1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:15,320
Speaker 1: M hm, that's that is we're starting the episode. Miles

2
00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:20,320
Speaker 1: is coughing up the marijuana he just smoked. Look life, stuff, man,

3
00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,640
Speaker 1: it's fucking rough. We're recording this on a Monday, which

4
00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:27,400
Speaker 1: we never do. Um, this is why this opening is

5
00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:31,760
Speaker 1: why we don't record on Monday's. Sorry, I woke up

6
00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:33,920
Speaker 1: at one, get out of bed at two, and then

7
00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,640
Speaker 1: ran in my armor for an hour to wake my

8
00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:42,320
Speaker 1: body up, and have done nothing productive except wonderful open

9
00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:44,760
Speaker 1: up podcast. Thank you. I feel great since I got

10
00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:49,640
Speaker 1: to run. But yeah, you have like a exerciser's glow.

11
00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:54,120
Speaker 1: M Yeah, I don't know if that's that's that's exactly

12
00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,240
Speaker 1: what you're supposed to say. You have a colonizer's glow

13
00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:01,400
Speaker 1: about you. Oh, thank I could go for some colonizing Miles.

14
00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,920
Speaker 1: Just like, I'm just gonna throw some names out there.

15
00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:11,360
Speaker 1: El Salvador, that seems like a place that hasn't been colonized. Well, yeah,

16
00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:15,080
Speaker 1: spoil it. Well never mind, I'm like, I don't want

17
00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:18,240
Speaker 1: to look it up and find out how we've talked

18
00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,520
Speaker 1: about El Salvador in our in Our School of the

19
00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:23,680
Speaker 1: America's episode All the Death Squads, We're back there. Yeah,

20
00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,319
Speaker 1: And then we're confused about MS thirteen. Huh, which started

21
00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:31,000
Speaker 1: in the United States. It's all good. It's like, huh,

22
00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,760
Speaker 1: it's so good ship. You know what else is good ship?

23
00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,960
Speaker 1: Miles James Harvey, John Harvey Kellogg, which one was he? James,

24
00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:43,640
Speaker 1: Jesus's James And they would say John Harvey Kitel. Yeah,

25
00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,039
Speaker 1: I didn't know where you were going there. To be honest,

26
00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,360
Speaker 1: I wrote, I wrote a Harvey Kitel episode. But so

27
00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,320
Speaker 1: he said, three hundred and thirty six pages was too

28
00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:58,080
Speaker 1: long for a podcast script. Oh my god. So well, um,

29
00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,440
Speaker 1: it was almost as long as the Will Wheat the script.

30
00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:04,160
Speaker 1: She wonte won't let me read. That's not accurate. You

31
00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:09,680
Speaker 1: can read that. I ever told you you can't. Sorry,

32
00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,400
Speaker 1: legal told us I can't do the Will Wheaton script

33
00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:14,840
Speaker 1: because there's no evidence that he was the son of

34
00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:23,359
Speaker 1: Sam Killer, the internet's most very rich child. Uh, speaking

35
00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,679
Speaker 1: of children, you know who was terrible with children? M

36
00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:32,640
Speaker 1: John Harvey Killock. That America's great come doctor. So if

37
00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:34,360
Speaker 1: you can we have the title of these episodes be

38
00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:38,200
Speaker 1: America's Great Come Doctor. I mean, if it's what your

39
00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:44,800
Speaker 1: heart desire, I've never stopped you. Magna come doctor, Magna doctor.

40
00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:49,800
Speaker 1: Magna come loud though, No, Okay, so let's let's let's

41
00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,080
Speaker 1: I actually scripted the start of this being let's start

42
00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,640
Speaker 1: this episode by talking a whole lot about masturbation, and

43
00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,000
Speaker 1: I guess we got an early start on that. Yeah,

44
00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,440
Speaker 1: we're depraved, We're depraved. I didn't. Most people would agree

45
00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:05,800
Speaker 1: that masturbating is among with some exceptions, is among the

46
00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:07,960
Speaker 1: least problematic things that you can do as long as

47
00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,600
Speaker 1: you're private about it. It's low carbon, it's available to

48
00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,160
Speaker 1: people regardless of their income level, and it brings with

49
00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,320
Speaker 1: it a whole bunch of health benefits. You know, people

50
00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,240
Speaker 1: with penises who masturbate regularly have lower risks of variety

51
00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,720
Speaker 1: of cancers. People with vaginas who masturbate regularly often find

52
00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,120
Speaker 1: climaxing makes sex easier. Everyone who masturbates can benefit from

53
00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,680
Speaker 1: pain relief, better sleep, lower levels of cortisol. It's pretty

54
00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:30,800
Speaker 1: much a win win, is what I'm saying. I'm really

55
00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,320
Speaker 1: glad you said privately because Louis c K J Yes,

56
00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,480
Speaker 1: I was. I was thinking about Louis c. K when

57
00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:41,120
Speaker 1: I wrote that paragraph and made certain to insert privately

58
00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:46,120
Speaker 1: mm hmmm mmmm into a plant, into an innocent plant

59
00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,760
Speaker 1: in front of innocent people. I'm gonna go ahead and say,

60
00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,720
Speaker 1: if you're private about it, it's fine to come in plants. Yeah,

61
00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,160
Speaker 1: it's fine their plants. They don't know what's going on.

62
00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:56,760
Speaker 1: They don't know what you're doing to them. It's like

63
00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:58,720
Speaker 1: having sex when a cat's in the room. The cat

64
00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,880
Speaker 1: doesn't understand, and if your worried scoop it out after

65
00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,200
Speaker 1: that seems worse for some reason, do you really care?

66
00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,000
Speaker 1: You care that much? It's like you're gonna bust on

67
00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,880
Speaker 1: the soil. But then you're like, well, I don't want

68
00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:14,760
Speaker 1: to fully. I think coming on a plant, it's like

69
00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:16,600
Speaker 1: it's like having sex in front of a cat or

70
00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:18,680
Speaker 1: a dog when they're in the room, and it's like, yeah,

71
00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:20,880
Speaker 1: they don't know what's going on. It's not like sucking

72
00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:22,520
Speaker 1: in front of a monkey. If you've ever sucked in

73
00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:26,120
Speaker 1: front of a monkey, the monkeys know what's happening. I

74
00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,600
Speaker 1: don't think you're right about that one. I think I'm

75
00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,880
Speaker 1: right about that. I don't like eyes on me, even

76
00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,279
Speaker 1: animal or otherwise. Well, my old roommates dog used to

77
00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,480
Speaker 1: hump along on the side. Oh yeah, I mean, but

78
00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,640
Speaker 1: that that doesn't mean he knows what's happening. That just

79
00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,280
Speaker 1: means he knows the motion, but just at a young

80
00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,800
Speaker 1: age or shout out, shout out to the young legend rocks.

81
00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:53,200
Speaker 1: He that's the dog's name. Wow. I once fucked in

82
00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,120
Speaker 1: front of a couple of hundred monkeys and it was

83
00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:57,360
Speaker 1: very clear that they were all well aware of what

84
00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:09,200
Speaker 1: was happening. Seven. Yeah it was he Robert is now

85
00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,760
Speaker 1: the all like Takata, like most interesting man in the

86
00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:20,800
Speaker 1: world guy, rather as just yeah, it's you just like

87
00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,240
Speaker 1: hitting a forty in an alleyway, like the same setup,

88
00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:27,640
Speaker 1: and he's like in front of three monkeys. Have you

89
00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:29,960
Speaker 1: ever even fucked? It might have been a few dozen,

90
00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,200
Speaker 1: It's hard to tell. In the it was a lot

91
00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,680
Speaker 1: of when he did that bit, just give a nice

92
00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,480
Speaker 1: cheers and a cocktie brow. You know. It's just if

93
00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:40,760
Speaker 1: there's an energy to it. I feel like if Steel

94
00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,240
Speaker 1: Reserve wanted to advertise with me, I could sell a

95
00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:48,960
Speaker 1: lot of Steel Reserve. That is yah extra gravity to eleven, Baby,

96
00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,919
Speaker 1: where's the two eleven crew at Steel Reserve? When was

97
00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,280
Speaker 1: the last time you vomited on another person? Steel Reserve

98
00:05:55,400 --> 00:06:00,720
Speaker 1: to eleven? Also armed robbery? Who knows whatever? Still Reserve

99
00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,080
Speaker 1: the perfect size for holding a six shooter in your

100
00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:14,240
Speaker 1: other hands. The California penal code. Yea. Yeah, so this

101
00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,200
Speaker 1: was longer than I intended the introduction to be. But

102
00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:19,760
Speaker 1: the point of it is that you have to work

103
00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,880
Speaker 1: pretty hard to make masturbation be unhealthy. Um and this

104
00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,599
Speaker 1: is how people, I think in general feel now because

105
00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,919
Speaker 1: of overwhelming, rigorous scientific data showing that it's pretty good

106
00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,919
Speaker 1: for you. But in John Harvey Kellogg's day, scientific consensus

107
00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,400
Speaker 1: was less about what the hard data said and more

108
00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,000
Speaker 1: about whatever a bunch of weird white dudes with sexual

109
00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,359
Speaker 1: hang ups figured was right. Kellogg was the latest and

110
00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:44,360
Speaker 1: one of the biggest links in a chain that stretched

111
00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,600
Speaker 1: back generations. Sylvester Graham and many of the other scientists

112
00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,880
Speaker 1: of his day believe masturbation would lead inevitably to insanity

113
00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,320
Speaker 1: if it continued long enough. Kellogg agreed and extended the

114
00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,479
Speaker 1: dangers of coming further to a breathtaking list of maladies.

115
00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:02,159
Speaker 1: Here's how scholar Verne Bullog captured the different ailments Dr

116
00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:08,359
Speaker 1: Kelov Kellogg blamed on masturbation. Quote general disability, consumption like symptoms,

117
00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:13,560
Speaker 1: premature and defective development, sudden changes in disposition, lassitude, sleeplessness,

118
00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:18,880
Speaker 1: failure of mental capacity, fickleness, untrustworthiness, love of solitude, bashfulness,

119
00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:24,080
Speaker 1: a natural boldness, mock piety, being easily frightened, confusion of ideas,

120
00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,160
Speaker 1: aversion to girls and boys, but a decided liking of

121
00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,960
Speaker 1: boys and girls. So I guess you like you like

122
00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:35,160
Speaker 1: tom boys too much? If you masturbate, round shoulders, a

123
00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:39,080
Speaker 1: week back and stiffness of joints, paralysis of the lower extremities,

124
00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:43,560
Speaker 1: a natural gait, bad posture in bed, lack of breast development,

125
00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:47,480
Speaker 1: and females capricious appetite, fondness for a natural or hurtful

126
00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:53,720
Speaker 1: or irritation articles such as salt, pepper, spices, vinegar, mustard, clay, slate, pencils, plaster,

127
00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,480
Speaker 1: and shot. You might like spices and chock if you

128
00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:02,840
Speaker 1: come too much? Oh what is this list? How convenient?

129
00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,600
Speaker 1: Disgusted it? Simple food, use of tobacco, unnatural paleness, acne

130
00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,880
Speaker 1: or pimples, biting of fingernails, shifty eyes, moist cold hands,

131
00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:20,840
Speaker 1: palpitation of the heart, hysteria and females clorosis or green sickness, anemia,

132
00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:25,000
Speaker 1: epileptic fits, bedwedding, and use of obscene words and phrases.

133
00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,480
Speaker 1: I will say that last one is accurate. People do

134
00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,360
Speaker 1: do do cuss a lot when when masturbating. I mean,

135
00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,920
Speaker 1: who knows who have thought a teenage with pimples might

136
00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:40,320
Speaker 1: also be masturbating? Yeah, there's a real correlation. It's not there.

137
00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,000
Speaker 1: And actually, Myles, you've keyed in on how all of

138
00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:47,440
Speaker 1: this nonsense really got going in the first place. Because

139
00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,760
Speaker 1: scientists of the day I didn't want to think that

140
00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,280
Speaker 1: they weren't empiric, basing their conclusions on like empiric reality

141
00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:56,640
Speaker 1: even though they weren't, and they found ways to convince

142
00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:01,679
Speaker 1: themselves that observation backed up their fears about masturbation. Here's

143
00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:05,440
Speaker 1: how it worked. Nineteenth century physicians would observe patients and

144
00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,560
Speaker 1: mental institutions and make a note of what behaviors they

145
00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,280
Speaker 1: engaged in. The idea was that whatever behavior unhealthy people

146
00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:17,360
Speaker 1: engaged in must somehow cause that unhealthiness. And since the

147
00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,880
Speaker 1: number one thing inmates and asylums did was masturbate, doctors

148
00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:28,480
Speaker 1: conclusion that masturbation caused insanity. What the fun I mean,

149
00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:33,000
Speaker 1: it's not funny, because no, it's century. Asylums were just

150
00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:37,280
Speaker 1: unbelievable crimes against humanity. But God, good Lord, how simple,

151
00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,400
Speaker 1: and we were calling these people fucking experts. These people

152
00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:43,280
Speaker 1: we lock up in a room and never let out

153
00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:45,640
Speaker 1: our masturbating. That must be why we locked them up,

154
00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,480
Speaker 1: damn it. Huh. And then what have you that people

155
00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:53,760
Speaker 1: that are always looking at them masturbating. Yeah, I don't

156
00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:57,080
Speaker 1: think any of them ever analyzed themselves a little there,

157
00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:01,320
Speaker 1: like apply that same logic path to anything else except

158
00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:05,000
Speaker 1: for this one thing, like they did, but like they

159
00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,719
Speaker 1: did with like kids have pimples and kids masturbate, it

160
00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:11,360
Speaker 1: must be a cause, you know, but everything well then also,

161
00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:13,760
Speaker 1: let's see this kid's also he walks funny, all right's

162
00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,440
Speaker 1: a weird gate and his posture is bad because he's

163
00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,079
Speaker 1: a teen who's like awkward in their own body or

164
00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,720
Speaker 1: their awkward in their own body. And you know, it's

165
00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,199
Speaker 1: just but I love late the lazy science of this time.

166
00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:29,479
Speaker 1: It's amazing, just like it's so fucking ridiculous and unchallenged

167
00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:34,760
Speaker 1: it is. And based on this unbelievably shoddy data, like

168
00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,920
Speaker 1: huge chunks of the scientific community conclude that masturbation is

169
00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,640
Speaker 1: not just bad for you, but a public health menace.

170
00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,280
Speaker 1: And as a result, and since it was like a menace,

171
00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,920
Speaker 1: doctors developed a variety of ways to treat it, because

172
00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,000
Speaker 1: obviously this is a life threatening problem, so almost anything

173
00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,240
Speaker 1: is justified. Ap Ointments were applied to the hands or

174
00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:57,920
Speaker 1: genitals of the masturbating youth to make touching their genitals painful. Uh,

175
00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,120
Speaker 1: stuff like icy hot. Basically do they put like at

176
00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,640
Speaker 1: on people's genitals to make it hurt to touch. Some

177
00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:06,040
Speaker 1: surgeons would actually put holes in a person's foreskin and

178
00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,280
Speaker 1: insert a ring into it, not unlike a Prince Albert,

179
00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:10,720
Speaker 1: but in such a way that if you were to

180
00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,840
Speaker 1: if you were to get erect, it would stretch the

181
00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:19,080
Speaker 1: foreskin painfully. Yeah, these are torture devices, like the club

182
00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:23,520
Speaker 1: for you. Yeah, like the club for your foreskin. That

183
00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:28,640
Speaker 1: is so fucked up and violent, it's horrible. What's the horrible? What?

184
00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:32,920
Speaker 1: And did they have any like success stories that the

185
00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,840
Speaker 1: success story, this one knocked off the masturbating and now

186
00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,560
Speaker 1: they're completely Uh, they're they're they're they're much better now

187
00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,000
Speaker 1: we've seen market improvement. I would imagine the way a

188
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,000
Speaker 1: lot of the success stories work is that, Right, You've

189
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,120
Speaker 1: got this kid who is has some sort of behavioral problem. Right,

190
00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,760
Speaker 1: he's not paying attention in school, He's he's lashing out

191
00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:52,920
Speaker 1: or something. He's doing something and you're blaming it on

192
00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,480
Speaker 1: the masturbation. So you put a torture ring in his

193
00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,440
Speaker 1: dick and he stops doing the thing that got him

194
00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,760
Speaker 1: punished because you're torturing him, right, and he doesn't want

195
00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:06,000
Speaker 1: to be tortured. It's not because he stopped masturbating, because

196
00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,360
Speaker 1: masturbation wasn't causing the behavior, although he probably doesn't masturbate

197
00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,200
Speaker 1: as much because you put a torturing in his dick.

198
00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,840
Speaker 1: But through the same kind of logic they were using

199
00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:17,440
Speaker 1: earlier in the mental hospitals, people conclude this helps. Wow,

200
00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:24,080
Speaker 1: it's great closed loop. Um Castration was ordered in the

201
00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,720
Speaker 1: most severe cases, but circumcision was much more common, and

202
00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,920
Speaker 1: in fact, in the United States, circumcision first gained purchase

203
00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,360
Speaker 1: among gentiles because it was believed, I mean accurately, that

204
00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:38,559
Speaker 1: it would deadened sensation and thus reduce masturbation. So circumcision

205
00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,360
Speaker 1: first became popular among like non Jewish people in the

206
00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:45,240
Speaker 1: United States because it was like an anti masturbation treatment.

207
00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:50,920
Speaker 1: How did that go? Nobody's ever come, myles. I don't

208
00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:52,920
Speaker 1: know if you're aware of this, but it doesn't happen anymore.

209
00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,600
Speaker 1: It's like I'm gonna get some more of that beef

210
00:12:55,640 --> 00:13:00,559
Speaker 1: fat from earlier. Be right back, are you guys rendering

211
00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:06,960
Speaker 1: that lard? So today? Uh, you know, as with today,

212
00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,920
Speaker 1: like for every popular kind of health ailment boogeyman, even

213
00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,880
Speaker 1: like COVID nineteen. You know, there's the stuff the doctors

214
00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,840
Speaker 1: actually prescribed for it, and then there's a whole bunch

215
00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:17,960
Speaker 1: of like mom cures. You know what I'm talking about

216
00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,480
Speaker 1: when I say mom cures, Yeah, homespun remedies cooked up

217
00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:22,880
Speaker 1: by parents. This is the case today with every kind

218
00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:24,720
Speaker 1: of public health problem, and it was the case in

219
00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,960
Speaker 1: the nineteen hundreds with masturbation, as this section from a

220
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,480
Speaker 1: study in the Journal of Technology and Culture lays out quote.

221
00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:34,480
Speaker 1: Some parents, however, preferred to develop methods of their own,

222
00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:37,920
Speaker 1: many of which were patented. American inventive genius quickly asserted

223
00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,959
Speaker 1: itself through the development of a wide variety of gloves, guards,

224
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,480
Speaker 1: and other devices designed to make it more difficult for

225
00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,640
Speaker 1: a child to masturbate. Gloves, for example, we're tied on

226
00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,400
Speaker 1: child children's hands when as they went to bed, and

227
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,800
Speaker 1: parents were instructed to have their child sleep with the

228
00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:53,760
Speaker 1: gloves on top of the blanket to make certain that

229
00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,480
Speaker 1: there was not even gloved contact with the genital area.

230
00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,360
Speaker 1: Gloves were also advised for mental patients and were widely

231
00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,959
Speaker 1: used in mental institutions. Especially designed bed cradles were manufactured

232
00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,439
Speaker 1: in order to lift the bedclothes from the genital area

233
00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,560
Speaker 1: so that the child would not rub against the blankets.

234
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,040
Speaker 1: Girls were discouraged from spreading their legs, and special hobbles

235
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,920
Speaker 1: were designed to prevent them from doing so. They hobbled

236
00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,520
Speaker 1: young girls legs to stop them from spreading them because

237
00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:24,560
Speaker 1: it was thought that that would cause masturbation. Oh most ubiquitous, however,

238
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,280
Speaker 1: were the various harnesses designed to protect the genital area,

239
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,080
Speaker 1: usually patented under the to the term surgical devices. The

240
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:34,560
Speaker 1: female harnesses usually had perforated wire type meshing so that

241
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,280
Speaker 1: the girls could urinate through them and never touched themselves.

242
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:39,960
Speaker 1: All of these devices were fastened in the back, many

243
00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,520
Speaker 1: with locks for which only the parents had the key.

244
00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,200
Speaker 1: For males, there were similar devices, but most popular were

245
00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,000
Speaker 1: sheaths with metal teeth that fitted over the penis. If

246
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,720
Speaker 1: the penis became erect, the teeth pierced the flesh and

247
00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:54,440
Speaker 1: made any erection painful. Each new breakthrough in technology seemed

248
00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:56,880
Speaker 1: to lead to a new kind of device. Appliances that

249
00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,760
Speaker 1: gave electric shocks, for example, came on the market after

250
00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,840
Speaker 1: the elopment of batteries. From patent office records, I have

251
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,440
Speaker 1: been able to identify some twenty devices intended to prevent masturbation.

252
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,960
Speaker 1: Twenty devices. Yeah, that's just the ones that got patented.

253
00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:15,080
Speaker 1: How common would you say this was as a percentage?

254
00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,880
Speaker 1: I have no idea it was. It was obviously this

255
00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,040
Speaker 1: was a thing that wealthier parents did to wealthier kids

256
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:24,600
Speaker 1: more often than it was for the poor. Because it

257
00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:26,800
Speaker 1: costs money to get these kind of medical treatments, that

258
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,400
Speaker 1: costs money to buy these kinds of devices. Um, but

259
00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,880
Speaker 1: it was not uncommon, right, I think is clear it was.

260
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,800
Speaker 1: And and the idea that even if these devices weren't,

261
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,960
Speaker 1: the most method of treating with it, punishing some sort

262
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:44,680
Speaker 1: of punishment, often involving physical pain for masturbation, I would say,

263
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:48,480
Speaker 1: was the norm like when it was caught, because there

264
00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,080
Speaker 1: was a very widespread idea that it was harmful. Right,

265
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,120
Speaker 1: So that's that makes so much sense I think in

266
00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,600
Speaker 1: really trying to look at sort of the practical experience

267
00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:00,320
Speaker 1: of how puritanical American society is and the averse to

268
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:05,280
Speaker 1: sexuality is you have it. You have generations of people

269
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:11,680
Speaker 1: who are you know, receiving punitive treatment, you know, punishment, uh,

270
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:17,040
Speaker 1: physical punishment for exploring their sexuality. And how that just

271
00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:23,360
Speaker 1: sort of keeps manifesting and iterating. Yeah, it's pretty great, Um,

272
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:25,760
Speaker 1: pretty great. I mean it's wild because some of the

273
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,280
Speaker 1: devices described you can now still find on sale, but

274
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:33,320
Speaker 1: for a very different purpose. Um. But I suspect that

275
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,520
Speaker 1: probably has something to do with that. A lot of

276
00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,560
Speaker 1: weird kinks are born during this period because of the

277
00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:43,760
Speaker 1: medical genital torture industry. It's good stuff, Miles, it's good stuff.

278
00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:47,840
Speaker 1: So thanks for having thanks for being on here. It's

279
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,240
Speaker 1: gonna get a lot worse. As a heads up, yeah,

280
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,000
Speaker 1: this is the best it's going to be. So just

281
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,480
Speaker 1: saying just savor, savor the moment where we're just talking

282
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:59,560
Speaker 1: about a torture cage for a penis. Um. So John

283
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,440
Speaker 1: Harvey Outlogue. The reason I go through all this is

284
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,320
Speaker 1: to point out that he was not the origin point

285
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:05,520
Speaker 1: for the war on masturbation, nor was he the only

286
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:09,080
Speaker 1: prominent voice urging abuse of treatments to discourage perfectly natural

287
00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:12,280
Speaker 1: self pleasuring. He was, however, the most prominent physician in

288
00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,680
Speaker 1: the country. By the early nineteen hundreds, the sanitarium was

289
00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:18,320
Speaker 1: one of the most advanced and respected medical facilities in

290
00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:21,360
Speaker 1: the nation, and since Dr Kellogg was an experiment er,

291
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,800
Speaker 1: he experimented with new treatments from masturbation as well. One

292
00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:29,560
Speaker 1: of these treatments involved what he called skillful catheterization, using

293
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,639
Speaker 1: his considerable surgical abilities to insert a catheter up the

294
00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,480
Speaker 1: aurethra of the offending masturbator. Next, he would electrocute the

295
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:40,600
Speaker 1: catheter going up into their aurethra, often while shooting water

296
00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,679
Speaker 1: up into the urethra at the same time to make

297
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,240
Speaker 1: it more conductive. Yeah, I guess, or just because he

298
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,200
Speaker 1: fixed shooting water into every hole is the solution to problems.

299
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:52,440
Speaker 1: It might not have been a tort it that might

300
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:54,280
Speaker 1: just have been because like, well, if we add water,

301
00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:56,440
Speaker 1: it will make it better, because water is the medicine

302
00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:02,200
Speaker 1: that I prefer. Water and electricity the great these electrifying baths.

303
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,040
Speaker 1: So it's not a huge jump for the man Jesus.

304
00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,800
Speaker 1: But yeah, shoves a catheter up there urethro and then

305
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,760
Speaker 1: shoots water and electricity up it again. It sounds like

306
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:16,000
Speaker 1: something the CIA would do, right, Like that's some Guantanamo shit.

307
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:21,080
Speaker 1: Is there any evidence, like we're the writings on the success,

308
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,760
Speaker 1: you know, because I'm sure they probably had to manufacture

309
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:28,600
Speaker 1: stories to make it. Like how could you just like okay, yeah,

310
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,199
Speaker 1: because okay, because I'm just like, you know, this is

311
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,399
Speaker 1: just so fuck up. A big part of this is

312
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,840
Speaker 1: it is not quite universally accepted that that this is

313
00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,240
Speaker 1: bad health wise, and it was, but it was nearly

314
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,440
Speaker 1: universally accepted that it was morally wrong. So it wasn't

315
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:45,280
Speaker 1: just does it work? It was this needs to be punished, right,

316
00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,719
Speaker 1: so this is what you do. It's just like parents

317
00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:51,280
Speaker 1: beating their kids for thousands of years, nobody like there.

318
00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:53,360
Speaker 1: You could find a lot of different people writing about

319
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,960
Speaker 1: how healthy it is to hit your kid. Nobody was

320
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,840
Speaker 1: doing studies on it. There wasn't empirical evidence about the

321
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,119
Speaker 1: value of slapping your get around, but they did it

322
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,400
Speaker 1: and they were certain that it helped. So I don't know, Yes,

323
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:09,760
Speaker 1: so this is just the are just sickest urges in this,

324
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:14,840
Speaker 1: you know, morally quote unquote justifiable? Way absolutely? Um so

325
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,000
Speaker 1: yeah that that was one of Kellogg's experimental therapies, and

326
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,240
Speaker 1: he would he wouldn't when he would have people brought

327
00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:22,919
Speaker 1: into his facility for chronic masturbation. They would often be

328
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,080
Speaker 1: interned at the sanitarium for long periods of time, where

329
00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,919
Speaker 1: a variety of therapies would be tried on them. We

330
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:33,000
Speaker 1: talked last episode about his specific painfully uncomfortable betting requirements

331
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,399
Speaker 1: to avoid stimulation. This was in part because Dr Kellogg

332
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,560
Speaker 1: viewed comfortable, healthy sleep, the kind where you you know,

333
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:43,119
Speaker 1: enter a rim cycle and dream as inherently dangerous. He

334
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,960
Speaker 1: declared in writing, in perfectly natural sleep, there are no dreams.

335
00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,520
Speaker 1: Consciousness is entirely suspended, and for some reason, that is

336
00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,239
Speaker 1: one of the most frightening things I've ever read. Just like,

337
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:59,199
Speaker 1: if you're dreaming, you're unhealthy. Someone's dreaming, someone's having weird dreams,

338
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,560
Speaker 1: aren't they. Dr John Kellogg is having some dreams that

339
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,240
Speaker 1: he does not like. Hey, if you're having dreams too,

340
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,720
Speaker 1: then you're just as Based on this logic, yeah, that's

341
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:11,879
Speaker 1: why you want to make sure they're sleeping. Arrangements are

342
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,119
Speaker 1: as uncomfortable as possible, so that nobody ever gets a

343
00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,399
Speaker 1: good night's sleep. And did he practice what he preached?

344
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:18,879
Speaker 1: He did. He did practice what he to to the

345
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,639
Speaker 1: extent that we can verify as far as we know,

346
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:25,399
Speaker 1: he practiced what he preached. Interesting, John Harvey didn't just

347
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,480
Speaker 1: think dreams were unhealthy. He thought they were immoral. If

348
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,280
Speaker 1: a child or a woman with a masturbating problem claimed

349
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,920
Speaker 1: to be unable to control their dreams, he would call

350
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:38,400
Speaker 1: them a liar. Erotic dreams, in Kellogg's understanding, were choices

351
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:43,040
Speaker 1: acts of deliberate defiance against morality and against the medical establishment.

352
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,560
Speaker 1: Dr Kellogg also urged his patients to avoid consumption of

353
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 1: quote sexually aggressive food. And here's a quote from Kellogg.

354
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:56,600
Speaker 1: Tea and coffee have led thousands to perdition in this way, candy, spices, cinnamon, clothes, peppermints,

355
00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 1: and all strong essences powerfully excite the genital organ and

356
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,040
Speaker 1: lead to the same result. You know how when you're

357
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,800
Speaker 1: drinking coffee and you just can't stop yourself, just just

358
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,200
Speaker 1: just pounding it like a beach at oh Maha before

359
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 1: the ground assaulting did cinnamon might as well call it?

360
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:20,360
Speaker 1: Oh no, No, they didn't have spices in his day.

361
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,480
Speaker 1: Remember he broke up with his brother because his brother

362
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:26,400
Speaker 1: puts sugar in the corners. It was part of part

363
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 1: of why they didn't get along. Yeah, I really appreciate

364
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,320
Speaker 1: that D day visual to thank you. Yes, it's a

365
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,439
Speaker 1: someone furiously masturbating, like on a hedgehog on the beach.

366
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:54,440
Speaker 1: Uh So, all right, here's the ads. We're back, we're back,

367
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:58,159
Speaker 1: and we're all having a good appropriate work day. Um,

368
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 1: let's get back to talking about how this old man

369
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,240
Speaker 1: punished people for masturbating. So it will probably not surprise

370
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,760
Speaker 1: you to hear that. John Harvey Kellogg also forbade his

371
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 1: patients from reading romantic literature, which in his mind, was

372
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 1: as deadly as any hard drug. Quote. Storybooks, romances, love tales,

373
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,199
Speaker 1: and religious novels constitute the chief part of the reading

374
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:22,160
Speaker 1: matter which American young ladies greedily devour. We have known

375
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 1: young ladies still in their teens who had read whole

376
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,399
Speaker 1: libraries of the most exciting novels. The taste for novel

377
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:33,200
Speaker 1: reading is like that for liquor or opium. Wait the whole.

378
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 1: Guys like Kellogg, he wants a world where nobody eats spices,

379
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,359
Speaker 1: everything is planned, nobody sleeps a full night's sleep, and

380
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,399
Speaker 1: people are tortured for masturbating. And if a girl reads

381
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 1: a romance novel, she might become aware of the fact

382
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,880
Speaker 1: that it's possible to enjoy life and that would be

383
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 1: devastating to John Harvey Kellogg's worldview. What a fucking he

384
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 1: is Just it's just so ridiculous when that earlier quote,

385
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 1: when he's said it would be like an act of

386
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:06,159
Speaker 1: you know, you know, transgression against medical establishment, and he

387
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,400
Speaker 1: coupled that with morality, you know, just sort of this

388
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 1: you know, Oh, they've been ordained from fucking by God

389
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 1: to be the enforcers of his law. However they see

390
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,640
Speaker 1: it through their fucked up lens. He believes that struggle,

391
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,239
Speaker 1: you know, he gets into medicine through the Seventh day

392
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 1: Adventist Church to him dedicating him to God. And now

393
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 1: like it's just like, what a fucking that? Just what

394
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 1: shows you though too, Like I'm sure you know how

395
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: again that's something else that reverberates in medicine culturally. If

396
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 1: this is if this is part of you know, like

397
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 1: I'm I'm guessing this was the medical establishment. Like quite

398
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: this is not universal. There are, as we talked about later,

399
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 1: there's doctors a lot, there's medical like a not insignificant

400
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 1: amount of medical professionals. And in this period, even who

401
00:23:53,000 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 1: disagree with these conclusions but this is a fairly mainstream attitude. Yes, um,

402
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 1: you know, John Harvey Kellogg is kind of like a

403
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: Doctor Oz figure, but he is much more respected among

404
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,919
Speaker 1: mainstream doctors than Dr Oz was imparted because he is

405
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 1: actually an excellent surgeon, right like he isn't. Yeah? Um,

406
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,360
Speaker 1: So I found a lot of the quotes that I've

407
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 1: read so far, and a wonderful why write up by

408
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 1: Jezebel It will be on the show. Notes that I

409
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 1: really recommend reading. Um. That article summarizes Dr Kellogg's arguments

410
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: against romance literature. Thus Lee. The problem with this sort

411
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 1: of reading, explained to Kellogg, is that it takes a

412
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: girl beyond the wholesome dreadfulness of her reality and transports

413
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,880
Speaker 1: her to a place that triggers passion. Passion so great

414
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 1: that some girls quote discovered the fatal secret themselves. And

415
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: the fatal secret is, of course, that it's it's possible

416
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 1: for women to orgasm. Oh my god, you don't. You

417
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 1: don't want to learning that? And this here that I

418
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: should note that John Harvey Kellogg bragged his entire life

419
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 1: about never consummating his marriage. He was married for like

420
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,879
Speaker 1: forty something years and would grag his entire life, that

421
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 1: he and his wife never fucked. I'm so sorry to her,

422
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: but I have a feeling he was probably bad at sex.

423
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 1: I think she might have dodged a bullet there. Yeah, yeah,

424
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 1: I think so. She's like, yeah, what is how do

425
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: you like? You're like, oh, you know, I'm not fine

426
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 1: dry for fucking ages, man, baby, it's just oh my god,

427
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: kidney stones. I don't even get my dick wet when

428
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 1: I take a bath. A special copper submersible diving bell

429
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: for my genitals, Oh god what ah? No, definitely not

430
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 1: a genital diving bell. Yeah, a genital that's very fun.

431
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what do you even say

432
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 1: to that this is this is this is like like

433
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 1: the fact that you would brag about being married for

434
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 1: forty something years and never once fucking is give some

435
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: And the fact that he's a man who thought that

436
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: dreaming was unhealthy. Like both of those facts together like, oh,

437
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 1: you were profoundly damaged, just an incredibly unhealthy person. Yeah,

438
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: it's unbelievable. And then really amazing this like his place

439
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 1: in our culture and being so like just unwitting about

440
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: the entire history about him. Aside from just vaguely being

441
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 1: like, like like I said in the beginning of like, yeah, dude,

442
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 1: I know he was like about masturbation. Yeah, no, no,

443
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: it's it's real bad. It's about to get real worse.

444
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: So John Harvey Kellogg, if questioned on any of the

445
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,199
Speaker 1: things that I've read, any of his like statements that

446
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 1: I've read earlier, if questioned about any of this, would

447
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: have defended himself by pointing out studies like the research

448
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 1: into masturbating mental patients. He would have claimed accurately that

449
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: the dangers of masturbation were widely agreed upon by experts

450
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,120
Speaker 1: of his day. But most of his specific claims about

451
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: how children were impacted by what he called the secret

452
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 1: vice were not tied to any specific research. He was convinced,

453
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: for moral reasons that masturbation was a danger, eclipsing almost

454
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,919
Speaker 1: anything else. There was no research to show that electrocution,

455
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 1: uncomfortable beds, and mental abuse actually stopped masturbation, but they

456
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 1: punished the crime of self abuse, and John Harvey looked

457
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: no further than that in justifying his treatments. And again

458
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:25,959
Speaker 1: you have to remember that this guy is like the

459
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: pop doctor of his day. Parents listened to him. Here

460
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,199
Speaker 1: is a checklist he published of different behaviors that, in

461
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 1: his mind, were signs that a parent's child was secretly

462
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:41,239
Speaker 1: engaged in deadly masturbation. Bed wedding quote. Masturbation causes the

463
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 1: entire genital area to become lax and undisciplined changes in behavior.

464
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: When a girl naturally joyous, happy, confiding, and amiable becomes

465
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: an unaccountably gloomy, sad, fretful to satisfied and unconfiding. Be

466
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: certain that masturbation is the cause for it will rarely

467
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 1: be found to be anything other than solitary and indulgence.

468
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,719
Speaker 1: He listed insomnia as a justification for a suspicion of

469
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 1: evil habits. Trouble in school might also indicate masturbation, as

470
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: doctor as Dr Kellogg claimed, it damage children's memories and

471
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 1: their ability to focus. Masturbation caused lying, bashfulness and an

472
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: unwillingness to meet the eyes of adults. The eye is

473
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: a wonderful tell tale of the secrets of the mind,

474
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: he warned parents. Boldness a child acting out, in other words,

475
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: was another sign of secret masturbation, as was fearfulness quote.

476
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,400
Speaker 1: Easily frightened children are abundant among young masturbaters. The victim's

477
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 1: mind is constantly filled with vague forebodings of evil. He

478
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: often looks behind him, looks into all the closets, peeps

479
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: under the bed, and is constantly expressing fears of impending evil.

480
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: Such movements are the result of a diseased imagination, and

481
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: they may give right justly give rise to suspicion. Another sign,

482
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: z Miles, it's like he's just listing everything a kid

483
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: would possibly do. It's so fucked up and unfair. It

484
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: gets worse. Another side was unusual vaginal discharge or a

485
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: stretched vaginal cavity in little girls. Most worrisome, Kellogg wrote,

486
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: was seductive behavior from young female children. A forward or

487
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: loose manner and company with little boys is suspicious conduct,

488
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: especially in one who has previously shown no disposition of

489
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 1: this short sort. Girls addicted to this habit usually show

490
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: an unnatural fondness for the society of little boys, and

491
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: not infrequently are guilty of the most wanton conduct. Now

492
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: you already noted, Miles, that a number of these symptoms

493
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 1: of secret masturbation or just things kids do. But it

494
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: gets worse than that, because, as that Jezebel write up notes,

495
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: a lot of the things that Dr Kellog laid out

496
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: as signs of masturbation are also today commonly recognized signs

497
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: that a child may be sexually abused. Oh my God, yeah, buddy, yeah, Jesus,

498
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 1: here's Jezebel quote the Delaware Department of Services for Children,

499
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: Youth and their Families. Because it gives a very succinct

500
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: list of similar behaviors, which also include changes and behavior

501
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: inappropriate sexual behaviors, changes in school performance, and vaginal discharge.

502
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: Modern medicine and psychology identifies these conditions as potential signs

503
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: of a child being sexually abused. The two lists match

504
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: almost word for word. Now, the thought that countless sex

505
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: abuse victims were brought to Dr Kellogg. Child sex abuse

506
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: victims were brought to Dr Kellogg and punished for masturbation

507
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 1: is horrible enough, but it actually gets a lot worse

508
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: than that. A particularly dire case study would be one

509
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: that Kellogg himself wrote out in his nineteen o two

510
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: edition of Ladies Guide to Health and Disease, a book

511
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: he absolutely should not have written. He writes that a

512
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: mother brought in her ten year old daughter to him

513
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: for treatment. The young girl was a rape victim. Dr

514
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 1: Kellogg identifies her as such. He knew that she was

515
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: a victim of sexual abuse, and he wrote quote her

516
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: first instruction, and by instruction he means her first Like

517
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: she first learned about sex by this guy who abused her.

518
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 1: Was received from a hoary headed fiend in human shape

519
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 1: who had enticed her to a secluded place, and they're

520
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: introduced her to all the nastiness which is depraved and

521
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: sensual nature could devise. Now, so far, that's not horrible.

522
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: He's putting the blame on the abuser, which is good.

523
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: But the problem is that Kellogg didn't see this little

524
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: girl's chief problem as the fact that she'd been abused

525
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: and assaulted and robbed of agency over her own body.

526
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: In his eyes, the problem was that she had been

527
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: introduced to sexual sin and that was going to make

528
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: her masturbate. Oh my god. So again he gets brought

529
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: a ten year old sex abuse victim and his first

530
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:39,479
Speaker 1: concern is she might start masturbating. Yeah, yeah, and like

531
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 1: this just horrible feedback loop. That's impossible, Like all roads

532
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: just lead to this no matter what, and there's no

533
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: empathy or anything. And it's the thing where even if

534
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: this person is a victim in being a victim leads

535
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 1: them to this what he believes as an evil behavior.

536
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: The solution is always some form of abuse to stop

537
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: the masturbation. He wrote, quote, a little girl, naturally bright,

538
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 1: an unusually attractive and intelligent, had become the victim of

539
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 1: this soul and body destroying habit, which had brought on

540
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: a serious nervous disease and threatened to destroy both body

541
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: and mind before she had reached the age of ten years.

542
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: So you see what he's doing here. He's identifying that

543
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: she's traumatized, but he's blaming it not on the assault,

544
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: but on the fact that she's masturbating. That he assumes

545
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 1: she's masturbating as a result of the assault. As a physician,

546
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 1: Dr Kellogg saw his job as not helping this girl

547
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: with the trauma from her assault, or even treating the

548
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 1: physical symptoms of her rape. His job was to stop

549
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: her from masturbating. In cases like these, he had a

550
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: standard procedure. Step one was that the parents needed to

551
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 1: catch their child in the act. The best way to

552
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: do that, he believed, was to wait until a few

553
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: minutes after the child had gone to bed and sneak

554
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: up on them, throw off their blankets and quote under

555
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 1: some pretense forcibly examined the child's in to tal you

556
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: for evidence of sexual excitement. So again he's brought in

557
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: a rape victim and he tells your parents, what you

558
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: need to do is assaulter in the night of the night. Yeah. Yeah,

559
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: hard to define a worse thing to do in that situation. Yeah,

560
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: and again no matter, Oh, it's presumed masturbating is the

561
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: reason that they have are displaying trauma on top of

562
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: or displaying their signs of their trauma on top of

563
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: acknowledging but not understand. It's just so vile. Yeah, it's

564
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: it's really bad. And like to know that again whatever

565
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: if this is the majority or whatever, that it's mainstream

566
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: enough that there are generations of parents that ingested this,

567
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: Like how like what the reverberations of that are and

568
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: like down like in our culture and where like where

569
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: we're at, like this is, yeah, this is thee of

570
00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: the seeds of that. Yeah, you you think about just

571
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: how fucked up things, how how clearly fucked up both

572
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: not just like the things revealed by me too, but

573
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 1: sort of the the reaction to it and the lashing

574
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 1: back against it, all of that um, this is a

575
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: part of that, right, because a lot of the generations

576
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: that created what are today is sort of like the

577
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: conservative moral code, were raised in this stuff. Their grandparents

578
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 1: were raised in this stuff, right, and they passed some

579
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: of that down like this is a piece of that

580
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:34,720
Speaker 1: horrible puzzle. It's pretty bad. So back on this subject

581
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: of inspecting kids to make sure they're not masturbating. For

582
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: children with penises, this was as easy as looking for

583
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: an erection. For children with vagina's, Kellogg wrote, quote, if

584
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: the same course is pursued with girls under the same circumstances,

585
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: the clearest will be found congested with the other genital organs,

586
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: which will also be moist from increased secretion. So let's recap.

587
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 1: His advice to the appearance of a teen year old

588
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 1: rape victim was to throw off her covers by surprise

589
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 1: and the dead of night and forcefully inspect her vagiant.

590
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 1: His prescription for the each parents of sex abuse victims

591
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 1: was to abuse their children. Further. It's yeah, like what again,

592
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 1: what's the that? What are you saying at that? But

593
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 1: again it's like they don't get care about evidence, because

594
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 1: this really isn't about no improving their lives. The The

595
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: real threat is it's telling that like he's obviously disgusted

596
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: at the rapist, but his real horror is that the

597
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: the young girl might take some sort of agency over

598
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: her body. That's the actual thing that he's he's frightened

599
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: of um or boys. He was he didn't like boys

600
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: taking age. He didn't be believe people had He believed

601
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 1: like I think it was more like like your body

602
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: belongs to God, right, it's the seventh Day. I mean,

603
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 1: it's not just the seven day eventus that believe this,

604
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: But that's where he gets it. It's this idea that

605
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 1: your body is not your own and it is my

606
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 1: job as a physician to stop you from abusing it.

607
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: It's pretty bad and what a morbid responsibility to think, Yes, yeah, um,

608
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,839
Speaker 1: pretty dark. Uh. And I should say that everything we've

609
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 1: just outlined was the least invasive deterrent that John Harvey

610
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: Kellogg suggested for the cases of masturbation. The goal here

611
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,720
Speaker 1: was to shame these kids by embarrassing them. They didn't

612
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: like that was that was the actual goal, was that, like,

613
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: if your parents catch you in the night, you will

614
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,280
Speaker 1: be ashamed and you won't do it anymore. He believed

615
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,840
Speaker 1: that what he one instance of what he called morally

616
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: justified violation would deter most children, for those who soldiered

617
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,320
Speaker 1: on his prescription grew more severe. Quote. Bandaging the parts

618
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: has been practiced with success. Tying the hands is also

619
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 1: successful in some cases, but this will not always succeed,

620
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: for they will often contrive to continue the habit in

621
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: other ways, as by working the limbs or lying upon

622
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: the abdomen. Covering the organs with the cage has been

623
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: practiced with entire success. Like many doctors of his era,

624
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 1: Kellogg prescribed circumcision to his most severe patients. He was

625
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 1: adamant that in these cases painkillers should not be prescribed. Quote.

626
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 1: The operations should be performed by a surgeon with without

627
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: administering an anesthetic. Is the brief pain attending the the

628
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 1: operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially

629
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 1: if it be connected with the idea of punishment, as

630
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 1: it may well be in some cases. The soreness, which

631
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 1: continues for several weeks interrupts the practice, and if it

632
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: had not previously become too firmly fixed, it may be

633
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 1: forgotten and not resumed. Jesus So surgery with yeah genital

634
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 1: surgery without uh, anesthesia is your punishment for masturbating? I don't.

635
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,399
Speaker 1: We are now in the territory of like I think

636
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:42,959
Speaker 1: some CIA guys would be like, whoa hold on someone,

637
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 1: get the Geneva Convention really quick. We've never read it,

638
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: but I'm pretty sure this isn't. This definitely is over

639
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 1: the line. Huh yeah, damn yeah so And I'm just

640
00:37:55,480 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 1: thinking again that will accepted that kind of treat it is,

641
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 1: and like how the pattern of inflict as much pain

642
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 1: as possible to solve the problem yep, still exists to

643
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: this day. It shure does, mich you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah,

644
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: it sure does. Surgery was also prescribed for little girls. Um,

645
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,240
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to prevaricate here. The surgical option

646
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 1: was what we now call female genital mutilation. Um. They

647
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 1: did not call it that then. They called it the

648
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: severing of the clitterests and the labia minora. Kellogg himself

649
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 1: wrote in one of his case studies, quote, a little

650
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 1: girl about ten years of age was brought to us

651
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: by her father, who came with his daughter with his

652
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: daughter to have her broken of the vile habit of

653
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 1: self abuse into which she had fallen. Having read an

654
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 1: early copy of this work, the father had speedily detected

655
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 1: the habit and had adopted every measure which he could

656
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: devise to break his child of the destructive vice which

657
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 1: she had acquired. But in vain, it finally became necessary

658
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 1: to resort to a surgical operation, by which it is

659
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: hoped that she was permanently cured, as we have heard

660
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 1: nothing to the contrary since and since, and as the

661
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: remedy seemed to be effectual. So that is a father

662
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: who is a fan of Kelly Kellogg's books, reads them

663
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 1: and becomes obsessed with the idea that his daughter might

664
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: be masturbating, become convinced that he's master, that she is masturbating,

665
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,760
Speaker 1: that he can't stop her um and after repeatedly assaulting

666
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 1: her in the night, takes her to Dr Kellogg to

667
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 1: have her genitals mutilated. That that's what happened in that

668
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 1: case study, and that's a success. That is a success.

669
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,880
Speaker 1: And one of the good things that Jezebel article notes

670
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: is that, as you can tell from that like in

671
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: that right up, Dr Kellogg doesn't check in on the child.

672
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 1: He says it is it is hoped she was permanently

673
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 1: accured because we haven't heard anything to the contrary, since

674
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:48,760
Speaker 1: he doesn't Yeah, he doesn't check it in. He doesn't

675
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: be like, yeah, look, look back in after four or

676
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 1: five weeks after this surgery to see if it did anything. Like,

677
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: he doesn't do a follow man, it is it's butchery. Yeah,

678
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,280
Speaker 1: and it's he's treating it like it's some kind of tumor.

679
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, yeah, I know, I just do that

680
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 1: and then uh, don't worry about it, like that's that's problem.

681
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 1: That'll that'll, that'll take care of it, Like you're not.

682
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: It's not again, it's not like you're saying it's butchery.

683
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 1: It's not actual. There's nothing. There's nothing restorative or helpful

684
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 1: or healthy, no about sucking any of it. No. And

685
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 1: it's because it's it's not really based in science, it's

686
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: based in morality. He doesn't need to study how his

687
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: patients do in the long term when he does stuff

688
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 1: like this, because he knows he's right. It would be

689
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 1: a waste of time to confirm it. Many doctors and

690
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 1: Kellogg's era prescribed female genital mutilation as a treatment for masturbation,

691
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: but Kellogg pioneered another treatment the application of carbolic acid

692
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 1: to the sensitive parts of the sexual organs in order

693
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 1: to burn them badly enough that all sensation was permanently deadened.

694
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, I know this. This is the This is

695
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,800
Speaker 1: in some ways maybe the worst one since Georgia Tan. Yeah. Yeah,

696
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 1: it's bad. It's real fucking bad. Didn't we do Georgia

697
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 1: Tan with Sophia? We did. We're just scarring left right, Yeah,

698
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,720
Speaker 1: we're gonna break them down. Yeah. Please associate my stoner

699
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:18,479
Speaker 1: reality podcast with this. Check this show out nothing being

700
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 1: high and watching TV like profoundly abusive practices towards probably

701
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 1: tens of thousands of children. Do you think that's that's

702
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 1: the number? I mean, not just we're not just talking

703
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 1: Kellogg here when I I really have no idea, but

704
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: it was, it was. He was not the only doctor

705
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 1: doing this like and will because this was you didn't

706
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,359
Speaker 1: want to talk about sex. Well, we will never know

707
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 1: how many little girls in this period in the United

708
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 1: States were mutilated in this way. Here's some ads. We're back,

709
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: We're back. Um now. I have noted that Kellogg was

710
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: not alone in using female genital mu relation is a

711
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 1: treatment for masturbation here, but I should also note that

712
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 1: a huge number of medical professionals railed against the practice,

713
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 1: and that even in Kellogg's day, a significant amount of legitimate,

714
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:14,800
Speaker 1: documented scientific literature pointed to it being a wildly harmful procedure.

715
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: This was not uncommon. It was also not universally agreed

716
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 1: upon as healthy. In eighteen sixty eight, when John Harvey

717
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 1: was just fifteen, a gynecologist named Charles Rest wrote a

718
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 1: book called Lectures on the Diseases of Women. In it,

719
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 1: he recalled the story of a fifty three year old

720
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 1: woman who went to a surgeon for anal fissures. The surgeon,

721
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 1: in this case, without getting her permission or asking at all,

722
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 1: also removed her clitterist west In eighteen sixty eight, a

723
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 1: male gynecologist condemned this behavior and wrote it will I

724
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 1: imagine scarcely be contended that proceedings which we should reprobate

725
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: if practiced on the one sex, changed their character when

726
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 1: perpetrated on the other. And he's saying, if they'd cut

727
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 1: a guy's dick off, you wouldn't be okay with this.

728
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 1: Why is it okay when it's a clitterist. So there

729
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 1: were people who recognized, there were doctors who recognized how

730
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 1: horrible this was. It was not just the sign of

731
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 1: the times, you know, I mean, like, so what was

732
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 1: it take, Like did the general public need doctors like

733
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 1: that to like even stimulate that kind of thinking for

734
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:21,959
Speaker 1: them to be like, yeah, hold on, maybe that is bad.

735
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:23,879
Speaker 1: Or do you think there were people who I'm sure

736
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,759
Speaker 1: I'm hearing that we're also like what the fun I'm

737
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 1: sure there were I'm sure there were plenty of even

738
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 1: like poor illiterate dudes who are like, I'm not going

739
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 1: to let you cut my my my kids up, like

740
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 1: fuck you, like stay the hell away. Yeah, I'm certain

741
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: that happened. But obviously those people aren't writing books, and

742
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: those people aren't giving lectures that make sure medical schools

743
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 1: like John Harvey Kellogg. You know, John Harvey Kellogg kept

744
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: up his devotion to clar erectoms his entire medical career,

745
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 1: even after nineteen twelve, when mainstream medical textbooks began to

746
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,279
Speaker 1: condemn the practices not just completely ineffective but liable to

747
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 1: cause the kind of mental health problems that James Harvey

748
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 1: Kellogg blamed on master Nation. The fact that he was

749
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 1: wrong about a great deal of very important things had

750
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 1: no negative impact on John Harvey's sanitarium. This was, unfortunately

751
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 1: due partly to the fact that he was right about

752
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 1: an awful lot. Kellub was a major early proponent of exercise,

753
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 1: which at the time was not widely recognized as beneficial.

754
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: He was also way ahead of the curve on gut bacteria.

755
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: Medical scientists are only really now starting to get a

756
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,960
Speaker 1: handle on how important gut bacteria are to your overall

757
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 1: health health, but in lately, in the late eighteen hundreds

758
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 1: and early nineteen hundreds, doctor John Harvey Kellogg understood, you

759
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: know how big a deal it was. He partnered with

760
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 1: Henrie to say, I'm probably some guy, some French fucking guy,

761
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,360
Speaker 1: a scientist at the Pasture Laboratory in France, and together

762
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,799
Speaker 1: they would study acidophilis, proving he understood how to do

763
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 1: actual rigorous empirical science when he wanted to. Kellogg and

764
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 1: his partner found that people whose guts had acidophilis suffered

765
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: far fewer digestive diseases than people who did not, So

766
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 1: he was capable of doing science. Yeah, in that very

767
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 1: strict way. Yeah, all right, if all these people got it,

768
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: then that's that means that you know what I mean,

769
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:09,359
Speaker 1: if they're all masturbating, then that's that's a sign. That's

770
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 1: all I need. And then you know it's like the

771
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 1: clock is broken. Clocks right. Kellogg became a huge advocate

772
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: of yogurt's health benefits. He became rightfully convinced that the

773
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: bacteria and yogurt protected against disease and believed those bacteria

774
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 1: quote should be planted where they are most needed and

775
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,439
Speaker 1: may render the most effective service. This of course meant

776
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 1: eating yogurt. But that isn't all at meant miles and

777
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: you know the guyness was right, you know what he's this,

778
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 1: He's gonna put it up there. But Kellogg had been

779
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 1: convinced for years that auto intoxication, which we discussed last episode,

780
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 1: was beyond behind all bowel disease. Once he realized that

781
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 1: yogurt could populate the gut with good bacteria, he saw

782
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 1: yogurt as a cure for auto intoxication and the best

783
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:57,359
Speaker 1: way of administering it would be via enema. He would

784
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,120
Speaker 1: use his enema machine for this whole court court of

785
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 1: water first, and then gigantic quantities of yogurt up the

786
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 1: ass second. Wow, I mean, at least he had evidence

787
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 1: and that was. There's a lot more evidence that shooting

788
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: yogurt up your ass is good than anything than anything

789
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: he's ever done in his life. But that's where we're

790
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: at with this guy and his patented machine. Obviously, because

791
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 1: he did shooting stuff up his own ass machine which

792
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 1: absolutely wasn't a kink, No, not at all. And this

793
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: is custom, custom machinery or not, maybe just repurposed industrial machinery. Yeah,

794
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 1: the machine that he designed to shoot yogurt up his

795
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 1: own ass. Because he started every single day with a

796
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 1: regular enema and a yogurt enema if you're ever expensive,

797
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:48,240
Speaker 1: I mean, he was really wasted. He runs the enema company,

798
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 1: you know, I know, but I mean, like, how much

799
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 1: yogurt are you going through a day there? I think

800
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 1: less than the water, right, I mean like, yeah, gallons

801
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 1: of yogurt. I mean maybe that's a flex if you're

802
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 1: saying like that, I can shoot gallons literally do a

803
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 1: half barrel. Yeah. As a rule, if you're ever wondering

804
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 1: what doctor James John Rvey Kellogg was getting up to

805
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 1: on a specific day in history, you would be safe

806
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 1: in guessing shooting a variety of liquids up his own

807
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 1: ass gut problems were at least as big a part

808
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 1: of the sanitarium's treatments as abuse of sexual procedures. McGill

809
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: University writes, quote, There were other options for those who

810
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,240
Speaker 1: didn't see the appeal of being pumped full of yogurt

811
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 1: through their rear portals. The Sands mechano Therapy department had

812
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 1: come up with the vibratory chair. This was a spring

813
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 1: loaded device that shook the patient violently to stimulate intestinal peristalis.

814
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 1: Once the toxins had been dislodged in this fashion, headaches

815
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: and back aches would disappear, and according to Kellogg, the

816
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 1: body would be filled with a healthy dose of oxygen

817
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 1: and the Sand's coffers would be filled with a heavy

818
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:52,720
Speaker 1: dose of money. The Sand off also offered a variety

819
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 1: of baths cold, hot, and electrified. If this did not

820
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,359
Speaker 1: shock the disease out of the unfortunate victim, then Dr

821
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 1: Kellogg resorted to surgery, removing the offending part of the intestine.

822
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:05,399
Speaker 1: Kellogg carried out over twenty two thousands such operations during

823
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:09,240
Speaker 1: his career with a remarkably low complicate complication rate. Probably

824
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 1: not necessary procedures, but at least he was good at it.

825
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 1: Out of him. And what was that based off of

826
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:26,840
Speaker 1: people who were did a lot of off road bugging.

827
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 1: We're really healthy because they were just I just had

828
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 1: the rockiest set in town. I have no idea what

829
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 1: that one was based on. They were just try and

830
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 1: ship past a certain point, you know, like fuck it.

831
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 1: John Harvey Kellogg's pioneering work played a major role in

832
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: popularizing yogurt within the Western diet. He was also one

833
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 1: of the first major advocates of soy milk, which he

834
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 1: found was an even better way to propagate acidophilis than yogurt,

835
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 1: and this brings us to Dr Kellogg's most famous and

836
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:02,359
Speaker 1: popular contribution to mankind kfist. John Harvey Kellogg had a brother,

837
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: will Keith, who for a time worked with him at

838
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 1: the sanitarium. Together, the two spent years developing foods meant

839
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:10,479
Speaker 1: to replace meat in the diet. Who created a number

840
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 1: of different nut butters, experimented with soy, and looked for

841
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 1: more ways to work whole grains into the American diet.

842
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 1: Dr Kellogg was a big fan of zwyback, a twice

843
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 1: baked biscuit that he felt felt helped people purge toxins,

844
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: but Zwyback was so hard that at one point, an

845
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: elderly patient at the sanitarium broke her dentures on it

846
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: and threatened to sue him if he didn't pay for them.

847
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 1: John Harvey didn't want to pay for more old people's dentures,

848
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 1: so he and his brother Will set to work developing

849
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,320
Speaker 1: a way to pound grain and fiber into their patients

850
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 1: without damaging their teeth. Through an incredibly boring process of

851
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 1: trial and error, they arrived at corn flakes. Miguil writes,

852
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 1: quote John Harvey was only interested in the health properties

853
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 1: of the new products. Could these serve as an antidote

854
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 1: to the passion stirred up by meat? But Will was

855
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 1: a businessman and was bent on commercialization. Now I found

856
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,799
Speaker 1: a write up on encyclopedia dot com that actually gives

857
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,840
Speaker 1: find a good explanation of the fallout that resulted between

858
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 1: John Harvey and his brother Will, who seems like the

859
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,800
Speaker 1: only sort of decent member of the family. Um, John

860
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:13,839
Speaker 1: Harvey absolutely comes out as the asshole in this relationship. Quote. Will,

861
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 1: often known as W. K. Kellogg, never had a very

862
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 1: good relationship with his older brother. According to Benjamin Klein,

863
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: Hunnicutt and Kellogg six hour day. Famous for his energy

864
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 1: and untiring work, John Harvey cultivated the image of a

865
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 1: superman dictating the secretaries for eight hours at a stretch,

866
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 1: performing operations through the night, conspicuously working at meals and

867
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 1: on trains. John Harvey expected w K to live up

868
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 1: to this myth and berated him for being lazy if

869
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 1: he stole some time at home. When Post began making

870
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 1: millions of dollars through aggressive advertising and free giveaways, w

871
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 1: K wanted to develop a similar large scale advertising campaign.

872
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 1: When his elder brother said no, w K began looking

873
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 1: for ways to take control of the company. Because of

874
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 1: his notorious frugality, John Harvey had convinced employees to accept

875
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:57,799
Speaker 1: lower pay along with stock in the serial business now

876
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:00,800
Speaker 1: known as the Kellogg Toasted corn Flake Company. W K

877
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: secured financing from a wealthy St. Louis insurance broker and

878
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 1: quietly began buying stock. By n six, he controlled the company.

879
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 1: So they make a serial company together. But Will does

880
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 1: not get along with his brothers is one thing. His

881
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 1: brothers just shaming him constantly for like having a life

882
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:19,800
Speaker 1: outside of making cereal. You mean, oh I heard you

883
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 1: use pepper. The other day sick fuck well, and Will

884
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 1: is seeing like other serial companies have started develop at

885
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:29,320
Speaker 1: this point, and Will is seeing them advertise and seeing

886
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 1: them add sugar, and he's like, we can make more

887
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 1: money if we do this, And John Harvey Kellogg is like, no,

888
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:37,720
Speaker 1: it's about keeping people boring and yeah, So Will buys

889
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:39,879
Speaker 1: up the company in secret and takes it over from

890
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 1: his brother. The break between John and Will came in

891
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 1: part because Will wanted to add sugar to corn flakes

892
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 1: so human beings would enjoy it. John Harvey thought sugar

893
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:50,240
Speaker 1: would make people come, and he violently opposed the idea.

894
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 1: It is hard to overstate what a huge deal corn

895
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 1: flakes were for society. I found an NPR interview with

896
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 1: an author who wrote a book about the Kellogg brothers,

897
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 1: a guy named Markel, and he does a good job

898
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 1: of explaining just why this was revolutionary. Quote. Making breakfast

899
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,240
Speaker 1: was an ordeal. So even if you made porridge or mush,

900
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 1: these whole grains took hours to melt down and then

901
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 1: make into a mush or a soft form. And so

902
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 1: these poor mothers were getting up very early, and they

903
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 1: were probably taking care of their children all night. They

904
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 1: had to start a wood burning fire, and so making

905
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:21,760
Speaker 1: breakfast was a great ordeal. But John Harvey Kellogg invented

906
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:23,720
Speaker 1: them for the involuted people who came to his Battle

907
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 1: Creek Sanitarium. It was his little brother Will who realized,

908
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 1: you know, there are a lot more people who are

909
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:30,319
Speaker 1: healthy and just want a convenient, tasty snack than those

910
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 1: who are ill and eat it need an easily digestible breakfast.

911
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 1: So he had added a little sugar a little salt

912
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:37,440
Speaker 1: to corn flakes, and it just took the world by

913
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:39,799
Speaker 1: storm in nineteen o six because you could simply pour

914
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 1: breakfast out of a box. Even dad could make breakfast. Now,

915
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:48,839
Speaker 1: even dad's suspecting you of jerking off, yea, even dad

916
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,759
Speaker 1: who's tired from breaking into your room at night, who

917
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:54,760
Speaker 1: doesn't know how to break his own cycles of abuse

918
00:52:54,800 --> 00:53:02,359
Speaker 1: and mistreatment. Ken corn flakes, Jesus. But yeah, that's so

919
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 1: fucking wild, you know. It's it's something like that just

920
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:08,280
Speaker 1: creates all this cover for the name. Now, it's amazing.

921
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 1: I don't know if anyone else we've ever covered with

922
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 1: this incredible mix of outrageous harm done to society and

923
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 1: also helped create things. Every single person listening to this

924
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 1: enjoy it, Like, no matter who you are, he either

925
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 1: created or helped popularize something that that you use regularly,

926
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 1: that you ingest regularly. And that's like, you can't say

927
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:35,400
Speaker 1: that about Hitler, Like overall, right, it doesn't matter that

928
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 1: it's the brand is just at a certain point, it's

929
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:40,680
Speaker 1: just a brand. And then you're back and think, I

930
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:45,719
Speaker 1: don't know, Kelly, genital mutilation, that's serials, cereal, you're not

931
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:48,840
Speaker 1: cutting up people because there's even like that movie The

932
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:53,239
Speaker 1: Road to Wellville, Yeah in the nineties, that's like such

933
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 1: a like I remember, Yeah, they left a lot of

934
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 1: part out that whole thing were really weird. They didn't

935
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 1: include him abusing children. Yeah, yeah, it's just but yeah,

936
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 1: but that's I think, Yeah, we just have this blind

937
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 1: spot for certain ship at times, or maybe they did

938
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:13,479
Speaker 1: see him like we can't do that. It doesn't matter

939
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 1: because nobody knows about podcasts yet where someone will take

940
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:18,759
Speaker 1: the time to research this and it's you know, it's

941
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 1: fucking um. It wasn't easy to research this. It's not

942
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 1: easy to read it to you. Nobody on the call

943
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 1: was having a good time during the portion of the episode.

944
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 1: I expect a decent number of listeners for perfectly reasonable

945
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,399
Speaker 1: reason will be like, I can't, I can't do this. Yeah,

946
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't do it, Like whereas a funny

947
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:39,799
Speaker 1: video of a funny movie about cereal man has an

948
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 1: issue with that and thus things get whitewashed and it

949
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:46,439
Speaker 1: has you know, modern consequences. Right now, there's a bunch

950
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 1: of bills being debated and I think some of even

951
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 1: being passed that will allow doctors to like act with

952
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 1: their conscience and refused to treat LGBT people. And it's

953
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 1: the same thing the idea that medicine and morality can

954
00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 1: be tied. They shouldn't be exactly like morality and medicine.

955
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 1: It means doing your best to alleviate and treat the

956
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 1: symptoms and and and illnesses of your patients, right like

957
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:10,359
Speaker 1: morality in medicine means nothing more than doing your best

958
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 1: to ensure the health of the people who come to

959
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:15,919
Speaker 1: you for treatment. Your personal opinion shouldn't matter what being

960
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 1: a doctor is. Well, but sometimes you're like, oh, I'm

961
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 1: a monster that you need to use the occupation. Actually, yeah,

962
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:26,400
Speaker 1: i'm a monster. I'm just smart and I'm so cunning

963
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 1: that I realized this is the profession. I need to

964
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 1: get in proximity of people to do what I do.

965
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 1: I think when that guy wrote people first, do no harm,

966
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:40,360
Speaker 1: what he meant was cut up little boys and girls, right, yeah,

967
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:44,240
Speaker 1: uh yeah. And again the reverberations just in our culture.

968
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:49,080
Speaker 1: You know, it's like everywhere, this same mentality of punishing

969
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:53,279
Speaker 1: for getting close to being liberated or understanding something or

970
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 1: something that's counter to what has been biblically preached, um,

971
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 1: and how that leads to just the absolute dehumanization of people.

972
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:04,359
Speaker 1: And like we're still it echoes in the same way

973
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:06,640
Speaker 1: as like you know, slavery does in certain ways of

974
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 1: white supremacy, that if your medicine is was entrenched in

975
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 1: religion like this on some level, that's not going to

976
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:17,279
Speaker 1: still be you know, part of the culture. We're having

977
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 1: a reckoning with ye but I mean yogurt. Yeah, honestly,

978
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 1: I need to know how much and if there was

979
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:27,840
Speaker 1: like if he was he was he cutting the yogurt.

980
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:32,360
Speaker 1: He's telling his pure yogurt, But was he cutting you

981
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 1: know what? Was he pouring in some cocaine with the

982
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 1: yogurt to wear steing? Hey doc, I heard you're stepping

983
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 1: on my yogurt. With buttermell uh. So. Yeah. There were

984
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 1: a number of other significant positive developments that Dr Kellogg

985
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:52,759
Speaker 1: and his sanitarium played a major role in. They were

986
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 1: probably the first major business to make calorie counts and

987
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:59,240
Speaker 1: nutrition facts available for all of the meals they served.

988
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 1: This would be decades before the practice was mandated in

989
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:04,960
Speaker 1: the United States. John Harvey was also a philanthropist. In

990
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:08,880
Speaker 1: three he decided to expand his operation into Chicago. The

991
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 1: city police chief advised him to set up his new

992
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:14,840
Speaker 1: sanitarium and quote the dirtiest and wickedest place in the city,

993
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 1: So he built it in a slum that was heavily

994
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 1: populated by impoverished black people. Um. But the satellite facility

995
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 1: included a free pharmacy and clinic, free baths, free laundry,

996
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 1: and evening school for Chinese language students, and a visiting

997
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:31,480
Speaker 1: nurses service. His cafeteria offered a penny lunch service and

998
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:34,120
Speaker 1: fed an estimated five D six hundred people a day.

999
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 1: So it wasn't all mutilation. You know, free clinics are

1000
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 1: good free, well, I don't know. His free clinic is

1001
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 1: a mixed bag. Free laundry is good, right, Yeah, I'm sure,

1002
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 1: I'm sure he had very evolved ideas on bi racial

1003
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 1: We're getting there. Yeah, I was gonna say, I can

1004
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:58,560
Speaker 1: can you imagine what this fucking guys doing, being like

1005
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna service this immunity, Like, We're getting there, buddy.

1006
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 1: The success of the sanitarium swelled Dr Kellogg's ego and

1007
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:10,040
Speaker 1: led to conflicts with his church. By some accounts, his

1008
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 1: break with Ellen White and the Seventh day Adventist faith

1009
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 1: started when he caught Sister White eating a piece of

1010
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 1: fried chicken. Um. The conflicts between the two of them

1011
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:19,920
Speaker 1: went on for years and are more complex than I

1012
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 1: can easily summarize, but a lot of it has to

1013
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 1: do with Kellogg's occasional embrace of the scientific method. The

1014
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 1: bottom line is that he allowed his scientific beliefs to

1015
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 1: sometimes contradict the teachings of his prophet. He was accused

1016
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:35,240
Speaker 1: of blasphemy and this fellowship in nineteen o seven. One

1017
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:37,800
Speaker 1: of the beliefs that got Kellogg and trouble was a

1018
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 1: partial acceptance of evolutionary theory. Unfortunately for everyone, John Harvey's

1019
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 1: embrace of evolution was mainly a corollary to his embrace

1020
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:48,760
Speaker 1: of eugenics. From a wonderful and comprehensive write up in

1021
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:52,920
Speaker 1: Dr Kellogg's own local paper, The Battle Creek Inquirer. Quote

1022
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 1: kellogg support of eugenics was tepid to begin with, likely

1023
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 1: due to eugenicss ties to Darwinism, and his connection to

1024
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:02,120
Speaker 1: the Seventh Day Adventist Church, which teaches a literal interpretation

1025
00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 1: if the sixth day, sixth day creation story in Genesis.

1026
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 1: It wasn't until his break from the church in n

1027
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 1: seven that he began to truly embrace the ideas. Kellog

1028
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 1: combined his belief in eugenics his the improvement of human

1029
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 1: functioning by improvement of living conditions to come up with

1030
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 1: his own brand of eugenics he referred to as race betterment,

1031
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:24,360
Speaker 1: the things he had advocated avoiding through his biologic living

1032
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:30,800
Speaker 1: meat and alcohol redeemed race poisons. Race, that's some Nazi

1033
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 1: ship poisons, race betterment, race poisons, of course, that's what

1034
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, like, it's so, honestly, is he

1035
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:45,200
Speaker 1: one of the I'll let you go on, But I'm like,

1036
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 1: I wonder, deep down, we would have been fine if

1037
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 1: this motherfucker died, Like we would have been absolutely somebody

1038
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 1: was going to give us. Somebody was going to figure

1039
00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:58,800
Speaker 1: out serial Yeah, he figured out the acid ship with

1040
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 1: some other dude. Yeah, you know what I mean, I

1041
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:04,720
Speaker 1: would have figured that out with that. You know what,

1042
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 1: this is such like you know it? Fuck, you know,

1043
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:13,560
Speaker 1: you're not special. Getting into the fact that he basically

1044
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:16,480
Speaker 1: created the cultural space for guys like Dr Fell and

1045
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 1: Doctor Oz to the celebrity doctors, he's a big bay

1046
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:24,640
Speaker 1: that as well. You know, um, not the only race betterment,

1047
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 1: race betterment, race poisons races. Oh thank you, yeah baby,

1048
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 1: to save these people. Now, yeah, it's interesting that that

1049
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 1: last line I just read was basically word for word

1050
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 1: Nazi propaganda, because Dr Kellogg was not a Nazi. Now,

1051
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 1: the precise nature of his racism is fascinating to puzzle out.

1052
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:49,840
Speaker 1: He is a We can talk a bit about the

1053
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 1: kind of racist that he is. He's an interesting kind

1054
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 1: of racist, say that. Yeah. Yeah. Dr Brian Wilson, who

1055
01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:00,000
Speaker 1: wrote the book that was a major source for Part one,

1056
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 1: seemed to have seems to have framed his bigotry as

1057
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 1: a natural evolution of his theories on biologic living. He

1058
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 1: saw selective breeding as the same thing as avoiding meat

1059
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 1: and masturbation. Quote. Overall, Kellogg was worried about the ultimate

1060
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:16,520
Speaker 1: fate of the human race. Kellogg believed quote, if we

1061
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 1: continue on with our bad habits, we would eventually become

1062
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:21,840
Speaker 1: extinct potentially. So there was this larger issue of the

1063
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 1: human race. But if you drill down a little bit

1064
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:26,280
Speaker 1: more in his public statements, it's pretty clear that he

1065
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:30,240
Speaker 1: was really concerned about the white race. John Harpey agreed

1066
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 1: with Teddy Roosevelt that white people were committing race suicide

1067
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:37,720
Speaker 1: by allowing inferior races into the country. These races included

1068
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 1: Black and Asian people, but also people from the bad

1069
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:44,040
Speaker 1: parts of Europe, like Italy. In the nineteen teens, Kellogg

1070
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 1: melded a warning against race mixing into his theory of

1071
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:50,720
Speaker 1: biologic living. The Battle Creek Choirer notes that his beliefs

1072
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:52,960
Speaker 1: on eugenics were often at odds with how he ran

1073
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:55,240
Speaker 1: his business in personal life, which is part of why

1074
01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:58,680
Speaker 1: I think he's an interesting kind of racist. Quote. He

1075
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:02,360
Speaker 1: rejected segregation of blacks at the at his sanitarium, where

1076
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 1: African American doctors and nurses were trained. He and his

1077
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:08,520
Speaker 1: wife Ella Eaton fostered more than forty children, among them

1078
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 1: African Americans and children from Latin America. Kellogg took great

1079
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:15,240
Speaker 1: care of sojourn or truth during her visits to the sanitarium,

1080
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:18,080
Speaker 1: reportedly grafting some of his own skin to her leg

1081
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 1: to treat an ulcer, and he personally invited Booker T.

1082
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:24,240
Speaker 1: Washington to visit as a guest in nineteen ten. So

1083
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:26,160
Speaker 1: again that's not how do you ever see on that

1084
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:33,160
Speaker 1: skin graph? I desinitely some pre internet you could be like,

1085
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:36,760
Speaker 1: you know, I got your skin disjournal treat so I'm not.

1086
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:40,960
Speaker 1: I literally put my skin on her. I took my

1087
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:44,680
Speaker 1: skin and donated it. I mean, the point when I

1088
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 1: say he's not a Nazi isn't to like whitewash him

1089
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:49,880
Speaker 1: at all, is to say that, like, you can be

1090
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:54,200
Speaker 1: extremely racist, did not be a Nazi like Teddy Roosevelt.

1091
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:58,560
Speaker 1: Not a Nazi monster, you know, just because it's not.

1092
01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:02,560
Speaker 1: It's because the hate is warped in this weird you

1093
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:06,080
Speaker 1: know betterment exactly your bedroom. Oh no, I'm not saying

1094
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:08,800
Speaker 1: I'm saying it's racist. That I'm saying you're flawed to

1095
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 1: begin with. And then what I'm saying is I'm hopeful

1096
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:16,560
Speaker 1: for you we can make your race better, not as

1097
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:18,960
Speaker 1: good at white people, but better as opposed to Nazis

1098
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:21,080
Speaker 1: who say we should exterminate you. I mean, if you

1099
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:23,240
Speaker 1: guys would stay off that race poison. And I think

1100
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:26,360
Speaker 1: that's what that other facility is for. Even though he's

1101
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:30,919
Speaker 1: running it, he's observing and collected data, and I'm sure

1102
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:34,600
Speaker 1: that's for him. It's not really it says nothing charitable

1103
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 1: about it, Like there's clearly something that yes, he'll be like, well,

1104
01:03:37,560 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 1: it's fine outwardly that it's a help, but really I'm

1105
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:45,560
Speaker 1: here to make observations that reinforce my racist worldview. Yes, yes,

1106
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:48,840
Speaker 1: and yeah, it's one of those things. Yes, he was

1107
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:51,520
Speaker 1: a he was a monstrous bigot. Um. He wrote in

1108
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 1: nineteen o two, quote, the intellectual inferiority of the Negro

1109
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 1: mail to the European mail is universally acknowledged. This guy

1110
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:02,200
Speaker 1: you knew book or T Washington it um, Yeah, you

1111
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:03,880
Speaker 1: know what, you know what you know who book or T.

1112
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:12,919
Speaker 1: Washington was smarter than the guy who thought sleep was poison. Yeah,

1113
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 1: I mean this is, but like it's also like the

1114
01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 1: you know, dawn of like this insidious sort of you know,

1115
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:23,720
Speaker 1: will later be like deracialized concerned troll racism, because it's

1116
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:28,000
Speaker 1: still the same thing. Even though you're not espousing violence

1117
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:30,960
Speaker 1: to begin with it. When you start from there, the

1118
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:35,760
Speaker 1: premises violent, that's where it's just like, come like really though,

1119
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:42,240
Speaker 1: the Race Betterment Foundation, come on, yeah, the Race Betterment Foundation. Yeah. Now,

1120
01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 1: under Kellogg and under his Race Betterment Foundation, the Sanitarium

1121
01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:50,680
Speaker 1: would actually play host to three international eugenics conferences. At these,

1122
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:55,720
Speaker 1: Kellogg advocated for eugenics registry nationwide that could be used

1123
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 1: to establish what he called racial thoroughbreads. He advised p

1124
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:02,760
Speaker 1: well to consult medical records to determine their racial makeup

1125
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:06,040
Speaker 1: before getting married. And like all eugenicists, he supported the

1126
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:11,520
Speaker 1: sterilization of defectives, including criminals. Under his advisement, the Michigan

1127
01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:15,360
Speaker 1: State Legislature passed Public Act thirty four, which authorized the

1128
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:19,760
Speaker 1: sterilization of quote defective persons. Under this law, at least

1129
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:23,800
Speaker 1: thirty eight hundred people were involuntarily sterilized. When I guess

1130
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:26,840
Speaker 1: what that law was repealed, Miles, probably not to like

1131
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:29,479
Speaker 1: the last thirty years at at Night Teams seventy four.

1132
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:33,919
Speaker 1: I guess we did better than you thought. Yeah, yeah,

1133
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:36,360
Speaker 1: because it's so I mean, and again that's another thing

1134
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:39,479
Speaker 1: that look, how long the fucking takes like something that's

1135
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:43,840
Speaker 1: so on its face disgusting that it's like, yeah, oh yeah,

1136
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:46,880
Speaker 1: we should probably stop doing that. But then also thinking

1137
01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:50,120
Speaker 1: of how like even you know, women and especially women

1138
01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:53,560
Speaker 1: of color, the pain thresholds are not taken seriously by

1139
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:56,960
Speaker 1: doctors to this day, And you think, oh wow, because

1140
01:05:57,040 --> 01:06:02,919
Speaker 1: we were fucking yipping with doctor corn Funk over here.

1141
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:05,880
Speaker 1: Dr corn Funk, I mean I don't I'm not enough.

1142
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:07,919
Speaker 1: I'm not an expert on Dr Kellogg, so I don't

1143
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:09,920
Speaker 1: know if he ever, like we talked liter earlyer, he

1144
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:12,080
Speaker 1: definitely thought that if you are giving someone like a

1145
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:15,640
Speaker 1: surgery to stop masturbation, you shouldn't use pain medication because

1146
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:20,400
Speaker 1: it's a healthy punishment. I wonder if maybe some of

1147
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:22,640
Speaker 1: the belief that you don't need to give black people

1148
01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:25,800
Speaker 1: the same amount of pain killers was rooted in that

1149
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:28,640
Speaker 1: idea too, that idea of like, well, if they're unhealthy,

1150
01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:30,920
Speaker 1: it's their fault and we should correct them by not

1151
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:33,680
Speaker 1: I I have no idea, or it's just a habit

1152
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 1: that becomes like culture, a cultural norm within medicine, with

1153
01:06:37,120 --> 01:06:40,080
Speaker 1: no examination of what that actually means. It's like this,

1154
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:42,800
Speaker 1: that's why it takes people so long to fucking like

1155
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:45,880
Speaker 1: stop for a second and look at your patterns and

1156
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:47,800
Speaker 1: be like, oh, ship, where is this from? What does

1157
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:51,360
Speaker 1: this mean? But so many people are unwilling to do that. Yep.

1158
01:06:51,880 --> 01:06:53,640
Speaker 1: I mean, it's one of those things. And it gets

1159
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:58,000
Speaker 1: so deeply because like black doctors under prescribe pain killers

1160
01:06:58,040 --> 01:07:00,680
Speaker 1: to black patients, just like black ops when they do

1161
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:02,680
Speaker 1: these like they'll have these games were like you have

1162
01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:05,840
Speaker 1: to shoot someone who There's like a bunch of people

1163
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:08,120
Speaker 1: flash on the screen. Some have guns, some don't. Black

1164
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:11,600
Speaker 1: cops are more likely to shoot unarmed black people, like

1165
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 1: then they're unarmed white people. It's just like that's how

1166
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:18,080
Speaker 1: it works because mental colonization and internalized white supremacy, you

1167
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:20,360
Speaker 1: know what I mean, that's what it does. It's it's

1168
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:25,960
Speaker 1: that's how fucking pervasive it is. Yep, yep. The conferences

1169
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:29,760
Speaker 1: that Dr Kellogg held were bizarre affairs. One featured booker T. Washington,

1170
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:32,160
Speaker 1: who gave a speech on the Negro race to a

1171
01:07:32,200 --> 01:07:35,040
Speaker 1: white audience where he begged for equal treatment and argued

1172
01:07:35,080 --> 01:07:38,160
Speaker 1: for the common humanity of all men. At the same event,

1173
01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:41,720
Speaker 1: John Harvey Kellogg said this, if the human race is degenerating,

1174
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:44,720
Speaker 1: then we should know it. We should let the people know,

1175
01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:47,960
Speaker 1: and we should see what ought to be done about it. Okay,

1176
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:51,040
Speaker 1: this isn't climate change, motherfucker. Yeah no, I bet it

1177
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:53,120
Speaker 1: wouldn't have believed in climate change the way he said

1178
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:55,360
Speaker 1: the other thing before that. Yeah, he said he said

1179
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:58,280
Speaker 1: that before Booker T. Washington got on. So book Or

1180
01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:02,680
Speaker 1: T goes on on his friend, Yeah, and gives a

1181
01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:05,720
Speaker 1: speech that seems to have mostly been about being like, hey,

1182
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:08,720
Speaker 1: if you if you like, help black people out. We

1183
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:12,760
Speaker 1: we can contribute to society. We're Americans too, like we

1184
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:14,840
Speaker 1: want to we want to contribute to the country, but

1185
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:18,160
Speaker 1: we need to like not be as as horribly abused

1186
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:20,880
Speaker 1: by the system as we currently are, right because y'all

1187
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:25,559
Speaker 1: aren't past slavery still, so that we're still getting this version. Yeah,

1188
01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:28,000
Speaker 1: and that was the same thing where I mean, I

1189
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:30,920
Speaker 1: guess he got booked by Kellogg. But Kellogg went on

1190
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:32,679
Speaker 1: to talk about, like we have to talk about racial

1191
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:36,040
Speaker 1: degeneracy and race poison and race mixing. It. It's weird.

1192
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:38,439
Speaker 1: He's like I said, he's a weird kind of racist,

1193
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:41,120
Speaker 1: but he's definitely a racist, yeah, because he's just all

1194
01:08:41,160 --> 01:08:42,920
Speaker 1: over the place. But he's just like because he's just

1195
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:46,679
Speaker 1: he's a concerned roll racist, he's and he's Yeah, there's

1196
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:48,320
Speaker 1: some ways I know that you mentioned that where he

1197
01:08:48,400 --> 01:08:50,840
Speaker 1: is a lot like the modern racist to be like, well, no,

1198
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:53,160
Speaker 1: I have look at my black friend, like I'm advocating

1199
01:08:53,200 --> 01:08:55,679
Speaker 1: against white genocide, but I have I'm friends with Ali

1200
01:08:55,760 --> 01:09:00,120
Speaker 1: Alexander whoever, Like like, yeah, maybe maybe he was just

1201
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:03,760
Speaker 1: the first, Like really, post Nazi white supremacists first got

1202
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:05,640
Speaker 1: to figure it out, like no, you can't do all that,

1203
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:09,920
Speaker 1: you can't look at that, you gotta be like no, well,

1204
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:16,479
Speaker 1: all all I'm saying is maybe the white race is degenerating, okay,

1205
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:19,200
Speaker 1: and maybe we need to look at that and then

1206
01:09:19,280 --> 01:09:22,679
Speaker 1: maybe then we can figure out what to do about that.

1207
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:24,760
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. I'm just saying what

1208
01:09:24,760 --> 01:09:29,120
Speaker 1: do I know? Well, fucking just demonic fuck. And I

1209
01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:33,080
Speaker 1: will say there were other eugenicists in this period Nazis

1210
01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:34,599
Speaker 1: who were saying similar things. So I'm not gonna say

1211
01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:37,720
Speaker 1: Kellogg was the first person, but he definitely not. Like

1212
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:39,639
Speaker 1: now that the more I think about it, the more

1213
01:09:39,840 --> 01:09:45,240
Speaker 1: his racism feels extremely modern to me, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1214
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:48,760
Speaker 1: you're right. The First Race Betterment Conference, which is what

1215
01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:54,000
Speaker 1: these These events were called included a Better Babies contest,

1216
01:09:54,280 --> 01:09:58,880
Speaker 1: where five thousand children were inspected, measured, and judged based

1217
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:04,960
Speaker 1: on their purported race characteristics. Wait, someone listening is going

1218
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:08,599
Speaker 1: to have a great grandparent who won the Better Babies contest,

1219
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:13,400
Speaker 1: And I'm excited to learn that, like a fucking Westminster

1220
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:16,760
Speaker 1: Abbey dog show. Yeah, it seems like it like it's

1221
01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:18,760
Speaker 1: you know what it sounds kind of like is that?

1222
01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:21,880
Speaker 1: Um uh, I think you should leave the sketch where

1223
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:25,200
Speaker 1: they have the baby off the Year award, but you're

1224
01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:27,880
Speaker 1: saying they're using but it was all kinds of different

1225
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:32,000
Speaker 1: races of babies. Yeah, where they were like assess, yeah,

1226
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:34,760
Speaker 1: how well they write so like a dog show. So

1227
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:40,760
Speaker 1: there's breed of human being based on my physiognomy chart here, Uh,

1228
01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:44,720
Speaker 1: this is what this? He's got the perfect Nordic lips. Yeah,

1229
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:48,679
Speaker 1: what the fuck? Yeah. The conference was a huge success,

1230
01:10:48,720 --> 01:10:50,920
Speaker 1: which convinced Kellog that he needed to host the next

1231
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:53,840
Speaker 1: one on the West coast because eugenics didn't really catch

1232
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:55,519
Speaker 1: on on the West coast the same way did on

1233
01:10:55,560 --> 01:10:58,600
Speaker 1: the East coast. Um, which I guess it's good for

1234
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:05,720
Speaker 1: the West coast. Yeah, congratulations California. We just have Yeah,

1235
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:12,000
Speaker 1: it's a little bit different here, it's the same brand,

1236
01:11:12,280 --> 01:11:15,760
Speaker 1: different style. The conference was hosted in San Francisco, and

1237
01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:17,800
Speaker 1: it was part of a wider effort by Kellogg to

1238
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:21,160
Speaker 1: inculcate his eugenic ideas throughout the nation. As time went on,

1239
01:11:21,240 --> 01:11:24,439
Speaker 1: he grew into more of a hardliner, increasingly committed to

1240
01:11:24,479 --> 01:11:28,880
Speaker 1: sterilization and segregation. Gradually he fell behind the times, do

1241
01:11:29,080 --> 01:11:32,320
Speaker 1: largely to a little thing cold World War two, coming

1242
01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:35,800
Speaker 1: face to face with Nazi ideology, which was inspired in

1243
01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:39,200
Speaker 1: large part by American eugenicists like Kellogg, led to a

1244
01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 1: collapse in American support for eugenics. You see the Nazis

1245
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:45,120
Speaker 1: doing Nazi ships saying the same thing American eugenicists are,

1246
01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:47,320
Speaker 1: And suddenly a lot of people are like, oh, you

1247
01:11:47,360 --> 01:11:51,759
Speaker 1: know what, Wait, maybe this is bad. Wait a second,

1248
01:11:52,120 --> 01:11:55,080
Speaker 1: hey man, this you this you It looks like this

1249
01:11:55,200 --> 01:12:01,080
Speaker 1: ends with people in ovens reconsider something. Maybe if we

1250
01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:07,920
Speaker 1: just look around, our race is deteriorating and maybe there's

1251
01:12:07,960 --> 01:12:12,240
Speaker 1: a problem we need a solution to. I'm just saying,

1252
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:16,639
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, seems like it inevitably leads there. Now.

1253
01:12:16,680 --> 01:12:19,080
Speaker 1: Harvey Kellogg was also a very old man by the

1254
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:21,680
Speaker 1: upbreak of the war, but Nazism did not change his

1255
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:25,000
Speaker 1: opinions on eugenics whatsoever. He grew only more convinced that

1256
01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:28,320
Speaker 1: Christian civilization was at risk and that the white races

1257
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:31,000
Speaker 1: were on the edge of genocide. He wrote in nineteen

1258
01:12:31,040 --> 01:12:34,600
Speaker 1: forty two that he believed God quote, working through eugenics

1259
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:38,040
Speaker 1: and the marvelous germ plasm, which is like sperm, may

1260
01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:40,280
Speaker 1: save the race and even improve it. So he had

1261
01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:43,080
Speaker 1: faith that eventually people would figure out how to save

1262
01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:46,320
Speaker 1: the white race. Kellop was in the middle of planning capitalism.

1263
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:50,800
Speaker 1: He was in the middle of planning his fourth Race

1264
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:54,639
Speaker 1: Betterment Conference set for June of nineteen forty two when

1265
01:12:54,720 --> 01:12:58,360
Speaker 1: Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. The conference was canceled, and so

1266
01:12:58,479 --> 01:13:01,559
Speaker 1: too was John Harvey Kellogg his own life. He died

1267
01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:05,679
Speaker 1: on December in Battle Creek, Michigan. He died, of course,

1268
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:08,360
Speaker 1: a virgin, despite being married for more than forty years.

1269
01:13:08,439 --> 01:13:11,320
Speaker 1: John Harvey Kellogg brag that he had never actually consummated

1270
01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:13,839
Speaker 1: his marriage. So if I had to pick one purely

1271
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:16,600
Speaker 1: good thing about his life, I'd say at least he

1272
01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:21,519
Speaker 1: didn't breed mm hmm, wow. True but fuck if he

1273
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:30,439
Speaker 1: didn't completely funk up kids. Amazing, one of the worst

1274
01:13:30,479 --> 01:13:33,439
Speaker 1: people we've ever talked about. When is there, like, you know,

1275
01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:36,400
Speaker 1: some kind of reckoning do they just say, oh, it's

1276
01:13:36,439 --> 01:13:38,760
Speaker 1: it's actually named after his brother. You can go to

1277
01:13:38,800 --> 01:13:40,880
Speaker 1: any grocery store in the country and see his name

1278
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:42,920
Speaker 1: all over the place. You know what I mean. I

1279
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:45,280
Speaker 1: guess you can also think that his brother hated him,

1280
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:46,960
Speaker 1: and he would have hated the fact that those are

1281
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:49,559
Speaker 1: now filled with sugars, So I guess that's good. Like

1282
01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:52,679
Speaker 1: John Harvey Kellogg would be horrifically disgusted by the fact

1283
01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:56,680
Speaker 1: that his legacy is now incredibly sugar like candy for

1284
01:13:56,880 --> 01:14:00,520
Speaker 1: children to eat in the morning and and mash surbation

1285
01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:04,240
Speaker 1: is through the roof. If masturbation is at an all

1286
01:14:04,439 --> 01:14:08,920
Speaker 1: time hot, if he thinks sleeping comfortably and eating spice,

1287
01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:11,439
Speaker 1: I'm gonna, you know what, tonight, I'm gonna eat the

1288
01:14:11,479 --> 01:14:15,559
Speaker 1: hottest fucking thing I can imagine masturbate on the most

1289
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:19,719
Speaker 1: comfortable bed. Yeah, all of you at home, come and curry.

1290
01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:23,479
Speaker 1: In order to really really fully shame Dr James Hart,

1291
01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:28,160
Speaker 1: break his break his undead spirit eats spice, come hard.

1292
01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:33,519
Speaker 1: That's a T shirt. There you go. You're welcome, snice,

1293
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:37,680
Speaker 1: come hard exactly, this big middle finger to him. Can

1294
01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:39,720
Speaker 1: we put come on a T shirt, Sophie, that's a

1295
01:14:39,760 --> 01:14:49,280
Speaker 1: loaded question? Yeah, loads, Uh, I feel like not. I

1296
01:14:49,280 --> 01:14:51,960
Speaker 1: think we do it, eat spice, come hard exactly and

1297
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:53,920
Speaker 1: now and now because I think that's the next thing

1298
01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:57,080
Speaker 1: is come as an accepted thing on a shirt you are.

1299
01:14:58,040 --> 01:15:01,799
Speaker 1: That's how that's our little act rebellion against John Harvey Kellog.

1300
01:15:01,960 --> 01:15:03,880
Speaker 1: If I had a time machine, top of my list

1301
01:15:03,960 --> 01:15:07,439
Speaker 1: now would be to get uh like to archive a

1302
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:10,320
Speaker 1: bunch of Red Tube videos along with information and how

1303
01:15:10,320 --> 01:15:12,680
Speaker 1: many hundreds of millions of views that it gets in

1304
01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:15,439
Speaker 1: a year and just present those both like, hey, John,

1305
01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 1: in the future, more people than exist on the world

1306
01:15:18,160 --> 01:15:21,120
Speaker 1: right now are masturbating on just this one website. Buddy,

1307
01:15:21,360 --> 01:15:24,360
Speaker 1: you lose that war. And I would bring a fucking

1308
01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:29,400
Speaker 1: like a military foot locker filled with sex toys. Yeah yeah,

1309
01:15:29,479 --> 01:15:33,519
Speaker 1: just like, First of all, dude, this thing this is tenda.

1310
01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:35,599
Speaker 1: You ever heard of a tenda? All right? So this

1311
01:15:35,640 --> 01:15:38,400
Speaker 1: is from Japan and you might remember them from Pearl Harbor.

1312
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:42,640
Speaker 1: So they got so this is some really sick technology.

1313
01:15:42,760 --> 01:15:44,840
Speaker 1: This is another one you can use your app. Hold on,

1314
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:48,160
Speaker 1: I've even shown you the VR goggles yet, motherfucker. Like

1315
01:15:49,120 --> 01:15:52,200
Speaker 1: who knows. It's just this is a plastic butt that

1316
01:15:52,280 --> 01:15:54,920
Speaker 1: people make just to have sex with. You can buy it.

1317
01:15:55,160 --> 01:15:57,559
Speaker 1: You can. There's two different stores that sell them within

1318
01:15:57,640 --> 01:16:00,559
Speaker 1: walking distance of my house. You can. And if you

1319
01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:03,680
Speaker 1: want to make a mold of your genitals and have

1320
01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:08,599
Speaker 1: it replicated mid millions of times like a fucking you know,

1321
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:12,880
Speaker 1: like the Guttenberg Press. You know what people did with

1322
01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:16,880
Speaker 1: the Bible in your day, they do it with genitals

1323
01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:20,920
Speaker 1: in the future. People are so horny John Harvey that

1324
01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:23,519
Speaker 1: when a boat got stuck in the Suez Canal, you

1325
01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:25,519
Speaker 1: you know the Suez Canal, it's do in your day,

1326
01:16:25,560 --> 01:16:28,120
Speaker 1: when a boat got stuck in it, people immediately turned

1327
01:16:28,160 --> 01:16:32,040
Speaker 1: the boat in the porn. Yeah, exactly, straight off the bat,

1328
01:16:32,160 --> 01:16:34,559
Speaker 1: John Harvey. That's how it works. Yeah. It's funny. When

1329
01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:38,799
Speaker 1: you search Kellogg's for the Wikipedia page, it's will Keith Kellogg,

1330
01:16:39,120 --> 01:16:41,519
Speaker 1: who which makes sense because he did steal the idea,

1331
01:16:42,040 --> 01:16:44,320
Speaker 1: But then they can't avoid in the first sentence that

1332
01:16:44,400 --> 01:16:46,880
Speaker 1: it is his brother. John Harvey. Kellogg became blah blah

1333
01:16:46,880 --> 01:16:50,479
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. So yeah, what a fucking yeah, you know,

1334
01:16:50,600 --> 01:16:52,600
Speaker 1: it's like everything there's so many corporate like just like

1335
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:55,240
Speaker 1: every fucking bank you know has had to deal in

1336
01:16:55,320 --> 01:16:58,640
Speaker 1: slave money, but everything bank at some point supported the

1337
01:16:58,720 --> 01:17:01,599
Speaker 1: nazis pretty Yeah, it's just what you know, like, this

1338
01:17:01,640 --> 01:17:03,400
Speaker 1: is where we're at that they can people like, I

1339
01:17:03,400 --> 01:17:05,439
Speaker 1: don't know, it's a want. Look, it's just a serial now.

1340
01:17:05,479 --> 01:17:08,160
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean in some ways you could you

1341
01:17:08,160 --> 01:17:11,320
Speaker 1: could say that Kelloggs is his legacy is less fucked

1342
01:17:11,360 --> 01:17:13,679
Speaker 1: up than the banks because there was a split over,

1343
01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:16,479
Speaker 1: like like the reason the Kellogg's company became what it

1344
01:17:16,560 --> 01:17:22,760
Speaker 1: is is his brother fucking hated him, right, so that's good. Yeah, Yeah, anyway, Yeah,

1345
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:26,880
Speaker 1: we're what's what's JP Morgan? What's his? Uh? What's John

1346
01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:30,479
Speaker 1: Pierre Morgan's brother? Like, Oh, I don't know, but did

1347
01:17:30,479 --> 01:17:32,599
Speaker 1: you have a brother? Morgan Jr. Was a big part

1348
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:37,160
Speaker 1: of the fascist attempt to overthrow the business blotto. Yeah,

1349
01:17:37,360 --> 01:17:39,920
Speaker 1: what a time, what a time, good times we're heading

1350
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:42,240
Speaker 1: And again you have a bunch of people, in their

1351
01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:46,519
Speaker 1: own way, found their own attempt to try and steer

1352
01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:49,000
Speaker 1: the whatever the fucking course was of this country based

1353
01:17:49,040 --> 01:17:54,160
Speaker 1: on what these fucked up ideas they had, uh, yikes,

1354
01:17:54,200 --> 01:17:57,320
Speaker 1: a lesson to be learned. Perhaps, Yeah, you know, Miles,

1355
01:17:59,800 --> 01:18:02,400
Speaker 1: I guess if I had one last request for our listeners.

1356
01:18:03,120 --> 01:18:06,040
Speaker 1: I know a few of you were great artists. What

1357
01:18:06,160 --> 01:18:10,880
Speaker 1: we could really use is some just filthy John Harvey

1358
01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:15,880
Speaker 1: Kellogg themed pornography, just absolutely depraved. And by depraved, I

1359
01:18:15,880 --> 01:18:18,400
Speaker 1: mean him having missionary style sex with the woman he

1360
01:18:18,479 --> 01:18:22,800
Speaker 1: was married to for decades. It's him, it's him masturbating

1361
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:27,439
Speaker 1: by candle light. Yeah, yeah, John Harvey Kellogg masturbating by

1362
01:18:27,520 --> 01:18:34,519
Speaker 1: candle light to I don't know, the crucible. What fucking bastards.

1363
01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:37,200
Speaker 1: You've done it again, Robert, you've done it again. How

1364
01:18:37,280 --> 01:18:42,839
Speaker 1: you doing, Miles? How you doing? Sophie? I hate my life.

1365
01:18:44,120 --> 01:18:46,160
Speaker 1: This was a rough one, right, this was a real

1366
01:18:46,240 --> 01:18:48,960
Speaker 1: bad one. Yeah, I mean, but you know this is again,

1367
01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:51,240
Speaker 1: this is These are the things. I think that's that's

1368
01:18:51,240 --> 01:18:54,200
Speaker 1: the benefit of this show, you know, like, yeah, if

1369
01:18:54,320 --> 01:18:57,280
Speaker 1: you have to really look back and know how bad

1370
01:18:57,400 --> 01:19:00,639
Speaker 1: ship was truly to be able to us work, give

1371
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:03,280
Speaker 1: yourself some context, you know what I mean, And to

1372
01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:06,879
Speaker 1: know like how people move and operate in the social

1373
01:19:06,960 --> 01:19:11,400
Speaker 1: forces they used to justify and popularize their methods. Yep,

1374
01:19:11,600 --> 01:19:14,120
Speaker 1: and I I don't know. Some great news just on

1375
01:19:14,160 --> 01:19:16,559
Speaker 1: that front today for the first time, a gallop pole

1376
01:19:16,640 --> 01:19:19,200
Speaker 1: just reviewed us membership in a church, synagogue or mosque

1377
01:19:19,240 --> 01:19:24,000
Speaker 1: has fallen below Only scent of millennials belong to a church.

1378
01:19:24,400 --> 01:19:28,520
Speaker 1: And of course the drop in religious affiliation is directly

1379
01:19:28,600 --> 01:19:31,400
Speaker 1: correlated with the rise in support for same sex marriage,

1380
01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:34,120
Speaker 1: and one has to assume the rise and support for

1381
01:19:34,240 --> 01:19:39,599
Speaker 1: master baiting. Yeah exactly where generation come? Yeah? Generation come.

1382
01:19:45,160 --> 01:19:47,960
Speaker 1: That's a t shirt John Harvey Kellogg masturbating to the

1383
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:51,320
Speaker 1: Crucible by candle light with generation come right on. That's

1384
01:19:51,400 --> 01:19:58,600
Speaker 1: busy or just some dog tax generation. Let's make it

1385
01:19:58,640 --> 01:20:02,280
Speaker 1: happen people. All right, Well, Miles, you got any plug

1386
01:20:02,360 --> 01:20:06,599
Speaker 1: doubles man, just check out the podcast Daily's like Geist

1387
01:20:06,640 --> 01:20:09,360
Speaker 1: and also look, if if you want something that isn't

1388
01:20:09,360 --> 01:20:12,000
Speaker 1: tied to maybe the news and politics, check out the

1389
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:16,280
Speaker 1: other podcast four twenty Day Fiance. We're talking about ninety

1390
01:20:16,320 --> 01:20:21,080
Speaker 1: day Fiance. But you know, like hi, so yeah, just

1391
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:24,240
Speaker 1: chill with Sophia Alexandra, you know, one of the one

1392
01:20:24,280 --> 01:20:29,080
Speaker 1: of your your fan favorites. Yeah, we we love Sophia. Um,

1393
01:20:29,120 --> 01:20:31,160
Speaker 1: I'm glad that it was you and not her on yet.

1394
01:20:31,160 --> 01:20:34,720
Speaker 1: Another horrible child abuse episode, because that would have been

1395
01:20:34,760 --> 01:20:41,240
Speaker 1: a war crime. Yeah, alright, well we're done with the episode.

1396
01:20:41,360 --> 01:20:46,280
Speaker 1: Go stare blankly into the setting sun and try not

1397
01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:50,439
Speaker 1: to think about all of the horrible things that John

1398
01:20:50,439 --> 01:20:52,840
Speaker 1: Harvey Kellogg did in the name of medicine. Eat spice,

1399
01:20:52,880 --> 01:21:01,240
Speaker 1: come hard, Eat spice, come hard.