WEBVTT - Vol. 14: Kat O'Brien 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:04.080 Charges. That's created by Portas and Control Media. It's produced 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:10.760 by DV Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio. This 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:14.000 time a former Sons player who you might remember as 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:16.360 t Rex. More video in just a moment, but this 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:18.880 is Rex Chapman's mug sewn and we are learning a 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:22.440 lot more about the charge its charges. Would it surprise 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:28.680 the listeners how often a player or organization member crosses 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:32.040 the line. Every once in a while there might be 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:38.000 some comments, someone asking like what sexual positions like? Or 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:41.559 what are you wearing under your or your pants. I 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:44.280 don't regret not coming forward because there's no chance I 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:46.400 would have been believed, and there's no chance that could 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:52.760 have continued in my career. Zero zero Welcome to Charges. 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:59.200 I'm your host Rex Chapman. Today on the show, we 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:01.400 have a very differ for the type of guests and 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:04.240 a story to tell. I'm a man who has three 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:07.880 daughters and a younger sister, so this episode really strikes 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:09.920 a deep chord for me to help make this world 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:12.880 of sports a better place today than when I was playing. 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:16.720 I'm proud to have on former sports journalist Kat O'Brien, 0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:20.600 who for years covered Major League Baseball, but During that time, 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:24.000 she held onto a secret. Cat worked at the Fort 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:30.400 Worth Star Telegram, Newsday, and ESPN before ultimately leaving sports journalism. 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:33.160 She was a rising star who was taken advantage of 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:36.240 in a despicable way by a coward of a man. 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:39.360 What's worse because that it was committed by one of 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:43.440 her peers, a professional athlete. A few weeks ago, she 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:45.840 wrote a piece for The New York Times and told 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:49.400 her story, one that she's held onto for eighteen years. 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:51.960 If you haven't read it, I encourage you to do 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:55.360 so before we get started. I want to read this. 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:58.920 One part of her piece to you, Cat writes, I 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:01.280 don't want this assault to be what people think of 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:04.080 when they think of me. I don't want pity. Being 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:06.240 a survivor of rape is only a tiny part of 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:09.760 my story. There are hundreds of things more interesting about me, 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:13.400 such as my passion for Spain. I've run six marathons 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:16.400 and qualified for the Boston since having a stroke. That 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:19.560 I've worked for several companies, the most recognized and respected 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:22.639 companies in the world, and that I volunteer with International 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:26.320 Rescue Committee. I've traveled to more than thirty countries on 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:30.120 my own moved abroad, learned to scuba dive in St. Lucia, 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:33.400 kite surf in Spain and Brazil, and have been one 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:36.640 of the few women in many spaces. I haven't lost 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:52.840 my optimism. Cat. What an honor it is to have 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:55.440 you on the show today. Thank you for being here. 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:58.360 Thanks for having me rox Um. I appreciate you're giving 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:01.200 me the opportunity to talk with you and reach your audience. 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:03.600 We'll get into everything about you, but I want to 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:05.839 start here. Uh, tell me about your life as a kid. 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:07.959 Where are you from? How were you drawn into the 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:12.640 world of sports. Sure, I'm from Davenport, Iowa, so quad cities, 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:15.440 kind of the middle of America, right on the Mississippi River. 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:19.040 I was the tomboy. Uh. You know, played a lot 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:21.200 of sports, did a lot of other things too, But 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:25.440 I didn't have any expectation to go into sports as 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:29.520 a career. But I really liked telling stories. I really 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:33.560 like journalism. I went to Notre Dame for college, which 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:37.800 certainly has a pretty strong sports history, and uh, I 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:40.640 worked for the student newspaper, which is a daily paper 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:45.720 Monday through Friday, and found covering sports to be get 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:49.320 a lot more attention and interest from people than covering 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:54.760 what professor was giving a lecture or whether a restaurant 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:58.360 on campus might stay open half an hour later. UM. 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:02.000 And so I kind of started doing more sports and 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:05.640 then I remember really clearly. Actually actually it's sad timing, 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:09.600 but uh, this professional track athlete Paul McMullen raced on 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:12.200 a in a meet on campus, and I did a 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:15.640 feature on him, and he he sent me a handwritten 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:18.920 note a couple several weeks later, after USA Today had 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:21.200 also done a piece, and UM, he said that my 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:25.800 piece was better. And I was like this year old, 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:28.599 and I was like, wow, this is really cool, this 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:32.919 you know athlete. UM. And sadly he actually just died 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:36.400 this year in an accident. UM. But he helped kind 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:39.719 of push me, like I'm gonna do more sports and 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:43.320 then you know the UM. Yeah, so those small things 0:04:43.320 --> 0:04:49.160 that someone does can sometimes have unexpected consequences and intentions, 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:52.839 and and so you know, I focused more in sports 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:56.800 and the newspaper and then ended up getting an internship. UH. 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:59.599 The summer I graduated through the Association of Women in 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:03.039 Sports Media, and UH, I joined the Fort Worth Star 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:06.080 Telegram as an intern, thinking maybe I could get on 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:09.560 it like a small paper somewhere. The Star Telegram was 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:11.720 one of the top sports sections in the country, and 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:14.520 they ended up hiring me full time. And so that's 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:18.440 that's my story and how I got into sports pretty much. Look, 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:21.520 I gotta say, uh, my entry in the media was 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:24.640 tough because of my background in personal life. But I 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.799 never had to be an intern. But I got hired 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:30.920 coming right out of the summer. Um, actually part way 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:33.719 through the summer, I got an offer and then started 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:38.560 covering primarily high school sports and then also would help 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:40.920 out with kind of whatever or else was near the 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:44.160 high school sports in Texas or a big deal. We 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:47.920 had at the time different sections depending on which area 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:51.520 of the region people lived in, so you know, with 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:54.880 subscribers would get a certain edition, and UM covered a 0:05:54.920 --> 0:06:00.719 lot of high school sports, football, basketball, baseball, try everything there, 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:05.080 very very very popular next level, and then would help 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:07.520 out with a lot of other things, especially you know, 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:10.320 in the summer there aren't high school high school sports, 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:14.520 so UM baseball. I had, you know, studied Spanish, so 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:19.040 baseball was really a particularly a natural fit because I 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:22.240 brought something that um, you know, most people wouldn't have 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:25.479 in terms of being able to speak Spanish with players. 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:31.320 What was your favorite part about covering baseball. I mean, 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:33.760 you you can get to know people really well because 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:37.200 they play every day. So I think you know, that 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:41.640 gives reporters a better chance to get to know players. UM. 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:44.159 I think that can be tougher in a big media 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:48.440 market like New York, for instance, because there's so many reporters. 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:52.560 Players maybe a little more guarded with good reason. Um, 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:56.039 but you know, when you're around people every day like 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:59.200 in Texas and there are only a handful their their 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:02.640 day in and day out. In terms of reporters, you can, 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:04.839 you know, potentially get a chance to get to know people. 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:09.000 While I think I always tried to be fair with uh, 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:12.480 not just players, with everyone around sport, and um, I 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:17.280 think that people recognize that. Most people recognize that, and UM, yeah, 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:20.200 so I think just the day and day out aspect 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:22.840 of it. While that can be a challenge, UM, it 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:26.200 also can and give you a better opportunity to know people. 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:30.040 As compared to football like NFL, where they're playing once 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:33.360 a week, a lock around maxis is super limited. Uh, 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:36.040 interview access is really limited. I think it's harder to 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:39.240 get to know the players in that space. At what 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:43.320 point did you have the realization, Oh, because I'm a woman, 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.040 this job is going to be different for me than 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:51.880 if I was a man. Mm hmm, that's a good question. Um. 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:54.640 I guess it's just sort of a gradual thing. You know. 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:56.240 It's like, I don't know that I thought about it 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:59.640 much in college. Um. You know, college your access is 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:03.800 more limited on a college campus as opposed to professional athletes. 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:07.440 There are a lot of comments in the atmosphere that 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:10.720 you deal with. Um, this is not just players, So 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:14.120 I'm not singling out players by any stretch. This is 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:18.640 just the whole atmosphere. So UM, I don't buy any 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:23.680 stretch things that players were more guilty of sexual harassment 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:29.280 or anything than other people around the sport or or 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:33.920 in life really. But um, but it is a very 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:38.439 male dominated atmosphere. So whether that's from you know, agents, 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:43.400 to coaches, to players to other reporters, UM, it's just 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:45.880 a reality that you deal with. I I do remember 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:49.320 like a few times talking to other women, but there 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:52.679 weren't a lot of other women covering baseball, So maybe 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:57.040 talk to another woman who was working in Dallas sport 0:08:57.080 --> 0:08:59.960 wars but not covering baseball. Or or one of the 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.600 few women who was coming baseball if they had any tips. 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:06.400 Then again, you're like, twenty three, how much do you 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:08.960 want to bother this person who's been working in the 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:12.280 game for ten twenty thirty years or in the industry 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:17.200 for that long. Um. And I remember different people talking 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:20.280 about different approaches based on their personality, based on the 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:24.600 experiences they'd have, because uh, you could. I mean, two 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:28.240 people working in the same sport in the same sector 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:31.840 don't have the same experiences, so you might not have 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:36.520 had maybe maybe you covered a team where someone was 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:40.120 really egregious, or maybe the exact opposite, where a captain 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:43.160 of the team was like, hey, you don't you don't 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:48.640 do this, and then that person had a big positive effect. UM. 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:52.480 So I think, you know, dependent on the atmosphere, of course, 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.920 then it are you traveling, are you on the road? Um? 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:59.520 And and then personality wise, like there are people who 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:03.880 have a certain personality where they're going to react more strongly, 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:06.560 they're going to things are going to roll off them 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:10.280 more easily. And then age, I mean, if I was 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:14.800 I was twenty two, twenty three in my twenties the 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:18.160 whole time I covered baseball, so Uh, you're at the 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:21.360 same age or in many cases younger. Maybe then a 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:24.880 lot of the players. Um and if I had been 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:27.120 in my fifties, I'm sure it would be a different 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:32.040 one based on what you would encounter. But to based 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:37.160 on even now, I would probably have a different response. 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:41.800 I might take a little less language, but that's right, 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:50.200 say whatever you like. A lot has been made in 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:53.320 the last few years about locker room talk. The locker 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:55.600 rooms of today are very different from my era in 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:59.440 coverage and decency. I'm ashamed to admit that wild teammates 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:03.439 belittle female reporters with inappropriate conduct. I, as a young man, 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:06.320 did not step in like I should have, which makes 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:09.480 me complicit. The workplace is meant to be a safe 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:12.480 haven for all, but sadly, across sports, we're seeing a 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:15.880 pattern of vile behavior from the past to the president 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:19.640 that must be corrected. The president of l s U 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:22.720 says there was a quote institutional betrayal and how the 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:27.160 university handled accusations of sexual misconduct. This comes as an 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:30.760 outside law firm released its report of failures to address 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:34.560 such issues on campus. Fifteen former female employees of the 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:37.600 Washington Redskins have accused members of the team's front office 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:40.680 of sexual and verbal harassment. This and a new report 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:43.640 from The Washington Post. The accusations spanned from two thousand 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:47.320 six or two thousand nineteen and include longtime radio voice 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:50.720 Larry Michael, also director of Pro Personal Alex Santos, and 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:54.319 his assistant Richard Matt new report on sexual harassment in 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:57.440 the Dallas Mavericks basketball team, investigators have found a hostile 0:11:57.480 --> 0:11:59.839 culture for women at the team owned by billionaire MARKQ. 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.720 Been Cuban and his Mavericks facing the bite of a 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:08.120 bombshell report revealing multiple instances of sexual harassment and workplaced 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:13.040 misconduct over two decades, Carolina Panthers founder and principal owner 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:16.160 Jerry Richardson announced his plans to sell the team at 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:18.960 the end of the season, amid reports he gave payouts 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:22.760 to four former employees to settle claims of misconduct and 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:26.240 racial slurs. Just five weeks after he was hired, the 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:30.000 Mets dismissed their general manager, Jared Porter. He was quickly 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:33.000 fired today when news of a sexting scandal went public, 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:36.360 and the Mets organization says it knew nothing about the 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:39.959 allegations until Jared Porter called them last night. They say 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:43.120 he told them about the disturbing claims being made against 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:46.920 him by a female reporter from Korea. The Mets say 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:50.840 he took full responsibility for his actions and expressed remorse. 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:57.920 I gotta say this, Uh, I was a teenager entering 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:01.680 the NBA in the late eighties, and it was right 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:05.240 at that time that, um, you know, ladies were coming 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:10.040 in the locker room and um, I you know, and 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:12.640 I've never talked to them about it, but I saw 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:17.080 Hannah Storm worked in Charlotte, and uh, she was one 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:20.320 of the first that I knew that came into the 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:27.760 locker room. Uh. The other was Jackie McMullin. And I witnessed, 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:32.840 you know, just awful things you know, take place where 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:36.920 you know, obviously I saw that they saw, you know, 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:42.080 what was happening, and just the strength that it took 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:47.560 to continue to work and thrive in that environment. So 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:52.640 how would you describe your professional relationship with athletes during 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:57.320 your career and would it surprise the listeners how often 0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:03.480 a player or organization member or crosses the line. Um, 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:07.800 I mean I would say with the vast majority of people, UM, 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:12.400 for the most part, I had a good and professional relationship. 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:17.120 I would say most players, uh by and large, treated 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:23.320 me very professionally. Um. Even some said things like, oh 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:26.080 you know I would I would think of you like 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:28.560 a sister or something. I wouldn't want someone to treat 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:33.960 my sister x y Z way, and so would um. 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:36.360 You know, in some cases even be more cordial, where 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:39.800 they might have snapped at a male athlete like they 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:42.560 didn't want to because they didn't think they should treat 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:46.920 a woman that way. So UM, I would say most 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:50.880 players and most people around the game generally treated me 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:54.720 well and or or if not well, of the same 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:58.680 way they would have treated a male athlete or a reporter. Sorry. 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:03.000 You know, like if if someone and I'm not gonna 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:06.880 negatively call out anybody, but if if a certain player 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:09.800 known for sort of snapping at reporters snapped at me, 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:11.960 I wasn't probably because I was a woman. That was 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:14.560 just because hey, he was saying me like everyone else. 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:20.080 So you know, there's one athlete who, um was a 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:24.880 notorious jerke. I mean I don't if anyone said he 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:27.640 wasn't a jerk, I would be shocked, Like he's probably 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:30.280 the person you're thinking of. You're thinking of this person 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:33.760 but I'm not going to name negatively name any person. Um. 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:38.000 And he also he one time, like or more than 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:43.120 one time, I remember, purposely like basically walked around naked, 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:46.200 so because you know, you would try to not be 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:49.640 looking if someone's changing. So that one was a very 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:54.600 obvious one. Um. So was that him being kind of 0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:56.920 a sexist jerk? Yes? Was he just a jerk in 0:15:57.000 --> 0:16:02.160 general to almost everyone? Yes? So um so Yeah. And 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:07.120 then there were others who by and large would treat 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:10.160 me well. But every once in a while there might 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:16.240 be some comments, someone asking like what sexual positions like 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:20.160 or what are you wearing under your scart or your pants, 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:24.880 which like obviously not okay, um, but also other reporters 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:28.280 making jokes about such and such female reporter must be 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:31.600 sleeping with so and so um And I couldn't even 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:36.120 think how many people uh said that over time. Uh. 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:40.320 And given I heard it said about um a lot 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:42.680 of other women, I can only assume what was said 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:45.320 about almost all of them at one point or another. 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:49.160 So it's so sad, it really is. And when I 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:52.400 talked about I'm glad you said it, you know, kind 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:54.640 of freed me up. You know, one of my first 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:59.800 experiences with female in the locker room. Um, you know, 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:04.640 I had teammate who just kind of waited for the 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:07.920 the reporter to come in and then took off his 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:12.959 towel and then started, you know, using the lotion on 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:16.760 his legs and to you know, didn't start the interview 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:21.520 until that happened. Now, of course I'm calling that guy out. 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:26.240 Uh at nineteen and twenty and twenty one and hell, 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:32.000 maybe even thirty one, I don't know. I didn't and 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:37.760 that makes me feel bad. We'll be right back after 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:43.439 a word from our sponsors. The Department of Justice says 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:45.919 eighteen percent of women in the United States have been 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:51.160 raped at some point in their lifetime. Eighteen that's almost 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:54.960 one out of every five women, or the populations of 0:17:55.040 --> 0:18:00.800 Washington State, Oregon, Idaho, Nevada, Montana, Wyoming, and Utah combined. 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:06.320 And about two thirds of victims know their attacker. So 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:10.520 why do you only six of cases get reported? Well, 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:14.960 it's complicated. Sometimes victims don't want to get the offender 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:19.800 in trouble. Sometimes they believe police can't help. But every 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:23.080 time a victim is dealing with some sort of trauma, 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:27.280 most times we think of physical, emotional, or mental trauma. 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:30.680 But what if I told you sexual assault victims are 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:35.119 also hit financially. The d o J finds that almost 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:39.240 fifty of sexual assault survivors lose their jobs who are 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:51.560 forced to quit. On June, Cat published an op ed 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:54.359 in The New York Times, and she came forward about 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:57.160 the rape for the first time. The piece sent shock 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:00.520 waves throughout the sports media world, but to day, none 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:03.439 of the league's including Major League Baseball, have acknowledged it 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:08.679 as a moment of reckoning. I want to ask, and 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:11.639 just as a starting point, I know you wrote about 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:15.280 what happened, and you've talked about in other interviews, but 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:18.440 still are you comfortable with talking about what happened? And 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:20.520 I want you to know whatever level of comfort you 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:24.400 have or don't have at any point, just please it's 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:28.440 okay too, and I'll stop and respect that. Yeah, I'll 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:31.800 do I'll do my best to us and so we'll 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:37.359 go as much as I can. I got it, Okay, thanks? Um, okay, 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:40.119 So if you're willing, can can we talk about the 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:42.800 day of the incident or days leading up to it 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:48.280 and that week you know, sort of coming to the head. Yeah, So, um, 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:55.080 I just uh, one player, Um, not on the team 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:58.160 that I covered, so I I have at no point, 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:02.040 although some role sluice on the internet like to think 0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:05.680 they can guess who. I very specifically did not give 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:08.479 any clues other than saying it was not a player 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:11.960 on a team I covered. So UM of his name 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:16.880 player wanted to UH said he wanted to talk confidentially 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:21.160 for a story I was doing. UM. I thought that 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:26.920 seemed plausible. Initially suggested meeting like at a bar someplace, 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:29.800 because it was going to be after the game. UH, 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:35.800 so that's what would be open UM. And then he said, oh, 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:37.960 I don't want someone to see and know I was 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:42.400 talking to you. UM, can can we do it at 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:49.639 my hotel? And I decided yes. I was very trusting 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:53.800 and thought, sure he was talking, that seems plausible. He 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:58.480 doesn't want one to know, UM, and so uh so 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:03.600 I went to um his hotel room after the game 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:06.639 after I got done parting, and had you know, my 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:11.000 notebook and pen and recorded to you know, interview him, 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:15.600 and sat down to interview him. And it did start 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:19.320 as that. So there wasn't an indication when I got 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:23.040 there that there was any other purpose or anything else 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:25.960 that he was looking for. It it all seemed straightforward. 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:32.120 He was not wearing like no clothes or anything crazy. Um. 0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:35.119 And then uh, you know, after a few minutes, he 0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:39.399 moved to kiss me, and I was taken aback, and 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:42.639 It's like, what are you doing? And I'm probably not 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:45.679 going to like feel comfortable going into love of detail, 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:51.240 but he just he continued to kissed me and pushed 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:54.600 me towards the bed and then he did not, um stop, 0:21:54.680 --> 0:21:56.840 and he did not take note for an answer, and 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:05.159 um and UM, I uh yeah, I UM. I never 0:22:05.200 --> 0:22:08.080 I never told anybody until earlier this year, not a 0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:12.560 single person, and I honestly never really thought about telling anyone. 0:22:12.600 --> 0:22:15.240 I think there was one one or two times I 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:20.840 thought about telling a female friend, um, basically in light 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:24.360 of them talking about something much less egregious but but 0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:27.040 not not great that had happened to them. And then 0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:31.119 I felt that, um, you know, if you tell someone, 0:22:31.200 --> 0:22:34.919 someone always tells someone. They tell their their boyfriend, they 0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:38.120 tell their roommate, and so then I was just really 0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:42.119 terrified that it was going to get out. UM. So 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:47.119 I never told anyone, even though, um, I think it 0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:50.639 was the next day I was back at the ballpark, 0:22:50.880 --> 0:22:57.639 and um, I a teammate of this players. Uh. I 0:22:57.680 --> 0:23:01.879 could hear and see him like gesture and making saying 0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:04.760 something in conjunction with the other player's name. And I 0:23:04.800 --> 0:23:12.280 was just astonished that like, Okay, this player said clearly 0:23:12.320 --> 0:23:15.439 he didn't say I raped her. I can't imagine they 0:23:16.280 --> 0:23:18.320 had to have said like, oh I hooked up with 0:23:18.359 --> 0:23:22.280 this reporter or something that made me look bad. And 0:23:22.280 --> 0:23:26.120 and I remember I was so like humiliated, like, oh 0:23:26.160 --> 0:23:30.440 my god, is everyone going to not well know this 0:23:30.480 --> 0:23:33.400 other version of it and think this about me? Because 0:23:34.080 --> 0:23:39.280 there's already this um kind of this perception among some 0:23:39.400 --> 0:23:43.640 people that that female reporters are not there to um, 0:23:44.240 --> 0:23:46.600 do a job, but they're there to like pick up 0:23:47.200 --> 0:23:52.320 pick up guys or some crazy thing. It's it's something 0:23:52.359 --> 0:23:55.560 that it's a rumor that people say. UM. And and 0:23:56.119 --> 0:23:59.800 I always will remember that that teammate like he did, 0:24:00.320 --> 0:24:03.840 he continued to do that every time I would see 0:24:03.920 --> 0:24:07.080 him and he would make comments or UM, I would 0:24:07.160 --> 0:24:10.959 overhear him, and I really tried to avoid him as 0:24:11.040 --> 0:24:14.600 much as I could. UM. But that to me was 0:24:14.640 --> 0:24:17.320 a really egregious that he continued to do that for 0:24:17.400 --> 0:24:21.160 years that I was, you know, still covering baseball that's 0:24:21.200 --> 0:24:26.280 just it's just heartbreaking. Um, I am so sorry. Do 0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:30.800 you beat yourself up about trusting, about trusting because and 0:24:30.880 --> 0:24:36.719 I have daughters twenty two and twenty six, and you know, 0:24:37.359 --> 0:24:40.960 younger sister. I think about those you know, young babies, 0:24:41.280 --> 0:24:46.800 their babies, and you know, being so trusting of somebody 0:24:46.840 --> 0:24:51.560 who's when you look back, was meaning to do you hard? Well, 0:24:51.600 --> 0:24:54.280 I mean I do, and yet I also, like, I 0:24:54.320 --> 0:24:58.159 don't want to lose that like ability to trust people 0:24:58.240 --> 0:25:01.040 or to believe the best in people. And I mean 0:25:01.080 --> 0:25:04.639 I will say, like I feel like I have fought 0:25:05.200 --> 0:25:08.600 through personal things, through things happening in the world, you see, 0:25:08.800 --> 0:25:10.760 like just terrible things happening in the world. I have 0:25:10.920 --> 0:25:13.399 like really fought to be like I want to be. 0:25:13.560 --> 0:25:17.040 I would much rather be a glass three quarters full 0:25:17.119 --> 0:25:21.159 person and believe the best of someone and be disappointed. Actually, 0:25:21.200 --> 0:25:23.280 I've run a lot with the Nike Run Club and 0:25:23.280 --> 0:25:26.960 there's this coach, coach Chris Bennett. He I can't remember 0:25:27.000 --> 0:25:30.080 the exact wording, but he said something. I was like, Yes, 0:25:30.280 --> 0:25:33.520 that is how I feel I would. I'm gonna totally 0:25:33.560 --> 0:25:36.080 butcher it, but basically, I would rather think the best 0:25:36.240 --> 0:25:39.359 of people and have them disappoint me than think the 0:25:39.400 --> 0:25:42.440 worst of people and just be disappointed in life. So 0:25:42.760 --> 0:25:47.520 I'm gonna stick with that. But yet sometimes you do 0:25:47.640 --> 0:25:51.960