WEBVTT - How to Be Okay When Life Feels Overwhelming with Liz Fosslien 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.640 Sometimes it's not even that we have thoughts that are helpful. 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:06.120 It's like the thought becomes I just want to run 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:08.440 away from us, What can I do? What can I do? 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:10.800 And what our brain generates is like what I can 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:13.039 do next? Often isn't actually what we need to do 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:14.560 to address that underlying emotion. 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:26.360 Welcome to the one you feed throughout time. Great thinkers 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:29.760 have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have. Quotes 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:33.040 like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:36.639 think ring true. And yet for many of us, our 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:40.760 thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:45.000 self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:47.640 have instead of what we do. We think things that 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:50.800 hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:55.440 just about thinking. Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent, 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:58.760 and creative effort to make a life worth living. This 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:01.760 podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:04.920 the right direction, how they feed their good wolf. 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:10.560 Have you ever had a day where you just feel off? 0:01:11.040 --> 0:01:15.120 Not sad exactly, not mad either, but just a swirling 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:18.560 mess of feelings that won't sit still. I certainly have 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:23.040 and as it turns out, that is completely normal. In fact, 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:26.640 my guest today, Liz Fossiline, has spent years studying why 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:29.440 we feel the way we feel and why we often 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:32.720 believe we shouldn't feel that way. She's here to bust 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:36.200 some of the biggest myths about emotions, like why anger 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:39.840 isn't actually the enemy, where envy can be useful, and 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:43.280 why it's not just you feeling like everyone else has 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:45.920 it figured out. By the end of this episode, you'll 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:48.520 walk away with a whole new way to think about 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:52.160 your emotions, one that just might make your life a 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:55.280 little lighter, a little easier, and a little more human. 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:59.480 I'm Eric Zimmer and this is the one you feed. Hi, Liz, 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:00.360 Welcome to the show. 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:02.720 Thanks so much for having me. Really excited to be 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:03.559 here again. 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:07.000 Yes, excited to have you back again. And you have 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:10.360 a new book called Big Feelings, How to Be Okay 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:14.280 When Things Are Not Okay, which is a great topic 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:16.640 that I know listeners are going to love. But before 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:19.280 we get into the book, let's start, like we always do, 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:22.600 with a parable. There's a grandparent who's talking with their 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:25.040 grandchild and they say, in life, there are two wolves 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:27.600 inside of us. That are always at battle when it 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:30.400 is a good wolf which represents things like kindness and 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:33.600 bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf, 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:37.320 which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:39.480 the grandchild stops and thinks about it for a second, 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:41.720 looks up at their grandparents, says, well, which one wins? 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:45.080 The grandparents says, the one you feed. So I'd like 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:47.720 to start off by asking you what that parable means 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:49.960 to you in your life and in the work that 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:50.280 you do. 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:53.480 Yeah, well, I like that it acknowledges that we all 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:57.160 experience these emotions and have these within ourselves. I think 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:01.120 that's a common misconception when people maybe feed or feel 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:04.120 the sort of quote unquote negative emotions, that they're alone 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:06.440 in it. So I really like that. And then I 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:10.399 think the concept of feeding these emotions is really great too. 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:13.400 Something that I look at a lot in my work 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:16.760 is when you're experiencing something that's difficult, how do you 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:19.240 learn from it but then try to move through it 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:21.960 so that it gives you some useful information, but you 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:24.760 don't get tangled up in it and continue to feed 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:27.560 it and get dragged into it. So I really love 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:28.200 that parable. 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:31.239 You hit on something there that you talk about early 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:35.600 on in the book, which is really some myths about 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:40.400 what you're calling big feelings. You hit one of the 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:42.240 myths there, But can you talk about a couple of 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:42.680 the others. 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:44.560 Yes, I think the one you're mentioning a hit on 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:47.560 which I actually think is worth revisiting again is for 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:50.480 the book, we surveyed about fifteen hundred people all across 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:53.760 the world from all different backgrounds, and we ask them, 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:56.920 have you experienced any of these big feelings, which in 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:01.240 the book include things like anger, envy, and out perfectionism, 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:05.880 And basically to a person, everyone said yes. And so 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:07.920 I think one of the myths is again that when 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:11.280 we experience envy, that we should feel ashamed because we're 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:14.640 the only person feeling that, which is absolutely not true. 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:18.440 Another one is just around the intensity of those feelings, 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:22.560 that people often also think in comparison to others that 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:25.359 they're the only ones that are really getting bogged down 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:28.040 in I think depression is a good example of this. 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:31.039 When you feel despair, often you feel like everyone else 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:34.360 is thriving, and that's one of the ways in which 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:36.719 it warps your view of the world. And that's just 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:40.000 also not true. And then the last one that we 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:42.200 cover in the beginning of the book is just that 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:46.360 there are good quote unquote and bad feelings, so things 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:50.480 like envy. Anger is one too. We're often taught that 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:54.120 anger is associated with violence and is really harmful to 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:56.520 other people. And there are absolutely ways that you can 0:04:56.560 --> 0:04:59.240 express anger, like punching a wall or punching a person, 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:03.440 that are harmful. But at its core, anger can motivate us. 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:06.000 It's just a flag that there has been a violation, 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:09.240 so it can motivate us to advocate for ourselves, to 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:13.159 find a better situation for ourselves, to advocate for someone else. 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:16.840 So I wouldn't call that a bad emotion. You can 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:19.560 take bad actions based on it, but at its core, 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:22.720 an emotion is simply data and something that your brain 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:23.400 is producing. 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:27.680 Right, And we've got this podcast Parable that talks about 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:29.640 you know, good wolf and bad Wolf, which if we're 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:33.600 not careful, sets that myth up, which is that negative 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:37.080 emotions quote unquote negative emotions are bad. It's why I 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:39.120 love the take that you had, and it's one of 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:41.920 the reasons I love the Parable is it just says like, hey, 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:46.279 everybody has these you know, that's I think so so 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:49.280 important and you know, the thing that's really interesting And 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:51.480 I've been thinking about this a lot lately because we've 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:54.400 had a couple of guests recently that have talked about this. 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:58.640 One is a woman named Sarah Fay who just released 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:02.480 a book. She's diagnosed with six different things over her life, right, 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:05.000 and she sort of takes on the DSM, which is 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:08.040 the way that you know, mental health professionals diagnose people. 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:11.279 But I think it gets to the question of when 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:15.159 is something normal human emotion that we all go through, 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:19.000 and when is something what we would classify as mental illness, 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:21.680 and is that distinction even useful? Curious your thoughts. 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:25.800 I'm not a licensed psychiatrist to make these calls. 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:27.120 Yeah, of course, sort of. 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:31.599 My intuition on this is that when it becomes something 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:35.400 that you really can't move through, and when you're actively 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:39.440 harming yourself or other people, that's when it requires maybe 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:43.279 medication or it is more professional help. But that said, 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:45.599 I mean, I think medication and professional help can be 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:50.120 useful even if you're sort of depressed but functioning. So 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:54.400 I think it's it's always valuable to consider these things 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:57.360 on a spectrum. And so I think there's not like 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:00.320 a clear line. Sometimes it's just a judgment call that 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:02.479 you make yourself or the people around you make, or 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:06.279 your therapist makes of Okay, at this point there needs 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:08.960 to be some more serious intervention. But I think I 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:11.240 don't feel like the depths of some of these like 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:15.480 really more sort of quote unquote severe disorders better in 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:17.880 the DSM. But on any given day, I feel good 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:19.720 and then an hour later I feel bad, and you 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:23.400 you know, like, is that am I like vacillating too 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.560 much between emotion? I don't know. That's my baseline. So 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:29.960 these are all definitely like arbitrary lines that are still 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:31.640 useful to have in some cases. 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:34.480 Totally, yeah, And I do think every case is different, 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:37.080 and it's something I think a lot about as someone 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:41.080 who has what I would call maybe today i'll call 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:44.520 it depressive tendencies instead of saying, you know, I have depression, 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:48.000 I have a tendency in that direction. But at the 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:49.920 end of the day, I think that the tools that 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:53.200 are very useful for working with a lot of these 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:56.160 things are the same regardless. And that's really where you 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:58.440 guys spend a lot of time in the book. You 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.840 go through these big feelings and for each of them, 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:04.640 you talk about some myths and then you talk about 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:06.880 how to work with each of them. I love the 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:10.280 structure of the book. It's laid out very clearly, very helpfully, 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:13.120 and of course it has the drawings for which you 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:16.240 guys are are very well known. They're so great. They 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:18.720 really add so much that we just won't get in 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:23.240 a visual or we won't get in an audio only conversation, 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:26.239 but they add so much to the book. Let's jump 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:29.760 into some of the big feelings. Is there anyone that 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:33.600 you would like to hit one that feels like more 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:36.040 top of mind today for you than others. I've got 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:37.800 a couple I might choose, but I'm curious what you 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:38.480 might choose. 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:44.199 Yeah, I think I would choose uncertainty and perfectionism. Uncertainty, 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:47.720 you know, the last two years easy to say, they've 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:51.080 been very uncertain. Indeed, that's the one that I've struggled 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:52.679 with a lot, and I think a lot of people 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:53.280 have as well. 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:58.360 Okay, so what are some of the myths around uncertainty? 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:01.920 Two that resonated with me when I first started to 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:07.600 investigate them. The first was that certainty is attainable. It's 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:10.680 really comforting to think, Oh, I just wish I could 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:12.880 go back to when I was a child and things 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:16.600 were certain or pre pandemic, when life was more it 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:18.560 was just obvious what was going to happen next, and 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:21.280 I could plan for it. And the truth is, you 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:23.640 can never plan for the future because you can never 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:26.880 exactly predict what it is. And yes, there are times 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:30.160 when there's more alarming things that could happen in the future, 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:33.480 but generally, I think it's actually really useful to let 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:37.239 go of this myth that there is a perfect stability 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:39.920 that you can attain, because again, it helps you look 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:43.040 back at your life and say, I've always been operating 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:45.800 in some level of uncertainty, and for the most part, 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:48.480 I've been able to successfully navigate it. I'm still here, 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:51.360 So I think that can help you even in moments 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:54.800 that feel a little more unstable than others. And then 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:58.360 the second myth is that the anxiety we feel in 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:02.280 the face of uncertainty is is perfectly predictive of how 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:05.400 much risk we face. So I think it's so easy 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:07.760 to wake up in the morning with this like nebulous 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:11.480 pit of anxiety in your stomach and then lean into 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:14.560 that and say, oh, because I feel bad. That means 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:16.880 something bad is going to happen, and now I need 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:19.160 to be on full alert and in panic mode. 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:19.720 Yeah. 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:23.080 One funny thing that I don't know. Funny, but somehow 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:27.120 a lot of the research around uncertainty involves shocking people, 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:30.840 like giving them harmless but painful electric shocks. Like every 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:35.920 single study involved this, so uncertainty researchers loved electric shocks. 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:39.319 That seems actually fairly certain. But in one of these. 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:41.520 Okay, but in one of these studies, I'm not going 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:44.520 to sign up for any studies around uncertainty. I do not. 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:48.760 As somebody owned an old guitar amplifier in really lousy 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:51.120 houses in a long time ago, I used to get 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:52.440 shocked all the time. I hate it. 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:55.560 Yeah, yeah, so same. I'm not signing up for any 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:58.719 of those. But in one of these studies, they segmented 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:02.320 people randomly into two groups, and one group had a 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:05.920 ninety percent chance of getting shocked, so it was pretty 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:09.480 much guaranteed that they were going to get this painful experience. 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:12.679 The other group had a fifty percent chance, and the 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:15.679 group that had a fifty percent chance was three times 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:18.240 more stressed than the group that was certain they were 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:20.280 going to get shocked, which speaks to this like we 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:23.560 would rather know that something bad is going to happen 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:27.280 then not know what's going to happen. So we really 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:30.520 really hate uncertainty, which again speaks to like, you can 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:33.520 be super anxious, but that doesn't mean that you're guaranteed 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:35.720 a horrible thing that's about to happen. 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:37.720 There's a couple things in what you said there that 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:40.880 I think are important. That this idea that certainty ever 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:44.240 exists is certainly a myth, Like I think those of 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:46.480 us who study Buddhism and they sort of bang us 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:48.480 over the head with this sort of stuff, like you know, 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:52.200 it doesn't exist. There's a poet author out there, Mark Nepo, 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:54.800 who talks about something called the terrible knowledge, which is 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:57.720 that anything can happen to anyone at any time. And 0:11:58.160 --> 0:11:59.880 I think that's true. But I think there's a pow 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:05.480 positive too to recognizing uncertainty. Besides feeling less anxious about it. 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:08.160 The other positive is you don't take things for granted 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:12.400 as much if you actually realize the true uncertainty of things. 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:14.960 You recognize like, oh, you know, let me be grateful 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:17.880 for my dog who's laying here right next to me, 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:20.200 because I just don't know how much longer that will happen. 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:25.760 You know it can. Knowledge of uncertainty can also contribute 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:27.280 to our lives in positive ways. 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:31.040 Yeah. Absolutely. I have a friend who is, you know, 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:36.400 in his early thirties, extremely oppressive athlete, eats very healthy, 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:39.000 and he had some pain in his ankle last year 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:42.959 which then was diagnosed as bone cancer and needed an amputation, 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:45.200 and just like you know, had a horrendous year and 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:48.240 now luckily it seems to be in remission. But I 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:51.760 just remember that experience like it really felt like out 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:55.320 of nowhere. Yeah. I don't want to use his story 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:57.719 as like it made me feel really good, but it did. 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:00.240 It kind of crystallized like out of all of us, 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:02.640 he's the last person I would have predicted to have 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:05.559 such a health crisis at this age, and that it 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:09.439 just like put my own health in much more perspective. 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:11.360 And I agree with you, it made it was like, Wow, 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:14.400 things like this do happen, and it's horrifying. And so 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:17.200 even if I'm not having a great day, I'm still 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:20.560 grateful that generally things are okay. 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.720 Yeah, And the next question I'm going to ask, is 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:26.480 you know, as we look at working with emotions and 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:30.319 people who talk about emotions and theorize about emotions, some 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.679 people have a belief that like thoughts cause our emotions, 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:35.679 you know, there's a there's a you know, thoughts leading 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:39.400 to emotion. There's other people that think it's more complicated 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:42.640 than that. And when you were talking about anxiety, it 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:46.720 made me think of that sense of somehow some days 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:49.600 you just wake up and before you've even had a thought, 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:53.319 there's a mood, and then it's like every thought gets 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:56.320 filtered kind of through that mood. Is that sort of 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:58.480 what you were talking about with like anxiety, Like you 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:01.040 wake up and it's just, you know, you feel a 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:03.240 certain way, and now all of a sudden, your thoughts 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:05.080 all take on the color of that feeling. 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:09.920 Absolutely. Yes. So my view is that emotions are often 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:14.680 the product of like stimuli we're taking in, and it 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:17.240 can just be a result of our brain chemistry, which 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:19.600 is often the cause as well. And so I think 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.040 it depends on how you define a thought. But then 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:24.720 like the conscious thoughts we have get as you said, 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:28.120 filtered through this emotion that's coming up. So one example 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:31.800 of kind of how I consider emotion is way way 0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:34.520 back in the day, if a lion was charging towards you, 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:37.320 it was really important that you just feel fear right away, 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:39.720 that your brain was able to process like lion coming 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:42.960 fear right away, and that it wasn't like this very 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:45.640 conscious like, oh there's a lion, perhaps you know, and 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.000 you can I think you can debate forever if the 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:51.040 thought comes first what a thought is, but then everything 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:54.600 after that is filtered through this like physiological response you're 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:57.520 having in response to that emotion. And with anxiety, I 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.760 think it's the same, right, So if you doom scroll 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:04.200 late at night, go to bed, have bad dreams, or 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:07.400 there's just this subconscious thing running through you that the 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:10.000 future is really scary, there's all these horrible things happening 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:12.120 in the world. You wake up, you have this pit 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:14.920 you're not even really conscious of what thoughts are driving that. 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:18.680 But then that starts to create these thoughts that might 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:22.240 not necessarily be true for me personally, which as I've 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:24.600 talked to people, I think a lot of people experience this. 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:29.040 It also generates this frantic energy that leads you to 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:33.080 kind of exhaust yourself in an effort to get over 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:35.920 the anxiety. But because you're not sitting with it and 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:38.960 really trying to understand what might be driving it. It's 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:42.880 not productive. So to give more color to that, I 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:45.520 used to wake up, especially during the early days of 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:49.160 the pandemic, feel so anxious, and I would just vacuum 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:52.080 the floor, I would answer all my emails, I would 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:55.120 create all these new projects for myself. I would call someone. 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:58.080 I would just have this to do list and mercilessly 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:00.680 bang my way through it. And at the end of 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:03.560 the day I was just exhausted. But I had never 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:06.760 stopped to think, why am I anxious? Like what can 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:09.600 I actually do about that underlying emotion? So I just 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:13.000 didn't feel any better, actually felt way worse. And so 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:16.160 I think that's also sometimes it's not even that we 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:20.080 have thoughts that are helpful. It's like the thought becomes 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:22.280 I just want to run away from this. What can 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:24.600 I do? What can I do? And what our brain 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:26.920 generates is like what I can do next often isn't 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:29.560 actually what we need to do to address that underlying emotion. 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:33.640 So what are some tools for working with uncertainty? 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:36.880 Yeah, So the first is just to stop this cycle 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:40.400 of what psychologists call anxious fixing. So this is you 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:43.800 feel anxiety and it feels good to cross things off 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:46.200 a checklist, and so you do, and you do, and 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:49.680 you do, but you're not actually addressing that underlying need. 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:52.320 So it's really just in this case, when you feel 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:56.680 that overwhelming panic or anxiety, it's to stop and don't 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:59.440 rush into anything else. Just sit there and say, like, 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:03.200 I'm this moment, I'm very anxious, and then try to 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:07.520 think through, like what are my fears? So anxiety is 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:10.960 more nebulous, this sort of anxious feeling we have, versus 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:14.119 a fear, which is centered around something specific. And so 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:16.480 you might say, you know, over the past, you like, 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:19.920 I'm afraid I'll get COVID, I'm afraid someone I love 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:23.240 will get COVID, and those are terrifying things. But once 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:27.160 you actually map out the exact fears you have, it's 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:30.159 easier to start thinking what can I do to prevent that? 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:34.000 What steps can I take? Versus with anxiety, there's not 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:37.120 a clear next step, So I think the first piece 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:39.960 of advice would just be just stop and sit with it. 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:43.120 As uncomfortable as that might feel in the moment, it's 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:44.480 really important, yep. 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:47.360 And then you sort of let into another one there, 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:51.359 which is to try and go from vague anxiety into 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:54.919 more specific fears like what am I really afraid of? 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:57.520 And you know, the more specific oftentimes the better. 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:00.560 Yeah. I think one thing that came out a lot 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:03.000 as I was speaking with both experts and then just 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:08.119 people about this is some people mentioned they find it 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:11.439 useful to ask themselves what's the worst thing that could happen, 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:15.240 and then realizing that it's not so bad is comforting 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:17.919 to them. And so if that works for you, that's great. 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:20.600 I do want to share that tip. For me personally, 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:24.199 I can come up with some really doomsday so, you know, 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:26.600 like what's the worst thing that can happen? I am 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:30.400 very creative when it comes to this question. So if 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:34.000 that's you, I would not ask that, or I would 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:36.240 say what's the worst thing that could happen? And then 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:38.720 follow it up with what's the best thing that could happen? 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:42.960 And what is the likelihood that the worst thing happens? Yeah, 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:47.440 because often it's like, yeah, I dreamed up this nightmare scenario, 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:50.800 but it's extremely unlikely that that's actually what's going to 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:53.080 happen tomorrow, and so it's important to keep that in 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:53.760 mind as well. 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:58.320 Makes me laugh. My partner's mom has Alzheimer's that that 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:00.600 does not make me laugh, but within that, you know, 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:05.320 humor is helpful. And she would get these anxious fears, 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:08.119 and so I would try and reason with her, like 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:10.080 she was always afraid she was going to starve to death. 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:11.520 I'd be like, well, you're not, you know, and I'd 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:14.160 start going into why she's not going to starve to death. 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:16.320 Every time she would just come up with a more 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:20.879 and more fantastical story about how this was going to happen. 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:23.439 And I just after a while I realized, like this, 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:27.080 this is this is not working, like, you know, like 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:30.920 this is one where her ability to dream up scenarios 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:34.240 is well beyond my ability to you know, come up 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:37.160 with contingency plans. And I know some people who are 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:39.239 like that also like, you know, what's the worst thing 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:41.440 that can happen? They've got some doozies. 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:43.480 You know, Oh yeah, that's definitely me. 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:47.119 What's the worst thing that can happen for me? Is 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:50.240 generally a pretty good one, you know, because I'll go like, well, 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:52.600 you know, I guess we won't make any money. If 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:54.399 we don't make any money for a few months, you know, 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:57.439 I'll figure it out, which sort of leads me to 0:19:57.600 --> 0:20:01.480 another one of your for uncertainty, which is to sort 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:05.280 of reflect on moments that bring you confidence or reflect 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:09.359 on your ability to cope with what uncertainty brings. 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:11.879 Yeah, so this is I think one of the best 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:16.800 ways to navigate uncertainty. It's not about creating confidence for 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:19.080 yourself that something is going to happen at a future 0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:22.159 point in time, because, like we said, you can't really 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:25.919 do that. It's about building confidence that you will be 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:28.199 able to handle it. And so one great way to 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:30.720 do that is to look back and try to find 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:34.600 moments when you were overwhelmed or you didn't think you 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:37.399 could make it through an experience and you did so. 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:40.600 For example, I actually, for I don't know twenty years, 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:44.240 struggled with a really intense needle phobia and I went 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:47.000