1 00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Also media. 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 2: Uh, welcome back to it could happen here a podcast 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 2: about the things that are happening all around us, including 4 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 2: shockingly in the last week something we did not expect 5 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 2: two weeks ago, the fall of the Assad regime, which 6 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 2: our official stance as a network is that fuck him. 7 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 2: This is pretty good, but a lot of people feel differently, 8 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 2: And to talk with me about that. Another guy who's 9 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 2: always angry about Syria and also has been to Syria, James, 10 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 2: And you know, just as a note, I think a 11 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 2: lot of the people podcasting about this right now are 12 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 2: talking about a place they've never been, although James and 13 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 2: I have not been. 14 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 3: To EdLib, so you know, it's true. 15 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 2: We're going to be fairly focused on our experiences in 16 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 2: the Kurdish regions. But at least we're not just bullshitting 17 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 2: about a place that we've read about on the internet. 18 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, claiming deep on the ground understanding of a place 19 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 4: from ready, yes that is not us. Yeah, we I 20 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 4: briefly look to regime held Syria. 21 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, over from a commisiala where there is 22 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 2: kind of the governance capital of Rojava but is also 23 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:10,639 Speaker 2: a big chunk of it was held by the assad regimes. 24 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 2: You would just periodically, like see that fucker's face on 25 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 2: the wall as you were a crossing the street. 26 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 4: It's a good times. But my fixer would come around 27 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 4: at noon for whatever reason. When I was in Rajava, 28 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 4: and like, I hate to sit in the hotel, so 29 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 4: I'd go out for walks around the market. Yeah, not 30 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 4: advised by the old safety people. 31 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 2: But no, one of the sketchiest cities I've been in 32 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,919 Speaker 2: because of the presence of regime troops. Yes, yes, everything 33 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 2: else was lovely. Yeah, people are lovely. 34 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. 35 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 4: I'd be walking down the street and like I'd be 36 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 4: looking around, see has anything interesting to go and see? 37 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 4: And then you can literally take one wrong turn down 38 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 4: the street and walk into to regime Syria, as you 39 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 4: covered in in the Women's War. Like I was walking 40 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 4: down one street and this man walked up to me 41 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 4: and m curtis, she's not very good. Tried to say hello, 42 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 4: told in my name and stuff, and then he starts 43 00:01:57,360 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 4: getting more agitated, and he just starts repeating at higher 44 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 4: and hier volume, a sad bad man. Yeah, stay away, bro, 45 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 4: stay away. He's like, you're going to fucking die to 46 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 4: be a fucking of all. 47 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 5: Yeah, girl expars to that guy. 48 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, Bashi Barshi. 49 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 5: Yeah it is. It was a very straight situation. 50 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 4: It is no longer a straight situation because in the 51 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 4: last week the A side regime has crumbled. Statues of 52 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:25,519 Speaker 4: him have been torn down all over the country, which 53 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 4: we love to see. It's another of us dancers other 54 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 4: network is fuck a statue? 55 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, fuck most statues. 56 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 4: Most statues are probably some cool one does the lady 57 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 4: hitting the Nazi with a handbag in Sweden? That's a 58 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:40,959 Speaker 4: good statue. But yeah, most statues, most statues of dudes 59 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 4: in suits. Don't love them. 60 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 2: No, very few dudes in suits. I want to see 61 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 2: a statue of. 62 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, I can't think of any right now. 63 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not coming to me. 64 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm sure it will. 65 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,399 Speaker 4: So these statues have been torn down because your said 66 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 4: regime has basically crumbled. It failed to really put up 67 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 4: any meaningful resistance to disadvance by different rebel groups, right 68 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 4: by HTS, by SNA, by the Southern Front as well. 69 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 4: And despite I guess even what I would have said 70 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 4: two weeks ago, right even after they lost Aleppo, I 71 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 4: assumed that they would regroup in Hama or Homs and 72 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 4: they did not. 73 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 5: They completely failed to do so. 74 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 4: Their Russian backers more or less abandoned them, focused on 75 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 4: getting their stuff and their people. Those who survived out 76 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 4: of the country, and as a result, there is no 77 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 4: more a SAD regime, right A SAD fled the country 78 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 4: at some point. It was initially speculated that a Sad 79 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 4: had fled on an aircraft on Saturday night as rebels 80 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 4: were entering Damascus. That seems to be untrue, or perhaps 81 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 4: it was true, but the speculation that aircraft had crashed 82 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 4: or been shut down, certainly it does not seem to 83 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 4: Sad now seems to be. 84 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 3: I think. 85 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 2: Look, I made the call about two days before the 86 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 2: regime fell that I felt he was out of the country, 87 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 2: based on some reporting, including reporting from the scene regime, 88 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 2: that he'd gone to Iran first. I think he left 89 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 2: days before it fell. I don't think he's He's got 90 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 2: enough instinct for self preservation that I think he got 91 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 2: the fuck out of there. 92 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, he didn't want to be found in a hole 93 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 4: in the ground like here, or end up like Canafi. 94 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 5: I guess, so he left. 95 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 4: It's quite possible that he was doing a sort of 96 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 4: final please please help me tour of Russia run, which 97 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 4: turned turned into his eventual exile. 98 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 5: In breaking news, Robert, I don't know. 99 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 4: I don't know if you've seen this telegram post, and 100 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 4: obviously we can't confirm it because we don't have a 101 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 4: direct Clansiasad regime, but allegedly he is planning on setting 102 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 4: up a specialized hospital in the field of ophthalmology in Russia, 103 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 4: Abkhazia and Dubai. 104 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. Great, great place for him to be working. 105 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, wonderful, cool stuff. Yeah cool. Yeah, not at the 106 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 4: Hague where he belongs. And yeah, anyway, he's gone. And 107 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 4: we have seen in response, like some of the worst 108 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 4: social media posting that I've seen, And I don't want 109 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 4: this to be like like Twitter review. I think that 110 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 4: obviously that's pointless and pure ut but I want to 111 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 4: address I guess this kind of really disappointing response I've 112 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 4: seen from a lot of people on the left that 113 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 4: oh yeah, well, either I mean, you have the like 114 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 4: the grey zone tendency, right that a sab was great 115 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 4: actually in the protection of human rights in the region, 116 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 4: and the like the Syria was socialism in Karna, which 117 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 4: is obviously nonsense, right, Like, this is a person who 118 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 4: as we have seen in the last week whose regime 119 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 4: prisons were holding thousands of people, killed, tens of thousands 120 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 4: of people, tortured people to death in some cases in 121 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 4: Sednaia Prison, which is a big prison in Damascus, certainly 122 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 4: a Damascus, I should. 123 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:40,480 Speaker 5: Say, it's towards the coast. 124 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 4: It looks as if there were children in that prison 125 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 4: who were possibly born in that prison and may have 126 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 4: never been out of that prison, which is like one 127 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 4: of the most horrible things I've ever had to think about, 128 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 4: you know, like like a little child four or five 129 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 4: years old never having seen the sky. 130 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 5: It's just it's heartbreaking. 131 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 4: Like a lot of the things we are going to find, 132 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 4: the things we're going to hear about in the next 133 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 4: few weeks are heartbreaking. 134 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 5: And anybody who's. 135 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 4: Prepared to apologize for that or prepared to say that 136 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 4: that was good, I think you really need to question 137 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 4: if there's someone who's aligned with you. 138 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 5: But in addition to. 139 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:20,799 Speaker 4: That tendency, there's one that sort of holds that in Syria, 140 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 4: like what will come next is worse right, what will 141 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 4: come next? 142 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:26,280 Speaker 5: Or we don't know? 143 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 4: Of course, we don't know what will come next. None 144 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 4: of us can see the future. But what will come 145 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 4: next will make a sad look like it was a 146 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 4: preferable option, and like, I feel that we need to 147 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 4: address that because I think it's one of the long 148 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 4: legacies of authoritarian socialists. How do I say this, like 149 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 4: the authoritarian socialist media project. 150 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 2: And that kind of colliding with the Iraq War anti 151 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 2: anti war movement. Yes, you know, yeah, the whole hands 152 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 2: off Syria thing that groups like the PSL, the Party 153 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 2: for Socialism and Liberation, we're doing when the rebel started 154 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 2: this offense of being like we've got to stop you know, 155 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 2: these US backed rebels from taking uh, you know, Syria 156 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 2: for the Empires, Like, man, the fuck it. It's not 157 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 2: the US that was primarily backing the rebels that did 158 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 2: most of the fighting, Like these guys are Turkish backed, 159 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 2: you know yeah, yeah, the extent that that even matters, right, 160 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 2: Like the that like this is not the CIA did 161 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 2: not orchestrate all of this. The guys the CIA were 162 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 2: really trying to back in Syria basically all died Like. 163 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:28,679 Speaker 5: Yeah they've gone. 164 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 4: Some of the weapons, sure that the US supplied in 165 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 4: Timber Sycamore are probably stood in the hands of HTS, but. 166 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 2: Yes, some of them but like, even that's not the 167 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 2: bulk of the weaponry that those fuckers know using. 168 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 4: The entire weaponry of the Syrian and arabambi is also 169 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 4: in the hands of the HDS, which we'll move on 170 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 4: to actually, because maybe we should address that now before 171 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 4: we address responses. Actually, yeah, when we talk about international 172 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 4: involvement in Syria, right, we talk about the United States 173 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 4: who has supported the SDF, not as a project, and 174 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 4: this is important. They don't support the Democratic Autonomous Administration 175 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 4: Northern Assyria as a democratic project. What they support is 176 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 4: the SDF as a partner force in the fight against ISIS, 177 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 4: and that's been very clear when they have failed to 178 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 4: defend the Anes against genocidal violence, ethnic cleansing, and a 179 00:08:17,960 --> 00:08:22,119 Speaker 4: free right what we're seeing again now in the Talifat area. 180 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 4: I'll use that terminology because if you want to look 181 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 4: it up on Google Maps, that's easier to find the 182 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 4: violence that we've seen repeatedly from the Turkish back Syrian 183 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 4: National Army or Turkish Free Syrian Army as are sometimes called. Right, 184 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 4: the United States hasn't defended the people of the Ans 185 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 4: against and it won't because that's not what it's there 186 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 4: to do. And as much as we would like it too, 187 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 4: I don't think that as in the nature of the 188 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 4: US mission in Syria. And I don't think it's in 189 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 4: the nature of the US as a state to support 190 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 4: a project which is seeking to build democracy without the state. 191 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 5: It's not in the nature of the state. 192 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 2: We stumbled backwards, accidentally into exactly one, supporting the good 193 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 2: guys in the conflict, you know, specifically in the conflict 194 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 2: with ISIS. Yeah, like a broken cloak, and we immediately 195 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 2: ever since we have been trying as hard as we 196 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 2: can to pull back and you know, betray them, yes 197 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:15,319 Speaker 2: to their deaths like that. 198 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 3: That that is the story of US support of Rojava. 199 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not. This is not a US proxy state. 200 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 4: Some people are trying to tell you, this is not 201 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 4: a CIA revolution of Some people are trying to tell you. 202 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 5: Indeed. 203 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 2: Now, part of what gives fuel for that is there 204 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 2: are a number of photos of like US troops really 205 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 2: vibing with the WHITEPG and YPJ, and they're vibing with them. 206 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 2: And you and I could both say this having been 207 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 2: with those people. 208 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 3: They're nice. Yeah, they're fun, they're chill folks. 209 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, they have good music and they like to done 210 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 4: generally cool people. Yes, yeah, I enjoy that company. I 211 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 4: have vibed with the WHITEPT you know, like. 212 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 2: It's hard not to see a bunch of young women 213 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 2: who like left isis captivity and immediately said give me 214 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 2: a gun. I'm going to learn how to use it, 215 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 2: and be like, yeah, that's pretty cool. Good for you. 216 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's one of the cooler things that's happened in 217 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 4: the Middle East in the past century. Like, the United 218 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 4: States does not have a plan for what has happened 219 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 4: in the last two weeks, and it appears to be 220 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:14,359 Speaker 4: trying to think on the hoof right now. Joe Biden's 221 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 4: foreign policy has been dog shit and it doesn't look 222 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 4: like he's going to pull a one eighty. Now. We 223 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 4: should not expect the United States to save for Java. 224 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 4: We should do everything we can to get the United 225 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,839 Speaker 4: States to continue supporting the people who gave more than 226 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 4: ten thousand of their children in the battle against ISIS. 227 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 4: The US didn't want to say ground troops right at 228 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 4: Bama didn't want to have another ground war. Noithery did Trump, 229 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 4: and so they got people from the SDF to do 230 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 4: the dying, and a lot of the killing were they 231 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 4: maintained an aerial presence, was a light ground footprint. We 232 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 4: shouldn't expect the US to show up for the people 233 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 4: who showed. 234 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 3: Up for it. 235 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 5: That's not in its nature. 236 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 4: The only state that had a plan for what happened 237 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 4: in the last two weeks appears to have been Israel. 238 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:03,559 Speaker 4: Disappointingly right, Russia and Iran seemed to have largely scrambled 239 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 4: extracted their state assets. Russia got some of its people out, 240 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 4: they took some of their aircraft out. Iran Likewise, the 241 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 4: US seems to be kind of scrambling. I'm sure there 242 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 4: are still some like Oda's, some special forces guys embedded 243 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 4: with the SDF. I'm sure that in the areas where 244 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 4: ISIS has written up, because in some areas where the 245 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 4: regime has pulled back, there has been an increasing presence 246 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 4: of ISIS sleeper cells trying to sort of once again 247 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 4: control territory and attack the SDF in those areas. I'm 248 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 4: sure that there are US special forces like directing air strikes. 249 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 4: But I don't think the US is going to come 250 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 4: and say brijha. But the only country that had a 251 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 4: plan was Israel, and what Israel's plan was was to 252 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:47,559 Speaker 4: invade Syria in the Golan Heights, right, to increase their 253 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 4: area of control, and then to bomb almost all of 254 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 4: the aircraft. And perhaps I don't know it also includes 255 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 4: air defense systems. But from what the IDF is saying today, 256 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 4: they have bombed all of the Syrian air Forces aircraft 257 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 4: that had fallen into rebel hands. This includes ammunition for 258 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 4: the aircraft and includes the ammunition dump at Kamishlow Airport. 259 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 4: About half an hour before Robert and I started recording 260 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 4: here on Monday, I saw a video from a friend 261 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 4: in Kamishlow of the ammunition dump at the airport, which 262 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 4: have previously belonged to the regime now belongs to the 263 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 4: a and ees exploding after it had been hit by 264 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 4: an IDFs. 265 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 5: Right. 266 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 4: So what they're trying to do, I guess, is deny 267 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 4: any of those weapons to people who they perceive as 268 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 4: a threat to their interests. Yep, and like there's been 269 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 4: I don't know if you're seeing this. Also, Robert by 270 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 4: a lot of like Israeli accounts being like, oh, we 271 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 4: stand with the curd Israel and the Kurds are won. 272 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 4: And first of all, I want to warn you. I 273 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,199 Speaker 4: want to warn you that we have an advertising breakcoming, Robert, 274 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:53,439 Speaker 4: is what I want to warn you about. 275 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 2: Oh well, speaking of well, actually not speaking of the IDF, thankfully, 276 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 2: but speaking about maybe the California State Highway Patrol. 277 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 3: Here's some ads. 278 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 5: We're back. Yeah. 279 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 4: Firstly, I think when you're seeing analysis about Syria, any 280 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 4: when he talks about things in terms of these monolithic blocks, 281 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 4: this ISRAELI counts. Often we will support the Curds. I 282 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:29,559 Speaker 4: would be sometimes I'll maybe use that to refer to 283 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 4: A and E S or the SDF. But I really 284 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 4: trend on too because it's it's a multi ethnic project, right, 285 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 4: Like the areas that we'll talk about in a minute, 286 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 4: where the SDF is being attacked those areas, the largest 287 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 4: component is the SDF is is Arab, Yeah, forces right, 288 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 4: and that that is the case in the SDF as 289 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 4: a whole. Actually, the majority of the SDF is now Arab. 290 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 5: Not not Kurdish. 291 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 4: I would be very skeptic of the expertise of anyone 292 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 4: who refers to things in these monolithic absolutes, right, the Sunnis, 293 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 4: the Shias, yeah, the allah Whites, the Kurds. There are 294 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 4: a lot of different groups in Syria, and those groups 295 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 4: are comprised of individuals, and those individuals shockingly have different 296 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 4: and distinct goals and experiences and desires. Like there are 297 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 4: absolutely Ala whites who will have remained loyal to us, 298 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 4: sad there are others who demonstrably did not, as we've 299 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 4: seen in the last week, right. And so I would 300 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 4: be skeptical of anyone who tries to paint things in 301 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 4: those terms. And I would be skeptical, to return to 302 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 4: what we were talking about earlier, Robert, of people who 303 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 4: tell you that, like we should expect the one I 304 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 4: see most is Syria to turn into Lebanon, right, And 305 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 4: like you and I have been talking about this before 306 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 4: we recorded, but that's not a useful example in my 307 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 4: mind of what we're likely to see in Syria, right. 308 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 4: And the reason for that is that like in Lebanon, yes, 309 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 4: there was there was like a US Air component, as 310 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 4: there is in Syria. 311 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 5: That's true. 312 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 4: But I don't understand why we would look at the 313 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 4: example of Lebanon, a place thousands of miles away, when 314 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 4: we have at least two examples of governance in Syria, right, 315 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 4: people who have been governing, in one case for more 316 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 4: than a decade, significant parts of Syria, like they have 317 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 4: a government project. In the case of the ANS, I 318 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 4: don't think it's fair to call it a state project. 319 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 4: Like they would tell you that they're trying to build 320 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 4: democracy without the state, which is something that which might 321 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 4: not be popular with states evidently, which doesn't let them 322 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 4: the support of many states, as we've seen. But we 323 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 4: have and with HDS in July and the Salvation Government. Right, 324 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 4: we have these two governance projects. They're extremely different, right. 325 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 4: The Salvation Government under HDS is people have been arrested 326 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 4: for playing music at their own weddings. It is neither 327 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:51,359 Speaker 4: democratic nor particularly liberatory. And then we have the ANS, 328 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 4: which I would argue is the only democracy in the 329 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 4: Middle least. Yeah, certainly the only democracy where people of 330 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 4: different ethnicities and genders matter the same amount. 331 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, certainly the like multi ethnic democracy. Yes, in the 332 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 2: Middle East, that's functional. 333 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, you're just straining the definition of democracy 334 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 4: if you're constraining it by ethnicity, right, Right, So I 335 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 4: think you can make a good case for it being 336 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 4: the only democracy in the Middle East. I saw this 337 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 4: really atrocious BBC interview this morning. Right, I'm trying to 338 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 4: network some networks now have reporters on the ground in Damascus, 339 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 4: and I've been trying to watch those to sort of 340 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 4: see sort of what's going on. It can be very 341 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 4: hard to just get your news from telegram like. I 342 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 4: would also caution people who are perhaps new to this, 343 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 4: who are finding these telegram channels to take everything you 344 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 4: read on there with the pinch of salt. 345 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 5: You'll see a lot of disinformation there. 346 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 4: One of the BBC had an expert on and he 347 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 4: was like, Oh, every time we see people pulling down 348 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 4: statues of dictators, I'm a bit concerned, and like, I 349 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 4: have to think about how to express this. It seems 350 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 4: to me deeply as lamophobic or bigoted or racist. I 351 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 4: don't quite know the white term to say, Oh, the 352 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 4: people of this country and the place is in the 353 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 4: last ten twenty years where we've seen people pulling statutes 354 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 4: of dictators have largely been in the Middle East. Right 355 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 4: to say that, oh, these people are incapable of self governance, 356 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 4: these people are incapable of living in peace with one another, 357 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 4: but like they're not. 358 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 5: We've seen that in Java, and I don't think. 359 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 4: That the right response now is to respond with skepticism, 360 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 4: to like the Syrian people's ability to live in peace. 361 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 4: They've been at war for fifteen years, fourteen years, thirteen 362 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 4: thirteen years, thirteen and a half years. But I think 363 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 4: that there is not an appetite for more killing, more dying, 364 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 4: certainly from what I've seen and what I've heard. 365 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,199 Speaker 3: No exhaustion is a factor here. 366 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:42,439 Speaker 2: Like you really cannot emphasize enough how long I mean, 367 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 2: HTS and the SNA have been at this and how 368 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 2: fucking tired, particularly like HTS has to be, Like this 369 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 2: has been more than a decade of constant terror and violence. 370 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 2: So I do think that that's going to be a factor, 371 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 2: and like what happened next, I should hope it will be. Yeah, 372 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 2: I mean some things I don't know how to interpret. Right, 373 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 2: HTS has asked the regime, police and authorities in cities 374 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 2: to stay on. Some of that is probably good, right, 375 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 2: Like the people who ensure that the water gets pumped, 376 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 2: I hope that they stay pumping the water. The people 377 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 2: who were the police side regime, it's here an Arab republic. 378 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 2: I don't want those people to stay on. I want 379 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 2: those people to fuck off, and I want those people 380 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 2: to be held accountable for the crimes it committed. But 381 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 2: it doesn't point to sort of wild sectarian violence. We 382 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,199 Speaker 2: don't have the situation we had in Iraq, right, Right, 383 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 2: we have a US occupation which sits inside its base 384 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,200 Speaker 2: is and it only leaves ce big lead to kill people. 385 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 2: Right from the perspective of the people living in a rack. 386 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 2: That that's what the US occupation look like for the 387 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 2: most part. Right, it's guys in big military vehicles who 388 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 2: kill civilians by mistake. 389 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 5: We don't have that here. 390 00:18:56,040 --> 00:19:00,080 Speaker 4: There's not that resentment, generational resentment that they're allowed the 391 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,479 Speaker 4: Islamic state to grow there. Now, the Islamic State did 392 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 4: grow through capturing a lot of state institutions, which which 393 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 4: is why Yes has done But I don't see that 394 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 4: same resentment, and they don't see that same desire for 395 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 4: sort of redemptive violence that we saw. That I might 396 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 4: be wrong, right, that there might be more into communal violence. 397 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 4: I have seen some videos of what looked like summary 398 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 4: executions in Damascus today. 399 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 5: That's very concerning. 400 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, but also I mean, look, there's some people who 401 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 2: need to be summarily executed. 402 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: In this you know. 403 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 5: Yeah, if you've got to shoot someone, fuck it. 404 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're looking at the photos of just like 405 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 2: thousands of shoes and decomposed bodies, dissolved ascid. That's aid 406 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 2: Naya prison. Like you're liberating those places, you catch anyone 407 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 2: who was working there. I'm not going to say that 408 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 2: that's a bad thing to do. I might do the 409 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 2: same thing, and there's that you in their circumstances. 410 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 4: Yeah, I can't blame somewhere. I can understand someone doing that. 411 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 3: What are you going to do? 412 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, I can understand that in the next few days 413 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 4: they will probably be more of that violence, because we 414 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 4: are literally in some cases opening the lid on some 415 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 4: of the west crimes against humanity of this century. 416 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and they are going to be catching There 417 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 2: are a lot of mok barrat, you know, secret police 418 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,360 Speaker 2: guys who didn't get out, who were throwing on We've 419 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,679 Speaker 2: got videos of them leaving the palace, throwing on civilian clothes. 420 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 3: Yep. 421 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 2: And I'm not going to be shocked if a lot 422 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 2: of the justice process of that is ugly. Now, I 423 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 2: do suspect that Joe Lannie is going to at least 424 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 2: grab a chunk of those guys and do trials because 425 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 2: he is really looking for state legitimacy, you know, and 426 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 2: that's one way you get it. Yeah, that's his project now, 427 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 2: But that's not going to be how all these guys 428 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 2: go down. 429 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 5: Some of these guys are going to die, and yeah. 430 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 2: They're just gonna get fucking got yeah. 431 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, and look they got a lot of people. They 432 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 4: kind of had it coming to him. I'm not particularly 433 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 4: concerned about that. I'm more broadly concerned with, like what 434 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 4: are you doing on the left? If you see people 435 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 4: in the streets, you see people tearing down statues of dictators, 436 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 4: you see people celebrating the end of a regime that 437 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 4: oppressed them for decades, and you meet go to, oh, 438 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 4: this is bad, Like why do you even bother? If 439 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 4: we don't believe that people can govern themselves, if we 440 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 4: don't believe that the people in the street are normally 441 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 4: the people who are right, and if we don't believe 442 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 4: that the downfall of tyrannical regimes is. 443 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 5: A good thing. 444 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, what what do you believe? 445 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 4: You know? 446 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 2: If you're just torturing it to be like, well, no, 447 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 2: you know, you and I both read that there was 448 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 2: a post earlier today with someone being like these leftists 449 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 2: purity politics, you know, to be angry that a side 450 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 2: kept a lid on radical Islam and isis and just 451 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 2: didn't do it super cleanly. And it's man, he was 452 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 2: fucking guessing children. 453 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 3: Like you, where are you here? Yeah? What is wrong 454 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 3: with you? Come on? Man? 455 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, this is yeah, this is a person who dropped 456 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 4: chlorine gas on blocks of flats with little children in them, right. 457 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 5: Like, yeah, fuck this guy. It's good that he's gone. 458 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 5: I wish he was dead. 459 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 4: I'm sad that he gets to go and be an mphthalmologist, 460 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 4: like he, of all people, needs to be held accountable 461 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 4: for his crimes. 462 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, some could have we get have a song 463 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 2: on antilirium kind of situation, right, Yeah, who's the Armenian 464 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 2: who shot a member of the Turkish government in Berlin? Yeah, 465 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 2: we could have something like that go down, God willing. 466 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you never know they Yeah, I guess people 467 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 4: there he's in Russia. 468 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 3: Now he's in Russia. 469 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:17,439 Speaker 5: Someone will find him and his in his high end 470 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 5: eye clinic one day. 471 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's probably going to be going back and forth 472 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 2: to Dubai. There's some Syrians who wound up in Dubai. 473 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 2: Somebody might stab them. 474 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,479 Speaker 4: Yeah, we can hope, but I want to take one 475 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 4: more break talking of stabbing. Maybe maybe we will get 476 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,479 Speaker 4: an advert for knives, you know, yeah, I've never had 477 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 4: a knife advert, have. 478 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 2: We No, I don't know that we have. And I 479 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 2: would sell the hell out of knives. 480 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 4: Yeah, almost any knives, even crappy gas stach Night, like, 481 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 4: if you make the ones that look like an oil slick, 482 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 4: get in touch with the advertising department at iHeartMedia. 483 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 5: We'll pimp them. All right, we're back. 484 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 4: That's thing I want to talk about, Robert, is how 485 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 4: the rebels won because there was not a lot of 486 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 4: fighting after the collapse of a Lepo, but before there 487 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 4: was fighting, and in part how that fighting went I 488 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 4: think led to the downfall of the morale of the 489 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 4: syrianat of army. Right, So there are some things here 490 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:21,120 Speaker 4: that both Robert and I are somewhat nerdy about about conflicts, 491 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 4: right like it there's something even when we're not attending 492 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 4: was we like to read about them. And you and 493 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 4: I both take a great interest in history, and I 494 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 4: think we'd be unwise to not look at this and 495 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 4: learn from it, especially with HTS who massively professionalized since 496 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 4: the ceasefire in twenty twenty, I think professionalists is probably 497 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 4: the right word like that command that technology, that the 498 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 4: way they operated looked a lot more like a modern 499 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,880 Speaker 4: military than it did, you know, the militias, Like I'm 500 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 4: sure you and I both remember the early Syrian of 501 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 4: a war for people who are a bit younger than us, 502 00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:00,400 Speaker 4: Like some of the most incredible improvised weapons that I've seen. 503 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,479 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there was literally at one point they had 504 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 2: an Ottoman era black powder cannon on the back of 505 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 2: a flatbed that they were using to hit regime positions. 506 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 4: That they had literally taken out of the museum in 507 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,200 Speaker 4: a leopard to get it out of the museum. 508 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 3: Fucking amazing stuff. 509 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 2: Like only I thought the top of like that sort 510 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 2: of thing was when fucking inserts in Afghanistan would use 511 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 2: seventeenth century jazails to shoot at US troops. But the 512 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 2: Ottoman cannon is really a was that's a flex. 513 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 5: Yeah, with a huge flex. 514 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 4: They they also worked, you know, they fired propane cylinders 515 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 4: out of huge tubes, these improvised mortors they called hell cannons, 516 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 4: Like really incredible and like it speaks to the ingenuity 517 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 4: of people and their desire not to be oppressed, right, 518 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 4: they desire to fight against state tyranny. But when we 519 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 4: compare that to what we saw with HTS in twenty 520 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 4: twenty four, a world of change right. In particular, I 521 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 4: think it was very interesting that they captured armored vehicles 522 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 4: and then they were able to combine armor and infantry 523 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 4: very effectively, which is not easy to do right, that 524 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 4: has eluded even some professional militaries. They also very effectively 525 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 4: used drones, both drones to drop bombs and drones to 526 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,679 Speaker 4: adjust their artillery and mortifier, which I think is something 527 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 4: that again like that modern militaries do, but it's not 528 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 4: easy to do right, and it's not like HDS could 529 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,360 Speaker 4: do massive exercises in the lead up to this operation, 530 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 4: like they seem to have professionalized very quickly. Another area 531 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 4: that they were you can see that they've learned a 532 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 4: lot from the conflicts in Ukraine and perhaps in Memmar too, 533 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 4: was their use of FPV drones, a first person in 534 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,919 Speaker 4: view drone. How do you describe it? It's like your 535 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:56,399 Speaker 4: eyes are on the front of the drone. Is that 536 00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 4: a good description, Robert, Yeah, it's like you're flying. And 537 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 4: there are videos of whole classrooms of HTS, I guess, soldiers, militants, 538 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 4: whatever you want to call them, practicing flying drones or 539 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,120 Speaker 4: using the controllers to play like a computer game where 540 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 4: you have to like go through checkpoints and follow a 541 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 4: route and things. And they seemed to have developed like 542 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,360 Speaker 4: a training course that then gave them this drone brigade, 543 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 4: which they used incredibly effectively. They had these massive first 544 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 4: person view drones that were almost like a sort of 545 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 4: Ersat's cruise missile, and it was I think one of 546 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:32,640 Speaker 4: those that penetrated some kind of command headquarters in Aleppo 547 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 4: in the early days of the battle there, killed several 548 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 4: important offices and commanders and helped to then spread that 549 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 4: panic which they rode all the way to Damascus. Right, So, 550 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 4: like this use of drones was extremely consequential. The other 551 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 4: thing that they used in which we've seen the SDF 552 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,920 Speaker 4: use a lot, is these pulse art thermal optics. So 553 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 4: a thermal optic sees heat, right, I guess would be 554 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,640 Speaker 4: the easiest way to describe it, and it maps heat 555 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,360 Speaker 4: in a visual fashion for the user, and in this case, 556 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,920 Speaker 4: they put them on their rifles and they're able to 557 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 4: see other people at night. Our friend Carl, who we 558 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 4: had on last week week before maybe Carl made a 559 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 4: really good video about thermal versus night vision on his 560 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 4: Arrange TV channel. I'll link it in the notes because 561 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 4: I think it's worth people checking out if they're not 562 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 4: familiar with this technology at all. The optics he used 563 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 4: were not the optics they're using, but these thermal optics. 564 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 4: You've seen them a lot with the SDF, especially in 565 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 4: a freen like they'll do these night missions, right, and 566 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,160 Speaker 4: when you look at the recording from the thermal optic, 567 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 4: it it looks like people are glowing because they are 568 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 4: the hottest things in that area, and it makes it 569 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 4: very easy to target people. And HDS us these a 570 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 4: lot when they were attacking a lapper, right, these thermal 571 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 4: optics that they mounted on their rifles, and they allowed 572 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 4: them to pretty much. The United States used to talk 573 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,640 Speaker 4: about owning the night right. Yes, it had night vision 574 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,199 Speaker 4: where no one else does. Night visions proliferated a long 575 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 4: way now and in that mean that some of the 576 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 4: ways that they used to use night vision they can't anymore. Like, 577 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,479 Speaker 4: for instance, they used to send out lasers that were 578 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 4: only visible and the night vision to aim weapons. If 579 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 4: your adversary has night vision as well, you've now created 580 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 4: a giant line that goes right back to you if 581 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 4: you're using a laser aiming device, so you can't do that. 582 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 4: But these thermal uptics, especially when they're fighting against Assyrian 583 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 4: Arabami who I mean, these conscripts are massively demoralized, right, 584 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,959 Speaker 4: They're underpaid, they're under fed. Did you meet any when 585 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 4: you were in raja But did you meet any people 586 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:29,400 Speaker 4: who defected? 587 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: Yes? 588 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 2: Yes, I'd met a number of people who had, and 589 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 2: some who had also had to flee, like from Aleppo 590 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 2: and whatnot, because they had been on like rebels fighting 591 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 2: the Assad regime, and some had wound up in the SDF, 592 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 2: some more just civilians living in the area. I also 593 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 2: there's also a number of folks who commuted like to 594 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 2: and from regime held territory just because like if you 595 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 2: were someone that wasn't particularly wanted, you could do that. Yeah, 596 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 2: it was a very confusing situation for a lot of people. 597 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, extremely And I think when you meet the people 598 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 4: who have been regime soldiers and come across often they're 599 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 4: like they seem to be happy being waiters or working 600 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 4: in the market in Rajaba because their pay was so 601 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 4: bad and their lives were so miserable as conscripts that 602 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 4: they'd rather just come and work, you know, any job 603 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 4: they can get in a nes And I think when 604 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 4: you've got those guys going up against well trained people 605 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 4: from HTS with these thermal optics, with these using drones, 606 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 4: that communications were solid. You know, you can tell from 607 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 4: their appearance that a lot of these guys are professionalized. 608 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 4: They were almost indistinguishable from US troops. Like I think 609 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 4: you and I had both responded to this tweet about 610 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 4: some YouTube guy was shocked that people were wearing helmets 611 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 4: and body armor, which that has been the esthetic of violence, 612 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 4: at least in places where the US has operated for 613 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 4: I know half a decade. 614 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 5: Would you say, like they're the sort of US Special Forces? 615 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 2: Look, yeah, I mean, and that's just the norm for 616 00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 2: dressing if you're fighting in a war anywhere on the 617 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 2: planet now, like whether you're the Russian Army or some 618 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 2: militia in Syria, it's you know, plate carrier, usually like 619 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 2: some sort of fast helmet, you've got you know, belt 620 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 2: with side arm mag pouches, and then usually either in 621 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 2: akam or some sort of ar style weapon. Like everybody 622 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 2: dresses that way. Everybody looks very similar yah now because 623 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 2: it's just the most kind of. I mean number one, 624 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 2: there's a lot of that gear lying around and it's cheap. 625 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 2: And number two like it works, it's a load out 626 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 2: that works. 627 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's very practical, yeah, for what they're doing. I 628 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 4: think number three as well, like we should not understate 629 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 4: the desire to look like your avatar and call of duty. 630 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, it's also looks cool. 631 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 2: It looks like being in a movie, and that is 632 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 2: all that matters a lot to the kind of young 633 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 2: men who start fighting in wars. 634 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, people, I think if you've not been you 635 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:50,959 Speaker 4: won't realize how young a lot of these people are. 636 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 4: This incredible professionism or incredible professionism. I overstating it. But 637 00:30:55,760 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 4: this dramatic change in the appearance and conduct of these rebels, 638 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 4: particularly HDS, occurred over about three or four years from 639 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 4: the ceasefire in twenty twenty to this offensive in twenty 640 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 4: twenty four, and I think it gives us an insight 641 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 4: into the way that war is changing. Right, that access 642 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 4: to information is easier than it ever has been, and 643 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 4: access to a lot of these technologies has proliferated massively 644 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 4: because we've seen in Myanmar, right, drones proliferate people three 645 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 4: D print little night vision goggles in Meanmas. Spoke to 646 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 4: Milk about it about a year and a half ago. 647 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 4: People remember Milk from our Meanma series about three D 648 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 4: printing little night vision goggles that use the camera from 649 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 4: you know, those security cameras that can kind of see 650 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 4: at night. They use those and then a tiny LCD screen. 651 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 4: Of course, drones are everywhere now, right, things like plate carriers. 652 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 4: Even you see rebels in Myanma wearing them, buying them 653 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 4: from Ali Express. Like all of the technology, all of 654 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 4: the tactics are also much easier to find on the internet. 655 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 4: You know, Robert and I have both spoken to people 656 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 4: who go who said they go on YouTube to learn 657 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 4: about like military tactics and small arms even and you know, 658 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 4: how to use different weapons systems when they capture them. 659 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 4: I think it's a real change in the way that 660 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 4: conflict is conducted, and it's one that we will probably 661 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 4: continue to see as like, you know, the world isn't 662 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 4: getting any more peaceful, nope, and with a lot of 663 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 4: you know, Russia and Iran took a massive l in Syria. 664 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 4: That doesn't mean that they're not gone as sort of 665 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 4: global actors. We will continue to see particular Russia obviously 666 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 4: fighting in Ukraine, and I think it's worth looking at 667 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 4: what happened in Syria so that we can understand what 668 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 4: we're going to see in other parts of the world YEP. 669 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 2: One of the ways I like to think about it 670 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 2: that is crucial for people don't understand, is that Syria 671 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 2: has largely been the laboratory in which the twenty first 672 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 2: century was cooked up, Like all of our futures have 673 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 2: to some extent been built in Syria. Both like this 674 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 2: is where we get a lot of the fuel behind 675 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 2: the right wing surge that has been occurring over the 676 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 2: last few years, started because of the refugee crisis, you know, 677 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 2: but also a lot of the tactics and weapons shit 678 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 2: that like Israel is doing right now in Gaza. Like 679 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 2: Syria was the lab to a significant extent for how 680 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 2: authoritarian regimes would crack down, and it was also the 681 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 2: impetus behind a lot of the most significant things that 682 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 2: have been happening over the last decade and change. 683 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 4: So it might still be already yes, Serem and the 684 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 4: Netherlands have stopped processing asylum applications from Syria, which is yeah, 685 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 4: which is concerning YEP, but Yeah, I think it's worth 686 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 4: continuing to keep an eye on I will continue to 687 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 4: post about it, we will continue to inform you about 688 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 4: it here, and we will continue to bring on people 689 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 4: who have more expertise and insight than we do. So yeah, 690 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 4: we hope you'll keep an eye on it. And I 691 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 4: just want to end by saying that like the democratic 692 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 4: project in Rojava is under a great deal of threat. 693 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,719 Speaker 5: Yes, currently more than it has been for perhaps a decade. 694 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 3: YEP. 695 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 4: They do not have an ally in the United States. 696 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 4: They do not, as far as we know, have an 697 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 4: ally in Israel. And from what we've seen, it's one 698 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,839 Speaker 4: thing what Israel says, it's another thing what Israel does, 699 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 4: and what Israel has been doing today is bombing ammunition 700 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 4: that they already have in the A Andes. And that 701 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 4: means that it's more important than ever that you do 702 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,320 Speaker 4: what you can to support them. If you go to 703 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,800 Speaker 4: the Emergency Committee for a Java, you can find them online, 704 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 4: you find them on all different kinds of social media. 705 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 4: They have a toolkit for supporting Java right now. I 706 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,839 Speaker 4: would urge you if you care about that project, if 707 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,359 Speaker 4: you care about building democracy without the state, care about 708 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 4: building a place where women and men are equal, and 709 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 4: the revolution was led by women. It's not a revolution 710 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,880 Speaker 4: that included women, it's revolution by women for women. I 711 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 4: would encourage you to do what you can to support them, 712 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 4: all right, Yep, that's all. 713 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 1: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 714 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website 715 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 1: Polsonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 716 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. 717 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 5: Listen to podcasts. 718 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 1: You can now find sources for it could Happen here, 719 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,800 Speaker 1: listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.