WEBVTT - Kathie Lee Gifford 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.480 Hello, this is Craig Ferguson letting you know that I 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:05.200 am hitting the road again with my Fancy Rascal Tour 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:08.680 this summer and beyond, starting next week on August seventeenth 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:12.639 and August eighteenth in Boulder, Colorado. For the full list 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:15.360 of dates, please go to my website, the Craig Ferguson 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:18.000 Show dot com slash Tour, where you can also buy 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:23.319 tickets or not. See you out there or not. My 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:27.600 name is Craig Ferguson. This podcast is called Joy, It's 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:31.080 not Rocket science. I talk to people I like about 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:37.600 their pursuit of happiness. Here's Kathy Lee Gifford, an American legend. 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:48.440 She loves Jesus' TV country music Enjoy. I'm so happy. 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:51.040 I went to bed last with the biggest smile my firs, 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:53.760 I said, I said, I get to see my my Howard. 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:58.160 Yeah, Craig tomorrow. Yeah we ready to go. Yeah, Yeah, 0:00:58.200 --> 0:00:59.960 we will just go. Can I be a little more, 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:04.319 a little louder in here, because I'm going it was 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:06.160 a little more of himself. I want a little more 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:07.839 of you too. Yeah. 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:10.480 I like to you know, only you did it just 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:14.480 because of that slot. So this is called joy. 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:15.319 It's called joy. 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:17.960 Lord, please bless this time together with Craig can help 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:19.960 us not to be too naughty and Jesus name man. 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:24.080 Okay, I don't look, I have not one to scoff 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:28.520 about prayer. No, no, I am not I am not 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:30.960 a I wouldn't describe myself as a person of faith, 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:33.400 but I am a person of doubt, which is on 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:34.840 the way to faith. Right. 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:37.600 Yes, and some people's journeys are quite long. 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:40.920 Yeah, I think I take it a while. But I 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:44.640 feel like that prayer you sent up there about Lord 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:47.000 help us not be naughty, I think. 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:47.920 That in a hurtful way. 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:48.200 Yeah. 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:50.880 I just think I'd love to be naughty with you 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:52.720 anytime you're ready and you get rid of that you 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:55.680 know woman that why is she still there? 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:59.920 Wait? Wait, you know sometimes I think she asked us 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:04.200 of the same question. So listen. I'm's a type of 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:06.480 woman you want. 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:09.000 To hate because she's so beautiful, she's so smart, she's 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:13.320 so everything, and then you meet her and she's you. 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:13.919 You love her. 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:16.320 You're talking about my wife, no, the other one you have. 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:20.760 But listen, I know, I know that you're very private, 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:23.080 and I respect and listen, you know what let let 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:25.240 me just say at the start of this, because because 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:29.120 this this is an unusual set of conversations for me, Yes, 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:32.000 that we are going to talk about joy and we 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:33.400 are going to talk about that, and I wanted to 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:36.680 talk to you about it because you and I have 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:41.639 a friendship, yes, which I love you, I adore you, 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:44.440 and I don't agree with you in a lot of things, 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:47.720 and I think that the most important things. Yeah, I 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:51.040 think that's true. But but I think that I see 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:55.400 so much of like, people can't be friends unless they 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:56.320 all think along. 0:02:56.480 --> 0:02:58.040 Yeah, the cancel the cancel things. 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:02.639 Yeah, that seems a little that's stupid. Yeah, we can 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:03.639 learn from. 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:06.280 Everybody we sit down and have a conversation with. Why 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:08.960 would we want to block off? First of all, it's 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:12.800 the antithesis of my faith, which is I don't say 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:15.480 that my Christian faith because I'm I was born to 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:19.000 a Jewish father and a shicks some mother, you know, 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:21.320 which is a gentile mother, and we didn't grow up 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:23.959 with any organized religion in my life at all until 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:28.320 all of us came to an understanding of faith in 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:32.080 the person of Jesus, who in the in the Hebrew 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:36.080 is called Yeshua and all of my family did. And 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:39.080 so when they say, what do you believe, I said, 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:42.040 I'm I'm a follower of Jesus and even you and 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:43.880 I have conversations quite a bit when we were on 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:46.920 set for our movie Than He Knew, which is available 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:50.680 on Netflix now if you want to know. But but 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:53.480 you talked. I said, you said that to me, And 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:57.120 I've told this story on a couple of occasions because 0:03:57.560 --> 0:03:59.839 we had a break in shooting, as you always doing 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:02.640 the movie. Sure, and you said, and I can't do 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:05.840 you without doing you. But because I see how your 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:07.840 head I used to be in my head, I had 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:09.920 you down perfectly. So I won't do it today. I 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:10.520 will avoid it. 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:13.280 I can. I give you. It's really all right now. 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:17.840 Tell you because I just you know, I'm sitting across 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:18.600 from you, and it's been. 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:20.239 A couple of years and I've just been too long. 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:22.200 It's and they put you too far away from me. 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:23.760 I can't even reach you under the table. 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:27.440 I think, well, then somebody's reached me. I don't know you. 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:30.800 You got your channel change and stick down there. Something's happening. 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:36.880 Anyway. Yeah, you said basically to me, Kathy, why do 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:39.680 you love me? And Ricky meaning your vase. Right, we 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:42.480 were not great guys, is the way you said it. 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:44.719 And I thought, that's so not true. 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:46.160 Well, Ricky's a great guy. 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:46.520 You think that. 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:47.520 I think. 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:50.720 No, you continue to say, we don't believe like you, 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:53.960 We don't believe in your faith, we don't probably don't 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:56.159 vote the way you do. But why do you love 0:04:56.240 --> 0:05:00.120 us so much? Because you knew I did, And I said, well, 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:03.240 first of all, you're unbelievably lovable, and you're aging like 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:06.400 a fine wine that you no longer drink. But anyway, 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:09.760 you are created in the image of God, both you 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:14.279 and Ricky. Plus you're the funniest, smartest, dearest people. There's 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:16.479 so many good things to love about you. Why wouldn't 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:21.000 I love you to which here's the thing. Yeah, you said, 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:26.320 no person of faith has ever told us before that 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:29.720 they love us, And I said to you, well, then 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:31.120 you've never met one before. 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:33.479 Yeah, And I don't, to be fair, I don't know 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:36.320 about Ricky. I mean, he probably gets told people love 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:38.680 them all the time. But when I was, I mean, 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:41.560 we're going to do people of faith. That was what 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:44.120 that was about. He gets told he's what's not to 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:44.720 love about him? 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:49.080 Except maybe I can't think of something. 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:51.200 Right, but you know you love what your love. But 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:52.880 let but let me just say, let me let me 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:54.640 talk to you a little bit about joy. We will 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:57.720 talk to you about your about your faith and about Jesus. 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:01.280 That was it? All right? Good? So we're done with that. Now. 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:03.760 I want to talk to you a little bit about 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:06.800 joy because the reason why I wanted to do to 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:10.280 have discussions with people about it is because you, to me, 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:15.240 are an example of someone who has gone through particularly 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:18.800 recently with Frank and all that that You've gone through 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:21.239 a lot of stuff. And I saw you. I remember 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:24.440 seeing you. I think the Today Show wasn't long after 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:30.760 Frank had passed, and you had that kind of quite 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:34.640 speedy vibe of someone who was in grief and in shock, 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:39.200 which is but you also had something else, which is 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:42.920 I suppose is your faith. And you'll tell me. But 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:46.960 you are someone to me who seems to be an 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:52.360 adversity able to turn to a joy of some kind 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:56.200 or maybe it's wrong to say, but manufacture it in 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:59.120 yourself or procure or find it from somewhere. Would that 0:06:59.120 --> 0:06:59.640 be accurate? 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:03.159 No, I'm sure it seems like that to some people. 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:06.800 It was actually a week after Frank had passed. Now 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:09.080 I had found just for people who don't know the story, 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:12.200 and it's been almost eight years now since he passed. Wow, 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:16.480 he had been sick. He had a lot of CTE, 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:20.280 chronic traumatic and cephalop I can't say the last word, 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:26.360 and cephalopathy, which is brain damage concussion after concussion, after. 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:27.240 Going from the football. 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:29.840 It was a Sunday morning, a beautiful Sunday morning. It 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:35.480 was hod his birthday, August ninth, and I remember, it's 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:37.840 the things you remember are crazy. But this is why, 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:41.000 this is in answer to why I was the way 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:45.240 I was during this quite would have been traumatic experience 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:48.360 for somebody that didn't already cling to God the way 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:51.720 I have. For so many years, I've always said, you know, uh, 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:56.360 there's no bad time to find God, but the worst 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:59.680 times you're grateful you already cling to him. It just 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:03.440 being tighter at a time like that. And so I 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:07.000 heard him get on his scale. The man was one 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:10.960 week shy of eighty five, and he naked. He looked 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:13.560 from the back. The man was thirty. You know, he 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:18.360 worked out still, he exercised his brain. What was left 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:20.360 of it, We didn't know, because you don't know about 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:24.200 CTE until you do an autopsy, and we weren't going 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:25.680 to do that on him. Before he was gone. I 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:27.440 thought that would have been. 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:31.080 It's just not people froving on it. It might even 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:33.600 be legal in some states. I don't know, not anymore. 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:37.960 Eugenics. Baby, bye bye, you're breathing air and leaving a 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:42.800 carbon footprint. Bye bye. No more so anyway, No, he was. 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:46.280 He was an extraordinary man to the day that he 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:50.079 did pass. But I heard him get on his scale, 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:53.839 which he did every day, and he and it said 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:57.320 your weight is one hundred and seventy eight pounds, and 0:08:57.400 --> 0:08:59.680 I remember thinking, oh, it's going to be a good day. 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:03.560 Was his playing weight for all those years, and that 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:10.440 was his favorite weight. So he was extremely disciplined in 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:12.920 lots of week now he enjoyed life like crazy, and 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:15.480 God knows he made mistakes. Nobody knows that like I do. 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:18.840 But he was a good, good, solid man of a 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:22.680 different era, crab, a different generation. He grew up during 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:25.440 the Depression, ate dog food as a child and was 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:28.480 grateful to have it. His father was an itinerant oil worker. 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:32.280 I mean they lived I think I don't even remember 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:35.360 thirty different places while he was growing up, so he 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.240 never was able to put down roots anywhere. But the 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:41.640 one thing that could he could stand out at every 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:45.040 time he moved to a different place was his athleticism, 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:48.559 and so that came to be the thing. He was 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:51.760 a terrible student. Later when he got a scholarship to 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:55.760 USC to play football, he became their finest scholar athlete. 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:58.439 He was so grateful to have an education. 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:00.360 I was going to ask you about that one. Was 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:03.079 Frank a grateful man? Was he a joyful man? 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:05.839 You know, that's such a great question because you would 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:09.079 think he was grateful. And that's why we didn't bring 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:11.760 a class action suit once we got the results of 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:14.680 his brain scans. You know a lot of people who 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:18.680 had whose loved ones had worked in the NFL joined 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:21.200 this class action suit because the NFL knew about this. 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:25.000 They did and and and Frank was was He said, 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:27.400 no matter what you find out, Kathy, you know, when 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:29.880 I'm gone, I don't want to be a part of that. 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:32.200 I don't want our family to be He said, I 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:36.000 am so grateful for the life that I have had 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:39.960 that the NFL afforded me. He would have he was 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:42.520 when he wasn't playing for the Giants. He went back 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:47.160 to California and sold for fertilizer in Bakersfield. That's what 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:50.240 the NFL was at that time. Nobody was a full 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:52.800 time football player. They only played it till the you know, 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:56.000 for the season. Everybody else had jobs otherwere you know 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:57.760 a lot of them came back from World War Two 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:01.360 with half of their life shot up. You know, Connory 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:06.640 Connorley who was his best friend there and was the quarterback, 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:10.199 and they became dear, dear friends, and he had just 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:12.320 just come back from World War Two, so you know, 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:15.959 it's a different world. I'm twenty three years younger than 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:18.440 Frank was to the day, so I would hear the 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:22.200 stories he would tell, and I would have such respect 0:11:22.480 --> 0:11:25.920 and admiration for the for the the kind of human 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:28.600 beings that existed. Then we hear so much today about 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:32.760 the entitlement, about the cancel culture, all of that stuff 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:37.920 which just demeans and diminishes the human spirit. Everything Frank 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:40.920 talked to me about celebrated it. 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:44.199 Yeah, I want to talk to you a little bit 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:48.000 about the councel cultures thing, because I do have a 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:50.679 knee jerk reaction a little about it myself. But at 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:55.079 the same time, I think, you know, I look at 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:57.960 my you know, my oldest boy is twenty two, so 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:01.320 he's kind of in that in that that world, that world, 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:05.200 and and you you know, and I want to I 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:08.800 want to have an open mind about the youth, you know, 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:12.480 like you have an open mind about people who are 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:17.360 not Messianic, Jewish, Christian, which. 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:19.800 Is most of the world, right, which is I don't 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:21.600 want to cut off most of the world because they 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:22.480 don't agree with. 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:24.320 Me, right, And I don't want to. I don't want 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:28.520 to cut off the I'm not sure with cancel culture 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:32.760 if it's if it's really like that for most of them, 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:35.160 you know, I think for the kids, I mean when 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:37.480 I say them, I mean I'm talking about young people. 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:38.320 I think you call it. 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:41.640 Gen X or Z g Z. Now what do you 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:43.160 do now we've run out of that, We're going to 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:44.720 pick up the Greek alphabet. 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:48.040 I don't know. I think that My youngest boy, Liam 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:51.960 is twelve, so he's he's just coming into a generation. 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:54.000 I don't know what the generation is called, but I 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:55.080 think they're going to be different. 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:58.240 He's twelve, you know, what, can we just say he's twelve. 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:00.520 He's twelve and he's a boy. 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:01.719 Yeah. 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:05.599 He reminds me of Stewie and family guy. 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:08.360 Yeah. I don't think he would be he would be 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:11.000 insulted by that. I think he'd be proud. 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:12.800 He'd word is a badge of honor. I want to 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:14.079 be called dad, call me Snewie. 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:14.360 Yeah. 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:16.680 Although I think I'm a little like Peter Griffin as well, 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:18.360 which is a little I'm like that. 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:19.600 I'm Brian the Dog. 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:24.080 You're well, yeah, a little bit with the wine. 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:27.360 Hey, this is a this is a latte. I'm about 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:29.680 to graduate though, are you listen? 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:33.320 There's another thing that I admire about you. You can drink. 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:36.160 I can't drink. I know you can't. But have you 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:38.120 ever had a problem. Do you ever feel like. 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:40.520 Oh boy, yeah, times definitely of course. 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:42.679 Yeah. That makes me feel oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:44.920 Here's the thing. If Jesus is my model and we 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:50.000 go back to Yeshua Jesus, people have no idea because 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:53.679 they don't study rabbinically. The Western Christian world has no 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:57.960 idea of our roots. They don't I've had people even 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:01.120 say to me through the years, now, Jesus was Jesus 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:04.199 is Catholic, right, I'll go. Do you know what year 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:06.599 the Catholic Church came to be? I forget now, but 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:09.480 it's like five ninety a d or something like that. Yeah, 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:14.480 I said, Jesus had long since died, resurrected, ascended to heaven. 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:19.600 And no, he was not Catholic. He was a Jew, 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:23.440 a rabbinic. It was a rabbi, and he was a 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:24.880 Jew and a perfect Jew. 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:27.240 Was there a moment that kicked this off for you? 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:30.280 I remember it as I'm going to be seventy years 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:31.760 old this year. I can't even. 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.360 That's not true. Good do I need to know which 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:39.840 moisturizer you use, because you if only it was more 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:41.120 just moisturized. 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:44.800 You know what it's it's that's that's for our lunch 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:48.520 afterwards where you usually talk. Yeaheah, No I do. I'm 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:51.640 actually developing a skin line. And all of the botanicals 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:53.600 that are in the skin line come from the Bible. 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:54.440 What. 0:14:54.720 --> 0:15:00.920 Yes, Who was the greatest seductress of all time? No? 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:02.040 Even before that. 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:09.640 Cleopatra, Cleopatra, Cleopatra was used all these things that there 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:13.520 was no CVS or of you know, Lord Lord and Taylors, 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:14.040 you could go to. 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:18.960 Everything came from the earth, and so what never changes truths. 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:22.280 The scriptures are built on truth. So we started looking 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:25.080 at the Bible and the and the and the botanicals 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:27.720 that existed at the time. Some have have gone on. 0:15:28.000 --> 0:15:30.480 You really genuinely are telling me you have a skincare 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:33.720 line based on the reading of the Bible. Yes, I 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:36.360 am both appalled and delighted. 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:39.400 Well, if it were two thousand years ago for the 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:42.920 greatest aducters of all time, Cleopatra, why would it not 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:45.920 work for for me and for you? It's then the 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:48.520 beauty of it is. It's called Nila. It's not out yet. 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:51.640 I mean, we've been in trust uh tests, you know, 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:55.440 tiles for and my skin has never been better than 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:58.200 it's been in my entire life. You know, you do. 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:02.000 Well, I have to say, but listen what you say. 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:04.040 Tracked me talking about the skin, Caroline. I want to 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:06.160 talk to you about Yeah, that's not even that yet. 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:06.960 I want to talk about it. 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:09.160 No interest in talking about that. 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:14.560 Your epiphany, your moment, your your literal come to Jesus moment. 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:17.320 Okay, the beginning. This is not the moment I'm thinking of. 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:20.800 But I fell asleep. I was a little girl living 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:23.400 in Annapolis, Maryland. I looked up and it was fall, 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:28.120 and my daddy and I were raking leaves. And I 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:31.760 looked up and there was Jesus sitting on a cloud. 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:35.160 And you actually saw yes in my dream and your 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:36.240 dream in my dream. 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:37.960 And he looked down at me. 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:41.560 Jesus are growing up, growing up Jesus. 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:42.840 And he looked down at me and he smiled, and 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:43.760 I knew it was Jesus. 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:45.240 That was it, That was the dream. 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:48.760 Years later, now I'm twelve years old, I believe, and 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:52.440 I go to a movie, not unlike the new movie 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:55.800 Jesus Revolution, which is out right now. That's the time 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:57.840 period that I was growing up in the early in 0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:01.120 the seventies. I graduated in my teen seventy one. That 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:03.840 was when the Jesus Revolution was really starting and I 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:05.919 was already a part of it. But when I was 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:09.919 twelve before that, there was a movie called The Restless Ones, 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:12.800 first movie that the Billy Graham Organization ever put out, 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:14.399 and if you watch it today, it's one of the 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:17.760 most dreadful wrek you know, you just even my kids 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:19.000 looked at it, and they looked at it and they 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:22.000 looked at my mom. This is awful, I said at 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:27.440 the time, it wasn't. Billy Graham was so so criticized 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.800 for it. You can't make a movie the devil lives 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:33.879 in the movie theaters, the devil lives in the bass drum, 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:35.720 the devil lives in the nightclubs. 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:40.240 I can't argue that what always attracted me to all 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:40.879 of that stuff. 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:43.080 I know it, and left to your own devices, it 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:49.359 still would. But here's the thing. Billy Graham knew something 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:52.840 that something deeper because he didn't have a religion, he 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:56.040 had relationship with the living God. You know how anti 0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:56.840 religion I am. 0:17:57.040 --> 0:17:59.880 Yeah, That's why I'm kind of fascinated by because you're 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:06.000 your faith is unshakable, but you're it's almost like a 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:07.920 contempt for religion. 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:12.959 Not the contempt I have for religion is not that 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:16.000 people love their churches and love to go and hear 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:18.960 the word of God. All of that is wonderful. I 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:23.840 have contempt, just like Jesus did, for the leaders of 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:27.120 the church that do not feed the flock, that abuse 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:30.040 the privilege of power, that misuse it. So I'm talking 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:34.080 about organized religion that has gotten so big and so powerful, 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:37.280 not unlike our government that it thinks that it is 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:41.080 God instead of teaching the people, you know, to follow 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:43.919 their their their their good shepherd. They said, no, no, 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:44.920 you're our flock. 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:47.000 To me, it sounds like you're a little bit Did 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:52.159 you ever encounter the writings of the Desert Fathers? Have 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:56.160 you ever come across that? No Evagras of Pontis. 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:57.720 Or origin heard of all of this, but no. 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:05.760 Origin of Alexandria was as an early Christian theologian from 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:08.960 Alexandria in Egypt. I think it was like his father 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:12.880 was a Christian martyr. He was origin was I think 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:16.520 around two hundred AD, so pre church. 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:21.760 Well not really pre Catholic Church, yes, way pre Catholic, 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:24.040 but the original church with Jesus. 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:28.280 Yes, so he's pre Catholic Church. And and he he 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:31.439 got excommunicated five hundred years after he died. They got 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:35.080 very angry at him because he said God can exist 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:40.040 only in the mind. There can be no physical. 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:41.840 Manifestation. 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:45.920 Manifestation in the sense of which is not what you 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:52.840 want to hear if you're selling church. Cus, I guess 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:57.639 it's my accent basically means crap. Yeah, but I think 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:01.000 that I think that to me is it sounds to 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:05.520 me like you, you're Christianity for want of a batter word, 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:11.439 that you're following of Jesus has a very airly early 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:14.040 Christian feel about it, like first one hundred years after 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:14.880 after the. 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:18.080 Yes, that's exactly when when people who don't just just 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:20.639 it's not that they're ignorant people, they just don't know. 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:23.480 There's different kinds of ignorance in the world. There's I 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:27.040 just didn't know that, and then there's willful ignorance. And 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:31.560 I find so much so many Western Christians are are 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:35.520 ignorant about their early history, ignorant about what the Word 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:37.760 of God actually says, only because they've never been taught. 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:40.480 And that's what I get angry about, right, Craig, that 0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:44.600 that we we have people graduating from from seminaries all 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:46.359 over the world right now who don't even know that 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:51.320