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Speaker 1: Hi everybody, and welcome to Katie's Crib. In this episode,

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Speaker 1: we are talking about babies and sleep, sleep training, scheduling

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Speaker 1: on demand. We are going to investigate this big and

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Speaker 1: for a lot of people, a very controversial subject. We

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Speaker 1: have here a friend of mine by the name of

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Speaker 1: Susie Menke's and she works with a company that she

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Speaker 1: started called Healthy Little Sleepers here in Los Angeles. She's

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Speaker 1: the founder and she's going to talk to us about

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Speaker 1: sleep training. Hi. Susie, Hi, I'm so happy to have

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Speaker 1: you here. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. Um.

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Speaker 1: I never heard about sleep training. I never knew what

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Speaker 1: it was, and then I had a baby, and then

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Speaker 1: it was all of a sudden, all everybody was talking about.

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Speaker 1: Can you walk us through the very simple question of

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Speaker 1: what is sleep training? What is sleep training? Such a

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Speaker 1: good question because oftentimes people don't know about it until

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Speaker 1: you actually have a baby. And there's this thing leap training.

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Speaker 1: You have to train your baby to sleep. Um, So

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Speaker 1: it's basically just making changes in your baby's sleep habits

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Speaker 1: so that they can learn to sell soup. So a

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Speaker 1: lot of times we come home from the hospital they're newborn,

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Speaker 1: we're there for them we're doing it for them. But

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Speaker 1: at some point, and it's typically around four months of age,

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Speaker 1: is when there's circadian rhythms start coming into play. What's that? Basically,

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Speaker 1: they're what is the word circadian rhythms start, you're smart

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Speaker 1: circadian rhythms? Okay, they're sleep rhythms, um. And it's set

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Speaker 1: by the rising and setting of the sun, and so

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Speaker 1: that's where you get kind of those sleep schedules that

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Speaker 1: people talk about, that nine and one nap and things

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Speaker 1: like that, um. But really what happens is that four

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Speaker 1: months of ages, they've become already accustomed to some associations

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Speaker 1: to sleep. So whether you're nursing them to sleep, whether

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Speaker 1: you're rocking them to sleep, dark room, dark room, there's

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Speaker 1: all of it. So there's associations of all involved with

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Speaker 1: sleeping that they may need to unlearn and learn to

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Speaker 1: sell soothe, and so that's where we come in and

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Speaker 1: try to do sleep learning for them and by self soothing.

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Speaker 1: To clarify that, you mean, like the baby, he or

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Speaker 1: she has her own tools to put her or himself

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Speaker 1: to sleep. Right. So sleep is a science, right, So

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Speaker 1: it's a balancing of hormones. Melatonin is a sleep hormone

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Speaker 1: that we produce um, and we don't really start producing

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Speaker 1: it until we're three or four months of age. So

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Speaker 1: that's where you get that day night confusion. Before that,

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Speaker 1: they're up during. Yeah, it's in case you didn't know

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Speaker 1: where you're freaking out. Babies come out and they lived

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Speaker 1: in a dark place for ten months and then all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden we're telling them like, oh the sun's down,

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Speaker 1: the sun's up, but they have no idea, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of babies, even when I first come out, which

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Speaker 1: I didn't know until I was going through myself, it's reversed,

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Speaker 1: so they could be up for some reason. Wow, they

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Speaker 1: are napping the hell out of this day. But at

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Speaker 1: nighttime it's like the most energy you've ever seen. And

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Speaker 1: it's because you're saying until month three or four, they

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Speaker 1: don't know. They don't go by the sun yet, they

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Speaker 1: don't go by those rhythms. Yet, they don't produce melatonin.

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Speaker 1: The one thing that we do is produce melatonin, and

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Speaker 1: so melatonin in our breast milk is actually highest in

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Speaker 1: the evenings. So if you are nursing, you have that

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Speaker 1: benefit to give them nighttime bread smelt. I am rather

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Speaker 1: than night mind blown right now again? Oh God, I

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Speaker 1: love Katie's grib selfishly because I get lessons like in

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Speaker 1: motherhood on the regular, which is so great. Um wow, Okay,

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Speaker 1: why do you think sleeve training is such a controversial

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Speaker 1: and heated topic amongst parents. It is. It's often misguided

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Speaker 1: sometimes by um, like a fear tactic don't let your

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Speaker 1: baby cry um. And there is that kind of almost

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Speaker 1: like breastfeeding. There's that controversy to breastfeed or not to

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Speaker 1: breast fresh and stigers attached judgment like this makes me aod. Now,

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Speaker 1: this makes you a bad mom. Sure, if you're gonna

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Speaker 1: let your baby cry, you're harming your baby. Right. There's

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Speaker 1: a level of stress that's involved in learning a new tactic.

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Speaker 1: But the American Academy of Pediatrics is something that we

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Speaker 1: follow as sleep consultants, and they actually put a framework

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Speaker 1: together of stress that's really a good guideline to think

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Speaker 1: about stress and what you are doing or not doing

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Speaker 1: for your baby. Right. So, there's a positive stress response,

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Speaker 1: which is a typical frustration, struggling, starting daycare, all those

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Speaker 1: are typical stress responses. There's a tolerable stress response, which

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Speaker 1: is more of something that's not every day, maybe a divorce,

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Speaker 1: a death in the family, and then there's toxic stress

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Speaker 1: response where um, you don't have a loving caregifter, there's abuse,

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Speaker 1: there's neglecting fault, right, So those are the leve That

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Speaker 1: toxic level is what we're talking about, being harmful and

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Speaker 1: damaging to the brain. That's not what sleep training is about, right, Um.

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Speaker 1: And you're not equating sleep training with abuse, right right.

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Speaker 1: So that's where this kind of misguided information comes from.

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Speaker 1: Of sleep training is involved with levels of stress. Yes,

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Speaker 1: they're learning a new habit and it's hard for any

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Speaker 1: of us to change something, so it's kind of dealing

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Speaker 1: with that. You have a stable environment, you have a

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Speaker 1: loving caregiver to help you cope through that stress. Right.

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Speaker 1: We don't say here, go go learn how to sleep

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Speaker 1: and walk away right one. We do it for them first,

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Speaker 1: we do it with them, we watch them do it,

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Speaker 1: and then they do it on their own. Whoa, guys,

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Speaker 1: that was just like a real SmackDown. Yeah. I definitely

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Speaker 1: personally had You know, I went back to work when

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Speaker 1: Albi was seven weeks old, and for me, sleep was

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Speaker 1: literally like a number one priority list because I couldn't

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Speaker 1: memorize my lines, show up at work, look remotely like

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Speaker 1: I was a sane person and not like a garbage

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Speaker 1: bag and not get my sleep. And so I remember

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Speaker 1: the first times I, you know, was told it's okay

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Speaker 1: to let him make annoy kind of cry as sounds

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Speaker 1: for two or three minutes. Wait a minute, let's see

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Speaker 1: what he does. And he's going to start to teach himself,

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Speaker 1: find his thumb or if you're a pacifier person or

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Speaker 1: whatever it is, find tools with which to put himself

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Speaker 1: to sleep. And I did have those thoughts termittive of like,

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Speaker 1: am I subconsciously damaging my baby that he's going to

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Speaker 1: be in therapy for a million years because of me?

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Speaker 1: Because I let him cry for three minutes And you're

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Speaker 1: saying that is a stress that is not damaging. No. Plus,

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Speaker 1: he's in the stable environment. I was watching that monitor

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Speaker 1: hawk and counting down the second. And you're there when

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Speaker 1: he wakes up, or you're there to feed him, to

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Speaker 1: love him, to play with him. You know, he's in

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Speaker 1: that environment. He is. You're building that secure attachment in

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Speaker 1: those first four four to six months. So that's what

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Speaker 1: you're doing. It's good to hear that I have. And

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Speaker 1: there's also atroversy. And I think there's also controversy and

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Speaker 1: that if you do sleep train around four between four

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Speaker 1: and six months, that there is that stigma of um

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Speaker 1: that you'r harm and your baby it's too soon, is

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Speaker 1: not enough weight? What do you say about those sort

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Speaker 1: of situations? Is there a set rule of when, how

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Speaker 1: how much weight? All these things? And again I don't

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Speaker 1: really know what I'm talking about. These are like literally

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Speaker 1: rumors that have flown into my head. Typically, PD I

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Speaker 1: always say, go by your pediatrician. Where are they on

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Speaker 1: the spectrum in terms of weight wise, and or are

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Speaker 1: they gaining weight? Um? You know, if they're born early,

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Speaker 1: sometimes you have to wait a bit longer because you

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Speaker 1: really want to go by their developmental age, which is

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Speaker 1: based on their do date, not when they're born. Um,

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Speaker 1: So if they're early, you might have to wait another

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Speaker 1: two weeks or three sure. Um. Pediatricians often have kind

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Speaker 1: of a fourteen pound rule. Um. If I get a

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Speaker 1: client with a twelve thirteen pound baby, but they're feeding well,

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Speaker 1: they're gaining weight, I'm not gonna turn them away. Um,

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Speaker 1: because they are developmentally ready, they are producing melatonin, they

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Speaker 1: are their circadian rhythms are in place. They do have

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Speaker 1: social smiles UM, which develop around six to eight weeks

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Speaker 1: of age, which is a prime example of when to

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Speaker 1: set routines in place. Because social smiles is a connection.

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Speaker 1: They are making connections and associations interesting. Can you UM

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Speaker 1: talk to us about some of the different methods of

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Speaker 1: sleep training that parents use. Is there a particular one

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Speaker 1: that you recommend as it depend on the baby and

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Speaker 1: the issue at hand, UM, So there's no one particular

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Speaker 1: method that I use. I often take a look at

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Speaker 1: the baby, and you know, the parent is the expert

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Speaker 1: on their baby, so I get a lot of information

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Speaker 1: from the parents, UM, their age, what's been going on before,

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Speaker 1: anything has been tried before, how long have they tried it.

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Speaker 1: I've been trained by the Family Sleep Institute, which doesn't

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Speaker 1: have one particular method that they were trained in all

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Speaker 1: of them UM, and it's sometimes a combination of them.

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Speaker 1: There's a Ferbor method which is like a check and console.

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Speaker 1: There is the sleep wave by Kim West. I believe

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Speaker 1: there is cried out, which is extinction. Where is the

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Speaker 1: true cried out? You put your baby in your bed,

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Speaker 1: in their crib, you leave the room, You come back

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Speaker 1: the next morning, assuming there's no night feeds, assuming and

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Speaker 1: you still can do sleep training with a night feed

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Speaker 1: And that's the one that moms say, like they did

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Speaker 1: that for two or three nights and then they never

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Speaker 1: did it again. Like is that true? I didn't have

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Speaker 1: to do that, So I don't know if I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: even be built of the stuff that could do it.

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Speaker 1: It's not for the faint of heart. I did it

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Speaker 1: with my first Um, how many nights did it take?

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Speaker 1: And how long was the crying? Do you know? Minutes? No?

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Speaker 1: I opened a bottle of wine and I cried and

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Speaker 1: watched the monitor and thirty minutes he was asleep. Wow.

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Speaker 1: The next night it was like maybe ten minutes. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So that's the cryed out method. What's the verber Berberber method?

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Speaker 1: What is that? So that is a check and console.

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Speaker 1: So you put your baby down to sleep, he starts crying.

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Speaker 1: Five minutes, you go and check on him. You don't

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Speaker 1: pick him up, her up. Um, you say a little,

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Speaker 1: it's okay, we're here, it's time to sleep, and you

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Speaker 1: leave the room and then you can wait ten minutes

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Speaker 1: and then you go in after tens I mean it

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Speaker 1: can be another five. You can do lights of like

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Speaker 1: going in every five minutes and just using your voice

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Speaker 1: and your presence to console them, but you don't touch them.

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Speaker 1: And then the next two nights or whatever it is

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Speaker 1: that's comfortable for you, then you might extend to you

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Speaker 1: wait ten minutes before you go in the room. I

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Speaker 1: have a friend that did that exactly. And then what's

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Speaker 1: the other method that you say. There's a chair method,

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Speaker 1: which is a little bit more gentle approach. So you're

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Speaker 1: in the room with them. Um. It takes a little

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Speaker 1: bit longer in terms of, you know, getting out of

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Speaker 1: the room and being able. So you start next to

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Speaker 1: the crib in a chair or on the floor. It's

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Speaker 1: like the chairman um, and you're there. You can first

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Speaker 1: couple of days, you can use your hands on them,

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Speaker 1: but you don't want any like any other rhythm involved

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Speaker 1: because you don't want to start another association for them

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Speaker 1: to get attached to. So you keep it minimal interaction.

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Speaker 1: But you're there for them, and when they fall asleep,

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Speaker 1: you leave the room. When they cry again, you come

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Speaker 1: back into that position and you do the same thing

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Speaker 1: without picking your baby up. Wow. And and then you

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Speaker 1: slowly move the next two days or maybe in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the room. Then you're not doing touching, it's

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Speaker 1: just your voice. The next two days you move again

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Speaker 1: and maybe your three quarters the way of the room.

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Speaker 1: Then you're at the door. Then you're outside the door,

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Speaker 1: and then and then kind of like slowly slowly introducing

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Speaker 1: that they are safe in this space, that you are

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Speaker 1: here until I'm not here physically, but I am here

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Speaker 1: to hear me, but I am here. WHOA, that's this

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Speaker 1: is all god motherhood. You've got to be a beast

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Speaker 1: like this is so so fascinating. Um, do you have

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Speaker 1: any advice for what parents can say when I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I do feel like this is like breastfeeding, like you

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Speaker 1: brought it up already. It's just a very judgy topic. Um.

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Speaker 1: I can remember very early on, like my baby was

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Speaker 1: sleeping to the night at eight weeks, or like the

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Speaker 1: other version, which is like, oh my gosh, I I

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Speaker 1: honestly do not believe in sleep train until they are

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Speaker 1: six months of age and fifteen pounds and that is

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Speaker 1: cruel to be doing. I've heard all sides of the spectrum,

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Speaker 1: and people are not afraid to give their opinion and

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Speaker 1: their advice. So what would you suggest for parents that

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Speaker 1: are I don't know. I might have that are picking

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Speaker 1: whatever it is they're picking and how to stick with it,

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Speaker 1: or I think finding the support, um, whether it's their husband,

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Speaker 1: their friend, their family. Sometimes family has different opinions though. Um.

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Speaker 1: I've had clients who was like, I didn't tell my

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Speaker 1: mom I was doing this or my dad I was

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Speaker 1: doing this, And there's the mom and dad calling and

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Speaker 1: I'm at their house and they're not picking up. And

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Speaker 1: then she's saying, oh, shoot, my sister probably told them,

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Speaker 1: and that's why they're calling. You know, they know you're here. Um,

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Speaker 1: So they got to find where they can find that support.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes that's me, right. Um. I work with families

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Speaker 1: on a two week period when they hired me, so

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Speaker 1: I'm there for them for two So that how it

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Speaker 1: works with a sleep consultant. You get hired for a

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Speaker 1: two week period and you work with that family closely

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Speaker 1: and hopefully in that two weeks you see a bunch

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Speaker 1: of improvement as far as sleep is concerned. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: have to say sleeping, even to this day is probably

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Speaker 1: the only really touchy subject where Adam and I, my

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Speaker 1: husband and I, we really sometimes butt heads, which is

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Speaker 1: when we put the baby down and he's making fussy sounds.

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Speaker 1: Um it's like someone screaming in my head, Like it's

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Speaker 1: so loud to me that I'm not going in there.

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Speaker 1: And the seconds go by like years, and my husband

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Speaker 1: just has a way higher threshold for like it's only

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Speaker 1: in fifteen minutes. He's going to put himself down. He

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Speaker 1: always does. He does it every night. He's gonna put

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Speaker 1: himself down. And I'm like, no, no no, no, no, no, no

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Speaker 1: no no no. Tonight is different, it sounds different. It

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Speaker 1: is just it's just taking forever. And and to be clear,

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Speaker 1: he's going he's not screaming crying at all. He's either

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Speaker 1: has gas or he's like getting tired and expressing himself.

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Speaker 1: But I have to say even to this day that

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Speaker 1: that is a husband wife dilemma for me, for our family, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And I work with family couples that way because there

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Speaker 1: are differing opinions about what to do and kind of

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Speaker 1: coming to an agreement in the middleground and having that

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Speaker 1: plan and being able to have that plan for both

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Speaker 1: of them to work off of and the caregivers too.

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Speaker 1: So you're like a therapist to the middle woman. Um, So,

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Speaker 1: at what age would you say a sleep routine is established. Um,

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Speaker 1: so I touched on this early around six to eight weeks. Um.

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Speaker 1: Just a routine, right, not sleep training. Right. We're not

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Speaker 1: trying to get them to sleep on their own, um,

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Speaker 1: but they are. When you see social smiles, they are

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Speaker 1: making connections. So when you put those pre bedtime routines

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Speaker 1: in place, it's their sense of routine and structure that

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Speaker 1: sleep is around the corner. Right. And that's when I

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Speaker 1: was told like this is when you might introduce a

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Speaker 1: bath routine and then like a song or a book,

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Speaker 1: or the lights change or the white noise sound comes up.

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Speaker 1: But you get into this like sort of ritual routine

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Speaker 1: that they can associate with. Now, I'm going to sleep

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Speaker 1: for the night, right, and and and naps too. You

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Speaker 1: can do a shortened version for now do and it

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Speaker 1: helps so helps increase that melatonin levels because their bodies

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Speaker 1: and their mind are already getting ready for sleep because

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Speaker 1: those routines are starting, and so that melatonin is starting

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Speaker 1: to get produced. Great. Um, is it ever too late

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Speaker 1: to start? Like do you ever get phone calls from

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Speaker 1: babies that are are not sleeping through the night at

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Speaker 1: one and a half too? It's never too late. It's

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Speaker 1: it's a lot easier when you start early because you

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Speaker 1: just have certain pattern patterns and rhythms um that are

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Speaker 1: in place. Um. So when you start sleep training a

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Speaker 1: little bit later, um, there's just a little bit bigger

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Speaker 1: of an adjustment. UM. Maybe a little bit more protest

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Speaker 1: because they're verbal. Um. So you put, so, what are

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Speaker 1: the benefits of sleep training? And you know, if I

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Speaker 1: was playing Devil's Advocate, here are there benefits to just

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Speaker 1: reading the baby's cues and just letting the baby sleep

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Speaker 1: when they're ready. That's probably like nails on a chalkboard too,

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Speaker 1: But no, I mean for our listeners and viewers who

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Speaker 1: are like truly, because there are so many stigmas attached.

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Speaker 1: So sleep training is important both for the parents and

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Speaker 1: for the child because sleep deprivation is hard on us.

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Speaker 1: We can't function as well. We're going to fight more

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Speaker 1: with our partner, We're going to be testy during the day,

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Speaker 1: we won't remember things as well. We don't have pregnancy brain.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be like mom right not yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the same thing, um yeah, continuous um. So, and what

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Speaker 1: happens in sleep, especially in the first four to five

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Speaker 1: hours of sleep um is non ari em sleep. It's

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Speaker 1: the most important sleep we get. It's when our brain

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Speaker 1: shrinks and our toxins are flushed out, so that sleep

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Speaker 1: is most important to get consolidated, which is get them

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Speaker 1: to sleep from like seven to twelve. And then that's

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Speaker 1: when we say, if you're still having a feeding at night,

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Speaker 1: have it after midnight. WHOA, Okay, I was doing that

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Speaker 1: in the early days. Okay, okay, okay. So sleep training,

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Speaker 1: you would say, is so beneficial because it's important to

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Speaker 1: get them to have quality, uninterrupted sleep that's where their

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Speaker 1: brain develops. And also so that we don't just jump

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Speaker 1: off a crazy drain of insanity because it's just so

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Speaker 1: hard to be I mean, I've never been so sleep

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Speaker 1: deprived in my whole life. I thought I was gonna

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Speaker 1: lose my mind. Um. And on the flip side, right,

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Speaker 1: just following your baby's cute, right, Yes, So that works

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Speaker 1: great if you have a flexible sleeper, and sometimes you

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Speaker 1: just fall naturally into that pattern and that's when you

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Speaker 1: get like, oh yeah, my baby sleep and at eight

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Speaker 1: weeks you're like, right, you have a uniform baby. Thanks

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Speaker 1: a lot, you know, right, Um, But it goes hand

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Speaker 1: in hand, right, So the parenting style and the baby's

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Speaker 1: flexibility just matched up and they got into a good

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Speaker 1: rhythm um and it just it happens naturally, and so

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Speaker 1: they're able to follow those babies cubes. Sometimes babies have colic,

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Speaker 1: sometimes they have reflux. Sometimes the parents are working, so

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of other things juggling and to follow

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Speaker 1: your baby's cues um necessarily doesn't always work. And that was, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was my case. Like I remember going back at

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Speaker 1: seven weeks to work and emailing my nursing schedule to

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Speaker 1: carry Washington work because she was the director of the episode,

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Speaker 1: and I had to feed albeit six nine twelve three six,

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Speaker 1: and I had to know that he was going to

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Speaker 1: be waking up from his nap at that time, that

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Speaker 1: I was going to be allowed to go back to

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Speaker 1: my trailer at that time to feed my kids. So

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Speaker 1: for me, it really helped knowing that he naps from

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Speaker 1: a thirty to ten in the morning. At ten, I

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Speaker 1: feed him, then he naps again from eleven thirty to one.

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Speaker 1: At one, I feed him, and then he napped again

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Speaker 1: so in the morning, you know, so the early stages,

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Speaker 1: it was very helpful. Now it's funny that I find

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Speaker 1: that I'm off and he's in a routine already. His

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Speaker 1: naps are sort of changing, and I've become far more

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Speaker 1: flexible in sort of experimenting, like not waking him up

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Speaker 1: from a nap and seeing how long he goes because

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Speaker 1: I think he's trying to tell me something that his

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Speaker 1: naps are. Maybe we're going to drop a nap, Maybee.

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Speaker 1: You know, we're going to go from four naps to

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Speaker 1: three naps to two naps, you know so. But I'm

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Speaker 1: also off, so I have some of the you know it, really,

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Speaker 1: you're right. It depends on the schedule and what your

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Speaker 1: baby thrives on. And he's already in a great routine totally,

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Speaker 1: so you have that kind of Okay, Well, he knows

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Speaker 1: when he needs time to go to he knows. I

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Speaker 1: have a whole setup, the whole aura vibe of his

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Speaker 1: room is totally set and shades. She's got a mark

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Speaker 1: pac don't. Oh yeah, guys, we're in Albie's crib right now, micrib,

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Speaker 1: Albie's nursery. But yes, and I do carry those things

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Speaker 1: around with me. Now. I've gotten so confident that we've

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Speaker 1: um that he's a good sleeper right now that we

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Speaker 1: are able to we black out his stroller and we

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Speaker 1: haven't traveling sound machine. And so if I am on

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Speaker 1: the go and can't move my schedule things around, he

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Speaker 1: will take his nap. It's on is good and I

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Speaker 1: don't want to do it all the time, but when

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Speaker 1: I do, it's he knows. It's like he knows as

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Speaker 1: it's time exactly. Um. Can co sleeping be a part

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Speaker 1: of sleep training? Are the mutually exclusive? Um? Close sleeping

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Speaker 1: is another controversial topic. UM. There co sleeping so you

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Speaker 1: guys know means sleeping the same bed as your parents.

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Speaker 1: Is the mom or dad, correct or or and the

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Speaker 1: baby you get me? So again, we go by what

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Speaker 1: the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends, and part of their

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Speaker 1: role of having the baby in your room till one

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Speaker 1: year of age, UM was to encourage you know, the

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Speaker 1: ease of breastfeeding and taking care of your baby and

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Speaker 1: reducing the risk of sids. CO sleeping with a newborn

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Speaker 1: and a baby under a year of age is not safe. Um,

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Speaker 1: So instead of co sleeping, we want to think of

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Speaker 1: it as room sharing. Right, you can have a co

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Speaker 1: sleeper that's attached to the bed, but you're not going

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Speaker 1: to roll over onto the baby. Right. Um, so it's

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Speaker 1: really about reducing the risk of SIDS, and that's something

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Speaker 1: can control because there's other things that we can't control,

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Speaker 1: like developmental periods. And maybe something they're thinking about about

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Speaker 1: SIDS is that it is biological, so we can't control that,

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Speaker 1: but we can control all these external factors. So if

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Speaker 1: I have a co sleeping parents, if they're over one

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Speaker 1: year of age and the baby and you know there

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Speaker 1: that's the setup they want to do. I can work

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Speaker 1: with them, but I really try and encourage room sharing.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes room sharing is a necessity because of another baby,

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Speaker 1: or they live in New York's Yeah, yeah, of course,

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Speaker 1: so kind of working around maybe they're in a studio apartment.

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Speaker 1: I've done that too. I just took my first trip

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Speaker 1: where Albie hasn't slept in my room in a long time.

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Speaker 1: He's seven months old, and he was in my room

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Speaker 1: and every two minutes I heard a sound and I

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Speaker 1: thought something was happening. It was insane. Um, you say

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Speaker 1: you do a two week period with the family. Is

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Speaker 1: that how long sleep training typically takes? Again depends on

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Speaker 1: the method, right, So the chair method will take up

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Speaker 1: to ten to fourteen days. Just in terms of your

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Speaker 1: process of removing the room. Right. Um, but that's not

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Speaker 1: to say your baby might be sleeping way before that.

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Speaker 1: You might sit there for five minutes and then leave

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Speaker 1: by the all right, it could be all done in

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Speaker 1: two days, three days, five days. It's wow. It's a

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Speaker 1: case by case basis and how long it typically takes.

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Speaker 1: And it also depends on how consistent the parents are.

425
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 1: So consistency is a real, real big component. Because maybe

426
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 1: there are a visitor comes and I always say no visitors,

427
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,720
Speaker 1: no traveling, no this, but things life happens, right, I

428
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 1: always get called like, oh no, I messed up. Well

429
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 1: that's okay, let's reset. Right, it just might take a

430
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 1: little bit longer. Right, How do you wean a baby

431
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,959
Speaker 1: off of nighttime feedings in order to get a longer

432
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 1: chunk stretch of sleep? So again, so the first feeding

433
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,200
Speaker 1: we want, we want it after midnight because their brains

434
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 1: is going to develop. If they go down at seven

435
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 1: pm and they sleep till midnight, that's a great five

436
00:22:55,040 --> 00:23:00,919
Speaker 1: hour developmental chunk. Okay um, And then you can do

437
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,200
Speaker 1: it a couple of ways. You can push the time out.

438
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 1: So let's say two nights in a row they made

439
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 1: it to twelve thirty, okay, tomorrow night, let's try and

440
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 1: make it twelve or one o'clock. So you can push

441
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 1: it out that way. You can also reduce how much

442
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 1: how much time wise or that's what I did, um,

443
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 1: and kind of push it out that way, so they

444
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 1: getting their stomach is less full, right, so they're not

445
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 1: used to sleeping on a full stuff. That's what I did.

446
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,439
Speaker 1: It took forever, but it was like what worked for me,

447
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:30,360
Speaker 1: which was I would pump and then that bottle that

448
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,439
Speaker 1: would happen at one o'clock in the morning. It was

449
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 1: five ounces, then four and a half for three nights,

450
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 1: then four for three nights, and three and a half

451
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,199
Speaker 1: for three nights, and three for three nights, then two

452
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 1: and a half then two then gone exactly, Um, okay, great,

453
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 1: thank you I have I'm not like a freak about sleeping,

454
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 1: but I'm always like, he's not eating enough, Like there's

455
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 1: this weird you'll see like as Mom's just every single

456
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:58,880
Speaker 1: thing is like anxiety. It's like it's like he's not working,

457
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 1: he's not eating. It's like he's not eating at one am.

458
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 1: And I had to do that. First, I dropped the

459
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,439
Speaker 1: four am feed. Then I dropped the one am feed

460
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 1: and then magically it happened. Um, and then I felt

461
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 1: like a human being. Is nap training and sleep training

462
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 1: same different? Do do the same thing at the same time?

463
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 1: It tell me I typically like doing them both at

464
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 1: the same time because sleep comes together much quicker that way. Um,

465
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 1: because when you don't get good naps, you don't get

466
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 1: a good nighttime sleep. Are they directly related? They can't.

467
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 1: They can lead to nighttime wakings. No, thank you. I

468
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,880
Speaker 1: do like working on them together. That doesn't mean they

469
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: can be. They also can be separated, so you can

470
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 1: work on nine. If you're going to do one first,

471
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: you work on nighttime first, because it's the easier of

472
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: the two, because naps are harder to come together because

473
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: they're a lighter stage of sleep. Got it. So even

474
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: when you're working on them together at the same time,

475
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: naps still might be wonky a little bit. Um. But

476
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 1: then as the more practice you give your baby for

477
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 1: now being, the more it will come together. What are

478
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 1: the early I don't know mistakes that parents make with

479
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 1: sleep training stopping too fast, saying it does it's not

480
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,919
Speaker 1: working one day two, Oh gosh, I'm so bad. That

481
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 1: is me I mean, I end up working out there.

482
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 1: But good thing, Adam. You know, I always feel like

483
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 1: it takes a partner to be kind of stronger than

484
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: the other too, stick with it, not given too soon,

485
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 1: not just quit too early. So it's really perseverance and

486
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 1: stamina and having a plan. Write it down, even if

487
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 1: you're not working with someone, put a plan down on paper.

488
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 1: This is what I'm going to do on night one.

489
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 1: This is what I'm going to do on night too.

490
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 1: That's really your resolution, keeping yourself accountable. Tell somebody about it,

491
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: right takes a village guys. Um, so you had already

492
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 1: mentioned this and this is big on me. But what

493
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 1: happens when you might have gotten a lot of these

494
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: routines into place, and then all of a sudden something

495
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 1: does come up travel illness, somebody's come to visit it,

496
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,400
Speaker 1: just throw off everything and you kind of get through

497
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 1: it and then you come back when you come back

498
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 1: to it. Is that kind of the deal, Yep, You

499
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 1: come back when you get at home, you pick things

500
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: right back up where you left off. Um, waking them

501
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 1: up in the morning to reset their circadian rhythms. If

502
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 1: you've been traveling, guys, I'm going on a trip, and

503
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,479
Speaker 1: I am fully f freaking out about the time difference

504
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: because I have a great schedule going on and a

505
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: great sleeping baby, and I'm like, what am I doing?

506
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: But see, I am of this person of like I'm

507
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 1: two ways, like I'm I'm I'm sort of a hippie

508
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: and down for like whatever, and it's my life and

509
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 1: I want to live it and I want to grab

510
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: it by the khons. But I also am like, but

511
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 1: he we're on a schedule and he sleeps through the night,

512
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 1: and like, what am I doing? He'll get back, it's

513
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: a muscle, he knows it. He'll come back to it.

514
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 1: And it's a personal choice. Like you know, um, you

515
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: basically just go back to whatever training method you had

516
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,120
Speaker 1: going great for you from before. What do you suggest

517
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: for people who like you, say, A, the partners involved,

518
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: nanny's are involved, grandparents are involved, you know, any sort

519
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 1: of other help. I'm sure it's so important to get

520
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: everybody on the same freaking page of your schedule. Later,

521
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 1: if you're a scheduled person, have your schedule laid out.

522
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: I had printed all over my trailer because I had

523
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: a lot of different I it took me a while

524
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 1: to find nanny I very much trusted, and so at

525
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 1: the beginning, it was my husband, and it was friends

526
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 1: who were also nanny's when I was a nannie, and

527
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: people I really trusted because I was having a hard

528
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 1: time leaving the baby alone and I had to write

529
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: everything down, and I really hope that everyone's stuck to it.

530
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 1: What are the common myths, stigmas, all this stuff about

531
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 1: sleep training that you want to dispel, Susie, right here,

532
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 1: right now. Um, we talked about when already that your

533
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 1: harm and your baby if you let them cry. Thank

534
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 1: you for telling me, because I even still worry. Oh yeah,

535
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,439
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm like, I think about those early days

536
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 1: of like letting him cry for three minutes and just

537
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 1: being like, because you know what, I just went away

538
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,120
Speaker 1: with my mother, God bless her. I love her so much.

539
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 1: But I put the baby down and he was whining

540
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: and complaining for a couple of minutes. Um. And my

541
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: mom was horrified, like horrified that I let him do that. Um.

542
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: And she'll be the first to admit, Oh, Katie, I

543
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: let you sleep in the bed for whatever. I never

544
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: let you cry a day in your life, you know.

545
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: And and so we have differing opinions there um, but

546
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: I have to admit I totally caved and went in

547
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: and got him and rocked him, and I like, never

548
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: rock him to sleep, but like my mom, and I

549
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: felt the judgment of it, and I was like, oh

550
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 1: my god, you're You're totally right. We're on a family vacation.

551
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: He's upset. He should never be upset. I'm a horrible mom.

552
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: I'm hurting him. I went up and I rocked the

553
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: baby and he wanted to sleep in my arms, and like,

554
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: I don't ever do that. So the smallest comment will

555
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: make you do the stranger for a stranger. I remember

556
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 1: being in baby Gap and my little girl was taking

557
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: a nap and I was like, all right, here it

558
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: comes he forty five minutes sleep cycle. She starts crying.

559
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: Grandma in front of me, turns around says, I think

560
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: she needs to burp. Oh, you're like, and I'm like,

561
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: how do you know? And I'm like okay, I'm like

562
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: ever reason, I'm like, my god, damn it, I gotta

563
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: buckle her now and like pick her up. And I did,

564
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 1: and you did? I did. Oh my god, we don't

565
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: even know this person, you guys. Being a mom is

566
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: so weird and hard and a study in being strong

567
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: on your own and sticking to your convictions and oh

568
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: my gosh, it's so insane. Um So another one, Yes,

569
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: what else is your only option is cry it out?

570
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: That it's involved in, like just letting your baby cry. Right,

571
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: So you're saying, if that's something that just freaks you out,

572
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that you necessarily can still achieve getting

573
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,479
Speaker 1: some sort of sleep schedule in place, right, And timing

574
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: is a key component of it, Like you can get

575
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 1: your baby down if the timing is right and you're

576
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: processing their sleepy cues and getting all the things in

577
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: line that I can go down without crying. Oh, it

578
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: might take a little bit, but I watched my baby

579
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: like a hawk. As soon as I see like yawn

580
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: one to three, I'm like, we got nap, baby, we

581
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: got nap. But I'm going to catch him before the

582
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: breakdown happens. But like I know when I've crossed over

583
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: into breakdown land where I missed. I was doing whatever

584
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: and I didn't see the cues of the rubbing eyes

585
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: and the yawning and whatever, and now we're into full

586
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: blown but bye, And now I know it's gonna be

587
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: so much harder to get them down. Um, this is

588
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: so so so all interesting, and I think that that's

589
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: very helpful to know for moms who might be super

590
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: turned off by the stigma attached with crying it out,

591
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: or feel really upset about babies crying and their own

592
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: baby crying, that there are options, like you've said, the

593
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: Ferber method and what was the other one? Others others. Chair,

594
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: there's a sleepwave, they's hug it out. There's another I'll

595
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: get out. We didn't talk about you at all. What's that?

596
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: So it's another gentle version. So you have a baby

597
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: that's standing, Um, I haven't gotten there yet, guys, I

598
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: am scared. Okay, it's similar to chair, but you don't

599
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: pick up your baby, but you kind of go over

600
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: and you just kind of like I'm here, hug yeah,

601
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: and then I'll slowly like calm down with your calmness

602
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: and they'll light down. Oh my gosh. So I did

603
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: hug it out with my daughter at some point when

604
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: she was standing, because she was she was sleeping very well.

605
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: And then you know, some developmental thing. So that's also

606
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: the thing where you might have your sleep thing down

607
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden rolling over his new

608
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: four months sleep regression is new. We're standing now, we're

609
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: pulling ourselves over the crib, and we are mcgivering and

610
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: matrix ng our way down the side of the crib.

611
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 1: I'm so scared for that to happen. By the way,

612
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: I'm like, that'll be another episode. Oh good. Then I

613
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: had a friend who um when her son got the

614
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: big boy bed. He kept running out of his bed,

615
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: drunk with freedom and getting into their room every single night,

616
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: like in the middle of the night whenever he woke

617
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: up and they put a gate up, and then he

618
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: would scream cry through the night on the other side

619
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: of the gate and say, I'm bleeding, I'm hurt, I

620
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: need to change my shirt, I'm all wet. I mean

621
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: not true things. And I just have a vision of

622
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 1: my friend and her husband holding each other sobbing to

623
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: stay strong and not go because he had to walk

624
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: his own self back to his big boy bed and

625
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: put himself to sleep. Guys, this is not for the

626
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 1: faint of art being a parent and whatever method you choose,

627
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: just getting through the night and everyone having sleep. It's safety, guys.

628
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: Like there were moments you're driving behind a wheel of

629
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: the car. You need sleep. So we've talked a little

630
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: bit about the benefits of sleep training for the baby,

631
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: um developmentally, but also I'm sure you probably see huge

632
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 1: leaps and bounds in in parents themselves when they get sleep. Yes, Um,

633
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: we're able when we get sleep, We're able to be

634
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: more responsive to them versus being reactive. Because when I

635
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: know when I don't get sleep, I'm snappy for sure,

636
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: and I don't need to take it out on them

637
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: just because there having a tantrum over something and I

638
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 1: blow up at them because I'm tired. Right, So getting

639
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: sleep in line, not only for them but for you

640
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: is really important so you can parent better too and

641
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: get behind the wheel of a car drive them somewhere, yes,

642
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: or just yourself. Yes, But yes, it's it's sleep. Is

643
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 1: I had never gone without sleep in my entire life.

644
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: I had never. I mean, any time I'd had like

645
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,479
Speaker 1: a crazy night all night are in college to get

646
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: a paper in or something, I would sleep the next day.

647
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: Or any time those early twenty years where I partied

648
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 1: really hard or whatever, I would sleep the next day.

649
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: You didn't have to do anything. No, And when I

650
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: brought my son home, I for the first time my

651
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: whole life went three nights without sleep, and my husband said,

652
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: I was saying crazy things, like literally crazy things. I

653
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 1: was scared, Like, I I really enjoy sleeping, I like napping,

654
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 1: I like my eight hours, and sleep was, like, all

655
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 1: of a sudden, the most important thing. And I'm so

656
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,399
Speaker 1: happy to know you. There are tons of different options

657
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: with figuring out what a parent is comfortable with for

658
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: themselves and for their baby and for their family, But

659
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 1: what we know is that sleep is more important day

660
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: and that's what I do too, is building a relationship

661
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: with the family to understand them, and you know, are

662
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: they working, are they not working, Who's taking care of

663
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: the baby during the day, What type of schedules do

664
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: we need? Um? Kind of putting it all to ore

665
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 1: they going to daycare, are they going to preschool? Um?

666
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 1: When naps look like they're what are their philosophy? Kind

667
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: of putting it all together for them so that they

668
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: can have a plan of what to do when they

669
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: do get home or maybe they're not getting home in time,

670
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: so it really tailoring it to your individual case. Susie Mankis,

671
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 1: you are awesome, healthy little sleepers. You guys, Um, thank

672
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 1: you so much for all of your time and your

673
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 1: information and for talking about babies and sleeping. You're welcome

674
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 1: for the pleasure. Hi, guys, I am so excited today

675
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 1: because my dear friend Abigail Morgan is here, and she

676
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 1: is not only a very good friend, but she really

677
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 1: helped me through very rough time in my life after

678
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: my miscarriage. Um I, it took me months to get

679
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: a regular cycle back. It took me months to feel

680
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: like myself again. Abigail was the person that stuck needles

681
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 1: in me lovingly every single week I got pregnant. And

682
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: I also went to Abigail every week of my pregnancy,

683
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 1: and she visited me at home after I gave birth.

684
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: Um So, not only is it like acupuncture, but you

685
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: were a helper and spiritual help to me mentally physically

686
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 1: pre pregnancy, throughout my pregnancy and after my pregnancy. Thank

687
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 1: you for that. You're welcome. I explain a little bit

688
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 1: about what you do, and then we'll we'll move into

689
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 1: um all of the awesome stuff you do to your

690
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: with your own children, because you are a mother of two.

691
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 1: I am yeah. So I'm a licensed acupuncturist and herbalist,

692
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 1: board certified in traditional Chinese medicine in the state of California.

693
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 1: So what that means is that I'm I have a

694
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 1: master's degree in Traditional Chinese Medicine Masters and Science and UM.

695
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: I am a primary care physician in California. So I

696
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: have to diagnose using you know, biomedical codes UM and

697
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: let's say you know ib s or dysmenorrhea, painful periods

698
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 1: or migraines, whatever it is, UM, and understand what that

699
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 1: means from a Western perspective, but then also diagnose and

700
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: treat according to Eastern medicine or traditional Chinese medicine. I

701
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 1: specialize in reproductive health, so I have an additional board

702
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 1: sort of vacation from the American Board of Oriental Reproductive

703
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 1: Medicine in UM Integrated Reproductive Health, and it is float

704
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: Chinese Float, Chinese Medical Arts, yes, yes, flow Chinese Medical Arts.

705
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 1: And you when you're not busy doing that, you're a

706
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: mom of two I am, and they howl. My kids

707
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:24,720
Speaker 1: are seven and nine, and they're gosh almost eight, almost ten, great,

708
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: And I want to talk to you a lot about

709
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,240
Speaker 1: when we started to get close mere working together throughout

710
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: my pregnancy. I was and still am very fascinated in

711
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 1: the way in which you raise your kids, which I

712
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 1: think is great for this episode, and I would love

713
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:42,760
Speaker 1: to talk to you about how you raise them really

714
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: like through sleep, through food, all of your because I

715
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 1: know you worked with attachment parenting. You had a family bed,

716
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: and I'm fascinated by these things because I've met your

717
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: kids and they're awesome. So clearly the things you did

718
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 1: were successful for you and your family. Um, can you

719
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 1: talk to me how you came to the decision about

720
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: a family bed and what is that exactly? Well? For me, Um,

721
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 1: I grew up in New York City. My parents were

722
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: in the theater business. They're very had a very unconventional upbringing. UM,

723
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: and I, you know, I was I felt like, well

724
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 1: I kind of grew up, Okay, I'm well adjusted, Like

725
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,240
Speaker 1: what did they do? And I didn't honestly know apparently

726
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: that I had a crib and everything. But my mom's like, yeah,

727
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 1: but you were in our bed every night. Oh your

728
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: brother was in our bed until he was six. So

729
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,760
Speaker 1: I just thought, well that worked. And then I also

730
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,959
Speaker 1: had other people in my life who were doing family bed. Um,

731
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 1: what is it? What is that? What does that mean? Basically?

732
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 1: Bed sharing, there's okay, so there's room sharing and there's

733
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 1: bed sharing. So now we know the American Academy Pediatrics

734
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: recommends room sharing as of two thousands, sixteen, up until

735
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 1: minimum of six months, preferably a year. How they say, so,

736
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,359
Speaker 1: even if you have your baby in a crib, the

737
00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 1: a a p recommends crippy in the room. Now that's

738
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: obviously not the right answer for everybody, but they came

739
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: to that decision after a hole and my understanding is

740
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:11,240
Speaker 1: um after a lot of pediatricians were reporting, yeah, infant

741
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 1: death from from kids from parents that weren't attentive to

742
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 1: let's say they didn't have a monitor or you know,

743
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,879
Speaker 1: they were relying too much on it or wearing noise

744
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: canceling iPhones or something. So so that said, I felt

745
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,720
Speaker 1: that I just wanted to be close to my baby.

746
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,879
Speaker 1: I I felt that it would be hard to get

747
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 1: up out of bed and go into another room and

748
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 1: take the baby out of the crib and nurse and

749
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 1: put the baby back. We also had a small two

750
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:40,359
Speaker 1: bedroom apartment at the time, when I had logically, logistically,

751
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 1: you know, it didn't I feel like it made a

752
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 1: whole lot of sense. The walls were you know, it's

753
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: like a nineteen sixties building with paper thin walls. We

754
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 1: would have heard the kid anyway. And I just wanted

755
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 1: to sleep as much as possible because I knew i'd

756
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,959
Speaker 1: be going back to work and all that. I also

757
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,280
Speaker 1: read a book I had to write down the title

758
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: because I, um, I haven't looked at and so long,

759
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: but it was called The Continuum Calm The Continuum Concept

760
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: by Gene Leadloff from six. I read it probably in

761
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,280
Speaker 1: two thousand, um way before I thought about having kids,

762
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: and um, the it's a it's a book by an

763
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: anthropologist who went into essentially a pre industrial society and

764
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: looked at how these parents were all functioned and they

765
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:26,760
Speaker 1: all wear their babies. So then I looked into attachment

766
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: parenting and I looked into how that's based on attachment theory.

767
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: This is yes, but explained to our listeners what exactly

768
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 1: is attachment parenting because you know, there are a lot

769
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: of these trigger words when you're a new mom or

770
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: when you're pregnant that you hear, like sleep training, the

771
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 1: cryed out method, attachment parenting, a family bed, co sleeping.

772
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 1: These are all such triggering words that I think are

773
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 1: like not what's fascinating is that you've done some of them,

774
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 1: and can you explain what exactly attachment parenting is and

775
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: that worked for you? I can't, and I feel like

776
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 1: I didn't fully explain the answer to your question about

777
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 1: family bed Yes, we will get that. So. Yeah, So basically,

778
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 1: bed sharing is parents or caregivers in the same bed

779
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: as the baby. Room sharing is maybe there's a sidecar,

780
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 1: you in one bed with you and your husband and

781
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 1: your baby. And then when the second kid came around,

782
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 1: we already had what's called a sidecar, a small um

783
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 1: infant mattress on the floor, and our king bed was

784
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 1: on the floor right next to him. Yeah, and so

785
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: that but then shortly after my second kid was born

786
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: there two years apart, he was like I'm out room.

787
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he was like, this is you know this

788
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 1: waking up in the middle of the night baby infant stuff,

789
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 1: Like I'm over now the fear that people have about

790
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 1: like blankets, sheets rolling over on your baby. How did

791
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: that just not happen? It doesn't happen. But there are

792
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: safe sleeping guidelines and your listeners can look them up

793
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,919
Speaker 1: from Dr James McKenna. He actually wrote a great book

794
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: called sleeping with your baby, A parent's guide to co sleeping,

795
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: and so all of that is explained in that look.

796
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 1: But you know, the long and short of it is,

797
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 1: you don't have a lot of blankets. You don't have

798
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: blankets over the baby. It basically goes the breastfeeding parent, uh,

799
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 1: and then and the baby some sort of bedrail or

800
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 1: wall baby, breastfeeding parent and then other parent. So we

801
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 1: actually that's the best way to do it. That's actually

802
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 1: not what we ended up doing. The configuration of the

803
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,879
Speaker 1: of the room. We had dad on one side, baby

804
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,760
Speaker 1: in the middle, and me and we just baby didn't

805
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 1: have our comforter over him. We made a U shape

806
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 1: with the comforter god or we had two separate comforters,

807
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: depending on the time of here. You know here we

808
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 1: are in Los Angeles, right, you don't really are, so, yeah,

809
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: it's different than and so when the baby would wake

810
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 1: up and make sounds, you would just roll over and

811
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 1: lay down breastfeed he is right there. So the beauty

812
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: of beauty of it is that you know with que

813
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 1: feeding overnight is baby goes you know in roots and

814
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: even at eight weeks self attaches and I'm like, oh,

815
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 1: I guess he's nursing, you wake up and then you're

816
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 1: done and you go back to sleep. Yeah, so the

817
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 1: nursing hormones, the oxytocin and all those feel good hormones

818
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 1: really help me as the rest gating mom to go

819
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 1: back to sleep. Sure, and and then you do that

820
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 1: in a safe way. By not you don't obviously that

821
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: there's a suffocation hazard if there's a big blanket over

822
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 1: the baby, of course, so we would have our own

823
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: little baby blanket over him, or a sleep sack or

824
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 1: something like that, various things depending on the time of year.

825
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 1: If it was warm, then baby would just be in

826
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 1: a sleeper without any blankets. And then when you gave

827
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,399
Speaker 1: birth to your second baby, how did the bed look there?

828
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 1: So fascinating? Yeah so at I my toddler was still nursing.

829
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,879
Speaker 1: He I breastfed through my whole second pregnancy. Um oh yeah,

830
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 1: you guys, Abigail as a champion who tandem breastbed. That's

831
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 1: why I ever heard of that. That's two babies, one

832
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 1: on each boob. Yeah, not always at the same time,

833
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: although they were at the same time sometimes. Um, it

834
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 1: was just the second pregnancy was not. It took us

835
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 1: by surprise. So they were two years apart. So the

836
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 1: was a older kid who was too when my the

837
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 1: second one was born, was at that time from eighteen months.

838
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: From his age eighteen months until baby two was born,

839
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 1: he was sleeping in a sidecar arrangement, so he was

840
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 1: on the floor in a small baby mattress. Yeah, next

841
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 1: to our bed. So we would put him down at

842
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:18,920
Speaker 1: his bedtime six thirty or seven or whatever it was,

843
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 1: and then we would go leave the room and go

844
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 1: about our night, and then we would just go in

845
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 1: and sleep in the family bed. And so when baby

846
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 1: two was born, um, and I had both kids at home.

847
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 1: So baby Nuver two was born. That my birth was

848
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 1: super super fast. The whole thing was about an hour. Um.

849
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 1: My husband had been putting my older kid to bed,

850
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,399
Speaker 1: the two year old, while I was realizing, holy shit,

851
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: I'm in labor. And then you know, an hour later later,

852
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 1: the baby's born in the in the kitchen and water birth.

853
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 1: This was a planned home birth, i should say, with

854
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: a with a nurse midwife. Um. So then the next

855
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 1: morning my son met the new baby and he just

856
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 1: kind of toddled out of his little sidecar bed. Um.

857
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: I think I had slept in the couch pull out

858
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 1: that night, whatever sleep after, Like Superwoman, I can't just

859
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 1: what made sense? I mean? And and so when shortly

860
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,279
Speaker 1: after you asked how the sleep when the number two

861
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 1: was born, so she we co slept with her and UM,

862
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 1: and then after the first couple of nights, it became clear, Okay,

863
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 1: so toddler really needs to continue having this eleven hour

864
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 1: straight sleep which he had been getting, and UM and

865
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 1: my husband needed sleep, And so I slept in the

866
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 1: twin bed in my son's room, which he hadn't even

867
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 1: moved into yet. This is our two bedroom house, right,

868
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 1: we upgraded, but it was still only two bedrooms, And

869
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: so I slept in the twin bed with my daughter,

870
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 1: the newborn, so that she could queue feed. That said

871
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,280
Speaker 1: she would go three four hours straight from newborn age,

872
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 1: which you know, you can't really let a newborn more

873
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: than four hours from when a breastfeed. So I had

874
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 1: to sometimes wake her. UM. But she was a totally

875
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 1: different type of breastfeeder than than her older brother was

876
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 1: UM and they are to this day. They eat in

877
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: very different ways of different metalism. UM where he was

878
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 1: just you know, like a hummingbird, nursing frequently and she

879
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 1: was like whatever, I'm like, fast asleep. How did you?

880
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 1: And then we all went into the family bed. I

881
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 1: don't know, she was maybe a month old. I brought

882
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: her back into the family bed and then I'm out.

883
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:18,320
Speaker 1: He was two years old, and he was like forget,

884
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 1: was like moms up every four hours or less? Yea.

885
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 1: And I don't even know if he knew that I

886
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 1: was up, because you know, it's quiet. It's not like

887
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 1: the child is screaming right right, feed them when they're hungry.

888
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:33,840
Speaker 1: But he just I think that he was so completely

889
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,280
Speaker 1: appalled that there was another child to be joined the family.

890
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 1: Was like, I'm going to just pretend this isn't happening.

891
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:44,399
Speaker 1: And so we gave How did you find? Um? How

892
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 1: is it on a relationship? You know? I think that

893
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 1: like I imagine I had the cozy moments of like,

894
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: you know, because I didn't do Albie was. I was

895
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: really really sick after I gave birth. I had probably

896
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 1: the worst cold and cough I've ever had in my

897
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 1: entire life. UM, and so Albie was sleeping in his

898
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 1: crib outside of my room from day one, UM with

899
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 1: a night nurse. And I really still romanticized the idea

900
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 1: of like the whole family being in a bed and

901
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 1: all of these things. But realistically, since you have done

902
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 1: it for a long time, you had a family bed,

903
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: how does that look with your relationship, like with your husband?

904
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 1: Is it like? Do you know what I mean? Yeah,

905
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 1: it's a good question. I'm sure it looks different for

906
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: every family. I know it does because I have a

907
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: lot of friends and family members who've done family bed

908
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 1: and many of them even longer than we did. So

909
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 1: I'm just going to speak from my own experience, but

910
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 1: it was amazing when my first one was born, you know,

911
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 1: it really was. And this is a kid who physiologically

912
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: needed to eat every forty five minutes to an hour

913
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 1: and a half until he was about a year old.

914
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 1: That was just who he is, and he would get

915
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 1: super full fast. His kid is a newborn could drain

916
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:01,319
Speaker 1: abreast in five minutes for you guys, like it would

917
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 1: take that sometimes at the beginning I would be breastfeeding

918
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 1: for and I remember asking my midwife, who was also

919
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:10,359
Speaker 1: you know, lactation expert, like, what about twenty minutes per side?

920
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 1: Isn't it supposed to She's like, honey, watched the baby,

921
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 1: not the clock, and that was the best advice I got. Right, So,

922
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 1: in the light of all of these repeated surges of

923
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 1: oxytocin and the feel good hormones that you know, our

924
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 1: brain has the pituitary gland, which is between our eyes

925
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:29,200
Speaker 1: and the forehead, secretes oxytocin, which stimulates uter in contractions.

926
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:30,839
Speaker 1: So that's part of what helps the uterus go back

927
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 1: to its normal size after giving birth and also stimulates

928
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: that prolactin comes from there to stimulates the milk let down.

929
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,839
Speaker 1: So every time you get that surge of oxytocin, the

930
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 1: prolactin milk let down, you know, it feels kind of

931
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 1: like being high, you know, you're a little bit in college,

932
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 1: or I could just say it's you know, it's a

933
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:53,280
Speaker 1: really heavy or or like a post orgasmic feeling, except

934
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 1: it's not sexual. It's just really feel you're all in bed,

935
00:48:56,280 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 1: feeling swimming in you know, the cooked of of mother homoes.

936
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: That's what you were feeling, and I was feeling. I

937
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 1: also felt a lot of anxiety right. Um. My husband

938
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: and I were talking about this the other day that

939
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 1: he's like, do you remember when we could you drop

940
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: a fork in the kitchen and we would panic because

941
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:16,400
Speaker 1: we thought he was going to wake up because he

942
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: was such a light sleeper. I can't. I mean, I'm

943
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,720
Speaker 1: oh my gosh. Yeah. So the first time was was

944
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 1: was amazing, but it was also it also was not

945
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 1: without its challenges. Did you feel that you got quality

946
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 1: It sounds like you've got quality sleep in this situation

947
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 1: because you weren't having to get out of bed. I

948
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:39,439
Speaker 1: remember that to go breastfeed, like for you going back

949
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:41,440
Speaker 1: to work, it was all about logging the most amount

950
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 1: of minutes possible to sleep, and that would mean having

951
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:45,360
Speaker 1: the baby right there next to you. Means you're not

952
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:46,839
Speaker 1: getting up out of bed to get the baby out

953
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 1: of the crib and skin. It's better, you know, regulation

954
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 1: of the breastfeeding mechanism, the you know, the letdown reflects

955
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 1: happens sooner when your baby's right next to you. Um.

956
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: And then baby wearing, which we did during the day.

957
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 1: And this is all in regards to attachment parenting, is

958
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 1: what we're talking about. Can you explain a little bit

959
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 1: about what that means? Yes, absolutely, Well, there's the eight

960
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 1: principles of attachment parenting can be found from Attachment Parenting

961
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 1: dot org, which is a not for profit organization. But

962
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,760
Speaker 1: basically it's based on attachment theory, which goes way way back.

963
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 1: But um, it's the psychological model that describes relationships between humans,

964
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 1: and attachment theory is now the primary, the dominant theory

965
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 1: used in child development UM, in infant and toddler mental health.

966
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 1: This is what psychotherapists us. It's called attachment theory theory UM.

967
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:37,840
Speaker 1: And so we look at it in the West in

968
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 1: terms of the diade, like the mother infant diade, but um,

969
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 1: really we need to look at the whole world and

970
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 1: see that in most cultures it's not a nuclear family. Right.

971
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 1: We're kind of forgive me, we're kind of fucked in

972
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 1: because this whole idea of it's like one or two

973
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:57,720
Speaker 1: parents raising kids is not you guys, it really really

974
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 1: is true? Yes, yes, um. So attachment attachment parenting looks

975
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:07,839
Speaker 1: at um being the a having a primary character, which

976
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 1: usually ends up being the mother who gave birth. But

977
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be. I had a good friend

978
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 1: whose wife went back to work at Disney as a

979
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 1: producer like six weeks after giving birth, and he was

980
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 1: they were attachment parenting, so she would they co slept

981
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 1: and but he was the baby wearing dad and he

982
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 1: was at the park with us and all of that,

983
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:29,919
Speaker 1: And so it doesn't have to be just a mom

984
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:34,440
Speaker 1: So it doesn't have basically means like that the baby

985
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 1: is always close to you in proximity. Yeah, always and

986
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:41,799
Speaker 1: most of the time. So baby wearing allows you to

987
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 1: kind of go about your day while having the baby

988
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 1: close to you. Baby would for me, baby would sleep

989
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 1: on me, and we baby where I had like fourteen

990
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 1: different baby carriers, um, and so some in the beginning

991
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:53,840
Speaker 1: were more appropriate to an infant, and then as the

992
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:56,840
Speaker 1: older Yeah, and then once I had you know, I

993
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 1: got pregnant, I was wearing him more on my back

994
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 1: um and then coast sleeping or bedshine. You are que feeding, wow,

995
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 1: And okay, so explain que feeding. This is also a

996
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:08,759
Speaker 1: whole thing. And then I want to get into a

997
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:12,879
Speaker 1: little bit about how you naturally got your babies sort

998
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: of on a schedule on their own and because you

999
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 1: did end up going you went back to work after

1000
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 1: the first kid. I went back to work about three

1001
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 1: and a half months after giving birth. But you know,

1002
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 1: I'm my own business owner, so I wasn't going back

1003
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 1: to work in the nine to six corporate office with

1004
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 1: an hour community each way, right, you were just having

1005
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 1: your own hours. You do that plan, so you practice

1006
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:36,439
Speaker 1: co sleeping attachment parenting. You would wear that, you would

1007
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:38,919
Speaker 1: sleep with the baby on you for naps in your

1008
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 1: bed at night, and then you would wear him and

1009
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 1: her as you did stuff that the day. I should

1010
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: point out when my husband, my husband was the primary

1011
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 1: caregiver on when I went back to work, he would

1012
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 1: do the baby wearing, and on the weekends we both

1013
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 1: would and then when we had a babysitter, they would

1014
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 1: wear the baby. Did you find there to be any

1015
00:52:55,239 --> 00:53:00,320
Speaker 1: sort of huge separation that happened or does the baby

1016
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 1: just decide like, mom, I don't want to be warned,

1017
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 1: like you know, when they start to really separate, look

1018
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:11,839
Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, it's it's clear. You know. Basically, I

1019
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 1: feel that it's important to look at the brain and

1020
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 1: brain development. And so when attachment theory looks at how

1021
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:22,359
Speaker 1: an infant responds when they are separated from their primary caregiver. Right,

1022
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 1: and so in in Africa, in um certain countries that

1023
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 1: are we might call pre pre industrial, you know, where

1024
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 1: they still have UM the I can't spacing on the

1025
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:35,800
Speaker 1: word for it, but there's multiple mothers in the village

1026
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 1: still goes on in many parts of This idea of

1027
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:45,239
Speaker 1: solitary sleep is less than a hundred years old, so

1028
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 1: to kind of just put that in perspective, if you

1029
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 1: think of how long we've been around as a human race.

1030
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 1: So if a child is separated by themselves in the dark, scared,

1031
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 1: that goes into um, you know, what's called our implicit memory.

1032
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:00,479
Speaker 1: So they look at it. This is more of Dr

1033
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 1: Dan Siegel, who's a psychotherapist and neurobiologist UM here in California,

1034
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:09,800
Speaker 1: but um looking at how how the brain works, the amygdala,

1035
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 1: the hippocampus, the parts of brain that store our raw

1036
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:16,840
Speaker 1: sensory memory. This is this stuff that's you know, pre verbal.

1037
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 1: But if you let's say a child is attacked by

1038
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:23,800
Speaker 1: a bear, you know, just because there's three months doesn't

1039
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: mean they're not going to remember, because it goes in

1040
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:29,440
Speaker 1: there somewhere, of course. And so the same thing happens

1041
00:54:29,719 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 1: when a child is by themselves alone. Yeah, and and

1042
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:35,840
Speaker 1: so the idea is not to never leave your child alone.

1043
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 1: But with attached and parenting, we are they you're really

1044
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:41,759
Speaker 1: looking for their cues of when they are ready. Like

1045
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 1: you carried this baby inside of you when they were

1046
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:46,320
Speaker 1: not alone for ten months, and now the babies outside

1047
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 1: of you, and you keep them close and they will

1048
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 1: make it clear within when they are ready for any

1049
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 1: sort of distance. Is that sort of the well, yes,

1050
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:56,759
Speaker 1: but also when the mom and the dad or the

1051
00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:00,399
Speaker 1: parents are ready exactly for whatever it is. Know, there's

1052
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 1: a there's a soothing approach so that the child is

1053
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:06,319
Speaker 1: associating going to sleep with being safe. If the child

1054
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 1: associates going to sleep with being in a state of

1055
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 1: terror and fear, then you can bet that kid's going

1056
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:13,960
Speaker 1: to have problems later on in life with those implicit memories.

1057
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 1: Got it. So I saw that a lot because I

1058
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:19,400
Speaker 1: worked with moms for so long before I became a parent,

1059
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 1: and I saw that, and I just didn't want that.

1060
00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:24,520
Speaker 1: You knew in your heart that that was not like

1061
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:27,879
Speaker 1: you were never going to be. For example, this whole

1062
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 1: cryed out method are letting babies really cry when they

1063
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 1: go to sleep fundamentally and psychologically to you. That didn't

1064
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:36,319
Speaker 1: sit right to me and my husband, and we talked

1065
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 1: about it quite a lot, especially in pregnancy. You just

1066
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 1: knew that you were going to always put your baby

1067
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 1: to sleep in a state of comfort and peace and safety.

1068
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:47,880
Speaker 1: That was the idea. And then when eventually I nightleaned

1069
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 1: my my oldest child when he was about seventeen months,

1070
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:53,319
Speaker 1: we used the doctor J Gordon, who is a pediatrician

1071
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 1: on the West side of California, Santa Monica, rather west

1072
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:01,040
Speaker 1: side west side California, the west side. But yes, so

1073
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:03,880
Speaker 1: what did you say? And um, and that approach is

1074
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:06,440
Speaker 1: picking a seven hour chunk because the definition of sleeping

1075
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:08,759
Speaker 1: through the night is about seven hours. Um, you know,

1076
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:10,560
Speaker 1: for a child under about a year. And he says,

1077
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:13,800
Speaker 1: do not use this method under like twelve to fourteen months.

1078
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 1: But we picked a seven hour chunk because I was

1079
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 1: just tired of nursing all night through my pregnancy. Honestly,

1080
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 1: like that point, literally, I'm sitting here, you guys, I'm

1081
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:26,440
Speaker 1: probably the most quiet I've ever been in any of

1082
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 1: the podcast because my mouth is on the floor, just

1083
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:31,799
Speaker 1: a gape at like and that you look pretty and

1084
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 1: you're like well rested, and you did all of this.

1085
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 1: I just can't even imagine it. Okay, so well, they

1086
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:38,440
Speaker 1: do eventually sleep, but yeah, the idea was pick a

1087
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 1: seven hour chunk. And he says, you know, eleven PM

1088
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:46,400
Speaker 1: to six am, yeah, exactly, um, and and when instead

1089
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:48,840
Speaker 1: of it's gradual, but for us it took about a

1090
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:50,800
Speaker 1: week and we did it with both kids. So instead

1091
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:53,479
Speaker 1: of nursing to sleep, you breastfeed and then after eleven

1092
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 1: PM you don't breastfeed at all, and so you do

1093
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 1: shishing and patting their back, but it's still within the

1094
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 1: family bed. So this approach is fantastic if you're doing

1095
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 1: family bed but you want to, you're ready to night

1096
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 1: lean your kids because you're making themselves feel safe and comforted,

1097
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:09,880
Speaker 1: but not through food and nursing anything. And it doesn't

1098
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 1: have to be the quote primary parent, It doesn't have

1099
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:13,960
Speaker 1: to be the mom as long as everybody's on the

1100
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 1: same page and you're really clear on your guide. So

1101
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 1: when did you start to see a schedule? I'm assuming

1102
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:23,640
Speaker 1: it started to naturally form because then you went back

1103
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 1: to work and I know that your baby was cared

1104
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 1: for by your husband and then also at daycare and

1105
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 1: things like that, Like, how did you continue this sort

1106
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 1: of methodology with really basically being sort of on demand

1107
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:40,000
Speaker 1: and taking things off of cues of your baby, um

1108
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 1: when other people are involved, right, Well, we did dare

1109
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 1: daycareed in startil eighteen months, so I didn't have the

1110
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 1: experience of infant daycare, which I know a lot of

1111
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 1: people who have. But I went back to work three

1112
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 1: days a week and two days my husband was on

1113
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 1: was the primary parent, and then one day we had

1114
00:57:57,680 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 1: a and you guys, who we saw eye to eye

1115
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 1: like he could do it, no problem. Yeah, we did,

1116
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 1: and we still did, and he would just feed a

1117
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:06,720
Speaker 1: bottle before. The idea with que feeding is that whether

1118
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 1: you're bottle feeding or your breastfeeding, if you have listeners

1119
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:10,680
Speaker 1: who have really tried to breastfeed but can't, you can

1120
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 1: absolutely still do cue feeding. Whether it's with breast milk,

1121
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 1: your own breast milk that's pumped don't, or milk formula,

1122
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 1: whatever it is, it's food, and que feeding is basically

1123
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 1: like you think they're hungry, they're expressing that they're hungry. Feed.

1124
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:23,880
Speaker 1: You learn their cues pretty quickly, just like you do

1125
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 1: with with when they need to poop, which is the

1126
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 1: whole other conversation for another episode. But so I went

1127
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 1: back to work at three and a half months after

1128
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 1: baby number one was born, and um at that point

1129
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 1: he had really around I think about three months. He

1130
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: settled into a pretty predictable pattern of breastfeeding, of sleep.

1131
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 1: And I believe rhythm and routine are so important. Um.

1132
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 1: I love that sort of Walldorf approach of rhythm and routine.

1133
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:52,720
Speaker 1: Um of you know, a Rudolf Steiner of babies love routine.

1134
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 1: They can be you know, looking at the baby's cues,

1135
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:57,439
Speaker 1: just like I explained, my first kid and my second

1136
00:58:57,480 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 1: kid totally different metabolisms. You know, one need to eat

1137
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 1: every and the only one could totally by six months

1138
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 1: was going like much much longer. So um, So we

1139
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 1: would watch their cues and then if it was a

1140
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 1: caregiver there, they would give a bottle of breast milk. Um.

1141
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 1: And then you know often wear the baby or or

1142
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 1: bounce on a ball and put them down to sleep

1143
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 1: in their bed and then go about their business. Um

1144
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 1: and I do were to daycare, and they weren't on

1145
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 1: a set schedule, for example, like they weren't saying like

1146
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 1: we do nap time here for to dake care was

1147
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:29,680
Speaker 1: until eighteen months. Okay, so by that time the baby

1148
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:32,480
Speaker 1: was set one and a half year old. Yeah he was.

1149
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 1: I mean by the time he started daycare, he was

1150
00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:36,920
Speaker 1: probably waking up once a night, maybe twice a night

1151
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:39,360
Speaker 1: to nurse. No. No, that's actually because we night wanted

1152
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 1: seventeen eighteen months, so he was waking more frequently. But

1153
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 1: basically the full three full days a week of daycare

1154
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 1: when that started, um was about the time he was

1155
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 1: sleeping straight through the night, eleven hour straight. So no,

1156
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:54,320
Speaker 1: they had a set naptime, you know, one to two thirty.

1157
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 1: And I've said, how the heck are you going to

1158
00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 1: get fourteen kids to nap at the same time, and

1159
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 1: they said, oh, we just it happened. And they they're

1160
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 1: incredibly loving and they sit there and they pat their

1161
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 1: backs and then it's contagious. All the kids are turn

1162
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:11,600
Speaker 1: on that white noise exactly, and I couldn't believe it.

1163
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:15,840
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god. So, um, what did

1164
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:19,960
Speaker 1: have you found to be the benefits of co sleeping?

1165
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 1: So the advantage is basically from when they night leaned,

1166
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 1: stopped nursing overnight, but continue nursing during the day. Um,

1167
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:31,680
Speaker 1: they have not had any sleep aggressions at all, and

1168
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 1: so uh, and they have positive associations with sleep. They're

1169
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 1: basically they're not afraid of it. They're not getting in

1170
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 1: a dark room and freaking out. The biggest issue now

1171
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:42,480
Speaker 1: is but mom, I'm not done with this chapter. They

1172
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:45,680
Speaker 1: want to keep reading, and we have a firm lights out,

1173
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:47,600
Speaker 1: you know role, and I know, I know you want

1174
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:50,240
Speaker 1: to keep reading. So I really take an empathy based

1175
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 1: approach to parenting and that just grows with them. You know.

1176
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:55,960
Speaker 1: Now they're in second and fourth grade and their sleep

1177
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 1: is absolutely crucial. So if anything, it's they don't want

1178
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 1: to go to bed soon, not even if they're still

1179
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:03,000
Speaker 1: like in bed at seven thirty, that's a hard out

1180
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 1: for us. But they may be reading for an hour

1181
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 1: and a half and so you know, we have to

1182
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:09,800
Speaker 1: turn the bedded seven thirty and then they go to

1183
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 1: sleep at nine. They might read well, I mean, my

1184
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 1: daughters out by eight fifteen most nights, but my son

1185
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 1: will push it as late as can. I be your kid,

1186
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:20,880
Speaker 1: this is like, that sounds well, they have to be

1187
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:24,360
Speaker 1: up at six delicious school. So yeah, and I'm in

1188
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:28,080
Speaker 1: bed bow. I treat a lot of insomnie in my practice,

1189
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 1: and a lot of the adults I work with did

1190
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:32,240
Speaker 1: not have healthy sleep hygiene as kids, and so I

1191
01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 1: think sleep hygiene, you know, however, that's defined, it looks

1192
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:37,960
Speaker 1: different for every family. Is super important for setting us

1193
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:40,960
Speaker 1: up as adults because the brain is so malleable. You know,

1194
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 1: it's not fully milinated until age seven. Um, what advice

1195
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 1: would you give to parents who might be looking into

1196
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 1: making a choice like this. The number one piece of

1197
01:01:55,600 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 1: advice I would give is trust your instinct, Trust your intuition,

1198
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:03,440
Speaker 1: because it's never wrong. And if you are married, and

1199
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 1: you're because a lot of the people I work with

1200
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:07,959
Speaker 1: are going about this alone. Um, single moms by choice,

1201
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:10,760
Speaker 1: But if you with your partner or the person that

1202
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:14,320
Speaker 1: you're deciding to raise your kids with, make sure that

1203
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:18,439
Speaker 1: you talk about all these questions first, not all of them,

1204
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:20,680
Speaker 1: but many of them. How what do you want parenting

1205
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:23,360
Speaker 1: to look like? Did you do that with your husband?

1206
01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:25,840
Speaker 1: I did? Like you guys knew while you were pregnant,

1207
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:28,760
Speaker 1: you had spoken about a family bed and attachment parenting

1208
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:31,240
Speaker 1: and you had read books and I mean it was

1209
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 1: kind of hilarious. My my mother in law, Ga bless

1210
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 1: her through me a baby shower with a whole bunch

1211
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:38,840
Speaker 1: of her friends that I had never met before. She said,

1212
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:41,800
Speaker 1: so what's the nursery? Like? What is ther color theme?

1213
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:44,360
Speaker 1: You know? And I said, well, we were not going

1214
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:46,040
Speaker 1: to have a nursery because we have a two bedroom

1215
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:47,920
Speaker 1: apartment and one of them, one of the bedrooms was

1216
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:51,320
Speaker 1: our office, right and um, and the other was our bedroom,

1217
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 1: and so we were She's like, okay, well, you know,

1218
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:56,680
Speaker 1: are you going to find out the gender? I'm like, well,

1219
01:02:56,680 --> 01:02:58,680
Speaker 1: I'm not going to find out gender because there's no

1220
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:02,360
Speaker 1: test for gender, you know. But we elected not to

1221
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:05,000
Speaker 1: choose to find out the sex for my first so

1222
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:08,760
Speaker 1: we didn't know. So I literally got like thirty fantastic

1223
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 1: gifts that were all pink or green and um, and

1224
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:16,160
Speaker 1: my my mother in law net this adorable white baby

1225
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:18,960
Speaker 1: blanket for my son with a Raider patch on it

1226
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:23,960
Speaker 1: because my huss a huge Raider fan. She's determined to

1227
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:26,000
Speaker 1: have something in something, so I she was like, if

1228
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 1: I can't have a pick color, I'm gonna have a

1229
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:31,440
Speaker 1: blanket with a raider. And I love her. So the

1230
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 1: real thing, it's trust your instinct, which it's wonderful that

1231
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 1: I'm sitting here listening to because I I am such

1232
01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:42,919
Speaker 1: a libra in that. Yes, I'm just like very good

1233
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:45,720
Speaker 1: at weighing out. Like I love being a part of

1234
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:49,480
Speaker 1: this podcast because I love hearing how people do things.

1235
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:53,160
Speaker 1: And I also really am able to see way things

1236
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:55,920
Speaker 1: out and so for me instinctually it can get hard

1237
01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:58,360
Speaker 1: because I'm like, well, I'm feeling this, but maybe it's that,

1238
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:02,160
Speaker 1: but maybe it's this, but maybe yes, you know it's

1239
01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:04,320
Speaker 1: It's so good that you say that, because as a libra,

1240
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:07,240
Speaker 1: I have the same thing. I'm always wanting to know

1241
01:04:07,400 --> 01:04:09,080
Speaker 1: the in and the young things, the plus in the

1242
01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:15,360
Speaker 1: minus the cost benefit ratio exactly. And for a new parent,

1243
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 1: or you know, maybe a parent who had a kid

1244
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 1: nine ten years ago and is going to be doing

1245
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:21,840
Speaker 1: it all over again and thinking maybe I'll do things different.

1246
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:26,600
Speaker 1: You can go to the library, get books. Just it's you, guys.

1247
01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 1: That's why I Abigail's brought up so many amazing points

1248
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:31,120
Speaker 1: in this podcast that will all be listed in the

1249
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 1: crib notes. Absolutely, and just I think follow your instinct

1250
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 1: and follow your your inclination to learn more about something,

1251
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:43,040
Speaker 1: and ultimately you are the expert about your baby right

1252
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:48,000
Speaker 1: nobody else's And it for me, resisting the mommy wars

1253
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:51,120
Speaker 1: brought on a lot of anxiety. I felt judged. Whether

1254
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:53,600
Speaker 1: or not I was actually being judged, I would feel anxious,

1255
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:56,080
Speaker 1: Am I doing what's best for my kid? Can I

1256
01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:59,000
Speaker 1: be any better. But I've learned now almost ten years

1257
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:02,280
Speaker 1: into this, to just to surrender and let it go

1258
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 1: and detached with love and find acceptance with that uncertainty

1259
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:11,680
Speaker 1: because ultimately, you know, we really can't control our kids.

1260
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:15,640
Speaker 1: We can set no fee boundaries, I can try, but

1261
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:19,480
Speaker 1: absolutely we can set healthy boundaries and you know, have

1262
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:21,720
Speaker 1: a really good rhythm and routine in our day and

1263
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:25,280
Speaker 1: all that and and um and then ultimately I think,

1264
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:27,360
Speaker 1: I truly think a lot of the personality just come

1265
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:33,160
Speaker 1: into the world with it. Oh for sure, to know

1266
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:35,200
Speaker 1: that a lot of them just kind of came out

1267
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:39,200
Speaker 1: who they were really weird, they absolutely did. Yeah, I

1268
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:41,760
Speaker 1: my mom and dad read this book by t Berry

1269
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:45,840
Speaker 1: Brazilton who just passed away at age couple of months ago. Um,

1270
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:48,440
Speaker 1: and he's, you know, a world famous guy, but he

1271
01:05:48,560 --> 01:05:51,520
Speaker 1: was like the pediatrician and the post spock era who

1272
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:54,800
Speaker 1: was started talking about this attachment theory and all that

1273
01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 1: and my parents and my mom was like, I don't know,

1274
01:05:56,920 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 1: it just made so much sense and it was totally

1275
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:01,959
Speaker 1: different with her from what her parents had done their

1276
01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 1: six children. And that was that I saw that. I

1277
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:08,800
Speaker 1: saw She's like she found a book. It lit a fire.

1278
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 1: You know, she didn't. She said she felt like the

1279
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:14,040
Speaker 1: only person in the world who had ever had a baby.

1280
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:16,360
Speaker 1: She was an actress in New York. None of her

1281
01:06:16,360 --> 01:06:19,600
Speaker 1: friends kids, right, So I I took a cue from

1282
01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:22,280
Speaker 1: my mom, I think, and just following following my instinct,

1283
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:24,920
Speaker 1: learning more about it, and then ultimately just letting it go.

1284
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:27,920
Speaker 1: And you know, reading your baby and getting to know

1285
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:30,760
Speaker 1: your baby and trusting that you know what's best for him.

1286
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:34,160
Speaker 1: And and sometimes I was on the floor hysterically crying,

1287
01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:36,600
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, that's the reality of it, no

1288
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:40,080
Speaker 1: matter what you choose, whichever ways, And just because you

1289
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:41,960
Speaker 1: choose something one day doesn't mean you can't change your

1290
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:44,600
Speaker 1: mind another day. Also, by the way, at some point

1291
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:46,320
Speaker 1: you're all going to be crying on the floor, and

1292
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:47,800
Speaker 1: at some point you're all going to be laughing your

1293
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:50,960
Speaker 1: grasses off. And that's just seems to be motherhood. It is.

1294
01:06:51,080 --> 01:06:53,720
Speaker 1: And whether it's a biological child or an adopted child,

1295
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 1: or you know, a grandchild or whatever, it's that same dynamic.

1296
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:01,760
Speaker 1: You have to just render into that powerlessness. I think

1297
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:04,560
Speaker 1: I was actually just away without me and we had

1298
01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:07,160
Speaker 1: a nap in the bed with us for fun, and

1299
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 1: I felt like I couldn't really like get into a

1300
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:14,720
Speaker 1: comfortable position, honestly, Like I was like, what about the blankets.

1301
01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:16,480
Speaker 1: I know we've already talked about this, but is that

1302
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:18,960
Speaker 1: just something in time that you sort of figure out

1303
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:22,240
Speaker 1: the best way position wise to sleep with your baby

1304
01:07:22,240 --> 01:07:23,680
Speaker 1: in the bed or was there something that you know

1305
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:27,080
Speaker 1: works every time that's written in a book. Um, well,

1306
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:30,080
Speaker 1: you know, I will refer you back to the Dr

1307
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:33,400
Speaker 1: James McKenna guidelines for Safeco sleeping because he gives good

1308
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:36,160
Speaker 1: guidelines in general for everybody, but um and to avoid

1309
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:38,960
Speaker 1: sids and all of that. But I think what I

1310
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:41,760
Speaker 1: tell my patients to, especially if they're dealing with insomnia

1311
01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:44,480
Speaker 1: and the new baby, is find whatever is comfortable for

1312
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:47,280
Speaker 1: you first, exclusive of the baby. I personally, I am

1313
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:49,520
Speaker 1: a side sleeper. I've always left on my left side.

1314
01:07:49,560 --> 01:07:51,360
Speaker 1: That's how I sleep, Except my mom says when I

1315
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:54,880
Speaker 1: was a baby, I slept on my tummy. Um, I

1316
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:59,160
Speaker 1: you know, find your pillow, blanket, combo on the mattress

1317
01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:01,480
Speaker 1: and then figure out how baby can work around that

1318
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:04,160
Speaker 1: in a safe way, so that for example, with me,

1319
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:06,000
Speaker 1: I would tuck the blanket under my legs so it

1320
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:08,400
Speaker 1: wasn't anywhere near baby um. And it also has to

1321
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:10,840
Speaker 1: be a firm mattress. We can't be dealing with a

1322
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:14,040
Speaker 1: mushy mattress here or a big cushy mattress cover those

1323
01:08:14,120 --> 01:08:16,639
Speaker 1: those don't fit the safe sleeping guidelines. So we had

1324
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:19,520
Speaker 1: a super firm mattress, which is what we liked anyway.

1325
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:22,320
Speaker 1: So find where your comfortable spot is and then if

1326
01:08:22,360 --> 01:08:24,799
Speaker 1: that's it kind of is easiest on the side. Because

1327
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:27,559
Speaker 1: this is all keeping in mind that I learned how

1328
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:30,360
Speaker 1: to nurse on my side very early once the baby.

1329
01:08:30,360 --> 01:08:33,200
Speaker 1: I think you taught me on my side. Remember, came

1330
01:08:33,280 --> 01:08:38,360
Speaker 1: over to do a postpartum um tune up acupuncture session

1331
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:41,360
Speaker 1: and she was like, oh, you could just lay right

1332
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:43,320
Speaker 1: here and put the baby right here. And I was like,

1333
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:46,280
Speaker 1: you can lay down and nurse. I only thought in

1334
01:08:46,320 --> 01:08:47,760
Speaker 1: the hospital, I had only learned that there was a

1335
01:08:47,760 --> 01:08:51,160
Speaker 1: football hold or the cradle hold right you could do.

1336
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:54,479
Speaker 1: So you would be sleeping on the side. You get

1337
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:56,280
Speaker 1: comfortable and figure out how the baby works into that.

1338
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:59,200
Speaker 1: Because you're sleeping well and comfortably, so is the baby

1339
01:08:59,400 --> 01:09:02,120
Speaker 1: right And basically lined up baby nose to nipple or

1340
01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:04,920
Speaker 1: he was a little bit lower um, and that was

1341
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:07,720
Speaker 1: what was comfortable for me. Babies are very resilient. They

1342
01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:10,240
Speaker 1: will pretty much sleep anywhere, and so the advantage of

1343
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:12,479
Speaker 1: bed sharing was that, you know, we did travel to

1344
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:14,439
Speaker 1: see family, or we went on vacation, or we were

1345
01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:16,600
Speaker 1: in a hotel or what would and it would just

1346
01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:18,840
Speaker 1: the baby would just sleep where we slept, you know.

1347
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:21,439
Speaker 1: And and this whole idea of a lot of people

1348
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:23,000
Speaker 1: think of family bed means you go to bed when

1349
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:25,640
Speaker 1: the kid goes to bed. No, you know, when they

1350
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:28,360
Speaker 1: were really little, bedtime was six o'clock. Sure, you would

1351
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:30,000
Speaker 1: put the big kid down to six o'clock and then

1352
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:32,080
Speaker 1: I would like rush to do laundry and make dinner

1353
01:09:32,120 --> 01:09:35,439
Speaker 1: and all of that stuff. The dirty secret of parenting

1354
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:37,840
Speaker 1: is that that window narrows, you know, and then you

1355
01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:40,920
Speaker 1: end up with so much night hanno. Right now he

1356
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:43,559
Speaker 1: goes to sleep at seven, and I'm really my seven

1357
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:47,360
Speaker 1: to ten windows like huge for me. Atually it's like

1358
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:50,000
Speaker 1: you know, when I see my husband and like when

1359
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:53,880
Speaker 1: I have a five glass of wine whatever. Well, the

1360
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:56,720
Speaker 1: other thing is you get creative with where you are

1361
01:09:56,760 --> 01:09:59,400
Speaker 1: intimate with your partner, you know, I mean it's not

1362
01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:01,360
Speaker 1: list have to talk to other people, you know, you

1363
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 1: have to, especially when you have the second kid, and

1364
01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:06,599
Speaker 1: after the second kid comes, you know, it's super important

1365
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:08,640
Speaker 1: not to lose that intimacy in that one at one

1366
01:10:08,720 --> 01:10:11,880
Speaker 1: time date night became crucial. This has been so eye

1367
01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:15,960
Speaker 1: opening and so wonderful, and you are I'm just so

1368
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:18,320
Speaker 1: happy to be sitting with you in my crib on

1369
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 1: my couch. UM, we both fitt're just the best. And

1370
01:10:23,160 --> 01:10:26,360
Speaker 1: thank you so much for all of your wise words

1371
01:10:26,479 --> 01:10:31,040
Speaker 1: and advice and personal experience. UM, you really appreciate it.

1372
01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:35,080
Speaker 1: Thank you, thanks so much for listening to Katie's crib.

1373
01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:38,120
Speaker 1: Don't forget to subscribe and tell your friends, tell your

1374
01:10:38,120 --> 01:10:41,559
Speaker 1: mom's friends, tell your mom's mom, mom's friends. You get it.

1375
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:43,560
Speaker 1: Do