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 1: you know what you did to me? To my life?

918
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 1: This is the scene that plays out on screen. Let's

919
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 1: examine a conversation between the director Steven Spielberg, George Lucas,

920
00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 1: who is sort of the creative mastermind will say behind

921
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:27,320
Speaker 1: the movies, and Lawrence Kasden, the screenwriter of the film

922
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 1: honestly rather than not. But we have we must. So

923
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:33,080
Speaker 1: this is a kind of spitballing meeting that they're having.

924
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 1: They recorded it, and then this is from the transcript

925
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:39,280
Speaker 1: of the recording. So so I'll be kasidin, you'd be

926
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 1: George Lucas, and I'll be Spielberg. Okay, I'm going to

927
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 1: pretend Kasiden is British, so watch out everybody. So Kasdin says,

928
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 1: I like it if they already had a relationship at

929
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 1: one point, because then you don't have to build it.

930
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: Org Lucas says, I was thinking that this old guy

931
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 1: could have been his his mentor he could have known

932
00:57:57,800 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 1: this little girl when she was just a kid, hadn't

933
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 1: a fair there when she was eleven and he was

934
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 1: fulty two. He hasn't seen her in twelve years. Now

935
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 1: she's twenty two. It's a real strange relationship. Spielberg says,

936
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 1: she'd better be older than twenty two. Lucas says he's

937
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 1: thirty five, and he knew her ten years ago when

938
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:17,200
Speaker 1: he was twenty five and she was only twelve. Lucas

939
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 1: is stuck on twelve. He says it would be amusing

940
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 1: to make her slightly young at the time Spielberg and

941
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 1: promiscuous she came on to him. Lucas says, fifteen is

942
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:32,480
Speaker 1: a right on the edge. I know it's an outrageous idea,

943
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 1: but it is interesting. Once she's sixteen or seventeen, it's

944
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:38,920
Speaker 1: not interesting anymore. But if she was fifteen and he

945
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: was twenty five, and they actually had an affair the

946
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 1: last time they met, and she was madly in love

947
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:47,600
Speaker 1: with him, and he she has pictures of him, says Spielberg,

948
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 1: and the conversation, My god, that is George Lucas. So

949
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:59,080
Speaker 1: Lucas wanted him. He negotiates, He's like, fine, I guess

950
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 1: we can't do a of in but I'm not going

951
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 1: above fifteen like Jesus Christ. So it is unclear what

952
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 1: they settled on because they never articulate what actual age

953
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 1: Marion rave Wentz character is. Karen Allen was thirty at

954
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:18,760
Speaker 1: the time of the movies, but I'm assuming the character

955
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:22,720
Speaker 1: is supposed to be playing younger, right, So because Harrison

956
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:25,040
Speaker 1: four is always supposed to be playing younger, and and

957
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:28,240
Speaker 1: because she says I was a child it was wrong

958
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:32,240
Speaker 1: and you knew it because she says that to Indiana Jones,

959
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 1: I'm guessing they went with the fifteen narrative, but not

960
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:41,720
Speaker 1: over literally sets the parameter of like she cannot be

961
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:44,720
Speaker 1: of consenting age or it's not hot. That's literally what

962
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 1: he says, right, it's it's horrifying. So my guess is

963
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:56,520
Speaker 1: she is a teenager. She's fifteen. Also, it is unclear

964
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:58,920
Speaker 1: what happened between them, but I think we can assume

965
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 1: that they had sex and that he statutory raped her.

966
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 1: Everything I could find in the original marketing and reviews

967
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 1: of this movie referred to them as former lovers. I

968
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:12,320
Speaker 1: think it's safe to say that's insane. I was. I

969
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:16,840
Speaker 1: was so ready to give a little leeway. God, God,

970
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 1: George Lucas, you fucking freak. So this is horrifying this

971
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:29,720
Speaker 1: once you realize this, because it recontextualizes their whole relationship,

972
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:34,160
Speaker 1: because we realize that Indiana Jones is a statutory rapist

973
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 1: and that he had sex with a child, and she

974
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:42,440
Speaker 1: is the love interest for the rest of the movie.

975
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:45,600
Speaker 1: She agrees to keep hanging out with her rapist. And

976
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 1: then this is a trauma. This is literally a trauma

977
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 1: victim who he shows up after ten years and burns

978
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:59,160
Speaker 1: her building down. So, okay, recontextualize. This is a full

979
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 1: on nightmare. Yeah, where you're your rapist shows up after

980
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:08,600
Speaker 1: ten years. Now he's a successful archaeologist, he's learned to read.

981
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 1: He and then he refuses, like if someone you've raped

982
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:19,400
Speaker 1: is kidnapped by Nazis and you're the only one who

983
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:24,320
Speaker 1: can save them, save them her own rape, hast refused

984
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:30,240
Speaker 1: to save her from Nazis. Yeah, and and schoofy is Okay.

985
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 1: She cares for him and kisses him and they are

986
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 1: in love at the end. And the end in the

987
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:38,600
Speaker 1: fourth movie, The Fucking Piece of Ship that is a

988
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:43,240
Speaker 1: Kingdom in the Crystal Skull, they get married at the end. Okay, Yeah, this,

989
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:47,720
Speaker 1: uh who Okay, So the child line was red flag,

990
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 1: but I I sort of instinctively gave it a pass

991
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 1: of like she was she's clearly younger than him, but

992
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 1: I didn't think it was a literal rape situation. I

993
01:01:57,720 --> 01:02:00,480
Speaker 1: thought it was like she was. I. I mean, I

994
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 1: guess I'm giving Georgia the costumes credit and like she's

995
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 1: between the ages of like seventeen and twenty one where

996
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:09,560
Speaker 1: she's naive, but it's not a crime. She was a

997
01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 1: consenting party to this. But that is not well shit wells.

998
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 1: And here's what is also extremely upsetting to me that

999
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 1: as a kid who's watching this movie all the way

1000
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:25,400
Speaker 1: up until I would say a few years ago, the

1001
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:28,960
Speaker 1: implications of that conversation did not even register with me.

1002
01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:32,959
Speaker 1: So no, I didn't. I bet that with most people

1003
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 1: they did, it wouldn't. Yeah, I didn't notice them as

1004
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:38,920
Speaker 1: being probably like that whole conversation. Didn't notice it as

1005
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:42,080
Speaker 1: being problematic until probably like four years ago, and then

1006
01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, Indiana Jones, my hero

1007
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:48,280
Speaker 1: is a statutory rapist. And I didn't think anything of

1008
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 1: it until recently. Sentence that, Yeah, that is very that

1009
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:57,400
Speaker 1: is bone chilling, and it just goes to show how

1010
01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:05,000
Speaker 1: strongly ape culture is ingrained in just culture everything, and

1011
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 1: how movies like this reinforced and normalize rape culture, and

1012
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:13,800
Speaker 1: and and and that conversation alone should be like studied

1013
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:18,240
Speaker 1: because it's so it's such a weird enabling conversation where

1014
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:21,080
Speaker 1: Lucas is clearly the one pushing the narrative of like,

1015
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:24,320
Speaker 1: no younger, younger, younger, and then the other guys are like, well,

1016
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:29,040
Speaker 1: maybe like older, and then he's like, nah, not legal though,

1017
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 1: and then by the end they've sort of become complicit

1018
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:36,520
Speaker 1: of like, okay, not legal but not eleven. Like it's

1019
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:40,440
Speaker 1: just such your duds enabling other dudes kind of conversation

1020
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:45,680
Speaker 1: where yeah, there's one guy who's clearly the wrongest. Damn

1021
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 1: George Lucas, Holy shit. I mean, I knew you wouldn't

1022
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:53,120
Speaker 1: allow more than one woman to appear in your movie

1023
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:56,080
Speaker 1: is prior to two thousand and fifteen, but this is

1024
01:03:56,120 --> 01:04:01,160
Speaker 1: a this is a loop. I am deeply disturb by this.

1025
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:04,040
Speaker 1: So all of my just for clarity, all of my

1026
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:10,880
Speaker 1: notes on Marian were taken without this clear knowledge. Yes, right,

1027
01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 1: but that's sort of how I experienced this movie. I

1028
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 1: think a lot of people experienced this movie where you're like, oh,

1029
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:19,440
Speaker 1: you know, he's he's condescending. He might neg her every

1030
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 1: now and then, and we know that there's some history

1031
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:26,520
Speaker 1: to their relationship, but overall he's punches Nazis, so he

1032
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 1: can't be a bad guy. And then you find out

1033
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:33,640
Speaker 1: about this conversation and then you realize that she's intended

1034
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 1: to be probably fifteen at best, and the Indiana Jones

1035
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:43,560
Speaker 1: is a statutory rapist. Can we talk a little bit

1036
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 1: about the Indiana Jones school of masculinity? Yes, Um, it's

1037
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:52,680
Speaker 1: weird because I don't think that his character brings anything

1038
01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:56,080
Speaker 1: to the table of toxic masculinity that is necessarily new

1039
01:04:56,600 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 1: or even unfamiliar to most of a movie audience. Um,

1040
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:05,840
Speaker 1: but it really does hit all the points where he

1041
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:09,160
Speaker 1: has his no home a moment, a staple of toxic

1042
01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:14,520
Speaker 1: masculine characters. He has a moment where he outright refuses

1043
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:18,800
Speaker 1: to be emotionally vulnerable in front of both a woman

1044
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:21,360
Speaker 1: and a male friend, which I think is like a

1045
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:26,440
Speaker 1: quality of toxic masculinity that isn't spoken frequently enough about.

1046
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 1: Of like he can't even be honest with his own

1047
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:34,480
Speaker 1: male friend because he's just so whatever. There is countless

1048
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:37,800
Speaker 1: moments where he's straight up the game, nagging, nagging, nagging,

1049
01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:41,160
Speaker 1: and it works. It happens even worse in the second

1050
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:43,680
Speaker 1: movie and Temple of Doom. Well, and that the second

1051
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:45,960
Speaker 1: movie is the one where his love interest tries to

1052
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:47,480
Speaker 1: leave at the end and he whips her. It is

1053
01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:50,920
Speaker 1: like no, and she's like, I love you. One of

1054
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:52,840
Speaker 1: the most most insane. I haven't seen that full movie.

1055
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 1: I've seen that scene a million times and it hurts

1056
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 1: my feelings. I feel personally attacked by that scene. Yeah,

1057
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:05,640
Speaker 1: I mean it seems subtler in this but all the action,

1058
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:10,160
Speaker 1: like nothing is subverted by Indiana Jones. In terms of masculinity.

1059
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 1: It sounds like maybe some action hero tropes are subverted

1060
01:06:14,440 --> 01:06:17,960
Speaker 1: by him at this time in history. I would say

1061
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:21,040
Speaker 1: the main one is that he's also an academic, so like,

1062
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:24,240
Speaker 1: you know, he's he's a he's a rugged. Well here's

1063
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:26,760
Speaker 1: he like makes mistakes. That was something that I read

1064
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:29,960
Speaker 1: was like that he doesn't do everything perfectly every time.

1065
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:34,439
Speaker 1: It makes some more relatable. Yeah, like, for instance, he's

1066
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:38,800
Speaker 1: a rapist and you know he's imperfect. But that's the

1067
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:43,320
Speaker 1: thing though, like he is so many people's idea of

1068
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:48,080
Speaker 1: what like an awesome male hero is in a story

1069
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:50,680
Speaker 1: to the extent that I did kind of a little.

1070
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:53,800
Speaker 1: I sourced it out to Facebook and I said, what

1071
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:58,200
Speaker 1: are your thoughts on Indiana Jones as a character, especially

1072
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:00,320
Speaker 1: earlier in your life? And I had to respond is

1073
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:03,720
Speaker 1: from people saying I had the biggest crush on him.

1074
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:08,720
Speaker 1: I wanted to be exactly like him. I studied archaeology

1075
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:12,280
Speaker 1: or anthropology in college because of him. I went to

1076
01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:16,560
Speaker 1: the University of Chicago because he went there. I but

1077
01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:20,480
Speaker 1: he is such an iconic hero to so many people

1078
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:24,960
Speaker 1: because he is sort of like the height of He's handsome,

1079
01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:27,800
Speaker 1: he's got a cool outfit. He punches people, and he

1080
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:31,760
Speaker 1: whips his whip around. He rides horses, he drives trucks.

1081
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:33,280
Speaker 1: You know, he's doing all this stuff. But he's also

1082
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:36,600
Speaker 1: he cleans up real nice and he's a professor. He

1083
01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:39,520
Speaker 1: can self puzzles. He's pragmatic, you know, so it's like

1084
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 1: all these he has a sense of humor. He's very

1085
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:45,680
Speaker 1: smooth with women. Think this exact same conversation with some

1086
01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 1: small alterations apply to har and Solo, where it's the

1087
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:54,880
Speaker 1: same like rugged, constantly nagging women hero and again I

1088
01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:57,520
Speaker 1: think that part of the reason these characters get away

1089
01:07:57,560 --> 01:08:01,840
Speaker 1: with being the way they are outside of clearly the

1090
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:06,640
Speaker 1: time they were written in is because the villains are

1091
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:11,600
Speaker 1: so egregiously bad that you don't notice, like you'll you'll

1092
01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:15,040
Speaker 1: give the hero a pass on literally anything if they

1093
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:20,240
Speaker 1: defeat War two Nazis, like, yeah, of course we're going

1094
01:08:20,280 --> 01:08:25,200
Speaker 1: to root for someone to punch Nazis. However, because the

1095
01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:28,479
Speaker 1: bad guys are so bad, I think that it just

1096
01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:32,360
Speaker 1: conditions and audience to not examine the hero really at all,

1097
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:34,840
Speaker 1: or like let him get away with far more than

1098
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:39,120
Speaker 1: if you know. And these aren't my favorite movies either,

1099
01:08:39,160 --> 01:08:43,360
Speaker 1: but like the Nolan Batman movies, you think more about

1100
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:47,000
Speaker 1: like is Batman actually that good of a guy because

1101
01:08:47,160 --> 01:08:50,080
Speaker 1: he and the villains he's up against are more frequently

1102
01:08:50,360 --> 01:08:55,080
Speaker 1: his equals and have more nuance, And when both sides

1103
01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 1: are you know, presented with nuance, you will examine your hero.

1104
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:02,639
Speaker 1: But that's not the approach this movie takes at all.

1105
01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:05,240
Speaker 1: This movie doesn't really want you to examine the hero

1106
01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:08,360
Speaker 1: too much. He looks nice and he punches Nazis and

1107
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:13,520
Speaker 1: that's all they need you to know. So that realization

1108
01:09:13,720 --> 01:09:17,639
Speaker 1: really puts a damper on how much you can really

1109
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:22,160
Speaker 1: like Indiana Jones as a character. So there's a lot

1110
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:25,880
Speaker 1: to reconcile with this for me, and I would hope

1111
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:31,120
Speaker 1: for other huge fans of this movie because on the surface, it,

1112
01:09:31,400 --> 01:09:33,400
Speaker 1: you know, just seems like a cool action movie where

1113
01:09:33,439 --> 01:09:37,680
Speaker 1: there's this like this rugged, handsome guy who's punching Nazis

1114
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:40,519
Speaker 1: and and he's saving the world and all this stuff,

1115
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:44,519
Speaker 1: and then is a red flag if he's in the

1116
01:09:44,560 --> 01:09:48,880
Speaker 1: movie in a leading role, it's a red flag. And

1117
01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:54,160
Speaker 1: especially we refer you to the pop culture detective video

1118
01:09:54,280 --> 01:09:58,840
Speaker 1: essay entitled Predatory Romance and Harrison Ford Movies, which examines

1119
01:09:58,920 --> 01:10:04,320
Speaker 1: how people specially young men watching primarily I believe Star Wars,

1120
01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:07,920
Speaker 1: Indiana Jones, and boy Bade Runner. But those are three

1121
01:10:08,240 --> 01:10:11,160
Speaker 1: huge fucking franchises that are to some extent all still

1122
01:10:11,200 --> 01:10:17,240
Speaker 1: around today, and Harrison Ford is still involved in all

1123
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:22,680
Speaker 1: of them and no one cares. So that's fun and

1124
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:26,479
Speaker 1: I love that. Shall we Shall we talk about the

1125
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:30,240
Speaker 1: use of brown face in this I hear and I

1126
01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:32,599
Speaker 1: wonder if you can confirm this for me that this

1127
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:36,439
Speaker 1: movie of the three is not the most egregious one correct,

1128
01:10:36,600 --> 01:10:41,080
Speaker 1: That would definitely go to Doom. We would need to

1129
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:44,720
Speaker 1: do an entirely other episode on Temple of Doom just

1130
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:48,280
Speaker 1: to unpack every horrible, problematic, racist thing that happens there.

1131
01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:52,880
Speaker 1: But this movie, which I also didn't quite fully realize

1132
01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:57,479
Speaker 1: until watching this on Amazon Prime, and it does that

1133
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:00,120
Speaker 1: fun little thing where like the actor who's in the

1134
01:11:00,120 --> 01:11:03,160
Speaker 1: scene will pop up and it shows what character they're playing,

1135
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:07,599
Speaker 1: and then you click on that that guy and then

1136
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:10,479
Speaker 1: you see, oh wait, this person he's white and he's

1137
01:11:10,600 --> 01:11:13,840
Speaker 1: not playing a white person. The same for I believe

1138
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:18,639
Speaker 1: he's credited in the movie as Arab swordsman. Yeah, that

1139
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:24,879
Speaker 1: is also a white man in a very egregious instance

1140
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:27,680
Speaker 1: of brown face. Let me just kind of quickly go

1141
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:31,759
Speaker 1: through the different locations and the racist stuff that happens

1142
01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:36,680
Speaker 1: at each one. So characters who are not white in

1143
01:11:36,680 --> 01:11:40,600
Speaker 1: this movie are either usually played by white people or

1144
01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:44,920
Speaker 1: are just background extras. They're not given any significant screen

1145
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:48,479
Speaker 1: time or characterization or anything like that. Um, And nearly

1146
01:11:48,520 --> 01:11:50,679
Speaker 1: every scene in this movie takes place in a country

1147
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:53,799
Speaker 1: whose population is made up of mostly non white people.

1148
01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:57,280
Speaker 1: So keep that in mind. So first we open, We're

1149
01:11:57,280 --> 01:12:00,679
Speaker 1: in South America. What country in South America? He doesn't

1150
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:04,760
Speaker 1: give enough to tell you it doesn't care. The presentation

1151
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:07,679
Speaker 1: of and I'm pretty sure they are referred to as

1152
01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:13,960
Speaker 1: natives in this scene is ridiculous. It's like, it's just

1153
01:12:14,320 --> 01:12:19,240
Speaker 1: they go to such lengths to make the indigenous people

1154
01:12:19,280 --> 01:12:22,719
Speaker 1: of they don't care what country, seem like they don't

1155
01:12:22,720 --> 01:12:25,240
Speaker 1: have minds of their own. They will do whatever. The

1156
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:28,360
Speaker 1: first white guy who comes along says, they're they're made

1157
01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:32,960
Speaker 1: to be dumb. They're made to stylistically look very primitive

1158
01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:36,200
Speaker 1: in a way that even forties is not at all.

1159
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:37,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess we don't know where we are,

1160
01:12:37,880 --> 01:12:40,040
Speaker 1: so how could we know? It could be deep in

1161
01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:44,240
Speaker 1: the Amazon where you know, Western culture hasn't reached this tribe,

1162
01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:48,480
Speaker 1: but they're made to seem like there. It's it's it's

1163
01:12:48,920 --> 01:12:53,360
Speaker 1: glorified set dressing, which comes up again and again in

1164
01:12:53,880 --> 01:12:58,400
Speaker 1: all movies. But like, yeah, like the indigenous people of

1165
01:12:58,520 --> 01:13:03,679
Speaker 1: wherever we happen to be are largely treated as set dressing,

1166
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:07,479
Speaker 1: as people to be killed by Indiana Jones. Boy does

1167
01:13:07,520 --> 01:13:10,040
Speaker 1: Indiana Jones kill a lot of brown people in this movie.

1168
01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:14,400
Speaker 1: Blankets stated, not even getting into brown face. It's awful,

1169
01:13:15,400 --> 01:13:18,360
Speaker 1: and also his whole objective is to take something from

1170
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:23,639
Speaker 1: their culture and bring it back to Western white America.

1171
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:28,440
Speaker 1: So then we are in Nepal and all of the

1172
01:13:28,520 --> 01:13:33,000
Speaker 1: native Nepalese characters are in the background. There are no

1173
01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:35,679
Speaker 1: major speaking roles for them. All of the major speaking

1174
01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:38,679
Speaker 1: roles are relegated to white people. There is a character

1175
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:44,439
Speaker 1: who is credited as Ratty Nepalese. Awesome. He is played

1176
01:13:44,439 --> 01:13:49,800
Speaker 1: by a white man named Malcolm Weaver in Yellow Face Better.

1177
01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:55,559
Speaker 1: There's also a character called Mean Mongolian. He I didn't

1178
01:13:55,600 --> 01:13:57,840
Speaker 1: do enough research on that character, but the fact that

1179
01:13:57,880 --> 01:14:00,720
Speaker 1: there's a character called mean Mongole what else do you

1180
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:03,519
Speaker 1: need to know other than it's It's just I mean.

1181
01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:08,080
Speaker 1: And then his best friend Sala is one of the

1182
01:14:08,120 --> 01:14:13,759
Speaker 1: most agreed to choices, playing a Welsh white man named

1183
01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:17,840
Speaker 1: John Reese Davies. Um. He later plays Gimli. That's true,

1184
01:14:18,080 --> 01:14:24,679
Speaker 1: literally gimlely playing a non white character. Awesome. Also, don't

1185
01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:28,479
Speaker 1: forget he made a bunch of anti Muslim remarks in

1186
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:33,479
Speaker 1: two thousand four. He is also a Brexitter, so he

1187
01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:37,479
Speaker 1: and then we've got the Arab swordsman. Um, I'm sorry

1188
01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:41,960
Speaker 1: really quick for Salau. The John Yes, Darby Dave Davies.

1189
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:48,280
Speaker 1: John Es Davies keep trying to not say that, and

1190
01:14:48,360 --> 01:14:51,439
Speaker 1: I said it. John Reith Davies was not the first

1191
01:14:51,560 --> 01:14:53,400
Speaker 1: choice for Salo. Do you know who the first choice

1192
01:14:53,400 --> 01:14:56,679
Speaker 1: for Salo was? Was it another wiker? Daniel de Vito

1193
01:14:57,320 --> 01:15:04,360
Speaker 1: was the first choice for Salo loss for the culture? Um? Yeah,

1194
01:15:04,479 --> 01:15:09,400
Speaker 1: And then there's some confusing ones. I think alf Molina

1195
01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:13,080
Speaker 1: exists in an uncanny valley of this world where he

1196
01:15:13,320 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 1: is of Spanish Italian descent, but you know he's playing

1197
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:21,360
Speaker 1: a South American character, so you know he's still of

1198
01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:25,800
Speaker 1: exclusively European descent, and the character he's playing seems to

1199
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:30,519
Speaker 1: be a native of South America, I think, without a question,

1200
01:15:30,720 --> 01:15:34,439
Speaker 1: and is also falling into sort of that trope of

1201
01:15:34,520 --> 01:15:40,200
Speaker 1: like the selfish, tricky native who he is presented as

1202
01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:43,360
Speaker 1: a guide, a subordinate of Indiana Jones. And then the

1203
01:15:43,439 --> 01:15:46,400
Speaker 1: first chance he gets, he's he's a liar and a

1204
01:15:46,520 --> 01:15:48,640
Speaker 1: cheat and he's going to sneak off and he'll be

1205
01:15:48,680 --> 01:15:53,120
Speaker 1: punished and killed. And that is exactly what happens, just

1206
01:15:53,240 --> 01:15:57,400
Speaker 1: for a moment of levity. For Millina was born in Paddington, London.

1207
01:15:57,439 --> 01:15:59,639
Speaker 1: I know he said it before. It's worth repeating, Wait,

1208
01:15:59,680 --> 01:16:03,840
Speaker 1: I didn't know that he really, he's frosts are past.

1209
01:16:04,280 --> 01:16:07,320
Speaker 1: It's part of why he's so pure. Oh my god,

1210
01:16:07,439 --> 01:16:13,840
Speaker 1: born in Paddington. But Alfred Molina loves marmalade sandwiches. I

1211
01:16:13,880 --> 01:16:16,000
Speaker 1: get along really well with geminis. This makes so much

1212
01:16:16,040 --> 01:16:21,200
Speaker 1: sense anyways, So I do feel a little better after

1213
01:16:21,240 --> 01:16:25,280
Speaker 1: saying that out loud. So if you yeah, the situation

1214
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:29,320
Speaker 1: with Alfred Molina, it would appear that he is in

1215
01:16:29,479 --> 01:16:32,040
Speaker 1: brown face as well. I would. I would argue he

1216
01:16:32,120 --> 01:16:35,200
Speaker 1: is in brown face. And that seems to be almost

1217
01:16:35,240 --> 01:16:39,639
Speaker 1: a blanket rule of this movie, with possibly a few

1218
01:16:39,720 --> 01:16:45,599
Speaker 1: small exceptions of brown people of often unclear. We don't

1219
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:49,599
Speaker 1: always know where we are when we do people that

1220
01:16:49,760 --> 01:16:54,519
Speaker 1: are actually from there, our sidelined and brown people was

1221
01:16:54,640 --> 01:16:58,320
Speaker 1: speaking roles are white people in brown face? Correct? Uh?

1222
01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:05,439
Speaker 1: And then in the scenes in Cairo especially, there's a

1223
01:17:05,479 --> 01:17:08,839
Speaker 1: whole fight that breaks out where a bunch of Arab

1224
01:17:08,920 --> 01:17:12,599
Speaker 1: people are attacking Indiana Jones for reasons that have never

1225
01:17:12,960 --> 01:17:16,400
Speaker 1: entirely been clear to me. Yeah, but it makes it

1226
01:17:16,439 --> 01:17:20,880
Speaker 1: seem like, oh, the people are just so violent that

1227
01:17:21,080 --> 01:17:23,719
Speaker 1: if they see a Westerner they're just going to freaking

1228
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:26,559
Speaker 1: try to hit him right, which is another like common

1229
01:17:26,600 --> 01:17:29,400
Speaker 1: I think that even goes back to like a stereotype

1230
01:17:29,439 --> 01:17:31,920
Speaker 1: that's referenced in at and like the first line of

1231
01:17:31,960 --> 01:17:34,519
Speaker 1: Aladdin where it's like where they cut off your ear

1232
01:17:34,560 --> 01:17:38,960
Speaker 1: if they don't like your face. Just irrational violence, which

1233
01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:44,760
Speaker 1: is just fearmongering for Western white America is Indiana Jones

1234
01:17:44,840 --> 01:17:47,960
Speaker 1: is justified in stealing from these people and killing these

1235
01:17:48,040 --> 01:17:53,000
Speaker 1: people and ruining their history because they're bad and they

1236
01:17:53,040 --> 01:17:56,599
Speaker 1: are stupid and they don't know what they're doing. It's

1237
01:17:56,640 --> 01:17:59,920
Speaker 1: bad because then we cut to the scene where they're

1238
01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:04,080
Speaker 1: as a character who is credited as Arab Swordsman and he's,

1239
01:18:04,439 --> 01:18:06,360
Speaker 1: you know, slinging a sword around. We're saying the one

1240
01:18:06,360 --> 01:18:09,719
Speaker 1: who gets shot. He yeah, he gets shot because Harrison

1241
01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:12,400
Speaker 1: Ford had diary at that day and couldn't do the

1242
01:18:12,439 --> 01:18:16,559
Speaker 1: fight choreography movie Magic. I hate it. I hate it

1243
01:18:16,760 --> 01:18:20,800
Speaker 1: so but hey, you guessed it. That character of the

1244
01:18:20,840 --> 01:18:24,320
Speaker 1: Arab Swordsman is played by he's white white guy named

1245
01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:27,720
Speaker 1: Terry Richards. One of the only non white characters who

1246
01:18:27,720 --> 01:18:34,400
Speaker 1: speaks is Katanga, who, for Harry Potter fans also plays

1247
01:18:34,640 --> 01:18:39,040
Speaker 1: Kingsley shock Ball. Yes he dies. I didn't put that together.

1248
01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:43,719
Speaker 1: But totally um, well worth noting about that is that, yeah,

1249
01:18:43,720 --> 01:18:47,640
Speaker 1: so they're on the boat. We see several black Africans

1250
01:18:47,680 --> 01:18:50,880
Speaker 1: on this boat. They are the few people of color

1251
01:18:51,439 --> 01:18:54,920
Speaker 1: with speaking roles. But guess what they're pirates are They're

1252
01:18:54,960 --> 01:18:58,840
Speaker 1: still bad guys. I mean, I mean, yeah, pirates, you know,

1253
01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:02,760
Speaker 1: the ones known for raping and stealing. Uh. Not to

1254
01:19:02,840 --> 01:19:05,639
Speaker 1: be fair, Indiana Jones is known for those two things

1255
01:19:05,720 --> 01:19:09,200
Speaker 1: as well. Uh so really, perhaps they're just cut of

1256
01:19:09,240 --> 01:19:12,080
Speaker 1: the same cloth. But yeah, it's like, Okay, these are

1257
01:19:12,360 --> 01:19:15,160
Speaker 1: only these are the only non white characters that we

1258
01:19:15,160 --> 01:19:19,639
Speaker 1: were allowing to speak, and they're like, hey, let's sell

1259
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:27,040
Speaker 1: the only female character into prostitution. Well, yeah, you know,

1260
01:19:27,200 --> 01:19:29,479
Speaker 1: I can't remember when I was like there's some nuance

1261
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:32,679
Speaker 1: to this. I honestly no longer feel that way. Yeah,

1262
01:19:33,439 --> 01:19:36,519
Speaker 1: feel that way that I've got. Really there's a there's

1263
01:19:36,520 --> 01:19:40,439
Speaker 1: a storm brewing in my head about I mean, yeah,

1264
01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:43,880
Speaker 1: I I mean, and I have no attachment to these

1265
01:19:44,080 --> 01:19:48,160
Speaker 1: so it's yeah, yeah, um. A few lost things I

1266
01:19:48,240 --> 01:19:51,719
Speaker 1: wanted to bring up is that, as with many action

1267
01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:57,400
Speaker 1: movie franchises, the hero gets older, but the love interests

1268
01:19:57,880 --> 01:20:00,320
Speaker 1: stay the same age or in some case as they

1269
01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:06,560
Speaker 1: get younger. So talking strictly about the actors that play

1270
01:20:06,680 --> 01:20:13,960
Speaker 1: the female leads in these movies, so not the character's ages,

1271
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:17,519
Speaker 1: but the actor's ages. At the time Raiders of the

1272
01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:22,360
Speaker 1: Last Arc comes out, Harrison Ford is thirty nine years old.

1273
01:20:22,600 --> 01:20:27,040
Speaker 1: Karen Allen is thirty not the worst, not not too

1274
01:20:27,040 --> 01:20:30,280
Speaker 1: big of an age difference, a nine year age difference,

1275
01:20:30,360 --> 01:20:33,720
Speaker 1: not not too bad. Now in Temple of Doom, Kate

1276
01:20:33,800 --> 01:20:39,240
Speaker 1: cap shot thirty one. Um, but Harrison Ford is forty two,

1277
01:20:39,280 --> 01:20:42,360
Speaker 1: so he's now eleven years older than her. Here's the

1278
01:20:42,479 --> 01:20:50,400
Speaker 1: real kicker, Alison Duty actor who she plays the female

1279
01:20:50,520 --> 01:20:54,559
Speaker 1: lead in The Last Crusade. Now she eleven or she's twelve?

1280
01:20:55,360 --> 01:20:59,800
Speaker 1: She is was never clear. Harrison Ford is forty seven hot,

1281
01:21:00,439 --> 01:21:08,720
Speaker 1: Alison Duty is twenty three. So oh I, I'm exhausted.

1282
01:21:08,840 --> 01:21:12,719
Speaker 1: The one exception is in Crystal Skull when Karen Allen

1283
01:21:12,800 --> 01:21:16,680
Speaker 1: reprises her role as Marion raven Wood and she and

1284
01:21:17,000 --> 01:21:22,719
Speaker 1: Indiana Jones get married, and that is that. But um,

1285
01:21:22,760 --> 01:21:25,800
Speaker 1: sure there's I mean, we don't have time to talk

1286
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:29,040
Speaker 1: about all the problematic elements of the other Indiana Jones movies.

1287
01:21:29,400 --> 01:21:32,080
Speaker 1: Rest assured there are many, and I don't know, if

1288
01:21:32,080 --> 01:21:34,599
Speaker 1: we'll do episodes on them in the future, we'll see.

1289
01:21:34,720 --> 01:21:37,280
Speaker 1: But there's a lot to unpack there as well. Yeah,

1290
01:21:37,479 --> 01:21:43,439
Speaker 1: this so overall, I think, honestly, like the discussion of

1291
01:21:43,479 --> 01:21:47,879
Speaker 1: this movie has made me like it less. I started

1292
01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:51,920
Speaker 1: off on the fence, and now I'm off the fence

1293
01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:54,559
Speaker 1: on the side of I don't ever want to see

1294
01:21:54,640 --> 01:21:57,439
Speaker 1: this movie again. Well, that's what happens because when you

1295
01:21:57,600 --> 01:22:01,000
Speaker 1: just watch something at face value and you forget about

1296
01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:05,519
Speaker 1: all the problematic things that go into the development and

1297
01:22:05,560 --> 01:22:08,040
Speaker 1: the making of these movies because you're not aware of

1298
01:22:08,040 --> 01:22:10,320
Speaker 1: that because you're just watching the movie. You're having a

1299
01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:13,280
Speaker 1: good time. There's punching, and there's action scenes, and there's

1300
01:22:13,439 --> 01:22:16,040
Speaker 1: big step pieces, and it's a story that I would

1301
01:22:16,120 --> 01:22:19,680
Speaker 1: argue is fairly well crafted. There is, you know, the

1302
01:22:19,720 --> 01:22:22,920
Speaker 1: cinema thought was put into it. I mean it was like,

1303
01:22:22,960 --> 01:22:26,679
Speaker 1: how old was the character when Arison Ford first fucked?

1304
01:22:26,720 --> 01:22:28,600
Speaker 1: Or was she eleven? Or was she twelve? There's a

1305
01:22:28,600 --> 01:22:31,280
Speaker 1: lot of stuff to unpack. George Lucas is known for

1306
01:22:31,400 --> 01:22:34,599
Speaker 1: his world buildings, so this level of attention to perverted

1307
01:22:34,680 --> 01:22:38,240
Speaker 1: detail really admirable. I want to throw a brick at someone.

1308
01:22:38,439 --> 01:22:43,479
Speaker 1: I'm like, what the fuck, dude? Yes, so happy one

1309
01:22:44,200 --> 01:22:48,280
Speaker 1: episode we started in such high spirits. Okay, let's does

1310
01:22:48,280 --> 01:22:52,360
Speaker 1: it pass well real quick? Uh, A few last things.

1311
01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:56,759
Speaker 1: If anyone who's is paying attention to the anagrams of

1312
01:22:56,760 --> 01:23:00,080
Speaker 1: of my name, Caitlin Durante, I've got a few relevant

1313
01:23:00,080 --> 01:23:03,120
Speaker 1: ones for this movie to just to bring some levity

1314
01:23:03,200 --> 01:23:06,720
Speaker 1: back to the conversation. So for this one, you have

1315
01:23:06,760 --> 01:23:11,240
Speaker 1: to suspend your disbelief for the spelling of the plural

1316
01:23:11,600 --> 01:23:14,000
Speaker 1: of the word tarantula, and you have to assume that

1317
01:23:14,040 --> 01:23:18,320
Speaker 1: it's tarantula laid on me. If you recall the scene

1318
01:23:18,320 --> 01:23:23,080
Speaker 1: where Alfred Molina is covered in Tarantula's um, just consider

1319
01:23:23,160 --> 01:23:27,960
Speaker 1: that the name Caitlin Darante anagrams too nice tarantula D.

1320
01:23:28,920 --> 01:23:31,840
Speaker 1: So yeah, some tarantulas. We got some good dick out there,

1321
01:23:31,840 --> 01:23:35,360
Speaker 1: and they're they're so okay. So that trrent okay, So

1322
01:23:35,439 --> 01:23:41,719
Speaker 1: we're okay, Yeah, we should be acknowledging tarrant D. Yeah,

1323
01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:46,120
Speaker 1: tarrantual i D. And then even more relevant is the

1324
01:23:46,160 --> 01:23:52,960
Speaker 1: fact that Caitlin Darante anagrams to Indiana clutter. So there's

1325
01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:57,040
Speaker 1: a whole clutter of problematic ship that happens in Indiana Jones.

1326
01:23:57,720 --> 01:24:01,800
Speaker 1: Perhaps more pertinent than everything is that this movie does

1327
01:24:01,840 --> 01:24:06,080
Speaker 1: not pass the battle test. No, it comes closer than

1328
01:24:06,120 --> 01:24:10,479
Speaker 1: I thought too, because there is a quick scene where

1329
01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:16,160
Speaker 1: Salah's wife says to Mary, his wife, his wife, they're

1330
01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:18,680
Speaker 1: at Salah's house. There's a monkey there. Marian says, what

1331
01:24:18,760 --> 01:24:21,800
Speaker 1: an adorable creature. Sala's wife says, then it shall be

1332
01:24:21,840 --> 01:24:24,800
Speaker 1: welcome in our house. Marian says, no, you don't have

1333
01:24:24,840 --> 01:24:27,599
Speaker 1: to keep it here just because of me. The thing is,

1334
01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:32,080
Speaker 1: we do not learn Sala's wife's name, so that conversation

1335
01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:36,160
Speaker 1: does not pass. I checked. Yeah, yeah, that's a that's

1336
01:24:36,160 --> 01:24:39,759
Speaker 1: a miss. Honestly, I would be more upset if it did,

1337
01:24:39,760 --> 01:24:41,960
Speaker 1: by you know, the skin of its teeth. I think

1338
01:24:42,160 --> 01:24:44,599
Speaker 1: that it's it is for the best that it doesn't,

1339
01:24:45,360 --> 01:24:47,960
Speaker 1: right because there are so The only scene where you

1340
01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:51,760
Speaker 1: see a clutter of women, if you will, we move

1341
01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:54,800
Speaker 1: in clutters is the scene at the very beginning when

1342
01:24:54,840 --> 01:24:58,000
Speaker 1: he is in his classroom, and because he's such a

1343
01:24:58,760 --> 01:25:02,160
Speaker 1: man's man and a ladies man, the only people taking

1344
01:25:02,240 --> 01:25:05,680
Speaker 1: his class are a clutter of women, and one of

1345
01:25:05,720 --> 01:25:09,480
Speaker 1: them even has I Love you written across her eyelids.

1346
01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:12,639
Speaker 1: So um, it just it's like, Oh, look, how cool

1347
01:25:12,720 --> 01:25:15,560
Speaker 1: Indiana Jones is he? I wonder if he ever abuses

1348
01:25:15,600 --> 01:25:21,160
Speaker 1: that power dynamics. Oh wait, I guess. I guess. Also,

1349
01:25:21,240 --> 01:25:23,639
Speaker 1: there is a queer icon in this movie, and that

1350
01:25:23,800 --> 01:25:27,800
Speaker 1: is boy who gives Dr Jones and apple as he's

1351
01:25:27,840 --> 01:25:32,280
Speaker 1: dismissing class. So I think queer icon boy that he

1352
01:25:32,520 --> 01:25:36,639
Speaker 1: moved on doesn't doesn't pass. Honestly, I'm glad it doesn't pass.

1353
01:25:36,680 --> 01:25:38,800
Speaker 1: I wasn't tread. I'm not trying to give this movie

1354
01:25:38,800 --> 01:25:43,320
Speaker 1: any more points. Well, speaking of, let's write, all right,

1355
01:25:44,560 --> 01:25:49,960
Speaker 1: the hundred nipple bestow upon. Okay, I'm gonna give this

1356
01:25:50,360 --> 01:25:56,040
Speaker 1: one quarter nipple if you just isolate Marion's character. And

1357
01:25:56,080 --> 01:25:57,960
Speaker 1: we say this for a lot of action movies where

1358
01:25:57,960 --> 01:26:02,360
Speaker 1: if you isolate the one female character, she seems fairly

1359
01:26:02,680 --> 01:26:07,200
Speaker 1: smart and competent and capable, and if she was given

1360
01:26:07,200 --> 01:26:10,360
Speaker 1: her own movie that she was the hero of, she

1361
01:26:10,400 --> 01:26:16,360
Speaker 1: could probably do a pretty good job. However, because she

1362
01:26:17,000 --> 01:26:23,080
Speaker 1: is a grape victim and framed pretty much only as

1363
01:26:23,120 --> 01:26:29,680
Speaker 1: the romantic interest with no other real involvement in the story,

1364
01:26:29,760 --> 01:26:34,599
Speaker 1: Because she is put in situations where she has damseled

1365
01:26:34,640 --> 01:26:38,280
Speaker 1: several times, you know she's she's held captive and she

1366
01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:40,759
Speaker 1: has to be saved, and the few times we see

1367
01:26:40,760 --> 01:26:44,880
Speaker 1: her doing something active in the story, it doesn't really

1368
01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:48,320
Speaker 1: make that much of a dent because it's usually Indiana

1369
01:26:48,400 --> 01:26:51,360
Speaker 1: Jones pushing the story forward. And the fact that when

1370
01:26:51,560 --> 01:26:55,439
Speaker 1: the people who were developing this story thought that she

1371
01:26:55,520 --> 01:26:59,840
Speaker 1: should be eleven whenever Indiana Jones had sex with her

1372
01:27:00,520 --> 01:27:04,679
Speaker 1: and then completely ignored the fact that it's so obvious

1373
01:27:04,800 --> 01:27:07,919
Speaker 1: that men wrote this because yeah, they don't even consider

1374
01:27:08,280 --> 01:27:11,559
Speaker 1: that she is a rape victim who then, according to

1375
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:14,240
Speaker 1: the story, later goes on adventures with him and then

1376
01:27:14,360 --> 01:27:18,800
Speaker 1: later marries him. I have an ulcer like I I can.

1377
01:27:18,960 --> 01:27:22,360
Speaker 1: I can no longer endure what this movie is foisting

1378
01:27:22,439 --> 01:27:26,240
Speaker 1: upon us. Yeah, it's real upsetting, and the fact that

1379
01:27:27,040 --> 01:27:31,200
Speaker 1: there's just so much brown face and yellow face and

1380
01:27:31,720 --> 01:27:34,439
Speaker 1: the way that indigenous cultures and the way that non

1381
01:27:34,520 --> 01:27:38,680
Speaker 1: white people are treated in this movie is just horrendous.

1382
01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:46,679
Speaker 1: And this, honestly, I love us. I love our show.

1383
01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:49,120
Speaker 1: I love the hundredth episode. I feel like kind of

1384
01:27:49,120 --> 01:27:53,040
Speaker 1: sick to my stomach right now. This makes me genuinely

1385
01:27:53,200 --> 01:27:58,920
Speaker 1: like it's it's just so frustrated how little so many

1386
01:27:59,280 --> 01:28:04,519
Speaker 1: cultures have to latch onto as media that they can

1387
01:28:04,760 --> 01:28:08,519
Speaker 1: stand by with a clear conscience. Uh, and that's sort

1388
01:28:08,560 --> 01:28:10,360
Speaker 1: of what our show maybe, I mean, I guess we're

1389
01:28:10,439 --> 01:28:12,320
Speaker 1: ending kind of on a somber note. I'm giving it,

1390
01:28:12,920 --> 01:28:15,240
Speaker 1: I'll give I'll give it a quarter nipple as well.

1391
01:28:15,520 --> 01:28:19,600
Speaker 1: Uh for letting a woman exist within very specific parameters

1392
01:28:20,320 --> 01:28:25,360
Speaker 1: that white female, hetero rape victim can exist in this world.

1393
01:28:25,360 --> 01:28:30,240
Speaker 1: But that aside, and I'm giving it to the tarantula. Uh,

1394
01:28:30,280 --> 01:28:33,600
Speaker 1: but that aside, I mean, or a hundredth episode. On

1395
01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:37,479
Speaker 1: a somber note, it really is like some some days

1396
01:28:37,520 --> 01:28:41,479
Speaker 1: it's it sucks just to think of I mean, and

1397
01:28:41,520 --> 01:28:46,160
Speaker 1: it is fun and at least interesting to navigate. Okay,

1398
01:28:46,200 --> 01:28:48,880
Speaker 1: this is for you. I mean, this is a piece

1399
01:28:48,880 --> 01:28:52,240
Speaker 1: of media that meant a lot to you and influenced you.

1400
01:28:52,760 --> 01:28:55,840
Speaker 1: I think I became as interested in anthropology as I

1401
01:28:55,880 --> 01:28:58,320
Speaker 1: am because of these movies. There you go, and so

1402
01:28:58,360 --> 01:29:02,000
Speaker 1: it's like, there are you can race positive effects that

1403
01:29:02,080 --> 01:29:04,200
Speaker 1: this piece of media has had in your life, and

1404
01:29:04,360 --> 01:29:09,040
Speaker 1: that is like worth exploring. And and so it's kind

1405
01:29:09,080 --> 01:29:11,599
Speaker 1: of impossible because media shapes who we are so much.

1406
01:29:11,600 --> 01:29:15,559
Speaker 1: It's it's it is impossible to completely divorce yourself from

1407
01:29:15,560 --> 01:29:17,960
Speaker 1: a piece of media, because it's already shaped who you

1408
01:29:18,000 --> 01:29:21,280
Speaker 1: are in some ways. And then like looking at in

1409
01:29:21,320 --> 01:29:24,240
Speaker 1: the face is super important and we need to do it.

1410
01:29:24,439 --> 01:29:29,560
Speaker 1: But sometimes it's just like I need a mice hard lemonade,

1411
01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:33,799
Speaker 1: which I didn't mean what if this was an ad?

1412
01:29:34,960 --> 01:29:40,960
Speaker 1: This is just a two hour way down That's what

1413
01:29:41,439 --> 01:29:49,800
Speaker 1: I grab. You know what a world too? Oh I do?

1414
01:29:49,920 --> 01:29:52,679
Speaker 1: I feel a little bit sick. It's just it's upsetic.

1415
01:29:52,960 --> 01:29:56,000
Speaker 1: Everyone has so little to feel good about, and the

1416
01:29:56,000 --> 01:29:57,920
Speaker 1: things that we turn to to feel good about are

1417
01:29:57,960 --> 01:30:03,040
Speaker 1: also bad. So cheers to a hundred. Maybe this is

1418
01:30:03,040 --> 01:30:05,160
Speaker 1: the burden we bear though. As the host of the

1419
01:30:05,200 --> 01:30:09,439
Speaker 1: Bechtel Cast, puke, We're we're going to get more golfs trivia.

1420
01:30:10,360 --> 01:30:13,120
Speaker 1: I'm going to cause plays, Luke. So I'm gonna I'm

1421
01:30:13,120 --> 01:30:15,479
Speaker 1: gonna go full Paris tonight. I'm gonna be just gonna

1422
01:30:15,479 --> 01:30:19,439
Speaker 1: be like on it. I'm gonna be a student. I

1423
01:30:19,479 --> 01:30:23,400
Speaker 1: love my homework. Let's get out of here, honestly, thank

1424
01:30:23,400 --> 01:30:26,080
Speaker 1: you for listen. We love our We love you guys. Oh,

1425
01:30:26,120 --> 01:30:29,160
Speaker 1: I guess let's send the episode as we normally would. Yeah,

1426
01:30:30,720 --> 01:30:34,160
Speaker 1: let's okay, let's take a deep breath everyone with us,

1427
01:30:35,280 --> 01:30:39,960
Speaker 1: And yes, there's a lot to be upset about, especially

1428
01:30:40,080 --> 01:30:45,080
Speaker 1: in regards to this film that I unfortunately still enjoy

1429
01:30:45,200 --> 01:30:48,360
Speaker 1: and we'll watch, but because it's like it's a part

1430
01:30:48,400 --> 01:30:51,120
Speaker 1: of you, it's a part of me. But I guess

1431
01:30:51,120 --> 01:30:54,960
Speaker 1: feel comforted in acknowledging and recognizing how problematic it is.

1432
01:30:55,000 --> 01:30:58,320
Speaker 1: And I hope it didn't shape me for the worst.

1433
01:30:59,320 --> 01:31:02,439
Speaker 1: It's kind of hard to tell sometimes the impact that

1434
01:31:02,560 --> 01:31:07,360
Speaker 1: media has on you. I did take four anthropology classes

1435
01:31:07,560 --> 01:31:12,400
Speaker 1: in college because I loved these movies so much. But

1436
01:31:12,880 --> 01:31:16,639
Speaker 1: I it's listen. I mean, Tanya Harding is my hero,

1437
01:31:16,880 --> 01:31:20,040
Speaker 1: used to be my hero, and she's like, alt right,

1438
01:31:20,560 --> 01:31:24,639
Speaker 1: we all have our crosses, she's not she's all lives matter,

1439
01:31:24,720 --> 01:31:30,320
Speaker 1: she's whatever. Whatever. Everyone has these things, and it's just

1440
01:31:30,560 --> 01:31:35,880
Speaker 1: we encourage you to just have conversations about it and

1441
01:31:36,200 --> 01:31:39,880
Speaker 1: don't feel guilty or like you have to bear the

1442
01:31:39,960 --> 01:31:43,639
Speaker 1: burden of something that shaped you when you were very young.

1443
01:31:43,720 --> 01:31:46,639
Speaker 1: It's understandable, it happens to us all. But also don't

1444
01:31:46,640 --> 01:31:50,599
Speaker 1: shy away from having the discussion. And uh, you know,

1445
01:31:50,760 --> 01:31:54,200
Speaker 1: if if you're not sober and you're you're you're willing

1446
01:31:54,280 --> 01:31:57,280
Speaker 1: to uh you know, crack open a Mike's hard when

1447
01:31:57,360 --> 01:32:00,559
Speaker 1: you have these discussions, we we hear the battle can't

1448
01:32:00,560 --> 01:32:03,280
Speaker 1: occur to that enough. This is a whole two hour

1449
01:32:03,320 --> 01:32:06,200
Speaker 1: episode has been an advertisement for my talk Lemonade. Thank

1450
01:32:06,200 --> 01:32:08,000
Speaker 1: you so much for listening to the backtel Thank you.

1451
01:32:08,000 --> 01:32:10,479
Speaker 1: You can follow us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook at

1452
01:32:10,479 --> 01:32:14,400
Speaker 1: betel Cast. You can rate and review us on iTunes

1453
01:32:14,520 --> 01:32:17,040
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcast. You can go to

1454
01:32:17,080 --> 01:32:20,760
Speaker 1: our website becktelcast dot com and we would highly recommend I.

1455
01:32:20,880 --> 01:32:24,160
Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this episode, if you enjoyed just the gals,

1456
01:32:24,840 --> 01:32:28,559
Speaker 1: the gals kicking it and unpacking some stuff, we encourage

1457
01:32:28,600 --> 01:32:32,280
Speaker 1: you to sign up for our Patreon ak Matreon that

1458
01:32:32,520 --> 01:32:36,679
Speaker 1: is Patreon dot com slash becktel Cast. For five bucks

1459
01:32:36,680 --> 01:32:40,360
Speaker 1: a month. You get too full sized bonus episodes with

1460
01:32:40,640 --> 01:32:43,679
Speaker 1: just Caitlin and myself in a more kind of like

1461
01:32:44,200 --> 01:32:50,839
Speaker 1: chill format. It's cash usually we're literally so it's also hot,

1462
01:32:51,120 --> 01:32:53,920
Speaker 1: so when you think about it, you're silly not to

1463
01:32:53,960 --> 01:32:58,880
Speaker 1: sign up. That's so true, Jamie. And also we are

1464
01:32:58,920 --> 01:33:00,840
Speaker 1: going to be doing a couple live shows on the

1465
01:33:00,880 --> 01:33:04,200
Speaker 1: East Coast coming up. We're gonna be doing a mini

1466
01:33:04,320 --> 01:33:08,800
Speaker 1: East Coast tour starting with Saturday, November three, We're going

1467
01:33:08,840 --> 01:33:12,280
Speaker 1: to be in Philadelphia at the Good Good Comedy Theater.

1468
01:33:12,800 --> 01:33:16,880
Speaker 1: Then on Sunday, November four, we're going to be in Washington,

1469
01:33:17,040 --> 01:33:21,080
Speaker 1: d C. More details to come with that show. And

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01:33:21,280 --> 01:33:24,040
Speaker 1: on Monday, November five, we are going to be in

1471
01:33:24,240 --> 01:33:26,400
Speaker 1: New York City as a part of the New York

1472
01:33:26,479 --> 01:33:30,240
Speaker 1: Comedy Festival. We're doing a show at Baby's All Right

1473
01:33:30,479 --> 01:33:33,719
Speaker 1: in Brooklyn, So we'll be posting updates and ticket links

1474
01:33:33,760 --> 01:33:37,240
Speaker 1: on our social media and on our website Backtelcast dot com.

1475
01:33:37,600 --> 01:33:40,320
Speaker 1: Go to the live appearances tab and we will have

1476
01:33:40,520 --> 01:33:44,559
Speaker 1: more details posted there. Also, we have another live show

1477
01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:48,840
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles at The Ruby on Saturday, November ten

1478
01:33:49,120 --> 01:33:53,640
Speaker 1: at nine pm, so keep abreast of the information via

1479
01:33:54,080 --> 01:33:58,120
Speaker 1: I did via our Twitter and Instagram. We will post

1480
01:33:58,320 --> 01:34:02,320
Speaker 1: the updates there. And I'm going to be in Boston

1481
01:34:02,400 --> 01:34:06,880
Speaker 1: doing stand up from October seventeenth through the two so

1482
01:34:07,080 --> 01:34:10,360
Speaker 1: check out my website Caitlin n dot com slash shows

1483
01:34:10,439 --> 01:34:13,360
Speaker 1: for more details on that. I'm also going to be

1484
01:34:13,400 --> 01:34:18,920
Speaker 1: teaching a screenwriting workshop on October at Improv Boston, so

1485
01:34:19,080 --> 01:34:21,280
Speaker 1: come on down to that if you want to learn

1486
01:34:21,360 --> 01:34:25,840
Speaker 1: from someone who does have a master's degree in screenwriting

1487
01:34:25,840 --> 01:34:28,360
Speaker 1: from Boston University. But again, I hate to bring it up.

1488
01:34:28,920 --> 01:34:32,200
Speaker 1: Check that out. Check out our live shows if we're

1489
01:34:32,240 --> 01:34:36,040
Speaker 1: coming to a city near you and we would love

1490
01:34:36,120 --> 01:34:41,160
Speaker 1: to see you there. Yeah. I think that about does it. Also,

1491
01:34:41,520 --> 01:34:45,160
Speaker 1: one last thing, go to our merch store t public

1492
01:34:45,200 --> 01:34:50,120
Speaker 1: dot com slash feedback doecast. You can buy and send

1493
01:34:50,200 --> 01:34:52,800
Speaker 1: us your picks. We love seeing your picks wearing the march.

1494
01:34:52,880 --> 01:34:55,519
Speaker 1: That makes us very happy. Yes, we love. We love

1495
01:34:55,600 --> 01:34:59,880
Speaker 1: posting it to our indeed, so yeah, grab your feminist icon, queer, i,

1496
01:35:00,360 --> 01:35:05,240
Speaker 1: et cetera, shirts, notebooks, phone cases, mugs, anything you want

1497
01:35:05,520 --> 01:35:10,000
Speaker 1: on TI Public and Jamie, thank you so much once

1498
01:35:10,040 --> 01:35:14,040
Speaker 1: again for being here with me. Thank you for being

1499
01:35:14,320 --> 01:35:19,560
Speaker 1: my friend, and thank you for helping the world navigate

1500
01:35:20,160 --> 01:35:24,960
Speaker 1: through this hellscape with your many pages of notes and

1501
01:35:25,000 --> 01:35:28,479
Speaker 1: your color coding. And I love you. I love you.

1502
01:35:29,479 --> 01:35:33,800
Speaker 1: Let's go to Gilmore Girls trivia. Do it right everyone, Bye,