WEBVTT - TechStuff Classic: The Wonderful Wizard Named Woz 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.240 Welcome to tech Stuff, a production of I Heart Radios. 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:13.760 How Stuff Works. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. 0:00:13.800 --> 0:00:17.400 I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with 0:00:17.560 --> 0:00:20.360 I Heart Radio and I love all things tech. And 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:23.200 it is Friday. That means it is time for another 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:28.680 classic episode. And this episode published on January second, two 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:34.760 thousand thirteen. It is also Chris Palette's final episode as 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:38.599 a co host of tech Stuff. Chris and I created 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:40.800 tech Stuff back in two thousand and eight, and in 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:45.159 two thousand thirteen he decided to step away from the 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:51.120 show to focus on other things, and he definitely put 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:54.720 his imprint on tech Stuff. Tech Stuff would not be 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:57.920 the show it is without Chris Palette. This was the 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:02.360 topic he decided he wanted to cover as his final episode. 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:07.280 The wonderful wizard named was Steve Wasniak. I hope you 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:12.400 guys enjoy the curtain sweeps down, the spotlight goes out 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:16.240 on our beloved Chris Palette. It is his final tech 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:19.200 Stuff episode. This is not a joke. We may eventually 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:20.840 be able to get him back on as a guest, 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:23.920 but he's this is his his final episode as a 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:27.039 host of tech Stuff. And uh, and he got to 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:31.320 choose whatever topic he wanted. Unfortunately, almost all of them 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:35.120 were ones we had already covered. Well. Actually, it surprised 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:38.720 me that we didn't have a podcast on the person 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:41.920 that we wanted to talk about today. Yeah. We we've 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:45.959 mentioned him in several podcasts. Yeah, but yeah, we definitely 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:48.760 one of text more colorful characters, right, and that, of 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:52.320 course is the wonderful wizard named was was, yes, Steve 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:59.040 Stephen Gary Wazniak. Yeah, um, one of the co founders 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:02.520 of Apple. And he was born in on August eleventh, 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:07.120 nine and uh. He came from a family that was 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:11.520 technologically inclined. His dad was an engineer at a little 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:14.440 company called lockeed Martin. I feel like I've heard of that. 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:19.000 Yeah and uh and yeah he um. As a as 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:23.640 a kid, he became very interested in engineering and electronics. 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:27.119 Did you did you hear about what his favorite book 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:30.600 series was that kind of inspired him? Actually it was 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:33.480 the I looked at a lot of interviews. He's actually 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:36.440 if you've never seen an interview with Wozniak, he's a 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:41.520 very animated individual, well spoken, very passionate about what he does. 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:46.320 It's clearly he truly enjoys technology like there's no irony there. 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:50.280 He just loves it. And though he doesn't necessarily love 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:53.280 all the things that we do with technology or the 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:56.480 way that companies handle technology, he's not He actually is 0:02:56.480 --> 0:02:58.760 not so not in such a big fan of big companies. 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:01.639 But we'll get an to that. But no, as a kid, 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:06.880 his favorite book series was the Tom Swift series. So 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:09.079 Tom Swift, if you don't know, he's a young man 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:11.640 who is a kind of an engineer who could build 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:14.200 just about anything in his own company. He would fight 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:17.480 evil and and solve mysteries and things of that nature. 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:21.160 And in fact, just as a tangent, Tom Swift plays 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:23.840 a role in a in a totally different technology has 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:27.120 nothing to do with Wozniak. Do you do you happen 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:31.440 to know what Tom Swift? It's actually his. Tom Swift's 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:36.240 name is lent in a way to this technology. Really. Yeah, 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:41.920 it's Taser. Oh right, Taser stands Taser's technically an acronym. 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:46.200 It stands for Thomas A. Swift's electric rifle. You know, 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:48.320 I think we mentioned that a long time ago when 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:51.160 we talked about the Taser. Yeah, I think so. But yeah, 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:54.680 he in an interview. He credited the Tom Swift books 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:59.800 as igniting his imagination at the idea of creating things 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:03.240 electronics and being able to have kind of, you know, 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:07.280 the equivalent of these adventures, and having a dad who 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:11.440 was an engineer at Lockeed Martin didn't hurt because it 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:14.840 turned out he had a really good person to go 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:18.560 to when those science fairs came up in elementary school. 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:23.360 Well yeah, yeah, and uh it certainly wouldn't have hurt 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:28.160 his interest in technology to have a family that understood 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:31.360 and supported those interests too. They go, oh, you know, hey, 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:34.039 this is something I like too, so you know, yeah, 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:39.599 we should uh stop clowning around, he said foolishly. I 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:42.799 was a a Tom Swift e nice, he's a he's 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:46.640 a Yeah, he had a He credited his dad and 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:51.160 some of his teachers in elementary school as really inspiring him. Essentially, 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:53.560 he said that, uh, you know, when he started to 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:57.520 excel at science, Uh, the teachers responded, and that just 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:01.200 drove him to make even more accomplishments in that area. 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:04.000 So by the time he was in sixth grade, he 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:09.039 actually built a fairly primitive but a working computer that 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:12.039 could play Tic tac toe and you know, we all 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:15.120 know from the documentary War Games that it's just a 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:17.800 short hop, skip and a jump from Tic tac toe 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:22.119 to thermonuclear war. Of course, you know, shall we play 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:26.599 a game? Thanks Whopper? Hey nice you remembered the name 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:31.239 and everything. Yeah, I've I've watched that documentary several times. 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:34.680 So the old cup modems where you actually had to 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:39.680 put the phone and I'm sure actually it's probably remembers 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:42.280 those days. Oh yeah, we'll get into that a little 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:44.440 bit too. Well. I was has also got a bit 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:47.200 of a mischievous streak in him. Um a bit, yeah, 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:49.479 a bit of a mischievous streak. That was a bit 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:52.560 of an understatement. Yeah, well to it well. In sixth 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:56.599 grade he also got his ham radio license, So obviously 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:59.719 he was very much interested in electronics and technology and 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:03.000 can indication all of these things would play a very 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:06.440 large role in his choices further down the line. And 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:10.719 according to laws, he said, he never took any courses 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:14.640 on building electronics or computers. He just learned how to 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:16.360 do that all on his own, at least at least 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:19.440 in the elementary in high school years. Once you get 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:23.279 to college, he actually was pursuing originally Uh. When he 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:25.880 when he first enrolled, he was pursuing a degree in 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:30.120 electrical engineering and computer science at the University of California 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:33.520 at Berkeley. Yeah, and that's that's sort of a lesson 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:36.360 for all of us. You know. Um, sometimes programming and 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:39.359 fiddling with electronics and those kinds of things can seem 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:42.040 really daunting, and it feels like, you know, you start 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:44.240 dabbling in and it feels like you need a degree 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:47.960 in computer science or electrical engineering to do these things. 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:50.320 You don't. You just have to have an interest and 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:54.080 get the right right place to start. And it also 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:58.640 helps to uh surround yourself within other fellow enthusiasts. Yeah, 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:03.440 and it didn't hurt that was is categorically a genius 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:06.880 in certain arenas, so that gave him a leg up 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:09.800 as well. But tales details. Yeah, Well, while in while 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:12.840 in the both in high school and in college, he 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:15.920 began to associate with other people who are really interested 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:19.560 in electronics and technology. Uh and uh he was part 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:22.520 of a homebrew computer club. Yes, that would be v 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:26.720 homebrew computer club. Yeah. Back back in the mid seventies, 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:31.840 um was was at the University of California at Berkeley. 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:37.000 Um and uh, he was he was interested in attending this, uh, 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:40.480 this nearby computer club, the Homebrew Computer Club, and uh 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.760 there were actually quite a few people of note who 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:46.560 are part of this UM. But they were interested in 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:49.360 before you get into the details of that kind of thing, 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:51.840 this group was really kind of interested in what you 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:55.280 could do with computers because, uh, in the mid nineties seventies, 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:58.400 we weren't talking about uh, machines like the Apple too, 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:00.800 where you had a monitor toing on top of a 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:03.920 computer with a keyboard and you would program stuff. I mean, 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:06.440 we were uh, they were interested in in the large 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:08.920 part and things like the Altaire, which had no monitor. 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:12.520 You you would read, um, the the output of this 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:15.160 device by the blinking lights or you know, in German 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:19.640 dust princing light, as many a many many jokes have gone. 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:22.480 But really, I mean, it wasn't It wasn't something that 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:25.280 the average person would probably be likely in picking up, 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:28.560 simply because there was kind of a barrier of entry. 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:31.240 It was hard to understand for people who were sort 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:34.360 of passingly interested in it. And we talked about the 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:37.679 IBM s and the machines that corporate customers would use 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:41.400 where you had punch cards and and you know, printing 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:45.080 and large storage devices and things like that. Well, yeah, 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:48.040 I mean those were far more easy in some ways 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:52.280 to understand because there were more ways to interact with 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:56.600 those machines, but they were also hugely expensive and took 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:58.480 up a lot more space than something like the Altair. 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:01.200 This is the kind of divice ice that got people thinking, 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:03.360 you know, I could have a computer in my house. 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:06.000 I could do things with a computer. I could program 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:08.040 this thing this, this could be fun. What could I 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:10.079 do with this? And that's really what this group was 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:13.160 all about. And there were other people, uh interested in 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:17.080 this as well, like a guy named Jobs, and I 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:21.320 believe a couple of guys named Alan and Gates to 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:24.520 show up in the logs, and there were there were 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:28.120 other people who interacted with all of those guys that 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:31.200 that floated in and out of that culture out there 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:34.400 in California around that time. Yeah, this is this is 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:37.880 the birth of the personal computer age. And we're talking 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:41.920 about the the very early days and uh and you know, 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:44.160 of course Bosniak plays a very large role in that, 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:48.720 but also uh he had other interests in in finding 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:52.920 out how stuff works, which you know we can appreciate, um, 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:57.040 like the phone system. He was, he was known to 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:00.640 engage in a little phone freaking now and then. We 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:03.280 actually have talked about phone freaking in the past. Essentially, 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:06.800 what phone freaking was was finding out how the telephone 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:11.760 system worked and then exploiting that knowledge by being able 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:13.840 to UH to create things that would allow you to 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:19.199 make free phone calls. Um. Usually it would involve recreating 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:23.360 a certain kind of tone that the phone would then 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:26.719 um not recognize the fact that you were dialing. It 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:29.679 wouldn't register that, so it act as if the line 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:32.680 had not been engaged, whereas you could actually make the 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:36.880 call for free. So UM, there are a lot of 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:39.280 different kits that you could do this with. There, of course, 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:44.960 was the famous UH whistle, Yes, UH, the the Captain 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:48.320 crunch whistle, or you could whistle into a phone and 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:51.680 with this particular toy whistle that came in the Cereal 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:56.040 and UH it would recreate the exact pitch you needed 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:59.040 in order to UH to hack the phone system. That 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:02.520 changed before too long and they had to start creating 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:06.640 electronic devices that could generate Normally it would be two 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:10.520 tones together to be able to UH to actually hack 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:15.080 into a phone system. Yeah. Well, um, if if you 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.520 haven't done any research into into phone freaking or listen 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:21.840 to the podcast from Man that was a long time. UM. 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:25.400 Basically that the deal was that they had the system 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:29.000 in place so that the phone company could do maintenance 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:31.880 work and the phone technicians out in the field could 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:35.640 use these certain codes. UM. In the case of one 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:38.320 of them, it was a high E played three times 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:41.160 and that would unlock the system. It was a very 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:44.440 analog system at that point. And uh, you know they 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:48.640 the phone company actually published information on this in their 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:52.720 Bell Technical Journal, which was available at your local library, 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:55.600 and certain people figured this out and any whistle. This 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:59.200 is famous because a famous phone freaker named Captain Crunch 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:03.080 named that because he realized that the toy whistle that 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:05.440 you found in a box of cereal, I'll let you 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:11.160 guess which brand, Um, yes, exactly. How How did you know? Um? 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:14.000 You could you could play exactly that note. That's all 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:15.400 you needed. You all you had. All you had to 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:19.360 do was know that the code and have that whistle. UM. 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:21.520 And of course Bell went nuts trying to get the 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:25.000 technical that copy of the technical Journal back off the shelf. 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:30.200 That this was a mistake to let that information get 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:33.600 outside the door of Bell. Yeah, that was not not 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:37.160 a great move. We published this, you're not supposed to 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:40.440 want to read about it. Yeah, but people who were 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:43.880 interested in electronics, I mean, clearly something as complex as 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:47.960 the telephone uh system would be fascinating to them, and 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:51.840 that included people like wasn't it Yes? Absolutely? And uh 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:55.600 it's it's famous that he and Steve Jobs were actually 0:12:55.600 --> 0:13:00.520 building phone freaking systems for other people, um and and 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:05.600 trying to sell them, which they did on a small scale, 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:09.280 and that which kind of set the ground for for 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:12.640 their future endeavors together. They He actually did withdraw from 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:16.880 the University of California before completing his degree and began 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:21.280 to work for Hewlett Packard and was an an engineer there. 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:28.360 He actually worked specifically on designing calculators. Meanwhile, Jobs kind 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:30.680 of came up with this idea. Now, but when you 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:35.040 talk about Jobs in Wosniac, they had very different roles 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:39.680 when in those early days of Apple, right, Steve Jobs 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:42.600 was an idea guy, he was a business guy, and 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:46.480 he was a marketing guy most more than anything else. 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:50.119 He was a marketing genius. Yeah. I've been reading Isaacson's 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:52.640 biography of Steve Jobs, and I'm still not quite done 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:55.559 with it yet, but I have passed through the early 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:58.880 stages of Apple. There and apparently when they were working 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:03.600 on the Apple one, which was a very basic computer. UM. 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:05.439 As a matter of fact, you had the the very 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:10.320 early machines weren't really machines. They were a set of boards, 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:13.720 basically motherboards and pieces that you would assemble into a 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:17.439 case and use it as a computer UM, which sold 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:20.960 for as Jonathan likes to point out, the sum of 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:25.600 six sixty six dollars and sixty six cents. Wozniak likes 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:30.480 repeating digits. Yeah. Apparently, well, according to them, it had 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:34.600 nothing to do with the symbolic nature of this in uh, 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:38.880 in religion, it was more THEO there was no but 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:44.040 it's hard to imagine that it it's an Apple computer. Yes. 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:49.080 Of course they also say that Apple was chosen for 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:53.600 other reasons than the Yeah. That's funny because because Wozniak 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:56.000 said that he had just guessed at some point that 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:58.640 the reason why Steve Jobs wanted to call the company 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:00.800 Apple was that Steve Jobs had worked for a while 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:04.040 in an orchard in either Washington or Oregon, and that 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:07.440 that perhaps gave him the idea which may or may 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:09.200 not be the case, because he said the thing about 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:11.080 Jobs was that he would come up with ideas but 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:15.440 not necessarily explain to you how he came up with him. Yeah, yeah, 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:17.640 that's true. We also should point out that there was 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:21.280 this time in jobs life where he was expanding his 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:25.920 consciousness a little bit. Yes, yes, Um, Jobs attended read 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:30.080 college up in Oregon and did not finish there, but 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.360 was was very interested in a number of things, including, uh, 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:37.880 expanding one's horizons to the use of chemical substances. Yes, 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:41.360 that's very very diplomatic way of putting it. That's not 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:44.320 I don't get the sense that that was is interested 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:47.120 in that. I think he likes to expand his consciousness 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:50.800 through technological means, which again shows that difference. Jobs was 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:53.720 this marketer and Wozniak was the engineer. He was the 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:57.760 guy who was really designing the technology. Yeah, well that 0:15:57.880 --> 0:16:00.840 was That was actually exactly My point is according to 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:04.840 the isaacs and story, Um was wanted to give away 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:08.120 the design for the original boards for the Apple One, 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:10.840 and Jobs said no, no, no, we could sell this thing. 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:14.120 We can make a company, And that intrigue was just 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:17.880 enough to go, Okay, yeah, let's give it a try. Yeah, 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:22.120 because before at at the Homebrew Computer Club, Wasniak would 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:25.720 distribute designs that he would come up with for for 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:29.520 computer kids. He would design them on paper and then 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:31.960 he would just distribute copies of it to the other members. 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:34.680 And jobs was getting to the point where he's like, 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:38.360 you know, if we didn't give these away for free, 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:43.520 I bet people would pay for them. And so yeah, 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:47.160 he he convinced Wozniak to go in with him on 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:51.640 a venture together, and this was the idea of Apple. Yeah, 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:55.000 and it wasn't It wasn't easy, Um, you know, Wasosniac 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:58.640 was a little reticent to leave HP. I mean, you 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:00.600 think about it if you were if your buddy is 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:04.080 telling you, hey, let's go start a company. Meanwhile you're 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:07.359 in with a very strong technology company and you're you know, 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:10.920 you've got a good job, it's secure, and it's like, well, 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:12.719 they're on on the one hand, you got the allure 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:15.720 of of you know, this opportunity to do something really cool, 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:18.320 but hey, you know, there's not a lot of security, 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:20.280 and it's starting your own company can be a challenge, 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:21.760 and it can be a lot of work, and it 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:25.400 can be scary. Yeah, And a first guarantee, right at first. 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:28.639 He did continue to work with HP, didn't quit immediately. 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:32.600 And in fact, one of the stories about founding Apple 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:34.600 is that they had to in order to raise the 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:38.720 capital they needed, which was not that much by today's standards. 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:41.160 I mean, even if you were to convert into today's dollars, 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:43.399 they it was a fairly low investment. In fact, that 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:45.120 was one of the things that Steve Jobs was able 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:48.480 to to use to convince Bosnia to try. It was 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:52.480 because the investment was not going to be prohibitively large, 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:55.400 but it's still required that they raised some capital, and 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:57.960 they did it by selling off stuff that they owned, 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:03.040 and Wozniak sold off his beloved scientific calculator, Yes, which 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:06.280 at the time was a pretty hot piece of technology. Yeah, 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:09.879 for around something something to the tune of around five 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:12.080 dollars at the time, which you know in the seventies. 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:14.760 That's that's it's still a good chunk of change, right, 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:18.520 It's it was even more so back then. And uh, 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.000 the interesting thing to me was that when I read 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:25.080 an interview, a more recent interview, wasn't he act really 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:28.359 downplayed that? He said, he said, uh, well, here's the 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:31.199 thing I'm still technically working for HP, and because I 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:34.560 worked for HP, I could buy the next new calculator 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:37.200 before it came out and at a lower price than 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:40.560 I did the older calculator. So uh so I thought, 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:44.000 even at this company that I'm working on with jobs 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:47.919 goes belly up, I still, um, I still have the 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:50.440 protection of working for this other company, and I can 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:54.959 get my calculator back. Yeah, that's um, which is an 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:56.920 important part of context that I think a lot of 0:18:56.920 --> 0:19:01.200 people miss. Um. But yeah, the the Apple one did 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:04.239 reasonably well within those circles, and they started working on 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:08.359 the Apple too. Um. Jobs play, I mean, jobs played 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:11.199 a good part in the getting it into stores, But 0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:13.680 Wazniak had a lot to do with the back end 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:20.080 of that machine, especially the the Basic language implement implementation. 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:23.280 There you go. He was unfamiliar with Basic at first, 0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:26.600 and uh, just kind of funny. It's funny, it's hard, 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.360 but not with Basic. It's also funny that he got 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:33.119 really uh he started to really say the basic version 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:37.199 that HP uses, which is not the same as the 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:43.360 Basic language that that Bill Gates was working on. So um, 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:45.560 it was he was coming at it from a different 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:48.159 approach because he was you know, I think at the 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:50.080 time he was actually working under the assumption that was 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:52.600 essentially the same thing, but turned out it was two 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:59.280 different versions of basic to two pretty significant different versions. Also, 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:01.840 I should point out, so so they founded Apple in 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:04.719 nineteen seventy six, and it wasn't it was just nineteen 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:07.800 seventy seven when Apple two came out, so that that 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:11.080 first Apple, we should really point out, it was more 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:14.320 like a almost like a run of prototypes. It would 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:18.320 they only made a small, a relatively small number of 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:20.920 these because, for one thing, they didn't know how big 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:23.120 the demand was going to be. They knew that their 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:27.200 fellow computer enthusiasts would enjoy this kind of thing because 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:30.520 they also shared the vision that computers would one day 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:33.919 be an integral part of our lives. But at the time, 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:40.080 the average person, like the average consumer, didn't necessarily have 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.000 any desire or need for a computer, or at least 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:45.879 they didn't think they did. And uh, and so it 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:48.840 was it was definitely not a sure thing when they 0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:52.200 were first getting started. But nineteen seventy seven, Apple two 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:55.920 comes out, and I think, uh, I think you could 0:20:56.080 --> 0:21:00.760 describe its success as being meteoric. Oh yeah, yeah, Well, Um. 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:04.639 That's one of the reasons that Wozniak says that he 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:08.560 worked so hard on the basic HUM structure for the 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:14.200 two microprocessor was was simply that he realized that basic 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:17.840 was going to be a big help to people who 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:20.560 were going to adopt these and he wanted people to 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:25.080 understand that computers could play a significant role in their 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:27.520 personal lives. And so he said, you know this is 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:31.680 you know, I basically hunkered down to do this because 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:34.159 I knew this was going to be important. And that's 0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:36.760 that's something that you see when you look at that 0:21:36.840 --> 0:21:41.840 Steve Wozniak's career is that he obviously he's willing to 0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:46.160 put his his back into it and really work on 0:21:46.240 --> 0:21:50.200 something that he is very passionate about like this, Um 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:52.520 the very other you know, there are other things too. 0:21:52.560 --> 0:21:56.639 He talks about having to write the disc operating software 0:21:57.280 --> 0:21:59.879 for the the earlier machines, and he didn't this was 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:03.399 not something that he was familiar with. Yeah, he had 0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:06.440 never really used magnetic storage like that, but he made 0:22:06.440 --> 0:22:09.639 it work because he knew it was important. Um. Not 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:13.040 that not downe to discount other people all over the 0:22:13.040 --> 0:22:15.199 world who do this every day. But I'm saying you know, 0:22:15.440 --> 0:22:18.760 as we're looking at Steve Wozniak, this is uh technology 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:22.600 is is clearly part of his DNA, and it's it 0:22:22.920 --> 0:22:25.399 he he needs to to make it work. One of 0:22:25.400 --> 0:22:26.639 the things that I read about him too in the 0:22:26.680 --> 0:22:31.920 Isaacs and um biography of Jobs was that uh um, 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:37.360 apparently he was just really good at finding innovative solutions 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:40.080 to the challenges that that came up while they were 0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:45.240 creating the actual machines. His engineering expertise, it's more than 0:22:45.280 --> 0:22:48.560 just It's sort of like a virtuoso and a musical instrument. 0:22:48.880 --> 0:22:51.800 You have people who can play the instrument, but there 0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:53.879 are very few people that can that can pick it 0:22:54.000 --> 0:22:57.639 up and do something really brilliant with it that you 0:22:57.640 --> 0:23:00.400 wouldn't expect to do because they don't teach that. It's 0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:03.560 just the thing that you sort of innately have. Yeah, 0:23:03.600 --> 0:23:08.000 and apparently he is. He just got that um ability 0:23:08.080 --> 0:23:10.399 to to look at a technology and know how it 0:23:10.440 --> 0:23:12.119 works and go, well, you know what, I know, this 0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:14.879 isn't work in this way just for kicks, Let's plug 0:23:14.920 --> 0:23:16.560 this in this way and see if that works. Yeah. 0:23:16.680 --> 0:23:19.800 He he had a real interesting attitude too. He said that, 0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:23.480 you know, in general, in a broad stroke. He said, 0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:26.240 if he could build a machine that had two hundred 0:23:26.280 --> 0:23:28.480 chips in it, he would then look at that design 0:23:28.480 --> 0:23:30.360 and say, how can I build a machine that does 0:23:30.400 --> 0:23:32.639 the exact same thing this thing does, but with a 0:23:32.720 --> 0:23:34.920 hundred fifty chips? And he would do it. And then 0:23:34.920 --> 0:23:37.160 after that he'd say, okay, well, how can I build 0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:39.480 a machine that does all the things this machine does, 0:23:39.520 --> 0:23:42.959 but only with a hundred chips and just continuously refine 0:23:43.119 --> 0:23:45.920 that design so that it was more and more elegant 0:23:46.320 --> 0:23:49.280 and more efficient in each iteration. That was sort of 0:23:49.359 --> 0:23:53.160 his thought process, which is, you know, that's a good thing. Well, 0:23:53.160 --> 0:23:55.920 it's funny you should mention that because there there is 0:23:55.960 --> 0:23:59.920 another story that jobs in Wosniak were working to get 0:24:00.000 --> 0:24:03.800 there at Atari to develop a game machine. Now I 0:24:03.800 --> 0:24:06.440 don't think Wosniak was that, if my memory serves, It's 0:24:06.440 --> 0:24:08.480 been a few days since I've read that, Uh if 0:24:08.480 --> 0:24:13.399 Memory Serves Wasnac wasn't actually working for Atari. Um Jobs 0:24:13.480 --> 0:24:16.760 actually kind of convinced him to work on this project, 0:24:17.160 --> 0:24:19.360 but they they were supposed to. They were trying to 0:24:19.560 --> 0:24:22.320 create this machine and the challenge was it's like, hey, 0:24:22.400 --> 0:24:25.760 you know, if you can do this with uh fewer 0:24:25.840 --> 0:24:27.679 chips in this time period, we'll go ahead and go 0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:31.920 with this idea. So Jobs knew that Wosniak had the 0:24:31.920 --> 0:24:34.600 the expertise to make it work, and he did that. 0:24:34.680 --> 0:24:38.080 The point of doing this was to save money because 0:24:38.119 --> 0:24:44.040 these chips were not cheap UM, so the fewer components 0:24:44.080 --> 0:24:46.960 that you could use on the circuit board, the more 0:24:47.000 --> 0:24:48.560 money you could save. And doing that and make the 0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:52.119 project more cost efficient in the end, and uh, thanks 0:24:52.160 --> 0:24:55.200 to was they actually made it work. Of course. Uh, 0:24:55.240 --> 0:24:58.200 they're known for Breakout The two of them both worked 0:24:58.200 --> 0:25:03.040 on Breakout UM, which is a classic Autari game. UM. 0:25:03.080 --> 0:25:06.399 But yeah, I mean that that paid off both on 0:25:06.520 --> 0:25:09.159 that project and their work they did for Apple because 0:25:09.200 --> 0:25:12.119 they would continually revise the design to make it, to 0:25:12.160 --> 0:25:14.560 make it more cost efficient and make it more effective. 0:25:14.560 --> 0:25:16.320 Because what was is one of those people that believes 0:25:16.359 --> 0:25:23.119 that UM technology should be accessible to people. Um. I 0:25:23.200 --> 0:25:26.640 was gonna say, well, you might say, well, hey, Apple 0:25:26.720 --> 0:25:29.000 is known for having high priced computers. What are you 0:25:29.040 --> 0:25:32.560 talking to? High price computers and closed systems. Yes, two 0:25:32.600 --> 0:25:36.920 things that you would imagine would be antithetical to that philosophy. 0:25:37.040 --> 0:25:41.959 Well that's true, and uh, but I would argue that, Um, 0:25:42.040 --> 0:25:44.239 we need to take a look at the exit of 0:25:44.480 --> 0:25:48.080 Wozniak from Apple because, um, a lot of that did 0:25:48.080 --> 0:25:50.199 not surround the Apple to the Apple two was a 0:25:50.280 --> 0:25:52.560 very affordable machine, which is why it ended up in 0:25:52.600 --> 0:25:55.000 a lot of people's homes, in a lot of schools. Yeah, 0:25:55.040 --> 0:25:56.639 So in order to get there, we need to we 0:25:56.680 --> 0:25:59.960 need to to get back to like about nineteen eighties 0:26:00.000 --> 0:26:02.919 when Apple went public, and that was of course a 0:26:02.960 --> 0:26:05.720 big event. Chris and I will have more to say 0:26:05.720 --> 0:26:08.200 about the laws in just a moment, but first let's 0:26:08.200 --> 0:26:19.040 take a quick break. One was a huge year for 0:26:19.119 --> 0:26:24.679 Wazniak in both triumph and tragedy. Uhe he returned to 0:26:25.480 --> 0:26:28.679 UC Berkeley to finish out his degree in electrical engineering 0:26:28.680 --> 0:26:32.480 and computer science under an assumed name. I would also 0:26:32.560 --> 0:26:37.000 guess that he probably cruised through a lot of that. Probably, Yeah, 0:26:37.119 --> 0:26:39.840 the fact that the fact that there may have been 0:26:40.400 --> 0:26:44.639 courses that were referring to his own work might have 0:26:44.960 --> 0:26:48.200 might have done that. But also that year, he um, 0:26:48.760 --> 0:26:50.639 he was the act a man who has a lot 0:26:50.680 --> 0:26:55.119 of different interests in one of those was piloting airplanes, 0:26:55.520 --> 0:26:57.800 and he owned his own private airplane. At this point, 0:26:57.800 --> 0:27:01.119 because Apple very quickly was a huge success. You know, 0:27:01.160 --> 0:27:04.119 I launched in nineteen seventy six, and by one he 0:27:04.119 --> 0:27:06.439 had enough to have his own private plane. And he 0:27:06.520 --> 0:27:09.720 was piloting his private plane and crashed while trying to 0:27:09.760 --> 0:27:13.199 take off at the Santa Cruz SkyPark And it was 0:27:13.800 --> 0:27:17.800 pretty serious crash and he was very badly hurt in that. 0:27:18.560 --> 0:27:22.760 In that accident, I suffered from amnesia for quite some time. Yeah, yeah, 0:27:22.760 --> 0:27:25.119 I had a lot of different injuries, memory loss. It 0:27:25.160 --> 0:27:28.240 took about two years of rehabilitation for him to get 0:27:28.240 --> 0:27:33.200 back to how he was before the accident. But around 0:27:33.200 --> 0:27:36.720 that time, the Apple two was really starting to become 0:27:36.840 --> 0:27:41.359 a true success story, like a huge success story in 0:27:41.440 --> 0:27:46.199 personal computing. And uh and by three, so this is 0:27:46.240 --> 0:27:48.520 just a couple of years after Apple has gone public. 0:27:48.520 --> 0:27:51.320 Three years after Apple's gone public, it was valued the 0:27:51.359 --> 0:27:54.639 company was valued at nine hundred and eighty five million 0:27:54.760 --> 0:27:58.080 dollars if you looked at its stock, if you were 0:27:58.119 --> 0:27:59.840 to value the company by how much stock was out 0:27:59.840 --> 0:28:02.959 there and the price that stock was trading at, so 0:28:03.080 --> 0:28:06.399 just under a billion dollars. And again the company is 0:28:06.440 --> 0:28:10.440 not even ten years old yet. So you know, Wazniak's 0:28:10.480 --> 0:28:12.880 work was really starting to pay off for the company 0:28:12.920 --> 0:28:16.680 and for Wozniak at the time. Yep. He also uh 0:28:16.760 --> 0:28:18.800 in addition to this, while he was going through his 0:28:18.840 --> 0:28:22.240 recovery period, got involved in another one of his passions, 0:28:22.240 --> 0:28:29.880 which is music. Hosted the now infamous US festivals in California, 0:28:30.119 --> 0:28:34.600 UM which were both were which were known for being huge, 0:28:34.920 --> 0:28:38.080 I mean very very large events. Think of um things 0:28:38.160 --> 0:28:42.600 like um Um, you know Lollapalooza now or Lilith Fair. 0:28:42.640 --> 0:28:45.600 I mean kinds of events like that where they're I know, 0:28:45.640 --> 0:28:48.680 I am, but but I don't go to large outdoor 0:28:48.720 --> 0:28:53.720 events like that or the festive Well. Yeah, but they 0:28:53.720 --> 0:28:58.080 did have a diverse line of different kinds of Yes, 0:28:58.120 --> 0:29:01.000 actually they were. They were sort of incompetent Asian into 0:29:01.080 --> 0:29:03.840 some degree because Coachella had then had been out for 0:29:04.000 --> 0:29:09.080 many years, more than a decade out in California. UM, 0:29:09.120 --> 0:29:12.200 but they it was sort of a blend of technology 0:29:12.240 --> 0:29:14.400 and music, which makes me think more of south By 0:29:14.400 --> 0:29:18.280 Southwest now than than that. But at that time that's 0:29:18.320 --> 0:29:20.560 not the kind of events that we're going on. There 0:29:20.600 --> 0:29:25.320 were more I think inspired from the many years earlier 0:29:25.360 --> 0:29:27.720 Woodstock and events like that, where it was just the 0:29:28.040 --> 0:29:33.000 large outdoor music festivals, but they were also known for extravagance. Um. 0:29:33.080 --> 0:29:36.240 You know, there were some artists like uh van Halen 0:29:36.240 --> 0:29:39.200 and David Bowie who were taking home more than a 0:29:39.280 --> 0:29:43.040 million dollars in early eighty two and eighty three, the 0:29:43.040 --> 0:29:46.960 early eighties, I mean, um and, which were tremendous sums 0:29:46.960 --> 0:29:51.000 of money at that point. Um and and it's I 0:29:51.000 --> 0:29:53.120 think regarded by a lot of people now the US 0:29:53.160 --> 0:29:55.800 festivals sort of a a sort of a punch line 0:29:55.800 --> 0:29:58.640 to a joke, although I'm not sure what the setup 0:29:58.680 --> 0:30:02.160 would be uh um, but I don't know that it 0:30:02.200 --> 0:30:05.280 was completely unsuccessful. I just think that, uh, it was 0:30:05.320 --> 0:30:08.680 sort of a tribute to was his generosity and the 0:30:08.720 --> 0:30:12.600 fact that he paid people really uh, you know, generous 0:30:12.600 --> 0:30:14.840 sums of money. But I think he was just having 0:30:14.880 --> 0:30:16.880 a good time with a lot of people. Yeah. He 0:30:16.920 --> 0:30:21.840 also took this time to start getting into philanthropy. He 0:30:21.920 --> 0:30:26.320 began to really invest, specifically in the education system near 0:30:26.480 --> 0:30:30.560 his own home. He began to uh to help UH 0:30:30.760 --> 0:30:33.960 schools get computers and training on how to use the computers. 0:30:34.320 --> 0:30:38.680 He was very enthusiastic at fostering education, which is no 0:30:38.760 --> 0:30:41.480 surprise considering, you know, his father had helped him, and 0:30:41.760 --> 0:30:44.520 he does credit his you know, several teachers went in 0:30:44.560 --> 0:30:48.000 his elementary school days as really being the inspiration for 0:30:48.080 --> 0:30:51.400 him to pursue his interests. So it's not a big 0:30:51.400 --> 0:30:53.920 surprise that he wanted to to kind of pay it 0:30:53.960 --> 0:30:57.320 forward and and do that on himself. So he began 0:30:57.360 --> 0:31:01.240 to do that and Uh. In fact, his his contributions 0:31:01.280 --> 0:31:06.840 to technology and philanthropy led up to him receiving the award, 0:31:06.920 --> 0:31:11.200 the the National Medal of Technology in He was awarded 0:31:11.200 --> 0:31:13.680 that by the United States President, who at the time 0:31:13.760 --> 0:31:17.320 was Ronald Reagan and received that and it's the highest 0:31:17.400 --> 0:31:21.880 honor bestowed on America's inventors and innovators. Yes, the award 0:31:21.880 --> 0:31:25.520 has come up several times over the course of tech stuff. UM. 0:31:25.560 --> 0:31:27.360 You know, probably was it one of the people we 0:31:27.400 --> 0:31:30.840 would actually have heard of. Um they were losing. Jobs 0:31:30.840 --> 0:31:34.440 were sort of rock stars in the early eighties because 0:31:34.520 --> 0:31:38.480 of the the the prominence of the Apple two. UM. 0:31:39.080 --> 0:31:41.800 And you know, there were there were cover stories on magazines, 0:31:41.880 --> 0:31:47.480 business magazines, UH and UH and news magazines about these guys. 0:31:47.800 --> 0:31:49.560 They were they were sort of well known. Of course, 0:31:49.640 --> 0:31:53.080 Jobs is a little bit more outspoken. He's known as 0:31:53.120 --> 0:31:56.720 the UM you know, more of the the marketing face 0:31:56.920 --> 0:32:01.000 of the company, especially UM recently, but even back then 0:32:01.080 --> 0:32:03.680 in the in the early days of the company. UM 0:32:04.280 --> 0:32:07.160 as technology went on at Apple, though, as things started 0:32:07.160 --> 0:32:11.239 to change and they started focusing on, uh, diversifying the 0:32:11.280 --> 0:32:17.000 lines UM was, you know, was sort of not as 0:32:17.040 --> 0:32:21.240 integral to the the creation of machines like the Apple three, 0:32:21.560 --> 0:32:23.800 the Lisa, and the Macintosh like he had been with 0:32:23.840 --> 0:32:26.280 the Apple too. And I think that was partially due 0:32:26.600 --> 0:32:29.480 of course, to the to the accident and the need 0:32:29.560 --> 0:32:32.960 for his recovery. Just he just wasn't as um as 0:32:33.560 --> 0:32:38.040 UM available during that time as he would have done otherwise. Yeah, 0:32:38.120 --> 0:32:43.040 and then UM and by Ve big changes were happening 0:32:43.040 --> 0:32:46.760 at Apple. Uh. The biggest was that Steve Jobs left 0:32:46.800 --> 0:32:52.239 the company and that depending on how you define it, 0:32:52.520 --> 0:32:56.760 he was either fired because he was having some really 0:32:57.000 --> 0:33:01.840 nasty conflicts with the with Apple's board of directors, or 0:33:01.880 --> 0:33:03.920 he was just marginalized to the point where he just 0:33:04.040 --> 0:33:07.040 stopped showing up to work. UM. But really, I mean 0:33:07.480 --> 0:33:12.080 essentially they kept giving him a d a smaller role 0:33:13.040 --> 0:33:16.800 over time and distancing him Steve Jobs, that is, away 0:33:16.880 --> 0:33:20.320 from the main operations of Apple, and so Steve Jobs 0:33:20.360 --> 0:33:24.720 left in five Niac stuck around with Apple for a 0:33:24.720 --> 0:33:28.840 couple more years. He would not leave the company until Yes, 0:33:28.880 --> 0:33:31.440 and to some degree he still holds a consulting role 0:33:31.480 --> 0:33:36.800 with the company today. His and he left the company, 0:33:36.840 --> 0:33:40.959 but Apple still I guess it's safe to say they 0:33:41.080 --> 0:33:45.960 never completely severed their relationship, although he doesn't go into 0:33:46.040 --> 0:33:49.800 work there like he used to. Um. And he's and 0:33:49.800 --> 0:33:53.400 you wouldn't necessarily call him an Apple evangelist either. I 0:33:53.400 --> 0:33:58.280 mean he says in frequent interviews he will say or 0:33:58.360 --> 0:34:01.600 frequently interviews I should say, he will say he loves Apple. 0:34:01.920 --> 0:34:04.440 But at the same time, he is not shy to 0:34:04.560 --> 0:34:07.760 criticize Apple for things that he views as as uh 0:34:09.000 --> 0:34:13.319 as a as as failures or as mistakes. He is 0:34:14.160 --> 0:34:17.440 very He's known for being very honest and very upfront 0:34:17.880 --> 0:34:20.719 and just uh, you know, giving his opinion. He's a 0:34:20.719 --> 0:34:23.200 straight shooter when it comes to that, and not in 0:34:23.320 --> 0:34:30.359 necessarily a mean way, but very matter of fact. Um yeah, 0:34:30.560 --> 0:34:33.359 actually uh. When he started to work on some other 0:34:33.360 --> 0:34:36.000 projects that one of the first was cl nine. This 0:34:36.160 --> 0:34:39.880 is a company that was known for creating the first 0:34:40.040 --> 0:34:44.120 programmable universal remote YEP. And so this again shows that 0:34:44.280 --> 0:34:48.000 wozniak interest in electronics was still very, very high. He 0:34:48.120 --> 0:34:50.640 just I think wosnia X one of those guys who 0:34:50.680 --> 0:34:54.400 really likes to find a new challenge, and you know, 0:34:54.440 --> 0:34:57.879 once he's done that, once he's managed to to accomplish 0:34:57.960 --> 0:35:00.640 whatever that challenges, then he ready to move on to 0:35:00.719 --> 0:35:05.200 the next one. In fact, again from listening to him talk, 0:35:05.360 --> 0:35:07.440 I would say that that's just one of those things 0:35:07.480 --> 0:35:11.440 he really values, is the idea of innovation, research and development, 0:35:11.920 --> 0:35:18.040 building new stuff and not just making constant improvements over 0:35:18.719 --> 0:35:20.880 older technology. In fact, that might have been one of 0:35:20.880 --> 0:35:23.200 the reasons why he left Apple, was that he was 0:35:23.239 --> 0:35:26.400 starting to see Apple turned into this company that was 0:35:26.480 --> 0:35:33.439 more interested in releasing incremental updates to its technology rather 0:35:33.480 --> 0:35:37.160 than truly innovating and building something that's really cool. And 0:35:37.160 --> 0:35:39.200 in fact, that's a that's a criticism that he has 0:35:39.320 --> 0:35:43.240 leveled recently at Apple over the last few years, saying 0:35:43.280 --> 0:35:48.440 that Apple seems to be content to release new versions 0:35:48.560 --> 0:35:51.880 of truly innovative and amazing products. You know, he loves 0:35:51.920 --> 0:35:53.920 things like the iPad and the iPhone and all that. 0:35:54.000 --> 0:35:57.160 He thinks those are great, But why he doesn't think 0:35:57.239 --> 0:36:00.279 is great is that Apple seems to be content to 0:36:00.400 --> 0:36:03.759 just give updates to those products rather than try and 0:36:03.880 --> 0:36:08.560 create something wholly new. Now that may not be completely fair. 0:36:08.600 --> 0:36:12.279 There may be some things developing an Apple about which 0:36:12.320 --> 0:36:15.640 we know nothing that could blow our minds any day now, 0:36:16.239 --> 0:36:18.839 like the Apple TV that we keep on hoping will 0:36:18.920 --> 0:36:22.840 come out. But you know that that the perception that 0:36:22.880 --> 0:36:27.359 Wozniak has is that, uh, Apple's not currently really in 0:36:27.400 --> 0:36:30.760 that innovative space. In fact, recently he said that Microsoft 0:36:30.880 --> 0:36:33.560 was showing more of that sort of innovative approach. Doesn't 0:36:33.600 --> 0:36:35.799 necessarily mean it's going to be a success for Microsoft, 0:36:35.840 --> 0:36:38.719 but he was saying that you know, Windows eight, Windows Phone, Ate, 0:36:38.760 --> 0:36:41.560 the surface tablet, all of that was kind of pointing 0:36:41.680 --> 0:36:44.040 there was such a radical departure from the stuff that 0:36:44.080 --> 0:36:46.239 Microsoft had been doing that it was a much more 0:36:46.280 --> 0:36:51.280 innovative approach than what Apple was currently doing. Right well, um, 0:36:51.320 --> 0:36:53.600 you know he uh he ended up butting heads with 0:36:53.680 --> 0:36:56.400 c L nine with Apple. Um. He was trying to 0:36:56.440 --> 0:37:02.080 contract the design firm Frog Design, uh to get the 0:37:02.440 --> 0:37:06.400 product designed for him, and Apple had brought Frog Design 0:37:06.800 --> 0:37:09.880 to California with the idea that they were going to 0:37:09.960 --> 0:37:13.880 be their designers, their product designers, and Apple said no, 0:37:15.120 --> 0:37:16.919 you cannot do that. That was part of their their 0:37:17.040 --> 0:37:21.000 U their UM contract with them. UM. But yeah, he 0:37:21.400 --> 0:37:24.200 very much, uh you know, had an idea because he 0:37:24.239 --> 0:37:27.200 knew that these guys were innovators in the way things 0:37:27.239 --> 0:37:30.120 looked and felt. UM. So it doesn't surprise me much 0:37:30.160 --> 0:37:33.920 that that was likes um the kinds of products that 0:37:33.960 --> 0:37:37.080 Apple comes out with. But uh, you know, they had 0:37:37.080 --> 0:37:40.520 a similar design sense. But Apple did not appreciate that 0:37:40.640 --> 0:37:44.640 at the time. UM. Oh and uh, we didn't mention, 0:37:45.080 --> 0:37:50.280 but well, it's probably looking at the timeline here, UM 0:37:50.680 --> 0:37:52.920 probably should mention some of the other things that he 0:37:53.480 --> 0:37:55.600 got into over the years. Of course, he's been a 0:37:56.440 --> 0:38:00.680 speaker UM for many, many years now, including dating back 0:38:00.719 --> 0:38:05.200 to that that time he was sort of a coveted 0:38:05.239 --> 0:38:10.440 personality for m keynotes and different kinds of addresses. Uh 0:38:10.520 --> 0:38:13.279 and uh. He started several companies. See all nine was 0:38:13.320 --> 0:38:15.680 just one of them. Wheels of Zeus was one of 0:38:15.680 --> 0:38:19.440 my favorites. Yes, the acronym Wheels of Zeus is laws 0:38:20.440 --> 0:38:23.919 in in two thousand one, and that was back uh 0:38:23.960 --> 0:38:26.880 in the early days of trying to come up with 0:38:27.040 --> 0:38:30.200 uses for GPS. Yeah. The idea being that if you 0:38:30.200 --> 0:38:33.799 can have a wireless GPS UH network, then you would 0:38:33.800 --> 0:38:38.040 be able to locate stuff. Really, that was one of 0:38:38.080 --> 0:38:40.120 his ideas. He said he wanted to help people be 0:38:40.200 --> 0:38:44.880 able to locate things. Yes, all right, that was you 0:38:44.960 --> 0:38:48.640 know so, yeah, and was or as in Wheels of Zeus, 0:38:48.640 --> 0:38:52.319 not Wazniac, but Wheels of Zeus lasted for about five 0:38:52.400 --> 0:38:55.400 years that it closed up in two thousand six. Ye 0:38:55.920 --> 0:39:03.200 also and uh he in uh going back a bit. No, No, 0:39:03.239 --> 0:39:05.200 it's fine. I just wanted to mention, you know, being 0:39:05.200 --> 0:39:08.600 a co founder of the Electronic Frontier Foundation. I mean 0:39:08.640 --> 0:39:11.839 this is huge. The Electronic Frontier Foundation or e f F, 0:39:12.120 --> 0:39:15.239 is an organization that advocates for openness and freedom on 0:39:15.320 --> 0:39:18.439 the internet in the computer world. They are also known 0:39:18.560 --> 0:39:23.360 for doing things like helping provide legal assistance to hackers 0:39:23.400 --> 0:39:28.040 that are being pursued by by government officials or or 0:39:28.080 --> 0:39:31.319 you know, by law enforcement. They're known for helping out 0:39:32.520 --> 0:39:36.120 folks who might otherwise be seen as troublemakers. Um, but 0:39:36.239 --> 0:39:41.919 it's really all about promoting the freedom of information and 0:39:42.000 --> 0:39:46.319 the trying to keep as as much of the uh 0:39:46.960 --> 0:39:53.200 the manipulation or or or um, the just just trying 0:39:53.200 --> 0:39:57.040 to keep the government out of controlling technology in all 0:39:57.080 --> 0:39:59.960 its forms. Mainly it tends over the last several year, 0:40:00.080 --> 0:40:02.160 it tends to mostly be about the Internet, but it's 0:40:02.680 --> 0:40:05.960 it goes beyond that. Yeah. Yeah, and then they are 0:40:06.080 --> 0:40:11.080 very interested in uh, you know, privacy issues issues. Uh, 0:40:11.640 --> 0:40:14.279 not to uh, not to protect what you might call 0:40:14.360 --> 0:40:19.160 black hat hackers, um, but more to give people the 0:40:19.160 --> 0:40:24.919 opportunity to uh control their technology lives a little bit 0:40:24.960 --> 0:40:27.879 more openly and and do more with it rather than 0:40:27.920 --> 0:40:31.839 having that spoken for for them. Yeah. Wozniak has has 0:40:31.920 --> 0:40:37.440 really come across as someone who who wants the individual 0:40:37.600 --> 0:40:40.200 to have as much control and say in that sort 0:40:40.200 --> 0:40:44.600 of thing, and less of that should go to things 0:40:44.600 --> 0:40:48.719 like corporations and governments. So uh, you know this, it's 0:40:48.800 --> 0:40:52.040 obvious why he would want to co found that organization 0:40:52.080 --> 0:40:54.600 like BFF. And in two thousand he was inducted into 0:40:54.640 --> 0:40:57.800 the Inventor's Hall of Fame and also receive the Hinz 0:40:57.800 --> 0:41:00.959 Award for Technology, the Economy and employe. Yes, I wanted 0:41:01.000 --> 0:41:03.600 to mention the Hines Award, So I'm glad you did that. 0:41:03.800 --> 0:41:08.160 And it's not the Hines Stefenschmertz Award. Curse you bury 0:41:08.239 --> 0:41:12.160 the Platypaus We've got a little bit further to go 0:41:12.320 --> 0:41:15.560 with Chris Polette's final episode as a co host of 0:41:15.640 --> 0:41:18.440 Tech Stuff. But before we get to that sad moment, 0:41:18.560 --> 0:41:29.200 let's take another quick break. This is a period, um 0:41:29.320 --> 0:41:32.479 the early two thousand's where we kind of didn't hear 0:41:32.520 --> 0:41:34.879 a lot from him. I mean, he's not the kind 0:41:34.880 --> 0:41:37.800 of person that that, um, you read about in the 0:41:37.880 --> 0:41:42.960 society pages so much. Although until the late two thousands, well, 0:41:43.000 --> 0:41:45.640 you know, making appearances on shows like Kathy Griffin in 0:41:45.680 --> 0:41:47.720 My Life on the d List. Yeah, he was dating 0:41:47.719 --> 0:41:50.640 her at the time. Yes, yes, Um. He's also been 0:41:50.719 --> 0:41:55.080 on The Big Bang Theory and of course Dancing with 0:41:55.160 --> 0:41:59.839 the Stars cutting a rug on a segue, yes, yes 0:42:00.080 --> 0:42:04.640 he uh he showed. I watched some of that, and 0:42:04.680 --> 0:42:07.239 I have to admit he showed a tremendous sense of 0:42:07.320 --> 0:42:11.759 humor about being on that show. Um. And uh he's 0:42:12.360 --> 0:42:17.320 as a dancer, he is a really incredible programmer. Nice. 0:42:17.840 --> 0:42:21.319 Um an excellent compliment and uh, I am neither. So 0:42:21.440 --> 0:42:23.600 I really can't talk, but I will. I will say 0:42:23.600 --> 0:42:27.120 that that, but I think he would probably agree. Um 0:42:27.200 --> 0:42:30.560 yeah he um, uh, yeah, he seemed to really kind 0:42:30.560 --> 0:42:34.160 of have fun with his own you know, public persona, 0:42:34.400 --> 0:42:38.000 although he's not you know, he's not like a celebrity 0:42:38.040 --> 0:42:41.400 in the sense of jumping out and trying to attract attention. 0:42:41.440 --> 0:42:43.759 That doesn't seem to really be his his style. He's 0:42:43.800 --> 0:42:47.640 even been known, like on on launch days for Apple 0:42:47.680 --> 0:42:50.439 products to go and wait in line at an Apple store. 0:42:50.680 --> 0:42:55.360 There was one story where, uh he I remember it 0:42:55.400 --> 0:42:57.760 was one of the early iPhones, I want to say, 0:42:58.040 --> 0:43:01.400 where he was walking to the Apple store to go 0:43:01.440 --> 0:43:04.000 get in line, and then he got ushered into the 0:43:04.040 --> 0:43:07.560 front of the line, and he actually felt badly about 0:43:07.600 --> 0:43:10.200 it because he was like, you know, he didn't feel 0:43:10.200 --> 0:43:12.520 that he should necessarily be treated any differently than any 0:43:12.520 --> 0:43:16.279 other customer. Um. And but a lot of people who 0:43:16.280 --> 0:43:18.399 were in line are like, dude, that's woznia. He could 0:43:18.440 --> 0:43:22.880 totally go in It's okay, Yeah I would. I would 0:43:22.880 --> 0:43:25.960 imagine that that he has enough of a following where 0:43:26.239 --> 0:43:28.239 you know, there there would be a certain amount of 0:43:28.239 --> 0:43:32.799 tolerance among the other shoppers that day. Um. He's also known, 0:43:32.920 --> 0:43:38.879 of course, over over time to be a rather uh 0:43:39.080 --> 0:43:43.120 playful prankster of sorts. He's famed, of course for many 0:43:43.160 --> 0:43:47.160 different stunts with two dollar bills. Um. I have actually 0:43:47.960 --> 0:43:51.240 tried to pass two dollar bills, which are completely legal, 0:43:51.680 --> 0:43:54.160 and they have people confused by them because you don't 0:43:54.200 --> 0:43:56.600 see them all the time, which of course lends itself 0:43:56.680 --> 0:43:59.640 to was a sort of sense of humor. Now you 0:43:59.640 --> 0:44:02.799 can buy, as he will point out, complete sheets of 0:44:02.920 --> 0:44:05.200 one dollar, two dollar, and five dollar bills from the 0:44:05.239 --> 0:44:07.560 Bureau of Engraving and Printing. You can get a sheet 0:44:07.640 --> 0:44:11.920 of an uncut sheet of bills. They're completely legal, they 0:44:11.920 --> 0:44:15.000 just haven't been cut apart. In fact, they're perforated. So 0:44:15.080 --> 0:44:18.680 he has been known to buy sheets of these, you know, 0:44:19.160 --> 0:44:22.839 separate them and have them laminated into a pad, and 0:44:22.880 --> 0:44:25.680 go in and buy stuff and peel off a series 0:44:25.680 --> 0:44:28.960 of two dollar bills, which are of course are numbered sequentially. 0:44:29.400 --> 0:44:32.440 It's very weird. Two dollar bills are weird to begin with, 0:44:33.360 --> 0:44:35.600 and then you add that it looks like this guy 0:44:35.680 --> 0:44:38.279 just peeled off money and handed it to me, am 0:44:38.280 --> 0:44:41.840 I supposed to take it. Apparently he's been to Vegas 0:44:42.080 --> 0:44:46.160 and tried to stunt and had security people come and 0:44:46.840 --> 0:44:51.760 uh talked to him about exactly what's going I've encountered 0:44:51.840 --> 0:44:55.359 Vegas security. I know exactly what you're talking about. And 0:44:55.440 --> 0:44:59.600 of course if it were me, I would be sweating 0:45:00.160 --> 0:45:04.640 like about it. He keeps doing. Really, I didn't know 0:45:04.760 --> 0:45:08.680 that that the government doesn't, you know, make these perforated 0:45:08.680 --> 0:45:13.120 bills available. Really, I bought these from some guy. What 0:45:13.120 --> 0:45:15.160 what's great is that I wouldn't have had the nerve. 0:45:15.239 --> 0:45:17.240 I should also point out that while two dollar bills 0:45:17.280 --> 0:45:20.480 are unusual here in the United States, in other places 0:45:20.520 --> 0:45:26.520 there are two dollar coins. So for our friends in Canadia, yes, 0:45:26.560 --> 0:45:30.120 and our friends in Canadia, your twnis are very adorable, 0:45:30.320 --> 0:45:34.000 like I actually do like tunis. I like Looney's and tunis. Yes, 0:45:34.040 --> 0:45:36.520 I agree. If you would like to send me Looney's 0:45:36.520 --> 0:45:39.200 and twnis, do so at the house Stuff Works address, 0:45:39.239 --> 0:45:43.919 Carroll Jonathan Strickland. Kids, go check your parents. No, never mind, 0:45:45.160 --> 0:45:48.359 um but uh but but yeah, what you were talking 0:45:48.400 --> 0:45:53.000 about about innovation and openness and technology. He has recently, 0:45:53.120 --> 0:45:57.160 as of the time we're recording this, in late Ben 0:45:57.360 --> 0:46:01.600 photographed in front of the large uh different versions of 0:46:01.680 --> 0:46:05.759 Google androids. We have Android people, and people go, it's 0:46:05.800 --> 0:46:09.800 the Apple co founder in front of the Android androids. Well, yeah, 0:46:09.840 --> 0:46:13.960 because he tries pretty much everything. Yeah, he's just a 0:46:14.000 --> 0:46:17.040 computer omnivore. He actually says that he will, you know, 0:46:17.120 --> 0:46:19.880 he loves he loves technology, and he loves Gadgy doesn't 0:46:19.960 --> 0:46:22.360 doesn't necessarily love what corporations are doing or what governments 0:46:22.360 --> 0:46:26.960 are doing, but he loves the technology. And he specifically, 0:46:27.719 --> 0:46:29.880 I had an hour and a half of sleep last night, folks, 0:46:29.880 --> 0:46:33.800 I would and watch the Hobbit anyway. So he specifically 0:46:34.840 --> 0:46:39.319 really likes uh platforms that are are that allow you 0:46:39.360 --> 0:46:43.280 to do lots of stuff right, So the Android platform 0:46:43.600 --> 0:46:46.000 gives a lot of flexibility to users. It's something that 0:46:46.040 --> 0:46:49.680 can be overwhelming to someone who's not necessarily an enthusiast, 0:46:49.960 --> 0:46:52.840 but for someone who really likes hacking and getting their 0:46:52.920 --> 0:46:57.839 their hands dirty with technology, the Android platform is very 0:46:57.880 --> 0:47:01.400 attractive because it's you can make a lot of changes yourself, 0:47:01.520 --> 0:47:06.160 you know, and and Google facilitates that. Depending on which 0:47:06.440 --> 0:47:09.800 handset manufacturer and which carrier you're with, it may or 0:47:09.840 --> 0:47:13.440 may not be very easy to do. But he also 0:47:13.520 --> 0:47:16.720 says he likes to try everything because he doesn't want 0:47:16.760 --> 0:47:22.960 to form a a prejudice against any particular platform without 0:47:23.000 --> 0:47:26.080 giving it a real fair shot. And so he goes 0:47:26.120 --> 0:47:28.080 out when a new phone comes out, he'll go out 0:47:28.080 --> 0:47:31.439 and buy it. So often like, I've seen pictures of 0:47:31.640 --> 0:47:34.719 what Wozniak was carrying on a given day, and it's 0:47:34.800 --> 0:47:38.640 usually something like five or six smartphones and then maybe 0:47:38.680 --> 0:47:42.840 a tablet and then maybe two computers. It's like, you figure, 0:47:42.880 --> 0:47:46.879 it's got to be around fifty pounds of technology at least. Yeah. 0:47:47.000 --> 0:47:50.600 It It kind of reminds me of the nineties version 0:47:50.640 --> 0:47:54.480 of Dilbert where he used to have the gadget utility belt. Um, 0:47:54.760 --> 0:47:58.200 you actually knew some people like that? Um yeah, yeah, 0:47:58.400 --> 0:48:00.720 I used to try and do that them. My pants 0:48:00.760 --> 0:48:03.600 kept falling down, dude, looking like a fool with the 0:48:03.680 --> 0:48:07.000 pants on the ground. I was, in fact. Yeah. So 0:48:07.600 --> 0:48:12.120 currently he's working at a food Fusion Io or Fusion 0:48:12.160 --> 0:48:18.200 EO Fusion HEO was Fusion dash Io as a chief 0:48:18.239 --> 0:48:21.360 scientist and that's the company is a data storage and 0:48:21.480 --> 0:48:25.640 server company. So he's he's currently that's you know, his 0:48:25.719 --> 0:48:28.279 technical job title at the moment. But he does do 0:48:28.320 --> 0:48:31.680 a lot of speaking events and you know, you'll still 0:48:31.719 --> 0:48:35.600 see him at things like a TED conferences and other 0:48:35.680 --> 0:48:38.760 big events where you know, they need to have someone 0:48:38.840 --> 0:48:41.759 there who who really knows the ins and outs of technology, 0:48:41.760 --> 0:48:47.600 who is truly an advocate for technology, for the consumer 0:48:48.160 --> 0:48:51.520 and who just you know, he's just very passionate and 0:48:51.719 --> 0:48:55.279 loves to share that with other people. That's it's a 0:48:55.360 --> 0:48:57.960 great couple of qualities to have, Like, there are a 0:48:58.000 --> 0:48:59.799 lot of people who are really passionate about what they do, 0:49:00.160 --> 0:49:04.600 but they don't necessarily communicate that or share that with people. 0:49:04.640 --> 0:49:06.959 But wasn't he acts he's like, you know, you would 0:49:06.960 --> 0:49:09.799 have to tie him down for him not to to 0:49:09.800 --> 0:49:13.640 to be a brilliant over his love of tech. Yeah, 0:49:13.719 --> 0:49:17.440 it's uh, from from just about all accounts I've read 0:49:17.640 --> 0:49:20.480 about about Steve Wozniak, He's he's not the kind of 0:49:20.520 --> 0:49:25.960 person who who hides his emotions very well. He's, uh, 0:49:26.000 --> 0:49:28.680 he's excited about a lot of stuff, and when he is, 0:49:29.200 --> 0:49:33.040 he you know, he shares that with you. Um, I 0:49:33.360 --> 0:49:36.359 should say that he doesn't hide his his excitement for 0:49:36.440 --> 0:49:41.000 technology very well because he's, uh, he's really gregarious when 0:49:41.000 --> 0:49:43.080 it comes to that. He may not be necessarily outspoken 0:49:43.080 --> 0:49:46.480 about his personal life as much or or want to 0:49:46.560 --> 0:49:49.560 jump into the spotlight. But if you ran into him 0:49:49.560 --> 0:49:52.319 and he had fifteen minutes to talk about some kind 0:49:52.320 --> 0:49:54.960 of technology with you, I don't think it would be 0:49:55.200 --> 0:49:57.799 much of a stretch. Based on Again, I've never met him, 0:49:57.840 --> 0:50:00.319 but uh, if he wanted to stry a cup of 0:50:00.320 --> 0:50:03.279 conversation with him about virtually any kind of technology, I 0:50:03.320 --> 0:50:06.120 don't think he would turn you down, or if he did, 0:50:06.120 --> 0:50:09.319 he would do it politely. Well, it seems like just 0:50:09.400 --> 0:50:11.320 a just a great guy. He does he does. I 0:50:11.320 --> 0:50:13.279 would be very interested to talk with him, except I 0:50:13.280 --> 0:50:15.680 would be intimidated that he had discovered that I'm a 0:50:15.840 --> 0:50:18.879 complete idiot within like two minutes of chatting with me. Well, 0:50:18.920 --> 0:50:20.879 I mean, it doesn't take the rest of us that long. 0:50:21.520 --> 0:50:23.799 You know. Maybe I'm hoping that he would just have 0:50:23.880 --> 0:50:28.440 a lot of optimism. And that wraps up this classic 0:50:28.560 --> 0:50:32.000 episode of text Stuff once again. I want to thank 0:50:32.080 --> 0:50:34.359 Chris Polette for the amazing work he did. I mean, 0:50:34.760 --> 0:50:37.880 you know, we're six years past, almost seven years past 0:50:37.960 --> 0:50:42.279 when this happened, and uh, he's still very much a 0:50:42.320 --> 0:50:46.280 part of tech Stuff's culture. The puns, I would argue, 0:50:46.600 --> 0:50:50.240 are Chris Polette's contribution to this show. I love puns, 0:50:50.680 --> 0:50:52.560 but I wasn't really known for making them in the 0:50:52.640 --> 0:50:56.560 show quite like Chris was. I hope you guys enjoyed it. 0:50:56.600 --> 0:50:59.960 If you have any suggestions for future episodes, of tech Stuff. 0:51:00.280 --> 0:51:03.000 Please reach out and let me know The email addresses 0:51:03.040 --> 0:51:05.520 tech stuff at how stuff works dot com, where you 0:51:05.520 --> 0:51:07.399 can drop a line on Facebook or Twitter. The handle 0:51:07.440 --> 0:51:09.960 of both of those is tech Stuff hs W. Go 0:51:10.120 --> 0:51:13.600 to our website that's tech stuff podcast dot com. You 0:51:13.640 --> 0:51:16.600 will find a link to the archive of every episode 0:51:16.640 --> 0:51:19.440 we've ever published. You will also find a link to 0:51:19.440 --> 0:51:21.880 our online store, where every purchase you make goes to 0:51:21.880 --> 0:51:24.680 out the show and we greatly appreciate it, and I'll 0:51:24.680 --> 0:51:31.960 talk to you again really soon. Text Stuff is a 0:51:31.960 --> 0:51:34.719 production of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more 0:51:34.800 --> 0:51:38.160 podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, 0:51:38.320 --> 0:51:41.480 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.