WEBVTT - All Ball - Pt. 2: NCAA Officiating Head J.D. Collins on Ref Bias Debate, Big Game Pressure, Rule Changes 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:09.280 Hey, it's stuck Golie. Welcome and this is All Ball, 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:11.920 the podcast you love, and we tell stories where we 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:14.560 love other people to come and tell stories about their 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:17.800 storied career. We talk a little hoops in the meantime. 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:20.840 I do want to give you a thought on the 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:25.200 issues within the Miami Heat. And as you guys know, 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:27.560 if you listen to this pod, I love the idea 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:30.479 of culture. I love that they kind of load to 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:34.239 the basketball, that they make you make contested shots, that 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:38.760 they played together, that it's about toughness and versatility defensively. 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:41.400 And I'm also realized that they're not healthy, right, I 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:44.960 get it, But we also have to give a little 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:47.440 bit of respect for guys that can just go get buckets. 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:51.680 Like all the other stuff is hard, playing the NBA 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:53.680 is hard. There's just there's no role that you have 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:57.680 that's easy. Hey, I mean, I I all. I remember 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:00.360 Steve Kerr. I think it was in the tooth husand 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:04.400 and two NBA Finals. I went to Game six in 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:07.800 Jersey and and maybe I have I'll tell that story again. 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:10.720 That's actually how I got my first NBA draft gig 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:14.080 at ESPN Radio. But I remember going to Game six 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:15.680 and Steve Kurt didn't play in the first half, and 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:17.600 yet in the second half. You remember that game he 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:20.280 came off the bench and maybe maybe his Game five, 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:23.039 I think it was actually his Game five and hit 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:26.039 three threes, replaced Tony Parker and kind of one in 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:29.440 the game one in the series. And I remember walking 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:31.600 out of the building that night thinking, do people understand 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:34.840 how hard it is what Steve Kerr just accomplished. If 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:38.000 people understand that to sit there the whole game and 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:39.320 then oh yeah, by the way, to start in the 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:41.920 second half and halfter halftime, he and Steve Smith must 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:43.320 have gotten the sign they were gonna go play. They 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:44.800 come sprinting out of the the locker room and get a 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:46.640 bunch of shots up. But to sit there for like 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:49.880 an hour and a half, two hours, get the call 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:52.200 come in, be open, have to make shots. I know. Yeah, 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:54.040 by the way, guard Jason Kidd at the other end, 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:59.000 that's an incredibly hard rule. But the hardest rule remains, Hey, 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:00.720 when the house is on fire or you can lead 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:04.800 them out, can you go get me a bucket? The 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:08.240 the amount of energy expended doing that is greater than 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:16.040 any other energy in the NBA. So I I respect that, 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:19.520 and I think it's what the Heat are missing, you know, like, look, 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:22.679 when they won championships, they had Lebron or they had 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:26.040 Dwyane Wade. When they haven't, They've had really really good 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:28.880 teams that allow them to consistently be competitive, but they 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:32.240 don't have a bucket getter. And Jimmy Butler is a 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:35.880 very very good player. There's a difference very very good 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:39.200 player and star superstar, And there in lies the difference. 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:43.560 You know, that's just not he's at his best when 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:46.960 he's your second or third best offensive player. When he's 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:49.480 your best offensive player, that's not really what he does. 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:53.360 He can still score twenty five a night, but he 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:58.360 can't be counted on the score night. Makes sense, all right, 0:02:58.400 --> 0:02:59.799 more on that to come. Let me get you to 0:02:59.880 --> 0:03:05.360 part two of my conversation with Jadie Collins. You do 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:09.160 you remember the moment that you felt like I've made 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:14.640 it right, Like you remember the big game? Where where 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:20.760 was it? Because oftentimes, like you mentioned, uh, the former 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:23.720 commissioner of the MAC who became the coordinator in the 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:26.520 because like that's I'm gonna look, we look at the 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.320 list right before the game, like and then there's always 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:30.920 a guy like I have no idea who that human 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:33.600 being is. And then you get to a point where like, oh, 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:36.800 j D, I know, I mean, all right, we're good. 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:40.040 Was was it a moment where, uh, you know, a 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:43.080 big name coach, you know, I knew you by name 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:45.120 and you had a relationship. Was it a big game? 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:47.800 Was it a final four? What was the Was there 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:52.000 a moment where like I have kind of arrived? You know, 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:56.720 I don't know that. I don't know that just thinking 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:59.720 that way, I don't know that I have I don't 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:02.600 know that I can think that I've arrived. I you know, 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:07.680 even in my job that I'm in now, it's uh, 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:09.520 I don't know. I think we all we all are 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:12.240 in learning process. But three things came to mind when 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:15.240 you asked that question about a moment um. I worked 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:18.440 the I worked in the Elite eight Nolbuquerque with Tim 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:23.800 Higgins and Eddie High Tower Louisville, West Virginia UM. Louisville 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:27.480 is down twenty four points at the half and Louisville 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:30.200 comes back double overtime, wins by one and goes to 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:33.960 the Final four. I remember working that game, and not 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:36.640 that it was perfect, not that that the three of 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:38.960 us were perfect or anything like that, but it was 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:42.600 the the atmosphere was such, and I think it might 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:45.000 have been two thousand and five. The atmosphere was such 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:49.880 that processing through it handling the game, not having an 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:53.280 impact on who one who lost that game. UM that 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:56.240 that was a pretty pretty pretty cool moment. The second 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:59.760 one is not a moment of arrival, but it's a 0:04:59.839 --> 0:05:02.000 moment moment that you know that you're heading in the 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:04.839 right direction. I was fortunate enough to work as the 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:08.240 alternate official in the two thousand final two thousand four 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:11.760 Final four in San Antonio, and setting there watching it, 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:15.200 I remember the words in my head, I think I 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:16.920 can do this. I mean I could, I can work 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:19.479 the Final four or whatever. Hank Nichols assigned me to 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:23.040 that game. Dear friend, uh those games. I was there 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:26.960 all weekend. Four years later, I'm back in San Antonio 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:29.880 work in U c l A in Memphis, and I 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:32.560 knew that I could handle that game. I didn't think 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:35.080 I could, I knew I could. And so the that 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:40.360 process of the next four years, working literally each coordinator 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:42.960 of the Power Leagues and the Big East gave me 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:45.719 games that, I mean, night in and night out. We're 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:49.520 just hard the backyard brawl between Pittsburgh and West Virginia 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:53.800 and just I mean Indiana Purdue. Mr mcan state whatever 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:57.360 it is you you then know that you can handle 0:05:57.360 --> 0:05:59.680 these games because it kind of been there, done that 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.680 there's nothing gonna happen that it's gonna get, um go 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:06.320 wrong in the game. And I say that to say 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:10.919 coordinators assigned referees on the game differently than they assigned 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:14.000 you once and you two's the referee is responsible for 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:16.159 that game. And I always took it that it was 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:19.599 my job to make sure nothing went wrong in that game, 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:23.800 whether it was fand behavior, player behavior, coach behavior, I 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:27.000 was gonna handle it. And that four year segment between 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:32.200 O four and oh eight was truly the learning part 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:34.520 of getting me to that point. If there is ever 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:38.560 a point of of ah ha as you're describing it, Um, 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:41.839 it's that journey you're in along the way now going 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:44.200 back to that, going back to the to the Louisville 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:47.719 West Virginia game. Um, I had one opportunity in my 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:50.680 career Louisville West Virginia. I call a foul. I think 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:53.840 his numbers twenty four. J D. Collins calling a foul 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:59.400 on J. D. Collins, the player from West Virginia right right, 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:02.280 and High Tower was with me and High Tower as 0:07:02.279 --> 0:07:04.719 the trail boom, he takes the call at the table 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:07.640 and I am devastated. I'm like, hey, I get half time, 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:10.400 like I had the chance to call a foul and 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:13.760 j D column, are you kidding me? Well, he didn't 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:16.320 particularly understand what I was trying to communicate there, but 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:20.320 that being said, um, I think it's more of a journey, 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:23.920 Doug than it is a moment now getting done with 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:26.760 the final four. That was an oh eight that I 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:29.720 worked on the floor. My knee blew out, you know, nine, 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:35.960 So my career ended at that point on the floor. Um. 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:39.040 But after the game, I walk out in the arena. 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:42.760 It was really funny because Tom Crean was was setting 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:45.080 in the second row right behind me. I walk out, 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:49.280 turn on my cell phone, sixty messages, you know, just 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:53.240 getting pounded by the people that wanted to celebrate working 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:56.240 the game. And Tom says to me, hey, j D. 0:07:56.680 --> 0:07:58.640 And he's coming from the Big East to the Big 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:01.400 Ten and he and he said, I always thought I 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:04.120 always thought Big East officials sucked. And he was kidding, 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:07.520 he was busting my chops. I said, Tom big Tens 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:11.320 my primary, I'll see you in the fall. It was 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:15.120 a great bus. Uh, and I have the utmost respect 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:18.320 for him. But that moment when my when I listened 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:20.240 to the first message, I'm sitting there, the second game 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:22.960 is getting ready to start, and I listened to the 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:26.600 first message, and it hits you. It hits you that 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:29.240 you just had the opportunity to referee in front of 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:32.560 seventy five thousand people for the first time. You did well, 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:35.880 you didn't screw anything up. Uh. That moment is the 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:38.160 one that that I you know, I shot my phone 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:40.320 off and left the arena, went back to the hotel 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:43.320 room and enjoyed life. Was it was it all? Like? 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:48.720 What was the goal? To just grow? Was the goal 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:51.439 to get to the Final four? Like you know in 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:56.199 your as you climb Like it's like I tell people 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:58.160 all the time, like my goal, like all I want 0:08:58.160 --> 0:08:59.839 to do is I wanted to start four years and 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:03.120 college and then my goal is really I just want 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:05.240 to play one day in the NBA. That was I 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:09.080 just I had a reasonable I thought if things worked 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:10.720 out right, I could play in the NBA. But if 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:13.160 I just had one day where I walked into the 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:15.760 locker room and there's an NBA jersey in my last 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:18.440 name on the back, Like that's I'm good right, I 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:21.720 wanted to play in the final four. Um, you know 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:25.800 things you want to do? Was was was there a goal? 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:27.840 Was that a goal along the way or was it? 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:30.800 Or were you a just keep growing, progressing sort of guy? 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:33.840 What what was your mentality? I think I think achieving 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:37.559 excellence is what the overall goal is, and the way 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:41.360 you mark that is what level you achieved. And so 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:45.200 getting the opportunity to work the final four says you're 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:50.360 a you are an elite level that you can you 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:55.080 can attach to what your peers attached to as well. Um, really, 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:57.200 every every you know, the hundred guys that I use 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:58.720 in the n C Double A tournament, every one of 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:02.040 them one to work the final four, and then everyone 0:10:02.040 --> 0:10:04.160 of them wants wants to work the championship game. And 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:05.920 then everyone of them wants to be the guy tossing 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:08.360 the ball at the championship game. Because of the reality, 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:12.000 every other official besides the guy that gets to toss 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:16.960 the vault at the Final four was second, third, fourth, hundred. 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:21.920 You know that nobody's ever happy, ever ever ever, and 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:26.920 and uh, yeah, it's the final four is what officials 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:32.520 want to work, Uh, to acknowledge their status level in 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:37.320 the business. Uh, how'd you blow your knee? You know? 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:40.560 I uh runner all my life. I put a lot 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:44.000 of road miles in with a couple of dogs. Uh. 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:47.440 Then add to that refereeing stop start stop start, had 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:53.120 multiple knee surgeries and Uh. On December six, I was 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:55.520 at Ohio University and a player went to the corner 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:57.480 and I had to run around him and I felt 0:10:57.480 --> 0:11:01.000 my knee pop. I kept referee being, um, you know, 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:04.880 drained my knee, get a shot, do whatever. December at 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:08.720 Michigan State against Texas Southern. Um, it blew up the 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:11.720 size of a pumpkin, and I knew I was done, 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:14.599 you know, quite frankly, both knees bone on bone. I 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:16.640 had used them up. I was forty seven years old. 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:20.000 Went to went to my surgeon, uh New Year's Eve, 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:23.080 and said, hey, help me, help me fix this. Let's 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:25.920 you know, I need to keep refereeing. And he's like, dude, 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:28.680 you're done, you are done. You have to have your 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:31.920 knee replaced. Boom bom boom, and away we went. There 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:35.720 are officially you didn't finish even that year. I did not. 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:39.640 I shut it down on December. I had my knee 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:44.240 replaced on March the and UH, you know, you go 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:47.800 on with life. And there are officials today who have 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:52.440 knee replacements and physically work themselves back to the point 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:58.120 where they can referee. Uh. Several several um n C 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:02.000 Double A level final four guys have have done this. 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:06.840 Uh in my path have my right knee replaced. I 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:09.200 know my leftnee needed it. If I went back on 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:12.720 the floor, it would just it's a matter of one 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:16.240 season or whatever. And I choose the value of life 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:18.880 over uh, you know, the ability to play golf, the 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:21.640 ability to hike with my wife's ability to do things. 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:25.160 I chose that over going back on the floor and 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:28.319 fighting that battle just for another basketball game. So then, 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:32.400 how did you progress into coordinating officials as opposed to 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:38.320 doing yourself? So I, uh that was March of ten. 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:42.360 In in March of eleven, um, the Big Ten hired me. 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:44.800 They just hired Rick by I just as a coordinator 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:49.000 of officials. Uh. And Rick came from the coaching side. Uh. 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:51.440 So Jim Delaney hired me to be an assistant there. 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.360 The following year became the MAC and some are the 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:57.480 MAC in the Summit League coordinator and helped the Big ten. 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:01.000 So it was a natural progression for UM on the 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:05.800 floor to administrative and trying to UM teach and train 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:08.560 guys to do what I had done on the floor. 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:10.640 Did that for five years and in the n C 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.720 double a position opened and UM, I felt that it 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:17.040 was the right the right move I thought, I thought 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:21.680 it was the right challenge and literally thrilled to death 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:24.880 that I made that change. And I've loved I've loved 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:27.360 being in the role I'm in for seven years. Fox 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:30.480 Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:33.720 Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:36.760 com and within the I Heart Radio app search f 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:45.160 s R to listen live. UM so m college Baute. 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:49.680 We started by talking about decorum, fans and a little 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:55.000 bit officials. UM. I think the first thing is that 0:13:56.400 --> 0:14:01.360 people believe. And you mentioned back in the Horizon League, Hey, 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:02.960 I want to hire a guy from Indiana. I don't 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:06.439 want to think. You know, we're is the idea of biases, 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:12.600 the biases, and it's hard because you do at some 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:15.000 point you're doing it for you know, how long you've 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:17.680 been doing it for. You know, you get to whether 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:19.800 you have a real relationship with people. Be there's people 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:22.000 that you like, like you just like them, you know, 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:24.400 and the people that you don't like what you have 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:27.480 to call the game fair in your heart of hearts? 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:33.880 Do you do you believe that you're able to officiate 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:42.280 without any bias um The answer equivically is yes. When 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:45.040 when you first started refereeing, you know, people go is 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:48.240 a makeup call a possibility? You do that once in 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:50.040 your career where you miss a call and then you 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:52.880 miss a second one on purpose and you realize you 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:56.400 never catch up. And so that is I will, I 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:58.520 will only and I don't want to interrupt your thoughts, 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:00.720 but I will point out that what I find to 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:04.400 be really good officiating sometimes it's harder now with replay 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:08.040 is you might miss a call and then the ball 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:11.040 goes out of bounds and you you right the wrong 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:13.240 by giving it to the team that the call was 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:16.760 missed up. So yes, you know, twenty years ago, twenty 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:18.920 years ago, you might have been able to pull that 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:22.320 off occasionally. But the reality and the better play is 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:25.600 a guy who goes over the top and is bowling 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:28.040 the guy from behind, and we know that it went 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:31.200 out on whit, we pass on the foul and we 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:34.200 give the ball back to Okay, that's that's a better 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:37.360 example because there's there's two parts to that play. But 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:41.440 the reality is, um, you can never catch them and 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:43.680 it doesn't exist. Your question to me is can you 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:47.520 do it without bias? And you just like you as 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:51.640 a fan or your fans that watch games without question, 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:53.960 their biased towards the red jersey or the blue jersey 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:59.440 without question. You have to train yourself not to have bias. 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:03.400 And I would you know a little footnote here. I 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:05.920 think you have to do that in life as well. 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.960 I do. I think what people they this is their 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:14.120 one place? This is there one like. That's honestly the 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:18.320 hardest thing in my in in my job is you know, 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:22.120 people like you played at Oklahoma States, so you automatically 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:27.720 hate X y Z like no, this this school did 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:30.800 offer you a scholarship, so like it turned out okay 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:33.760 for me, that was twenty years downy years ago. That 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:38.520 has nothing to do with anything now, Um, Like, you 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:43.040 can be trained to have bias, uh, whether that's in 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:46.520 basketball or in life. You can train yourself to have 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:50.240 no bias, especially as you're operating at a professional level. 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:52.920 And you know, let's talk about my job. I choose 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:55.880 one officials to work the n C Double A tournament 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:58.960 and advanced them through the tournament. I will promise you 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:05.240 I don't like all Okay. Some of them are are 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:09.400 people that their approach to life is completely opposite of mine. 0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:12.680 They have different values. I don't like them, but you 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:15.240 know what, my job is to put the best officials 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:18.879 on this wool. Matter whether I like them or not. 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:22.879 You can train yourself to not have bias. And I 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:25.520 will tell you I know that's you know, from a 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:27.880 fan perspective, that's the number one thing. Oh this guy 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:29.880 when he ref Star Games. You know what, I had 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:33.800 Gane Katie one year eleven times. They went two and 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:37.400 nine with me. Jane thought I was a horrible official 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:40.960 that year. The following year, I had them seven times 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:43.760 and they went six and one with me. And he 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:47.280 literally asked the coordinator of officials, did j D go 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:50.800 through a divorce last year? Whatever? No, your team sucked, 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:56.240 they weren't very good. Okay, nothing to do with my 0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:59.840 BIASI has nothing to do with my bias toward a 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:04.840 team a t B R tm C. It's about training yourself, 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:09.280 not to me. Okay, how about this one, um, what 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:13.600 is it like you're a young official? Okay, this is 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:17.040 a this is this is a very basketball thing. I 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:19.040 think that one of the hardest things for like John 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:22.600 Shire this year, dude is going to be is completely 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:25.240 different when John Shire is over there trying to talk 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:26.800 to you and ask you for a call, as opposed 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:30.880 to the old man. Right just is. But as an official, 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:34.640 is it like, you know, the thought is for example, 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:39.320 coach k I mean, he's USA Basketball, he's you know, 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:42.920 kind of pedigree. So so so you're you're doing a game, 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:45.679 you're a young official and you're looking over there and 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:48.800 one guy has won seven hundred games and it is 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:50.720 in the Hall of Fame and the other guy is 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:52.760 just coming coming up. Doesn't mean you're gonna screw the 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:54.520 other guy, but it's a lot of harder you're you 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:58.280 you know, it's like God himself is coaching that one team. 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:04.159 What what is that to not to officiate? Well, I'm 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:07.879 gonna I'm gonna move move the bar just a second 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:10.840 and then come back to that. My first Division one 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:14.159 game in an exhibition game, was at Indiana University with 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:18.840 Coach Night. First Division game. Okay, I'm with Steve Walmer 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:23.040 and Eric Carmona. During the game, I go to the 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:25.760 C slot in front of Coach Night. He picks me up. 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:27.760 He literally stood up, picked me up and moved me 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:29.800 to the side because he wanted to see the game. 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:34.920 If that happened twenty years into my career, fifteen years 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:36.639 into my career, I give him a technical foul and 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:40.639 move on. I'm not gonna happen. But my partners, because 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:43.120 it was an exhibition game and easy for them, they 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:45.320 rotated so that I was in front of Coach Night 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:50.320 every time down. I had no choice but to be 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:53.720 in front of Coach Night on my first Division one game. 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:58.080 All right, now, fast forward, Um, I referee in the 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:01.639 Big ten from certainly through two thousand while he was 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:03.200 in a Big Tennis, So I Coach Night a lot. 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:07.879 And there is a point in everyone's career where you 0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:10.280 have to stand on your own two feet and go 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:14.359 back to the duke thing. It's walking on the floor 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:18.119 before a game. You've been in the league for fifteen years. 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:21.240 Assistant coach from Team A comes over, Hey, j D. 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:23.760 Gives you some man love, blah blah blah blah. A 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:27.760 lot of guys don't pay attention to that referees. When 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:31.040 that would happen to me, I would go find an 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:35.320 assistant coach from the team I didn't know, introduced myself, 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:38.400 give them some brother love, and away we go. Why 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:41.840 would I do that? Because I wanted everyone to understand 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:45.879 that I'm gonna treat everyone exactly the same, no matter 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:53.040 of pedigree, no matter of whatever. Now, one coach, best example, 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:56.240 I give you his coach Pettino when he was at Louisville. 0:20:57.200 --> 0:21:01.239 If you had Louisville and filling the blank team and 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:03.520 you listen to to the fill in the blank team's 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:07.439 coach for fifteen seconds, one of coach Pettino's major things is, 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:10.760 no matter what happened in the game, he's taken fifteen 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:13.359 seconds down there, he's gonna get in your ear for 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:20.119 fifteen seconds. Okay, time, if it's thirty seconds, he's taken thirty, 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:22.959 but he's gonna get his equal time. And early in 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:28.119 my career I understood that process and understood that it 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:29.680 doesn't really matter. And you say, well, I'll give me 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:34.080 an example that okay. Uh. December twenty six, two thousand 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:40.080 six or seven December, nobody's playing, and I get an 0:21:40.119 --> 0:21:45.480 assignment of North Carolina at Rutgers. Okay, only game on 0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:50.920 in America. North Carolina is winning by twenty points. Handburg 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:52.959 goes Handsborg goes to the whole, gets a little bit 0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:55.320 of a foul, but it's not enough, and I point 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:59.320 the other way. Blah blah blah. Coach um uh coach 0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:03.240 jumps in the air, lands on the floor. Before he lands, 0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:05.760 I whack him. I hate him with the technical foul 0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:10.840 completely upsets him beyond you know, any normal faith. I 0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:13.440 can't believe that that's the cheapest technical. He's He's all 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:16.240 over me. I we we do the technical foul at 0:22:16.280 --> 0:22:19.000 the other end. We come back and I make my 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:22.120 partners switch up, so I'm in front of him. I'm 0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:24.840 in front of Roy, and Roy goes, Jean, that's the 0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:29.560 cheapest technical. I said, Roy, not personal. You can't do 0:22:29.640 --> 0:22:34.160 that on my floor, and he goes, it's not personal. 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:37.399 Oh no, Roy, it's not personal. Now keep in mind, 0:22:37.840 --> 0:22:40.919 I also knew that every coach in America was watching 0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:45.600 North Carolina at Rutgers that night. Next month of my season, 0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:49.520 I didn't hear Boot Jack Didley from a single coach 0:22:49.800 --> 0:22:52.800