Speaker 1: It's one am in Salem, Massachusetts, and you're listening Tonight Call. Hello,
Speaker 1: and welcome to Night Call, a podcast for your strange
Speaker 1: days and lonely nights. I am in Los Angeles. My
Speaker 1: name is Tess Lynch. With me is Molly Lamb. Right
Speaker 1: and over in New York, we have Emily Orshita. Hello, Hello, Hello,
Speaker 1: Hall Satan, Hale Satan. Now we don't have to laugh
Speaker 1: when we say Hall Satan, and you will find out
Speaker 1: why momentarily. So. Um, this week we have a very
Speaker 1: special guest on the pod. We talked to her just
Speaker 1: a little bit ago, but through the magic of editing,
Speaker 1: we are about to talk to her. Um. It's Penny Lane.
Speaker 1: She's a filmmaker we really like, and you did a
Speaker 1: movie we really like called Hail satan Ston. We'll be
Speaker 1: chatting with her in just a second, but first we
Speaker 1: wanted to take a moment to just tip our cowboy
Speaker 1: hats to the yeeha agenda, which we all at I
Speaker 1: Call have decided to support sure wholeheartedly. Yeah. The song
Speaker 1: of the Summer uh from Little Little nas X and
Speaker 1: Billy Ray Cyrus. I am um, I feel like this
Speaker 1: song of the Summer discourse is mostly dead and buried,
Speaker 1: but I am willing to exhume it. Uh this year
Speaker 1: for this song, especially this song coming out in um
Speaker 1: and on April, particularly the remix featuring Billy Ray Cyrus.
Speaker 1: The song has brought people together. The song is old
Speaker 1: Town Road by the way road circling around, saying it
Speaker 1: like it's um like the horses are circling the wagons around. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I heard someone refer to Little nos X as Little
Speaker 1: nas and X, and now I can't see that without
Speaker 1: being like Little Nasonets, which is also as its springs season. Yeah, wow,
Speaker 1: Little nos X, who may or may not have been
Speaker 1: a tweet decking Nicki Minaj. I don't care. I love
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, get it, get it,
Speaker 1: get there anywhere you can. It's also like, that's just
Speaker 1: like working at Walgreens now, like, oh, from somewhere you
Speaker 1: used the internet to try and make yourself money. Welcome.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a little less on board with this song
Speaker 1: itself than you guys. As you know, I do love
Speaker 1: a crossover hit, but this it's like I can't deal
Speaker 1: with the minor key songs down with nine inch nails,
Speaker 1: fucking fragile, right now is a banger though He's cut
Speaker 1: the horses in the back and Wrangler on his booty,
Speaker 1: Can't tell Me Nothing, and the Billy Ray Cyrus remix um,
Speaker 1: which truly elevates us the song of the Summer because
Speaker 1: the other reason is that it went to number one
Speaker 1: on the country charts and then Billboard decided it wasn't
Speaker 1: a country song because they are racist. Uh, and that
Speaker 1: is the reason why. Because there are so many songs
Speaker 1: on the country charts right now that are totally rap country.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah. Rap country has existed for a lot forever.
Speaker 1: White people do it all the time. There's so much
Speaker 1: talk rapping, especially on mainstream country radio, which Tess I
Speaker 1: both secretly listened to all the time. It's all like
Speaker 1: getting my car. It's all just spoken like Sam Hunt,
Speaker 1: Sam Hunt does that Sam like a little girl, and
Speaker 1: then she came He's like the drake of country is
Speaker 1: not my favorite at all. But the Little Nazac song,
Speaker 1: when you hear it, it is like anthemic. It's an earworm.
Speaker 1: It just brings me down a nudge like I wanted
Speaker 1: to just lift me up. You know. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of sad songs about horses. That's my thing. They got
Speaker 1: to run away front free. I mean, he just wants
Speaker 1: to ride until he can't know more. I'm I'll allow it.
Speaker 1: And I also love that the visual for it on
Speaker 1: the official YouTube lak Dead Redemption, which just takes it
Speaker 1: to another place. I just feel like, I feel like
Speaker 1: the the crux of the h agenda, if that's what
Speaker 1: we're calling it right now, is like this reclamation of
Speaker 1: cowboy imagery for all people, um and like a post
Speaker 1: digital age, which is it's not like country music is
Speaker 1: not being popular, it's but this has been a thing
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about since they were mean to Beyonce
Speaker 1: at the c m A Awards, because that was right
Speaker 1: before the election. I remember thinking, like, what the funk
Speaker 1: is wrong with people? Why aren't they just like welcoming
Speaker 1: Beyonce for daging to give country music a bomp on
Speaker 1: the show? Uh? And they were so mean and racist
Speaker 1: about it, and I was like, maybe America has a
Speaker 1: lot of problems we haven't really dealt with yet. And
Speaker 1: then I couldn't be I couldn't listen to mainstream country
Speaker 1: music for a while after that because I was like, Wow,
Speaker 1: if I just think about all these people being racists.
Speaker 1: It makes me like, I don't think that it's necessarily
Speaker 1: the all the artists, but I think it's like a
Speaker 1: lot of the kind of powers that I went through.
Speaker 1: It's definitely a bunch of the I went through a
Speaker 1: period and not just old school people, which is what's weird.
Speaker 1: Rum and went and again. I went through a period
Speaker 1: where I was just like any song that had country
Speaker 1: in it, I would just like replace it with racist
Speaker 1: in my mind. And that was a fun game to
Speaker 1: allow me to listen to those songs. A little bit racist. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm a little bit racist. Whatever makes you racist, that's
Speaker 1: what makes Yeah. It works, it works, it works out.
Speaker 1: But um, this is the little no X and Billy
Speaker 1: race IRUs song has will allow country music to redeem itself.
Speaker 1: Um by welcoming Little nozas into the country establishment as
Speaker 1: they should, as they should. I still agree with that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they put the song. I believe the remix the Billboard
Speaker 1: decided also is not. They still won't put it on
Speaker 1: the country charts, but it went to number one on
Speaker 1: the Hot one hundred, so in a way, it's been
Speaker 1: good for the song's publicity. When they banned that sex
Speaker 1: pistol song and it made it be a hit. Shout
Speaker 1: out yeah, shout out jes uh. So I've heard it
Speaker 1: just playing out of every car I've driven pack. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be like the party song, like when they
Speaker 1: comes on and you're at a barbecue this summer you're
Speaker 1: gonna and it's like it's hay back for Post Malone. Yes,
Speaker 1: you know, also makes stuff that he claims is like
Speaker 1: sort of country, but it is essentially country rap, which
Speaker 1: counts the country. It's country. I entered a contest that
Speaker 1: like landed in my inbox to go to stage coach
Speaker 1: all expenses, and then immediately I was like, oh, it's
Speaker 1: so white, but I but I still want to go.
Speaker 1: I'm just like, oh, what if I get there and
Speaker 1: suddenly I'm like no, I mean like sun Night called
Speaker 1: the stage coach, Yeah, we would go. I have a
Speaker 1: lot of thoughts and feelings about it. Also, isn't it
Speaker 1: funny that, like just a few months ago people saw
Speaker 1: Stars Born. They're like, this isn't like realistic, this guy
Speaker 1: wouldn't be popular. Well, this was in Kate Rath's presentation
Speaker 1: that I was part of a stars Born takes place
Speaker 1: in a universe y ninal leven never happened. On One
Speaker 1: of her tenants was that um that country music would
Speaker 1: have continued to become more progressive in the non nine
Speaker 1: in universe instead of the reactionary swing to the right
Speaker 1: that it made after nine eleven with Toby Keith and
Speaker 1: all that stuff. Country music would have become more more welcoming.
Speaker 1: Tessed looking at me like I'm insane because I'm blowing
Speaker 1: your mind series. And since this has happened, I have
Speaker 1: been wondering if this means the universes are crossing back over. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think maybe the good universe is trying to break
Speaker 1: on through. Oh it hurts my brain. I think you
Speaker 1: just created a neural pathway that did check graph. She's
Speaker 1: on Jack a m which is my favorite daily morning
Speaker 1: show podcast. UM and now onto our interview with Penny
Speaker 1: Lane eight trill trill. You guys, summer is coming. I
Speaker 1: know while you're in l A and summer is probably
Speaker 1: like already too much and you're probably melting on the
Speaker 1: heat already. But in New York it just got to
Speaker 1: be like seventy degrees for the first time, and it's
Speaker 1: incredibly exciting. I love to go to Prospect Park and um,
Speaker 1: maybe take a little bit of rose with me because
Speaker 1: I am basic. I enjoy being basic on occasion. And
Speaker 1: one of the things that is sort of a pet
Speaker 1: peeve of mine is on a hot summer day, you
Speaker 1: want to take your wine, your beer, whatever it is,
Speaker 1: to the park and about an hour in in the
Speaker 1: sweltering heat because of global warming and other things as well.
Speaker 1: Uh it is room temperature or warm, it's just a bummer.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not going to stop me from drinking
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Speaker 1: I got one in kind of a wood grain, which
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Speaker 1: I love that we're both really into the idea of
Speaker 1: drinking cold beverages outside. If there's one thing we're enthusiastic
Speaker 1: about it, oh my god, having a picnic. Listen, it's
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Speaker 1: Los Angeles. It already is today. I wish I had
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Speaker 1: A on a hot day and you're only water you
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Speaker 1: com and beat the heat this summer twelve nine five,
Speaker 1: eighteen nineteen. So we are now joined here in the
Speaker 1: studio in New York with Penny Lane. She's a documentary filmmaker.
Speaker 1: She has a new film out this week. If you're
Speaker 1: listening to this, all right, that's right. I'm always in
Speaker 1: this weird time warper. I'm like, are we this weeker
Speaker 1: next week, UM called Hail Satan. It was at Sundance
Speaker 1: this year and now it's out in select theaters. It
Speaker 1: is highly recommended my team Nightcall. She's also done a
Speaker 1: bunch of other films were big fans of, particularly our Nixon.
Speaker 1: We were big our Nixon fans back in the day
Speaker 1: and Nixon h guys and like Everyone's Dad, Perfect are
Speaker 1: Everybody's Dad though? That's um And also Nuts, which is
Speaker 1: like a completely uh bonkers film. It was so fun
Speaker 1: that it was also another Sundance thing that I saw
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. So you can't say what
Speaker 1: it is without describing it so that people know that
Speaker 1: it's a doctor who implanted goat testicles into human men
Speaker 1: to cure impotence. The more you know, the more you know. So, Penny,
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that you had a documentary about more Gellon's.
Speaker 1: I just found out Molly and I spent many hours
Speaker 1: back in the day being like, is it real? Is
Speaker 1: it not real? What is it? So I'm excited to
Speaker 1: see that next Yeah, one of the less fun topics
Speaker 1: that I've covered. Yeah, it's pretty in that film. Either.
Speaker 1: When did that, um, when did you just like last year,
Speaker 1: last year. Here, what's it called the pain of others? Others?
Speaker 1: That's your cue that it's like not that funny. This
Speaker 1: is also that was like a fountain that was musing
Speaker 1: mostly like first person YouTube. Yeah, the whole, the whole,
Speaker 1: the whole film is made up of these YouTube vlogs
Speaker 1: of more Gillan's sufferers. Yeah, yeah, which I've definitely spent
Speaker 1: a long time on you, like we all. That was
Speaker 1: one of the first things that drew us together. I
Speaker 1: think I didn't buy a hairbrush recently because the bristles
Speaker 1: were like rainbow colored plastic too. For people who don't know.
Speaker 1: Listeners who don't know, could there be anyone who doesn't know?
Speaker 1: We have we can say what it is. But yeah,
Speaker 1: well more Gillan's is a very mysterious illness that was
Speaker 1: discovered or first I guess happened to people about fifteen
Speaker 1: years ago. Um and the symptoms of the disease are
Speaker 1: like out of a sci fi movie. So the main
Speaker 1: diagnostic is that out of your skin grows multi colored
Speaker 1: fibers that are made of something too serious that don't
Speaker 1: burn under extremely high heat. It may or may not
Speaker 1: move around like little machines they look like little um.
Speaker 1: Everyone in this room looks really sick right now because
Speaker 1: a lot too ye describing it. That's the thing is
Speaker 1: like people describing it. It's impossible to tell apart from
Speaker 1: like methanetoma symptoms except we're the multiple colored the rainbow colorow.
Speaker 1: There's also a touch of like, would anyone think they
Speaker 1: had this if the Internet didn't tell them it was
Speaker 1: a thing they could have. Yeah. It's one of those
Speaker 1: things where you start googling symptoms and then you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: wait a second, could it be this? Also, Joni Mitchell
Speaker 1: has it and has talked about it interviews, which I
Speaker 1: think boosted it. It's signal a bit. I think I'm
Speaker 1: having imaginary to see this is unfortunately going to become
Speaker 1: even more popular in forthcoming years. Womp, No thanks, I'm
Speaker 1: just I just think it's true. Well, way more fun
Speaker 1: than that was were the Satanists that we met in
Speaker 1: Hail State. Hail Satan. Yeah, how do you pronounce it
Speaker 1: when you actually have to say the name of your
Speaker 1: your film? I just say Hal Satan, Okay, But I
Speaker 1: like watching other people pronounce it, like with the question
Speaker 1: mark at the end of it, because it's really funny. Well,
Speaker 1: the question mark is like kind of the crux of
Speaker 1: the film, right, yeah, sure, because the film is uh
Speaker 1: so it's about the Satanic Temple, which, as we were
Speaker 1: discussing off pod, it is very different and we must
Speaker 1: make the distinction between it and the Church of Satan.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah. And so tell us a little bit just
Speaker 1: for people who haven't seen the film, um, because I
Speaker 1: guess that'll be everybody when this comes up, but just
Speaker 1: about like the basic premise and this group of people
Speaker 1: that you kind of followed for how long about three years?
Speaker 1: Three years at the Satanic Temple is a new religious
Speaker 1: movement that started in basically as a joke like amongst
Speaker 1: a few people with a sense of humor and like
Speaker 1: a political activist bent. And then within months of that
Speaker 1: sort of initial joke had blossomed into an internationally recognized
Speaker 1: organized religious movement with hundreds of thousands of members. And
Speaker 1: so I was like, what, how how did they get
Speaker 1: from A to B? And that was definitely like the
Speaker 1: question that I was trying to answer with the movie was,
Speaker 1: you know, sort of what is going on here? Like
Speaker 1: is it a joke or not? You know, that was
Speaker 1: kind of my initial thing and it's the opening scene
Speaker 1: that must have been really really early on. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I wasn't there, right, So, like if this is a
Speaker 1: six year story because they got started in I showed
Speaker 1: up in Yeah, because that was before that was still
Speaker 1: when it was kind of just a conceptual thing at
Speaker 1: a movement for to basically like prove a point about
Speaker 1: religious freedom in America. And uh, it definitely has a
Speaker 1: different look. It's definitely a little more Halloween Store than
Speaker 1: how it gets to be later on, although there's always
Speaker 1: like a tinge of Halloween Store. The Halloween Store never
Speaker 1: really goes right right. That's what's great about Satanism. So
Speaker 1: for our audience, let's do a brief explainer on the
Speaker 1: history of Satanism. Anton LaVey, Yes, founded the Church of
Speaker 1: Satan in Penny. Do we know what what does in
Speaker 1: six right, and also kind of invented the idea of
Speaker 1: like the media, the using Satanism as a vehicle to
Speaker 1: like get on talk shows, yeah, and then use it
Speaker 1: to your own ends. And so the Satanic Temple, which
Speaker 1: is not the Church of Satan, the Satanic Temple took
Speaker 1: that kind of template to talk about free speech and
Speaker 1: the idea of America being like supposedly a pluralistic religious
Speaker 1: country and the reality that it is a very prejudiced country,
Speaker 1: and be like, let's force people who want to have
Speaker 1: the Ten Commandments as a statue to put up our
Speaker 1: satan statue. I liked somebody at one point pronounced it. Well.
Speaker 1: I was a little upset when they were like, we
Speaker 1: gave it the abs of iggy pop and like it's
Speaker 1: supposed to have breasts, but we didn't give it break.
Speaker 1: That would be overkill. I was totally like, Wow, I
Speaker 1: must be a real like you know, purist, Yeah, like
Speaker 1: a purist Satanist. Yeah. I was like, well, if it
Speaker 1: doesn't at breast, it's not you are not alone. You
Speaker 1: can go on the internet and find many people who
Speaker 1: are happy to complain about the lack of breast with you,
Speaker 1: the other baffo mat purists out there. When the Satanic
Speaker 1: feminists break off, I think Night Call is ready for them.
Speaker 1: Also the crops Um. Speaking of nudity, the Satanic Temple
Speaker 1: was featuring a lot of the pain in the performance
Speaker 1: art that a company I think Jack Lash was the
Speaker 1: Detroit chapter. They were big a male body, which I appreciated. Yes,
Speaker 1: so Night caall also all for equal nudity, All for
Speaker 1: equal nudity. We've been on a neurotic odyssey. I was like,
Speaker 1: this is we weren't trying to bring Yeah, but documentaries
Speaker 1: often show a lot more penis than anything else will show.
Speaker 1: It's right, yeah, it's true for depicting waiting for our
Speaker 1: distributor to, like, you know, say, when are you planning
Speaker 1: on blurring out those flopping penises all over the movie?
Speaker 1: And they were like, what, no, when I was like,
Speaker 1: a great, great, good documentary. Better I mean I do
Speaker 1: kind of like how whenever somebody does say hal Satan
Speaker 1: and the movie there is sort of a giggle after,
Speaker 1: Like it's always like everybody can be completely straight faced
Speaker 1: about the actual principles that the that the temple is
Speaker 1: standing for because they are very real. Like that's kind
Speaker 1: of the amazing thing about the film is that what
Speaker 1: starts off as like a conceptual gag becomes like a
Speaker 1: very real and like something that everybody is deeply invested
Speaker 1: in within the Temple because they are. It's like, I
Speaker 1: think it's especially interesting like how many you know, kind
Speaker 1: of people who said they didn't have any anything that
Speaker 1: they felt that they were not privileged about or like
Speaker 1: out like another or something. Uh, and then becoming a
Speaker 1: part of the church or the temple rather, I can't say, um,
Speaker 1: becoming a part of the temple and suddenly being involved
Speaker 1: in this struggle. It's like, oh, this must be what
Speaker 1: it's like for everybody who's not a part of like
Speaker 1: the quote unquote majority American culture. Um, they kind of
Speaker 1: are like Juggalos. They're a little bit Juggalo adjacent insiders,
Speaker 1: you mean, Like, but yeah, and like maybe in the
Speaker 1: service of good of just like people that like need
Speaker 1: to put their energy towards something, and like especially maybe
Speaker 1: some young white men who would otherwise go in some
Speaker 1: bad directions to direct it towards like, oh, freedom of
Speaker 1: religion is good. Well, first a lot of them were
Speaker 1: coming out of the church like dy, which is like,
Speaker 1: of course, but it was fascinating to me also. But
Speaker 1: then a lot of them also went through some kind
Speaker 1: of atheist stage, and I thought that was also interesting
Speaker 1: that they said didn't offer the community that being a
Speaker 1: part of a temple, being a part of an organized
Speaker 1: religion offers. And I think that that like that becomes
Speaker 1: sort of lost. I think in a lot of especially
Speaker 1: like debates over secularism and stuff. Is that there are
Speaker 1: like good aspects to organize religion that like build community
Speaker 1: and like make you feel accountable to like a group
Speaker 1: of people. It's just people crave human connection and groups. Penny,
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you what you saw over the
Speaker 1: course of your three years with them in terms of
Speaker 1: like the evolution of this group, because it is so
Speaker 1: new and it was really interesting to see how, you know,
Speaker 1: it kind of came together and then in a way
Speaker 1: like they had to worry about brand messaging and all
Speaker 1: of this kind of like they were using like corporate
Speaker 1: speak and these meetings. So what kind of things did
Speaker 1: you see change within the group and like where do
Speaker 1: you think they're going from here? I think exactly what
Speaker 1: you said was the main change, right. I mean, if
Speaker 1: you look at just say Lucian Grieves, who is the
Speaker 1: co founder and spokesperson of the Satanic Temple. In the
Speaker 1: first few minutes of our film, he you know, busts
Speaker 1: out at the grave site of Fred Phelps's mother and
Speaker 1: like tea bags her grave. So he's clearly like kind
Speaker 1: of a wacky, out there kind of guy who just
Speaker 1: does whatever crazy thing seems appealing to him a bit anarchistic,
Speaker 1: like let's bring more chaos into the world, But by
Speaker 1: the end of the film he has to perhaps reluctantly
Speaker 1: excommunicate people who are doing things that are really radical
Speaker 1: and really aren't kind of on message with their their
Speaker 1: kind of whole institutional idea. So, I mean that's what
Speaker 1: was interesting. I mean, you know, the whole kind of
Speaker 1: basic irony and questionable sustainability of an organized Satanic religion,
Speaker 1: you know, manifesting into an institution when like kind of
Speaker 1: your m O if you're a Satanist is that you
Speaker 1: hate institutions and like don't want to be part of
Speaker 1: a group, Like how is that going to move into
Speaker 1: the future? And so watching those conflicts develop over time
Speaker 1: was was pretty interesting. Yeah, it seems like they handled
Speaker 1: it pretty civilly. I mean, I was just looking at
Speaker 1: Jack's Blackmore's um Twitter, and she is she was excommunicated.
Speaker 1: She was I think the head of the Detroit chapter,
Speaker 1: and I think had been good friends with Lucian Grieves
Speaker 1: for a long time. UM, And it seemed like it
Speaker 1: was kind of like definitely feelings were hurt, but it
Speaker 1: was so much more civil than one would have imagined
Speaker 1: when this is like based on you know, really edgy
Speaker 1: performance art and like, you know, the kind of building
Speaker 1: of this movement. Do you feel like there is a
Speaker 1: way for them to kind of like keep their message
Speaker 1: on brand or is that kind of like does that
Speaker 1: you know, run a foul of like what their whole
Speaker 1: thing stands for. I don't know. I mean I think that,
Speaker 1: you know, I separate in my mind the religion of
Speaker 1: Satanism from the institution of the Satanic Temple. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know what's going to happen to the institution.
Speaker 1: It's basically how together with rubber bands and like a
Speaker 1: lot of whiskey. Like it's just volunteers who are like
Speaker 1: doing this at night when their kids are asleep and
Speaker 1: their day job is done. It's not as organized as
Speaker 1: it looks from the outside. And you know, I think
Speaker 1: if those who are involved in leadership tomorrow quit, the
Speaker 1: whole thing would literally fall apart. Like it's not it's
Speaker 1: not like organized in that. Yeah. Yeah, So they've managed
Speaker 1: to do a lot with like a little like really
Speaker 1: no money, no no organizational abilities necessarily, like you know,
Speaker 1: just a really incredible message and symbolism. I saw that
Speaker 1: they were doing Indie Go Go for like a couple
Speaker 1: of things. But did they are they doing like Kickstarter,
Speaker 1: Like what are they doing? They literally make like like
Speaker 1: they sell t shirts, they sell merch Did they make
Speaker 1: any money when they got sued or when they sued
Speaker 1: Sabrina the Teenage which for using the bathroom at statue
Speaker 1: with Yeah, oh my gosh, they settled, so we don't know, right,
Speaker 1: like we don't know what happened. That was one of
Speaker 1: those things where I was like, that's right, yeah, because
Speaker 1: people were like, they used the statue that seems old,
Speaker 1: but it's actually so recent old you compare them side
Speaker 1: by side, there's really no doubt that whoever designed that
Speaker 1: statue and Sabrina like literally just copied their raft met monuments.
Speaker 1: I mean, but I mean, you know, because it doesn't
Speaker 1: have breasts right right right, it's got those iggy pops
Speaker 1: or that was my favorite part this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: The thing one of the moments that blew my mind
Speaker 1: in this documentary was the fact that the Ten Commandments
Speaker 1: statues were props yes the movie WHOA. I mean, then
Speaker 1: you zoom in on them like I I guess I
Speaker 1: never looked at one of these monuments close enough, and
Speaker 1: they do have so on the tablets, they have a
Speaker 1: picture of tablets and they are the tablets from the
Speaker 1: Ten Commandments. Cecil bea. It was the wildest thing. But
Speaker 1: then the irony of like pure flicks coming back and
Speaker 1: like know funding, it's all like the fact that it
Speaker 1: is like this movie sandwich of just like christianflmaking that
Speaker 1: that gets Ten Commandments on the lawn of of of
Speaker 1: you know, federal and state property. But it's amazing because like,
Speaker 1: you know, you have Senator you know, Jason Rappert or
Speaker 1: any number of kind of contemporary politicians with a completely
Speaker 1: straight face making the argument that the Ten Commandments monuments
Speaker 1: on government property are like a really integral part of
Speaker 1: our American history and heritage. And you're like, you know, DM,
Speaker 1: well where those came from. They came from Bramount Pictures
Speaker 1: to promote a movie starring Charleton Heston. Like so within
Speaker 1: one generation, you know, you've got quite uh what a
Speaker 1: distance you've moved, right, Well, that's like all the Confederate
Speaker 1: monuments are pretty right, right, People think they're like from
Speaker 1: the era, but they're like very recent, specifically built to
Speaker 1: like and they're built by a generation that wasn't in
Speaker 1: the war like but has ranticized it, like you know
Speaker 1: the DW. Griffith generator. Also like none of these statues
Speaker 1: are that old. We can knock them all down or
Speaker 1: you can drive your car into them as we though
Speaker 1: there is another thing. There was another like statue. It
Speaker 1: wasn't from the Ten Commandments. I think there was like us,
Speaker 1: all this ancient Egyptian stuff buried in the sand. Wait
Speaker 1: what there was just like a whole set of an
Speaker 1: ancient civilization that they then filmed on a beach and
Speaker 1: then they just buried on the stand and so it
Speaker 1: became like a buried ancient civilization, but from like a
Speaker 1: movie made in the Can you imagine how many like
Speaker 1: ten year old kids just got so they were like,
Speaker 1: look I found but it's still still just as cool.
Speaker 1: I mean, so much of the movie just becomes like
Speaker 1: about these weird mirrors of like what America is or
Speaker 1: like what people think it is, both on the religious
Speaker 1: front and everything else. Uh. The whole dive into the
Speaker 1: Satanic panic stuff in the eighties, of course, which is
Speaker 1: like totally what fuels I think what the modern imagination
Speaker 1: thinks of as Satanism, like I had never had the
Speaker 1: irony pointed out to me before watching this film that
Speaker 1: like that was really when the height of like the
Speaker 1: pedophilia and the church was running rampant and so like
Speaker 1: it was completely protection. I think Lucian is the person
Speaker 1: who says that in the film, but it's, um it
Speaker 1: was really wild to think about it that way, But um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was not. I was not a sentient being during
Speaker 1: all of that. But I feel like it kind of
Speaker 1: lived on in a way into the nineties. It was
Speaker 1: in the water for a long time. I was thinking
Speaker 1: a lot recently about how there was so much stranger
Speaker 1: danger stuff, and then if you watch a lot of
Speaker 1: true crime stuff, you're like, oh, people shoure what We've
Speaker 1: talked about this before. It was just like, oh, people
Speaker 1: were hitch hiking a lot in the sixties and seventies,
Speaker 1: and then there was a lot of like don't do that,
Speaker 1: and someone might ask you to get in their car.
Speaker 1: You shouldn't go with them. Are you saying that, like
Speaker 1: stranger danger was like a big oil or like a
Speaker 1: like a big airline getting a getting cars with strangers
Speaker 1: that happens, A good story will maybe the next documentary.
Speaker 1: I was curious about Raper who appears in the documentary
Speaker 1: and is just just seems horrible. Um, the Arkansas Senator, Right, yes,
Speaker 1: the Arkansas Senator. Um. Do you think that he had
Speaker 1: kind of an objective view of himself? Like he obviously
Speaker 1: was doing a lot of kind of Facebook live and like,
Speaker 1: you know, seeming very secure that his position was correct
Speaker 1: in having this monument put up. What what was it
Speaker 1: like to kind of be around him and the Satanists
Speaker 1: and like what what would you have described the vibe
Speaker 1: as being. I would say, like he absolutely must be
Speaker 1: smart enough to know what the constitution says, and he
Speaker 1: like literally doesn't care. Because when I was wondering, yes,
Speaker 1: because there are plenty of, um, you know, American politicians
Speaker 1: who are very happy to do things that are unconstitutional
Speaker 1: if it'll get them reelected. And that's the category of
Speaker 1: person Jason rapertson. Like, they're a lots of people who
Speaker 1: are super psyched to vote for a guy who like
Speaker 1: stood up for Christian values, especially against these like Satan bullies,
Speaker 1: you know, coming from Massachusetts, you know, to tell Arkansas
Speaker 1: what to do. You know, so it's just good for
Speaker 1: his politics, and you know, it maybe bad for America
Speaker 1: but it's going to help him get reelected. What was
Speaker 1: the mood like when you were actually shooting some of
Speaker 1: those standoffs between the Bible folks in the church, because
Speaker 1: it seems it was mostly just honestly depressing, I'm sorry
Speaker 1: to say, Like it just felt like so much just
Speaker 1: wilful ignorance, you know, kind of flying around and in
Speaker 1: like weird misplaced fear, like people were like throwing holy
Speaker 1: water at me and like like the little plastic bottle
Speaker 1: somebody makes those, Yeah, like the Chinese corporation that's making
Speaker 1: those little plastic holy water bottles. But I mean it
Speaker 1: was just crazy, like it's like, you know, it didn't
Speaker 1: matter like what the Satanists did. There was a kind
Speaker 1: of a psychosis around like what people thought they were
Speaker 1: doing that wasn't dissimilar to like the Satanic bandic. I mean,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter, like what facts present themselves to you.
Speaker 1: You still like really think you know what's going on
Speaker 1: and it's very upsetting to you and there's just no
Speaker 1: breaking through that. Hey, what does that remind you of?
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, I was wondering also, like what
Speaker 1: did this did you start making this documentary before after
Speaker 1: the election? Before. Oh so what was that like? Like, um, well,
Speaker 1: first of all, the Satanic Temple had a huge spike
Speaker 1: in membership like sign ups in the day after the election,
Speaker 1: particularly surprising, kind of like the Trump bump. Oh my goodness. Um,
Speaker 1: it's just kind of like, you know, it's such desperate
Speaker 1: times that people are like fine, like what do the
Speaker 1: Satanists have to say? Like maybe they can help us,
Speaker 1: you know. Um. But also you know, it did make
Speaker 1: a lot of things feel a lot more urgent, which
Speaker 1: I know we all feel in different ways in our lives,
Speaker 1: like all around us. But suddenly it was like, you know,
Speaker 1: looking at the people that Trump was putting in office,
Speaker 1: and his vice president who's like literally straight theocrat like
Speaker 1: Mike Parents, like proud to be a theocratic, like has
Speaker 1: a theocratic like button on his shirt probably um, you know,
Speaker 1: and like Betsy Divas and other people who are like
Speaker 1: super not that into the whole secular state thing, and
Speaker 1: seeing that kind of um definitely put a little more
Speaker 1: urgency in the whole the whole, the whole story. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, the the kind of way that the discourse,
Speaker 1: as it were, like works in the film really made
Speaker 1: me think about I don't know. I guess we're so
Speaker 1: used to thinking about how this stuff happens online, right,
Speaker 1: and like how trolling has become like this way of
Speaker 1: either gumming up the works are getting stuff done. And
Speaker 1: I think that it was funny because I was recognizing
Speaker 1: a lot of the techniques of the Temple and be like,
Speaker 1: this is like ship posting basically. Yeah, I I want
Speaker 1: to kind of unpack it a little bit, because yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's basically punching up. It's ship posting if you're
Speaker 1: punching up. And uh, I mean I was just like
Speaker 1: losing losing it at the oh god, the baby thing
Speaker 1: at the the baby thing, because it was just so awful,
Speaker 1: Like it just looks so like you just know that
Speaker 1: the people that they're they're intending to push the buttons
Speaker 1: of are having their buttons put and it just it
Speaker 1: just felt like, I don't know, I I kind of
Speaker 1: wonder sometimes about like the endpoint of techniques like that,
Speaker 1: but also in the moment, it feels amazing to watch,
Speaker 1: so for sure. I mean, I think that like the
Speaker 1: whole question of trolling was a really difficult one to
Speaker 1: sort of put my final foot down, you know, like
Speaker 1: I there is an element of trolling that is inherent
Speaker 1: to Satanism. You have to just accept that's true. Um
Speaker 1: that you know, part of the appeal of it is
Speaker 1: watching other people respond to you saying you're a Satanist.
Speaker 1: They get very upset about it, and that is kind
Speaker 1: of fun in a weird way. But for them, I think,
Speaker 1: you know, there's a point to it, Like, you know,
Speaker 1: you destabilize someone, you shock and offend them, and then
Speaker 1: there's like interesting work to be done, you know. And
Speaker 1: so I guess if you're just like trolling for the
Speaker 1: sake of upsetting people and saying, look at how I
Speaker 1: made you upset, ha ha, Now I'm gonna walk away
Speaker 1: like that doesn't accurately describe the Satanic temple, Like they
Speaker 1: want to like upset people and then have a long
Speaker 1: conversation about it. And that was just like I mean,
Speaker 1: there is it is sort of like a marriage of
Speaker 1: doing actions, you know, like occupy or anything like that.
Speaker 1: I mean, what a lot of stuff that Jecks is
Speaker 1: doing felt more along that line or more in that.
Speaker 1: But also get mad if you call yourself a socialist,
Speaker 1: that's true. Yeah, it's kind of becoming And then you
Speaker 1: want to have a long talk with them where you're like,
Speaker 1: let's trap out, let's trap out, friend. It is like
Speaker 1: they are making a point. They bring it up early
Speaker 1: on where they're like, why are people so mad about
Speaker 1: this when what they should be mad about is like
Speaker 1: the suppression of child molestation by people in the church
Speaker 1: for decades. Then they kind of as actually real as
Speaker 1: opposed to like this sort of magical thing like this
Speaker 1: religious hurt my feelings. Yeah, And to draw attention to
Speaker 1: the fact that America is supposedly a nation with freedom
Speaker 1: of religion, but it is like default a Christian, you know,
Speaker 1: themed nation because of all these people like Betsy Divace
Speaker 1: and Mike Penson, people who are in charge of things,
Speaker 1: and there's just like you know, state sanctioned in Islamophobia
Speaker 1: happening all the time, especially now. So to draw attention
Speaker 1: to these things by using Satanism as a tool is smart.
Speaker 1: I think I think so too. And it's also important
Speaker 1: to say that, you know, like trolling is not the
Speaker 1: whole thing, Like I sort of made up this number,
Speaker 1: like ten percent of what they do is really about
Speaker 1: trolling very inward, It's about personal liberation, finding community, expressing
Speaker 1: your authentic values, and most of what they do is
Speaker 1: not public facing, Like they're not running around doing black
Speaker 1: masses on the streets. They're doing them privately behind closed
Speaker 1: doors because it has meaning for them. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, you can't sort of wonder.
Speaker 1: You can't be like, well, how effective is this strategy.
Speaker 1: You have to say, Look, they're saying nests. They don't
Speaker 1: care if you think it's offensive. At the end of
Speaker 1: the day, that's who they are. It's like saying, well,
Speaker 1: don't they know that people hate Satan. Yeah they do.
Speaker 1: But like there's also anti Semitism in the world, and
Speaker 1: no one says, well, why don't Jewish people stop being Jewish?
Speaker 1: Since there are some people out there wait Jewish. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm just saying we wouldn't say that. I was very
Speaker 1: intrigued by the different over the course of the film.
Speaker 1: The temples and their chapters are multiplying across the country. Um,
Speaker 1: and we obviously spent some time with the folks in
Speaker 1: Arkansas and in Detroit. Did you have a sense of
Speaker 1: like the vibe of like an l a Satanic temple
Speaker 1: for example, versus a I don't know, in Idaho one
Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, it's totally. First of all, it's interesting
Speaker 1: it goes against people assume like New York City, l A.
Speaker 1: These are not the big chapters, like you know, because
Speaker 1: there's almost kind of no need for it, Like you
Speaker 1: can just walk down the street and be a Satanist
Speaker 1: kind of no one cares, nobody hairs and it makes
Speaker 1: you normal. You can wear devil, you can wear a
Speaker 1: full bath in that costume on Hollywood. Excuse me, Batham May.
Speaker 1: But then when you get out to like Arizona or Arkansas,
Speaker 1: or Texas or Florida, like that's where the really intense,
Speaker 1: big active chapters really were. Arizona seems really lit. Arizona
Speaker 1: is amazing. I would recommend going to Arizona and going
Speaker 1: to any of their parties because they are having a
Speaker 1: great time. I'm down Field trip. Yeah. I think people
Speaker 1: really need and crave community, and so if if Satanism
Speaker 1: provides this community for people that don't want to be
Speaker 1: in a church but do want to like make friends
Speaker 1: and hang out. I also thought the Seven Tenants were
Speaker 1: just great. I mean it's so early on I was
Speaker 1: like I will be a Satanist, and the more I
Speaker 1: learned them where I was like yes, I will. It
Speaker 1: was a cool little microcosm of this like budding movement
Speaker 1: where you just saw, you know, over the course of
Speaker 1: three years as something can take off and like be
Speaker 1: really needed as part of the discourse. But also like
Speaker 1: the kind of inherent problems when you have a bunch
Speaker 1: of really passionate people who are dealing in the dark arts.
Speaker 1: And so when you have people I mean, I feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's about Satanism specifically, but it could be
Speaker 1: about sort of any kind of group in terms of
Speaker 1: group dynamics and the fact that there's like actually individual
Speaker 1: people with their own personalities who have to like function
Speaker 1: in a group. That is a difficult thing to achieve,
Speaker 1: it sure is, and especially when you're foundational. Religious concepts
Speaker 1: are so much about autonomy, independent thinking, challenging authority, you know,
Speaker 1: rebelling against entrenched power, like I don't know how you're
Speaker 1: supposed to do the whole like being in church and
Speaker 1: having like a boss thing. You know. What makes me
Speaker 1: think about there being not as many people in the
Speaker 1: New York or l A chapters. It's just that like
Speaker 1: even if it's okay to walk down the street wearing
Speaker 1: a bafflement hat, there or whatever, like you still need
Speaker 1: that community. And I think that a lot of people,
Speaker 1: especially people who don't identify with any particular religion of
Speaker 1: religion or were raised religiously and are out of it,
Speaker 1: like they are missing that kind of absolutely yeah, that
Speaker 1: sense of community and interwovenness with a group of people.
Speaker 1: And you don't get it by being an atheist, you don't.
Speaker 1: You don't get that ready made kind of group. And
Speaker 1: so when you asked me before about the different chapters,
Speaker 1: like you know, the New York chapter, for example, does
Speaker 1: a lot of reproductive rights fundraisers in the form of
Speaker 1: like satanic burlesque shows, but they don't have the same
Speaker 1: kind of need to like fight the city council or
Speaker 1: you know any meaning engage in right, but they do
Speaker 1: a lot more tight like sort of social events, fundraising
Speaker 1: events for for causes. Yeah, I mean an as coastal elite,
Speaker 1: we obviously would love to support people that are in
Speaker 1: places where things like reproductive justice are even on the
Speaker 1: table where the Georgia Satanists will join you. Yeah. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, just like a little bit at night, call
Speaker 1: one thing that's nice about doing it this week, get
Speaker 1: calls from all over the place, and a lot of
Speaker 1: people it feels like who listened to the show were
Speaker 1: brought up in a religion. Um interesting, not me personally,
Speaker 1: but Tess and Emily you both had a little bit
Speaker 1: of a bit, just a little bit. Oh, I had
Speaker 1: a lot of it. But yeah, Penny, Yeah you had
Speaker 1: a lot of it. How about you? I had like zero?
Speaker 1: I like whatever the opposite of a little bit is
Speaker 1: for you raised religious at all? Now? I always just
Speaker 1: felt like it was so confusing, Like I never I
Speaker 1: just from the outside was like, what are these people doing?
Speaker 1: Like I just don't get it. And I started this
Speaker 1: particular project, you know, sort of thinking that I was
Speaker 1: making a film about like sort of making fun of
Speaker 1: religious people. And then I came to understand that I
Speaker 1: was making a film about religious people and that I
Speaker 1: thought it was pretty cool. And that's exactly what Emily
Speaker 1: was saying that, Like I realized what I had been missing. Frankly,
Speaker 1: my whole life was you got converted. I almost wish
Speaker 1: I had been converted. It I didn't. I didn't become
Speaker 1: a Satanist, but it did make me kind of yearn
Speaker 1: for that, Like what would it take for me to
Speaker 1: put aside my like bizarre psychotic individualism and like join
Speaker 1: a group like I don't know, I still haven't found
Speaker 1: the group, but it's making me want to find the group,
Speaker 1: you know. No, it's like getting over the American nous
Speaker 1: and all of us just like an individual man. I
Speaker 1: will say, Also, we did an Exorcist episode not that
Speaker 1: long ago around Halloween where Test and Emily both had
Speaker 1: a lot of trouble saying Hail Satan over. I find
Speaker 1: it easier after watching the documentary. I'm like, afterwards, it's fine,
Speaker 1: you giggle, you giggle, and then you remember that really
Speaker 1: what you're saying is like, you know, f theocracy, and
Speaker 1: exactly I love it. I think I think it's interesting
Speaker 1: because I'm like, oh, it's so easy for me or
Speaker 1: like Penny to say it totally. No one ever told
Speaker 1: us not to. My parents were atheists. I just went
Speaker 1: to a religious school and my excited family was very,
Speaker 1: very Catholic. So I went through a phase where I
Speaker 1: was like, you know, the seeds had been sewn and
Speaker 1: your dad told a story the other night about getting
Speaker 1: punched in the face by a nun. Yeah, you know
Speaker 1: that that happened for sure, So maybe I'll convert my
Speaker 1: parents to Satanist. There we go. That's the next step.
Speaker 1: The ministry has begun. Um, well, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for coming by, Penny. This has been so awesome. Thank you.
Speaker 1: It's super fun. A huge fan of the show, so
Speaker 1: it's fun to be here. Awesome. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: We're huge, huge, Thank you so much for coming back someday.
Speaker 1: And especially I think what you're doing, which is making
Speaker 1: documentaries that are really like about politics and satire's very important,
Speaker 1: especially right now. Everybody see Hale Satan. Yeah, April seventeen seventeen,
Speaker 1: that's a Friday, April seventeen, Halee Satan. Yeah. You can
Speaker 1: even go on for twenty and Hale Sate. So you
Speaker 1: could check out our other films as well, check out
Speaker 1: our Nixon, check out Nuts. They're all great. Um, but
Speaker 1: they know you think about the more movie. I know
Speaker 1: we have to depress it. We have to get on that.
Speaker 1: That's our next thing. Um, all right, thanks so much,
Speaker 1: Thanks guys. All right, we wanted to take a couple
Speaker 1: of night calls slash emails because we know it's been
Speaker 1: a second and we are sorry, but we're ready to
Speaker 1: get back into our mailbox. Here. Uh, we have a
Speaker 1: great one from Joe who writes us Howdy nightcall. I
Speaker 1: felt in kind to write you, gals, and I wasn't
Speaker 1: sure what until I remembered something interesting that I had
Speaker 1: written about in college, and it's perfect nightcall fuel. Have
Speaker 1: you ever heard about the occult origins of chiropractic? D? D. Palmer,
Speaker 1: the man who invented chiropractic, was originally a magnetic healer
Speaker 1: who claimed to have cured a man's deafness through chiropractic adjustments,
Speaker 1: which the man fully corroborated. From there, he went on
Speaker 1: to find the Palmer College of Chiropractic in Iowa, which
Speaker 1: is still strong today. In a letter, Palmer wrote that
Speaker 1: he came up with the idea for chiropractic from the
Speaker 1: ghost of a medical doctor, and then he wanted to
Speaker 1: turn chiropractic into a religion. The entire thing actually caused
Speaker 1: a divide in the chiropractic field, which kind of still
Speaker 1: goes on to this day. A professor at my university
Speaker 1: actually wrote a book about chiropractic and how it connects
Speaker 1: to populism and metaphysics. The entire thing is absolutely wild,
Speaker 1: and I wonder what is the night call take on
Speaker 1: chiropractic and other kinds of alternative healing. Thank you for
Speaker 1: reading a happy night call from Joe. Wow, what a
Speaker 1: great call. Such a great night call. I love it. Um.
Speaker 1: I had no idea about any of this stuff. I
Speaker 1: knew that people had said that Cairo practic is I
Speaker 1: guess what the discipline is called was quackery, but I
Speaker 1: didn't really know why. I knew that people were like,
Speaker 1: it's not real medicine. It looks like real medicine, but
Speaker 1: it's this other thing. I thought it was sort of
Speaker 1: like massage therapy or something where it was like not
Speaker 1: technically a doctor, but like it's still good for you
Speaker 1: and feels good. Well, it's like alternative medicine, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't fall within the realm of Eastern medicine. So it's
Speaker 1: like hard to like because I feel like a lot
Speaker 1: of that stuff gets othered because it is Eastern medicine.
Speaker 1: But this is just like Western but not official, official, official,
Speaker 1: like medically right. But also I'm like, Eastern medicine is real.
Speaker 1: This is like somebody made it up, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: Eastern medicine is a discipline. This is like uh on
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Holmes of well, they just like crack your I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I've I I dated somebody once who
Speaker 1: went to a chiropractic a couple of times. I don't
Speaker 1: really they just crack your back, like so what. I
Speaker 1: don't like people do that on there. I I'm personally
Speaker 1: am like completely I hate cracking anything in my body.
Speaker 1: I also feel that way. I love to crack it,
Speaker 1: but I not even your knuckles so good. I can't snap.
Speaker 1: I have to say it. The other day, I was
Speaker 1: cracking my neck and I was like, I could have
Speaker 1: a horror movie where the only horrific scene as a
Speaker 1: person stretching and you hear like crack, crack acking, and
Speaker 1: just hear crack, and then it's like that's it. That's it.
Speaker 1: Ropractic horror. Yeah, I know, that's actually a really unexplored
Speaker 1: genre there. Telling me also about like corn flakes like
Speaker 1: Kellogg was like a weirdo. Oh yeah, all that stuff
Speaker 1: just things that are like we accept as ram crackers,
Speaker 1: the antim Yeah, I mean, I I don't. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't have any experience of this or second hand experience
Speaker 1: of this. I have done. The only kind of Eastern
Speaker 1: thing I've done is um as I've done some acupuncture,
Speaker 1: but not regularly enough where like I know some people
Speaker 1: who do it all the time and they're like, it's
Speaker 1: like a life changer. I have my life before and
Speaker 1: after a certain I think. I also think acupuncture is real,
Speaker 1: although I've never had it done, but I would totally well.
Speaker 1: The crazy thing about acupuncture from when I was doing it,
Speaker 1: and I did it because I had some weird thing
Speaker 1: with my hand where I started to just be like
Speaker 1: overtaken with pain and one of my hands and it
Speaker 1: wasn't ever since we saw Madonna getting naked acupuncture and
Speaker 1: a body of evidence for her cycle. But like I,
Speaker 1: so I went in and I just had it done
Speaker 1: on my my hand and then some on my back
Speaker 1: on my shoulders because I've always had a lot of
Speaker 1: tension there. And the crazy thing about it, at least
Speaker 1: where I did it, and I have no idea what
Speaker 1: the standard is all at all, is that they would
Speaker 1: put like a kind of heater over me. And I
Speaker 1: don't know if it was the heater or if it
Speaker 1: was acupuncture, but like I sweat so much, like it
Speaker 1: wasn't enough heat that it should make me feel like
Speaker 1: I was an assauna, but I was like I was
Speaker 1: sweating like I was an assauna. It was just a
Speaker 1: little heat, so I wouldn't be chilly, um, but I
Speaker 1: was like like pouring sweat, and I was like, there's
Speaker 1: something weird going on here. I don't know what it is,
Speaker 1: but like maybe that you're filled with needles under a heater.
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know, but I thought totally relaxed. Otherwise,
Speaker 1: I was just like, did your hand feel better? That's
Speaker 1: the real question. Yeah, I did it for a boat
Speaker 1: to uh two months, and it felt uh. I felt
Speaker 1: like I would say, fifty percent better after that, and
Speaker 1: then kind of faded away after that, and I have
Speaker 1: I'm reminded of it because it actually came back like
Speaker 1: a little bit recently and I'm like, oh, do I
Speaker 1: need to go back? But so many of these things
Speaker 1: rely on the placebo effect, right, being a psychologically powerful thing,
Speaker 1: because I feel like if you went to a chiropractor
Speaker 1: and you thought your back was going to feel better
Speaker 1: and then it did because you thought it would, you
Speaker 1: like the laying on hands can be you know sometimes
Speaker 1: like it is like people someone feeling around and there
Speaker 1: things are going to pop back into place. I would
Speaker 1: guess you can tell I think people the human touch.
Speaker 1: Maybe no totally, but just like that's the thing with
Speaker 1: massage and like a completely non sexual way too. I
Speaker 1: feel like it gets it goes there all the time,
Speaker 1: but like I don't know, I remember having like a
Speaker 1: long dry spell getting a massage and it's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: like it's sort of nice to be in close proximity
Speaker 1: with somebody, not in a sexy way at all, it's
Speaker 1: just like oh, another human, Like that's yeah. Also though,
Speaker 1: if you ever want to have a fun time. I
Speaker 1: don't know if this is going to be the case
Speaker 1: with any place you look at, but I was looking
Speaker 1: at chiropractors a while ago. My husband had like a
Speaker 1: back problem and I was like, oh, I'll figure out
Speaker 1: what it is, like I'll be a doctor who figures
Speaker 1: it out. And I started looking at chiropractors on Yelp,
Speaker 1: and like the bad chiropractor reviews sure make you be
Speaker 1: like no, thank you, not gonna on this because you're
Speaker 1: just like oh, and then I could and then it
Speaker 1: was like so horrible and so much worse. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't think it's like I don't want to let a
Speaker 1: stranger crack my back, but I I I'm telling you
Speaker 1: that you guys should start cracking your It's amazing once you.
Speaker 1: I don't even know how to well you. Just if
Speaker 1: you want to crack your neck is a good feel
Speaker 1: like you probably side. Yeah, maybe I should not be
Speaker 1: advising a bunch of people you're supposed to do it.
Speaker 1: I think you're supposed to stretch, but when you stretch,
Speaker 1: it's gonna crack. That's all you do is like stretch
Speaker 1: and then jerk, and they want you to do it
Speaker 1: all slow. Or maybe we all have arthritis from sitting
Speaker 1: in front of computers for like five thousand years, which
Speaker 1: is what I personally, we're looking down at screens. I
Speaker 1: also my crazy theory. Yeah, it's my craziest theory. I
Speaker 1: haven't said on dit call yet. I think maybe, boy,
Speaker 1: I think all antidepressants might be placebos. Oh interesting, um,
Speaker 1: but that have something in them that makes you addicted
Speaker 1: to them, so you can't go off them because you
Speaker 1: have There is very fascinating article on antidepressants in the
Speaker 1: New Yorker. I think this current issue right now that
Speaker 1: kind of tracks this woman's going on and off of
Speaker 1: about like ten different antidepressants and like anti psycho psychotics
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, and I think that there's something
Speaker 1: in them. I don't know what it, what it I mean, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's definitely Uh, it's an industry for sure. There's
Speaker 1: something in them and they can't tell you what it is.
Speaker 1: Just to me what signals that it might be pseudoscience
Speaker 1: because they're always like better, but they're like, no one
Speaker 1: can prove it work that way, it sounds a little
Speaker 1: bit like machine. Yeah. Um, I take them because I
Speaker 1: can't stop. But that's how they get you. Who wrote
Speaker 1: the New York article? Is it Rachel Aviv? I can't remember. Oh,
Speaker 1: it is Rachel l. Vive. That's my friend's wife. Okay,
Speaker 1: we have time for one more night call. I'm we're
Speaker 1: working our way through the backlogs, so if you haven't
Speaker 1: heard your nightcall, stay tuned. We'll we'll hopefully answer it soon.
Speaker 1: This one comes from Jewel Hi night Call. I'm emailing
Speaker 1: from the glamorous state of Rhode Island, or, as I
Speaker 1: like to call it, the New Jersey of Boston. I'm
Speaker 1: currently spending time volunteering at my public access station and
Speaker 1: writing my own public access show, which brings me to
Speaker 1: the question, do you have any gems? Of public access
Speaker 1: TV that you have fond memories of, either flipping through
Speaker 1: channels or finding it on YouTube. I'm curious if anything
Speaker 1: has stood out to you. Thanks for the great podcast.
Speaker 1: Best regards, Jewel. I love public access. My favorite public
Speaker 1: access show is Francine Dancer tell Us on l A
Speaker 1: Public Access, which is this woman she would do belly
Speaker 1: dancing and it was just like a half hour of
Speaker 1: her belly dancing. Her name was Francine Dancer. Sometimes she
Speaker 1: like takes some clothes off, but never the full thing,
Speaker 1: which is part of what makes the show just riveting.
Speaker 1: Like maybe this time I loved that show And where
Speaker 1: was that? That was? In? L A. L A had
Speaker 1: some really good public access people. A lot of them
Speaker 1: ended up being on Tim and Eric and the guy
Speaker 1: was like a ventriloquist dummy. They kind of like scraped
Speaker 1: all the good public access people, um except for maybe
Speaker 1: Francine Dancer. I don't know if they got her. She's
Speaker 1: my favorite. And the Unarious March of the Planets, which
Speaker 1: is when Unarious the UFO religion would buy up time
Speaker 1: to show their propaganda, which is amazing, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: can we get that put on? They were like a
Speaker 1: like a guy started a UFO call. It's you know
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff where it's like the rapture, the
Speaker 1: aliens coming, and then um he died, his wife took over.
Speaker 1: There's all. I used the picture of her being the
Speaker 1: Empress of the planets for a call J for DJ
Speaker 1: night maybe. Yeah, they have like a center in southern California.
Speaker 1: We should go too. But they had this thing. It
Speaker 1: was just like these nine or eighties or nineties videos
Speaker 1: that's like a parade where each person is a planet
Speaker 1: and they hold the sign of that planet and they
Speaker 1: wear these amazing robes. It was the best. That's awesome,
Speaker 1: true Hollywood weirdos, great stuff. My dream is that UM
Speaker 1: Nightcall has a weekly public access show. Yeah into our podcast, Yes,
Speaker 1: and Collin Sleazy Friends, which was the show that I
Speaker 1: took the title mall Yeah. Collins Slezy Friends was like
Speaker 1: a public access show where a guy would just interview
Speaker 1: porn stars and comedians in the valley. It was awesome
Speaker 1: and they sold shirts for it at video And my
Speaker 1: great regret is never buying the shirt, you know, the
Speaker 1: Collins shirt. That's the vibe. We're always aiming for public
Speaker 1: access project that I've never seen but my husband grew
Speaker 1: up watching this was on the student channel at u
Speaker 1: n C Chapel Hill, and there was a student run
Speaker 1: and soap opera that ran for I think like decades
Speaker 1: um and like a new class would always take over
Speaker 1: and continue the story and it just went on and
Speaker 1: on and on. I love that idea though, like I
Speaker 1: would totally do that if I was in college. Again,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us this week. We
Speaker 1: will be back next week. But if you have any thoughts, questions,
Speaker 1: comments about the occult cults, public access food, whatever erotic odyssees,
Speaker 1: please give us a call at two four oh four
Speaker 1: six night. You can also drop us in email at
Speaker 1: Night Call Podcast at gmail dot com and if you'd
Speaker 1: like to follow us on social, we are a Night
Speaker 1: Call podcast on Facebook and Instagram and Nightcall Pod on Twitter.
Speaker 1: And make sure that you rate, review and subscribe. If
Speaker 1: you're enjoying the podcast, we will see you back next week. Bye,