1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Hey, Betrayal fans, I have exciting news to share. Season 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: three of Betrayal is now a docu series on Hulu. 3 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: It's the gripping story of Stacy Tyler and the doctor 4 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: who betrayed them. See the voices You've come to know 5 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: in Betrayal Under his Eye, streaming now on Hulu. 6 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 2: Within seconds, I get a Facebook message and he goes, 7 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 2: is this about your dad? And I got like a 8 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 2: chill down my back and I responded with yes, with 9 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 2: like a bunch of dots, and he immediately replied with 10 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 2: I know this because it happened to me too. 11 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Trail, a show about 12 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,119 Speaker 1: the people we trust the most and the deceptions that 13 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: change everything. Recently, a listener were calling, Taylor wrote into us. 14 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:15,839 Speaker 1: She grew up with her two parents and her older 15 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: brother in a small Midwestern town. 16 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 2: Very small town feel. Everyone kind of knew each other 17 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 2: in some capacity. Had to drive about an hour to 18 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 2: a decent mall. 19 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,559 Speaker 1: That mall was a place Taylor and her mom would 20 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: go shopping together. 21 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 2: We were kind of attached to the hip. At one point. 22 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 2: She would always say that I had to go shopping 23 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 2: with her because I was the only one who knew 24 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 2: where she parked her car. 25 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: Growing up, Taylor's mom was her best friend. 26 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 2: My mom was very demure, the trendy popular word to use. 27 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 2: She was quieter, and she was to stay at home 28 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 2: mom for most of our lives. 29 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: That gave her a lot of time to spend with Taylor. 30 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 2: She was always the one that pick up drop off. 31 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 2: She was definitely the default parent. She was a self 32 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 2: proclaimed bookworm. We both enjoyed reading together, playing with dolls. 33 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 2: She taught me how to bake, She taught me how 34 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 2: to cook. We always did things together. 35 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: Taylor's dad was the head of the household. He was 36 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: beloved in their family and in their community. 37 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 2: Easy go lucky, wore Margueriteaville t shirt, always had a 38 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 2: smile on his face. 39 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: Taylor's parents had been together since they were young. 40 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 2: My mom was pregnant when she was sixteen, he was twenty. 41 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 2: She dropped out of high school and he moved her 42 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 2: across the country to follow him to the Air Force. 43 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 1: That military background became part of the family culture. 44 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,519 Speaker 2: It was a pretty strict household growing up. We definitely 45 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 2: grew up with rules, and one of the rules was 46 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 2: do everything you're asked. 47 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: Striving to be a good daughter was really important to Taylor. 48 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,959 Speaker 1: She respected her parents. She even shared her dad's name. 49 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: My dad was Big Taylor and I was Taylor Lynn. 50 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: Big Taylor was a big sports guy. Some of my 51 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: happiest moments growing up revolver ond sports. I always played 52 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 1: a sport ever since I was five. She started with 53 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: her dad's sport, soccer. He was a well known soccer 54 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: coach in the area. 55 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 2: My dad coached my brother, he coached me. He coached 56 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 2: beyond both of us. 57 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: Everyone in their small town adored Taylor's dad. 58 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 2: He had the nickname of GC, which stood for a 59 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 2: goofy coach, because he kind of took the happy role 60 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 2: in the coaching situation, the good cop role. I did 61 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 2: not know a world that did not involve sports, but 62 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 2: I loved it. I got really involved in volleyball, especially 63 00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 2: travel volleyball. 64 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: Quickly the sport became her entire life. 65 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 2: Being good at volleyball and trying to get a scholarship 66 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 2: or trying to get a spot on a college team 67 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 2: was my biggest objective in high school. 68 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: She wanted to leave her small town and make it 69 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: to a big state school. 70 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 2: If I would have stayed at home and maybe even 71 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 2: played at the community college. That was out of the question. 72 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,679 Speaker 2: I didn't even want to talk to the community college coach. 73 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 1: Her dad could be hard on her, pushing her to 74 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: get better. 75 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 2: On the court. My dad looked like he was the 76 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 2: most supportive dad in the world because he would come 77 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 2: watch my practices. But if he thought I didn't play 78 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 2: well enough, or if he thought I wasn't practicing hard enough, 79 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 2: I would get pulled aside to a place where no 80 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 2: one could hear, or in the car on the way 81 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 2: home or at home, and he would say how terrible 82 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 2: I was, and how I'm half assing things, and just 83 00:04:56,160 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 2: be so mad at me. He'd had this dart side 84 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 2: where he would just flip a switch where nothing could 85 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 2: get him out of it. 86 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: The pressure from her dad could be intense. By her 87 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: senior year of high school, Taylor had made it onto 88 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: one of the best volleyball teams in the area. 89 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 2: We were really good. There wasn't a lot for my 90 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 2: dad to critique, so he kind of had to ease 91 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 2: up there. 92 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 1: Taylor's hard work paid off when she was accepted to 93 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: a liberal arts college on a volleyball scholarship. The school 94 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: was an hour away from her parents' house, so when 95 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 1: she started that fall, her dad came to every game. 96 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 2: He was my biggest cheerleader. He was being so great 97 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 2: to me. He was being the dad that I always wanted. 98 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,279 Speaker 2: He came to everything. He never critiqued how I played, 99 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 2: even when I didn't know the best game, which he 100 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 2: would have tore me apart when I was younger. For 101 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 2: some of that, and volleyball became like a happy space again. 102 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: But that pressure to be the best didn't go away. 103 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: After every mistake or lost game, she heard her dad 104 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 1: dad's voice in her head. 105 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 2: I still wanted him to think I was the best, 106 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 2: so I still tried hard. I worked as hard as 107 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 2: I could. Every summer, I would do all of the 108 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 2: workouts plus more to try to be the best that 109 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 2: I could. 110 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 1: Her relationship with her dad had ups and downs, but 111 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: her connection with her mom was steady. 112 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 2: We had those little moments where we felt like best 113 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 2: friends and people thought we were so fun together. 114 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: They even worked together when Taylor was home from college. 115 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 2: We both worked at Tjmax and it would be really 116 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 2: funny to page her from the fitting room and say, Mom, 117 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:36,840 Speaker 2: you need to come clear out the fitting room. 118 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: By the time Taylor graduated, she had developed a real 119 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 1: sense of self. 120 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 2: I was finally figuring out who I was, and it 121 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 2: took me all four years to do that. I came 122 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 2: out such a stronger, independent, hard working person who knew 123 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 2: that sports wasn't all that I was worth. 124 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: Once Taylor felt more secure in herself, she med a 125 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 1: really great guy, someone who truly valued her. 126 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 2: He's a babe first and foremost. He's six foot five. 127 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 2: I'm the people person and he is more of the strong, 128 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 2: silent type. But we really balance each other out. 129 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: Taylor started a career in marketing and coach girls volleyball 130 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: on the side. She and her boyfriend shared the same interests. 131 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: Their lifestyles just aligned. 132 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 2: We both worked really hard at our career. We both coached. 133 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:33,119 Speaker 2: I coached girls volleyball, he coached girls basketball. We worked 134 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 2: out together. 135 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: They got engaged and started planning a wedding. 136 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 2: Our wedding was great. My mom helped me get ready 137 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 2: with my bridesmaids. My dad helped walk me down the aisle, 138 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 2: had my father daughter dance. 139 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: Taylor talked to her dad on the phone almost every day, 140 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: and the family spent long weekends together as Taylor's husband 141 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: started spending more time with the family. 142 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 2: My husband would always mention how thick my dad laid 143 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 2: it on with me. Man, he just gushes over you. 144 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 2: It's kind of weird, it's kind of gross. And I 145 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 2: would just be like, well, I'm the golden child, I'm 146 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 2: the best and kind of justified as that. And it 147 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 2: took a long time for me to understand my dad 148 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 2: was just laying it on thick because he knew what 149 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 2: he did to me. 150 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: Taylor and her husband were settling into married life and 151 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,439 Speaker 1: beginning to plan and for a family of their own. 152 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 2: In twenty sixteen, my husband and I were actively trying 153 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 2: to have a baby. We got a house together, and 154 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 2: just really getting excited for my professional career to really 155 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 2: take off, and life was pretty. 156 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: Great at the time. Taylor had just started a new 157 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: career in social media marketing. 158 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 2: I always had to keep in mind what trending topics 159 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 2: were and how the brand could maybe resonate in some 160 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 2: of those. The me too movement started trending in twenty seventeen, 161 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 2: and it wasn't just a one day trend. Every single 162 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 2: day there were new trending tweets with the me too 163 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 2: hashtag that showcased stories of abuse. Seeing these headlines just 164 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 2: really put me in a dark place and put a 165 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:53,559 Speaker 2: dark cloud over my life. 166 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: Taylor's husband started noticing a change in her. 167 00:09:57,840 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 2: He thought maybe there was something wrong in our marriage, 168 00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 2: or it's something that he did to make me upset. 169 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 2: But I would go home from work and I just 170 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 2: wouldn't want to talk. I would just kind of try 171 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 2: to block everything out. 172 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:15,439 Speaker 1: After a few months, Taylor's husband encouraged her to start therapy. 173 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 2: And it was through therapy that really helped me understand 174 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 2: why I was feeling so upset seeing the Me Too movement. 175 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 2: That was a major thing that happened to me that 176 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 2: was not normal. I found a therapist and I first 177 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 2: just started talking about my relationship with my husband. I 178 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 2: think halfway into our first session, she asked me about 179 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 2: my family life, and I just blurted it out that 180 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:49,839 Speaker 2: my dad abused me growing up. 181 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: It was a truth that she buried for years. She 182 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: knew it happened, but she kept those memories locked away 183 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: to protect herself. That was until the Me Too movement 184 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: brought them back into her conscious awareness. 185 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 2: It was so far back in my mind, the memories 186 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 2: and reminders would truly only come out every once in 187 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,439 Speaker 2: a while in very weird situations, whether it be a 188 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 2: dream or when I was drinking with my friend, or 189 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 2: an episode of Law and Order SVU would just hit 190 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 2: way too close to what happened. I actually have to 191 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 2: stop watching that show. 192 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: With the support of a licensed therapist, she began revisiting 193 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 1: the memories she tried so hard to forget. As a 194 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 1: note to listeners, Taylor is about to describe her experiences 195 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: of sexual abuse. If it's best for you not to 196 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,199 Speaker 1: hear this, you can skip ahead two minutes. 197 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 2: The earliest time I can recall is around like three 198 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 2: or four years old, and I just remember being in 199 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 2: the dark with the TV on, laying next to my 200 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 2: dad and him pleasuring himself next to me. He referred 201 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 2: to it as helping him out, and so the phrase 202 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 2: ever since I can remember was Hey, I need you 203 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,319 Speaker 2: to come help me out, or how about you help 204 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 2: me out? Or well I could probably convince your mom 205 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 2: to unground you if you come help me out. It 206 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:41,559 Speaker 2: was his code word. I was crying like quietly, eyes shut, 207 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 2: gritting my teeth, silent, stiff as a board. As soon 208 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 2: as it would be over, I would get out of there, 209 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 2: out of that room as fast as I could, and 210 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 2: I would lock myself into my room. 211 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: The sexual abuse was a constant threat she navigated every day. 212 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 2: I drew being home alone with him at any instance 213 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,599 Speaker 2: my whole entire childhood. Anytime I could go to the 214 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 2: grocery store with my mom, I would go. Anytime I 215 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 2: could try to get out of the house, I would 216 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 2: get out of the house. I would even bring tons 217 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,319 Speaker 2: of food and snacks from the pantry and hide them 218 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 2: in my room to try to avoid going in and 219 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 2: out of my room, because there would be times where 220 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,719 Speaker 2: I would just walk past his room, and that's where 221 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 2: I would get the request to help him out. I 222 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 2: just knew growing up, the faster I could get it 223 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 2: over with, the faster I could leave. 224 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: He manipulated and threatened her into staying silent. When she 225 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 1: started looking back on her childhood, her fixation with sports 226 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,199 Speaker 1: started to make more sense. It wasn't just about getting 227 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: a scholarship. Volleyball gave her an escape from her dad 228 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: and her home. 229 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 2: Sports were also a great way to stay busy and 230 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 2: not be in the house, like I always try to 231 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 2: sign up for as much as I could and we 232 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 2: had to do a lot of traveling with that, so 233 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 2: the abuse wasn't as often, which was nice. It was 234 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 2: a nice break. 235 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: But volleyball wasn't always a reprieve. The bad moods her 236 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: dad would get in after she lost a game were 237 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: used to control her. 238 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 2: If I made a mistake. I was terrified what was 239 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 2: going to happen when I went home. The only way 240 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 2: for me to get out of trouble or not grounded 241 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 2: was to help him out. I would help him out, 242 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 2: and then everything would reset and we would be completely 243 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 2: back to normal. He would be an overly loving dad 244 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 2: for that time period, and I was just I would 245 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 2: go back to my room and be relieved, but at 246 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 2: the same time, I would be counting down the days 247 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 2: until I had to do this again. 248 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: Every time. She hoped it would be the last time, 249 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: but it went on right up until she left for college. 250 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 2: I get mad at myself sometimes, which is really hard 251 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 2: to deal with. I should have just called the police. 252 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 2: I should have told a teacher, but who knows if 253 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 2: they would have even taken me seriously because he was respected 254 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 2: in the community. 255 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: As soon as Taylor left for college, she buried the 256 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: memories of her dad's abuse. It was a survival mechanism 257 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: because she depended on her parents, and despite it all, 258 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: she still wanted a connection with them. 259 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 2: I relied on my family for a lot of things, 260 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 2: and you know, they supported me and they helped me 261 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 2: buy my first car. 262 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: Through years of abuse, she had been taught that love 263 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: was conditional and that it was her responsibility to make 264 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: her parents happy with her. That pattern of thinking stayed 265 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: with her even after the abuse ended. 266 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 2: So when a memory would come up, or when I'd 267 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 2: be in college and that definitely wasn't happy to me 268 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 2: and anymore, and I would think of something, I'm like, well, like, 269 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 2: you know, now, they're nice to me. Now, my dad 270 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 2: treats me like his best friend. And all those great 271 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 2: moments in my mind at that time outshadowed some stuff 272 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 2: in the past, because hey, that's done, that's over, and 273 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 2: look at how nice he is to me now. And again, 274 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 2: I would talk to my dad or my mom like 275 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 2: every other day, and never at a time where we'd 276 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 2: be talking would I be thinking about that, because I 277 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 2: was so focused on how good it was to have 278 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 2: a supporting dad or loving dad. It was definitely everything 279 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 2: that I was craving growing up, and I feel like 280 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 2: I was trying to take full advantage of that as 281 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 2: an adult. 282 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: But as hard as she tried to keep it out 283 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: of her mind, those memories sometimes came back up. 284 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 2: There would be time all throughout my life where I 285 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 2: would remember, like, oh, yeah, I remember that terrible stuff 286 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 2: you seda happen to you. I even remember this was 287 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 2: probably twenty fourteen, living in a different city, and my 288 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 2: friend and I were drinking, you know, just young twenties, 289 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 2: getting ready for a night on the town, and I 290 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 2: don't know what triggered it, but all of a sudden, 291 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,159 Speaker 2: I just started crying. And I've never told anyone up 292 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 2: to that point, and I told her what had happened 293 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 2: to me, and she gave me the biggest hug and 294 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 2: we kind of just talked about it. 295 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 1: But back then Tiler wasn't ready to confront the reality 296 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 1: of what her father had done to her. 297 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 2: And the next day she was like, I remember what 298 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 2: you told me. If you ever needed to talk to me, 299 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 2: let me know. And I just kind of was embarrassed 300 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 2: that I even brought it up. I didn't want anyone 301 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 2: to look at me as a victim or think of 302 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 2: me like as gross you know, for that happened to 303 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 2: me as like damaged even my friends. 304 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: Taylor felt like if she came forward it would destroy 305 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 1: her family. 306 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 2: And I would quickly be like, well, your family's all 307 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 2: that you have. Do you want to blow up your 308 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 2: whole life? And I turned out okay, so it really 309 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 2: must have not done that bad. And if I'm going 310 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 2: to bring it up, then I'm just being a drama queen. 311 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 2: Or maybe people aren't even going to believe me, so 312 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 2: why would I even bring it up. So that's kind 313 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 2: of how I would talk myself out of it and 314 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 2: kind of push those memories back down. 315 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: By twenty seventeen, when she saw other survivors coming forward 316 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: and being believed, something shifted for Taylor. She couldn't keep 317 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 1: the memories at bay anymore. 318 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 2: I would cry on my way to work sometimes out 319 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 2: of the blue, because I started having those memories that 320 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,120 Speaker 2: were just unavoidable, and I couldn't really push them back 321 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 2: like I had been doing all those years. 322 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: With the help of her therapist, she integrated those experiences 323 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: into the story of her life, but she still wasn't 324 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: ready to confront her parents. And then my husband and 325 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: I were trying to have our first child, and. 326 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 2: The minute I found out I was pregnant, I just 327 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 2: wanted to keep this thing safe. I was getting very 328 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 2: protective over my future baby and really was having a 329 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,120 Speaker 2: hard time and had to talk to my therapist about 330 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 2: do I wanted to have a relationship with my dad 331 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 2: knowing what happened to me. Finally, my therapist suggested, well, 332 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 2: have you ever talked to your mom or told your 333 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 2: mom about this? And that really opened the door to 334 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 2: I need to bring light to this or I don't 335 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 2: know what's going to happen next. 336 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 1: It was the last thing she wanted to do, but 337 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: now that she had a baby on the way, she 338 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: knew she couldn't interact with her parents without addressing her 339 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: dad's abuse. She hadn't told anyone except her college friend 340 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,360 Speaker 1: and now her therapist. If she was going to confront 341 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 1: her parents, he needed to tell her husband first. 342 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 2: My husband and I were driving a car and I 343 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 2: was still not mentally in a great place that I said, Okay, 344 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 2: do you want to know why I am in therapy? 345 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 2: And I said there was a family member that abused 346 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 2: me sexually abused me growing up. And then I was 347 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 2: able to tell him that it was my dad, and 348 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 2: he instantly wanted to drive two hours to go see 349 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:34,159 Speaker 2: him and confront him. He was supportive a thousand percent 350 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 2: of the way. He is a fierce protector. He would 351 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 2: do anything for me. 352 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: But she wanted to do this on her own. He 353 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 1: respected that and supported her as she made a plan. 354 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: But in the meantime she distanced herself. 355 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 2: I definitely became a little bit more distant to them, 356 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 2: you know, blamed like, oh, work is really busy, card 357 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,719 Speaker 2: a lot going on. All my anger was directed at 358 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 2: my dad, not my mom. 359 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 1: She knew her mom would be on her side. She 360 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: was her best friend. One time, when Taylor was young, 361 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: her mom even asked her if something was wrong. 362 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 2: I remember I was five or six years old, and 363 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:18,919 Speaker 2: she asked me if my dad ever touched me. And 364 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 2: I remember saying to her just because I was so 365 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 2: scared that I said no and just kind of let 366 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 2: it go. 367 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: But now, as an adult, she was ready to answer 368 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:37,239 Speaker 1: that question. Honestly. A few months into Taylor's pregnancy, her 369 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: mom invited her on a shopping trip. Taylor decided, this 370 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: was the time. 371 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 2: I took my mom to just a little cafe and 372 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 2: I said, I have something to tell you. It's really 373 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 2: hard for me growing up. Dad sexually abused me. I'm 374 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 2: now pregnant and I'm terrified that something's going to happen 375 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 2: to this kid, and I just need you to know. 376 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 2: And she immediately started crying, and I started crying, and 377 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 2: she said, you know, I really there was this one 378 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 2: time that he was holding you weird that I really 379 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 2: thought maybe, but you told me it wasn't happening. Why 380 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 2: didn't you ever tell me? Like? She just kept like 381 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 2: crying and asking me that, and I just kept telling 382 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 2: your dad told me not to like he said, I 383 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 2: would get in trouble if I told you. She was 384 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,439 Speaker 2: just super upset, gave me all the hugs, told me 385 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 2: how sorry she was that that happened. And I went 386 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 2: home to where I lived at the time, and she 387 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,439 Speaker 2: went home with the plan to confront my dad. 388 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: It was a huge relief, but she knew that confrontation 389 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 1: would change her parents' relationship forever. 390 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 2: I was in hopes that she was going to leave him. 391 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 2: I offered her replace to live with us. We would 392 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:00,919 Speaker 2: help so or her financially. 393 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 1: Taylor didn't hear anything from her parents for a few days. 394 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: The whole time she was Bracing for her dad's reaction, 395 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: she and her husband prepared for her mom to move in, 396 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: but Taylor was surprised when a few days later she 397 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: received a call from her dad. 398 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 2: My dad then called me and asked me to meet 399 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 2: him at a halfway point in like a Walmart parking lot. 400 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 2: He said he wanted to talk and apologize. So it 401 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,479 Speaker 2: wasn't even like an angry call. It was a we 402 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 2: need to talk. I'm just so sorry. Can we please 403 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 2: meet somewhere? Will you ever forgive me? 404 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 1: Taylor was hopeful that her dad would apologize, acknowledge the 405 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: impact of what he'd done, and get help. 406 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 2: I thought maybe this could turn around into a story 407 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 2: that had some sort of reconciliation or some sort of 408 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 2: alternate ending. So I wanted to be a little bit 409 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 2: open there because I did love him. 410 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: With that in mind, she agreed to meet him. 411 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 2: So we meet at the Walmart parking lot. 412 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,959 Speaker 1: For her own protection, she decided to document the conversation. 413 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: I actually started recording with. 414 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 2: My phone, and he just starts going off on how 415 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 2: sorry he is and he doesn't get those thoughts anymore, 416 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 2: and how good I turned out, and could I ever 417 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 2: forgive him? I didn't have an answer for him. If 418 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 2: I could forgive him, I said, I don't know, and 419 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 2: he goes, do you still love me? I said yes, 420 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 2: because that's my dad. 421 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: They sat in her car for an hour crying. His 422 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,920 Speaker 1: apology felt genuine. It was the first time he ever 423 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: acknowledged what he'd done. 424 00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 2: Once they parted ways, I immediately called my mom and said, hey, 425 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,439 Speaker 2: I just met up with dad. He said he was 426 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 2: so sorry, Like, how did your conversation go? And this 427 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 2: is when she told me that he denied it, denied everything, 428 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 2: said I was crazy, said I was making it up 429 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 2: for attention, and she didn't know what to believe anymore. 430 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 2: And I said, mom, I have a recording of him apologizing, 431 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 2: and she goes, hold on, your father's calling me and 432 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 2: so hangs up, calls me back. Yeah, he just said, 433 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 2: you admitted that you were lying. The minute I got home, 434 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 2: I sent her all the recording. It was like an 435 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 2: hour long, and he never once in the recording said 436 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 2: I'm sorry for sexually abusing you as a child. But 437 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 2: he said, I am sorry. Can you forgive me? I 438 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 2: don't get these thoughts, And she said, well, he could 439 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 2: have been apologizing that anything. She just flipped the switch 440 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 2: completely to not believing me. 441 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 1: After confiding in her mom about the abuse she experienced 442 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: as a child, Taylor's dad reached out. He said he 443 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: wanted to apologize, so she met him in person. To 444 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 1: her surprise, he took accountability and was apologetic. She recorded 445 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: the conversation on her phone, but when Taylor sent that 446 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: audio to her mom. 447 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 2: She thought I manipulated the recording. She just flipped the 448 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 2: switch completely to not believing me. This began a painful 449 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 2: back and forth. Taylor was desperate to prove the truth 450 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:47,400 Speaker 2: to her mom. I had multiple phone calls at lunch 451 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 2: break at work trying to convince her that yes, this 452 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 2: happened to me, sharing very specific instances or phrases that 453 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 2: he would use, like how do you not believe me? 454 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,959 Speaker 2: This went on for months Throughout my whole pregnancy. My 455 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 2: mom was going back and forth with believing me or not, 456 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 2: which was extremely stressful for me because I wanted her 457 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 2: in my life. I wanted her to be my son's grandma. 458 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: As she got closer to her due date, she tried 459 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,360 Speaker 1: to have one final conversation with her parents together. 460 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,159 Speaker 2: Probably halfway through my pregnancy. I did show up at 461 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 2: their house and they were both home. She stepped out 462 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 2: of the room and she's like, I need a minute. 463 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: As soon as her mom left the room. 464 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,440 Speaker 2: My dad was acting so weird and definitely scared. He 465 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 2: went from remorseful to angry and said, I don't understand. 466 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 2: You turned out great. This wasn't a problem when we 467 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,880 Speaker 2: bought you clothes, this wasn't a problem when we bought 468 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 2: you a car. And I freak out and start crying 469 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 2: and going. So that was supposed to make it okay. 470 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 2: My mom turns the corner, she goes, what's going on. 471 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 2: I'm like, he's just justifying it with all of these reasons, 472 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:59,200 Speaker 2: and I left and at that point I quit trying. 473 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 1: That was the moment she decided to cut her dad off. 474 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 2: I have not talked to him looked at him since 475 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 2: that moment when I fully understood that he does not 476 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,880 Speaker 2: love me the way that he says he did. 477 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 1: Distress took a toll on her health and her pregnancy. 478 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,880 Speaker 2: I was thirty seven weeks and my ob was like, hey, 479 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 2: you don't really have a lot of fluid. You might 480 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:32,880 Speaker 2: want to go to the hospital because they might want 481 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 2: to deliver the baby early. And this is my first kid, 482 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 2: and I was like, what My first instinct was to 483 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 2: go to my work and get my laptop for some reason, 484 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 2: and I just started like crying on the stairs at work, 485 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 2: and people at work were so nice, and I was like, 486 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 2: I'm not ready to be a mom, and they're like, 487 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 2: You're going to be great. 488 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: She called her husband too, met her at the hospital. 489 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 1: They didn't even have their hospital backpacked. A few hours later, 490 00:28:58,120 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: their son was born. 491 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 2: Was born perfect, with blonde, curly hair and just adorable 492 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 2: and so loved. I had friends visit me in the hospital, 493 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 2: my in laws. 494 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: Her mom showed up too, but she was distant. 495 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 2: The minute the baby was born, she gave my son 496 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 2: a kiss on the forehead and said that she was 497 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 2: leaving just extremely weird. 498 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: Taylor and her mom barely spoke for months. That was 499 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: until Taylor's grandma passed away. 500 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 2: I went to my grandmother's house to pick up some 501 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 2: things and help them move some stuff around. My mom 502 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 2: was bringing up like happy memories and trying to talk 503 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 2: to me about the baby and just trying to pretend 504 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 2: like everything was normal. That's when I had the conversation 505 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 2: with my mom, like stop skirting around this. I gave 506 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 2: her the ultimatum. I said, you either believe me and 507 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 2: stand by me and you are in this child's life, 508 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 2: or I can not have a relationship with you anymore. 509 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 2: She just finally straight up. Her reaction was I don't 510 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 2: believe you, and I go okay, and I locked and 511 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 2: that was the last time we've ever spoke, which was 512 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 2: probably the hardest thing, hardest conversation her and I ever had. 513 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: For Taylor, this was the ultimate betrayal. 514 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 2: I truly believed after we talked in that cafe that 515 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 2: she believed me. 516 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 1: It was also an incredible loss. 517 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 2: It was very devastating to think of a world where 518 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 2: I just don't have a mom. 519 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: But Taylor had to protect her child, even if that 520 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: meant cutting off her mom. 521 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 2: And I feel so sorry for her because to this day, 522 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 2: she's financially, emotionally, she's just everything is under the rule 523 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 2: of my dad. She has always been so controlled by 524 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 2: my father, could never have her own opinion. I never 525 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 2: saw her hang out with friends unless they were wives 526 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 2: of my dad's friends. While my dad was hanging out 527 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 2: with his friends. I truly think that there were times 528 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 2: where I was her only friend, and I definitely missed 529 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 2: that friendship, but I also have to do what's right 530 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 2: for my family. Sorry, that wouldn't hit me kind of hard. 531 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,959 Speaker 2: It's funny I'm angry about my mom, but I'm just 532 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 2: I'm like mourning the loss of my mom and she's 533 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 2: not even dead. And I get so upset still when 534 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 2: I see my friends and their moms are so involved 535 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 2: with their kids. It's just not fair. 536 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: For a while, this was something Taylor handled privately, but 537 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: over time, Taylor felt more empowered to share what happened 538 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: to her. 539 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:06,479 Speaker 2: One day, I was on Facebook and there was just 540 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 2: a post and it was kind of like a meme 541 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 2: style where it said reason number like three hundred and 542 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 2: blah blah blah why abuse victims don't come forward? And 543 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 2: all I did was hit share. I didn't say like, yep, 544 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 2: this happened to me. It was just like resharing a post. 545 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 2: Within seconds, I get a Facebook message and it is 546 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 2: from my older cousin. He's about ten years older than me. 547 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 2: He goes, hey, what's this about. 548 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: It was a cousin she would see once or twice 549 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 1: a year at family events. We'll call him Henry. She 550 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: kept it big, told him it was something she was 551 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 1: working through. 552 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 2: And he responds with, is this about your dad? I 553 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 2: got like a chill down my back and I responded 554 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 2: with yes, with like a bunch of dots, and he 555 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 2: immediately replied with I know this because it happened to 556 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 2: me too. It was like eleven o'clock at night. I'm 557 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,280 Speaker 2: in my bedroom. I just start crying, and he proceeds 558 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 2: to tell me that when he was young, around five 559 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 2: years old, my dad sexually abused him, and the exact 560 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 2: same things that he used to say to me. He 561 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 2: said to my cousin, Henry of helping him out. My 562 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 2: cousin said he'd never told anyone because he was so afraid. 563 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 2: We started talking like every other day on the phone 564 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 2: and just sharing experiences and like support for one another. 565 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 1: It was the first time she felt seen as. 566 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 2: Unfortunate as it was that it happened to both of us. 567 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 2: I felt like I had someone who fully understood what 568 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 2: I went through, believed me, and was equally as angry 569 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 2: as I was in the sense of how much innocence 570 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 2: that this person stole and that I just wasn't alone. 571 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 2: My cousin Henry told his kids, who are in their twenties, 572 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,759 Speaker 2: and before he could even say what family member did 573 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 2: something to him. His daughter asked if it was Uncle Taylor, 574 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,240 Speaker 2: because I apparently at a family event he had groped 575 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,240 Speaker 2: her and told her not to tell me a one 576 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 2: and so this clearly is in an instance where it 577 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,760 Speaker 2: was a one off with one kid or another kid, 578 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 2: there could be multiple victims out there. 579 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: Even though Taylor wasn't speaking to her mom, Henry took 580 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:41,879 Speaker 1: it upon himself to message her. 581 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 2: He Facebook messaged her probably a little over a year ago, saying, 582 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,720 Speaker 2: when we were living in the Midwest, it was happening 583 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 2: to me my uncle Taylor. I thought it stopped once 584 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:56,879 Speaker 2: we moved away and he wouldn't do it to any 585 00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 2: other kid. But Taylor Lynne is not lying, and I 586 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 2: know this goes beyond just us. Never read it, never 587 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 2: responded to him. So there's definitely been attempts, even after 588 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 2: that moment to try to snap her out of it, 589 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,840 Speaker 2: and nothing has worked, and I don't think anything will work. 590 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 1: Henry and Taylor took their information to authorities. 591 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 2: He contacted the state where he lives because the groping 592 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 2: of his daughter happened in that state, and unfortunately they 593 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 2: haven't really paid much attention. 594 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,840 Speaker 1: So at first, she was told the abuse she suffered 595 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 1: would be classified as second degree criminal sexual misconduct and 596 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 1: in her state there's a statute of limitations for that. 597 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:52,799 Speaker 2: And it's extremely frustrating, but I'm choosing to accept that. 598 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: Taylor and her cousin decided to do something together to 599 00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 1: symbolize what they went through. 600 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 2: I got Medusa tattoos recently, so Medusa. The lore is 601 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 2: she was seduced by Poseidon and raped by Poseidon in 602 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 2: Athena's temple, and Athena didn't believe her and chose to 603 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 2: make her a monster. And that definitely spoke to both 604 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 2: of us of just fear of not being believed and 605 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 2: where both in each other's corner, still being there for 606 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 2: each other when there are some dark days, or just 607 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 2: reassurance that it wasn't our fault. 608 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 1: Just recently, the district attorney has decided to re examine 609 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 1: the case. They are reclassifying her abuse as first degree 610 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: criminal's sexual misconduct and there are no statute of limitations. 611 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 1: Taylor and Henry hope they might see justice. In the meantime, 612 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,279 Speaker 1: She's focused on moving forward and raising her kids in 613 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 1: a safe, happy environment. 614 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 2: I have a career, then I chasing. I don't have time, 615 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:06,439 Speaker 2: nor like the desire at this moment to potentially chase 616 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 2: down a case that has anyone said that they don't 617 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 2: believe me when I know the truth. I also have 618 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 2: three beautiful voys that need all my attention, all of 619 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 2: my love. Right now. I have the best kids in 620 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 2: the world. They are fun, they're smart, they're goofy, and 621 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:27,719 Speaker 2: I know I'm their mom, so I have to say 622 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 2: all of those things. 623 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,279 Speaker 1: She's sad that her mom doesn't get to see her 624 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:34,200 Speaker 1: boys grow up. 625 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,959 Speaker 2: I feel sorry for her in the sense that she's 626 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 2: never going to know them and know how amazing they are. 627 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 2: Last week, I got a message from my oldest son's teacher. 628 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,960 Speaker 2: He's in first grade. It was interesting fact day and 629 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,719 Speaker 2: my son all he knows about my parents is that 630 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 2: they are I just say, you know, they're not very 631 00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 2: good people, and so that's why they're not in our lives. 632 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:04,399 Speaker 2: And I haven't elaborated. And my oldest son told his 633 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 2: entire class that my parents are bank robbers and they 634 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 2: stole money from a bank and that's why he doesn't 635 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,719 Speaker 2: know them. So I think it's kind of hilarious. The 636 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 2: little kids' minds just are so imaginative, so one day 637 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,840 Speaker 2: I'll be able to tell them the real reason, but 638 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:24,879 Speaker 2: for now, they just know that the people who are 639 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,400 Speaker 2: in their lives are people who generally love them and 640 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,799 Speaker 2: will protect them. And I refuse to have it any 641 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 2: other way. 642 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,360 Speaker 1: Throughout this whole experience, She's had the support of her husband. 643 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,400 Speaker 2: I know I have such a great life partner. He 644 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,560 Speaker 2: stood by me this entire time, and his family has 645 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 2: stood by me the entire time, and that just has 646 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 2: meant the whole world to me. And he's such a 647 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 2: good dad. He is so fully involved, and we are 648 00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,839 Speaker 2: building this little family from scratch and starting this new 649 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 2: life I see. 650 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,759 Speaker 1: We end every weekly episode with the same question, why 651 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 1: do you want to share your story? 652 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,359 Speaker 2: The first reason is I think this is a part 653 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:16,320 Speaker 2: of my healing journey first and foremost, and provide myself 654 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:21,879 Speaker 2: some additional closure. A second reason is when I found 655 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,279 Speaker 2: out that my cousin Henry had this had happened to him, 656 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:28,080 Speaker 2: there was this sense of I'm not alone, and if 657 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 2: I can give someone else this sense of them not 658 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 2: feeling alone, then I want to be able to do that, 659 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,760 Speaker 2: and that's why I'd chosen to say something. 660 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:43,960 Speaker 1: On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly. 661 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,000 Speaker 3: So we sat down and he was like, he doesn't 662 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:49,920 Speaker 3: believe in NBA, so he's not going to ask for 663 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 3: one of them. And I was just like, what the 664 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,960 Speaker 3: hell is going on here? Like what is happening? And 665 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:00,319 Speaker 3: it was like, Oh, do you know what? I think? 666 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 3: I need to tell you a little bit about my 667 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:11,960 Speaker 3: family history. 668 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,960 Speaker 1: Before we end the episode. I have some exciting news Betrayal. 669 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,879 Speaker 1: We'll be doing our first ever live show as part 670 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,720 Speaker 1: of the Virgin Voyage's True Crime Cruise. We'll be answering 671 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 1: listener questions and discussing them live on stage with Stacey 672 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 1: and Tyler from Betrayal season three, as well as Caroline 673 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,919 Speaker 1: from season four. So if you have a question for us, 674 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,400 Speaker 1: please email us at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com with 675 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,920 Speaker 1: the subject line listener question and if you want to 676 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,800 Speaker 1: join us on the Caribbean cruise, there are still spots 677 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:47,359 Speaker 1: available search Virgin Voyages dot com slash true crime. If 678 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,319 Speaker 1: you would like to reach out to the Betrayal team 679 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,160 Speaker 1: or want to tell us your Betrayal story, email us 680 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:56,839 Speaker 1: at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal Pod at 681 00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:01,160 Speaker 1: gmail dot com, or follow us on Instagram at Betrayal pod. 682 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,879 Speaker 1: You can also connect with me on Instagram at It's 683 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:09,319 Speaker 1: Andrea Gunning. To access our newsletter, view additional content, and 684 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,960 Speaker 1: connect with the Betrayal community, join our substack at Betrayal 685 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:17,040 Speaker 1: dot substack dot com. We're grateful for your support. One 686 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,359 Speaker 1: way to show support is by subscribing to our show 687 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,120 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts and don't forget to rate and review 688 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 1: Betrayal five star reviews go a long way. A big 689 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:29,000 Speaker 1: thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a 690 00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:32,120 Speaker 1: production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group 691 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 1: and partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced 692 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,480 Speaker 1: by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced by 693 00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:44,000 Speaker 1: Me Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Monique Leboard, also 694 00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:49,400 Speaker 1: produced by Ben Fetterman. Associate producers are Caitlin Golden, Olivia Hewitt, 695 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:54,400 Speaker 1: and Kristin Melcurie. Casting support from Curry Richmond. Our iHeart 696 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:58,440 Speaker 1: team is Ali Perry and Jessica Krincheck. Audio editing and 697 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:02,800 Speaker 1: mixing by Matt Delvecchio. Additional audio editing by Tanner Robbins. 698 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:08,239 Speaker 1: Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Baines Music Library provided by 699 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:12,319 Speaker 1: mybe Music. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the 700 00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:19,280 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.