WEBVTT - The Most Expensive Burger In The World 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.400 Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:15.360 Forward Thinking. Hey there, everyone, and welcome to Forward Thinking, 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:17.880 the podcast that looks at the future and says, eat beef, 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:19.840 feed beef. It's a mighty good food. It's a great 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:23.200 a meal. When I'm in the mood, I'm Jonathan Strickling, 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:27.000 I'm learning both. I'm Joe McCormick. And that was the 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:30.000 Reverend Hoord need coming up next. No, we wanted to 0:00:30.040 --> 0:00:34.120 talk about the future of protein, right the idea, this 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:37.960 idea of protein and the various sources that we depend 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:43.360 upon for protein, everything from beef to to park to chicken, 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:46.919 to plant protein to well, I don't want to spoil it, 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:50.680 we'll get there, but uh, I wanted to talk about 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:54.200 how the way we get protein can make a huge 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:57.400 impact on the world around us. Right. Well, well, why 0:00:57.560 --> 0:00:59.200 why are we talking about this in the first place? 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:02.760 I mean, if we've got perfectly good, four legged sources 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:05.640 of food running around, why would we want anything else. Well, 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:08.640 one of the reasons is because those perfectly good, four 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:13.360 legged sources of food put a pretty hefty toll on 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:16.080 the environment, particularly when we're needing to produce it in 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:19.800 the the amounts that we we require, and particularly if 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:23.000 we are talking about meat of the beef variety. Yeah, 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:25.120 that one and that one is the worst of the 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:28.119 worst when it comes to environmental impact. And by environmental 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:32.839 impact we mean everything from clearing enough ground for for grazing, 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:36.440 which you know, as our demand for meat increases, obviously 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:40.560 the demand for land for cattle increases. Uh. That can 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:45.240 impact everything from rainforce to other delicate ecosystems, and uh 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:48.840 we could end up losing lots of other valuable resources 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:52.080 in the process and causing other issues. Then you've got 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:55.080 things like greenhouse gas emissions, which particularly with beef, are 0:01:55.200 --> 0:02:00.440 a real problem, things like methane. Cows produced lot of it, 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:04.760 But it's not just emissions directly from the cows. When 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:08.840 you produce the process of meat, right, there's a huge 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:12.200 backstory to that meat and all of the different things 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:15.240 that have had to happen to make that meat available 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:18.560 to you add up over time, right, and uh, you know, 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:21.160 first of all, I want to say that the amount 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:23.280 of meat that we are eating is on the rise. 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:26.240 The world's total meat supply as of ninety one was 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:28.560 like seventy one million tons. As of two thousand and 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:34.200 seven it was more like two four million tons. Yeah, yeah, 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:37.320 it you know, doubled over that period. But in the 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:40.840 developing world it actually rose twice as fast um, which 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:44.640 which basically just means that as people come into better 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:48.359 economic situation situations, they consume more meat. Yeah, there is 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:52.560 a correlation between your financial status and the amount of 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:57.359 meat you typically consume. You being societies out there, that's 0:02:57.520 --> 0:02:59.600 that's right, because you don't actually eat meat, Dad, don't. 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:01.720 I don't eat mammals. I I do eat fish and 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:04.119 foul but I do not eat mammals. It is not 0:03:04.760 --> 0:03:08.520 It has nothing to do with an ethical situation in 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:11.000 my case, although there are plenty of people out there 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:15.399 who make their decisions based on their own personal beliefs 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:18.280 and ethics, and I have nothing against that. But in 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:21.200 my case, it's because my wife had a bad experience 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:24.800 with food poisoning in college, and due to that, she 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:31.000 associates meat with feeling not well, feeling sick, and so 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:34.200 she just she swore it off and she hasn't really 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:37.280 had any sense then, and so when I was dating her, 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:39.080 I started to phase it out of my own diet, 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:42.040 and in the process that means that over the last 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:48.800 eighteen years or so, I've maybe had meat maybe five times, so, 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:51.560 uh meat from the sense in the sitis of mammals. 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:55.040 There there are other types of animals. I will hunt 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:58.440 down and tackle and chew on. Ostrich, by the way, 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:02.080 delicious and is delicious. I think most things are delicious. 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:04.560 You know, the entire doesn't have a face, doesn't have 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:07.240 a mother kind of scale his I'm like, I'm really sorry, 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:10.680 but adorable creatures are pretty tasty, and I can't really 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:14.360 you know, yeah, we we we have to guard our 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:18.600 our furry friends. Whenever Lauren comes to the office. That's 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:23.240 not true. That's not true. It's true she does eat puppies. No, no, 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:30.680 that's not only only rabbits. Okay, funny, but fuzzy bunny rabbits. Hey, 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:34.480 we cannot, we cannot make jokes about eating kittens. Were 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:39.040 on the internet. Okay, that's true, Lauren would we will 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:43.000 be digitally lynched. But I do, actually, I do actually 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:46.960 limit my meat intake for some of these environmental reasons. Right, 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:50.520 and we've mentioned a couple of greenhouse gases and rainforest 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:52.640 but it goes well beyond that too, right, I mean, 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:56.359 we're talking about think how much of the world's grains 0:04:56.480 --> 0:05:00.080 are dedicated to feeding the cattle that we depend the 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:03.640 pond for for our beef. Right right, The number that 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:05.880 I've seen is that it takes about eight pounds of 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:10.000 feed to create one pound of beef. That's a lot 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:13.400 of resources to create that meat that could be used 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:19.719 for other things, uh people exactly. And Uh. Then there's 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:24.120 also how much water is necessary not only to water 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:27.200 the cow, like so the cow has enough water to live, 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:30.839 but from everything else that's involved in the meat industry, 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:33.839 from growing that grain in the first place, to all 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:38.200 the different production uh stages of meat. This is this 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:42.040 requires a lot of energy, resources, stuff that we could 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:45.520 be using for other things, and it's truly unsustainable, right. 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:48.080 Um that that that world consumption of meat is expected 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:53.159 to double again by and these environmental issues are not small. 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:56.000 One study in two thousand seven by the National Institute 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:59.440 of Livestock and Grassland Science in Japan estimated that for 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:03.680 every kilogram or two point two pounds of beef, it's 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:06.919 it's responsible for the equivalent amount of carbon dioxide emitted 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:11.279 by the average European car going two fifty kilometers or 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:16.240 what's that like a hundred and that's that's a significant, huge, 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:18.160 it's it's it's it's enough energy to to burn a 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:22.000 hundred light bulb for twenty days, um and and when 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:23.919 you when you get into the kind of numbers that 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:26.680 we're looking at right as as you know, one of 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:30.400 the things we want to try and solve, obviously, I 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:33.320 would imagine most people would want to solve is a 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:36.839 problem like world poverty. I mean, that's a huge, huge problem, 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:39.480 and obviously we don't want people living in poverty. It's 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:44.839 a terrible thing. But as people do get more more 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:47.960 more affluent than they do tend to consume more meat. 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:51.880 So if we were able to find some environmentally friendly 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:54.520 way to produce that meat, and we'll talk more about 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:56.800 that in a little bit, but let's assume that we 0:06:56.880 --> 0:07:00.280 could find an environmentally friendly way that that at east 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:03.159 had a much lower impact upon the environment than the 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:07.080 conventional method of growing beef. A lot of the concerns 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:09.040 I've read, or a lot of the criticisms I've read, 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:12.240 are not that it wouldn't uh, it wouldn't have a 0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:15.160 positive impact on the environment. That part seems to be 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:17.760 pretty much cut and dry, that this would be good 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:20.040 news for the environment, The problem is that it would 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:24.840 not actually go to necessarily combating world hunger, at least 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:27.400 not directly. And the reason for that would be because 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:30.840 the issue of access to meet It's not access, it's 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:35.080 the price, right, It's a poverty problem. It's not just 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:38.640 an access problem. Because, by by a lot of estimations, 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:41.960 we produce enough food in the world right now to 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:47.560 feed every for two thousand calorie a day diet. We 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:51.560 have enough to handle everybody, but not everyone has access 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:54.960 to that food, not because of the the actual access problem, 0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:59.320 but because of the financial problem. So the while, while 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:01.160 we're going to be talking in a little bit about 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:04.840 some alternate ways of getting at beef besides raising an 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:09.080 animal and slaughtering it, that doesn't necessarily mean that suddenly 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:12.120 we've solved the world hunger problem. That's a much more 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:15.160 complex issue. Although once we can free up more of 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:18.360 that land um to to to go to production of 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:21.800 a more sustainable food source, I think that that would 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:25.239 go that could help it all Again, it all depends 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:29.560 upon how we dispense with that. Sure, So if we're 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:31.960 talking about the future, I think we need to talk 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:37.200 about alternatives because you do have this issue, this lingering 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:40.920 issue that it's hard to overcome. And the issue is 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:44.360 people want to eat meat. They just want it, and 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:47.400 it's going to be hard to just tell them no, 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:51.880 you need to eat beans and grains and not eat me. Right, Well, 0:08:51.880 --> 0:08:55.400 it's it's tasting. It's always been a status symbol. I think, yeah, culturally, 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:57.959 So is there a way we can come up with 0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:00.640 something that will at the same time, SAT spied this 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:06.679 need people have without causing the same problems that meat does, Right, 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:09.960 are there are there real alternatives? Well, you know, for 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:13.199 a long time at least people who absolutely love eating 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:16.400 meat would have said no that the like, for example, 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:20.280 plant proteins, plant proteins. We can get protein from plants. 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:22.360 There are certain plants that produce the proteins that are 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:25.880 necessary for us that you could switch to those and 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:28.760 receive a lot of the benefits you would receive from 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:31.960 eating various types of meat that they do contain slightly 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:35.160 different combinations of proteins and slightly different fats, and it's 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:38.240 it's very um. There are a lot of questions in 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:41.520 the nutrition industry about whether you know whether one kind 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:44.640 of protein whether is more complete than another, or whether 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:47.200 a certain kind of fat is healthier than another. In 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:49.480 other words, like none of the choices that we're about 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:52.280 to talk about are necessarily like you should like one 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:55.400 one to one replacement, right right There might be combinations 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:57.600 of diet that would be necessary for you to have 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:01.440 a healthy adult diet that is going to provide you 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:05.400 all the nutrients and proteins that you need. Uh that 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:08.199 that it also is not going to have any detrimental 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:10.320 health effects. But you know, in the past, we would 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:14.920 say things like, uh soy based meat replacement things that 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:19.640 soy burgers or tofu or uh tempei which is part 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:24.480 of a that's made from fermented soy. Tofu is unfermented soy. 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:29.040 But then there's a big controversy about the health benefits 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:31.800 and and and drawbacks of soy right now, I mean 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:34.280 right we talked in our last episode about GMOs, and 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:37.880 if you thought that that was a big, big fighting issue, 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:41.680 then you have not read the forums. GMO can be 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:46.960 considered a kerfuffle compared to the chaotic arguments that happened 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:50.320 within the soy community and the people who are absolutely 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:52.920 for the use of soy and those who say that 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:54.760 it is the most poisonous thing you could put in 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:58.520 your body. Uh. Really, the science is kind of still 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:03.640 developing on this. There are conflicting reports from everything from 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:06.880 the way it soy can impact your ability to absorb 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:11.400 minerals to whether it's a carcinogen or it prevents cancer. 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:14.040 Right right, Well, okay, So the thing with soys that 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:19.440 it contains isoflavorans um, which which are that that sounds delicious. 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:24.160 That's no flavor savor its isoflavon that sounds like a 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:29.439 delicious frozen treat. That it's um. They're chemically similar to estrogen's. 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:32.120 So I'm not sure what cand of ice creamstand you've 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:34.679 been going to, but I don't I don't think it's 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:38.840 quite the same thing. Um to two major types, and 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.800 in particular found in soy, um can can act like 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:45.599 estrogen in the body, which means that they find estrogen receptors, 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:50.800 which can spur estrogen receptor positive tumor growth. Can sometimes 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:53.400 in some studies. I mean, you know, it's it's any 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:57.199 time that you're talking about nutrition, um, you're you're you're 0:11:57.240 --> 0:12:01.360 talking about individuals, all of whom have a different a 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:05.360 different genetic makeup, a different history, a different environment. Um, 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:08.440 they're eating other things differently. You know, no, no one 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:11.120 in any of these studies is is being constricted to 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:13.360 precisely the same diet. So what you're saying is there 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:16.520 are a lot of variables, and there are other studies 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:18.880 that have shown that these same sort of elements can 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:23.480 actually have a limiting factor on tumor growth. So it's 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.280 it's there's conflicting information within the science itself. And it 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.760 may very well be that it's either a duration thing, 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:33.160 like it's how how long you have been consuming this 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:37.040 particular stuff, whether or not it has this initial boost 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:40.360 to like and usually it's for people who are already 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:44.040 already undergoing cancer treatments that are really at a high 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:47.880 risk here. But there's a possibility that at first there's 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:50.840 a negative impact and then over time there's a positive impact. 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:53.080 There's a possibility that it's an amount thing, but we 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:55.959 don't really know. The problem is that there are people 0:12:56.120 --> 0:12:58.920 on either side of the argument who have taken very 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:02.720 concrete stance is on this and uh, and so there's 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:05.400 not a lot of dialogue in the middle. It's a 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:09.679 lot of of you know, firm quote unquote facts on 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:13.320 either side. The problem is the facts don't contradict one 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:17.440 another in some cases. Okay, so I understand how things 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:22.400 like tofu and tempe and satan which which in this 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:26.080 case satan is which is satan. Okay, so we're talking 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:29.719 about protein made from wheat. It's essentially gluten in that case. Right, 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:34.160 Things like this can be a one can be a 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:36.280 good or maybe bad, we don't know, can at least 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.680 be some kind of nutritional substitute for meat. But you 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:42.959 wanted to actual like, well, I'm asking, I mean, how 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:47.280 close have we gotten to really replacing meat? I mean 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:52.480 creating a plant based product that actually has the ability 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:55.679 to trick them out into so not just something that 0:13:55.720 --> 0:13:57.720 would provide protein, but something that would give you the 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.320 same experience as if you were eating actual meat. That's 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:03.400 what you're asking, right, Well, there are several companies that 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:06.000 have been working on this, using plant proteins in various 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:10.160 approaches to create fibers to create a kind of meat 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:13.800 substitute that's supposed to mimic meat so closely that people 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:17.080 who are meat eaters have said, you know, this is this. 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:20.600 It tastes meat, It has that mouth feel of meat. 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.360 It sounds I hate using the phrase mouth feel, but 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:29.520 that's the way everyone. Well, the mouth feel of meat, 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:31.360 so you know how it feels when you take a 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:33.960 big old bite of a juicy burger. A lot of 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:37.080 it's part of what the eating experience is, Yes, it 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:40.440 is it is. There's that that, the texture, the firmness, 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:43.120 all of these things play a factor in what we 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:47.000 consider the ideal experience for eating a particular type of food. 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:49.000 Whatever that food might be. It doesn't have to be meat. 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:51.120 It could be whatever, right And for me personally, a 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:54.560 lot of these plant based proteins wake me out the 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:56.880 closer that they tried to get to meet, because it's 0:14:56.880 --> 0:15:00.760 it's kind of uncanny valley of meat where almost but 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:03.400 not quite like whatever it is you're trying, and it's 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:05.880 kind of terrifying. Like any any time that chicken has 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:07.760 it has an apostrophe in it, I don't really want 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:09.480 anything to do with it. I would much rather just 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:12.200 eate an actually, like I don't. I don't care for 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:14.840 I don't care for a lot of veggie dogs, for example, 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:18.160 because they just don't really remind me at all of 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:20.400 what hot dogs tasted like. And it's been a long 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:23.680 time since I've had one, so but even then I'll 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:26.640 take a bite like, yes, this is not not it. 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:29.120 I had enough hot dogs back when I Hate meet 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:31.200 to know that this is not the right taste and 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:34.160 not the right texture. But there are companies out there 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:37.800 that have been using plant proteins to create really really 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:42.000 uh compelling products that really, apparently according to people who 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:44.920 eat meat, taste and feel like meat, and those companies 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:49.440 are well one of those. Beyond Meat Beyond Me, Yeah, 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:52.800 it's um. It was the sequel to Son of Meat, 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:57.400 which of course was was the lesser known uh successor 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:00.920 to the great movie or mean a Me tour that 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:05.000 was way downline. I'm talking about meat, just meat, meat, 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:07.520 Son of Meat. Beyond Meat Now. Beyond Meat is a 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:10.920 company that was founded by Ethan Brown. And Ethan Brown 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:15.440 grew up on essentially like a dairy production farm and 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:18.920 went into the clean energy sector before he decided he 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:23.080 wanted to find a way to create vegan friendly option 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:26.680 of using plant proteins in a way that that mimicked 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:30.960 meat so that it would be indistinguishable. And so he 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:33.720 joined up with some researchers and they started working on 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:36.000 this company. They got some funding from some big names. 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:38.320 The founders of Twitter ended up sinking quite a bit 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:40.640 of money in this, not sinking investing money into it, 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:44.320 because it actually has been very successful and according to 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:47.080 the reviews I've read that the products that they create 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:50.880 are they really do taste and feel like meat, so 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:53.720 it seems to have a very positive response. Other ones, 0:16:54.520 --> 0:16:56.440 the other companies that also are doing the same thing 0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:59.160 include Match, which is a company that came out of 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:03.760 the University of ill Noi at Urbana Champagne UM and Uh. 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:07.280 They mostly supply areas in the Midwest. It's you can 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:10.240 also apparently order their stuff online. Uh. And then there's 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:13.000 another one called Plenty p L E n t I, 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:15.600 which is all of the Netherlands. And all three of 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:18.280 these companies again and again when I was doing research, 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:20.919 were the ones that were mentioned as the companies that 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:24.480 were making products that really did feel like a true 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.479 meat substitute, not just a different way to get your protein. 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:30.760 That's that mimics the shape of other things. Like we've 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:34.040 seen veggie burgers everywhere, right, but there's you know, often 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:36.560 a veggie burger can be really tasty, but it's not 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:38.560 something like you don't bite into and think, oh yeah, 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:40.440 that tastes like hamburger to me. It's just like, this 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:42.320 is a different experience, but I like it. It's just 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:46.160 not there's a burger place here in Atlanta that I 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:50.920 think just has an absolutely delicious veggie keenoa burger. But 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:53.640 I like about it that it's like it's really good 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:56.840 because it doesn't taste like it's trying to be fake beef. 0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:02.399 It's just of the fake all of the non meat 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:04.840 protein products that I like. I I you know, I 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:08.440 like lentils and I and I and I like tofu. Actually, 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:10.399 I mean mostly when it's deep fried. But isn't that 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:13.760 true of everything? Um? So, you know, chicken fried tofu 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:17.919 is a delicious, delicious thing. It is, um. But so okay, 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:21.720 So if we're if we're looking for something that, let's 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:24.080 say that you don't believe in this whole plant eating 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:27.320 plants things. Right, Let's say that you have just decided 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:30.960 that it's while while close is good, it's not good enough. 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:34.359 You have got to have a beef burger. Is there 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:38.200 any way of making a beef burger or making any 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:41.040 kind of meat, any sort of beef product or or 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:42.920 meat product in general. Is there any way of doing 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:48.399 that that doesn't have this hugely negative environmental impact. Oh yes, 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:53.919 Joe Phillis and you sinister son of a whatever. Go 0:18:55.800 --> 0:19:01.879 So this year, uh in London, at an ex in August, 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:06.879 a Dutch researcher named Mark Post from the University of 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:13.359 must riaked cooked up a burger patty. All right, you 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:18.639 do without killing a cow? That was made without killing 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:21.240 a cow. Wait are you just are you telling me 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:24.480 there's just like a cow wandering around the Netherlands that's 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:28.320 missing like a hamburger sized hole in its side. Um no, No, 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:30.800 it is not a cow that you have just cut 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:33.760 a burger out of. Ok this is what's called in 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:38.200 vitro meat, all right, So what does that mean in vitro, Well, 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:41.760 it comes from in glass. It's the idea of meat 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:45.440 produced in a lab. So it's not just taken from 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:48.920 a cow, but it is actually grown from a sort 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:51.560 of cow culture. Okay, So what they did was they 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:55.800 took essentially a biopsy of a cow. Yeah. So all 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:59.479 organisms have these things called stem cells, and these are 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:04.800 or pluripotent cells that can mature into different types of 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:07.960 body cells. So you have stem cells that can make 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:10.680 the cells that occur in a muscle, and of course 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:12.840 the muscle is the part of the cow that you 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:17.120 want to eat for beef. So an interesting thing that 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:21.719 this researcher decided to try was to take a biopsy 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:24.919 from living cow without killing the cow, put it in 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:27.600 a culture in the laboratory UM, and get the stem 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:32.239 cells to grow tiny strips of beef um. And of 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:37.160 course it was a painstaking process that took a long 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:41.280 time and many many cultures UM. But eventually what he 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:44.960 did was he grew enough tiny strips of beef to 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:50.000 mash them all together with some fat cells and make 0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:54.640 a burger, a real beef burger. Gosh, that's kind of crazy. 0:20:54.720 --> 0:21:01.400 So wait, uh, two questions. How much did this cost? Uh? 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:05.400 The first one costs more than three thousand dollars to make? 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:09.439 Was it supersized? It's a very expensive burger. But of 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:13.440 course it's that expensive because it's never been done before. UM, 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:19.439 and it's actually been estimated. I've got this interesting paper here. UH. 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:23.880 It's called Environmental Impacts of Cultured Meat Production, and it 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:29.080 was a scientific paper from two thousand eleven that uh 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:33.639 predicted or it offered comparisons of the predictions of the 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:39.399 eventual cost of producing lab cultured beef with that of 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:45.959 conventionally grown meat right, and the differences are pretty huge, like, 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:50.080 for example, when it compared uh their estimations for cultured 0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:56.080 meat to European raised beef. Uh so their findings where 0:21:56.240 --> 0:21:59.560 there was a seven to forty five percent lower energy use, 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:04.360 uh seventy eight to nine six percent lower greenhouse gas emissions, 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:09.480 percent less land use, and eighty two to ninety six 0:22:09.560 --> 0:22:13.600 percent less water use. So the demand on resources would 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:16.879 be way lower if we went to some sort of 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:19.199 in vitro be assuming we could scale it up to 0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:23.280 a point where it made sense. Obviously, if it never 0:22:23.320 --> 0:22:25.439 made economic sense, that it would never happen because we 0:22:25.480 --> 0:22:27.879 just wouldn't be able to afford it. But this is 0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:33.000 a big thing because the problem with UM getting people 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:36.480 to change their diets is they don't want to write, well, 0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:39.280 I mean, beef is tasty, you know. Well that that 0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:41.240 also kind of leads me to my second question. Did 0:22:41.240 --> 0:22:44.399 either of you see any of the reaction to what 0:22:44.520 --> 0:22:48.000 it tasted like? No? I didn't. Yeah, I read some reviews. 0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:51.679 They were mixed. I mean, essentially I got the impression 0:22:51.720 --> 0:22:54.240 that this was not the kind of burger that you 0:22:54.240 --> 0:22:57.080 would be satisfied with if you paid top dollar forward 0:22:57.080 --> 0:23:03.200 in a restaurant, but it essentially tasted burger like. So 0:23:03.560 --> 0:23:06.520 I get the feeling. The general idea was we're getting there, 0:23:06.880 --> 0:23:09.680 but this was this was enough like a burger. I 0:23:09.680 --> 0:23:14.080 mean it did taste like beef. Um, it was getting there. 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:17.680 And well it didn't just taste like beef, it was beef. 0:23:18.080 --> 0:23:21.240 Again to reiterate, this isn't some weird synthetic thing. This 0:23:21.320 --> 0:23:24.119 is the same protein you'd be eating if you killed 0:23:24.119 --> 0:23:26.760 a cow and took it out. It's just made without 0:23:26.880 --> 0:23:29.480 killing a cow. Yeah. I find it really interesting that 0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:33.000 the initial reaction from most people I've talked to when 0:23:33.040 --> 0:23:36.320 it comes to this this concept is one of revulsion 0:23:36.760 --> 0:23:39.320