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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media, Hello.

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Speaker 2: And welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff. You're weekly.

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Speaker 2: Reminder that I always introduced the show by calling it weekly,

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Speaker 2: even though it's twice a week, because I don't know

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Speaker 2: whether bi weekly means twice a week or every two weeks.

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Speaker 2: I think it means every two weeks. I am your host,

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Speaker 2: Margaret Kiljoy, and my guest today is Bursts, one of

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Speaker 2: the hosts of The Final Straw Radio, which is both

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Speaker 2: a radio show and a podcast. How are you.

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Speaker 3: I'm doing pretty well.

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Speaker 2: I missed you, I know in this five minute break

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Speaker 2: where we sat around and talked about cats.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: We have a producer. My name's Sophie.

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Speaker 3: We have a producer, hy Sophie.

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Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 2: That's always how I introduce you, vaguely, awkwardly, as if

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Speaker 2: you weren't the person who gets happened. It's amazing. No notes.

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Speaker 2: Our audio engineer is Eva hi Eva.

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Speaker 3: Hi Eva hi Eva.

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Speaker 2: Our theme music was written for us by un woman.

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Speaker 3: Hi On Women. I love your music.

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Speaker 2: Hi On Woman. I don't know if you listen, but

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Speaker 2: thanks for making this music. We picked this theme music

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Speaker 2: because I was like, I want something that seems incongruous

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Speaker 2: with talking about like all kinds of wild revolutionary shit.

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Speaker 2: I think it gives us a nice vibe. I still

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Speaker 2: really like it.

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Speaker 3: I know that you've performed with on Women before. Do

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Speaker 3: you have a favorite on Women track?

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Speaker 2: I do. My favorite un Woman track is called Written

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Speaker 2: in Red, Yes, and it is the poem written by

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Speaker 2: Volting to Claire, who I am really shocked has not

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Speaker 2: really come up on this show. Vulturing to Claire was

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Speaker 2: a the oldie banner CHISTI lady.

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Speaker 3: Contemporary of Emma Goldman. Yeah, that's my favorite one of

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Speaker 3: on Women's tracks as well. It's beautiful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so good. Anyway, we are talking about pirate

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Speaker 2: radio this week, and on Monday we talked very confusedly

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Speaker 2: about how pirate radio, at least in the UK was

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Speaker 2: started by people who were capitalists. Yeah. Just I mean

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Speaker 2: it's cool that they did that. I have no qualms

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Speaker 2: with them setting up boats and playing rock music. It

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Speaker 2: just was surprising. It wasn't what I was expecting when

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Speaker 2: I was like, I'm going to research the history of

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Speaker 2: pirate radio. And actually next week we're going to talk

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Speaker 2: about the first act of radio piracy. But whatever, that's

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Speaker 2: for next week. So you've got this three way fight

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Speaker 2: going on between commercial radio, public radio, and state owned radio.

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Speaker 2: And we've so far talked about state owned radio and

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Speaker 2: commercial radio, but we haven't gone to the public part.

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Speaker 2: And what's fascinating is that both commercial and public radio

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Speaker 2: are perfectly willing to go pirate, although both are also

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Speaker 2: perfectly willing to be licensed and just do things in

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Speaker 2: that way too. Honestly, I suppose state owned radio is

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Speaker 2: also perfectly willing to be pirate because you have things

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Speaker 2: like Radio Free Europe, which was a CIA funded radio

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Speaker 2: operation to broadcast Western radio across the Iron Curtain, which

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Speaker 2: is kind of an interesting thing in its own right,

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Speaker 2: despite where its funding came from, But it is not

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Speaker 2: what we're going to be talking about today. Instead, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to talk about how as monopolies on state radio

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Speaker 2: started to waiver across Western Europe, small radio operators, legal

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Speaker 2: and otherwise cropped up everywhere. And we're going to start

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Speaker 2: with Italy because I think it sets us up well

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Speaker 2: to understand the three way fight. Italian politics don't map

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Speaker 2: to the politics of the rest of Europe. You ever

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Speaker 2: noticed that they're just like their own thing.

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Speaker 3: This is the thing I've heard.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it gets real confusing if you ever want to

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Speaker 2: hear about leftist nationalists, read about there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: leftist nationalists, but the unification of Italy was this whole thing,

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Speaker 2: and then there's people who were whatever Italian politics are

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Speaker 2: just confusing. It's no wonder that that place gave us

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Speaker 2: Fascism'm not even in a slight to Italy, just in

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Speaker 2: a way that everything is different.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the whole like syncretism of it, especially like Mizzini

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Speaker 3: and like all of these earlier Republicans that helped to

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Speaker 3: found it were like also running alongside of Bakunin and yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're just everyone was doing all kinds of stuff

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Speaker 2: together and antagonistically to each other. And Mussolini's father was

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Speaker 2: into Italian nationalism and anarchism, and then Mussolini was in

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Speaker 2: their socialism. But then he was like, actually, I just

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Speaker 2: like the revolutionary part, I don't like the leftism part.

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Speaker 2: And the Communist Party for most of the twentieth century

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Speaker 2: was like the status quo, bad boring, It's like the

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Speaker 2: equivalent of our democrats. You know, we've talked a bit

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Speaker 2: about Italian politics in the second half of the twentieth

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Speaker 2: century before on this show, and what's important to understand

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Speaker 2: when we're going to talk about radio stuff in the seventies,

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Speaker 2: is that politics in Italy are heated. They're heated in

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Speaker 2: a way that is like hard to understand. In the

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Speaker 2: American context, you have the years of lead from about

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixty eight to nineteen eighty eight, with far right

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Speaker 2: and far left groups doing a lot of terrorism and

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Speaker 2: shooting and urban guerrilla stuff, lots of false flag stuff

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Speaker 2: where the people are blaming anarchists for things, but anarchists

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Speaker 2: are also doing things. And you've got the autonomous and

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Speaker 2: you've got all this stuff. It's just stuff everything. You

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Speaker 2: also need to understand autonomists a little bit because they

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Speaker 2: are a big part of Italy and basically, since the

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Speaker 2: Communist Party was more or less the Democrats, people are

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Speaker 2: can get really mad about that comparison, and they might

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Speaker 2: even be right to be mad at me about it,

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Speaker 2: because I've only read so much about Italy and it's

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Speaker 2: all confusing.

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Speaker 3: Graham, she was basically FDR full stop.

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Speaker 2: Wait, wasn't he more of an autonomist? Oh I don't know, No, No, Gram,

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Speaker 2: she wasn't. Never mind, he was.

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Speaker 3: The head of the Communist Party who died in prison

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Speaker 3: under mus Kenny, but.

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Speaker 2: That was before the Communist Party got democraty. Yeah, Graham,

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Speaker 2: She's probably the like Capital C communists whose works I

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Speaker 2: have found the most resonant with some of how I

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Speaker 2: understand things. But that might be because when I went

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Speaker 2: to Italy, all of the anarchists were also like, whatever,

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Speaker 2: this is completely besides the point. Everything is wild over there.

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Speaker 2: It's upside downland, it's confusing, and so you have the

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Speaker 2: rise of autonomous Marxism, which is basically people were like, well,

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Speaker 2: we like Marxism, but we actually don't like the state

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Speaker 2: because the official Marxists are bored and we don't like them.

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Speaker 2: So you have this whole radical movement of communists and

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Speaker 2: then the anarchists are someone closely tied together.

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Speaker 3: Is that because the Communist Party at that point was

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Speaker 3: basically towing the Stalinist line.

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Speaker 2: I am not certain. I am under the impression, and

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Speaker 2: I genuinely could be wrong about this. The stuff I

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Speaker 2: have read has implied heavily that the Communist Party at

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Speaker 2: this point is like just status quo government and like

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Speaker 2: doing more what people would normally accuse like a socialist

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Speaker 2: party elsewhere in Europe of being, which still sounds radical

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Speaker 2: to the American context, but is like not really further

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Speaker 2: left than like Bernie and is sometimes to the right

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Speaker 2: of Bernie Sanders.

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Speaker 3: Because I guess you had neo fascists from the MSI

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Speaker 3: that were like, had been part of the Salo Republic

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Speaker 3: and they were backed by the CIA going on at

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Speaker 3: the same time.

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Speaker 2: I believe you. I've even had people explain it to me.

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Speaker 2: I was on a years of LED podcast as a

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Speaker 2: pod cast idiot once, and I tried to be a

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Speaker 2: good podcast idiot where you've learned, and instead it was like,

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Speaker 2: well that sounds crazy. Everything's weird. Why I keep shooting

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Speaker 2: each other? So you get autonomous Marxists and the autonomous

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Speaker 2: in Italy are mostly doing this urban guerrilla thing. But

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Speaker 2: then autonomism starts spreading throughout the rust of Europe up

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Speaker 2: into Germany, and there the autonomous and the anarchists start

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Speaker 2: doing this thing that we've talked about way more on

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Speaker 2: the show, of creating this kind of subcultural outside the

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Speaker 2: systems space. And that's going to tie into radio a lot, right.

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Speaker 2: People who are like, well, we don't want to do

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Speaker 2: what we're told. We want to build an entirely different

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Speaker 2: society within this society are of course going to turn

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Speaker 2: to pirate radio and be some of the more influential

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Speaker 2: figures within it. And a side quest, I promised you Italy,

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Speaker 2: but what if we talk about Germany? Eh? Eh, So

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Speaker 2: the side quest over to follow those autonomous for a second.

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Speaker 2: Germany and East Germany are two of the most repressive

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Speaker 2: anti pirate radio societies going on at the time. East

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Speaker 2: Germany is repressive because state communism. West Germany because the

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Speaker 2: government is fighting tooth and nail against the squatter movement,

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Speaker 2: the punks, the autonomous, the anarchists to maintain control of

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Speaker 2: the cities. We talked about this a bit on the

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Speaker 2: Black Block episodes that people want to hear more about

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Speaker 2: this time. I've always sort of thought that there's like

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Speaker 2: almost two methods of policing, and one is exemplified by Germany,

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Speaker 2: and one is exemplified by like mostly the global South

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Speaker 2: or Mexico would be the main place that I kind

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Speaker 2: of know about this, where there's the kind of we

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Speaker 2: are going to control everything so rigidly that no one

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Speaker 2: steps out of line, and if they do, they are

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Speaker 2: like pacified and controlled and taken away, right. And then

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Speaker 2: there's societies that are like more permissive, but then the

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Speaker 2: cops are like more likely to while out and kill you.

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Speaker 2: And America is sort of both at once. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot of impunity. There's a lot of like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: they're just too using when and who to impose it against.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so Germany is this very repressive society, but

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Speaker 2: actually people are fighting back against it very successfully. But

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Speaker 2: in West Germany it only takes the state about ten

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Speaker 2: minutes to locate a pirate radio broadcast and show up

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Speaker 2: in force, and that is wild, Like that kind of

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Speaker 2: response time is just because you have to know what's happening,

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Speaker 2: which means you have to be watching all of the

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Speaker 2: airwaves over all of the city and have cops just

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Speaker 2: ready to go, and they did.

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Speaker 3: I've got some friends that do broadcasting through this thing

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Speaker 3: called the Fria Radio Network in Germany. A Radio Berlin

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Speaker 3: is one of these projects, Anarchist Radio Berlin. Yeah. I

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Speaker 3: was like asking one of my friends why they don't

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Speaker 3: have pirate broadcasts if there's such like a you know,

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Speaker 3: a history of squatting movements and such that he told

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Speaker 3: exactly that same story of just started recording in a

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Speaker 3: squad in Kreuzberg and then within like fifteen or twenty minutes,

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Speaker 3: a bunch of people in tactical uniforms with assault rifles

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Speaker 3: come through the door just to shut down a radio broadcast.

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Speaker 3: It's insane.

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Speaker 2: I can imagine it happening, but not that quickly. That's

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Speaker 2: the part that is I'm just like, yeah, I guess

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Speaker 2: they're just ready to go. And so you have this

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Speaker 2: culture where instead of having sustained pirate radio stations, you

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Speaker 2: have action stations which were set up on the fly,

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Speaker 2: often on the move in vehicles, for ten minute broadcasts

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Speaker 2: in order to accomplish some specific tasks and the three

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Speaker 2: tasks that I found. So this isn't a very good

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Speaker 2: way to like release your new single, although actually if

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Speaker 2: it's just a new single, actually that'd be kind of cool.

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Speaker 2: People should do that. Anyway, it's not what I'm aware

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Speaker 2: of them using it for. They would announce a demonstration,

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Speaker 2: they would release a communicate for some direct action that

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Speaker 2: had happened, or during an ongoing demonstration, they would provide

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Speaker 2: like information about what's happening. Those are the action stations

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Speaker 2: that I'm aware of. There was one exception that I

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Speaker 2: found a German station called Radio Dreeklund and that's probably

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Speaker 2: not how they pronounced it. In order to have this

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Speaker 2: German pirate radio station in the seventies or eighties, they

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Speaker 2: had to do it in France. It's kind of the

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Speaker 2: equivalent of doing an offshore radio station. It was largely

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Speaker 2: broadcast from forested mountains, so when the cops did try

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Speaker 2: to shut it down, they would just get lost and

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Speaker 2: couldn't find it in the wilderness, which rules, and these

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Speaker 2: pirates were willing to have some fun playing a high

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Speaker 2: stake pranks. At one point they came down into Germany

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Speaker 2: out of the mountains and they broadcast from the city

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Speaker 2: and I don't remember what city this is, and they

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Speaker 2: surrounded the building with hundreds of supporters right to hold

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Speaker 2: the police away so they could broadcast. So cops showed

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Speaker 2: up and push their way through the crowd and then

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Speaker 2: smashed up the entire building trying to find the transmitter.

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Speaker 2: The transmitter was not in that building. They just surrounded

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Speaker 2: a building in order to make the cops think it

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Speaker 2: was in that it was hidden nearby. They broadcasted the

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Speaker 2: entire time. It was just to waste the cops time.

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Speaker 2: And then they did literally the same thing again. They

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Speaker 2: went down into Germany, they surrounded a building with protesters

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Speaker 2: and they broadcast from somewhere else and the cops fell

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Speaker 2: for it the same way the second time.

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Speaker 3: When was this in the like seventies or I.

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Speaker 2: Think this is late seventies, early eighties. I have a

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Speaker 2: lot more really specific information when we get to the

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Speaker 2: UK pirate radio stations, because I read a blow by

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Speaker 2: blow written at great length by our voice radio or

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Speaker 2: our radio. It's in the script. I'll get to it.

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Speaker 2: But when I'm covering a lot of the other ones,

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Speaker 2: I'm finding like references in various interviews with people like ah,

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Speaker 2: remember that time we did the thing, and I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to cross reference them as much I was able to

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Speaker 2: find this lesson, like here's a history book describing everything,

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Speaker 2: and I had to do a lot more cross reference,

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Speaker 2: and so things are a little blurrier when I'm talking

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Speaker 2: about these ones.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the one. The only thing that I really know

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Speaker 3: about the autonomous movement is stuff that I pulled from

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Speaker 3: this Cutzia Ficus book The Subversion of Politics, and it

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Speaker 3: talks about autonomous movements in Italy and I think in

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Speaker 3: Netherlands and Germany. But I don't think I ever heard

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Speaker 3: about Radio Drickland.

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Speaker 2: That's cool, Yeah, but it probably talks about radio Alllysis,

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Speaker 2: which I'm about to get to because we're going to

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Speaker 2: go back to Italy now, because I promised you Italy.

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Speaker 2: In Italy, laws were loosened up in nineteen seventy four

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Speaker 2: to allow non state operated radio stations, and hundreds or

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Speaker 2: thousands of different micro stations took to the airwaves. The

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Speaker 2: stuff I've read basically is like this is just like

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Speaker 2: how people practically had conversations for a couple of years.

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Speaker 2: The sort of social media of the time is like

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Speaker 2: all of these micro stations everywhere, which sounds really fun. Yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 2: And an awful lot of these are autonomous or anarchist,

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Speaker 2: and a lot of them are tied into this wild

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Speaker 2: protest culture that's happening that is both like labor move

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Speaker 2: movement stuff and urban gorilla and like all kinds of

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Speaker 2: occupations and yeah, totally, And the most famous of these stations,

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Speaker 2: as best as I can tell, I genuinely think this

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Speaker 2: is the most famous of these stations, but obviously my

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Speaker 2: sources are biased towards thinking the radical stations are the

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Speaker 2: most famous was a station called Radio Alice, based out

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Speaker 2: of the city of Bologna, and it ran for years

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Speaker 2: despite heavy repression coming into it. You said you've heard

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Speaker 2: a bit about Radio.

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Speaker 3: Alice, Yeah, and I don't know, Like we've done interviews

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Speaker 3: on our show in the past with people involved in

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Speaker 3: student movements or like occupations to defend forests I think

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Speaker 3: in Bologna also. But Bologna, I know, has like a

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Speaker 3: very long radical history and is one of the centers

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Speaker 3: of like lyftist politics in Italy. But I've heard the

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Speaker 3: name Radio Alice like thrown out as maybe like a

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Speaker 3: gimme line in like a Patti Smith song or something

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Speaker 3: like that. I don't know interest about it, though.

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Speaker 2: Okay, they had this radio station, Radio Alice and Bologna,

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Speaker 2: and it's sort of a quintessential version of what this

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Speaker 2: sort of seventies and eighties pirate radio tended to look like,

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Speaker 2: which is these very political stations that specifically well According

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Speaker 2: to an article by Julius Gavroche Quote, Radio Alice's output

294
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Speaker 2: covered a myriad of subjects labor protests, poetry, yoga lessons,

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Speaker 2: political analysis, love declarations, cooking recipes, Jefferson airplane area which

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Speaker 2: appears to be the name of a band or Beethoven music.

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Speaker 2: I've never heard of this band, area. I should have

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Speaker 2: looked them up. Do you know this band?

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Speaker 3: Either of you na never heard of them?

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Speaker 4: Nop.

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Speaker 2: I wonder if it's a translation of an Italian name anyway,

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Speaker 2: whatever I'm no longer quoting. It was organized by a

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Speaker 2: weekly assembly of all of the different groups that use

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Speaker 2: this radio station. Like there'd be like a gay group

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Speaker 2: and a feminist group and a workers group and things

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Speaker 2: like that. And this was kind of the model for

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Speaker 2: every political pirate station that I've found. They tend to

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Speaker 2: be run collectively or cooperatively long anarchistor autonomous principles, but

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Speaker 2: are open to all sorts of different groups. It's this

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Speaker 2: thing that happens a lot where when you need to

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Speaker 2: get people together and have everyone be treated as equals

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Speaker 2: across a political spectrum, you need a non hierarchical model

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Speaker 2: for that. So there'll be emphasis on different special interest

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Speaker 2: groups like queer rights, black power, labor organizing, women's groups,

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Speaker 2: the anti nuclear movement is a big part of a

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Speaker 2: lot of these. So all of these different collectives come

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Speaker 2: together to run a radio station together. I think that's

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Speaker 2: real cool.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that makes sense. I wonder if, like the groups

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Speaker 3: just sort of like are pre existing, and then they

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Speaker 3: have like a radio committee within them, you know what

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Speaker 3: I mean. Like if there's like a feminist collective for

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Speaker 3: you know, pushing for social wage or something like that,

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Speaker 3: and they're like, who's going to go do the radio

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Speaker 3: slat that we've got for feminist struggle.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I could really easily see both things happening where

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Speaker 2: they're like, oh, there's a new radio station, Hey, let's

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Speaker 2: get together and do a women's show. Or they're like, hey,

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Speaker 2: we're the local feminist organization. We're going to get together

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Speaker 2: and you know, we're going to yeah, put together an

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Speaker 2: hour of content every week or whatever. You know. Radio

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Speaker 2: Alice was wildly influential on culture, and it accomplished a

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Speaker 2: lot in a few short years. One participant in this

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Speaker 2: who's much more famous for other things, And when I

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Speaker 2: say much more famous, I mean to a really niche

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Speaker 2: part of our audience is the autonomoust author Bifo, who

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Speaker 2: wrote about it. Quote in Bologna nineteen seventy seven, there

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Speaker 2: was a movement in schools, in the universities and in

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Speaker 2: some of the factories, and a zone of the city

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Speaker 2: was occupied. So basically everyone comes together and occupies the city.

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Speaker 2: The police came into the university and killed someone in

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Speaker 2: the movement, and for three days the town was occupied

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Speaker 2: and barricaded. In the period of the riots, Radio Alice

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Speaker 2: was one of the means of communication, organization, and information

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Speaker 2: for the people. And so I like this thing that

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Speaker 2: a lot of cultural stuff does, where you create an

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Speaker 2: infrastructure and then when it's needed, it steps up into

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Speaker 2: a radical, you know, role or whatever. Although I suppose

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Speaker 2: Gramsci would probably say that it was radical and purposeful

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Speaker 2: all the time as participating in the cultural I don't

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Speaker 2: remember how Grimy.

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Speaker 3: I love your Marxist speech that you just did.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. I've been practicing that for a while.

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Speaker 2: I was really sad. I was in Italy and I

355
00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,040
Speaker 2: was like on tour talking about anarchist fiction and people

356
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Speaker 2: are like, oh, like Gramsci and I'm like, man, I

357
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Speaker 2: don't I don't fuck with no Marxist whatever. I'm a

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Speaker 2: young asshole. And then they would explain his ideas and

359
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,439
Speaker 2: I was like, yes, that is very similar to what

360
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Speaker 2: I thought I came up with. I see that people

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Speaker 2: think about things.

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Speaker 3: Smart changing culture. Here we go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And during these riots, during the occupation of the city.

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Speaker 2: Folks at the barricades would call into the radio station

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Speaker 2: and be like, hey, we need more people or whatever.

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Speaker 2: It's such and such intersection. Unfortunately, by making themselves indispensable

369
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Speaker 2: to this movement, on the second cops raided and smashed

370
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Speaker 2: everything up at Radio Alice. Although they rebuilt eventually, Radio

371
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,840
Speaker 2: Alice was successfully repressed. But they had a particular poetry

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Speaker 2: to everything. They wrote. In one manifesto, this is actually

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Speaker 2: a thing that does make them different than a lot

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Speaker 2: of the other pirate radio stations. Everything they write is

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Speaker 2: like incomprehensibly poetic. In one manifesto written by some Radio

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Speaker 2: Alice arrestees during their time in jail, as best as

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Speaker 2: I can tell, they wrote, quote, this is an invitation

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Speaker 2: to speak and think, in invitation to always be present

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Speaker 2: in the situations in the town, the neighborhoods, the schools,

380
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Speaker 2: the barracks, the factories, the roads. Let's exhaust the enemy.

381
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Speaker 2: Let's wear the giant monster by beating it all over

382
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Speaker 2: its body. Let's not talk about desires anymore. Let's desire.

383
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Speaker 2: We are desiring machines, machines of war.

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Speaker 3: That is yeah, incredibly poetic, I know, But.

385
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Speaker 2: Do you know who else is invited to speak on

386
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Speaker 2: our show.

387
00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:02,600
Speaker 3: The hydra.

388
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,480
Speaker 2: Yes, right, I say, that's a metaphor for capitalism, and

389
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,520
Speaker 2: that is who is now going to be present and

390
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 2: talking to you and we're back. Okay, wait, what's the hydra?

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Speaker 3: Oh? I was just thinking of the idea of this,

392
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Speaker 3: like we're going to be in many places all at

393
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Speaker 3: once and doing these things, and like the there's a

394
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Speaker 3: really good book by I'm actually not going to remember

395
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:28,800
Speaker 3: the names of the authors, but Rehdicker was one of them,

396
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:33,440
Speaker 3: called the Many Headed Hydra, about collaborative organizing in the

397
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Speaker 3: early colonial period in North America by different populations to

398
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,280
Speaker 3: resist It's called the many Headed Hydra. Really good history.

399
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Speaker 2: It was a positive version of a hydra.

400
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:46,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're actually reclaiming it consciously because I guess it

401
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,320
Speaker 3: was coming up a lot in the writings, for instance,

402
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,320
Speaker 3: of Shakespeare at the time of talking about the need

403
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,440
Speaker 3: to suppress all of these like many varied you know,

404
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:01,679
Speaker 3: dark skinned, evil people that are promoting discord in our colonies.

405
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Speaker 3: That they were positing the Empire of Britain as being

406
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Speaker 3: a colonizing good that acted as hercules to destroy the hydra.

407
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Speaker 2: But and so these people are like fuck yeah, we're

408
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Speaker 2: the hydra. Fuck you hercules.

409
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Speaker 3: Yeah you can't get all our heads look at us.

410
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:22,199
Speaker 2: Go hell yeah, that's awesome. I like reclaiming that. Another

411
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:26,680
Speaker 2: thing that the same Radio Alice zine that is incomprehensible.

412
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,200
Speaker 2: I was like, oh great, I found a zene about

413
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 2: Radio Alice. It is incomprehensible. It is so beautiful, as

414
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 2: many beautiful parts. I had to piece most of what

415
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 2: I got about Radio Alics from different interviews, mostly with Bifo,

416
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Speaker 2: but elsewhere in the zine it says, quote, the practice

417
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Speaker 2: of happiness is subversive when it becomes collective. And I

418
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,359
Speaker 2: love that. I love that. I'm trying to research Radio

419
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 2: Alice and instead I learn a single line that pulls

420
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 2: apart exactly what's wrong with like the self care narrative.

421
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 2: I don't know, the practice of happiness is subversive when

422
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 2: it becomes collective. Fuck yah, let's be happy together. So

423
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 2: the state was like, no, I don't want you to

424
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Speaker 2: be happy together. And so they are instead repressing these

425
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Speaker 2: hundreds or thousands of radio stations as fast as they can.

426
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Speaker 2: But in the end, the state doesn't successfully repress all

427
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 2: of these small voices. They find a better way to

428
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 2: do it. They legalized radio piracy, and as they intended,

429
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 2: this means that the commercial radio pirates take over. They

430
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,880
Speaker 2: can afford these huge transmitters that just wipe out all

431
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 2: of the smaller you know, people talking about things. And

432
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,159
Speaker 2: so the commercial radio comes in and they want to

433
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:45,399
Speaker 2: just replicate the American radio model. The spoken word is diminished.

434
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 2: Everyone's playing the same songs, and the radio stations start

435
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,639
Speaker 2: buying each other out and building a monopoly. It's the

436
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 2: dream of radio Caroline has come to Italy and yeah,

437
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,639
Speaker 2: that's Italy. I guess that one doesn't end. But they

438
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,239
Speaker 2: wrote cool stuff along the way, And I don't actually know.

439
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 2: Almost everything I read about all of this stuff was

440
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 2: like written in the eighties, and so I can't speak

441
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 2: as much to what it's like now.

442
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 3: Even if like the projects ended up ending, they had

443
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 3: an amazing influence in the meantime, Like they helped to

444
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 3: shape people's lives, people helped to shape that itself.

445
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 2: Totally.

446
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's pretty inspirational.

447
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. And you a low further west to Spain

448
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 2: and France and you find another model for how to

449
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:36,439
Speaker 2: do independent radio federations, radio pirates in Spain and France

450
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,879
Speaker 2: resisted repression fairly effectively for a while. To be clear,

451
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 2: my main source on a lot of this is a

452
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,639
Speaker 2: zine out of the UK called The Radio is My

453
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 2: Bomb that came out in nineteen eighty seven, and so

454
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 2: I don't have a lot of it, and then this

455
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 2: is what happened later information about these things, but at

456
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 2: least one of the French stations is still around. In

457
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 2: Spain and especially in France, the political pirate stations organized

458
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 2: together and organized well. When you need crime organized, there's

459
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 2: two groups that you can turn to, and abortion rights

460
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 2: show this really clearly. There's hierarchical capitalist organizations like the

461
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 2: mafia very good at organizing crime. No one is denying

462
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 2: that they can organize crime. In fact, they just call

463
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 2: them organized crime.

464
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, Yeah, there's the of organized crime.

465
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, they really are. The other group that has proven

466
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 2: really good at organizing crime at scale is a narcosyndicalists.

467
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 2: We covered this a bit in our episodes about abortion

468
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:43,880
Speaker 2: in Germany during the Weimar Republic, where a narcosyndicalist organizing

469
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 2: models were being used all across the country to perform

470
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 2: millions of abortions a year, completely illegally and safely, well

471
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 2: as safely as anyone was able to do it in

472
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 2: the nineteen twenties. And an narcosyndicalist tend to form federations

473
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 2: collecting diverse groups who work together to defend each other,

474
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:06,400
Speaker 2: which is what pirate Radio needed. So in Spain, when

475
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 2: the dictator Franco Franco whatever well in the fucking asshole

476
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 2: of two names that are the same name in a

477
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 2: row died in nineteen seventy five, democracy returned and the

478
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 2: state monopoly on radio went away, and free radio popped up.

479
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 2: Various stations formed a federation, the CRL, and they agreed

480
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 2: to certain rules for themselves. And this is an interesting

481
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,400
Speaker 2: set of rules that I can't quite tell you exactly

482
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 2: what it means about the ideology of the people who

483
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:40,360
Speaker 2: formed it. No political parties, no unions like, no labor unions,

484
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 2: because the labor unions in Spain have kind of comparable

485
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 2: amounts of powers of political party in some ways.

486
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, but what about like the CNT.

487
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 2: That's great, I know anyway, That's why I'm like, I

488
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 2: do not know exactly what they mean by that part

489
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 2: of it, that they would promote music by independent musicians,

490
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 2: and they would transmit with limited power so that a

491
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 2: lot of people can get on the air, and hundreds

492
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 2: of these stations existed as part of this federation.

493
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 3: Was that like the Libertarian Confederation of Spanish Radios?

494
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 2: Is it? Oh? Probably? I again when I this comes

495
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,479
Speaker 2: out of an old photocopied zine from the nineteen eighties,

496
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,919
Speaker 2: and I tried searching most of this shit and it

497
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 2: is just like if it's on the internet, it's not

498
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 2: in English, you know, or would take me uncovering even

499
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 2: more rocks than I managed to over. In France, pirate

500
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 2: radio was heavily repressed by the right wing government of

501
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,640
Speaker 2: the late seventies. In nineteen eighty one, the Socialist Party

502
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 2: came to power and for a very brief period they

503
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 2: were like, what if we're nice and so they got

504
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 2: rid of the state monopoly on radio. But by nineteen

505
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 2: eighty two legalization prioritized large commercial stations. The non commercial

506
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 2: pirates formed several federations. One of them, the FNRL, had

507
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 2: three hundred stations committed to being non commercial. Though this

508
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 2: isn't an ad pivot. Some of them. Leftist stations in

509
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 2: France did also sell ads. I'm unsure if those ones

510
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,199
Speaker 2: could federate with the FNRL or not, But I know that, like,

511
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 2: it's actually a thing that I like always look for

512
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 2: when I research, because I think about my own compromises

513
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 2: that I make in this world, and I like radical

514
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 2: newspapers throughout the years were almost always selling ads anyway.

515
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 3: They were probably just like picky about who they're selling to,

516
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 3: like not the Washington State Police or like certain companies

517
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 3: selling gold or yeah, potato mafia.

518
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, God, wouldn't that suck if that happened, if someone

519
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 1: without their consent?

520
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,199
Speaker 2: That's just so yeah. Yeah, what if a network of

521
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 2: radical podcasts had like specifically said these are the categories

522
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 2: that we refuse to advertise with.

523
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 1: And then they put the Washington State Patrol under business.

524
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 2: It's kind of honest, it says a lot.

525
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

526
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:59,919
Speaker 2: Yeah. So the pirate radio station that I learned them

527
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,919
Speaker 2: about in France, the most famous of these is Radio Libertaire,

528
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 2: run by the French Anarchist Federation. And this radio station

529
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,199
Speaker 2: started a nineteen eighty one and you probably know more

530
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 2: about this than I do. I believe is still going

531
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 2: strong today at eighty nine point four FM in Paris.

532
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I got to visit them in like twenty eighteen

533
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 3: and kind of check out the station. It's really cool

534
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 3: they have I think since about the beginning they've still

535
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 3: had this like a continuous broadcast of a show that's

536
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 3: teaching people how to speak esperanto. That's not the only

537
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 3: things they do. Like it sounds like a joke, but

538
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 3: it's amazing. But no, that is like one of their

539
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 3: longest running shows. The Final Start is a part of

540
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 3: this network called the a radio network that Radio Libertaire

541
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 3: at least used to participate in. But that's good. It's

542
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 3: a pretty cool project.

543
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 2: And also like, what is that forty four years that

544
00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 2: they've been around so far? That is longer than most

545
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 2: commercial projects period, you know.

546
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they showed that they can do it right.

547
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 3: They've got like this big collaboration of people volunteering over

548
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 3: a forty four year period, Yeah, to make decisions to

549
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 3: clean the building, to like fund the place. Like that's

550
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 3: I think they might get a little bit of state funding.

551
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 3: I'm not sure, but it's possible.

552
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 2: I do know that they get eighty nine point four

553
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,719
Speaker 2: reserve for them because of a whole lot of rioting

554
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 2: that I'm about to talk about. Oh cool, the radio

555
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 2: station Radio Libertaria has gone through so much. It was

556
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 2: raided and then it was legalized, and then it was banned,

557
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 2: and then it was raided, and then it eventually it

558
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 2: was just tolerated as something the state couldn't get rid of.

559
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 2: Like other anarchist stations. I've found. It's let all sorts

560
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 2: of different groups use it, and it had a huge

561
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 2: listenership of all sorts of people who are just happy

562
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 2: to have a more independent voice on air. Like they

563
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 2: didn't conceive of their listenership as inherently anarchist or whatever. Right,

564
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 2: but by nineteen eighty three the writing was on the wall.

565
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 2: French government started talking about all the complaints about the

566
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 2: crowded FM radio air space, specifically the anarchists were to

567
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 2: be targeted to make room for more of the commercial

568
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 2: stations that were going to play nice with the government.

569
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 2: Radio Libertaire started to get ready. They threw benefit concerts

570
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 2: and they started mobilizing their listenership to get ready to

571
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 2: defend it. And it helped that the most popular singer

572
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 2: songwriter in France at the time was this guy, Leo

573
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 2: fair Feerri And I don't know what letters I'm supposed

574
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 2: to drop off of the end of French things. He

575
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 2: was an anarchist who appeared on air with them and

576
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 2: said you can count on me if things get rough

577
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 2: and you're put off air. The fight for this radio

578
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 2: station is what brought anarchism back to the cultural and

579
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 2: political scene in France and pulling them out of marginalization

580
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 2: so they start getting ready. Several teams of activists with

581
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 2: Cbee radios patrolled the area around the station for weeks

582
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 2: to scout for police raids. They barricaded the studio and

583
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 2: started broadcasting all day and night. When the cops came,

584
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 2: it was around five forty am on Sunday, August twenty eighth,

585
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty three. A scout called in the radio and

586
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 2: the heads up gave the radio operators time to call

587
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 2: another pirate station here and now, who started broadcasting about

588
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 2: the raid. While it was happening, the cops closed off

589
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 2: the surrounding area playing closed cops were holding up drivers

590
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 2: at gunpoint to make sure they weren't supporters. On their

591
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 2: way to defend the radio station. The cops smashed in

592
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 2: the door and beat everyone they found inside and after

593
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 2: the raid. This was global news and the reason it

594
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 2: was global news is because the International Anarchist Federation made

595
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 2: it global news. There were support actions for this radio

596
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 2: station in Switzerland, Belgium, Germany, Italy, Australia, Japan, the USA,

597
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 2: and Mexico at least syndicalis Labor unions were powerful forces

598
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 2: in Spain and Norway and Sweden at the time and

599
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 2: started organizing there about it and started bothering their governments

600
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 2: about it, being like, hey, we're like a really big

601
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 2: union and you're going to I'll listen to us, and

602
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 2: you need to start putting pressure on France about this

603
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 2: radio station, like that's fucking tight. Yeah, And so in

604
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 2: Paris thousands of people showed up from all sorts of

605
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 2: groups and they marched to the smashed up radio station.

606
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 2: A pirate technician set the radio station back up, apparently

607
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 2: like on the toilet, Apparently that was like the only

608
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 2: place you could sit or something, and I'm not entirely

609
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 2: sure concerts with famous musicians. Some Socialist Party members of

610
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 2: the government started defending it, and basically everyone just was like, look,

611
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 2: we may or may not be anarchist, but no, thank you,

612
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 2: we would like to keep our anarchist radio station because

613
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 2: we like it. And we're willing to riot about it,

614
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 2: and it forced the state to give them a permit

615
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 2: and they're still around today.

616
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 3: Can you imagine that happening for a podcast they've been

617
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 3: kicked off of Spotify or whatever, like people going to

618
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 3: the streets.

619
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 2: I could weirdly see that, like the way things are going,

620
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 2: that there might be if people getting arrested for podcasts.

621
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, like I lost my left eye during the Joe

622
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 3: Rogan riots of twenty twenty seven or whatever.

623
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 2: Joe Rogan goes.

624
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 1: Woke, just like the way that like they just like

625
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: decide to do like culture wars over what was the.

626
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 4: Dumb one in the last two weeks.

627
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 1: Oh yeah the cracker barrel logo. Oh yeah, yeah, like yeah,

628
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: I just the standards are so low, so low.

629
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 2: But you know what else is low? These prices wow

630
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 2: on these goods and service. Actually there's usually not any

631
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 2: sales attached to these ads. It's usually just ads. But

632
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 2: imagine the prices as low, and by manifesting or rioting,

633
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 2: you can make prices go down.

634
00:33:53,960 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 3: Imagine low by high.

635
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 2: And we're back. And don't worry, listeners, you missed all

636
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 2: of us as old men yelling at clouds, so over

637
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 2: in the UK, the anarchist radio nerds were looking at

638
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 2: Spain and France with jealousy. They wanted a federation of

639
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 2: low power radio stations to support one another against state repression,

640
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,399
Speaker 2: and they tried hard to get it. They didn't win,

641
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 2: to be honest, but they learned a ton of shit

642
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 2: along the way, and they got a lot of shit done,

643
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 2: including working tirelessly to make the technical knowledge of building

644
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 2: transmitters more accessible to people and leaving me to read

645
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 2: way too many documents of things I don't understand. And

646
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 2: by doing this they helped pave the way for the

647
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 2: rave scene of the nineties, which isn't the main thing

648
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about, but like.

649
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 3: Are we going to talk reclaim the streets?

650
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:52,919
Speaker 2: Oh, we've been talking about that in the alter globalization movement,

651
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 2: but it's going to lead to all of that stuff.

652
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 2: I just love the tangled web of history, I know.

653
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 2: So about ten years after the offshore radio stations were

654
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 2: shut down in the late seventies, there was a London

655
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 2: campaign for open access radio called ComCom and it didn't work.

656
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 2: And then in nineteen eighty people formed London Open Radio

657
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 2: to lobby for alternative radio and it successfully raised some

658
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:21,399
Speaker 2: money but failed at lobbying, and so they just went

659
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 2: pirate instead and they formed our Radio on one oh

660
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 2: three point eight FM. And it's kind of interesting because

661
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 2: this one is like, Oh, I.

662
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 1: Thought you were saying are as in the letter.

663
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 2: You're saying our radio hour radio radio.

664
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 3: Oh I thought it was a pirate joke.

665
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 2: So did I wait? How did British people pronounce the

666
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:45,919
Speaker 2: word r ah ah?

667
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 4: Right?

668
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 2: Does that mean British pirates?

669
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 4: Go?

670
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 1: Ah, I'm just gonna head a time apologized to my

671
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 1: colleague James Stout for.

672
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 2: What you just did. Yeah, I try really hard to

673
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 2: not make British jokes sometimes I was right there. Oh,

674
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 2: I just try not do what James is on. Other

675
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 2: than the rest of the time, I just no, no, no, no, no,

676
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 2: that's the best time. That's the best time to make

677
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 2: those jokes. Yeah, fair enough. So they form our radio.

678
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 2: Oh you are. And it's kind of interesting because it's

679
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 2: like this one's actually a pretty ideologically diverse, well from

680
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 2: like progressive to anarchist group of people who form this.

681
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:32,399
Speaker 2: They keep talking in the ZNE They're like, we even

682
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 2: had labor voters in our group, And they're kind of

683
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 2: a little bit excited and embarrassed about that is the

684
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 2: tone of it. At the time, the commercial pirate engineers

685
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 2: were closely guarding how to build transmitters, and so the

686
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 2: first thing these nerds had to do was reverse engineer

687
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 2: a bunch of transmitters. They didn't have YouTube back then,

688
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 2: and they started to tell people how to do it.

689
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 2: They know financial backers other than the folks around them.

690
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 2: They paid for the whole thing themselves, despite all of

691
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 2: them being broken on the dole, which is not pineapples

692
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 2: but is instead what universal basic income. That's not technically true. Whatever, Anyway,

693
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 2: it's not America. They have a little bit more money

694
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,320
Speaker 2: to play with. When they're broke, they throw the occasional

695
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 2: benefit show to help out. And transmitters were expensive in

696
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 2: the eighties. They get substantially more accessible and affordable in

697
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 2: the nineties, which is what made the aforementioned rave scene possible.

698
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 2: But our radio, our radio started broadcasting in nineteen eighty

699
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 2: two on Wednesday nights. They picked Wednesday because most of

700
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 2: the raids against pirate stations seemed to be happening on weekends,

701
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 2: and they were like, eh, eh, Although I think that

702
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 2: they should have done it on weekends because then there's

703
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 2: like they're busy rating other people, I don't know whatever.

704
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 2: They worked off of pre recorded cassettes because they couldn't

705
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 2: put any live broadcast equipment alongside the transmitter because of

706
00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 2: the fear of busts. So this is like almost closer

707
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 2: to a German style thing where they're like they're hunting us.

708
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 2: You know, this isn't a like slowly the state is

709
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 2: going to be like, oh, I guess we should shut

710
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,800
Speaker 2: this down. They are like priate radio is being hunted

711
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 2: down in England at this time.

712
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 3: Now, like in the US, where you might get a

713
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 3: letter saying please cease and desist again, is that actually

714
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 3: what happens, Yeah, generally the US, because it I mean,

715
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 3: this is like a positive of not really funding parts

716
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 3: of the federal enforcement part of the government. Is the

717
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 3: SEC operates around pirate broadcasts based on complaints. And so

718
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 3: if you're stepping on someone's broadcast with yours that station,

719
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,240
Speaker 3: I complain, or regular listeners of that station, I complain.

720
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 3: If you're like my Alma mater and nobody else is

721
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 3: broadcasting on that frequency, then you can get away with

722
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 3: it for a long time until you decide to play

723
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 3: SEC at noon on a Monday, you know, and that

724
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 3: goes against the community standards, that gets people's hackles up.

725
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 3: The FCC hears it. I think in that case they

726
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 3: probably came to visit because of that poke in the

727
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 3: eye that they got. But oftentimes the SEC, they'll try

728
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 3: to find the address of the person where it's being

729
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 3: broadcast from, send them a letter that says cease and

730
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 3: desist from doing this, and so you get a warning

731
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 3: and then it's after that they'll start finding you or

732
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 3: maybe sending law enforcement to cut it down afterwards. So

733
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 3: like Berkeley Liberation Radio for a bunch of years they

734
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 3: aired US back in like twenty ten or twenty eleven,

735
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,839
Speaker 3: and they had their shit locked down in a van

736
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:33,399
Speaker 3: that would just drive around Alameda County and broadcast from

737
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 3: different places on an FM radio like a set schedule.

738
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 3: I would imagine you couldn't hear it sometimes, but if

739
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 3: they drove up into the Oakland Hills, you could probably

740
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 3: pick it up from all over the Bay area.

741
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, this isn't legal advice, but that's good to know.

742
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 3: Vans are useful.

743
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone needs a van. They're working off of pre

744
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 2: recorded cassettes and they were working to build a link transmitter,

745
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 2: like some kind of microwave transmitter, to be able to

746
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,839
Speaker 2: do it live by being in a second location and

747
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 2: broadcasting to their own transmitter, but they couldn't afford it.

748
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 2: They were like working on building it before the whole

749
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 2: thing got shut down. Our radio was run by consensus,

750
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 2: and many of the people and the collective wanted to

751
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 2: ban political parties from contributing, but some labor folks were

752
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 2: there and so that wasn't consensed upon. And they themselves

753
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 2: were all against advertising, but they decided they wouldn't ban

754
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,879
Speaker 2: shows that chose to include advertising, and Margaret from twenty

755
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 2: twenty five appreciates their willingness to compromise on that issue.

756
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 2: In only a short time, they accomplished so much. They

757
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 2: had all sorts of shows. They had Utapia, which was

758
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 2: like Utopia with a tape in it that was a

759
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 2: mixture of plays and poetry and music. Gay Waves was

760
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 2: the first ever radio program in England by and four homosexuals.

761
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 2: It was two hours long with music and news, and

762
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 2: it was an open access show for gay men, and

763
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 2: it was working on becoming a six hour show. It

764
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 2: was going to be two for gay men two for

765
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 2: lesbians and two for both doing humored together. I would

766
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,240
Speaker 2: love to have heard nineteen eighty four or whatever humor

767
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 2: that is gay men and lesbians trying to do jokes together.

768
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 3: Was homosexuality legalized at this point yet in the UK?

769
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,360
Speaker 2: Do you know, Oh Lord, I've covered this before and

770
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 2: I can't remember. The Gay Liberation Front stuff has already

771
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 2: been happening in the UK at this point, but I

772
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 2: can't remember. I know they had some pretty wild sodomy

773
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 2: loss for a while. This is the show Gay Waves

774
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 2: that got the most ire and the most complaints. The

775
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 2: cops in the mainstream papers hated Gay Waves, but so

776
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 2: did mainstream gay papers because they didn't like that Gay

777
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 2: Waves was lefty as hell and a time when gays

778
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:42,320
Speaker 2: were supposed to be doing assimilation. Then there was Women

779
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 2: on the Waves, music buy and for women, put together

780
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 2: by various feminist and anarca feminist groups. The Message was

781
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 2: a sort of the central catch all political show of

782
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 2: the radio station was run by anarchists, but it was

783
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 2: opened to all radicals who weren't fascists, sexists, or racists.

784
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 2: The Free Space was the explicitly anarchist show. The Bag

785
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 2: was a late night show. They had a Polish show

786
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 2: for Polish exiles from Soviet controlled Poland that worked in

787
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 2: conjunction with a pirate radio station from beyond the Iron Curtain,

788
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 2: and instead of running a black show on their station,

789
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 2: they worked in conjunction with Dread Broadcasting Corporation, which was

790
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 2: a black reggae station that used our radio's equipment and expertise,

791
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,399
Speaker 2: but remained independent as a separate station. I hope these

792
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 2: shows are archived somewhere. If you're listening and nowhere to

793
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 2: find this shit, please let me know now. The way

794
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 2: the station went off the air was because they kept

795
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 2: getting busted and couldn't afford to replace the equipment. But

796
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 2: in their own discussion of the matter, they felt like

797
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 2: it was because they didn't reach a large enough base

798
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 2: to support. Basically, they were like, if we had enough

799
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 2: people to defend us, we could have kept going. I

800
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 2: questioned this analysis because basically all of the pirates were

801
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 2: getting busted in the UK at that point, and then

802
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 2: throughout their own text, they make a big point of

803
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 2: showing that their political nature didn't make them any more

804
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 2: or less targeted than anyone else. Basically because like a

805
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 2: lot of other pirate radio stations were like, Oh, if

806
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,840
Speaker 2: we play it safe, we might get to be safe,

807
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 2: and so their whole point was like, no, playing it

808
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 2: safe doesn't keep you safe. You are still if you're

809
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 2: going to be an enemy of the state, be an

810
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:19,240
Speaker 2: enemy of the state. They transmitted from a different place

811
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 2: each week. They hauled around eighty pounds worth of equipment

812
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 2: and broadcasted from I think the roof of various apartment buildings,

813
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 2: and they would have scouts down on the street with

814
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 2: a CB radio to warn them of incoming cops. And

815
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 2: they successfully got away with this time after time, including

816
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 2: evading like a whole ton of raids. It helped that

817
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 2: they were all radio nerds, so they were listening into

818
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 2: the cops radios themselves, like literally like on their off time,

819
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 2: and so they'd be like, oh, the cops are like

820
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 2: thinking about busting the following people, or like they're really

821
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 2: trying to step it up this week or whatever. The

822
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,240
Speaker 2: first successful bust against them was on December fifteenth, nineteen

823
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,720
Speaker 2: eighty two. One person was arrested, they lost all their gear,

824
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 2: and a bystander was fined for admitting to listening to

825
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:11,399
Speaker 2: pirate radio. Never admit to anything. It took them five

826
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,800
Speaker 2: weeks to rebuild, but rebuild they did. When the police

827
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 2: tried a full scale raid on February twenty third, nineteen

828
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 2: eighty three, the pirates figured it out ahead of time,

829
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 2: and so they hid in a squatted flat in the

830
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 2: apartment building they were broadcasting from, and the cops didn't

831
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 2: get them there. They played cat and mouse pretty much

832
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 2: every week after that, escaping time and time again, but

833
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 2: then a month later, on March twenty third, they were

834
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 2: finally caught. The cops interrupted them in the middle of

835
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,280
Speaker 2: gay waves. They went back to the same apartment building

836
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 2: that had been caught at the first time, and they

837
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:44,799
Speaker 2: hid in the same flat, but the cops had a

838
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 2: warrant that time, so they got them out of the flat.

839
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 2: One person was arrested, all their gear was stolen, and

840
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 2: so ends our radio. The collective instead moves on to

841
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 2: supporting other radio stations around the country, and they a

842
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 2: bunch of more successful priate radio stations take off. But

843
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 2: this isn't an eighteen hour podcast. Pirate stations keep doing

844
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:09,360
Speaker 2: their thing on and off despite heavy repression, especially like

845
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:13,360
Speaker 2: different political groups will have like radio stations specifically themed

846
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 2: around like anti nuke movement stuff and things like that.

847
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 2: And then in the nineties and a story that I

848
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 2: haven't investigated that much about yet, transmitters got really cheap,

849
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 2: and much like how young rock and rollers in the

850
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 2: fifties took matters into their own hands when the BBC

851
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 2: wouldn't play their shit, both commercial and BBC radio weren't

852
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,839
Speaker 2: playing underground techno and shit, so people just started doing

853
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 2: it themselves. And unlike the fifties movement, it wasn't a

854
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 2: commercial movement. Okay, the Netherlands see pirates like Radio Veronica

855
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:46,359
Speaker 2: and the Netherlands were doing their thing, but the.

856
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 3: Dutch score Radio Veronica was the other. So we've got

857
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 3: this theme of women.

858
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, huh. I wonder if after Caroline they were just like,

859
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 2: all right, we gotta use British girl names.

860
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 3: Maybe it's like ships somehow.

861
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,280
Speaker 2: Oh maybe. All I know is that there's probably Radio

862
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 2: Margaret somewhere right here in our hearts, probably Radio Sophie. Oh,

863
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 2: radio burst says a different meaning, and we don't talk

864
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 2: about that. Oh Okay. The Dutch squatter movement would house

865
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 2: pirate radio in their squats, and since the squats themselves

866
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 2: we talked about this pretty early on in the show.

867
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 2: Dutch squats at this time were fortresses. The reason that

868
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 2: they resisted deviction is that they physically resisted eviction and

869
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 2: the police were not capable of evicting them despite trying,

870
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 2: and so they were able to transmit from the squats

871
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 2: and be like, well, you already tried to evict us

872
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 2: and fail, so what are you gonna do? Evict us

873
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 2: Rai Kaiser Radio was run out of six different barricaded

874
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 2: squats and it broadcast on one oh one megahertz. A

875
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:49,720
Speaker 2: bunch of the squats got legalized, literally on the condition

876
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 2: that they're like, all right, we'll legalize you if you please,

877
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 2: just don't let the pirate radio run out of there anymore.

878
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 2: And the pirates just moved all their stuff to different

879
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 2: squats throughout the city. There was women radio on Tuesday,

880
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 2: anarchist radio on Wednesday. During the riots, the radio would

881
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 2: transmit the locations of the police, and activists would listen

882
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 2: to ear pieces like they would have a little portable

883
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 2: radio and they would listen to an earpiece to know

884
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 2: where the police were. And it reached the point this

885
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 2: is the reason I want to talk about the Dutch

886
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 2: ones really quick. It reached the point where even the

887
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 2: police would tune into the pirate radio station during the

888
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 2: riots to have a sense of what was going on,

889
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 2: because the anarchists had a better information architecture than the

890
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 2: police did. The cops in the Netherlands were rating like

891
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 2: ten stations a day in the eighties, but there were

892
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 2: still so many more, six to twenty thousand different radio

893
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 2: stations in that tiny country. And by the mid eighties

894
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,240
Speaker 2: they were running a conference for radio pirates from around Europe.

895
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 2: And what happens after that, I don't know because my

896
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 2: sources were written around that time. And I'm sorry everyone,

897
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,760
Speaker 2: but I have one week to read the eighteen million things,

898
00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 2: and I try to anyway that's radio with me your

899
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:08,760
Speaker 2: host on a podcast that's not radio, and burse yay.

900
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 2: Any final thoughts.

901
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,280
Speaker 3: I kind of wonder when something like this is gonna

902
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 3: kick back in. I know that technology has changed so

903
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 3: much that a lot of it feels archaic and like

904
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 3: it doesn't really make that much sense, but it's also

905
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 3: so inexpensive, Like our area was devastated by Hurricane Helen

906
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 3: last year, and one of the biggest sources for information

907
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 3: for most people because all the internet infrastructure, the cellular infrastructure.

908
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 3: All that stuff just got washed down the hills. Was

909
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,720
Speaker 3: the local NPR station was able to keep running, keeping

910
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,720
Speaker 3: people up to date about what roads were closed, about

911
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 3: what water was safe to drink, where food was getting distributed,

912
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 3: where you could get a shower, where there was electricity

913
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 3: to charge stuff, what hospitals were open, all that sort

914
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 3: of stuff. Like radio feels like such an important piece

915
00:48:54,320 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 3: of technology that when stuff does happen, and considering that

916
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 3: environmental stuff is happening more and more, things that felt

917
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 3: really stable can go away and you know, a couple

918
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 3: of hours of heavy rain. Yeah, it's inspirational to hear

919
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:13,439
Speaker 3: about what people have done with this technology and makes

920
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:14,800
Speaker 3: me think about the possibilities.

921
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 2: That's a good point. And honestly, I wonder if as

922
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,280
Speaker 2: people move more and more away from listening to radio,

923
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 2: I wonder if it will be easier to get fewer

924
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 2: complaints when you run a pirate station. Although I did

925
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:31,240
Speaker 2: eventually learn that people do still listen to the radio,

926
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 2: including people I know, and so apparently it's a totally

927
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 2: normal thing. And I'm just like the only I never

928
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 2: listened to the radio when I'm driving person, I probably

929
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 2: would have a better sense of what's happening in the world,

930
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:45,759
Speaker 2: even if I listen to the commercial radio. But I

931
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 2: think that radio is preparedness beyond just like amateur radio stuff,

932
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:55,799
Speaker 2: but like literally like broadcasting on FM. It's a thing

933
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:57,800
Speaker 2: that gets done.

934
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 3: And also there's that thing that you pointed to just

935
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 3: now about like knowing what's going on in the world.

936
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:06,319
Speaker 3: I like the fact that the technology. I love podcasts like,

937
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 3: I listen to them constantly, but I often feel like

938
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 3: I'm in this little bubble and I get challenged a

939
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:12,759
Speaker 3: little bit when I have to like scan through the

940
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 3: dial and yeah, maybe he's stuff that I wouldn't seek

941
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 3: out otherwise, and maybe it's crap, but also maybe it's just,

942
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 3: you know, not the ear candy that I would go

943
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 3: for totally.

944
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, radio is a certain magic. I love being a podcaster.

945
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 2: But you know, who knows. Maybe you'll be listening to

946
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 2: this in the waste Lands of twenty twenty seven and

947
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 2: you'll be like, but Margaret, you are on the radio,

948
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:43,880
Speaker 2: and who knows to speak in a radio? You run

949
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:45,399
Speaker 2: a radio show? What is it?

950
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 3: Yeah? I'm the co host of The Final Straw Radio.

951
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 3: It's a long running anarchist podcast and radio show that

952
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 3: airs on about a dozen stations like little stations for

953
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 3: the most part around the US. But yeah, we cover

954
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:03,919
Speaker 3: also issues around folks organizing against their incarceration or against

955
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 3: conditions inside of prisons, or ecological struggles, anti war struggles,

956
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 3: anti fascist organizing, all sorts of stuff. It's worth checking

957
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 3: out and you can find it at TFSR dot media.

958
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 3: And I like the radio because I've been contacted by

959
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 3: prisoners that have heard the radio show before, and that's

960
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:23,520
Speaker 3: kind of cool to be able to get past all

961
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 3: the privatized media that they're allowed, Like they can only

962
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 3: get certain books, they can only get certain newspapers, they

963
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 3: can maybe hear podcasts from certain companies depending on the

964
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 3: tech that they've got inside, but if they've got a radio,

965
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 3: they can hear whatever happens to be coming through the airwaves. Yeah,

966
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:40,120
Speaker 3: but thanks for the opportunity to come on.

967
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 2: Fuck. Yah, it's actually one of the things I wanted

968
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:44,359
Speaker 2: to end up covering, and I just didn't end up

969
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:46,359
Speaker 2: having time in this as I know that every now

970
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 2: and then people set up radio stations like kind of

971
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:52,799
Speaker 2: the equivalent of Radio Free Europe, just outside prisons and

972
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 2: broadcast in the prisons.

973
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 3: I heard about a situation in maybe a dozen years

974
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 3: ago in the Midwest where somebody was charged with sneaking

975
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 3: into a prison basically or sneaking in materials into a prison.

976
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:12,919
Speaker 3: They had set up a pirate broadcast between like five

977
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 3: different prisons right at the corner of a couple of states,

978
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 3: including some federal prisons that were there, and sent flyers

979
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 3: into prisoners at each of the prisons. But that meant

980
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,400
Speaker 3: that like five different police forces of varying levels came

981
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:31,239
Speaker 3: down on them. Oh they've aided charges luckily, but that's

982
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,919
Speaker 3: good to know. Yeah.

983
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:35,759
Speaker 4: Well, so, if you got a thing you want to

984
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 4: plug Behind the Bastards is doing a live show in Portland,

985
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:42,320
Speaker 4: organ with all performer pursuits going towards the Portland Billfund

986
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,279
Speaker 4: and it will be on September twenty fifth at eight

987
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 4: pm PST at the Alberta Rose Theater. Tickets are on

988
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 4: sale now.

989
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:53,799
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, I'll plug that there is. If you want

990
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 2: to read another obsolete form of media communication that's incredibly useful,

991
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 2: long form writing or longish article writing that is constantly deplatformed,

992
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 2: just check out crimethink dot com. They always have articles

993
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:11,799
Speaker 2: from people all over the world involved in struggle and

994
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:14,439
Speaker 2: there's I don't know, a recent one that went up

995
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:20,279
Speaker 2: just now is about operational security for demonstrators and all

996
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:22,360
Speaker 2: kinds of good stuff there. They've been doing things for

997
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 2: a long time. They're pretty reliable.

998
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 3: I think they just put one out too, like collecting

999
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 3: voices of folks involved in the uprising in Indonesia, which

1000
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:30,600
Speaker 3: is pretty amazing.

1001
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 2: I haven't finished reading it yet, so I was like,

1002
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 2: that's actually why I was thinking about it, is that

1003
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 2: I was reading it before we hit record. But yeah,

1004
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 2: if you want to find out what's going on all

1005
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 2: over the world, that's another way to do it is

1006
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 2: by reading. And so this podcast is brought to you

1007
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:51,400
Speaker 2: by reading. It's in a book. It's that's probably copyrighted

1008
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 2: jingle anyway from someone who also runs a podcast. I

1009
00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 2: will see everyone soon, including everyone on this call and

1010
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 2: all of you listeners. I will see every single one

1011
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 2: of you. I will peer in through your nope, in

1012
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:12,760
Speaker 2: your dreams and dreams. Yep, all right, by bye anymore?

1013
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:14,440
Speaker 3: Goodbye.

1014
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1015
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:20,800
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media,

1016
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 1: visit our website Goolezonemedia dot com, or check us out

1017
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, app a podcasts, or wherever you

1018
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 1: get your podcasts.