WEBVTT - Restraints on Immigration Will Hurt the Economy, Carbonite's Ali Says

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Bloomberg P and L Podcast. I'm Pim Fox.

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<v Speaker 1>Along with my co host Lisa Abramowitz. Each day we

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<v Speaker 1>bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for

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<v Speaker 1>you and your money, whether you're at the grocery store

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<v Speaker 1>or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg P and L

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<v Speaker 1>Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and Bloomberg dot com. We

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<v Speaker 1>are broadcasting live from Carbonites Investor Day at their international

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<v Speaker 1>headquarters in downtown Boston. And well we're joined really by

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<v Speaker 1>our host right now, Muhammad Ali. He is the president

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<v Speaker 1>and the chief executive of Carbonite. Thank you very much

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<v Speaker 1>for hosting us. Thank you for being here. Um, let's

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<v Speaker 1>begin by just maybe outlining for people a bit of

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<v Speaker 1>a strategy change on the part of Carbonite, because I

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<v Speaker 1>can remember when it was focused almost exclusively on the consumer.

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<v Speaker 1>Back up your data and don't worry about it, but

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<v Speaker 1>there's been a shift. You bought some assets from s Gay,

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<v Speaker 1>you purchased a company, I believe earlier in the year

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<v Speaker 1>of double Take software in order to kind of shift

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<v Speaker 1>your strategy to move more into the enterprise. Can you

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<v Speaker 1>tell us about that? Yeah, no, thank you for asking.

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<v Speaker 1>Today is actually a big day here at Carponite. We're

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<v Speaker 1>using our investor day as an opportunity to really showcase

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<v Speaker 1>the strategy that we've implemented over the last three years,

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<v Speaker 1>which is a huge transformation for the company. As you

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<v Speaker 1>pointed out, we used to be and we still are,

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<v Speaker 1>that reliable company of backs up your laptop, but today

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<v Speaker 1>we now actually have a portfolio that we have built

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<v Speaker 1>both organically and inorganically that does what we call complete

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<v Speaker 1>data protection. As you know, data is everywhere now, it's

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<v Speaker 1>the most important asset. It's in the cloud, it's in

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of different clouds, it's on prem it's on

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<v Speaker 1>a whole bunch of operating systems. We're one of the

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<v Speaker 1>very very few companies now that can protect all that data,

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<v Speaker 1>your whole I T system, regardless of where it is. Mohammed,

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<v Speaker 1>you previously were chief strategy officer at Heltt Packard, You've

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<v Speaker 1>been at IBM. This is a smaller company, and I'm wondering,

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<v Speaker 1>can you speak to the unique challenges UH being in

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<v Speaker 1>a scrappy organization and say one of these uh legacy

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<v Speaker 1>behemoth tech companies. Sure, Um, you know, I actually start

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<v Speaker 1>up my career at a small company was called Adobe

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<v Speaker 1>before became a big company, and then I did and

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<v Speaker 1>artificial intelligence startup. Today we call that a big data startup.

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<v Speaker 1>So I love the small company. I love the scrappiness. Um. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, when I got to IBM and tow hb UM,

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<v Speaker 1>one of the one of the things that that that

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<v Speaker 1>scrappiness was able to allow me to do is to

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<v Speaker 1>help those companies transform because it was very difficult to

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<v Speaker 1>those companies transform from within. And so I, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I helped IBM transform into a software services company again

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<v Speaker 1>through a large number of divestitures and acquisitions to build

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<v Speaker 1>a portfolio. Uh. And then at HP, I you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I led the project to split the company into various parts.

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<v Speaker 1>Again sort of that scrappy thinking, Uh, if the company

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<v Speaker 1>is too big to really be successful, can you make

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<v Speaker 1>the smaller parts successful? So this, you know, the scrappy thinking,

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<v Speaker 1>as regardless of whether it's big company or small company,

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<v Speaker 1>is really important. We have that scrappy thinking here at Carbonite,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's why I think we've been able to you know,

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<v Speaker 1>more than double the company in the last two and

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<v Speaker 1>a half years. Does that scrappy attitude apply also to

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<v Speaker 1>spending money on marketing? Because this has a competitive business,

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<v Speaker 1>and as Lisa said, you you are smaller than some

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<v Speaker 1>of your competitors. I'm just gonna preview maybe one of

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<v Speaker 1>the questions you're gonna get at your investor day, which is,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, how much you're gonna spend a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>money on this? How are you going to afford all this? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, you know, we've been around for twelve years.

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<v Speaker 1>We started out as one of the very first companies

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<v Speaker 1>that advertise in radio software companies, uh, the advertising radio.

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<v Speaker 1>And we have learned through tremendous amount of data and analytics,

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<v Speaker 1>how to best deploy that money. And so twelve years later,

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<v Speaker 1>we can you know, we have an extremely advanced business

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<v Speaker 1>intelligence team that uses some of those artificial intelligence techniques

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<v Speaker 1>that I've talked about, you know, just just a little

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<v Speaker 1>while ago, to determine how to best place that money

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<v Speaker 1>and make it return in the most efficient way. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>one thing that we hear again and again from a

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<v Speaker 1>variety of chief executive officers is how difficult it is

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<v Speaker 1>to hire talent right now. Uh, and that you know

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<v Speaker 1>that the job market is incredibly tight, particularly in certain areas,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm wondering, uh, you know, clearly based on the

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<v Speaker 1>clear love of Star Wars in our offices. Um, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>there is a certain culture here. But I'm wondering on

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<v Speaker 1>a broader level, how concerned you are about um sort

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<v Speaker 1>of bigger U S policies like the H one B

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<v Speaker 1>visa policy. Uh, and whether you view that potentially affecting

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<v Speaker 1>your business. Oh, very concerned, and it certainly affects our business.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, if you think about America, America was

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<v Speaker 1>really built on this, uh, you know, incredible combination of

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<v Speaker 1>domestic talent and immigrant talent. I mean not just for

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<v Speaker 1>the last few years, but for two hundred years. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I walked in the office this morning and

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<v Speaker 1>I got this beautiful card with this long letter inside

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<v Speaker 1>from one of our employees. And I'm just gonna read

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<v Speaker 1>one paragraph. And she came. She came from China. It

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<v Speaker 1>was four years ago that I decided to come to

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<v Speaker 1>the United States to pursue my MBA because I believe

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<v Speaker 1>that if I work hard towards a clear goal, anything

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<v Speaker 1>is possible. And I found that with the right attitude

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<v Speaker 1>and inspirational leadership, such dreams can come true. Now, we

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<v Speaker 1>didn't hire her because she's from China. We hired her

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<v Speaker 1>because she was globally the best candidate for the job.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what makes American company strong. We're able to hire

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<v Speaker 1>the best and we're able to innovate better than anyone else.

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<v Speaker 1>If somehow, all of a sudden that is curtail or

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<v Speaker 1>these people go elsewhere, we have we have a problem here.

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<v Speaker 1>And if you think about the fact that over fifty

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<v Speaker 1>percent uh fortune companies here in Massachusetts were started by

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<v Speaker 1>an immigrant or a child of an immigrant. If we

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<v Speaker 1>no longer have those people, it's going to affect our economy.

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<v Speaker 1>You know. Earlier we were speaking with your chief evangelist,

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<v Speaker 1>Norman Guardgayell and yes, and we were talking about the

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<v Speaker 1>cyber threats and cyber tests because of course these are

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<v Speaker 1>in the headlines in the worst Equifax. Indeed, I want

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<v Speaker 1>to get your thoughts on that and what do you

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<v Speaker 1>believe will happen as a result. Uh Well, so, unfortunately,

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<v Speaker 1>I think we live in an era where more and

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<v Speaker 1>more of these things are going to happen. And what

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<v Speaker 1>carbonite does is it allows it allows you to bring

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<v Speaker 1>your business back to life after you've been either attacked

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<v Speaker 1>by one of these you know, cyber crime situation, whether

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<v Speaker 1>it's ransomware. Whether you've been hit by Hurricane Arama, whatever

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<v Speaker 1>the situation, carbon I will bring your company back to life. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>Now you still have to clean up afterwards, as Equifax

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<v Speaker 1>will have to do. But you know, unfortunately, they're just

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<v Speaker 1>so many of these cyber weapons out there now, developed

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<v Speaker 1>either by industry or by cy criminals or our governments,

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<v Speaker 1>and they're being leaked. So I think we are in

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<v Speaker 1>actually a very complicated time here. Well, I'd love to

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<v Speaker 1>wrap my head around what that means to bring the

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<v Speaker 1>business back. Does it mean restoring the data? Does it

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<v Speaker 1>mean uh, putting new encryptions in to prevent another attack?

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<v Speaker 1>What does that mean to you? Yeah? So, um so,

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<v Speaker 1>first and foremost, it's about resurrecting the business. So if

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<v Speaker 1>you get hit by a tornado or a hurricane, as

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<v Speaker 1>was the case just recently. We have a customer who

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<v Speaker 1>called us right before this hurricane was about to hit

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<v Speaker 1>the island the Caribbean and said, we need you to

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<v Speaker 1>back up our system so that if we no longer

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<v Speaker 1>have a hotel there, at least from home, we can

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<v Speaker 1>we have everything we can resurrect this, maybe not in

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<v Speaker 1>that computer environment, maybe in your cloud and that's something

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<v Speaker 1>we can do. We could spin up your entire I

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<v Speaker 1>T environment in our cloud and have you run as

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<v Speaker 1>long as you too in our cloth to keep going. Airlines,

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<v Speaker 1>for example, use us to ensure high availability, so if

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<v Speaker 1>their systems go down, they fail over to our systems

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<v Speaker 1>and they keep running. Now, in terms of preventive aspects, right, uh, like,

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<v Speaker 1>we also provide some level of security, but at the

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<v Speaker 1>end of the day, you're most likely going to get hit.

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<v Speaker 1>Mohamad Ali, thank you so much. Mohamed Ali, President, chief

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<v Speaker 1>executive officer of Carbonite, based in Boston. Part let's talk

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<v Speaker 1>about the future when it comes to small cap stocks,

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<v Speaker 1>and here to help us is Drew Bejia. He is

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<v Speaker 1>the vice president portfolio manager of the g I M

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<v Speaker 1>small Cap Focused Growth Strategy for Granaham Investment Management firm.

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<v Speaker 1>Why they manage over a billion dollars. The small Cap

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<v Speaker 1>Focused Growth fund has about a quarter of a billion

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<v Speaker 1>dollars and they are based in wolf M, mass Drew,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you very much for being with us and coming in.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe just first of all, make the case for small

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<v Speaker 1>cap stocks for people that may not be familiar with

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<v Speaker 1>this particular asset class. Sure, so we're we're looking for

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<v Speaker 1>small cap growth companies. And you know, our our clients

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<v Speaker 1>tend to be pension plans and now months that need

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<v Speaker 1>returns to essentially pay pay pensioners their retirement. What characterizes

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<v Speaker 1>small cap for you? Right? So, small cap typically it's

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<v Speaker 1>under two billion dollars put the sweet spots around a

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<v Speaker 1>billion dollars in market cap. And the idea is that

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<v Speaker 1>these companies, because they're small, can grow faster and accumulate

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<v Speaker 1>um can appreciate over the long long haul. So, Drew,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm looking at the performance of this fund and it's

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<v Speaker 1>up more than timber cent year to day, which is

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<v Speaker 1>ahead of the Rustle tooth hoousand. And I'm wondering, you

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<v Speaker 1>know what, what were the main drivers? What were the

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<v Speaker 1>sort of wagers that you got? Did you got right? Uh? So?

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<v Speaker 1>In generally, as I mentioned, we're looking for companies that

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<v Speaker 1>can grow and uh stocks that have good risk reward

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<v Speaker 1>and we take fairly concentrated bets five six seven percent

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<v Speaker 1>of the portfolio at times, and this year I think

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<v Speaker 1>we're actually up about or so and and what's uh

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<v Speaker 1>we've been able to do is is the bigger bets

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<v Speaker 1>have worked out and for the most part, the smaller

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<v Speaker 1>bets um, the ones that haven't worked out or have

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<v Speaker 1>been smaller positions are some of the companies that have

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<v Speaker 1>been a big winners. So we recently exited a position

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<v Speaker 1>in Shopify, which is no longer small cap, but his

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<v Speaker 1>uh you know, an e commerce solutions provider for small

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<v Speaker 1>to medium size businesses that has done very well this

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<v Speaker 1>year and risk reward and market cap uh cause us

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<v Speaker 1>to exit the position. What what what kind of h

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<v Speaker 1>work do you have to do in order to get

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<v Speaker 1>the information necessary to make these kinds of investments because

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<v Speaker 1>many small cap stocks are not covered by any analysts

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<v Speaker 1>and it doesn't seem to be a large following. Sure,

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<v Speaker 1>So at Grana hand we're a pretty small shop. We

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<v Speaker 1>have about twenty people, but uh seven of us are

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<v Speaker 1>very experienced in small caps. So we're very experienced team

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<v Speaker 1>that is looking for these small cap growth companies. I

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<v Speaker 1>call them desert island companies because if you sent me

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<v Speaker 1>to a desert island and come back five, six, seven,

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<v Speaker 1>ten years from now, they'd be uh much much more valuable,

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<v Speaker 1>they much bigger. So part of what we do is

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<v Speaker 1>exclusively look for those companies, and it's easier to find

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<v Speaker 1>diamonds in the rough if if you're if you're expresing,

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<v Speaker 1>But where do you go to? Where do you go

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<v Speaker 1>to find these? I mean, is it someone that comes

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<v Speaker 1>in with an idea, says, oh, my family just bought something,

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<v Speaker 1>or you went to an investor presentation, because a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of companies have trouble getting getting any kind of following

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<v Speaker 1>or anybody to wat you know, watch over them. Sure. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>as I mentioned, we have seven people looking for these

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<v Speaker 1>desert islands, secular growers and uh UM in that we

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<v Speaker 1>cover a pretty wide net and can quickly reject most companies.

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<v Speaker 1>So industry UM contacts suppliers, customers of companies we already know, etcetera. So, Drew,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, it's it's sort of this popular belief right

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<v Speaker 1>now that there's money flowing toward anything and everything that

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<v Speaker 1>asks for money right now, just given the current backdrop,

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<v Speaker 1>backdrop of central bank liquidity. Uh do you think that

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<v Speaker 1>that is an inaccurate characterization of this current market. I'd

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<v Speaker 1>have to say that there is capitals not scarce. UM

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<v Speaker 1>growth is scarce, and so I think you're seeing um

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<v Speaker 1>and and rates are low. So that combination is leading

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<v Speaker 1>toward investors to look for anything where they can have uh,

0:12:57.120 --> 0:12:59.679
<v Speaker 1>prospects for growth. Well, but I guess that's what I'm

0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:02.719
<v Speaker 1>getting at is, you know, how do you sort of

0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:06.760
<v Speaker 1>adjust your models to understand what value is at a

0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:10.000
<v Speaker 1>time when there is so much capital that's pushing up valuations,

0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:13.319
<v Speaker 1>and how do you adjust your your expectations for growth

0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:15.400
<v Speaker 1>going forward? Uh, you know, based on the idea that

0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:18.160
<v Speaker 1>this might this might end. Yeah, so that you separate

0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:20.880
<v Speaker 1>the asset from the price of the asset. So the

0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:25.480
<v Speaker 1>asset has in our case, little to do with the

0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:28.720
<v Speaker 1>access to capital. There's there's plenty of capital, so that

0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:31.800
<v Speaker 1>asset and our growth expectations, we're only looking for these

0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.679
<v Speaker 1>companies that are pretty rare that can sustain growth in

0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:37.760
<v Speaker 1>terms of pricing of the asset. You're right, there's been

0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:40.320
<v Speaker 1>a flood of capital. And what we do is a

0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:44.800
<v Speaker 1>probability weighted expected return, which has good scenarios and bad scenarios,

0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:48.480
<v Speaker 1>and we probably wait them so it tries to capture both.

0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:52.880
<v Speaker 1>So real quick, thirty seconds, what's your best idea right

0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:56.439
<v Speaker 1>now that you're looking at our company that you've recently bought. Uh, well,

0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:59.520
<v Speaker 1>not the best idea, because we have a fairly concentrate

0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:04.199
<v Speaker 1>concentrated UH portfolio. But for example, there's a company here

0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:07.400
<v Speaker 1>in Boston called ub spot UH. It's a platform for

0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:10.920
<v Speaker 1>small to medium sized businesses. They're basically created a category

0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:15.199
<v Speaker 1>called inbound marketing. We use it high value, add open

0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:20.560
<v Speaker 1>ended opportunity. Very interesting Desert Island company. The stock we

0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:23.120
<v Speaker 1>also think has good risk, reward and probability way to

0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:25.480
<v Speaker 1>expect the return. Drew Bejia, thank you so much for

0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:28.720
<v Speaker 1>joining us. Drew Bejia as vice president portfolio manager of

0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:32.120
<v Speaker 1>the g i M small cap focused growth strategy for

0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:37.040
<v Speaker 1>Grinahan Investment Management, which manages UH about a billion dollars

0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:50.960
<v Speaker 1>and is based in Waltham, Massachusetts. Let's bring in Margaret

0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:54.440
<v Speaker 1>Tollive right now. Our White House corresponded. Margaret is in Washington,

0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:56.480
<v Speaker 1>and Margaret, I'm wondering if you could just sort of

0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:59.720
<v Speaker 1>unpack a little bit of what the President was describing,

0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:01.960
<v Speaker 1>because it seems as though he was making a very

0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:06.160
<v Speaker 1>great distinction between the people of the various countries and

0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:09.760
<v Speaker 1>the responsibilities of the world leaders in order to fulfill

0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:16.080
<v Speaker 1>this promises he describes it of freedom, justice and peace. UH.

0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:18.920
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's really interesting because when we hear the

0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:21.960
<v Speaker 1>two messages of the president's speech. One was sort of UH,

0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:26.280
<v Speaker 1>uniting the world around action, UH, particularly towards North Korea

0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:29.840
<v Speaker 1>and also UM on Ivan. But the second was to

0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:32.840
<v Speaker 1>kind of drill home on this point that's been central

0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:36.040
<v Speaker 1>to his, you know, still relatively new political career, the

0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:40.560
<v Speaker 1>idea of of the primacy of nation states, of sovereignty

0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:42.600
<v Speaker 1>and such, and so the way he treated the needle

0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:46.280
<v Speaker 1>was again to say that you can be UM looking

0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:48.440
<v Speaker 1>out for number one. In effect, every country can have

0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:50.960
<v Speaker 1>its own version of an America First policy, and they

0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:56.080
<v Speaker 1>can still UM interact through the United Nations on issues

0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:59.120
<v Speaker 1>that rise above individual national interests. At these are the

0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:02.560
<v Speaker 1>two themes. Uh. They did sort of at sometimes bump

0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:06.200
<v Speaker 1>into one another. But his mission again was to try

0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:09.920
<v Speaker 1>to thread the needle between someone who's been himself skeptical

0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:13.280
<v Speaker 1>in the past of the utility of organizations like the

0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:16.840
<v Speaker 1>United Nations, but in this case saying, UH on North

0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:19.280
<v Speaker 1>Korea and Iran, I really think the world needs to

0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:23.280
<v Speaker 1>come together around what the US wants an act. Well, Margaret,

0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:25.600
<v Speaker 1>you know, I'd love to just get your big picture

0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:29.320
<v Speaker 1>sense of how this speech was likely received. He did

0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:34.160
<v Speaker 1>stay on script. He did quote historical figures in American history.

0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:39.040
<v Speaker 1>What was your first impression. Uh. We were very much

0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:41.560
<v Speaker 1>interested in looking around the room, not just to hear

0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:43.640
<v Speaker 1>what he was saying, but to watch how people were reacting.

0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:45.960
<v Speaker 1>And I was interested in seeing the notes from my

0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:49.320
<v Speaker 1>colleagues who were on the floor and sending color. UM,

0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:53.360
<v Speaker 1>some key US allies holding onto every word. Be at

0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:57.600
<v Speaker 1>Israel or be a Japan Uh, some other countries. Ministers

0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:01.160
<v Speaker 1>at times go ahead checking their their phones for notes,

0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:04.520
<v Speaker 1>kind of in and out of the stream of of

0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:08.320
<v Speaker 1>what he was saying. Uh. And then of course, UM

0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:11.520
<v Speaker 1>looking for where a couple of the countries who were

0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:14.920
<v Speaker 1>targets of these discussions stood in the room earlier before

0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:17.840
<v Speaker 1>he began to speak. UM. North Korea as foreign minister

0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:20.199
<v Speaker 1>appeared to be in the room later on, UM not

0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:22.760
<v Speaker 1>as visible. So well, I think we're going to see

0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:24.920
<v Speaker 1>the reaction from the world begin to trickle in. There

0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:28.600
<v Speaker 1>were a couple of lines that were important for domestic audience,

0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:32.120
<v Speaker 1>such as the president's UH talk about Venezuela and how

0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:36.640
<v Speaker 1>the problem was in fact the ideology of socialism that

0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:39.960
<v Speaker 1>did not go over a real big and at the

0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:42.520
<v Speaker 1>same time, some of the discussions about the need to

0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:46.080
<v Speaker 1>act the score of Iran or the problems in North Korea.

0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:47.840
<v Speaker 1>There seemed to be a lot of agreement in the room,

0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:50.440
<v Speaker 1>so um different messages for different people. And this is

0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:53.159
<v Speaker 1>always true for US President. He's talking at once to

0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:56.280
<v Speaker 1>the world and to his own uh based not so

0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:59.160
<v Speaker 1>well all of the American voters, but particularly his base.

0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:02.080
<v Speaker 1>And again his base is the basi that is inherently

0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:04.840
<v Speaker 1>skeptical of the value and the utility of the United Nations.

0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:10.679
<v Speaker 1>Margaret Taller, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks

0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:13.320
<v Speaker 1>for listening to the Bloomberg P and L podcast. You

0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:17.119
<v Speaker 1>can subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud,

0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:20.720
<v Speaker 1>or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm pim Fox. I'm

0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:24.280
<v Speaker 1>on Twitter at pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at Lisa

0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:27.240
<v Speaker 1>Abramo wits one. Before the podcast, you can always catch

0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:29.080
<v Speaker 1>us worldwide on Bloomberg Radio.