WEBVTT - Part Two: Kellogg: The Great American Cum Doctor 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:15.320 M hm, that's that is we're starting the episode. Miles 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:20.320 is coughing up the marijuana he just smoked. Look life, stuff, man, 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:23.640 it's fucking rough. We're recording this on a Monday, which 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:27.400 we never do. Um, this is why this opening is 0:00:27.440 --> 0:00:31.760 why we don't record on Monday's. Sorry, I woke up 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:33.920 at one, get out of bed at two, and then 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:37.640 ran in my armor for an hour to wake my 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:42.320 body up, and have done nothing productive except wonderful open 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:44.760 up podcast. Thank you. I feel great since I got 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:49.640 to run. But yeah, you have like a exerciser's glow. 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:54.120 M Yeah, I don't know if that's that's that's exactly 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:57.240 what you're supposed to say. You have a colonizer's glow 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:01.400 about you. Oh, thank I could go for some colonizing Miles. 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:04.920 Just like, I'm just gonna throw some names out there. 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:11.360 El Salvador, that seems like a place that hasn't been colonized. Well, yeah, 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:15.080 spoil it. Well never mind, I'm like, I don't want 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:18.240 to look it up and find out how we've talked 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:20.520 about El Salvador in our in Our School of the 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:23.680 America's episode All the Death Squads, We're back there. Yeah, 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:27.319 And then we're confused about MS thirteen. Huh, which started 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:31.000 in the United States. It's all good. It's like, huh, 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:33.760 it's so good ship. You know what else is good ship? 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:37.960 Miles James Harvey, John Harvey Kellogg, which one was he? James, 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:43.640 Jesus's James And they would say John Harvey Kitel. Yeah, 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:46.039 I didn't know where you were going there. To be honest, 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:51.360 I wrote, I wrote a Harvey Kitel episode. But so 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:54.320 he said, three hundred and thirty six pages was too 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:58.080 long for a podcast script. Oh my god. So well, um, 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:00.440 it was almost as long as the Will Wheat the script. 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:04.160 She wonte won't let me read. That's not accurate. You 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:09.680 can read that. I ever told you you can't. Sorry, 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:12.400 legal told us I can't do the Will Wheaton script 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:14.840 because there's no evidence that he was the son of 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:23.359 Sam Killer, the internet's most very rich child. Uh, speaking 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:26.679 of children, you know who was terrible with children? M 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:32.640 John Harvey Killock. That America's great come doctor. So if 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:34.360 you can we have the title of these episodes be 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:38.200 America's Great Come Doctor. I mean, if it's what your 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:44.800 heart desire, I've never stopped you. Magna come doctor, Magna doctor. 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:49.800 Magna come loud though, No, Okay, so let's let's let's 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:53.080 I actually scripted the start of this being let's start 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:55.640 this episode by talking a whole lot about masturbation, and 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:58.000 I guess we got an early start on that. Yeah, 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:01.440 we're depraved, We're depraved. I didn't. Most people would agree 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:05.800 that masturbating is among with some exceptions, is among the 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:07.960 least problematic things that you can do as long as 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:10.600 you're private about it. It's low carbon, it's available to 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:13.160 people regardless of their income level, and it brings with 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:15.320 it a whole bunch of health benefits. You know, people 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:18.240 with penises who masturbate regularly have lower risks of variety 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:21.720 of cancers. People with vaginas who masturbate regularly often find 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:25.120 climaxing makes sex easier. Everyone who masturbates can benefit from 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:28.680 pain relief, better sleep, lower levels of cortisol. It's pretty 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:30.800 much a win win, is what I'm saying. I'm really 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:34.320 glad you said privately because Louis c K J Yes, 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:37.480 I was. I was thinking about Louis c. K when 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:41.120 I wrote that paragraph and made certain to insert privately 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:46.120 mm hmmm mmmm into a plant, into an innocent plant 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:48.760 in front of innocent people. I'm gonna go ahead and say, 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:52.720 if you're private about it, it's fine to come in plants. Yeah, 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:55.160 it's fine their plants. They don't know what's going on. 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:56.760 They don't know what you're doing to them. It's like 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:58.720 having sex when a cat's in the room. The cat 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:01.880 doesn't understand, and if your worried scoop it out after 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:05.200 that seems worse for some reason, do you really care? 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:08.000 You care that much? It's like you're gonna bust on 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:10.880 the soil. But then you're like, well, I don't want 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:14.760 to fully. I think coming on a plant, it's like 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:16.600 it's like having sex in front of a cat or 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:18.680 a dog when they're in the room, and it's like, yeah, 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:20.880 they don't know what's going on. It's not like sucking 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:22.520 in front of a monkey. If you've ever sucked in 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:26.120 front of a monkey, the monkeys know what's happening. I 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:28.600 don't think you're right about that one. I think I'm 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:31.880 right about that. I don't like eyes on me, even 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:35.279 animal or otherwise. Well, my old roommates dog used to 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:38.480 hump along on the side. Oh yeah, I mean, but 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:40.640 that that doesn't mean he knows what's happening. That just 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:44.280 means he knows the motion, but just at a young 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:47.800 age or shout out, shout out to the young legend rocks. 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:53.200 He that's the dog's name. Wow. I once fucked in 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:55.120 front of a couple of hundred monkeys and it was 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:57.360 very clear that they were all well aware of what 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:09.200 was happening. Seven. Yeah it was he Robert is now 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:12.760 the all like Takata, like most interesting man in the 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:20.800 world guy, rather as just yeah, it's you just like 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:23.240 hitting a forty in an alleyway, like the same setup, 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:27.640 and he's like in front of three monkeys. Have you 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:29.960 ever even fucked? It might have been a few dozen, 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:32.200 It's hard to tell. In the it was a lot 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:35.680 of when he did that bit, just give a nice 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:38.480 cheers and a cocktie brow. You know. It's just if 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:40.760 there's an energy to it. I feel like if Steel 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:43.240 Reserve wanted to advertise with me, I could sell a 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:48.960 lot of Steel Reserve. That is yah extra gravity to eleven, Baby, 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:51.919 where's the two eleven crew at Steel Reserve? When was 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:55.280 the last time you vomited on another person? Steel Reserve 0:05:55.400 --> 0:06:00.720 to eleven? Also armed robbery? Who knows whatever? Still Reserve 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:03.080 the perfect size for holding a six shooter in your 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:14.240 other hands. The California penal code. Yea. Yeah, so this 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:17.200 was longer than I intended the introduction to be. But 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:19.760 the point of it is that you have to work 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:23.880 pretty hard to make masturbation be unhealthy. Um and this 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:26.599 is how people, I think in general feel now because 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:29.919 of overwhelming, rigorous scientific data showing that it's pretty good 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:33.919 for you. But in John Harvey Kellogg's day, scientific consensus 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:36.400 was less about what the hard data said and more 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:39.000 about whatever a bunch of weird white dudes with sexual 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:42.359 hang ups figured was right. Kellogg was the latest and 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:44.360 one of the biggest links in a chain that stretched 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:47.600 back generations. Sylvester Graham and many of the other scientists 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.880 of his day believe masturbation would lead inevitably to insanity 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:54.320 if it continued long enough. Kellogg agreed and extended the 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:57.479 dangers of coming further to a breathtaking list of maladies. 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:02.159 Here's how scholar Verne Bullog captured the different ailments Dr 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:08.359 Kelov Kellogg blamed on masturbation. Quote general disability, consumption like symptoms, 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:13.560 premature and defective development, sudden changes in disposition, lassitude, sleeplessness, 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:18.880 failure of mental capacity, fickleness, untrustworthiness, love of solitude, bashfulness, 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:24.080 a natural boldness, mock piety, being easily frightened, confusion of ideas, 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:27.160 aversion to girls and boys, but a decided liking of 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:29.960 boys and girls. So I guess you like you like 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:35.160 tom boys too much? If you masturbate, round shoulders, a 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:39.080 week back and stiffness of joints, paralysis of the lower extremities, 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:43.560 a natural gait, bad posture in bed, lack of breast development, 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:47.480 and females capricious appetite, fondness for a natural or hurtful 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:53.720 or irritation articles such as salt, pepper, spices, vinegar, mustard, clay, slate, pencils, plaster, 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:56.480 and shot. You might like spices and chock if you 0:07:56.600 --> 0:08:02.840 come too much? Oh what is this list? How convenient? 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:10.600 Disgusted it? Simple food, use of tobacco, unnatural paleness, acne 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:14.880 or pimples, biting of fingernails, shifty eyes, moist cold hands, 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:20.840 palpitation of the heart, hysteria and females clorosis or green sickness, anemia, 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:25.000 epileptic fits, bedwedding, and use of obscene words and phrases. 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:29.480 I will say that last one is accurate. People do 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:32.360 do do cuss a lot when when masturbating. I mean, 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:34.920 who knows who have thought a teenage with pimples might 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:40.320 also be masturbating? Yeah, there's a real correlation. It's not there. 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:44.000 And actually, Myles, you've keyed in on how all of 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:47.440 this nonsense really got going in the first place. Because 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:50.760 scientists of the day I didn't want to think that 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:54.280 they weren't empiric, basing their conclusions on like empiric reality 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:56.640 even though they weren't, and they found ways to convince 0:08:56.720 --> 0:09:01.679 themselves that observation backed up their fears about masturbation. Here's 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:05.440 how it worked. Nineteenth century physicians would observe patients and 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:08.560 mental institutions and make a note of what behaviors they 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:12.280 engaged in. The idea was that whatever behavior unhealthy people 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:17.360 engaged in must somehow cause that unhealthiness. And since the 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:20.880 number one thing inmates and asylums did was masturbate, doctors 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:28.480 conclusion that masturbation caused insanity. What the fun I mean, 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:33.000 it's not funny, because no, it's century. Asylums were just 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:37.280 unbelievable crimes against humanity. But God, good Lord, how simple, 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:41.400 and we were calling these people fucking experts. These people 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:43.280 we lock up in a room and never let out 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:45.640 our masturbating. That must be why we locked them up, 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:49.480 damn it. Huh. And then what have you that people 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:53.760 that are always looking at them masturbating. Yeah, I don't 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:57.080 think any of them ever analyzed themselves a little there, 0:09:57.120 --> 0:10:01.320 like apply that same logic path to anything else except 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:05.000 for this one thing, like they did, but like they 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:07.719 did with like kids have pimples and kids masturbate, it 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:11.360 must be a cause, you know, but everything well then also, 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:13.760 let's see this kid's also he walks funny, all right's 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:16.440 a weird gate and his posture is bad because he's 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:19.079 a teen who's like awkward in their own body or 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:21.720 their awkward in their own body. And you know, it's 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:25.199 just but I love late the lazy science of this time. 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:29.479 It's amazing, just like it's so fucking ridiculous and unchallenged 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:34.760 it is. And based on this unbelievably shoddy data, like 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:38.920 huge chunks of the scientific community conclude that masturbation is 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:41.640 not just bad for you, but a public health menace. 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:44.280 And as a result, and since it was like a menace, 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:46.920 doctors developed a variety of ways to treat it, because 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:50.000 obviously this is a life threatening problem, so almost anything 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:53.240 is justified. Ap Ointments were applied to the hands or 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:57.920 genitals of the masturbating youth to make touching their genitals painful. Uh, 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:00.120 stuff like icy hot. Basically do they put like at 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:02.640 on people's genitals to make it hurt to touch. Some 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:06.040 surgeons would actually put holes in a person's foreskin and 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:09.280 insert a ring into it, not unlike a Prince Albert, 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:10.720 but in such a way that if you were to 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:13.840 if you were to get erect, it would stretch the 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:19.080 foreskin painfully. Yeah, these are torture devices, like the club 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:23.520 for you. Yeah, like the club for your foreskin. That 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:28.640 is so fucked up and violent, it's horrible. What's the horrible? What? 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:32.920 And did they have any like success stories that the 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:36.840 success story, this one knocked off the masturbating and now 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:40.560 they're completely Uh, they're they're they're they're much better now 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:43.000 we've seen market improvement. I would imagine the way a 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:45.000 lot of the success stories work is that, Right, You've 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:48.120 got this kid who is has some sort of behavioral problem. Right, 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:50.760 he's not paying attention in school, He's he's lashing out 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:52.920 or something. He's doing something and you're blaming it on 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:56.480 the masturbation. So you put a torture ring in his 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:59.440 dick and he stops doing the thing that got him 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:02.760 punished because you're torturing him, right, and he doesn't want 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:06.000 to be tortured. It's not because he stopped masturbating, because 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:09.360 masturbation wasn't causing the behavior, although he probably doesn't masturbate 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:11.200 as much because you put a torturing in his dick. 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:13.840 But through the same kind of logic they were using 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:17.440 earlier in the mental hospitals, people conclude this helps. Wow, 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:24.080 it's great closed loop. Um Castration was ordered in the 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:27.720 most severe cases, but circumcision was much more common, and 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:30.920 in fact, in the United States, circumcision first gained purchase 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:34.360 among gentiles because it was believed, I mean accurately, that 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:38.559 it would deadened sensation and thus reduce masturbation. So circumcision 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:41.360 first became popular among like non Jewish people in the 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:45.240 United States because it was like an anti masturbation treatment. 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:50.920 How did that go? Nobody's ever come, myles. I don't 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:52.920 know if you're aware of this, but it doesn't happen anymore. 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:55.600 It's like I'm gonna get some more of that beef 0:12:55.640 --> 0:13:00.559 fat from earlier. Be right back, are you guys rendering 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:06.960 that lard? So today? Uh, you know, as with today, 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:09.920 like for every popular kind of health ailment boogeyman, even 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:12.880 like COVID nineteen. You know, there's the stuff the doctors 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:15.840 actually prescribed for it, and then there's a whole bunch 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:17.960 of like mom cures. You know what I'm talking about 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:20.480 when I say mom cures, Yeah, homespun remedies cooked up 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:22.880 by parents. This is the case today with every kind 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:24.720 of public health problem, and it was the case in 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:27.960 the nineteen hundreds with masturbation, as this section from a 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:31.480 study in the Journal of Technology and Culture lays out quote. 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:34.480 Some parents, however, preferred to develop methods of their own, 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:37.920 many of which were patented. American inventive genius quickly asserted 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:40.959 itself through the development of a wide variety of gloves, guards, 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:43.480 and other devices designed to make it more difficult for 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.640 a child to masturbate. Gloves, for example, we're tied on 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:49.400 child children's hands when as they went to bed, and 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:51.800 parents were instructed to have their child sleep with the 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:53.760 gloves on top of the blanket to make certain that 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:56.480 there was not even gloved contact with the genital area. 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:59.360 Gloves were also advised for mental patients and were widely 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:02.959 used in mental institutions. Especially designed bed cradles were manufactured 0:14:02.960 --> 0:14:05.439 in order to lift the bedclothes from the genital area 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:07.560 so that the child would not rub against the blankets. 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:11.040 Girls were discouraged from spreading their legs, and special hobbles 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:13.920 were designed to prevent them from doing so. They hobbled 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:17.520 young girls legs to stop them from spreading them because 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:24.560 it was thought that that would cause masturbation. Oh most ubiquitous, however, 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:27.280 were the various harnesses designed to protect the genital area, 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:31.080 usually patented under the to the term surgical devices. The 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:34.560 female harnesses usually had perforated wire type meshing so that 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:37.280 the girls could urinate through them and never touched themselves. 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:39.960 All of these devices were fastened in the back, many 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:42.520 with locks for which only the parents had the key. 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:45.200 For males, there were similar devices, but most popular were 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.000 sheaths with metal teeth that fitted over the penis. If 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:50.720 the penis became erect, the teeth pierced the flesh and 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:54.440 made any erection painful. Each new breakthrough in technology seemed 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:56.880 to lead to a new kind of device. Appliances that 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:59.760 gave electric shocks, for example, came on the market after 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:02.840 the elopment of batteries. From patent office records, I have 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:06.440 been able to identify some twenty devices intended to prevent masturbation. 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:10.960 Twenty devices. Yeah, that's just the ones that got patented. 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:15.080 How common would you say this was as a percentage? 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:19.880 I have no idea it was. It was obviously this 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:23.040 was a thing that wealthier parents did to wealthier kids 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:24.600 more often than it was for the poor. Because it 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:26.800 costs money to get these kind of medical treatments, that 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:30.400 costs money to buy these kinds of devices. Um, but 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:33.880 it was not uncommon, right, I think is clear it was. 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:36.800 And and the idea that even if these devices weren't, 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:39.960 the most method of treating with it, punishing some sort 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:44.680 of punishment, often involving physical pain for masturbation, I would say, 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:48.480 was the norm like when it was caught, because there 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:51.080 was a very widespread idea that it was harmful. Right, 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:53.120 So that's that makes so much sense I think in 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:56.600 really trying to look at sort of the practical experience 0:15:56.640 --> 0:16:00.320 of how puritanical American society is and the averse to 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:05.280 sexuality is you have it. You have generations of people 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:11.680 who are you know, receiving punitive treatment, you know, punishment, uh, 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:17.040 physical punishment for exploring their sexuality. And how that just 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:23.360 sort of keeps manifesting and iterating. Yeah, it's pretty great, Um, 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:25.760 pretty great. I mean it's wild because some of the 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:29.280 devices described you can now still find on sale, but 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:33.320 for a very different purpose. Um. But I suspect that 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:35.520 probably has something to do with that. A lot of 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:38.560 weird kinks are born during this period because of the 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:43.760 medical genital torture industry. It's good stuff, Miles, it's good stuff. 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:47.840 So thanks for having thanks for being on here. It's 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:51.240 gonna get a lot worse. As a heads up, yeah, 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:53.000 this is the best it's going to be. So just 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:55.480 saying just savor, savor the moment where we're just talking 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:59.560 about a torture cage for a penis. Um. So John 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:01.440 Harvey Outlogue. The reason I go through all this is 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:03.320 to point out that he was not the origin point 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:05.520 for the war on masturbation, nor was he the only 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:09.080 prominent voice urging abuse of treatments to discourage perfectly natural 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:12.280 self pleasuring. He was, however, the most prominent physician in 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:15.680 the country. By the early nineteen hundreds, the sanitarium was 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:18.320 one of the most advanced and respected medical facilities in 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:21.360 the nation, and since Dr Kellogg was an experiment er, 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:24.800 he experimented with new treatments from masturbation as well. One 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:29.560 of these treatments involved what he called skillful catheterization, using 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:32.639 his considerable surgical abilities to insert a catheter up the 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:36.480 aurethra of the offending masturbator. Next, he would electrocute the 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:40.600 catheter going up into their aurethra, often while shooting water 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:43.679 up into the urethra at the same time to make 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:47.240 it more conductive. Yeah, I guess, or just because he 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:50.200 fixed shooting water into every hole is the solution to problems. 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:52.440 It might not have been a tort it that might 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:54.280 just have been because like, well, if we add water, 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:56.440 it will make it better, because water is the medicine 0:17:56.440 --> 0:18:02.200 that I prefer. Water and electricity the great these electrifying baths. 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:05.040 So it's not a huge jump for the man Jesus. 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:08.800 But yeah, shoves a catheter up there urethro and then 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:11.760 shoots water and electricity up it again. It sounds like 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:16.000 something the CIA would do, right, Like that's some Guantanamo shit. 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:21.080 Is there any evidence, like we're the writings on the success, 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:23.760 you know, because I'm sure they probably had to manufacture 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:28.600 stories to make it. Like how could you just like okay, yeah, 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:31.199 because okay, because I'm just like, you know, this is 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:33.399 just so fuck up. A big part of this is 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:35.840 it is not quite universally accepted that that this is 0:18:35.880 --> 0:18:38.240 bad health wise, and it was, but it was nearly 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:41.440 universally accepted that it was morally wrong. So it wasn't 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:45.280 just does it work? It was this needs to be punished, right, 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:47.719 so this is what you do. It's just like parents 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:51.280 beating their kids for thousands of years, nobody like there. 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:53.360 You could find a lot of different people writing about 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:55.960 how healthy it is to hit your kid. Nobody was 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:58.840 doing studies on it. There wasn't empirical evidence about the 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:01.119 value of slapping your get around, but they did it 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:04.400 and they were certain that it helped. So I don't know, Yes, 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:09.760 so this is just the are just sickest urges in this, 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:14.840 you know, morally quote unquote justifiable? Way absolutely? Um so 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:18.000 yeah that that was one of Kellogg's experimental therapies, and 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:20.240 he would he wouldn't when he would have people brought 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:22.919 into his facility for chronic masturbation. They would often be 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:26.080 interned at the sanitarium for long periods of time, where 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:28.919 a variety of therapies would be tried on them. We 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:33.000 talked last episode about his specific painfully uncomfortable betting requirements 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:36.399 to avoid stimulation. This was in part because Dr Kellogg 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:39.560 viewed comfortable, healthy sleep, the kind where you you know, 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:43.119 enter a rim cycle and dream as inherently dangerous. He 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:46.960 declared in writing, in perfectly natural sleep, there are no dreams. 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:50.520 Consciousness is entirely suspended, and for some reason, that is 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:53.239 one of the most frightening things I've ever read. Just like, 0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:59.199 if you're dreaming, you're unhealthy. Someone's dreaming, someone's having weird dreams, 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:03.560 aren't they. Dr John Kellogg is having some dreams that 0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:06.240 he does not like. Hey, if you're having dreams too, 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:09.720 then you're just as Based on this logic, yeah, that's 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:11.879 why you want to make sure they're sleeping. Arrangements are 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:14.119 as uncomfortable as possible, so that nobody ever gets a 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:16.399 good night's sleep. And did he practice what he preached? 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:18.879 He did. He did practice what he to to the 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:21.639 extent that we can verify as far as we know, 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:25.399 he practiced what he preached. Interesting, John Harvey didn't just 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:28.480 think dreams were unhealthy. He thought they were immoral. If 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:31.280 a child or a woman with a masturbating problem claimed 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:33.920 to be unable to control their dreams, he would call 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:38.400 them a liar. Erotic dreams, in Kellogg's understanding, were choices 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:43.040 acts of deliberate defiance against morality and against the medical establishment. 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:46.560 Dr Kellogg also urged his patients to avoid consumption of 0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:50.280 quote sexually aggressive food. And here's a quote from Kellogg. 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:56.600 Tea and coffee have led thousands to perdition in this way, candy, spices, cinnamon, clothes, peppermints, 0:20:56.680 --> 0:21:00.359 and all strong essences powerfully excite the genital organ and 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:03.040 lead to the same result. You know how when you're 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:06.800 drinking coffee and you just can't stop yourself, just just 0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:10.200 just pounding it like a beach at oh Maha before 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:15.760 the ground assaulting did cinnamon might as well call it? 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:20.360 Oh no, No, they didn't have spices in his day. 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:22.480 Remember he broke up with his brother because his brother 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:26.400 puts sugar in the corners. It was part of part 0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:31.800 of why they didn't get along. Yeah, I really appreciate 0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:34.320 that D day visual to thank you. Yes, it's a 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:38.439 someone furiously masturbating, like on a hedgehog on the beach. 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:54.440 Uh So, all right, here's the ads. We're back, we're back, 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:58.159 and we're all having a good appropriate work day. Um, 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:00.560 let's get back to talking about how this old man 0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:04.240 punished people for masturbating. So it will probably not surprise 0:22:04.320 --> 0:22:06.760 you to hear that. John Harvey Kellogg also forbade his 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:09.840 patients from reading romantic literature, which in his mind, was 0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:15.280 as deadly as any hard drug. Quote. Storybooks, romances, love tales, 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:18.199 and religious novels constitute the chief part of the reading 0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:22.160 matter which American young ladies greedily devour. We have known 0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:24.280 young ladies still in their teens who had read whole 0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:27.399 libraries of the most exciting novels. The taste for novel 0:22:27.440 --> 0:22:33.200 reading is like that for liquor or opium. Wait the whole. 0:22:35.600 --> 0:22:39.080 Guys like Kellogg, he wants a world where nobody eats spices, 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:42.359 everything is planned, nobody sleeps a full night's sleep, and 0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:45.399 people are tortured for masturbating. And if a girl reads 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:48.200 a romance novel, she might become aware of the fact 0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:50.880 that it's possible to enjoy life and that would be 0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:56.720 devastating to John Harvey Kellogg's worldview. What a fucking he 0:22:56.920 --> 0:22:59.720 is Just it's just so ridiculous when that earlier quote, 0:22:59.760 --> 0:23:01.840 when he's said it would be like an act of 0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:06.159 you know, you know, transgression against medical establishment, and he 0:23:06.480 --> 0:23:09.400 coupled that with morality, you know, just sort of this 0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:13.159 you know, Oh, they've been ordained from fucking by God 0:23:13.280 --> 0:23:17.760 to be the enforcers of his law. However they see 0:23:17.800 --> 0:23:20.640 it through their fucked up lens. He believes that struggle, 0:23:20.720 --> 0:23:23.239 you know, he gets into medicine through the Seventh day 0:23:23.280 --> 0:23:28.280 Adventist Church to him dedicating him to God. And now 0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:32.320 like it's just like, what a fucking that? Just what 0:23:32.359 --> 0:23:34.560 shows you though too, Like I'm sure you know how 0:23:34.680 --> 0:23:39.080 again that's something else that reverberates in medicine culturally. If 0:23:39.119 --> 0:23:41.639 this is if this is part of you know, like 0:23:41.680 --> 0:23:44.680 I'm I'm guessing this was the medical establishment. Like quite 0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:47.520 this is not universal. There are, as we talked about later, 0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:50.520 there's doctors a lot, there's medical like a not insignificant 0:23:50.520 --> 0:23:52.960 amount of medical professionals. And in this period, even who 0:23:53.000 --> 0:24:00.440