1 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:12,719 Speaker 1: Good. If you're taking a Walk with Buzznight. I'm Buzznight. 2 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: I'm the host of Taking a Walk, and I welcome 3 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: you to a virtual edition. I'm in Massachusetts at the 4 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:24,959 Speaker 1: Conquered River Elliott Preserve, which is in Carlisle, Massachusetts. My 5 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: guest is in the San Francisco, California area. If you're 6 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: a regular listener of Taking a Walk, welcome, Your support 7 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: is so appreciated, Your encouragement, your willingness to share and 8 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 1: share your comments or so motivating, and please share and 9 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: subscribe and download or rate or review Taking a Walk. 10 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:48,840 Speaker 1: And if you're a new listener, whether it be here 11 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 1: in the US or part of our global audience, we 12 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:55,279 Speaker 1: welcome you as well. Taking a Walk is about the 13 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: love of conversation with interesting people, people who have ordinary stories, 14 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: people who have extraordinary stories. And one of the topics 15 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: I often talk about with guests on Taking a Walk 16 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: is really leadership, and today's guest is an expert in 17 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:18,320 Speaker 1: that area. She's the author of best selling books, including 18 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 1: Open Leadership and The Disruption Mindset. She's been named one 19 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: of the most Creative people in Business by Fast Company. 20 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: She's an expert in digital transformation and disruptive growth strategies, 21 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: and she currently is the chief research officer for PA Consulting. 22 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: Glad to be taking a walk, even though it's virtual, 23 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: prefer in person, but glad to be taking a walk 24 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: with Charlene Lee. Hello, Charlene, ky buzz. How are you 25 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: doing today? I'm doing great? Thanks for taking the time. 26 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: You are in the San Francisco area, right, that's correct, 27 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: in middle San Francisco, which is one of the great 28 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: walking cities. Do you like taking a walk in San Francisco? 29 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: I love it in a deep bog in a sunny day. 30 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: It's all great. And does it get you out of 31 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: a time maybe where you're lobjammed on a particular project, 32 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: just to go clear the air? Yes, I find that 33 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 1: literally huffing my way up a really steep hill is 34 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: a great way to get me distracted from the things 35 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: that I can't do, and it just gives me a 36 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: different perspective, literally a different perspective when I get to 37 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: the top of that hill. That's awesome. So how is 38 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: it going? First of all, you made a little shift 39 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 1: in the job during these last couple of years. How 40 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:44,519 Speaker 1: is it going with the PA Consulting Group. Well, I'm 41 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: just there for three months now, so it just began 42 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: a few months ago. So far it's been great. Again. 43 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: It may be I'm still in my honeymoon with the company, 44 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: but I feel like that the company is trying to 45 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: accomplish with its purpose is very much aligned with what 46 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: I've trying to do, which is the whole reason why 47 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,239 Speaker 1: I joined. I gave up, you know, doing my whole 48 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:11,239 Speaker 1: independent research work to join a very large international consulting 49 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: firm based in London, over four thousand people. And it 50 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: is very very different to be working for a larger organization, 51 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: but you're enjoying it. I love it. It's absolutely great 52 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: to have colleagues who are every day pushing me to 53 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: be bigger and bolder and to ask and think in 54 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: a larger scale. And most of what I just feel 55 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: like we're relying on what we're trying to do. Again, 56 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: we're aligned by this purpose. That's awesome. Well, you know, 57 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: I come out of the media business, and particularly the 58 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: radio business, and how can can media companies and radio 59 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: companies be bolder at a time when they maybe need 60 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: to be shifting their thinking? Well, I think again, the 61 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: biggest problem with media companies is what kind of business 62 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: are they Are they in the radio business, are they 63 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: in the TV business? Are they in the newspaper business versus? 64 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: Because if you think about it only as the channel 65 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: even though all of these mediums are also digital today, 66 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: if that's the core of what you do, then you're 67 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: missing the larger relationship that you're building with these people. 68 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 1: What do they depend on you for? What kind of 69 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: relationship do you want to have with them? What kind 70 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 1: of relationship do they have with you? And when you 71 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,799 Speaker 1: can at the core understand what needs you are fulfilling 72 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: for them and then discover new ways of potentially meeting 73 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 1: those things, that's just a perspective where it's no longer 74 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: just listeners or readers. These are people who need information 75 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: to be doing something, So what is that something? If 76 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 1: you can help them get to that goal better faster, 77 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: you'd be accomplishing. You're missing a lot better too. So 78 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: we know it's been difficult these last couple of years 79 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: for all companies, media companies included, to stay ahead of obviously, 80 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: you know the health issues of a pandemic and everything. 81 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: How have you seen this handcuffed companies and how have 82 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 1: you seen companies, you know, break free from being handcuffed 83 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: by what's been going on. Well, you can see yourself 84 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: as being handcuffed when any dystruction comes your way, and 85 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: you think of it as a setback versus an opportunity. 86 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: And what you saw with the pandemic, and also with 87 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: what's going on right now with the economy inflation potential 88 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: recession that we may be in or not. You can 89 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: look at it as something to hide from, or you 90 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: can see it as an opportunity to be grassed whore 91 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: no one else can see one. And the people who 92 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: are successful at growing and disrecting themselves seeing challenges as 93 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:04,040 Speaker 1: opportunities to grow, opportunities not to fail, but to learn 94 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: from things falling short of success and do better the 95 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: next time when they dust themselves up and get up 96 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 1: and go again. And so it's really hard for businesses 97 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: and leaders where you feel like you have to succeed, 98 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: that every single journey have to be right one hundred 99 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,840 Speaker 1: percent of the time, and that is just so debilitating 100 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: because you can never ever fail. And the people who 101 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 1: are able to go to experiment and innovate are the 102 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 1: ones who have a really healthy relationship with you. Well, 103 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: I love how you think from the inside of the 104 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: organization as well. You always have and you still are 105 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: when you're thinking about these uncomfortable discussions that have to 106 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: occur within organizations so they can be in the transformative mode. 107 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 1: Talk about these uncomfortable discussions. Well, if you are not 108 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 1: capable of having these uncomfortable discussions, then you just let 109 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: them go by the wayside, and you don't deal with that, 110 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: and you just hope, hope, hope, clost your fingers and 111 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: hope that it doesn't come back and bite you. That's 112 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: not a great way to go through life. There's a 113 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: great saying from the chairman of Nokia Resi Stalis, Mom, 114 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: you got to say that no news is good news. 115 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Bad news is good news because when if 116 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: you know what's going wrong and we can actually do 117 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: something wrong. No news is bad news because you never 118 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: know what's really happening. And good news is no news 119 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: that okay, it's great, that's actually not news. This is 120 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: what we expected things to happen. So when you look forward, 121 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: when you look for and anticipate and relish, you really 122 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: want the bad news, like what's going wrong, then we 123 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: can make sure we'll be going on a better path 124 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: going forward. That's a very different mindset, and it was 125 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: just what disruptors do. This is what leaders do when 126 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: they're trying to create change. And if you're not creating 127 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: change and you're a leader, you're managing the status quo. 128 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:11,239 Speaker 1: But leaders create change well. But leaders also, in your mind, 129 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: need to have a mindfulness when they think of their organization. 130 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: Talk about mindfulness and leadership, which I know is very 131 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: important for you. Yes, I'm doing a live team about 132 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: that next week. Actually about mindfulness. The idea of mindfulness 133 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: as a leader in particular, is that you're keeping in mind, 134 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: you're mindful of what's going on around you. So it's 135 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:38,559 Speaker 1: not that you just go on a track and you 136 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: close off everything else, the possibility that blinders on. You're 137 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: actually aware of all the circumstances around you because you 138 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: can be fully fully present. That's what mindfulness allows you 139 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: to be, to be fully present and aware of all 140 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: your different options. And then your wisdom and experience as 141 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: a leader allows you to focus pick where you will 142 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: put your focus, where you re center your attention on, 143 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: and leadership requires you to make less than optimal choices 144 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: and decisions constantly. That's what leadership is about. You will 145 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: never have the perfect circumstances, who never have the one 146 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: hundred percent of information that you need to make a decision. 147 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: So being as mindful aware of this place where you 148 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: are so you can make the best decisions possible, knowing 149 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: that they're not going to be perfect and you're doing 150 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 1: your best, and that when things fall short, you will 151 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 1: pick up the pieces and keep moving. And that discomfort 152 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: is the thing that leaders do so well is that 153 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: they're comfortable with being uncomfortable. And this is they expect it, 154 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: they get used to it, they actually thrive with it, 155 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: gives them a little bit of a thrill when they 156 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: encounter it again because they know in the end that 157 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: they have confidence. And the confidence isn't that you will 158 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:58,839 Speaker 1: be right and be successful, but knowing that you will 159 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:00,839 Speaker 1: be okay no matter what outcome is going to be. 160 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: So do you think most leaders today across multiple industries 161 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 1: have enough a sense of urgency when it comes to 162 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: the tasks at hand. I don't think so, because oftentimes 163 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:22,559 Speaker 1: they're not really talking to their customers their stakeholders as 164 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:26,679 Speaker 1: much as they should. So customers, their employees, the supply 165 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: chain partners as well as the shareholders, so not talking 166 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: to them enough to really understand what their needs and 167 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: wants are, to understand what's really going on with what's urgent, 168 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: what's not. And because of that, because they don't have 169 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:46,199 Speaker 1: that constant conversation with people, it's easy to get focused 170 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: on just the way that you see the world and 171 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: not truly aware of everything that's actually going on. And 172 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: so I think that mindfulness requires this active pursuit of 173 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: what the truth is, the reality is out there. So 174 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: many leaders will say my biggest challenge is really understanding 175 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: what's really going on because I don't know what the 176 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: truth is. It's been filtered through so many places what's 177 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: really going on, Which is why again, my mindfulness is 178 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: so important to be able to dig through all that 179 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,679 Speaker 1: fog and be able to see what actually is happening. 180 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: And you talk about it in terms of setting impossible deadlines, 181 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: which I think is a really great way to look 182 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: at that. Yes, again, I was just talking to someone 183 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: on the phone. They're like, oh, I'll get back to 184 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: it in a couple of weeks, and like, why do 185 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: you need a couple of weeks. Why not talk about 186 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: this at the end of the week, tomorrow, maybe later 187 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,679 Speaker 1: this afternoon. What do you need a couple of weeks 188 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,719 Speaker 1: to figure this out. And so if you take your 189 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: time for like, oh, that would take like two months 190 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: to do, well, what if you only had two days? 191 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: What would you do? First, second, and third? And it's 192 00:11:57,559 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 1: not that you say you're going to do it in 193 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: two days, but it's a great exercise to say, if 194 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: I were to try to get done what would normally 195 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: take two months in two days, what would I do? 196 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 1: And what that does is it gives you a prioritize list, 197 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 1: like what's the most important thing we absolutely have to 198 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: get right, We're going to have this shortcut and everything. 199 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: Then slowly add things on just enough to get you 200 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: to the point where quality is going to be high 201 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: enough where you can be excellent, not perfect, but excellent. 202 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: And then that's your timeline. And I guarantee if it's 203 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 1: going to be a lesson what you originally thought it 204 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 1: was going to be. How do you think the workforce 205 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 1: a few years into obviously a pandemic is existing today 206 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: and will they ever return to a normal state of mind? 207 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: Did we have a normal before? So I'd always like 208 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: to ask what was normal, what was acceptable? I would 209 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: say that the normal before where we couldn't really talk 210 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: about what was going on in our lives, that we 211 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: had to check our personal lives at the door and 212 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:07,199 Speaker 1: not talk about that. I mean, COVID, we were literally 213 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: in each other's bedrooms. We saw all the messy sides 214 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: of things. We were seen as full, rich, imperfect humans 215 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: that we truly are, and we didn't have to go 216 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: through this facade of holies looking perfect all the time. 217 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: That's what COVID got Brit of, why would we go 218 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: back to that? And I think what COVID has done 219 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,319 Speaker 1: is really focus us on what's really important in our 220 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: lives and relationships that matter, and the type of relationships 221 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: we want to have at work. I do believe that 222 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: the Great Resignation happened because we realized there was a 223 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: different way to work, and people who were trying to 224 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: go back to the quote normal, we're seeing rebellion left 225 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: and right because people were like, I don't accept that 226 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: moment life. I don't want that. I want to work 227 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: at a place where I seen, I am understood as 228 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 1: a human, I am treated and respected that way, where 229 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: my employer wants to have a relationship with me, rather 230 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 1: than try to quote engage me as if I was 231 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: a monkey with a banana in front of me, you know, 232 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: And so I always think of that term employee engagement 233 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: as I'm in an experiment, you know, like you're going 234 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: to try to engage me by putting different treats in 235 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: front of me to see if I get engaged. No, 236 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: think about me as a human person with a purpose 237 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: and passions. There's alignment between what I want to accomplish 238 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: and what you want to accomplish, and treat me with 239 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: that respect. I have integrity in the relationship to tell 240 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: me really what's going on, and I will do the 241 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: same for you. Why is that so hard? But yet 242 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: we don't have these relationships. When the time is winding 243 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: down for our time to be working together, we sneak 244 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: off to have lunch with a friend instead of telling 245 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: our employer what I'm doing is no longer satisfactory. I'm 246 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 1: not learning and growing anymore. We put our heads down. 247 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: I don't ask about these things. We could be so 248 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: different And Charlotte and closing it in one word, how 249 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: can a leader foster optimism in their organization? Foster optimism 250 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: requires that you focus on the relationship. I just keep 251 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: coming back to this one word relationship. If you think 252 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: about you as a leader having a relationship with people, 253 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: what does that relationship have to look like? In order 254 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: to have optimism be in it. You have to have 255 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: optimism about who that person is, that they are there 256 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: to contribute their best and you are there to make 257 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: them their best to help them reach their full potential. 258 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: I mean, when I think about the purpose of my 259 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: company pay a Consulting, it is to use ingenuity, to 260 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: take hardness of power of ingenuity to build a positive 261 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: of human future. And my personal purpose is to create transformation, 262 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: to catalyze transformation, to maximize human potential. At the center 263 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: of all of that, it's this tremendous optimism that we 264 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: as leaders can actually build a better future for ourselves 265 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: or organizations for the people we work with. If you 266 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: fundamentally believe that you will craft relationships that will foster 267 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: that optimism. Charlene, I can't thank you enough for all 268 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: you do you give us on a regular basis. For 269 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: you taking a walk virtually here, I'd love to do 270 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: it in person sometime and your travels, but thank you 271 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: for your generosity and your inspiration. Thank you, Buzz always 272 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: great to talk with you. Thank you Taking a Walk 273 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: with Buzznight is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 274 00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.