Speaker 1: M hm, that's that is we're starting the episode. Miles
Speaker 1: is coughing up the marijuana he just smoked. Look life, stuff, man,
Speaker 1: it's fucking rough. We're recording this on a Monday, which
Speaker 1: we never do. Um, this is why this opening is
Speaker 1: why we don't record on Monday's. Sorry, I woke up
Speaker 1: at one, get out of bed at two, and then
Speaker 1: ran in my armor for an hour to wake my
Speaker 1: body up, and have done nothing productive except wonderful open
Speaker 1: up podcast. Thank you. I feel great since I got
Speaker 1: to run. But yeah, you have like a exerciser's glow.
Speaker 1: M Yeah, I don't know if that's that's that's exactly
Speaker 1: what you're supposed to say. You have a colonizer's glow
Speaker 1: about you. Oh, thank I could go for some colonizing Miles.
Speaker 1: Just like, I'm just gonna throw some names out there.
Speaker 1: El Salvador, that seems like a place that hasn't been colonized. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: spoil it. Well never mind, I'm like, I don't want
Speaker 1: to look it up and find out how we've talked
Speaker 1: about El Salvador in our in Our School of the
Speaker 1: America's episode All the Death Squads, We're back there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And then we're confused about MS thirteen. Huh, which started
Speaker 1: in the United States. It's all good. It's like, huh,
Speaker 1: it's so good ship. You know what else is good ship?
Speaker 1: Miles James Harvey, John Harvey Kellogg, which one was he? James,
Speaker 1: Jesus's James And they would say John Harvey Kitel. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't know where you were going there. To be honest,
Speaker 1: I wrote, I wrote a Harvey Kitel episode. But so
Speaker 1: he said, three hundred and thirty six pages was too
Speaker 1: long for a podcast script. Oh my god. So well, um,
Speaker 1: it was almost as long as the Will Wheat the script.
Speaker 1: She wonte won't let me read. That's not accurate. You
Speaker 1: can read that. I ever told you you can't. Sorry,
Speaker 1: legal told us I can't do the Will Wheaton script
Speaker 1: because there's no evidence that he was the son of
Speaker 1: Sam Killer, the internet's most very rich child. Uh, speaking
Speaker 1: of children, you know who was terrible with children? M
Speaker 1: John Harvey Killock. That America's great come doctor. So if
Speaker 1: you can we have the title of these episodes be
Speaker 1: America's Great Come Doctor. I mean, if it's what your
Speaker 1: heart desire, I've never stopped you. Magna come doctor, Magna doctor.
Speaker 1: Magna come loud though, No, Okay, so let's let's let's
Speaker 1: I actually scripted the start of this being let's start
Speaker 1: this episode by talking a whole lot about masturbation, and
Speaker 1: I guess we got an early start on that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're depraved, We're depraved. I didn't. Most people would agree
Speaker 1: that masturbating is among with some exceptions, is among the
Speaker 1: least problematic things that you can do as long as
Speaker 1: you're private about it. It's low carbon, it's available to
Speaker 1: people regardless of their income level, and it brings with
Speaker 1: it a whole bunch of health benefits. You know, people
Speaker 1: with penises who masturbate regularly have lower risks of variety
Speaker 1: of cancers. People with vaginas who masturbate regularly often find
Speaker 1: climaxing makes sex easier. Everyone who masturbates can benefit from
Speaker 1: pain relief, better sleep, lower levels of cortisol. It's pretty
Speaker 1: much a win win, is what I'm saying. I'm really
Speaker 1: glad you said privately because Louis c K J Yes,
Speaker 1: I was. I was thinking about Louis c. K when
Speaker 1: I wrote that paragraph and made certain to insert privately
Speaker 1: mm hmmm mmmm into a plant, into an innocent plant
Speaker 1: in front of innocent people. I'm gonna go ahead and say,
Speaker 1: if you're private about it, it's fine to come in plants. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's fine their plants. They don't know what's going on.
Speaker 1: They don't know what you're doing to them. It's like
Speaker 1: having sex when a cat's in the room. The cat
Speaker 1: doesn't understand, and if your worried scoop it out after
Speaker 1: that seems worse for some reason, do you really care?
Speaker 1: You care that much? It's like you're gonna bust on
Speaker 1: the soil. But then you're like, well, I don't want
Speaker 1: to fully. I think coming on a plant, it's like
Speaker 1: it's like having sex in front of a cat or
Speaker 1: a dog when they're in the room, and it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: they don't know what's going on. It's not like sucking
Speaker 1: in front of a monkey. If you've ever sucked in
Speaker 1: front of a monkey, the monkeys know what's happening. I
Speaker 1: don't think you're right about that one. I think I'm
Speaker 1: right about that. I don't like eyes on me, even
Speaker 1: animal or otherwise. Well, my old roommates dog used to
Speaker 1: hump along on the side. Oh yeah, I mean, but
Speaker 1: that that doesn't mean he knows what's happening. That just
Speaker 1: means he knows the motion, but just at a young
Speaker 1: age or shout out, shout out to the young legend rocks.
Speaker 1: He that's the dog's name. Wow. I once fucked in
Speaker 1: front of a couple of hundred monkeys and it was
Speaker 1: very clear that they were all well aware of what
Speaker 1: was happening. Seven. Yeah it was he Robert is now
Speaker 1: the all like Takata, like most interesting man in the
Speaker 1: world guy, rather as just yeah, it's you just like
Speaker 1: hitting a forty in an alleyway, like the same setup,
Speaker 1: and he's like in front of three monkeys. Have you
Speaker 1: ever even fucked? It might have been a few dozen,
Speaker 1: It's hard to tell. In the it was a lot
Speaker 1: of when he did that bit, just give a nice
Speaker 1: cheers and a cocktie brow. You know. It's just if
Speaker 1: there's an energy to it. I feel like if Steel
Speaker 1: Reserve wanted to advertise with me, I could sell a
Speaker 1: lot of Steel Reserve. That is yah extra gravity to eleven, Baby,
Speaker 1: where's the two eleven crew at Steel Reserve? When was
Speaker 1: the last time you vomited on another person? Steel Reserve
Speaker 1: to eleven? Also armed robbery? Who knows whatever? Still Reserve
Speaker 1: the perfect size for holding a six shooter in your
Speaker 1: other hands. The California penal code. Yea. Yeah, so this
Speaker 1: was longer than I intended the introduction to be. But
Speaker 1: the point of it is that you have to work
Speaker 1: pretty hard to make masturbation be unhealthy. Um and this
Speaker 1: is how people, I think in general feel now because
Speaker 1: of overwhelming, rigorous scientific data showing that it's pretty good
Speaker 1: for you. But in John Harvey Kellogg's day, scientific consensus
Speaker 1: was less about what the hard data said and more
Speaker 1: about whatever a bunch of weird white dudes with sexual
Speaker 1: hang ups figured was right. Kellogg was the latest and
Speaker 1: one of the biggest links in a chain that stretched
Speaker 1: back generations. Sylvester Graham and many of the other scientists
Speaker 1: of his day believe masturbation would lead inevitably to insanity
Speaker 1: if it continued long enough. Kellogg agreed and extended the
Speaker 1: dangers of coming further to a breathtaking list of maladies.
Speaker 1: Here's how scholar Verne Bullog captured the different ailments Dr
Speaker 1: Kelov Kellogg blamed on masturbation. Quote general disability, consumption like symptoms,
Speaker 1: premature and defective development, sudden changes in disposition, lassitude, sleeplessness,
Speaker 1: failure of mental capacity, fickleness, untrustworthiness, love of solitude, bashfulness,
Speaker 1: a natural boldness, mock piety, being easily frightened, confusion of ideas,
Speaker 1: aversion to girls and boys, but a decided liking of
Speaker 1: boys and girls. So I guess you like you like
Speaker 1: tom boys too much? If you masturbate, round shoulders, a
Speaker 1: week back and stiffness of joints, paralysis of the lower extremities,
Speaker 1: a natural gait, bad posture in bed, lack of breast development,
Speaker 1: and females capricious appetite, fondness for a natural or hurtful
Speaker 1: or irritation articles such as salt, pepper, spices, vinegar, mustard, clay, slate, pencils, plaster,
Speaker 1: and shot. You might like spices and chock if you
Speaker 1: come too much? Oh what is this list? How convenient?
Speaker 1: Disgusted it? Simple food, use of tobacco, unnatural paleness, acne
Speaker 1: or pimples, biting of fingernails, shifty eyes, moist cold hands,
Speaker 1: palpitation of the heart, hysteria and females clorosis or green sickness, anemia,
Speaker 1: epileptic fits, bedwedding, and use of obscene words and phrases.
Speaker 1: I will say that last one is accurate. People do
Speaker 1: do do cuss a lot when when masturbating. I mean,
Speaker 1: who knows who have thought a teenage with pimples might
Speaker 1: also be masturbating? Yeah, there's a real correlation. It's not there.
Speaker 1: And actually, Myles, you've keyed in on how all of
Speaker 1: this nonsense really got going in the first place. Because
Speaker 1: scientists of the day I didn't want to think that
Speaker 1: they weren't empiric, basing their conclusions on like empiric reality
Speaker 1: even though they weren't, and they found ways to convince
Speaker 1: themselves that observation backed up their fears about masturbation. Here's
Speaker 1: how it worked. Nineteenth century physicians would observe patients and
Speaker 1: mental institutions and make a note of what behaviors they
Speaker 1: engaged in. The idea was that whatever behavior unhealthy people
Speaker 1: engaged in must somehow cause that unhealthiness. And since the
Speaker 1: number one thing inmates and asylums did was masturbate, doctors
Speaker 1: conclusion that masturbation caused insanity. What the fun I mean,
Speaker 1: it's not funny, because no, it's century. Asylums were just
Speaker 1: unbelievable crimes against humanity. But God, good Lord, how simple,
Speaker 1: and we were calling these people fucking experts. These people
Speaker 1: we lock up in a room and never let out
Speaker 1: our masturbating. That must be why we locked them up,
Speaker 1: damn it. Huh. And then what have you that people
Speaker 1: that are always looking at them masturbating. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: think any of them ever analyzed themselves a little there,
Speaker 1: like apply that same logic path to anything else except
Speaker 1: for this one thing, like they did, but like they
Speaker 1: did with like kids have pimples and kids masturbate, it
Speaker 1: must be a cause, you know, but everything well then also,
Speaker 1: let's see this kid's also he walks funny, all right's
Speaker 1: a weird gate and his posture is bad because he's
Speaker 1: a teen who's like awkward in their own body or
Speaker 1: their awkward in their own body. And you know, it's
Speaker 1: just but I love late the lazy science of this time.
Speaker 1: It's amazing, just like it's so fucking ridiculous and unchallenged
Speaker 1: it is. And based on this unbelievably shoddy data, like
Speaker 1: huge chunks of the scientific community conclude that masturbation is
Speaker 1: not just bad for you, but a public health menace.
Speaker 1: And as a result, and since it was like a menace,
Speaker 1: doctors developed a variety of ways to treat it, because
Speaker 1: obviously this is a life threatening problem, so almost anything
Speaker 1: is justified. Ap Ointments were applied to the hands or
Speaker 1: genitals of the masturbating youth to make touching their genitals painful. Uh,
Speaker 1: stuff like icy hot. Basically do they put like at
Speaker 1: on people's genitals to make it hurt to touch. Some
Speaker 1: surgeons would actually put holes in a person's foreskin and
Speaker 1: insert a ring into it, not unlike a Prince Albert,
Speaker 1: but in such a way that if you were to
Speaker 1: if you were to get erect, it would stretch the
Speaker 1: foreskin painfully. Yeah, these are torture devices, like the club
Speaker 1: for you. Yeah, like the club for your foreskin. That
Speaker 1: is so fucked up and violent, it's horrible. What's the horrible? What?
Speaker 1: And did they have any like success stories that the
Speaker 1: success story, this one knocked off the masturbating and now
Speaker 1: they're completely Uh, they're they're they're they're much better now
Speaker 1: we've seen market improvement. I would imagine the way a
Speaker 1: lot of the success stories work is that, Right, You've
Speaker 1: got this kid who is has some sort of behavioral problem. Right,
Speaker 1: he's not paying attention in school, He's he's lashing out
Speaker 1: or something. He's doing something and you're blaming it on
Speaker 1: the masturbation. So you put a torture ring in his
Speaker 1: dick and he stops doing the thing that got him
Speaker 1: punished because you're torturing him, right, and he doesn't want
Speaker 1: to be tortured. It's not because he stopped masturbating, because
Speaker 1: masturbation wasn't causing the behavior, although he probably doesn't masturbate
Speaker 1: as much because you put a torturing in his dick.
Speaker 1: But through the same kind of logic they were using
Speaker 1: earlier in the mental hospitals, people conclude this helps. Wow,
Speaker 1: it's great closed loop. Um Castration was ordered in the
Speaker 1: most severe cases, but circumcision was much more common, and
Speaker 1: in fact, in the United States, circumcision first gained purchase
Speaker 1: among gentiles because it was believed, I mean accurately, that
Speaker 1: it would deadened sensation and thus reduce masturbation. So circumcision
Speaker 1: first became popular among like non Jewish people in the
Speaker 1: United States because it was like an anti masturbation treatment.
Speaker 1: How did that go? Nobody's ever come, myles. I don't
Speaker 1: know if you're aware of this, but it doesn't happen anymore.
Speaker 1: It's like I'm gonna get some more of that beef
Speaker 1: fat from earlier. Be right back, are you guys rendering
Speaker 1: that lard? So today? Uh, you know, as with today,
Speaker 1: like for every popular kind of health ailment boogeyman, even
Speaker 1: like COVID nineteen. You know, there's the stuff the doctors
Speaker 1: actually prescribed for it, and then there's a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of like mom cures. You know what I'm talking about
Speaker 1: when I say mom cures, Yeah, homespun remedies cooked up
Speaker 1: by parents. This is the case today with every kind
Speaker 1: of public health problem, and it was the case in
Speaker 1: the nineteen hundreds with masturbation, as this section from a
Speaker 1: study in the Journal of Technology and Culture lays out quote.
Speaker 1: Some parents, however, preferred to develop methods of their own,
Speaker 1: many of which were patented. American inventive genius quickly asserted
Speaker 1: itself through the development of a wide variety of gloves, guards,
Speaker 1: and other devices designed to make it more difficult for
Speaker 1: a child to masturbate. Gloves, for example, we're tied on
Speaker 1: child children's hands when as they went to bed, and
Speaker 1: parents were instructed to have their child sleep with the
Speaker 1: gloves on top of the blanket to make certain that
Speaker 1: there was not even gloved contact with the genital area.
Speaker 1: Gloves were also advised for mental patients and were widely
Speaker 1: used in mental institutions. Especially designed bed cradles were manufactured
Speaker 1: in order to lift the bedclothes from the genital area
Speaker 1: so that the child would not rub against the blankets.
Speaker 1: Girls were discouraged from spreading their legs, and special hobbles
Speaker 1: were designed to prevent them from doing so. They hobbled
Speaker 1: young girls legs to stop them from spreading them because
Speaker 1: it was thought that that would cause masturbation. Oh most ubiquitous, however,
Speaker 1: were the various harnesses designed to protect the genital area,
Speaker 1: usually patented under the to the term surgical devices. The
Speaker 1: female harnesses usually had perforated wire type meshing so that
Speaker 1: the girls could urinate through them and never touched themselves.
Speaker 1: All of these devices were fastened in the back, many
Speaker 1: with locks for which only the parents had the key.
Speaker 1: For males, there were similar devices, but most popular were
Speaker 1: sheaths with metal teeth that fitted over the penis. If
Speaker 1: the penis became erect, the teeth pierced the flesh and
Speaker 1: made any erection painful. Each new breakthrough in technology seemed
Speaker 1: to lead to a new kind of device. Appliances that
Speaker 1: gave electric shocks, for example, came on the market after
Speaker 1: the elopment of batteries. From patent office records, I have
Speaker 1: been able to identify some twenty devices intended to prevent masturbation.
Speaker 1: Twenty devices. Yeah, that's just the ones that got patented.
Speaker 1: How common would you say this was as a percentage?
Speaker 1: I have no idea it was. It was obviously this
Speaker 1: was a thing that wealthier parents did to wealthier kids
Speaker 1: more often than it was for the poor. Because it
Speaker 1: costs money to get these kind of medical treatments, that
Speaker 1: costs money to buy these kinds of devices. Um, but
Speaker 1: it was not uncommon, right, I think is clear it was.
Speaker 1: And and the idea that even if these devices weren't,
Speaker 1: the most method of treating with it, punishing some sort
Speaker 1: of punishment, often involving physical pain for masturbation, I would say,
Speaker 1: was the norm like when it was caught, because there
Speaker 1: was a very widespread idea that it was harmful. Right,
Speaker 1: So that's that makes so much sense I think in
Speaker 1: really trying to look at sort of the practical experience
Speaker 1: of how puritanical American society is and the averse to
Speaker 1: sexuality is you have it. You have generations of people
Speaker 1: who are you know, receiving punitive treatment, you know, punishment, uh,
Speaker 1: physical punishment for exploring their sexuality. And how that just
Speaker 1: sort of keeps manifesting and iterating. Yeah, it's pretty great, Um,
Speaker 1: pretty great. I mean it's wild because some of the
Speaker 1: devices described you can now still find on sale, but
Speaker 1: for a very different purpose. Um. But I suspect that
Speaker 1: probably has something to do with that. A lot of
Speaker 1: weird kinks are born during this period because of the
Speaker 1: medical genital torture industry. It's good stuff, Miles, it's good stuff.
Speaker 1: So thanks for having thanks for being on here. It's
Speaker 1: gonna get a lot worse. As a heads up, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is the best it's going to be. So just
Speaker 1: saying just savor, savor the moment where we're just talking
Speaker 1: about a torture cage for a penis. Um. So John
Speaker 1: Harvey Outlogue. The reason I go through all this is
Speaker 1: to point out that he was not the origin point
Speaker 1: for the war on masturbation, nor was he the only
Speaker 1: prominent voice urging abuse of treatments to discourage perfectly natural
Speaker 1: self pleasuring. He was, however, the most prominent physician in
Speaker 1: the country. By the early nineteen hundreds, the sanitarium was
Speaker 1: one of the most advanced and respected medical facilities in
Speaker 1: the nation, and since Dr Kellogg was an experiment er,
Speaker 1: he experimented with new treatments from masturbation as well. One
Speaker 1: of these treatments involved what he called skillful catheterization, using
Speaker 1: his considerable surgical abilities to insert a catheter up the
Speaker 1: aurethra of the offending masturbator. Next, he would electrocute the
Speaker 1: catheter going up into their aurethra, often while shooting water
Speaker 1: up into the urethra at the same time to make
Speaker 1: it more conductive. Yeah, I guess, or just because he
Speaker 1: fixed shooting water into every hole is the solution to problems.
Speaker 1: It might not have been a tort it that might
Speaker 1: just have been because like, well, if we add water,
Speaker 1: it will make it better, because water is the medicine
Speaker 1: that I prefer. Water and electricity the great these electrifying baths.
Speaker 1: So it's not a huge jump for the man Jesus.
Speaker 1: But yeah, shoves a catheter up there urethro and then
Speaker 1: shoots water and electricity up it again. It sounds like
Speaker 1: something the CIA would do, right, Like that's some Guantanamo shit.
Speaker 1: Is there any evidence, like we're the writings on the success,
Speaker 1: you know, because I'm sure they probably had to manufacture
Speaker 1: stories to make it. Like how could you just like okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: because okay, because I'm just like, you know, this is
Speaker 1: just so fuck up. A big part of this is
Speaker 1: it is not quite universally accepted that that this is
Speaker 1: bad health wise, and it was, but it was nearly
Speaker 1: universally accepted that it was morally wrong. So it wasn't
Speaker 1: just does it work? It was this needs to be punished, right,
Speaker 1: so this is what you do. It's just like parents
Speaker 1: beating their kids for thousands of years, nobody like there.
Speaker 1: You could find a lot of different people writing about
Speaker 1: how healthy it is to hit your kid. Nobody was
Speaker 1: doing studies on it. There wasn't empirical evidence about the
Speaker 1: value of slapping your get around, but they did it
Speaker 1: and they were certain that it helped. So I don't know, Yes,
Speaker 1: so this is just the are just sickest urges in this,
Speaker 1: you know, morally quote unquote justifiable? Way absolutely? Um so
Speaker 1: yeah that that was one of Kellogg's experimental therapies, and
Speaker 1: he would he wouldn't when he would have people brought
Speaker 1: into his facility for chronic masturbation. They would often be
Speaker 1: interned at the sanitarium for long periods of time, where
Speaker 1: a variety of therapies would be tried on them. We
Speaker 1: talked last episode about his specific painfully uncomfortable betting requirements
Speaker 1: to avoid stimulation. This was in part because Dr Kellogg
Speaker 1: viewed comfortable, healthy sleep, the kind where you you know,
Speaker 1: enter a rim cycle and dream as inherently dangerous. He
Speaker 1: declared in writing, in perfectly natural sleep, there are no dreams.
Speaker 1: Consciousness is entirely suspended, and for some reason, that is
Speaker 1: one of the most frightening things I've ever read. Just like,
Speaker 1: if you're dreaming, you're unhealthy. Someone's dreaming, someone's having weird dreams,
Speaker 1: aren't they. Dr John Kellogg is having some dreams that
Speaker 1: he does not like. Hey, if you're having dreams too,
Speaker 1: then you're just as Based on this logic, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: why you want to make sure they're sleeping. Arrangements are
Speaker 1: as uncomfortable as possible, so that nobody ever gets a
Speaker 1: good night's sleep. And did he practice what he preached?
Speaker 1: He did. He did practice what he to to the
Speaker 1: extent that we can verify as far as we know,
Speaker 1: he practiced what he preached. Interesting, John Harvey didn't just
Speaker 1: think dreams were unhealthy. He thought they were immoral. If
Speaker 1: a child or a woman with a masturbating problem claimed
Speaker 1: to be unable to control their dreams, he would call
Speaker 1: them a liar. Erotic dreams, in Kellogg's understanding, were choices
Speaker 1: acts of deliberate defiance against morality and against the medical establishment.
Speaker 1: Dr Kellogg also urged his patients to avoid consumption of
Speaker 1: quote sexually aggressive food. And here's a quote from Kellogg.
Speaker 1: Tea and coffee have led thousands to perdition in this way, candy, spices, cinnamon, clothes, peppermints,
Speaker 1: and all strong essences powerfully excite the genital organ and
Speaker 1: lead to the same result. You know how when you're
Speaker 1: drinking coffee and you just can't stop yourself, just just
Speaker 1: just pounding it like a beach at oh Maha before
Speaker 1: the ground assaulting did cinnamon might as well call it?
Speaker 1: Oh no, No, they didn't have spices in his day.
Speaker 1: Remember he broke up with his brother because his brother
Speaker 1: puts sugar in the corners. It was part of part
Speaker 1: of why they didn't get along. Yeah, I really appreciate
Speaker 1: that D day visual to thank you. Yes, it's a
Speaker 1: someone furiously masturbating, like on a hedgehog on the beach.
Speaker 1: Uh So, all right, here's the ads. We're back, we're back,
Speaker 1: and we're all having a good appropriate work day. Um,
Speaker 1: let's get back to talking about how this old man
Speaker 1: punished people for masturbating. So it will probably not surprise
Speaker 1: you to hear that. John Harvey Kellogg also forbade his
Speaker 1: patients from reading romantic literature, which in his mind, was
Speaker 1: as deadly as any hard drug. Quote. Storybooks, romances, love tales,
Speaker 1: and religious novels constitute the chief part of the reading
Speaker 1: matter which American young ladies greedily devour. We have known
Speaker 1: young ladies still in their teens who had read whole
Speaker 1: libraries of the most exciting novels. The taste for novel
Speaker 1: reading is like that for liquor or opium. Wait the whole.
Speaker 1: Guys like Kellogg, he wants a world where nobody eats spices,
Speaker 1: everything is planned, nobody sleeps a full night's sleep, and
Speaker 1: people are tortured for masturbating. And if a girl reads
Speaker 1: a romance novel, she might become aware of the fact
Speaker 1: that it's possible to enjoy life and that would be
Speaker 1: devastating to John Harvey Kellogg's worldview. What a fucking he
Speaker 1: is Just it's just so ridiculous when that earlier quote,
Speaker 1: when he's said it would be like an act of
Speaker 1: you know, you know, transgression against medical establishment, and he
Speaker 1: coupled that with morality, you know, just sort of this
Speaker 1: you know, Oh, they've been ordained from fucking by God
Speaker 1: to be the enforcers of his law. However they see
Speaker 1: it through their fucked up lens. He believes that struggle,
Speaker 1: you know, he gets into medicine through the Seventh day
Speaker 1: Adventist Church to him dedicating him to God. And now
Speaker 1: like it's just like, what a fucking that? Just what
Speaker 1: shows you though too, Like I'm sure you know how
Speaker 1: again that's something else that reverberates in medicine culturally. If
Speaker 1: this is if this is part of you know, like
Speaker 1: I'm I'm guessing this was the medical establishment. Like quite
Speaker 1: this is not universal. There are, as we talked about later,
Speaker 1: there's doctors a lot, there's medical like a not insignificant
Speaker 1: amount of medical professionals. And in this period, even who
Speaker 1: disagree with these conclusions but this is a fairly mainstream attitude. Yes, um,
Speaker 1: you know, John Harvey Kellogg is kind of like a
Speaker 1: Doctor Oz figure, but he is much more respected among
Speaker 1: mainstream doctors than Dr Oz was imparted because he is
Speaker 1: actually an excellent surgeon, right like he isn't. Yeah? Um,
Speaker 1: So I found a lot of the quotes that I've
Speaker 1: read so far, and a wonderful why write up by
Speaker 1: Jezebel It will be on the show. Notes that I
Speaker 1: really recommend reading. Um. That article summarizes Dr Kellogg's arguments
Speaker 1: against romance literature. Thus Lee. The problem with this sort
Speaker 1: of reading, explained to Kellogg, is that it takes a
Speaker 1: girl beyond the wholesome dreadfulness of her reality and transports
Speaker 1: her to a place that triggers passion. Passion so great
Speaker 1: that some girls quote discovered the fatal secret themselves. And
Speaker 1: the fatal secret is, of course, that it's it's possible
Speaker 1: for women to orgasm. Oh my god, you don't. You
Speaker 1: don't want to learning that? And this here that I
Speaker 1: should note that John Harvey Kellogg bragged his entire life
Speaker 1: about never consummating his marriage. He was married for like
Speaker 1: forty something years and would grag his entire life, that
Speaker 1: he and his wife never fucked. I'm so sorry to her,
Speaker 1: but I have a feeling he was probably bad at sex.
Speaker 1: I think she might have dodged a bullet there. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think so. She's like, yeah, what is how do
Speaker 1: you like? You're like, oh, you know, I'm not fine
Speaker 1: dry for fucking ages, man, baby, it's just oh my god,
Speaker 1: kidney stones. I don't even get my dick wet when
Speaker 1: I take a bath. A special copper submersible diving bell
Speaker 1: for my genitals, Oh god what ah? No, definitely not
Speaker 1: a genital diving bell. Yeah, a genital that's very fun.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what do you even say
Speaker 1: to that this is this is this is like like
Speaker 1: the fact that you would brag about being married for
Speaker 1: forty something years and never once fucking is give some
Speaker 1: And the fact that he's a man who thought that
Speaker 1: dreaming was unhealthy. Like both of those facts together like, oh,
Speaker 1: you were profoundly damaged, just an incredibly unhealthy person. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's unbelievable. And then really amazing this like his place
Speaker 1: in our culture and being so like just unwitting about
Speaker 1: the entire history about him. Aside from just vaguely being
Speaker 1: like, like like I said in the beginning of like, yeah, dude,
Speaker 1: I know he was like about masturbation. Yeah, no, no,
Speaker 1: it's it's real bad. It's about to get real worse.
Speaker 1: So John Harvey Kellogg, if questioned on any of the
Speaker 1: things that I've read, any of his like statements that
Speaker 1: I've read earlier, if questioned about any of this, would
Speaker 1: have defended himself by pointing out studies like the research
Speaker 1: into masturbating mental patients. He would have claimed accurately that
Speaker 1: the dangers of masturbation were widely agreed upon by experts
Speaker 1: of his day. But most of his specific claims about
Speaker 1: how children were impacted by what he called the secret
Speaker 1: vice were not tied to any specific research. He was convinced,
Speaker 1: for moral reasons that masturbation was a danger, eclipsing almost
Speaker 1: anything else. There was no research to show that electrocution,
Speaker 1: uncomfortable beds, and mental abuse actually stopped masturbation, but they
Speaker 1: punished the crime of self abuse, and John Harvey looked
Speaker 1: no further than that in justifying his treatments. And again
Speaker 1: you have to remember that this guy is like the
Speaker 1: pop doctor of his day. Parents listened to him. Here
Speaker 1: is a checklist he published of different behaviors that, in
Speaker 1: his mind, were signs that a parent's child was secretly
Speaker 1: engaged in deadly masturbation. Bed wedding quote. Masturbation causes the
Speaker 1: entire genital area to become lax and undisciplined changes in behavior.
Speaker 1: When a girl naturally joyous, happy, confiding, and amiable becomes
Speaker 1: an unaccountably gloomy, sad, fretful to satisfied and unconfiding. Be
Speaker 1: certain that masturbation is the cause for it will rarely
Speaker 1: be found to be anything other than solitary and indulgence.
Speaker 1: He listed insomnia as a justification for a suspicion of
Speaker 1: evil habits. Trouble in school might also indicate masturbation, as
Speaker 1: doctor as Dr Kellogg claimed, it damage children's memories and
Speaker 1: their ability to focus. Masturbation caused lying, bashfulness and an
Speaker 1: unwillingness to meet the eyes of adults. The eye is
Speaker 1: a wonderful tell tale of the secrets of the mind,
Speaker 1: he warned parents. Boldness a child acting out, in other words,
Speaker 1: was another sign of secret masturbation, as was fearfulness quote.
Speaker 1: Easily frightened children are abundant among young masturbaters. The victim's
Speaker 1: mind is constantly filled with vague forebodings of evil. He
Speaker 1: often looks behind him, looks into all the closets, peeps
Speaker 1: under the bed, and is constantly expressing fears of impending evil.
Speaker 1: Such movements are the result of a diseased imagination, and
Speaker 1: they may give right justly give rise to suspicion. Another sign,
Speaker 1: z Miles, it's like he's just listing everything a kid
Speaker 1: would possibly do. It's so fucked up and unfair. It
Speaker 1: gets worse. Another side was unusual vaginal discharge or a
Speaker 1: stretched vaginal cavity in little girls. Most worrisome, Kellogg wrote,
Speaker 1: was seductive behavior from young female children. A forward or
Speaker 1: loose manner and company with little boys is suspicious conduct,
Speaker 1: especially in one who has previously shown no disposition of
Speaker 1: this short sort. Girls addicted to this habit usually show
Speaker 1: an unnatural fondness for the society of little boys, and
Speaker 1: not infrequently are guilty of the most wanton conduct. Now
Speaker 1: you already noted, Miles, that a number of these symptoms
Speaker 1: of secret masturbation or just things kids do. But it
Speaker 1: gets worse than that, because, as that Jezebel write up notes,
Speaker 1: a lot of the things that Dr Kellog laid out
Speaker 1: as signs of masturbation are also today commonly recognized signs
Speaker 1: that a child may be sexually abused. Oh my God, yeah, buddy, yeah, Jesus,
Speaker 1: here's Jezebel quote the Delaware Department of Services for Children,
Speaker 1: Youth and their Families. Because it gives a very succinct
Speaker 1: list of similar behaviors, which also include changes and behavior
Speaker 1: inappropriate sexual behaviors, changes in school performance, and vaginal discharge.
Speaker 1: Modern medicine and psychology identifies these conditions as potential signs
Speaker 1: of a child being sexually abused. The two lists match
Speaker 1: almost word for word. Now, the thought that countless sex
Speaker 1: abuse victims were brought to Dr Kellogg. Child sex abuse
Speaker 1: victims were brought to Dr Kellogg and punished for masturbation
Speaker 1: is horrible enough, but it actually gets a lot worse
Speaker 1: than that. A particularly dire case study would be one
Speaker 1: that Kellogg himself wrote out in his nineteen o two
Speaker 1: edition of Ladies Guide to Health and Disease, a book
Speaker 1: he absolutely should not have written. He writes that a
Speaker 1: mother brought in her ten year old daughter to him
Speaker 1: for treatment. The young girl was a rape victim. Dr
Speaker 1: Kellogg identifies her as such. He knew that she was
Speaker 1: a victim of sexual abuse, and he wrote quote her
Speaker 1: first instruction, and by instruction he means her first Like
Speaker 1: she first learned about sex by this guy who abused her.
Speaker 1: Was received from a hoary headed fiend in human shape
Speaker 1: who had enticed her to a secluded place, and they're
Speaker 1: introduced her to all the nastiness which is depraved and
Speaker 1: sensual nature could devise. Now, so far, that's not horrible.
Speaker 1: He's putting the blame on the abuser, which is good.
Speaker 1: But the problem is that Kellogg didn't see this little
Speaker 1: girl's chief problem as the fact that she'd been abused
Speaker 1: and assaulted and robbed of agency over her own body.
Speaker 1: In his eyes, the problem was that she had been
Speaker 1: introduced to sexual sin and that was going to make
Speaker 1: her masturbate. Oh my god. So again he gets brought
Speaker 1: a ten year old sex abuse victim and his first
Speaker 1: concern is she might start masturbating. Yeah, yeah, and like
Speaker 1: this just horrible feedback loop. That's impossible, Like all roads
Speaker 1: just lead to this no matter what, and there's no
Speaker 1: empathy or anything. And it's the thing where even if
Speaker 1: this person is a victim in being a victim leads
Speaker 1: them to this what he believes as an evil behavior.
Speaker 1: The solution is always some form of abuse to stop
Speaker 1: the masturbation. He wrote, quote, a little girl, naturally bright,
Speaker 1: an unusually attractive and intelligent, had become the victim of
Speaker 1: this soul and body destroying habit, which had brought on
Speaker 1: a serious nervous disease and threatened to destroy both body
Speaker 1: and mind before she had reached the age of ten years.
Speaker 1: So you see what he's doing here. He's identifying that
Speaker 1: she's traumatized, but he's blaming it not on the assault,
Speaker 1: but on the fact that she's masturbating. That he assumes
Speaker 1: she's masturbating as a result of the assault. As a physician,
Speaker 1: Dr Kellogg saw his job as not helping this girl
Speaker 1: with the trauma from her assault, or even treating the
Speaker 1: physical symptoms of her rape. His job was to stop
Speaker 1: her from masturbating. In cases like these, he had a
Speaker 1: standard procedure. Step one was that the parents needed to
Speaker 1: catch their child in the act. The best way to
Speaker 1: do that, he believed, was to wait until a few
Speaker 1: minutes after the child had gone to bed and sneak
Speaker 1: up on them, throw off their blankets and quote under
Speaker 1: some pretense forcibly examined the child's in to tal you
Speaker 1: for evidence of sexual excitement. So again he's brought in
Speaker 1: a rape victim and he tells your parents, what you
Speaker 1: need to do is assaulter in the night of the night. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: hard to define a worse thing to do in that situation. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and again no matter, Oh, it's presumed masturbating is the
Speaker 1: reason that they have are displaying trauma on top of
Speaker 1: or displaying their signs of their trauma on top of
Speaker 1: acknowledging but not understand. It's just so vile. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's really bad. And like to know that again whatever
Speaker 1: if this is the majority or whatever, that it's mainstream
Speaker 1: enough that there are generations of parents that ingested this,
Speaker 1: Like how like what the reverberations of that are and
Speaker 1: like down like in our culture and where like where
Speaker 1: we're at, like this is, yeah, this is thee of
Speaker 1: the seeds of that. Yeah, you you think about just
Speaker 1: how fucked up things, how how clearly fucked up both
Speaker 1: not just like the things revealed by me too, but
Speaker 1: sort of the the reaction to it and the lashing
Speaker 1: back against it, all of that um, this is a
Speaker 1: part of that, right, because a lot of the generations
Speaker 1: that created what are today is sort of like the
Speaker 1: conservative moral code, were raised in this stuff. Their grandparents
Speaker 1: were raised in this stuff, right, and they passed some
Speaker 1: of that down like this is a piece of that
Speaker 1: horrible puzzle. It's pretty bad. So back on this subject
Speaker 1: of inspecting kids to make sure they're not masturbating. For
Speaker 1: children with penises, this was as easy as looking for
Speaker 1: an erection. For children with vagina's, Kellogg wrote, quote, if
Speaker 1: the same course is pursued with girls under the same circumstances,
Speaker 1: the clearest will be found congested with the other genital organs,
Speaker 1: which will also be moist from increased secretion. So let's recap.
Speaker 1: His advice to the appearance of a teen year old
Speaker 1: rape victim was to throw off her covers by surprise
Speaker 1: and the dead of night and forcefully inspect her vagiant.
Speaker 1: His prescription for the each parents of sex abuse victims
Speaker 1: was to abuse their children. Further. It's yeah, like what again,
Speaker 1: what's the that? What are you saying at that? But
Speaker 1: again it's like they don't get care about evidence, because
Speaker 1: this really isn't about no improving their lives. The The
Speaker 1: real threat is it's telling that like he's obviously disgusted
Speaker 1: at the rapist, but his real horror is that the
Speaker 1: the young girl might take some sort of agency over
Speaker 1: her body. That's the actual thing that he's he's frightened
Speaker 1: of um or boys. He was he didn't like boys
Speaker 1: taking age. He didn't be believe people had He believed
Speaker 1: like I think it was more like like your body
Speaker 1: belongs to God, right, it's the seventh Day. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's not just the seven day eventus that believe this,
Speaker 1: But that's where he gets it. It's this idea that
Speaker 1: your body is not your own and it is my
Speaker 1: job as a physician to stop you from abusing it.
Speaker 1: It's pretty bad and what a morbid responsibility to think, Yes, yeah, um,
Speaker 1: pretty dark. Uh. And I should say that everything we've
Speaker 1: just outlined was the least invasive deterrent that John Harvey
Speaker 1: Kellogg suggested for the cases of masturbation. The goal here
Speaker 1: was to shame these kids by embarrassing them. They didn't
Speaker 1: like that was that was the actual goal, was that, like,
Speaker 1: if your parents catch you in the night, you will
Speaker 1: be ashamed and you won't do it anymore. He believed
Speaker 1: that what he one instance of what he called morally
Speaker 1: justified violation would deter most children, for those who soldiered
Speaker 1: on his prescription grew more severe. Quote. Bandaging the parts
Speaker 1: has been practiced with success. Tying the hands is also
Speaker 1: successful in some cases, but this will not always succeed,
Speaker 1: for they will often contrive to continue the habit in
Speaker 1: other ways, as by working the limbs or lying upon
Speaker 1: the abdomen. Covering the organs with the cage has been
Speaker 1: practiced with entire success. Like many doctors of his era,
Speaker 1: Kellogg prescribed circumcision to his most severe patients. He was
Speaker 1: adamant that in these cases painkillers should not be prescribed. Quote.
Speaker 1: The operations should be performed by a surgeon with without
Speaker 1: administering an anesthetic. Is the brief pain attending the the
Speaker 1: operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially
Speaker 1: if it be connected with the idea of punishment, as
Speaker 1: it may well be in some cases. The soreness, which
Speaker 1: continues for several weeks interrupts the practice, and if it
Speaker 1: had not previously become too firmly fixed, it may be
Speaker 1: forgotten and not resumed. Jesus So surgery with yeah genital
Speaker 1: surgery without uh, anesthesia is your punishment for masturbating? I don't.
Speaker 1: We are now in the territory of like I think
Speaker 1: some CIA guys would be like, whoa hold on someone,
Speaker 1: get the Geneva Convention really quick. We've never read it,
Speaker 1: but I'm pretty sure this isn't. This definitely is over
Speaker 1: the line. Huh yeah, damn yeah so And I'm just
Speaker 1: thinking again that will accepted that kind of treat it is,
Speaker 1: and like how the pattern of inflict as much pain
Speaker 1: as possible to solve the problem yep, still exists to
Speaker 1: this day. It shure does, mich you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it sure does. Surgery was also prescribed for little girls. Um,
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to prevaricate here. The surgical option
Speaker 1: was what we now call female genital mutilation. Um. They
Speaker 1: did not call it that then. They called it the
Speaker 1: severing of the clitterests and the labia minora. Kellogg himself
Speaker 1: wrote in one of his case studies, quote, a little
Speaker 1: girl about ten years of age was brought to us
Speaker 1: by her father, who came with his daughter with his
Speaker 1: daughter to have her broken of the vile habit of
Speaker 1: self abuse into which she had fallen. Having read an
Speaker 1: early copy of this work, the father had speedily detected
Speaker 1: the habit and had adopted every measure which he could
Speaker 1: devise to break his child of the destructive vice which
Speaker 1: she had acquired. But in vain, it finally became necessary
Speaker 1: to resort to a surgical operation, by which it is
Speaker 1: hoped that she was permanently cured, as we have heard
Speaker 1: nothing to the contrary since and since, and as the
Speaker 1: remedy seemed to be effectual. So that is a father
Speaker 1: who is a fan of Kelly Kellogg's books, reads them
Speaker 1: and becomes obsessed with the idea that his daughter might
Speaker 1: be masturbating, become convinced that he's master, that she is masturbating,
Speaker 1: that he can't stop her um and after repeatedly assaulting
Speaker 1: her in the night, takes her to Dr Kellogg to
Speaker 1: have her genitals mutilated. That that's what happened in that
Speaker 1: case study, and that's a success. That is a success.
Speaker 1: And one of the good things that Jezebel article notes
Speaker 1: is that, as you can tell from that like in
Speaker 1: that right up, Dr Kellogg doesn't check in on the child.
Speaker 1: He says it is it is hoped she was permanently
Speaker 1: accured because we haven't heard anything to the contrary, since
Speaker 1: he doesn't Yeah, he doesn't check it in. He doesn't
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, look, look back in after four or
Speaker 1: five weeks after this surgery to see if it did anything. Like,
Speaker 1: he doesn't do a follow man, it is it's butchery. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's he's treating it like it's some kind of tumor.
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, yeah, I know, I just do that
Speaker 1: and then uh, don't worry about it, like that's that's problem.
Speaker 1: That'll that'll, that'll take care of it, Like you're not.
Speaker 1: It's not again, it's not like you're saying it's butchery.
Speaker 1: It's not actual. There's nothing. There's nothing restorative or helpful
Speaker 1: or healthy, no about sucking any of it. No. And
Speaker 1: it's because it's it's not really based in science, it's
Speaker 1: based in morality. He doesn't need to study how his
Speaker 1: patients do in the long term when he does stuff
Speaker 1: like this, because he knows he's right. It would be
Speaker 1: a waste of time to confirm it. Many doctors and
Speaker 1: Kellogg's era prescribed female genital mutilation as a treatment for masturbation,
Speaker 1: but Kellogg pioneered another treatment the application of carbolic acid
Speaker 1: to the sensitive parts of the sexual organs in order
Speaker 1: to burn them badly enough that all sensation was permanently deadened.
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, I know this. This is the This is
Speaker 1: in some ways maybe the worst one since Georgia Tan. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's bad. It's real fucking bad. Didn't we do Georgia
Speaker 1: Tan with Sophia? We did. We're just scarring left right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're gonna break them down. Yeah. Please associate my stoner
Speaker 1: reality podcast with this. Check this show out nothing being
Speaker 1: high and watching TV like profoundly abusive practices towards probably
Speaker 1: tens of thousands of children. Do you think that's that's
Speaker 1: the number? I mean, not just we're not just talking
Speaker 1: Kellogg here when I I really have no idea, but
Speaker 1: it was, it was. He was not the only doctor
Speaker 1: doing this like and will because this was you didn't
Speaker 1: want to talk about sex. Well, we will never know
Speaker 1: how many little girls in this period in the United
Speaker 1: States were mutilated in this way. Here's some ads. We're back,
Speaker 1: We're back. Um now. I have noted that Kellogg was
Speaker 1: not alone in using female genital mu relation is a
Speaker 1: treatment for masturbation here, but I should also note that
Speaker 1: a huge number of medical professionals railed against the practice,
Speaker 1: and that even in Kellogg's day, a significant amount of legitimate,
Speaker 1: documented scientific literature pointed to it being a wildly harmful procedure.
Speaker 1: This was not uncommon. It was also not universally agreed
Speaker 1: upon as healthy. In eighteen sixty eight, when John Harvey
Speaker 1: was just fifteen, a gynecologist named Charles Rest wrote a
Speaker 1: book called Lectures on the Diseases of Women. In it,
Speaker 1: he recalled the story of a fifty three year old
Speaker 1: woman who went to a surgeon for anal fissures. The surgeon,
Speaker 1: in this case, without getting her permission or asking at all,
Speaker 1: also removed her clitterist west In eighteen sixty eight, a
Speaker 1: male gynecologist condemned this behavior and wrote it will I
Speaker 1: imagine scarcely be contended that proceedings which we should reprobate
Speaker 1: if practiced on the one sex, changed their character when
Speaker 1: perpetrated on the other. And he's saying, if they'd cut
Speaker 1: a guy's dick off, you wouldn't be okay with this.
Speaker 1: Why is it okay when it's a clitterist. So there
Speaker 1: were people who recognized, there were doctors who recognized how
Speaker 1: horrible this was. It was not just the sign of
Speaker 1: the times, you know, I mean, like, so what was
Speaker 1: it take, Like did the general public need doctors like
Speaker 1: that to like even stimulate that kind of thinking for
Speaker 1: them to be like, yeah, hold on, maybe that is bad.
Speaker 1: Or do you think there were people who I'm sure
Speaker 1: I'm hearing that we're also like what the fun I'm
Speaker 1: sure there were I'm sure there were plenty of even
Speaker 1: like poor illiterate dudes who are like, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to let you cut my my my kids up, like
Speaker 1: fuck you, like stay the hell away. Yeah, I'm certain
Speaker 1: that happened. But obviously those people aren't writing books, and
Speaker 1: those people aren't giving lectures that make sure medical schools
Speaker 1: like John Harvey Kellogg. You know, John Harvey Kellogg kept
Speaker 1: up his devotion to clar erectoms his entire medical career,
Speaker 1: even after nineteen twelve, when mainstream medical textbooks began to
Speaker 1: condemn the practices not just completely ineffective but liable to
Speaker 1: cause the kind of mental health problems that James Harvey
Speaker 1: Kellogg blamed on master Nation. The fact that he was
Speaker 1: wrong about a great deal of very important things had
Speaker 1: no negative impact on John Harvey's sanitarium. This was, unfortunately
Speaker 1: due partly to the fact that he was right about
Speaker 1: an awful lot. Kellub was a major early proponent of exercise,
Speaker 1: which at the time was not widely recognized as beneficial.
Speaker 1: He was also way ahead of the curve on gut bacteria.
Speaker 1: Medical scientists are only really now starting to get a
Speaker 1: handle on how important gut bacteria are to your overall
Speaker 1: health health, but in lately, in the late eighteen hundreds
Speaker 1: and early nineteen hundreds, doctor John Harvey Kellogg understood, you
Speaker 1: know how big a deal it was. He partnered with
Speaker 1: Henrie to say, I'm probably some guy, some French fucking guy,
Speaker 1: a scientist at the Pasture Laboratory in France, and together
Speaker 1: they would study acidophilis, proving he understood how to do
Speaker 1: actual rigorous empirical science when he wanted to. Kellogg and
Speaker 1: his partner found that people whose guts had acidophilis suffered
Speaker 1: far fewer digestive diseases than people who did not, So
Speaker 1: he was capable of doing science. Yeah, in that very
Speaker 1: strict way. Yeah, all right, if all these people got it,
Speaker 1: then that's that means that you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: if they're all masturbating, then that's that's a sign. That's
Speaker 1: all I need. And then you know it's like the
Speaker 1: clock is broken. Clocks right. Kellogg became a huge advocate
Speaker 1: of yogurt's health benefits. He became rightfully convinced that the
Speaker 1: bacteria and yogurt protected against disease and believed those bacteria
Speaker 1: quote should be planted where they are most needed and
Speaker 1: may render the most effective service. This of course meant
Speaker 1: eating yogurt. But that isn't all at meant miles and
Speaker 1: you know the guyness was right, you know what he's this,
Speaker 1: He's gonna put it up there. But Kellogg had been
Speaker 1: convinced for years that auto intoxication, which we discussed last episode,
Speaker 1: was beyond behind all bowel disease. Once he realized that
Speaker 1: yogurt could populate the gut with good bacteria, he saw
Speaker 1: yogurt as a cure for auto intoxication and the best
Speaker 1: way of administering it would be via enema. He would
Speaker 1: use his enema machine for this whole court court of
Speaker 1: water first, and then gigantic quantities of yogurt up the
Speaker 1: ass second. Wow, I mean, at least he had evidence
Speaker 1: and that was. There's a lot more evidence that shooting
Speaker 1: yogurt up your ass is good than anything than anything
Speaker 1: he's ever done in his life. But that's where we're
Speaker 1: at with this guy and his patented machine. Obviously, because
Speaker 1: he did shooting stuff up his own ass machine which
Speaker 1: absolutely wasn't a kink, No, not at all. And this
Speaker 1: is custom, custom machinery or not, maybe just repurposed industrial machinery. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the machine that he designed to shoot yogurt up his
Speaker 1: own ass. Because he started every single day with a
Speaker 1: regular enema and a yogurt enema if you're ever expensive,
Speaker 1: I mean, he was really wasted. He runs the enema company,
Speaker 1: you know, I know, but I mean, like, how much
Speaker 1: yogurt are you going through a day there? I think
Speaker 1: less than the water, right, I mean like, yeah, gallons
Speaker 1: of yogurt. I mean maybe that's a flex if you're
Speaker 1: saying like that, I can shoot gallons literally do a
Speaker 1: half barrel. Yeah. As a rule, if you're ever wondering
Speaker 1: what doctor James John Rvey Kellogg was getting up to
Speaker 1: on a specific day in history, you would be safe
Speaker 1: in guessing shooting a variety of liquids up his own
Speaker 1: ass gut problems were at least as big a part
Speaker 1: of the sanitarium's treatments as abuse of sexual procedures. McGill
Speaker 1: University writes, quote, There were other options for those who
Speaker 1: didn't see the appeal of being pumped full of yogurt
Speaker 1: through their rear portals. The Sands mechano Therapy department had
Speaker 1: come up with the vibratory chair. This was a spring
Speaker 1: loaded device that shook the patient violently to stimulate intestinal peristalis.
Speaker 1: Once the toxins had been dislodged in this fashion, headaches
Speaker 1: and back aches would disappear, and according to Kellogg, the
Speaker 1: body would be filled with a healthy dose of oxygen
Speaker 1: and the Sand's coffers would be filled with a heavy
Speaker 1: dose of money. The Sand off also offered a variety
Speaker 1: of baths cold, hot, and electrified. If this did not
Speaker 1: shock the disease out of the unfortunate victim, then Dr
Speaker 1: Kellogg resorted to surgery, removing the offending part of the intestine.
Speaker 1: Kellogg carried out over twenty two thousands such operations during
Speaker 1: his career with a remarkably low complicate complication rate. Probably
Speaker 1: not necessary procedures, but at least he was good at it.
Speaker 1: Out of him. And what was that based off of
Speaker 1: people who were did a lot of off road bugging.
Speaker 1: We're really healthy because they were just I just had
Speaker 1: the rockiest set in town. I have no idea what
Speaker 1: that one was based on. They were just try and
Speaker 1: ship past a certain point, you know, like fuck it.
Speaker 1: John Harvey Kellogg's pioneering work played a major role in
Speaker 1: popularizing yogurt within the Western diet. He was also one
Speaker 1: of the first major advocates of soy milk, which he
Speaker 1: found was an even better way to propagate acidophilis than yogurt,
Speaker 1: and this brings us to Dr Kellogg's most famous and
Speaker 1: popular contribution to mankind kfist. John Harvey Kellogg had a brother,
Speaker 1: will Keith, who for a time worked with him at
Speaker 1: the sanitarium. Together, the two spent years developing foods meant
Speaker 1: to replace meat in the diet. Who created a number
Speaker 1: of different nut butters, experimented with soy, and looked for
Speaker 1: more ways to work whole grains into the American diet.
Speaker 1: Dr Kellogg was a big fan of zwyback, a twice
Speaker 1: baked biscuit that he felt felt helped people purge toxins,
Speaker 1: but Zwyback was so hard that at one point, an
Speaker 1: elderly patient at the sanitarium broke her dentures on it
Speaker 1: and threatened to sue him if he didn't pay for them.
Speaker 1: John Harvey didn't want to pay for more old people's dentures,
Speaker 1: so he and his brother Will set to work developing
Speaker 1: a way to pound grain and fiber into their patients
Speaker 1: without damaging their teeth. Through an incredibly boring process of
Speaker 1: trial and error, they arrived at corn flakes. Miguil writes,
Speaker 1: quote John Harvey was only interested in the health properties
Speaker 1: of the new products. Could these serve as an antidote
Speaker 1: to the passion stirred up by meat? But Will was
Speaker 1: a businessman and was bent on commercialization. Now I found
Speaker 1: a write up on encyclopedia dot com that actually gives
Speaker 1: find a good explanation of the fallout that resulted between
Speaker 1: John Harvey and his brother Will, who seems like the
Speaker 1: only sort of decent member of the family. Um, John
Speaker 1: Harvey absolutely comes out as the asshole in this relationship. Quote. Will,
Speaker 1: often known as W. K. Kellogg, never had a very
Speaker 1: good relationship with his older brother. According to Benjamin Klein,
Speaker 1: Hunnicutt and Kellogg six hour day. Famous for his energy
Speaker 1: and untiring work, John Harvey cultivated the image of a
Speaker 1: superman dictating the secretaries for eight hours at a stretch,
Speaker 1: performing operations through the night, conspicuously working at meals and
Speaker 1: on trains. John Harvey expected w K to live up
Speaker 1: to this myth and berated him for being lazy if
Speaker 1: he stole some time at home. When Post began making
Speaker 1: millions of dollars through aggressive advertising and free giveaways, w
Speaker 1: K wanted to develop a similar large scale advertising campaign.
Speaker 1: When his elder brother said no, w K began looking
Speaker 1: for ways to take control of the company. Because of
Speaker 1: his notorious frugality, John Harvey had convinced employees to accept
Speaker 1: lower pay along with stock in the serial business now
Speaker 1: known as the Kellogg Toasted corn Flake Company. W K
Speaker 1: secured financing from a wealthy St. Louis insurance broker and
Speaker 1: quietly began buying stock. By n six, he controlled the company.
Speaker 1: So they make a serial company together. But Will does
Speaker 1: not get along with his brothers is one thing. His
Speaker 1: brothers just shaming him constantly for like having a life
Speaker 1: outside of making cereal. You mean, oh I heard you
Speaker 1: use pepper. The other day sick fuck well, and Will
Speaker 1: is seeing like other serial companies have started develop at
Speaker 1: this point, and Will is seeing them advertise and seeing
Speaker 1: them add sugar, and he's like, we can make more
Speaker 1: money if we do this, And John Harvey Kellogg is like, no,
Speaker 1: it's about keeping people boring and yeah, So Will buys
Speaker 1: up the company in secret and takes it over from
Speaker 1: his brother. The break between John and Will came in
Speaker 1: part because Will wanted to add sugar to corn flakes
Speaker 1: so human beings would enjoy it. John Harvey thought sugar
Speaker 1: would make people come, and he violently opposed the idea.
Speaker 1: It is hard to overstate what a huge deal corn
Speaker 1: flakes were for society. I found an NPR interview with
Speaker 1: an author who wrote a book about the Kellogg brothers,
Speaker 1: a guy named Markel, and he does a good job
Speaker 1: of explaining just why this was revolutionary. Quote. Making breakfast
Speaker 1: was an ordeal. So even if you made porridge or mush,
Speaker 1: these whole grains took hours to melt down and then
Speaker 1: make into a mush or a soft form. And so
Speaker 1: these poor mothers were getting up very early, and they
Speaker 1: were probably taking care of their children all night. They
Speaker 1: had to start a wood burning fire, and so making
Speaker 1: breakfast was a great ordeal. But John Harvey Kellogg invented
Speaker 1: them for the involuted people who came to his Battle
Speaker 1: Creek Sanitarium. It was his little brother Will who realized,
Speaker 1: you know, there are a lot more people who are
Speaker 1: healthy and just want a convenient, tasty snack than those
Speaker 1: who are ill and eat it need an easily digestible breakfast.
Speaker 1: So he had added a little sugar a little salt
Speaker 1: to corn flakes, and it just took the world by
Speaker 1: storm in nineteen o six because you could simply pour
Speaker 1: breakfast out of a box. Even dad could make breakfast. Now,
Speaker 1: even dad's suspecting you of jerking off, yea, even dad
Speaker 1: who's tired from breaking into your room at night, who
Speaker 1: doesn't know how to break his own cycles of abuse
Speaker 1: and mistreatment. Ken corn flakes, Jesus. But yeah, that's so
Speaker 1: fucking wild, you know. It's it's something like that just
Speaker 1: creates all this cover for the name. Now, it's amazing.
Speaker 1: I don't know if anyone else we've ever covered with
Speaker 1: this incredible mix of outrageous harm done to society and
Speaker 1: also helped create things. Every single person listening to this
Speaker 1: enjoy it, Like, no matter who you are, he either
Speaker 1: created or helped popularize something that that you use regularly,
Speaker 1: that you ingest regularly. And that's like, you can't say
Speaker 1: that about Hitler, Like overall, right, it doesn't matter that
Speaker 1: it's the brand is just at a certain point, it's
Speaker 1: just a brand. And then you're back and think, I
Speaker 1: don't know, Kelly, genital mutilation, that's serials, cereal, you're not
Speaker 1: cutting up people because there's even like that movie The
Speaker 1: Road to Wellville, Yeah in the nineties, that's like such
Speaker 1: a like I remember, Yeah, they left a lot of
Speaker 1: part out that whole thing were really weird. They didn't
Speaker 1: include him abusing children. Yeah, yeah, it's just but yeah,
Speaker 1: but that's I think, Yeah, we just have this blind
Speaker 1: spot for certain ship at times, or maybe they did
Speaker 1: see him like we can't do that. It doesn't matter
Speaker 1: because nobody knows about podcasts yet where someone will take
Speaker 1: the time to research this and it's you know, it's
Speaker 1: fucking um. It wasn't easy to research this. It's not
Speaker 1: easy to read it to you. Nobody on the call
Speaker 1: was having a good time during the portion of the episode.
Speaker 1: I expect a decent number of listeners for perfectly reasonable
Speaker 1: reason will be like, I can't, I can't do this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't do it, Like whereas a funny
Speaker 1: video of a funny movie about cereal man has an
Speaker 1: issue with that and thus things get whitewashed and it
Speaker 1: has you know, modern consequences. Right now, there's a bunch
Speaker 1: of bills being debated and I think some of even
Speaker 1: being passed that will allow doctors to like act with
Speaker 1: their conscience and refused to treat LGBT people. And it's
Speaker 1: the same thing the idea that medicine and morality can
Speaker 1: be tied. They shouldn't be exactly like morality and medicine.
Speaker 1: It means doing your best to alleviate and treat the
Speaker 1: symptoms and and and illnesses of your patients, right like
Speaker 1: morality in medicine means nothing more than doing your best
Speaker 1: to ensure the health of the people who come to
Speaker 1: you for treatment. Your personal opinion shouldn't matter what being
Speaker 1: a doctor is. Well, but sometimes you're like, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: a monster that you need to use the occupation. Actually, yeah,
Speaker 1: i'm a monster. I'm just smart and I'm so cunning
Speaker 1: that I realized this is the profession. I need to
Speaker 1: get in proximity of people to do what I do.
Speaker 1: I think when that guy wrote people first, do no harm,
Speaker 1: what he meant was cut up little boys and girls, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: uh yeah. And again the reverberations just in our culture.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like everywhere, this same mentality of punishing
Speaker 1: for getting close to being liberated or understanding something or
Speaker 1: something that's counter to what has been biblically preached, um,
Speaker 1: and how that leads to just the absolute dehumanization of people.
Speaker 1: And like we're still it echoes in the same way
Speaker 1: as like you know, slavery does in certain ways of
Speaker 1: white supremacy, that if your medicine is was entrenched in
Speaker 1: religion like this on some level, that's not going to
Speaker 1: still be you know, part of the culture. We're having
Speaker 1: a reckoning with ye but I mean yogurt. Yeah, honestly,
Speaker 1: I need to know how much and if there was
Speaker 1: like if he was he was he cutting the yogurt.
Speaker 1: He's telling his pure yogurt, But was he cutting you
Speaker 1: know what? Was he pouring in some cocaine with the
Speaker 1: yogurt to wear steing? Hey doc, I heard you're stepping
Speaker 1: on my yogurt. With buttermell uh. So. Yeah. There were
Speaker 1: a number of other significant positive developments that Dr Kellogg
Speaker 1: and his sanitarium played a major role in. They were
Speaker 1: probably the first major business to make calorie counts and
Speaker 1: nutrition facts available for all of the meals they served.
Speaker 1: This would be decades before the practice was mandated in
Speaker 1: the United States. John Harvey was also a philanthropist. In
Speaker 1: three he decided to expand his operation into Chicago. The
Speaker 1: city police chief advised him to set up his new
Speaker 1: sanitarium and quote the dirtiest and wickedest place in the city,
Speaker 1: So he built it in a slum that was heavily
Speaker 1: populated by impoverished black people. Um. But the satellite facility
Speaker 1: included a free pharmacy and clinic, free baths, free laundry,
Speaker 1: and evening school for Chinese language students, and a visiting
Speaker 1: nurses service. His cafeteria offered a penny lunch service and
Speaker 1: fed an estimated five D six hundred people a day.
Speaker 1: So it wasn't all mutilation. You know, free clinics are
Speaker 1: good free, well, I don't know. His free clinic is
Speaker 1: a mixed bag. Free laundry is good, right, Yeah, I'm sure,
Speaker 1: I'm sure he had very evolved ideas on bi racial
Speaker 1: We're getting there. Yeah, I was gonna say, I can
Speaker 1: can you imagine what this fucking guys doing, being like
Speaker 1: I'm gonna service this immunity, Like, We're getting there, buddy.
Speaker 1: The success of the sanitarium swelled Dr Kellogg's ego and
Speaker 1: led to conflicts with his church. By some accounts, his
Speaker 1: break with Ellen White and the Seventh day Adventist faith
Speaker 1: started when he caught Sister White eating a piece of
Speaker 1: fried chicken. Um. The conflicts between the two of them
Speaker 1: went on for years and are more complex than I
Speaker 1: can easily summarize, but a lot of it has to
Speaker 1: do with Kellogg's occasional embrace of the scientific method. The
Speaker 1: bottom line is that he allowed his scientific beliefs to
Speaker 1: sometimes contradict the teachings of his prophet. He was accused
Speaker 1: of blasphemy and this fellowship in nineteen o seven. One
Speaker 1: of the beliefs that got Kellogg and trouble was a
Speaker 1: partial acceptance of evolutionary theory. Unfortunately for everyone, John Harvey's
Speaker 1: embrace of evolution was mainly a corollary to his embrace
Speaker 1: of eugenics. From a wonderful and comprehensive write up in
Speaker 1: Dr Kellogg's own local paper, The Battle Creek Inquirer. Quote
Speaker 1: kellogg support of eugenics was tepid to begin with, likely
Speaker 1: due to eugenicss ties to Darwinism, and his connection to
Speaker 1: the Seventh Day Adventist Church, which teaches a literal interpretation
Speaker 1: if the sixth day, sixth day creation story in Genesis.
Speaker 1: It wasn't until his break from the church in n
Speaker 1: seven that he began to truly embrace the ideas. Kellog
Speaker 1: combined his belief in eugenics his the improvement of human
Speaker 1: functioning by improvement of living conditions to come up with
Speaker 1: his own brand of eugenics he referred to as race betterment,
Speaker 1: the things he had advocated avoiding through his biologic living
Speaker 1: meat and alcohol redeemed race poisons. Race, that's some Nazi
Speaker 1: ship poisons, race betterment, race poisons, of course, that's what
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, like, it's so, honestly, is he
Speaker 1: one of the I'll let you go on, But I'm like,
Speaker 1: I wonder, deep down, we would have been fine if
Speaker 1: this motherfucker died, Like we would have been absolutely somebody
Speaker 1: was going to give us. Somebody was going to figure
Speaker 1: out serial Yeah, he figured out the acid ship with
Speaker 1: some other dude. Yeah, you know what I mean, I
Speaker 1: would have figured that out with that. You know what,
Speaker 1: this is such like you know it? Fuck, you know,
Speaker 1: you're not special. Getting into the fact that he basically
Speaker 1: created the cultural space for guys like Dr Fell and
Speaker 1: Doctor Oz to the celebrity doctors, he's a big bay
Speaker 1: that as well. You know, um, not the only race betterment,
Speaker 1: race betterment, race poisons races. Oh thank you, yeah baby,
Speaker 1: to save these people. Now, yeah, it's interesting that that
Speaker 1: last line I just read was basically word for word
Speaker 1: Nazi propaganda, because Dr Kellogg was not a Nazi. Now,
Speaker 1: the precise nature of his racism is fascinating to puzzle out.
Speaker 1: He is a We can talk a bit about the
Speaker 1: kind of racist that he is. He's an interesting kind
Speaker 1: of racist, say that. Yeah. Yeah. Dr Brian Wilson, who
Speaker 1: wrote the book that was a major source for Part one,
Speaker 1: seemed to have seems to have framed his bigotry as
Speaker 1: a natural evolution of his theories on biologic living. He
Speaker 1: saw selective breeding as the same thing as avoiding meat
Speaker 1: and masturbation. Quote. Overall, Kellogg was worried about the ultimate
Speaker 1: fate of the human race. Kellogg believed quote, if we
Speaker 1: continue on with our bad habits, we would eventually become
Speaker 1: extinct potentially. So there was this larger issue of the
Speaker 1: human race. But if you drill down a little bit
Speaker 1: more in his public statements, it's pretty clear that he
Speaker 1: was really concerned about the white race. John Harpey agreed
Speaker 1: with Teddy Roosevelt that white people were committing race suicide
Speaker 1: by allowing inferior races into the country. These races included
Speaker 1: Black and Asian people, but also people from the bad
Speaker 1: parts of Europe, like Italy. In the nineteen teens, Kellogg
Speaker 1: melded a warning against race mixing into his theory of
Speaker 1: biologic living. The Battle Creek Choirer notes that his beliefs
Speaker 1: on eugenics were often at odds with how he ran
Speaker 1: his business in personal life, which is part of why
Speaker 1: I think he's an interesting kind of racist. Quote. He
Speaker 1: rejected segregation of blacks at the at his sanitarium, where
Speaker 1: African American doctors and nurses were trained. He and his
Speaker 1: wife Ella Eaton fostered more than forty children, among them
Speaker 1: African Americans and children from Latin America. Kellogg took great
Speaker 1: care of sojourn or truth during her visits to the sanitarium,
Speaker 1: reportedly grafting some of his own skin to her leg
Speaker 1: to treat an ulcer, and he personally invited Booker T.
Speaker 1: Washington to visit as a guest in nineteen ten. So
Speaker 1: again that's not how do you ever see on that
Speaker 1: skin graph? I desinitely some pre internet you could be like,
Speaker 1: you know, I got your skin disjournal treat so I'm not.
Speaker 1: I literally put my skin on her. I took my
Speaker 1: skin and donated it. I mean, the point when I
Speaker 1: say he's not a Nazi isn't to like whitewash him
Speaker 1: at all, is to say that, like, you can be
Speaker 1: extremely racist, did not be a Nazi like Teddy Roosevelt.
Speaker 1: Not a Nazi monster, you know, just because it's not.
Speaker 1: It's because the hate is warped in this weird you
Speaker 1: know betterment exactly your bedroom. Oh no, I'm not saying
Speaker 1: I'm saying it's racist. That I'm saying you're flawed to
Speaker 1: begin with. And then what I'm saying is I'm hopeful
Speaker 1: for you we can make your race better, not as
Speaker 1: good at white people, but better as opposed to Nazis
Speaker 1: who say we should exterminate you. I mean, if you
Speaker 1: guys would stay off that race poison. And I think
Speaker 1: that's what that other facility is for. Even though he's
Speaker 1: running it, he's observing and collected data, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: that's for him. It's not really it says nothing charitable
Speaker 1: about it, Like there's clearly something that yes, he'll be like, well,
Speaker 1: it's fine outwardly that it's a help, but really I'm
Speaker 1: here to make observations that reinforce my racist worldview. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: and yeah, it's one of those things. Yes, he was
Speaker 1: a he was a monstrous bigot. Um. He wrote in
Speaker 1: nineteen o two, quote, the intellectual inferiority of the Negro
Speaker 1: mail to the European mail is universally acknowledged. This guy
Speaker 1: you knew book or T Washington it um, Yeah, you
Speaker 1: know what, you know what you know who book or T.
Speaker 1: Washington was smarter than the guy who thought sleep was poison. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean this is, but like it's also like the
Speaker 1: you know, dawn of like this insidious sort of you know,
Speaker 1: will later be like deracialized concerned troll racism, because it's
Speaker 1: still the same thing. Even though you're not espousing violence
Speaker 1: to begin with it. When you start from there, the
Speaker 1: premises violent, that's where it's just like, come like really though,
Speaker 1: the Race Betterment Foundation, come on, yeah, the Race Betterment Foundation. Yeah. Now,
Speaker 1: under Kellogg and under his Race Betterment Foundation, the Sanitarium
Speaker 1: would actually play host to three international eugenics conferences. At these,
Speaker 1: Kellogg advocated for eugenics registry nationwide that could be used
Speaker 1: to establish what he called racial thoroughbreads. He advised p
Speaker 1: well to consult medical records to determine their racial makeup
Speaker 1: before getting married. And like all eugenicists, he supported the
Speaker 1: sterilization of defectives, including criminals. Under his advisement, the Michigan
Speaker 1: State Legislature passed Public Act thirty four, which authorized the
Speaker 1: sterilization of quote defective persons. Under this law, at least
Speaker 1: thirty eight hundred people were involuntarily sterilized. When I guess
Speaker 1: what that law was repealed, Miles, probably not to like
Speaker 1: the last thirty years at at Night Teams seventy four.
Speaker 1: I guess we did better than you thought. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: because it's so I mean, and again that's another thing
Speaker 1: that look, how long the fucking takes like something that's
Speaker 1: so on its face disgusting that it's like, yeah, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: we should probably stop doing that. But then also thinking
Speaker 1: of how like even you know, women and especially women
Speaker 1: of color, the pain thresholds are not taken seriously by
Speaker 1: doctors to this day, And you think, oh wow, because
Speaker 1: we were fucking yipping with doctor corn Funk over here.
Speaker 1: Dr corn Funk, I mean I don't I'm not enough.
Speaker 1: I'm not an expert on Dr Kellogg, so I don't
Speaker 1: know if he ever, like we talked liter earlyer, he
Speaker 1: definitely thought that if you are giving someone like a
Speaker 1: surgery to stop masturbation, you shouldn't use pain medication because
Speaker 1: it's a healthy punishment. I wonder if maybe some of
Speaker 1: the belief that you don't need to give black people
Speaker 1: the same amount of pain killers was rooted in that
Speaker 1: idea too, that idea of like, well, if they're unhealthy,
Speaker 1: it's their fault and we should correct them by not
Speaker 1: I I have no idea, or it's just a habit
Speaker 1: that becomes like culture, a cultural norm within medicine, with
Speaker 1: no examination of what that actually means. It's like this,
Speaker 1: that's why it takes people so long to fucking like
Speaker 1: stop for a second and look at your patterns and
Speaker 1: be like, oh, ship, where is this from? What does
Speaker 1: this mean? But so many people are unwilling to do that. Yep.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's one of those things. And it gets
Speaker 1: so deeply because like black doctors under prescribe pain killers
Speaker 1: to black patients, just like black ops when they do
Speaker 1: these like they'll have these games were like you have
Speaker 1: to shoot someone who There's like a bunch of people
Speaker 1: flash on the screen. Some have guns, some don't. Black
Speaker 1: cops are more likely to shoot unarmed black people, like
Speaker 1: then they're unarmed white people. It's just like that's how
Speaker 1: it works because mental colonization and internalized white supremacy, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, that's what it does. It's it's
Speaker 1: that's how fucking pervasive it is. Yep, yep. The conferences
Speaker 1: that Dr Kellogg held were bizarre affairs. One featured booker T. Washington,
Speaker 1: who gave a speech on the Negro race to a
Speaker 1: white audience where he begged for equal treatment and argued
Speaker 1: for the common humanity of all men. At the same event,
Speaker 1: John Harvey Kellogg said this, if the human race is degenerating,
Speaker 1: then we should know it. We should let the people know,
Speaker 1: and we should see what ought to be done about it. Okay,
Speaker 1: this isn't climate change, motherfucker. Yeah no, I bet it
Speaker 1: wouldn't have believed in climate change the way he said
Speaker 1: the other thing before that. Yeah, he said he said
Speaker 1: that before Booker T. Washington got on. So book Or
Speaker 1: T goes on on his friend, Yeah, and gives a
Speaker 1: speech that seems to have mostly been about being like, hey,
Speaker 1: if you if you like, help black people out. We
Speaker 1: we can contribute to society. We're Americans too, like we
Speaker 1: want to we want to contribute to the country, but
Speaker 1: we need to like not be as as horribly abused
Speaker 1: by the system as we currently are, right because y'all
Speaker 1: aren't past slavery still, so that we're still getting this version. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that was the same thing where I mean, I
Speaker 1: guess he got booked by Kellogg. But Kellogg went on
Speaker 1: to talk about, like we have to talk about racial
Speaker 1: degeneracy and race poison and race mixing. It. It's weird.
Speaker 1: He's like I said, he's a weird kind of racist,
Speaker 1: but he's definitely a racist, yeah, because he's just all
Speaker 1: over the place. But he's just like because he's just
Speaker 1: he's a concerned roll racist, he's and he's Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: some ways I know that you mentioned that where he
Speaker 1: is a lot like the modern racist to be like, well, no,
Speaker 1: I have look at my black friend, like I'm advocating
Speaker 1: against white genocide, but I have I'm friends with Ali
Speaker 1: Alexander whoever, Like like, yeah, maybe maybe he was just
Speaker 1: the first, Like really, post Nazi white supremacists first got
Speaker 1: to figure it out, like no, you can't do all that,
Speaker 1: you can't look at that, you gotta be like no, well,
Speaker 1: all all I'm saying is maybe the white race is degenerating, okay,
Speaker 1: and maybe we need to look at that and then
Speaker 1: maybe then we can figure out what to do about that.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. I'm just saying what
Speaker 1: do I know? Well, fucking just demonic fuck. And I
Speaker 1: will say there were other eugenicists in this period Nazis
Speaker 1: who were saying similar things. So I'm not gonna say
Speaker 1: Kellogg was the first person, but he definitely not. Like
Speaker 1: now that the more I think about it, the more
Speaker 1: his racism feels extremely modern to me, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right. The First Race Betterment Conference, which is what
Speaker 1: these These events were called included a Better Babies contest,
Speaker 1: where five thousand children were inspected, measured, and judged based
Speaker 1: on their purported race characteristics. Wait, someone listening is going
Speaker 1: to have a great grandparent who won the Better Babies contest,
Speaker 1: And I'm excited to learn that, like a fucking Westminster
Speaker 1: Abbey dog show. Yeah, it seems like it like it's
Speaker 1: you know what it sounds kind of like is that?
Speaker 1: Um uh, I think you should leave the sketch where
Speaker 1: they have the baby off the Year award, but you're
Speaker 1: saying they're using but it was all kinds of different
Speaker 1: races of babies. Yeah, where they were like assess, yeah,
Speaker 1: how well they write so like a dog show. So
Speaker 1: there's breed of human being based on my physiognomy chart here, Uh,
Speaker 1: this is what this? He's got the perfect Nordic lips. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what the fuck? Yeah. The conference was a huge success,
Speaker 1: which convinced Kellog that he needed to host the next
Speaker 1: one on the West coast because eugenics didn't really catch
Speaker 1: on on the West coast the same way did on
Speaker 1: the East coast. Um, which I guess it's good for
Speaker 1: the West coast. Yeah, congratulations California. We just have Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a little bit different here, it's the same brand,
Speaker 1: different style. The conference was hosted in San Francisco, and
Speaker 1: it was part of a wider effort by Kellogg to
Speaker 1: inculcate his eugenic ideas throughout the nation. As time went on,
Speaker 1: he grew into more of a hardliner, increasingly committed to
Speaker 1: sterilization and segregation. Gradually he fell behind the times, do
Speaker 1: largely to a little thing cold World War two, coming
Speaker 1: face to face with Nazi ideology, which was inspired in
Speaker 1: large part by American eugenicists like Kellogg, led to a
Speaker 1: collapse in American support for eugenics. You see the Nazis
Speaker 1: doing Nazi ships saying the same thing American eugenicists are,
Speaker 1: And suddenly a lot of people are like, oh, you
Speaker 1: know what, Wait, maybe this is bad. Wait a second,
Speaker 1: hey man, this you this you It looks like this
Speaker 1: ends with people in ovens reconsider something. Maybe if we
Speaker 1: just look around, our race is deteriorating and maybe there's
Speaker 1: a problem we need a solution to. I'm just saying,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, seems like it inevitably leads there. Now.
Speaker 1: Harvey Kellogg was also a very old man by the
Speaker 1: upbreak of the war, but Nazism did not change his
Speaker 1: opinions on eugenics whatsoever. He grew only more convinced that
Speaker 1: Christian civilization was at risk and that the white races
Speaker 1: were on the edge of genocide. He wrote in nineteen
Speaker 1: forty two that he believed God quote, working through eugenics
Speaker 1: and the marvelous germ plasm, which is like sperm, may
Speaker 1: save the race and even improve it. So he had
Speaker 1: faith that eventually people would figure out how to save
Speaker 1: the white race. Kellop was in the middle of planning capitalism.
Speaker 1: He was in the middle of planning his fourth Race
Speaker 1: Betterment Conference set for June of nineteen forty two when
Speaker 1: Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. The conference was canceled, and so
Speaker 1: too was John Harvey Kellogg his own life. He died
Speaker 1: on December in Battle Creek, Michigan. He died, of course,
Speaker 1: a virgin, despite being married for more than forty years.
Speaker 1: John Harvey Kellogg brag that he had never actually consummated
Speaker 1: his marriage. So if I had to pick one purely
Speaker 1: good thing about his life, I'd say at least he
Speaker 1: didn't breed mm hmm, wow. True but fuck if he
Speaker 1: didn't completely funk up kids. Amazing, one of the worst
Speaker 1: people we've ever talked about. When is there, like, you know,
Speaker 1: some kind of reckoning do they just say, oh, it's
Speaker 1: it's actually named after his brother. You can go to
Speaker 1: any grocery store in the country and see his name
Speaker 1: all over the place. You know what I mean. I
Speaker 1: guess you can also think that his brother hated him,
Speaker 1: and he would have hated the fact that those are
Speaker 1: now filled with sugars, So I guess that's good. Like
Speaker 1: John Harvey Kellogg would be horrifically disgusted by the fact
Speaker 1: that his legacy is now incredibly sugar like candy for
Speaker 1: children to eat in the morning and and mash surbation
Speaker 1: is through the roof. If masturbation is at an all
Speaker 1: time hot, if he thinks sleeping comfortably and eating spice,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna, you know what, tonight, I'm gonna eat the
Speaker 1: hottest fucking thing I can imagine masturbate on the most
Speaker 1: comfortable bed. Yeah, all of you at home, come and curry.
Speaker 1: In order to really really fully shame Dr James Hart,
Speaker 1: break his break his undead spirit eats spice, come hard.
Speaker 1: That's a T shirt. There you go. You're welcome, snice,
Speaker 1: come hard exactly, this big middle finger to him. Can
Speaker 1: we put come on a T shirt, Sophie, that's a
Speaker 1: loaded question? Yeah, loads, Uh, I feel like not. I
Speaker 1: think we do it, eat spice, come hard exactly and
Speaker 1: now and now because I think that's the next thing
Speaker 1: is come as an accepted thing on a shirt you are.
Speaker 1: That's how that's our little act rebellion against John Harvey Kellog.
Speaker 1: If I had a time machine, top of my list
Speaker 1: now would be to get uh like to archive a
Speaker 1: bunch of Red Tube videos along with information and how
Speaker 1: many hundreds of millions of views that it gets in
Speaker 1: a year and just present those both like, hey, John,
Speaker 1: in the future, more people than exist on the world
Speaker 1: right now are masturbating on just this one website. Buddy,
Speaker 1: you lose that war. And I would bring a fucking
Speaker 1: like a military foot locker filled with sex toys. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: just like, First of all, dude, this thing this is tenda.
Speaker 1: You ever heard of a tenda? All right? So this
Speaker 1: is from Japan and you might remember them from Pearl Harbor.
Speaker 1: So they got so this is some really sick technology.
Speaker 1: This is another one you can use your app. Hold on,
Speaker 1: I've even shown you the VR goggles yet, motherfucker. Like
Speaker 1: who knows. It's just this is a plastic butt that
Speaker 1: people make just to have sex with. You can buy it.
Speaker 1: You can. There's two different stores that sell them within
Speaker 1: walking distance of my house. You can. And if you
Speaker 1: want to make a mold of your genitals and have
Speaker 1: it replicated mid millions of times like a fucking you know,
Speaker 1: like the Guttenberg Press. You know what people did with
Speaker 1: the Bible in your day, they do it with genitals
Speaker 1: in the future. People are so horny John Harvey that
Speaker 1: when a boat got stuck in the Suez Canal, you
Speaker 1: you know the Suez Canal, it's do in your day,
Speaker 1: when a boat got stuck in it, people immediately turned
Speaker 1: the boat in the porn. Yeah, exactly, straight off the bat,
Speaker 1: John Harvey. That's how it works. Yeah. It's funny. When
Speaker 1: you search Kellogg's for the Wikipedia page, it's will Keith Kellogg,
Speaker 1: who which makes sense because he did steal the idea,
Speaker 1: But then they can't avoid in the first sentence that
Speaker 1: it is his brother. John Harvey. Kellogg became blah blah
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. So yeah, what a fucking yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like everything there's so many corporate like just like
Speaker 1: every fucking bank you know has had to deal in
Speaker 1: slave money, but everything bank at some point supported the
Speaker 1: nazis pretty Yeah, it's just what you know, like, this
Speaker 1: is where we're at that they can people like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, it's a want. Look, it's just a serial now.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean in some ways you could you
Speaker 1: could say that Kelloggs is his legacy is less fucked
Speaker 1: up than the banks because there was a split over,
Speaker 1: like like the reason the Kellogg's company became what it
Speaker 1: is is his brother fucking hated him, right, so that's good. Yeah, Yeah, anyway, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're what's what's JP Morgan? What's his? Uh? What's John
Speaker 1: Pierre Morgan's brother? Like, Oh, I don't know, but did
Speaker 1: you have a brother? Morgan Jr. Was a big part
Speaker 1: of the fascist attempt to overthrow the business blotto. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what a time, what a time, good times we're heading
Speaker 1: And again you have a bunch of people, in their
Speaker 1: own way, found their own attempt to try and steer
Speaker 1: the whatever the fucking course was of this country based
Speaker 1: on what these fucked up ideas they had, uh, yikes,
Speaker 1: a lesson to be learned. Perhaps, Yeah, you know, Miles,
Speaker 1: I guess if I had one last request for our listeners.
Speaker 1: I know a few of you were great artists. What
Speaker 1: we could really use is some just filthy John Harvey
Speaker 1: Kellogg themed pornography, just absolutely depraved. And by depraved, I
Speaker 1: mean him having missionary style sex with the woman he
Speaker 1: was married to for decades. It's him, it's him masturbating
Speaker 1: by candle light. Yeah, yeah, John Harvey Kellogg masturbating by
Speaker 1: candle light to I don't know, the crucible. What fucking bastards.
Speaker 1: You've done it again, Robert, you've done it again. How
Speaker 1: you doing, Miles? How you doing? Sophie? I hate my life.
Speaker 1: This was a rough one, right, this was a real
Speaker 1: bad one. Yeah, I mean, but you know this is again,
Speaker 1: this is These are the things. I think that's that's
Speaker 1: the benefit of this show, you know, like, yeah, if
Speaker 1: you have to really look back and know how bad
Speaker 1: ship was truly to be able to us work, give
Speaker 1: yourself some context, you know what I mean, And to
Speaker 1: know like how people move and operate in the social
Speaker 1: forces they used to justify and popularize their methods. Yep,
Speaker 1: and I I don't know. Some great news just on
Speaker 1: that front today for the first time, a gallop pole
Speaker 1: just reviewed us membership in a church, synagogue or mosque
Speaker 1: has fallen below Only scent of millennials belong to a church.
Speaker 1: And of course the drop in religious affiliation is directly
Speaker 1: correlated with the rise in support for same sex marriage,
Speaker 1: and one has to assume the rise and support for
Speaker 1: master baiting. Yeah exactly where generation come? Yeah? Generation come.
Speaker 1: That's a t shirt John Harvey Kellogg masturbating to the
Speaker 1: Crucible by candle light with generation come right on. That's
Speaker 1: busy or just some dog tax generation. Let's make it
Speaker 1: happen people. All right, Well, Miles, you got any plug
Speaker 1: doubles man, just check out the podcast Daily's like Geist
Speaker 1: and also look, if if you want something that isn't
Speaker 1: tied to maybe the news and politics, check out the
Speaker 1: other podcast four twenty Day Fiance. We're talking about ninety
Speaker 1: day Fiance. But you know, like hi, so yeah, just
Speaker 1: chill with Sophia Alexandra, you know, one of the one
Speaker 1: of your your fan favorites. Yeah, we we love Sophia. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm glad that it was you and not her on yet.
Speaker 1: Another horrible child abuse episode, because that would have been
Speaker 1: a war crime. Yeah, alright, well we're done with the episode.
Speaker 1: Go stare blankly into the setting sun and try not
Speaker 1: to think about all of the horrible things that John
Speaker 1: Harvey Kellogg did in the name of medicine. Eat spice,
Speaker 1: come hard, Eat spice, come hard.