WEBVTT - TechStuff Turns On the Dark Web 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:02.880 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:08.960 It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology? With 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:17.440 tech Stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello everyone, 0:00:17.520 --> 0:00:19.720 welcome to tech stuff. My name is Chris Poulett and 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:22.079 I'm an editor and how stuff works dot com. Sitting 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:24.640 in fresh for me as always a senior writer. Jonathan 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:27.680 Strickland Hi high above the North Pole. On the first 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:30.680 day of nineteen sixty nine, two professors of English literature 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:33.040 approached each other at a combined velocity of one thousand, 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:37.600 two hundred miles per hour. Hmmm did they collide? You'll 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:40.640 have to read the book to find out. Done. Done. 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:46.040 So we are today talking about an interesting subject. Definitely 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:50.560 something that is beyond the eyes of mirror mortals, unless, 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:52.840 of course, you will put the right software on your 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:55.320 computer or you know what you're doing. Yeah, more or less, Okay, 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:58.200 beyond the eyes of people like me, because I'm such 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:00.360 a I'm such a service level kind of guy. We're 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:03.280 talking about the dark web or the dark Internet, or 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:06.080 the deep web, or the undernet or the deep net, 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:09.360 or the invisible web or the hidden web. There are 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:13.200 a lot of different names for this. Yeah, so there 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:16.000 are two main definitions we need to get out of 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:20.959 the way. Yes, because there are people think of different 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:24.520 things when these terms come up, and both both things 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:28.600 are real and need to be addressed. So here's the 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:32.920 less interesting one, at least in my opinion. There are 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:37.399 machines that either were once connected to the Internet or 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:40.880 were once connected to a network that subsequently was connected 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:45.679 to the Internet, that are no longer reachable on the Internet. Okay, 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:49.760 so let's say, like their entire military networks that were 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:53.639 part of arpanet back when arponette was a thing, and Arpanet, 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:56.640 if you guys don't know, was a predecessor to the Internet. 0:01:56.680 --> 0:01:59.200 It was where a lot of the protocols that were 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:03.960 developed for the Internet first were used. If only somebody 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:07.040 wrote an article about that for how Stuff Works dot com. Hey, 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:09.080 and funny, you should mention that I did write an 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:13.120 article about that how arpa Networks. But yeah, urpennet actually 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:16.200 a very interesting story. Yeah, it's and that is the 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:20.760 story of creating a network that can let different machines 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:27.120 uh communicate with one another. You know, and before networks 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:31.200 were mostly composed of machines that were essentially identical to 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:35.840 each other and they were all generally within the same space, 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:39.280 like same building. But Arpanet was an attempt to create 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:41.560 a network that would allow different machines running on different 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:45.200 operating systems and different locations communicate with one another. And 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:49.560 it grew substantially over the years that it existed, and 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:52.560 it started to incorporate other types of networks, including military 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:56.359 networks and research organizations. Well, some of those military networks 0:02:56.760 --> 0:03:00.200 did not keep pace with the changes that were aid 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:05.320 when the Internet began to emerge. Now, our bonnette and 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:09.160 the Internet are not the same thing, not technically. The 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:11.760 Internet is a is a network of networks, of which 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:15.400 our ponnet was sort of kind of one, But our 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:18.320 ponett's essentially been offline. That's another example. Is that stuff 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:20.720 that was on our ponnet that's no longer accessible by 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:25.000 the Internet. Um, sometimes these machines themselves have failed and 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:27.920 they are no longer reachable, so that information is the 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:30.239 at least the original source of the information is lost. 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:32.560 You might be able to find bits and pieces of 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:36.400 information on other sites because people have have cited it 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:40.240 or stolen it or whatever, but the actual original source 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:42.800 of that information is gone. You know what occurs to me, 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:46.160 what's that that we should point out to that that 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:48.920 that information may not have ever been on the web. 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:53.520 Um because as as a lot of our listeners know, 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:56.760 but maybe not all of them, Uh, the the Worldwide 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:59.040 Web is a part of the Internet. It is not 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:02.840 the entire ternet. There's information that is available on a 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:07.200 computer network that can be accessed through different means, and 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:10.640 so calling it the deep web in that case, in 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:12.440 the in the definition that you were just talking about, 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:14.320 the sense that that you were just talking about may 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:17.400 not necessarily be completely accurate because it might be found 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:21.280 in a different form. Um. Not that I'm saying that 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:23.880 you're wrong, more of a clarification so that that people 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:27.039 understand it does a great clarification, because, yeah, the Internet 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:32.440 comprises so many different ways of sharing information email for example, 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:36.800 one way, file transfer protocol, another way using net us 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:41.880 net HTTP being the web based way of yea of 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:44.479 sharing information. And yeah, when we talk about deep webs, 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:47.120 some of this information is not necessarily the kind that 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:50.480 you would access with a normal web browser, right exactly. 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:52.400 So that's a good point. You might have to have 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:54.440 some sort of emulator, or you may have to have 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:56.520 a totally different kind of program in order to access 0:04:56.600 --> 0:04:59.480 that information, and that sort of leads into the second sense. 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:02.400 I think, yes, yes, So, so that first sense is 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:06.000 stuff that is no longer accessible, either due to machine 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:08.280 failures or the fact that just did not keep pace 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:12.279 with the protocols, or it was disconnected for a reason there. Yeah, 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:15.280 just though it is now its own intranet, but is 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:18.560 no longer connected to the Internet at any rate. That's 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:21.719 stuff that maybe at one time was connected to the Internet, 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:23.880 but now no longer is, and therefore you cannot get 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:26.040 to it. That's why we call it dark. That's that 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:29.800 one definition. Now here's the more super cool, awesome, spy 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:35.640 scary definition. Well, and in its purest sense, I would 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:39.640 say it's not spy or scary at all. Um. You 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:42.440 think about the depth and breadth of the Internet as 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:44.800 you see it on a search engine. You know, you 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:47.160 put in a search term, you get three hundred thousand 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:50.640 hits plus for for a topic, and you go, wow, 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:53.520 there's a whole lot of information out there. Well, that's 0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:58.279 only the information that the web browser that the search 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:00.640 engine knows to go to find. We call that the 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:06.480 surface web. Yeah, yeah, and it's overused as as a metaphor. 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:09.080 But the whole Iceberg thing really applies here. It is 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:14.960 really a very very small section of what's available on 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:17.120 the internet as a whole. Part of it's because that 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:19.839 that's what's available on the web, and there are other protocols. 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:24.080 It's not that Google, for example, is not searching. You know, 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:27.360 it's not necessarily collecting all the information that's on on 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:29.920 US net sites and things like that, so you may 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:33.160 or may not find the information that's out there. Uh 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:36.040 some people don't want their site indexed, and they can 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:38.080 choose not to just by putting in a little bit 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:41.200 of code at the top of their their their page. 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:46.480 It will It's essentially an instruction saying, hey, web crawlers, 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:49.520 skip the site. Yes, do not index this site that 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:52.520 I do not want an index and the web crawlers won't, 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:55.240 they'll ignore it, they'll move on. And so then you 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:57.760 have a website that is not indexed by any search 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:00.240 engine and the only way to get there or as 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:04.800 if there is another incoming link from somewhere else. Uh So, 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:08.599 so someone's build a website and they've gone outgoing link 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.960 to this other website that doesn't have any that's not 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:16.640 indexed by websites or web search engines rather or you 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:20.240 physically give out the U r L two people. Well, 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:23.440 and then then there's stuff that's dynamically generated, such as 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.640 the search engines results page such as, um, let's say 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:29.880 you go to your bank and you want to see, uh, 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:32.760 you know, the your balance on your account. You log 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:35.640 in and you you know, check the balance on your account. Well, 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:38.560 that page that you generate by logging in checking at 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:43.040 you know, to fourteen pm and twenty six seconds, that 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:46.760 page is not indexed by anything. So that is a 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:49.240 dark web, if you will. That's a dark web page 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:52.000 that you alone are accessing and no one else really 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:55.760 has access. So so dark web includes all these databases 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:59.720 that have have terabytes and terabytes and terabytes of data 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:05.320 that again will only appear in very specific sets of 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:10.000 circumstances and otherwise doesn't. So therefore they are not indexed. 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:13.240 Yauto bites even mostly just because I wanted to say, 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:15.840 y auto bites, Yes, there is such a thing. I'd 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:19.480 like to grab some yauta bytes after this podcast. Um 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:23.480 so yeah, I mean, and and it's purest sense, the 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:27.200 dark web, the invisible web, the invisible net. These are 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:30.840 things that that just aren't. They're hard to find. They're 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.560 not something that you're going to find simply by uh, 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:36.679 you know, surfing around or typing in a couple of 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:39.640 terms in the search engine. It's not gonna come up. Yeah. 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:42.600 So there there's a whole lot out there. I mean, um, 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:45.000 you know, I I use part of my website as 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:49.320 a sandbox just to test different technologies and play around 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:50.959 with it so I can learn more about it. And I, 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:53.800 you know, I put security access on it because I did. 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:56.000 I'm just fooling around, you know, I'm gonna type bladdy 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:58.760 bladdy bladdy blah. Who look at that. I could change 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:00.559 the fonts, I could, you know, And I want to 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:04.679 see what this under construction gift looks like on my site. Well, 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:08.080 you know, this looping middi is so much more awesome 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:12.560 than that looping middi. Wow, this browser totally still supports 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:15.120 that marquee tag. This is where Jonathan is clear that 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:21.480 Jonathan has not built a website since anyhow. Yes, that 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:23.440 is part of that all as part of the dark Web, 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:27.319 and and therefore there is nothing particularly sneaky. You have 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:29.520 very funny. Look. I was just I was just thinking 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:32.319 back to my oldest stinking back to actual websites I've 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:35.920 built back in. That's the problem. Alright, sorry so but 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:39.199 but um, you know, we did have somebody who was 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:42.720 asking about this, and we have not revealed your identity 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:47.720 dark web person. You're is safe with us deep web 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:51.160 anyway or her. Let's not narrow it down too much 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:57.839 him or her. So the thing is there is and 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:01.319 you think about it. Okay, I get it, but that's 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:05.079 not really all that interesting. It's not necessarily but people 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:11.080 are using the the inability to find this stuff, uh 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:15.000 to their advantage. They might be the hiding secret information 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:18.240 or you know, information that might get them in trouble 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:21.480 with the law, or they just don't like the idea 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:27.200 of companies, websites, governments being able to track all their movements. What. Yeah, 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:30.720 there are plenty of people this century, right Have they 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:33.719 talked to Mark Zuckerberg? Have they have privacy is a 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:38.040 thing of the path? They read George? Orwell, uh, there 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:42.800 it was, and look how far we've come the uh. Yeah. 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:46.280 The one of the concerns about using the Internet for 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:48.559 a lot of people is that a lot of the 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:53.160 stuff you do is trackable. There are records of what 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:54.560 you do. I mean, this has been in the news 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:58.120 recently because Google has changed this privacy policy where it's 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:01.520 going to be sharing the information that gathers across multiple 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:05.760 Google products in order to shape results for you personally, 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:10.240 which means that it's actually actively using your history of 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:14.240 navigating the web. Uh, and that freaks a lot of 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:18.400 people out. Yeah. Yeah, well, speaking of people want to 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:20.880 know the as of the day, we're recording this that 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:24.400 happened yesterday, March one, and uh, you know, people have 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:26.200 been making a big deal out of it ever since 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:28.599 Google had announced it, and plus plus they put it 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:30.240 on all those sites. There's a little banner at the 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:32.839 top seeing, uh, this stuff matters, which I thought was 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:35.040 kind of funny. And they actually make it easy for 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:37.160 you to look at what the history of your web 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:39.360 searching is, so that way you can choose to and 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:40.800 you can get rid of it. Yeah, you can choose 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:42.439 to delete it if you want, you can keep it. 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:46.760 I mean, the purpose of that, from Google's perspective is 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:49.960 to give you the best service possible. But there are 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:52.719 people who have brought up the concerns and I think 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:56.160 they're completely legitimate concerns that the fact that you have 0:11:56.640 --> 0:12:02.800 this history that's personalized and visualized to a very specific user. 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:06.959 That's troublesome because what happens if another entity comes in 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.240 that isn't concerned about giving you a great experience, but 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:12.920 it's more concerned about finding out exactly what you've been 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:17.160 up to for you know, a nefarious purpose. And uh, 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:19.319 and that might be that you could be a perfectly 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:25.040 innocent person and still have problems arise because there there's 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:28.320 this information about your habits when you're out there serving 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:31.000 the web or using the Internet in some way. And 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:36.240 so there are people who have used this, this part 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:39.720 of the web, this kind of idea of the uh. 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:45.199 This this anonymous, untrackable sort of web presence to be 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:49.959 able to navigate through without leaving a trail. And in 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:53.280 some cases it is to do something that is not 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:58.760 necessarily ethically uh in the green right. I mean it's 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:01.559 some stuff. Some of the stuff is really illegal, unethical, 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:05.800 nasty stuff. Yeah, well it's it's like everything else. You've 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:08.520 got the technology to do this. It can be used 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:11.079 for good. Pause, Yeah, if we're for good or bad. 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:15.680 Like for example, Google basically says when you sign up, hey, look, Jonathan, 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:18.720 just between you and us we're gonna collect this information, 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:21.719 and as a result of us collecting this information, we're 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:23.480 gonna be able to tailor this for you. We're not 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:25.719 gonna look at your records. We don't care where you go. 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:27.679 This is all gonna be stored on a computer in 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:30.040 between you and us. You'll get a really great experience. 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:32.959 And Jonathan may say, well, okay, I mean, hey, just 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:36.640 between me and you guys, I think we're good. You know, 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:38.480 I don't. I don't mind that you're you're collecting this 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:41.400 stuff because I want a positive experience. I want to 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:43.920 visit a site in my password, just to go in there, 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:47.120 and I'm blam, I'm right there. The thing is, what 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:50.360 if somebody breaks into the server, or what if they're there, 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:53.679 there's an unethical employee or or somebody who gets ticked 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:55.199 off at the company and says, you know what, I'm 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:58.920 going to steal some customers information and make this company's 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:02.000 life miserable by giving him bad pr I mean, it 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:05.440 could be used for something like that, although the company 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:07.319 may not necessarily be trying to do that. On the 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:09.760 flip side of that, uh, people might be saying, you 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:12.040 know what, I'm just uncomfortable with you having that information, 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:16.559 and the other people might be saying, I'm uncomfortable for 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:18.719 you having this information because I don't want to get 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:22.040 thrown in jail. So you know, there's a there's a 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:24.480 positive and a negative for all these things. Right, So 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:27.120 you've got you know, you've got people who are using 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:32.080 it to do stuff like pirate material. Yeah. So if 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:35.240 you created a database online and you did not have 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:40.080 any pointers to this site, so no web search engines 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:42.320 are going to be pulling up this site, and you 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:45.520 distribute the information some other way to the people that 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:49.200 you want to visit your site, then theoretically you could 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:53.360 host stuff and the the likelihood that you would get 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:56.760 caught would be lower. Right, So there are people who 0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:58.680 do this where you know, you hear about like the 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:01.160 big peer to peer network X and everything, because those 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:03.400 are the ones that get a lot of focus and 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:07.440 they are searchable. But then there are other ones that 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:10.280 are not searchable, and they there are plenty of them 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.440 that exist out there. It's still just as illegal to 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:19.640 use them, but they are they are evading detection more effectively. 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:23.360 I think. You know, the organizations that are concerned about 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:27.120 intellectual property have to make sure that they get the 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:29.760 services of people who are aware of the dark web 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:33.120 in order to be able to police that kind of stuff. Um. 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:37.160 But but there it's also used for things like a 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:41.920 journalist who might be overseas in a country that is 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:48.120 not so concerned about offering the press free speech as 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:51.120 other countries, and that journalists may want to be able 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:56.880 to publish reports that are unfavorable to a regime in 0:15:57.000 --> 0:16:00.800 that country, and using something like dark web in order 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:04.880 to get that information out could protect the journalists or 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:07.760 the journalist sources. So let's say like the journalist is 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:11.640 overseas talking to a government official UH and trying to 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:14.480 communicate with this government official who does not approve of 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:19.040 the regime's policies. Well, that official could very potentially be 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:24.440 at in serious danger for sharing the information. Using some 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:30.240 sort of untrackable anonymous UH software or doing this over 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:33.000 the web in a way that's not not searchable or 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:35.880 trackable would be very important in that case. And so 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:39.280 there are tools that are out there for people to use. 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:42.680 And again, just like Chris said, they're the tools are 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:45.720 are neutral. The tools are tools. Yeah, they're just tools. 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:49.520 But there are tools out there like me so like 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:52.440 free net that that's an example. Now we've talked about 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:55.680 free get before. UM it was some time ago, I 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:57.280 think about a year ago as a matter of fact, 0:16:57.280 --> 0:17:01.040 because we were talking about the UH using the internet 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:07.440 to communicate UM protests and other information in countries where 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:13.720 UH the government is aggressive about finding and punishing people 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:20.280 for UM speaking their mind in that country. UM. Of course, 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:23.119 we've over the last couple of years, we've had a 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:25.880 lot of that in many countries around the world, where 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:29.720 people are UM getting the word out about stuff that's 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:32.640 going on, people who are being jailed for being dissidents. UM. 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:36.119 People are trying to find ways to communicate with one another, 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:39.840 to establish protests. UM. The government is is watching the 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:44.320 law the the law enforcement authorities in that area are 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:46.399 are watching to see if they can crack down on 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:49.360 these protests to keep it from becoming worldwide, to keep 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:54.119 it from gathering more support. UM. So they these folks 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:59.719 are trying to find ways to share information without bringing 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:04.640 down the authorities on them, and software like free net 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:06.800 is is one way that they can do that. And 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:09.600 in fact, some people were setting up UH servers over 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:12.200 the past couple of years where people could speak their 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:16.960 mind and it wouldn't disclose their location, um, which and 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:20.000 a lot of people who were supporters of democracy for 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:25.400 these these uh governments that were not necessarily so democratic. Um, 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:27.399 you know, they were saying, oh, well, this is a 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:30.000 good thing. We're we're giving people an opportunity to speak 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:32.320 their mind, that we're giving them freedom of speech where 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:36.520 they had done before. Yeah. Another example is uh the 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:39.879 Onion router or tour. I've used that myself on my 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:41.720 own computer. As a matter of fact, you may you 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:44.200 may have heard of tour and tour is a part 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:47.879 of a project called Anonymity Online, and it's all about 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:53.080 being able to to access the Internet anonymously where there's 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:56.240 not going to be any tracking. Um. You have to 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:58.639 pair this with some other software sometimes depending on what 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:01.320 it is you're trying to do, but in general, what 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:04.080 it's trying what what it's its purposes is so that 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:06.840 you can go through and find out what you need 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:09.840 to find without leaving a trace of what you're doing, 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:12.560 which can be really important depending on what is like 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:15.600 maybe you're a whistleblower, Maybe you're in a huge company 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:19.280 and you've seen something that's truly unethical and you feel 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:21.920 it is your responsibility since you know about it to 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:24.080 reveal this, but you also know that if you do 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:28.080 this you could have some serious problems in your personal 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:30.720 life further down the line. Well, that's sort of the 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:33.200 kind of tool you might want to look into if 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:36.040 you were to do such a thing. Right. So, the 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:38.240 way Tour does it is kind of interesting. They do 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:42.040 it through a distributed network, So distributed networks, you know, 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:43.639 we talked about it again, it's kind of similar to 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:46.280 peer to peer networks. Well in in in a way 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:49.199 it's it's a lot of Uh, it has some similarity 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:54.960 to the people who are conducting hacker attacks because as 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:57.200 we again, another thing that we've talked about on on 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:01.639 occasion is how, um it can be difficult to trace 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:04.480 exactly where an attack comes from, or it can be 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:09.240 possible to spoof another address, say, you know, make it 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:13.360 appear as though an attack is coming from a country 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:15.920 to go you know, hey, they're the ones doing it, Yeah, 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:19.359 China's attacking us. And then if you were to really 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:22.800 look at you might realize that, uh, the attackers came 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:25.440 from a totally different country, but they had spoofed it, 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:28.320 or they had created a zombie army where they had 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:31.760 infected computers within China, So the attacks were coming from China, 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:34.719 It's just they were being masterminded from computers that were 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:37.280 in a totally different country. Yeah's the tricky thing about 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:41.119 computers is that, uh, it's it's entirely possible for you 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:44.160 to be able to cover your tracks or to off 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:46.960 you skate where you are working from and make it 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:50.520 appear that someone else, some patsy, is really the one 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:55.200 in charge of the actual attack. Well, tour works works 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:58.400 in a similar fashion to that, basically uses this array 0:20:58.480 --> 0:21:01.920 of servers to mask your location. Right. So, so the 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:04.840 way the way it works normally with Internet traffic is 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:06.960 that if I'm sending, if I'm seeing a request to 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:10.040 a server for me to get let's just say a 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:13.440 web page back, then that request is going to go 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:17.200 out and pack it across the Internet with a header 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:19.920 and a footer that gives the information about where it's going. 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:22.959 And then once it gets to where it is, it's 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:26.840 the request gets received, the server response sends it back 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:29.920 my way, not necessarily in the same pathway that my 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:33.000 request went, uh, and then it gets to my machine. 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:34.760 My machine puts it all together, and then I can 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:39.680 look at the web page the Tour Each jump from 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:45.040 one UH server to one machine to another is is unique, 0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:48.240 and it's it's unique to that like the the information 0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:50.920 is unique to that jump. So that UH, when I 0:21:51.080 --> 0:21:53.800 send my request out, it goes to a server on 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:56.560 the Tour network. Server on the Tour network doesn't know 0:21:56.760 --> 0:21:59.000 that it needs to go to the specific destination. It 0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:01.560 just knows that it has to send this request to 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:06.000 a second server it's that's in the Tour network. So 0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:08.480 that request goes to that server within the Tour network. 0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:11.640 Now that that server doesn't know where the request originated from. 0:22:12.240 --> 0:22:14.040 It knows that it got it from server number one, 0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:16.240 but it doesn't know who sent the request to server 0:22:16.400 --> 0:22:19.359 number one, Right, So server number two is like, all right, well, 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:21.359 server number one sent this to me, I'm supposed to 0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:23.919 send it to server number three, goes to server number three. 0:22:23.960 --> 0:22:26.399 Server number three doesn't know about server number one. It 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:28.760 just knows that a request came from server number two. 0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:31.879 It definitely doesn't know about you who sent the request 0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:33.520 in the first place. And it does this all the 0:22:33.560 --> 0:22:35.359