WEBVTT - Alex Winter: The YouTube Effect, Magic Camp + Baby Shark! 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:07.400 Really Now, Really, really. 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:12.360 Now, really Hello, and welcome to this episode of Really 0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:16.320 No Really. Todanyk, Jason Alexander, and Peter Tilden are joined 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:20.919 by actor, producer and director Alex Winter to discuss his 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:26.120 documentary The YouTube Effect and the Bill and Ted movies, 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:32.680 All Tech being porn adjacent, performing Magic, Keanu Reeves, and 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:38.280 Alex's years on Broadway. My only wish for this episode 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:40.960 is that we get to hear Jason and Alex sing 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:45.159 some show tunes together. And now here they are Jason, 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:48.080 Alexander and Peter Tilden with Alex. 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:51.200 Really Welcome to Really No, Really. 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:54.480 Just don't make Jason and I sing any show tunes. 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:57.120 Is that gonna be Is that gonna be harrible for you? 0:00:57.160 --> 0:00:57.240 No? 0:00:57.240 --> 0:01:00.000 It would actually be amazing. He's he's a substantially better 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:02.040 singer that I am. But nonetheless, I. 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:05.920 Haven't heard you what you know, Alex? Just Fredy Alex 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:08.280 Wonders joined us. We won't make you do songs with Jason, 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:10.480 thank you, But but I got to mention, you know 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:13.040 from Bill and Ted and you know him from the Circle. 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:15.200 By the way, you were just you were so freaking good. 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:15.880 I thank you. 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:18.120 I don't think I'm allowed to talk about it because 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:19.080 of the strike. Am I here? 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:21.160 I don't know. Don't promote you know you were. Don't promote, 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:22.480 just talk about it properally. 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:24.840 Yeah, okay, it's already coming gone, so I can't believe 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:25.280 it yet. 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:27.200 You were great. You were I wanted to do as 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:31.160 my lawyer because you were very stern with it, like, yeah, 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:33.800 all right, hit me with it, very very cool. Yeah. 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:36.760 But I didn't realize your child. I forgot your child. 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:39.119 You were on stage with JL Brenner, I was King, 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:42.680 and and Sandy Duncan. Yep, you were a Broadway child. 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:44.080 I was from from what age? 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:48.080 Uh? Well, as Jason knows because he was there. I 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:50.760 moved to New York City in nineteen seventy seven and 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:53.640 I joined a management company that Jason was at. 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:54.000 This kid. 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:57.160 Yeah and uh and you know, it was a very 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:59.840 active sort of environment. They were training us to sing 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:01.640 and to sort of get her act together. So I 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:07.120 was twelve thirteen and I'd done it child acting in 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:09.520 where I'd come from, which was Saint Louis and London, 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:14.040 but nothing on the level that I got parachuted into 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:17.320 because they suddenly needed a kid on Broadway to replace 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:20.200 a kid that was on before they took the national tour. 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:23.440 So there was this urgent training. It was like something 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:25.440 out of a bad martial arts movie, right, where like 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:29.160 we're gonna teach you kung fu in like two weeks. 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:33.080 You have to go in front of one of the 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:36.080 toughest musical directors on Broadway and sing an entire song, 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:40.040 and you were not a trained vocalist. So I was 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:42.280 a trained actor at that age, but not a trained vocalist. 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:44.600 So they like boot camped me into singing. 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:46.320 And I went, did you enjoy it? Do you remember 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:47.639 about I still train? 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:49.799 I love it? I love I love it so much you. 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:52.080 Love I always say to Jason, I will also tell 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:55.200 you because I mean, it's a very handsome man, this guy, 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:59.160 I will tell you as a fairly head of sexual man, 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:04.320 adorable child, I mean, with curly blonde hair and just 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:08.200 like one of those little cherub looking killed Marjor. 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:12.399 Gordoner right exactly. So I'm sorry for that reference. Looking 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:16.239 at it always fascinates me. Brought brought it that. It's 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:20.639 so judgmental, it's so difficult, and it's so repetitive, right 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:22.840 that if you don't like it, or if you're going 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:24.960 through a bad time, you still got to do to 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:26.400 matinee in a regularly. No. 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:28.200 I did eight shows a week. I did King and 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:30.280 I on Broadway for a bit, then on the road. 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:32.840 It was all about a year all told, including at 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:35.120 the Pantagious. Then I went back and pretty much immediately 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:37.560 went into Peter Pan with Sandy Duncan. Did that for 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:40.200 almost three years. So that was all of high school. 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:42.760 Eight shows a week. You know this animal, Michael john 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:44.480 I was John Johnny. 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:47.520 What was your life? It was? It was funny. 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:49.880 I was talking about someone about this earlier who went 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:52.960 to professional children's school, which is where all my friends went. 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:55.160 And my family was like, we're not putting you in 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:57.600 that place because you're just going to become like a maniac. 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:00.880 So I went to a public high school in New 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.400 Jersey and I took the bus in every day and 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:05.400 they let me out early on Wednesday. So I had 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:08.960 this weird, bifurcated life where I had all my normal friends, 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:11.360 all my normal kind of suburban life, and then I 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:12.680 had this crazy. 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:15.280 Point if you went to school, got out early, Yeah, 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:16.360 took public. 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:19.320 Transportation, took a bus into the port. Authority, did the show, 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:21.039 went and did the show, and then got back on 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:22.640 the bus and went home, and I did my homework 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:23.080 on the bus. 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:24.920 Here's what's crazy. What time did you get home? 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:26.359 Eleven thirty or so? 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:29.080 And you know, nowadays, oh my god, I even think 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:32.080 they would allow a child actor to do that anymore. 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:35.279 Like Matilda on Broadway. Yeah, there were four Matilda's and 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:38.440 they all went on every week. Yeah, a bus. How 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:39.720 were you coming home? I was? 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:42.119 I was, well, I was, you know, Times Square working 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:44.880 on forty sixth Street from nineteen seventy. I was in 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:47.160 the Times Square from seventy eight to eighty three. 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:50.840 I guess, so you were what about sixteen? I was? 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:53.840 I was, Yeah, I was thirteen to seventeen. Yeah, and 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:57.520 doing your homework doing you're hanging out at night and 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:00.920 going to shows with the other cast members and you know, but. 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:03.240 It was kids just spitting out, spitballs to each other, 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:04.880 and you're going out a really tough night last night 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:05.640 Women in the third Row? 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:08.280 Was I mean, if you have an adult experience at night? 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:11.680 Oh I did, yeah, very much. So, oh oh my god. Yeah, 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:17.080 I made a documentary about showbiz kids. Yeahbo it ain't pretty, 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:19.640 it was. I'm lucky. We're all lucky. 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:22.400 I am always you know, I've worked with enough kids 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:26.560 now as an adult, and I always wonder what the 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:29.880 experiences for them. Yeah, I think the kids that I've 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:34.120 worked with have have actually had decent experience lives and experiences. 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:35.120 But I know that that. 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:36.320 It can go a number of ways. 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:38.800 Alex, want to look at you. Most kids have a 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:42.040 hard time just doing a homework. We're taking public expectation. Yeah, 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:44.680 it's an adultified world. I mean in every conceivable way. 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:47.800 And the thing about it though, is to you know, yes, 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:50.120 it's hard work. But as Jason, as you know from having. 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:54.320 Done so much theater, I remember the very first day 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:56.640 I went to rehearse because you'll Berner basically ran king 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:58.760 and I didn't take a director's credit, but he directed 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:01.080 the whole show. He did the audition, did everything, and 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:03.920 because the show was already running on Broadway, he had 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:05.960 to rehearse me while the show. The only way to 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:08.400 get me adapted to the stage was to rehearse me 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:11.240 while the show was going on. So there'd be a 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:15.200 scrim and certain scenes would happen in front of a scrim, 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:18.400 So for those like ten minutes I had to work 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:21.400 on the set. And so there was on this giant 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:23.680 Broadway was the Gershwin right, the eras on this giant 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.560 Broadway stage by myself in the dark because of the 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:28.880 way a scrim works, as you know, they can't it's 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:31.000 like a two way mirror. They can't see through it, 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:34.159 but I can see them. So there's like fricking eighteen 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:37.120 hundred people and you'll Brinner with a spotlight on him 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:38.239 singing his song. 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:40.479 Yeah, And here I am thirteen years. 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:42.039 Old, like fresh off the bus from Saint Louis, and 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:44.320 I was like, I never want to do anything else, 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:48.640 like this is paradise, like I mean, so I was 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:51.480 so happy in that environment that it made all of 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:52.560 the stressors. 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:54.640 Well, the juice that you got as a thirteen year 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:56.800 old was the applause. Was the crowd was he does? 0:06:57.320 --> 0:06:59.359 I mean, Berner wouldn't stop. Now they do it with 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:01.720 every show bit much. But Brinn wouldn't let people go 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:05.520 home till they gave him a standing ovation. So the 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:09.120 curtain call every night it was the standing ovation because 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:11.560 he literally wouldn't let them leave. Now, pretty much every 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:13.160 show you go to everyone gets on their feet, which 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:15.840 is kind of you know, but but so it was. 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:17.800 It was spectacular. I mean it was very much his 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:20.400 show in consence Towers, who was Anna, you know, it 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:23.640 was Lewis, I did my thing whatever, I wasn't starring fast. 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:26.840 We're in a fascinating start and that will will leap ahead. 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:28.160 We'll get back to Bill and Ted later and all 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:31.320 the other stuff. But the really, no, really was we're 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:33.760 all dealing with these algorithms. We're all dealing with the 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:37.040 three companies that are running social media, and you. 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:38.080 Point all of technology. 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:40.280 I would say, but all of technology, and you pointed 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:42.280 out two of them and showed that there's no silent 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:46.160 between them. That's right, it's it's it's the YouTube and Google. Yeah, 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:48.760 and you had access to the CEO, you would access 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:50.880 to the guys who start, the guy who started, which 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:53.840 was that made me laugh at people don't realize that 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:57.160 the big social media platforms are all porn adjacent. That's right, 0:07:57.160 --> 0:08:00.000 they all started to explain if they haven't seen the document. 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:06.880 Basically, every every technical innovation scales because of pornography. That's 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:12.040 kind of a well known thing in technology. Yeah, I 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:16.360 know that's shocking, right, but including including PayPal, which the 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:18.720 only reason PayPal took off was because people were using 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:25.440 it for for porn transactions and fact, if you look 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:27.560 at in the social network. In the film, they talk 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:32.360 about how that started as basically you know exactly and 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:34.760 you know what that was about. And then YouTube started 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:38.960 with a service called Hot or Not where they were like, Okay, 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:42.440 finally we have the most robust technology to get video 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:44.719 online which no one had ever figured out before. We're 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:47.880 going to use it to cure cancer. We're gonna we're 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:50.160 going to allow like old people to see their their 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:52.960 their young family before they passed. No, we're not going 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:54.680 to do any of those things. We're going to create 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:57.160 Hot or Not so you could rank how hot or 0:08:57.200 --> 0:08:59.600 not hot someone who's video based on their video. 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:03.480 And by the way, the money came from for humanity, 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:06.560 the money came from PayPal, which was porn related, and 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:09.040 the two guys who started the three guys Yeah sold 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:11.200 it within a year year and a half. 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:15.080 Yeah to Google four one point six billion in two 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:19.200 thousand and five, which is like trillions in today's money. 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:21.000 It was crazy, It was unprecedented. 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:24.280 So that was the intent of this was that innocent, innocent. 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:27.360 It was rating. It was to rate people and then 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:27.920 it grew. 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:31.000 It did, but to be fair to the founders, one 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:33.760 of whom Steve Chann is in the film, they they 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:36.439 saw its potential beyond Hot or Not immediately and began 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:38.760 to it wasn't hot or not when Google bought it 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:41.640 right by home. Yeah, by then they realized that, no, 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:45.240 this is actually a service that is going to change 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:47.959 the world in certain ways in terms of what I mean. 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:50.320 We all know this if we work in media, that 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:54.040 there's so much power to the visual image, right, and 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:56.720 a moving visual image. And in two thousand and five 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:59.320 is as recent as that is, was really hard to 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:02.520 move around online. It was almost impossible, and like people 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:04.439 have been doing it since the nineties, but it was hard. 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:07.240 And suddenly this thing comes along where there's just like 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:11.199 I can upload my cat, I can upload my daughter 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:15.320 taking her first steps. And it blew people's minds and 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:20.000 it scaled immediately, like within within the first year of 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:22.120 you two buying it, And everybody made fun of of Google. 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:25.440 I saw that what's his name from Mars sharknank mark. 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.360 Humans said it is one of the dumbest investments. 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:30.760 But everybody did. Susan caught so much flak for being 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:35.320 so so bullish about wanting to acquire this company, Susan, 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:40.480 they started googling. Yeah, very very bright lady from a 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:44.360 very bright family, full stop. But she really did have 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:46.840 the vision early on that a lot of other people lacked. 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:50.480 And it's hard to quantify how big this thing is, 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:53.360 which is why people don't talk about it very often. 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:53.719 Right. 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:56.439 They think about it as a social media platform, which 0:10:56.480 --> 0:11:00.560 it really isn't. It's it's it's all of humans recorded 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:03.000 history in one place, which you can't find anywhere else. 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:06.400 It's it's obviously influencers, and it's DIY, and there's a 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:09.560 social media component, and it's all of those things. But 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:11.720 it's also all of our media, all of our music, 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:13.760 all of our entertainment, all of our news, and all 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:17.080 of our search for certain demographic That's all under why. 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:18.679 I was shocked, because it is used. 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:20.679 This is where I have never used it, but I 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:23.760 guess a lot of people do. I. I do use 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:26.000 social media to get some news sources, but I've never 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:27.000 thought to go to YouTube. 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:29.280 That's right. Is that really a big component of you? 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:31.640 My I've got three boys. My eldest is about to 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:34.800 turn twenty five. They're all like super balanced great kids. 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:36.559 None of them got rabbit Hold or red Pildar, any 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:39.640 of those things. But they live on YouTube and they 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:41.640 don't really use anything. 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:44.520 So did my son twenty seven. Yeah, and I when 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:48.360 we watched this together. That's what curates his news. That's 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:49.480 what that's I mean, it's. 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:52.520 Not only his music and everything and everything. 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:55.080 Yeah. When I say TV or streaming, he goes, what, Yeah, 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:56.040 it's all there. 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:58.320 Yeah, I mean, Jason, they're going to know you by 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:01.560 watching either all of your stuff or clips of your 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:02.439 stuff on YouTube. 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:04.320 And what is my residual payment for that? 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:07.440 I would say that somewhere between zero and zero. 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:09.840 That is that abides with what. 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:14.120 I yes, which is why we're striking right, because if 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:17.480 all the other companies could have that model, they would absolutely. 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:20.760 Use forever. Just use that and put it up forever. 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:22.680 And that's why I want to have you into. You 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:26.160 didn't demonize it, you didn't say it was evil and 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:30.640 the enemy. The negative is nobody really understands the algorithm, 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:34.840 but we do know, or it's implied that outrage is entertainment. 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:38.240 So instead of getting clicks, this is not clickbait. This 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:41.400 is get you in and keep you with. And that's 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:43.600 what I want to talk to you about the algorithm 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:47.320 that accelerates what you're watching. And I saw the interviews 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:49.839 with quite a few people on your on your documentary 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:52.400 to take some down rabbit holes that are quite dangerous, 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:54.600 and they go to on ramps as you point out, 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:56.840 which are innachio. So I think you pointed out self 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:59.480 help or whatever mental health which can end up taking 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:03.960 you to some really dangerous places. And Jason, it's interesting 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:07.040 because there's a naivity about how can can't you control 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:09.760 how that happens? Can't you resist having that happen? 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:12.200 Yeah, what's interesting and what we get into in the 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:14.520 film is is that we're now kind of even past 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:20.760 an algorithm slashed rabbit hole era. Where YouTube, unlike any 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:22.760 of these other platforms, is once you get pulled in, 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:25.360 you're not just watching a five second or thirty second 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:28.520 or two minute little video clip you're watching. You're connecting 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:31.600 with an individual who has a channel that probably has 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:33.760 a lot of money behind it and an enormous amount 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:36.400 of viewers that's talking to you for an hour. And 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:38.839 because of the way you tube works, it's like that 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:41.440 person is looking in their webcam. So there's the connection 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:45.720 between you and that influencer, that person on that channel 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:49.720 is extremely powerful, much more powerful than an anchor on 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:52.520 TV who's sort of vaguely talking to the fourth wall 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:55.600 myriad cameras, but you're sitting at home. You don't feel 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:58.080 like you have any kind of personal connection to that person. 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:00.840 I think that what YouTube didn't e and see coming 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:03.120 that I think still not talked about enough in the 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:06.160 news is that this is more of like a parasocial 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:10.040 issue than an algorithmic issue, Meaning these people feel they 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:13.079 have a deep bond, like a personal intimate bond with 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:15.560 the person on the other end of that webcam who 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:19.000 they really don't know at all, and so that has 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:21.680 been that has led to a lot of dangerous propaganda 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:24.800 and people being incited to violence and all kinds of stuff. 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:28.160 Sure you can get into party politics, but this is 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:32.640 a human nature issue because a everyone responds to outrage, 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:34.880 no matter what the outrage is. But it's also being 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:38.960 monetized by this company, by any of these companies, because 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:42.000 they are ad based. So the more they keep you 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.520 on platform, the longer they've got you on these channels. 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:47.560 Watching whatever show is like pulling in and they've got 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:49.840 ads attached to it. Then the more money they make, 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.000 and that's where you end up with a problem. So 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.560 I've been arguing for a while, which other people have too, 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:56.760 that this is no different than what like pull ups 0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:59.840 are and Aharst did right for their newspapers back in 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:02.480 the late eighteen hundreds. This is like grab people with 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:05.480 the most salacious stuff you can and then monetize it. 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:08.960 But when you're dealing with four point six billion views 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:12.160 a day, which is what YouTube gets, which is way 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:16.520 beyond anything else on the planet, including every media conglomerate, 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:20.320 every TV channel, and every social media platform, and you're 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:24.280 monetizing that kind of traffic, that's where dangers. 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:24.520 Look. 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:37.160 I'm fascinated by the ad component and the ad revenue 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:41.040 component because again I'm apparently using YouTube in a very 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:42.240 pedestrian way. 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:46.640 But I have never paid attention to an ad on YouTube. 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:48.320 I can't, you know, if they give me the five 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:50.560 second thing, I'm counting it down as stats as I 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:52.360 can go. There are some you can't get rid of, 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:56.160 but I have never swayed to a product or a 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:59.760 thing as sold to me by YouTube. I can't believe 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:03.360 that people are spending money to advertise on it. I 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:04.280 is it effective? 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:07.920 It's it is massive when you look at the numbers. 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:09.800 And look, when you make a doc, you don't go 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:13.400 in knowing everything. You go in knowing generally what something 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:16.520 is about. Maybe was you know, a specific understanding of 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:19.680 the landscape. But every week on this thing is I 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:23.760 was working, the numbers just kept blowing my mind. I 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:27.000 mean the ad revenue. And to be fair, look during COVID, 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:30.320 everyone was stuck on YouTube. They made they made, you know, 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:31.360 more than most countries. 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:32.840 Do you know the number? Do you know the numbers? 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:34.640 I mean it's in our movie. I think it's three 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:37.800 hundred and twenty six billions. Hundreds of yea, hundreds of billions. Yeah, well, 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:40.920 I mean Google is worth in the trillions. But yes, 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:43.480 you're dealing with billions as far as YouTube is concerned. 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:46.240 And I think it's you know, hundreds of millions per 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:50.800 anim but you're dealing with an enormous amount of eyeballs 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:54.240 on content. So if you're an advertiser, it absolutely matters 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:58.280 to you. Like if someone is seeing forget TV advertising, 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:00.800 forget the Super Bowl, it's like the Super all day 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:03.600 every day is how they look at it, So yes, 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:05.640 they And the thing other thing to remember is that. 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:09.000 You know, I encounter this a lot of times, people saying, well, 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:10.400 I don't do anything on YouTube other than like figure 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:12.520 out how to put a triple a battery into my remote, 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:15.200 or you know, want to learn a song or something. 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:18.480 But everyone is doing that all day and those and 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:21.000 they're doing it all over the world. It's not relegated 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:24.280 to our country or just North America. So the entire 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:27.439 planet is glued that. I mean, the number one most 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:29.200 viewed website in the world is Google. The number two 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:32.679 most viewed website in the planet is YouTube. There are 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.320 more people watching YouTube than anything else on the planet. 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:38.280 Google's mostly text, right, so there's more eyeballs on this 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:41.000 thing than anything else. So for advertisers, matter chased. 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:43.120 In a sense to people listening. One of the moments 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:45.200 that blew me away. And we were trying to find 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:47.199 this kid, but you got the kid. And you know, 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:50.800 I'm talking about the Ryan Ryan talk about talk about 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:53.000 Ryan's little business on YouTube. 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:57.000 Well, yeah, that family's side hustle is they had a 0:17:57.080 --> 0:17:59.680 kid who started on YouTube at three. He's now nine. 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:03.719 I mean, amazing kid and to be fair, really amazing parents. 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:08.000 He's super lucky because his parents are really smart. They 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:10.600 must be making between one hundred and fifty two hundred 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:16.400 million dollars a year doing going on and saying, hey, 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:19.680 this started when he was three, right like, hey, I'm 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:21.560 going to look at this new toy. I got come 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:24.399 look at it with me. And so then people started 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:28.560 watching him playing with toys. Toy manufacturers kind of perked 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:30.080 up and went, oh, let's get him to play with 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:32.480 our toys. So okay, well that's going to cost you. 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:34.720 And then advertisers perked up and said, oh, this is 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:37.280 a great place for us to advertise because he's getting 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:41.080 hundreds of millions of views on these videos. And next thing, 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:44.160 you know, it's an industry. I mean, it's a formidable industry. 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:45.040 Kid is a rock star. 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:46.560 Yeah, it's huge, I mean it's I mean, these are 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:47.320 huge numbers. 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.919 But also you pointed out interestingly that it was an 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:54.240 easy loophole for other people to start monetizing on children's 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:57.760 programming on YouTube and they're putting horrible stuff up. Yeah, 0:18:57.760 --> 0:18:58.720 there was a pure stuff. 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:01.040 Yeah, there was a period, and to be fair to YouTube, 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:03.920