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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and one of the

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Speaker 1: stuff I've never told you prodiction of iHeartRadio, and welcome

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Speaker 1: to another edition of half Hour. On a very dreary Thursday.

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Speaker 1: We are recording this very spirit.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna get another snow apocalypse possibly or isogeddon. I

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Speaker 2: think it could be ice.

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Speaker 1: I think it's going to be ice, which is not fun.

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Speaker 1: That is not what we like, that's not what we want.

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Speaker 2: This is not what we talked about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, as always with these halfy hours, if you

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Speaker 1: choose to drink, please do so responsibly. Samantha, are you

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Speaker 1: doing anything responsibly? Over there?

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Speaker 2: Always things responsibly? I am a responsible, boring adult that

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Speaker 2: drinks water. End of story. Currently a peppermint because my

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Speaker 2: tummy is not happy with me. I'm not sure why,

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Speaker 2: but it's okay. Peppermints for the wind, not for me. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: not for you unless you're any and allergic.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So today's episode is going to be a chin

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Speaker 1: wine or kind of a wallow in wine actually, but

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Speaker 1: it's it's all gonna be fine. I've psycked myself up

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Speaker 1: for it. It's not going to be bad. So it

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Speaker 1: is just my usual red wine I was going to

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Speaker 1: make like a hot tidy situation because it is cold.

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Speaker 1: I was like, no, this feels right for this topic.

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Speaker 1: So before we start this, I want to say everything

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Speaker 1: in this is one hundred percent my opinion. Uh, and

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Speaker 1: it is my experience and it is how I deal

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Speaker 1: with things. I don't think I'm alone by any means,

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Speaker 1: but I certainly don't speak for everyone. I know. Oh,

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Speaker 1: this is a people have a lot of emotions and

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Speaker 1: thoughts about all of this. So just gonna put that

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Speaker 1: out there at the top, all right. So it finally

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Speaker 1: happened to me, Samantha, I was successfully queer baited. It happened.

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Speaker 1: And don't get me wrong, I have watched shows that

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Speaker 1: I would classify as queer baits, but either I'm too

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Speaker 1: cynical or like, that'll never happen. They'll never give me

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Speaker 1: what I want, which is, you know, a queer relationship.

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Speaker 1: But so I've never actually believed it could happen. Who anyway,

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Speaker 1: if you haven't listened to our episode on queer baiting,

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Speaker 1: you can. It's kind of old. We should probably that

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Speaker 1: was back in our early days, Samantha, when we did

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Speaker 1: that one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't feel like that long ago, because I

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Speaker 2: can remember it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was ago. It probably was. So you

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Speaker 1: can go back and listen to that if you want,

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Speaker 1: if you want to know more. But basically, what I

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Speaker 1: will say is some people disagree on what qualifies as

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Speaker 1: queer bait. I would say there are some examples that

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Speaker 1: are just straight up queer bait, and then there are

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Speaker 1: some that are kind of in a more gray area.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, some people do disagree. If you want to

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Speaker 1: go and hear more about that, check out that episode.

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Speaker 1: I actually I actually wrote out a whole thing. I

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Speaker 1: never do this for a happy hour. Oh my god. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So I actually don't really want to talk about what

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Speaker 1: happened to me. I want to talk about the aftermath

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Speaker 1: of it because I am still processing. I am going

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Speaker 1: through Like I said in our New Year's episode, I

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Speaker 1: am processing a lot of queer stuff. I've been thinking

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Speaker 1: about queer issues for a while and I didn't realize it,

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Speaker 1: and I have been doing some of those episodes over

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Speaker 1: the past month. So I think we'll keep talking about it,

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Speaker 1: but I do, yeah, I want to talk about kind

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Speaker 1: of the what the fallout and the realizations I had

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Speaker 1: after it, and I do want to be clear about this.

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Speaker 1: I might sound a little jokey because that is how

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Speaker 1: I handle things, but it can sucked. Man. Like I

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Speaker 1: feel like I was hanging out with some friends that

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Speaker 1: I trusted. I was having a grand old time. We

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Speaker 1: were like in a car, we were laughing, and then

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Speaker 1: they sucker punstry in the face, threw me out the

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Speaker 1: car and left me ted dead on the highway like

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Speaker 1: I was. I know. It was like I was so

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Speaker 1: full of hope and then I was so shocked and

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Speaker 1: I was so hurt. I cried for like two days.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, no, I was miserable. So when I say

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Speaker 1: like I'm making this sound jokey, I was miserable. And

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Speaker 1: then I made it another friends problem and I made

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Speaker 1: her sit through a two plus hour presentation that had

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Speaker 1: videos and images to prove I was not delusional.

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Speaker 2: When I tell this a YouTube thing that you show

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Speaker 2: or did you create this thing?

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Speaker 1: I created? Okay, I brought together clips from YouTube, so

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Speaker 1: in that sense I created it. Yes, Yeah, I had

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Speaker 1: to back up my points.

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Speaker 2: Well, I love that this is not an essay, but

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Speaker 2: it was a visual representation this time.

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Speaker 1: See when I tell you I write these essays, I

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Speaker 1: need you to believe.

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Speaker 2: It is true, but you've come to the new reform.

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Speaker 1: I asked her. I was like, would you prefer powerpois or.

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Speaker 2: Do you want me to write this out? Do you

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Speaker 2: want me to make this a musical or would you

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Speaker 2: like it in video form?

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Speaker 1: I'm so embarrassed. And she was like, I have my

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Speaker 1: one condition. I'm going to take a candid picture of

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Speaker 1: you doing it. And it's very funny because there's a

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Speaker 1: I didn't place it there specifically or purposefully, but there's

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Speaker 1: a like affirmation box I have that says calm right

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Speaker 1: in front of me, and I'm clearly not calm.

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Speaker 2: I like, she took a photo evidence. I'm sure I'll

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Speaker 2: reach out to her and find it.

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Speaker 1: Don't keep don't, don't, don't, don't don't. I'm embarrassed anyway,

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Speaker 1: but it was because I was yeah, I was like, so,

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Speaker 1: it was just so I was distraught and I was

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Speaker 1: confused and I needed someone to be like, no, I'm

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Speaker 1: sorry you're coming from And after I did that, I

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Speaker 1: cried some more because I brought up new I like

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Speaker 1: dredged it all back up. So if this has happened

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Speaker 1: to you, I am really sorry. I'm really, really really sorry,

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Speaker 1: So do not take any of this as dismissal. This

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Speaker 1: is just me coping right now.

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Speaker 2: Any way to cope.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I can't really tell you, I suppose how

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Speaker 1: you have to handle it in your life, but I

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Speaker 1: promise you I was legitimately hurt. I did kind of

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Speaker 1: feel traumatized. And there are a lot of reasons for this, because,

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Speaker 1: first of all, I want to talk about the delusional part,

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Speaker 1: where it immediately becomes like, oh, I was delusional this

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Speaker 1: whole time, and that's what people will say online. One

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Speaker 1: of the things that really hurts about being queer abated,

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Speaker 1: which if you don't know, I feel like it's pretty obvious,

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Speaker 1: but it's like you're given hints or promises of a

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Speaker 1: queer romantic relationship through the source material and usually those

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Speaker 1: involved making it, and then it not coming to fruition.

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Speaker 1: Usually at the very end, it's like you're so happy

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Speaker 1: and you're looking for these things and you're getting all

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Speaker 1: these signals that it might happen, and then they're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: actually not, and then they make fun of you for it.

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Speaker 1: How could you have ever believed that, like obviously that

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Speaker 1: would never ever happen. And that sucks because as a

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Speaker 1: queer person, not only do you have to like really

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Speaker 1: look for good representation and then you find crumbs of

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Speaker 1: it where you can. But at least some of us

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Speaker 1: feel this and real life like we feel delusional looking

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Speaker 1: for any sign that someone is like us, that someone

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Speaker 1: might like us. And you know, like straight people have

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Speaker 1: signals too, and there's that level of like reading into

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Speaker 1: signals for any relationship, but when you're queer, it can

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Speaker 1: feel much more rare and much more unsafe to misinterpret

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Speaker 1: those things. So when we are talking about like compets

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Speaker 1: our compulsory heterosexuality, which we have recently are internalized homophobia.

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Speaker 1: I hadn't realized until recently how much I do micromanage

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Speaker 1: things so someone can misinterpret them because I'm gay and

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Speaker 1: they might misinterpret something and I don't want that, and

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Speaker 1: that usually looks like withdraw. I think that looks like

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Speaker 1: withdraw for a lot of queer people, but especially for me,

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Speaker 1: it looks like, oh, I can't contact them first. I

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Speaker 1: can never do this first. And I'm not even talking

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Speaker 1: about guys, I'm talking about anybody like. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to be the one that does that because they might

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Speaker 1: misread it, and then the other person of course, is thinking, well,

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Speaker 1: they don't want to talk to me. She never reaches

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Speaker 1: out first. It's just a mess. So yeah, those are

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Speaker 1: the things that you're It's very like projecting, it's very

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Speaker 1: reading into yourself. But you're thinking like, what if they

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Speaker 1: think I'm flirting and they're disgusted by it? What if

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Speaker 1: they realize what I am? And then you shut down

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Speaker 1: an you wait for them to come to you. And again,

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Speaker 1: this is not unique to queer people, but it is

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Speaker 1: something that for a lot of us ties back to

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Speaker 1: fear and shame. So when you're consuming media and you're

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Speaker 1: trying to read into these signals that sometimes feel pretty clear,

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Speaker 1: and then they tell you like you are illusional, it's

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Speaker 1: very destabilizing, and people make you feel embarrassed and perverted

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Speaker 1: about it, which I'm going to get into a more second,

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Speaker 1: but anyway, I don't feel like they do this with

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Speaker 1: straight couples, especially like the you must be perverted part.

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Speaker 1: I'm still hung up on that, and I am embarrassed

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Speaker 1: and I feel stupid. And this is why I brought

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Speaker 1: my friend and made her watch this Present Day because

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Speaker 1: I was like, I needed somebody to tell me I

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Speaker 1: hadn't lost my mind because people online were like, oh,

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Speaker 1: y'all are desperate, and I was like, yeah, kinda for

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Speaker 1: good representation kind of yes, And it's all sad, Like

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Speaker 1: you start you are not only questioning everything you're doing

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Speaker 1: as a real life queer person, you start questioning everything

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Speaker 1: someone else is doing, and like how you're reading into

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Speaker 1: what they are doing, and it's just very confusing. And

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Speaker 1: I think it probably can be fun when you know

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Speaker 1: someone else's sextuality or you feel really confident in yours,

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Speaker 1: but for a lot of us, it's not so fun.

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Speaker 1: So having something like this is just painful. And sometimes

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Speaker 1: you do you resign yourself to a life of never

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Speaker 1: finding what you want, and then you think you're finally

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Speaker 1: gonna see some queer joy and then you don't get

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Speaker 1: it and you're like, well, see, there it is. And

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Speaker 1: also this is a topic for another another day. But

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Speaker 1: a lot of the queer baiting stuff, I've actually missed

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Speaker 1: a lot of the big ones. Some of you have

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Speaker 1: written in about some of the queer baiting shipping wars

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Speaker 1: you've been involved with, and I've luckily sailed by. But

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Speaker 1: a lot of thing that does come up with many

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Speaker 1: of them is queer trauma versus queer joy, So a

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Speaker 1: lot of times it will be like a very sad

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Speaker 1: queer story and then maybe like a hint of joy

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Speaker 1: that you don't really see anywhere. So another thing this

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Speaker 1: is also going to have to be I'm still wrestling

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Speaker 1: with this. I've been wrestling with this for a while.

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Speaker 1: But there's this idea that I've seen around queer baiting

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Speaker 1: a lot where people are like almost implying that you're

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Speaker 1: a Monster's too strong a word, but like just that

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Speaker 1: why do you have to take everything like it means

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Speaker 1: something it doesn't have to mean anything. Are like why

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Speaker 1: can't they just be friends or whatever? Which I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: come back to in a second. But one thing that

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Speaker 1: has stuck out to me. I this is years ago,

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Speaker 1: this happened, and I'm still dealing with it, But there

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Speaker 1: was this big there's a big narrative of around queer

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Speaker 1: baiting that's usually like character X is making character why uncomfortable,

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Speaker 1: which I would disagree with given the only like the

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Speaker 1: constant monitoring thing that usually do as a queer person,

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Speaker 1: But okay, sure, but it did remind me of when

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Speaker 1: longtime friend of mine, many many many years ago told

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Speaker 1: me that he wanted to date, and I was devastated

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Speaker 1: because I thought it meant that I had been leading

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Speaker 1: him on when I thought I was just being friendly

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Speaker 1: and how I scared of my own body, and I

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Speaker 1: very dramatically wrote about how I was a monster in

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Speaker 1: my journal. I felt awful, But it wasn't anything that

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Speaker 1: he did. It wasn't anything I did, to be honest,

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Speaker 1: but I was shifting the blame onto me. And we've

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Speaker 1: talked about this before. A lot of women do. This

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Speaker 1: is not just a queer thing. But I guess what

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to say when it comes to this conversation

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Speaker 1: is that, yeah, it can be scary when a friend

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Speaker 1: feels differently than you do. But I wasn't uncomfortable by

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Speaker 1: what he did. Afterwards, after he told me, I started

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Speaker 1: to like be like, oh, I wasn't seeing it that way.

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Speaker 1: I definitely didn't think he'd done anything like perverted or wrong.

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Speaker 1: And I did end updating him four years because that's

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Speaker 1: what I thought I was supposed to want and supposed

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Speaker 1: to do. And that comes back to the compulsory heterosexuality conversation.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I just don't think I see that

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Speaker 1: as much with straight couples and media where they're immediately like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's making him feel uncomfortable or she's making her feel uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: It's like, oh, I don't think so it's not anything major.

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Speaker 1: And yes, like I said, another of the big ones is, no,

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Speaker 1: they can't just be best friends. We're all for friends.

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Speaker 1: You know, Samantha and I love best friends. Those is

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Speaker 1: probably some of the best relationships you can see. Forget

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Speaker 1: all this romance. But so, I mean sometimes, especially if

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Speaker 1: they're giving you, like as an audience, like clear insight

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Speaker 1: into a character's thoughts, intentional choices and music and color

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Speaker 1: and set design and everything that's meant to communicate things.

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Speaker 1: So oh, sure, I love best friends, but it would

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Speaker 1: be nice if it wasn't always directed at like a

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Speaker 1: potential queer couple that was probably queer bait that, oh,

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Speaker 1: it can't just be friends. I'm like, sure, but that's

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Speaker 1: not what they were telling us. With all this information,

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Speaker 1: and y'all know, like, I feel like I'm just going

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Speaker 1: on a while. This is why I had to write

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Speaker 1: this one out. I'm getting derailed. But y'all know, I

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Speaker 1: process things easier through fictional works and characters. So to

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Speaker 1: experience this. It was not good. It was not good

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Speaker 1: for me, and especially like there was also just dismissing

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Speaker 1: it as a joke. I feel like I said that,

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Speaker 1: but like kind of the not only are you delusional?

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Speaker 1: That's very funny that you thought that. I've learned a lot.

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Speaker 1: That's what I'll say. I've learned a lot through this journey.

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Speaker 1: I've learned so much about color theory and music theory.

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Speaker 1: And it's very funny to see other people talking about

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Speaker 1: this and just be like, oh, okay, so I'm not

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Speaker 1: the only one. I mean, presentation was pretty good. And

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Speaker 1: my friend, I have to say when she when it

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Speaker 1: was over, she was like, you convinced me and she

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Speaker 1: said it like she meant it. So before somebod y'all

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Speaker 1: you did this.

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Speaker 2: Did she have that same feeling of puibating doing that point.

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Speaker 1: I don't think she'd formed enough. Okay, I like opinion

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Speaker 1: about it. She was a what a sport? What a sport?

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Speaker 1: But it's funny because I, you know, I'm an ace

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Speaker 1: person and so kind of cracks me up how much

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Speaker 1: I've learned through this. But it it's also funny because

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Speaker 1: I have realized this over the years. I could care

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Speaker 1: less about straight couples. Usually I do not care. But

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Speaker 1: if it's a queer couple, even if that's not like

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Speaker 1: what I like identify with, I don't really want to

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Speaker 1: be with somebody. I still want that that I'm interested

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Speaker 1: in and that I want to see because I always

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Speaker 1: get kind of hung up on that, and I think

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Speaker 1: it's just because you don't see it very often. And

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Speaker 1: as you know, I love fan fiction. I love it.

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Speaker 1: I love it, I love it, I write it. But

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Speaker 1: sometimes you do want to like see it or read it,

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Speaker 1: and you want other people to see it or read

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Speaker 1: it too, like to see that it's possible. It's not delusional.

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Speaker 1: This does exist, and this is like the pros and

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Speaker 1: cons of loving something to the can hurt you so bad.

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Speaker 1: And I love these things so much and so it

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Speaker 1: got me.

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Speaker 2: So, how do you feel about the show now? You

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Speaker 2: still love the show? I don't know the show talking about.

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Speaker 1: So well, no, no, no, I don't want to say that.

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Speaker 1: I'm still like processing the whole thing, and I have

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Speaker 1: like coping mechanisms and basically headcannon, headcannon. But that's yeah,

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Speaker 1: coping mechanism. But yeah, that's the other thing is like

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Speaker 1: clearly there's an audience for clear romance, and not even

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Speaker 1: just for queer people. You can see some examples going

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Speaker 1: on right now, despite what some studios seem to believe,

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Speaker 1: because a lot of times they'll put like one like

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Speaker 1: Star Wars. It is the first one that's coming to mind,

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Speaker 1: but you know, like two seconds of a gay couple kissing.

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Speaker 1: They're like sweet it, and you're like no, but you

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Speaker 1: all have also had a bunch of other couples. You

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Speaker 1: could have like are you put it in your comics?

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Speaker 1: Which I love, but they're just not mainstream as much

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Speaker 1: as like movies or the shows Learner or something like that.

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Speaker 1: This is also another reminder as what why we need

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Speaker 1: fandom therapists. Yep, I could have saved my friend a lot.

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Speaker 2: Would you have presented this to your therapists.

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Speaker 1: Well, the fandom therapist would know about it already, so

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Speaker 1: you don't have to get into the I could.

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Speaker 2: Have just like, that's gonna be hard because as any therapist,

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Speaker 2: sometimes they hit new traumas that you have to kind

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Speaker 2: of work with them through. So I don't think that's

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Speaker 2: entirely fair, But especially if it's like newer releases of

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Speaker 2: stuff they weren't ready for. But the queer baiting part

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Speaker 2: I bet they would be ready for. I think they

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Speaker 2: would be ready for it, but not specifically to this show.

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Speaker 1: Maybe. Yeah, well that's why fictional therapist here, they would

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Speaker 1: have fictional thing. I like that. I like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they would have to have specialties. That's why, Like when

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about what mine would be, I could

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Speaker 1: talk very specifically about like grief and loss and last

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Speaker 1: of us, I could talk about, oh, how Canon can

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Speaker 1: really hurt you with Star Wars destruction of something you

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Speaker 1: loved and have it used for something else, Like I

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Speaker 1: would have specialties.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, okay.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, no, No, it's been like I've just got

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Speaker 1: a lot going through my head and there are at

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Speaker 1: least two things in here I want to come back

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Speaker 1: and talk about more. So I have been learning a lot.

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Speaker 1: You know, you finally get cleervated in your thirties, you

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Speaker 1: start thinking about it.

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Speaker 2: You got it, You got to walk it through, you.

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Speaker 1: Do you do, And I'm doing my best, but I don't. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like I said, I know, I'm like laughing through the

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Speaker 1: but we've heard from people how much it hurt you,

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Speaker 1: and so yeah, just if it has happened to you.

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Speaker 1: I'm very sorry, and you can write in about whatever.

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Speaker 1: We had somebody write in a very intense email that

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Speaker 1: I think they were also using humor to cope once.

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Speaker 1: But she was like, I survived this war, this war,

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Speaker 1: this queer baiting war. So you're a soldier.

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Speaker 2: He's ready.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So, listeners, let us know any thoughts about this

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Speaker 1: or if you have any unfortunate experience with it, And

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Speaker 1: thank you for letting me ramble like I was racing through.

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Speaker 2: You really were, but it was. I'm glad you had

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Speaker 2: the moment to be able to let it out. I'm

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Speaker 2: also curious about this presentation. We'll talk about it later.

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Speaker 1: Okay, maybe I'll publish it, maybe one day when I've

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Speaker 1: moved on and doesn't hurt anymore, or it's like behind me,

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Speaker 1: I'll publish it, okay. But in the meantime, listeners, if

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Speaker 1: you would like to contact us, you can. Our email

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Speaker 1: is hello at Stuffwenever Told You dot com. You can

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Speaker 1: also find us on Blue Skype, Mom Stuff podcast, or

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Speaker 1: on Instagram and TikTok at stuff one Never Told You.

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Speaker 1: We're also on YouTube. We have a book, and we

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Speaker 1: have some new merchandise at comp Bureau. Thanks as always

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Speaker 1: to our super du Christina or executive producer My and

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Speaker 1: your contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks to you for

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Speaker 1: listening stuff Never told you. Specture of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can check

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Speaker 1: out the heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or where you

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Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows,