1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: Welcome everyone to this edition of Amy and TJ. 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 2: It's Saturday, October twenty fifth, and I don't know if 3 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 2: you all had been following the story the way we 4 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,919 Speaker 2: have this week about that American chess grand master, twenty 5 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 2: nine year old Daniel Noraditsky, who passed away this week. 6 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 2: There is now an investigation underway about whether or not 7 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 2: a Russian player's comments could have contributed to his death. 8 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 2: And it's something that TJ and I have talked about 9 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 2: so much, the impact and the weight of words. Words matter, 10 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 2: what you say matters. 11 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 3: This is all. This kid was twenty nine. A lot 12 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 3: of people might not be familiar with him, but if 13 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 3: you are, and it's possible you are, it's because he 14 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 3: who a certain degree, is credited with making chess cool 15 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 3: for a lot of people. He's twenty nine years old, 16 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 3: young guy who was a child prodigy and became a 17 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 3: grand master at an early age eighteen. At eighteen years old, 18 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 3: he is a chest chess superstar, and just like other folks, 19 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 3: young folks coming up in I guess more traditional specialties 20 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 3: or expertise, he's using the Internet. He used social media 21 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 3: and he became a star. So when we saw the 22 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 3: headlines this week. They didn't say a cause of death. 23 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 3: But you're twenty nine years old and dead, we go, 24 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 3: what the hell happened? 25 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 2: What the hell happened? And so there is no official 26 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 2: cause of death as of this recording. But late this 27 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 2: week we did get this from police. They said the 28 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 2: death of American chess grandmaster Daniel Narroditsky may have been 29 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 2: the result of a drug overdose, and it is being 30 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 2: investigated as a possible suicide. They're also investigating it as 31 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 2: a sudden death at all. Possibilities are up there, but 32 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 2: they did make that specification, which is what a lot 33 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 2: of folks were already considering as a possible reason. Why, 34 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 2: especially given word that we're hearing from the International Chess 35 00:01:58,360 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 2: Federation about this investigation. 36 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 3: We didn't know, We weren't familiar enough. But there are 37 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 3: people in the industry, in the chess world who as 38 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,239 Speaker 3: soon as they heard that he had passed away the 39 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 3: age of twenty nine, they immediately robes speculated suicide, and 40 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 3: they immediately started pointing fingers at another chess grandmaster. 41 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: That's right. 42 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 2: So the International Chess Federation announced it is officially investigating 43 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 2: Russian Grandmaster Vladimir Kramnik. He's fifty years old, and they 44 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 2: say for comments he made surrounding the death of Nroditsky, 45 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 2: but they really get specific here in how they described this. 46 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 2: So the Federation's Ethics and Disciplinary Commission is investigating. So 47 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:45,639 Speaker 2: that's who is starting or at least creating this investigation. 48 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 2: But the Federation president said this, and I'm going to 49 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 2: quote him here. In recent times, public debate within the 50 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 2: chess world has too often moved beyond the boundaries of acceptable, 51 00:02:56,040 --> 00:03:00,959 Speaker 2: harming not only people's reputation, but they're very well. When 52 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 2: this happens, discussions can turn into harassment, bullying, and personal attacks, 53 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,239 Speaker 2: a grave concern in today's environment. And he said that 54 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 2: they are looking into public statements made by Kramnik before 55 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 2: and after Naroditsky's death. 56 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, and so the statements we're talking about. Look, we 57 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 3: didn't know this because we don't we're not in this 58 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 3: chess world. But it was well known and understood that 59 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 3: this guy Kramnik, who is a superstar in the world 60 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 3: of chess, also a grand master. But oh yeah, so 61 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 3: let's back up there a little bit. You got two 62 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 3: high levels in the world of chess, you can be 63 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 3: a world chess champion. That's the highest you can get 64 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 3: right under that is a chess grand master. This is 65 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 3: the ultimate. These are the things you achieved. Well, Kramnik 66 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 3: was also a grand master, but he had won a 67 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 3: world chess championship, had he not? 68 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:56,119 Speaker 2: He was the world champion from two thousand to two 69 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 2: thousand and seven. 70 00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, so he knows a. 71 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: Seven year Regin world champion. 72 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 2: And we heard from Naraditsky's brother who said that he 73 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 2: looked up to Kramnik his whole life. Coming up as 74 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 2: a child prodigy. He looked to Kramnik as the guy 75 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 2: that was his hero. 76 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 3: He looked to him until he became a competitor. And 77 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 3: so what you're talking about here is in Robes everybody 78 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 3: in the community at least immediately started pointing to Kramnik 79 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 3: after the word of Naraditsky's death, because he had accused 80 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 3: Narroditsky several other players as well of cheating. And this 81 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 3: went beyond these are unfounded allegations. Nothing was ever proven 82 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 3: suggested or even got close to hinting that Naradinsky was 83 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,239 Speaker 3: a cheater. But he did it to the point Wherebes 84 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 3: it wasn't just an accusation that kind of floated around, 85 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 3: it became something more that turned into harassment and bullying 86 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 3: according to folks in the community. 87 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 2: That's right, and so what we know about so we 88 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 2: know that Naraditsky the last time we actually saw him 89 00:04:55,880 --> 00:05:00,599 Speaker 2: was during a Twitch broadcast and that was just I 90 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 2: believe the day before. 91 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 1: He was found dead on his couch. 92 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 2: But he talked about at the end he basically would 93 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 2: do these live competitions and live string that I actually 94 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 2: was watching it, and would go on for hours, and 95 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 2: he would explain decisions, He would explain what he was doing, 96 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 2: and he had over five hundred thousand followers who were 97 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 2: watching him, learning from him and entertained by his commentary. 98 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 2: But towards the end of this final broadcast, you could 99 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 2: see people who knew him and were used to his 100 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 2: energy could say he looked exhausted, and he even talked 101 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 2: about how he needed to sleep that night, how he 102 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 2: needed nine hours. But they said that he looked like 103 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 2: you could tell the controversy, the cheating allegations were taking 104 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 2: their toll on him. They said he looked visibly distressed, 105 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 2: and he actually discussed it. He talked about being accused 106 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 2: of cheating, and he said the thing that's frustrating is 107 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 2: he can never shake it that even when he's doing well, 108 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 2: he knows he'll never get credit for it because. 109 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 1: He'll be accused of cheating for years. 110 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, he said he's He actually said he was 111 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 2: crushed at being targeted by Kramnik's attacks, and you could 112 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 2: just see the weight of it on his face, according 113 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 2: to people who knew him and loved him. And it 114 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,359 Speaker 2: was the next day, yes, on October nineteenth, that he 115 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 2: was found unconscious in his home by the Charlotte Chess 116 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 2: Club's founder. They said he wasn't responding and that was 117 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 2: unusual and so certainly I can't imagine that moment when 118 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 2: they walked in and found him on that couch. 119 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 3: No, that's something the police will naturally normally, I mean standard. 120 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 3: This is a death. There's no foul play suspected. There's 121 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 3: just a suspicious death. You don't know the circumstances. So yes, 122 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 3: they had to consider suicide. You mentioned Charlotte there. I 123 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 3: don't know. Did we mention at the top that he, yes, 124 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 3: this is a kid of immigrants, what was it Azerbaijan 125 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 3: and where his parents from? Morocco? Was it? Yes? So, 126 00:06:58,040 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 3: but he grew up in the Bay Area and then 127 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 3: ended up becoming a star. This kid was writing chess 128 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 3: help books as a teenager. Yes to people, So this 129 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 3: dude is a stud. But we mentioned Charlotte. He ended 130 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 3: up in Charlotte and he trained and taught at a 131 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 3: Charlotte chess club out there, and that's why he ended 132 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 3: up there. And the folks there part of that chess 133 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 3: club are the ones who, man, I can't imagine them 134 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,239 Speaker 3: walking into his home. They had to find him. 135 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: And this was their star. 136 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 2: I mean, you mentioned a little bit about some of 137 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 2: his resume. He won the under twelve section of the 138 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 2: World Youth Chess Championship. That was back in two thousand 139 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 2: and seven. We mentioned he became a grand master at 140 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 2: the age of eighteen. He was consistently ranked in the 141 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 2: top two hundred worldwide for traditional chess, but where he 142 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 2: excelled was in this category called blitz chess. So he 143 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 2: was consistently in the top twenty five for blitz chess. 144 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 2: And that's where he got this huge following five hundred 145 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 2: thousand plus watching him play these fast games of chess. 146 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 3: What was his championship? Was it recent? What is he 147 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 3: the raining? But he won the national championship in the 148 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:05,679 Speaker 3: championship in blitz chess fairly recently, I believe, But he's 149 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 3: again now that's fun to watch. It's just a way, 150 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 3: it's just kind of a rapid fire to make those 151 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 3: decisions that quick. That's really impressive to watch. 152 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: It's remarkable to watch him do it. 153 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 2: And I think, look, I watched at least the last 154 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 2: fifteen minutes of his broadcast of his live stream, and 155 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 2: I haven't seen his other ones, so I couldn't compare 156 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 2: his energy to the ones before. But it just kept 157 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 2: striking me at just how normal and confident and just 158 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 2: hopeful he seemed. He was even talking about his next 159 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 2: match and how he promised to get back on with 160 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 2: all of his followers the following day to tell them 161 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 2: how he did, whether he won or lost, Like it 162 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 2: was somebody who was talking about the future, even in 163 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 2: those last few minutes. So I just felt so sickened 164 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 2: by watching something and someone who had so much promise 165 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 2: and so much life left to live at twenty nine, 166 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:54,679 Speaker 2: just to think that someone's words could get under your 167 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 2: skin that much, that you would feel that depressed that 168 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 2: you would end your life. And look as far as 169 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 2: Vladimir Kramnit goes. Obviously, he had been accused of by 170 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 2: many people, including Nardisky himself, of bullying and just accusing 171 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 2: folks of cheating. But he even saw that last broadcast 172 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 2: and started mocking Nardisky on Twitter on x saying, don't 173 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 2: do drugs. Like Basically, he was noticing that Narrodisky seemed 174 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 2: off and was almost mocking him for it. 175 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: So there is a lot to. 176 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 2: Say about where he is, what he said about this controversy, 177 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 2: and what he could be facing if this chess organization 178 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 2: decides to throw any type of sanctions on him based 179 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 2: on the death of Naradisky. We'll have all of that 180 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 2: when we come back. Welcome back to this edition of 181 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,439 Speaker 2: Amy and TJ, where we are talking about the tragic 182 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 2: death of US Grandmaster chess champion Daniel Naroditski and police 183 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:10,719 Speaker 2: right now are investigating this as a possible suicide. However, 184 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 2: there are some complicating factors to this. There is no 185 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 2: official cause of death, but the Chess Federation, the International 186 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 2: Chess Federation, has launched an investigation into a fifty year 187 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 2: old fellow grandmaster, the world champion from two thousand to 188 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 2: two thousand and seven in chess Vladimir Kramnik. He's fifty 189 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 2: years old. He retired from competitive chess in twenty nineteen, 190 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 2: but he has certainly been active on social media and 191 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:41,319 Speaker 2: certainly been active in accusing other chess players of cheating. 192 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,479 Speaker 2: And a lot of folks are connecting those dots. 193 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 3: And nobody is suggesting that Kramnik ever came forward with 194 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 3: any evidence of anything. He's just been spouting this about 195 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 3: people who appear to be competitors or rivals of his. Look, 196 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 3: I guess this happens. Who know, We watched different we 197 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 3: watch college football, we watched NFL, we watch MBA, we 198 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 3: watch college basketball. There's trash talking in every sport, right. 199 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 3: Sometimes there's's banter and it gets a little nasty, but 200 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 3: at the end we shake hands and everybody goes away. 201 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 3: Sometimes it carries over a little bit off the field, 202 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 3: off the court, but not We're used to a certain 203 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 3: level of this. This is unfounded, abusive, constant accusations against 204 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 3: a guy who loved what he was doing, and his 205 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 3: whole life was this thing that you're now telling the 206 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 3: whole world he's a cheat. At that is awful. Now 207 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 3: I don't have to I didn't keep up, so I 208 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 3: don't know, but I can rely on the experts and 209 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 3: everybody in the field who's telling me that there's no 210 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 3: evidence Nardisky ever cheated. 211 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 2: Correct, right, correct, And in fact, it's been interesting because 212 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 2: the question is why would he then accuse so many 213 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 2: people of cheating. Well, chess dot com ceo, who knows 214 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 2: all the players involved and actually had some interesting things 215 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 2: to say because, by the way, that organization, chess dot 216 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 2: com that's the largest chess platform in the world online, 217 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 2: banned Kramnik in twenty twenty three, two years ago because 218 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 2: he was accusing multiple players of cheating. So he was 219 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 2: being so toxic and caustic on their site, they banned 220 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 2: him from this site. But here's what the CEO said 221 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 2: about Kramnik and why he believes he. 222 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:27,439 Speaker 1: Decided to go that route. 223 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 2: He said, Kramnik and some older players resent the newer players, 224 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 2: and here was his quote. We have now a new 225 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:36,199 Speaker 2: guard of chess players who grew up online where they 226 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:40,359 Speaker 2: play all the time and they have more experience playing online. 227 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 2: And then older players like Kramnik, who study high scores 228 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 2: of their rivals, they're too quick to conclude, oh, they 229 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 2: must be cheating. 230 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's no way a twenty nine year old should 231 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 3: be as good as or know as much as I 232 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 3: a fifty year old grandmaster world champion should know exactly. 233 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 3: You kinda get that becomy ego in hubris. But it 234 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 3: was kind of interesting to hear these kids now sit 235 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:04,199 Speaker 3: in a room. You don't have to go find somebody 236 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 3: to play with you. Maybe some of the old school 237 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 3: guys had to when they come up, sit in a 238 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 3: room on a computer and get as many reps in 239 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 3: as you want to. You can do it twenty four 240 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:11,679 Speaker 3: to seven if you want to. 241 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 2: Yep, And you can play against a computer that's better 242 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 2: probably than any other human opponent. So you get better, 243 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 2: you just are better. So what has Vladimir Kramnik said 244 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 2: about all of this, Well, he has also continued to 245 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 2: be vocal on X He has said what he's first 246 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 2: of all, denied that he's bullied this young man Narroditsky, 247 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 2: And he said what public statement after the death of 248 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 2: Daniel was incorrect. I demand clarification from mister president. He's 249 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 2: referring to the president of the Chess Club. I have 250 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 2: not bullied Daniel Narroditsky, nor ever made personal insults towards him. 251 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 2: That is a very bold statement given what so many 252 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:57,079 Speaker 2: others have said that he was constantly accusing him. He's 253 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 2: saying I told the truth, so it wasn't disparaging. I 254 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 2: haven't bullied him because I only told the truth. I mean, 255 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:03,559 Speaker 2: that's his argument. 256 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 3: It sounds have you seen anything he played out? Might 257 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 3: have seen one quote, but anith where what he expressed 258 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 3: condolence to see anyone any heartache, any sadness at the 259 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 3: loss of a life. 260 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 2: He said, it was shocking, he asked, he urged the 261 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 2: Charlotte police to investigate the death. But it didn't ever 262 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 2: sound sympathetic or certainly not apologetic in any way. 263 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 3: Look, maybe I get that, but some of his responses 264 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 3: were Russian. 265 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: Right, Yes, okay, he's a Russian. 266 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 3: Some of the responses threw me. But I mean he 267 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 3: sounded like you're he sounded upset, right, He sounded angry 268 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 3: in some of his language. 269 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: It is defensive. 270 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 3: There's a twenty nine year old guy who's dead. The 271 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 3: only thing to be said right now is man heart 272 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 3: goes out to him and his family. You don't have 273 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 3: to be apologetic, even but that's all you say right now, 274 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 3: is that thing. But to your point as well, everybody 275 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 3: is now coming after him, and so, yeah, you naturally 276 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 3: want to defend yourself and maybe you can understand that. 277 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 3: But now, I mean, how nasty is the stuff getting 278 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 3: going towards Kramning Now? 279 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 2: Yes, well, so he is saying in defense of himself, 280 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 2: he's saying that he is now suffering from bullying, damaging 281 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 2: statements towards him, including murder threats he says he's getting, 282 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 2: and he's actually screenshotting some of the murder threats and 283 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 2: then putting them up online. But other chess stars have 284 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 2: weighed in and they have not been holding back in 285 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 2: any way. One chess star was pleading with the Organization 286 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 2: on AXA, the federal international organization that is investigating him. 287 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 2: Your actions now will be remembered from the chess world 288 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 2: for years to come. Do everything in your power to 289 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 2: make sure justice is served for Daniel Naroditsky and all 290 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 2: the other people who become victims of Kramnik's cyber bullying. 291 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 3: Cyber bullying, haven't we seen cases with people get charged 292 00:15:54,280 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 3: for when somebody's yes ends up suicide after being lead 293 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 3: or getting nasty message. Even sometimes I think it was 294 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 3: a case somebody direct you should kill yourself and they right. 295 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 3: I'm trying to remember all the cases, but there have 296 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 3: been some. 297 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 2: We shall see if I mean, that's all I'm sure 298 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 2: on the table because we're still awaiting the official cause 299 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 2: of death and the investigation that's going on right now 300 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 2: in North Carolina. But in the meantime, the International Chess Federation, 301 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 2: here's what could happen to Kramnik if they determined that 302 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 2: he is responsible in some way. Depending on the circumstances 303 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 2: and the findings, there is a broad array of possible sanctions. 304 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 2: This is from the spokesperson from the board, from financial 305 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 2: penalties to a ban. The decision lies entirely with the 306 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 2: Ethics and Disciplinary Commission, which is independent of the President 307 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 2: and the Board. So they are going to determine if 308 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 2: there will be any sanctions, but it looks like it 309 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 2: will be a financial one or just a ban in 310 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 2: any sort of like he can't compete in any way, 311 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 2: shape or form. 312 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 3: They were aware. That's just bullshit. I mean that because 313 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 3: somebody had to die. 314 00:16:58,360 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: That should have happened before what. 315 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 3: All this was out there. This has been going on 316 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 3: for a year. That's that's tough. Fine, look into it, 317 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 3: but don't come on, don't now we need to act 318 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,439 Speaker 3: because he killed himself. And now we okay again, I 319 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 3: know they're investigating robes. We don't know how this young 320 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:20,360 Speaker 3: man died. But to take the stance now that now 321 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 3: we have to take action, Why do we do it 322 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 3: after the fact. Why can't we do it beforehand? What 323 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 3: would have been meant to this young man to see 324 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 3: that this guy bullying him at somebody else out hearing 325 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 3: him or listening to him or seeing his pain? You 326 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 3: think about now women were just doing these stories with 327 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 3: women and sexual abuse allegations, not being heard, not being 328 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 3: listened to. This is the no, no, not the same, 329 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 3: but you get what I'm looking for. 330 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 1: Virginia or Duffrey. 331 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 2: I mean she ended up dying by suicide because for 332 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 2: so long she wasn't believed. 333 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 3: Why aren't we supporting and listening ahead of time? This 334 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 3: federation just needs to shut the fuck up right now 335 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 3: because that statement. Look, I was kind of sitting back 336 00:17:58,000 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 3: in my chair until you read that statement. I'm not 337 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 3: looking at the note. But that's painful and hurtful and 338 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 3: offensive to think now we take action because somebody is dead. 339 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 3: Don't do that? Take action? Okay? With that? To come on, 340 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 3: where was the failure there, Why do you take action before? 341 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 3: He's all I'm saying, why does somebody have to die 342 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 3: with that? 343 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 2: And that's such a question that needs to be that's 344 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 2: asked and then answered, and then there needs to be 345 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 2: changes based on that answer, because certainly we're at a 346 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 2: place now in twenty twenty five where we recognize that 347 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 2: words matter, that words are just as sharp as weapons sometimes, 348 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 2: and we all need to be careful and mindful of 349 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 2: what we put out in the world and how we 350 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 2: treat other people. 351 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 3: We say that, and we have been there, and look, yes, 352 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,439 Speaker 3: we talked about this and we were shocked, and we 353 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 3: were debating about doing this story for several days, and 354 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 3: then this other thing came up about this guy harassing him, 355 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 3: And yes, we have. You and I have been in 356 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 3: position to where we have had suicidal thoughts and taken 357 00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 3: not quite suicidal actions, but to the point that it scared. 358 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 3: We've scared each other, yes, in our behavior, and it 359 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 3: had everything to do with someone telling a lie about 360 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 3: you that you think the public beliefs. We've been in 361 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 3: this position in our lives to where people think that 362 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 3: we are together and in a relationship because we cheated 363 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,399 Speaker 3: on our spousees, we got caught in some affair and 364 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 3: then this is what happened. People still think that and 365 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 3: it's wrong. That story is one hundred percent wrong, and 366 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 3: we can't shake it. And you damn right. I've considered 367 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:36,640 Speaker 3: killing myself over this idea that there are people out 368 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 3: there I can't convince of the truth, the truth, right. 369 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 3: I could sleep a lot easier if, like, ah, they 370 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 3: caught me. That's what happened, and this is what we 371 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 3: got to do. No, it's tough and it's painful, and 372 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 3: it sucks, and we still deal with it on moments. 373 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 3: We're better about it now. But words, these are words 374 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 3: that are printed and believed and you can't do anything 375 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:03,360 Speaker 3: about it. And this guy's life from almost birth has 376 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,719 Speaker 3: been chess, and he is one of the best in 377 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:12,439 Speaker 3: the world at it, and nobody now believes. Possibly some 378 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 3: do plenty do right, it's most to do. It's not 379 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 3: as bad as he thought his head. He thinks the 380 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 3: entire world anytime he wins a match thinks he cheated. Yep, 381 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 3: I'm sure that's what he thought. 382 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:25,239 Speaker 1: That had to be where his head was for him 383 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:25,880 Speaker 1: to do what he did. 384 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 3: That Wait, sucks, man, I hated for this kid and 385 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 3: his family and everything, and now this federally I swear 386 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 3: I was. I was, literally, folks, I was leaning back 387 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 3: in my chair until you read that statement from the Federation, 388 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 3: and that just is infuriating. Fuck. Okay, what what is this? 389 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:42,360 Speaker 3: This is Saturday? 390 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 1: Okay, I can say fuck on Saturday. 391 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 2: No, But I do think that it's important and I 392 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,439 Speaker 2: don't think people understand until it happens to you. And 393 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 2: that feeling of being misunderstood, not believed, and not given 394 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 2: just your do when like I love what you said, 395 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 2: that was his whole life. It makes sense when you 396 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 2: think about that was his value, that was his worth 397 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:05,880 Speaker 2: and it was robbed. He was robbed of it from 398 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 2: this one man who he gave too much power to. 399 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,119 Speaker 2: But still, we'll see how this all shakes out and 400 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 2: shakes down. We will follow this story and we appreciate 401 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 2: you listening to us. We hope you learn something about 402 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 2: it too, and certainly we can all remember to be kinder. 403 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 2: And with that, everyone, thank you for listening. I'm Amy 404 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:24,159 Speaker 2: Robot alongside TJ. Holmes. 405 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: We'll talk to you soon.