1 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Bridget and this is Annie, and you're 2 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: listening the stuff Mom never told you. Now today I'm 3 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: sort of mildly in morning. I guess maybe morning is 4 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: too strong because you know, everyone dies, but we lost 5 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 1: a real one. I am talking none other than the 6 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:35,879 Speaker 1: Queen of Soul herself, Aretha Franklin. She passed away from 7 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:40,480 Speaker 1: pancreatic cancer at the age of seventy six on August six. Now, 8 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 1: something I should sort of right off the bat say, 9 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: is that me with a microphone with free rain to 10 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 1: talk about really any musical icon that I that I admire, 11 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: but especially Aretha Franklin. That is a recipe for a 12 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: six hour podcast that no one would listen to or enjoy. Um. 13 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: So I'll try to rate it in, you know, for 14 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: for that reason, I want to be very clear in 15 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: no way as this episode meant to be a you know, 16 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:10,839 Speaker 1: encapsulation of her entire life. Yes, you're leaving a ton out. Yes, 17 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: there are so so much we could say. I mean, 18 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 1: she's a Queen of Soul, for God's sake, she's royalty. Um, 19 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: but you know, just out of respect, out of r 20 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: E S E E c T for the Queen, we 21 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: had to do a little something really talking about a 22 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,040 Speaker 1: little bit about her life and one of her most 23 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 1: iconic songs, respect Yeah, yeah, I remember the first time 24 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: I heard that song. I remember where I was, and 25 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: I was like back in the time of cassette players, 26 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: and I had recorded it off of the radio with 27 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: like I had one of those really dumb looking child ones, 28 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: you know that was like red and had big yellow 29 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: buttons in the microphone. I held it up to the radio, 30 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: so the sound quality was terrible. I know exactly what 31 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: you're talking about. Had the little chord the microphone had 32 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: that curly chord. Yes, I can. I can see it 33 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: when I shtually close my eyes. I know exactly what 34 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: you're talking about. Yes, I I got it off the 35 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,519 Speaker 1: radio and at the time, like I just remember sitting 36 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: in my room with the lights off and the headphones 37 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: and just like listening to this very poor sound quality 38 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: version of respect via Oh man, it's such I mean, 39 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: it is one of those songs where I feel like 40 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,919 Speaker 1: you remember, if not the first time you heard it, 41 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: you remember the first time you heard it, you know 42 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like, maybe you don't recall the exact 43 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: first time you ever actually heard it, but you remember 44 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: the first time it like hit you. You know, I 45 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: think that we all have that moment. Oh yeah, I'm 46 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: such a fan of a reason Franklin. Um my favorite 47 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,519 Speaker 1: song by her, I mean, there's so many to name, 48 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: but my favorite is probably rock Steady. It's probably her. 49 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: I think it's her funkiest UM. I know, I always 50 00:02:57,440 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: said if I was ever gonna get married, I would 51 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:03,279 Speaker 1: walk down the ile to baby, I love you, um 52 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: because she just had She had this way of capturing 53 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: what it felt like to be in love where it 54 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 1: maybe isn't super clean, maybe it isn't super you know, 55 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: maybe you have a complicated relationship, but you still love 56 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: the person. And you know, there were there are singers 57 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: that sing about love and romantic love where that love 58 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: doesn't feel like the love I've had in my life, 59 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 1: And there are singers that sing about romantic love and 60 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 1: I think that sounds like what my experience has been 61 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: with love. And Arida Franklin is one of those of 62 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: low singers, and I think it's one of the reasons 63 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: why I find myself so drawn to her. So in 64 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: thinking about the song respect, one of the things that 65 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: I think is so tantamount to why that song exists 66 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: as this powerhouse anthem. It is a bit sad, which 67 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: is that she she did have a pretty tough, sad 68 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: upbringing that she wasn't super vocal about. She kind of 69 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: suffered in silence about a lot of the the heavier 70 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: aspects of her life. Yeah, and and for a quick 71 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: kind of early biography. She was born in ninety two 72 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: in Memphis as the fourth of her mother's five children, 73 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: but her home wasn't a stable one. Her mother, Barbara's 74 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 1: siggers Franklin Um, who had a child from a previous relationship, 75 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: left the family when Aretha was six years old, and 76 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: many characterized her leaving as abandonment, but Franklin starkly disputed 77 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: this idea quote. In no way, shape, form or fashion 78 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: did our mother desert us, she wrote in her autobiography 79 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: Aretha from these Roots, she was extremely responsible, loving and caring. 80 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 1: After her mom died when she was ten, her father, 81 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: Reverend Clarence Lavan otherwise known as C. L. Franklin, moved 82 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: the family to Detroit. Um. So I should say a 83 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 1: lot of information that we have here are from various 84 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: newspaper accounts and interviews and so we say where those 85 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: are where that is the case. But the you kind 86 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 1: of biggest definitive books about her life are one the 87 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: book that you just mentioned Annie, her autobiography Aretha from 88 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: These Roots, and to the book Respect the Life Worth 89 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: to Franklin. Now, the same writer worked on both of 90 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: these books. David Ritz was her biographer, and so Ritz 91 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: and her partnered for her her autobiography Aretha. But the 92 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: book Respect Areta actually wasn't so into that book. I 93 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: just need to say that as a disclaimer. Um she 94 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: just she says that the book is full of lies 95 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: and distortions and all of that. So to be very clear, 96 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: she pushed back on a lot of how Ritz characterized 97 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: her in that book, despite the fact they had worked 98 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: together on her actual autobiography years earlier. So this is 99 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: a disclaimer for the information that we're getting. So according 100 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 1: to that that book by Ritz, her father, this this 101 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: reverend Uh, I guess we could say that he was 102 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: conventional guy. Um Rich alleges that his congregation was sort 103 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: of a sexually hedonistic place, that he was a bit 104 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: of a playboy, and that his his church services would 105 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:17,359 Speaker 1: often turn into you know, I mean, he uses the 106 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: word Orgies. I don't. I didn't want to say that. 107 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: But and he actually has this anecdote that Rayed Charles, 108 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: who if you know about rached Charles's life, he was 109 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: someone who was you know, he liked the ladies and 110 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: he likes he liked to party. That one day that 111 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 1: Rayed Charles went to her father's UH congregation and was 112 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: shocked and appalled by what he saw because it was 113 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 1: that hedonistic Um again pointing out that Aretha Franklin claims 114 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: that this this book is full of distortions and lies 115 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: and none of this ever happened. Um, but that is 116 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: how he characterized her father, and her father was a 117 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 1: very big part of who raised her after her mother 118 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: left their family. Yeah, and Um Franklin. Aretha Franklin had 119 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: her first child at twelve, and she later dropped out 120 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 1: of school to focus on her singing. Quote. We were 121 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: part of that generation of young female singers who definitely 122 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: sacrificed time with our kids to attend to our careers. 123 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: We did so knowingly, That's what Franklin's eldest sister said 124 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: in the book. We also did so with heavy guilt. 125 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: She continued, Yeah, it seems like they were just part 126 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: of that generation where if you had a dream, you know, 127 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: I mean, it's difficult to be a woman with a 128 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: creative ambitions in general, but if you had a dream, 129 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: you kind of had to figure out how you were 130 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: going to make make it all work. And you know, 131 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: she was a very early mother and figuring out how 132 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: to navigate that. It's hard enough, but figuring how to 133 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: how to navigate that and the ambitious dream. And I 134 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: can't imagine how how pulled she must have felt in 135 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: multiple directions. Her grandmother also had a big hand in 136 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: raising her children. I still wanted to get out and 137 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: hang out with my friends, Franklin told ebany In about 138 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 1: being a young mother. Um, and she continued, I wanted 139 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: to be in two places at the same time. But 140 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: my grandmother helped me a lot, and my sister and 141 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 1: my cousin they would babysit so I could get out occasionally. Oh, 142 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: I relate to wanting to be in two places at 143 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: the same time so much. Yeah, she probably wanted to 144 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: be there with her kids, but also wanted to be 145 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: singing on the road performing because that was her passion. 146 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: And again she said, interesting illustration of being in a 147 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: society that makes you choose. You know you can't. You 148 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:35,959 Speaker 1: don't feel right about being able to do them both, 149 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 1: and so you you end up with this longing of 150 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: if only I could be in two places at once. 151 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: And Franklin also survived an abusive marriage. She married her manager, 152 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: Ted White in nineteen sixty one when she was just nineteen, 153 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: but after seven years of marriage, they separated in nineteen 154 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: sixty eight. The end of their marriage was dogged by 155 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: reports of domestic abuse, and White quote roughed her up 156 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: more than once. According to a nineteen sixty eight Time story, 157 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: it was not the first incident. I don't think she's happy. 158 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: Somebody else is making her sing the blues, Franklin's friend 159 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: and fellow gospel singer Melia Jackson told Time Quote Ugly 160 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 1: physical fights were not unusual between White and Franklin. Rits wrote, 161 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: as reported by The New York Times, and this is 162 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: I think why I identify so much with her her music, 163 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: because I don't feel like they glamorize being in love 164 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: with someone who is awful for you. But I think 165 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: that they speak to like what that feels like in 166 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: a way that I think is really authentic and also 167 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: authentic for the time, you know, Like, I think that 168 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: the way that she put that bluesy pain over what 169 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: it felt like to be in love with someone who 170 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 1: was awful for you and that you knew was no good, 171 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: I think nobody did that like her. And when I 172 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: hear her music, it's like I asked, Like I hear 173 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,199 Speaker 1: it with my bones. It's like I understand even It's 174 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 1: like I understand what she's sang and what she's not saying. 175 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 1: And I think that a lot of people say that 176 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: Her nineteen sixty seven classic I Never Loved a Man 177 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 1: the Way I Love You is about those times with 178 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: her husband. The song says, I don't know why I 179 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 1: let you do these things you do to me. My 180 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: friends keep telling me that you ain't no good, But 181 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: oh they don't know that I'd leave you if I could. 182 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:20,839 Speaker 1: I never loved a man the way that I love you. 183 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 1: She sings, um, and here's a bit of a song 184 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: You'll lie, and oh why let you do these things? 185 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: You can really hear how she uses her her gift, 186 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:47,559 Speaker 1: her her voice, her soul, her song, her passion to 187 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: say so much. And I think that that's why I 188 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: love her work, is that she is so authentically herself, 189 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 1: and that you can really hear that she's putting all 190 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: of her pain, all of her longing, all of her trauma, 191 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: all of her regret into her song, even if the 192 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: lyrics are kind of you know, straightforward, when you hear it, 193 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,719 Speaker 1: when you when when you hear that song, you understand 194 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: all that she's up against, all that she's dealing with, 195 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: and and just like you, you you hear it like you. 196 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: I don't know how else to put it, like you really, 197 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: you know, sometimes you hear music and sometimes you feel music, 198 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: and I feel like I feel her songs. Yeah, I 199 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: completely agree. And that's really why I wanted to open 200 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: up today's show with talking about some of the more, 201 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 1: you know, difficult aspects of her life is because I 202 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,959 Speaker 1: think that's why we have so much of her great art, 203 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 1: because she puts all of her pain into song, which 204 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: leads us to respect, which we'll talk about after this 205 00:11:48,679 --> 00:12:04,719 Speaker 1: quick break and we'rebecca, Thank you sponsor. So again, there 206 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: are so many songs read this that I love. What's 207 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: your favorite to read the Franklin song? Is it respect? 208 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: It might be um it makes me like like I'm 209 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: just making this motion with my body that no one 210 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: can see. It makes me feel powerful. It makes me 211 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: want to like get up and do something, which I 212 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: love it. It moves me to movement. Oh good, dude, good, 213 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: I guess I mean that's like, that's yes, it moves 214 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: you to movement. And again, respect is a no anthem 215 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: right like that, like that when you think about like 216 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: there's a scene in Bridget Jones which he tells off 217 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: her boss and they play that though just those notes 218 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: where it's like you feel it in your spine. It 219 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: is a It is a song that moves you to movement. 220 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 1: And I think that the reason why that song is 221 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: because she took all of this crap that she dealt 222 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: with in her life and she put it on that record. 223 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: She made she she made you feel it that I 224 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: have put up with a wall of and I'm putting 225 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,079 Speaker 1: up with it no more. And I am not asking 226 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: for demanding respect. Yeah. And I actually didn't know that 227 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: it was a cover of a nineteen sixty seven Otis 228 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: Redding song. Yeah, I mean again, because it's she made 229 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: it her own. She made it so iconic. A lot 230 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: of people don't know what's actually a cover. Rita Franklin 231 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: told The Washington post in. I liked his version, of course, 232 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,559 Speaker 1: I felt I could bring something new to it. Understatement 233 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: of the century, I think She's she definitely succeeded in that. 234 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,079 Speaker 1: I haven't heard the other one. I mean, it's it's 235 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: it's different. It's good. I otis Otis Redding is a 236 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: is a an icon himself. It's good. But it's one 237 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: of those rare songs where the cover is just the 238 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 1: version of the song. You know, they're there are songs 239 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: that when you think of, you know, you know, maybe 240 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: you know they're covers. I'm trying to think of some examples. Heard. Okay, 241 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: that's a good example. Right. I was gonna say, people 242 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 1: are probably gonna write it and be like, how dare 243 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,319 Speaker 1: you say that? You know this cover is better than 244 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: that version? But isn't the Johnny Cash When is the 245 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: last time you put on nine inch Nail's version of her? Right? Like? 246 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: The Johnny Cash version is the version that we remember? Yeah, 247 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: and even I would say, like, I appreciate both versions, 248 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: and I feel like they're two completely different songs even 249 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: though they're the same song. I feel like something different 250 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: is being communicated in both of them, which is really 251 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: interesting and it shows the power of music. But I 252 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: mean in this case, I just reading is is an 253 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: icon in his way, and and I probably am going 254 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: to go look up his version. I would suspect it 255 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: just communicates a different vibe, and we do. We're going 256 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: to talk about the lyrics as well, because that kind 257 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: of shifted to yeah, it's you're you're exactly right. It 258 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: does communicate a different vibe. According to Ritzen's Respect, the 259 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: song was already part of Aretha's live show by nineteen 260 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: sixty six. In the book, the producer Jerry Wext sort 261 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: of recounts a conversation with Ted White Franklin, who again 262 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: was then her probably abuse of husband and manager. Wexer 263 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: was looking for songs that Franklin could record and he 264 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: was like, I'm fine with respect as long as she 265 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: changes it up from the original, and her husband said, 266 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: you don't got to worry about that. Wet she changes 267 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: it up all right again understatement of the century. Um, 268 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: just to go back to covers. Also, I have to 269 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: say something a little bit controversial. Uh. I think people 270 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 1: are going to write in for this. I think that 271 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: Nirvana's cover of Man That Sold the World is the 272 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: definitive version of that song, not David Bowie's, even though 273 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: it's really good. And so this is one of those 274 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: rare cases where the cover is the or also Amy 275 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: Winehouse's version of Valerie right like it's one. Sometimes it 276 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: happens with the cover is the is the song and 277 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: the origin all it's just sort of, you know, an afterthought. 278 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: I will say as someone who is um, I don't 279 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: want to connoisseur is probably not the right word. But 280 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: I've listened to many, many, many versions of Smooth Criminal 281 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: and I, oh my god, I know where you're going 282 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: with this. No, it's not alien at farm. I know 283 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: what she's thinking. What I find interesting about covers of 284 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: that song is there almost all completely different, but my 285 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: favorite one is actually by two Cellos. Isn't exciting for 286 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: my personality? Probable? It is also kind of I don't 287 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: know if you're comfortable if you're telling you the story. 288 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: When we first met, I was like I think I was. 289 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, Annie, are you okay? And you 290 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: were like that song? Yeah. I didn't know that was 291 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: a song until high school. So when people would ask 292 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: me any are you okay? I was like, why, what's wrong? 293 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: What do I look like? Something's wrong. And then I 294 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: didn't realize till people sang it. As I crossed to 295 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: the high school graduation. I was like, ah, yes, it 296 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: must have been a song all these years. I love it. 297 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: I love it. Yeah, So I want to if you 298 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: should people should write in what cover This is a 299 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: good question, right in what cover versions of songs do 300 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: you think surpass the original? Allah Otis writing and Franklin 301 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 1: respect So that is that is something I'd be very 302 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: very curious to know about. As any mentioned earlier, a 303 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: retas version it flips the script gender wise from otis 304 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: writings version. The original is a male speaker asking a 305 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 1: woman who he is presumably bankrolling, to respect him. Reading 306 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: sings do me wrong, honey, if you want to, you 307 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 1: can do me wrong honey while I'm gone, for example, 308 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: and Franklin saying I ain't gonna do you wrong while 309 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 1: you're gone. I ain't gonna do you wrong because I 310 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 1: don't want to. She also added on became the song's 311 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 1: signature line, R S P E C T. Find out 312 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: what it means to me? Yeah, Rid, sorry, that's that's 313 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: not meant to be in the Franklin impression. I also 314 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: just got over laryngitis. Sorry, don't I mean yeah, I'm 315 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 1: not a singer. I thought that was pretty good. I 316 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 1: could see you singing at karaoke. Oh I love karaoke. 317 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 1: I've definitely sang respect at karaoke. And like two years ago, 318 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,919 Speaker 1: me and my friends got like low key asked to 319 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: leave a bar because he wouldn't stop singing Natural Woman. 320 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 1: We're very drunk. I love it. We were very drunk, 321 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 1: and it was it was like four pr on a 322 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 1: Sunday or not the vibe to be singing natural Woman 323 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: at the top of ours, and like the whole rest 324 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: of the bar cleared out. It was just you and 325 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: your friends basically. Peter Gerlini, the author of Sweet Soul Music, 326 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 1: Rhythm and Blues, and The Southern Dream of Freedom, points 327 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: out that Rita transformed the original meaning quote not so 328 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: much by changing the lyrics as by the feeling that 329 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: she imparted on the song, so that respect became a 330 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 1: proclamation of freedom, a proclamation of feminism, and a proclamation 331 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 1: of an independent spirit. Hell yeah, yeah, that's the feeling 332 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:14,400 Speaker 1: I feel when I hear that, for sure. She also 333 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 1: added the line that is often misheard, like people when 334 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: you are singing this song, it's like that line that 335 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 1: people people are people say r E s p e 336 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 1: c t find out what it means to me r 337 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: E s PCT. And then there's that part where people 338 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: are sort of like mom because no one knows what 339 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 1: she's saying. Well, she's actually saying take care of TCB, 340 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,440 Speaker 1: which is taking care of business. So like taking care 341 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 1: of taking care of business. So next time you're singing 342 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: that song of karaoke, you're welcome. But that's what it means. 343 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:45,639 Speaker 1: You're going to really impress some people in the crowd. 344 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: For sure, you are. You are. But she added that 345 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 1: as well, um as well as adding that ending that 346 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: ending refrain Socca to me, Socca to me, Socca to me, 347 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: Socca to socke, to taco to me, Socca to me. Yeah, 348 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 1: And she told Fresh Air interview, my sister Caroline and 349 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: I got together, her sisters Caroline and Irma sang backup 350 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,400 Speaker 1: on the original song by the way, on the original recording, 351 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: UM Piano by the window watching the cars go by, 352 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: and we came up with that infamous line, the socket 353 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 1: to me line. It was a cliche of the day. 354 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: Some of the girls were saying that the fellows like 355 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 1: sock it to me this way or sock it to 356 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: me that way. Um, And she added that the phrase 357 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: wasn't supposed to be sexual. It can simply mean something 358 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 1: like tell me or give it to me straight. Jerry 359 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 1: Wextor told her biographer that in her version of the song, 360 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: the call for respect went from a request to a demand, 361 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: and by using slang that her and her sisters and 362 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 1: her kind of on the streets and in women just 363 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 1: casually talking to their men, shed becast a song from 364 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: a specifically female perspective. It is a song written by 365 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,640 Speaker 1: Otis Fredding, who was considered obviously one of the most 366 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 1: iconic soul men of all time. Right And Robica, a 367 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 1: professor of African, African American and Caribbean studies the University 368 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: of Colorado, Boulder and the author of the hip hop 369 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 1: movement from R and B to the Civil rights movement 370 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: to wrap to the hip hop generation. It's an now 371 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: whole told box, but a Reata snatches the song away 372 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: and reinfuses it with these second wave feminist sensibilities. In 373 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: that same Fresh Air interview we mentioned above, Areta said 374 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: in later times it was picked up as a battle 375 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 1: cry in the Civil Rights movement, but when I recorded it, 376 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: it was pretty much a male female kind of thing, 377 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,439 Speaker 1: and more in a general sense, from person to person, 378 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 1: I'm going to give you respect, and I'd like you 379 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: to have that respect back, or I expect respect to 380 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 1: be given back. Despite these intentions and because of a 381 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: deep need, the song took on a larger residence culturally. Yeah, 382 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 1: And she wrote in her autobiography, so many people identified 383 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 1: with and related to respect. It was the need of 384 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 1: a nation, the need of the average man and woman 385 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: on the street, the businessman, the mother, the fireman, the teacher. 386 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 1: Everyone wanted respect. It was also one of the battle 387 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 1: cries of the Civil Rights movement. The song took on 388 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 1: monument to significance, and I think that's why respect has 389 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: such meeting, particularly for women. You know, Franklin had her 390 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 1: first kid at twelve, she was involved in abusive relationships 391 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,199 Speaker 1: and just being a woman, especially a black woman, especially 392 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 1: an outspoken black woman in that industry at that time, 393 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,879 Speaker 1: She's probably dealt with a wall of craft like I 394 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 1: can only imagine. And so singing in that song, singing 395 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: about you know, a demanding respect from men, but society, 396 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: I mean, professor Roberta points out this is a pre 397 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: me too movement, he said, but also a lot of 398 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 1: women knew this sister at Aretha was singing from a 399 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: pit of pain in a patriarchal society. He added, love 400 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: is political, and I think that's what that really gets 401 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: at why I'm so fascinated by her, because we had 402 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,959 Speaker 1: the same that I think older feminists especially are very 403 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 1: fond of. You know, the personal is political. I think 404 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: that nobody bridges that gap quite like Aretha Franklin. Nobody 405 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 1: makes that point that listen. I I'm dealing with both 406 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: from my partner, both from my label, both from my industry, 407 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: both from society, both from lawmakers, both from the president. 408 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 1: It's all intertwined and it's not okay, and I demand 409 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 1: that it stopped right Like, she just really puts that 410 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 1: into conversation of why for feminists, for women, the personal 411 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: is political, and she, just like nobody makes it sound better. Yeah. 412 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,360 Speaker 1: And this song was recorded during a time of political 413 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 1: and social shifts. Here's how Cleveland dot Com puts it. 414 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 1: Every seven, the Vietnam War raged anew in the aftermath 415 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: of a fleeting truce. Back home, battles are being fought 416 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,400 Speaker 1: on other fronts, with the civil rights movement and women's 417 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: movement fully mobilized. Two days earlier, speaking at the Lincoln 418 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 1: Memorial in Washington, d C. On the anniversary of Abraham 419 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: Lincoln's birth, President Lyndon Johnson called for an end to racism, 420 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: which he condemned as man's ancient curse and man's present shame. 421 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 1: A few months later, Johnson was signed in an executive 422 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: order that expanded affirmative action legislation to cover sex discrimination. 423 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: Valentine's Day fell on a Tuesday that year in New 424 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 1: York City. The weather was unseasonably mild, and inside the 425 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 1: Broadway Recording studios of Atlantic Records, an African American woman 426 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 1: and her youthful prime pounded a piano and began to 427 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 1: sing what you want, Baby, I got it what you need? 428 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: You know I got it. You know I got all 429 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: I'm ask you can. I know you've got pipe dandie 430 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: if you want, I'm a steady above average. That's it. 431 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: All I'm asking is for a little respect when you 432 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: come home, hey baby. Her name was Aretha Franklin. Soon 433 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: she would be hailed as the Queen of Soul and 434 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: respect would stand as their crowning achievement. I die. I 435 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: love it so much, I die. And yeah, you can 436 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,199 Speaker 1: really see how not only was the this song a 437 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: pivotal moment in her professional career, it was a pivotal 438 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: moment for the country. The country was changing the role 439 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: of women, the role of people of color, you know, 440 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: the country. We were at this massive precipice. And it's 441 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: almost as if she struck right at that time and 442 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: cut into what we were all feeling in our in 443 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 1: our romantic lives, but in our in our social and 444 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 1: political lives as well. Yeah, it was she came along 445 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: at the perfect moment, right when it needed the ample 446 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: to be struck exactly. And I think that people forget 447 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: that she was actually a huge part of the civil 448 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 1: rights movement. Yeah, she she grew up in the movement. 449 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: Rebaka said, um quote, her work has a particular meaning 450 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: for the Black freedom movement, for the civil rights movement, 451 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: for the Black power movement, and for the black women 452 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: involved in the women's liberation movement at that time. Civil 453 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: rights workers would see her at a fundraiser right next 454 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: to Martin Luther King Jr. Raising funds for the movement, 455 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,959 Speaker 1: and then hear her records on the radio. I love it. 456 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: One of my favorite little known Aretha Franklin stories. And 457 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:05,719 Speaker 1: if you if you follow me on Instagram, which if 458 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: you want tidbits about women in music, because that's literally 459 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,919 Speaker 1: the only thing I care about, you should I'm at 460 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 1: bridget Brian d c follow me if you if that's 461 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 1: your thing. But I posted it there so you may 462 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,719 Speaker 1: have already seen this, so if you're hearing it twice, sorry, 463 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 1: But one of my favorite stories about her that I 464 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,440 Speaker 1: feel like gets sort of overlooked is that when Angela 465 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: Davis was arrested. So if you don't know who Angela 466 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 1: Davis was, she is a political activist and scholar who 467 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,639 Speaker 1: was arrested and charged with murder in a connection with 468 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: a California courtroom shootout with police in which four people 469 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: were killed. She was later acquitted, but at the time 470 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: she was arrested and Aretha Franklin was not going to 471 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: let this stand. She told Jet magazine quote, black people 472 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: will be free. Jail is hell to be in. I'm 473 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: going to see her free if there's any justice in 474 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: our courts. Not because I believe in communism, but because 475 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: she is a black woman and she wants freedom for 476 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: black people, and she ended up but you know, pledging 477 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: to post her bail if she was not freed. And 478 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 1: her explanation for it was so great. She basically said, 479 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: this is my money. I made this money because black 480 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: people bought my records. Angela Davis wants black people to 481 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: be free or go. This is my responsibility as a 482 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 1: black woman who has money. And she goes on to 483 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 1: say probably one of my favorite Aretha Franklin my quotes 484 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: of all time. She just really saying something, I know, 485 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,880 Speaker 1: you got to disturb the piece when you can't get 486 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 1: no peace. And I love that, Like, think about her 487 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: iconic voice. That's exactly what she did. When you think 488 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 1: of that song. That is a song that cuts through 489 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 1: the bs, and that is what she was all about. 490 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 1: I mean, you gotta respect, you gotta gotta gotta R 491 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: s p e c t it too. I had to 492 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: make too many of those jokes throughout this episode. I 493 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 1: know this is we had a counter on this episode 494 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,360 Speaker 1: would be like seventeen R s p ec teeth lay 495 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: and then a separate counter for poor attempts at singing listen. 496 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,439 Speaker 1: I never said I was a queen of soul. Oh no, 497 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: we never claimed it, but we took a stab at it. 498 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: You know, I'll take Princess of Soul or like Duchess 499 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: of Soul. I'll be like, what is it, oh gesture 500 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: of soul? Oh I love that. Okay, this is we're 501 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: on that something here we are. So this iconic song 502 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 1: actually took up quite an interesting uh legacy in terms 503 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: of copyright and legality and all of that stuff, which 504 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: we'll get more into after this quick break and we're back. 505 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 1: Thanks you sponsor. Now, something that I really didn't know 506 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: much about, which I found fascinating, is that, because it's 507 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: a cover, Franklin's Respect actually became kind of a rally 508 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: cry around copyright law. Under US copyright law, American radio 509 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: stations pay only the writers and publishers of a song, 510 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: not artists who performed them. That means that every time 511 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 1: Respect is played on the radio readings, the state and 512 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 1: Redding died in a plane crash has been paid. Franklin 513 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 1: never was. That is shocking. It is shocking, especially, I 514 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: mean especially listen, no disrespect to Otis Reddigg, But Averytha Franklin, 515 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: that is her song, like she like that is her song. 516 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 1: People don't think of Otis Redding doing Respect. That is 517 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: her song. Absolutely and also even even if not, even 518 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: if you're generous instead if not, it's a different She 519 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: transformed that song from what he was singing. Yes, yes, 520 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: it's all I mean, it's almost like they're different songs. Yeah, 521 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: I kind of feel that way. And again disclaim I 522 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: haven't heard it, but I'm very much getting that vibe. No, 523 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 1: I have heard it. Notice Clay reading their different songs. 524 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: I'm gonna, I'm gonna. I'm gonna say that, Yes, don't 525 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: add me their different songs. So efforts to change the 526 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: law go back decades, with Respect often held up by 527 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: the music industry as exhibit A for why it was unfair. 528 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: But broadcasters, which are pretty powerful lobbying group, have successfully 529 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 1: argued that performers already benefit from the promotion they received 530 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 1: from radio play, which is bs because you know your legacy, 531 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: your a state can't eat promotion. You know that's that's 532 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 1: not I don't appropriate argument. No. The Universal Music Publishing Group, 533 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 1: which controls retting songwriting copyright, declined to say how much 534 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: this song has earned, but the licensing agency b m 535 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: I said that Respect had been played seven point four 536 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: million times on commercial radio stations in the United States 537 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: since it was released. So think about how much money 538 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: that is, you know, for for real, Yeah, and she 539 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: sees none of it. It's so unfair. Yeah. An economist 540 00:30:55,520 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 1: Barry master Ski, who specializes in valuing music catalogs, estimated 541 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 1: that over the last five years alone, Respect has earned 542 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: about five hundred thousand dollars, about of that from commercial 543 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: radio and the rest from television and streaming services. Yeah. 544 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: According to Mitch Glazer, the president of the Recording Industry 545 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: Association of America, he says, quote, some recordings more clearly 546 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: highlight the inequality of the laws, and Respect is one 547 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: of the best examples. And again, in recent years, Respect 548 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 1: has become a battle song and a fight over digital rights. 549 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: Laws passed in the nineteen nineties let performing artists collect 550 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 1: royalties from internet and satellite radio, but songs were exempt 551 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: if they were recorded before a change in federal copyright 552 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: law took effect in nineteen twoteen bill to change that 553 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 1: was named the Respect Act in honor of the song. 554 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 1: A lobbying campaign was titled It's a Matter of R. E. 555 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: S P E c T. With Franklin's approval, and a 556 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 1: current bill in Congress. The Music Modernization Act would force 557 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: digital radio services to pay royalties for songs recorded before 558 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two. I have to add, it's a good 559 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 1: thing that they know that that that campaign had Aretha's 560 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 1: you know, blessing, because this is one of my other 561 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: favorite things about Rtha Franklin. If Aretha Franklin didn't with you, 562 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: she really didn't with you. And so if you like, 563 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: nobody threw shade like Aretha Franklin. Okay, so again, this 564 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 1: is not a podcast about how great Aretha Franklin was 565 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 1: at throwing shade, although I would listen to that, and 566 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 1: we should make a follow up. But in n New 567 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: York Post, columnist Liz Smith wrote about Aretha Franklin's outfit, 568 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 1: she must know that she's too busy me to wear 569 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: such clothing, but she doesn't care what we think. And 570 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: that attitude is what separates mere stars from true diva's. 571 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: So you might be thinking, oh, that sounds like a compliment. 572 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: You know who didn't find that compliment, Aretha Franklin. Aretha 573 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: Franklin wrote a response to her like wrote this out 574 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: to her. How dare you be so presumptuous as to 575 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: presume you could know my attitudes with respect to anything 576 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: other than music. Obviously, I haven't a hope what it 577 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: takes to wear a boost tier, and I haven't had 578 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: any complaints. I'm sure if you could, you would. When 579 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: you get to be a noted and respected fashion editor, 580 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 1: please let us all know Everytha. Frank p S. You 581 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: are hardly in any position to determine what separate stars 582 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: from diva's since you are neither one nor an authority 583 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: on either. Wow, it's so good. So what's what I'm 584 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: saying is I'm glad this campaign got her permission because 585 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 1: if they had not and she was knocked down with it, 586 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: they would have heard about it, and they would have 587 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: heard about it, like in a very cutting way, knowing her. 588 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 1: Another another cool thing is that Otis Redding's family is 589 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: supportive of this bill even while they are benefiting from 590 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 1: money from the song, and they may profit from the song, 591 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 1: including his daughter Carla Redding Andrews, who has supported changing 592 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 1: the law covering pre nineteen two songs. And it does 593 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 1: kind of sound like this sort of thing. It's a 594 00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: holdover from these terrible, terrible industry actasis of yester year. 595 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 1: And I'm sure these practices are like not you know, 596 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: dead and buried at all. Jeff Jamboul, who manages the 597 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,760 Speaker 1: States for people like Franklin and Redding, said that unfair 598 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,879 Speaker 1: financial treatment was built into the fabric of their early 599 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 1: careers and the music industry has not fully made amends. 600 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 1: He says, the record business has a long history of 601 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: treating artists like chattel slavery. We've grown out of those 602 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: dark ages a bit, but when it comes to actually 603 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,280 Speaker 1: paying them fairly, that is the last needle to move. 604 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 1: And Yeah, I think that knowing all of this about 605 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 1: her legacy and this song, I mean, she is a 606 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:39,400 Speaker 1: woman who dealt with so much, and I mean I 607 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 1: I think she's had national treasure. I think that there 608 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 1: are there a few people that I've considered to be 609 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 1: national treasures when it comes to music, and she's one 610 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,840 Speaker 1: of them. Yeah, And from what little I know about 611 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 1: copyright lit, it does seem it seems like the whole 612 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: thing needs a rehall. It seems like a lot a 613 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,360 Speaker 1: lot needs to change there. Definitely. Yeah, she was she 614 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 1: was the first woman to be inducted into the Rock 615 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,919 Speaker 1: and Roll Hall of Fame. Like, she's a national icon 616 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 1: and we need to be I'm just gonna say it. 617 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,840 Speaker 1: I won't say it. We need to be respecting. I 618 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 1: won't spell it out to Warren. I'll show a little 619 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: straight We need know I'm gonna do it. We need 620 00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 1: to rsp ecd her legacy. Boom, the counter just went 621 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: up another notch. It had to happen. It had to happen. 622 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 1: So this this has been our episode on Aretha Franklin, 623 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 1: and specifically on respect. She gave a lot of us 624 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 1: so much, She gave this country so much, so it 625 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 1: was it was sad and rewarding to to talk about her. Yeah, 626 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 1: I wish her family peace, and I mann I want 627 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,319 Speaker 1: to get emotional. I just really really respect her and 628 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 1: I have nothing but reference for her, and I love 629 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 1: her so much, and I'm so so glad we got 630 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 1: to have her for a little while. I'm sure that 631 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 1: Aritha and Whitney are up in heaven right now causing 632 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 1: all kinds of drama, soide you know, I'm sure that 633 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 1: is a wonderful mental image. And with that that brings 634 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,840 Speaker 1: us to the end of this episode. In the honor 635 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 1: of our of our Queen of Soul, we would like 636 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: to move into listener mail with a little taste of 637 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 1: what she gave us. Yes c our first letter comes 638 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: from Caitlin. Caitlin wrote, I had a weird aha moment 639 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 1: while listening to your Cool Girl episode. I am a 640 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: professor at a state university in an engineering department. In 641 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: my engineering college, female faculty make up less than twenty 642 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 1: of the faculty, and this summer I joined the ranks 643 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 1: of tenured faculty. I think there are nine women with 644 00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:03,239 Speaker 1: tenure out of one d and thirty ish faculty. Not surprisingly, 645 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: we women face some unusual challenges in the classroom. I 646 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,360 Speaker 1: reached out for help countless times with discipline problems in 647 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,239 Speaker 1: my classes, particularly from bros. As my friends and I 648 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:19,000 Speaker 1: have nicknamed the typical difficult archetype. The suggestions from mostly 649 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,840 Speaker 1: senior male colleagues to cope is quote, lay down the law, 650 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 1: assume more authority, it's your classroom, demand respect. It's on 651 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 1: the reasons I included this letter in the episode. It's 652 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:34,680 Speaker 1: about respect. Um. She goes on each and every time 653 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,360 Speaker 1: I've done this behavior and my class blows up in 654 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 1: my face. Here comes my aha moment. My students, particularly 655 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,919 Speaker 1: the bros, expect me to be a cool girl. Am 656 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 1: I a young woman? Rocking a traditionally male dominated field. Yes, 657 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,239 Speaker 1: am I comfortable talking about car engines and how to 658 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:55,800 Speaker 1: turn into energy? Yes? Does that earn me some cred 659 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 1: with my students? Yes? But like a cool girl, my 660 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 1: students expect me to be on, flappable and accommodating. You 661 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,320 Speaker 1: need extra time on your homework? Sure, no problem struggling 662 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,480 Speaker 1: with an assignment. Let me give you the answer. It 663 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 1: will be our secret. You cheated on an exam, you 664 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:13,919 Speaker 1: must have a good reason for it. Will work something out. 665 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,239 Speaker 1: When I don't behave as expected, the pushback and rejection 666 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,879 Speaker 1: is immediate and a parent, I generally want to say 667 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,359 Speaker 1: screw you and move on with the students who want 668 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 1: to learn. But there are teaching evaluations. Teaching evaluations are 669 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 1: used as the only record of my teaching and promotions 670 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:35,200 Speaker 1: and merit based raises, and students use these instruments to 671 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:39,320 Speaker 1: air their grievances, legitimate or otherwise. It gives the bros 672 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,280 Speaker 1: power over me than not cool girl. Likewise, in seeking 673 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,960 Speaker 1: help with challenges presented on teaching evaluations in the pursuit 674 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 1: of tenure, I've been presented with alternative approaches to teaching 675 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 1: and strategies from make learning, learning objectives more clear. Not 676 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,799 Speaker 1: one person has addressed how to assume a position of 677 00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 1: respect in my classroom when my students expectation of my 678 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: persona is very unrealistic. Even when I straight up asked, 679 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:06,440 Speaker 1: how do I get their respect? When I want to 680 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,720 Speaker 1: enforce my classroom rules code of conduct and my students 681 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,360 Speaker 1: want me to be accommodating, I sold, this is not 682 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 1: the problem. To just be more clear about your expectations. 683 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 1: I guess this is just one more way women in 684 00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:22,400 Speaker 1: academia are subversely told they do not belong. You probably 685 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 1: could do a whole podcast on teaching evaluations. The language 686 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,280 Speaker 1: used in some of my evaluations would make your skin crawl. 687 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,960 Speaker 1: And I know I am not alone. Oh my god. Okay, 688 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 1: so some of y'all know I was. I'm formerly used 689 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:38,400 Speaker 1: to teach college before I got into the podcast game. Oh, 690 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,840 Speaker 1: this letter gave me like stress flashbacks. Yes to everything 691 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,919 Speaker 1: you said. I've seen it, have experienced it. It's both 692 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,040 Speaker 1: I hate it. It makes me want to throw up 693 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 1: teaching evaluations like if you, if you, I think I 694 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 1: probably still have some of them. And yes, and She's 695 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:57,239 Speaker 1: be an entire episode about it, because you know they're 696 00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 1: just so awful and so sexist, and really it's one 697 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,840 Speaker 1: of those thing where you cannot win. I used to 698 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 1: try to be cool professor in the very beginning, and 699 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,279 Speaker 1: that never works. Students will walk all over you. And 700 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,279 Speaker 1: then if you're not little miss cool, little mis accommodating, 701 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,279 Speaker 1: they do they take it out on your evaluations. And 702 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 1: that's the only thing. At least at my college. We 703 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,799 Speaker 1: have also had observation days, but that was really it. 704 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:20,799 Speaker 1: You didn't have a lot of things to go on 705 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,320 Speaker 1: if you wanted to build your record as a professor. 706 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 1: And I'll never forget. Like by by my third year teaching, 707 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:32,920 Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I'm a hardass and that's just 708 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:34,799 Speaker 1: a situation and people can be upset with it. And 709 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,439 Speaker 1: you know, I realized that you can always get more 710 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,279 Speaker 1: lenient as the semester goes on, but you can't get 711 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,319 Speaker 1: more strict. You got you at least for me, like 712 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 1: I had to start stripped. And but you really, you're 713 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 1: so right. You cannot win. It is such a catch 714 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:53,319 Speaker 1: twenty two as a young woman in academia, you just 715 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,319 Speaker 1: it's just trip wires. It's so hard. Yeah, I'm so 716 00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,520 Speaker 1: glad she sent this because um, I hadn't considered before 717 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,040 Speaker 1: the teaching evaluation thing because my dad was a professor 718 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:10,920 Speaker 1: um and just how to me after reading this, it 719 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:12,960 Speaker 1: seems obvious that it would there would be a different 720 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:17,040 Speaker 1: set of standards on women, female teachers as opposed to 721 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,759 Speaker 1: male teachers. You would not believe it. This is this 722 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:22,560 Speaker 1: warn't an EPO. I mean, I'm getting like hot under 723 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,920 Speaker 1: the collar, just thinking. She sent us a picture of 724 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,360 Speaker 1: one of her evaluations and like one of the comments 725 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,799 Speaker 1: was that she was a babe. This is on her 726 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 1: teacher evaluation. Well that's like professor they have that They 727 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:36,919 Speaker 1: used to have that. I don't know if they still 728 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:38,480 Speaker 1: do because I'm no longer in the classroom, but they 729 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,359 Speaker 1: used to have that chili functions. You could rate your 730 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,760 Speaker 1: class and then throw it chili powder or chili pepper 731 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,080 Speaker 1: in there if they were hot. Yeah, do you remember 732 00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,279 Speaker 1: that awful that annoyed me? Thank you for your letter. 733 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,759 Speaker 1: Now I'm all your tape. It's almost like, yeah, I 734 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:59,400 Speaker 1: have like rage flashbacks. Oh anyway, Ashley writes, growing up, 735 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,439 Speaker 1: I never felt a real connection to my last name, 736 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:03,759 Speaker 1: mostly because we were always closer to my mom's out 737 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,400 Speaker 1: of the family. Like Bridget said, my accomplishments were on 738 00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,960 Speaker 1: behalf of my mom's side, not my dad's name. Then 739 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,799 Speaker 1: my parents got divorced because of wrong doings of my dad. 740 00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:14,319 Speaker 1: After that, I couldn't wait to get married and take 741 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,200 Speaker 1: my husband's name so I could disassociate my dad's name 742 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:21,160 Speaker 1: and family. My family understands. And as a note, when 743 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,560 Speaker 1: my parents got divorced, my mom kept my dad's name 744 00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,600 Speaker 1: because she used his name for her entire professional career. 745 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:28,760 Speaker 1: So her name is her brand. It will be incredibly 746 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,480 Speaker 1: confusing if she changed it fifteen years into the business. 747 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,120 Speaker 1: I also want to say that my favorite celebrity name 748 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,719 Speaker 1: changed was when Alexa Vega from a Spy Kids and 749 00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,040 Speaker 1: Carlos Penna from Big Time Rush got married. They mashed 750 00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,800 Speaker 1: their names together and both changed their last name to 751 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:48,040 Speaker 1: pen Vega. That is amazing And I didn't know that. 752 00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:51,640 Speaker 1: That's really cool. I didn't know that either. H Yeah, 753 00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:56,600 Speaker 1: that that has been really interesting. UM. One of the 754 00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:58,960 Speaker 1: things that we didn't really get to talk about when 755 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,120 Speaker 1: we did the name why why to change your name 756 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,160 Speaker 1: or why do we change your name and why not? UM? 757 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:06,920 Speaker 1: Is kind of how a lot for a lot of 758 00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,480 Speaker 1: us are our last names are our father's names and 759 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,839 Speaker 1: what happens when that relationship is complicated, and also like 760 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:18,400 Speaker 1: when women are getting divorced. But since they since generations 761 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,799 Speaker 1: before ours got married earlier, they built their career on 762 00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,640 Speaker 1: their married name. So for the same reasons that kind 763 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:31,040 Speaker 1: of in our generations we're keeping women are keeping their 764 00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,040 Speaker 1: last name because they don't. It's their brand and they 765 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,759 Speaker 1: built their career on it. It's it just happened with 766 00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 1: earlier generations with the married name. So that that's been very, 767 00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,520 Speaker 1: very interesting to hear from a lot. A lot of 768 00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,320 Speaker 1: listeners wrote in about that about how their mom kept 769 00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:52,040 Speaker 1: their married name even after divorce. Yeah. Again, it's just 770 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:57,360 Speaker 1: there are so many stories and layers and situations. I 771 00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,319 Speaker 1: had no idea this issue was so complex. But I'm 772 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,200 Speaker 1: so glad that we're writing in and I'm glad that 773 00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:04,120 Speaker 1: we raised it. Yeah, is that some braggy. I didn't 774 00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:10,360 Speaker 1: mean that to some braggy. Go us asking the hard 775 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:15,279 Speaker 1: hitting questions. So thanks to both of them for writing in. 776 00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,040 Speaker 1: If you have anything that you would like to write 777 00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,560 Speaker 1: into us about, you can our emails mom Stuff at 778 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,040 Speaker 1: how stuff parks dot com, and you can find us 779 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,040 Speaker 1: on social media. We're on Instagram, Stuff mom ever told you, 780 00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,360 Speaker 1: and on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast, and it's always 781 00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:32,520 Speaker 1: thanks to our producer, Dalen Fagan.