1 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: On this episode of New World. Author, screenwriter, philanthropist, journalist, 2 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: and broadcaster Mitch Album is an inspiration around the world. 3 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: Album is the author of numerous books of fiction and nonfiction, 4 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: which have collectively sold more than forty million copies in 5 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: forty eight languages worldwide. He's written eight number one New 6 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 1: York Times bestsellers, including Tuesdays with Maury, the best selling 7 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: memoir of all time, which topped the list for four 8 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: stray years and celebrated its twenty fifth anniversary on twenty 9 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 1: twenty two. He's also written award winning TV films, stage plays, screenplays, 10 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 1: a nationally syndicated newspaper column, and a musical. He appeared 11 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: for more than twenty years in ESPN and was a 12 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: fixture on the sports reporters through his work at the 13 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: Detroit Free Press. He was inducted into both the National 14 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: Sports Media Association and Michigan Sports Hall of Fame, and 15 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: was the recipient of the Redsmith Award for Lifetime achievement. 16 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 1: So with that introduction, I am really pleased to welcome 17 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: my guest, Mitch Album, and he's joining us to discuss 18 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,839 Speaker 1: his new novel, The Little Liar, which is now available 19 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 1: in bookstores everywhere. Mitch, welcome and thank you for joining 20 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: me on New World. 21 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 2: That's a pleasure. Thank you for having me on. How 22 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 2: did you get into writing accidentally? 23 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 3: I was a musician and that's all I ever really 24 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 3: wanted to be. Never wrote anything while I was in 25 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 3: high school or college. I just wanted to work in 26 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 3: the music business, and I did that for a few 27 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 3: years in New York. Wasn't really getting anywhere and worked 28 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 3: at nights mostly, and so during the day I had 29 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 3: time free. And I was in a supermarket one day 30 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 3: and picked up one of those giveaway newspapers that they 31 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 3: have there, and they had a little thing in the 32 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 3: bottom right corner that said, we could use some help 33 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 3: with our newspaper if you have time. And since I 34 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 3: had some time, I went down there, and I think 35 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 3: I was the youngest person in the office by about 36 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 3: seventy years, and they gave me an assignment that night, 37 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 3: and I'd never written anything, and they gave me an 38 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 3: assignment to cover a parking meter's hearing. And all I 39 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 3: knew about journalism was all the president's men, which I 40 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 3: had seen, like a lot of other people in the movies, 41 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,399 Speaker 3: And so I got myself a pad and a pen, 42 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 3: and I went there and asked a lot of direct questions, 43 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 3: and then I guess I had just read a lot 44 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 3: of newspapers in my life, and I knew that you 45 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 3: start with that sort of general paragraph that sums it up, 46 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 3: and then you have a quote, and then you expand it. 47 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 2: So I wrote the story, and the next. 48 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 3: Week when I went back to the supermarket, I picked 49 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 3: up the little paper that they gave out, and there 50 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 3: was my story on the bottom of the front page 51 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 3: and had my name on it. And I got that 52 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 3: little tingled in my stomach, and I've been a writer 53 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 3: ever since. 54 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 1: How did your family react to your name in print? 55 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 3: Well, my father always wanted me to be a lawyer 56 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 3: or a doctor, and so he hated the idea that 57 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 3: I was going to be a musician. And he tolerated 58 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 3: it because he loved me and he was a good 59 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 3: man and a good father. And then after a few 60 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 3: years I said to him, you know, I think I'm 61 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 3: going to get out of the music business. And I 62 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 3: could see he was trying to hide the smile on 63 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 3: his face, and he said, well, all right, if you 64 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 3: feel that that's the right thing, you know, what are 65 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 3: you thinking of going into and I said writing, and 66 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 3: he said writing, that's the fire to the frying band. 67 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 3: And so he wasn't too crazy about it for the 68 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 3: first few years, but eventually he came around, and I 69 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 3: think eventually by the time I was writing a newspaper 70 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 3: column and then wrote a book, he thought, it's maybe 71 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 3: he'll be able to make something of himself. 72 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: I have to ask you before we leave your famed 73 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: musical career. You played in the Lucky Tiger Grease Stick band. Yeah, 74 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: do you want to tell us all a little bit 75 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: about I think this was in high school, wasn't it. 76 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 2: In high school? It was like a Shana Nah band. 77 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 3: We greased our hair back and we sang the songs 78 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 3: of the nineteen fifties and the early sixties and do 79 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 3: wop music, you know, and it was a lot of fun. 80 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 3: We played all around high schools and bands and concerts, 81 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 3: and I never had to worry about dancing in high 82 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 3: school because I was always playing in the band, you know, 83 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 3: which there was an easier way to meet girls than 84 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 3: asking them to dance. And many years later, when I 85 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 3: got out of music, just to put full circle on it, 86 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 3: I joined a band of writers with Stephen King and 87 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 3: Dave Barry and Amy Tan and Ridley Pearson, Scott Tureau, 88 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 3: James McBride, kind of a who's who of a lot 89 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 3: of writers. And we've been together now for twenty five 90 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 3: years and honestly new this band is worse than my 91 00:04:57,720 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 3: high school band. 92 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: So so it performs below the standard of the Lucky 93 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: Tiger Grease Stick band. 94 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, exactly, Yes, that's hysterical. 95 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 1: Now. I have to say one of the things I 96 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 1: was intrigued by you actually ended up in Crete playing 97 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: in a taverna as its singing Elvis Presley and Ray 98 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 1: Charles songs. What was that like? I would think it 99 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: must be pretty wild. 100 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 3: Well, I ended up there quite by accident. And I 101 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 3: was over in Europe after college and doing the backpacking 102 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,479 Speaker 3: thing before I came back to New York to try 103 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 3: my life as a musician, and I ended up in Athens. 104 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 3: I entered an ad for a piano player wanted on 105 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 3: Resort Island and didn't even know what it was. And 106 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 3: they gave me a plane ticket and flew me over 107 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,919 Speaker 3: to Crete. And I walked into the place and the 108 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 3: guy said to me, are you the piano player? I said, yeah, 109 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 3: I said, sit down, start playing. I didn't have any music. 110 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 3: I didn't have anything, and I just sat down at 111 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 3: this piano and started playing piano, which I could do. 112 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 3: And then after he listened to me for a little while, 113 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 3: he took me down to Verner, the nightclub, to negotiate 114 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 3: the deal. And while we were there, he said, can 115 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 3: you sing? And I said, well, I could sing, and 116 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 3: he said, well, go sing with the band and I said, 117 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 3: I can't sing Greek music. He said, just go sing 118 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 3: with the band, or you know, I'm not going to 119 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 3: give you the job. And so I went to the 120 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 3: guy at the band and whispered in his area. I said, 121 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 3: do you know any American rock and roll music? And 122 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 3: he said Elvis Brizzidy and I said, yeah, okay, Elvis Presy. 123 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,160 Speaker 3: He says blue sweit Choose. I said, okay, I can 124 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 3: do blues sweit choos. And you know, the lights were off, 125 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 3: and you know that song kind of starts cold, you know, 126 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 3: without any music. So it was like one, two, three, 127 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 3: and then the lights go up and I go one 128 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 3: for the money, two for the show, like that, and everybody's. 129 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 2: Mouth just dropped open. For about the next three minutes. 130 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 3: I became Elvis Presley, and I was kind of swinging 131 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 3: around the whole club. 132 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 2: And dancing and everything. 133 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 3: And by the time I finished, I got a standing 134 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 3: ovation and the nightclub owner said, I'm hiring you as 135 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 3: my singer and my piano player. 136 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 2: And I got the job. 137 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 3: And I was there for about seven months, and if 138 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 3: I was smart, I would have just stayed there the 139 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 3: rest of my life, But like a fool, I wanted 140 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 3: to get back to New York so I could starve. 141 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 2: What was life in Creek like, Oh, it's magical. 142 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 3: First, well, back then, Crete wasn't developed like it is now. 143 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 3: And I was near this fishing village called Agios Nikolaus, 144 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 3: and I used to be able to ride a bicycle 145 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 3: into town or run into town. And then I just 146 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 3: stand on the corner by the fishing area there where 147 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 3: everybody was in their boats. And they knew me because 148 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 3: you know how many guys on the island of Crete 149 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 3: in that corner of it sing Elvis Presley music. And 150 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 3: so they would pull up in cards and say, oh, hello, elders, 151 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 3: get in the car, Come on, I give you a ride, 152 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 3: do you know, And so I was like the king 153 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 3: of the island. You know, everybody knew me, and the 154 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 3: food was fantastic, the water was you know, turquoise blue, 155 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 3: and the people could not have been nicer. 156 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 2: And many years later, you. 157 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 3: Know this new book I wrote, The Little Iris, set 158 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 3: in Greece, and part of the reason is because I 159 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 3: lived there when I was younger, and I knew a 160 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 3: lot about it and wanted to set a story there. 161 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 1: You really had quite an eclectic early part of your life. 162 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 3: I did, and then I ended up a sports writer, 163 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 3: which has nothing to do with any of it. 164 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: Did you love sports? 165 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 3: No? Not, particularly when I got into journalism. After I 166 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 3: worked at that volunteer paper that they gave out in supermarkets. 167 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 3: That helped me get into Columbia Journalism School in New 168 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 3: York City. And while I was there, I needed to 169 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 3: pay my tuition. I was working as a piano player 170 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 3: at night, you know, trying to pay my tuition, and 171 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 3: they had a job at the Sport magazine and so 172 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 3: I went over there and I you know, started writing. 173 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 3: And then when I graduated, I wanted to get into 174 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 3: magazine writing. You know, I wanted to be like Tom Wolfe. 175 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 3: I wanted to write long, big magazine pieces. But all 176 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 3: my clips were sports clips, and so every time I 177 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 3: would apply for a job, they would end up giving 178 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 3: them over to the sports editor and saying, hey, this 179 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:35,319 Speaker 3: guy writes sports. 180 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 2: And so eventually I ended up. 181 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 3: Getting offered a job as a sports writer in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, 182 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 3: and I thought, well, I need the job, I'll take it. 183 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 2: And I've been in sports ever since. 184 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 3: And I found that I could actually write a lot 185 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 3: of human stories, a lot of stories about pathos and 186 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 3: emotion and things in the sports world because it's a 187 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 3: great backdrop. 188 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:57,439 Speaker 2: You know, you've got victory. 189 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 3: And defeat, and you know people working their whole life 190 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 3: for ten seconds. And it turned out to be a 191 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 3: great training field for the kind of writing I would 192 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 3: end up doing later. 193 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: While you were doing that, as I understand it, you 194 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: encountered Maury Schwartz, who was a former college professor who 195 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 1: was dying of als or lou Gerrigg's disease. What led 196 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: you to decide to write Tuesdays with Maury? 197 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 3: You know, it wasn't really a book thing, to be 198 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 3: honest with you, Maury was an old college professor of 199 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 3: mine who I was very close with in college. I mean, 200 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 3: he wasn't just a guy I took a class with 201 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 3: I took every class he offered. I majored in sociology 202 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 3: because of him. We were kind of like an uncle 203 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 3: and a nephew. Really, you know, we sat around campus 204 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 3: and ate together. I went to his home, and then 205 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 3: when I graduated, you know, I promised I would stay 206 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 3: in touch, and then I didn't, you know, became very 207 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 3: self absorbed and very ambitious and working my way up 208 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 3: the sports writing ladder, and I just sort of forgot 209 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 3: about him. 210 00:09:58,040 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 2: Shame on me. 211 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 3: And then sixteen years later I saw him accidentally on 212 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 3: Nightline with Ted Copple, talking about what it was like 213 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 3: to die from Luke Garritt's disease. That's the only way 214 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 3: I found out that he was even sick, and so 215 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 3: I was very embarrassed by that, and I called him 216 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 3: up and figuring I would just make one call to 217 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 3: ease my conscience, and one call led to a visit. 218 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 3: I figured one visit would ease my conscience. And the 219 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 3: first visit was so unbelievable. You know, he was so 220 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,199 Speaker 3: calm about dying, and he was so content with how 221 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,680 Speaker 3: he had lived his life that when I flew home 222 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 3: that night, I realized, like he was seventy eight and dying, 223 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 3: and I was thirty seven and perfectly healthy, and he 224 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 3: seemed more content with his life than I was. So 225 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 3: I began to go back the next Tuesday, the next Tuesday, 226 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 3: next Tuesday, and all the tuesdays he had left in 227 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 3: his life to try to find out what he knew 228 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 3: about life that I didn't. And the book only came 229 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 3: about as an accident because he told me one time 230 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 3: that the thing he feared the most wasn't a disease 231 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 3: and wasn't anything physical. It was that he was going 232 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 3: to die and leave his family all this debt, because 233 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 3: he was in debt for all his medical bills for 234 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 3: dying for two years. 235 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 2: And so he said, I'm going to die twice. 236 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 3: First time I die, and then on the other side 237 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 3: of the grave, when I realized, my family's going to 238 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 3: have to sell their house and I'm going to be 239 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 3: the cause of it. And so I only got the 240 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 3: idea then to maybe write a book to help him 241 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:20,959 Speaker 3: pay his medical bills. And I privately went around to 242 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 3: all these different publishers in New York trying to find 243 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 3: somebody who was interested in it, and I said, I 244 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:27,959 Speaker 3: just need enough money to pay his bills. I think 245 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 3: it's really interesting story an old man talking to a 246 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 3: young man about what's important in life, right before he dies. 247 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 3: And everybody said, no, everybody boring. You're a sports writer. 248 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 3: It's depressing. Nobody's going to want to read it. And 249 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 3: I honestly I would have given up newt if it 250 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 3: was for me, because I had so many no's, But 251 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 3: because it was for him, I kept pushing and pushing 252 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 3: until I found one publisher who was willing to publish it, 253 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 3: and just a few weeks before Maury died, they agreed 254 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 3: to do it, and I was able to go to 255 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 3: Maury and tell him give him the money to pay 256 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 3: his medical bills. And I said, here, you don't have 257 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 3: to die twice, you know, once is enough for me. 258 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 3: I always said that was the end of Tuesdays with more, 259 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 3: because I had finally learned to do one nice thing, 260 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 3: you know, for this man who had done so many 261 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,679 Speaker 3: nice things for me before that. But of course, then 262 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 3: after he passed away, I wrote the book very simply. 263 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 3: I was figuring to go back to my sports writing career, 264 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 3: and they printed twenty thousand copies of it total. I 265 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 3: thought i'd have them in the trunk of my car 266 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 3: for the rest of my life, you know, giving them 267 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:31,959 Speaker 3: out to people when they drove. Hey you want to book, 268 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 3: you know, come by for Christmas and empty out my trunk. 269 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 3: And it just caught on in some way and got 270 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 3: bigger and bigger and bigger. But it was totally an accident. 271 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 3: But that book sort of made you, oh yeah, well 272 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 3: that only made me. It turned my life around. I mean, 273 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 3: you know, I was an ambitious, one hundred hour a week, 274 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 3: you know, sports writer, and from that point forward, instead 275 00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 3: of people coming up to me and saying, Hey, Who's 276 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 3: going to win Super Bowl, they would come up and say, 277 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 3: my mother died of cancer. And the last thing we 278 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 3: did was read Tuesdays with Maury Together. Can I talk 279 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,439 Speaker 3: to you about it? You know, and your reaction is 280 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 3: quite different than Who's going to win the Super Bowl? 281 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 3: And you start to realize the pain that people walk 282 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 3: around with every day and every airport and every place 283 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 3: you're meeting them. Someone's missing, somebody, mourning for somebody, grieving 284 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 3: for somebody, worried about somebody. And I heard so many 285 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 3: of these stories and my world began to revolve around 286 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 3: that kind of thing. And I never wrote a sports book. Again, 287 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 3: everything I've written since has really kind of been a derivative, 288 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 3: even fictionally, of the lessons I learned and Tuesdays with Maury. 289 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: Even though that was a huge success, it took you 290 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: six years to write your next book. 291 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 3: Well, I was kind of frozen because all the people 292 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 3: who didn't want Tuesdays with Maury now all they wanted 293 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 3: was Wednesdays with Maury, you know, chicken Soup with Maury 294 00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 3: and Venus and Mars and Maury and you. 295 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 2: Know like that. 296 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 3: And I said, oh no, I'm not going to do that. 297 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 3: You know, I don't want to turn it into a franchise. 298 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 3: And you know, everything that happened, I wrote, there's nothing 299 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 3: else to say about that book, and well, come up 300 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 3: with something, and so finally I said, well, I think 301 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 3: maybe I'll try a novel. 302 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,439 Speaker 2: And they said, oh no, that's a stupid idea. That's 303 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 2: a terrible idea. 304 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 3: No, no, no, you know everybody who writes nonfiction thinks 305 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 3: they can write a novel and don't do it. I said, well, 306 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 3: but yeah, but you said the same thing about Tuesdays 307 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 3: with Maury. 308 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 2: You said that was a stupid idea too. 309 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 3: So I think fortunately because I had been rejected once before, 310 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 3: I wasn't afraid to go up against the rejection the 311 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 3: second time. 312 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 2: And I knew in my heart that I would. 313 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 3: Never find a subject that would please Tuesdays with Moury fans. 314 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 3: If it was a nonfiction subject, they would all say, well, 315 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 3: whoever this guy is, isn't as interesting as Maury. So 316 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 3: I just went the other way and wrote a novel 317 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 3: about a man who dies and goes to heaven and 318 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 3: meets five people from his life. And it was called 319 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 3: The Five People You Meet in Heaven And not would. 320 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 3: It became a really really successful book, and my career 321 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 3: as a fiction writer was created. 322 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: Haven't written a fandom of books myself to launch two 323 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: consecutive New York Times bestsellers, one in fiction one and nonfiction. 324 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: That's really pretty remarkable. 325 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think if I had thought about it, I 326 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 3: probably would have been too scared to do it. But 327 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 3: you know what they say about when you're younger and 328 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 3: taking chances, you're not afraid of what you might lose, 329 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 3: And so I thought, well, what do I got to lose? 330 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 2: And it worked out. 331 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: Christmas is coming and it's never too early to think 332 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: about what would make the perfect gift for your children 333 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: and grandchildren this Christmas. I recommend you order LUs the 334 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: Elephant seven book series and plush toy from our Gingwish 335 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: three sixties store. Elis the Elephant teaches children lessons of 336 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: America's founding and what makes our country exceptional. It's the 337 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: perfect Christmas gift for little patriots. Order your seven book 338 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: series and plush toy today by going to ginglishtree sixty 339 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: dot com slash store. That's ginglishtree sixty dot com slash store. 340 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: So then you came back with for One More Day, 341 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 1: which actually debuted at number one on the New York 342 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: Times list and spend nine months on the list. What 343 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: triggered that? Why did you write One More Day? 344 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 3: I used to talk to my mother periodically when I 345 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 3: was writing in the mornings. You know, I'd pick up 346 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 3: the phone if I had a little break and with 347 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 3: just dollar number. And you know, my mom we had 348 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 3: a great relationship and she's really encouraging to me. You know, 349 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 3: she was the opposite of what my dad. You know, well, 350 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 3: my dad said, don't be a writer, don't be writer. 351 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 3: My mother said, you do whatever you want to do. 352 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 3: If it's going to make you happy. 353 00:16:59,000 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 2: Do it. 354 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 3: I thought to myself, one day, I'm not going to 355 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 3: be able to, you know, make this call, like what 356 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 3: will be like if she's not here? And I said, 357 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 3: I know what I'm going to feel. I'm going to say, like, 358 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 3: oh no, just give me one more day back, and 359 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 3: I'll say everything that I should have said. 360 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 2: And so I. 361 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 3: Wrote a book about a guy who loses his mother 362 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 3: and his life kind of goes downhill, becomes alcoholic, and 363 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 3: you know, kind of goes back to his hometown, little 364 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 3: hometown where he grew up to kill himself and he fails. 365 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 3: And when the son comes up, he goes back to 366 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 3: his old abandoned house, having failed even a killing himself, 367 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 3: and walks into the house and discovers his mother's living 368 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 3: in it as if nothing ever happened, as if she 369 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 3: never died, and she's making him breakfast and he gets 370 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 3: this full day, one full day back on earth with her, 371 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 3: and he's able to sort of say all the things 372 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 3: that he didn't and kind of figure out how his 373 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 3: life went wrong, and she sort of helps him. 374 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 2: And it ended up being. 375 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 3: Ironically the last book that my mother read, because she 376 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 3: suffered stroke right after that and couldn't read or talk 377 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 3: anymore after it, so I was glad that I dedicated 378 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 3: it to her, and the timing of it worked out 379 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 3: to be the right thing. 380 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: What's fascinating about your career is, in addition to writing 381 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: both fiction and nonfiction, you've had four of your books 382 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:17,479 Speaker 1: turned into movies. 383 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. 384 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 3: That's an interesting experience, especially when you're one of the characters. 385 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 3: Oprah Winfrey made a movie out of Tuesdays with Maury, 386 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 3: and she invited me to come to the set, and 387 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 3: I said okay, And I went there one day and 388 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 3: they were filming a scene and I looked at it 389 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 3: and it was like they had recreated Maury's office and 390 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 3: there was Jack Lemon playing Maury and Hanka's Area was 391 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 3: playing me. And I got there just as they were 392 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 3: about to film this scene and they said, you know, 393 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 3: all right, everybody quiet, you know, action, And I heard 394 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 3: Jack Lemon saying, well, Mitch, you know, this is what 395 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 3: happens when you die, Mitch all these lines that were 396 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 3: from the book. And it was surreal, because, you know, 397 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 3: it was like watching my own life right in front 398 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 3: of me, you know, with two actors who I knew 399 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 3: very well. All of a sudden, they were using our names, 400 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 3: and one of them looked a lot like Maury, and 401 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 3: you know, they made Jack Lemon up to look like 402 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 3: Moury and I never went back to the set, you know, 403 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 3: like it was kind of spooky. 404 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 2: But they did a great job. 405 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 3: And Jack Lemon ended up winning the Emmy for that 406 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:19,679 Speaker 3: and Hank his area and the movie and all that. 407 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 3: And I remember Jack Lemon when he got nominated for 408 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,880 Speaker 3: the Emmy. I called him up and I said, congratulations. 409 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,199 Speaker 3: You know, I think you're going to win because you 410 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 3: did a great job. And he said, thank you, thank you. 411 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 3: Then I teased him and I said, just remember if 412 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,160 Speaker 3: you win, don't forget the writer, because they always forget 413 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 3: the writer. You know, they thanked their dog catcher and 414 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 3: they thanked the woman next door or whatever they do. 415 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,400 Speaker 3: And he said, okay, okay, okay. And so of course 416 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 3: he ends up winning. And when he went up to 417 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 3: make his acceptance speech, the first thing he said was, 418 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 3: you know, I spoke to Mitch Album months ago about 419 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 3: this and he said, don't forget the writer. 420 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 2: So I'm going to say it thanks to him. You 421 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,360 Speaker 2: know this we wouldn't have had any of this if 422 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 2: not for him. So it was very, very very sweet. 423 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: You know. 424 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 3: That was my first experience in your movies, your books 425 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 3: becoming movies. And then they made one out of the 426 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 3: Five People You Meet in Heaven, which I wrote, and 427 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 3: that was a surreal experience because these things that are 428 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 3: in your imagination, like I had. There was an amusement 429 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 3: park was the backdrop of the book, and I created 430 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 3: the whole amusement park from my imagination. And then you 431 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 3: walk onto this set that they built and it looks 432 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 3: just like your imagination made it look, only they created 433 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 3: it from scratch. You know, the name of the pier, 434 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 3: the rides, all the rest of it, which are things 435 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 3: I made up, and it's right in front of you. So, 436 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 3: as I say, it's sort of a surreal thing to 437 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 3: see something come to life in a movie. 438 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 1: Was it a challenge to take fiction that you had 439 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: written and then turn it into a script. 440 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 3: From shooting script, it is, you have to lose most 441 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 3: of it. People don't realize, you know how deep a 442 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 3: book is. People always saying the movie wasn't like the book. 443 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 3: And I always say, if you made the movie exactly 444 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:58,679 Speaker 3: like the book, like each scene that you have in 445 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 3: the book was actually seen in the movie. The dialogue 446 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 3: in the book was the dialogue, the movie would be 447 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,640 Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty hours long. So most of what 448 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 3: you do is just cut and you cut, and you cut, 449 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 3: and you cut and you cut, and then you really 450 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 3: have to get down to the essence of what the 451 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 3: book was about. And I think in some cases other 452 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 3: people can do that better than you can. 453 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:17,160 Speaker 2: I wrote three of my movies. 454 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 3: We have some other ones that are being done now, 455 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 3: and I'm just as comfortable with somebody else writing it 456 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 3: because it's really kind of a different thing. 457 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: I'm currently watching a series called The Offer, which is 458 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: the making of The Godfather, and Pujo, who'd written this 459 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: extraordinary book, has the same problem because they hire him 460 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: to write the movie script. He's never written a movie script, 461 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: and he doesn't know how to do it. And it's 462 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: fascinating to watch have that whole sense of the complexity 463 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: of As one of the guys said, this is about 464 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: a series of snapshots. You know, you got to go 465 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,120 Speaker 1: through the book and figure out the right snapshots, because 466 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:53,199 Speaker 1: that's all you got time for. 467 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,199 Speaker 3: I'll tell you something that John Voight played Eddie in 468 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 3: The Tuesdays with Maury, and he taught me a great 469 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 3: lesson once like that. I had written a scene very 470 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 3: much like the scene in the book where he confronts 471 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 3: his father in heaven and his father isn't talking to him, 472 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 3: and he says something to him, you know, like talk 473 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 3: to me, Dad, you know, come on, dad, talk to me, 474 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 3: you know, forgive me Dad, And John Boyd says to me, 475 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 3: can I ask you something? I said, yeah, I said, 476 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 3: why do you have me saying this three times? I said, because, 477 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 3: you know, like I did in the book, it's really important. 478 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 3: He says, let me say it once and I'll do 479 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 3: the rest on my face, And I thought, uh, that's 480 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 3: the difference between movies. 481 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: That's really good. That is a great line which I 482 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: will keep now. Beyond all of this, which is really 483 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: quite amazing, you also became a playwright, which has its 484 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: own kind of discipline and rules and things that are 485 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 1: different than either a movie or a book. 486 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, much different playwrights. That's where you want to go 487 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 3: if you want to feel important, because the writer is king. 488 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 2: In the stage world. The writer is just accessory. 489 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 3: In the movie world, you're lucky if you get invited 490 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 3: to the screening. But in the playworld, the playwrights words 491 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 3: are you know, first of all, it's all about dialogue. 492 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 3: And I had great opportunity to write the play of 493 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 3: Tuesdays with Maury with Jeffrey Hatcher. I didn't know anything 494 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 3: about writing plays at that point, but I had learned 495 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 3: from him and from some other good play rights. They 496 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 3: said that Herb Gardner, the wonderful playwright of a Thousand 497 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 3: Clowns and other people like that. He took me in 498 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 3: and kind of became a mentor, and he said to me, 499 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 3: all of theater is about somebody wants something from somebody else. 500 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 3: Just synthesize it down to somebody wants something from somebody else, 501 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 3: and that's the essence of every great play and everything. 502 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 2: And I've always kept that in. 503 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 3: Mind when I wrote Tuesdays with Maury with Jeffrey Hatcher, 504 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 3: and then I wrote a number of plays afterwards as 505 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 3: a result of it. And it's a very dialogue heavy thing. 506 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,719 Speaker 3: You know, nobody cares. You don't write what something smells like, 507 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 3: or what the wall looks like or anything like that. 508 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 3: It's just people talking, and that's its own kind of discipline, 509 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 3: own set of rules. 510 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 1: Just further expand your amazing range of talent. You're also 511 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: a songwriter and lyricist. 512 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,400 Speaker 3: Well, that goes back to my music days. I wasn't 513 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,360 Speaker 3: very successful when I was trying to be a musician. 514 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,919 Speaker 3: But when you don't try and you get into some 515 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 3: other field, suddenly you find out like musicians like hanging 516 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 3: out with writers. And I ended up befriending a lot 517 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 3: of guys through our terrible band that I've told you about, 518 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 3: the rock Bottom Remainders, including Warren Zevon, a guy who 519 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,639 Speaker 3: did were Wolves of London and all the rest of it, 520 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 3: and he ended up asking me to write him a 521 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 3: song one time, which I did and he recorded it. 522 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 3: I've ended up having songs and movies that I've done, 523 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,360 Speaker 3: and I've had much more success as a musician once 524 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,360 Speaker 3: I decided not to be one than I had when 525 00:24:46,400 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 3: I was trying to be one. 526 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: Your newest book is very very timely in that The 527 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,160 Speaker 1: Little Liar is the first one you've done set during 528 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: the Holocaust. Why did you decide to write about the Holocaust? 529 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,640 Speaker 3: Well, I didn't really decide to write about the Holocaust. 530 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 3: I wanted to write about truth. And the book is 531 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,399 Speaker 3: narrated by the voice of Truth. It begins with you 532 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 3: know you can trust the story you're about to hear. 533 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,679 Speaker 3: You can trust it, because I'm the only thing in 534 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 3: this world you can trust. 535 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 2: I am truth. 536 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,719 Speaker 3: And it tells the story of a little eleven year 537 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,880 Speaker 3: old boy living in Greece who's never told a lie 538 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 3: in his life and a little girl in his village 539 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 3: who loves him, and when the Nazis invaded, they find 540 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,439 Speaker 3: out about his honesty and they decide to use it 541 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 3: as a weapon, and they trick him into standing on 542 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,400 Speaker 3: the railroad tracks and telling the people who get into 543 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,120 Speaker 3: the trains that they're going to someplace good and new. 544 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 2: They're going to have jobs and homes and. 545 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 3: Everything's going to be fine, and thinking that he's telling 546 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 3: the truth and that if he does this, they'll let 547 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 3: him go back to his family. He does this for 548 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 3: a couple of weeks until on the very last train 549 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 3: he sees his family and this little girl that he 550 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 3: loves shoved into the box car, and he finds out 551 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 3: that these trains are actually going to Auschwitz and the 552 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 3: concentration camps, and he realizes that the first lie he's 553 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 3: ever told in his life is going to be the 554 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,120 Speaker 3: worst lie he's ever going to tell in his life. 555 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 3: And the book follows him and the girl that he loves, 556 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,120 Speaker 3: and his family and even the Nazi who tricked him 557 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 3: for the next forty years, and shows the ramifications of 558 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 3: that one lie on all their lives, how it changed him, 559 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 3: the girl, the family, the Nazi. And it's kind of 560 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:47,119 Speaker 3: a parable about truth and forgiveness because he spends the 561 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 3: rest of his life trying to be forgiven for what 562 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,199 Speaker 3: he was tricked into doing, and his family tries to 563 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,360 Speaker 3: find him, and so does the girl to forgive him, 564 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 3: but their lives have so changed that you know, it 565 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 3: takes decades for them to find each other again. Didn't 566 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 3: really set out to write something about the Holocaust or 567 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 3: even about events of today, but it turns out that 568 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 3: it's pertinent to both. 569 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: You put the book in Greece. Why'd you pick Greece? 570 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 3: Well, as I told you, I lived there for a 571 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,479 Speaker 3: period of time as a nightclub singer and a piano player, 572 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 3: and so I knew more about Greece, probably than the 573 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 3: average guy who lives in Detroit does, which is where 574 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 3: I live. And a lot of people don't realize that 575 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 3: the Nazis even invaded Greece, that the Holocaust came there, 576 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 3: and they certainly don't realize that Thessalonica, which is a 577 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,360 Speaker 3: city where I set the book, was actually the largest 578 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:40,120 Speaker 3: majority Jewish population of any city in Europe. Everybody thinks 579 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 3: it would be in Poland, or in France or something 580 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 3: not true. Thessalonica had close to like thirty seven percent 581 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 3: was Jewish before the war, and within three years was 582 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,880 Speaker 3: wiped out, just totally eliminated. And I thought, if I can, 583 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty three tell a story about the hollow 584 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,360 Speaker 3: cost that people didn't know, it only goes to show 585 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 3: you how vast and awful that event was, and that 586 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 3: there's still things that we need to be hearing about, 587 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 3: even at a time when there's very few people left 588 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 3: alive to be able to share those stories. 589 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: It's amazing. And I think the way in which you 590 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:22,160 Speaker 1: have the whole story narrated by truth itself, it really 591 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: does in some ways take you back to Tuesdays with 592 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: Maury and the whole notion of seeking a larger meaning 593 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 1: and seeking something like truth and love which transcends normal 594 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 1: human behavior. 595 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,959 Speaker 3: Well, I always remember that Maury said to me before 596 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 3: he died that one of the things he regretted the 597 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 3: most in his life was an argument that he had 598 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 3: with a friend of his that crumbled their friendship. 599 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 2: And he started to cry. 600 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 3: When he told it to me, and he said, you know, 601 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 3: I found out a couple months ago that he died 602 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 3: of cancer, and I never had. 603 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 2: A chance to make it up to him. And he 604 00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 2: started to weep and just weep. 605 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 3: He said, why did I let that nothing conversation separate us? 606 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 3: All I wish is that I could hold his hand 607 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 3: and tell them what a great friend he was, but 608 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 3: I never will. And he looked me kind of square on. 609 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 3: He said, Mitch, if there's anybody you care about in 610 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 3: your life who you're fighting with or feuding with, let 611 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 3: it go. 612 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 2: Just let it go. 613 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 3: He said, forgive everybody everything, and then forgive yourself, because 614 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 3: when you get to the end of your life, you're 615 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 3: going to wish that you had done that. And I 616 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 3: took that very seriously, and I've tried to live my 617 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 3: life that way, never holding grudges, and anybody that I 618 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 3: care about, if I get into something, I resolve it, 619 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 3: because you never know. 620 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 2: When you don't get the chance, the next day they're gone. 621 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 3: And so in a little liar, you know, forgiveness becomes 622 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 3: a big part of the theme and what is truth 623 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 3: and what is forgiveness if not sort of seeking the 624 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,479 Speaker 3: truth of what happened and what went wrong. So in 625 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 3: some ways, The Little Liar poses the question of, you know, 626 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 3: what's the biggest lie you ever told and what would 627 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 3: you do to be forgiven for that? 628 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: Lot and alcoholics anonymous, seeking reconciliation and forgiveness for the 629 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: things you've done to hurt others is a very significant 630 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: part of getting your act together and being able to 631 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: live without addiction. So in that sense, The Little Liar 632 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: you've touched on a central core of human beings. What's 633 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: also fascinating is you have a podcast called The Tuesday 634 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: People and you've been doing it for four years. How 635 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: often do you do it and what's your focus? 636 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 3: So we do it every week on Tuesdays. The reason 637 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 3: I decided to do it was as we were getting 638 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 3: close to the twenty fifth anniversary of Tuesdays with Maury, 639 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 3: somebody asked me, well, is there something that you can 640 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 3: do differently, you know, write something for the book or whatever. 641 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 3: And I thought about it. I said, you know, Tuesdays 642 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 3: with Mary's pretty well known. It's not a whole lot 643 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 3: more that I can say about it. But then I 644 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 3: realized that I had all these tapes from my conversations 645 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 3: with Maury that I had never really shared with anybody, 646 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 3: and so I thought about the audio medium, and I thought, well, 647 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 3: why don't I do a podcast where every week I 648 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 3: share some of our conversations and we review those lessons. 649 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 3: But as seen through the lens now, I'm a lot 650 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 3: closer to Mary's age than I am to mine back then, 651 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 3: and I am sort of, you know, taking his role 652 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 3: as the teacher now but using his words. And so 653 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 3: we're able to play all these different clips because we 654 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 3: recorded all of our conversations, and it's been very sweet 655 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 3: for me to listen to that, you know, because I'm 656 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 3: listening to myself from twenty five, twenty six years ago, 657 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 3: and my voice still sounds similar, younger, a little higher 658 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 3: like up here. 659 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 2: But the way I. 660 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 3: Converse and the way that Maury teases me and I tee, 661 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 3: there's a lot of laughing and there's a lot of teasing, 662 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 3: you know, along with the life lessons. There's a lot 663 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 3: of crying that you hear Maury do. And I was 664 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 3: just going to do it for like six months, but 665 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 3: it just keeps going because there's so many tapes, so. 666 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 1: People can go to where they get podcasts. Put in 667 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 1: the Tuesday people. 668 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, Tuesday people. 669 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: That's great. So one last language is in the middle 670 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 1: of all your creativity, you also are very deeply committed 671 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: to helping other people, both in Detroit and in Haiti. 672 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: Could you chat a little bit about what you do 673 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: and why you doing? 674 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 2: Sure? Well. 675 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 3: A lot of this also stems back to Tuesdays with Maury, 676 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 3: when Maury said to me one time, what do you 677 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 3: do for charity? And I said, what do you mean? 678 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 3: He said, well, what do you do for people in 679 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 3: your community? I said, I write checks? And he said, well, 680 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 3: anybody can write a check. You've been given a voice, 681 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 3: and you need to use your voice for something more 682 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 3: than just a grandizing yourself. I never forget that, because 683 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 3: who uses the word a grandize in a sentence except Maury. 684 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 2: And so I. 685 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 3: Started my first charity that year, which was a scholarship 686 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 3: fund for kids to study the arts in Detroit, and 687 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 3: then I began to get a little bit more deeply involved, 688 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 3: more to be involved than In two thousand and six, 689 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 3: they had the Super Bowl here in Detroit, and I 690 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 3: read a story about a Super super Bowl party for 691 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 3: homeless people, which I couldn't understand what the heck that was, 692 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 3: so I looked into it and it turned out it 693 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 3: was a euphemism for getting all the homeless people off 694 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 3: the streets in Detroit and putting them into this big. 695 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 2: Shelter so that they wouldn't bother the customers. 696 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 3: And then on Monday morning, right after the Super Bowl, 697 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 3: they were going to kick them out back out into 698 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 3: the street, and I thought, this is just really cruel, 699 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 3: and so I went down to a homeless shelter and 700 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 3: spent a night there to write a story about what 701 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 3: it was like to really need a shelter and how 702 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 3: why you can't give that to people and then just 703 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 3: take it away from them. And while I was in 704 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 3: line at the shelter for the meal, this guy in 705 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 3: front of me looks, turns around and looks me up 706 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 3: and down. He says, aren't you Mitch Album. I said yeah, 707 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 3: and then he looked me up and down again. He said, 708 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 3: so what happened to you? And you know, first I 709 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 3: laughed and he was dead serious. Then I realized, well, yeah, 710 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 3: I guess you know, he probably never expected to be 711 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 3: on this line either. So I was very taken with that, 712 00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 3: you know, like it was one of those moments that 713 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 3: kind of stayed with me. And I wrote a column 714 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 3: about it, and I asked people to help give money 715 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,319 Speaker 3: to just keep the homeless in that shelter at least 716 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 3: until April when it warmed up. So I was seeking 717 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,879 Speaker 3: sixty thousand dollars, and within a week I had three 718 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,240 Speaker 3: hundred and twenty five thousand dollars just from people sending 719 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,279 Speaker 3: in five and ten and twenty dollars donations, and so 720 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,400 Speaker 3: I had to do something with it, and so I 721 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 3: looked into it, and I formed this charity called Say 722 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 3: Detroit Super All Year Detroit instead of Super one Weekend. 723 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,959 Speaker 3: And it's grown from that in two thousand and six 724 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,959 Speaker 3: to it's now a multimillion dollar operation that handles ten 725 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 3: different operations, all of which we've created here, everything from 726 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 3: infants to five days old up to senior citizens. We 727 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 3: opened the first medical clinic for homeless children in America 728 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 3: was here in Detroit. 729 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 2: We operate that. We operate a. 730 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,400 Speaker 3: Rec center after school for three hundred kids that has 731 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 3: a digital learning center of recording studio football fields in 732 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 3: the most dangerous neighborhood in Detroit. We even have a 733 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 3: bicycle factory where we create jobs refurbishing or building bicycles 734 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,240 Speaker 3: that we then give out to people in Detroit because 735 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 3: transportation here is such a challenge, so people can't get 736 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 3: to work or can't get to school, and so we 737 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 3: provide free bicycles. So I've done all that and that's 738 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 3: grown into something quite big. And I take my role 739 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 3: in my hometown here of Detroit very seriously, and I 740 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 3: think I've been blessed. A lot of people's most common 741 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 3: question is why do you stay in Detroit? Why do 742 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,720 Speaker 3: you stay in Detroit? I can't believe you live in Detroit. 743 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 3: You know why you're still there. I love it here 744 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 3: and I'm very proud of being from here. That's my 745 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 3: involvement in Detroit and in Haiti. I operate an orphanage 746 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 3: in Haiti that I've been operating since twenty ten, and 747 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,720 Speaker 3: I'm there every month of my life. For about seven 748 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 3: to nine days of every month, I spend there running 749 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:49,799 Speaker 3: the orphanage, and we. 750 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 2: Have currently sixty five children. 751 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 3: We always have about sixty sixty five children, and as 752 00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:58,279 Speaker 3: they graduate, they get college scholarships. I've got twelve of 753 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 3: them right now in university here. Michigan and one in 754 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 3: medical school. Haiti is just a remarkable and sad place 755 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 3: on many levels. It's the second poorest country on Earth. 756 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 3: It's the poorest here in the Western Hemisphere. It is 757 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,279 Speaker 3: lawless right now and without government. We have to take 758 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 3: armored cars just to get to the orphanage from the 759 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,320 Speaker 3: airport and have bodyguards with us. 760 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,880 Speaker 1: This is a topic I'm very fascinated by. We have 761 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,879 Speaker 1: been in Haiti off and on since nineteen twenty three 762 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 1: and we haven't been able to fix it. It's a 763 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:37,319 Speaker 1: human tragedy and it has predatory behaviors that makes life 764 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: miserable for everybody who's not predatory. The military's intervened several times, 765 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 1: nothing gets improved. What's your gut instinct, and since you 766 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 1: have a personal knowledge of the country, what has to 767 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 1: be done so that Haitians can have a decent life. 768 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 3: Well, first of all, they have to make education available. 769 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 3: And it may sound simple, but you have to pay 770 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,600 Speaker 3: to go to school in Haiti, and that's a device 771 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:02,800 Speaker 3: that the rich use to keep. 772 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:03,320 Speaker 2: The poor down. 773 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 3: You can't raise up an educated class of people if 774 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,919 Speaker 3: nobody can afford to go to school. And every time 775 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 3: a politician comes along promising to make school free, somebody 776 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,560 Speaker 3: in power undermines them and make sure it doesn't happen. 777 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 3: So right from the very beginning, they have to make 778 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,920 Speaker 3: sure that people get educated. And then you have to 779 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 3: somehow find a way to get a leader there that 780 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:29,200 Speaker 3: isn't corrupt or corrupted by the previous leaders, because corruption 781 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:34,399 Speaker 3: is absolutely endemic to Haitian government. The people are remarkable. 782 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 3: They're resilient. The kids are amazing. We have children who 783 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,120 Speaker 3: have been abandoned, left under trees to die, you know, 784 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,840 Speaker 3: left in holes in the ground and muddy fields, no 785 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,880 Speaker 3: birth certificates, no record of who they are. We have 786 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,840 Speaker 3: to give them names and make up birthdays. And yet 787 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 3: they have a joy for living and a resilience and 788 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 3: a faith that is unparalleled. And I wish I could 789 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:02,840 Speaker 3: explain to people why it's important to help out in Haiti. 790 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,760 Speaker 3: And you know new because you're an educated man in government. 791 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 3: We ran Haiti for fifteen years, We wrote their constitution, 792 00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 3: we kept their money in our banks. We have a 793 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,359 Speaker 3: history there, we have an obligation there. And it's not 794 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 3: just some little island off the Florida coast, so to speak. 795 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 3: And it's only seven hundred miles away from us, and 796 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 3: yet the way people live, the life expectancy there is 797 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 3: like twenty years less than here, just because of the condition. 798 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:36,400 Speaker 3: So I wish that our leaders were more dedicated to 799 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,960 Speaker 3: doing something there. Unfortunately, you know, it's not a lot 800 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,959 Speaker 3: of political benefit to helping Haiti. Of course, if China 801 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,279 Speaker 3: suddenly decided to come in there, or Russia or whatever, 802 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,600 Speaker 3: we'd be there in a hurry. Witness what happened just recently. Well, 803 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,680 Speaker 3: with all these gangs. We have five people living with 804 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,799 Speaker 3: us at our orphanage who have to live with us 805 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,440 Speaker 3: because they had gangs walk into their homes with guns 806 00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:01,399 Speaker 3: and say get out now, no clothes, no anything, get out. 807 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 3: This is our house now and they have no place 808 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 3: to go, so they live with us. The country lives 809 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,360 Speaker 3: under that kind of fear and control of these gangs. 810 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 1: I think it's one of the great tragedies of our time, 811 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,719 Speaker 1: and it ought to be fixable. But to fix it 812 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,120 Speaker 1: you would have to defeat evil, and we're not very 813 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 1: good right now at doing that. 814 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 3: No, I wish there was a formula that I knew 815 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,440 Speaker 3: how to do that. So I always say I can't 816 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 3: fix Haiti, but I can fix a tiny little corner 817 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 3: of it, and that's why I'm there and I will 818 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 3: be for the rest of my life. 819 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,720 Speaker 1: If enough people take on the desire to be helpful 820 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 1: that you have both in Detroit and Haiti collectively will 821 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,879 Speaker 1: eventually produce a better planet with better living conditions. Mitch, 822 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 1: this has been fascinating. You've had a remarkable life that 823 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,160 Speaker 1: has sort of unfolded before you. I can kind of 824 00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:54,759 Speaker 1: sense that you kept drifting forward and the next thing 825 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 1: would open up, and then the next thing. So I 826 00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,799 Speaker 1: really want to thank you for joining me. I want 827 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,719 Speaker 1: to and mind our listeners that your new novel, The 828 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,840 Speaker 1: Little Liar, is available on Amazon and in bookstores everywhere, 829 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: would make a great holiday gift. I encourage everyone to 830 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,920 Speaker 1: pick up a copy. You can read more about Mitch's 831 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:17,040 Speaker 1: work on his website at Mitch album dot com. And 832 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,439 Speaker 1: I want to further say thank you for the work 833 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:21,960 Speaker 1: you've done both for the people of Michigan and the 834 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 1: people of Haiti with all your philanthropic work, and thank 835 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,520 Speaker 1: you for what'sman, I think an amazing conversation. 836 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 3: Well thanks, I've really enjoyed talking to you and I appreciated. 837 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:32,840 Speaker 3: Happy holidays to everybody in your audience. 838 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,359 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest Mitch Album. You can learn 839 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,000 Speaker 1: more about his new book, The Little Liar on our 840 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,360 Speaker 1: show page at newtsworld dot com. News World is produced 841 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:48,719 Speaker 1: by Gaingish three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is 842 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:53,120 Speaker 1: Guarnsey Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for 843 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:57,200 Speaker 1: the show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to 844 00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,719 Speaker 1: the team at Gingers three sixty. If you've been enjoying 845 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,640 Speaker 1: newts World, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and 846 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,319 Speaker 1: both rate us with five stars and give us a 847 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,840 Speaker 1: review so others can learn what it's all about. Right now, 848 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 1: listeners of newts World can sign up for my three 849 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:17,120 Speaker 1: freeweekly columns at gangwischree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I'm 850 00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:19,080 Speaker 1: Newt Gingrich. This is newts World.