Speaker 1: What I don't know, uh, sexually abusing my children through
Speaker 1: breakfast cereals. Yeah yeah, I'm Robert Evans. This is behind
Speaker 1: the Bastards and we're talking this this, this is an
Speaker 1: episode that's got to go in some bad places, dark places. Miles,
Speaker 1: how are you? I'm so sorry, Miat Miles here. How
Speaker 1: do you feel about cereal? Um, the like grain breakfast thing? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: the concept of the thing that you can like pour
Speaker 1: into a bowl at milk Yeah, right right? Love you know,
Speaker 1: love it. Loved it as a child. Don't don't have time,
Speaker 1: don't have time for it. Now it's an adult. Really
Speaker 1: really don't have time for cereal? You know what it is?
Speaker 1: I have, Like I go through streaks, so I'll open
Speaker 1: a box of cereal and then this ship is like
Speaker 1: stale because I didn't eat it, like within however long,
Speaker 1: I never want more than about a bowl. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'll do Like what happens is I'm high at the
Speaker 1: grocery store and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna eat rice
Speaker 1: crispy treat cereal, and I'll eat like a half a
Speaker 1: mixing bowl worth, and then I'll be so just disgusted
Speaker 1: because I used half and half as the milk that
Speaker 1: I put the cereal in the back st and then
Speaker 1: I'm like non and it it calls to me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm this. I was the same way back
Speaker 1: when I smoked pot. Those were my cereal days because
Speaker 1: I would I would. I would show up at like
Speaker 1: one of those twenty five hour grocery stores at one
Speaker 1: thirty in the morning, and I would buy the largest
Speaker 1: thing of marshmallow cereal and I would sit with a
Speaker 1: giant bole and a bong watching Star Trek the Next
Speaker 1: Generation and the eating and it was and it ruled
Speaker 1: some great memories of those days. Um, how do you
Speaker 1: feel about granola? Um? I My first thought is just
Speaker 1: a slang, you know, pejorative for hippies, you know, granola,
Speaker 1: But the food I like it. Talking. Are we talking
Speaker 1: like like bar are we talking? I mean, any any
Speaker 1: granola based product? Do you do a lot with granola?
Speaker 1: I think we can all agree, versatile Nature, Valley, Fanny yogurt.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, but really, thing, I'm sorry that my I'm
Speaker 1: so awkward. I mean, not only am I high, but
Speaker 1: like knowing you, I just don't like the path you're
Speaker 1: walking me down. Yeah, it's because it's just it's always
Speaker 1: just so fucked up, and you started, that's a serial
Speaker 1: talking about Robert. Serial serial killers, not serial killers. Worse
Speaker 1: than a serial killer. Though. The fun thing about today's episode, Miles,
Speaker 1: is that the bastard we're talking about has either helped
Speaker 1: to invent or popularize a variety of products that I'm
Speaker 1: going to guess about a hundred percent of the people
Speaker 1: listening to the show have enjoyed. So everyone listening this
Speaker 1: to this has benefited in some way from something this
Speaker 1: man either invented or popularized. Uh. Now, the guy we're
Speaker 1: talking about was also a hugely prominent eugenicist and a
Speaker 1: prolific advocate of female genital mutilation. Um so yeah, we
Speaker 1: are this is gonna be like the elevators. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: are talking about John Harvey Kellogg. I feel like, I mean,
Speaker 1: because I know vaguely, like it's all very fucking people.
Speaker 1: Most people have heard little bits of this. It's like
Speaker 1: he's like, Yo, here's some sex shit and he made
Speaker 1: corn flakes to stop kids from fucking. Yeah, Like that's
Speaker 1: like one of the things I'm that you know, I
Speaker 1: hear everyone and from the cracked orbit here, I've heard
Speaker 1: that sort of line many times from it's much deeper
Speaker 1: and much worse than that. Okay, uh yeah, yeah. So
Speaker 1: before we started on his life, we need to give
Speaker 1: a little bit of background about where this guy came from,
Speaker 1: because there's a lot of different strains of thought in
Speaker 1: in the American uh mind that kind of led to
Speaker 1: the birth of John Harvey Kellogg as the person that
Speaker 1: he became. Um, do you know much about Seventh Day Adventismuh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know a little bit about s d A. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, but not much like I just know about like, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, they're they give out food, they give out food.
Speaker 1: They believe that Saturday, not Sunday, is the Lord's Day,
Speaker 1: that's the Seventh Day part and they you know, they
Speaker 1: believe the apocalypse is imminent, and they kind of have
Speaker 1: for a long time. Yeah, okay, right, right right. That's
Speaker 1: which today is like half of the religious right. But
Speaker 1: back in it when they came about was kind of
Speaker 1: a new idea. Some of them also believe that going
Speaker 1: to doctors is evil. That's not like a mainstream belief necessarily,
Speaker 1: but it's like a trend through Seventh Day Adventist thought.
Speaker 1: And we're gonna talk about why for a little bit. So,
Speaker 1: the Seventh day Adventists are are a miller Wite sect,
Speaker 1: and the miller Wites were a religious movement that started
Speaker 1: in eighteen sixteen. Whenever Vermont farmer named William Miller converted
Speaker 1: from being kind of like a skeptical deist, like a
Speaker 1: lot like like Ben Franklin, right, Like, that's the guy
Speaker 1: he got. He got killed hard on the Baptist faith
Speaker 1: and um because he was this kind of rational skeptic guy.
Speaker 1: Once he became a believer, he had to believe that
Speaker 1: the Bible was fundamentally rational and internally consistent. Now it's not.
Speaker 1: So you can see how this would be a problem
Speaker 1: for him or how this would lead to problems. Um.
Speaker 1: So he set to work trying to prove the inherent
Speaker 1: rationality of the Bible, and this very quickly led him
Speaker 1: to a bad place. After about two years of this,
Speaker 1: he'd gone full conspiracy corkboard Pepe Sylvia on the whole
Speaker 1: issue and convinced himself that the Bible was filled with
Speaker 1: numerical clues hidden in different books that revealed the exact
Speaker 1: date and time of the apocalypse. He's the first guy
Speaker 1: to do this, like biblical numerology. He's like that there's
Speaker 1: a hidden date if you is he like one of
Speaker 1: the first who's like one of the first sort of
Speaker 1: conspiratorial numerologists. Like, I don't know if he's one of
Speaker 1: the freaking new ground to be like there's code in here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's hidden numbers in the Bible that predict the end time.
Speaker 1: He's like, I think pretty much the first guy who
Speaker 1: does good for him. Yeah, I know, right, goods sold
Speaker 1: in a weird way. If I was at Sea Pack,
Speaker 1: I think I would drop that if that was like
Speaker 1: I was, you know, I was the first guy to
Speaker 1: start counting the number of letters and words and verses
Speaker 1: of the Bible. Actually, no, mother, that's actually my great
Speaker 1: grandfather to check Wikipedia. Dude, don't tell me about secret
Speaker 1: Bible codes. My family in vinced secret Bible codes. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, Hey Bill, this guys trying to tell me
Speaker 1: about biblical fucking numerology. Me. I imagine the Miller's moved
Speaker 1: from Vermont to New York at some point they're just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: then they're in the elevator's union. Yeah. So, unlike everyone
Speaker 1: at Sea Pack, Miller was not a grifter. He was
Speaker 1: a he did believe in all of this. He wasn't
Speaker 1: like trying to get rich, and he waited a lot.
Speaker 1: Once he became convinced he'd figured out the date of
Speaker 1: the end of the world, he waited years to share
Speaker 1: his discovery with people because he didn't want to like
Speaker 1: create a panic. He decided the world was going to
Speaker 1: end in eighteen forty three, and as the year approached,
Speaker 1: he started to grow convinced that and like heard voices
Speaker 1: and stuff got God wanted him to warn people, right,
Speaker 1: So he keeps quiet for a while, but decides, like
Speaker 1: God wants me to tell people the end is coming
Speaker 1: so they can have their souls saved. So in eighteen
Speaker 1: thirty one he starts preaching and giving public speeches laying
Speaker 1: out his work, which was convincing to a lot of people,
Speaker 1: because back then, if you knew what numbers were, you
Speaker 1: seemed like a genius to at least half of the population,
Speaker 1: So a lot of people get get pulled in on this.
Speaker 1: Miller taught his growing circle of followers that everyone who
Speaker 1: wasn't saved when the in date came would be incinerated
Speaker 1: along with the entire planet. He started preaching in Dresden,
Speaker 1: New York, and he soon hired an effective publicist and
Speaker 1: was giving speeches up and down the East coast by
Speaker 1: eighteen forty years so he had a newspaper called The
Speaker 1: Signs of the Times, which he used to spread his
Speaker 1: beliefs and mass to audiences whould never have been able
Speaker 1: to hear him speak. His actual number of followers was
Speaker 1: probably in the low tens of thousands, but Miller's ideas
Speaker 1: were influential and widely discussed in the popular culture of
Speaker 1: the day. The mainstream press wrote about his theories regularly.
Speaker 1: As eighteen forty three drew nie, people started to ask, Hey,
Speaker 1: what win exactly in eighteen forty three should we expect
Speaker 1: all life on earth to end? The fireball? Now? Miller's
Speaker 1: answer was precise, but not super accurate. Um he said
Speaker 1: that it would occur in the Jewish year eighteen forty three,
Speaker 1: which was apparently between March one, eighteen forty three and
Speaker 1: March eighteen forty four. I don't know enough about Judaism
Speaker 1: to tell you if that is the actual Jewish year
Speaker 1: of eighteen thirty three. Uh So that's what he said, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's way far ahead. It seems wrong to me,
Speaker 1: but I that's what he was telling people at least. Ye, yeah,
Speaker 1: because I think right now it's in the Hebrew years
Speaker 1: fifty seven eighty one. Yeah. See, I I think he was.
Speaker 1: I don't think he knew my about Judius Sam. He
Speaker 1: got away with that ship, but no one did. No
Speaker 1: one in America did back then. You know. I love that,
Speaker 1: you know, because like that would be I think, what
Speaker 1: fifties six so three? Yeah, no, no, no, it's the Jewish,
Speaker 1: Like what the just March? Yeah, like he's up, bro,
Speaker 1: that's wild. Oh you know Jewish people, they love March,
Speaker 1: big month. Yeah, okay, fine, that's like when you know
Speaker 1: the first time that when you switch up calendars on
Speaker 1: someone for like the arrival date, that everyone should be like,
Speaker 1: this is ship but okay maybe this was. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: um spoilers here, Miles, in case you haven't gotten to
Speaker 1: the end of your eighteen forty three history book. But
Speaker 1: the world did not end that year. Um, not that
Speaker 1: I'm aware of, um signs point to know. Um. So yeah.
Speaker 1: The fact that all life didn't end in in in
Speaker 1: fire was a bummer for Miller and his followers, But
Speaker 1: being a humble man, he was the kind of person
Speaker 1: who was willing to admit that he had screwed up
Speaker 1: on his counting and missed the exact date of the apocalypse.
Speaker 1: Even so, he insisted the end was still very much nigh.
Speaker 1: He just like flipped a digit or two. So he
Speaker 1: kept on preaching, and his followers mostly stayed dedicated to
Speaker 1: the message. One of them, a fellow named Samuel Snow,
Speaker 1: did his own calculations and suggested an alternate date for
Speaker 1: the end of all things October eighteen forty four, which
Speaker 1: he said was the Jewish day of Atonement. And again,
Speaker 1: I don't know if it was, um, but that's what
Speaker 1: he said. Uh. Many Adventists clung to this in order
Speaker 1: to have hope that they'd been right all along. When
Speaker 1: October twenty two passed without everyone and everything dying, they
Speaker 1: were heartbroken. And he's a tough time for them. Um. Now,
Speaker 1: the miller Wites were definitely kind of a cult. But
Speaker 1: it has to be said William Miller himself seems to
Speaker 1: have been a guy, like a decent person who truly
Speaker 1: believed when he was preaching. Because when two end times
Speaker 1: dates passed without the times ending, he was consumed by
Speaker 1: shame and he spent the rest of his life hiding
Speaker 1: from the world. That's good. Oh man, that that's dope.
Speaker 1: That's that's dope. That's great. That's what you're supposed to do.
Speaker 1: That's what scumbags of honor used to do. I mean,
Speaker 1: the jig was up and off. You thought the world
Speaker 1: was ending. You were wrong. You spent the rest of
Speaker 1: your life hiding in your basement. Yeah. And to his followers,
Speaker 1: which had sort of one of the things people call
Speaker 1: them was Adventists. To the Adventists, this failed apocalypse prediction
Speaker 1: became known as the Great Disappointment. So they're real bummed
Speaker 1: out about this. But while William Miller had the good
Speaker 1: graces to hide his face from the world when he
Speaker 1: was proven wrong, the movement he had spawned did not
Speaker 1: die out as a result of the Great Disappointment. In fact,
Speaker 1: it seemed to have only grown stronger in the face
Speaker 1: of unequinical proof that its founder was wrong about everything.
Speaker 1: Adventists kept having meetings and kept trying to figure out
Speaker 1: when the world was going to end. In eighteen forty eight,
Speaker 1: Ellen White and her husband some Guy, attended a conference
Speaker 1: of Adventists in rural New York. This was a year
Speaker 1: before William Miller's death and about five years after he'd
Speaker 1: gone into hiding, so things were not going great for
Speaker 1: the Adventists. In the main topic of debate for the
Speaker 1: conference that year was whether or not Miller's prophecies had
Speaker 1: even been real. Right. Obviously, the date had been wrong,
Speaker 1: but like, was he completely full of ship or did
Speaker 1: he just like mess up some numbers a couple of times?
Speaker 1: Um so, yeah. One chunk of the Adventists argued that
Speaker 1: Miller had been right and that Christ had come back
Speaker 1: on October forty four, but that he had done so
Speaker 1: in spiritual form and he hadn't destroyed the world. Um
Speaker 1: so he was right about the date, but Jesus did
Speaker 1: it invisibly said nobody noticed? Fuck yes, And that's a
Speaker 1: good ship. That's some twe logic, Like, that's the logic
Speaker 1: that dictates all life in America today. That cutting edge, amazing,
Speaker 1: and people took that ship. That's when it's a rap.
Speaker 1: That's some Joe Biden and Trump switched faces and Trump
Speaker 1: is still the president likely, Oh my god, unbelievable invisibly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that makes ye like like if I had been at
Speaker 1: that meeting, I would have just stood up and started
Speaker 1: clapping like you you did it. You invented America. You
Speaker 1: motherfuck are you beautiful? Bats? Oh? I was there, I
Speaker 1: was there. Shirts fucking logic failed forever. This is the
Speaker 1: breaking of the world. Yeah, so good, So another Oh
Speaker 1: my God, and again, and then it's continued by people
Speaker 1: who are unwilling to admit they're wrong. So not it
Speaker 1: becomes a religion because this group ego is unrelenting. It's
Speaker 1: so good. But now it was like, but how do
Speaker 1: they live so long? I want that eventually this will
Speaker 1: terminate in somebody firing new clear warheads into the sky
Speaker 1: because invisible aliens are molesting our children or something, and
Speaker 1: that will be the end of all life on earth.
Speaker 1: And it's going to be very funny in the last
Speaker 1: like four and a half seconds. Um. So, there was
Speaker 1: another sect at the meeting, led by a guy named
Speaker 1: Hiram Edson, and they taught that the date Miller had
Speaker 1: calculated was the date of a heavenly event, not a
Speaker 1: terrestrial event, and that Christ had destroyed sin within what
Speaker 1: they called the Heavenly Sanctuary, which I think is basically
Speaker 1: heaven in eighteen forty three in order to prepare his
Speaker 1: way to his return to Earth. Um. This became known
Speaker 1: as the Sanctuary doctrine, and it basically argued that Christ
Speaker 1: had gotten caught up in cleaning up heaven and it
Speaker 1: had delayed him from landing on Earth and destroying all
Speaker 1: life in in in hell fire. Um. So both of
Speaker 1: the explanations are invisible. Things happened and we were right,
Speaker 1: but it was invisible. They actually go against even what
Speaker 1: the beliefs are of, like what they believe Christ to be, God,
Speaker 1: to be omnipotent, omniscient, omni because it seems that way.
Speaker 1: So if you are omniscient, you're all knowing, all powerful
Speaker 1: and fucking everywhere and nowhere and all of that ship
Speaker 1: at once. You're like, hey, motherfucker, hold up, man, I
Speaker 1: gotta clean some ship up. It's gonna fucking a little bit. Man,
Speaker 1: there's some problems if you only fucking new. I'm serious,
Speaker 1: if you only fucking new, I won't even tell y'all,
Speaker 1: but I'll be there in a second. I'd be like, dude,
Speaker 1: I think Christ has a drug problem or something like
Speaker 1: what the fun is going on? It's always what is
Speaker 1: he doing? Is he like? Is he just doing a
Speaker 1: bunch of k every night? And waking up six hours later.
Speaker 1: Things does he does? He walk around with a spray
Speaker 1: bottle in a flash leg trying to find always shooting
Speaker 1: up his nose. I think we've both known about four Jesus. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm familiar with Christ. Here with Christ. Oh God. So
Speaker 1: so this meeting goes on, and as I said, Ellen
Speaker 1: White is there this lady Ellen White who as a
Speaker 1: little bit of a heads up in her early childhood,
Speaker 1: had a traumatic brain injury. This will become relevant later.
Speaker 1: So Ellen White is listening to these two different sects
Speaker 1: debate at this conference, and she has a vision, and
Speaker 1: I will remind you she also has a traumatic brain injury.
Speaker 1: And she has this vision, which she becomes convinced as
Speaker 1: a prophecy from God tells her that the sanctuary doctrine
Speaker 1: is correct. So basically here him goes up on stage
Speaker 1: and proposes this theory, and then she shouts out, God
Speaker 1: just told me you're right, and I'm a prophet. Now
Speaker 1: from this point forward, Ellen and her husband are like
Speaker 1: become major fixtures within the Adventist movement. And she starts
Speaker 1: predicting dates for the coming earthly apocalypse and these dates
Speaker 1: are all wrong. But by this point Miller Wrights were
Speaker 1: used to their profits being wrong, and it didn't hurt
Speaker 1: her credibility in any way. By eighteen fifty, she made
Speaker 1: the very wise decision to urge her fellow adventists to
Speaker 1: stop predicting the exact date of the end of the world,
Speaker 1: which is a good call. Um. So that's where we
Speaker 1: are now. I'm leaving some stuff out, but that's the
Speaker 1: gist of the Ellen White story. Yeah that's good, I mean,
Speaker 1: somewhat responsible, getting people real hot and ready, and then
Speaker 1: just you're like, you know what, let's not do that.
Speaker 1: Still that for a second. I can be wrong about this,
Speaker 1: I can't be wrong about other things. Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 1: You know what? God just yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah? What
Speaker 1: how you didn't see it? That should just fucking happened.
Speaker 1: Just happened. How fucking dare you even? Like, what were
Speaker 1: you about to say? Because I'm telling you that's what
Speaker 1: God just said? Okay, asshole? So and what was a
Speaker 1: great move From a branding standpoint, Ellen basically argued that
Speaker 1: all Adventists needed to know was that the end was
Speaker 1: coming soon, and their job was to bring as many
Speaker 1: people as possible to Christ before that time. Proselyzation became
Speaker 1: an increasingly huge deal from this point forward. One of
Speaker 1: the hotspots from miller Wite recruitment is Michigan, and that's
Speaker 1: where in eighteen fifty two an adventist Michigan is the
Speaker 1: West at this point, it's where people are moving. It's
Speaker 1: like the big, exciting new place, and it's also kind
Speaker 1: of like, you know, people, the reason white colonizers came
Speaker 1: to the North America in the first place was like
Speaker 1: they believed also, it's a weird religious ship that like
Speaker 1: wasn't quite cool over in Europe, so they came here
Speaker 1: to do their weird religious ship. And then when people
Speaker 1: had weird religious ideas in the new United States, that
Speaker 1: kind of moved to Michigan to do it because it
Speaker 1: was off the beaten past, like makes a lot of
Speaker 1: my relatives make a lot more sense. That is the
Speaker 1: birth of Michigan as people being like, you know, we're
Speaker 1: a little bit too weird for the eastern seaboard. Let's
Speaker 1: let's move Inland a little bit. Yeah, you know what,
Speaker 1: maybe we should go over here for a little bit.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's gonna work over here. I think
Speaker 1: all the snow and big lakes will will make it
Speaker 1: real easy for us to to believe weird things about Jesus.
Speaker 1: So man who's just a little bit busy right now,
Speaker 1: he'll be back in one moment, even gets busy. In
Speaker 1: eighteen fifty two, an Adventist named Merritt Cornell converted a
Speaker 1: Fellon named John Preston Kellogg, who was the subject of
Speaker 1: today's episode. The Kellogg family had moved to Michigan in
Speaker 1: the early eighteen forties, and their early years were pretty
Speaker 1: standard for white colonizers in the era. John's first wife, Mary,
Speaker 1: had died of typhoid or consumption or some weird old
Speaker 1: time as she died horribly. John himself went through a
Speaker 1: series of religious conversions because there's all these weird, little
Speaker 1: different niche faiths in Michigan. Uh And in eighteen fifty two,
Speaker 1: though he settles on Seventh Day Adventism, things being what
Speaker 1: they were back then, his family converted with him because
Speaker 1: they didn't really have any other choice, And on February
Speaker 1: eighteen fifty two, his family came to include a little
Speaker 1: baby named John Harvey Kellogg. Now, John Harvey's earliest memories
Speaker 1: would have heavily involved the Adventist faith. In eighteen fifty five,
Speaker 1: his father pledged three hundred dollars, which is a lot
Speaker 1: of money in those days, to help start up the
Speaker 1: first Adventist printing press in Michigan, because again, putting out magazine,
Speaker 1: beans and pamphlets is a big part of the Adventist faith.
Speaker 1: That's how they recruit people. So he worked directly with
Speaker 1: James White, who's the husband of Ellen White, who was
Speaker 1: at that point basically the spiritual head of the faith.
Speaker 1: The press was established in Battle Creek, Michigan, a small
Speaker 1: city with a reputation for being accepting of weird religious movements.
Speaker 1: Making this pledge to fund the printing press inspired John
Speaker 1: Preston Kellogg to move his family across the state to
Speaker 1: Battle Creek. Little Johnny Kellogg was about four years old
Speaker 1: when this happened, and he was one of sixteen children.
Speaker 1: Uh family finances were stretched in their very crowded household.
Speaker 1: His father operated a broom factory, but any spare money
Speaker 1: he had went to the church. His dad had a
Speaker 1: strict work ethic, and he demanded the same from his kids.
Speaker 1: John Harvey Kellogg later recalled his upbringing as sad and solemn,
Speaker 1: which is some very Michigan. I'll say that, you know
Speaker 1: sad and yeah, well it kind of sounds like a
Speaker 1: bummer thing to be raised around as a kid, like
Speaker 1: is there any fun if like you're just being like
Speaker 1: fun when the apocalypse is coming and you have no
Speaker 1: money because your dad spends it paying for the religion
Speaker 1: to be able to make books because he's the shitty banksy.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, ship Banksy. So uh. And he was also
Speaker 1: pretty sick. John Harvey Kellogg was from most of his childhood.
Speaker 1: He had a bad diet, His family eight really unhealthily,
Speaker 1: and he suffered from rickets for years. He grew up
Speaker 1: small and thin. Uh. He would top out at just
Speaker 1: five ft four, So he was he's not a healthy
Speaker 1: little kid. Uh. And I'm gonna quote now from a
Speaker 1: book titled John Harvey Kellogg and the Religion of Biologic
Speaker 1: Living by Brian Wilson. Dr Brian Wilson quote. He would
Speaker 1: compensate for his physical shortcomings by energy, assertiveness, and a
Speaker 1: burning ambition to do something with his life, although he
Speaker 1: knew this would not be easy for a boy on
Speaker 1: the frontier. According to Kellogg's later recollections, his parents prevented
Speaker 1: him from learning to read because given the imminence of
Speaker 1: the end of the world, acquiring such skills would be
Speaker 1: a waste of time. Yeah you need books. Yeah, oh no,
Speaker 1: that's so fun. It's it's really you know what I
Speaker 1: mean to have such a fucking cynical worldview where it's
Speaker 1: like the world's ending, so honestly, like I can just
Speaker 1: neglect everything that's and that's just it. But then you
Speaker 1: have like a kid who's you know, maybe needs some
Speaker 1: nutrients and like, yeah, you can read food, some reading. Um,
Speaker 1: it does it does get better because when he's twelve,
Speaker 1: a local pastor who may may have been James White, uh,
Speaker 1: decided that quote if the Lord was going to come
Speaker 1: soon and in the world, he would be more pleased
Speaker 1: if he found children in school, which at least is
Speaker 1: a healthier set of logic than the world's ending. You
Speaker 1: don't need to read. Um. So Kellogg like as soon
Speaker 1: as he's allowed to go to school, he basically spinds
Speaker 1: an entire winter. It's like stuck in the neighborhoods schoolhouse. Um,
Speaker 1: he's a he's an auto diet act. He's very good
Speaker 1: at learning, and he catches up very quickly. He just
Speaker 1: reads constantly he's clearly a very smart boy. Um quote. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So he compensated for his physical difficulties with kind of
Speaker 1: a relentless sense of self confidence as well. He was
Speaker 1: loud and assertive from a young age. One minister who
Speaker 1: knew him at the time described him as a bright, sturdy, active,
Speaker 1: wide awake boy. In eighteen sixty three, when he was
Speaker 1: twelve years old, his mother asked him what he wanted
Speaker 1: to be when he grew up. Brian Wilson writes, quote,
Speaker 1: he promptly yelled anything but a doctor. Apparently shortly before
Speaker 1: his mother's question, John Harvey and some other boys had
Speaker 1: pressed their faces against a neighbor's window to witness the
Speaker 1: bloody spectacle of a local sawbones practicing his art on
Speaker 1: one of their playmates lying on a kitchen table. In
Speaker 1: the wake of this episode, Kellogg remembered, I abhorred the
Speaker 1: idea of the medical profession. Did not like bad medicine
Speaker 1: and the bloody surgery that just a few years later
Speaker 1: the young boy would find himself a famous doctor and
Speaker 1: a surgeon at that must have given the elderly Kellogg
Speaker 1: a chuckle, for, in addition to his childhood discussed at
Speaker 1: the sight of blood. He had been at at the
Speaker 1: age eleven, nothing more than an undersized boy working in
Speaker 1: his father's Battle Creek broom factory, distinguished only by his
Speaker 1: exceptional manual dexterity sorting broomcorn, and the fact that his
Speaker 1: family belonged to his struggling apocalyptic sect significantly. Dr Kellogg
Speaker 1: followed this memory with that of another. Shortly after his
Speaker 1: mother asked him about his future in life, the boy
Speaker 1: had come upon her praying for his future. I went
Speaker 1: in and knelt down beside her, and she placed her
Speaker 1: hand on my head as we knelt there, and she
Speaker 1: dedicated me to the Lord for human service. So that's
Speaker 1: kind of the pivotal moment of this kid's life. She
Speaker 1: asked him what he wants to be. He says, I
Speaker 1: don't want to be a doctor. And then a couple
Speaker 1: of days later and he doesn't want to be a
Speaker 1: doctor because he sees what doctors are doing in the
Speaker 1: eighteen sixties pretty ugly. And then a few days later
Speaker 1: he catches his mom praying and she like puts her
Speaker 1: hand on him and dedicates him to serving the human race.
Speaker 1: And God, Robert, you know who else will serve the
Speaker 1: human race? And God. Definitely not Raytheon, absolutely not Raytheon.
Speaker 1: Uhon's only motto is we do not serve God. Um,
Speaker 1: it's time for some ads. It is time for an
Speaker 1: added two, maybe three, maybe four. We're back, so uh yeah.
Speaker 1: From that moment forward, his mom dedicates him to human service,
Speaker 1: and Kellogg would later recall that basically, from that point forward,
Speaker 1: he never had any desire but to serve the Lord
Speaker 1: in the human race. He got his first chance about,
Speaker 1: you know, several months later, when James White noticed how
Speaker 1: intelligent this kid was and asked him to come be
Speaker 1: unpaid labor at the Adventist publishing house in town. John
Speaker 1: Harvey became an apprentice, and he spent the next four
Speaker 1: years being drawn closer and closer into the inner circle
Speaker 1: of the Prophetess Ellen White. He was promoted rapidly, and
Speaker 1: it kind of seems like they decided, this kid is
Speaker 1: so smart, he's got to do something for the faith.
Speaker 1: We're going to like groom him for leadership within within
Speaker 1: our weird little apocalyptic colt um. He was promoted rapidly,
Speaker 1: and by the time he was sixteen, he had been
Speaker 1: made an editor of the Adventist newspaper. John Harvey loved religion,
Speaker 1: and he particularly loved what most people would call the
Speaker 1: boring niche de tails of theological debate. His love of
Speaker 1: this brought him into direct contact with Ellen White, who
Speaker 1: took a liking to him. Her husband eventually confided in
Speaker 1: The Boy that his wife had received a vision from
Speaker 1: God that John Harvey Kellogg was to play a crucial
Speaker 1: role in the Lord's work. So you can kind of
Speaker 1: see how this grooming process is going. Uh, yes, it's
Speaker 1: a lot of pressure, a lot of pressure for the Lord.
Speaker 1: They're they're really putting a lot on this kid's shoulders.
Speaker 1: And from age seventeen to twenty, John Harvey Kellogg continued
Speaker 1: his work on The Adventist Review and Harold. He also
Speaker 1: started teaching grammar school before he had actually finished high
Speaker 1: school himself, which is I guess the thing you could
Speaker 1: do back in those days. Uh, he was kids, Yeah,
Speaker 1: while you're still in high school. Yeah, I'm about to
Speaker 1: wrap that degree up. But here's the deal. Kids learn
Speaker 1: letters here. Um. He was, by all accounts a good teacher,
Speaker 1: and for several years it was clear to everyone that
Speaker 1: John Harvey's future was going to lie in education. He
Speaker 1: even told everyone he received a waking vision from God
Speaker 1: that this was to be his calling. But when Johnny
Speaker 1: was twenty, Ellen Whitehead herself yet another vision. This one
Speaker 1: was that John Harvey Kellogg was going to become a physician.
Speaker 1: So he wants to be a teacher. He really likes teaching.
Speaker 1: He's this is the whole like thing he's he's patterning
Speaker 1: his life for for years. And then the prophetess with
Speaker 1: a brain injury sees God tell her this kid is
Speaker 1: going to be a doctor, the thing he least wants
Speaker 1: to be in the entire world. So this brings me
Speaker 1: to another long digression, Miles, because physician meant meant a
Speaker 1: different thing to Ellen white than it does to you
Speaker 1: or me, and then it did to most people in
Speaker 1: the United States when she said it, right, Yeah, how
Speaker 1: when when you say doctor you imagine like a guy
Speaker 1: who treats illnesses with a variety of medicines. Right, There's
Speaker 1: no fucking way that there you have any other definition
Speaker 1: that isn't a doctor dre or Dr Pepper. Joke of
Speaker 1: what a fucking doctor is her Her definition of doctor
Speaker 1: was a guy who gives people different kinds of baths. Yeah.
Speaker 1: To explain why, Miles wants to talk about what we
Speaker 1: have to talk about. An intellectual movement in America in
Speaker 1: the mid eighteen hundreds called sectarian medicine. So medicine in
Speaker 1: the early eighteen hundreds was mostly nonsense and poison, right.
Speaker 1: We talked about this a lot on the show. UM,
Speaker 1: But it's important to know that a lot of regular
Speaker 1: people recognize that doctors were bad at their jobs, like
Speaker 1: the fact that they were eighteen thirties medical treatments were
Speaker 1: basically just bleeding people and feeding the mercury, and this
Speaker 1: was bad and a lot of people at the time
Speaker 1: we're like, kind of seems like the doctors don't do
Speaker 1: anything to kill people, and then like something was wrong
Speaker 1: with your like a cough and they saw your foot off.
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like they're good at this. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So it's it's like in a big like purgatives are
Speaker 1: a big part of medicine, like the idea that like
Speaker 1: you're sick, you must be filled with poison, will give
Speaker 1: you things that make you vomit and ship instantly. He
Speaker 1: died of vomiting and shifting. H Well, the thing is
Speaker 1: supposed to do the opposite thing. Will dial it back
Speaker 1: next time. Alright, so you got the same thing, all right,
Speaker 1: here we go, here we go, do a little less
Speaker 1: this time, or a little more. Maybe we didn't give
Speaker 1: him enough. Uh Now. Such treatments were called heroic medicine
Speaker 1: because the doctors who saw what they were doing, which
Speaker 1: was poisoning people, as engaging in a violent battle with disease.
Speaker 1: So like, yeah, we're giving people these poisons mercury and
Speaker 1: strychnine and the like, But these poisons are necessary because
Speaker 1: you have a disease and the poison has to fight
Speaker 1: the disease, right, which you can see is is both
Speaker 1: wrong but not on the wrong track of thought, because
Speaker 1: it is like like cancer, chemotherapy is bad for you.
Speaker 1: You don't like, you wouldn't want to get chemo, but
Speaker 1: it's a poison that kills the worst poison, you know,
Speaker 1: So there is medicine that work. Like you can see
Speaker 1: the doctors at the time they were entirely on the
Speaker 1: wrong thinking track. They were just like, but you don't
Speaker 1: get people mercury because they have a cough. No, I
Speaker 1: wonder what the funk were they seeing where they're like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that ship works, dude, you hit him with some more.
Speaker 1: And they had stuff that did work too. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's hard to sime, like you gotta
Speaker 1: look at a data set at some point and be like, man,
Speaker 1: my bad average, isn't I don't think there were not
Speaker 1: a lot of data sets at the tip, No, but
Speaker 1: I mean in this in their own like even just
Speaker 1: thinking back, like they'll look back and you're like, I
Speaker 1: have lost a lot of people, and I can actually
Speaker 1: kind of remember only a couple of times I helped
Speaker 1: to save someone. Seriously, I think the level of drunk
Speaker 1: that every doctor was it played a role in this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because you're like a weird fucking butcher slash like star
Speaker 1: of a West Craven film. Like you're limorting on opium
Speaker 1: all the time, and you're letting the neighborhood kids watch
Speaker 1: you cut their friends leg off through a window. It's
Speaker 1: all a weird scene. Yeah, it's it's not great. So um, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is heroic medicine, the sawing people's legs and poisoning
Speaker 1: them things. I'm a hero. Jesus Christ and a lot
Speaker 1: of people thought this was bullshit, and throughout the mid
Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, a new school of medical thought arose that
Speaker 1: rejected this and focused instead on the healing power of nature,
Speaker 1: and this came to be known as sectarian medicine. Um.
Speaker 1: So Orthodox physicians would use heroic medicine to battle illness,
Speaker 1: sectarian doctors would use natural remedies to bring the body
Speaker 1: back into balance. And this may not sound too bad, right,
Speaker 1: because there are like I don't know which hazel does
Speaker 1: some ship like Thailand all comes from a plant that
Speaker 1: you can you can make a tea that'll do the
Speaker 1: same thing. Time. There's all sorts of natural remedies comfrey
Speaker 1: and yarrow and plantain that really do have beneficial effects,
Speaker 1: which is why like native American medicine worked a lot
Speaker 1: better than many kinds of western medicine. And yeah, your
Speaker 1: friends leg off, yeah, um, but that's not what they
Speaker 1: were talking about when they talked about natural remedies. They
Speaker 1: what they were it was what they thought was natural,
Speaker 1: which was not like, yeah, so the natural physicians, the
Speaker 1: sectarian doctors, believed that keeping people healthy was about restoring
Speaker 1: natural balance. Um. And some of this was in fact
Speaker 1: good medicine. A lot of it meant like, well, people
Speaker 1: need to get enough sunlight, people need to get enough exercise,
Speaker 1: people need to get enough vitamins. That's not bad, you know, right,
Speaker 1: track so far, okay um. But sectarian doctors also believed
Speaker 1: a lot of nonsense themselves because people didn't know anything
Speaker 1: back then. They boiled nearly all health problems down to
Speaker 1: an imbalance with one of six things air, diet, evacuations,
Speaker 1: sleep cycles, exercise, and peace of mind. So one of
Speaker 1: the most popular physicians of the Sectarian school was a
Speaker 1: fellow named Sylvester Graham, father of the Graham Cracker. Although
Speaker 1: you would not have wanted to eat the Graham crackers
Speaker 1: that he made for reasons that we will get into
Speaker 1: god a good episode, it's it gets so bad. So
Speaker 1: remember when I said sectarian doctors focused on natural medicine
Speaker 1: and bringing the body back into balance. Well, one thing
Speaker 1: a lot of them believed was that the body got
Speaker 1: taken out of balance when you masturbated, because obviously you're ejaculating, right,
Speaker 1: You're you're losing a fluid which must be taking your
Speaker 1: body out of balance and making you sick. Right, I
Speaker 1: think that's where the logic line started and keep it
Speaker 1: you gotta keep it in no fat This is actually
Speaker 1: a very no fap episode. It is the same logic
Speaker 1: that proud boys, but like that, like you will be
Speaker 1: at a certain point, or that you'll you'll go crazy
Speaker 1: and kill yourself if you come. But if you don't, though,
Speaker 1: like aren't you then hadn't thought of that part? Well,
Speaker 1: actually some of them did believe that the reason people
Speaker 1: in the Bible lived to be eight hundred years old,
Speaker 1: perfect balance and never came. Yeah, so yes, actually, Miles,
Speaker 1: that's exactly right, the virgin logic logic. I'm actually forever.
Speaker 1: I mean, John Harvey Kellogg spoilers is an in cell.
Speaker 1: So we're going I'm gonna quote from a write up
Speaker 1: in the Journal of Technology and Culture about the the
Speaker 1: the evolution of sectarian physicians beliefs about masturbation. Quote. The
Speaker 1: source of these beliefs can be traced back to an
Speaker 1: eighteenth century Swiss physician S. A. D. Too So. Too
Speaker 1: So taught that one of the basic causes of illness
Speaker 1: and death was the wasting away of body energy. The
Speaker 1: most dangerous of such wastes, and yet the one that
Speaker 1: could be controlled was that brought on by masturbation. Those
Speaker 1: who masturbated would soon have a cloudiness of ideas, suffer
Speaker 1: a decay of their bodily power. Experience acute pains in
Speaker 1: their head, be afflicted with pimples on their face, and
Speaker 1: eventually lose the power of generation. Females were likely to
Speaker 1: be subject to hysterical fits, violent cramps, ulceration of the matrix.
Speaker 1: I don't know what the matrix meant in this situation.
Speaker 1: I'm guessing that's like the uterates. But yeah, that's what
Speaker 1: a fucking term. Oh my god, the matrix. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: also the opposite of correct, just in terms of what
Speaker 1: masturbation can do for cramps. But yeah. So. Tisso's ideas
Speaker 1: reached America at the end of the eighteenth century through
Speaker 1: the works of a guy named Benjamin Rush, who was
Speaker 1: the dominant medical voice in the United States during the
Speaker 1: Revolutionary period and was a signer of the Declaration of Independence.
Speaker 1: Rush taught that all disease could be reduced to one
Speaker 1: basic causal model bodily energy. Either did either the dim
Speaker 1: mutation in or increase of such energy led to disease.
Speaker 1: Dim Mutation of energy led to direct debility, while increase
Speaker 1: led to indirectability. Once the nervous system was weakened, it
Speaker 1: was susceptible to illness and disease, so the whole idea
Speaker 1: is balanced. You lose balance one way or the other,
Speaker 1: you're gonna get sick. Rush concluded, based on observation that
Speaker 1: sex was a major cause of nervous excitement and was
Speaker 1: thus extremely dangerous. Basically, people seem to get excited when
Speaker 1: they're fucking. That can't be good on No, none of that,
Speaker 1: none of that. You can't have that. The matrix is
Speaker 1: at stake. The matrix could go out of whack. Uh.
Speaker 1: But I just actually looked it up. It is. It's
Speaker 1: just a medical term. But he's just using the first
Speaker 1: part and just referring to it as the matrix. The matrix.
Speaker 1: But yes, I was hoping I was a part of
Speaker 1: the uterus. I was hoping that it was something to
Speaker 1: a damnit. I mean, the movie The Matrix does kind
Speaker 1: of take place in like a robot uterus filled with people, okay,
Speaker 1: that are also batteries that are also batteries, like like
Speaker 1: babies in a uterus. Yes, so okay, I understand by
Speaker 1: two doctors just talking to each other right now, very yeah,
Speaker 1: so Russia the matrix. So Rush concluded again that that
Speaker 1: sex was a cause of nervous excitement, and thus careless
Speaker 1: sex would result in seminal weakness, painful urination, tuberculosis, vertigo, anxiety,
Speaker 1: and death. From his theorizing burst a galaxy of American
Speaker 1: come doctors, all with their own theories on why masturbation
Speaker 1: was bad and how to stop it. Edward bliss Foot,
Speaker 1: which is an amazing name, believed that masturbation disrupted the
Speaker 1: natural animal magnetism between the sexes. Sylvester Graham believed that
Speaker 1: over stimulation of the nervous system was the cause of
Speaker 1: all disease, and since Graham believed this was the case,
Speaker 1: the ultimate preventative medication was to live a life that
Speaker 1: was as boring as possible. This meant no masturbation because
Speaker 1: that excites you. It meant the absolute minimum amount of
Speaker 1: sex necessary to procreate, and it also meant eating and
Speaker 1: drinking only the very blandest things. Graham band grease, salt, condiment, spices, tea, coffee, tobacco,
Speaker 1: and alcohol for his followers. He cautioned that only cold
Speaker 1: water was healthy to drink. He created the Graham Cracker,
Speaker 1: which was initially sugarless and flavorless, to be a food
Speaker 1: that would stimulate the body as little as possible and
Speaker 1: help you poop in order to cut down on sexual urges. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: my kid was jerking off. Can I guess some of
Speaker 1: those ship crackers that will help make a boob? Also, wait,
Speaker 1: are the blandless of Blandness of life is our secret
Speaker 1: is the spice of life, because if you're out of balance,
Speaker 1: if you're happy, you're out of balance. If you're excited,
Speaker 1: you're out of balance. If you experience a moment of joy,
Speaker 1: you're out of balance, and that will make you die. Right,
Speaker 1: So it's like purgatory, you know, let's just be in
Speaker 1: physical purgatory. Life should be an endless, gray expanse of
Speaker 1: non experience. Yeah, and and like the logic of like
Speaker 1: and like. And also, eat these crackers, Man, eat these crackers.
Speaker 1: They'll make you ship and they taste bad and they're
Speaker 1: honestly what you won't suck if you eat these, I
Speaker 1: won't funk if I have diarrhea. No, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: no no. They're full of fiber. Like yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I know, but I'm just I haven't been regular because
Speaker 1: I haven't been masterbating enough. One of the things he's
Speaker 1: right about is like the diet at this point involved
Speaker 1: a lot of like pork and Greece and like people's
Speaker 1: bowels were often in bad shape, and he was like,
Speaker 1: having enough fiber is good for your health. Also, never fuck, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's like I was with you. I don't know, never
Speaker 1: fuck and no salt or flavor. Yeah, even Catholic priests
Speaker 1: don't do that. I mean they also fun if I
Speaker 1: there's something, there's some kind of something, yeah, something, But
Speaker 1: not for the followers of Sylvester Graham. Now, doctors like Graham,
Speaker 1: we're not just physicians and like the scientific sense, although
Speaker 1: they saw themselves that way, they were also moralists. These
Speaker 1: guys were religious crusaders who believed their medical advice was
Speaker 1: morally upright as well, and that that was a big
Speaker 1: part of like that's why we don't need to do
Speaker 1: research to prove this stuff. It's morally correct, so it's
Speaker 1: medically correct, you know. Yeah. Yeah, it's that to sucked
Speaker 1: when like microscopes and ship was just like dunking on
Speaker 1: all this ship. Yeah, it really was a bummer for
Speaker 1: these guys, Like, I mean, there's still a lot of them.
Speaker 1: It's why eventually the South African COVID variant will will
Speaker 1: will become a problem. Boy. That's that's another episode so um. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Graham was a Presbyterian minister and a temperance crusader as
Speaker 1: well as a medical guru. Brian Wilson explains, quote, many
Speaker 1: people during the time believe that God visited people with
Speaker 1: disease as punishment for moral sins. Sectarian health performers, on
Speaker 1: the other hand, believe that whereas moral sins led to
Speaker 1: spiritual diseases, it was physiological sins that led to diseases
Speaker 1: of the body. And just as spiritual disease could be
Speaker 1: avoided by following the Ten Commandments, so too, physiological sins
Speaker 1: could be avoided by heating the laws of life. Moreover,
Speaker 1: both kind of sins ultimately had implications for one's personal salvation.
Speaker 1: For according to Dr Larkin B. Coles, it is as
Speaker 1: truly a sin against Heaven to violate a law of
Speaker 1: life as to break one of the Tin commandments. So
Speaker 1: if you masturbate, if you eat salt, you are sitting
Speaker 1: against God as much as if you murdered, because you're
Speaker 1: violating the natural order of your body. Right, it's a
Speaker 1: moral it's a physiological sin. They invented a whole new
Speaker 1: type of sinning. Yeah, it's called oh my God, it's
Speaker 1: called being satisfied. Yeah, it's it's called enjoying even a
Speaker 1: second of your miserable, dirt farming life. Yes, yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1: That's that's a secret man's secret. We should all just
Speaker 1: be miserable. Yeah, it rules. I love Western culture. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's such a for all these guys like jacking
Speaker 1: off over the ancient Romans. The Romans would have listened
Speaker 1: to people, are you fucking what is wrong with you? People?
Speaker 1: The only reason to live is to eat salt and
Speaker 1: fucking serious all the time. You'll get this guy out
Speaker 1: of a fucking I'm gonna kill this guy. What then
Speaker 1: did he just say to me? They're a doctor. You're
Speaker 1: a doctor. My last doctor prescribed me a bunch of
Speaker 1: fucking Yeah, this is the Roman Empire. My doctor just
Speaker 1: prescribed me. Come, I'll have you know, and I'm living.
Speaker 1: Sir Graham is Um swept the country a little bit
Speaker 1: like like in the years kind of immediately before John
Speaker 1: Harvey Kellogg was born, and it was still an extremely
Speaker 1: influential strain of medical thought when he grew into a
Speaker 1: young man. It was very popular among religious hardliners like
Speaker 1: the Adventists. It was quickly followed by another great advance
Speaker 1: in medical science, hydropathy. This was a proposed medical science
Speaker 1: based on the research of an Austrian, which should have
Speaker 1: keyed everyone into the fact that it was a bad
Speaker 1: idea anyway. This Austrian, whose name was Price Kntz, believed
Speaker 1: that freshwater cured all ailments. You could take it internal
Speaker 1: via hydration or through a wide variety of baths. Some
Speaker 1: of these were traditional baths or showers, but others were
Speaker 1: weird as hell, wet blanket wraps and multi hour long
Speaker 1: cold and hot soaks. Hydropathy got huge in the late
Speaker 1: eighteen forties and was still a big deal in the
Speaker 1: eighteen fifties when James and Ellen White moved their razes
Speaker 1: to Battle Creek, Michigan. And this is the point where
Speaker 1: all of the Seventh day Adventist stuff we've talked about
Speaker 1: came to intersect with all the weird sectarian medicine stuff
Speaker 1: we've talked about. At first, the Whites were very anti medicine.
Speaker 1: Brian Wilson writes, quote, since an accident had left her
Speaker 1: an invalid for much of her childhood. That's the brain injury.
Speaker 1: Ellen White had been intensely concerned about her own health,
Speaker 1: and so throughout her early ministry she had been plagued
Speaker 1: by health problems. Sometimes these were so serious that her
Speaker 1: friends despaired of her life, and at least one of
Speaker 1: these occasions, her friends rallied around her to pray for
Speaker 1: her recovery, which, when it occurred, was interpreted as nothing
Speaker 1: short of one of the miracles promised for the last days. Accordingly,
Speaker 1: healing exclusively through prayer at avoiding doctors in medicine came
Speaker 1: to be seen as an act of faith. In fact,
Speaker 1: in eighteen forty nine, Ellen White published a broadside targeted
Speaker 1: at Adventists entitled to those who are receiving the Seal
Speaker 1: of the Living God. It warned that if any among
Speaker 1: us are sick, let us not dishonor God by applying
Speaker 1: to earthly physicians, but apply to the God of Israel
Speaker 1: so great, that's what's what's the God of Israel's batting average? Yeah?
Speaker 1: How's how's Israel doing in the How is that one
Speaker 1: doing against foot chopper? I think foot choppers got the edge.
Speaker 1: Foot choppers got the edge? O the God really okay? Well?
Speaker 1: For a time, adventists believed that Ellen White could bring
Speaker 1: the Lord's healing upon people just by praying for them.
Speaker 1: This period came to an end in the mid eighteen
Speaker 1: fifties when one of her followers in Camden, New York,
Speaker 1: died after refusing medical treatment in favor of prayer. Ellen
Speaker 1: White called the reports that her preaching helped kill this
Speaker 1: woman groundless, but from that point forward, she started telling
Speaker 1: her followers that faith healing should be balanced with actual
Speaker 1: medical air. So she backed the funk pedals once she
Speaker 1: gets someone killed, which again, these grifters are so much
Speaker 1: more moral people than than our modern ones. Even maybe
Speaker 1: not fair to call her a grifter. I do think
Speaker 1: she believed, but like clearly felt bad that she got
Speaker 1: someone killed, like ship I got I. Oh boy, you
Speaker 1: know man, that was kind of a big swing. That
Speaker 1: was an l for me. Yeah, all right, chalk that
Speaker 1: one on there. Yeah, you can write it down. So
Speaker 1: she was also she's so she she starts embracing medicine,
Speaker 1: but she's not embracing you know, heroic medicine. She starts
Speaker 1: embracing these weird people like Graham and stuff like hydropathy.
Speaker 1: And because she's into Graham, she gets huge on healthy
Speaker 1: living um. And this is like kind of ties into
Speaker 1: the fact that Adventists accepted the apocalypse was not as
Speaker 1: imminent as they'd initially believed, so they had to take
Speaker 1: care of their bodies as part of their being right
Speaker 1: with God. Um. And there's a bunch of theological arguments
Speaker 1: about this, but basically, like one of the things that
Speaker 1: happens is that Adventist belief kind of lash is on
Speaker 1: all of this grammist stuff about you gotta be a vegetarian,
Speaker 1: you can't eat salt, you can't eat anything good, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: So they all start to adopt those beliefs as well.
Speaker 1: So this is what they kind of figured it out though,
Speaker 1: that because isn't that because the blue isn't the blue
Speaker 1: zone diet actually known for like longer life expectator And
Speaker 1: that's what I mean. So is the Mediterranean um right, right? Right?
Speaker 1: Or not to say that he was, you know, omniscient
Speaker 1: and knowing that but like yeah not or to just look,
Speaker 1: I'm all spice and salt, baby, but one of the
Speaker 1: most healthy things they figure out because like pork is
Speaker 1: a horrible meat for your health, terrible for you, Like
Speaker 1: we all love the way it tastes, but we shouldn't
Speaker 1: be eating it. It's bad and it was the main
Speaker 1: meat that was people's diet in this part of the
Speaker 1: North America at the time. They're just eating because it's
Speaker 1: easy to make a lot of it. Right, Beef's not
Speaker 1: great for you either, Like Mediterraneans eat a lot of meat,
Speaker 1: but it's not primarily beef and pork and stuff. You know. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: the healthiest diets aren't necessarily vegetarian. But they're definitely not
Speaker 1: eating nothing but bacon exactly. Um So, yeah, like the
Speaker 1: American diet at this point is really bad, and it's true,
Speaker 1: but like they start to notice, like part of why
Speaker 1: they get so into these medical beliefs is like they
Speaker 1: adopt these grandmist health beliefs and they all feel better
Speaker 1: because they're eating healthy, like it is better for you.
Speaker 1: He might be onto something, but then he's like saying,
Speaker 1: it's not really the diet. He's like, no, it's the
Speaker 1: come that you've kept inside. Well, yeah, we'll get to that.
Speaker 1: So this is why I keep going back to all
Speaker 1: of these different strades of thought, because this is how
Speaker 1: John Harvey Kellogg grows up. This is what he grows
Speaker 1: up believing. Um, and he didn't, you know, because in
Speaker 1: his early childhood, and they haven't quite adopted these grandmast
Speaker 1: beliefs yet. Sickness is a constant factor in his childhood
Speaker 1: his father, and it's also not Trusting doctors is a
Speaker 1: big factor. So his father has like lifelong chronic near
Speaker 1: fatalarrhea because of an eye infection that a local doctor
Speaker 1: treated by making a fly bite him, which caused his
Speaker 1: tongue to swell up and permanently insured him. So like
Speaker 1: when hold you know, say that whole sequence of words
Speaker 1: out loud again, that's so crazy. He chronic debilitating diarrhea
Speaker 1: that he got from an eye infection when the doctor
Speaker 1: prescribed an insect bite for an eye infection, bite for
Speaker 1: your eye infection, doc, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta
Speaker 1: tell you, man, this is I believe I trusted you.
Speaker 1: My eye is a fucking worse and my diary is
Speaker 1: off the fucking meat hook right now. I can't you
Speaker 1: know medicine? What the fuck where did you get that bug?
Speaker 1: There's a lot of unanswered questions here, um So obviously, Also,
Speaker 1: his dad's first wife dies of tuberculosis, His first daughter
Speaker 1: died of a lung infection which the doctor blamed on worms,
Speaker 1: and then his dad like sits with the doctor to
Speaker 1: cut up his dead daughter just to prove like, no,
Speaker 1: there ain't no worms in that dead girl. It's full God, No,
Speaker 1: no worms, no worms. The doctor was wrong. Yes, it
Speaker 1: was tuberculosis. He was giving her like poison because he
Speaker 1: thought her lungs were filled with worms, and then he
Speaker 1: poisoned her to death like a wild guess uh warm
Speaker 1: worms were there? Bug focused? Doctor? Where yet? Yeah? You
Speaker 1: know who won't murder your child with strict nine because
Speaker 1: he thinks their lungs are full of worms? Who raytheon?
Speaker 1: Don't murder your child with an honest to God knife missile.
Speaker 1: Yeah we're back. So John Harvey Kellogg by the time
Speaker 1: he comes into the world, his dad was not trusting
Speaker 1: of mainstream physicians, which would make sense. Um. He buys
Speaker 1: the church's lines on medicine, and when the church gets
Speaker 1: really into hydropathy, so does John Harvey Kellogg's family. Now
Speaker 1: John Preston, his dad subscribed to the Water Cure Journal,
Speaker 1: and John Harvey grew up with hydropathy is kind of
Speaker 1: the go to treatment for everyone in his family, which
Speaker 1: makes sense because it is healthier for you than, for example,
Speaker 1: bug bites honestly, where the fuck is that? It's all
Speaker 1: who's the godfather of bug? Doctory? And where the fuck
Speaker 1: who's the who's the bug supplier? I don't know, we're
Speaker 1: missing some pieces of that story, Like that's I mean,
Speaker 1: there's a whole there's a whole consultation scene that I
Speaker 1: must see be acted out. Dr Bug. I think you
Speaker 1: may not think you may not be the best position.
Speaker 1: It sounds like you got a scorpion in your brain.
Speaker 1: What scorpion talking? Get Okay, I'm getting the funk out
Speaker 1: of here. So here's how John Harvey recalled, Like, imagine
Speaker 1: if you actually had something wrong with your asshole, we
Speaker 1: gotta put a milk beat up there. Put all the
Speaker 1: bugs I can in your ass. Oh yeah, I've seen this.
Speaker 1: Not enough bugs, not enough bugs, not enough rachnids in there.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you swear you swear he solved your thing. Yes,
Speaker 1: my sister had a baby after she saw him. She
Speaker 1: was scared not to also, you know, I think maybe
Speaker 1: they were just having an affair. Yeah, that made it
Speaker 1: seem like a miracle because her husband went to go
Speaker 1: see him when he had trouble urinating and the doctor
Speaker 1: suggested a bug bite on his ball sack. So here's
Speaker 1: how John Harvey Kellogg described the hydropathy treatments he received
Speaker 1: and he was sick as a kid. Quote. I remember
Speaker 1: very well how violently I shivered when, at the age
Speaker 1: of ten, I was wrapped in a cold, wet sheet
Speaker 1: pack to bring out the eruption and an attack of measles.
Speaker 1: I shall never forget the crude shower bath with which
Speaker 1: it's health barrel tank arranged over a pan with perforated bottom,
Speaker 1: through which cold water from a deep well poured in
Speaker 1: frigid streams on my body until the tank was empty.
Speaker 1: Because the door to the little chamber in which I
Speaker 1: was confined stuck so fast I could not escape, and
Speaker 1: no one came to my relief until the tank was empty.
Speaker 1: So they waterboarded this little kid. Is like medicine. That
Speaker 1: was their treatment was like We're gonna lock you in
Speaker 1: a tank and poured freezing water on you for hours.
Speaker 1: What the fuck? Hyde, Okay, thanks hydropathy excited dropathy. So
Speaker 1: he's being he's being like al Qaeda tortured, like c
Speaker 1: i A style tortured. But it's like you got measles. Hi,
Speaker 1: I'm Gina Haspel, Director of High You know what, I
Speaker 1: will say this at Guantanamo. No fucking measles, not one case,
Speaker 1: one case. You're welcome. You tell me, you tell me.
Speaker 1: Jim from the Office was right, we should be thankful
Speaker 1: for the CIA. Thank you, and that's some good news
Speaker 1: from John Krazinski. So right around the same time and
Speaker 1: John Harvey's early adolescence, his family expanded their medical interests
Speaker 1: into Grahamism. Now before becoming Grammasts, his father, his family
Speaker 1: diet had been had included huge quantities of pork, but
Speaker 1: afterwards the whole Kellogg family were strict vegetarians. An Adventist
Speaker 1: minister who was a friend of the family introduced them
Speaker 1: to an early prototype of Graham crackers. By the time
Speaker 1: John Harvey Kellogg was a young adult helping to run
Speaker 1: Ellen White's newspaper, the whole Adventist church had plunged headlong
Speaker 1: into sectary in medicine. Ellen White had a vision in
Speaker 1: the early eighteen sixties. She had already been advising her
Speaker 1: followers to avoid alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, and fatty foods, but
Speaker 1: now she had received a prophecy from God, and he
Speaker 1: told her that everyone needed to be a vegetarian, get
Speaker 1: lots of exercise and rest, drink tons of water, and
Speaker 1: engage in medical baths. It's likely she was actually influenced
Speaker 1: in this by the behaviors adopted by her close friends
Speaker 1: the Kelloggs and other people in Battle Creek. It's kind
Speaker 1: of hard to tell, like exactly where this this, like
Speaker 1: which way this flowed? It was probably both ways, um,
Speaker 1: and there may yeah, and there may have been something
Speaker 1: of a grifter pin spun to this. Because hydropathy becomes
Speaker 1: very popular and Ellen White adopts it as part of
Speaker 1: the faith, claims God has told her that this is
Speaker 1: like the true medicine. And then she opens a medical
Speaker 1: school that the church runs to teach doctor's hydropathy, and
Speaker 1: they call this the Western Health Reform. Uh kind of,
Speaker 1: so it officially opened it's still unfinished doors on September
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty six. Since this was her biggest new project,
Speaker 1: she told her new brightest follower, John Harvey Kellogg, that
Speaker 1: he needed to go there. So she'd had a vision
Speaker 1: that he was meant to be a physician, not a teacher.
Speaker 1: John Harvet, like I said that a little earlier too.
Speaker 1: John Harvey hated the side of blood, and he had
Speaker 1: no desire to go to medical school, but he was
Speaker 1: gradually kind of forced into doing this because it was
Speaker 1: God's command. Right, So this kid wants to be a
Speaker 1: teacher winds up learning to be a bath doctor, and
Speaker 1: he doesn't really want to do this. Now. He hated
Speaker 1: the medical school that his church created because he was
Speaker 1: actually a smart person, and he was intelligent enough to
Speaker 1: know that all of the stuff they were teaching was
Speaker 1: fucking nonsense. He graduated with no effort since all of
Speaker 1: his classes involved zero medical science. The headmaster of the
Speaker 1: medical school believed that organic chemistry was a lie by
Speaker 1: the devil, so like there was not a lot of
Speaker 1: hard science of the just graduating with flying. Your whole
Speaker 1: test is just water with a question mark and you
Speaker 1: write yes, you nod, congratulations doctor. You take a simple
Speaker 1: water and go. And that was my dissertation. You know
Speaker 1: it would be good if I was locked in a
Speaker 1: room filled with this for hours where no one could
Speaker 1: hear my screams. That seems like it would treat I
Speaker 1: don't know cancer. I love that this this kid's going somewhere,
Speaker 1: He's going to save the planet. This kid's gotta fix everything.
Speaker 1: You're a prodigy. Didn't even go through an apple sauce space,
Speaker 1: straight to water. You see what you can learn from him? Guys,
Speaker 1: everyone can look around look at this guy. Yeah, Jimmy,
Speaker 1: all that oil you've been pouring up people's assholes, that
Speaker 1: was the wrong It's water, bug, guy, I don't even
Speaker 1: gotta tell you where you putting those scorpions. Stop that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: none of us, none of us have pissed right for
Speaker 1: a week. So he realizes that this medical school his
Speaker 1: church creates is complete bullshit. But his time at Ellen
Speaker 1: White's nonsense school of Long Baths ignited a very real
Speaker 1: interest in medical science. Dr Brian Wilson writes, quote John
Speaker 1: Harvey's time at the college did whet his appetite for
Speaker 1: further medical training, this time at orthodox medical institutions, an
Speaker 1: idea he proposed to James White upon his return to
Speaker 1: Battle Creek. Elder White was reluctant to endorse this project,
Speaker 1: his attitude being that training at some doctor mill was
Speaker 1: all an adventist physician really needed. But Kellogg prevailed, and
Speaker 1: with White's financial backing, he attended first the College of
Speaker 1: Medicine and Surgery at the University of Michigan, and then
Speaker 1: Bellevue Hospital in New York City, which at the time
Speaker 1: was the finest teaching hospital in the United States. Here,
Speaker 1: Kellogg not only learned the latest in regular medicine, including
Speaker 1: new drug therapies, but under the tutelage of Austin Flint
Speaker 1: and E. G. Janeway, was also introduced to advances in
Speaker 1: physiotherapy and surgery. Intensely proud of his achievement, Kellogg graduated
Speaker 1: with a regular m d. From Bellevue in eighteen seventy five.
Speaker 1: Later in the eighteen eighties, Kellogg, now completely over his
Speaker 1: disgust of blood, would take up the practice of surgery
Speaker 1: in earnest training, first in New York and then in
Speaker 1: eighteen eighty three in Vienna with Adolf Adolf bill Roth,
Speaker 1: who Kellog characterized as the greatest surgeon of the nineteenth century,
Speaker 1: and everyone seems to agree he was. John Harvey Kellogg
Speaker 1: was an incredibly gifted surgeon. Like he is. He is
Speaker 1: a nonsense doctor too, but he's also a deeply gifted
Speaker 1: regular surgeon who was respected within his field for his talents.
Speaker 1: He's a very He's kind of like Ben Carson. I
Speaker 1: was gonna say this sounds familiar. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: Ben Carson energy again. Actually good at fucking surgery. Anything else, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's anything else. So he becomes an actual doctor and
Speaker 1: returns to Battle Creek from getting his m d. In
Speaker 1: eighteen seventy five and immediately joins the staff at his
Speaker 1: religion's nonsense medical school again, and it became immediately apparent
Speaker 1: that no and else who worked there knew anything about medicine.
Speaker 1: As the only member of his staff, of the staff
Speaker 1: of this again medical college who was not jibbering maniac,
Speaker 1: Kellogg was almost immediately promoted to superintendent of the institute,
Speaker 1: which was probably the best call you could have made. Like,
Speaker 1: you've got the real doctor and the guy who believe
Speaker 1: Satan invented chemistry. I guess we picked the real here. Thanks.
Speaker 1: And then that doctor is like, well, I guess the
Speaker 1: student has become the teachers. Where don't you go talk to? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so uh yeah. He was like twenty six years old
Speaker 1: when he becomes the superintendent of the institute, and he
Speaker 1: agreed to take the job both because the prophet told
Speaker 1: him it was God needed him to do, but also
Speaker 1: because he would have control over the institute and he
Speaker 1: would be able to reform it. So Kellogg was again
Speaker 1: not super psyched about this college. He described it as
Speaker 1: an empirical institution, a sort of mixture of water cure,
Speaker 1: homeopath and eclecticism with no scientific direction, and so when
Speaker 1: he took control, he vowed to turn it into an
Speaker 1: internationally recognized medical institution devoted to a wide range of
Speaker 1: treatments based on hard science. His first active director was
Speaker 1: to change the institute's name to the Battle Creek Sanitarium.
Speaker 1: He actually invented the word sanitarium. The editor of his
Speaker 1: old newspaper complained about this, pointing out that no one
Speaker 1: wouldn't know what he meant by using it because he
Speaker 1: just created the word. But Kellogg argued that sanitarium was
Speaker 1: a better name than sanatorium. See, a sanatorium was a
Speaker 1: place where sick people came to be cured. That's not
Speaker 1: what Dr Kellogg wanted to make. He wanted to create
Speaker 1: a place where people learned how to stay well. Kellogg's
Speaker 1: vision was a mixture of like a quack hospital and
Speaker 1: quack medical school, but also a real hospital and something
Speaker 1: akin to a health spat like. He wanted to turn
Speaker 1: this into a place where people would come to learn
Speaker 1: how to be healthy as well as come when they
Speaker 1: were sick, and he was. He was. Again, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of good ideas this guy have as one of
Speaker 1: which is that you don't the the ideal was not
Speaker 1: to treat people for illnesses. It's to keep them healthy, right,
Speaker 1: which is fair like a reasonable thing for a doctor exactly.
Speaker 1: And he kind of he turns the sanitarium into like
Speaker 1: a preventive medicine spa where like particularly rich people can
Speaker 1: come and like get all these different treatments designed to
Speaker 1: keep them healthy. One of his first executive acts was
Speaker 1: to start placing full page ads in professional journals, including
Speaker 1: the a m A's Journal, advertising the Sanitarium as a
Speaker 1: place where people could take vacations not just to treat
Speaker 1: their ailments, but to get healthier. Brian Wilson writes, quote,
Speaker 1: along with all the luxuries of a grand hotel, the
Speaker 1: sand was touted as offering a carefully monitored vegetarian diet,
Speaker 1: a variety of physical therapies, including rational hydropathy, Swedish movements, calistenics,
Speaker 1: breathing exercises, and eventually electric light and heat therapies. Now
Speaker 1: there's a lot of questions that that paragraph raises, I
Speaker 1: bet you're wondering, first off, what rational hydropathy might include.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna let a write up from history dot com
Speaker 1: explain that. In a nineteen o seven ad in Good
Speaker 1: Housekeeping magazine, the Battle Creek Sanitarium boasted of offering forty
Speaker 1: six kinds of baths. Some like foot baths and sponge baths,
Speaker 1: were relatively conventional, but there were also options like the
Speaker 1: continuous bath, which was much like a regular tub bath,
Speaker 1: except that it could last, Kellogg wrote, for many hours, days, weeks,
Speaker 1: or months, as the case may require. Oh that's rational hydropic.
Speaker 1: That's the ractional to stay at a bath for months,
Speaker 1: and they would You could get up to use the restroom,
Speaker 1: and you could get up to do things, but they
Speaker 1: would keep bathing you while you were standing and moving
Speaker 1: like that's what they meant by continuous bath. So you'd
Speaker 1: get up to take a dump and then they're just
Speaker 1: pouring buckets of water on you, or keep always be bathing.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Kellogg advocated continuous baths as a treatment
Speaker 1: for skin diseases, chronic diarrhea, and a host of mental maladies,
Speaker 1: including delirium, hysteria, and maine. You I kind of think
Speaker 1: a week'slong bath might not help you in a weird
Speaker 1: place you in. Kellogg was fascinated by the evolving therapies
Speaker 1: of the day. He would regularly read about some new
Speaker 1: health fad and fall in love with it. Dr kellub
Speaker 1: would generally frame this is paying attention to the latest
Speaker 1: medical developments, but many of the fadcy embraced had little
Speaker 1: scientific basis. For example, he became a disciple of Horace Flesher,
Speaker 1: a health guru who traced many health problems to poor
Speaker 1: chewing discipline. Fletcher believed people needed to chew each bite
Speaker 1: at least forty times, sometimes you'll hear thirty four before swallowing.
Speaker 1: As a result, Dr Kellogg would lead dinners in the
Speaker 1: sanitarium with renditions of the Chewing Song, the chorus of
Speaker 1: which was chew too, cho that is the thing to do.
Speaker 1: Oh you you sounds like a hoot. Kellogg was a
Speaker 1: believer in what he called auto intoxication, which resulted from
Speaker 1: the putrefaction of n jested meat in the bowels. He
Speaker 1: believed that otto intoxication was behind virtually every illness of
Speaker 1: the bowels. To fix this, the bowels had to be cleansed.
Speaker 1: His sanitarium offered patients a truly dizzying variety of enemas.
Speaker 1: He believed quote more people need washing out than any
Speaker 1: other remedy. This was again not an uncommon health treatment
Speaker 1: at the time, but as usual, Kellogg took things further
Speaker 1: than anyone else. Traditional enemas involved a pint or two
Speaker 1: of liquid being you know, put in your butt, right.
Speaker 1: John Harvey's enemas were administered by a special machine of
Speaker 1: his own design that could pump fifteen quarts of water
Speaker 1: per minute through his patient's bowls. What more is better? Baby? Wait?
Speaker 1: Nearly four fucking gallons a minute? What absolutely outrageous? Yere
Speaker 1: gonna fucking pressure wash? You're just whole shit like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's basically taking pressure watcher from like a car washing
Speaker 1: shooting up his own design. He just designed a weird
Speaker 1: nozzle to put in your asshole. Otherwise it's the pressure
Speaker 1: washer that the city uses when there's graffiti. I have
Speaker 1: never heard that this was a sex thing. And this
Speaker 1: is a man who, by his own claim, never came
Speaker 1: but you know this was a sex thing. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: got that thing? Yet? That was absolutely think I think
Speaker 1: it could hit harder yeah, you knowlem with is that
Speaker 1: water per minute up your asshole? It's not looking like
Speaker 1: a busted fire hydrant on a summer day in New York.
Speaker 1: The Sanitarium group grew famous both due to kellogg skill
Speaker 1: and drawing media attention and due to his actual gifts
Speaker 1: as a physician. He was actually a good doctor in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, including surgery. He was Sojourner Truth's doctor,
Speaker 1: and he would go on to treat Thomas Edison, Henry Ford,
Speaker 1: and Amelia Earhart. Before long, the Sanitarium was the hit
Speaker 1: place for the rich and famous to go and receive
Speaker 1: medical care. Here's how one ad from the early nineteen
Speaker 1: hundreds Decide described it. It's got This ad has like
Speaker 1: a picture of the Sanitarium, bunch of trees. There's like
Speaker 1: a golf club and a tennis racket on it. Get
Speaker 1: Away and Rest the largest and most elaborately equipped health
Speaker 1: resort in the world, a mecca for vacationists, a cool
Speaker 1: and delightful summer resting place. Outdoor life encouraged swimming, golf, tennis, volleyball,
Speaker 1: motoring and tramping m yeah, tramping. Systematized diet of simple
Speaker 1: and delicious foods, expert bath facilities and the most efficient
Speaker 1: medical service if desired, accommodations for two thousand guests, planning
Speaker 1: your vacation early. So yeah, that's it's it's like a spat.
Speaker 1: It's like a med spa. It is a med SPA
Speaker 1: describing the butthole destroyer. They don't they in the ads,
Speaker 1: we will ruin your rasshole, absolutely lay waste to that thing.
Speaker 1: There will there will not even be a whole when
Speaker 1: were you don't want? I'm on, I could, I could
Speaker 1: say a lot of disc a lot of metaphors that
Speaker 1: aren't explicit, but you get the picture, you know, sock.
Speaker 1: So let's make sure that you know what we're doing
Speaker 1: over there. Don't get too too well on that thing now.
Speaker 1: So far, John Harvey sounds, you know, kind of out there,
Speaker 1: but not evil, right, no evil yet, Like it's definitely
Speaker 1: not the best health decision to water in and out,
Speaker 1: but it's not. He's not. You're not a monster if
Speaker 1: you think that's especially it's the eighteen eighties, eighteen nineties.
Speaker 1: It's it's better than a lot of what doctors are doing.
Speaker 1: You know, you're not probably going to die from that
Speaker 1: um like you would from the strict nine treatments. Um
Speaker 1: or the bugs not a monster based on what we've
Speaker 1: heard so far. But as I said, Kellogg was the
Speaker 1: kind of guy who was always interested in new treatments
Speaker 1: and expanding the scope of his practices. From the beginning,
Speaker 1: both the Sanitarium and John HARVEYT. Kellogg had been influenced
Speaker 1: by Graham's teachings. This led him to advocate a vegetarian
Speaker 1: diet and sobriety, which we've already talked about and is
Speaker 1: fine even if it's not a lot of people's choices.
Speaker 1: But it also convinced Kellogg that masturbation was among the
Speaker 1: greatest human evils, and I'm at a hote now from
Speaker 1: a wonderful write up in Jezebel. Masturbation could begin in
Speaker 1: the most tragic of cases, at a young age. Kellog
Speaker 1: reported that he had seen children as young as two
Speaker 1: years of age placed their hands upon their own genitalia.
Speaker 1: In these cases, the child, already deficient in morals, was
Speaker 1: most likely suffering from the sins her parents committed before
Speaker 1: she was even born. Having excessive sexual relations during pregnancy,
Speaker 1: or being the offspring spring of a masturbator could warp
Speaker 1: the values of a fetus in utero. Kellogg did not
Speaker 1: believe any natural inclination would draw a child's hand to
Speaker 1: their private parts. These manipulations came from dark and foul
Speaker 1: sources such as constipation, hemorrhoids, bladder infections, anal fishers, and
Speaker 1: uncleanliness of the organs. Other foul temptations were to be
Speaker 1: found in choice of betting, said Dr Kellogg. Soft pillows
Speaker 1: and soft beds and pillows must be carefully avoided the
Speaker 1: floor with a single folded blanket beneath the sleeper would
Speaker 1: be preferable. A hair mattress or a bed of corn
Speaker 1: husks covered in two or three blankets, or a quilted
Speaker 1: cotton mattress makes a very healthy and comfortable bed. Of course,
Speaker 1: simply switching at pillows can't stop people from wanting to masturbate.
Speaker 1: Nothing short of physical torture and mutilation is going to
Speaker 1: stop an adolescent from experimenting with their own genitals. And
Speaker 1: as we'll discuss in Part two, physical torture and mutilation
Speaker 1: is exactly where doctor John Harvey Kellogg decided to go.
Speaker 1: So next episode is gonna be a rough one miles
Speaker 1: and everyone listening real bad. Just some of the worst
Speaker 1: stuff will ever talk about on this show, real real
Speaker 1: dark shit, real black pill hours here my friends. Oh well,
Speaker 1: you know that's uh. I feel like I'm always here
Speaker 1: for these ones. But you know, I'm built different. We
Speaker 1: talked about we had you on for the Trump University one.
Speaker 1: You've had your fun episode, had fun ones, and then
Speaker 1: we've also had absolutely fucked ones. But hey, you know what,
Speaker 1: that's what this show is. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1: If you want fucking good times, go listen and you
Speaker 1: know whatever. That Yeah, that's ship. That's the show where
Speaker 1: we won't spend an hour on Thursday talking about female
Speaker 1: genitally anyway. Yeah, we'll just talk about ship jokes a
Speaker 1: lot probably, and that people enjoyed about this episode, I'm sure. Yeah.
Speaker 1: No one's gonna be happy with the next episode. I
Speaker 1: promise you, no one will be happy with the next episode.
Speaker 1: So don't complain. So don't complain. It's going to be bad.
Speaker 1: There's your warning. Okay, vegetables and just get to be
Speaker 1: a ton of emotional and sexual abuse. It's going to
Speaker 1: be bad. So listen it on Thursday. Alright, Miles, just
Speaker 1: to have self care your mental health. Now, Uh well,
Speaker 1: I'll see you on Part two. Yeah, eat some graham
Speaker 1: crackers and pound it. Yeah, wait anything, Okay, eat some
Speaker 1: Graham crackers and masterbrade unless that's your thing, unless it
Speaker 1: helps you come and you know, if you have any
Speaker 1: insight into the bug field, I would. I'm honestly really
Speaker 1: interested in this. Will please my my my plug double
Speaker 1: is please approaching me with bug doctor information? Bug doctor
Speaker 1: what what the fund was? Yeah? H