Speaker 1: Charges. That's created by Portas and Control Media. It's produced
Speaker 1: by DV Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio. This
Speaker 1: time a former Sons player who you might remember as
Speaker 1: t Rex. More video in just a moment, but this
Speaker 1: is Rex Chapman's mug sewn and we are learning a
Speaker 1: lot more about the charge its charges. Would it surprise
Speaker 1: the listeners how often a player or organization member crosses
Speaker 1: the line. Every once in a while there might be
Speaker 1: some comments, someone asking like what sexual positions like? Or
Speaker 1: what are you wearing under your or your pants. I
Speaker 1: don't regret not coming forward because there's no chance I
Speaker 1: would have been believed, and there's no chance that could
Speaker 1: have continued in my career. Zero zero Welcome to Charges.
Speaker 1: I'm your host Rex Chapman. Today on the show, we
Speaker 1: have a very differ for the type of guests and
Speaker 1: a story to tell. I'm a man who has three
Speaker 1: daughters and a younger sister, so this episode really strikes
Speaker 1: a deep chord for me to help make this world
Speaker 1: of sports a better place today than when I was playing.
Speaker 1: I'm proud to have on former sports journalist Kat O'Brien,
Speaker 1: who for years covered Major League Baseball, but During that time,
Speaker 1: she held onto a secret. Cat worked at the Fort
Speaker 1: Worth Star Telegram, Newsday, and ESPN before ultimately leaving sports journalism.
Speaker 1: She was a rising star who was taken advantage of
Speaker 1: in a despicable way by a coward of a man.
Speaker 1: What's worse because that it was committed by one of
Speaker 1: her peers, a professional athlete. A few weeks ago, she
Speaker 1: wrote a piece for The New York Times and told
Speaker 1: her story, one that she's held onto for eighteen years.
Speaker 1: If you haven't read it, I encourage you to do
Speaker 1: so before we get started. I want to read this.
Speaker 1: One part of her piece to you, Cat writes, I
Speaker 1: don't want this assault to be what people think of
Speaker 1: when they think of me. I don't want pity. Being
Speaker 1: a survivor of rape is only a tiny part of
Speaker 1: my story. There are hundreds of things more interesting about me,
Speaker 1: such as my passion for Spain. I've run six marathons
Speaker 1: and qualified for the Boston since having a stroke. That
Speaker 1: I've worked for several companies, the most recognized and respected
Speaker 1: companies in the world, and that I volunteer with International
Speaker 1: Rescue Committee. I've traveled to more than thirty countries on
Speaker 1: my own moved abroad, learned to scuba dive in St. Lucia,
Speaker 1: kite surf in Spain and Brazil, and have been one
Speaker 1: of the few women in many spaces. I haven't lost
Speaker 1: my optimism. Cat. What an honor it is to have
Speaker 1: you on the show today. Thank you for being here.
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me rox Um. I appreciate you're giving
Speaker 1: me the opportunity to talk with you and reach your audience.
Speaker 1: We'll get into everything about you, but I want to
Speaker 1: start here. Uh, tell me about your life as a kid.
Speaker 1: Where are you from? How were you drawn into the
Speaker 1: world of sports. Sure, I'm from Davenport, Iowa, so quad cities,
Speaker 1: kind of the middle of America, right on the Mississippi River.
Speaker 1: I was the tomboy. Uh. You know, played a lot
Speaker 1: of sports, did a lot of other things too, But
Speaker 1: I didn't have any expectation to go into sports as
Speaker 1: a career. But I really liked telling stories. I really
Speaker 1: like journalism. I went to Notre Dame for college, which
Speaker 1: certainly has a pretty strong sports history, and uh, I
Speaker 1: worked for the student newspaper, which is a daily paper
Speaker 1: Monday through Friday, and found covering sports to be get
Speaker 1: a lot more attention and interest from people than covering
Speaker 1: what professor was giving a lecture or whether a restaurant
Speaker 1: on campus might stay open half an hour later. UM.
Speaker 1: And so I kind of started doing more sports and
Speaker 1: then I remember really clearly. Actually actually it's sad timing,
Speaker 1: but uh, this professional track athlete Paul McMullen raced on
Speaker 1: a in a meet on campus, and I did a
Speaker 1: feature on him, and he he sent me a handwritten
Speaker 1: note a couple several weeks later, after USA Today had
Speaker 1: also done a piece, and UM, he said that my
Speaker 1: piece was better. And I was like this year old,
Speaker 1: and I was like, wow, this is really cool, this
Speaker 1: you know athlete. UM. And sadly he actually just died
Speaker 1: this year in an accident. UM. But he helped kind
Speaker 1: of push me, like I'm gonna do more sports and
Speaker 1: then you know the UM. Yeah, so those small things
Speaker 1: that someone does can sometimes have unexpected consequences and intentions,
Speaker 1: and and so you know, I focused more in sports
Speaker 1: and the newspaper and then ended up getting an internship. UH.
Speaker 1: The summer I graduated through the Association of Women in
Speaker 1: Sports Media, and UH, I joined the Fort Worth Star
Speaker 1: Telegram as an intern, thinking maybe I could get on
Speaker 1: it like a small paper somewhere. The Star Telegram was
Speaker 1: one of the top sports sections in the country, and
Speaker 1: they ended up hiring me full time. And so that's
Speaker 1: that's my story and how I got into sports pretty much. Look,
Speaker 1: I gotta say, uh, my entry in the media was
Speaker 1: tough because of my background in personal life. But I
Speaker 1: never had to be an intern. But I got hired
Speaker 1: coming right out of the summer. Um, actually part way
Speaker 1: through the summer, I got an offer and then started
Speaker 1: covering primarily high school sports and then also would help
Speaker 1: out with kind of whatever or else was near the
Speaker 1: high school sports in Texas or a big deal. We
Speaker 1: had at the time different sections depending on which area
Speaker 1: of the region people lived in, so you know, with
Speaker 1: subscribers would get a certain edition, and UM covered a
Speaker 1: lot of high school sports, football, basketball, baseball, try everything there,
Speaker 1: very very very popular next level, and then would help
Speaker 1: out with a lot of other things, especially you know,
Speaker 1: in the summer there aren't high school high school sports,
Speaker 1: so UM baseball. I had, you know, studied Spanish, so
Speaker 1: baseball was really a particularly a natural fit because I
Speaker 1: brought something that um, you know, most people wouldn't have
Speaker 1: in terms of being able to speak Spanish with players.
Speaker 1: What was your favorite part about covering baseball. I mean,
Speaker 1: you you can get to know people really well because
Speaker 1: they play every day. So I think you know, that
Speaker 1: gives reporters a better chance to get to know players. UM.
Speaker 1: I think that can be tougher in a big media
Speaker 1: market like New York, for instance, because there's so many reporters.
Speaker 1: Players maybe a little more guarded with good reason. Um,
Speaker 1: but you know, when you're around people every day like
Speaker 1: in Texas and there are only a handful their their
Speaker 1: day in and day out. In terms of reporters, you can,
Speaker 1: you know, potentially get a chance to get to know people.
Speaker 1: While I think I always tried to be fair with uh,
Speaker 1: not just players, with everyone around sport, and um, I
Speaker 1: think that people recognize that. Most people recognize that, and UM, yeah,
Speaker 1: so I think just the day and day out aspect
Speaker 1: of it. While that can be a challenge, UM, it
Speaker 1: also can and give you a better opportunity to know people.
Speaker 1: As compared to football like NFL, where they're playing once
Speaker 1: a week, a lock around maxis is super limited. Uh,
Speaker 1: interview access is really limited. I think it's harder to
Speaker 1: get to know the players in that space. At what
Speaker 1: point did you have the realization, Oh, because I'm a woman,
Speaker 1: this job is going to be different for me than
Speaker 1: if I was a man. Mm hmm, that's a good question. Um.
Speaker 1: I guess it's just sort of a gradual thing. You know.
Speaker 1: It's like, I don't know that I thought about it
Speaker 1: much in college. Um. You know, college your access is
Speaker 1: more limited on a college campus as opposed to professional athletes.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of comments in the atmosphere that
Speaker 1: you deal with. Um, this is not just players, So
Speaker 1: I'm not singling out players by any stretch. This is
Speaker 1: just the whole atmosphere. So UM, I don't buy any
Speaker 1: stretch things that players were more guilty of sexual harassment
Speaker 1: or anything than other people around the sport or or
Speaker 1: in life really. But um, but it is a very
Speaker 1: male dominated atmosphere. So whether that's from you know, agents,
Speaker 1: to coaches, to players to other reporters, UM, it's just
Speaker 1: a reality that you deal with. I I do remember
Speaker 1: like a few times talking to other women, but there
Speaker 1: weren't a lot of other women covering baseball, So maybe
Speaker 1: talk to another woman who was working in Dallas sport
Speaker 1: wars but not covering baseball. Or or one of the
Speaker 1: few women who was coming baseball if they had any tips.
Speaker 1: Then again, you're like, twenty three, how much do you
Speaker 1: want to bother this person who's been working in the
Speaker 1: game for ten twenty thirty years or in the industry
Speaker 1: for that long. Um. And I remember different people talking
Speaker 1: about different approaches based on their personality, based on the
Speaker 1: experiences they'd have, because uh, you could. I mean, two
Speaker 1: people working in the same sport in the same sector
Speaker 1: don't have the same experiences, so you might not have
Speaker 1: had maybe maybe you covered a team where someone was
Speaker 1: really egregious, or maybe the exact opposite, where a captain
Speaker 1: of the team was like, hey, you don't you don't
Speaker 1: do this, and then that person had a big positive effect. UM.
Speaker 1: So I think, you know, dependent on the atmosphere, of course,
Speaker 1: then it are you traveling, are you on the road? Um?
Speaker 1: And and then personality wise, like there are people who
Speaker 1: have a certain personality where they're going to react more strongly,
Speaker 1: they're going to things are going to roll off them
Speaker 1: more easily. And then age, I mean, if I was
Speaker 1: I was twenty two, twenty three in my twenties the
Speaker 1: whole time I covered baseball, so Uh, you're at the
Speaker 1: same age or in many cases younger. Maybe then a
Speaker 1: lot of the players. Um and if I had been
Speaker 1: in my fifties, I'm sure it would be a different
Speaker 1: one based on what you would encounter. But to based
Speaker 1: on even now, I would probably have a different response.
Speaker 1: I might take a little less language, but that's right,
Speaker 1: say whatever you like. A lot has been made in
Speaker 1: the last few years about locker room talk. The locker
Speaker 1: rooms of today are very different from my era in
Speaker 1: coverage and decency. I'm ashamed to admit that wild teammates
Speaker 1: belittle female reporters with inappropriate conduct. I, as a young man,
Speaker 1: did not step in like I should have, which makes
Speaker 1: me complicit. The workplace is meant to be a safe
Speaker 1: haven for all, but sadly, across sports, we're seeing a
Speaker 1: pattern of vile behavior from the past to the president
Speaker 1: that must be corrected. The president of l s U
Speaker 1: says there was a quote institutional betrayal and how the
Speaker 1: university handled accusations of sexual misconduct. This comes as an
Speaker 1: outside law firm released its report of failures to address
Speaker 1: such issues on campus. Fifteen former female employees of the
Speaker 1: Washington Redskins have accused members of the team's front office
Speaker 1: of sexual and verbal harassment. This and a new report
Speaker 1: from The Washington Post. The accusations spanned from two thousand
Speaker 1: six or two thousand nineteen and include longtime radio voice
Speaker 1: Larry Michael, also director of Pro Personal Alex Santos, and
Speaker 1: his assistant Richard Matt new report on sexual harassment in
Speaker 1: the Dallas Mavericks basketball team, investigators have found a hostile
Speaker 1: culture for women at the team owned by billionaire MARKQ.
Speaker 1: Been Cuban and his Mavericks facing the bite of a
Speaker 1: bombshell report revealing multiple instances of sexual harassment and workplaced
Speaker 1: misconduct over two decades, Carolina Panthers founder and principal owner
Speaker 1: Jerry Richardson announced his plans to sell the team at
Speaker 1: the end of the season, amid reports he gave payouts
Speaker 1: to four former employees to settle claims of misconduct and
Speaker 1: racial slurs. Just five weeks after he was hired, the
Speaker 1: Mets dismissed their general manager, Jared Porter. He was quickly
Speaker 1: fired today when news of a sexting scandal went public,
Speaker 1: and the Mets organization says it knew nothing about the
Speaker 1: allegations until Jared Porter called them last night. They say
Speaker 1: he told them about the disturbing claims being made against
Speaker 1: him by a female reporter from Korea. The Mets say
Speaker 1: he took full responsibility for his actions and expressed remorse.
Speaker 1: I gotta say this, Uh, I was a teenager entering
Speaker 1: the NBA in the late eighties, and it was right
Speaker 1: at that time that, um, you know, ladies were coming
Speaker 1: in the locker room and um, I you know, and
Speaker 1: I've never talked to them about it, but I saw
Speaker 1: Hannah Storm worked in Charlotte, and uh, she was one
Speaker 1: of the first that I knew that came into the
Speaker 1: locker room. Uh. The other was Jackie McMullin. And I witnessed,
Speaker 1: you know, just awful things you know, take place where
Speaker 1: you know, obviously I saw that they saw, you know,
Speaker 1: what was happening, and just the strength that it took
Speaker 1: to continue to work and thrive in that environment. So
Speaker 1: how would you describe your professional relationship with athletes during
Speaker 1: your career and would it surprise the listeners how often
Speaker 1: a player or organization member or crosses the line. Um,
Speaker 1: I mean I would say with the vast majority of people, UM,
Speaker 1: for the most part, I had a good and professional relationship.
Speaker 1: I would say most players, uh by and large, treated
Speaker 1: me very professionally. Um. Even some said things like, oh
Speaker 1: you know I would I would think of you like
Speaker 1: a sister or something. I wouldn't want someone to treat
Speaker 1: my sister x y Z way, and so would um.
Speaker 1: You know, in some cases even be more cordial, where
Speaker 1: they might have snapped at a male athlete like they
Speaker 1: didn't want to because they didn't think they should treat
Speaker 1: a woman that way. So UM, I would say most
Speaker 1: players and most people around the game generally treated me
Speaker 1: well and or or if not well, of the same
Speaker 1: way they would have treated a male athlete or a reporter. Sorry.
Speaker 1: You know, like if if someone and I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: negatively call out anybody, but if if a certain player
Speaker 1: known for sort of snapping at reporters snapped at me,
Speaker 1: I wasn't probably because I was a woman. That was
Speaker 1: just because hey, he was saying me like everyone else.
Speaker 1: So you know, there's one athlete who, um was a
Speaker 1: notorious jerke. I mean I don't if anyone said he
Speaker 1: wasn't a jerk, I would be shocked, Like he's probably
Speaker 1: the person you're thinking of. You're thinking of this person
Speaker 1: but I'm not going to name negatively name any person. Um.
Speaker 1: And he also he one time, like or more than
Speaker 1: one time, I remember, purposely like basically walked around naked,
Speaker 1: so because you know, you would try to not be
Speaker 1: looking if someone's changing. So that one was a very
Speaker 1: obvious one. Um. So was that him being kind of
Speaker 1: a sexist jerk? Yes? Was he just a jerk in
Speaker 1: general to almost everyone? Yes? So um so Yeah. And
Speaker 1: then there were others who by and large would treat
Speaker 1: me well. But every once in a while there might
Speaker 1: be some comments, someone asking like what sexual positions like
Speaker 1: or what are you wearing under your scart or your pants,
Speaker 1: which like obviously not okay, um, but also other reporters
Speaker 1: making jokes about such and such female reporter must be
Speaker 1: sleeping with so and so um And I couldn't even
Speaker 1: think how many people uh said that over time. Uh.
Speaker 1: And given I heard it said about um a lot
Speaker 1: of other women, I can only assume what was said
Speaker 1: about almost all of them at one point or another.
Speaker 1: So it's so sad, it really is. And when I
Speaker 1: talked about I'm glad you said it, you know, kind
Speaker 1: of freed me up. You know, one of my first
Speaker 1: experiences with female in the locker room. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: I had teammate who just kind of waited for the
Speaker 1: the reporter to come in and then took off his
Speaker 1: towel and then started, you know, using the lotion on
Speaker 1: his legs and to you know, didn't start the interview
Speaker 1: until that happened. Now, of course I'm calling that guy out.
Speaker 1: Uh at nineteen and twenty and twenty one and hell,
Speaker 1: maybe even thirty one, I don't know. I didn't and
Speaker 1: that makes me feel bad. We'll be right back after
Speaker 1: a word from our sponsors. The Department of Justice says
Speaker 1: eighteen percent of women in the United States have been
Speaker 1: raped at some point in their lifetime. Eighteen that's almost
Speaker 1: one out of every five women, or the populations of
Speaker 1: Washington State, Oregon, Idaho, Nevada, Montana, Wyoming, and Utah combined.
Speaker 1: And about two thirds of victims know their attacker. So
Speaker 1: why do you only six of cases get reported? Well,
Speaker 1: it's complicated. Sometimes victims don't want to get the offender
Speaker 1: in trouble. Sometimes they believe police can't help. But every
Speaker 1: time a victim is dealing with some sort of trauma,
Speaker 1: most times we think of physical, emotional, or mental trauma.
Speaker 1: But what if I told you sexual assault victims are
Speaker 1: also hit financially. The d o J finds that almost
Speaker 1: fifty of sexual assault survivors lose their jobs who are
Speaker 1: forced to quit. On June, Cat published an op ed
Speaker 1: in The New York Times, and she came forward about
Speaker 1: the rape for the first time. The piece sent shock
Speaker 1: waves throughout the sports media world, but to day, none
Speaker 1: of the league's including Major League Baseball, have acknowledged it
Speaker 1: as a moment of reckoning. I want to ask, and
Speaker 1: just as a starting point, I know you wrote about
Speaker 1: what happened, and you've talked about in other interviews, but
Speaker 1: still are you comfortable with talking about what happened? And
Speaker 1: I want you to know whatever level of comfort you
Speaker 1: have or don't have at any point, just please it's
Speaker 1: okay too, and I'll stop and respect that. Yeah, I'll
Speaker 1: do I'll do my best to us and so we'll
Speaker 1: go as much as I can. I got it, Okay, thanks? Um, okay,
Speaker 1: So if you're willing, can can we talk about the
Speaker 1: day of the incident or days leading up to it
Speaker 1: and that week you know, sort of coming to the head. Yeah, So, um,
Speaker 1: I just uh, one player, Um, not on the team
Speaker 1: that I covered, so I I have at no point,
Speaker 1: although some role sluice on the internet like to think
Speaker 1: they can guess who. I very specifically did not give
Speaker 1: any clues other than saying it was not a player
Speaker 1: on a team I covered. So UM of his name
Speaker 1: player wanted to UH said he wanted to talk confidentially
Speaker 1: for a story I was doing. UM. I thought that
Speaker 1: seemed plausible. Initially suggested meeting like at a bar someplace,
Speaker 1: because it was going to be after the game. UH,
Speaker 1: so that's what would be open UM. And then he said, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't want someone to see and know I was
Speaker 1: talking to you. UM, can can we do it at
Speaker 1: my hotel? And I decided yes. I was very trusting
Speaker 1: and thought, sure he was talking, that seems plausible. He
Speaker 1: doesn't want one to know, UM, and so uh so
Speaker 1: I went to um his hotel room after the game
Speaker 1: after I got done parting, and had you know, my
Speaker 1: notebook and pen and recorded to you know, interview him,
Speaker 1: and sat down to interview him. And it did start
Speaker 1: as that. So there wasn't an indication when I got
Speaker 1: there that there was any other purpose or anything else
Speaker 1: that he was looking for. It it all seemed straightforward.
Speaker 1: He was not wearing like no clothes or anything crazy. Um.
Speaker 1: And then uh, you know, after a few minutes, he
Speaker 1: moved to kiss me, and I was taken aback, and
Speaker 1: It's like, what are you doing? And I'm probably not
Speaker 1: going to like feel comfortable going into love of detail,
Speaker 1: but he just he continued to kissed me and pushed
Speaker 1: me towards the bed and then he did not, um stop,
Speaker 1: and he did not take note for an answer, and
Speaker 1: um and UM, I uh yeah, I UM. I never
Speaker 1: I never told anybody until earlier this year, not a
Speaker 1: single person, and I honestly never really thought about telling anyone.
Speaker 1: I think there was one one or two times I
Speaker 1: thought about telling a female friend, um, basically in light
Speaker 1: of them talking about something much less egregious but but
Speaker 1: not not great that had happened to them. And then
Speaker 1: I felt that, um, you know, if you tell someone,
Speaker 1: someone always tells someone. They tell their their boyfriend, they
Speaker 1: tell their roommate, and so then I was just really
Speaker 1: terrified that it was going to get out. UM. So
Speaker 1: I never told anyone, even though, um, I think it
Speaker 1: was the next day I was back at the ballpark,
Speaker 1: and um, I a teammate of this players. Uh. I
Speaker 1: could hear and see him like gesture and making saying
Speaker 1: something in conjunction with the other player's name. And I
Speaker 1: was just astonished that like, Okay, this player said clearly
Speaker 1: he didn't say I raped her. I can't imagine they
Speaker 1: had to have said like, oh I hooked up with
Speaker 1: this reporter or something that made me look bad. And
Speaker 1: and I remember I was so like humiliated, like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, is everyone going to not well know this
Speaker 1: other version of it and think this about me? Because
Speaker 1: there's already this um kind of this perception among some
Speaker 1: people that that female reporters are not there to um,
Speaker 1: do a job, but they're there to like pick up
Speaker 1: pick up guys or some crazy thing. It's it's something
Speaker 1: that it's a rumor that people say. UM. And and
Speaker 1: I always will remember that that teammate like he did,
Speaker 1: he continued to do that every time I would see
Speaker 1: him and he would make comments or UM, I would
Speaker 1: overhear him, and I really tried to avoid him as
Speaker 1: much as I could. UM. But that to me was
Speaker 1: a really egregious that he continued to do that for
Speaker 1: years that I was, you know, still covering baseball that's
Speaker 1: just it's just heartbreaking. Um, I am so sorry. Do
Speaker 1: you beat yourself up about trusting, about trusting because and
Speaker 1: I have daughters twenty two and twenty six, and you know,
Speaker 1: younger sister. I think about those you know, young babies,
Speaker 1: their babies, and you know, being so trusting of somebody
Speaker 1: who's when you look back, was meaning to do you hard? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean I do, and yet I also, like, I
Speaker 1: don't want to lose that like ability to trust people
Speaker 1: or to believe the best in people. And I mean
Speaker 1: I will say, like I feel like I have fought
Speaker 1: through personal things, through things happening in the world, you see,
Speaker 1: like just terrible things happening in the world. I have
Speaker 1: like really fought to be like I want to be.
Speaker 1: I would much rather be a glass three quarters full
Speaker 1: person and believe the best of someone and be disappointed. Actually,
Speaker 1: I've run a lot with the Nike Run Club and
Speaker 1: there's this coach, coach Chris Bennett. He I can't remember
Speaker 1: the exact wording, but he said something. I was like, Yes,
Speaker 1: that is how I feel I would. I'm gonna totally
Speaker 1: butcher it, but basically, I would rather think the best
Speaker 1: of people and have them disappoint me than think the
Speaker 1: worst of people and just be disappointed in life. So
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stick with that. But yet sometimes you do
Speaker 1: have to be a little more cautious or protective. Um So,
Speaker 1: I yeah, I mean, I guess to get into and
Speaker 1: I talked about this in my piece, but for your audience,
Speaker 1: um so, I never ever ever thought of telling anyone.
Speaker 1: And then uh, this this winter when uh um, Jared
Speaker 1: Porter was fired as Matts GM, and I was reading,
Speaker 1: even though I'm not working in sports anymore, I'm not
Speaker 1: working in baseball, but I read things and specifically if
Speaker 1: they're particularly relevant interesting, and I was reading a lot
Speaker 1: of the coverage by people about him getting fired for
Speaker 1: persistent sexual harassment of a female reporter. And so I'm reading,
Speaker 1: um some just general coverage. But then women in baseball
Speaker 1: and sports writing about, you know, their experiences. And then
Speaker 1: I can remember I was sitting I actually it was
Speaker 1: not this couch because I got a new couch, but
Speaker 1: I was sitting here like reading and uh, brit Julie
Speaker 1: Um from the Athletic had a peace and something that
Speaker 1: started out the same way happened to her didn't then
Speaker 1: the same way. Thank god, but she went to interview
Speaker 1: a player in his tell room. UM. When she arrived, though,
Speaker 1: she had um a very romantic setup and was basically
Speaker 1: like what that like? And she turned around and left. UM.
Speaker 1: But I read it and I just was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, because it's it's not as if I totally
Speaker 1: blamed myself, but I kind of did, like I just
Speaker 1: like put in this box over here, because I don't
Speaker 1: think that I could have continued as a reporter if
Speaker 1: I felt like that was something that was like a
Speaker 1: danger for me. UM. And I also I don't I
Speaker 1: don't regret not coming forward because there's no chance I
Speaker 1: would have been believed and there's no chance I could
Speaker 1: have continued in my career zero zero. So but anyway,
Speaker 1: I read her piece and I was just like, disagree
Speaker 1: with you. I wish I could disagree with you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I wish, I wish, I wish I could disagree with me.
Speaker 1: But UM, you know, I I just I saw she
Speaker 1: did the same thing, and I was just like, oh,
Speaker 1: I wasn't it wasn't just me. I wasn't the only
Speaker 1: like person who would fall for this. Um And And
Speaker 1: I talked to other people, well, lots of women who
Speaker 1: have done interviews in hotel rooms, and some who were
Speaker 1: like it was fine, some who had a bad experience,
Speaker 1: not only in sports, in journalism in general. UM. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean we can get to that. But when my
Speaker 1: piece came out, the volume of people who wrote to
Speaker 1: me or reached out to me to say they've been
Speaker 1: through something similar, it was just devastating, just devastating, not
Speaker 1: only in journalism, I mean just people across the board. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I want to ask this, um, in this type of
Speaker 1: professional situation, did you ever even consider that someone could
Speaker 1: do something like this? And I asked because this was
Speaker 1: a crime, and most people in most jobs, certainly high
Speaker 1: profile public public eye type jobs, don't consider that a
Speaker 1: crime could take place at a job. I mean, I
Speaker 1: know I had never thought about that. I no, I
Speaker 1: mean I guess where I thought of. I remember a
Speaker 1: few times, like either myself or other people I worked
Speaker 1: with telling me to be careful in certain situations, like
Speaker 1: you're leaving a stadium late at night by yourself. Um.
Speaker 1: I traveled, I traveled to the Dominican Republic a few
Speaker 1: times to do reporting. UM, And I actually remember, um
Speaker 1: that it was really worried, like I do not want
Speaker 1: something to happen to you, and um, funny enough, I
Speaker 1: like I remember thinking, gosh, it's much more dangerous leaving
Speaker 1: like uh Detroit or Cleveland Ballpark late at night or
Speaker 1: the Bronx by myself than me being in a cab
Speaker 1: and such in the d R. Of course, any experience
Speaker 1: could depending, but I generally liked UM, so I would say,
Speaker 1: just those sort of late night by yourself, UM situations
Speaker 1: where you think, oh, should I pay extra and take
Speaker 1: a cab rather than take you know, the subway or
Speaker 1: something that's a certain time, but not um that it
Speaker 1: might be like not that someone in the game might Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sure I know the answer to this, And I
Speaker 1: just hate, uh, you know, since you didn't tell literally
Speaker 1: anyone afterwards. Zero chance, zero thought given to calling the police. No,
Speaker 1: no chance. I mean, it's just it's just something that's
Speaker 1: really um, you know, as I when I did decide
Speaker 1: to write this, so after I read Britt's Peace, I
Speaker 1: well then I told someone. Actually, like took a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks, but I was just like having nightmares and
Speaker 1: um couldn't sleep and was just crying a lot, and
Speaker 1: I decided to tell someone and tell like a few
Speaker 1: close friends. And then, um, I decided to write something
Speaker 1: because even though I'm not currently a professional writer, I
Speaker 1: did that for a bunch of years and I'm still
Speaker 1: a writer, and I felt like I could tell my
Speaker 1: story better than someone else could tell my story. Um,
Speaker 1: And so I decided to And initially I was going
Speaker 1: to publish it on medium, but as I was writing,
Speaker 1: and like, I spent a few weeks kind of remembering
Speaker 1: different things and figuring out exactly why I wanted to
Speaker 1: say in the direction, and you know, did some research
Speaker 1: on stats and actually only like one percent of of
Speaker 1: rape allegations end up with the person going to jail.
Speaker 1: One percent really terrible, and out of all I had
Speaker 1: hundreds of people reach out to me. UM, somewhat higher
Speaker 1: than that have some sort of consequence, like like they
Speaker 1: have to pay a fine or something like that. But
Speaker 1: in terms of actually say jail, one percent, UM, in
Speaker 1: a a very small minority are convicted. UM. And usually
Speaker 1: those there's some sort of there was a witness, there
Speaker 1: was some sort of video camera something like that. So no,
Speaker 1: I don't I didn't think of it, and I don't regret.
Speaker 1: You know, that sounds terrible because you know what people
Speaker 1: have said like, well, how is someone else going to
Speaker 1: feel better about coming forward? And I'm like, they probably shouldn't.
Speaker 1: That is terrible, but they probably shouldn't. Um. I mean,
Speaker 1: God bless and and more power to every person who
Speaker 1: does come forward, because I cannot imagine actually how difficult.
Speaker 1: I mean. I read stories of people who faced challenges
Speaker 1: at challenges as a very nice way to put it
Speaker 1: at the um hands of police or people investigating. UM. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the only there was almost out of the hundreds of
Speaker 1: people who wrote to me that it was like two
Speaker 1: people that had some sort of actual consequences for the
Speaker 1: person they accused. One UM, there were other people it
Speaker 1: was like an abuser at a camp UM and and
Speaker 1: but there were no criminal consequences, but he lost his job.
Speaker 1: And then one where the person was convicted UM serves
Speaker 1: zero jail time but had to pay the person's legal
Speaker 1: offense legal expenses. So that's not to say that's there
Speaker 1: are people that do face more consequences, but it's it's difficult.
Speaker 1: In your piece for The Times, Cat, you wrote that
Speaker 1: you went home and tried to numb your sadness and rage. UM.
Speaker 1: I can only imagine what you or anybody else is
Speaker 1: feeling at that time. How did you deal with those feelings?
Speaker 1: I think I just tried to ignore them as best
Speaker 1: I could, and um yeah, I mean I um yeah,
Speaker 1: just to kind of like pretend as if it didn't
Speaker 1: had never happened. I wasn't a dres and successful in that.
Speaker 1: I mean I talked about there was a player who
Speaker 1: UM said things. I remember because I knew like this
Speaker 1: player had was saying things um the teammate. I remember
Speaker 1: a few times where uh say, I was applying for
Speaker 1: a job, or I got contacted about a job or
Speaker 1: later you know, I got my m b A and
Speaker 1: I stayed in sports but on the business side, and
Speaker 1: I applied for jobs in Major League Baseball at UM
Speaker 1: a couple of teams. I remember interviewed with the Red
Speaker 1: Sox at one point, and I just remember being like
Speaker 1: terrified that executive was going to find out, which is
Speaker 1: really so crazy because I'm worried that someone's going to
Speaker 1: find out that someone committed a crime against me. Um.
Speaker 1: But I don't think I was wrong to think that
Speaker 1: because and that that's that's honestly one of the reasons
Speaker 1: I decided to come forward. Now, even though I like
Speaker 1: I can't prove I never told anyone. There's nothing, but
Speaker 1: if someone else is telling a false story about you,
Speaker 1: all that has had years to accumulate. I just felt like,
Speaker 1: if if I'm going to tell my true story and
Speaker 1: UM that way, if for some reason, I don't know,
Speaker 1: if I ever decided to go back to the sports sector,
Speaker 1: because honestly, I was really good at working in sports,
Speaker 1: and UM, I could go back into that space at
Speaker 1: some point if I decide to. UM, I my story
Speaker 1: is out there, as opposed to just someone else's story.
Speaker 1: It's beautiful. You know. I want to pause here and
Speaker 1: acknowledge nothing too. By the way, you know, none of
Speaker 1: this was your fault. Uh. You know you're having to
Speaker 1: talk about something that was done to you. You're not
Speaker 1: by you. And in a better society, it would be
Speaker 1: the person who did this, who committed this horrific crime
Speaker 1: and would be forced to deal with it and talk
Speaker 1: about it and face repercussions from it. And I just
Speaker 1: want to say, Kat, thank you, thank you for your
Speaker 1: bravery for doing this. We'll be right back after a
Speaker 1: word from our sponsors. After the first few days of
Speaker 1: Olympic competition, we've already seen American exceptionalism at its best,
Speaker 1: with first ever wins in some events and repeated medals
Speaker 1: in others, but we've also taken a few losses, the
Speaker 1: biggest allowing an athlete who has had multiple sexual assault
Speaker 1: accusations to compete on the world's biggest stage. Days after
Speaker 1: fencer Alan Hetzik joined the Olympic team, six women fencers
Speaker 1: filed formal complaints of sexual misconduct to the US Center
Speaker 1: for Safe Sport, the nonprofit agency responsible for protecting athletes
Speaker 1: from abuse. Yet instead of taking these complaints seriously once again,
Speaker 1: they were dismissed. Faster than shake. Harry Richardson was dismissed
Speaker 1: for taking performance enhancing drugs. You would say fencing took
Speaker 1: it a step further and created the most insulting safety
Speaker 1: plan to protect women on the team. Had sick, was
Speaker 1: required to take a separate plane to Tokyo, stay thirty
Speaker 1: minutes away from the Olympic village in his own hotel,
Speaker 1: and practice away from all women. With sports now being
Speaker 1: seven three billion upon billion dollar industry, there are still
Speaker 1: often heartwarming stories that take center stage. But as we've
Speaker 1: seen from coverage on the Olympics and even Major League Baseball,
Speaker 1: there is nowhere to hide when the line is crossed.
Speaker 1: The only hope these cowards have is to hope and
Speaker 1: hide behind those they've wrong in hopes that they stay silent.
Speaker 1: What was your perception of a Major League Baseball locker
Speaker 1: room culture and could that have created conditions for such
Speaker 1: a horrible will act, you know, to be encouraged or
Speaker 1: even or excused? You know, I think it can, But
Speaker 1: I also think like societal things can, so I don't
Speaker 1: think that baseball or any league can solve these problems
Speaker 1: on their own. And I also don't think that one
Speaker 1: act can be um say that you can say that's
Speaker 1: because of x y z or that's the result of
Speaker 1: someone failing to do x y z. UM. So that's
Speaker 1: why I really tried in my piece to say, Okay,
Speaker 1: there was this one really really terrible thing that happened,
Speaker 1: but there was also a lot of there are a
Speaker 1: lot of things less egregious, but that we're an everyday
Speaker 1: thing and so when you deal with them every day,
Speaker 1: that can in some be just as challenging, um depending
Speaker 1: depending they can um so, uh are there things baseball
Speaker 1: can do, teams can do to educate players and team
Speaker 1: officials and frankly kin media outlets educate their own members. Yes,
Speaker 1: uh is that going to run everything? Absolutely not. So
Speaker 1: I do think that there are things that can be
Speaker 1: done to kind of reduce the amount of um, you know,
Speaker 1: sexual comments, harassment, things like that, um and hopefully you know,
Speaker 1: even more stories coming out will make it less likely
Speaker 1: that some of those things happen. I think also steps
Speaker 1: taken by other people who overhear it. So not an
Speaker 1: official thing, but um, if everyone moves one or two
Speaker 1: steps uh more to like the side of good, I
Speaker 1: can say that, but that could make a huge difference.
Speaker 1: So maybe, Okay, you're probably not going to get someone
Speaker 1: who is currently committing sexual assault or rape to become
Speaker 1: just this speacon of of uh supporting women, at least
Speaker 1: not in the near term, but maybe they become less egregious.
Speaker 1: Maybe someone who would never consider assaulting someone but uh,
Speaker 1: you know, laughs about sexual harassment, maybe they don't laugh atter.
Speaker 1: Or maybe the person who doesn't even laugh about it,
Speaker 1: but stays silent when they hear a joke says, hey,
Speaker 1: actually that's not that funny. So I think those like
Speaker 1: micro steps can um may sound silly, but I think
Speaker 1: that they can make a big difference over time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when you decided to go forward and not report the perpetrator. Uh,
Speaker 1: from what you've said in other interviews, that was a
Speaker 1: decision you made because you were aware of how these
Speaker 1: things normally go, and you touched on it a little
Speaker 1: bit earlier. Um. Have you encountered with those ladies that
Speaker 1: have written you, uh any success stories where they've they're
Speaker 1: perpetrator has faced significant repercussions. Um so not really no, Um,
Speaker 1: I mean their story is of course like that exists
Speaker 1: in the world. Um Uh More, I feel like I've
Speaker 1: become even more saddened by kind of I mean, there
Speaker 1: are any number of stories is happening right now. There's
Speaker 1: I mean there's obviously the accusations against Trevor Bauer. Um
Speaker 1: with the Dodgers. There's a fencer right now in the
Speaker 1: Olympics who has so many sexual assault allegations against him, which,
Speaker 1: by the way, my my dear friend Melissa Cigara is
Speaker 1: one of the reporters on that. Um, he has these allegations,
Speaker 1: his whole team doesn't want him to be there. They
Speaker 1: had to fly him on a different plane. Like that
Speaker 1: means these are there's some legit, you know, there's a
Speaker 1: lot behind these allegations. It's not one person, and so
Speaker 1: that just kind of makes me sad that like, Okay,
Speaker 1: well we care, and yet someone's not in the Olympics
Speaker 1: because she tested positive for marijuana. Look, I know, I
Speaker 1: know there are rules, but we have to bend over
Speaker 1: backwards to have this person be an alternate who has
Speaker 1: and he's an alternate. He's an alternate because you're going, well,
Speaker 1: he must be really good, no, not good enough to
Speaker 1: not be an alternate at this point apparently, and they're
Speaker 1: giving him the benefit of the So, I mean, there
Speaker 1: was of all the people who wrote to me, uh,
Speaker 1: I would say that the first week after my peace
Speaker 1: came out, I was it was really overwhelming. Just look
Speaker 1: I had I heard from hundreds of people who I
Speaker 1: know who care about me, reached out to support, be supportive. UM.
Speaker 1: There were some you know, trolls on the Internet and
Speaker 1: such that like say you're lying and whatever. But what
Speaker 1: was really the most devastating were hearing from so many people.
Speaker 1: I heard from complete strangers. I heard from friends, acquaintances, relatives, colleagues,
Speaker 1: people I went to school with, UM, other reporters, all
Speaker 1: of whom said like they either were sexually assaulted or raped,
Speaker 1: some more than once in their life. And it was
Speaker 1: just so sad to here and it made me really think,
Speaker 1: like every single one of these people, in some way, smaller, big,
Speaker 1: no matter how strong or resilient whatever, has been negatively
Speaker 1: affected by this, Every single one and some in you know,
Speaker 1: life alterin ways that they have never been able to
Speaker 1: people spiral and uh, you know, I've listened to some
Speaker 1: of your podcasts and people talk about, you know, one
Speaker 1: terrible thing happened that ended up caused them to spiral.
Speaker 1: And um, so every single one of the person who
Speaker 1: has been sexually assaulted or raped has had negative consequences
Speaker 1: in their life. And think about how much better we
Speaker 1: as a society could be if each of those people
Speaker 1: us be we people. I guess I didn't have that burden,
Speaker 1: Like what could each of those people have accomplished? What
Speaker 1: heights could they have reached? And that's true not just
Speaker 1: it's also true of you know, of racism, of bigotry,
Speaker 1: of all kinds of things, but they're thinking about that
Speaker 1: one aspect of the sexual assault, sexual harassment. We could
Speaker 1: be so much better as a world if everyone, you know,
Speaker 1: could reach their full full potential preach on can you
Speaker 1: look back now and see did you like pour yourself
Speaker 1: into your job or into running marathons or you know,
Speaker 1: did you exercise? How did you cope? I mean I
Speaker 1: definitely was very focused on my job. I definitely did
Speaker 1: not date really at all for a few years, I
Speaker 1: would say, like really until I moved to New York
Speaker 1: for the most part. Um I so I I mean
Speaker 1: psychologists could probably say there's you know, you're avoiding um,
Speaker 1: potential dangerous situations or or physically or psychiogically like, um, yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean it's also easy to at the time be like, oh,
Speaker 1: of course I'm working. Well, I mean I'm I was
Speaker 1: covering baseball, I'm traveling a hundred eighty days a year
Speaker 1: for work. I I worked nights and weekends. So it's
Speaker 1: pretty easy to be like, oh, I don't have time
Speaker 1: to date, because that's you have to make time for it. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think I was pretty focused on my
Speaker 1: my job, and you know I was. I was at
Speaker 1: the time in like covering high schools and helping out
Speaker 1: with baseball and other sports. And then I became the
Speaker 1: second baseball writer, um, like a few months a year later,
Speaker 1: and then for the start telling room, I had two
Speaker 1: baseball writers, and I became the lead baseball writer, and
Speaker 1: then I moved to New York and covered the Yankees
Speaker 1: for Newsday. So um, so yeah. I stayed covering baseball
Speaker 1: until two thousand nine, when I left to go get
Speaker 1: my m b A. So um. I guess probably was
Speaker 1: continued to be very career focused. Um, not that I'm
Speaker 1: not anymore, but it's certainly not the only thing in
Speaker 1: my life. Right, We'll be right back after a word
Speaker 1: from our sponsors. Respected former sports journalist Cat O'Brien, in
Speaker 1: an opinion piece for The New York Times, kept me
Speaker 1: this public for the first time that she was raped
Speaker 1: by a Major League baseball player in two thousand two.
Speaker 1: She was just twenty two at the time. She was
Speaker 1: a year out of college, and she says she never
Speaker 1: reported what happened because she was afraid of the backlash.
Speaker 1: She writes that it was quote a trauma that had
Speaker 1: been living inside me for eighteen years. Eighteen years, two
Speaker 1: years old. This could have happened to your loved one. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: possibly it has, whether you know it or not. Those
Speaker 1: who use their positions of power for sexual impropriety. Your
Speaker 1: day of reckoning is upon you. We are seeing it
Speaker 1: in industries and in countries around the globe. We almost
Speaker 1: do our best to protect those in need. And if
Speaker 1: you are a loved one needs to hear this. Share
Speaker 1: your voice. I support you, speak your truth. It sounds
Speaker 1: strange to say this, but what are the positives you
Speaker 1: hope will come from you adding your voice to this
Speaker 1: issue of Yeah, sexual assault, but also the problem of
Speaker 1: women not feeling believed or safe to report their sexual assaults. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I had kind of three things in mind. Basically
Speaker 1: that I hope one that some other people. It's been
Speaker 1: mostly women, but I have heard from some and um
Speaker 1: would uh either feel comfortable coming forward, whether publicly, or
Speaker 1: would at least seek help from friends or or support
Speaker 1: um or at least not blame themselves. So somehow that
Speaker 1: people would find comfort. And a lot of people have
Speaker 1: written to me. Some have written to me that told
Speaker 1: me they don't like only told one of their persons,
Speaker 1: So I do think that it's had some positive effect
Speaker 1: in that way. UM. Secondly, this one is the one
Speaker 1: that I think the jury is out on. I hope
Speaker 1: and hope that some leagues and or teams not because
Speaker 1: isn't just a baseball problem by any stretch. UM might
Speaker 1: do some things to make less likely the general air
Speaker 1: of sexual harassment. This can also be media outlets, by
Speaker 1: the way, but do leagues MLB but also other leagues
Speaker 1: or individual teams put in place more education, more awareness
Speaker 1: of sexual assault, sexual harassment, all of it. UM. So
Speaker 1: you can't prevent all of it, you definitely can't, but
Speaker 1: you can make it less likely. I mean, I mentioned
Speaker 1: piece there was one time, only one time that I
Speaker 1: ever spoke up UM and I was I really didn't
Speaker 1: want to, and I but I felt like something had
Speaker 1: kind of there was a evolution where something was getting worse,
Speaker 1: players were feeling comfortable to do something, and I ended
Speaker 1: up saying something and the team was super supportive and uh,
Speaker 1: and so that was it was Brian Cashman like, thank you.
Speaker 1: He was super on the ball, UM like very much. So,
Speaker 1: So you know, things like that I think can help
Speaker 1: so with management if teams, if player leadership are are
Speaker 1: UM not accepting. So that's one thing though that I
Speaker 1: hope more teams in leagues. I think there's more that
Speaker 1: can be done there. I know there's more that can
Speaker 1: be done there has Major League Baseball done anything as
Speaker 1: a group at all to do that, And I want
Speaker 1: to say that I don't know that NBA has or
Speaker 1: the NFL has either. I know that all the leagues
Speaker 1: have some sort of at least minimal training or education.
Speaker 1: I don't know all the ins and outs. I haven't heard.
Speaker 1: I talked to one person from Major League Baseball really
Speaker 1: not on a official matter. I haven't heard from them
Speaker 1: in an official capacity. I don't know of any specifics
Speaker 1: of statement to CNN when I went on CNN, um,
Speaker 1: and I did hear from one person there? Um I
Speaker 1: think I also, I mean I heard from a couple
Speaker 1: of managers and coaches who I know in the league.
Speaker 1: I heard from one player, and that's yeah. It's so
Speaker 1: one person working for the league to people who have
Speaker 1: been coaches or managers on teams like or or executives
Speaker 1: on teams I covered, and one player total, So that
Speaker 1: that actually was surprising and disappointing to me, because there
Speaker 1: are players who have kept in touch with over the years,
Speaker 1: at least sporadically that I would have thought would say
Speaker 1: something reach out. But and then the last thing, the
Speaker 1: last one that I hope would have an impact. This
Speaker 1: is one that literally every one of us can do.
Speaker 1: So I talked about this earlier, but just those like
Speaker 1: little stuffs, micro changes. I mean. I I mentioned in
Speaker 1: my piece that the first two guys people I'm close
Speaker 1: to that I told about this, um, they both were like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, that's so awful. Support you believe you.
Speaker 1: But they also were like, but you couldn't get away,
Speaker 1: and uh, one in any situation, someone can't always get away.
Speaker 1: But then on top of it, you're talking about a
Speaker 1: professional athlete who is one professional athlete but also outweighed
Speaker 1: me by a lot. So to have two people who
Speaker 1: are really close to you say that, just that chip
Speaker 1: of awareness. But even on a broader level, like I said,
Speaker 1: jokes when someone around you is making a joke about
Speaker 1: sexual harassment or or that like oh all women x
Speaker 1: y Z just being a little more cognizant. Look. I
Speaker 1: would love to never have to ever talk about this.
Speaker 1: I would love to never have to like raise awareness
Speaker 1: to share awful stories. I would love for never happen
Speaker 1: because and recently especially as like since this has come out,
Speaker 1: and you know, if I see a story, I might
Speaker 1: like retweet it or I share it and I don't
Speaker 1: want that, Like, that is not the thing I want
Speaker 1: to talk about life. There's so many other things I
Speaker 1: care about, So just stop doing it and then none
Speaker 1: of us will have to talk about it, like really, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know. And I'm gonna tell you something that that
Speaker 1: um Rick Pettino told me once he was I had
Speaker 1: had a um I was had a painkiller issue for
Speaker 1: many years, if you didn't know, and um I was
Speaker 1: in rehab and he came to see me and I said, listen,
Speaker 1: nobody's ever gonna want to talk to me anymore. He said,
Speaker 1: You're gonna be fine. I said, I'm toxic, nobody you know.
Speaker 1: And he said, Rex, your story is going to help
Speaker 1: a lot of people. And I said, this isn't my
Speaker 1: fucking story. Through tears, I understand. Two weeks later I
Speaker 1: had to accept, or a month later, two years later,
Speaker 1: it's my story and it's just going to be part
Speaker 1: of my story. And I say that to say this
Speaker 1: that I can't imagine the pain not only during and
Speaker 1: when you were young, but that you've carried all these years.
Speaker 1: And I don't know that there's ever a perfect time,
Speaker 1: but in this climate we're in, you're gonna help so
Speaker 1: many people because I think you're gonna you are going
Speaker 1: to empower other women, other reporters. Um, it's not just women,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, to to share their stories. So I
Speaker 1: hope so and yeah and thanks for thanks for that.
Speaker 1: And you know, I want to say on on that No, well,
Speaker 1: I definitely had the same reaction. I don't want this
Speaker 1: to be my story. But I guess we don't always
Speaker 1: get to choose what, um might be part of our story.
Speaker 1: But on the you know, the opioid addiction, I feel
Speaker 1: so grateful. So I, Um, I mentioned that I had
Speaker 1: a concussion that led to a stroke. Um, I knew
Speaker 1: about the stroke. Yeah, the month after I graduated from Warton,
Speaker 1: I got sick on airplane. Um, they found me unconscious.
Speaker 1: I'd hit my head. It caused me to have I'd
Speaker 1: never had a migraine. I had a migraine for almost
Speaker 1: two years and not caused a stroke. But I am
Speaker 1: really grateful that I never and lucky that I did
Speaker 1: not develop an opiate addiction because I was taking like
Speaker 1: I was taking like purcose at oxygen and it actually
Speaker 1: did it actually didn't even barely touch the pain. I
Speaker 1: was in that much pain. So maybe because it didn't
Speaker 1: help me that much. I didn't get but but in
Speaker 1: knowing how easy it can be, you know, just by
Speaker 1: the wrong luck. I've heard so many stories, So I'm
Speaker 1: glad that you were able to get off. But I'm
Speaker 1: I'm you know, I'm fortunate that I didn't um because
Speaker 1: because I was having to take those for pain. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And you know, also I looked back and I was
Speaker 1: taking them. You're lucky also because I was taking them
Speaker 1: for emotional pain as well, and that as a you know,
Speaker 1: I'm glad they didn't work for you. When I say that,
Speaker 1: this video is said, well, why Jimmy bother and Rachel
Speaker 1: Nichols inde hooked up in the hotel in the bubble.
Speaker 1: There's a ton of proto supporties clean. So let's get
Speaker 1: straight to another thing real quick. What's your opinion about
Speaker 1: the role social media plays on journalism today? How a
Speaker 1: story that has no confirmation, like Jimmy Butler and Rachel
Speaker 1: Nichols married, uh kids supposedly became intimate during the NBA
Speaker 1: bubble can go viral? How can reporters and even the
Speaker 1: audience know how to sift through and react to an
Speaker 1: overabundance of information that is really tough, and I'm I'm
Speaker 1: actually wrestling. I'm trying to write something UM right now
Speaker 1: related to kind of social media UM and women on it,
Speaker 1: particularly Twitter, UM, because I know something I've noticed. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm talking particularly from a professional standpoint. UM. There's certain
Speaker 1: industries where it can be really beneficial for people's careers. UM.
Speaker 1: And I'm noticing women tend to be less active, and
Speaker 1: one of the reasons is they we tend to get
Speaker 1: a lot of betrayal sometimes. I mean I talked to
Speaker 1: some people that have gotten like explicit rape threats, explicit
Speaker 1: UM people. There's an Olympian right now, there's a UM
Speaker 1: piece that just came out on her being stalked for years. UM.
Speaker 1: So I get why someone would choose to be less active. Nevertheless,
Speaker 1: I mean thinking as a journalist, it's certainly an important
Speaker 1: part of the profession. So that's a really tricky thing.
Speaker 1: How do people sift through what's true? I guess all
Speaker 1: of us and myself included, but we should all probably
Speaker 1: be more careful about what we're sharing what's the source.
Speaker 1: But how reliable is that? Like I don't know anything
Speaker 1: about what if anything happened between them? UM. But I
Speaker 1: certainly have heard my share of women falsely accused of
Speaker 1: sleeping with a player or just sleeping with someone whoever
Speaker 1: because someone famous? What have you? Um? And and and
Speaker 1: also like also the athlete, like he shouldn't be accused,
Speaker 1: he I who knows? He? I think I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't remember if he's married or not. But he shouldn't
Speaker 1: be falsely accused and nobody should be. I don't know
Speaker 1: what happened. Um so but um, you know I that
Speaker 1: was something. I mean, even on social media. I think
Speaker 1: when it was in one of my last year's covering baseball,
Speaker 1: but I remember the post stories about a rod Um
Speaker 1: coming out, and I specifically remember talking to players being like, whoa,
Speaker 1: this is not something that people write about about marital infidelity.
Speaker 1: And that's obviously changed and people do write about that now,
Speaker 1: But I don't know that that's necessarily a good thing.
Speaker 1: And I guess, I guess if it's you know, I
Speaker 1: do I remember stories over the years of you know,
Speaker 1: maybe if it was an infidelity, like say with the teammates,
Speaker 1: something that's messing with you know, the team. Um, but
Speaker 1: I don't know that. I don't know that Again, in
Speaker 1: lesson if it's a crime, then yes, absolutely, like if
Speaker 1: someone's a sexual assault or something. But I think rumors
Speaker 1: about what people might be doing sexually, um, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily see the need for it. And certainly,
Speaker 1: um there are some outlets that like to to stir
Speaker 1: things up, and um I tend to not spend a
Speaker 1: lot of time on them. But same here, Um cat,
Speaker 1: what's next for you? How can our listeners follow your journey? Uh? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean I'm not working in sports presently, so I
Speaker 1: don't know if I want be the most interesting you
Speaker 1: want to. Sometimes I think about that. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: I've been working in fintech for six years, so I'm
Speaker 1: not working in sports at all. But yeah, sometimes I
Speaker 1: have thoughts of uh, you know, I mean, even as
Speaker 1: this was about to be published, I saw, uh, like
Speaker 1: so six weeks ago or something, I saw like a
Speaker 1: really interesting job at MLB at Major League Baseball, and
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't think I can apply for
Speaker 1: that right now. It would be just weird. You can, well,
Speaker 1: it's just felt weird. Um Uh, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know if my journey will take me back
Speaker 1: to sports at any point. I think you know, I
Speaker 1: worked at ESPN for a few years on the business side, UM,
Speaker 1: specifically the Spanish language side, like digital media, strategy, UM social.
Speaker 1: While I was in business school, I interned at Real Madrid. UM.
Speaker 1: I love, I love working on those partnerships. I mean,
Speaker 1: maybe maybe the best fit is if I were to
Speaker 1: work on sponsorships at my own current company or UM.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know. It's not something I'm presently
Speaker 1: like pursuing, UM, but I wouldn't rule it out in
Speaker 1: the in the future. Well, I know, I know if
Speaker 1: I could see sports in your future UM. And you've
Speaker 1: only brought Spain up six times during the interview, so
Speaker 1: maybe something in in international baseball and all that. I think,
Speaker 1: you know, if opportunity to present itself in like football
Speaker 1: and and a Spaniard or you know, work I when
Speaker 1: I was at this well tis in Spain together. When
Speaker 1: I was at the ESPN, I got Rafa an ad
Speaker 1: All to do the this is Sports Center commercial, So
Speaker 1: you can just go work and the tennis league over there.
Speaker 1: Oh that would be great. Cat Listen, I want to
Speaker 1: thank you for your time, for your bravery and telling
Speaker 1: your story. I want you to know that I'll always
Speaker 1: continue to use my platform to advocate for a world
Speaker 1: of decency and safety. Also for a world where women
Speaker 1: are able to work in sports or anywhere with men
Speaker 1: as equals, and be able to tell people their experiences
Speaker 1: without fear for their safety, careers or reputations. Thank you again,
Speaker 1: and please reach out if there's ever anything I can do.
Speaker 1: Cat Thanks, thanks for all you do. Rex, appreciate you.
Speaker 1: Take care. Charges seveing no Runnians with the law charges,
Speaker 1: st Lee send the tennis and balls and charges the
Speaker 1: celebrity gank Forums charges. We came along but from living
Speaker 1: lawless charges. Seveing no Runnians with the law charges st
Speaker 1: Lee send the tennis and ball as charges. The celebrity
Speaker 1: gank forlorums. Charge We came along but from living lawless.
Speaker 1: Charge Charges is created by Portlay and Control Media that's
Speaker 1: produced by DV Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio.
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