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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, along

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Speaker 1: with my co host of Bonnie Quinn. Every business day

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Speaker 1: we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts,

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Speaker 1: along with essential market moving news. Kind the Bloomberg Markets

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Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts,

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Speaker 1: and on Bloomberg dot com. Well, as we saw this morning,

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Speaker 1: the US labor market lost jobs in December for the

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Speaker 1: first time in eight months. Let's get a closer look

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Speaker 1: on kind of the labor market overall in the United States.

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Speaker 1: We welcome Martin uh Moosey, President and CEO of Paychecks.

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Speaker 1: They're based in Rochester, Uh, New York. Martin, thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us here. I know you guys have

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Speaker 1: been doing a lot of work on small businesses and

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Speaker 1: we know that they've just been really, really challenged during

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Speaker 1: this pandemic. What can you tell us, Well, we saw

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Speaker 1: again this month in December. You know, we did see

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Speaker 1: a drop in the small business index that Paychecks puts

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Speaker 1: out every month. That pretty much mirrored the jobs report

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Speaker 1: that you saw this morning. While the jobs were down

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Speaker 1: to hundred and forty. On the jobs report, you did

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Speaker 1: see that leisure and hospitality were down almost five thousands,

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Speaker 1: So not unexpected with the closures and the restrictions that

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Speaker 1: you're seeing in restaurants and bars and so forth across

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Speaker 1: the country. I guess the positive news would be that

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Speaker 1: jobs intempt staffing, for example, we're up uh and and

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Speaker 1: so you're seeing that these small and mid sized businesses

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Speaker 1: in particular are bringing some people in or keeping them

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Speaker 1: at a part time level or temporary staffing to kind

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Speaker 1: of see how things go as the vaccine rolls out, Marty.

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Speaker 1: From the data that you received, phone calls perhaps that

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Speaker 1: you've taken and make what are you hearing about how

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Speaker 1: concerned people are in terms of getting back into a workforce,

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Speaker 1: into a new job with the risk of coronavirus out there. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there is a there is concern. I think the vaccine,

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Speaker 1: you know, the speed of how fast we can get

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Speaker 1: it out that is going to slow the recovery a

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Speaker 1: bit until things start moving along, which I hope they

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Speaker 1: will very shortly. I think you'll also see that you

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Speaker 1: can see how important the new stimulus package was that

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Speaker 1: was approved and maybe more to come, because small businesses,

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Speaker 1: mid sized businesses really needed that help and this stimulus

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Speaker 1: was very focused on small businesses. You know, you can

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Speaker 1: apply basically asked for a loan of up to a

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand dollars, which can mean a lot

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Speaker 1: to a small business, without even giving any data at all.

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Speaker 1: And the forgiveness is going to be that basically you

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Speaker 1: attest to drop in your revenue over a quarter past quarter.

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Speaker 1: So it really is making it much more, much easier

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Speaker 1: to get this p PP loan. We've gotten some guidance

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Speaker 1: this weekend that process loans. Looks like loans will be

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Speaker 1: starting to be processed on Monday the eleven, So that's

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Speaker 1: great news for small business in particular. So, Marty, you

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Speaker 1: guys have paychecks, you're you know you have you have

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Speaker 1: six d eighty thousand clients you pay one in twelve

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Speaker 1: private sector employees across the United States. What has your

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Speaker 1: experience been as we presumably get towards mid year and

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Speaker 1: the vaccinations really really ramp up and perhaps you kin

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Speaker 1: it begins to open up. How many of those shuttered

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Speaker 1: businesses that we see as we walk along Main Street

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Speaker 1: USA that are closed, that were once vibrant businesses, how

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Speaker 1: do you think they're going to come back? Well, our

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Speaker 1: experience has been that actually quite a few have been

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Speaker 1: able to hold on. They may have suspended their service,

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Speaker 1: but they've continued to be uh to keep their business live,

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Speaker 1: meaning that they're going to open back up or change.

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Speaker 1: You know, many in the first wave we're able to

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Speaker 1: for restaurants, for example, the hardest hit we're able to

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Speaker 1: go to pick up only for food, adjust their workforce

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Speaker 1: and so forth. Uh. And I think, you know, small businesses,

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Speaker 1: mid sized businesses in the US are very resilient and

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Speaker 1: they have found also a new ways to do things.

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Speaker 1: You know, about half of our clients kept the same

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Speaker 1: number of employees through December, and another quarter of them

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Speaker 1: added employees actually, and a quarter reduced employees. So we've

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Speaker 1: also seen small and mid sized businesses be pretty nimble

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Speaker 1: and pivot and finding opportunities in the pandemic to maybe

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Speaker 1: adjust their businesses and do things a little bit different.

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Speaker 1: Of course, we know that, you know, really the majority

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Speaker 1: of small businesses actually fail. It's a very very very

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Speaker 1: tough environment, even in the best of times to get

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Speaker 1: a small business up and running with the amount of

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Speaker 1: capital involved and keep it up and running in a

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Speaker 1: successful way. Do you have any data on you know,

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Speaker 1: how many sort of newer small businesses will be created

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Speaker 1: or how many will will will go down the drain. Well,

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Speaker 1: one of the things that's been very interesting to watch

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Speaker 1: is that year to date, through the year now, actually

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Speaker 1: new business starts are up well over twenty So, you know,

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Speaker 1: new businesses have found ways to find an opportunity in

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Speaker 1: the pandemic to fulfill a need that a that a

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Speaker 1: a customer has and so they've been able to start

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Speaker 1: a lot of new businesses, particularly California, Florida, Georgia and construction.

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Speaker 1: Things around construction have been continued to be very strong.

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Speaker 1: We've seen construction job growth up for the last seven

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Speaker 1: months consecutively and uh, and now you're starting to see

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Speaker 1: a little bit of wage go up as well as

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Speaker 1: minimum wages have gone into effect here January one, So

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Speaker 1: there is some positive light there. You know, some businesses,

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Speaker 1: you're right, you know, this was too long of a

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Speaker 1: time to go and particularly too much time between the

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Speaker 1: two stimulus packages unfortunately, but this latest stimulus, BECCAS has

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Speaker 1: shown a lot of interest and UH and a lot

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Speaker 1: of good positive things to help them with cash Flower

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Speaker 1: the next few months already talked to us about the

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Speaker 1: regionality of kind of maybe what you're seeing in terms

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Speaker 1: of the jobs market, the labor market, the business small businesses. Um,

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Speaker 1: this third wave seems to be kind of a national

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Speaker 1: wave if you've always seen any regional differences. Sure, the

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Speaker 1: South has continued to be the strongest region for job

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Speaker 1: index in these small businesses in particular, and that has

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Speaker 1: been led by construction, both residential and commercial as well.

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Speaker 1: Uh you know, sales of new single family homes across

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Speaker 1: the country are up over through November, so it's November

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Speaker 1: over November, so it's amazing that, you know, while low

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Speaker 1: interest rates have really helped people, uh, you know, build

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Speaker 1: new homes, that has helped construction in jobs. But the

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Speaker 1: South has been the strongest. Florida, Texas, Georgia, they have

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Speaker 1: been the strongest states. The West has probably taken the

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Speaker 1: biggest hit with hospitality, leisure and hospitality jobs. They're being

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Speaker 1: the biggest drop in the Northeast has been down at

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Speaker 1: the beginning and is kind of holding right now. So

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Speaker 1: South has definitely been the strongest from a region standpoint. Marty,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us, and the best

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Speaker 1: of luck in Rochester. They're keeping safe from the coronavirus

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Speaker 1: and putting people to work. Much appreciate your joining us today.

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Speaker 1: Marty Mucy is president and CEO of Paychecks, which pays

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Speaker 1: you know, one in four people employed by small business

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Speaker 1: around the country. It is time for Bloomberg Opinion today.

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Speaker 1: We're joined by Remeeu, Senior editor National Review, also a

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Opinion columnists based in Washington, d c. Remesh. Perfect

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Speaker 1: timing to chat with you. We've had a couple of

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Speaker 1: days to digest what we witnessed in the nation's capital.

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Speaker 1: Would love to get your thirty foot view of what occurred. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think that UM Senate Majority leader until now Mitch

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Speaker 1: McConnell had it right when he called it a failed insurrection, right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it was a in some ways ridiculous attempt

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Speaker 1: at an insurrection, but in another way deadly serious. I mean,

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Speaker 1: in that way it was like the Beer Hall putsch

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Speaker 1: in UM. This was an attempt to disrupt the lawful

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Speaker 1: proceedings of the United States, to keep there from being

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Speaker 1: a peaceful transfer of presidential power. And it failed. But

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Speaker 1: it was shocking that it was attempted, and that it

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Speaker 1: was attempted is a real stain on the Republican officeholders,

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Speaker 1: most especially President Trump, who have done so many irresponsible

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Speaker 1: things to encourage it. Well, the President tweeting to his

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Speaker 1: voters this morning, again calling them seventy five millions strong.

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Speaker 1: Unclear if they are actually still seventy five million strong,

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Speaker 1: But I am curious, Ramesh, does this affect in any

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Speaker 1: way his ability to be sort of an elder statesman

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Speaker 1: type character for the GOP or even possibly another run. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's it's close to seventy four million. But he's who

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Speaker 1: voted for him, But he's never been really is a

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Speaker 1: stickler for facts that's actually closer to the truth than

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Speaker 1: than a lot of the things he says. Look, he's

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Speaker 1: never going to be uh an elder statesman in the

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Speaker 1: traditional way. Um. He can try to be a force

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Speaker 1: in the Republican Party. Um, but the kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: the becoming a respectable, um, normal figure called in when

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Speaker 1: serious UH and sober statesmanship is required. Um, you know

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Speaker 1: that's not going to happen. Future presidents are not going

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Speaker 1: to use him as that kind of resource. UH, And

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Speaker 1: ask for whether he can even be the kind of

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Speaker 1: kingmaker or future candidate that he wants to be. I

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Speaker 1: do think that the events this week have hurt that possibility. Um,

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Speaker 1: But we have to, I think wait and see some

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Speaker 1: of the long term repercussions, in particular to see whether

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Speaker 1: Republican voters respond to his disgraceful behavior and to his

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Speaker 1: loss of power by moving on. That's kind of where

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Speaker 1: I wanted to go. Remesh, what, in your opinion is

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Speaker 1: the future of the political party I'm thinking about, you know,

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Speaker 1: the George will conservative view of the Republican Party that

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Speaker 1: seems to be a thing of the past. Is it

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Speaker 1: that Ted Cruz, Josh Hawley. I just don't know what

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Speaker 1: the future of the republ the party is. What do

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Speaker 1: you think, Well, I think that it is up for grabs. Um.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that it makes sense or is possible

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Speaker 1: for the Republican Party to simply move back to its

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Speaker 1: pre Trump incarnation. I think one of the reasons Trump

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Speaker 1: was able to become the leader of the party was

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Speaker 1: that that previous party was too often out of touch

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Speaker 1: with the economic interests of most Americans. UM. And so

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Speaker 1: you know, when Trump talks about becoming a working class party,

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Speaker 1: some of that is just marketing. Um. But I do

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Speaker 1: think that there is something to the idea that the

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Speaker 1: Republican Party needed to change and still needs to to

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Speaker 1: change in some ways, um, in its thinking and its

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Speaker 1: approach to those issues. But I don't think that the

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Speaker 1: party has a future um being tied to the worst

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Speaker 1: aspects of President Trump's personality, which is what to a

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Speaker 1: very army extent, it has become, you know. Punch bowlded

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Speaker 1: the new media outlet and DC had a story today

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Speaker 1: about Minority Leader in the House Kevin McCarthy and President

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Speaker 1: Trump having a screaming match the other day. Who is

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Speaker 1: in President Trump's corner within the White House, within the

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Speaker 1: administration these days? From well, it seems to be a

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Speaker 1: shrinking group of people. Um. All accounts, both private and public,

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Speaker 1: seemed to be that that he's kind of hunkered down,

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I mean, this is what happens

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Speaker 1: when you have a leader who doesn't want to hear

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Speaker 1: news that is unflattering or inconvenient to him. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: And and the the fact is he's got to leave.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's he's relatedly you know, through you know,

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Speaker 1: basically through grow to tea much much too late, admitted

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Speaker 1: as much. But but he doesn't want to hear it.

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Speaker 1: And uh, and so you know, he's he's just talking

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Speaker 1: to the true believers. Seventy four million people voted for

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Speaker 1: President Trump the last election. What does the Democratic Party,

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Speaker 1: President lick Biden, what did they need to do to

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Speaker 1: reach some or many of those seventy four million people.

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Speaker 1: I think that some are many is the exact right

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Speaker 1: way to think about this. And uh, and President Lick

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Speaker 1: Biden has a shrewd understanding of this that you make

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Speaker 1: changes at the margin. Um. He was able to win

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Speaker 1: by picking up a lot of the Republicans who had

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Speaker 1: an independence, who had leaned Republican who were alienated by Trump,

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Speaker 1: but also by winning back some of the Democrats who

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Speaker 1: have gone over to Trump and UH and bringing them

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Speaker 1: back home. He has made a very crucial point of

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Speaker 1: saying he wants to govern for all Americans. Now it's

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Speaker 1: important to follow through on that, of course, and that's

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Speaker 1: the harder part. But frankly, even just saying it is

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Speaker 1: an important step. And it's the kind of thing that

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Speaker 1: has been almost entirely absent from President Trump's politics. Mess.

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Speaker 1: Do you see any you know, young charismatic people coming

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Speaker 1: up through the ranks of the GOP that might, you know,

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Speaker 1: try to unify the party in some way, trying to

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Speaker 1: find a middle ground between the factions. Well, I think

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Speaker 1: that's what a lot of Republicans think of themselves as

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Speaker 1: doing in various ways. But who's going to actually be

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Speaker 1: able to put the pieces together and in what configuration

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Speaker 1: those pieces will go? That is I think completely up

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Speaker 1: in the air. We don't know. Um, who's going to

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Speaker 1: be successful that it might take end up being a governor,

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Speaker 1: somebody who has not been so high to the Washington

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Speaker 1: Party during the Trump years, but somebody who's actually been

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Speaker 1: been out doing other things and only occasionally commenting on Trump. Um,

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Speaker 1: who has the best chance of success in that endeavor?

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Speaker 1: And should the Amendment be invoked? Well, you know, I

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Speaker 1: I think that at the very least, is a good

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Speaker 1: thing that we are spending these days, these last days

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Speaker 1: of the Trump presidency, discussing impeachment, removal and the amendment,

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Speaker 1: if only to help box this president in. Um. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how realistic any of those options are. But look,

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Speaker 1: it's always been my view that he's unfit for office

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Speaker 1: and uh and he's a dangerous man. And as a result.

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Speaker 1: Rerepreneur Bloomberg Opinnion contributor and senior editor at the National Reviews.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Well. I guess it took a

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Speaker 1: insurrection at the US nation's capital to push the pandemic

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Speaker 1: off the front pages for a day or two, but

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Speaker 1: it is still there. The US suffered more than four

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Speaker 1: thousand coronavirus deaths in a single day for the first time. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It is just brutal out there. Let's get the latest

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Speaker 1: on the virus and on vaccines. We do that every week.

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Speaker 1: We're so fortunate to have Lauren Sour join us. Lauren

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Speaker 1: is an associate professor of Emergency Medicine the Johns Hopkins

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Speaker 1: School of Medicine. On the phone, we should note that

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg School of Public Health is promoted by Michael R. Bloomberg,

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Speaker 1: founder Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. Lauren, I'd love to

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Speaker 1: talk you first about the surge in cases. I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to get a sense of how much is being driven by,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe just the fallout, if you will, from

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Speaker 1: the holidays when people got together and perhaps didn't uh

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Speaker 1: do the social distancing thing as well as they should,

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Speaker 1: versus maybe this new strain which appears to be more uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, more difficult. Yeah, it's a great question. I

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Speaker 1: think there's a lot of eyes on trying to make

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Speaker 1: that determination. I think it's probably both, to be perfectly honest. UM,

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Speaker 1: I saw it, uh the other day on Meet the Press,

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Speaker 1: Tony Fauci said, it's terrible, it's unfortunate, but it was predictable.

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Speaker 1: And I think, um, that's how we're all feeling. We

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Speaker 1: as we saw people get on airplanes, we sell, people

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Speaker 1: drive to friends and family that they didn't you know,

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Speaker 1: normally interact with. And UM, now we're seeing the impact

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Speaker 1: of that holiday travel and that new holiday mixing h

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Speaker 1: really play out across the country. We are starting to

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Speaker 1: see the variant pop up in a lot of UM

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Speaker 1: places across the country, UM and across the globally. But

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Speaker 1: I think, um, you know that the spread of that

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Speaker 1: variant is quelled by following those travel restrictions, following physical

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Speaker 1: distancing practices, following mask and practices in the same way

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Speaker 1: that that the non variant spread is is dampened. And

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Speaker 1: so if people are traveling, then you're just going to

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Speaker 1: have an even greater impact, whether it's by UM people

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Speaker 1: infected with the stream with the variant or not. The

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Speaker 1: UK had its steady estay yesterday as well as the

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Speaker 1: United States, Lauren, how many weeks would people have to

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Speaker 1: shelter in place for this thing to actually move back

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Speaker 1: a little bit? Give us a chance to get people vaccinated. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think you're gonna see lockdown similar to before. So

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Speaker 1: at least four to six weeks to get get spread

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Speaker 1: under control. And that's really um that that number is

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Speaker 1: dependent on how well people adhere to um, the lockdowns,

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Speaker 1: to the restrictions, and to the masking and distancing when

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Speaker 1: they come out of it, right. So even when the

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Speaker 1: lockdowns are released and restrictions are lightened, Um, people have

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Speaker 1: to be good stewards of those things that we know

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Speaker 1: that work really well. Right. So if the restrictions are

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Speaker 1: released and then all of a sudden people go back

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Speaker 1: to the behavior they were having right before and during

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Speaker 1: the holidays, then we'll just be back in that place

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Speaker 1: again until um, you know, until we get it under

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Speaker 1: control again, and it'll just be a cycle, Lauren. One

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Speaker 1: of the issues kind of cropping up here in the

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Speaker 1: New York metro area is a fairly significant percentage of

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Speaker 1: those one A those Phase one A essential workers healthcare workers.

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Speaker 1: People in the nursing homes are choosing not to get

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Speaker 1: the vaccination, and now the question is, well, what do

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Speaker 1: you do with those vaccines that aren't being administered? So

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Speaker 1: that's kind of a bonus contention here in New York.

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Speaker 1: What are you finding at the Johns Hopkins University of

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Speaker 1: the Medical Center? Are people is a meaningful percentage of

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Speaker 1: the healthcare workers choosing not to get it? I think

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Speaker 1: we're seeing people get the vaccine here UM, thankfully. But

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Speaker 1: we've done a lot of work to educate people a

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Speaker 1: town halls, UM emails with information, frequently asked questions, fact sheets,

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Speaker 1: UM a system that is accessible and easy for them

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Speaker 1: to use within the context of their job to just

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Speaker 1: sign up to get it. So I think the problems

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Speaker 1: stem from a lack of funding in communication strategies and

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Speaker 1: building trust about the vaccine. You know, we've heard that

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Speaker 1: a lot of people are concerned about the shortened timeline,

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Speaker 1: and so we should have spent and should still continue

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Speaker 1: to spend time and effort explaining how even though the

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Speaker 1: timeline was accelerated, all of the steps were in there

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Speaker 1: and to create a safe and effective vaccine, And that's

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Speaker 1: what I think we need to be focused on. And

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Speaker 1: then just making sure that people can actually access it, right,

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Speaker 1: So having a system that is not a website that

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Speaker 1: continues to crash, or a paper based system, or a

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Speaker 1: line you know, a queuing based system, UM that that

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Speaker 1: inhibits people from being able to really get in and

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Speaker 1: get out in the shortest amount of time possible and

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Speaker 1: go back to their jobs. The frontline, healthcare workers and

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Speaker 1: essential workers keeping this responsive bloat Lauren, how long before

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Speaker 1: we know whether we'll have to get a vaccine every year?

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Speaker 1: I think we're going to start to see some of

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Speaker 1: those data come out as people are being um vaccinated

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Speaker 1: with more regularity and the vaccine programs expand. UM this

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Speaker 1: second season or next round. You know, we're in sort

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Speaker 1: of year one of the pandemic, but we're also in

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Speaker 1: year one of potentially cyclical or seasonal virus UM and

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Speaker 1: so we're gonna learn a lot in the next twelve

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Speaker 1: months about how this virus works and how immunity UM

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Speaker 1: is both conferred and last in vaccinated populations, so also

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Speaker 1: in people who had natural infections and some combination of

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Speaker 1: the two. All right, Lauren, continue the fantastic work, and

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Speaker 1: thank you for always making time for us. We get

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Speaker 1: updated regularly by Lauren Sour Johns Hopkins University, Associate Professor

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Speaker 1: of Emergency Medicine, and of course Johns Hopkins University is

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Speaker 1: support of my Michael R. Bloomberg, who is obviously the

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Speaker 1: owner and of this news network and the parent company,

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg LP. Joe mis Act Maybes, editor for Bloomberg Briefs

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Speaker 1: joins us. Now, Joe, since the last time we spoke

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Speaker 1: with you, we have a lot more clarity about what

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Speaker 1: the next four years and Washington is going to be. Like.

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Speaker 1: We've had the Georgia Senate runoffs and they've both gone

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Speaker 1: blew those seats. How did the muni market react? Well, Uh,

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Speaker 1: with a great sense of relief, I think, because now

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Speaker 1: you have a very real possibility of more relief going

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Speaker 1: to states and municipalities directly rather than the sort of

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Speaker 1: indirect relief that's already contained in the package that Congress

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Speaker 1: passed earlier. Uh. And just you know, relief because there's

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Speaker 1: more certainty about what's going to happen and the next

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Speaker 1: thing is going to be. I would imagine, according to

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Speaker 1: my sources, very quick action on what some people would

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Speaker 1: call tax reform. That's where I want to go Joe. UM.

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Speaker 1: A topic that is near and dear to the hearts

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Speaker 1: of our listeners in the Tri State area and selected

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Speaker 1: other markets around the country, which is the Trump tap

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Speaker 1: on state and local taxes. Where do you do you

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Speaker 1: think that's going to be on the agenda? A whole

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Speaker 1: very much so thank you. You know, between between salt

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Speaker 1: and this thing called advance for fundings that municipalities do

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Speaker 1: that was taken away by by the previous administration on

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Speaker 1: a tax exempt basis, So those two things are going

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Speaker 1: to be very much in the sites of state and

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Speaker 1: local lobbyists. But yeah, that's salt, the salt repeal. You know,

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Speaker 1: the Democrats are in the kind of they're they're torn

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Speaker 1: two ways on this because they don't want to be

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Speaker 1: seen as, uh, giving a tax break to the rich.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, the salt cap was really

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Speaker 1: aimed at chiefly democratically run states, So I would imagine

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Speaker 1: that they're going to go with the the soft cap

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Speaker 1: and get rid of that. I think that's what's going

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Speaker 1: to happen there. So yeah, that's very very big and

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Speaker 1: uh in the municipal market, and people are just getting

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Speaker 1: prepared for, you know what the next next tax bill

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Speaker 1: is going to we're not even tax reconciliation. I guess

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Speaker 1: they call it go to how the previous tax reform

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Speaker 1: was passed. So give us some details, Joe, into which

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Speaker 1: states did we see the most flows? Out of which

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Speaker 1: states did we see the most flows? Well, let's see.

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Speaker 1: I think I read a report last week. I'm not

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Speaker 1: talking about uh uh specifically tax reheaded but Texas was

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Speaker 1: the big winner, uh in the last couple of years.

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Speaker 1: I think you know, they are the states that has

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Speaker 1: the most people going into it. And of course, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know they don't have the income tax and in Texas. Uh,

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Speaker 1: so of course you know that's um, we're of the

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Speaker 1: but that was one of the Trumpet arguments I guess

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Speaker 1: for doing away with assault uh deductions or you know,

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Speaker 1: lowering them. Uh. Those are supposed to sunset anyway. But yes,

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Speaker 1: in response to your question, Texas was a big winner. Uh,

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Speaker 1: many states down south Florida obviously. UM. So we'll see

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Speaker 1: if if this at all will help to reverse the flow.

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Speaker 1: Probably not, but you never know. Such expectations are that

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Speaker 1: with the Biden administration and now you know, a a

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Speaker 1: very narrow uh lead in Congress that perhaps income taxes

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Speaker 1: will be going up. Does that mean people are gonna

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Speaker 1: be searching for tax advantaged yields in the muni markets?

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Speaker 1: Are expecting a fund of course, of course they're good

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Speaker 1: you know, tax exempt income uh, municipal bonds, preservation of capital,

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Speaker 1: tax attempt income. Uh. You know, never goes out of style.

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Speaker 1: And with higher taxes, of course there's going to be

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Speaker 1: more demand. Uh. So you know, that's it's going to

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Speaker 1: be an interesting dynamic to watch in the coming few months.

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Speaker 1: So Joe talked us about some of the indussease and

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Speaker 1: you know, where you might be able to buy protection

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Speaker 1: in terms of the markets, given you know, the amount

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Speaker 1: of chaloes that we've seen just this week alone and

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Speaker 1: the fact that there's potential for more chaos in the

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Speaker 1: next two weeks. Wow. Uh, well, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: you know, we carried an interesting story earlier this week

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Speaker 1: about municipal bond insurance making a big comeback, and I

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Speaker 1: just wanted to say a word about that. That was

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Speaker 1: a very interesting thing because, like you said, there's so

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Speaker 1: much chaos in the market and so many uh, there

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Speaker 1: was so much fear of you know, the economy cratering

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Speaker 1: and causing more damage to state's municipalities that uh, you

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Speaker 1: know in in there's a big increase to UH. I

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Speaker 1: think it was something like thirty four billion dollars. The

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Speaker 1: municipal bonds were insured, and people look out, you know,

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Speaker 1: on the horizon and think it's probably gonna be more

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Speaker 1: bonds ensured because that fear of default and economic erosion

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Speaker 1: for a lot of states and especially municipalities is still there.

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Speaker 1: So people were saying, you know, insured bonds, it's probably

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Speaker 1: gonna be more of them. Ian. Hey, Joe, thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us. We always appreciate chatting with you

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Speaker 1: on because it means it's Friday's. When we talk to

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Speaker 1: Joe Misac, that means it's Friday's. That's a good thing.

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Speaker 1: John my sac Muni's editor for Bloomberg Briefs giving us

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Speaker 1: the update on the municipal bond market. And I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you if Annie, that state and local tax issue is

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Speaker 1: a big one for the folks in the metro New

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Speaker 1: York area, Los Angeles, San Francisco, that was really a big,

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Speaker 1: big issue. Absolutely, we're seeing more and more companies open

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Speaker 1: what they're calling basses in Florida. They're they're maintaining that

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Speaker 1: they're saying in New York, but I wonder you know

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Speaker 1: where the books are actually tottled up. Yeah, it'll be

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Speaker 1: interesting to see to what extent the Biden administration in

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Speaker 1: the Democrats in Congress King perhaps roll back that sotcap.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can

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Speaker 1: subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts or whatever

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00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: a podcast platform you prefer. I'm Bonnie Quinn. I'm on

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Speaker 1: Twitter at Bonnie Quinn, and I'm Paul Sweeney. I'm on

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00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you can always

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Speaker 1: catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio