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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be nothing new here for you, but you

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Speaker 1: can make your own decisions. Welcome to it could happen

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Speaker 1: here a podcast about things falling apart um and and

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Speaker 1: some other stuff from time to time. I'm Robert Evans UM,

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Speaker 1: and today we are going to chat once again with

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Speaker 1: Romeo Kokyatski. UM. Romeo, you are a Ukrainian journalist and

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Speaker 1: an anarchist. We chatted with you right before the Russian

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Speaker 1: expanded invasion of Ukraine, UM, and now we're we're talking

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Speaker 1: with you again now that the war has entered. UM

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Speaker 1: certainly a different phase as as Russia and troops pull

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Speaker 1: out of the north of the country, pull out from

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Speaker 1: around Kiev and focus their remaining on blowed up forces

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Speaker 1: to the fight around the dawn boss. Um, how are

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Speaker 1: you doing, Romeo? Yeah, thanks for having me on UM.

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Speaker 1: It's been it's been tough. We'll get into this a

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Speaker 1: little later on, but obviously learning that um, a town

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Speaker 1: not far from your own as undergone a genocide is

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Speaker 1: not the easiest thing to live through. Yeah, and knowing

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Speaker 1: that that is not even the worst of the atrocities

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Speaker 1: that we're going to discover in the coming weeks and

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Speaker 1: months is is put the put the mental strain. Let

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Speaker 1: me tell you, Yeah, I don't think. I think, thankfully,

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Speaker 1: very few people understand the experience of learning that a

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Speaker 1: genocide has occurred next door essentially, um. And Yeah, what

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Speaker 1: you wanted to talk about specifically, obviously, when when we

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Speaker 1: talk about the actor genocide, we're talking about the mass

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Speaker 1: occur in Buka. Um An exact count Bucha, sorry, an

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Speaker 1: exact death count is not available right now, but I

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Speaker 1: think at least two civilians killed is the last number

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Speaker 1: I've gotten. Yeah, that's the last, like confirmed number. But

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Speaker 1: obviously a lot of these people um have been tossed

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Speaker 1: into mass graves, They're lying around in various residences. It's

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Speaker 1: it's gonna it's gonna be a long time before um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: able to to come to any kind of accurate count

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Speaker 1: of how many residents were killed. Yeah, and for a

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Speaker 1: brief overview of just kind of like what has been

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Speaker 1: seen in the executions there, we have civilians often hands

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Speaker 1: tied behind their backs, so they were clearly restrained, executed

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Speaker 1: after having been restrained. Some of them were just left

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Speaker 1: in the streets, some of them dumped into mass graves. UH.

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Speaker 1: Satellite imagery from before the town was liberated by Ukrainian

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Speaker 1: forces shows corpses lying in the street in the same

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Speaker 1: position they were discovered in when the Ukrainian military moved in,

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Speaker 1: which is as solid open source confirmation of the genocide

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Speaker 1: as you're going to get with any kind of genocide. UM.

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Speaker 1: So that's that's the situation. Obviously, the usual crew of

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Speaker 1: bad actors and UM Russia defenders have kind of slid

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Speaker 1: into the most common allegation I'm seeing at least online

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Speaker 1: as people saying it must have been as Off battalion

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Speaker 1: that did it, even though they're four dred and forty

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Speaker 1: miles away, um encircled by the Russian army. UM. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but you know it's the it's the you're seeing like

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Speaker 1: a lot of kind of bad open source responses to

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Speaker 1: with people being like, well, why would the bodies. If

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Speaker 1: you look at the satellite imagery whire the body so

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Speaker 1: evenly spaced, which is just like they're not. It's it's

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Speaker 1: it's just like people people recognizing that if you like

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Speaker 1: circle ship on a grainy image and and tweet about

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Speaker 1: how it's suspicious, you'll provide enough plausible deniability for other

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Speaker 1: people to to doubt a genocide. You know, it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's the same ship we saw with Syria. There was

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Speaker 1: some disgusting denial where someone was claiming that they could

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Speaker 1: see bodies being carted away um by the Ukrainians for

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Speaker 1: you know, investigation and reburial, um, that the corpses were

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Speaker 1: quote unquote moving. You can see you can see this

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Speaker 1: guy's hand moved. Yeah, you're looking at dead bodies by there.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, when you move dead bodies, they

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Speaker 1: move like pieces of the shock. It's and you're driving

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Speaker 1: over a street that has been churned over by tank

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Speaker 1: treads and you're you're transporting human corpses. Those corpses are

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Speaker 1: gonna get jostled around. Yeah, it's uh, definitely. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to be labor on this

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Speaker 1: too much because I think we've talked a lot about

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Speaker 1: how this this disanfoe works. I think what you came

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Speaker 1: on specifically to talk about and what's really worth getting

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Speaker 1: into in some detail is um, this manifesto that was

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Speaker 1: published on r i A, which is a large Russian

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Speaker 1: government controlled uh news agency. Um, it's this. I don't

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Speaker 1: know how. It's fascist manifest You can find it if

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Speaker 1: you if you just google uh r i A publishes

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Speaker 1: Russian fascist manifesto. The New Voice of Ukraine has a

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Speaker 1: translation of it. Up um if you want to read

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Speaker 1: this thing, but it's it's pretty pretty striking um and UM.

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Speaker 1: The kind of focus of this is on justifying the

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Speaker 1: Denazification campaign. Um. And it opens. One of the opening

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Speaker 1: lines is when the theory that people are good the

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Speaker 1: government is bad no longer holds true. Admitting this fact

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Speaker 1: is the basis of the Denazification party, all of its

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Speaker 1: associated measures, and the fact itself is the subject matter

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Speaker 1: of the policy at This came out out within a

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Speaker 1: day or two of the discovering of the elements of

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Speaker 1: genocide and and um, which is yeah, is pretty predominant.

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Speaker 1: I I would say, like, pretty noteworthy. Yeah. So I

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Speaker 1: had to translate this and let me tell you it

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Speaker 1: took UM a pretty big, pretty big tone in my

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Speaker 1: sanity for a couple of days here. Um, And I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna be honest as Ukrainian reading this, this was If

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Speaker 1: you have ever I don't know if some of your

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Speaker 1: listeners will may have like been at protests UM counter

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Speaker 1: protests against UM fascist or far right demonstrators where they're

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Speaker 1: chanting that they will murder you. This is exactly how

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Speaker 1: I felt. This is this is nothing less than someone

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Speaker 1: reaching through the screen and telling me that they want

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Speaker 1: to kill me and everyone I love personally, UM, because

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Speaker 1: I am, because I want their independence. So there's this

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Speaker 1: the kind of theme of this article. The term that

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Speaker 1: they use most often is de nassification, and I think

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Speaker 1: it really UM, it is incredibly vital to explain just

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Speaker 1: what this denotification means because normally, like you and I, Robert,

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Speaker 1: I think we both call ourselves anti fascists and we

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Speaker 1: are pretty anti Nazi. Um that I think that's a

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Speaker 1: that's a pretty mainstream position to do not like Nazis

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Speaker 1: and be anti Nazi. So the Russians used this term

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Speaker 1: denotification to someone that has no context, no idea of

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Speaker 1: what it refers to. Beyond the obvious meaning. Get rid

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Speaker 1: of Nazis sounds like something even laudable. The problem is

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Speaker 1: what the Russians mean by Nazis is not what you

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Speaker 1: and I, or any other normal stay in rational human

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Speaker 1: being would consider a Nazi. This article does not justify

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Speaker 1: uh it's it's thesis that Ukrainians are Nazis at all.

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Speaker 1: In fact, um there are. There is a whole series

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Speaker 1: of paragraphs um that states that Ukraine does not meet

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Speaker 1: like any criteria of being Nazi. UM too. To quote

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Speaker 1: a bit from this um, as horrible as it is,

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Speaker 1: um it reads, there isn't, after all, a single important

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Speaker 1: Nazi party, no fewer, no fully racist laws, only their

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Speaker 1: curl tailed variants in the form of oppressions against the

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Speaker 1: mere language. As a result, there is no opposition in

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Speaker 1: resistance to the regime. A particular feature of Nazified Ukraine

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Speaker 1: is it's a morphosis eminent and ambivalentness, which allows for

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Speaker 1: the masking of Nazism as a desire to move towards

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Speaker 1: a quote unquote independent and quote unquote European, uh Western

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Speaker 1: and pro American path of development, in reality towards degradation,

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Speaker 1: while insisting that quote unquote Ukraine doesn't have any Nazism,

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Speaker 1: only private and singular excesses. So the like itself, it's

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Speaker 1: that Ukraine is not Nazi in any way that we

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Speaker 1: would recognize the term. Yeah, and it's it's basically saying

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Speaker 1: that like it's Nazi, it's not. There's no fewer and

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Speaker 1: there's no race like racialist laws. Um. But the thing

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Speaker 1: that makes it a Nazi is want and closer union

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Speaker 1: with Europe as opposed to Russia. Um. And of course

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Speaker 1: it it notes like the so called laws against the

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Speaker 1: Russian language, which I'm not aware of anything happening. I

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Speaker 1: think what they're referring to is like attempts to encourage

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Speaker 1: the Ukrainian language in Ukraine. Yea, there are no laws

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Speaker 1: or sanctions the Russian language in Ukraine. There never have been.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, when I was there, one of the

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Speaker 1: difficulties I had with my interpreter is he he only

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Speaker 1: spoke Ukrainian. And so you can, obviously you can speak

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Speaker 1: with people who speak Russian if you speak Ukrainian, but

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Speaker 1: it's a little bit like confusing, and most people we

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Speaker 1: were talking to spoke Shian natively. Like it's the the

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Speaker 1: idea that it's somehow like been that the Russian language

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Speaker 1: has been somehow like attacked in the Ukraine. UM feels

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Speaker 1: very silly as someone who like repeatedly encountered the Russian

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Speaker 1: language while in Ukraine. Yeah, it's it's it's simply propaganda. Um.

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Speaker 1: And the fact is that the Russians define Ukrainian Nazism

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Speaker 1: not as having Nazi values or a Nazi party or

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Speaker 1: anything that we would associate with Nazism, but in fact

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Speaker 1: simply the simply that Ukraine wants to be independent of Russia.

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Speaker 1: That in itself is proof positive to the Russians of

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Speaker 1: our Nazism and nothing else. So when when people hear

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Speaker 1: this word denotification, what they don't mean getting rid of

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Speaker 1: like far right elements in Ukraine. No, they mean being

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Speaker 1: anti Russian or being were simply wanting to be separate

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Speaker 1: from Russia. Is itself a far right position in Russia's eyes,

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Speaker 1: and that is enough to call for our, um pretty

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Speaker 1: much complete extermination. Yeah. And you know, to kind of

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Speaker 1: go into this article a little more, one of the

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Speaker 1: things that I find interesting about it is this line here.

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Speaker 1: The fact that the Ukrainian electorate shows Poroshenko's piece Porschenko

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Speaker 1: is the president before Zelinski, and Zelinski's piece should not

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Speaker 1: be misled. Um, I think they probably meant misread. Maybe

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Speaker 1: Ukrainians are quite satisfied with the shortest path to piece

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Speaker 1: through blitzkrieg, which the last two Ukrainian presidents transparently hinted

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Speaker 1: at when they were elected. I how I don't understand

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Speaker 1: how anything Ukraine has done could be considered a blitzkrieg.

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Speaker 1: Um since they never invaded Russian territory and in fact

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Speaker 1: lost territory to Russia in two thousand fourteen. Um, that's

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Speaker 1: a weird definition of a blitzkrieg. I'm wondering if you

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Speaker 1: can shed some light on what they might even in

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Speaker 1: on that, or is it just just complete fallacy. What

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Speaker 1: they mean is basically that Ukraine in so within Russian

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Speaker 1: probably and you have to understand, we're talking about a

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Speaker 1: completely separate universe, a different reality. So the way every

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Speaker 1: every single aspect of what you and I know does

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Speaker 1: does not apply, Like they don't live in our consensus whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: So what they mean is that Ukraine blitz creaged the

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Speaker 1: elimination of Russian speakers and um, pro Russian culture and

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Speaker 1: pro Russian sentiments in Ukraine during the year of my

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Speaker 1: don Um in Russia's In Russia's reality, Ukraine carried out

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Speaker 1: a genocide against these people in Ukraine, in everywhere except

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Speaker 1: the puppet authorities of the Luhanskan Danetsk People's Republics. So basically,

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Speaker 1: Ukraine carried out this books creed. The reason Ukraine is

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Speaker 1: so quote unquote Nazified is because in the this Russian

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Speaker 1: alternative reality, UH, Ukraine genocide and all of the Russians,

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Speaker 1: all the ethnic Russians, the writing speakers, and even with

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Speaker 1: pro Russian sentiments. And this is what they mean when

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Speaker 1: they refer to this UH, this blitz creed that they

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Speaker 1: that well um Ukraine went through they quickly killed everyone

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Speaker 1: who was pro Us and now UH and now everyone else,

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Speaker 1: everyone who has left is a Nazi um like the

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Speaker 1: The latter part of this paragraph really makes that clear.

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Speaker 1: They say it was this method of quote unquote appeasement

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Speaker 1: of internal anti fascists through total terror that was used

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Speaker 1: in Odessa, hark evening for tost Mariable and other Russian cities.

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Speaker 1: So not only are are these Ukrainian cities Russian, this

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Speaker 1: quote unquote appeasement that they're referring to is a sarcastic

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Speaker 1: way of referring to their um supposed genocide of these people,

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Speaker 1: of of Russian speakers, of um ethnic Russians and Ukraine. Again,

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Speaker 1: that is not only untrue, it's also ludicrous because everyone

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Speaker 1: in Ukraine is has some Russian ancestry, because it's a

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Speaker 1: mixed country. Everyone is everything, Like the entire Eastern European

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Speaker 1: region is not some ethnic enclave. It is in fact

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Speaker 1: a melting pot um which so Union worked very hard

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Speaker 1: to change. One of the things I kept encountering in

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Speaker 1: f Difka, which was is still under fire today and

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Speaker 1: was under fire in two thousand fourteen, for an idea

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Speaker 1: of like how long chunks of the country have been

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Speaker 1: in Like now it's spread all over Ukraine, but parts

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Speaker 1: of Ukraine have been under continuous artillery fire for nearly

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Speaker 1: a decade. Um. But I kept encountering these old ladies

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Speaker 1: who had grown up in the Soviet Union, and we're saying, like, um,

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Speaker 1: I don't understand why they're doing this. They they like,

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Speaker 1: I've always considered myself Russian and and now this is happening,

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Speaker 1: like I don't understand it. I don't understand it. It It

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Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense. And in terms of like the

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Speaker 1: denialism that we've been seeing lately. UM. One of the

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Speaker 1: reasons I argued for because we had a debate in

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Speaker 1: the UM in the editor's room at Envy when we

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Speaker 1: were UM, when we were looking at this piece, we

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Speaker 1: had a debate over where whether we're going to translate

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Speaker 1: end UM publish it. And I pushed really hard UM

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Speaker 1: to do so because I think there is no greater

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Speaker 1: way to push back these UM claims of genocide denial

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Speaker 1: that we we are seeing popping up UM across various

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Speaker 1: parts of UM of the Western laughter and the anti

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Speaker 1: imperialist left or whatever you call it UM. And I

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Speaker 1: think there's no better way to push back against the

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Speaker 1: arguments than to present the Russians own words to them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like this is such an openly genocidal fascist piece UM

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Speaker 1: using PU the pure logic of of quite like of

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Speaker 1: just fascism. That is impossible I think to really UM

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Speaker 1: say that this is like a fabrication or the like

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Speaker 1: the Russians aren't like this, Well, they're telling you in

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Speaker 1: their own words, this is what they're like. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: I think the like putting focus on this isn't this

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Speaker 1: wasn't written by you know, some um like far right

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Speaker 1: extremists for some minor like online site that has like

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Speaker 1: an audience of two thousand, like Russian Fascist whatever. Now,

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Speaker 1: this was a major article published in one of the

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Speaker 1: Russian main media outlets by a respected political scientist within Russia. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's that's the thing that I think really needs

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Speaker 1: to be gotten across is the degree to which I

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Speaker 1: think there's a desire to believe that the Putin regime

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Speaker 1: is like on its last legs, and that most people

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Speaker 1: recognize how fucked up the political status quo is there,

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Speaker 1: and that support for the regime is like pretty minimal

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Speaker 1: as a result. Um. And I I'm not I'm not

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Speaker 1: seeing the evidence of that. And when I talked to

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Speaker 1: I just we just did an interview with the Russian

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Speaker 1: anarchist who his attitude was very much that like, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: most people broadly by the propaganda. Um, it is not

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Speaker 1: like the it's possible that's going to change over time,

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Speaker 1: because again, the severe casualties Russia has taken have not

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Speaker 1: really had a chance to totally filter out socially into Russia.

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Speaker 1: I think people are still becoming aware of the scale

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Speaker 1: of losses, and it's going to take some time for

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Speaker 1: that knowledge to to release circulate. UM. But I think

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Speaker 1: this article represents how a very large chunk of the

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Speaker 1: Russian populace are are seeing what's going on in Ukraine. UM.

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Speaker 1: And that's problematic for a number of reasons. For one thing,

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Speaker 1: with this kind of logic that we see in this article,

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Speaker 1: there's not much you can't justify, right, Like, there's very

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Speaker 1: little that uh if you if people believe what's being

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Speaker 1: said in this article, there's very little you couldn't do.

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Speaker 1: There's very few weapons you couldn't deploy, right. That's one

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Speaker 1: of the arguments this is making is that you have

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Speaker 1: to exact soldiers who have been notified, um have to

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Speaker 1: be wiped out completely. Um. There's there's no soldiers who

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Speaker 1: have been notified. Anyone who has ever taken arms against Russia,

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Speaker 1: and anyone who has ever supported anyone who has taken

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Speaker 1: arms against Russia, which at the current moment is over

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Speaker 1: of the Ukrainian population must and I quote from this

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Speaker 1: must be liquidated. Yeah, not not um. It makes an

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Speaker 1: argument a little higher up that these people can't be

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Speaker 1: re educated, so they can't even be sent to camps.

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Speaker 1: Two goologs. UM. They can't be made to do forced labor.

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Speaker 1: They must be liquidated, eliminated. Uh. And this is nothing

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Speaker 1: less than simply saying, well, we are going to have

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Speaker 1: to kill the grand majority of Ukrainians. Yeah, And I

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Speaker 1: don't I don't know what more like you can for

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Speaker 1: the folks who are kind of on the because there's

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Speaker 1: there's this tendency I think within the chunks of the

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Speaker 1: left that are not they haven't lost their minds, they're not.

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Speaker 1: They don't buy the Russian propaganda. They do see what's

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Speaker 1: happening in Ukraine is terrible, they see the war is terrible,

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Speaker 1: but they still have this attitude of well, the best

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Speaker 1: thing is to end it quickly, and like, you know,

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Speaker 1: we should, we should push for some sort of negotiation.

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Speaker 1: And first off, I'm saying, like, whatever the Ukraine as

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Speaker 1: a country decides is acceptable to them in terms of peace.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to argue against one way or the

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Speaker 1: other because that's not my place. But um, I don't

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Speaker 1: I don't see how you can negotiate with people who

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Speaker 1: have this attitude towards you, um and and towards the

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Speaker 1: existence of your people. Like I really don't see long

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Speaker 1: term where there's kind of an option for peace for

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Speaker 1: Ukraine with this kind of rhetoric existing in Russia outside

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Speaker 1: of smashing the Russian military to the greatest extent possible. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean I feel the same way, and that is

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Speaker 1: very terrifying thoughts. It's not crazy, like, yeah, because my

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Speaker 1: general attitude towards wars is that it's best when they're over. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: exactly right. I have no I have no strong desire

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Speaker 1: to see to like bomb Russian cities. Well, I mean, okay,

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Speaker 1: that's that's that's a little bit of lie. But no one,

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Speaker 1: no one, no one can blame someone living in Ukraine

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Speaker 1: right now for feeling a bit of a desire for

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Speaker 1: for vengeance, even though I don't think that's particularly likely

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Speaker 1: to help matters. Yeah, probably not. And I generally don't

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Speaker 1: want to, um see like a world war in Europe

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Speaker 1: or anything like that. But I I really when I

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Speaker 1: rack my brains of what can be done, like how

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Speaker 1: you can live with like the these people aren't you know,

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Speaker 1: thousands of climbers away or on the other side of

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Speaker 1: the continent. They're literally the neighboring state. Um And I

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Speaker 1: I just I don't have any answers of how Ukraine

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Speaker 1: is supposed to move forward while Russia remains in its

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Speaker 1: current configuration. Like, I don't see a future, um, a

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Speaker 1: coexistence of any kind that's possible when they are literal

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Speaker 1: calling for our extermination. I I think that's also kind

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Speaker 1: of the question of how do we have There's this

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Speaker 1: this phrase that you heard a lot, particularly kind of

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Speaker 1: in the in the post World War two period of

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Speaker 1: like the need for rules based international order, and the

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Speaker 1: United States was as much apart as anyone of making

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Speaker 1: sure that that was never anything more than a than

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Speaker 1: a friendly lie. Right. You had a couple of brief

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Speaker 1: moments here and there where it was attempted to be imposed,

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Speaker 1: um Yugoslavia or well, you know, Bosnia being kind of

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Speaker 1: a clear example, but it was always you know, in

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Speaker 1: between a bunch of illegal wars on behalf of a

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Speaker 1: bunch of different states, and illegal fundings of of insurgent

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Speaker 1: groups and all sorts of sketchy stuff and kind of culminated.

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Speaker 1: And I think you can we keep going back to Syria,

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Speaker 1: which is an important part of like what allowed what's

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Speaker 1: happening in Ukraine to happen. But the invasion of Iraq

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Speaker 1: by the United States was another one. Right, this idea

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Speaker 1: that like and and the things that like torture and

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Speaker 1: stuff by US force. Is this this the fact? I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's what the Russian diplomats. Yeah, that's what Russian diplomats

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Speaker 1: always bring up in UM, in the U N and

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Speaker 1: in other like international bodies. Whenever they're pressed on this

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Speaker 1: question human rights, they always invariably pointed the US and say, well,

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Speaker 1: the US did this, this, and this and the rock. Um,

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Speaker 1: how come the US gets to do whatever it wants

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Speaker 1: with no pushback? And the implication being that Russia also

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Speaker 1: believes it should be able to do whatever it wants

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Speaker 1: with no pushback. And obviously like the fact that the

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Speaker 1: United States committed war crimes does not mean that Russia

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Speaker 1: should get to commit war crimes. But from like a

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Speaker 1: point of view of like, if we're looking at things

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Speaker 1: from an international perspective, Yeah, if the United States is

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Speaker 1: going to do ship like that, well other countries are

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Speaker 1: going to do ship like that and see it as

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Speaker 1: like well there there isn't like why why are we

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Speaker 1: bound by an international order but not you and I.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that's so frightening about the kind

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Speaker 1: of rhetoric coming out of Russia. Is that it it

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Speaker 1: shows those kind of dreams that people had in the

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Speaker 1: wake of World War Two, which again there was no

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Speaker 1: like Golden Age after World War Two. The United States

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Speaker 1: went right to regime change in Africa and Latin America,

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Speaker 1: all sorts of fucked up ship. But it shows that,

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Speaker 1: like any kind of international hope of something like that

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00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 1: ever existing has has fallen apart. We are we are

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Speaker 1: if people want something like that. And I do believe

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Speaker 1: that some sort of rules based international order, and I'm

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Speaker 1: not talking about like you and global government. I'm talking

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Speaker 1: about broad ranging international agreements that for example, you don't

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Speaker 1: get to fire chemical weapons at civilians, you know, Like, um,

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Speaker 1: I think that would be nice, a nice thing to exist.

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Speaker 1: And I think part of what we're seeing here is

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Speaker 1: that any chance of having that has kind of been

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Speaker 1: reset to zero. Um. Not that it was ever a reality,

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Speaker 1: but I think the kind of I think the rhetoric

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Speaker 1: around the fact that ever existed has completely dissolved now. Um.

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Speaker 1: And maybe that's not like particularly bad, because it's bad

395
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Speaker 1: for people to believe something exists when it doesn't, because

396
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Speaker 1: that that international order never did really exist, But um,

397
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: I I think what we're seeing here is kind of

398
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Speaker 1: the final collapse of any belief that, uh, there's an

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Speaker 1: inner there are international standards of morality and behavior for states. Yeah, absolutely,

400
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Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of reasons why UM. Ukraine's

401
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 1: president Lanski gets a lot of props from from a

402
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 1: lot of people right now. But one of the things

403
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 1: that has absolutely I personally rate as absolutely as the

404
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: kids say based in recent days was the Lensky's addressed

405
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,120
Speaker 1: um in from the u N where he called basically cowards.

406
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Speaker 1: If they don't kick Russia out and they can't even

407
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Speaker 1: enforce their main um, their main goal, which is peace, um,

408
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 1: then they should dissolve. And honestly, I don't see any

409
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Speaker 1: any issues with that argument. That seemed yeah, completely rational.

410
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Speaker 1: What what is the point of this organization if it

411
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 1: cannot even do something as simple or not simple, but

412
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Speaker 1: if it cannot do something as straightforward as punish the

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Speaker 1: perpetrators of John side, Yeah, what what exactly is the

414
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Speaker 1: point of it? That's exactly kind of where I am,

415
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: which is like, why are we like right now we

416
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Speaker 1: have this issue where like after Russian evidence of Russian

417
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Speaker 1: genocide was uncovered, Russia is set to the the un

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Speaker 1: the Human rights uh what you call it? Um that

419
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,679
Speaker 1: they are, Yeah, herman rights canceled that they're a permanent

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00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: member of and like like basically filed a complaint against

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Speaker 1: Ukraine for doing the genocide that they did. Um. And uh,

422
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: you know there's talk about what we could dissolve and

423
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: reform the Council without Russia, we could kick it. Like

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00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: there's there's options, I guess in a parliamentary sense, but

425
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: broadly speaking, when one of the people sitting on that

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00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,919
Speaker 1: council has is in the process of carrying out a

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Speaker 1: genocide which they are justifying in this way through their

428
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: through their media organs, what is the fucking point of

429
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,640
Speaker 1: having that? It's just like it was like the night

430
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 1: of the invasion, I sat and I watched everything happening

431
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 1: in the U n UM and my my thought the

432
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:40,360
Speaker 1: whole time, as like every all of these international representatives

433
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 1: were like, you can't do this, right, you have to stop,

434
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 1: you have to stop like try like begging for there

435
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: to be some sort of peace in Russia. Just going

436
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: ahead and doing it. It was like you know what

437
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,199
Speaker 1: we what we saw, UM it not dissimilar to some

438
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: of the ship that happened and then lead it to

439
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: the Iraq War, where it was like, okay, well a

440
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: lot of people agree this is fucked up. I guess

441
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean anything. Um, And it didn't mean anything. Uh,

442
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: and uh that's why have it? Like why why pretend

443
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: that it means anything? UM? I guess that's where I am.

444
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's the same um to draw parallel

445
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: to to US politics. It's it's the same as UM.

446
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: Like the Democratic Party during the Trump era saying, oh,

447
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: Mr President, you can't do all of these obviously legal

448
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 1: things you're doing. That's bad. You should stop. Like here's

449
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 1: here investigations that prove that you're doing the bad things.

450
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: Please stop, Mr President, with all violated the moluments clause, okay, Like, okay,

451
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 1: are you gonna enforce it? Are enforce any of this?

452
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: Like without enforcement, all of this condemnation is literally just noise.

453
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: It doesn't react. It doesn't result in anything in the

454
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: material world that will have an effect in curtailing or

455
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: risk ree this behavior now or in the future. And

456
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: if you cannot do that, then what I like to

457
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 1: call it, what you have the job program for yuppies? Yeah? Yes,

458
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 1: in international rules based order, I when I was in

459
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: Iraq during the war against Ices and hanging out primarily

460
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: with not just Kurds, but like Kurds who were natives

461
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: of mosle Um when we were kind of back in

462
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: her bill away from the front. The number one organization,

463
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: the number one group that they complained about, was not

464
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: the United States, nor was said isis. It was the

465
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 1: United Nations, who were generally viewed to be a bunch

466
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: of you like, they saw them the way like people

467
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: see like trust fund kids. They were a bunch of

468
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 1: rich assholes tooling around in land rovers, staying in nice

469
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 1: hotels and burning money on fucking bullshit. Um. And and

470
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: that's I don't know. It's so the idea of the

471
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: United Nations as what it was supposed to be, which

472
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: is like, yeah, we should things like what the Nazis

473
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,719
Speaker 1: did shouldn't be allowed to get nearly as far as

474
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: they did. And perhaps if all of the Nations were

475
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: sitting together and saying, well, that's bad, right, we don't

476
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: want people doing that, um, maybe some of these bad

477
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: things would stop happening. Um. And what it has turned

478
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 1: into is, yeah, it's a jobs program for fucking yuppies.

479
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: It's it's not that there aren't individual things within the

480
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: U N I've certainly been to a lot of places,

481
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 1: particularly refugee camps, that had infrastructure because of u n

482
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: h c R, even though that's a very flawed organization. UM.

483
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: I can't deny that a lot of people got access

484
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: to basic survival gear that was necessary because of u

485
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: n h c R UM United Nations Humanitarian Crisis Relief UM.

486
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: But overall it's just it's nothing, you know, there was

487
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: There's a really I think my favorite piece of graffiti

488
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: ever UM, which was spotted in UM Sarajevo during the

489
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: Serbian encirclement and and shelley of that city. UM. And

490
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: it's uh spray painting of you in in the style

491
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: of the UN's logo, and then underneath it United Nothing UM.

492
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: And And that was the attitude of a lot of

493
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: people in the city as they like watched the UN

494
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: bicker over what was to be done about the fact

495
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: that an army had surrounded a city full of civilians

496
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: and was pounding the high rise apartment buildings with artillery

497
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: and tank cannons all day long. Man, that sure sounds

498
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: real familiar. It's a good thing that never happened again.

499
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: I don't know what that sounds, um, but I mean, yeah,

500
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: it's it's anyway, Um, Romeo said anything else you wanted

501
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: to get through today as we stare at this thing,

502
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: this bad thing. Honestly, I just as much as normally

503
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 1: I would encourage people to not pollute their brains with

504
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: with thatcher stage prop in this case, I would recommend

505
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: people read through um my translation at the New Voice.

506
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: If you don't trust me for whatever reason, you can

507
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: pull up the original and Google translated, machine translate it yourself.

508
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: It'll be a serviceable translation, and just read it for yourself. Um.

509
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: Because I want to make it very clear that Russia

510
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: is no longer simply like some hyper capitalist, kleptocratic oligarch state.

511
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: It is literally fascist. It is using fascist rhetoric and

512
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: fascist techniques to eliminate an ethnic group it considers to

513
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 1: be inferior to its own um in order to take

514
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: its land and resources for itself. It is. There is

515
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: no greater distillation of fascism on this planet right now

516
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 1: than the Russian Federation. Yeah, they're doing and I really

517
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: would like people to understand, especially if you consider yourself

518
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: anti imperialist or anti fascist or anything. The Russian Federation

519
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: is a fascist government, um, on the level of Nazi Germany.

520
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: And it is attempting to uh to literally this article

521
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: is called is called what shall we do with the Ukrainians? Yeah, Um,

522
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: the Ukrainian the Ukrainian question, you know. UM. And this

523
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 1: article is proposing a solution to the Ukrainian question. So

524
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: again UM. Mostly that's what I would like to leave

525
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: your listeners, Robert with an understanding. UM. And again you

526
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: don't have to trust me, you can go and read

527
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: this for yourself. UM. That the the greatest fascist threat

528
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 1: on this planet right now is not the United States

529
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: of America, as shocking as that may sound, UM, and

530
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: as hard as that maybe to buy, it is the

531
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: Russian Federation, and it is right now trying to genocide

532
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 1: the country and the people that I belong to. Yeah. UM,

533
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: So I don't know, Maybe make a note of that, folks,

534
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:20,800
Speaker 1: put that in here in your mental rolodex. Um. It's uh,

535
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: I don't know. I I I hope you continue to

536
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: stay safe. I'm glad your area of Ukraine is at

537
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 1: least less under under the gun than it was earlier

538
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 1: in this war. UM. I'm glad broadly speaking that the

539
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: Russian Federation has bitten off a hell of a lot

540
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: more than they were able to chew um, and now

541
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: are doing their chewing without nearly as many teeth. Um

542
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 1: And yeah, I hope that process continues, and I hope

543
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,879
Speaker 1: the siege of Mariopol is lifted. Yeah, thanks a lot.

544
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 1: I really appreciate um letting letting me make an appearance,

545
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: and um going through this with me, and uh yeah,

546
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: I think we share the same hopes here. Yeah, all right, everybody,

547
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:31,799
Speaker 1: that's the episode. Go go away. That's a horrible way

548
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: to begin. It could happen here. That's how we start

549
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 1: a podcast. I'm Robert Evans podcast, Things falling apart, put

550
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: them back together, all that good stuff. Co hosts here

551
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 1: today Garrison Davis, our our our buddy, Chris and of

552
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 1: course the great Saint Andrew Andrews. Take it away. Good morning,

553
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 1: and in case I don't see you, good afternoon, good evening,

554
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 1: and good night. Speaking of the Truman Show, solid reference,

555
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: well done, Thank you. I wanted to spend today's episode

556
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: discussing a concept that has been brought up in the

557
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 1: work of James C. Scott and Christopher Ryan. That's the

558
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 1: idea of human domestication, and before people start clicking off,

559
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: I'm not going to go out and prim or anything,

560
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: you know, It's just I think it's an interesting thing

561
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 1: to think about. I think that Scott explores it in

562
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: a very interesting way in chapter two of Against the

563
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: Green and so relating as I guess to the Truman

564
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 1: Show because something, why did I bring it up? Truman

565
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 1: lives in a suburban picket fans American dream dome ove,

566
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 1: a world that's meant to keep him, you know, contined

567
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: and content and ignorant about the fact that he's on

568
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,479
Speaker 1: a TV show. Truman has trapped in this wound that

569
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,760
Speaker 1: he kind of conformed too, but he kind of escape

570
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 1: at least initially, and so you could tell that, you know,

571
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 1: there's something wrong, and he probably felt that way for

572
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 1: a long time. It's only over the course of the

573
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 1: movie that he develops a sufficient awareness of his condition

574
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 1: to leave home and become a true man, Thank you

575
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: very much. Alright, alright, good episode. Um, and humans like

576
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: Truman have been stewards and cultivators of the natural environment

577
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 1: for a long time, right, one of the only creatures

578
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 1: who do that. By the way, I see other people

579
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: who see who kind of like adopt this assumption that

580
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 1: he wants just like imposing our will on the environment

581
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 1: that is otherwise unscathed by our presence and all that.

582
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 1: And I mean, yeah, we do a lot of very

583
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: very terrible stuff the environment, but a lot of our

584
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,280
Speaker 1: actions are also beneficial. And we have the only creatures

585
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 1: to shape and sometimes harm and sometimes benefit the natural environment.

586
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 1: I mean beavers, elephants, prairie dogs, bees, and to mine,

587
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 1: not to mention the networks of trees and other plants

588
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:19,320
Speaker 1: that all manipulate the environments to soothe them and there

589
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:24,320
Speaker 1: comfort and their survival. You know, but there's no nature

590
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: as we know it, as we see it um that

591
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: sort of untouched wild idea without the activities of humans.

592
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: You know, humans when planting seeds and tubers, shaping the

593
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 1: evolution of many plants species, burning and desirable flora, weeding,

594
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 1: our competition, pruning, thinning, trimming, transplanting, mulching, relocating, bark, ringing, compassing,

595
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 1: watering and frutilizing. And for animals, you know, we have

596
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 1: hunted even selectively, you know, spared females or reproductive age,

597
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 1: or hunted based on life cycles or fish selectively managed

598
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: streams to promote spawning and shellfish beds, you know, transplanted

599
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 1: the eggs and young of birds and fish, and even

600
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 1: raised juveniles in some cases. That's kind of how we

601
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 1: ended up domesticating a lot of animals. And I'm gonna

602
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 1: get into that. So through fire, through plow, through hunting,

603
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: through a whole array of different activities, humans have domesticated

604
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 1: whole environments, you know, well before you know the full

605
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 1: the full society is based on, you know, fully domesticated

606
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: wheat and barley and goats and sheep. The spectrum of

607
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 1: subsistence moods that we have utilized, whether we're hunting, foraging, pastoralism,

608
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:47,239
Speaker 1: or farming, have existed and complemented each other, you know,

609
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: sort of harmony millennia and I mean those of you

610
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 1: who have read Don't Have Everything. You kind of see

611
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:57,799
Speaker 1: that picture coming into shape as it progressed through the book.

612
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 1: But of course James C. Scott also discussed it years

613
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 1: before in Against the Green so as he says, Enter

614
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 1: the Domas, just as we transformed our landscapes, we transformed ourselves.

615
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 1: The Domas was a unique and unprecedented concentration of tilled fields,

616
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 1: seed and green stores, people and domestigated animals and hangers

617
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: on like mice and rats and covids, all co evolving

618
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 1: with consequences no one could have possibly foreseen. You know,

619
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 1: dogs and pigs and cats, all of them. Their entire

620
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 1: evolution was shaped by their relation to this dom and

621
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: humans are not the exception. Of course, there's some animals

622
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 1: that easier to domesticate than others, which is why you

623
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: don't see people commonly riding or hooding zebras and gazelle um.

624
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 1: They will make the best cattle or ride um and

625
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:02,359
Speaker 1: probably knock your brains out if you tried, So it's

626
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 1: probably best to stick to the ones that we have

627
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 1: sort of who evolved with, like you know, llamas and

628
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: goats and sheep and pigs and over generations, you see

629
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 1: the domesticated creatures, unlike their wild counterparts, develop a level

630
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: of submissiveness and a decreased awareness of their surroundings. Right,

631
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 1: So that emotional dampening is basically a condition of life

632
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 1: because when you're in that domas, you know, you're on

633
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 1: the human supervision that instant reaction to predator and you know,

634
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 1: pray they no longer the most powerful pressures because you're

635
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 1: in this sort of cultivated environment, your physical protection and

636
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 1: nutrition is more secure than it would be in a

637
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 1: more wild environment. So domesticated animal is less allude to

638
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: its surroundings, less away of its surroundings than its cousins

639
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 1: in the wild. UM and we could see as well,

640
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 1: you know, with human sidentism, there's also been you know,

641
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: a reduction mobility UM and and of course at consequences

642
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 1: for health. To be very honest with you, I was

643
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: actually kind of consumed about covering this and I was

644
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 1: trying to figure out a way to cover this UM

645
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 1: in a way that doesn't make me look like I'm

646
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: trying to like retire into the deeps of Amazonia or something. Yeah,

647
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: but I just I find it interesting to think about

648
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 1: her environments shape us. Yeah, absolutely, I mean you can

649
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: think about these things without becoming a hermit and hiding

650
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 1: in the woods. As as as attractive as an idea

651
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,919
Speaker 1: as that may, well, yeah for sure, for sure. I mean,

652
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 1: like I have this like kind of conn in my head,

653
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 1: you know, like the whole idea of multi verses. I

654
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: figured somewhere in the multiverses a version of myself we

655
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: have retired into the forest and gone through this whole

656
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: kind of like anime training arc and emerged as this

657
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: like one punchman beast of a human. I would I would.

658
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 1: I would also like to be that typeline. I think

659
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 1: that would be very interesting. Like a train so hard

660
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:23,760
Speaker 1: that all my hair falls out. Able to snap trees

661
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:29,800
Speaker 1: with just a breath is like, yeah, the the the

662
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: the quintessential wild man. That's yeah. I mean, I'm sure

663
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 1: there's also multiverse version of me where I'm president or something.

664
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 1: It would be pretty interesting to see, Like I should

665
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 1: be kind of cool. I just had an idea of

666
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 1: like this, um this team of versions of oneself that

667
00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:00,040
Speaker 1: team up to like fight the evil versions of the

668
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,919
Speaker 1: cells across the multi Boose. It's kind of like kind

669
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: of the Conqueror, except I think in most fusions of

670
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 1: the multi Boose, he is evil. Yes, I have, I've definitely,

671
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: I've definitely read that comic before, of the Good Ones

672
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,879
Speaker 1: Fight the Bad Ones. I mean, the Injustice comics video

673
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 1: games are pretty pretty pretty big, pretty big staples of

674
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 1: that genre. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course an Injustice

675
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: it's different characters, whereas it will be interesting to see

676
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 1: like a cast that's all just one person, just like

677
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: the same dude. The exact same pluson, but they all

678
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 1: grew up in such different environments. Even though they share

679
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 1: the exact same DNA, they're like different people. It could

680
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 1: be an interesting commentary on society because we do live

681
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: in one, after all, we do live in a society

682
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 1: for better for worse. Yeah. But anyway, like I'm saying,

683
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 1: you know, environments shape us. We shape environments, and to me,

684
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: we need to start shaping our environments again, so we

685
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 1: could either shape up or chip out of existence as

686
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 1: a species, right, um, you know, because the way the

687
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 1: trajectory were on is not sustainable. Um. So we can

688
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: see of course, in this transition to the domas um,

689
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: the sedentary, green growing sort of community that you know,

690
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 1: in archaeological studies of the bones of the inhabitants, you

691
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 1: could see like repetitive stress injuries shaping their bodies, you know,

692
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 1: like the skeletal signatures of like grinding grain and you know,

693
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:47,359
Speaker 1: like ah, cutting and sewing and kneeling and bending and

694
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 1: moving in you know, very repetitive ways, you know. And

695
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:55,919
Speaker 1: of course with these concentrations of people we also see

696
00:45:56,000 --> 00:46:00,080
Speaker 1: like epidemics and stuff and parasites starting to fester, not

697
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 1: just within humans, or just not just within species, but

698
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 1: also like cross species pathogens and stuff. Yeah, you know,

699
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 1: and so as we all on this kind of same arc,

700
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 1: sharing this micro environment, sharing out germs and parasites, you

701
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 1: end ups getting more and more brutal versions of like

702
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 1: wild diseases, you know, because they basically go through the

703
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: the iron gauntlet of you know, like that the disease

704
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: thunder doom. We're only one could come out as victorious,

705
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 1: and so they battled out and became these more refined

706
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: and more severe forms, which is why you see in

707
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 1: Europe where they had this high population densities, say, the

708
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 1: diseases that developed there when they were introduced to the

709
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:49,320
Speaker 1: coote and quote New World. You know, the really ravaged

710
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 1: population that didn't really live on that level of density.

711
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,439
Speaker 1: Not to say they didn't have cities, because they did

712
00:46:55,680 --> 00:47:00,720
Speaker 1: their cities and villages and collaborations and such as people

713
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 1: spanning across like large areas, but it wasn't organized in

714
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 1: quite the same way. It wasn't generalizing quite fairly. But

715
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:18,799
Speaker 1: you know, it's two whole continents. Um. We also see

716
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 1: that like nutritional stress starts to develop in the bones

717
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 1: and teeth of um more quote domiciled humans um. You see,

718
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 1: like I and deficiency anemia in people whose diets were

719
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:41,439
Speaker 1: consisting increasingly of grains, and you know, as I said

720
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:44,719
Speaker 1: told you know, their diets became narrower, you know, less

721
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 1: variety UM in both plants and proteins. And so that

722
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 1: ended up leading to you know, like declining tooth size

723
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:02,759
Speaker 1: and reduction in statue and skeletal austiness. And of course

724
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 1: this change and like our physiology and dimorphism as a

725
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 1: history such as like a lot food the fact in

726
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: justest in Neolithic but sidentis um and crowding definitely left

727
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 1: an immediate and legible mark on the archaeological record. I

728
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 1: do find it interesting. Um. I read this book I

729
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 1: think last year called Botany of Desire, and in it

730
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:39,240
Speaker 1: the guy um what's his name, And in it Michael

731
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:43,720
Speaker 1: Poland talks about all the plans we thought we were domestigating.

732
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: Domesticated us too, you know, because if you think about it,

733
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:50,840
Speaker 1: you know, you up in the garden on your hands

734
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 1: and knees, day after day, sun and rain, reading and

735
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 1: fertilizing and untangling and protecting and reshaping an environment. Justice

736
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:04,240
Speaker 1: suits you little to me to plants, you'll potato plant,

737
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:09,800
Speaker 1: and I mean the plant kind of hasn't made you know, um,

738
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 1: they don't have to worry about the sort of things

739
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,840
Speaker 1: they would usually have to worry about outside of the

740
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 1: domas you know, you are there to make sure that

741
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 1: their competitors are weeded out. You are there to make

742
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 1: sure they get all the nutrients they need. You're there

743
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 1: to make sure that do insects and stuff come and

744
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,399
Speaker 1: like ravage them, and you even help to fertilize them

745
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 1: as well. And so you know, it's kind of like

746
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 1: I want to say, uh, mutual relationship because as you know,

747
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 1: these domesticated plants have continued long this path of domestication.

748
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 1: A lot of them can no longer thrive without our help.

749
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:55,399
Speaker 1: And in the same way, you know, we can't just

750
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 1: not go on without them. You know, we also are

751
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 1: dependent on a handful of domesticated cultivars. Like we can't

752
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 1: just certainly switch and just be like, oh, we're not

753
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 1: gonna grow wheat and corn and potatoes anymore. But I

754
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 1: mean that's been the foundation of all diets for too

755
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 1: long now. That's what you know, most of our food production,

756
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 1: I don't have percentages, I wouldn't say most or just see,

757
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 1: a lot of our food production is like centered around

758
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 1: that and so um, you know we can't just jump

759
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 1: out to that, especially with the population increases, so you

760
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 1: just have grown increasingly reliant on a few like grains

761
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 1: and cereals, um and starches. So yeah, we do we

762
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 1: need them more than they need said a lot of senses. Yeah, yeah,

763
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 1: exactly exactly, because I mean a lot of them. They

764
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: do still have like wild counterparts that can always you know,

765
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 1: take over. It's just a wild counterparts generally less appetizing

766
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,399
Speaker 1: than the ones who have gotten used to. I'm sure

767
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 1: a lot of people have seen that picture of the

768
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 1: different types of bananas out there, um, or you know,

769
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,240
Speaker 1: the different types of corn out there. Um. Of course

770
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 1: there a lot of corn species that are edible because

771
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 1: you know they were cultivated in massive America. UM. I

772
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 1: would like to try them, because the corn that I've

773
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 1: grown up with gotten used too much of what it's called.

774
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 1: But I don't like it. UM. I find the texture

775
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 1: and taste of it to be kind of lack of

776
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 1: a vetter would revolting. So I mean, like, and I've

777
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:43,359
Speaker 1: been this way for like a long long time, right,

778
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:48,399
Speaker 1: Like I growing up used to be refusing to eat

779
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 1: like an entire plate of food because it had corn

780
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:53,879
Speaker 1: in it. I didn't like one. And if people used

781
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 1: to point out the irony and the fact that I

782
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:59,520
Speaker 1: would readily eat like corn pie, I would eat popcorn

783
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 1: or would eat like corn bread. Yeah, but to me,

784
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:08,360
Speaker 1: it's it's not the same, you know, like corn on

785
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: the cob and and stuff is it's not the same. So,

786
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 1: like I've tried some some different types of corn. Like

787
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 1: I've tried it was kind of like soft baby cornes

788
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 1: that you get in like soups and stuff, and those

789
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:26,799
Speaker 1: are delicious. You know. I wouldn't set your sights too

790
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 1: much on those various corn varieties because one of the

791
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 1: oldest ways of eating corn before we had really nice

792
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 1: soft kernels, one of one of the oldest ways is

793
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:37,479
Speaker 1: we would we would take we would take the heart

794
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 1: that the hard corn kernels, um pop them inside a

795
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:44,879
Speaker 1: it's not like a frying pan to make this tart

796
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:47,719
Speaker 1: expand then crush that up and mix it with like

797
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 1: a liquid to have a very disgusting, starchy gruel. And

798
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 1: that was the way that we ate corn for a

799
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 1: long time, and eventually that was eventually we were able

800
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 1: to to like like tortillas and stuff, but for a

801
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 1: long time it was just kind of corn. Yeah, this

802
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 1: was this was amazing problem. This was a major problem

803
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 1: during the Irish potato famine because in short, the potato

804
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 1: crops failed um and so the British government imported a

805
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:18,879
Speaker 1: bunch of what they called Indian corn at the time,

806
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 1: which was corn grown in the United States UM. And

807
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 1: this was even though Irish people were growing plenty of

808
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:26,759
Speaker 1: corn to feed themselves, but that corn was being exported

809
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,720
Speaker 1: UM and the Indian corn was seen that it was harder,

810
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 1: so it was seen as of lower quality. So they

811
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 1: had to develop a bunch of methods of grinding it down,

812
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 1: and eventually the government was just like, hey, just soak

813
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 1: it for like several days and then boil it in

814
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 1: water for hours and add some milk or some grease

815
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 1: if you have it. And some of the problems that

816
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:50,879
Speaker 1: costs that, like the Irish people were starving to death,

817
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 1: and because when you're starving to death, your your stomach

818
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 1: is not as hardy as it is when you're not

819
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 1: starving to death, and so the corn, even after being

820
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:02,360
Speaker 1: boiled old, would cut their stomachs and there is some

821
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:07,720
Speaker 1: deal lining and cause like in some cases people might die. Um,

822
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 1: so yeah, corn, see I could I could add that

823
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:17,759
Speaker 1: to my reasons to despise corn, like anti Irish violence.

824
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I will briefly rant about corn subsidies, because

825
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:24,359
Speaker 1: I don't think I've actually done that on this show yet.

826
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:29,400
Speaker 1: We could talk there's there, there's there's a there's a

827
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:35,319
Speaker 1: thing about that'll be high traffic domass. That's like like

828
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 1: in terms of domestication, in terms of human domestication, you know,

829
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 1: and in terms of the the extent to which we're

830
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 1: being shaped, you have to be I think, very careful

831
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 1: to make sure that you're attributing agency to the thing

832
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:53,800
Speaker 1: that actually has agency, because there's there's a tendency to

833
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 1: sort of attribute stuff too, you know. Okay, well, this

834
00:54:57,640 --> 00:54:59,439
Speaker 1: is just the way the technical process works. And because

835
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 1: this is the way they hadical process works, here are

836
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 1: the social structure is that inevitably results out of it.

837
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:07,800
Speaker 1: And that's true to some extent. But you know, for example,

838
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:09,400
Speaker 1: like if if we're talking about like whose domestic and

839
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 1: whom we look at corn, it's like, well, yeah, because

840
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 1: we grow and grow an enormous amount of corn, but

841
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 1: it's not because of sort of like like that that's

842
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:18,400
Speaker 1: the reason we have so much corn is entirely political.

843
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 1: It's entirely about the fact that, like there's a corn

844
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 1: lobby in the US that is enormously powerful, and because

845
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:26,320
Speaker 1: of the way the Senate works and because of the

846
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:30,160
Speaker 1: way sort of like the primaries work, you have to

847
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 1: be pro corn. And this means that the American corn

848
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 1: industry has billions and billions of dollars and subsidies that

849
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 1: like this is this is like the only thing every

850
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:43,239
Speaker 1: economist across the entire political specium agrees on. Like you

851
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:46,319
Speaker 1: will you will get like the Heritage Foundation agreeing with

852
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 1: like Marxists who are agreeing with like like that the

853
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:52,359
Speaker 1: standard LiPo comes. Everyone agrees this is awful to free

854
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:54,279
Speaker 1: trade people agree with this, The anti free trade people

855
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 1: agree with this. And it just sticks there because of,

856
00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 1: you know, because because because of a very sort of

857
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:04,799
Speaker 1: a very contingent set of political processes. And I think

858
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 1: that that's something that's important to keep in mind when

859
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 1: you're thinking about stuff like domestication, which is that like, yes,

860
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 1: on the one hand, that it is true that you

861
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 1: are being shaped by the production process, but it's also true.

862
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 1: For example, you know, if you go back to the

863
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 1: women in the story, who you know, you can see

864
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 1: in in their bones right that they've been sort of

865
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 1: like bending over like husking crops and stuff. Wells, like

866
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:27,799
Speaker 1: well that that it's true to some exact that that's

867
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 1: that's because of the production process. But the production process

868
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 1: works like that because of social reasons, like okay, like

869
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 1: why is it women doing this work? Right? Like there's

870
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:39,840
Speaker 1: there's always simultaneously sort of human and constructive social systems

871
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 1: operating at the same time as you have these mechanical systems,

872
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 1: and people love to attribute all of it to the

873
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 1: mechanical systems in a way that loses you know it

874
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 1: it naturalizes things that are bad and could actually be changed,

875
00:56:56,280 --> 00:57:00,239
Speaker 1: and loses the capacity for sort of well I mean yeah,

876
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 1: I mean our sort of culpability and both the fact

877
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 1: that it could be different than the fact that we

878
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:09,000
Speaker 1: do it this way. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's still

879
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 1: I think it's still important because to like think about

880
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 1: like how reliant we still are on it as a

881
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 1: resource in terms of like maze and like you know,

882
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:21,160
Speaker 1: corn syrup and like getting like glucose get like, like

883
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 1: it's so we rely on it for so many facets

884
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 1: beyond just eating like a corn on the cob, and like, yeah,

885
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 1: it's kind of it's like it's like a it's like

886
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 1: a it's like a figure right infinity loop here that

887
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 1: we've kind of we've we've kind of like tied ourselves

888
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 1: into a knot. Um. Yeah, I want to say, like

889
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff also has to do with

890
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 1: the fact, like you know, part of the reason that

891
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 1: there's we use corn syrup is they were like taxes

892
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 1: on sugar and you could get you can ye around

893
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 1: and has all there's all these like yeah, there's all

894
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:48,560
Speaker 1: these sort of feedback cycles of like we become dependent

895
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:50,240
Speaker 1: on something because of a social process, but now we're

896
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 1: dependent on the physical process. And it's yeah, I mean,

897
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 1: so you can you can like tie this into the

898
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 1: idea of like once you switched over to large scale agriculture,

899
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 1: we need to kind of have somebody that that governs

900
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 1: how it works, because now we're no longer reliant on

901
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 1: smaller more like individualized farms or forest farming. We're instead

902
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 1: reliant on a bigger you know, like a bigger stake

903
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 1: in the land. So if that fails, we're all more

904
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 1: in trouble. Now, agriculture does not equal sieve. That's not

905
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 1: that's not an actually sound um and the like like anthropology.

906
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 1: Like if if you look at the anthropology, that's actually

907
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 1: not a super stand argument. I think you can you

908
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:30,880
Speaker 1: can read the the the not of everything that makes

909
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 1: they make that point pretty clear. But still when you

910
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 1: do have when you do have a large population relying

911
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 1: on very few like um, very large crop like like

912
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 1: like of only a small diversity of large crops, and

913
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:45,880
Speaker 1: there's a lot there's a lot, there's a lot more

914
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:48,479
Speaker 1: stakes on it. So you're gonna you know, there's gonna

915
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:51,840
Speaker 1: be processes that are going to have like authority, authoritative

916
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:55,959
Speaker 1: hierarchical elements to help organize those crops so that they

917
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 1: we don't get you know, famines, which of course if

918
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:00,959
Speaker 1: you look at Maos China you can see that worked

919
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 1: out very well. Yeah, and I should note for the record,

920
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:07,400
Speaker 1: when we're talking about the Irish potato fam and that

921
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 1: a lot of people didn't die because the government imported corn,

922
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 1: which they stopped doing after the first year of the

923
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 1: famine because of travalie. Anyway, what we're doing, we'll be

924
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 1: doing an episode on the potato famine. I didn't want

925
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:20,600
Speaker 1: to completely shift on the corn that was imported by

926
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 1: the government because it was critical. It's just also eating

927
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 1: corn doesn't historically, as as was brought up earlier, eating

928
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 1: corn historically does not mean what you you think about now. Yeah, well,

929
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 1: and and you know what, we will also do things

930
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:38,160
Speaker 1: on on the Mao famines. And part of that also

931
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:42,040
Speaker 1: was that the centralization of agriculture was a like epocle

932
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 1: disaster in a lot of ways that took like decades

933
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 1: to recover from, which, yeah, is a is a fun time. Yes,

934
00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 1: and when Chris says a fun time here, he is

935
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:02,840
Speaker 1: not the true But those new ideas who were wondering,

936
01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, I Drew for that clarification. I was,

937
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 1: I was slightly I was slightly confused. Yes he is.

938
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 1: He is slash G. He is not slash SR. Yeah.

939
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:18,240
Speaker 1: I mean it occurs to me that I'm not sure

940
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:19,960
Speaker 1: I've ever gone back into the records to see if

941
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:21,720
Speaker 1: anyone in my family died from the famines. I know

942
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:23,800
Speaker 1: people died later, I don't know if people died specifically

943
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 1: from that. Which is a good time. Again, but when

944
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 1: Chris has a good time, what they actually made. Is

945
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 1: not a good time. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, back to against

946
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 1: the grain, back to against the green. So I was

947
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:46,560
Speaker 1: talking about, you know, this reliance on this one steep

948
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:49,640
Speaker 1: will whether it be corn or green or any cereal.

949
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:53,479
Speaker 1: Really it kind of brings to mind. Um. And also

950
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the centralization of farming. I know, um,

951
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:00,160
Speaker 1: you know we've grown to be so reliant and these

952
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:04,840
Speaker 1: single things. And not only that, but less people know

953
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:09,600
Speaker 1: about the processes that go into our food than ever before. Um.

954
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 1: We see kind of like as time progresses, um. And

955
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:18,080
Speaker 1: as James Scott points out, and to gatherers, you know,

956
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:21,680
Speaker 1: they had this post of natural rhythms that they had

957
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:24,960
Speaker 1: to observe. You know, they had like the movement of hoods,

958
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:29,160
Speaker 1: to see some migrations of boods, you know, the resting

959
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:34,080
Speaker 1: and nesting places of fish, cycles of who will hold

960
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 1: the different fruits and nuts. Um. And if you in

961
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 1: the Caribbean, you would know about things like you know,

962
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:44,040
Speaker 1: mango season and plum season and chant season, all these

963
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 1: different seasons at different times of year. Um. And to

964
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:51,240
Speaker 1: keep track of all those plus several more because they

965
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:55,480
Speaker 1: had such diverse diets, I mean, the way to track

966
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 1: the appearance of you know, different mushrooms, Um, the locations,

967
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:04,680
Speaker 1: different types of game. You know, it's it's all these

968
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:10,040
Speaker 1: activities that require tool kits, writing, different techniques that have

969
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 1: to be mastered. Have we understood have to be shared

970
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 1: from generations generation. You know. They also in addition to that,

971
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:20,280
Speaker 1: you know, these forts, they had the ability to cultivate,

972
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:24,560
Speaker 1: you know, a lots of different stands of you know, cereal. Um,

973
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:27,240
Speaker 1: they had the different tools. They hadn't have to make

974
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:32,200
Speaker 1: sickles and you know, um what you call those against

975
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 1: sling shots and blue dots and all these different tools.

976
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:42,280
Speaker 1: Wort have used spears, arrows. And they also would have

977
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:47,040
Speaker 1: had to recognize the seasonality of sometimes different ecosystems. You know,

978
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:50,000
Speaker 1: they might have been crossing for white lands and forests

979
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:54,040
Speaker 1: and savannahs and arid environments. And so as they understand

980
01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:57,200
Speaker 1: they had to understand these, um, these rhythms, and they

981
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:02,600
Speaker 1: had to be generalists and opportunity that could take advantage

982
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:07,200
Speaker 1: of these different rhythms, all the different episodic bounties that

983
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:10,920
Speaker 1: nature may provide or rather that provide, but you know,

984
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:14,439
Speaker 1: bring their way that they would have to kind of fight.

985
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 1: Four in some cases, but they have this sort of metronome. Right.

986
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:23,160
Speaker 1: Farmers on the other hand, you know, as we sort

987
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 1: of moved to that sort of farming dominant, sedentary sort

988
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 1: of way of life, you know, you lost you can

989
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 1: find to this one single food web. Right, your two

990
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:36,520
Speaker 1: routine has a particular tempo you s left abso observe

991
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:40,720
Speaker 1: you know, different seasonalities and different movements. But it's a

992
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:43,240
Speaker 1: bit more limited. You know, you have a handful of

993
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:46,480
Speaker 1: crops that you have to bring successfully to harvest every yale,

994
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:48,680
Speaker 1: and I mean it's complex. A lot of things have

995
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 1: to look out for, whether it be you know, diseases

996
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:57,280
Speaker 1: and pathogens and you know, different insects and and pests

997
01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:00,880
Speaker 1: at me um come at to your crops. You know,

998
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:02,680
Speaker 1: you have to look out full of different things, but

999
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:15,760
Speaker 1: it's usually uh closer, less expansive range of activities, at

1000
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:20,800
Speaker 1: least in comparison to hunt gatherer. On the other hand,

1001
01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 1: farming and the nuances of cereal grain farming um far

1002
01:04:29,720 --> 01:04:35,200
Speaker 1: more complex, require far more skill and much wider range

1003
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:41,160
Speaker 1: of knowledges than you know working on an assembly line.

1004
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:47,760
Speaker 1: You know, um, as believe Adam Smith points on wealthy nations,

1005
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:50,840
Speaker 1: you know you have all these people on this assembly

1006
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:55,880
Speaker 1: line making pins, but Alexis they took a ville asks

1007
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:58,440
Speaker 1: what can be expected of a man who has spent

1008
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:02,160
Speaker 1: twenty years of his life putting heads on thins? You know,

1009
01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 1: just sort of a restriction in terms of a contraction

1010
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:11,600
Speaker 1: in terms of the range of knowledges and expertise is

1011
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:18,520
Speaker 1: that you know one can be expected to take on UM.

1012
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:20,720
Speaker 1: And so I guess that kind of links into my

1013
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:24,600
Speaker 1: whole idea of anti work. It's this idea of moving

1014
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:29,439
Speaker 1: outside and beyond this kind of restriction to like one

1015
01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:34,040
Speaker 1: or two or a few rigorous activities that you expected

1016
01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:36,560
Speaker 1: to do for the rest of your life, and also

1017
01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:42,080
Speaker 1: opening people up to exploring a wider range of knowledges

1018
01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:47,440
Speaker 1: and expertises and experiences and practices that you know they

1019
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:53,440
Speaker 1: can weave into their everyday life rather than you know,

1020
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 1: just one minutely choreographed routine of dance steps. You know,

1021
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:03,600
Speaker 1: there's a bit more expression, a bit more freedom in

1022
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:07,000
Speaker 1: terms of you know, how we live, in terms of

1023
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:10,360
Speaker 1: how we work, in terms of how we educate, in

1024
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:16,000
Speaker 1: terms of how we build, UM, how we socialize UM.

1025
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 1: Being able to sort of much just marsh to one beat,

1026
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:27,920
Speaker 1: but sort of generating a company of music. Absolutely, absolutely,

1027
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:32,479
Speaker 1: because I think no matter whether or not you own

1028
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:36,120
Speaker 1: a share in the pinmaking factory, I think you're still

1029
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:39,280
Speaker 1: gonna face alienation from your environment by just doing the

1030
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:42,520
Speaker 1: same repetitive taskt hours a day. Like I don't. I

1031
01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:50,640
Speaker 1: don't think that's actually much better. Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly,

1032
01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:54,320
Speaker 1: And it requires transmission. And so for those who haven't seen,

1033
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:57,560
Speaker 1: you know, I did a video on anti work sort

1034
01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:01,000
Speaker 1: of discussing it, so we could check that out when

1035
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:05,000
Speaker 1: this comes out, I suppose. I just want to point

1036
01:07:05,040 --> 01:07:11,840
Speaker 1: out that right now we live in a society that

1037
01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:19,920
Speaker 1: um that is governed by institutions that often demand behavior

1038
01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 1: that conflicts with our innate capacities and predilections. You know,

1039
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:30,080
Speaker 1: the millions of years of us living in these you know,

1040
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:39,720
Speaker 1: cooperative social sharing environments, you know, where community, communal and

1041
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:47,200
Speaker 1: individual um rights and and stuff and such were valued

1042
01:07:47,240 --> 01:07:51,960
Speaker 1: and respected. I mean to sort of draw back to

1043
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:54,800
Speaker 1: the Truman Show analogy. It's almost as if, you know,

1044
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 1: we went from living in the world to living in

1045
01:07:57,160 --> 01:08:01,000
Speaker 1: a zoom of our own making. They were just being well,

1046
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:05,200
Speaker 1: I guess we're watching ourselves in this suit. Yeah, It's

1047
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:07,320
Speaker 1: it's like the zoo keeper who lives inside the zoo

1048
01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:13,040
Speaker 1: and is also the attraction exactly. And and so I

1049
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:17,879
Speaker 1: think that while obviously we can't switch back to like foraging,

1050
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:22,599
Speaker 1: you know, that's not necessarily desirable. I do think that

1051
01:08:22,960 --> 01:08:26,720
Speaker 1: we need to we consider our approaches to you know,

1052
01:08:27,520 --> 01:08:35,280
Speaker 1: health and security and work and leisure and the way

1053
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:38,599
Speaker 1: we relate to the natural world. You have to sort

1054
01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:44,200
Speaker 1: of change the story and changed how we organize. It's

1055
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:48,439
Speaker 1: going to take Charlione Ore of course. Um. Anyone who's

1056
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:52,759
Speaker 1: organized can tell you that it is far from easy, um,

1057
01:08:52,760 --> 01:09:00,639
Speaker 1: and is replete with setback and failure. But I think

1058
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:07,559
Speaker 1: we have a responsibility too remique this. It's not as

1059
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:11,400
Speaker 1: cool to write the wrongs of yesterday to the end tomorrow,

1060
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:17,160
Speaker 1: nows it? Whoa throwing a couple of air horns here, Dad,

1061
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:21,479
Speaker 1: make sure they're pitched lower so that it's not horrible

1062
01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:42,160
Speaker 1: to listen to. No, never do that. Oh yeah, it

1063
01:09:42,320 --> 01:09:47,439
Speaker 1: could happen here. The only podcast that is on right

1064
01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:50,160
Speaker 1: now in your ears where you can listen to us

1065
01:09:50,200 --> 01:09:56,160
Speaker 1: talk about things falling apart and occasionally more optimistic stuff. Garrison,

1066
01:09:56,680 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 1: is this one of the more optimistic stuff days? Not really,

1067
01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:03,000
Speaker 1: it's things, it's things falling apart, but in a slightly

1068
01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:08,680
Speaker 1: amusing way. Yeah, it's it's it's gonna be fine. Um,

1069
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:12,559
Speaker 1: So have is any is any of y'all's familiar with

1070
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:19,320
Speaker 1: the Devious Licks? Vaguely? Yeah, so all of all of

1071
01:10:19,439 --> 01:10:20,920
Speaker 1: I'm sure all of the I'm sure all of the

1072
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:23,479
Speaker 1: lick fans are gonna be really excited about today's episode

1073
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:26,439
Speaker 1: because the first half will be we'll be talking about

1074
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:30,680
Speaker 1: all of the all of the licks. So for for

1075
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:35,439
Speaker 1: those unfamiliar, the Devious Licks meme challenge thing started with

1076
01:10:35,479 --> 01:10:39,719
Speaker 1: this video by a kid who had stolen quote unquote

1077
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:42,439
Speaker 1: stolen a bunch of like COVID masks from his school

1078
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:48,120
Speaker 1: and then was showing off his his his harvest on

1079
01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:51,320
Speaker 1: TikTok played over you know, played over a song or

1080
01:10:51,360 --> 01:10:55,000
Speaker 1: something as as you do on the TikTok's. So they

1081
01:10:55,080 --> 01:10:58,080
Speaker 1: posted the video with this caption a month into school,

1082
01:10:58,360 --> 01:11:03,559
Speaker 1: absolutely devious slick um I and lick. I think lick

1083
01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:06,519
Speaker 1: just means like stealing, like like you like stole something

1084
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:09,400
Speaker 1: and like that's like that is a lick um. I

1085
01:11:09,439 --> 01:11:11,639
Speaker 1: was so sad when I first heard about this. I

1086
01:11:11,640 --> 01:11:14,040
Speaker 1: I heard I heard someone say devious licks and I

1087
01:11:14,120 --> 01:11:16,120
Speaker 1: was like, they're like, oh, the TikTok challenge. And I

1088
01:11:16,160 --> 01:11:19,080
Speaker 1: was like, oh, ship, people are like walking up to

1089
01:11:19,160 --> 01:11:21,000
Speaker 1: like like they're gonna like lick the other side of

1090
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:22,960
Speaker 1: a bridge or something. And then it was not that

1091
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:26,320
Speaker 1: unfortunately unfortunately not. Yeah it is, it is. It is

1092
01:11:26,360 --> 01:11:31,439
Speaker 1: a real loss. Um. So this this video went very

1093
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:35,479
Speaker 1: very viral on TikTok very very quickly, um, mostly among

1094
01:11:35,560 --> 01:11:39,479
Speaker 1: kids whom's like their in person school had just had

1095
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 1: just started. This was this thing in like late August

1096
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:46,559
Speaker 1: early September of last year, uh, you know first with

1097
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:50,920
Speaker 1: you know. The initial video then subsequently inspired a bunch

1098
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:55,480
Speaker 1: of copycat school related heists that then posted into TikTok's

1099
01:11:56,160 --> 01:12:00,160
Speaker 1: first People just stealing like small, mostly low stakes things,

1100
01:12:00,280 --> 01:12:03,559
Speaker 1: usually inside the bathrooms, you know, stuff like toilet paper rolls,

1101
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:08,800
Speaker 1: paper tower rolls, soap from soap dispensers, light bulbs, you know,

1102
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:15,520
Speaker 1: like floor tiles, just like just like small things. Um.

1103
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:18,200
Speaker 1: But after a while the smoke fry wasn't was not

1104
01:12:18,400 --> 01:12:23,400
Speaker 1: enough anymore. People started to get more um brazen, more

1105
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:28,080
Speaker 1: more more devious, you might say, yeah they were. They

1106
01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:32,120
Speaker 1: moved on to like full on toilet heists. Um. And uh,

1107
01:12:32,200 --> 01:12:37,439
Speaker 1: you know electric hand dryers. They stole a teacher's entire desk, um,

1108
01:12:37,560 --> 01:12:44,120
Speaker 1: and a whole bathroom sink. So yeah, and eventually they

1109
01:12:44,200 --> 01:12:47,160
Speaker 1: kind of dropped all pretense of this being hoisting and

1110
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:50,320
Speaker 1: just sort of just like destroying the bathrooms, um, not

1111
01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:53,160
Speaker 1: even stealing things anymore. Yeah, Garrison, you and I have

1112
01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:55,040
Speaker 1: a friend who works at a school where this has

1113
01:12:55,040 --> 01:12:58,680
Speaker 1: been We got accused of like pushing disinformation when we

1114
01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:00,640
Speaker 1: talked about this on Worst Year. It's like, no, we

1115
01:13:00,680 --> 01:13:02,439
Speaker 1: know people who work at a school that has not

1116
01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:09,160
Speaker 1: had functional students happened, and it's it's very funny, as

1117
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:12,840
Speaker 1: just just just to clarify my opinion on it, very funny, Yes,

1118
01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:17,639
Speaker 1: it's um, yes, they but yeah, just just it started.

1119
01:13:17,640 --> 01:13:20,080
Speaker 1: It started with stealing and then just Scott turned into

1120
01:13:20,240 --> 01:13:24,519
Speaker 1: let's just destroy the batchards, which is pretty funny. Kids rock,

1121
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:31,960
Speaker 1: Kids rock. So obviously schools, teachers and principles were scrambling. Um.

1122
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:37,360
Speaker 1: Their confusion only upseeded uh by their being upset because

1123
01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:40,360
Speaker 1: they shouldn't have allowed children to be born into a

1124
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:43,479
Speaker 1: world where TikTok could exist. Really is on them, and

1125
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:46,599
Speaker 1: you know, all of the upsetted nous by teachers and

1126
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:50,080
Speaker 1: schools only like contributed to the meme with like kids

1127
01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:52,599
Speaker 1: posting their principles reactions to it, you know, like like

1128
01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:56,120
Speaker 1: people like like announcing over the intercom, like like new

1129
01:13:56,240 --> 01:14:01,040
Speaker 1: rules about how to prevent the bastard destruction of schools

1130
01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:04,040
Speaker 1: are having to like station staff members outside of bathrooms

1131
01:14:04,120 --> 01:14:06,679
Speaker 1: to like like check and hopefully like ward off any

1132
01:14:06,720 --> 01:14:10,519
Speaker 1: possible destructive shenanigans. Um. It was it was this, It

1133
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:13,120
Speaker 1: was it was this entire thing. Uh, And it got

1134
01:14:13,160 --> 01:14:15,719
Speaker 1: to the point where TikTok actually had to step into

1135
01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:19,200
Speaker 1: kind of curb this meme. They banned the hashtag devious slick,

1136
01:14:19,560 --> 01:14:21,640
Speaker 1: they took down any content that had anything to do

1137
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:25,840
Speaker 1: with the trend, and this seemed to work. Um. After

1138
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:28,639
Speaker 1: a few weeks, the meme kind of reached the end

1139
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:32,679
Speaker 1: of its virility cycle. Teachers got to breathe a sigh

1140
01:14:32,760 --> 01:14:36,160
Speaker 1: of relief. Maybe there would be no more smashed bathrooms

1141
01:14:36,240 --> 01:14:43,920
Speaker 1: or stolen desks fools um. But their calumn did not

1142
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:48,720
Speaker 1: last long. By the end of September, there were rumors

1143
01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:56,680
Speaker 1: perculating around that devious Yeah, I got perculating percolating, Come on,

1144
01:14:57,760 --> 01:15:02,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. It was it was it was it was.

1145
01:15:02,120 --> 01:15:03,960
Speaker 1: It was said that the davious Licks may not have

1146
01:15:03,960 --> 01:15:06,080
Speaker 1: a wooden stick through its heart, and we may have

1147
01:15:06,120 --> 01:15:10,200
Speaker 1: only witnessed the first wave. With something much darker lurking

1148
01:15:10,240 --> 01:15:14,880
Speaker 1: around the corner. On Facebook, various parent, teacher and law

1149
01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:20,800
Speaker 1: enforcement groups started circulating some per purported sorry started circulating

1150
01:15:20,800 --> 01:15:25,559
Speaker 1: some purported Shenanigan plans from the kids. On TikTok, there

1151
01:15:25,640 --> 01:15:29,800
Speaker 1: was this month by month calendar detailing two kids what

1152
01:15:30,040 --> 01:15:32,880
Speaker 1: sick pranks they should play on their school for the

1153
01:15:33,160 --> 01:15:36,200
Speaker 1: for the entire rest of the year. Uh and a

1154
01:15:36,200 --> 01:15:39,240
Speaker 1: few versions of this calendar were spread around, but they

1155
01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:42,280
Speaker 1: all shared the same basic overall structure and prank ideas,

1156
01:15:42,520 --> 01:15:45,679
Speaker 1: just some like wording and phrasing changed. And the first

1157
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:50,040
Speaker 1: upcoming challenge for the month of October was slap a

1158
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:57,479
Speaker 1: teacher Sorry. This spread beyond Facebook and including to local news. Well.

1159
01:15:57,560 --> 01:16:00,759
Speaker 1: Now another TikTok challenge getting a lot of attention tonight,

1160
01:16:00,760 --> 01:16:04,240
Speaker 1: and it's a violent one, targeting teachers that if had

1161
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:07,439
Speaker 1: a joint union superintendent. Asking parents now to tell their

1162
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:10,960
Speaker 1: kids not to participate in this challenge. It encourages students

1163
01:16:10,960 --> 01:16:14,280
Speaker 1: to actually slap their teachers. So although the smack of

1164
01:16:14,360 --> 01:16:16,519
Speaker 1: teacher line was what really got this thing to go

1165
01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:21,080
Speaker 1: viral on Facebook. Uh. The main screenshot at calendar that

1166
01:16:21,160 --> 01:16:25,600
Speaker 1: was being circulated. Uh, the actual October challenge was listed

1167
01:16:25,680 --> 01:16:28,200
Speaker 1: as a smack of staff member on the back side.

1168
01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:32,320
Speaker 1: That was that was the actual phrasing. Um, which is

1169
01:16:32,439 --> 01:16:35,360
Speaker 1: a little a little bizarre smack of staff member on

1170
01:16:35,439 --> 01:16:41,320
Speaker 1: the back side. Uh. November is kiss your friend's girlfriend

1171
01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:47,719
Speaker 1: at school, so again we're weird. Phrasing. December is deck

1172
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:51,360
Speaker 1: the halls and show your balls in school halls, which

1173
01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:56,880
Speaker 1: that one was probably written by a child. But then

1174
01:16:56,920 --> 01:16:59,920
Speaker 1: we get other stuff like January is jab of breath.

1175
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:05,240
Speaker 1: Uh so more more sexual as salt jokes. Um, February

1176
01:17:05,400 --> 01:17:08,720
Speaker 1: we have a mess up school signs. March is make

1177
01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:12,679
Speaker 1: a mess in the courtyarder cafeteria. April this one's weird.

1178
01:17:13,160 --> 01:17:17,200
Speaker 1: April is grab some eggs, but eggs is in quotation

1179
01:17:17,240 --> 01:17:21,160
Speaker 1: marks and with a z at the end. Um. May

1180
01:17:21,320 --> 01:17:24,439
Speaker 1: is ditch day, that's fine. June is flip off the

1181
01:17:24,439 --> 01:17:28,679
Speaker 1: front office, okay, who cares? And July is spraying April's fence.

1182
01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:32,760
Speaker 1: Wow graffiti scary. Um, So yeah, that is that is

1183
01:17:32,880 --> 01:17:35,840
Speaker 1: that is the calendar of challenges. Uh. Some of these

1184
01:17:35,960 --> 01:17:40,400
Speaker 1: seem more. I mean, we talked about this a couple

1185
01:17:40,439 --> 01:17:43,559
Speaker 1: of months ago, and my feeling was that this started

1186
01:17:43,560 --> 01:17:47,920
Speaker 1: as something real, just like yeah, and and this this

1187
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:50,360
Speaker 1: ship was where it was. It became nonsense, which just

1188
01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:53,240
Speaker 1: like people sharing things that we're going to anger boomers

1189
01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:57,800
Speaker 1: this and we will we will get into this. Um So. Yeah.

1190
01:17:57,840 --> 01:18:01,040
Speaker 1: As as news about the TikTok challenges spread on Facebook, media,

1191
01:18:01,160 --> 01:18:03,240
Speaker 1: orgs picked up on the trend and started showting out

1192
01:18:03,280 --> 01:18:09,959
Speaker 1: headlines like TikTok's shocking school challenges liste revealed and devious

1193
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:13,960
Speaker 1: licks asks students via TikTok to smack a staff member.

1194
01:18:14,479 --> 01:18:18,479
Speaker 1: The nation's teachers are feeling burnt out. So great, great

1195
01:18:18,479 --> 01:18:21,880
Speaker 1: headlines there. Um So all of that sounds so obviously

1196
01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:24,880
Speaker 1: very scary. Um if if if if teens around the

1197
01:18:24,920 --> 01:18:29,680
Speaker 1: country are all united in this, in this, in in

1198
01:18:29,720 --> 01:18:34,120
Speaker 1: this planned destruction of our entire civilization, that that you know,

1199
01:18:34,320 --> 01:18:37,040
Speaker 1: we could all be brought onto the brink of UH

1200
01:18:37,560 --> 01:18:40,800
Speaker 1: via teens destroying their schools. Was so that would be

1201
01:18:40,880 --> 01:18:43,000
Speaker 1: that would be kind of fun. Um. But if you

1202
01:18:43,040 --> 01:18:45,320
Speaker 1: stop and think about the wording of that list for

1203
01:18:45,360 --> 01:18:48,000
Speaker 1: a second, you might notice some things that just seem off,

1204
01:18:48,120 --> 01:18:52,040
Speaker 1: like no Gen Z kids are saying, uh, smack a

1205
01:18:52,160 --> 01:18:58,360
Speaker 1: staff member on the backside, Like you are the first

1206
01:18:58,439 --> 01:19:03,880
Speaker 1: member of Generation Z to say backside, backside, And like

1207
01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:07,920
Speaker 1: the challenge for April is grab some eggs and eggs

1208
01:19:07,920 --> 01:19:10,240
Speaker 1: in quotation arcs with a Z at the end, because yeah,

1209
01:19:10,280 --> 01:19:12,640
Speaker 1: all of all of the cool kids today uses Z

1210
01:19:12,800 --> 01:19:16,080
Speaker 1: at the end of words to make Again, it's some

1211
01:19:16,280 --> 01:19:20,840
Speaker 1: like fucking gen X or maybe elder millennial piece of

1212
01:19:20,840 --> 01:19:23,400
Speaker 1: ship trying to make people angry on the internet, and

1213
01:19:23,439 --> 01:19:31,160
Speaker 1: he's just like April, what goes with April? April eggs? Eggs? Yeah,

1214
01:19:31,240 --> 01:19:33,679
Speaker 1: I don't know something, but like all of the language

1215
01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:36,760
Speaker 1: feels like what what what someone would write if they

1216
01:19:36,760 --> 01:19:39,400
Speaker 1: were trying to imitate what a cool nineties kid would

1217
01:19:39,439 --> 01:19:42,160
Speaker 1: talk like on TV. Yeah, it's a lot of people

1218
01:19:42,240 --> 01:19:47,720
Speaker 1: trying to write John Hughes movies. Yeah, but so, but

1219
01:19:47,800 --> 01:19:49,840
Speaker 1: all all this was very vitral for like it was

1220
01:19:50,080 --> 01:19:52,080
Speaker 1: the end of September. This was this was all massive

1221
01:19:52,160 --> 01:19:54,439
Speaker 1: and we we will don't worry. I will explain why

1222
01:19:54,560 --> 01:19:56,680
Speaker 1: we're talking about this now because this does this, this

1223
01:19:56,720 --> 01:19:59,519
Speaker 1: will circle back to actually current events. Um, I'm not

1224
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:03,200
Speaker 1: not just talking about a September trend. This, this does,

1225
01:20:03,280 --> 01:20:07,160
Speaker 1: this does relate to stuff happening currently. Um but yeah,

1226
01:20:07,320 --> 01:20:10,960
Speaker 1: like suspicious language aside the idea that the youths are

1227
01:20:10,960 --> 01:20:14,479
Speaker 1: purposely plotting on the TikTok's to assault teachers andreek havoc

1228
01:20:14,720 --> 01:20:18,439
Speaker 1: all year long. Uh. Frightened many an adult, especially those

1229
01:20:18,479 --> 01:20:21,160
Speaker 1: that work in the education sector, who who might have

1230
01:20:21,200 --> 01:20:24,120
Speaker 1: to face the possibility of a coordinated zoom or wrath.

1231
01:20:24,920 --> 01:20:27,040
Speaker 1: And you know the past two years had already been

1232
01:20:27,120 --> 01:20:29,280
Speaker 1: kind of a ship show for schools, with switching to

1233
01:20:29,320 --> 01:20:32,759
Speaker 1: remote learning then back to in person. There's all all debate,

1234
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:35,639
Speaker 1: all the debate around masks and vaccinations and the risk

1235
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:39,200
Speaker 1: of being inside around densely packed you know, groups of filthy,

1236
01:20:39,240 --> 01:20:42,160
Speaker 1: germ written children. Um. Plus there's all these kids that

1237
01:20:42,240 --> 01:20:44,679
Speaker 1: got used to being home alone for so long learning

1238
01:20:44,680 --> 01:20:46,360
Speaker 1: half to like like having to learn now how to

1239
01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:50,040
Speaker 1: like socialize in the class environment. Um, all while dealing

1240
01:20:50,080 --> 01:20:52,040
Speaker 1: with the same mental trauma that we've all been dealing

1241
01:20:52,040 --> 01:20:56,920
Speaker 1: with around around the plague. So so, just having faced

1242
01:20:57,000 --> 01:21:00,920
Speaker 1: the actual very real September devious licks, the problems of

1243
01:21:00,920 --> 01:21:04,760
Speaker 1: a year lowing TikTok with of destruction obviously frightened many

1244
01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:08,840
Speaker 1: parents and teachers, with educators on Facebook, you know, starting

1245
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:11,360
Speaker 1: to take this list as a very real threat, with

1246
01:21:11,400 --> 01:21:16,080
Speaker 1: school districts, you know, issuing warnings and parents where you know, informed,

1247
01:21:16,160 --> 01:21:20,360
Speaker 1: like in mass about this very very real, very real threat.

1248
01:21:21,000 --> 01:21:25,080
Speaker 1: Educators be aware. That's the warning from the California Teachers Association.

1249
01:21:25,520 --> 01:21:28,599
Speaker 1: The group sent this message to educators letting them know

1250
01:21:28,720 --> 01:21:32,320
Speaker 1: about a potential TikTok trend calling for students to slap

1251
01:21:32,320 --> 01:21:35,439
Speaker 1: a staff member. Seminole County Schools just sent this letter

1252
01:21:35,479 --> 01:21:39,599
Speaker 1: to principles warning them of TikTok's October challenge, saying, quote,

1253
01:21:39,840 --> 01:21:43,400
Speaker 1: in the latest TikTok trend, students are asked to calmly

1254
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:46,719
Speaker 1: walk up to their teachers, slap them, and then run off,

1255
01:21:46,760 --> 01:21:50,440
Speaker 1: making sure they capture the whole thing on camera. Okay,

1256
01:21:50,439 --> 01:21:54,439
Speaker 1: and we are back. So yeah, sure enough. News of

1257
01:21:54,479 --> 01:21:59,240
Speaker 1: teachers getting slapped began to circulate from local media into

1258
01:21:59,320 --> 01:22:04,040
Speaker 1: the nationals, far alongside headlines like TikTok inspired slap a

1259
01:22:04,120 --> 01:22:08,599
Speaker 1: teacher challenge assault reported at Braintrees East Middle School and

1260
01:22:09,080 --> 01:22:14,080
Speaker 1: Covington police say disabled teacher injured and suspected TikTok challenge

1261
01:22:14,120 --> 01:22:19,840
Speaker 1: assaulted by student. Uh yeah, so there was there was

1262
01:22:19,880 --> 01:22:22,280
Speaker 1: there was a There was a few slapping incidents reported

1263
01:22:22,280 --> 01:22:26,719
Speaker 1: onto mainstream on on onto mainstream news, all all tied

1264
01:22:26,840 --> 01:22:31,400
Speaker 1: to the to the TikTok assaulted teacher thing um As,

1265
01:22:31,439 --> 01:22:34,320
Speaker 1: a student in Louisiana was arrested and faced felony charges,

1266
01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:37,120
Speaker 1: with police saying the assault was prompted by a quote

1267
01:22:37,240 --> 01:22:41,920
Speaker 1: prompted by a viral social media application known as TikTok s.

1268
01:22:44,720 --> 01:22:48,400
Speaker 1: We've done to notorious hacker again and I think circles

1269
01:22:48,439 --> 01:22:55,200
Speaker 1: back application known as TikTok Um. So yeah, in October,

1270
01:22:55,280 --> 01:22:59,400
Speaker 1: there were definitely incidents of students, city teachers, um. But

1271
01:22:59,720 --> 01:23:01,960
Speaker 1: so that that in and of itself is not up

1272
01:23:02,000 --> 01:23:06,080
Speaker 1: for debate. This there, yes, uh, but the actual scale

1273
01:23:06,120 --> 01:23:10,280
Speaker 1: of content spreading this list and the subsequent slapping videos

1274
01:23:10,360 --> 01:23:14,759
Speaker 1: on the TikTok platform is something to question because writing

1275
01:23:14,880 --> 01:23:19,240
Speaker 1: writing off of the September Davious like STrenD, almost all media, police, parents,

1276
01:23:19,400 --> 01:23:23,840
Speaker 1: educators were super quick to link this list and these

1277
01:23:23,960 --> 01:23:28,120
Speaker 1: few teachers whackings to the social media platform used by

1278
01:23:28,240 --> 01:23:32,599
Speaker 1: gen Z, the application known as TikTok Um. And so

1279
01:23:32,640 --> 01:23:34,080
Speaker 1: we we have we have all this talk on the

1280
01:23:34,080 --> 01:23:37,320
Speaker 1: news and on Facebook. But the thing is, if you

1281
01:23:37,439 --> 01:23:40,400
Speaker 1: check TikTok or at like if if if, if you're

1282
01:23:40,400 --> 01:23:43,120
Speaker 1: actually on TikTok around this time, you wouldn't find any

1283
01:23:43,200 --> 01:23:47,200
Speaker 1: viral videos of teachers getting slapped um or anything about

1284
01:23:47,280 --> 01:23:51,439
Speaker 1: this TikTok list of challenges at all. It wasn't actually there, like,

1285
01:23:51,520 --> 01:23:54,080
Speaker 1: it wasn't actually on TikTok. This this wasn't actually a thing.

1286
01:23:54,880 --> 01:23:58,040
Speaker 1: Uh So, you know, then you know you might be thinking, well,

1287
01:23:58,080 --> 01:24:00,320
Speaker 1: maybe TikTok is doing what they did previously just to

1288
01:24:00,360 --> 01:24:04,120
Speaker 1: shut down the original organic previously challenge. What if they're

1289
01:24:04,160 --> 01:24:06,519
Speaker 1: just doing this like preemptively to taking down any content

1290
01:24:06,880 --> 01:24:10,679
Speaker 1: related to the list, any like corresponding hashtags, etcetera, etcetera.

1291
01:24:11,400 --> 01:24:13,800
Speaker 1: But when journalists asked TikTok if this was the case,

1292
01:24:14,040 --> 01:24:16,799
Speaker 1: they denied this, saying that we have not seen anything

1293
01:24:16,840 --> 01:24:20,679
Speaker 1: of this nature on our app um. Then they said

1294
01:24:20,680 --> 01:24:23,080
Speaker 1: the first time they TikTok said, the first time they

1295
01:24:23,080 --> 01:24:26,240
Speaker 1: saw the list was of screenshots of it on other websites.

1296
01:24:26,280 --> 01:24:28,360
Speaker 1: It was it was not it was not from TikTok.

1297
01:24:28,439 --> 01:24:31,479
Speaker 1: It wasn't actually there. Uh So, As as more and

1298
01:24:31,520 --> 01:24:34,559
Speaker 1: more news circulated and blame was continuing to be put

1299
01:24:34,600 --> 01:24:37,720
Speaker 1: on TikTok for propagating this list of challenges and you know,

1300
01:24:38,120 --> 01:24:42,559
Speaker 1: encouraging teacher assaults. Uh. The social media platform made a

1301
01:24:42,560 --> 01:24:45,880
Speaker 1: public statement addressing the issue, saying, quote, the rumored slap

1302
01:24:45,880 --> 01:24:49,320
Speaker 1: a teacher dare is an insult to educators everywhere. And

1303
01:24:49,360 --> 01:24:51,240
Speaker 1: while this is not a trend on TikTok, if at

1304
01:24:51,280 --> 01:24:55,240
Speaker 1: any point it shows up, content will be removed. So

1305
01:24:55,320 --> 01:24:57,639
Speaker 1: as as much as you would search online on TikTok

1306
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:00,320
Speaker 1: or you know wherever, you wouldn't find any of into

1307
01:25:00,400 --> 01:25:03,360
Speaker 1: this list actually being spread through TikTok at all. The

1308
01:25:03,640 --> 01:25:06,719
Speaker 1: only thing that you would find about this on TikTok

1309
01:25:06,920 --> 01:25:10,639
Speaker 1: is either kids reacting to news clips talking about this,

1310
01:25:11,240 --> 01:25:14,080
Speaker 1: or teachers on TikTok complain any of this as well.

1311
01:25:14,280 --> 01:25:19,120
Speaker 1: It wasn't actually a trend. Uh. The list was being

1312
01:25:19,120 --> 01:25:21,960
Speaker 1: shared online a lot like it was very viral, but

1313
01:25:22,840 --> 01:25:27,640
Speaker 1: almost exclusively in Facebook groups for boomers or adults or

1314
01:25:27,760 --> 01:25:32,759
Speaker 1: teachers or police. But people seemed real scared of those groups.

1315
01:25:32,760 --> 01:25:37,360
Speaker 1: Boomers Garrison, okay, that no died. Um it's it's it's

1316
01:25:37,360 --> 01:25:46,760
Speaker 1: it's like a mental ethnicity now, um. People people seem

1317
01:25:46,800 --> 01:25:49,800
Speaker 1: really scared. You know, schools were scared. News media loves

1318
01:25:49,880 --> 01:25:54,000
Speaker 1: turning this list into like a looming, looming boogeyman. But

1319
01:25:54,120 --> 01:25:57,360
Speaker 1: it wasn't. It wasn't kids actually spreading it or turning

1320
01:25:57,360 --> 01:25:59,640
Speaker 1: into a challenge, which leaves you to wonder where did

1321
01:25:59,640 --> 01:26:02,080
Speaker 1: this even come from and how did it actually get

1322
01:26:02,120 --> 01:26:07,280
Speaker 1: so viral. So multiple and multiple fully separate investigative kind

1323
01:26:07,280 --> 01:26:12,040
Speaker 1: of ordeals into the alleged TikTok list of challenges placed

1324
01:26:12,200 --> 01:26:16,120
Speaker 1: its original point of virility in the hands of of wait,

1325
01:26:16,200 --> 01:26:20,880
Speaker 1: wait for it, wait for it, a police officer. So

1326
01:26:21,640 --> 01:26:26,200
Speaker 1: Officer David go Metz, a school resource cop who runs

1327
01:26:26,280 --> 01:26:30,360
Speaker 1: a popular Facebook page under the banner of quote the

1328
01:26:30,400 --> 01:26:37,040
Speaker 1: truth about youths, which is pretty cool. So Gobez works

1329
01:26:37,080 --> 01:26:41,080
Speaker 1: at a school in Idaho, Big shocker Um, and back

1330
01:26:41,120 --> 01:26:44,720
Speaker 1: in September, his Facebook page head over thirty three thousand followers.

1331
01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:49,120
Speaker 1: Now it has over um and he uses it as

1332
01:26:49,120 --> 01:26:53,480
Speaker 1: a sort of information hub for parents, educators, and concerned

1333
01:26:53,600 --> 01:26:56,960
Speaker 1: citizens to talk about the dangers of kids on the

1334
01:26:57,000 --> 01:27:00,960
Speaker 1: Internet and all of that jazz um. You know. Gomez

1335
01:27:01,080 --> 01:27:03,480
Speaker 1: basically tries to be like a kind of like influencer

1336
01:27:03,640 --> 01:27:07,040
Speaker 1: for this whole like a concerned adult corner of the Internet.

1337
01:27:07,479 --> 01:27:10,880
Speaker 1: He writes, these long, long posts about like school life

1338
01:27:10,880 --> 01:27:14,360
Speaker 1: and digital safety, touching on many topics from like how

1339
01:27:14,400 --> 01:27:18,120
Speaker 1: your kids are secretly buying weed and vape pens or

1340
01:27:18,160 --> 01:27:20,000
Speaker 1: like how to tell if your kid is looking at

1341
01:27:20,040 --> 01:27:25,040
Speaker 1: pornographic materials, you know, stuff, stuff of this nature. Um

1342
01:27:25,200 --> 01:27:28,200
Speaker 1: like here, here's, here's here's a few posts from him

1343
01:27:28,200 --> 01:27:31,040
Speaker 1: from from just from just a few days ago. Um.

1344
01:27:31,240 --> 01:27:35,920
Speaker 1: Lots of inappropriate behaviors pushed on Snapchat desensitized kids to reality.

1345
01:27:36,439 --> 01:27:43,280
Speaker 1: Nude photos, drugs, parties, crimes, et cetera. Kids can order

1346
01:27:43,320 --> 01:27:46,040
Speaker 1: almost any illegal drug and have it delivered to them

1347
01:27:46,040 --> 01:27:52,040
Speaker 1: on most any place on Snapchat if only so so

1348
01:27:52,200 --> 01:27:54,280
Speaker 1: he's like, he's like one of these types of guy,

1349
01:27:54,560 --> 01:27:59,080
Speaker 1: like you know you know who? Yeah, yeah, God, if

1350
01:27:59,120 --> 01:28:01,200
Speaker 1: we only lived in that world, I would be on

1351
01:28:01,320 --> 01:28:05,559
Speaker 1: Snapchat so hard. I would be Uh. I love. I

1352
01:28:05,600 --> 01:28:10,160
Speaker 1: love the idea that Snapchat desensitizes kids to reality by

1353
01:28:10,200 --> 01:28:15,880
Speaker 1: telling them about parties and well, I mean any time

1354
01:28:15,880 --> 01:28:19,040
Speaker 1: I look, I have a profound negative mental health reaction

1355
01:28:19,080 --> 01:28:22,240
Speaker 1: whenever someone tells me about a party. So why wouldn't

1356
01:28:22,280 --> 01:28:27,720
Speaker 1: children so so? As the original Devious Licks challenge was

1357
01:28:27,840 --> 01:28:31,160
Speaker 1: dying down near the end of September, On September two,

1358
01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:35,439
Speaker 1: Officer Gomez posted this list of challenges to his thousands

1359
01:28:35,439 --> 01:28:38,679
Speaker 1: of followers. In the next few days, the challenge list

1360
01:28:38,720 --> 01:28:42,519
Speaker 1: from his page circulated around the web, prompting many nervous

1361
01:28:42,600 --> 01:28:47,000
Speaker 1: school emails, terrified newscasts, and ending up actually making the

1362
01:28:47,040 --> 01:28:50,639
Speaker 1: list of challenges go completely viral. UM. When asked about

1363
01:28:50,680 --> 01:28:53,200
Speaker 1: the origin of the list, he said the first place

1364
01:28:53,240 --> 01:28:55,839
Speaker 1: that he had seen it is in a smaller private

1365
01:28:55,880 --> 01:28:59,960
Speaker 1: Facebook group for people working in drug and alcohol enforced

1366
01:29:00,280 --> 01:29:03,720
Speaker 1: and education. He called it a drug recognition group. It's

1367
01:29:03,720 --> 01:29:05,760
Speaker 1: like a group of like cops and stuff, where like,

1368
01:29:06,160 --> 01:29:09,760
Speaker 1: I found this bag of leaves, what what is it?

1369
01:29:09,960 --> 01:29:12,559
Speaker 1: Can can I can I arrest this person? It's like

1370
01:29:12,560 --> 01:29:14,559
Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's it's these people who like, yeah,

1371
01:29:14,800 --> 01:29:19,240
Speaker 1: post random stuff to figure out what drugs are looking at. UM. So,

1372
01:29:19,360 --> 01:29:23,120
Speaker 1: he claims he first saw it in this Facebook group UM,

1373
01:29:23,160 --> 01:29:25,519
Speaker 1: but admitted that he was unsure if it had actually

1374
01:29:25,560 --> 01:29:28,919
Speaker 1: alternated from kids or not let let alone on TikTok.

1375
01:29:29,200 --> 01:29:32,080
Speaker 1: He just posted it because he thought, you know, better

1376
01:29:32,120 --> 01:29:36,400
Speaker 1: safe than sorry. UM. But you know, it's it's funny.

1377
01:29:36,439 --> 01:29:39,679
Speaker 1: Because Officer Gomez's intention may just have been to spread

1378
01:29:39,680 --> 01:29:41,439
Speaker 1: the word about this because he thought it was an

1379
01:29:41,439 --> 01:29:43,840
Speaker 1: actual threat, But it turns out that he was just

1380
01:29:43,880 --> 01:29:46,080
Speaker 1: the one that gave it online life in the first place.

1381
01:29:47,120 --> 01:29:50,800
Speaker 1: So so yeah. But for like the actual origin of it,

1382
01:29:50,880 --> 01:29:53,080
Speaker 1: like like for it actually came up, as best as

1383
01:29:53,120 --> 01:29:55,800
Speaker 1: we can tell, um it seems to It seems to

1384
01:29:55,840 --> 01:30:00,519
Speaker 1: have stem from a school in California. A principle claims

1385
01:30:00,640 --> 01:30:03,640
Speaker 1: that a student sent them this list I'll be I'll

1386
01:30:03,680 --> 01:30:06,680
Speaker 1: be at a slightly more a vulglar version more in

1387
01:30:06,720 --> 01:30:09,320
Speaker 1: line with how kids kind of talk now. The teacher

1388
01:30:09,360 --> 01:30:11,960
Speaker 1: then uploaded it to a teacher Facebook group. It was

1389
01:30:12,000 --> 01:30:15,040
Speaker 1: then shared to this drug recognition group of Officer Gomez,

1390
01:30:15,240 --> 01:30:18,800
Speaker 1: and then Gomez or someone along this process rewrote it

1391
01:30:18,840 --> 01:30:22,080
Speaker 1: to add the weird like boomer Jen's like like like

1392
01:30:22,120 --> 01:30:25,800
Speaker 1: a nineties cool kid language, and then Gomez posted it

1393
01:30:26,200 --> 01:30:29,480
Speaker 1: and then that results in like the cool kid's attitude,

1394
01:30:29,840 --> 01:30:33,800
Speaker 1: and then he posted it goes viral. But there's no

1395
01:30:33,840 --> 01:30:35,800
Speaker 1: evidence that it was ever on TikTok like at all,

1396
01:30:36,000 --> 01:30:38,479
Speaker 1: like this we this No, I think it's not actually

1397
01:30:38,840 --> 01:30:43,479
Speaker 1: on TikTok until the cop posts it. So the other

1398
01:30:43,520 --> 01:30:46,439
Speaker 1: funny thing is that all of these slapping incidents reported

1399
01:30:46,640 --> 01:30:49,280
Speaker 1: on the news, including the one that resulted in an arrest,

1400
01:30:50,040 --> 01:30:51,880
Speaker 1: also turns out to have nothing to do with the

1401
01:30:51,960 --> 01:30:54,120
Speaker 1: challenge list or TikTok. It was just a regular like

1402
01:30:54,160 --> 01:30:57,000
Speaker 1: interpersonal conflict between a student and a teacher, because like

1403
01:30:57,479 --> 01:31:00,280
Speaker 1: that happens, like that happens just like every once in

1404
01:31:00,320 --> 01:31:03,599
Speaker 1: a while like that. But it had nothing to do

1405
01:31:03,640 --> 01:31:07,360
Speaker 1: with TikTok. According to the school and according to the police,

1406
01:31:07,520 --> 01:31:11,640
Speaker 1: we had an investigation. A substitute teacher choke slam one

1407
01:31:11,680 --> 01:31:13,679
Speaker 1: of the kids in my class, and we didn't even

1408
01:31:13,720 --> 01:31:16,240
Speaker 1: have a TikTok. We barely had the internet back then.

1409
01:31:17,400 --> 01:31:20,000
Speaker 1: It was a pretty good day at school. The principle

1410
01:31:20,040 --> 01:31:22,000
Speaker 1: had to come in and apologize. It was very fun.

1411
01:31:23,479 --> 01:31:27,960
Speaker 1: That's that sounds great. It was great. Yeah, so uh

1412
01:31:28,640 --> 01:31:32,519
Speaker 1: so yeah, like in the end, we're gonna the full

1413
01:31:32,640 --> 01:31:35,120
Speaker 1: arc of this right starts in September with the actual

1414
01:31:35,280 --> 01:31:37,600
Speaker 1: real devious licks that that that that did had, that

1415
01:31:37,640 --> 01:31:40,160
Speaker 1: did exist. It was on TikTok, but it was just

1416
01:31:40,280 --> 01:31:44,559
Speaker 1: you know, stealing stuff from bathrooms, uh it, and and

1417
01:31:44,560 --> 01:31:47,120
Speaker 1: and then eventually kind of just like making bathrooms into

1418
01:31:47,120 --> 01:31:51,679
Speaker 1: a mess. Um So, but this this this takes off,

1419
01:31:52,200 --> 01:31:55,200
Speaker 1: it's it goes, it goes, it goes pretty pretty viral.

1420
01:31:55,600 --> 01:31:58,240
Speaker 1: Then TikTok starts to crack down on it, and after

1421
01:31:58,320 --> 01:32:01,120
Speaker 1: like three to four weeks the memes eyes it's it's

1422
01:32:01,160 --> 01:32:03,799
Speaker 1: you know, people, people are bored. There's too much enforcement.

1423
01:32:03,840 --> 01:32:06,439
Speaker 1: It's not fun. It's not fun anymore. And then we

1424
01:32:06,560 --> 01:32:09,800
Speaker 1: have this calendar list of challenges, right, but possibly trying

1425
01:32:09,840 --> 01:32:12,320
Speaker 1: to spin off of like the Dvius licks thing and

1426
01:32:12,479 --> 01:32:15,519
Speaker 1: glaman from the previous trend, or it was perhaps just

1427
01:32:15,560 --> 01:32:18,960
Speaker 1: written as like, uh, like a non serious joke. But

1428
01:32:19,000 --> 01:32:21,400
Speaker 1: the thing is that like it's not actually found on TikTok. Right,

1429
01:32:21,520 --> 01:32:24,479
Speaker 1: So even if this list was originally made by a kid, uh,

1430
01:32:24,560 --> 01:32:27,240
Speaker 1: it's it was not known by other kids, uh on

1431
01:32:27,560 --> 01:32:31,040
Speaker 1: a national level, either online or in person. But where

1432
01:32:31,040 --> 01:32:33,000
Speaker 1: it does get a visibility is through adults, and not

1433
01:32:33,080 --> 01:32:36,040
Speaker 1: on TikTok, but on Facebook, initially being passed around by

1434
01:32:36,080 --> 01:32:39,120
Speaker 1: teachers and school administrators and other adults run on the

1435
01:32:39,120 --> 01:32:43,320
Speaker 1: Facebook platform and really accelerating from there, right, we have

1436
01:32:43,600 --> 01:32:46,280
Speaker 1: we have we we have Gomez and then it's all

1437
01:32:46,280 --> 01:32:49,240
Speaker 1: over Facebook, it's all over Instagram, it's all over news articles,

1438
01:32:49,280 --> 01:32:52,919
Speaker 1: TV stations and eventually does go eventually does get to TikTok,

1439
01:32:53,080 --> 01:32:54,800
Speaker 1: but not with kids talking about it instead of with

1440
01:32:54,800 --> 01:32:58,439
Speaker 1: teachers talking about it. But at this point, the story

1441
01:32:58,479 --> 01:33:02,120
Speaker 1: of the TikTok slap a teacher challenge was just too

1442
01:33:02,360 --> 01:33:05,759
Speaker 1: like enticing, right. It had like enough of a grain

1443
01:33:05,800 --> 01:33:08,639
Speaker 1: of truth by piggybacking off of the real devious licks,

1444
01:33:09,320 --> 01:33:11,439
Speaker 1: but it was able to grow into this entire false

1445
01:33:11,479 --> 01:33:15,000
Speaker 1: reality because there were enough ingredients for a good story.

1446
01:33:15,160 --> 01:33:17,440
Speaker 1: And that's where you like perceptions of truth really flourishing

1447
01:33:17,920 --> 01:33:23,080
Speaker 1: is good stories. Um. And then we found out a

1448
01:33:23,120 --> 01:33:26,799
Speaker 1: few weeks ago, Um, there was there was this article

1449
01:33:26,920 --> 01:33:32,040
Speaker 1: by Taylor Lawrence Uh in the Washington Post that there

1450
01:33:32,040 --> 01:33:34,120
Speaker 1: actually may have been some kind of behind the scenes

1451
01:33:34,120 --> 01:33:37,719
Speaker 1: factory making this trend to go as viral as it did. Um.

1452
01:33:37,960 --> 01:33:40,800
Speaker 1: And we will we will get into that after after this,

1453
01:33:40,920 --> 01:33:43,920
Speaker 1: after the sad break. So have fun listening to these

1454
01:33:43,960 --> 01:33:47,960
Speaker 1: ads and then we will talk about the behind the

1455
01:33:48,040 --> 01:33:54,559
Speaker 1: seams of making these these false online trends. Hello, we

1456
01:33:54,600 --> 01:33:58,080
Speaker 1: are back. So it turns out lots of lots of

1457
01:33:58,120 --> 01:34:01,280
Speaker 1: there's lots of lots of facury happening, uh, to to make,

1458
01:34:01,320 --> 01:34:04,160
Speaker 1: to make, to make, to make narratives, to make stories, right,

1459
01:34:04,600 --> 01:34:08,599
Speaker 1: it's a all you know, turns out that not everything

1460
01:34:08,600 --> 01:34:11,960
Speaker 1: you read on the internet is true. Uh, pretty pretty

1461
01:34:11,960 --> 01:34:16,360
Speaker 1: shocking revelation here. So it came out a few weeks

1462
01:34:16,360 --> 01:34:20,840
Speaker 1: ago that um, Facebook was actually paying one of the

1463
01:34:20,840 --> 01:34:24,360
Speaker 1: biggest Republican consulting firms in the country to orchestrate a

1464
01:34:24,439 --> 01:34:29,680
Speaker 1: national campaign to turn the public opinion uh negatively towards TikTok.

1465
01:34:31,040 --> 01:34:35,720
Speaker 1: The campaign was it was placing it include placing like

1466
01:34:35,720 --> 01:34:39,080
Speaker 1: op eds and letters, two editors of like, you know,

1467
01:34:39,680 --> 01:34:45,479
Speaker 1: major major news outlets, promoting of false false stories about

1468
01:34:45,600 --> 01:34:49,880
Speaker 1: about like the growth of alleged TikTok trends that actually

1469
01:34:49,880 --> 01:34:52,519
Speaker 1: had started on Facebook, and then you know, trying to

1470
01:34:52,600 --> 01:34:56,479
Speaker 1: push reporters and politicians into helping them, you know, damage

1471
01:34:56,600 --> 01:34:59,960
Speaker 1: the perception of TikTok on like a nationwide level. Eventually.

1472
01:35:00,120 --> 01:35:03,400
Speaker 1: You know, Facebook was obviously funding this because you know,

1473
01:35:03,439 --> 01:35:08,280
Speaker 1: TikTok is their biggest competitor at the moment. So it's

1474
01:35:08,280 --> 01:35:10,960
Speaker 1: a it's actually pretty interesting. It's so it's it's it's

1475
01:35:10,960 --> 01:35:16,839
Speaker 1: it's with this Republican digital uh consulting firm called Targeted Victory.

1476
01:35:16,960 --> 01:35:19,880
Speaker 1: So this was the thing that Facebook was actually paying

1477
01:35:19,920 --> 01:35:25,040
Speaker 1: for to to to prompt these false stories. Uh. Targeted

1478
01:35:25,120 --> 01:35:30,520
Speaker 1: Victory has been routinely working for Facebook for over the years. Um,

1479
01:35:30,560 --> 01:35:33,439
Speaker 1: you know, they were they were involved in the sixteen

1480
01:35:33,880 --> 01:35:39,200
Speaker 1: congressional hearings UM around Facebook doing stuff like with like

1481
01:35:39,240 --> 01:35:41,360
Speaker 1: election medal e stuff, you know, all the stuff related

1482
01:35:41,360 --> 01:35:44,720
Speaker 1: to like Cambridge Analytica. They were, they were had a

1483
01:35:44,720 --> 01:35:46,599
Speaker 1: small part to play in that kind of thing as well.

1484
01:35:47,040 --> 01:35:50,920
Speaker 1: So they also received a lot of Republican funding. Um,

1485
01:35:51,040 --> 01:35:53,759
Speaker 1: they got a thing over over two d and thirty

1486
01:35:54,040 --> 01:35:58,719
Speaker 1: seven million dollars according to data compiled by open Secrets,

1487
01:35:59,240 --> 01:36:02,599
Speaker 1: which is ah, it's uh that biggest biggest payments came

1488
01:36:02,600 --> 01:36:06,799
Speaker 1: from a national GOP congressional committee uh in America First Action,

1489
01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:11,080
Speaker 1: which is of a super pac ran by pro Trump folks.

1490
01:36:12,439 --> 01:36:14,519
Speaker 1: So that this is this is the group that was

1491
01:36:14,640 --> 01:36:16,080
Speaker 1: that was doing a lot of the behind the scenes

1492
01:36:16,080 --> 01:36:22,120
Speaker 1: stuff to specifically tai TikTok onto onto onto making it

1493
01:36:22,160 --> 01:36:25,160
Speaker 1: look bad, to specifically make Facebook look good and push

1494
01:36:25,200 --> 01:36:28,120
Speaker 1: people more onto Facebook. When this article first dropped, I know,

1495
01:36:28,520 --> 01:36:31,639
Speaker 1: Robert you said that, hey, this is a interesting, interesting

1496
01:36:31,640 --> 01:36:33,599
Speaker 1: little thing that it's probably worth talking about in terms

1497
01:36:33,640 --> 01:36:37,120
Speaker 1: of how it affects politics and social media and like

1498
01:36:37,160 --> 01:36:40,760
Speaker 1: the intersection thereof yeah, maybe a little bit, so a

1499
01:36:40,800 --> 01:36:42,720
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of the news dropped about this

1500
01:36:43,240 --> 01:36:47,839
Speaker 1: because of employees with the firm were tasked to undermine

1501
01:36:47,840 --> 01:36:50,720
Speaker 1: TikTok through nationwide media and while being campaign and then

1502
01:36:51,000 --> 01:36:54,320
Speaker 1: lots of their internal emails for this effort were shared

1503
01:36:54,320 --> 01:36:56,000
Speaker 1: with Washington Post. So this is this is how we

1504
01:36:56,080 --> 01:36:59,160
Speaker 1: kind of fed out about this more recently, their task

1505
01:36:59,400 --> 01:37:02,040
Speaker 1: was to quote get the message out that well, meta

1506
01:37:02,400 --> 01:37:06,439
Speaker 1: Facebook is the current punching bag. TikTok is the real threat,

1507
01:37:06,560 --> 01:37:08,880
Speaker 1: especially as a fourign non app that is number one

1508
01:37:08,880 --> 01:37:11,880
Speaker 1: and sharing data that young teens are using, according to

1509
01:37:11,880 --> 01:37:13,439
Speaker 1: the director of the firm. So this is that's the

1510
01:37:13,479 --> 01:37:15,200
Speaker 1: type of stuff they're talking about behind the scenes in

1511
01:37:15,320 --> 01:37:19,000
Speaker 1: terms of how they're trying to push push stuff to

1512
01:37:19,120 --> 01:37:22,439
Speaker 1: get people stopped talking about how bad Facebook is. Because

1513
01:37:22,439 --> 01:37:24,679
Speaker 1: this is also right after all of like the Facebook

1514
01:37:24,680 --> 01:37:26,840
Speaker 1: Bright part stuff was happening in terms of how much

1515
01:37:26,880 --> 01:37:31,800
Speaker 1: Facebook pushes extremist content um to you know, boomers and

1516
01:37:31,840 --> 01:37:34,920
Speaker 1: stuff um. And then the other thing that they were

1517
01:37:34,960 --> 01:37:40,320
Speaker 1: doing was specifically trying to craft messaging to get bills

1518
01:37:40,920 --> 01:37:46,280
Speaker 1: past and try to get attorneys general to to focus

1519
01:37:46,360 --> 01:37:50,800
Speaker 1: on to focus on this too, launch investigations into how

1520
01:37:50,880 --> 01:37:55,160
Speaker 1: like TikTok harms children and teens. Um and that protactually

1521
01:37:55,240 --> 01:37:57,160
Speaker 1: was successful, so you can you can look at the

1522
01:37:57,200 --> 01:38:00,639
Speaker 1: emails talking about this plan, and then soon after there

1523
01:38:00,720 --> 01:38:03,160
Speaker 1: was actually a coalition of a state attorney general to

1524
01:38:03,280 --> 01:38:06,080
Speaker 1: launch a probe into whether TikTok is harmful to children

1525
01:38:06,080 --> 01:38:08,240
Speaker 1: and teens, So you can actually look at the behind

1526
01:38:08,240 --> 01:38:09,880
Speaker 1: the scenes stuff that they were trying to do and

1527
01:38:09,880 --> 01:38:12,839
Speaker 1: then see how fast they were successful in doing this stuff.

1528
01:38:13,240 --> 01:38:16,400
Speaker 1: And all. This also comes at the point that Facebook

1529
01:38:16,479 --> 01:38:21,040
Speaker 1: was for the first time actually losing users, and as

1530
01:38:21,080 --> 01:38:23,280
Speaker 1: soon as TikTok was launched and got so so much

1531
01:38:23,320 --> 01:38:25,760
Speaker 1: more popular and also took down a whole bunch of

1532
01:38:25,880 --> 01:38:29,280
Speaker 1: users from from Instagram, which was also owned by Facebook obviously,

1533
01:38:29,560 --> 01:38:32,880
Speaker 1: so there's there's a Facebook. Researchers said that teens were

1534
01:38:32,880 --> 01:38:37,000
Speaker 1: spending about three times it's more time on TikTok than Instagram. Um.

1535
01:38:37,040 --> 01:38:38,479
Speaker 1: And this is this is all part of the same

1536
01:38:38,560 --> 01:38:41,280
Speaker 1: kind of overall effort to both like do stuff to

1537
01:38:41,320 --> 01:38:44,439
Speaker 1: influence elections in politics, but also just do stuff to

1538
01:38:44,560 --> 01:38:49,920
Speaker 1: make kids think Facebook is cool, which good good luck

1539
01:38:50,000 --> 01:38:53,200
Speaker 1: with that one. Um. Then in terms of like the

1540
01:38:53,240 --> 01:38:56,519
Speaker 1: devious licks stuff. Uh. In in other emails that that

1541
01:38:56,560 --> 01:38:59,360
Speaker 1: were that that were leaked, Uh, we got we got

1542
01:38:59,360 --> 01:39:04,400
Speaker 1: a targetedctory people urging their partners to push false stories

1543
01:39:04,640 --> 01:39:07,080
Speaker 1: to look or you know, stories that are sometimes tied

1544
01:39:07,120 --> 01:39:11,479
Speaker 1: in truth but amplifying them, um, tying TikTok to various

1545
01:39:11,520 --> 01:39:15,160
Speaker 1: like dangerous, dangerous trends, you know, in terms of like

1546
01:39:15,200 --> 01:39:18,360
Speaker 1: save the children rhetoric. Right, this idea that faced that

1547
01:39:18,360 --> 01:39:21,080
Speaker 1: that TikTok is harmful to the well being of kids.

1548
01:39:21,560 --> 01:39:24,400
Speaker 1: One of the emails has has a line here saying

1549
01:39:24,439 --> 01:39:27,080
Speaker 1: that the dream would be to get stories with headlines

1550
01:39:27,120 --> 01:39:30,559
Speaker 1: like from dances to danger how TikTok has become the

1551
01:39:30,560 --> 01:39:34,240
Speaker 1: most harmful social media space for kids. So that's the

1552
01:39:34,280 --> 01:39:39,280
Speaker 1: type of headlines they're like trying to push. Yeah, it's

1553
01:39:41,240 --> 01:39:43,240
Speaker 1: one of the things that they do is trying to

1554
01:39:43,240 --> 01:39:46,960
Speaker 1: amplify negative TikTok coverage. They have the schoogle document titled

1555
01:39:47,320 --> 01:39:51,719
Speaker 1: bad TikTok Clips, which was shared internally and included links

1556
01:39:51,760 --> 01:39:55,679
Speaker 1: to dubious news stories sending TikTok as the original point

1557
01:39:55,760 --> 01:40:01,400
Speaker 1: of various like dangerous teen trends. Um. And they were

1558
01:40:01,520 --> 01:40:03,400
Speaker 1: they were trying to like take these stories and push

1559
01:40:03,439 --> 01:40:05,679
Speaker 1: them out through other means, you know, so on Facebook

1560
01:40:05,680 --> 01:40:08,080
Speaker 1: and stuff. Right to take any instance of this and

1561
01:40:08,160 --> 01:40:11,439
Speaker 1: boost it like inorganically. Right. It's people's jobs to use

1562
01:40:11,560 --> 01:40:15,000
Speaker 1: social media to affect public opinion. So one trend that

1563
01:40:15,080 --> 01:40:20,120
Speaker 1: targeted Victory specifically was enhancing was the devious licks challenge UH,

1564
01:40:20,800 --> 01:40:24,120
Speaker 1: including the initial one to vandalize the school property UM.

1565
01:40:24,280 --> 01:40:28,639
Speaker 1: Through the bad TikTok Clips document, the firm was pushing

1566
01:40:28,680 --> 01:40:31,679
Speaker 1: stories about the devious les challenge across in in local

1567
01:40:31,720 --> 01:40:35,920
Speaker 1: media across Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Rhode Island, and Washington d C.

1568
01:40:36,479 --> 01:40:38,080
Speaker 1: I do find it interesting that they have a lot

1569
01:40:38,080 --> 01:40:41,040
Speaker 1: of these ones closer to Washington, d C. To specifically

1570
01:40:41,080 --> 01:40:45,640
Speaker 1: affect politicians, like they're doing stuff to amplify stuff to

1571
01:40:45,760 --> 01:40:50,880
Speaker 1: convince politicians specifically to start making political changes. UM. And

1572
01:40:51,000 --> 01:40:55,720
Speaker 1: this actually led Senator Richard Bluementhal, a Democrat from Connecticut,

1573
01:40:55,760 --> 01:40:58,680
Speaker 1: to write a letter in September calling on TikTok executives

1574
01:40:58,720 --> 01:41:02,040
Speaker 1: to testify in front of US Senate Committee UM, saying

1575
01:41:02,080 --> 01:41:04,479
Speaker 1: that the app has been repeatedly misused and abused to

1576
01:41:04,479 --> 01:41:07,880
Speaker 1: promote behavior and actions that encourage harmful and destructive acts.

1577
01:41:08,520 --> 01:41:12,080
Speaker 1: So yeah, like it worked. Like they're specifically targeting the

1578
01:41:12,120 --> 01:41:14,680
Speaker 1: type of news that politicians will see in areas that

1579
01:41:14,720 --> 01:41:17,599
Speaker 1: politicians live to get them to start trying to affect

1580
01:41:17,760 --> 01:41:21,200
Speaker 1: change around social media, specifically the social media that kids

1581
01:41:21,320 --> 01:41:25,600
Speaker 1: use and amplifying the social media that boomers use. Facebook,

1582
01:41:25,640 --> 01:41:29,080
Speaker 1: which is already is like a sesspool of spreading conservative disinformation.

1583
01:41:29,520 --> 01:41:31,599
Speaker 1: That's like the entire that's the entire bit that they're

1584
01:41:31,600 --> 01:41:35,799
Speaker 1: trying to do here. Um. And so they were working

1585
01:41:35,800 --> 01:41:39,559
Speaker 1: on the original September challenge. Also in October, Targeted Victory

1586
01:41:39,720 --> 01:41:42,000
Speaker 1: was working to spread the rumors of the slap a

1587
01:41:42,040 --> 01:41:44,920
Speaker 1: Teacher TikTok challenge, which as we know, was not actually

1588
01:41:44,920 --> 01:41:48,800
Speaker 1: a TikTok challenge. Um, but they were doing Uh. They

1589
01:41:48,800 --> 01:41:53,240
Speaker 1: were also contributing to inflating this this um this trend,

1590
01:41:53,720 --> 01:41:56,800
Speaker 1: which is funny because obviously they were being paid by Facebook. Uh,

1591
01:41:56,880 --> 01:41:59,760
Speaker 1: they were being paid by the gop um and you know,

1592
01:42:00,040 --> 01:42:05,040
Speaker 1: Facebook is the place where this actually started. Uh yeah,

1593
01:42:05,520 --> 01:42:07,360
Speaker 1: so you know, but like again with every if if

1594
01:42:07,360 --> 01:42:09,160
Speaker 1: you can tie anything to like a little bit of truth,

1595
01:42:09,200 --> 01:42:12,200
Speaker 1: it makes whatever story you're trying to make so much

1596
01:42:12,240 --> 01:42:16,000
Speaker 1: more impactful. Right, The firm was was careful to use

1597
01:42:16,000 --> 01:42:19,000
Speaker 1: both like genuine concerns and then just amplify them or

1598
01:42:19,080 --> 01:42:23,519
Speaker 1: exaggerate them into like unfounded anxieties, uh to to you know,

1599
01:42:23,600 --> 01:42:27,200
Speaker 1: get people to start questioning the safety of these of

1600
01:42:27,280 --> 01:42:31,360
Speaker 1: these applications. So it's a it's a it's actually it's

1601
01:42:31,360 --> 01:42:33,120
Speaker 1: actually it's like a it's a pretty clever setup that

1602
01:42:33,200 --> 01:42:35,840
Speaker 1: they have. They have going here, and they've been really successful.

1603
01:42:35,960 --> 01:42:39,000
Speaker 1: Like it's it's like, you know, the the the October

1604
01:42:39,120 --> 01:42:42,360
Speaker 1: devious lex trend uh with like this with slap teacher

1605
01:42:42,680 --> 01:42:47,519
Speaker 1: was extremely extremely, extremely successful in terms of how they

1606
01:42:47,560 --> 01:42:50,759
Speaker 1: affect what is seen as truth and how and how

1607
01:42:50,800 --> 01:42:53,640
Speaker 1: how much news story and how much news coverage was

1608
01:42:53,760 --> 01:42:57,800
Speaker 1: just kind of unconsciously and just mindlessly repeating the stuff

1609
01:42:57,800 --> 01:43:02,000
Speaker 1: that they've heard. The other funny thing that that target

1610
01:43:02,000 --> 01:43:07,919
Speaker 1: Targeted Victory does is, uh, they they help write letters

1611
01:43:08,040 --> 01:43:11,800
Speaker 1: that are from concerned parents quote unquote that gets sent

1612
01:43:11,880 --> 01:43:14,479
Speaker 1: out to newspapers to be published in their like letters

1613
01:43:14,520 --> 01:43:21,920
Speaker 1: to the editors. Yeah, so they specifically try to write

1614
01:43:22,040 --> 01:43:25,200
Speaker 1: op eds targeting TikTok and then place them around the country,

1615
01:43:25,479 --> 01:43:29,240
Speaker 1: especially in key congressional districts. UM On March twelve, a

1616
01:43:29,320 --> 01:43:32,599
Speaker 1: letter to the editor that Targeted Victory officials helped write

1617
01:43:33,120 --> 01:43:36,000
Speaker 1: ran in the in the Denver post Um. The letter

1618
01:43:36,160 --> 01:43:39,840
Speaker 1: said it was from a concerned new parent and it

1619
01:43:39,960 --> 01:43:43,200
Speaker 1: claimed that TikTok was harmful to children's mental health, raising

1620
01:43:43,240 --> 01:43:46,120
Speaker 1: concerns over it's like, you know, data privacy, and that

1621
01:43:46,200 --> 01:43:50,800
Speaker 1: many people suspect that China is deliberately collecting behavioral data

1622
01:43:50,880 --> 01:43:55,639
Speaker 1: on our kids. They're trying to hack our children's brains.

1623
01:43:56,080 --> 01:43:59,840
Speaker 1: The letter also issued support for Colorado Attorney General Phil

1624
01:44:00,439 --> 01:44:05,439
Speaker 1: Wiser wise weight Weezers. I'm gonna say Weezer yep, yep, yep, yep,

1625
01:44:05,600 --> 01:44:12,439
Speaker 1: Phil Weezers, famed founder of the band Weezer. They were Yeah,

1626
01:44:12,439 --> 01:44:15,760
Speaker 1: But the letter issued support for him, uh, including his

1627
01:44:15,840 --> 01:44:19,360
Speaker 1: choice to join a coalition of of attorney general investigating

1628
01:44:19,360 --> 01:44:23,439
Speaker 1: TikTok's impact on American youths. So yeah. There was a

1629
01:44:23,520 --> 01:44:28,000
Speaker 1: very similar letter UH, drafted by Targeted Victory again that

1630
01:44:28,080 --> 01:44:31,080
Speaker 1: ran in in other other kind of smaller local papers

1631
01:44:31,120 --> 01:44:34,080
Speaker 1: throughout the country trying to link negative news stories about

1632
01:44:34,080 --> 01:44:38,680
Speaker 1: TikTok that Targeted Victory had specifically sought to amplify. Some

1633
01:44:38,760 --> 01:44:40,960
Speaker 1: of the letters that were getting circulated were signed by

1634
01:44:40,960 --> 01:44:43,800
Speaker 1: like members at the Democratic Party. They were, they were,

1635
01:44:43,800 --> 01:44:46,840
Speaker 1: they were signed by various politicians in terms of like, no,

1636
01:44:47,040 --> 01:44:48,880
Speaker 1: trying to create this thing that looks grassroots to the

1637
01:44:48,920 --> 01:44:51,280
Speaker 1: spread out and be like, hey, we have these concerns.

1638
01:44:51,560 --> 01:44:54,040
Speaker 1: Do you want to do you endorse our concerns so

1639
01:44:54,080 --> 01:44:56,599
Speaker 1: then they can then make it seem way more legit

1640
01:44:56,640 --> 01:45:03,120
Speaker 1: than just like a concerned parent. Uh it it's pretty good. Um.

1641
01:45:03,120 --> 01:45:05,559
Speaker 1: You know an email sent a few weeks ago, uh,

1642
01:45:05,600 --> 01:45:08,840
Speaker 1: targeted Victory asked their teams to be prepared to share

1643
01:45:08,880 --> 01:45:11,760
Speaker 1: the opense that you're working on right now. Uh, Colorado

1644
01:45:11,760 --> 01:45:13,560
Speaker 1: and Iowa, can you talk? Can you talk about the

1645
01:45:13,600 --> 01:45:15,880
Speaker 1: TikTok opeds? You got? You? You you both you, you

1646
01:45:16,160 --> 01:45:19,439
Speaker 1: both got. So they're specifically targeting districts where the Senate

1647
01:45:19,880 --> 01:45:24,240
Speaker 1: um Senate like challenges are actually more of a more

1648
01:45:24,479 --> 01:45:26,960
Speaker 1: more of a toss up. So specifically trying to do

1649
01:45:27,000 --> 01:45:30,040
Speaker 1: this whole TikTok is dangerous to the kids thing in

1650
01:45:30,080 --> 01:45:34,479
Speaker 1: these in these places. It's ah, yeah, it's a it's

1651
01:45:34,520 --> 01:45:37,759
Speaker 1: it's it's pretty it's pretty fun. Because none of these letters,

1652
01:45:37,840 --> 01:45:40,120
Speaker 1: none of these op eds, if you read them, there's

1653
01:45:40,160 --> 01:45:43,080
Speaker 1: no indication that Facebook is funding them. There's no indication

1654
01:45:43,080 --> 01:45:45,720
Speaker 1: that the GOP is funding them. Um right, it's that

1655
01:45:45,800 --> 01:45:48,040
Speaker 1: is the it is the whole like astro AstroTurf thing, right,

1656
01:45:48,080 --> 01:45:49,720
Speaker 1: that is, that is the entire idea is that they

1657
01:45:49,760 --> 01:45:54,000
Speaker 1: look they look totally legit. So anyway, that was that

1658
01:45:54,120 --> 01:45:57,200
Speaker 1: was my, my, my, Those those are right notes in

1659
01:45:57,320 --> 01:46:00,759
Speaker 1: terms of the what the dv slick and the SABA

1660
01:46:00,800 --> 01:46:03,240
Speaker 1: teacher thing actually was, and then how there was all

1661
01:46:03,280 --> 01:46:05,599
Speaker 1: this behind the scenes fac are you trying to inflate

1662
01:46:05,640 --> 01:46:08,920
Speaker 1: it and how it's specifically getting inflated to tie into

1663
01:46:09,000 --> 01:46:13,479
Speaker 1: like local elections that are happening in the mid terms. Um, yeah,

1664
01:46:13,600 --> 01:46:16,040
Speaker 1: what what thoughts? What thoughts do y'all have on on

1665
01:46:16,120 --> 01:46:21,240
Speaker 1: these on these fun, fun little disinformation rackets they have

1666
01:46:21,479 --> 01:46:25,200
Speaker 1: they have going on. We might do like another full

1667
01:46:25,240 --> 01:46:27,120
Speaker 1: episode this at some point. But there's there's an interesting

1668
01:46:27,160 --> 01:46:30,760
Speaker 1: angle here where Facebook was sort of taking the China

1669
01:46:30,800 --> 01:46:32,439
Speaker 1: angle on this a lot, and it's like, yeah, it

1670
01:46:32,520 --> 01:46:34,519
Speaker 1: comes with less than this, but yeah you in this.

1671
01:46:34,640 --> 01:46:38,760
Speaker 1: They they founded this, uh, they founded this advocacy group

1672
01:46:38,760 --> 01:46:42,360
Speaker 1: called I think it's American Edge, where they have all

1673
01:46:42,360 --> 01:46:45,160
Speaker 1: these things that are like, uh that was like them

1674
01:46:45,200 --> 01:46:47,160
Speaker 1: in a bunch of weapons manufacturers like found in this

1675
01:46:47,200 --> 01:46:50,920
Speaker 1: lobbying group, and they keep saying things like, oh, China

1676
01:46:51,000 --> 01:46:55,120
Speaker 1: is threatening our competitive edge, so we can't do antitrust legislation.

1677
01:46:55,120 --> 01:46:57,839
Speaker 1: If we do anti trust legislation, the Russia China alliance

1678
01:46:57,840 --> 01:46:59,920
Speaker 1: will like defeat the US. And so it's interesting. That's

1679
01:46:59,920 --> 01:47:03,680
Speaker 1: like there don't know if Facebook seems to have like

1680
01:47:05,120 --> 01:47:07,080
Speaker 1: well okay, so so they have this problem where like

1681
01:47:07,120 --> 01:47:11,559
Speaker 1: the metaverse stuff just flops and they're like, oh no,

1682
01:47:11,600 --> 01:47:14,280
Speaker 1: we need to make money. And it's like, well, okay,

1683
01:47:14,320 --> 01:47:18,040
Speaker 1: so you know there's the the the two ways to

1684
01:47:18,040 --> 01:47:20,720
Speaker 1: make money, or you create something that people want to use,

1685
01:47:20,840 --> 01:47:24,720
Speaker 1: and that's hard. That's hard. They did that once and

1686
01:47:24,760 --> 01:47:28,439
Speaker 1: then they accidentally turned it into an engine that breaks

1687
01:47:28,439 --> 01:47:32,320
Speaker 1: democracy and accelerates ethnic cleansings. So you don't want them.

1688
01:47:32,360 --> 01:47:35,559
Speaker 1: You don't want them trying to make another new thing. Yeah. Well,

1689
01:47:35,880 --> 01:47:38,360
Speaker 1: the other thing Target Victory was doing was specifically amplifying

1690
01:47:38,600 --> 01:47:42,839
Speaker 1: pro Facebook content. Yeah, but like how Facebook is supporting

1691
01:47:43,040 --> 01:47:45,559
Speaker 1: local black owned businesses and like all all all that

1692
01:47:45,600 --> 01:47:47,320
Speaker 1: sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah, so you know, you you

1693
01:47:47,439 --> 01:47:48,840
Speaker 1: have that on the one hand, it's like, yeah, they're

1694
01:47:48,840 --> 01:47:51,000
Speaker 1: not they're not doing anything else. And the second way

1695
01:47:51,040 --> 01:47:53,840
Speaker 1: they you that you do this stuff by strategic sabotage

1696
01:47:53,840 --> 01:47:56,160
Speaker 1: of your competition. And this is what Facebook is doing

1697
01:47:56,240 --> 01:47:58,880
Speaker 1: right now is that they've launched basically full on in

1698
01:47:58,960 --> 01:48:02,920
Speaker 1: strategic sabotage angle. They've launched into this sort of like

1699
01:48:02,920 --> 01:48:06,599
Speaker 1: preemptive defense stuff about anti trust being like a, hey,

1700
01:48:06,640 --> 01:48:10,040
Speaker 1: look at China. If we uh, yeah, if we don't

1701
01:48:10,040 --> 01:48:14,640
Speaker 1: have tech monopolies doing genocides, China will have tech monopolies

1702
01:48:14,680 --> 01:48:16,840
Speaker 1: doing genocides. And it's like that's the other funny thing

1703
01:48:16,920 --> 01:48:19,760
Speaker 1: is that whenever Zuckerberg gets accused of trying to create

1704
01:48:19,760 --> 01:48:24,920
Speaker 1: monopolies around social media, he's always like, but TikTok exists,

1705
01:48:26,920 --> 01:48:29,200
Speaker 1: But no, It's it's great because like they they like

1706
01:48:29,240 --> 01:48:32,120
Speaker 1: specifically say this. They their quote is, we need to

1707
01:48:32,120 --> 01:48:34,759
Speaker 1: get the message out that while Facebook is the current

1708
01:48:34,800 --> 01:48:38,160
Speaker 1: punching bag, TikTok is the real threat, especially as a

1709
01:48:38,200 --> 01:48:41,280
Speaker 1: foreign owned app like that. That is that is the

1710
01:48:41,320 --> 01:48:44,160
Speaker 1: actual quote that looks like, yeah, they're specifically doing that

1711
01:48:44,200 --> 01:48:47,000
Speaker 1: exact thing. Yeah, they're the winning ars. That's n phobia

1712
01:48:47,000 --> 01:48:49,400
Speaker 1: angle initially because you can watch them sort of pushing

1713
01:48:49,439 --> 01:48:52,320
Speaker 1: all of the like the political buttons of the last

1714
01:48:52,400 --> 01:48:54,400
Speaker 1: few years. It's like they're they're they're they're they're basically

1715
01:48:54,400 --> 01:48:58,080
Speaker 1: replaying like the Trump like the Trump right stuff, right,

1716
01:48:58,120 --> 01:49:00,280
Speaker 1: so they figure out that rhetoric works. So they're doing Okay,

1717
01:49:00,320 --> 01:49:03,240
Speaker 1: they're doing this sort of like like they're doing sort

1718
01:49:03,240 --> 01:49:06,000
Speaker 1: of anti China's and a phobia. They're doing save the children,

1719
01:49:06,760 --> 01:49:09,200
Speaker 1: they're doing like they're doing all of this like your

1720
01:49:09,240 --> 01:49:12,679
Speaker 1: kids are unsafe stuff and yeah, it's it's working great

1721
01:49:12,720 --> 01:49:17,920
Speaker 1: for them, So this is this is fun. Uh yeah, yeah, no,

1722
01:49:18,080 --> 01:49:21,320
Speaker 1: that's they're they're they're definitely trying yep. I mean, and

1723
01:49:21,760 --> 01:49:25,080
Speaker 1: the specific things that targeted Victory tries to do. The

1724
01:49:25,479 --> 01:49:28,280
Speaker 1: place that's funded by both Facebook and the GOP is

1725
01:49:28,320 --> 01:49:32,720
Speaker 1: that they specialize in Uh. Well, they they say they do.

1726
01:49:32,920 --> 01:49:38,000
Speaker 1: They do crisis practice and corporate affairs offerings uh for

1727
01:49:38,000 --> 01:49:41,400
Speaker 1: for their clients growing need for the issues of management

1728
01:49:41,439 --> 01:49:45,479
Speaker 1: and and executive positioning, saying that it wants to focus

1729
01:49:45,520 --> 01:49:50,120
Speaker 1: on efforts to move towards authentic storytelling with a hyper

1730
01:49:50,200 --> 01:49:53,599
Speaker 1: local approach, so that that is that's all the words

1731
01:49:53,640 --> 01:49:56,480
Speaker 1: they used to talk about how they do grassroots disinformation

1732
01:49:57,200 --> 01:50:02,800
Speaker 1: authentic storytelling with a hyperlocal roach. Yeah, faking letters from

1733
01:50:02,880 --> 01:50:05,879
Speaker 1: parents to local news sites who are hungry for content

1734
01:50:06,000 --> 01:50:09,240
Speaker 1: in order to cause a moral panic about TikTok. Yeah,

1735
01:50:09,520 --> 01:50:12,080
Speaker 1: I mean, on average, people trust their local news way

1736
01:50:12,080 --> 01:50:15,479
Speaker 1: more than they trust their national news. So because they

1737
01:50:15,479 --> 01:50:18,200
Speaker 1: should not, because it's all read by like two companies.

1738
01:50:18,600 --> 01:50:22,559
Speaker 1: Yeah uh so yeah, I mean, but like they have,

1739
01:50:22,600 --> 01:50:24,000
Speaker 1: they have a lot of money. They have, they have

1740
01:50:24,040 --> 01:50:26,840
Speaker 1: a lot of money. It's there, it's they're they're they're

1741
01:50:26,880 --> 01:50:32,240
Speaker 1: one of the biggest recipients of Republican campaigns spending now,

1742
01:50:32,200 --> 01:50:34,719
Speaker 1: they're receiving money from Facebook. They happen for a while,

1743
01:50:34,760 --> 01:50:39,760
Speaker 1: but they're spending. They're spending more money now. Uh yeah,

1744
01:50:39,840 --> 01:50:41,600
Speaker 1: And I think this is a it's really important to

1745
01:50:41,600 --> 01:50:45,400
Speaker 1: be skeptical of online trends because turns out online trends

1746
01:50:45,479 --> 01:50:48,200
Speaker 1: can be pretty astroturfed. I mean, we can look right

1747
01:50:48,200 --> 01:50:50,880
Speaker 1: now at all of the all of like the Groomer stuff. Right.

1748
01:50:51,320 --> 01:50:53,960
Speaker 1: Online trends do not need to be organic. Uh they're

1749
01:50:54,160 --> 01:50:57,280
Speaker 1: like I always say, the next time you feel like

1750
01:50:57,360 --> 01:51:00,000
Speaker 1: you see something on Facebook or Twitter and you feel

1751
01:51:00,160 --> 01:51:03,400
Speaker 1: like you want to share it because it's outrageous, instead

1752
01:51:04,120 --> 01:51:08,240
Speaker 1: just go set off a bomb at a power substation. Okay,

1753
01:51:08,880 --> 01:51:13,479
Speaker 1: just simple ethical behavior that will that that won't play

1754
01:51:13,479 --> 01:51:15,720
Speaker 1: into these people's hands. And in terms of all of

1755
01:51:15,720 --> 01:51:19,960
Speaker 1: the stuff that like with Facebook trying to specifically demonize kids,

1756
01:51:20,000 --> 01:51:24,439
Speaker 1: demonized TikTok um to influence elections, Like, if you're interested

1757
01:51:24,439 --> 01:51:28,400
Speaker 1: in what trends kids are actually into, just just like

1758
01:51:28,439 --> 01:51:31,400
Speaker 1: ask them, like you could talk to them like with

1759
01:51:31,439 --> 01:51:34,320
Speaker 1: like words and like with your mouth and use your

1760
01:51:34,360 --> 01:51:37,479
Speaker 1: like human ears. Uh, because it turns out they will

1761
01:51:37,479 --> 01:51:40,240
Speaker 1: actually explain it. Because yeah, and if just if anyone

1762
01:51:40,280 --> 01:51:44,719
Speaker 1: asked a kid about this list of challenges in like October,

1763
01:51:44,800 --> 01:51:47,400
Speaker 1: they would say, no, that's that's not a thing. That's

1764
01:51:47,439 --> 01:51:50,280
Speaker 1: that's not that seems something like adults are really interested in.

1765
01:51:50,400 --> 01:51:53,360
Speaker 1: But nope, that's not actually a thing. Just assume they're

1766
01:51:53,400 --> 01:51:57,479
Speaker 1: basically the same that kids always are, but with different

1767
01:51:58,479 --> 01:52:01,840
Speaker 1: like technology and ship. Like when I was a kid

1768
01:52:02,520 --> 01:52:05,160
Speaker 1: and our senior class, a bunch of kids conspired to

1769
01:52:05,200 --> 01:52:07,640
Speaker 1: crash a car into the little pond that was on

1770
01:52:07,720 --> 01:52:10,559
Speaker 1: campus because it was destructive and funny. Kids like to

1771
01:52:10,600 --> 01:52:14,120
Speaker 1: do destructive, funny things. Kids don't like to do whatever.

1772
01:52:14,160 --> 01:52:18,719
Speaker 1: April egg bullshit or that's all all of the challenges

1773
01:52:18,760 --> 01:52:21,599
Speaker 1: that are just like sexual assaults. You're like, that's actually

1774
01:52:21,760 --> 01:52:24,840
Speaker 1: not something that a lot of kids are into. It

1775
01:52:24,840 --> 01:52:28,760
Speaker 1: turns out, like think back to being in like like

1776
01:52:28,880 --> 01:52:31,760
Speaker 1: tenth grade, and would you have giggled at this? If so,

1777
01:52:32,080 --> 01:52:35,200
Speaker 1: it's probably a thing some kids have done. Like it's

1778
01:52:35,240 --> 01:52:39,040
Speaker 1: as simple as that. So anyway, with this is the

1779
01:52:39,120 --> 01:52:41,360
Speaker 1: episode we wanted to do specifically on how just like

1780
01:52:42,200 --> 01:52:45,479
Speaker 1: social media disinformation is trying to affect elections, leading to

1781
01:52:45,560 --> 01:52:48,640
Speaker 1: leading to leading into the mid terms. And then tomorrow

1782
01:52:48,720 --> 01:52:51,880
Speaker 1: we will discuss more midterm related stuff with all of

1783
01:52:51,880 --> 01:52:53,400
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff with with all of this like

1784
01:52:53,479 --> 01:52:56,320
Speaker 1: disafmation stuff, TikTok and Facebook stuff all kind of like

1785
01:52:56,520 --> 01:52:58,800
Speaker 1: floating in the back of our minds um as we

1786
01:52:58,840 --> 01:53:01,920
Speaker 1: move on to talking about the midterms and why and

1787
01:53:02,439 --> 01:53:06,719
Speaker 1: how they might you know, affect politics going forward, and

1788
01:53:06,840 --> 01:53:08,800
Speaker 1: you know how they might affect you know, stuff a run,

1789
01:53:08,800 --> 01:53:13,040
Speaker 1: climate change, stuff around different you know, mini collapses, all

1790
01:53:13,080 --> 01:53:15,639
Speaker 1: of that, all that good stuff. So but I think

1791
01:53:15,760 --> 01:53:17,960
Speaker 1: as it looks like we have we have reached the

1792
01:53:17,960 --> 01:53:21,200
Speaker 1: time that we need to do today, So I believe

1793
01:53:21,240 --> 01:53:22,880
Speaker 1: that doesn't for us this week if you want to

1794
01:53:23,040 --> 01:53:24,720
Speaker 1: if you want to do the social media is because hey,

1795
01:53:24,760 --> 01:53:27,840
Speaker 1: after we talked about social media for like fifty minutes. Yeah,

1796
01:53:27,920 --> 01:53:31,439
Speaker 1: let's let's let's let's plug our social media. Uh Twitter

1797
01:53:31,479 --> 01:53:34,360
Speaker 1: and Instagram, Instagram and by Facebook at a cool zone

1798
01:53:34,400 --> 01:53:40,040
Speaker 1: media and happened here pod. Um Yeah anyway, Uh, listen

1799
01:53:40,080 --> 01:54:00,200
Speaker 1: to the kids and don't believe trends. Bye. What it's

1800
01:54:00,280 --> 01:54:03,360
Speaker 1: the horror of dead generations hanging off the backs of

1801
01:54:03,400 --> 01:54:09,720
Speaker 1: my modern everyone society? What do we? What are we

1802
01:54:09,760 --> 01:54:12,240
Speaker 1: doing that? I started a podcast? Are we do your job? Robert?

1803
01:54:13,160 --> 01:54:15,360
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go take five. This is

1804
01:54:15,400 --> 01:54:19,000
Speaker 1: your favorite electoralism podcast. It could happen here. Um, the

1805
01:54:19,080 --> 01:54:22,040
Speaker 1: podcast that says, just vote about it? Come on? You

1806
01:54:22,040 --> 01:54:25,840
Speaker 1: know you voted? Can you vote a little harder? You

1807
01:54:25,880 --> 01:54:29,519
Speaker 1: know if if I could vote right right now, I would.

1808
01:54:29,920 --> 01:54:32,840
Speaker 1: That is how dedicated I am. I know that's everyone

1809
01:54:32,880 --> 01:54:37,520
Speaker 1: says that about you, Garrison, that you're always ready to vote. Oh,

1810
01:54:37,760 --> 01:54:39,440
Speaker 1: we have, we have, we have, we have. We have

1811
01:54:39,480 --> 01:54:42,840
Speaker 1: an update on the TikTok thing, um which we just

1812
01:54:43,160 --> 01:54:47,120
Speaker 1: this this just dropped, um TikTok. Uh. There is now

1813
01:54:47,680 --> 01:54:50,080
Speaker 1: a new I need a new technock account launched to

1814
01:54:50,400 --> 01:54:53,680
Speaker 1: boost Biden with young voters. Um. It already has one

1815
01:54:53,720 --> 01:54:57,040
Speaker 1: hundred fans. Um. This This isn't a joke. This is

1816
01:54:57,080 --> 01:55:00,720
Speaker 1: actually because that sounds like like a b had like

1817
01:55:00,800 --> 01:55:04,080
Speaker 1: a like a Jimmy fallon Saturday Night Live Weekend Update.

1818
01:55:05,120 --> 01:55:10,400
Speaker 1: This is actually completely real. We have we have a

1819
01:55:10,960 --> 01:55:15,360
Speaker 1: government funded, Biden provided TikTok account as lunched, and it

1820
01:55:15,400 --> 01:55:18,760
Speaker 1: has a hundred followers. Guys, it would be funny if like,

1821
01:55:20,240 --> 01:55:22,160
Speaker 1: you know, like the Gravel Institute. But good, they just

1822
01:55:22,200 --> 01:55:24,880
Speaker 1: steered it in really radical directions. So it did start

1823
01:55:24,920 --> 01:55:28,600
Speaker 1: like tweeting about Zerzon and the importance of destroying time.

1824
01:55:31,480 --> 01:55:35,920
Speaker 1: The Biden TikTok account embraces ecological sabotage. I would I

1825
01:55:35,920 --> 01:55:38,200
Speaker 1: would take, I would take I would take government money

1826
01:55:38,240 --> 01:55:40,160
Speaker 1: if they paid me to do that, I'll say it.

1827
01:55:40,440 --> 01:55:43,480
Speaker 1: I'll take government money for a lot of reasons. If

1828
01:55:43,520 --> 01:55:47,520
Speaker 1: they paid me to make an unhinged TikTok account about

1829
01:55:47,520 --> 01:55:49,640
Speaker 1: how the scientists of the police, then yes, I would.

1830
01:55:49,840 --> 01:55:51,960
Speaker 1: I would do that. That's a fun joke for four

1831
01:55:52,000 --> 01:55:54,360
Speaker 1: people listening to this podcast. We're gonna talk about the

1832
01:55:54,400 --> 01:55:59,800
Speaker 1: mid terms. Yeah, we're account Look, the official stance of

1833
01:55:59,800 --> 01:56:04,280
Speaker 1: the mostly anarchists who make this podcast voting is dumb,

1834
01:56:04,600 --> 01:56:09,760
Speaker 1: but uh, it's also bad when certain things happen electorally,

1835
01:56:09,920 --> 01:56:14,520
Speaker 1: like a bunch of insane fascists winning elected office. U.

1836
01:56:14,720 --> 01:56:17,200
Speaker 1: Two things can be true, especially when people are really

1837
01:56:17,240 --> 01:56:20,680
Speaker 1: set on killing transpeople right now, Yeah, that's real problematic

1838
01:56:21,160 --> 01:56:24,200
Speaker 1: hashtag problematic things are gonna have It could happen as

1839
01:56:24,240 --> 01:56:26,880
Speaker 1: a result of the mid terms. I think the by

1840
01:56:27,040 --> 01:56:31,600
Speaker 1: by far predominant media narrative is that the Democrats are

1841
01:56:31,600 --> 01:56:37,360
Speaker 1: heading for a shellacking. Um now, is that actually going

1842
01:56:37,400 --> 01:56:41,600
Speaker 1: to happen? The short answer is, nobody knows, because polling

1843
01:56:42,120 --> 01:56:44,200
Speaker 1: we should all be we should all be accepting at

1844
01:56:44,200 --> 01:56:47,600
Speaker 1: this point that polling is not good at its job generally.

1845
01:56:49,360 --> 01:56:53,320
Speaker 1: So heads up, No one's really sure. Uh, there are

1846
01:56:53,400 --> 01:56:56,720
Speaker 1: certainly Number one, if this is a normal mid term

1847
01:56:56,760 --> 01:57:01,000
Speaker 1: election after a presidential election, Democrat rats should lose a

1848
01:57:01,040 --> 01:57:05,000
Speaker 1: not insubstantial amount of seats because that's just usually what happens.

1849
01:57:05,040 --> 01:57:08,440
Speaker 1: The only time it didn't was the midterm election right

1850
01:57:08,440 --> 01:57:11,960
Speaker 1: after nine eleven, and everyone was out of their minds

1851
01:57:12,000 --> 01:57:15,120
Speaker 1: at that point, so you can't really factor that one

1852
01:57:15,160 --> 01:57:18,760
Speaker 1: into the averages, and nothing like nine eleven has really happened.

1853
01:57:18,800 --> 01:57:21,520
Speaker 1: Like the war in Ukraine is a is a whole thing,

1854
01:57:21,680 --> 01:57:24,000
Speaker 1: but it's also not I'm not I'm saying any evidence

1855
01:57:24,000 --> 01:57:26,920
Speaker 1: that it's causing any kind of like political realignment or

1856
01:57:27,000 --> 01:57:30,680
Speaker 1: affecting support for Joe Biden and any meaning everyone's still

1857
01:57:30,680 --> 01:57:33,600
Speaker 1: pretty economy based in terms of what they're what they

1858
01:57:33,600 --> 01:57:36,360
Speaker 1: claimed to be their biggest factors for voting. The war

1859
01:57:36,400 --> 01:57:40,520
Speaker 1: in Ukraine is a huge deal obviously. Um, We've talked

1860
01:57:40,560 --> 01:57:43,000
Speaker 1: about it a lot on on our shows. But also

1861
01:57:43,440 --> 01:57:46,520
Speaker 1: it's it's foreigners, and Americans don't care about foreigners when

1862
01:57:46,520 --> 01:57:49,800
Speaker 1: it comes to voting. So look, that's just a reality.

1863
01:57:49,880 --> 01:57:52,240
Speaker 1: As a guy who's repeatedly trying to get Americans to

1864
01:57:52,240 --> 01:57:56,480
Speaker 1: care about things happening in other countries, we we don't. UM.

1865
01:57:56,560 --> 01:58:00,120
Speaker 1: So in the absence of anything that has caused that

1866
01:58:00,160 --> 01:58:03,520
Speaker 1: could cause some sort of massive political realignment, the most

1867
01:58:03,600 --> 01:58:07,040
Speaker 1: likely thing historically is that the Democrats are gonna lose

1868
01:58:07,160 --> 01:58:10,640
Speaker 1: control of one, maybe both houses of Congress UM and

1869
01:58:10,680 --> 01:58:14,400
Speaker 1: a modest amount of seats UM. So if that happens,

1870
01:58:14,440 --> 01:58:19,240
Speaker 1: if it's kind of within historical dimensions, UM, then that

1871
01:58:19,280 --> 01:58:22,240
Speaker 1: won't be all that weird at all. Um. If it's

1872
01:58:22,280 --> 01:58:26,400
Speaker 1: a huge blowout, then that's a big deal. And if

1873
01:58:26,560 --> 01:58:30,160
Speaker 1: the Democrats don't lose or kind of barely lose ground.

1874
01:58:30,480 --> 01:58:32,960
Speaker 1: Then those would both be big deals for different reasons.

1875
01:58:33,440 --> 01:58:35,360
Speaker 1: Um and again, no one knows what's going to happen,

1876
01:58:35,360 --> 01:58:36,880
Speaker 1: and no one on this podcast is going to make

1877
01:58:36,880 --> 01:58:38,520
Speaker 1: a prediction. We're just going to kind of try to

1878
01:58:38,560 --> 01:58:42,800
Speaker 1: talk about what what is sort of evident right now. Well,

1879
01:58:42,800 --> 01:58:46,760
Speaker 1: you're not allowed to legally make predictions, Robert, I'm I'm

1880
01:58:46,800 --> 01:58:49,480
Speaker 1: not allowed to legally make tradictions, although I will make

1881
01:58:49,520 --> 01:58:53,560
Speaker 1: one prediction, which is that at some point, at some point,

1882
01:58:54,080 --> 01:59:00,560
Speaker 1: we're gonna see Joe Biden's whole ass, and odds if

1883
01:59:00,600 --> 01:59:04,720
Speaker 1: we see the ass, odds that you can see some balls.

1884
01:59:05,320 --> 01:59:07,960
Speaker 1: That is. I've gone back and forth with my polling

1885
01:59:08,000 --> 01:59:11,960
Speaker 1: experts on this, and we're we're firm on that fifty

1886
01:59:12,600 --> 01:59:15,920
Speaker 1: coin flip, coin flip for the coin purse, toss up,

1887
01:59:15,960 --> 01:59:19,360
Speaker 1: toss up, toss up for the tossing of his salad,

1888
01:59:19,800 --> 01:59:22,560
Speaker 1: which might be why we see his butt. Anyway, here's

1889
01:59:22,600 --> 01:59:24,920
Speaker 1: here first on ticket happen here. It could it could

1890
01:59:24,920 --> 01:59:28,800
Speaker 1: happen here, That could happen here. It's not impossible. Someone

1891
01:59:28,880 --> 01:59:32,160
Speaker 1: has a picture of Joe Biden's butt, right It's out there.

1892
01:59:34,320 --> 01:59:40,640
Speaker 1: So yeah, So for every min terms of the House

1893
01:59:40,720 --> 01:59:44,440
Speaker 1: has h has has all their seats go up for

1894
01:59:44,480 --> 01:59:48,240
Speaker 1: every two years. Uh, the Senate gets gets gets one

1895
01:59:48,280 --> 01:59:51,120
Speaker 1: third of seats up because they serve six year terms

1896
01:59:51,120 --> 01:59:55,160
Speaker 1: because we like having fun here. Um. Yeah, so it's

1897
01:59:55,200 --> 01:59:58,320
Speaker 1: it's gonna be it's it's gonna be interesting both because yeah,

1898
01:59:58,320 --> 02:00:02,000
Speaker 1: I mean obvious obviously it's mostly that definitely Republicans will

1899
02:00:02,120 --> 02:00:05,360
Speaker 1: will win back a decent number of seats inside the

1900
02:00:05,400 --> 02:00:09,640
Speaker 1: inside the House and probably um make make the divide

1901
02:00:09,640 --> 02:00:12,080
Speaker 1: they're less extreme, um, if not actually just like take

1902
02:00:12,120 --> 02:00:15,200
Speaker 1: the House. Also, the Senate's obviously more more of a

1903
02:00:15,440 --> 02:00:17,920
Speaker 1: more of a toss up because of we're only on

1904
02:00:18,000 --> 02:00:21,160
Speaker 1: the Senate at the moment um, so that is definitely

1905
02:00:21,200 --> 02:00:23,400
Speaker 1: way more of a thing that they can totally cease.

1906
02:00:23,440 --> 02:00:25,320
Speaker 1: But even if they do, season that's not actually changing

1907
02:00:25,400 --> 02:00:29,320
Speaker 1: much because they're not we're not we're not able to

1908
02:00:29,320 --> 02:00:34,680
Speaker 1: pass anything through the Senate anyway. Uh they are, So

1909
02:00:35,320 --> 02:00:39,640
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter because yeah, I mean, like it would

1910
02:00:39,680 --> 02:00:42,880
Speaker 1: only really suck if m Republicans get extreme control both

1911
02:00:42,920 --> 02:00:45,480
Speaker 1: the House and the Senate. Um, but I think that's

1912
02:00:45,520 --> 02:00:48,200
Speaker 1: kind of unlikely in terms of getting like total control,

1913
02:00:48,600 --> 02:00:51,720
Speaker 1: and then we still have executives. So it is. Part

1914
02:00:51,720 --> 02:00:54,600
Speaker 1: of why it doesn't seem super likely is that, like

1915
02:00:54,720 --> 02:00:58,000
Speaker 1: in the last UM a couple of sets in particularly

1916
02:00:58,760 --> 02:01:02,680
Speaker 1: mid terms, the Democrats lost basically all of their most

1917
02:01:02,760 --> 02:01:05,400
Speaker 1: vulnerable seats, and so a lot of the seats that

1918
02:01:05,440 --> 02:01:09,600
Speaker 1: are coming up are less vulnerable and so and that

1919
02:01:09,680 --> 02:01:11,600
Speaker 1: does mean that, like, if the Democrats lose a bunch

1920
02:01:11,640 --> 02:01:14,320
Speaker 1: more than again, it's a much more significant sign that

1921
02:01:14,360 --> 02:01:19,200
Speaker 1: we're seeing uh, pretty predicted potentially like pretty fashy political

1922
02:01:19,280 --> 02:01:23,920
Speaker 1: realignment in the United States. It's it again, there's not

1923
02:01:23,960 --> 02:01:27,760
Speaker 1: like evidence that makes me think that's particularly likely. Um,

1924
02:01:27,800 --> 02:01:29,760
Speaker 1: that's just what it would mean if that were to happen.

1925
02:01:29,920 --> 02:01:31,760
Speaker 1: And I think probably the number one thing I would

1926
02:01:31,760 --> 02:01:35,680
Speaker 1: expect if there were some sort of gigantic apocle shift

1927
02:01:35,880 --> 02:01:39,640
Speaker 1: where the Republicans wind up with like sixty percent of

1928
02:01:39,640 --> 02:01:42,400
Speaker 1: the seats in Congress or something like that, UM, is

1929
02:01:42,400 --> 02:01:44,600
Speaker 1: they're going to try to Impeachy like they would have

1930
02:01:44,680 --> 02:01:47,640
Speaker 1: to write if they in control of both how like

1931
02:01:47,680 --> 02:01:50,640
Speaker 1: they would have to try and impeach Biden because of

1932
02:01:50,640 --> 02:01:54,000
Speaker 1: the rhetoric. It's the bit, you know, which again I

1933
02:01:54,080 --> 02:01:56,120
Speaker 1: don't I'm not saying I don't think that is particularly

1934
02:01:56,160 --> 02:01:59,120
Speaker 1: likely based on what we're seeing, but like if that happens,

1935
02:01:59,120 --> 02:02:01,680
Speaker 1: they're going to do that at yeah, I mean it's

1936
02:02:01,680 --> 02:02:03,840
Speaker 1: not even a prediction. That's just like, well they've been

1937
02:02:03,880 --> 02:02:06,440
Speaker 1: talking about it because like because like on average, the

1938
02:02:06,440 --> 02:02:10,120
Speaker 1: president's party has lost about thirty thirty House seats during

1939
02:02:10,160 --> 02:02:12,800
Speaker 1: mid terms over the course of the last century. UM,

1940
02:02:12,840 --> 02:02:16,280
Speaker 1: and Republicans only need to gain five seats to win

1941
02:02:16,320 --> 02:02:19,800
Speaker 1: the Chamber. But now now gaining five seats is not

1942
02:02:19,840 --> 02:02:24,720
Speaker 1: the same as winning five seats obviously, Yes, like the

1943
02:02:24,760 --> 02:02:27,120
Speaker 1: party needs to needs at least two eighteen seats to

1944
02:02:27,120 --> 02:02:30,320
Speaker 1: win control of the House. So Republicans are actually they

1945
02:02:30,320 --> 02:02:31,600
Speaker 1: have to flip. They have to they have to do

1946
02:02:31,640 --> 02:02:33,920
Speaker 1: the flipping um, and they have to flip actually a

1947
02:02:33,920 --> 02:02:36,120
Speaker 1: good number of them because again the seats that they do,

1948
02:02:36,760 --> 02:02:39,080
Speaker 1: the seats that that Democrats currently have are all like

1949
02:02:39,320 --> 02:02:43,240
Speaker 1: pretty firmly democrat UM. So there's there is there is

1950
02:02:43,280 --> 02:02:44,880
Speaker 1: less toss ups. And the other thing that's kind of

1951
02:02:44,920 --> 02:02:49,640
Speaker 1: interesting is that the redistricting process that has been going

1952
02:02:49,640 --> 02:02:52,520
Speaker 1: on in the past bit has seemed to kind of favor,

1953
02:02:53,120 --> 02:02:58,920
Speaker 1: uh favor democrats. So interesting, if you want to have

1954
02:02:58,960 --> 02:03:02,000
Speaker 1: a good time, go go look at what go look

1955
02:03:02,040 --> 02:03:04,040
Speaker 1: at what the Democrats did to the Illinois map. It

1956
02:03:04,200 --> 02:03:07,800
Speaker 1: is hilarious between like there is a district that is

1957
02:03:07,840 --> 02:03:10,720
Speaker 1: like it starts in the like in the north in

1958
02:03:10,760 --> 02:03:13,520
Speaker 1: the south side of the south side of Chicago, and

1959
02:03:13,640 --> 02:03:18,600
Speaker 1: the district ends like literally like like nine tenths of

1960
02:03:18,640 --> 02:03:21,520
Speaker 1: the way down the state, like a tiny town in

1961
02:03:21,520 --> 02:03:24,680
Speaker 1: seven Illinois. And it's like, it's really funny because like

1962
02:03:24,680 --> 02:03:26,160
Speaker 1: like eighty percent of what was going on there was

1963
02:03:26,200 --> 02:03:31,320
Speaker 1: like Solenodonois like elected a Nazi to the house. Amocrats

1964
02:03:31,320 --> 02:03:33,960
Speaker 1: were like, how how can we well if funny thing

1965
02:03:34,000 --> 02:03:36,240
Speaker 1: is also said they didn't even do the optimal jerrymander

1966
02:03:36,320 --> 02:03:41,160
Speaker 1: because their cowards and fools. But yeah, like this, you know, okay,

1967
02:03:41,200 --> 02:03:45,040
Speaker 1: like the maps are always constantly jerrymandered. And part of

1968
02:03:45,040 --> 02:03:47,040
Speaker 1: the reason the Democrats have been just like getting smashed

1969
02:03:47,080 --> 02:03:48,880
Speaker 1: for the last decade is that when they lost a

1970
02:03:48,960 --> 02:03:53,520
Speaker 1: dozen ten election, they lost control of like the gerrymandering,

1971
02:03:54,200 --> 02:03:57,919
Speaker 1: and so that like fucked them for like a decade

1972
02:03:58,000 --> 02:04:01,320
Speaker 1: and they've gotten to a session that is slightly better

1973
02:04:01,440 --> 02:04:05,240
Speaker 1: for them. But you know, again, like the important thing

1974
02:04:05,240 --> 02:04:07,600
Speaker 1: to actually take away here is it like basically every

1975
02:04:07,640 --> 02:04:10,440
Speaker 1: like every every election that happens in the US on

1976
02:04:10,720 --> 02:04:13,240
Speaker 1: like for the house is rigged like before it starts

1977
02:04:13,680 --> 02:04:16,200
Speaker 1: like at least partially because jay mandering is just legal

1978
02:04:16,240 --> 02:04:18,160
Speaker 1: and you could do it. I mean, it's amazing to

1979
02:04:18,160 --> 02:04:20,360
Speaker 1: me that they're they're connecting these little rural areas to

1980
02:04:20,400 --> 02:04:22,720
Speaker 1: the south side of Chicago because and I'm sure you're

1981
02:04:22,720 --> 02:04:24,840
Speaker 1: aware of this, Christopher, it's the baddest part of town.

1982
02:04:25,080 --> 02:04:27,320
Speaker 1: And and if you go there, you just better be

1983
02:04:27,360 --> 02:04:32,280
Speaker 1: aware of a man named Lee Roy Brown. Now you

1984
02:04:32,280 --> 02:04:35,200
Speaker 1: know Lee Roy Brown. It stood about six ft four um.

1985
02:04:35,760 --> 02:04:38,160
Speaker 1: All those downtown ladies called him tree top Lever. All

1986
02:04:38,160 --> 02:04:40,720
Speaker 1: the men just called him, sir, you know, bad badly

1987
02:04:40,800 --> 02:04:43,480
Speaker 1: Roy Brown, baddest man in the whole, baddest man in

1988
02:04:43,520 --> 02:04:46,200
Speaker 1: the whole. Damn. This is important electoral stuff, Sophie. He

1989
02:04:46,240 --> 02:04:48,840
Speaker 1: could win. He's badder than old King Kong and meaner

1990
02:04:48,840 --> 02:04:54,480
Speaker 1: than a junkyard dog. So all of so, um, about

1991
02:04:54,480 --> 02:04:57,360
Speaker 1: sixty one house races are seen to be viewed as

1992
02:04:57,360 --> 02:05:01,360
Speaker 1: competitive out of four hundred thirty five um. But out

1993
02:05:01,360 --> 02:05:07,520
Speaker 1: of those amazing democracy yeah so and and and out

1994
02:05:07,520 --> 02:05:10,400
Speaker 1: of those sixty one, only about sixteen are actually kind

1995
02:05:10,400 --> 02:05:12,680
Speaker 1: of viewed as toss ups. At the moment, with seven

1996
02:05:12,680 --> 02:05:15,280
Speaker 1: of those seats currently helped by Republicans, eight of them

1997
02:05:15,320 --> 02:05:18,080
Speaker 1: being helped with Democrats, and one new seat in the

1998
02:05:18,240 --> 02:05:22,160
Speaker 1: in the state of Colorado. UM. So yeah, like it

1999
02:05:22,240 --> 02:05:24,800
Speaker 1: does seem like in order for Republicans to really get

2000
02:05:24,840 --> 02:05:27,680
Speaker 1: more controlled the House, they have to actually flip more

2001
02:05:27,840 --> 02:05:32,720
Speaker 1: traditionally democratic uh territories, So like they're kind of they

2002
02:05:32,720 --> 02:05:34,520
Speaker 1: have to do most of that the actual like work here,

2003
02:05:35,080 --> 02:05:38,880
Speaker 1: um to actually get those things flipped. But again, I

2004
02:05:39,160 --> 02:05:41,680
Speaker 1: don't I don't trust democrats ability to be able to

2005
02:05:41,720 --> 02:05:46,360
Speaker 1: hold on to what they have anyway, So who knows. Yeah,

2006
02:05:46,400 --> 02:05:49,200
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's one of those things. There's a

2007
02:05:49,200 --> 02:05:52,520
Speaker 1: lot of talk about like how incompetent the Democrats are,

2008
02:05:52,560 --> 02:05:55,520
Speaker 1: And there's a pretty interesting article that dropped, oh gosh,

2009
02:05:55,520 --> 02:05:58,880
Speaker 1: where was it about how millennial support for Democrats is,

2010
02:05:58,880 --> 02:06:02,680
Speaker 1: like it its lowest point in recent memory. Under why

2011
02:06:03,360 --> 02:06:07,680
Speaker 1: yea millennial here, it's because they don't do anything. It's

2012
02:06:07,720 --> 02:06:09,800
Speaker 1: because they say they're going to do a number of

2013
02:06:09,920 --> 02:06:14,640
Speaker 1: very popular things and then do not do them. Again,

2014
02:06:15,080 --> 02:06:17,760
Speaker 1: the people who gerrymanded all these districts, and as a

2015
02:06:17,800 --> 02:06:20,680
Speaker 1: general rule, just the data we have on how midterms

2016
02:06:20,720 --> 02:06:23,240
Speaker 1: seem to go all factors in the fact that that

2017
02:06:23,360 --> 02:06:26,920
Speaker 1: young people don't vote. You know, um, so the fact

2018
02:06:26,920 --> 02:06:29,400
Speaker 1: that the Democrats are worse than normal with youth may

2019
02:06:29,440 --> 02:06:32,080
Speaker 1: not actually have a huge impact on the mid terms

2020
02:06:32,160 --> 02:06:35,960
Speaker 1: at this state, especially again there's not as many at

2021
02:06:36,040 --> 02:06:39,240
Speaker 1: least based on the polling we have, which is again imperfect,

2022
02:06:39,360 --> 02:06:43,280
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like there's a tremendous amount of super competitive districts. No,

2023
02:06:43,440 --> 02:06:45,920
Speaker 1: and it does seem to be the group of people

2024
02:06:45,960 --> 02:06:48,200
Speaker 1: that will be the most interesting deciding factor right now

2025
02:06:48,680 --> 02:06:52,560
Speaker 1: is boomer women seems to be the one are actually

2026
02:06:52,640 --> 02:06:59,400
Speaker 1: they're going. I don't like that boomers are allowed to vote.

2027
02:07:00,440 --> 02:07:02,360
Speaker 1: Get him out of there. Get him out of there.

2028
02:07:02,440 --> 02:07:05,200
Speaker 1: On on that note, should we take a quick little

2029
02:07:05,200 --> 02:07:10,160
Speaker 1: addie break. You know who else doesn't want you to vote?

2030
02:07:10,800 --> 02:07:14,360
Speaker 1: It's it's the Washington State Patrol, the oligarchs who support

2031
02:07:14,440 --> 02:07:20,360
Speaker 1: this podcast. Uh, we're back and we're again talking about

2032
02:07:20,440 --> 02:07:22,680
Speaker 1: the elections in the South side of Chicago. And there's

2033
02:07:22,680 --> 02:07:24,320
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons to wonder how this is going

2034
02:07:24,360 --> 02:07:26,200
Speaker 1: to go. And I just want to point out that

2035
02:07:26,280 --> 02:07:28,839
Speaker 1: Leroy Brown keeps a thirty two guns in his pocket

2036
02:07:28,880 --> 02:07:31,480
Speaker 1: for fun and a razoring issue, which should be factored

2037
02:07:31,480 --> 02:07:33,880
Speaker 1: in when you're thinking about, you know, how things might

2038
02:07:33,920 --> 02:07:37,880
Speaker 1: go down on election day. Thank you, thank you for that,

2039
02:07:38,040 --> 02:07:43,280
Speaker 1: for that critical analysis from Robert Evans. Um. Yeah really

2040
02:07:43,320 --> 02:07:46,960
Speaker 1: really on the cusp of there, thank you. Yeah, it's uh,

2041
02:07:47,040 --> 02:07:49,000
Speaker 1: we are we are, We are lucky to have such

2042
02:07:49,120 --> 02:07:52,360
Speaker 1: an academic mind on the pod. I say that a lot,

2043
02:07:52,440 --> 02:07:56,080
Speaker 1: but I'm glad someone else's finally, Uh, should we talk

2044
02:07:56,400 --> 02:07:59,600
Speaker 1: uh Senate? Senate seats that are potentially going to flip?

2045
02:07:59,680 --> 02:08:02,120
Speaker 1: Even the Garrison doesn't want to. Yeah. I read the

2046
02:08:02,200 --> 02:08:04,000
Speaker 1: article and I didn't. I found it kind of boring

2047
02:08:04,080 --> 02:08:08,400
Speaker 1: and I didn't find them to say anything super interesting. Um,

2048
02:08:08,440 --> 02:08:10,640
Speaker 1: but yes we can. So one of the one of

2049
02:08:10,680 --> 02:08:14,600
Speaker 1: the ones we got here is in Pennsylvania. Is that

2050
02:08:14,640 --> 02:08:18,600
Speaker 1: the one that's open? It is the one that is open? Um?

2051
02:08:18,680 --> 02:08:23,720
Speaker 1: So yeah, this is uh the seat the scene. The

2052
02:08:23,720 --> 02:08:26,720
Speaker 1: scene opened up when the Republican Senator Pat too Many

2053
02:08:27,000 --> 02:08:29,400
Speaker 1: good for him for having a funny name, announced that

2054
02:08:29,400 --> 02:08:31,200
Speaker 1: he would not be announced, that he would not be

2055
02:08:31,240 --> 02:08:34,680
Speaker 1: having he would not be running for re election. So

2056
02:08:34,680 --> 02:08:38,160
Speaker 1: so yeah, there's the lieutenant governor is running in the

2057
02:08:38,160 --> 02:08:41,880
Speaker 1: Democratic primary and raising a good good deal of money. Um,

2058
02:08:42,400 --> 02:08:46,640
Speaker 1: that's cool. Yeah, it's a it's a yeah, it's a

2059
02:08:47,680 --> 02:08:51,360
Speaker 1: Trump has a Trump has a has has has stepped in,

2060
02:08:51,800 --> 02:08:55,280
Speaker 1: uh to fight between between the two the two uh,

2061
02:08:55,560 --> 02:08:58,840
Speaker 1: the two candidates which we have David David McCormick, which

2062
02:08:58,880 --> 02:09:02,320
Speaker 1: is a former hedge fund manager, and his Republican opposer

2063
02:09:02,800 --> 02:09:07,920
Speaker 1: is a friend of the pod dcor Memas. Oh yeah,

2064
02:09:08,360 --> 02:09:10,440
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that. I have to care

2065
02:09:10,480 --> 02:09:16,760
Speaker 1: about a fight between doctor Oz and a hedge fund manager. Awesome.

2066
02:09:17,320 --> 02:09:19,880
Speaker 1: And do you want to guess who Trump endorsed between

2067
02:09:19,920 --> 02:09:23,040
Speaker 1: the hedge fund manister and the and the good doctor.

2068
02:09:23,240 --> 02:09:25,640
Speaker 1: It's got to be doctor Oz. Yes, of course it is.

2069
02:09:26,880 --> 02:09:31,880
Speaker 1: They let Doctor Oz speak at Sea Pack. Yeah, so immediate,

2070
02:09:32,400 --> 02:09:36,040
Speaker 1: which is funny because the hedge fund guy specifically went

2071
02:09:36,160 --> 02:09:42,200
Speaker 1: to Marlago to to like help get Trump's support, um,

2072
02:09:42,320 --> 02:09:46,320
Speaker 1: and then Trump endorsed doctor was he was he like?

2073
02:09:46,600 --> 02:09:50,480
Speaker 1: Was he like, hey, like, what's your TV ratings? I

2074
02:09:50,480 --> 02:09:53,080
Speaker 1: don't know if you you don't have a t like

2075
02:09:53,240 --> 02:09:57,040
Speaker 1: you were not? Oh no, no, no. Trump is not

2076
02:09:57,120 --> 02:09:59,400
Speaker 1: a dumb man. He's just a very focused one. And

2077
02:09:59,440 --> 02:10:01,640
Speaker 1: the only thing he is focused on is the same

2078
02:10:01,680 --> 02:10:06,720
Speaker 1: thing that Dr Oz is good at. Yes, getting um

2079
02:10:06,760 --> 02:10:08,560
Speaker 1: so yeah, it's. It's seemed to be kind of a

2080
02:10:08,600 --> 02:10:12,320
Speaker 1: toss up between these two Republican candidates. Both both are

2081
02:10:12,440 --> 02:10:15,000
Speaker 1: both are pretty wealthy, both are spending millions and millions

2082
02:10:15,000 --> 02:10:18,560
Speaker 1: and millions of dollars um and it's it's it is.

2083
02:10:18,640 --> 02:10:21,120
Speaker 1: It is expected to be the most expensive race in

2084
02:10:21,120 --> 02:10:23,720
Speaker 1: the whole country because of the hedge fund guy, because

2085
02:10:23,760 --> 02:10:27,200
Speaker 1: of Dr Oz and then then the one Democrat, Lieutenant

2086
02:10:27,240 --> 02:10:30,960
Speaker 1: Governor John fetterman Um, who seems to who is racing

2087
02:10:31,000 --> 02:10:34,280
Speaker 1: a lot of money for on on on the the

2088
02:10:34,320 --> 02:10:38,720
Speaker 1: from the Democratic establishment. So yeah, um, that's that's the

2089
02:10:38,760 --> 02:10:42,960
Speaker 1: metal head, right. I don't know, I don't know. I

2090
02:10:43,000 --> 02:10:47,320
Speaker 1: want to talk about Ohio for a second, because there's

2091
02:10:47,360 --> 02:10:50,040
Speaker 1: been some stuff out of there. That is it is

2092
02:10:50,080 --> 02:10:52,920
Speaker 1: because it is also open. Yeah, so it's open. And

2093
02:10:52,920 --> 02:10:56,240
Speaker 1: the guy he's running on the Democratic side is Tim Ryan,

2094
02:10:56,400 --> 02:11:00,920
Speaker 1: who's like a weirdo and like it's sort of been

2095
02:11:00,920 --> 02:11:02,760
Speaker 1: a like on the right, we need Democratic party for

2096
02:11:02,800 --> 02:11:05,920
Speaker 1: a long time. But like so Tim Brian's doing this

2097
02:11:06,000 --> 02:11:12,200
Speaker 1: like it's being called economic populism. Oh where Okay, Yeah,

2098
02:11:12,720 --> 02:11:17,880
Speaker 1: so let's let's cut out of the Yeah, so so

2099
02:11:17,960 --> 02:11:21,200
Speaker 1: let's let's let's let's let's let's read some Ryan quotes. China.

2100
02:11:21,320 --> 02:11:26,360
Speaker 1: It's definitely China. One word China. It's us versus China. This,

2101
02:11:26,360 --> 02:11:29,960
Speaker 1: this is this is his His campaign basically is lyrical, genius.

2102
02:11:30,000 --> 02:11:32,280
Speaker 1: What are you talking about? I mean, I gotta say

2103
02:11:32,440 --> 02:11:36,600
Speaker 1: it seems very hinged. For one, Yeah, super hinged. It's

2104
02:11:36,600 --> 02:11:38,480
Speaker 1: an interesting thing because it's like, Okay, so he's trying

2105
02:11:38,520 --> 02:11:40,200
Speaker 1: to do the like we're gonna we're gonna do that

2106
02:11:40,240 --> 02:11:42,360
Speaker 1: kind of populism. We're talking about how China is like

2107
02:11:42,680 --> 02:11:44,680
Speaker 1: taking jobs away from the rest belt. It's also funny

2108
02:11:44,680 --> 02:11:48,280
Speaker 1: because like he's against Medicare for all like so like

2109
02:11:48,400 --> 02:11:51,360
Speaker 1: he's like he's like not like he's not actually like

2110
02:11:51,360 --> 02:11:55,160
Speaker 1: like like on the left inning seriously, but you know,

2111
02:11:55,200 --> 02:11:57,280
Speaker 1: and there's there's this whole thing like he's he's running

2112
02:11:57,280 --> 02:11:59,680
Speaker 1: as a NAFTA, which is interesting because like you know,

2113
02:11:59,680 --> 02:12:03,160
Speaker 1: if in terms of populism, like Obama did run on that,

2114
02:12:03,200 --> 02:12:06,240
Speaker 1: like Obama ran on get on on being against NAFTA.

2115
02:12:06,320 --> 02:12:08,640
Speaker 1: This is part of how we just like absolutely claw birds,

2116
02:12:08,760 --> 02:12:12,680
Speaker 1: uh John McCain. But like you know, the Democrats ever

2117
02:12:12,720 --> 02:12:15,280
Speaker 1: will literally never do anything about that. But like yeah,

2118
02:12:15,560 --> 02:12:17,000
Speaker 1: you know, but there's there's the there's this whole sort

2119
02:12:17,040 --> 02:12:19,840
Speaker 1: of factor here where Bryan's big thing as he's anti China,

2120
02:12:20,840 --> 02:12:24,400
Speaker 1: and he's anti China. He he tried to be the

2121
02:12:24,440 --> 02:12:27,960
Speaker 1: House speaker multiple times. Yeah, and and there's just you know,

2122
02:12:28,120 --> 02:12:31,440
Speaker 1: the thing that's interesting about it is is so he's

2123
02:12:31,440 --> 02:12:33,600
Speaker 1: getting a lot of support for the like he looks

2124
02:12:33,600 --> 02:12:36,160
Speaker 1: so Asian American groups in Ohio, We're like, hey, what

2125
02:12:36,200 --> 02:12:38,880
Speaker 1: the funk are you doing? And he was just like, yeah,

2126
02:12:38,920 --> 02:12:41,520
Speaker 1: I don't care um and just kept doing it. And

2127
02:12:41,520 --> 02:12:45,240
Speaker 1: and it's interesting because there's this sort of like he's

2128
02:12:45,280 --> 02:12:49,360
Speaker 1: getting a lot of support from like Republicans for this,

2129
02:12:49,560 --> 02:12:51,480
Speaker 1: Like you, there's there's been a lot of columnis from

2130
02:12:51,480 --> 02:12:53,840
Speaker 1: sort of Republican columnists who are like, wow, I'm pro

2131
02:12:54,000 --> 02:12:57,160
Speaker 1: free trade, but also like this whole opposing China thing

2132
02:12:58,240 --> 02:13:00,560
Speaker 1: is good. And I think it's there is an interesting

2133
02:13:00,640 --> 02:13:03,440
Speaker 1: dynamic going on here where you have this like that

2134
02:13:03,520 --> 02:13:06,839
Speaker 1: this is a very very old tradition in American American

2135
02:13:07,080 --> 02:13:10,160
Speaker 1: I guess you could call it American labor of there

2136
02:13:10,200 --> 02:13:12,640
Speaker 1: being this kind of like, well, okay, so the solution

2137
02:13:12,720 --> 02:13:14,880
Speaker 1: twelve Recono problems is that China's taking our jobs away.

2138
02:13:14,880 --> 02:13:16,400
Speaker 1: I mean, like you can see this like literally in

2139
02:13:16,400 --> 02:13:18,400
Speaker 1: the eight hundreds, this was happening. And you know what

2140
02:13:18,440 --> 02:13:21,720
Speaker 1: happened in the eight hundred was that they ethnically cleansed

2141
02:13:21,760 --> 02:13:25,160
Speaker 1: the entire West Coast and like most of the the

2142
02:13:25,280 --> 02:13:27,800
Speaker 1: sun Bolt States, yeah south like that. Yeah, you know

2143
02:13:28,280 --> 02:13:30,120
Speaker 1: a lot of the stats mining going on this. Yeah,

2144
02:13:30,120 --> 02:13:31,680
Speaker 1: this is they just like ethnically cleansed all of the

2145
02:13:31,720 --> 02:13:34,320
Speaker 1: Asian people out. And you know, this is I think

2146
02:13:34,360 --> 02:13:38,040
Speaker 1: worrying in a lot of ways. It's the Democrats so

2147
02:13:38,120 --> 02:13:42,520
Speaker 1: far haven't really gone as hard on this as they

2148
02:13:42,520 --> 02:13:49,720
Speaker 1: were going in. But this kind of stuff gets really

2149
02:13:49,800 --> 02:13:54,520
Speaker 1: really bad really quickly. And you know, okay, like the

2150
02:13:55,000 --> 02:13:57,800
Speaker 1: worst the anti Asian violence has been largely colonivirus stuff.

2151
02:13:57,800 --> 02:13:59,640
Speaker 1: But like if you go back to the eighties when

2152
02:13:59,800 --> 02:14:02,720
Speaker 1: this exact same thing was happening with Japan, that got

2153
02:14:02,880 --> 02:14:07,880
Speaker 1: really really bad very quickly. People got murdered, um, a

2154
02:14:07,880 --> 02:14:11,800
Speaker 1: lot of psychocrip and books were written with bots that

2155
02:14:11,840 --> 02:14:15,840
Speaker 1: are very racist now in retrospective, and you know, and

2156
02:14:16,160 --> 02:14:18,120
Speaker 1: I think I think it's important to remind people that, like,

2157
02:14:19,360 --> 02:14:21,440
Speaker 1: you know, like, yeah, they're like there there were a

2158
02:14:21,440 --> 02:14:23,320
Speaker 1: lot of jobs that got moved from the US to

2159
02:14:23,400 --> 02:14:25,960
Speaker 1: China and that happened because corporations were trying to find

2160
02:14:26,160 --> 02:14:28,680
Speaker 1: a where we're where we're you know, like this this

2161
02:14:28,800 --> 02:14:31,360
Speaker 1: is the thing that corporations did not like the Chinese people.

2162
02:14:31,840 --> 02:14:33,720
Speaker 1: And the other part of the reason it happened was

2163
02:14:33,720 --> 02:14:37,120
Speaker 1: that the Chinese government fucking murdered, like literally, like just

2164
02:14:37,240 --> 02:14:40,879
Speaker 1: machine guns a bunch of trade unionists outside of Tieneman

2165
02:14:41,320 --> 02:14:43,720
Speaker 1: and you know that, like that that had the effectors

2166
02:14:43,840 --> 02:14:46,080
Speaker 1: like shattering whatever was sort of left of the Chinese

2167
02:14:46,120 --> 02:14:50,040
Speaker 1: work organization of Chinese working class. And so the factory

2168
02:14:50,040 --> 02:14:53,800
Speaker 1: worker in China who is making like if they're lucky,

2169
02:14:54,560 --> 02:14:58,600
Speaker 1: maybe like sixteen dollars a year is not your enemy,

2170
02:14:59,320 --> 02:15:02,080
Speaker 1: despite what fucking Tim Bryan and all these assholes are

2171
02:15:02,160 --> 02:15:04,680
Speaker 1: are trying to tell you. It's that's it's just it's

2172
02:15:04,520 --> 02:15:07,040
Speaker 1: just it's it's not true. And the reason they're doing

2173
02:15:07,040 --> 02:15:09,240
Speaker 1: this is because they're trying to get you to not

2174
02:15:09,760 --> 02:15:12,080
Speaker 1: look at the people who are actually stealing all your money.

2175
02:15:12,200 --> 02:15:17,280
Speaker 1: So he also seems pretty pro cop. Yeah, he sucks. Oh,

2176
02:15:17,280 --> 02:15:20,720
Speaker 1: the Democrats are all pro cop. Now we have completely

2177
02:15:20,760 --> 02:15:24,280
Speaker 1: turned turned around on that one. They were only anti

2178
02:15:24,400 --> 02:15:28,080
Speaker 1: cop for eleven minutes in when everyone was was scared

2179
02:15:28,120 --> 02:15:30,840
Speaker 1: that things were going to go Minneapolis in a lot

2180
02:15:30,880 --> 02:15:35,040
Speaker 1: more places. The in that eleven minutes was when Nancy

2181
02:15:35,040 --> 02:15:39,160
Speaker 1: Polis that eleven minutes ruled though not that part of it,

2182
02:15:39,200 --> 02:15:41,400
Speaker 1: but a lot of parts of that part. That part

2183
02:15:42,840 --> 02:15:45,520
Speaker 1: when when when the CEO of Target had to come

2184
02:15:45,520 --> 02:15:49,000
Speaker 1: out and be like, it's cool if people, Yeah, that

2185
02:15:49,120 --> 02:15:52,240
Speaker 1: was maybe the peak. You know well, and I will

2186
02:15:52,280 --> 02:15:54,840
Speaker 1: say this if if you if you want that back,

2187
02:15:55,080 --> 02:15:56,960
Speaker 1: you can do it again. You just have to you

2188
02:15:57,000 --> 02:15:58,680
Speaker 1: just have to burn a bunch of police stations and

2189
02:15:59,120 --> 02:16:06,880
Speaker 1: riot and lute thing. So, yeah, someone that that's a

2190
02:16:06,920 --> 02:16:09,080
Speaker 1: thing that could happen and if it were could happen

2191
02:16:09,160 --> 02:16:15,760
Speaker 1: here has I hope that Georgia doesn't flip? Yeah, let's

2192
02:16:15,800 --> 02:16:18,200
Speaker 1: let's talk about let's talk about let's talk about Georgia. Um,

2193
02:16:18,400 --> 02:16:23,960
Speaker 1: talk about Georgia because yeah, we got Raphael Uh that's

2194
02:16:23,960 --> 02:16:26,720
Speaker 1: what Yeah, is it running for his first full term

2195
02:16:26,760 --> 02:16:30,960
Speaker 1: after winning the special election last year. Um, so yeah,

2196
02:16:31,000 --> 02:16:35,720
Speaker 1: he's obviously trying to trying to, like since since Biden

2197
02:16:35,800 --> 02:16:39,320
Speaker 1: barely barely won Georgia in the in the last election,

2198
02:16:39,680 --> 02:16:42,800
Speaker 1: trying to kind of ride off of that that energy.

2199
02:16:43,400 --> 02:16:47,360
Speaker 1: But Biden's approval like everywhere nationally, but in Georgia, his

2200
02:16:47,360 --> 02:16:51,280
Speaker 1: approval is taken quite the nose dive um with like

2201
02:16:51,360 --> 02:16:57,360
Speaker 1: only like saying they approve of Biden's performance on the job, um.

2202
02:16:57,400 --> 02:17:00,760
Speaker 1: And then on the on the Republican side, we got

2203
02:17:00,800 --> 02:17:04,120
Speaker 1: the guy leading the race is a formal former NFL

2204
02:17:04,320 --> 02:17:09,560
Speaker 1: running back Herschel Walker. Um. So he he has he has,

2205
02:17:09,680 --> 02:17:13,000
Speaker 1: he has Trump's endorsement. Um. So he's trying to trying

2206
02:17:13,040 --> 02:17:15,840
Speaker 1: to run off that. But he's he's pretty new, so

2207
02:17:15,920 --> 02:17:20,560
Speaker 1: it's kind of he's on, he's more, he's more, he's

2208
02:17:20,680 --> 02:17:22,680
Speaker 1: it's it's unclear because he doesn't have a lot of

2209
02:17:22,720 --> 02:17:27,160
Speaker 1: political background, so who knows what's gonna what's gonna, what's

2210
02:17:27,160 --> 02:17:30,560
Speaker 1: gonna happen there? Um Well, And it's also one of

2211
02:17:30,560 --> 02:17:35,880
Speaker 1: the reasons why we're not one is that while as

2212
02:17:35,920 --> 02:17:39,200
Speaker 1: has been shown, people in his district aren't big fans

2213
02:17:39,200 --> 02:17:42,039
Speaker 1: of Biden, they just really were tired of Donald Trump.

2214
02:17:42,120 --> 02:17:43,920
Speaker 1: So it is kind of a question is to like, well,

2215
02:17:43,920 --> 02:17:46,959
Speaker 1: what is the degree to which trump endorsement's gotta matter

2216
02:17:47,040 --> 02:17:49,920
Speaker 1: a ton in this because the fact that they're now

2217
02:17:50,560 --> 02:17:53,920
Speaker 1: don't like Biden very much does not necessarily mean they're

2218
02:17:54,000 --> 02:17:56,520
Speaker 1: less exhausted at the thought of a Trump type guy

2219
02:17:56,560 --> 02:17:59,880
Speaker 1: coming in again, So another and another rise. It's so

2220
02:18:00,040 --> 02:18:03,879
Speaker 1: been is actually North Carolina? Um, which is which which

2221
02:18:03,920 --> 02:18:10,520
Speaker 1: is intriguing. Um. So that's huh why, Well, North Carolina

2222
02:18:10,560 --> 02:18:13,920
Speaker 1: has always had a pretty a reasonably prominent left like

2223
02:18:13,959 --> 02:18:16,080
Speaker 1: it gets kind of like loved in by Democrats, is

2224
02:18:16,080 --> 02:18:18,040
Speaker 1: like a right wing state, but it's not. I mean,

2225
02:18:18,120 --> 02:18:20,840
Speaker 1: there's certainly strong elements of that. There's a lot going

2226
02:18:20,840 --> 02:18:24,160
Speaker 1: on in North Carolina. Yeah, I mean the person that

2227
02:18:24,160 --> 02:18:28,920
Speaker 1: they're they're trying to run is uh is uh Cherry Beastley,

2228
02:18:29,040 --> 02:18:31,520
Speaker 1: which is the first black woman to serve as a

2229
02:18:31,600 --> 02:18:34,440
Speaker 1: chief justice on the state Supreme Court. Um, so she

2230
02:18:34,520 --> 02:18:38,920
Speaker 1: will probably when the primary Republicans are still flip flopping

2231
02:18:39,320 --> 02:18:42,160
Speaker 1: between their Trump back to candidate UM and the former

2232
02:18:42,200 --> 02:18:47,400
Speaker 1: governor Pat McCrary. UM. So it's that's that's still still

2233
02:18:47,480 --> 02:18:53,039
Speaker 1: kind of retiring, is it is it? Uh? Yeah, Richard

2234
02:18:53,080 --> 02:18:59,280
Speaker 1: Burr is retiring Republican Richard. So yeah, it seems like

2235
02:19:01,160 --> 02:19:04,080
Speaker 1: Republicans don't really think Cherry Viasley is going to be

2236
02:19:04,160 --> 02:19:09,520
Speaker 1: much of a threat. Um. And again, Biden's appropriating is

2237
02:19:09,560 --> 02:19:15,040
Speaker 1: also nose diving at around UM. So it's it's the

2238
02:19:15,360 --> 02:19:20,400
Speaker 1: Democrats they can just hopefully, hopefully wish that there's because

2239
02:19:20,400 --> 02:19:22,040
Speaker 1: of the vote is so split on the on the

2240
02:19:22,080 --> 02:19:25,960
Speaker 1: Republican side, if they can stoke stoke, stoke divisions there

2241
02:19:25,959 --> 02:19:27,840
Speaker 1: and just go spy. But they don't seem to be

2242
02:19:27,879 --> 02:19:29,880
Speaker 1: doing much much of work in North Carolina actually in

2243
02:19:30,000 --> 02:19:35,800
Speaker 1: terms of trying to like a gain ground. So yeah, yeah, yeah,

2244
02:19:35,920 --> 02:19:39,600
Speaker 1: it's because again, like the primary is going to be

2245
02:19:39,720 --> 02:19:43,720
Speaker 1: in May, so it's there's there's enough time to get

2246
02:19:43,760 --> 02:19:49,680
Speaker 1: support behind one Republican candidate. So let's see. I don't

2247
02:19:49,720 --> 02:19:52,879
Speaker 1: I think that's all of the ones that are open races.

2248
02:19:53,360 --> 02:19:55,880
Speaker 1: But we also got more more stuff like in like

2249
02:19:55,920 --> 02:20:03,440
Speaker 1: a Nevada, Wisconsin, Arizona, Florida, Florida. But I oh yeah,

2250
02:20:03,520 --> 02:20:07,600
Speaker 1: flow ride at one two in the Eurovision Awards representing

2251
02:20:07,640 --> 02:20:13,560
Speaker 1: San Marino. Back in it's Rubio seat that it is Rubio. Yes,

2252
02:20:14,680 --> 02:20:16,400
Speaker 1: that would be so fun. I would like I do

2253
02:20:16,560 --> 02:20:19,080
Speaker 1: enjoy the thought of bad things happening tomorrow. That would

2254
02:20:19,080 --> 02:20:22,200
Speaker 1: be so fun. Yeah. Currently Rubio is leading in the polls,

2255
02:20:22,320 --> 02:20:26,240
Speaker 1: but it's not it's not uh, it isn't above it

2256
02:20:26,360 --> 02:20:29,480
Speaker 1: is so it is, it's it's pretty it's still it's

2257
02:20:29,520 --> 02:20:33,959
Speaker 1: it's close, but I'm not gonna get let down by Florida.

2258
02:20:34,120 --> 02:20:38,840
Speaker 1: I refuse. You can't never expect good things from Florida

2259
02:20:38,959 --> 02:20:43,080
Speaker 1: or Texas. Yeah that is. That is the general rule.

2260
02:20:43,320 --> 02:20:49,240
Speaker 1: And never count out North Carolina. Yeah sure that is

2261
02:20:48,800 --> 02:20:53,000
Speaker 1: as a Texan, do count out Texas. Look if it happens,

2262
02:20:53,000 --> 02:20:55,280
Speaker 1: if and it's good, that that will be lovely, but

2263
02:20:55,640 --> 02:20:58,880
Speaker 1: don't don't hinge your mental health on it. Well, um,

2264
02:20:59,000 --> 02:21:01,000
Speaker 1: do you know what you should your mental health on

2265
02:21:01,320 --> 02:21:04,760
Speaker 1: the products and services that support this podcast? That is right, Robert,

2266
02:21:04,879 --> 02:21:08,320
Speaker 1: You guys a little bit too literal to our major advertiser, Garrison.

2267
02:21:11,080 --> 02:21:16,520
Speaker 1: That's why I didn't. I also hope Rubio gets kicked. Sophie, Oh,

2268
02:21:16,680 --> 02:21:19,920
Speaker 1: welcome back. We're talking about the thing I was just

2269
02:21:19,959 --> 02:21:24,000
Speaker 1: gonna make threats of violence against an last sitting representative.

2270
02:21:24,080 --> 02:21:26,160
Speaker 1: But that is one of our favorite things, isn't It

2271
02:21:26,200 --> 02:21:28,760
Speaker 1: is one of our favorite things. That's why we're launching

2272
02:21:28,760 --> 02:21:32,960
Speaker 1: a new podcast, the Actionable Threats against Congressman Cast. Do

2273
02:21:33,000 --> 02:21:37,039
Speaker 1: we know anything about the person who is running against Rubio?

2274
02:21:37,400 --> 02:21:40,200
Speaker 1: Do they have a chance? Do they have a chance?

2275
02:21:40,520 --> 02:21:43,440
Speaker 1: That is a good question to so probably not. But

2276
02:21:44,000 --> 02:21:47,360
Speaker 1: because you can't rely on Florida. As we discussed Vale

2277
02:21:47,640 --> 02:21:55,800
Speaker 1: Vowel Val Dennings is waging the fight against against Rubio. Um,

2278
02:21:55,840 --> 02:21:58,800
Speaker 1: and uh, it looks like the funding is actually pretty

2279
02:21:59,000 --> 02:22:02,040
Speaker 1: pretty pretty alert in terms of both having around twenty

2280
02:22:02,040 --> 02:22:05,640
Speaker 1: million dollars in funding. Um. But there is a lot

2281
02:22:05,680 --> 02:22:10,520
Speaker 1: of other democratic challengers. Uh, there's but I mean the

2282
02:22:10,560 --> 02:22:12,360
Speaker 1: Devils is the one that's going to do it, but

2283
02:22:12,400 --> 02:22:14,200
Speaker 1: there's a shocking amount of others. Like there's still like

2284
02:22:14,240 --> 02:22:17,040
Speaker 1: other millions of dollars getting spent on other challengers which

2285
02:22:17,040 --> 02:22:20,640
Speaker 1: are not going to succeed. Again, great, great, great way

2286
02:22:20,680 --> 02:22:24,920
Speaker 1: to do democracy. Yeah, we really have it locked down. Um.

2287
02:22:24,959 --> 02:22:27,760
Speaker 1: It is cool that Santa Claus is running for governor

2288
02:22:27,920 --> 02:22:32,280
Speaker 1: of Alaska and see they have a first past the

2289
02:22:32,320 --> 02:22:34,680
Speaker 1: post system. I think he's running for governor. Yeah, Santa

2290
02:22:34,680 --> 02:22:37,400
Speaker 1: Claus is. Yeah, there's a guy who's the mayor of

2291
02:22:37,520 --> 02:22:40,000
Speaker 1: the North Pole, which is a town in Alaska, who

2292
02:22:40,080 --> 02:22:43,080
Speaker 1: legally changed his name to Santa Claus. That's funny. You know,

2293
02:22:43,160 --> 02:22:46,200
Speaker 1: he's a big Bernie supporter. That is that. Okay, that's

2294
02:22:46,200 --> 02:22:49,240
Speaker 1: pretty rad. It is pretty too, because I know Santa

2295
02:22:49,280 --> 02:22:54,320
Speaker 1: Claus has been doing more more acting recently. So yes,

2296
02:22:54,800 --> 02:22:56,959
Speaker 1: I mean I can't wait to see the new crash

2297
02:22:57,040 --> 02:23:00,600
Speaker 1: More film. I'm pretty excited about as well. For Santa.

2298
02:23:00,720 --> 02:23:05,760
Speaker 1: Vote for done Leavy, vote for Santa. Yeah. So what

2299
02:23:05,800 --> 02:23:07,640
Speaker 1: do we? What do we do? We? The other thing

2300
02:23:07,680 --> 02:23:11,080
Speaker 1: I wanted to mention is that, um, is that in

2301
02:23:11,200 --> 02:23:14,080
Speaker 1: terms of like, you know, the other recurring bit we've

2302
02:23:14,120 --> 02:23:20,920
Speaker 1: been having is uh, people thinking that elections aren't actually real. Um,

2303
02:23:20,240 --> 02:23:26,039
Speaker 1: a fun bit. So we have only scented Republicans are

2304
02:23:26,040 --> 02:23:31,199
Speaker 1: confident that that the midterms will be conducted fairly and accurately. Um.

2305
02:23:31,240 --> 02:23:33,800
Speaker 1: So that's less than half that you know, what that

2306
02:23:33,879 --> 02:23:36,640
Speaker 1: is is a recipe for stability. That's less than half

2307
02:23:37,200 --> 02:23:40,800
Speaker 1: compared to seventies six percent of Democrats who think they

2308
02:23:40,800 --> 02:23:45,240
Speaker 1: will be fair and accurate. Um. Yeah. But also it's

2309
02:23:45,280 --> 02:23:48,080
Speaker 1: not going to be a problem. Also, Republicans are more

2310
02:23:48,240 --> 02:23:50,879
Speaker 1: sure that everyone who wants to vote will be able

2311
02:23:50,920 --> 02:23:54,400
Speaker 1: to They just don't think the votes will be counted verse,

2312
02:23:54,440 --> 02:23:56,520
Speaker 1: but they think everyone who has access to voting is

2313
02:23:56,560 --> 02:23:59,320
Speaker 1: can do it easily, when as Democrats say that voting

2314
02:23:59,360 --> 02:24:03,200
Speaker 1: access is more of an issue that actually could impact elections. Um,

2315
02:24:03,200 --> 02:24:05,240
Speaker 1: which is you know, if you actually look at stuff

2316
02:24:05,320 --> 02:24:09,280
Speaker 1: is actually true? Um? Yes, yeah, it's we have we

2317
02:24:09,320 --> 02:24:11,800
Speaker 1: have one of the like, the fact that our elections

2318
02:24:11,800 --> 02:24:14,840
Speaker 1: are ran by volunteers is like one of the most

2319
02:24:14,879 --> 02:24:19,120
Speaker 1: absolutely badshit things on earth. It's it's low key and

2320
02:24:19,160 --> 02:24:21,800
Speaker 1: existential threat to everybody listening to this yeeah, And I

2321
02:24:21,800 --> 02:24:22,920
Speaker 1: mean it's and you know, and this is one of

2322
02:24:22,959 --> 02:24:25,320
Speaker 1: the things I would say about sort of electoralisms, like

2323
02:24:25,360 --> 02:24:28,840
Speaker 1: every every single you probably won't hear about it that

2324
02:24:28,959 --> 02:24:32,000
Speaker 1: much this year because it's not a presidential election, but

2325
02:24:33,160 --> 02:24:36,119
Speaker 1: every single time there's there's a there's a natural presidential election,

2326
02:24:36,240 --> 02:24:38,200
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of stories about how a bunch of

2327
02:24:38,200 --> 02:24:40,840
Speaker 1: people waited in lines for fucking seven hours because there

2328
02:24:40,879 --> 02:24:43,240
Speaker 1: weren't enough stations, they didn't set them up in the

2329
02:24:43,320 --> 02:24:46,879
Speaker 1: right places, and nothing ever will literally will ever be

2330
02:24:46,920 --> 02:24:49,720
Speaker 1: done about this. This has been like I remember, I

2331
02:24:49,720 --> 02:24:52,760
Speaker 1: remember stories about this when I was like ten, and

2332
02:24:52,760 --> 02:24:54,920
Speaker 1: it is. It will never change, nothing will ever be

2333
02:24:54,959 --> 02:24:57,400
Speaker 1: done about It's every single time that happens, people say

2334
02:24:57,400 --> 02:24:58,840
Speaker 1: that they're going to do stuff about it, and they don't.

2335
02:24:59,720 --> 02:25:05,720
Speaker 1: And yet so that's that's fun. The elections are kind

2336
02:25:05,720 --> 02:25:10,040
Speaker 1: of pre rigged already. Further fun kind of staddy things

2337
02:25:10,120 --> 02:25:12,480
Speaker 1: to help with to help with trying to you know,

2338
02:25:12,600 --> 02:25:15,440
Speaker 1: get the temperature of the room. So about half of

2339
02:25:15,440 --> 02:25:18,800
Speaker 1: white voters say that they would vote for a Republican

2340
02:25:18,840 --> 02:25:23,680
Speaker 1: candidate say that they will vote Democrat. Uh, I know,

2341
02:25:24,080 --> 02:25:27,879
Speaker 1: I talked I mentioned this briefly of women aged fifteen

2342
02:25:27,959 --> 02:25:30,640
Speaker 1: up say that the economy is not working well. Um,

2343
02:25:30,959 --> 02:25:34,120
Speaker 1: and that's going to strongly impact their their electoral choices.

2344
02:25:34,200 --> 02:25:36,320
Speaker 1: And this is what a lot of people are kind

2345
02:25:36,320 --> 02:25:38,640
Speaker 1: of looking towards in terms of indications of how they're

2346
02:25:38,640 --> 02:25:42,160
Speaker 1: going to vote and how results could be in the end.

2347
02:25:42,440 --> 02:25:45,440
Speaker 1: Is like you know, older, older women who are Gen

2348
02:25:45,640 --> 02:25:49,000
Speaker 1: X and UM and UM and boomer women are seemed

2349
02:25:49,040 --> 02:25:50,800
Speaker 1: to be kind of the people to go after at

2350
02:25:50,800 --> 02:25:55,120
Speaker 1: the moment um. So, yeah, say that they don't like

2351
02:25:55,160 --> 02:25:57,240
Speaker 1: the economy and it's not working well. That's up from

2352
02:25:57,280 --> 02:26:02,000
Speaker 1: seventy sorry, that's up from in twenty nine in teen um,

2353
02:26:02,040 --> 02:26:04,280
Speaker 1: and it's most of it's around like day most of

2354
02:26:04,280 --> 02:26:09,360
Speaker 1: it's around like day to day budgets. Uh. So that's

2355
02:26:09,360 --> 02:26:11,600
Speaker 1: that's that's good. That's uh. That's an interesting thing in

2356
02:26:11,680 --> 02:26:15,039
Speaker 1: terms of how how propaganda can be shifted around that

2357
02:26:15,080 --> 02:26:16,480
Speaker 1: we know we've even seen that around like the war

2358
02:26:16,520 --> 02:26:19,000
Speaker 1: in Ukraine with like with like gas prices and stuff.

2359
02:26:21,080 --> 02:26:23,520
Speaker 1: We have in terms of back to how kind of

2360
02:26:24,760 --> 02:26:28,240
Speaker 1: looking at looking at people of what race is generally

2361
02:26:28,240 --> 02:26:31,760
Speaker 1: turning towards what what thing? Yeah, so over half say

2362
02:26:31,800 --> 02:26:34,720
Speaker 1: they do Republicans. About a third say they vote for

2363
02:26:34,800 --> 02:26:38,080
Speaker 1: Democrats if if if they are white. On contrast, we

2364
02:26:38,200 --> 02:26:41,440
Speaker 1: got like a larger majority of black voters saying that

2365
02:26:41,480 --> 02:26:45,720
Speaker 1: they prefer the Democratic candidates seven percent for Republican. Asian

2366
02:26:45,800 --> 02:26:49,680
Speaker 1: voters prefer Democrat over Republican uh from about like a

2367
02:26:49,680 --> 02:26:54,080
Speaker 1: two to one ratio, which is a seven. And Hispanic

2368
02:26:54,160 --> 02:26:59,720
Speaker 1: voters also favored Democrats at about Republicans have about twenty

2369
02:26:59,760 --> 02:27:03,640
Speaker 1: eight percent UM. And the other interesting and other interesting

2370
02:27:03,640 --> 02:27:07,840
Speaker 1: stat pulled from a Pure research center is that seventy

2371
02:27:08,160 --> 02:27:11,160
Speaker 1: percent of Republicans agree that party control of of of

2372
02:27:11,240 --> 02:27:14,160
Speaker 1: the House and Senate is an important factor, but only

2373
02:27:14,160 --> 02:27:19,279
Speaker 1: six of Democrats believe that, So that means of Democrats

2374
02:27:19,320 --> 02:27:22,840
Speaker 1: don't think that the House and Senate's important um which

2375
02:27:22,920 --> 02:27:26,360
Speaker 1: is a little wacky, which is also a down from

2376
02:27:26,360 --> 02:27:30,440
Speaker 1: seven points because uh in in the same in this

2377
02:27:30,600 --> 02:27:33,560
Speaker 1: under the same question, sixty seven percent of of of

2378
02:27:33,600 --> 02:27:38,199
Speaker 1: Democrats said that they valued House, House and Senate control.

2379
02:27:38,400 --> 02:27:40,720
Speaker 1: So that is so that that is down by almost

2380
02:27:40,720 --> 02:27:44,600
Speaker 1: ten percent. Meanwhile, the Republican percentage points of that question

2381
02:27:44,640 --> 02:27:47,280
Speaker 1: have has turned it upwards, which makes sense because of

2382
02:27:47,320 --> 02:27:52,400
Speaker 1: you know, whoever's affecting, who's ever in the executive branch. Well,

2383
02:27:52,520 --> 02:27:55,160
Speaker 1: we'll say, oh yeah, it's less important for the House

2384
02:27:55,160 --> 02:27:58,920
Speaker 1: and Senate, right, so Trump say it's it's less important

2385
02:27:59,040 --> 02:28:00,960
Speaker 1: now to them, it's more import rent, you know. And

2386
02:28:01,000 --> 02:28:02,720
Speaker 1: I also think with the Democrats, there's an angle of

2387
02:28:02,800 --> 02:28:05,600
Speaker 1: this which is like, okay, so we gave them power

2388
02:28:05,680 --> 02:28:09,920
Speaker 1: for two years and they did kind of nothing. Yeah,

2389
02:28:10,040 --> 02:28:13,720
Speaker 1: like it feels like nothing like they Actually that's that's

2390
02:28:13,720 --> 02:28:16,800
Speaker 1: not true. They gave they gave police more money. They

2391
02:28:16,840 --> 02:28:20,960
Speaker 1: gave they gave the Pentagon lots of lots of more money,

2392
02:28:21,000 --> 02:28:24,240
Speaker 1: the most about of money ever, largest budget ever, largest

2393
02:28:24,240 --> 02:28:28,760
Speaker 1: ice budget. With global warming, we're gonna need more ice, y'all, Like,

2394
02:28:28,879 --> 02:28:33,080
Speaker 1: come on, come on, uh huh. I'm sure that was it.

2395
02:28:33,200 --> 02:28:35,720
Speaker 1: That was the joke. That's the joke. Temperature joke. Yes,

2396
02:28:35,760 --> 02:28:39,560
Speaker 1: I understand. It's also a climate refugee joke though. Oh

2397
02:28:39,879 --> 02:28:43,320
Speaker 1: double double meanings, so we call it double on tombre.

2398
02:28:44,560 --> 02:28:49,640
Speaker 1: That's how you pronounced the French garrison. But yeah, it's

2399
02:28:49,680 --> 02:28:54,240
Speaker 1: only se of a female voters age have decided who

2400
02:28:54,240 --> 02:28:58,240
Speaker 1: they're going to vote for in November. Um, so that

2401
02:28:58,440 --> 02:29:03,000
Speaker 1: is wacky that with so many good choices, how could

2402
02:29:03,000 --> 02:29:08,160
Speaker 1: they not know? So yeah, they're really they're really really

2403
02:29:08,160 --> 02:29:10,880
Speaker 1: trying to pull from there. And where do women over

2404
02:29:10,920 --> 02:29:15,199
Speaker 1: fifty spend a lot of time on? Typically face? Facebook

2405
02:29:15,240 --> 02:29:19,520
Speaker 1: dot com? Um? So yeah, Facebook is Facebook and the

2406
02:29:19,560 --> 02:29:21,440
Speaker 1: GOP are really trying to do a lot of stuff

2407
02:29:21,440 --> 02:29:23,760
Speaker 1: to influence elections right now. As we detailed in our

2408
02:29:23,800 --> 02:29:27,480
Speaker 1: last episode around around Facebook and the GOP funding all

2409
02:29:27,520 --> 02:29:29,760
Speaker 1: of the anti TikTok stuff and funding all the pro

2410
02:29:29,840 --> 02:29:32,520
Speaker 1: Facebook stuff. They really want people to be on Facebook

2411
02:29:32,800 --> 02:29:35,320
Speaker 1: because it turns out that's how they spread their propaganda

2412
02:29:35,360 --> 02:29:39,400
Speaker 1: the best. Um. And yeah, specifically with women age over fifty,

2413
02:29:39,440 --> 02:29:48,320
Speaker 1: that's like the prime demographic for Facebook. So neat Uh yeah, anyway,

2414
02:29:48,360 --> 02:29:50,040
Speaker 1: that is uh. That is a lot of the uh,

2415
02:29:50,600 --> 02:29:53,160
Speaker 1: a lot of the election notes that I had because

2416
02:29:53,160 --> 02:29:55,480
Speaker 1: again I am as I keep up with all of

2417
02:29:55,480 --> 02:29:58,240
Speaker 1: the electoralisms. Basically every day I wake up, every morning,

2418
02:29:58,280 --> 02:30:02,400
Speaker 1: I go to I go to that one polling website. Um,

2419
02:30:02,760 --> 02:30:07,560
Speaker 1: and I fine, you text the word vote every single morning,

2420
02:30:10,200 --> 02:30:14,199
Speaker 1: always always here's what's weird, always using a different phone,

2421
02:30:16,800 --> 02:30:19,960
Speaker 1: tell us, tell us the truth. But that it's not

2422
02:30:20,000 --> 02:30:22,760
Speaker 1: that they're a pholster. It's that one day Nate Silver

2423
02:30:22,840 --> 02:30:25,880
Speaker 1: woke up with a splitting headache and Garrison leapt fully

2424
02:30:25,920 --> 02:30:28,280
Speaker 1: formed out of a hole in the side of his skull.

2425
02:30:31,160 --> 02:30:32,880
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, in terms of all of the

2426
02:30:32,920 --> 02:30:36,320
Speaker 1: anti trans stuff that it's actually worth focusing on. Obviously,

2427
02:30:36,320 --> 02:30:39,560
Speaker 1: the ices really really depressing in terms of by the

2428
02:30:39,600 --> 02:30:42,000
Speaker 1: getting an office and giving Ice millions and millions of

2429
02:30:42,040 --> 02:30:46,240
Speaker 1: more dollars, You're like, great, um, but you know, it

2430
02:30:46,280 --> 02:30:48,760
Speaker 1: seems like if more Democrats are in office right now,

2431
02:30:48,800 --> 02:30:51,120
Speaker 1: it seems like that will make life slightly easier for

2432
02:30:51,120 --> 02:30:54,400
Speaker 1: trans people. So that is it's, you know, it's the

2433
02:30:54,680 --> 02:30:57,640
Speaker 1: thing you always have to accept with our democracy, which

2434
02:30:57,720 --> 02:31:01,920
Speaker 1: is that it's foolish to say that the elections don't matter,

2435
02:31:02,000 --> 02:31:05,200
Speaker 1: because they do, because, for example, price caps on insulin

2436
02:31:05,440 --> 02:31:08,360
Speaker 1: or not passing more laws to make life a nightmare

2437
02:31:08,360 --> 02:31:12,279
Speaker 1: for trans people really does matter. But certain horrible things

2438
02:31:12,320 --> 02:31:17,240
Speaker 1: like the continued dominance of extractive industries that are pushing

2439
02:31:17,320 --> 02:31:21,520
Speaker 1: us towards climate disaster or uh, the expansion of the

2440
02:31:21,560 --> 02:31:25,280
Speaker 1: car Serile state and militarized policing in many different forms,

2441
02:31:25,280 --> 02:31:28,080
Speaker 1: in the militarization of the border. That's gonna keep right

2442
02:31:28,160 --> 02:31:30,800
Speaker 1: on trucking no matter who's in charge, and the elections

2443
02:31:30,879 --> 02:31:35,080
Speaker 1: don't matter for that so far. Maybe someday they will,

2444
02:31:35,160 --> 02:31:38,480
Speaker 1: but I'd have to see it happen, you know, I do.

2445
02:31:38,760 --> 02:31:41,680
Speaker 1: It's I do. Got good news for you, though, is

2446
02:31:41,720 --> 02:31:44,280
Speaker 1: that the White House is launching a new TikTok campaign

2447
02:31:44,280 --> 02:31:46,880
Speaker 1: and it already has a hundred followers. After like, what,

2448
02:31:46,879 --> 02:31:49,240
Speaker 1: why don't you? Why don't you refresh that TikTok air so,

2449
02:31:49,240 --> 02:31:51,200
Speaker 1: and let's see how much they've gained since we started

2450
02:31:51,200 --> 02:31:53,560
Speaker 1: this episode. I want to see what they're up to,

2451
02:31:55,040 --> 02:31:57,800
Speaker 1: because I'm curious if I've gained more followers on Twitter

2452
02:31:58,760 --> 02:32:04,400
Speaker 1: on TikTok a period of time. I'm checking, I'm checking,

2453
02:32:04,440 --> 02:32:07,600
Speaker 1: I'm checking. All right, here we go, I'm going to

2454
02:32:07,680 --> 02:32:11,800
Speaker 1: do it. Um. The the account is called building Back Together,

2455
02:32:13,480 --> 02:32:18,360
Speaker 1: so already pretty catchy. Um. How do they keep making

2456
02:32:18,360 --> 02:32:23,520
Speaker 1: these phrases worse? I know they cannot. Oh, they are

2457
02:32:23,560 --> 02:32:27,240
Speaker 1: actually up since so the the last news article I

2458
02:32:27,360 --> 02:32:30,760
Speaker 1: looked at, they had ninety four followers now they're up

2459
02:32:30,800 --> 02:32:33,760
Speaker 1: to a thousand and eight hundred. Okay, so no, thanks

2460
02:32:33,760 --> 02:32:39,000
Speaker 1: for going better. I think I think we got this.

2461
02:32:39,120 --> 02:32:44,680
Speaker 1: I think we got it. This is a good side anyway.

2462
02:32:44,920 --> 02:32:49,120
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a good there's an article about the uh,

2463
02:32:49,160 --> 02:32:51,640
Speaker 1: the millennial whisper or something like, oh wait no, sorry,

2464
02:32:51,640 --> 02:32:53,920
Speaker 1: it's DIM's turned to gen Z whisperer to show her

2465
02:32:54,000 --> 02:32:56,720
Speaker 1: up support. An article from a day ago from Real

2466
02:32:56,800 --> 02:33:02,520
Speaker 1: Clear Politics. Um, that's that's that's that's fun. You know what.

2467
02:33:02,600 --> 02:33:03,959
Speaker 1: You know what Biden has to do. Biden has to

2468
02:33:03,959 --> 02:33:06,520
Speaker 1: get Mr Beast on the job and start making those

2469
02:33:08,200 --> 02:33:10,040
Speaker 1: and then I think, I think, I think, I think

2470
02:33:10,040 --> 02:33:14,279
Speaker 1: we'll have this one in the bag. Um yeah, I mean, Garrison,

2471
02:33:14,480 --> 02:33:17,240
Speaker 1: just based on my knowledge of you, the main thing

2472
02:33:17,280 --> 02:33:20,480
Speaker 1: that Joseph Biden could do to prop up gen Z

2473
02:33:20,640 --> 02:33:24,920
Speaker 1: support is to just start air dropping hormones uh to

2474
02:33:25,200 --> 02:33:28,320
Speaker 1: whoever wants them. I think air dropped hormones and air

2475
02:33:28,400 --> 02:33:31,120
Speaker 1: dropped money. It would be the way to go, because

2476
02:33:31,440 --> 02:33:33,960
Speaker 1: could you could appeal to the right by giving them

2477
02:33:34,080 --> 02:33:36,480
Speaker 1: h g H. There's a lot of options here, Like,

2478
02:33:36,760 --> 02:33:39,680
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be just one. Everybody likes some

2479
02:33:39,800 --> 02:33:42,560
Speaker 1: kind of hormone. You know, hormones for all hormones for

2480
02:33:42,680 --> 02:33:47,200
Speaker 1: all steroids and estrogen for everybody. Well yeah, I mean

2481
02:33:47,240 --> 02:33:48,920
Speaker 1: like in terms of things that that Biden could do

2482
02:33:48,920 --> 02:33:51,400
Speaker 1: to actually gains to actually get stuff to do, get

2483
02:33:51,440 --> 02:33:53,480
Speaker 1: to like get enough support, is that he can start

2484
02:33:53,520 --> 02:33:57,800
Speaker 1: doing executive orders that actually do are that actually are helpful. Um,

2485
02:33:57,920 --> 02:33:59,720
Speaker 1: he could, we could, we could. They can really start

2486
02:33:59,800 --> 02:34:05,240
Speaker 1: rallying around the marijuana legalization bill. Um, Like they're like, hey,

2487
02:34:05,280 --> 02:34:08,600
Speaker 1: if you vote for Democrats in the Senate, we can

2488
02:34:08,600 --> 02:34:10,959
Speaker 1: pass this thing. But we need to have more Democrats

2489
02:34:11,000 --> 02:34:13,400
Speaker 1: in the side. Like they could do that, they could campaign,

2490
02:34:13,640 --> 02:34:17,520
Speaker 1: they could actually do things, but they're not that he could.

2491
02:34:17,560 --> 02:34:20,160
Speaker 1: He could. He could order the d e A to

2492
02:34:20,320 --> 02:34:26,160
Speaker 1: reschedule cannabis. That is a thing that the president can do. Um.

2493
02:34:26,240 --> 02:34:28,680
Speaker 1: He can do more stimulus checks, He can do a

2494
02:34:28,680 --> 02:34:30,800
Speaker 1: whole bunch of stuff. He could forgive a bunch of

2495
02:34:30,800 --> 02:34:34,880
Speaker 1: student loan that just honestly, making tangible progress on federal

2496
02:34:34,920 --> 02:34:38,800
Speaker 1: decriminalization of marijuana and forgiving a bunch of student debt

2497
02:34:39,640 --> 02:34:42,200
Speaker 1: uh in the time left before the midterms would be

2498
02:34:42,280 --> 02:34:43,880
Speaker 1: enough that it would be a lot harder for people

2499
02:34:43,879 --> 02:34:47,200
Speaker 1: to say Joe Biden didn't do anything. There is ways

2500
02:34:47,280 --> 02:34:50,640
Speaker 1: to counter the arguments. People are going to make the show,

2501
02:34:50,920 --> 02:34:54,320
Speaker 1: and by god, some of them are easy. Pot is

2502
02:34:54,959 --> 02:34:58,520
Speaker 1: a real, real free, free space. I most of my

2503
02:34:58,640 --> 02:35:02,360
Speaker 1: family are like super right wing and absolutely none of

2504
02:35:02,400 --> 02:35:05,920
Speaker 1: them support marijuana being illegal anymore. Most of them now

2505
02:35:06,000 --> 02:35:11,160
Speaker 1: smoke pot. Like It's like, you can make this happen, Joe. Unfortunately,

2506
02:35:11,200 --> 02:35:13,199
Speaker 1: the presidents of the United States is the man who

2507
02:35:13,320 --> 02:35:19,040
Speaker 1: wrote who wrote Planned Colombia, so oh just parts of it?

2508
02:35:19,200 --> 02:35:22,600
Speaker 1: Come on. He claimed responsibility for all of it. He did,

2509
02:35:22,640 --> 02:35:25,960
Speaker 1: he shure it really did. Know we're talking about it's

2510
02:35:26,040 --> 02:35:29,720
Speaker 1: super funny. Um, so not about all the deaths, because

2511
02:35:29,720 --> 02:35:31,800
Speaker 1: a lot of people died. But so that is our

2512
02:35:31,959 --> 02:35:34,560
Speaker 1: that's our little rundown on the terms as it stands

2513
02:35:34,560 --> 02:35:38,119
Speaker 1: at this moment. There still is primaries happening. Obviously that's

2514
02:35:38,120 --> 02:35:40,640
Speaker 1: gonna keep going. But yeah, if if if if, if,

2515
02:35:41,080 --> 02:35:43,440
Speaker 1: if the Democrats actually want to stay in office, which

2516
02:35:44,120 --> 02:35:46,120
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if they actually do, but but if

2517
02:35:46,120 --> 02:35:49,760
Speaker 1: they do, they could actually just start doing things, um,

2518
02:35:49,840 --> 02:35:52,160
Speaker 1: things that are not hard. That would that would that

2519
02:35:52,200 --> 02:35:54,560
Speaker 1: would that would actually you know, if you want young

2520
02:35:54,600 --> 02:35:57,400
Speaker 1: people to vote for you, maybe you could give them drugs,

2521
02:35:57,560 --> 02:36:00,640
Speaker 1: whether that be estrogen or weed and that right, I'm excited.

2522
02:36:01,080 --> 02:36:05,640
Speaker 1: Joe Biden's famous saying vote out with your scrots out

2523
02:36:21,040 --> 02:36:28,640
Speaker 1: do the thing, the thing, it's could happen here a podcast. Nope,

2524
02:36:28,879 --> 02:36:31,760
Speaker 1: it's it's it's start trying to happen, isn't it. They're

2525
02:36:31,800 --> 02:36:34,560
Speaker 1: really it's doing its best. You know, they're really going

2526
02:36:34,600 --> 02:36:38,359
Speaker 1: for us. What is you know that that thing by Yates,

2527
02:36:38,640 --> 02:36:41,800
Speaker 1: some great beasts slouching to be born, Time of Monsters,

2528
02:36:41,840 --> 02:36:43,680
Speaker 1: all that good stuff. That's what's going on here with

2529
02:36:43,800 --> 02:36:48,320
Speaker 1: it could happen here? It's the podcast. Garrison. Hi, how

2530
02:36:48,360 --> 02:36:52,520
Speaker 1: are we doing? So? We're talking about the still ongoing

2531
02:36:52,680 --> 02:36:56,800
Speaker 1: and probably well seemingly never ending. Hopefully it'll end eventually.

2532
02:36:57,360 --> 02:37:06,880
Speaker 1: Uh the hold up on that one here? The escalating

2533
02:37:06,879 --> 02:37:11,920
Speaker 1: more on trans people of yeah, and uh, we've we've

2534
02:37:12,000 --> 02:37:15,280
Speaker 1: brought on some some people who have been working to

2535
02:37:15,400 --> 02:37:18,800
Speaker 1: organize against the the kind of wave of bills and

2536
02:37:18,879 --> 02:37:24,560
Speaker 1: rhetoric and legislation targeting trans healthcare, targeting the just existence

2537
02:37:24,560 --> 02:37:27,840
Speaker 1: of trans people in general. We're talking to cat and

2538
02:37:27,879 --> 02:37:33,680
Speaker 1: Ada Roads from Tear it Up, a new newer organization, uh,

2539
02:37:33,760 --> 02:37:39,840
Speaker 1: dedicated to specifically specifically fighting against these these new bills. Hello,

2540
02:37:40,720 --> 02:37:47,400
Speaker 1: hey friends, Yes, thank you so much. Um, we've been,

2541
02:37:48,000 --> 02:37:50,039
Speaker 1: We've we've been. We've been talking for a bit because

2542
02:37:50,080 --> 02:37:53,440
Speaker 1: of how these bills have been also a thing for

2543
02:37:53,520 --> 02:37:57,280
Speaker 1: a bit. And uh we initially met up for trans

2544
02:37:57,400 --> 02:38:00,879
Speaker 1: day visibility. Uh I tagged a longing to go to

2545
02:38:01,160 --> 02:38:06,440
Speaker 1: a protest in Idaho. Um, and then we we got

2546
02:38:06,480 --> 02:38:10,240
Speaker 1: on on trans day visibility. We we we we cooked up,

2547
02:38:10,440 --> 02:38:13,440
Speaker 1: cooked up plans to sit down and have this chat.

2548
02:38:13,520 --> 02:38:16,119
Speaker 1: So it is. It is a little bit late, but hey,

2549
02:38:16,280 --> 02:38:20,000
Speaker 1: it's it doesn't Maybe we can have more than one day.

2550
02:38:20,680 --> 02:38:23,879
Speaker 1: Maybe that's a good idea. Well, we're not getting remembrance too,

2551
02:38:24,160 --> 02:38:27,280
Speaker 1: so yeah, well hopefully we can have more than two

2552
02:38:27,360 --> 02:38:31,240
Speaker 1: days and one of them not be just sad. Um. Yeah,

2553
02:38:31,280 --> 02:38:34,760
Speaker 1: probably too, because you know they're still attacking. Oh did

2554
02:38:34,800 --> 02:38:38,280
Speaker 1: they not? Did they not stop? No? No, our visibility

2555
02:38:38,320 --> 02:38:40,080
Speaker 1: did not, in fact scare them back into their cave.

2556
02:38:40,560 --> 02:38:42,880
Speaker 1: All right, this is why we need a trans day

2557
02:38:42,879 --> 02:38:47,880
Speaker 1: of one free murder. I love this plan. YEA currently

2558
02:38:48,760 --> 02:38:55,160
Speaker 1: a problems. Well that's a that's a great note to h.

2559
02:38:56,000 --> 02:39:01,760
Speaker 1: I mean, look, Caitlin Jinner already used hers. Jesus Christ,

2560
02:39:03,040 --> 02:39:09,320
Speaker 1: it's going to be my contribution for the Wow this

2561
02:39:09,400 --> 02:39:13,680
Speaker 1: is this is gonna really really convince all of the

2562
02:39:13,840 --> 02:39:16,040
Speaker 1: all of the on the edge libs who are somehow

2563
02:39:16,040 --> 02:39:20,400
Speaker 1: listening to this. They stumble upon it trying to find

2564
02:39:20,440 --> 02:39:25,560
Speaker 1: a recipe. They thought it was tear like a scale

2565
02:39:25,760 --> 02:39:27,520
Speaker 1: and they were like, I was trying to work my

2566
02:39:27,600 --> 02:39:32,920
Speaker 1: baking scale. What if I coul measure of lentils and

2567
02:39:32,959 --> 02:39:36,959
Speaker 1: then arm all your local trans women. I would like

2568
02:39:37,000 --> 02:39:39,760
Speaker 1: to make a very very trans cooking video in the

2569
02:39:39,800 --> 02:39:44,360
Speaker 1: style of David Lynch's keen my video of her. But

2570
02:39:44,640 --> 02:39:46,520
Speaker 1: that is that is a deep cut for all of

2571
02:39:46,560 --> 02:39:49,680
Speaker 1: the lynch heads out there, as Lynch fans called themselves. Anyway,

2572
02:39:49,840 --> 02:39:52,160
Speaker 1: we're talking about all of all of all the bills

2573
02:39:52,280 --> 02:39:56,440
Speaker 1: talking about um, all of the rhetoric that we've seen

2574
02:39:56,480 --> 02:39:59,840
Speaker 1: been specifically increasing the past, like the past week as

2575
02:39:59,840 --> 02:40:02,640
Speaker 1: of recording broad past, you know, maybe a week or

2576
02:40:02,680 --> 02:40:06,520
Speaker 1: two as of time of release. For they're like, they're

2577
02:40:06,640 --> 02:40:09,680
Speaker 1: they're really going for it for trying to get people

2578
02:40:09,800 --> 02:40:13,920
Speaker 1: to do like just violence against people who don't look

2579
02:40:14,080 --> 02:40:16,400
Speaker 1: like how they want them to look. And that's that's

2580
02:40:16,400 --> 02:40:19,959
Speaker 1: basically what they're trying to do. And we we're gonna

2581
02:40:19,959 --> 02:40:22,119
Speaker 1: We're not talking on and we're talking a variety of

2582
02:40:22,200 --> 02:40:25,959
Speaker 1: topics between we're gonna talk. We're gonna unfortunately discuss like

2583
02:40:25,959 --> 02:40:27,680
Speaker 1: the groomer thing. We'll talk about all the bills that

2584
02:40:27,720 --> 02:40:30,240
Speaker 1: haven't haven't passed in different ways that we can kind

2585
02:40:30,240 --> 02:40:33,560
Speaker 1: of stand up against this this this thing that's really

2586
02:40:33,560 --> 02:40:36,320
Speaker 1: trying to take take a hold. UM. I guess I

2587
02:40:36,320 --> 02:40:39,640
Speaker 1: would like to start by discussing the origin of of

2588
02:40:39,840 --> 02:40:41,879
Speaker 1: of Tear it Up and like, how you know what

2589
02:40:41,879 --> 02:40:45,520
Speaker 1: what happened to I mean, obviously we know what happened

2590
02:40:45,520 --> 02:40:47,520
Speaker 1: to cause this distuct to have to cause this thing

2591
02:40:47,560 --> 02:40:49,320
Speaker 1: to be prompted, but yeah, what was what was like

2592
02:40:49,480 --> 02:40:52,240
Speaker 1: the specific process of being like, okay, it's it's all

2593
02:40:52,280 --> 02:40:55,440
Speaker 1: these things are happening. Let's actually get a group of

2594
02:40:55,440 --> 02:40:59,440
Speaker 1: people together to organize this thing across the country. Yeah,

2595
02:40:59,680 --> 02:41:04,320
Speaker 1: I guess I can talk about that. So Tear it

2596
02:41:04,400 --> 02:41:09,360
Speaker 1: Up actually grew pretty directly out of a previous group

2597
02:41:09,360 --> 02:41:12,560
Speaker 1: called TROT and Texas, which is the trans Resistance of Texas,

2598
02:41:13,200 --> 02:41:18,039
Speaker 1: which started last year during their legislative session UM, and

2599
02:41:18,040 --> 02:41:20,880
Speaker 1: then really started to grow during the special sessions in

2600
02:41:20,920 --> 02:41:26,160
Speaker 1: response to this constant line of attack and realizing that

2601
02:41:27,480 --> 02:41:31,600
Speaker 1: the techniques and the strategy is being employed by a

2602
02:41:31,600 --> 02:41:35,199
Speaker 1: lot of the existing more liberal leaning groups were really

2603
02:41:35,240 --> 02:41:39,280
Speaker 1: focused on like back room conversations and deals and using

2604
02:41:39,320 --> 02:41:42,640
Speaker 1: like procedure to defeat things instead of actually like mobilizing

2605
02:41:42,680 --> 02:41:50,360
Speaker 1: people against anti trans state violence. UM and uh. From

2606
02:41:50,400 --> 02:41:53,720
Speaker 1: there we started to adopt things like louder, more obnoxious protests,

2607
02:41:53,959 --> 02:42:00,280
Speaker 1: a lot of stickering, firing posters. Um. And then this year,

2608
02:42:02,080 --> 02:42:04,880
Speaker 1: I so I originally started TROT, but I moved across

2609
02:42:04,920 --> 02:42:06,959
Speaker 1: the country and I was like, wow, ship, things are

2610
02:42:07,000 --> 02:42:10,240
Speaker 1: just getting worse everywhere. Um and I have a lot

2611
02:42:10,280 --> 02:42:13,160
Speaker 1: of friends all over the country from living in Portland

2612
02:42:13,240 --> 02:42:16,560
Speaker 1: and New York and Texas and Colorado and now the Midwest,

2613
02:42:16,840 --> 02:42:19,920
Speaker 1: and reached out to sort of pull together a bunch

2614
02:42:19,920 --> 02:42:23,240
Speaker 1: of humans that I knew would be willing to fight

2615
02:42:23,280 --> 02:42:26,840
Speaker 1: back and to try and experiment with methods that we

2616
02:42:26,879 --> 02:42:30,920
Speaker 1: can pick up from our predecessors, like act up and

2617
02:42:32,200 --> 02:42:35,720
Speaker 1: bring more attention and mobilize people more towards taking direct

2618
02:42:35,760 --> 02:42:40,800
Speaker 1: action instead of relying on these back room lobbing groups

2619
02:42:40,840 --> 02:42:43,440
Speaker 1: I don't think really give a funk about trans people,

2620
02:42:43,520 --> 02:42:47,279
Speaker 1: but love to use attacks on us to raise money. Yeah, yeah,

2621
02:42:47,320 --> 02:42:50,360
Speaker 1: I mean there's a number of number of examples we

2622
02:42:50,400 --> 02:42:52,080
Speaker 1: could point to do, but I think we could be

2623
02:42:52,120 --> 02:42:58,320
Speaker 1: more productive and just talk about you guys instead of yeah.

2624
02:42:58,800 --> 02:43:04,400
Speaker 1: So yeah, I really the transnational thing is really interesting

2625
02:43:04,480 --> 02:43:07,400
Speaker 1: point how it's like, I know, for for trans Day visibility,

2626
02:43:07,440 --> 02:43:10,119
Speaker 1: there was there was an organized kind of die ins

2627
02:43:10,160 --> 02:43:13,039
Speaker 1: and protests all across the country to happen at the

2628
02:43:13,080 --> 02:43:16,560
Speaker 1: same day. Obviously, Um, there was one in Idaho, which

2629
02:43:17,480 --> 02:43:22,400
Speaker 1: I was lucky enough to join in on. Um. And yeah,

2630
02:43:22,480 --> 02:43:24,520
Speaker 1: but there was there was, there was a lot of them,

2631
02:43:24,640 --> 02:43:29,039
Speaker 1: and I guess, yeah, it's on on the lead up

2632
02:43:29,160 --> 02:43:34,160
Speaker 1: to like as as all of these bills are escalating. Um.

2633
02:43:34,280 --> 02:43:36,440
Speaker 1: And then there was the whole there was the whole

2634
02:43:36,520 --> 02:43:39,520
Speaker 1: um wave of organizing against trans people for the so

2635
02:43:39,600 --> 02:43:42,320
Speaker 1: called like the Transition Day, which is really unfortunate because

2636
02:43:42,680 --> 02:43:44,320
Speaker 1: there actually it would be a great discussion to be

2637
02:43:44,360 --> 02:43:47,320
Speaker 1: had there on people who choose to not continue on

2638
02:43:47,360 --> 02:43:50,960
Speaker 1: with transition, but it's been so used by turfs and

2639
02:43:51,000 --> 02:43:53,879
Speaker 1: the gender critical movement that it's now just like it's

2640
02:43:53,920 --> 02:43:58,360
Speaker 1: just it's just another day for more transphobia. Just really unfortunate, Um,

2641
02:43:58,440 --> 02:44:00,160
Speaker 1: but we have that happening at the same time, was

2642
02:44:00,240 --> 02:44:02,800
Speaker 1: all of all of these bills and then we're like, okay,

2643
02:44:02,879 --> 02:44:05,480
Speaker 1: so what what what was what was kind of the

2644
02:44:05,480 --> 02:44:08,280
Speaker 1: stuff that prompted all of the guy ins And how

2645
02:44:08,320 --> 02:44:10,320
Speaker 1: are you like, um, talking with people in all the

2646
02:44:10,440 --> 02:44:12,680
Speaker 1: in all the different states to kind of organize this

2647
02:44:12,720 --> 02:44:15,800
Speaker 1: thing together but still also like separately for each location.

2648
02:44:17,760 --> 02:44:19,360
Speaker 1: One of the points that I'd like to come back to,

2649
02:44:19,400 --> 02:44:21,400
Speaker 1: like we're going to talk a little bit more about

2650
02:44:21,400 --> 02:44:23,800
Speaker 1: the details of the you know, some some of the

2651
02:44:23,840 --> 02:44:27,360
Speaker 1: specific legislation that has that has astolained a law and

2652
02:44:27,400 --> 02:44:29,360
Speaker 1: some of the other legislation that has not been able

2653
02:44:29,400 --> 02:44:31,920
Speaker 1: to pass into law. Um. And you know, we're we're

2654
02:44:32,000 --> 02:44:34,440
Speaker 1: drawing a contrast between ourselves and some of Tear it

2655
02:44:34,480 --> 02:44:37,320
Speaker 1: Up is drawing a contrast between itself and some of

2656
02:44:37,360 --> 02:44:42,360
Speaker 1: these more you know, institutionalist liberal organizations. UM. Not because

2657
02:44:42,440 --> 02:44:47,280
Speaker 1: that they not because they can't succeed in their stated goals. Sometimes,

2658
02:44:47,360 --> 02:44:49,080
Speaker 1: right like the A C. L you will sue on

2659
02:44:49,160 --> 02:44:53,120
Speaker 1: some of these things of those lawsuits. Maybe maybe something

2660
02:44:53,160 --> 02:44:55,480
Speaker 1: worth celebrating. What's happening in Texas right now is a

2661
02:44:55,480 --> 02:44:58,160
Speaker 1: great example of that. But that said, right, so, like

2662
02:44:58,400 --> 02:45:01,480
Speaker 1: we we can acknowledge that the that these more institutionalist

2663
02:45:02,120 --> 02:45:04,960
Speaker 1: tactics can can lead to you know, like it's a

2664
02:45:04,959 --> 02:45:08,320
Speaker 1: better outcome that these laws do not succeed obviously, Um,

2665
02:45:08,360 --> 02:45:11,840
Speaker 1: But there's the impacts of this legislation, and the discussion

2666
02:45:11,920 --> 02:45:15,520
Speaker 1: around this legislation is so much bigger and so much

2667
02:45:15,560 --> 02:45:19,760
Speaker 1: more profound than any of these individual laws. You know,

2668
02:45:19,760 --> 02:45:22,879
Speaker 1: is specifically looking at them, um in terms of their

2669
02:45:22,920 --> 02:45:26,199
Speaker 1: like material impact in people's lives, which are already abysmally

2670
02:45:26,280 --> 02:45:30,480
Speaker 1: fucking awful. But like the what the place that teared

2671
02:45:30,560 --> 02:45:36,400
Speaker 1: up is looking to kind of champion is but kind

2672
02:45:36,400 --> 02:45:40,680
Speaker 1: of hell raising that like enables us to empower each other,

2673
02:45:41,040 --> 02:45:44,039
Speaker 1: that enables us to be visible in a way that

2674
02:45:44,240 --> 02:45:48,720
Speaker 1: shows people on the ground all across the country that

2675
02:45:48,920 --> 02:45:52,680
Speaker 1: like that we are not just a a minority to

2676
02:45:52,879 --> 02:45:57,120
Speaker 1: be destroyed and ignored. That we're going to fight for ourselves.

2677
02:45:57,200 --> 02:45:58,960
Speaker 1: We're going to fight for each other. We're gonna fight

2678
02:45:59,000 --> 02:46:01,080
Speaker 1: for our kids, we're gonna fight for our families, and

2679
02:46:01,120 --> 02:46:03,280
Speaker 1: we're gonna fight for our rights, and we're gonna do

2680
02:46:03,360 --> 02:46:06,280
Speaker 1: it loud and as ugly as we need to in

2681
02:46:06,360 --> 02:46:10,240
Speaker 1: order to make sure that trans pain is visible. Yeah,

2682
02:46:10,280 --> 02:46:17,119
Speaker 1: And building on that, um that when we look at

2683
02:46:17,120 --> 02:46:24,080
Speaker 1: the start of last month March or I guess late February. Um,

2684
02:46:24,120 --> 02:46:28,240
Speaker 1: I think Texas was really kind of the flash point

2685
02:46:28,280 --> 02:46:30,120
Speaker 1: and a lot of the country on this where we

2686
02:46:30,200 --> 02:46:32,880
Speaker 1: had a lot of these bills sort of boiling. UM.

2687
02:46:32,920 --> 02:46:38,039
Speaker 1: I believe they are around seven D active at that point. Um.

2688
02:46:38,040 --> 02:46:41,520
Speaker 1: We're now down to like the high sixties, so that's better.

2689
02:46:42,040 --> 02:46:45,959
Speaker 1: But that was really where stuff started to boil over

2690
02:46:46,080 --> 02:46:51,520
Speaker 1: on this and we looked around and saw that the

2691
02:46:51,600 --> 02:46:54,080
Speaker 1: fight needed to focus on trans survival more than just

2692
02:46:54,160 --> 02:46:59,119
Speaker 1: the bills. And the bills are important to defeat because

2693
02:46:59,520 --> 02:47:02,960
Speaker 1: they're things trying to exterminate us. There's things that are

2694
02:47:02,959 --> 02:47:06,600
Speaker 1: trying to take families apart, to take away the things

2695
02:47:06,640 --> 02:47:10,080
Speaker 1: that are helping people stay alive, and to remove trans

2696
02:47:10,160 --> 02:47:14,760
Speaker 1: people from accessing public life, and that's going to really

2697
02:47:14,920 --> 02:47:18,560
Speaker 1: ruin a lot of humans. But we need to not

2698
02:47:18,640 --> 02:47:20,879
Speaker 1: just look at that individual fight and remember we're fighting

2699
02:47:20,959 --> 02:47:25,400
Speaker 1: for survival and we're fighting for each other and trans

2700
02:47:25,440 --> 02:47:27,959
Speaker 1: people as a community. We've always had to kind of

2701
02:47:27,959 --> 02:47:30,920
Speaker 1: rely on each other via various means, be at like

2702
02:47:31,400 --> 02:47:35,560
Speaker 1: Susan's place, or like go back to like Transvestia even

2703
02:47:35,680 --> 02:47:39,600
Speaker 1: and like these systems that weren't necessarily always and these

2704
02:47:40,120 --> 02:47:45,920
Speaker 1: forms of communication that weren't always focused on um necessarily

2705
02:47:46,000 --> 02:47:49,040
Speaker 1: legal winds in the more traditional sense and more just

2706
02:47:49,080 --> 02:47:52,160
Speaker 1: like forming community, even if those communities weren't necessarily great.

2707
02:47:52,200 --> 02:47:56,039
Speaker 1: In the case of like Transvestia and like some of

2708
02:47:56,040 --> 02:48:00,959
Speaker 1: those much more um respectable leaning groups, could you try

2709
02:48:01,120 --> 02:48:03,600
Speaker 1: a little talk a little bit about what Transvestia and

2710
02:48:03,600 --> 02:48:05,560
Speaker 1: Susan's place work, because I'm gonna guess a lot of

2711
02:48:05,560 --> 02:48:07,959
Speaker 1: people listening are not going to be super familiar with

2712
02:48:08,000 --> 02:48:11,240
Speaker 1: that history. I kind of am only casually heard anything

2713
02:48:11,280 --> 02:48:14,400
Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, so I'm a bit of a queer

2714
02:48:14,440 --> 02:48:17,320
Speaker 1: history nerd um, and you can learn a lot about this. Actually,

2715
02:48:17,360 --> 02:48:22,320
Speaker 1: I have a can I plug my podcast? What we

2716
02:48:22,360 --> 02:48:24,360
Speaker 1: would like to do is provide people with an ability

2717
02:48:24,400 --> 02:48:26,720
Speaker 1: to learn more about this kind of stuff. So yeah,

2718
02:48:26,760 --> 02:48:30,680
Speaker 1: please Yeah. So I'm part of the totally trans podcast network.

2719
02:48:31,000 --> 02:48:33,640
Speaker 1: Um you can pronounce some parrot twitter at like totally

2720
02:48:33,640 --> 02:48:37,480
Speaker 1: TransPod um. But we talked a lot about trans and

2721
02:48:37,560 --> 02:48:39,880
Speaker 1: queer history through the lens of like looking at it

2722
02:48:39,959 --> 02:48:43,440
Speaker 1: through pop culture and reading stuff into like The Little

2723
02:48:43,440 --> 02:48:46,520
Speaker 1: Mermaid and things. Um. So we go in a lot

2724
02:48:46,600 --> 02:48:49,080
Speaker 1: about Virginia Prince and transvestia in there, because I'm kind

2725
02:48:49,080 --> 02:48:52,200
Speaker 1: of obsessed with this human from the nineteen sixties who

2726
02:48:52,280 --> 02:48:55,800
Speaker 1: was like the first Twitter trans girl. Um, she was

2727
02:48:55,959 --> 02:49:01,120
Speaker 1: very problematic, super racist and classist, and her argument was

2728
02:49:01,640 --> 02:49:06,680
Speaker 1: she led to a lot of twentieth century confusion by saying, uh,

2729
02:49:06,760 --> 02:49:10,080
Speaker 1: that there's like heterosexual transvestites, which are what we would

2730
02:49:10,120 --> 02:49:12,480
Speaker 1: now just call like trans lesbians, and then like the

2731
02:49:12,560 --> 02:49:15,680
Speaker 1: homosexual transsexual, which is now what we would call straight

2732
02:49:16,800 --> 02:49:21,760
Speaker 1: trans folks, and that the homosexual transsexuals are bad and

2733
02:49:21,800 --> 02:49:25,640
Speaker 1: should be shunned, but the heterosexual transvestite should maintain all

2734
02:49:25,680 --> 02:49:29,080
Speaker 1: of her previous privileges. Uh. And she put out this

2735
02:49:29,160 --> 02:49:33,160
Speaker 1: magazine called Transvestia. She famously also got in trouble for

2736
02:49:33,240 --> 02:49:36,000
Speaker 1: sending nudes in the mail to another trans girl across

2737
02:49:36,040 --> 02:49:41,920
Speaker 1: the country. Um. Yeah, fascinating historical figure who kind of

2738
02:49:43,080 --> 02:49:47,800
Speaker 1: the curve historically in terms of sending nudes. That's that's

2739
02:49:47,800 --> 02:49:53,280
Speaker 1: groundbreaking with stuff. But Transvestia, though I did have this

2740
02:49:53,360 --> 02:49:57,240
Speaker 1: big cultural impact on sort of being an early trans zine.

2741
02:49:57,320 --> 02:50:00,480
Speaker 1: Shortly after it we start to see drag, which it

2742
02:50:00,600 --> 02:50:03,720
Speaker 1: was much more focused on like the homosexual trans sexual

2743
02:50:04,040 --> 02:50:08,320
Speaker 1: and more like sexually liberated takes through like the seventies

2744
02:50:08,400 --> 02:50:11,280
Speaker 1: and then later, UM, my favorite scene like gender Trash

2745
02:50:11,320 --> 02:50:15,800
Speaker 1: from how which uh was out of Toronto and like

2746
02:50:15,840 --> 02:50:21,199
Speaker 1: the nineties and was very confrontational about trans rights. So

2747
02:50:21,400 --> 02:50:24,600
Speaker 1: we sort of exist in this larger history where we're

2748
02:50:24,640 --> 02:50:29,080
Speaker 1: looking at how trans community has survived and formed and

2749
02:50:29,160 --> 02:50:32,920
Speaker 1: learning from things like star UM, which was the street

2750
02:50:32,959 --> 02:50:37,080
Speaker 1: Transvestitate Action Revolutionaries UM out of New York with Marcia P.

2751
02:50:37,200 --> 02:50:40,800
Speaker 1: Johnson and Sylvia Rivera, as well as UM act up

2752
02:50:40,840 --> 02:50:44,360
Speaker 1: and HIV activism, And we're trying to take what we

2753
02:50:44,400 --> 02:50:46,959
Speaker 1: can learn from our ancestors and apply it to our

2754
02:50:46,959 --> 02:50:50,480
Speaker 1: current survival and play you with it a little bit

2755
02:50:50,520 --> 02:50:56,360
Speaker 1: and update some of their tactics because I don't think

2756
02:50:56,480 --> 02:50:59,760
Speaker 1: traditional non violent protests the way it existed in the

2757
02:50:59,760 --> 02:51:04,440
Speaker 1: past gets attention anymore. UM, I think when you figure

2758
02:51:04,440 --> 02:51:06,360
Speaker 1: out ways to be louder about it. And I'm a

2759
02:51:07,000 --> 02:51:10,160
Speaker 1: I'm personally a devout pacivest other people aren't, and that's

2760
02:51:10,280 --> 02:51:14,360
Speaker 1: a okay. UM, I'm a good Quaker girl. But um,

2761
02:51:15,520 --> 02:51:17,880
Speaker 1: we need to be seen. We need our lives to

2762
02:51:17,920 --> 02:51:20,039
Speaker 1: be seen, and we need our value as humans to

2763
02:51:20,040 --> 02:51:24,520
Speaker 1: be seen so that we can love ourselves and each

2764
02:51:24,560 --> 02:51:27,000
Speaker 1: other enough to survive this horrible ship that's going to

2765
02:51:27,200 --> 02:51:30,680
Speaker 1: continue happening to us over the next couple of years. Yeah,

2766
02:51:31,200 --> 02:51:35,000
Speaker 1: I'm wanna be back on that with with one thought that, um,

2767
02:51:35,040 --> 02:51:37,400
Speaker 1: we're talking about this sort of like that, this history

2768
02:51:37,480 --> 02:51:39,640
Speaker 1: of trans people drawing together to take care of each other,

2769
02:51:40,560 --> 02:51:44,360
Speaker 1: and you know, I'm just thinking about how today, Uh,

2770
02:51:44,560 --> 02:51:48,440
Speaker 1: Marjorie Taylor Green releases a video that, amongst a bunch

2771
02:51:48,440 --> 02:51:53,160
Speaker 1: of other just like terrifying, awful, and occasionally super funny

2772
02:51:53,200 --> 02:51:58,360
Speaker 1: and it's incredible stupidity. Um, things that she's claiming in

2773
02:51:58,400 --> 02:52:01,160
Speaker 1: this video or that, like trans p bowl are basically

2774
02:52:01,320 --> 02:52:05,120
Speaker 1: like the you know, the barbarian hordes that have come

2775
02:52:05,160 --> 02:52:08,120
Speaker 1: to destroy Western civilization. And she's you know, she says

2776
02:52:08,160 --> 02:52:11,199
Speaker 1: with a straight face, like, you know, the late Rome

2777
02:52:11,360 --> 02:52:16,480
Speaker 1: and modern America are very similar. Of us rely heavily

2778
02:52:16,600 --> 02:52:20,120
Speaker 1: on Verrangian mercenaries in order to maintain the sanctity of

2779
02:52:20,160 --> 02:52:22,840
Speaker 1: our borders. I always wanted to be a wizard, but

2780
02:52:22,879 --> 02:52:25,480
Speaker 1: I guess I'm a barbarian. But I bring that up

2781
02:52:25,520 --> 02:52:29,800
Speaker 1: because there is this impression of transpower that like trans people,

2782
02:52:30,680 --> 02:52:33,360
Speaker 1: that is a result of our increased visibility, you know,

2783
02:52:33,400 --> 02:52:37,000
Speaker 1: like what the media called the transgender tipping point because

2784
02:52:37,000 --> 02:52:39,080
Speaker 1: suddenly people were like, oh, I guess liver and Cox

2785
02:52:39,120 --> 02:52:43,720
Speaker 1: gets to exist. But like, uh, with this increased visibility,

2786
02:52:43,800 --> 02:52:46,959
Speaker 1: is this impression that we have this like incredible magical

2787
02:52:47,120 --> 02:52:51,720
Speaker 1: cosmic powers to seduce your people and ruin your civilization

2788
02:52:51,879 --> 02:52:54,480
Speaker 1: or whatever. And like actually, like when I so I

2789
02:52:55,000 --> 02:53:00,160
Speaker 1: canut four three five, and like I never imagined old

2790
02:53:00,160 --> 02:53:02,440
Speaker 1: where we could even get healthcare covered when I was

2791
02:53:02,480 --> 02:53:05,640
Speaker 1: like I was like a kid organizing with Camp trans

2792
02:53:05,680 --> 02:53:08,320
Speaker 1: out in the woods of Michigan, and like I knew

2793
02:53:08,360 --> 02:53:13,120
Speaker 1: people who got orchie actomys in Barns. I every single

2794
02:53:13,160 --> 02:53:16,560
Speaker 1: trans woman. I knew everything that they knew about how

2795
02:53:16,640 --> 02:53:21,840
Speaker 1: to like get hormones and like manage their own transition

2796
02:53:21,920 --> 02:53:25,840
Speaker 1: and like endercan system. Uh they learned from message boards.

2797
02:53:26,160 --> 02:53:29,879
Speaker 1: It was the only collective knowledge in existence that was

2798
02:53:29,879 --> 02:53:32,920
Speaker 1: like accessible to people. Because if you went to your doctor,

2799
02:53:33,240 --> 02:53:35,520
Speaker 1: unless you lived in San Francisco or New York and

2800
02:53:35,560 --> 02:53:38,440
Speaker 1: we're particularly well connected, the response you were going to

2801
02:53:38,480 --> 02:53:43,680
Speaker 1: get is, I don't know, are you a demon? Right? Yeah? No, absolutely.

2802
02:53:43,720 --> 02:53:45,840
Speaker 1: That That's the one thing I found it, um really

2803
02:53:45,920 --> 02:53:48,560
Speaker 1: insightful talking to the older trans people that I know,

2804
02:53:48,720 --> 02:53:52,320
Speaker 1: because I'm like you know, a gym gen Z gender

2805
02:53:52,360 --> 02:53:55,560
Speaker 1: queer person on hormones. And it's very different because when

2806
02:53:55,560 --> 02:53:58,920
Speaker 1: when when I've been talking to the my my transgender

2807
02:53:59,160 --> 02:54:01,320
Speaker 1: friends who are older, it's like, yeah, all of these

2808
02:54:01,320 --> 02:54:06,160
Speaker 1: bills are just are a reaction to the increased visibility

2809
02:54:06,160 --> 02:54:09,160
Speaker 1: and increased well being of transpeople. Right. It's putting, it's

2810
02:54:09,200 --> 02:54:11,560
Speaker 1: putting things that used to be kind of just like

2811
02:54:12,040 --> 02:54:15,320
Speaker 1: unspoken or like obvious bigotry, it's putting now that that's

2812
02:54:15,320 --> 02:54:18,440
Speaker 1: actually progressing. It's now putting that that old bigotry into

2813
02:54:18,520 --> 02:54:20,840
Speaker 1: actual law because they're like, oh no, we don't want

2814
02:54:20,840 --> 02:54:23,200
Speaker 1: things to progress further. So it's a it's a purposeful

2815
02:54:23,320 --> 02:54:26,240
Speaker 1: sliding back. Um. So it's just like for a lot

2816
02:54:26,240 --> 02:54:28,240
Speaker 1: of people who are older, it doesn't even seem that new.

2817
02:54:28,480 --> 02:54:30,959
Speaker 1: It's just seemed to be. It's it's resurfacing. The things

2818
02:54:31,000 --> 02:54:33,880
Speaker 1: that were used to be normalized are now becoming you know,

2819
02:54:34,120 --> 02:54:37,279
Speaker 1: are becoming more obviously bigoted. But they're putting that bigotry

2820
02:54:37,320 --> 02:54:40,760
Speaker 1: into actual law. Um. And that's the Yeah, that's the

2821
02:54:40,840 --> 02:54:43,720
Speaker 1: kind of interesting point is because for there's a whole

2822
02:54:43,720 --> 02:54:48,039
Speaker 1: bunch of people who believe that like the transgenderisms and

2823
02:54:48,160 --> 02:54:51,600
Speaker 1: the gender ideology is like a point of power. It's

2824
02:54:51,600 --> 02:54:55,720
Speaker 1: like because it's affiliated with the left um and the

2825
02:54:55,840 --> 02:54:59,400
Speaker 1: left is seen as like the power it's it's then

2826
02:54:59,440 --> 02:55:02,160
Speaker 1: like therefore you're actually punching up on it, which is

2827
02:55:02,200 --> 02:55:04,680
Speaker 1: of course entirely backwards. Like that, none of that. If

2828
02:55:04,680 --> 02:55:06,960
Speaker 1: you have any political analysis, you'll you'll know like, oh,

2829
02:55:07,040 --> 02:55:09,560
Speaker 1: that's not how anything works. But yeah, these people in

2830
02:55:09,800 --> 02:55:12,640
Speaker 1: their minds, they think they're actually pushing up against like

2831
02:55:12,840 --> 02:55:16,800
Speaker 1: the like the powerful forces of transgenderism. You're like, no,

2832
02:55:17,000 --> 02:55:19,560
Speaker 1: we're just like pugs who are poor, who are trying

2833
02:55:19,600 --> 02:55:21,760
Speaker 1: to who are trying to get our homeown injections like

2834
02:55:21,920 --> 02:55:24,720
Speaker 1: leave us aloud. I can't remember. It was like Tom

2835
02:55:24,800 --> 02:55:29,720
Speaker 1: Cotton or Matt Gates. Yeah, one of those guys, one

2836
02:55:29,720 --> 02:55:34,320
Speaker 1: of the Pentagone guys, right, being like yelling at him

2837
02:55:34,400 --> 02:55:37,640
Speaker 1: because you know, our military is being destroyed because somebody

2838
02:55:37,720 --> 02:55:41,040
Speaker 1: put the class about like respecting someone's pronouns and the

2839
02:55:41,080 --> 02:55:44,000
Speaker 1: guy's responses like we can obliterate any target on the

2840
02:55:44,160 --> 02:55:47,320
Speaker 1: entire planet with no effort, Like what the are you

2841
02:55:47,400 --> 02:55:52,440
Speaker 1: talking about? There's there's that great there's that horrible, great

2842
02:55:52,440 --> 02:55:56,359
Speaker 1: tweet about the person that runs that four Chune trans account,

2843
02:55:56,360 --> 02:55:59,879
Speaker 1: who's who is who is like this? This trends person

2844
02:56:00,120 --> 02:56:03,480
Speaker 1: was like a war criminal because they sell weapons. It was,

2845
02:56:03,560 --> 02:56:07,400
Speaker 1: it was, it was so wonderful sweet for a few

2846
02:56:07,480 --> 02:56:10,640
Speaker 1: days ago, I mean one of I mean famously, a

2847
02:56:10,640 --> 02:56:13,440
Speaker 1: lot of companies in the arms industry, like Raytheon, have

2848
02:56:13,520 --> 02:56:16,400
Speaker 1: a great reputation for hiring trans people because all Raytheon

2849
02:56:16,520 --> 02:56:19,000
Speaker 1: cares about is you can go to missile guidance chip.

2850
02:56:19,200 --> 02:56:24,160
Speaker 1: That's all that matters to Raytheon. They're they're they're very woke. Yeah,

2851
02:56:24,200 --> 02:56:26,480
Speaker 1: but it is, it is. It is intriguing to watch

2852
02:56:26,640 --> 02:56:30,440
Speaker 1: these people really justify their transphobia as a form of

2853
02:56:30,480 --> 02:56:34,240
Speaker 1: fighting against the system because they have somehow affiliated of

2854
02:56:34,920 --> 02:56:37,879
Speaker 1: being trans with the Democratic Party. Therefore it's affiliated with

2855
02:56:37,879 --> 02:56:41,400
Speaker 1: the establishment. Therefore it's actually this force of power, which

2856
02:56:41,680 --> 02:56:44,840
Speaker 1: none none of that's, none of that's true, but that

2857
02:56:44,879 --> 02:56:47,520
Speaker 1: propaganda is shown to be very effective. Um, the people

2858
02:56:47,520 --> 02:56:49,480
Speaker 1: seem really convinced by that because it's it's it's a

2859
02:56:49,480 --> 02:56:51,800
Speaker 1: story that's easy to glom onto. And as long as

2860
02:56:51,840 --> 02:56:53,640
Speaker 1: we have a story that we can glom onto, then

2861
02:56:53,640 --> 02:56:55,720
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what's true or not. It's it's all

2862
02:56:55,760 --> 02:56:59,360
Speaker 1: of the stories are what's actually true. Um, So, yeah,

2863
02:56:59,360 --> 02:57:02,360
Speaker 1: that is an an intriguing an intriguing point in terms

2864
02:57:02,360 --> 02:57:06,640
Speaker 1: of how yeah, how how it's how stuff has changed

2865
02:57:06,640 --> 02:57:09,360
Speaker 1: from like transphobia ten years ago for the transphobia now

2866
02:57:09,879 --> 02:57:13,039
Speaker 1: how that was resurfacing some things that used to be

2867
02:57:13,920 --> 02:57:18,959
Speaker 1: used to just take shape in a slightly different form. Yeah. Well,

2868
02:57:20,480 --> 02:57:23,000
Speaker 1: and so Cat's experiences in two thousand and four, if

2869
02:57:23,000 --> 02:57:27,199
Speaker 1: you pass forward a decade, because I'm a little younger

2870
02:57:27,360 --> 02:57:32,480
Speaker 1: than Cat, but not a lot younger than Cat. Um

2871
02:57:32,879 --> 02:57:36,680
Speaker 1: around like I was trying to get on hormones. We

2872
02:57:36,680 --> 02:57:39,959
Speaker 1: also had like r l E. Big kiddos these days

2873
02:57:40,040 --> 02:57:45,960
Speaker 1: know what that was the real so it's real life experience, yeah, um,

2874
02:57:46,040 --> 02:57:50,120
Speaker 1: which is basically having to socially transition and come out

2875
02:57:50,280 --> 02:57:52,720
Speaker 1: and do all of this under the care of a

2876
02:57:52,720 --> 02:57:56,120
Speaker 1: therapist and a physician for between six months and a

2877
02:57:56,120 --> 02:58:00,160
Speaker 1: couple of years before they'll allow you to access hormones. Um.

2878
02:58:01,400 --> 02:58:05,840
Speaker 1: And uh. That was kind of like the stepping stone

2879
02:58:05,920 --> 02:58:09,840
Speaker 1: between the previous experiments where it was just like d

2880
02:58:09,959 --> 02:58:14,640
Speaker 1: I Y or nothing um what it was or impossible gatekeeping,

2881
02:58:14,760 --> 02:58:17,760
Speaker 1: and then now where there's like more informed concent model

2882
02:58:17,800 --> 02:58:20,640
Speaker 1: which is what I which is what I do now yeah, yeah, um,

2883
02:58:21,360 --> 02:58:24,680
Speaker 1: and a lot of these laws are just kind of

2884
02:58:25,560 --> 02:58:30,520
Speaker 1: reiterating that weight that comes from a really like flawed place,

2885
02:58:30,720 --> 02:58:34,280
Speaker 1: like that weight didn't in any way benefit anyone. Is

2886
02:58:34,320 --> 02:58:37,400
Speaker 1: really it's just torturing people and trying to kind of like,

2887
02:58:38,160 --> 02:58:43,480
Speaker 1: um like beat the traine out of you. Uh, make

2888
02:58:43,520 --> 02:58:46,400
Speaker 1: you go to the mall presenting as a woman while

2889
02:58:46,400 --> 02:58:48,480
Speaker 1: you feel incredibly awkward and get yelled at by some

2890
02:58:48,560 --> 02:58:52,800
Speaker 1: guy for like trying to buy shoes and he's like right, yeah,

2891
02:58:53,280 --> 02:58:55,680
Speaker 1: Like if if you're a nine year old who is

2892
02:58:55,800 --> 02:59:00,080
Speaker 1: experiencing precocious puberty, it is completely acceptable and no and

2893
02:59:00,200 --> 02:59:03,320
Speaker 1: is going to question whether or not um, you know,

2894
02:59:03,680 --> 02:59:08,320
Speaker 1: prescribing puberty blockers to just make make make like to

2895
02:59:08,440 --> 02:59:10,320
Speaker 1: make it so that you can experience puberty at it

2896
02:59:10,400 --> 02:59:16,800
Speaker 1: what feels like a more appropriate developmental age. Uh. Sis People, politicians,

2897
02:59:16,800 --> 02:59:19,440
Speaker 1: the right wing generally people agree that that is an

2898
02:59:19,440 --> 02:59:23,680
Speaker 1: acceptable practice. But to use that same practice in order

2899
02:59:23,720 --> 02:59:27,200
Speaker 1: to help a trans child not die, that is a

2900
02:59:27,240 --> 02:59:30,880
Speaker 1: sin against God and leading to the decline of Western civilization.

2901
02:59:31,560 --> 02:59:37,320
Speaker 1: We wish whatever whatever people are like, yeah, like trans

2902
02:59:37,360 --> 02:59:40,120
Speaker 1: people are are leading into this degeneracy that's going to

2903
02:59:40,200 --> 02:59:43,480
Speaker 1: bring down Western civilization. You're like, oh, wow, that's sure.

2904
02:59:43,480 --> 02:59:48,360
Speaker 1: It does sound cool For me, hormones worked so quickly,

2905
02:59:48,760 --> 02:59:51,720
Speaker 1: and I would having to live through like a year

2906
02:59:52,400 --> 02:59:56,120
Speaker 1: of trying to present in specific ways well not on

2907
02:59:56,160 --> 02:59:59,680
Speaker 1: hormones sounds like complete hell because it is. I was

2908
02:59:59,800 --> 03:00:03,879
Speaker 1: very surprise at how fast even like mindset things changed. Um,

2909
03:00:04,080 --> 03:00:06,640
Speaker 1: how it is like they're very like hormones are very

2910
03:00:06,680 --> 03:00:09,040
Speaker 1: useful and very interesting and how they and how they

2911
03:00:09,080 --> 03:00:12,760
Speaker 1: affect changes and being forced to I guess as the

2912
03:00:12,879 --> 03:00:15,800
Speaker 1: term now is like boy moting or girl moting, this

2913
03:00:15,920 --> 03:00:17,560
Speaker 1: is this is this is this is what the zoomer

2914
03:00:17,920 --> 03:00:20,320
Speaker 1: the Zoomer kids call whenever they have to like like

2915
03:00:20,800 --> 03:00:24,600
Speaker 1: almost like code switch gender. Um. Having having to like

2916
03:00:25,560 --> 03:00:28,080
Speaker 1: present in the way that you want to without these

2917
03:00:28,120 --> 03:00:30,440
Speaker 1: systems of hormones for a while. To even be allowed

2918
03:00:30,480 --> 03:00:33,440
Speaker 1: to have hormones as me a zoomer now sounds like

2919
03:00:33,520 --> 03:00:38,120
Speaker 1: horrible because it's literally dangerous, Like yeah, an incredibly dangerous

2920
03:00:38,160 --> 03:00:40,920
Speaker 1: thing to put people, like experience, to put people into.

2921
03:00:41,080 --> 03:00:45,000
Speaker 1: And I think that like that kind of gate keeping. Uh,

2922
03:00:45,360 --> 03:00:47,520
Speaker 1: you'll start looking at it through a more intersectional lens

2923
03:00:47,640 --> 03:00:49,800
Speaker 1: and like who is it hurting the most? It's hurting

2924
03:00:49,879 --> 03:00:51,920
Speaker 1: people who don't have a ship ton of money to

2925
03:00:52,320 --> 03:00:56,800
Speaker 1: like read get an entirely new wardrobe that people who, um,

2926
03:00:56,879 --> 03:00:58,600
Speaker 1: you know, people of color who are more likely to

2927
03:00:58,600 --> 03:01:01,840
Speaker 1: be targets of violence if they're more obviously visible and

2928
03:01:01,879 --> 03:01:06,800
Speaker 1: read as transp well, and it really artificially diminished the

2929
03:01:06,920 --> 03:01:11,520
Speaker 1: number of trans people and just gender variants in general. Um.

2930
03:01:11,680 --> 03:01:15,199
Speaker 1: Something that's been really interesting to watch us someone who

2931
03:01:15,280 --> 03:01:19,320
Speaker 1: kind of went into the pandemic as like a trans

2932
03:01:19,360 --> 03:01:22,800
Speaker 1: elder doing a lot of community work. Is the core

2933
03:01:22,920 --> 03:01:27,000
Speaker 1: in trans as a thing and how much we give

2934
03:01:27,040 --> 03:01:31,160
Speaker 1: everyone an opportunity to like explore themselves and be introspective

2935
03:01:31,200 --> 03:01:33,400
Speaker 1: for a year, and how many people are like, fuck,

2936
03:01:33,440 --> 03:01:37,160
Speaker 1: I'm a girl, um, or like I'm no gender, or

2937
03:01:37,200 --> 03:01:40,960
Speaker 1: I'm every gender and all of these incredibly beautiful forms

2938
03:01:40,959 --> 03:01:45,040
Speaker 1: of exploration that couldn't have happened if they had to

2939
03:01:45,080 --> 03:01:48,000
Speaker 1: go through that in like their normal source situations, if

2940
03:01:48,000 --> 03:01:51,119
Speaker 1: you just gave them an excuse to like do their

2941
03:01:51,120 --> 03:01:54,640
Speaker 1: own thing for six months. And um yeah, r l

2942
03:01:54,640 --> 03:01:57,200
Speaker 1: E was a good way to keep people from being

2943
03:01:57,240 --> 03:02:00,480
Speaker 1: able to explore. And it's just one way that trans

2944
03:02:00,560 --> 03:02:02,840
Speaker 1: people's bodily autonomy is attacked. And that's what a lot

2945
03:02:02,879 --> 03:02:05,320
Speaker 1: of these bills come down to as well. Is it's

2946
03:02:05,320 --> 03:02:08,680
Speaker 1: the same thing as like anti abortion or anti birth

2947
03:02:08,680 --> 03:02:12,279
Speaker 1: control staff. It's all just about reducing people's bodily autonomy.

2948
03:02:12,320 --> 03:02:14,240
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, because like if I had to quote

2949
03:02:14,280 --> 03:02:16,280
Speaker 1: unquote live as a girl for a year, I would

2950
03:02:16,280 --> 03:02:18,480
Speaker 1: have just never gotten hormones because I don't want to

2951
03:02:18,560 --> 03:02:20,560
Speaker 1: live as a girl. Like that's not that's not what

2952
03:02:20,680 --> 03:02:23,080
Speaker 1: that's not what I want to even do. And yeah,

2953
03:02:23,240 --> 03:02:26,000
Speaker 1: having having all of that gate keeping, which is part

2954
03:02:26,080 --> 03:02:27,400
Speaker 1: part of part of part of what they're trying to do,

2955
03:02:27,440 --> 03:02:29,560
Speaker 1: because I mean as much as as much as they

2956
03:02:29,600 --> 03:02:33,320
Speaker 1: hate people who like are you know, are find more

2957
03:02:33,360 --> 03:02:37,199
Speaker 1: comfort inside the inside the more like typical gender rules,

2958
03:02:37,400 --> 03:02:40,440
Speaker 1: they also really don't like the people who enjoy being

2959
03:02:40,440 --> 03:02:44,359
Speaker 1: more like over gender freaks, um and like like outside

2960
03:02:44,360 --> 03:02:45,600
Speaker 1: of that, it's like so of course they're going to

2961
03:02:45,640 --> 03:02:48,320
Speaker 1: try to climp down on any anything it's worth noting

2962
03:02:48,360 --> 03:02:50,880
Speaker 1: to just the like, there's there are a few different

2963
03:02:50,959 --> 03:02:53,960
Speaker 1: camps um in in in the sort of right wing

2964
03:02:54,040 --> 03:02:57,720
Speaker 1: response to trans people. Um. One of the things that

2965
03:02:57,760 --> 03:03:00,920
Speaker 1: I've learned over the years kind of looking at looking

2966
03:03:00,920 --> 03:03:03,480
Speaker 1: at what the alt right is up to. Um, uh,

2967
03:03:03,680 --> 03:03:06,560
Speaker 1: you know what. Originally I really like thought of the

2968
03:03:06,600 --> 03:03:08,680
Speaker 1: whole Republican Party, the whole right wing is like a

2969
03:03:08,720 --> 03:03:12,680
Speaker 1: single cohesive ideological unit. It seemed like they were disabled

2970
03:03:12,680 --> 03:03:14,440
Speaker 1: to get everyone on the same page and then go

2971
03:03:14,520 --> 03:03:17,520
Speaker 1: at something. And if you look closely, you realize actually

2972
03:03:17,560 --> 03:03:20,520
Speaker 1: it's this huge, ever evolving coalition of people who mostly

2973
03:03:20,520 --> 03:03:23,240
Speaker 1: hate each other and if you're if you're clever, you

2974
03:03:23,280 --> 03:03:28,160
Speaker 1: can break people off and disrupt things. Um, there's different

2975
03:03:28,160 --> 03:03:30,560
Speaker 1: there's different movements, different thoughts inside of the way that

2976
03:03:30,600 --> 03:03:32,760
Speaker 1: people are approaching this. And you have a lot of

2977
03:03:32,800 --> 03:03:36,080
Speaker 1: politicians who they probably never met a trans person, They

2978
03:03:36,360 --> 03:03:39,480
Speaker 1: certainly probably don't have any gay friends. They're just some

2979
03:03:39,720 --> 03:03:44,400
Speaker 1: random suburbanite motherfucker's who know that sacrificing trans kids on

2980
03:03:44,440 --> 03:03:47,760
Speaker 1: the altar of political convenience will score them points with

2981
03:03:47,879 --> 03:03:53,320
Speaker 1: a radicalized base of bigots. Um, so those people are

2982
03:03:53,320 --> 03:03:56,920
Speaker 1: just cynically hurting trans people because it will score them

2983
03:03:56,959 --> 03:03:59,920
Speaker 1: some you know, pretend points that will lead to real

2984
03:04:00,000 --> 03:04:03,720
Speaker 1: structural power. But there is also the evangelical community, and

2985
03:04:03,720 --> 03:04:07,400
Speaker 1: a huge amount of the the deepest and scariest fervor

2986
03:04:07,440 --> 03:04:11,160
Speaker 1: against trans people comes out of the evangelical community. I

2987
03:04:11,200 --> 03:04:16,039
Speaker 1: was raised vaguely evangelical and yeah, and like when I

2988
03:04:16,040 --> 03:04:18,320
Speaker 1: came out, I was definitely told I was going to hell.

2989
03:04:18,360 --> 03:04:20,400
Speaker 1: Like if you look at the you look at the

2990
03:04:20,560 --> 03:04:25,080
Speaker 1: where this a lot of the incredibly incredibly like eliminationist

2991
03:04:25,280 --> 03:04:27,960
Speaker 1: rhetoric is coming from. And that's coming from the evangelical

2992
03:04:27,959 --> 03:04:30,280
Speaker 1: community who are like, it's not just that I think

2993
03:04:30,320 --> 03:04:33,920
Speaker 1: that from a policy perspective, this is like we need

2994
03:04:33,959 --> 03:04:36,879
Speaker 1: to like retool how we're doing trans healthcare something, because

2995
03:04:36,879 --> 03:04:39,200
Speaker 1: if people wanted to have conversations about how to make

2996
03:04:39,840 --> 03:04:43,360
Speaker 1: the best possible systems, like we want to have that conversation,

2997
03:04:43,480 --> 03:04:46,959
Speaker 1: we can we can agree to, we can disagree about policy.

2998
03:04:47,000 --> 03:04:50,320
Speaker 1: But their policy is literally trans people are an army

2999
03:04:50,360 --> 03:04:53,680
Speaker 1: of demons who have come to win souls for Satan,

3000
03:04:53,840 --> 03:04:57,120
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I'm just trying to refill my prescription

3001
03:04:57,640 --> 03:05:00,520
Speaker 1: and like we need the funk alone. And it also

3002
03:05:00,560 --> 03:05:05,240
Speaker 1: creates this really interesting looping effect of of politicians who

3003
03:05:05,280 --> 03:05:07,600
Speaker 1: get into anti trans and like like all of this

3004
03:05:07,680 --> 03:05:10,600
Speaker 1: kind of like anti gay stuff to specifically win elections. Right.

3005
03:05:10,600 --> 03:05:13,680
Speaker 1: We even saw this like Greg Abbett doing his um

3006
03:05:13,720 --> 03:05:17,960
Speaker 1: like letters about about investigating parents of trans kids specifically

3007
03:05:18,000 --> 03:05:21,920
Speaker 1: around his primary election like, so people definitely do are

3008
03:05:21,959 --> 03:05:25,359
Speaker 1: still very much getting into this specifically to win elections

3009
03:05:25,400 --> 03:05:27,280
Speaker 1: because they know it's a point that riles up the base.

3010
03:05:27,560 --> 03:05:29,760
Speaker 1: But then you also have people, because that's been going

3011
03:05:29,800 --> 03:05:32,800
Speaker 1: on for so long, you have people who are maybe

3012
03:05:32,840 --> 03:05:37,040
Speaker 1: not necessarily super evangelical, um, but who grew up around

3013
03:05:37,120 --> 03:05:39,400
Speaker 1: this kind of culture of politicians need to say these things,

3014
03:05:39,600 --> 03:05:42,320
Speaker 1: who are now getting again even if paulicians didn't really

3015
03:05:42,320 --> 03:05:44,400
Speaker 1: fully agree with it, they they needed to do it

3016
03:05:44,440 --> 03:05:46,320
Speaker 1: to get support. But you have people who grew up

3017
03:05:46,320 --> 03:05:49,640
Speaker 1: around that and went into politics around that who are

3018
03:05:49,640 --> 03:05:52,360
Speaker 1: now just do that sincerely because because it was what

3019
03:05:52,400 --> 03:05:55,400
Speaker 1: they were exposed to previously. Now we have people like

3020
03:05:55,440 --> 03:05:56,959
Speaker 1: that who are trying to run for office with the

3021
03:05:56,959 --> 03:05:59,720
Speaker 1: first time who are just that extreme. Um. I think

3022
03:05:59,720 --> 03:06:01,640
Speaker 1: that's even a bit of what the Marjorie Taylor Green

3023
03:06:01,720 --> 03:06:05,800
Speaker 1: thing is is, like someone who was exposed to extremist

3024
03:06:05,800 --> 03:06:09,160
Speaker 1: stuff online who is now running for office herself and

3025
03:06:09,320 --> 03:06:11,920
Speaker 1: is completely sincere about all the stuff she's doing, Like

3026
03:06:11,959 --> 03:06:13,680
Speaker 1: she she is a true believer in the way that

3027
03:06:13,760 --> 03:06:16,240
Speaker 1: some other people like Matt Gates may not even be

3028
03:06:16,280 --> 03:06:18,080
Speaker 1: a true believer. He might just be doing it because

3029
03:06:18,080 --> 03:06:20,080
Speaker 1: it's popular. But you also have the people who are

3030
03:06:20,120 --> 03:06:22,600
Speaker 1: just like fully fully believe it because it's it's it's

3031
03:06:22,640 --> 03:06:26,080
Speaker 1: influenced culture long enough that it's now a full loop

3032
03:06:26,120 --> 03:06:31,320
Speaker 1: of sincerity. Well, and then specifically, the perception of trans

3033
03:06:31,400 --> 03:06:35,880
Speaker 1: people within the religious rights specifically is actually shifted so

3034
03:06:35,959 --> 03:06:39,360
Speaker 1: much and last decade. I guess now I'm trying to

3035
03:06:39,400 --> 03:06:43,560
Speaker 1: think how old I am, Um, because I was a

3036
03:06:43,600 --> 03:06:49,200
Speaker 1: student at Baylor University. Oh okay, yeah, okay, cool, cool, Yeah,

3037
03:06:49,240 --> 03:06:51,640
Speaker 1: I have I have I have some family who used

3038
03:06:51,640 --> 03:06:54,360
Speaker 1: to work at Baylor. Oh. I have spent a lot

3039
03:06:54,360 --> 03:06:57,480
Speaker 1: of time in and around there, the top part of

3040
03:06:57,480 --> 03:07:02,240
Speaker 1: the world. Um uh yeah, sick um for all of

3041
03:07:02,280 --> 03:07:06,360
Speaker 1: the queer asked Baylor bears out there. But I became

3042
03:07:06,400 --> 03:07:11,440
Speaker 1: a student and I graduated, and being queer was against

3043
03:07:11,440 --> 03:07:14,680
Speaker 1: the rules the whole time I was there. Despite me,

3044
03:07:15,240 --> 03:07:19,599
Speaker 1: we came out and started a student group my freshman year. Um.

3045
03:07:19,760 --> 03:07:22,959
Speaker 1: But I had to face this really weird decision because

3046
03:07:22,959 --> 03:07:24,520
Speaker 1: in high school I had a lot of gender stuff

3047
03:07:24,560 --> 03:07:27,200
Speaker 1: going on, a lot of sexuality stuff going on, and

3048
03:07:27,240 --> 03:07:29,480
Speaker 1: I described myself as like a queer sexual because I'm like,

3049
03:07:29,480 --> 03:07:32,520
Speaker 1: I'm still figuring it out. Sometimes I'm a girl. Sometimes

3050
03:07:32,560 --> 03:07:35,039
Speaker 1: I'm a boy. I don't know. I'll sort this out

3051
03:07:35,080 --> 03:07:37,200
Speaker 1: in my twenties. And then I go to college where

3052
03:07:37,200 --> 03:07:39,240
Speaker 1: I thought I'd sorted out, and I was faced with

3053
03:07:39,320 --> 03:07:41,160
Speaker 1: this thing like you can either be out as queer

3054
03:07:41,720 --> 03:07:43,400
Speaker 1: and but you have to like present as like as

3055
03:07:43,480 --> 03:07:47,920
Speaker 1: sis gay man. Or you can transition, which will be

3056
03:07:47,959 --> 03:07:50,879
Speaker 1: totally acceptable within this culture, but you have to go

3057
03:07:51,000 --> 03:07:53,640
Speaker 1: deep stealth and um, you'll just show up next year

3058
03:07:53,640 --> 03:07:55,400
Speaker 1: as a girl and everyone will be fine with that

3059
03:07:55,480 --> 03:07:57,400
Speaker 1: and we'll all pretend it didn't happen and that you've

3060
03:07:57,400 --> 03:08:00,720
Speaker 1: always been a girl. Um. I and that was like

3061
03:08:01,240 --> 03:08:06,520
Speaker 1: the standard and a lot of the Baylor's very upper

3062
03:08:06,640 --> 03:08:11,200
Speaker 1: Crest religious right, like very privileged group of people. But

3063
03:08:11,440 --> 03:08:13,560
Speaker 1: was you just kind of go away and we can

3064
03:08:13,600 --> 03:08:16,040
Speaker 1: just for a few months and we just pretend this

3065
03:08:16,080 --> 03:08:20,400
Speaker 1: is how it always was. And now it's much more

3066
03:08:23,240 --> 03:08:26,959
Speaker 1: um inquisitional is the wrong word. But they it's like

3067
03:08:27,040 --> 03:08:31,600
Speaker 1: hunting trans people down, uh, in a much more aggressive

3068
03:08:31,600 --> 03:08:34,000
Speaker 1: way where they can't just kind of be like, well,

3069
03:08:34,400 --> 03:08:38,000
Speaker 1: God doesn't make trash, and instead they're like, oh, God

3070
03:08:38,040 --> 03:08:43,000
Speaker 1: connects you to Hell, just very directly, and it's getting worse,

3071
03:08:43,280 --> 03:08:47,359
Speaker 1: and um, that's why tear it up. Is really important

3072
03:08:47,360 --> 03:08:51,320
Speaker 1: that we like start now instead of like next fall,

3073
03:08:52,760 --> 03:08:55,959
Speaker 1: because it's gonna be horrible next fall and the spring

3074
03:08:56,000 --> 03:09:00,560
Speaker 1: after that could be it's gonna be real grim. I

3075
03:09:00,680 --> 03:09:02,760
Speaker 1: love to talk more about like a tear it up

3076
03:09:02,760 --> 03:09:05,200
Speaker 1: and how you approach organizing UM and what you're kind

3077
03:09:05,240 --> 03:09:08,680
Speaker 1: of hoping to both expand into and the various actions

3078
03:09:08,720 --> 03:09:11,560
Speaker 1: that you have done in the past few weeks. So

3079
03:09:11,920 --> 03:09:17,119
Speaker 1: the first tear it up action officially was the three

3080
03:09:17,160 --> 03:09:20,840
Speaker 1: thirteen rally in Austin, Texas. That was the Transcrids Cry

3081
03:09:20,879 --> 03:09:23,680
Speaker 1: for Help rally UM, where we had a bunch of

3082
03:09:23,680 --> 03:09:27,920
Speaker 1: people and the steps of the Governor's mansion, UM speaking

3083
03:09:28,080 --> 03:09:31,879
Speaker 1: and getting loud and UM. We had a few hundred

3084
03:09:31,879 --> 03:09:35,360
Speaker 1: people show up and not really mobilized. A lot of

3085
03:09:35,360 --> 03:09:39,120
Speaker 1: folks in Texas that I know got activated from that

3086
03:09:39,200 --> 03:09:43,000
Speaker 1: and are still going. But while I was running and

3087
03:09:43,120 --> 03:09:45,720
Speaker 1: organizing that with trot Um and actually flew down to

3088
03:09:45,800 --> 03:09:51,160
Speaker 1: Texas from Nebraska to do that, UM, the various humans

3089
03:09:51,160 --> 03:09:52,600
Speaker 1: I'd reached out to and I was just like, I

3090
03:09:52,680 --> 03:09:55,400
Speaker 1: don't have time to explain directions right now. We need

3091
03:09:55,440 --> 03:09:57,400
Speaker 1: to organize the Diane by the end of the month.

3092
03:09:58,440 --> 03:10:00,280
Speaker 1: Here's here's what I have. I just kind of through

3093
03:10:00,280 --> 03:10:04,280
Speaker 1: it at them, and um, they all ran with it.

3094
03:10:05,000 --> 03:10:10,080
Speaker 1: And I think that's, um the way that we need

3095
03:10:10,120 --> 03:10:12,800
Speaker 1: to approach this right now, because we need to build

3096
03:10:12,840 --> 03:10:15,760
Speaker 1: this big machine, because they've been building the machine against

3097
03:10:15,840 --> 03:10:20,000
Speaker 1: us for years, UM, and to build a machine that

3098
03:10:20,040 --> 03:10:21,640
Speaker 1: can rival that, we kind of need to be much

3099
03:10:21,640 --> 03:10:25,040
Speaker 1: more decentralized and much more agile about how we grow

3100
03:10:25,240 --> 03:10:28,120
Speaker 1: and how we do these actions. Um. Cat, you are

3101
03:10:28,160 --> 03:10:30,000
Speaker 1: one of the first humans I reached out to and

3102
03:10:30,040 --> 03:10:31,760
Speaker 1: I was like, yes, I would like to make a

3103
03:10:31,800 --> 03:10:38,360
Speaker 1: big trouble. What was that like from your side of things? Yeah,

3104
03:10:38,480 --> 03:10:41,040
Speaker 1: So I keep thinking about this from the perspective of

3105
03:10:41,120 --> 03:10:44,199
Speaker 1: kind of my own political motivation. So I've done various

3106
03:10:44,280 --> 03:10:48,600
Speaker 1: kinds of like lefty whatever organizing for for most of

3107
03:10:48,600 --> 03:10:52,320
Speaker 1: my adult life. And um, in the last like last

3108
03:10:52,520 --> 03:10:55,960
Speaker 1: I guess February and February or whatever. UM, I think,

3109
03:10:56,000 --> 03:10:58,000
Speaker 1: like probably a lot of people, especially a lot of

3110
03:10:58,040 --> 03:11:00,600
Speaker 1: trance people, I had like a couple of weak period

3111
03:11:00,640 --> 03:11:04,480
Speaker 1: of just like totally depressed, doom scrolling, and then the

3112
03:11:04,520 --> 03:11:07,600
Speaker 1: invastion of Ukraine was happening, and it's just like everything

3113
03:11:07,680 --> 03:11:10,240
Speaker 1: was bad all the time. Um, it's still feel still

3114
03:11:10,240 --> 03:11:12,760
Speaker 1: feels like everything is bad all the time. But um,

3115
03:11:12,800 --> 03:11:15,400
Speaker 1: I have stuff to do thanks to uh it a

3116
03:11:15,440 --> 03:11:18,879
Speaker 1: roads that were here. UM. So what it I so like?

3117
03:11:18,920 --> 03:11:22,000
Speaker 1: I said, I grew up. Um, I was a child

3118
03:11:22,000 --> 03:11:23,960
Speaker 1: of the nineties. I grew up in a world that

3119
03:11:24,000 --> 03:11:26,480
Speaker 1: I knew was utterly hostile to my existence. I knew

3120
03:11:26,480 --> 03:11:29,600
Speaker 1: that trans people were like that to be trans was

3121
03:11:29,640 --> 03:11:32,320
Speaker 1: something deeply shameful and a secret that I either needed

3122
03:11:32,360 --> 03:11:34,640
Speaker 1: to die with or that if I came out it

3123
03:11:34,680 --> 03:11:37,600
Speaker 1: would like ruin my life of all of my family.

3124
03:11:38,440 --> 03:11:41,920
Speaker 1: UM until I eventually, you know, I managed to not

3125
03:11:42,000 --> 03:11:44,959
Speaker 1: die all the way until eighteen came out, and then

3126
03:11:45,120 --> 03:11:47,920
Speaker 1: I found a bunch of incredible queer people, and uh

3127
03:11:48,120 --> 03:11:52,520
Speaker 1: have it's been alive since then. But I I was

3128
03:11:52,560 --> 03:11:55,480
Speaker 1: shaped by that experience, by the experience of meaning to

3129
03:11:55,520 --> 03:11:58,800
Speaker 1: survive knowing that I had this secret all, you know,

3130
03:11:58,800 --> 03:12:01,640
Speaker 1: I knew when I knew in kindergart, I like just

3131
03:12:01,640 --> 03:12:05,160
Speaker 1: just new with total certainty. And I also knew that

3132
03:12:05,200 --> 03:12:08,160
Speaker 1: it was evil and bad and that I should be ashamed. Um.

3133
03:12:08,240 --> 03:12:12,080
Speaker 1: And there is a whole couple there's like generation there's

3134
03:12:12,080 --> 03:12:14,040
Speaker 1: like a whole generation of kids right now growing up,

3135
03:12:14,080 --> 03:12:17,480
Speaker 1: who have you know, come out who have been born

3136
03:12:17,600 --> 03:12:27,240
Speaker 1: since two thousand fourteen and come out as tiny, right,

3137
03:12:27,280 --> 03:12:29,000
Speaker 1: so there's like a whole and then never mind like

3138
03:12:29,040 --> 03:12:30,680
Speaker 1: kids who weren't born before that, but who are in

3139
03:12:30,760 --> 03:12:33,640
Speaker 1: high school now who are coming out and like they

3140
03:12:33,680 --> 03:12:36,840
Speaker 1: have existed in a world where pop culture and the

3141
03:12:36,920 --> 03:12:41,560
Speaker 1: sort of mass culture more generally speaking, has like there

3142
03:12:41,560 --> 03:12:44,480
Speaker 1: are trans people on TV and they're not just serial

3143
03:12:44,560 --> 03:12:48,120
Speaker 1: killers or the murder victims in an SPU story. There's

3144
03:12:48,200 --> 03:12:52,160
Speaker 1: legitimate representation, there is, you know, you have like the

3145
03:12:52,520 --> 03:12:55,360
Speaker 1: you have people in national government and in state government

3146
03:12:55,440 --> 03:13:01,040
Speaker 1: explicitly defending trans people like they they have in enculturated

3147
03:13:01,160 --> 03:13:04,600
Speaker 1: to this idea that they have some semblance of rights

3148
03:13:04,600 --> 03:13:07,959
Speaker 1: and that civilization, that the civilization they live in doesn't

3149
03:13:07,959 --> 03:13:11,119
Speaker 1: want to smite them out of existence. Um, and those

3150
03:13:11,240 --> 03:13:16,000
Speaker 1: kids are watching this conversation shift and I don't know

3151
03:13:16,040 --> 03:13:19,440
Speaker 1: what that's like, but I can tell you that I've

3152
03:13:19,520 --> 03:13:22,199
Speaker 1: been motivated by anger to do a lot of things.

3153
03:13:22,440 --> 03:13:24,879
Speaker 1: And um, I don't know that I've ever been quite

3154
03:13:24,879 --> 03:13:27,080
Speaker 1: as furious in my life as I have been the

3155
03:13:27,160 --> 03:13:29,880
Speaker 1: last the last couple of months, and so being drawn

3156
03:13:30,040 --> 03:13:33,800
Speaker 1: towards tear it up to me, is this opportunity to like,

3157
03:13:34,720 --> 03:13:38,039
Speaker 1: you know, uh, I I love the Trevor Project. I'm

3158
03:13:38,040 --> 03:13:39,680
Speaker 1: really glad that they exist. I'm really glad that they

3159
03:13:39,680 --> 03:13:42,240
Speaker 1: do the work that they do. You know, like that

3160
03:13:42,320 --> 03:13:45,800
Speaker 1: there's all these different organs who are putting out positive messaging,

3161
03:13:45,800 --> 03:13:48,000
Speaker 1: but it's all pretty milk toast. You know, it's like

3162
03:13:48,040 --> 03:13:51,400
Speaker 1: trans people are cool. Maybe we should maybe we should

3163
03:13:51,400 --> 03:13:53,960
Speaker 1: give all we should give all the tender cursive baseball bat.

3164
03:13:54,040 --> 03:13:58,800
Speaker 1: Maybe that would be a more useful for Like, they're

3165
03:13:58,840 --> 03:14:02,360
Speaker 1: fucking trying to kill you, thirteen year old. They are

3166
03:14:02,400 --> 03:14:05,959
Speaker 1: coming for you. This world is unsafe, and I need

3167
03:14:06,000 --> 03:14:08,320
Speaker 1: you to know that you have somewhere to run to,

3168
03:14:08,840 --> 03:14:11,720
Speaker 1: that there are adults in the world who will keep

3169
03:14:11,760 --> 03:14:14,840
Speaker 1: you safe, who will show up for you, who are

3170
03:14:14,879 --> 03:14:16,920
Speaker 1: going to go and raise a bunch of hell, make

3171
03:14:16,959 --> 03:14:20,560
Speaker 1: a bunch of noise, do a graffiti, put up some posters,

3172
03:14:20,959 --> 03:14:23,280
Speaker 1: go and you know, get ourselves in trouble on the

3173
03:14:23,320 --> 03:14:26,320
Speaker 1: steps of the capitals all across the country, so that

3174
03:14:26,360 --> 03:14:28,360
Speaker 1: those kids in high school right now who are feeling

3175
03:14:28,400 --> 03:14:32,520
Speaker 1: like the entire fucking universe is dissolving around them into

3176
03:14:32,520 --> 03:14:36,199
Speaker 1: a bottomless sea of fear and hatred, but like, there's

3177
03:14:36,200 --> 03:14:38,480
Speaker 1: other people out there. If you're in Idaho, if you're

3178
03:14:38,520 --> 03:14:40,880
Speaker 1: if you were a kid who's growing up in northern Idaho, like,

3179
03:14:41,040 --> 03:14:44,000
Speaker 1: there's other people out there. You just have to get free.

3180
03:14:44,720 --> 03:14:48,920
Speaker 1: And we're specifically so our first actions we specifically target

3181
03:14:48,959 --> 03:14:53,119
Speaker 1: at these states that tend to be ignored by um

3182
03:14:53,240 --> 03:14:55,880
Speaker 1: so like the mainstream liberal media. I'm trying to say

3183
03:14:55,879 --> 03:14:59,920
Speaker 1: that without sounding like a whack of doodle, but we're

3184
03:15:00,040 --> 03:15:04,440
Speaker 1: fully past that foot great cool, I have feel like

3185
03:15:04,520 --> 03:15:07,840
Speaker 1: a profit. Storial re opened this show with a joke

3186
03:15:07,920 --> 03:15:15,480
Speaker 1: about that's true. We're fine that happened. I don't know, yeah,

3187
03:15:15,840 --> 03:15:18,680
Speaker 1: um but yeah, like the mainstream liberal media doesn't give

3188
03:15:18,680 --> 03:15:22,600
Speaker 1: a funk about Iowa or Idaho. And frankly, I've since

3189
03:15:22,640 --> 03:15:24,360
Speaker 1: I've lived all over the country and been involved in

3190
03:15:24,520 --> 03:15:27,800
Speaker 1: queer activism for like over a decade. I have friends

3191
03:15:27,840 --> 03:15:32,240
Speaker 1: all over and a lot of the um more higher

3192
03:15:32,320 --> 03:15:35,280
Speaker 1: up folks and established organs on the coasts and in

3193
03:15:35,360 --> 03:15:39,600
Speaker 1: big cities look at what happens in like Iowa and Idaho,

3194
03:15:39,640 --> 03:15:41,960
Speaker 1: in Texas and Florida, and they're like, oh no, this

3195
03:15:42,040 --> 03:15:44,440
Speaker 1: is a sign of what's to come, and not this

3196
03:15:44,480 --> 03:15:47,120
Speaker 1: affects a quarter of the country. It's already happening. Yeah,

3197
03:15:47,160 --> 03:15:50,400
Speaker 1: it's happens. Yeah it's not it could happen here, It's

3198
03:15:50,440 --> 03:15:55,440
Speaker 1: happened already. And fight for these kids desperately because their

3199
03:15:55,480 --> 03:15:57,680
Speaker 1: lives are at risk in so many ways right now.

3200
03:15:57,720 --> 03:16:01,400
Speaker 1: They're legally imperiled. The things that we're giving them hope

3201
03:16:01,440 --> 03:16:04,400
Speaker 1: for life are being taken away. And a lot of

3202
03:16:04,440 --> 03:16:08,200
Speaker 1: these laws most affect the kids that have support of families,

3203
03:16:08,959 --> 03:16:10,600
Speaker 1: But we need a fight for the kids that don't

3204
03:16:10,680 --> 03:16:13,280
Speaker 1: do and make sure that they know that, like we

3205
03:16:13,400 --> 03:16:15,720
Speaker 1: see you in Iowa, and we're gonna go do something

3206
03:16:15,760 --> 03:16:18,800
Speaker 1: melodramatic and cover ourselves in fake blood and lay on

3207
03:16:18,840 --> 03:16:22,160
Speaker 1: the steps of the capital in the in the state

3208
03:16:22,280 --> 03:16:24,920
Speaker 1: that you live in so you can see that, like

3209
03:16:25,120 --> 03:16:30,760
Speaker 1: your feelings are being externalized, and hopefully that'll move you

3210
03:16:30,800 --> 03:16:34,080
Speaker 1: to knowing that like other people are going through this too,

3211
03:16:34,320 --> 03:16:37,720
Speaker 1: and hopefully other people will see what's happening and it

3212
03:16:37,760 --> 03:16:41,359
Speaker 1: will move them to action to protect those kids. Um.

3213
03:16:41,440 --> 03:16:43,520
Speaker 1: And it'll give you a space to start building community

3214
03:16:43,560 --> 03:16:46,320
Speaker 1: and building connections for other transpeople and other people in

3215
03:16:46,360 --> 03:16:49,879
Speaker 1: the area who want to help keep you alive exactly. UM.

3216
03:16:49,920 --> 03:16:53,320
Speaker 1: And that's really the next step and tear it up

3217
03:16:53,440 --> 03:16:55,760
Speaker 1: is this next month, I want to have us focus

3218
03:16:55,800 --> 03:16:58,880
Speaker 1: a bit more on a little community building and community events,

3219
03:16:58,920 --> 03:17:01,240
Speaker 1: which has always been a big are My strategy with

3220
03:17:01,879 --> 03:17:05,160
Speaker 1: previous organizing as big lab protests followed by a pizza

3221
03:17:05,160 --> 03:17:08,920
Speaker 1: party UM or we did a great technic in Austin

3222
03:17:08,959 --> 03:17:11,920
Speaker 1: after the legislative sessions last year where we had a

3223
03:17:11,920 --> 03:17:13,440
Speaker 1: bunch of people show up and made a lot of

3224
03:17:13,480 --> 03:17:16,520
Speaker 1: good connections. UM We had a lot of the little

3225
03:17:16,520 --> 03:17:20,680
Speaker 1: trans kidos there and some photos that were taken there

3226
03:17:20,680 --> 03:17:23,800
Speaker 1: were then used as like the headline, like the the

3227
03:17:23,840 --> 03:17:26,360
Speaker 1: cover photos for like all these articles about the kids

3228
03:17:26,400 --> 03:17:30,760
Speaker 1: being attacked. Yeah. Yeah, I think that the we we

3229
03:17:30,879 --> 03:17:34,000
Speaker 1: pulled off our sort of first coordinated national set of actions,

3230
03:17:34,160 --> 03:17:37,720
Speaker 1: that the model that we're that we're looking at is

3231
03:17:37,760 --> 03:17:40,560
Speaker 1: groups like act up, so more of a sort of

3232
03:17:40,600 --> 03:17:45,640
Speaker 1: decentralized national network of UM folks who are all working

3233
03:17:45,680 --> 03:17:49,199
Speaker 1: together to be sort of power amplifiers to like share resources,

3234
03:17:49,400 --> 03:17:53,080
Speaker 1: share share tools, make sure that you know everyone has

3235
03:17:53,120 --> 03:17:55,400
Speaker 1: what they need and has backup in case anything gets

3236
03:17:55,440 --> 03:17:57,800
Speaker 1: out of hand wherever they're whatever states they're in, whatever

3237
03:17:57,840 --> 03:18:01,600
Speaker 1: city they're in. UM and that coalition building or like

3238
03:18:01,640 --> 03:18:04,359
Speaker 1: the community building part is such a such an incredibly

3239
03:18:04,400 --> 03:18:07,760
Speaker 1: important factor. Like I so I was coordinating, I was

3240
03:18:07,800 --> 03:18:11,160
Speaker 1: working on the event to have happened in Boise And

3241
03:18:11,720 --> 03:18:13,520
Speaker 1: you know, one of the major things that I that

3242
03:18:13,600 --> 03:18:16,880
Speaker 1: I ran into reaching out to all these different organizations

3243
03:18:16,959 --> 03:18:19,879
Speaker 1: is like, I mean, they've been at war for a

3244
03:18:19,920 --> 03:18:23,760
Speaker 1: long time and they have like there are literally militia

3245
03:18:23,840 --> 03:18:28,759
Speaker 1: groups hunting anyone who shows up at a BLM rally

3246
03:18:28,800 --> 03:18:32,720
Speaker 1: in Boise. Um. When I talked to, you know, some

3247
03:18:32,760 --> 03:18:37,000
Speaker 1: of the like executive directors of like LGBTQ oriented nonprofits

3248
03:18:37,080 --> 03:18:40,080
Speaker 1: in Boise, they were like, Hey, I'm really it's really

3249
03:18:40,080 --> 03:18:43,040
Speaker 1: cool that you're doing this, but I we cannot send

3250
03:18:43,160 --> 03:18:46,600
Speaker 1: our kids. Were like, we can't participate in this because

3251
03:18:46,600 --> 03:18:48,320
Speaker 1: we don't know you and we don't know what's going

3252
03:18:48,360 --> 03:18:51,280
Speaker 1: to happen. And this is like this you need to

3253
03:18:51,320 --> 03:18:55,160
Speaker 1: understand that this scene is like not safe. Totally fair. Yeah,

3254
03:18:55,200 --> 03:18:56,879
Speaker 1: so totally fair, and so like, I think a big

3255
03:18:56,920 --> 03:19:00,760
Speaker 1: part of this next step is deepening those connections, you know,

3256
03:19:00,800 --> 03:19:04,720
Speaker 1: showing people that like, we will show up, we are accountable,

3257
03:19:05,080 --> 03:19:09,240
Speaker 1: we are looking to be partners for long term action,

3258
03:19:09,400 --> 03:19:14,200
Speaker 1: for long term struggle. And one of the things that

3259
03:19:14,360 --> 03:19:16,840
Speaker 1: is really cool about Tear it Up that I didn't

3260
03:19:16,879 --> 03:19:20,879
Speaker 1: expect because I am old, so my networking has always

3261
03:19:20,879 --> 03:19:25,200
Speaker 1: been phone trees, UM and literally just like calling people

3262
03:19:25,200 --> 03:19:28,360
Speaker 1: out and being like you call these three people UM

3263
03:19:28,480 --> 03:19:32,920
Speaker 1: and getting people out for actions, uh, for tear it Up.

3264
03:19:33,000 --> 03:19:36,800
Speaker 1: We have these amazing humans at building like online communities

3265
03:19:36,840 --> 03:19:40,840
Speaker 1: on Discord, which makes me feel simultaneously like years old

3266
03:19:40,879 --> 03:19:43,160
Speaker 1: and also like the kids. They're all right, they know

3267
03:19:43,320 --> 03:19:48,039
Speaker 1: that how to do the trouble UM. And we're trying

3268
03:19:48,080 --> 03:19:52,119
Speaker 1: to not just build do this traditional coalition building that

3269
03:19:52,160 --> 03:19:55,360
Speaker 1: I've been doing for a long time and making all

3270
03:19:55,400 --> 03:19:57,960
Speaker 1: these connections, but trying to build not just like a

3271
03:19:58,000 --> 03:20:01,160
Speaker 1: physical community, but an online community to stitch these physical

3272
03:20:01,160 --> 03:20:05,360
Speaker 1: communities together because if you're in like middle of nowhere, Texas,

3273
03:20:05,959 --> 03:20:08,120
Speaker 1: you can see what's happening in Austin, but you can't

3274
03:20:08,120 --> 03:20:11,400
Speaker 1: always like physically make it there. So it's good to

3275
03:20:11,440 --> 03:20:14,360
Speaker 1: know that, like, these are my humans and they're fighting

3276
03:20:14,400 --> 03:20:16,320
Speaker 1: for me, and I can be in the loop and

3277
03:20:16,360 --> 03:20:22,000
Speaker 1: get involved UM. And our long term strategy with that

3278
03:20:22,120 --> 03:20:25,560
Speaker 1: is to connect people like UM the Trevor Project. I

3279
03:20:25,640 --> 03:20:28,000
Speaker 1: love a lot of the humans they're actually and like

3280
03:20:28,040 --> 03:20:31,879
Speaker 1: trans Lifeline in these groups because they UM and all

3281
03:20:31,920 --> 03:20:34,720
Speaker 1: these other like national groups that raise a lot of money,

3282
03:20:34,760 --> 03:20:36,520
Speaker 1: but they're actually not allowed to raise a lot of

3283
03:20:36,560 --> 03:20:39,280
Speaker 1: trouble because of like their tax status and all these things.

3284
03:20:39,360 --> 03:20:44,879
Speaker 1: Is like, uh, the HRC like can't do a trouble

3285
03:20:45,160 --> 03:20:47,400
Speaker 1: because it'll look bad for them, and they care about

3286
03:20:47,440 --> 03:20:50,320
Speaker 1: those sorts of things. But we can connect those people

3287
03:20:50,600 --> 03:20:55,320
Speaker 1: with these young activists that want to go stirrup ship

3288
03:20:55,600 --> 03:20:58,600
Speaker 1: and cause trouble and need to like let out that

3289
03:20:58,760 --> 03:21:03,320
Speaker 1: screaming um. And even if we can't defeat the laws

3290
03:21:03,400 --> 03:21:06,600
Speaker 1: in the moment, letting out that scream is a communal good.

3291
03:21:06,760 --> 03:21:10,560
Speaker 1: It lets people feel seen, and it lets people know

3292
03:21:11,040 --> 03:21:14,400
Speaker 1: I need help right now, And shouting and crying and

3293
03:21:15,400 --> 03:21:18,400
Speaker 1: a gnashing of teeth and rending of hair and clothes

3294
03:21:18,520 --> 03:21:22,520
Speaker 1: is objectively good. Actually, we need people to come together,

3295
03:21:22,520 --> 03:21:24,120
Speaker 1: and we need people to see our suffering, and we

3296
03:21:24,160 --> 03:21:26,520
Speaker 1: need people to be moved to loving each other and

3297
03:21:26,520 --> 03:21:30,480
Speaker 1: helping each other. And that's um how, that's how will survive.

3298
03:21:31,200 --> 03:21:34,120
Speaker 1: Right if we achieve nothing beyond Catharsis and we've achieved something.

3299
03:21:35,160 --> 03:21:38,000
Speaker 1: I loved your point about the online community component of things,

3300
03:21:38,000 --> 03:21:40,879
Speaker 1: because I feel like so much of trans focused online

3301
03:21:40,879 --> 03:21:45,040
Speaker 1: community is like, uh, you know, do I look okay

3302
03:21:45,080 --> 03:21:47,959
Speaker 1: in this outfit? Or like, hey, we're all fans of

3303
03:21:48,000 --> 03:21:53,320
Speaker 1: the same like the anime or right, like they're all

3304
03:21:53,320 --> 03:21:58,480
Speaker 1: they're the very specific kind of projects, and there there's

3305
03:21:58,520 --> 03:22:00,320
Speaker 1: not I don't feel like there's a lot of races

3306
03:22:00,360 --> 03:22:03,880
Speaker 1: that are like, hey, this is like the war room. Well,

3307
03:22:03,920 --> 03:22:06,080
Speaker 1: I mean not that we can't talk about bullshit, but

3308
03:22:06,120 --> 03:22:09,320
Speaker 1: like the entire focus of this space is to connect

3309
03:22:09,320 --> 03:22:12,400
Speaker 1: as many trans people as possible so we can amplify

3310
03:22:12,480 --> 03:22:16,440
Speaker 1: our power together. Um, and you know, begin to even

3311
03:22:16,480 --> 03:22:22,080
Speaker 1: remotely approximate the boogeyman that Marjorie Taylor Green imagines us

3312
03:22:22,120 --> 03:22:26,360
Speaker 1: to be. Right well, and we need to become like

3313
03:22:26,400 --> 03:22:30,240
Speaker 1: the trans and Sexual Menace, which is another protest group

3314
03:22:30,280 --> 03:22:32,760
Speaker 1: that I love from the nineties where they create this

3315
03:22:32,920 --> 03:22:35,600
Speaker 1: iconography around like oh, we are the trans sexual Menace

3316
03:22:35,640 --> 03:22:38,240
Speaker 1: and then it's a bunch of like very nice like

3317
03:22:38,240 --> 03:22:42,560
Speaker 1: like like very like normal looking folks. Yeah. But I

3318
03:22:42,600 --> 03:22:45,279
Speaker 1: think we need to reclaim that and taking in another direction,

3319
03:22:45,440 --> 03:22:50,120
Speaker 1: and we need to not be menacing in you know,

3320
03:22:50,320 --> 03:22:53,280
Speaker 1: like we need to be a good menace. We need

3321
03:22:53,320 --> 03:22:54,800
Speaker 1: to be a bit of an anti hero for the

3322
03:22:54,800 --> 03:22:58,000
Speaker 1: trans community, and we need to do fucking trouble and

3323
03:22:58,040 --> 03:23:02,160
Speaker 1: we need to cause problems for people. And frankly, I think, UM,

3324
03:23:02,200 --> 03:23:04,440
Speaker 1: too many politicians get to go to bed at night

3325
03:23:04,840 --> 03:23:08,039
Speaker 1: not listening to people call them motherfucker's on a megaphone,

3326
03:23:08,640 --> 03:23:10,879
Speaker 1: And too many people get to have a nice lunch

3327
03:23:11,360 --> 03:23:14,119
Speaker 1: at their favorite restaurant without that being disrupted and having

3328
03:23:14,879 --> 03:23:18,240
Speaker 1: things shouted at them. I think we need to become

3329
03:23:18,320 --> 03:23:20,480
Speaker 1: the menace that we need to be to survive in

3330
03:23:20,560 --> 03:23:27,520
Speaker 1: this moment. I concur with this project, and yes, I

3331
03:23:27,800 --> 03:23:33,160
Speaker 1: concur with this and UM enjoy enjoy participating in things

3332
03:23:33,200 --> 03:23:36,959
Speaker 1: that lead to those outcomes because it is it's a

3333
03:23:37,760 --> 03:23:40,840
Speaker 1: because they want us dead anyway, Like that's that's that is,

3334
03:23:40,920 --> 03:23:43,560
Speaker 1: that is what they're doing, that's what they're complacent with. UM.

3335
03:23:43,600 --> 03:23:46,720
Speaker 1: I think it is also an important thing to note

3336
03:23:46,760 --> 03:23:50,280
Speaker 1: that UM in terms of like good news, like not

3337
03:23:50,320 --> 03:23:52,440
Speaker 1: all of these bills are passing Like on on this show,

3338
03:23:52,440 --> 03:23:54,080
Speaker 1: we've talked a lot about the bills that have passed.

3339
03:23:54,120 --> 03:23:55,720
Speaker 1: We have talked about all the stuff that has been

3340
03:23:55,760 --> 03:23:59,080
Speaker 1: going on, but there is not not not all of them,

3341
03:23:59,120 --> 03:24:00,680
Speaker 1: not all of them are going through And that is

3342
03:24:00,720 --> 03:24:02,879
Speaker 1: an important thing to talk about it doesn't mean the

3343
03:24:02,879 --> 03:24:06,840
Speaker 1: fight's over because they're gonna try again. Um. But that

3344
03:24:06,959 --> 03:24:10,000
Speaker 1: is the other thing I think is worth is worth

3345
03:24:10,040 --> 03:24:18,280
Speaker 1: mentioning and states from you know, Florida to Idaho to Washington, Utah, Virginia,

3346
03:24:18,360 --> 03:24:21,039
Speaker 1: like at least there is not there is stuff that

3347
03:24:21,120 --> 03:24:24,600
Speaker 1: is getting blocked um or at least not going through.

3348
03:24:25,160 --> 03:24:29,640
Speaker 1: And there's a lesson that needs to be learned from

3349
03:24:29,879 --> 03:24:32,720
Speaker 1: how the right operates in this because what they did

3350
03:24:32,760 --> 03:24:37,400
Speaker 1: for years was opposed equal rights, was opposed things in

3351
03:24:37,440 --> 03:24:41,000
Speaker 1: a variety of ways socially and through legislation that failed,

3352
03:24:41,040 --> 03:24:43,560
Speaker 1: and it was fail fail, fail, fail fail for a

3353
03:24:43,600 --> 03:24:47,680
Speaker 1: long time until they started to succeed. And part of

3354
03:24:47,680 --> 03:24:50,959
Speaker 1: why they succeeded is because they were continuously building a

3355
03:24:51,040 --> 03:24:55,440
Speaker 1: wide ranging and powerful machine to push this stuff through,

3356
03:24:55,520 --> 03:24:58,360
Speaker 1: learning from their failures, grabbing more power, getting better at

3357
03:24:58,400 --> 03:25:03,200
Speaker 1: messaging and like that. Ultimately, the same attitude needs to

3358
03:25:03,240 --> 03:25:06,280
Speaker 1: be had, like when when one of these laws gets

3359
03:25:06,320 --> 03:25:09,240
Speaker 1: struck down, it's not a sign that the fight's been one,

3360
03:25:09,320 --> 03:25:12,720
Speaker 1: it's a sign um to keep pushing. Like it's this

3361
03:25:12,800 --> 03:25:14,200
Speaker 1: kind of thing where you have to you have to

3362
03:25:14,200 --> 03:25:16,400
Speaker 1: pay attention to the way they built this over the

3363
03:25:16,400 --> 03:25:21,120
Speaker 1: course of really thirty or forty years UM, because it

3364
03:25:21,160 --> 03:25:25,640
Speaker 1: has to be done something a counter a counterweight, a

3365
03:25:25,720 --> 03:25:29,680
Speaker 1: machine capable of applying equal pressure in the opposite direction

3366
03:25:29,720 --> 03:25:31,000
Speaker 1: has to be built, and it has to be built

3367
03:25:31,080 --> 03:25:34,480
Speaker 1: very quickly. Well. And nine out of the nine out

3368
03:25:34,480 --> 03:25:37,480
Speaker 1: of ten of these bills die and so nearly two

3369
03:25:38,080 --> 03:25:40,080
Speaker 1: and seventy I think it's two and sixty four is

3370
03:25:40,080 --> 03:25:42,560
Speaker 1: the actual account of how many anti trans bills have

3371
03:25:42,600 --> 03:25:44,760
Speaker 1: been proposed in the last two years since the last

3372
03:25:44,760 --> 03:25:51,160
Speaker 1: selection UH, and only have become law. So they're really

3373
03:25:51,200 --> 03:25:54,040
Speaker 1: just playing a numbers game, right, They're just forcing it

3374
03:25:54,200 --> 03:25:57,959
Speaker 1: through UM and they're not going to stop. And we

3375
03:25:59,000 --> 03:26:01,960
Speaker 1: in Texas it was so hard last year because I

3376
03:26:02,000 --> 03:26:05,600
Speaker 1: remember the last day of the legislative session. We were

3377
03:26:05,600 --> 03:26:08,240
Speaker 1: all there until midnight and cheered so hard when it

3378
03:26:08,320 --> 03:26:10,680
Speaker 1: was done, and we're like this BILK can't come back.

3379
03:26:11,120 --> 03:26:14,240
Speaker 1: And then we faced special session followed by special sessions

3380
03:26:14,280 --> 03:26:16,560
Speaker 1: followed by special session where they're like, we are pushing

3381
03:26:16,560 --> 03:26:23,360
Speaker 1: through this trans legislation and the war is not gonna stop.

3382
03:26:24,440 --> 03:26:28,720
Speaker 1: We we we're maybe gonna We're gonna win a lot

3383
03:26:28,760 --> 03:26:31,240
Speaker 1: of battles. We're gonna win the majority of battles, but

3384
03:26:31,480 --> 03:26:35,120
Speaker 1: they're not playing it to win those individual fights. They're

3385
03:26:35,160 --> 03:26:38,280
Speaker 1: playing to eventually exterminate us. And they're really gaining a

3386
03:26:38,320 --> 03:26:41,640
Speaker 1: lot of ground and we're way behind on building our

3387
03:26:41,640 --> 03:26:43,920
Speaker 1: machine to fight it. And this is all happening in

3388
03:26:43,959 --> 03:26:48,320
Speaker 1: the context of, you know, a a very very explicit

3389
03:26:48,640 --> 03:26:55,040
Speaker 1: mask off movement to essentially destroy American democracy and replace

3390
03:26:55,120 --> 03:26:58,560
Speaker 1: it with Christian fascism, right, And we are the scapeboat,

3391
03:26:58,600 --> 03:27:03,640
Speaker 1: We are the enemy that they are currently identifying for elimination. Right.

3392
03:27:03,720 --> 03:27:07,200
Speaker 1: So like it's you know, for them, they're like, I

3393
03:27:07,200 --> 03:27:10,360
Speaker 1: can score some points if I encourage this trans kid

3394
03:27:10,360 --> 03:27:13,800
Speaker 1: to kill themselves, right, Um. And for us, it's like

3395
03:27:14,400 --> 03:27:19,160
Speaker 1: an existential threat that we maybe watching the United States

3396
03:27:19,240 --> 03:27:26,480
Speaker 1: descend into, you know, an irreversible chasm of authoritarianism and violence. Uh.

3397
03:27:26,520 --> 03:27:28,000
Speaker 1: And you know that's going to be bad for trans

3398
03:27:28,040 --> 03:27:38,880
Speaker 1: people too. Yeah, yeah, very very understated. How can how

3399
03:27:38,920 --> 03:27:41,840
Speaker 1: can if people are interested in tear it up and

3400
03:27:41,879 --> 03:27:44,240
Speaker 1: what they're doing, how can people find out more info

3401
03:27:45,000 --> 03:27:48,160
Speaker 1: online about how to keep up with stuff and um

3402
03:27:48,240 --> 03:27:53,960
Speaker 1: and what what y'all do? So I think the best

3403
03:27:53,959 --> 03:27:57,880
Speaker 1: place to I guess get little updates. Um, it's the Twitter,

3404
03:27:57,959 --> 03:28:02,240
Speaker 1: which is at Tear it Up or Twitter, um. And

3405
03:28:02,280 --> 03:28:08,840
Speaker 1: then additionally we have our website, uh, which is www

3406
03:28:08,920 --> 03:28:15,320
Speaker 1: dot tear it Up dot org and yes good um.

3407
03:28:15,440 --> 03:28:19,560
Speaker 1: And then if you come and get involved and uh,

3408
03:28:19,680 --> 03:28:21,720
Speaker 1: you can get invite to our discord. We're trying to

3409
03:28:21,760 --> 03:28:24,640
Speaker 1: grow that out a little slowly and stick with folks

3410
03:28:24,680 --> 03:28:26,920
Speaker 1: that we know are getting involved in the fight while

3411
03:28:26,959 --> 03:28:30,640
Speaker 1: we sort of build the initial foundation of this. But

3412
03:28:30,680 --> 03:28:32,920
Speaker 1: that's the place to find us right now. Twitter, Instagram

3413
03:28:32,920 --> 03:28:35,440
Speaker 1: as well. We're also Teared Up Teared Up ord on

3414
03:28:35,480 --> 03:28:39,160
Speaker 1: Instagram and have a Facebook page. But who the fuck

3415
03:28:39,240 --> 03:28:43,560
Speaker 1: uses Facebook? I mean, actually, so our Facebook. We won't

3416
03:28:43,680 --> 03:28:45,120
Speaker 1: be posting a lot of stuff, but a lot of

3417
03:28:45,120 --> 03:28:47,320
Speaker 1: our events will go through Facebook because in a lot

3418
03:28:47,360 --> 03:28:50,560
Speaker 1: of the Midwest and the South, a lot of people

3419
03:28:50,600 --> 03:28:53,680
Speaker 1: still use Facebook, which is probably bad. Turns out that's

3420
03:28:53,720 --> 03:28:57,760
Speaker 1: not helping I think, um, But those are the places

3421
03:28:58,360 --> 03:29:02,280
Speaker 1: go find us, um and then come get involved. We're

3422
03:29:02,280 --> 03:29:04,960
Speaker 1: gonna be doing a lot more. We've sort of been

3423
03:29:05,000 --> 03:29:07,560
Speaker 1: on a break for a week because we did of

3424
03:29:07,760 --> 03:29:10,240
Speaker 1: ship ton of events last month all at once and

3425
03:29:10,320 --> 03:29:12,960
Speaker 1: kind of needed a week off. But staring next week

3426
03:29:12,959 --> 03:29:15,200
Speaker 1: we're going to be posting a lot and organizing and

3427
03:29:15,200 --> 03:29:19,320
Speaker 1: pulling together some community and social events and some more protests.

3428
03:29:20,120 --> 03:29:21,960
Speaker 1: And even if you don't want to, even if you

3429
03:29:22,000 --> 03:29:25,080
Speaker 1: don't want to join, join the organization. Specifically, if you're

3430
03:29:25,120 --> 03:29:27,240
Speaker 1: a sist ally who's listening to this and you're like

3431
03:29:27,320 --> 03:29:30,640
Speaker 1: this sucks, I hate it, I'd like to do something. Um,

3432
03:29:30,760 --> 03:29:33,760
Speaker 1: we'll we're gonna have things like you know, postering, like

3433
03:29:33,800 --> 03:29:36,600
Speaker 1: postering resources and stickers and all kinds of stuff that

3434
03:29:36,640 --> 03:29:38,800
Speaker 1: you can that you can grab and like just go

3435
03:29:38,879 --> 03:29:41,800
Speaker 1: paint the town. Yeah, let it. Let it be known

3436
03:29:41,879 --> 03:29:43,840
Speaker 1: that trans people won't be a race, but we are

3437
03:29:43,879 --> 03:29:48,160
Speaker 1: fighting back. We're a very pro graffiti organization. Um, please

3438
03:29:48,560 --> 03:29:54,520
Speaker 1: bully your local politicians and uh sticker every service surface

3439
03:29:54,560 --> 03:29:57,720
Speaker 1: you can get, get some paint pens. I think I

3440
03:29:57,760 --> 03:29:59,920
Speaker 1: think I'll do an upcoming episode on how to make

3441
03:30:00,320 --> 03:30:03,640
Speaker 1: or how to do wheat pasting. Yeah, as as a

3442
03:30:03,720 --> 03:30:08,280
Speaker 1: fun as as some fun uh content for you for

3443
03:30:08,360 --> 03:30:12,480
Speaker 1: you fans of content out there. But yes, follow follow

3444
03:30:13,000 --> 03:30:15,480
Speaker 1: the tear it Up account on the twitters. That's how

3445
03:30:15,520 --> 03:30:18,440
Speaker 1: I've been mostly keeping up with it, besides just asking

3446
03:30:18,560 --> 03:30:21,360
Speaker 1: people because I know who they are of. But the

3447
03:30:21,400 --> 03:30:25,880
Speaker 1: Twitter Twitter is definitely a good a good resource. Um, yeah,

3448
03:30:25,879 --> 03:30:28,800
Speaker 1: I guess any any kind of any other any other

3449
03:30:28,840 --> 03:30:31,080
Speaker 1: thoughts or notes that she would like to to add

3450
03:30:31,240 --> 03:30:35,720
Speaker 1: before we before we wrap up here, can I say fun,

3451
03:30:35,800 --> 03:30:43,560
Speaker 1: grag abbitt? Can we all just say actually k ivy? Uh? Also,

3452
03:30:43,840 --> 03:30:48,039
Speaker 1: um yeah, fun, lots of governors, a lot of the

3453
03:30:48,080 --> 03:30:53,360
Speaker 1: governor's not most most stuff. I think the vast majority

3454
03:30:53,360 --> 03:30:57,480
Speaker 1: of governors should go funk themselves. And um, I'll see

3455
03:30:57,520 --> 03:31:01,560
Speaker 1: them in how Yeah. Yeah, Um, that's a good at

3456
03:31:01,560 --> 03:31:05,080
Speaker 1: all plug your plug your history podcast because queer history

3457
03:31:05,240 --> 03:31:09,000
Speaker 1: sounds like a great thing that people should learn more about. Yeah. Well,

3458
03:31:09,080 --> 03:31:14,160
Speaker 1: so it's the Totally trans podcast network. We might also

3459
03:31:14,160 --> 03:31:17,600
Speaker 1: come up as Totally trans Searching for the trans Cannon. Uh.

3460
03:31:17,720 --> 03:31:20,040
Speaker 1: We were originally just the one show where we talked

3461
03:31:20,080 --> 03:31:22,960
Speaker 1: about pop culture and history. It was me and writer

3462
03:31:23,120 --> 03:31:27,520
Speaker 1: Henry Jardina. And now we have a slate of shows

3463
03:31:27,520 --> 03:31:31,040
Speaker 1: that we do all on the same feed. Um. One

3464
03:31:31,240 --> 03:31:33,440
Speaker 1: that talks about comics, one that talks about history that

3465
03:31:33,520 --> 03:31:38,400
Speaker 1: I love that the playwright Katie Coleman does, um called

3466
03:31:38,400 --> 03:31:41,279
Speaker 1: Our Sacred History. And then we have we just started

3467
03:31:41,320 --> 03:31:44,080
Speaker 1: the newest season of Totally Trans Searching for the trans Cannon,

3468
03:31:44,160 --> 03:31:49,000
Speaker 1: where we're talking about finding lessons from history and queer

3469
03:31:49,040 --> 03:31:57,840
Speaker 1: culture and pop culture love. Yeah, all right, yeah, buy

3470
03:31:57,879 --> 03:32:03,400
Speaker 1: some paint pens, uh, show up to actions if you can, um,

3471
03:32:03,520 --> 03:32:07,080
Speaker 1: and learn to make some trouble. Yeah. Also, megaphones are

3472
03:32:07,080 --> 03:32:10,200
Speaker 1: only forty dollars from Harbor Freight, just saying you can

3473
03:32:10,240 --> 03:32:13,840
Speaker 1: get really loud, really cheap. And it's generally legal to

3474
03:32:13,840 --> 03:32:18,160
Speaker 1: shout at people from outside their homes, although not not always.

3475
03:32:18,280 --> 03:32:21,160
Speaker 1: That can get you in some trouble, but not necessary.

3476
03:32:21,280 --> 03:32:24,840
Speaker 1: Check your local sound ordinances and bring a volume meter

3477
03:32:25,040 --> 03:32:27,840
Speaker 1: and really just amplify yourself just to that level, and

3478
03:32:27,959 --> 03:32:30,520
Speaker 1: learn how to add an audio so you can really

3479
03:32:30,560 --> 03:32:33,480
Speaker 1: just dial it in. Find the lawyer and consult with

3480
03:32:33,520 --> 03:32:36,959
Speaker 1: them first. Yes. Also, personally, I would like to say

3481
03:32:36,959 --> 03:32:41,360
Speaker 1: forced from all anti trans politicians who say that you

3482
03:32:41,360 --> 03:32:45,600
Speaker 1: can be peer pressured into transitioning. Um. I am personally

3483
03:32:45,640 --> 03:32:48,520
Speaker 1: trying to force from Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick. It hasn't

3484
03:32:48,520 --> 03:32:52,160
Speaker 1: worked yet, but he's very insistent it will work eventually.

3485
03:32:52,360 --> 03:32:55,000
Speaker 1: So I do feel like the right way to pursue

3486
03:32:55,000 --> 03:32:59,840
Speaker 1: that is just by deregulation and then poisoning the water supply. Well,

3487
03:33:00,480 --> 03:33:10,080
Speaker 1: well that doesn't for us today. Hey, we'll be back Monday,

3488
03:33:10,200 --> 03:33:13,160
Speaker 1: with more episodes every week from now until the heat

3489
03:33:13,160 --> 03:33:15,520
Speaker 1: death of the universe. It Could Happen Here is a

3490
03:33:15,560 --> 03:33:18,400
Speaker 1: production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool

3491
03:33:18,480 --> 03:33:21,160
Speaker 1: Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com,

3492
03:33:21,280 --> 03:33:23,000
Speaker 1: or check us out on the I Heart Radio app,

3493
03:33:23,040 --> 03:33:26,400
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

3494
03:33:26,400 --> 03:33:29,119
Speaker 1: find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at

3495
03:33:29,120 --> 03:33:32,400
Speaker 1: cool zone Media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.