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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Charlie Kirk dead at thirty

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Speaker 1: one tonight, the massive manhunt for the assassin who guns

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Speaker 1: down a father of two, two botched arrests so far.

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk has been shot at Utah University.

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Speaker 3: All witnesses are reporting that all they heard was a

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Speaker 3: single shot that was fired.

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Speaker 2: He's a young man, He's thirty two years old. Charlie

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Speaker 2: Kirk was shot at a rally.

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Speaker 4: Dear Lord in Heaven.

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Speaker 1: Kirk targeted, we believe because of his beliefs, gunned down

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Speaker 1: by a sniper, a sharpshooter, an assassin surrounded by teens

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Speaker 1: and college students.

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Speaker 4: Why and who? Thank you for being with us?

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Speaker 1: In the wake, the assassin leaves behind a grieving widow,

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Speaker 1: his wife, and two little children who will grow up

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Speaker 1: without daddy.

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Speaker 4: Why? Why? Because you disagree with what he says. You

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Speaker 4: don't have to agree with what he says. This is America.

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Speaker 1: Nobody agrees with anything anybody says. Yet he got the

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Speaker 1: death penalty because you disagree. You know what Kirk would

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Speaker 1: say to people? Hey, all of you out there that

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Speaker 1: disagree with me. I want you at the front of

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Speaker 1: the line because I'm going to try to convince you you're wrong.

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Speaker 4: I don't want you to quiet yourselves. I want you

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Speaker 4: at the front of the line. I want to hear

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Speaker 4: what you have to say. But no to you. The assassin,

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Speaker 4: he had to die again.

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Speaker 1: I Nancy Grayson is his crime stories. I want to

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us on this very very

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Speaker 1: dark night.

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Speaker 4: Listen, do you know how many transgender Americans have masshooters

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Speaker 4: over the last ten years?

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Speaker 3: Too many?

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Speaker 1: Fine?

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Speaker 4: Okay, now By's long right. I'm gonna give you any

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Speaker 4: of his credit.

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Speaker 5: Do you know how many masshooters there have been in

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Speaker 5: America over the last ten years?

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Speaker 4: Accounting or not?

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Speaker 3: Comic gang violence.

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Speaker 2: Chaos on the Utah Valley University campus has thousands of

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Speaker 2: students and locals run from Kirk's booth screaming. Kirk's security

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Speaker 2: team rushes into action, putting pressure on Kirk's wound and

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Speaker 2: escorting him to awaiting suv to take him to the hospital.

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Speaker 1: You saw originally is from at Beanie Johnson on X

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Speaker 1: and you can hear it's not Kirk asking about how

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Speaker 1: many transgender Americans have been mass shooters over the last

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Speaker 1: ten years. It's a student asking that question. You don't

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Speaker 1: have to agree with the student. You may violently disagree

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Speaker 1: with the student. Kirk was taken out and we will

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Speaker 1: find the shooter and he will face the death penalty,

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Speaker 1: mark my words. In the last hours, law enforcement has

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Speaker 1: released a facial shot of the perp. I want you

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Speaker 1: to look at it. We can learn a lot. There

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Speaker 1: he is walking. We've also got a shot more head on,

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Speaker 1: but look there, you go much much better.

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Speaker 4: That is him going up the stairwell.

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Speaker 1: He is wearing jeans, a baseball cat black in collar.

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Speaker 1: He's wearing tennis shoes and we know he's left behind

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Speaker 1: a foot impression. By the time we see him, he

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Speaker 1: looks as if he is clad all in black.

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Speaker 4: Maid.

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Speaker 1: This is him making his way up the steps. What

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Speaker 1: can we learn? We already knew that it was released.

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Speaker 1: He was college age. Here he is clean shaven, college

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Speaker 1: age man. Do you really think your sunglasses are going

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Speaker 1: to trick l e, the fads, the locals, the works,

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Speaker 1: good luck and a couple of days they're going to

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Speaker 1: know where you bought those sunglasses and what you signed

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Speaker 1: on the credit card slip what can.

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Speaker 4: We learn about this guy?

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Speaker 1: White, male, college age, slight in build.

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Speaker 4: Joining me right now.

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Speaker 1: Forensics expert and Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Joseph

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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, Joe.

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Speaker 4: Scott, I can glean a lot. Let's see the picture again.

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Speaker 4: I want everybody to see this. There is currently a

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Speaker 4: one hundred.

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Speaker 1: Thousand dollars reward on this guy. This guy, Okay, Joe Scott.

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Speaker 1: It looks like he drove away from mommy and Daddy's

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Speaker 1: house in the suburbs and he decided to shoot somebody dead.

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Speaker 1: Does he actually have his wallet in his front right pocket?

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Speaker 1: I see a mark on his jeans that tells me

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Speaker 1: that's how he usually carries it. In a moment, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to figure out what kind of tennishoes he's wearing.

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Speaker 1: But you see the American fly with a gun on it.

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Speaker 1: I'm learning so much right now. Okay, what do you see,

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott?

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Speaker 3: Well, I see that he has unngloved hands, Nancy, and

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Speaker 3: it looks like in the other shot, it looks like

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Speaker 3: he may be making an effort to grab hold of

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Speaker 3: that rail. Guess what if you do that.

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Speaker 4: With his forearm? Though? Look, look well, well, yeah, but.

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Speaker 3: How do we know How do we know that he

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Speaker 3: didn't touch any of the surfaces along the way Lacart's principle,

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Speaker 3: every contact leaves a trace. You cannot be this perfect,

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Speaker 3: all right, So up there, there's going to be information

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Speaker 3: that will tie him back. I think biological information. We

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Speaker 3: already have evidence that there may in fact have been

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Speaker 3: a palm print left behind. You had mentioned a footprint.

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Speaker 3: And also if the reports are true and we're hearing

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Speaker 3: about this weapon that may have been recovered, this is

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Speaker 3: going to be a specific tie back to him, Nancy,

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Speaker 3: just based upon the process of purchasing one serial number

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Speaker 3: that's on here, any kind of add ons that may

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Speaker 3: be found on this weapon, I'm thinking, like scopes and

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Speaker 3: oh boy, the ammunition we've got from what they are saying,

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Speaker 3: we have a spent round that's still chambered. Because this

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Speaker 3: weapon is a bolt action, that means you have to

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Speaker 3: actuate the bolt itself, lift it up, pull it back,

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Speaker 3: that ejects it. This is not a semi automatic weapon,

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Speaker 3: and then you force another round. In Nancy, he never

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Speaker 3: ejected the round, according to what FBI sources are saying.

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Speaker 3: And there are still three other live rounds in the

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Speaker 3: internal magazine of this weapon, and all of them are

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Speaker 3: going to have little bits that are going to be

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Speaker 3: offered up relative to connectivity back to this potent, this

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Speaker 3: person potentially.

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Speaker 1: Straight out to Dave Mack joining us investigated reporter crime

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Speaker 1: stories on the case from the very moment it happened.

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Speaker 1: Dave matt what happened.

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Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk is on campus Nancy to do one of

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Speaker 2: his events where he speaks to students and talks about

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Speaker 2: all things.

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Speaker 4: I mean, everything's on the table.

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Speaker 2: And in the moments before you right before you see

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Speaker 2: him in the ten there, right before that, he was

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Speaker 2: actually throwing hats to the crowd. You got about three

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Speaker 2: thousand people there. He's throwing hats and talking to people.

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Speaker 2: And before he actually was going to give his speech,

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Speaker 2: he actually opened up microphones for young people to come

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Speaker 2: to the front and start and ask questions.

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Speaker 4: It was kind of a warm up.

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Speaker 2: And he was in the about a minute minute fifteen

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Speaker 2: seconds into actually sitting where he's right there when the

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Speaker 2: shot hit And because everybody's got a phone, this was

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Speaker 2: immediately uploaded now and see people from everywhere could see

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Speaker 2: there was a shot that hit him in the neck.

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Speaker 2: Now you see everybody scrambling at first. Well that didn't

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Speaker 2: last but for a minute, because people realize, wait a minute,

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Speaker 2: I only heard one shot and then everything claim.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the way you got to me drinking from the

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Speaker 4: higher fire hygien. It's too much, too fast.

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Speaker 1: I want to take every single fact as it happens.

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Speaker 1: Joining me and all Star Pound makes sense of what

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Speaker 1: we know right now. The massive manhunt is on after

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Speaker 1: two botched FBI arrests. Hold on, you know what, I

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Speaker 1: want to clarify that I wouldn't call them botched. I

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Speaker 1: would not call them botched.

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Speaker 4: Joining me.

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Speaker 1: Katherine Schweit, creator of the FBI's Active Shooter Program, former

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Speaker 1: Chicago prosecutor, career GBI special agent, author Stop the Killing,

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Speaker 1: How to End the mass shooting Crisis, and more.

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Speaker 4: Catherine.

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Speaker 1: People are saying botched FBI ras that's not correct. They

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Speaker 1: arrested persons of interest, they questioned them, and upon questioning them,

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Speaker 1: they release them. What does everybody want them to do?

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Speaker 1: Not take the persons of interest into custody?

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Speaker 4: I mean that there, it was not botched.

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Speaker 6: I agree with you. I mean I don't think that's

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Speaker 6: the right word. We want to be proceed with the

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Speaker 6: best and most cautious way that we can. We want

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Speaker 6: law enforcement to not let one person walk away from

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Speaker 6: that area until we are confident that person is not

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Speaker 6: the triggerman. It's very important that you take the time

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Speaker 6: to go through somebody's background, spend the time with them,

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Speaker 6: put them under a little pressure, see whether or not

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Speaker 6: this is the person that you need to keep.

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Speaker 1: On listen, give me you by the sounds fan report

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Speaker 1: as one and it is though that was not our

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Speaker 1: knowing where the shooter went and as the.

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Speaker 6: Advice giving you and orm has had an ask your

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Speaker 6: shooter at as Charlie Kirk event.

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Speaker 7: We're getting several calls. We're trying to get more information,

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Speaker 7: so I'm not sure yet.

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Speaker 8: We're just trying to get seeing.

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Speaker 4: This that way.

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Speaker 1: What you were hearing is the police scanner immediately after

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Speaker 1: the shooting, and what we are doing tonight is picking

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Speaker 1: through the clues left behind and trying to determine.

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Speaker 4: What we know happened.

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Speaker 1: You know, I want to go back to Dave mac

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Speaker 1: these two botched, as it's being said arrests. I agree

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Speaker 1: with Catherine Schweid to creator FBI Active Shooter program. They

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Speaker 1: were not bossed, explain exactly what happened, Dave.

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Speaker 2: As this was an evolving story. Right off the bat.

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Speaker 2: Police actually had a man about in his mid fifties,

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Speaker 2: looks like bald head, wearing glasses, blue short pants, and

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Speaker 2: he was immediately talking to police and they actually cuffed

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Speaker 2: him and had him on the ground. So again in

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Speaker 2: this world where everything has to be published for everything,

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Speaker 2: people immediately said they have the shooter arrested, and they

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Speaker 2: had pictures of this guy. I think his name's George Zenn. Well,

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Speaker 2: George Zenn actually was being confrontational with police, but he's

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Speaker 2: not the shooter, and so all those pictures that were

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Speaker 2: around the world showed it innocent a man who was

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Speaker 2: not the shooter.

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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, the guy Zen said that

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Speaker 1: he did it. He started yelling.

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Speaker 4: That he would do it again, but the reality is he.

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Speaker 1: Didn't have a gun, and also in those tight quarters

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Speaker 1: with thousands of people, who knows what he was saying,

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Speaker 1: but he had to be taken into custody. At this hour,

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Speaker 1: we're learning a lot. Let's see the video of the

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Speaker 1: person on top of a roof scrambling away straight out

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Speaker 1: to former Army sharp shooter sniper CoA Lormer.

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Speaker 4: CoA, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: I'd like you to take a look, if you can

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Speaker 1: from your monitor of what we have seen. A dark

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Speaker 1: clad figure is above the Sparks Automotive building.

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Speaker 4: That's just one of the shots.

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Speaker 1: We have of the And I'll just go ahead and

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Speaker 1: say him because statistically this is a man, observe CoA.

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Speaker 1: He is in dark clothing, clad all in dark. He

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Speaker 1: dressed up for the event. This was an event which

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Speaker 1: I'm going to get into with our other guests later,

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Speaker 1: that had been.

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Speaker 4: Planned for weeks and months.

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Speaker 1: There he is right there, there he is, and he

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Speaker 1: actually jumped off the building. Why is it significant that

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Speaker 1: we know this event had been planned for some time

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Speaker 1: because anybody following Kirk would know exactly where he was

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Speaker 1: going to be. And CoA Lorimore, he was in the

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Speaker 1: most vulnerable position at the bottom of a pit, basically

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Speaker 1: in a fish bowl with little security. But for your purposes, CoA,

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Speaker 1: I want you to explain to me how you can

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Speaker 1: get a shot. We've been told this is about two

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Speaker 1: hundred yards away for where Charlie Kirk was speaking.

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Speaker 4: How do you do that?

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Speaker 5: So, Nancy, you would want to use a high power

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Speaker 5: rifle like I have right here.

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Speaker 4: This is a both asking rifle used for precision shooting.

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Speaker 5: It has a high power scope to magnify your target

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Speaker 5: and keeps your target very clear. This would also be

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Speaker 5: someone that has experienced shooting or has been trained. You

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Speaker 5: take anybody off the street, they're not going to be

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Speaker 5: able to make a shot like this.

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Speaker 1: How unusual is it for let's just say, someone of

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Speaker 1: your caliber, a sharp shooter, a sniper trained specifically to

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Speaker 1: be a sniper. How rare is it to get off

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Speaker 1: the shot two hundred yards? Is that normal for an

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Speaker 1: army sniper or is that unique for an army sniper?

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Speaker 5: It's very normal. I think the minimum distance of our

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Speaker 5: qualifications starts at three hundred yards and goes out to

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Speaker 5: one thousand.

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Speaker 1: That was not what I was expecting you to say.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was going to be rare. But you're saying,

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Speaker 1: for an army sniper of your caliber, a two hundred

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Speaker 1: yard shot, eh?

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Speaker 4: Is that what you're saying? Yes? I don't like that.

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Speaker 1: You know why I don't like that because I thought

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Speaker 1: it would be more rare for somebody to pull off

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Speaker 1: a shot like that Cole or more. But because it's

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Speaker 1: not rare that widens my pool of suspects. Do you

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Speaker 1: understand what I'm saying? Yes, CoA all right, two hundred

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Speaker 1: yard shot. Don't you have to prepare for that? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I to believe this is the first time this guy

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Speaker 1: climbed to the top of Sparks Automotive and laid there

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Speaker 1: and tried to get the shot. I think he had

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Speaker 1: to have gone up there before to a sniper's nest

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Speaker 1: and prepare. He had to have been up there to

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Speaker 1: see where they were putting the tent. He had to

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Speaker 1: be up there beforehand. My point is surveillance video and

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Speaker 1: who was on the grounds prior to the shoe could

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Speaker 1: reveal who is the shooter. Now, CO explain to me

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Speaker 1: what you have to do to prepare to pull off

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Speaker 1: a shot like that.

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Speaker 5: Well, the shot isn't just out of luck. The shooter

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Speaker 5: obviously had prior training. He also had to conduct a

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Speaker 5: reconnaissance operation see where he was shooting right where Charlie

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Speaker 5: was going to be at. This obviously was planned. His

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Speaker 5: exit plan was also planned. So this guy didn't get lucky.

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Speaker 5: It took some very intense planning.

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Speaker 1: Which leads me to CO, don't move Dan Murphy joining me.

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Speaker 1: Former NYPD detective sergeant Joint Terrorism task former chief security

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Speaker 1: officer at US Bank Corps, and co host of gold Shields. Dan,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us way in on who

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Speaker 1: is this guy tonight? A man hunt for the assassin?

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Speaker 1: After two arrests already, let me just say catch and

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Speaker 1: releases of suspicious persons.

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Speaker 4: They were not deemed to be the shooter.

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Speaker 1: At the end of questioning, there's the shooter, there's the shooter.

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Speaker 4: What about it? Dan Murphy? Who is this guy?

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Speaker 7: This person knows his way around the campus, and this

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Speaker 7: person absolutely went up and did reconnaissance on top of

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Speaker 7: that roof. This person also knows where the tent that

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Speaker 7: Charlie would be speaking under would be positioned, and as

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Speaker 7: a result, positioned themselves properly. I have seen in previous

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Speaker 7: cases where people have brought duffel bags filled with goods.

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Speaker 7: This rifle may have been up on that roof already

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Speaker 7: before he walked on campus that day. This person did

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Speaker 7: their planning.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 1: It's bringing to mind Luigi Mangioni, who planned for weeks

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Speaker 1: and weeks and weeks to gun down the CEO of

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Speaker 1: the healthcare industry. I want to follow up with what

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Speaker 1: Dan Murphy said. Dan, so you believe he had scoped

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Speaker 1: out pun he had scoped out the scene before he

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Speaker 1: knew where the tent was going to be. And what

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Speaker 1: were you saying about a Duffel bag In the past, I.

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Speaker 7: Have seen duffel bags brought up and left on rooftops

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Speaker 7: under ace, trac vents, etc. So that way the day

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Speaker 7: of the incident, they can walk up there nice and easy, unnoticed.

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Speaker 7: They're not carrying a bag. In other words, it's completely staged.

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Speaker 1: Nancy, so everything would have been there. Hold on, I

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Speaker 1: think I hear Catherine Schweit jumping in.

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Speaker 6: Go ahead, Catherine, you know, I just wanted to add

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Speaker 6: concurring with what Dan just said. You know, when the

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Speaker 6: individual shot at the President Trump in Pennsylvania, he was

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Speaker 6: a reconnaissance on the site three.

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Speaker 4: Times the day of.

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Speaker 6: Just the day of, he graveled more than a half

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Speaker 6: an hour to the site. So it's absolutely planned event,

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Speaker 6: including the reconnaissance.

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Speaker 1: Totally agree with him and Catherine CoA. Dan, that's so important,

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Speaker 1: and this is why.

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Speaker 4: Because he may have.

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Speaker 1: Left a trail on the prep sessions when he was

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Speaker 1: going up there was he con on surveillance video did

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Speaker 1: he park in a parking day where he had to

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Speaker 1: go in and.

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Speaker 4: Out where there are cameras? Who is this guy? We're

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Speaker 4: being told at this hour it is a young male.

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Speaker 4: How do they know that?

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Speaker 1: I don't know how they know that, but that is

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Speaker 1: the thinking tonight. Back to Cole Laura Moore joining us

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Speaker 1: former army sniper who put in literally thousands of hours

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Speaker 1: to become a sharpshooter.

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Speaker 4: You said, it's not just look but what about this?

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Speaker 1: Would for instance, an army sniper shoot into a crowd

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Speaker 1: of civilians, You had to be.

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Speaker 5: Very planning calculated right just to hit Charlie and not

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Speaker 5: to shoot any other armed civilians who's obviously training at

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Speaker 5: a range prior to And if you look at the

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Speaker 5: range logs, that's probably a telltale sign off who was there?

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Speaker 1: CoA brilliant, brilliant You know how a lot of sharpshooters

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Speaker 1: have been brought down by.

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Speaker 4: Doing just what you just.

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Speaker 1: Said, looking at every range, even remote ones within a

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Speaker 1: twenty five mile radius to find out who has been

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Speaker 1: practiced to saying, CoA, you're dead on. You know this

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Speaker 1: guy practiced and practiced and practiced long range shooting.

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Speaker 4: How does that work CoA.

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Speaker 5: You practice laundry shooting by shooting different environment types, taking

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Speaker 5: the wind into account. You just have to have time

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Speaker 5: and a lot of rounds downrange.

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Speaker 1: I'm also wondering what we know at this hour. To

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Speaker 1: Dave Matt, Crime Stories investigative reporter, what can you tell

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Speaker 1: me about the discovery of the murder weapon?

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Speaker 2: Directly behind that building, Nancy is a parking area that's

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Speaker 2: open to everybody, and adjacent to that is a wooded area.

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Speaker 2: That's where they found the bolt action rifle in the

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Speaker 2: tree area.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean the bolt action rifle in the

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Speaker 1: in the tree area?

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Speaker 2: Is creating the way to say, no, it was on

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Speaker 2: the ground, But I'm starting to say that it wasn't

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Speaker 2: like on cement in a bag sitting up for everybody.

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Speaker 2: It was actually placed in an area where it wasn't

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Speaker 2: sitting out in the open, but they were able to find.

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Speaker 4: It quickly enough.

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Speaker 2: I say bolt action because that's what it has been described.

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Speaker 1: As crime stores with Nancy Grace, do you co explain

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Speaker 1: what is a bolt action weapon?

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Speaker 5: This right here, Nancy, is an example of a bolt

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Speaker 5: action weapon. This itself is the bolt action. It open

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Speaker 5: and closes, so every time you shoot, you have to

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Speaker 5: chamber another round. This is an example of one of

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Speaker 5: the rounds that the shooter could have been. This is

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Speaker 5: a three zero eight and it's one of the most

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Speaker 5: common rounds.

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Speaker 1: It's just wait a minute, hold on, I've got to

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Speaker 1: look at that.

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Speaker 4: Zoom in on him.

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Speaker 1: That is the type of bullet that went through Charlie's neck.

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Speaker 1: That is a type of bullet that killed Charlie Kirk.

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Speaker 4: Look at that.

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Speaker 1: This s ob has got to be caught and put

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Speaker 1: on trial.

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Speaker 4: What explain to me what type of ballistic is that?

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Speaker 4: What type of bullet is that? KOA, This is a

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Speaker 4: three oh eight.

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Speaker 5: It's normally used for the army uses its takedown enemy personnel.

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Speaker 5: It's also used for hunting large game such as deer,

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Speaker 5: black bear, and wild hogs.

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Speaker 7: So do you know how many transgender Americans have mashooters

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Speaker 7: over the last ten years?

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Speaker 3: Too many?

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Speaker 9: Fine?

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Speaker 10: Okay, now by is a lot, right, I'm gonna.

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Speaker 4: Give you any of his credit. Do you know do

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Speaker 4: you know how many mashooners there have been in America

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Speaker 4: over the last.

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Speaker 5: Ten years, accounting or not counting gang violence.

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Speaker 10: He reached out to his neck and blood was starting

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Speaker 10: to gutshot.

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Speaker 3: Of his neck.

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Speaker 2: It's about two minutes in when the shot was fired,

401
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Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk's neck violently snapping back after the shot rang out.

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Speaker 1: What we believe to be the murder weapon has been

403
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Speaker 1: found in a would area not far from the shooting

404
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Speaker 1: of thirty one year old Charlie Kirk, the assassin leaving

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Speaker 1: his wife without a husband and his two young children

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Speaker 1: without a father.

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Speaker 4: Why we also.

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Speaker 1: Know that the bullet has been recovered, so we are

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Speaker 1: told now is the weapon left behind the weapon?

410
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Speaker 4: Is it a fake? Is a red herring? We can

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Speaker 4: determine that.

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Speaker 1: Very very easily, providing we have the bullet. Dan Murphy

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Speaker 1: joining me form my NYPD Detective Sergeant Joint Terrorism Task

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Speaker 1: Force Dan. A ballistics test is easy to run to

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Speaker 1: determine if the bullet that killed Charlie Kirk came from

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Speaker 1: that weapon or is the weapon a red herring? In

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Speaker 1: a nutshell, explain how that test will be done.

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Speaker 7: These tests had done very commonly across America anytime a

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Speaker 7: weapon is recovered to determine whether or not the rounds

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Speaker 7: found that a scene of a crime can match a weapon.

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Speaker 7: This is done through the art of ballistics, which is

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Speaker 7: looking at the various ways that the bullet itself has

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Speaker 7: changed during the course of its movements up to it,

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Speaker 7: including hitting bone, et cetera. But that bullet can be

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Speaker 7: traced back to the boring inside a rifle, and it

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Speaker 7: can be definitively set in court. This round was fired

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Speaker 7: from this rifle or this handgun, and that's what's going

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Speaker 7: to happen in this case.

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Speaker 1: As it works, the murder weapon will be shot. You

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Speaker 1: will sheet from the murder weapon into let's just say

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Speaker 1: a tub of water or into a mattress. As a

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Speaker 1: clean bullet hurdles down the barrel of what we believe

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Speaker 1: to be the murder weapon, the inside of the barrel

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Speaker 1: is unique.

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Speaker 4: It's like a fingerprint.

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Speaker 1: Why because as the gun was made, the metal cooled

437
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 1: in a certain fashion, with little dots and ridges and

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Speaker 1: imperfections on the inside of the barrel that you can't see.

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Speaker 1: And as the bullet hurdles down that barrel, it hits

440
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Speaker 1: up against those imperfections, leaving what we call a striation mark,

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Speaker 1: which is peculiar to that weapon. Only no other weapon

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Speaker 1: will create those striation marks or scratches.

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Speaker 4: That's an easy way.

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Speaker 1: Then you take the bullet that you just fired the

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Speaker 1: nun bullet and you compare it to the bullet found

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Speaker 1: in the scene, and you look at them under a microscope,

447
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: and you compare this striation marks on the bullet and

448
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 1: they will match if that's the murder weapon or did

449
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:11,919
Speaker 1: the shooter or someone else leave a red herring. We

450
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 1: also know a foot print was found straight out to

451
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: Greg Morris, joining US high profile defense attorney from Morse's

452
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:28,679
Speaker 1: legal author of the untested on Amazon, Greg Footprints, you

453
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 1: have to make a cast of the footprint to me,

454
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 1: depending on the surface on which you find the footprint.

455
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: Depending on the surface, footprints can be very very probative.

456
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: Now this is out in a wooded area. We think

457
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,719
Speaker 1: it's where the footprint was found. Hey wait a minute, Morse,

458
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: what if the footprint was found where the perp jumped

459
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:57,160
Speaker 1: down off the building. That would be a lot easier

460
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,479
Speaker 1: to test than a footprint.

461
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 4: Made on so earth.

462
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: See what I mean, the footprint Just think of you.

463
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:06,919
Speaker 1: Let's see, I don't know what kind of tint of

464
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 1: s shee you wear. Let's just say you wear Brooks, okay,

465
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: and you walk through the mud and you then walk

466
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: on your kitchen floor. The mud leaves a direct imprint

467
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: of your shoe, even telling me your shoe size, whether

468
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: you walk pigeon, toad, slue footed bear in on the

469
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 1: inside or the outside, it tells me a lot. Right,

470
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: So if they got this footprint where he jumped down,

471
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 1: I may get a lot. If it's on soft terrain

472
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 1: like around the tree in pine straw.

473
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 4: Or malleable earth, not so much.

474
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 1: But they're saying they got a footprint, right, What can

475
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:48,199
Speaker 1: you do with that?

476
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 4: Morse?

477
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 11: Well, it's for you know, potentially circumstantial, because you have

478
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 11: to arrest the assassin with the shoes on that made

479
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 11: the footprint and link them to him.

480
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 4: Nada. You can find the shoes in his car, in

481
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 4: his trot, in his.

482
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: Home, abandon anything, and once I get the shoes out

483
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,679
Speaker 1: of a dumpster, the DNA off of it.

484
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 4: Hello, thank man.

485
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 11: You're you're one hundred percent right, which also waters down

486
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,239
Speaker 11: the evidentiary value of that.

487
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 4: But you're right.

488
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 11: They can find the sneaker in the house, they can

489
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 11: find it anywhere. It doesn't have to be on his feet.

490
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 11: But what that's going to do as the police, you know,

491
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 11: police are reactionary, right, They are putting this together piece

492
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 11: by piece, and then they'll see how that fits in

493
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 11: if potentially a prosecutor someone's alive, they arrest them, charge

494
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 11: them to see how that.

495
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 4: Fits in with regard to this.

496
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 11: But I think there's a bigger point here, which is

497
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 11: this person was dressed in all black walking around a campus.

498
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 11: I looked at the weather in Utah yesterday. You see

499
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 11: most people are in T shirts. It was in the

500
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 11: low eighties, high seventies. It is beyond belief to me

501
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 11: that a person, a human, any human on that campus

502
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 11: didn't notice this. This is so out of character.

503
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 1: This guy was not walking around campus getting a diet

504
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: coke at the student union. This guy remained hidden and

505
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 1: he snuck to the building, went straight to the top.

506
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: For all I know, he was up there two days ago.

507
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 4: I don't know how long he's been up there. He

508
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 4: was not disagreement Hawaiian T shirt. No, but he's walked through.

509
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 4: He didn't just peer out of the sky. So I

510
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 4: think that's you know, me through. But I doubt he

511
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 4: walked through dressed like a ninja.

512
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 11: Well, it doesn't look like from the photos that you

513
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 11: know he's getting dressed up there. That's not normal.

514
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 4: Maybe he did, Maybe he didn't. But you're adding facts

515
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 4: that don't make much sense of cases.

516
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: And I'm wondering why right now he did not he

517
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: dressed like a ninja with a face mask on. He's

518
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: snuck up there, or he's been up there for overnight

519
00:28:58,760 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: for all I know.

520
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 4: But granted, yes, he stuck out like a sore thumb.

521
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: Ain't you just gave me another Ideatically he discarded that

522
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: face mask.

523
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 4: You know there's hair in it? Right?

524
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,239
Speaker 1: If I could just get part of that get up

525
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: he's wearing, guys, In the last hours, a press release.

526
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: A press release occurred, and we learned that investigators.

527
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 4: Have other evidence as well. Everybody listen.

528
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: They have not only a foot wear impression footprint.

529
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 4: But they also have a palm print.

530
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 1: The evidence includes a palm print and a four arm

531
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: m print.

532
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 4: Where did they get it? They? Did they get it

533
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 4: off the roof? Dan Murphy?

534
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: How difficult is it to get fingerprints off the surface

535
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: of a roof? And if this shooter did what Cole

536
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: Lormore says he did, he had a sniper's nest up

537
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: there before the shooting. Did he wear gloves on those days?

538
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: Did he go up there dressed as I said in

539
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: a Hawaiian T shirt or a Utah T shirt to

540
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: blend in.

541
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 4: I mean that is a huge, huge source of information.

542
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: Up evince one hair, one fingerprint, anything, Dan, how do

543
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 1: we do it? Yep?

544
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 7: Right now, you have got tons to work on in

545
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 7: this case. I have absolutely no doubt that this individual

546
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 7: will be arrested, and I think in the next forty

547
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 7: eight hours we'll see in arrest this person. As slick

548
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 7: as they think they are, they're not that slick. Everybody

549
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 7: screws up. If you left the forum impression, it's because

550
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 7: possibly up on the roof, it's a softer roof, maybe

551
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 7: there was a way because of the heat of the sun.

552
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 7: It'll enable that. But if you left the palm print,

553
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 7: that means he was not wearing gloves, provided it's his

554
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 7: palm print. If he's not wearing gloves, that means he

555
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 7: loaded the weapon without wearing gloves, which all leaves fingerprints

556
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 7: on rounds, on magazines, on all of it. All of

557
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 7: this is usable evidence. The hair, any DNA that may

558
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 7: come off, that is all usable evidence. This individual probably

559
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 7: from out of town. You're going to check hot tells,

560
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 7: You're going to check rental cars, You're going to check

561
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 7: vehicles parked in parking lots. You're going to check the video.

562
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 7: There's so many investigative avenues right now. I don't give

563
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 7: this person much chance to get out of this. They're

564
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 7: going to get caught.

565
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 1: I got something more for everybody to drink in. Earlier

566
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: today we learned that investigators say the perp arrived on

567
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: campus eleven fifty two a m. But that's just today.

568
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 1: That does not negate Lori Moore's assertion that this sniper's

569
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 1: nest had been staked out before and prepared before. But

570
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: on the day of the shooting, he arrived at eleven.

571
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 4: Fifty two a m.

572
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: And get this, they have been able to track Gibbs

573
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: movements on the campus through stairwells to a roof to

574
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: the shooting location. So doctor Chloe Carmichael joining us or

575
00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: a now psychologist and author, Chloe, this guy was lying

576
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 1: in weight. He was lying in wait since eleven fifty

577
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 1: two am this morning. And he didn't just show up.

578
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: He didn't just fall off the turnip truck outside that building.

579
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: He knew how to navigate the building's interior up to

580
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: the roof. He has been tracked all the way up

581
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: the stairwell into the building, up the stairwell, into the roof,

582
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 1: if he wasn't wearing gloves, if he touched that banister,

583
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: if he touched anything a door knob without.

584
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 4: The gloves on, He's toast.

585
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: Who plans something to this degree and why.

586
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 12: It's eerily similar. President Trump's assassination in Butler, Pennsylvania was

587
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 12: from a rooftop just one hundred and thirty three yards away.

588
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 12: This one was from a rooftop two hundred yards away.

589
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 12: I would like to understand, you know, why more isn't

590
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 12: being done as far as security. The healthy function of

591
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 12: anger is to stimulate boundary setting behaviors. So why when

592
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 12: we're angry about these attacks, why aren't we enforcing our boundaries?

593
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 12: Why aren't we strengthening our boundaries.

594
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 13: Accounting we're not coming day winess?

595
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 5: Oh my god.

596
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: Also, tonight we are learning that phrases were written on

597
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: the gun, written on the rifle and the ammunition discovered

598
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: in the woods, very very similar to phrases written on

599
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: the ammunition in the Luigi Mangioni assassination.

600
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 4: Who goes to the trouble to.

601
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: Write phrases related to cultural issues.

602
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 4: On the ammo?

603
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: We are learning among the markings initials at law enforcement

604
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: using in hopes of matching them with a suspect. Wow, okay,

605
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: Catherine Schweidt, you are the creator of the FBI's Active

606
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: Shooter program.

607
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 4: What does this mean?

608
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 6: I think this is very typical what we're seeing now

609
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 6: with some of our most scary shooters is they're wanting

610
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 6: to be famous, and this is the way they want

611
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 6: to be famous. They don't even necessarily have to have

612
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 6: a political bent or view. They just want to be famous.

613
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 6: And they see that other people have done this on

614
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 6: their weapons, not only in United States but worldwide, and

615
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 6: on their magazines and their ammunition to make sure that

616
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,760
Speaker 6: everybody knows who they are, and they identify on those

617
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 6: weapons lots of things like you know, political but also

618
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 6: cultural controversial things, and they just want to have a voice,

619
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:44,720
Speaker 6: and this is how they do it, a voice after

620
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 6: they disappear, after they die, if they commit suicide or

621
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 6: they're killed.

622
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,399
Speaker 1: What do you think about the video and what you've

623
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: learned on the FBI sac presser.

624
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 6: I think what we have is, as you just heard,

625
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,760
Speaker 6: we're going to be We're going to be going probably

626
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 6: to get this guy pretty quickly.

627
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 4: I think that.

628
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 6: The one thing that struck me about the press press

629
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 6: conference this morning is that the SEC said, we have

630
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 6: a good video from him getting up into getting to

631
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 6: the building eleven fifty two, getting up, getting on the building,

632
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 6: getting jumping off the building. Clearly they had full video

633
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 6: footage of him the whole ways, but I think that

634
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 6: they must have a shot where they have a face.

635
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 6: And the reason I say that is because he said,

636
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 6: we will release the video if we can't use technology

637
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 6: to identify who he is. And a it could be

638
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 6: that they're looking to tak to try to do a

639
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 6: palm print, but I think the fact that he said

640
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,240
Speaker 6: that gives me the impression that we probably have possibly

641
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,800
Speaker 6: a hood down someplace, a face uncovered at some place,

642
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 6: and otherwise they're going to release it and have people

643
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 6: hope to identifid And.

644
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: The reality is, Catherine schwa it doesn't have to be

645
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,439
Speaker 1: that day, since we know who was wearing a face

646
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 1: covering that day. That facial recognition video could be from

647
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: another day when he was walking through campus and heading

648
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,359
Speaker 1: over there to go up those steps, or it could

649
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 1: be the day of the shooting before he put on

650
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 1: the master's any number of times he could have been

651
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 1: caught on video facially.

652
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 6: Exactly they pulled this video footage, they find out the

653
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 6: same they pulled a feed from shooting yesterday.

654
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 4: They can pull the.

655
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 6: Feed from the day before and see a guy who

656
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,439
Speaker 6: doesn't have his face covered running a reconnaissance. So I'm

657
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 6: thinking that's why they think they might be able to

658
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 6: use technology to figure it out.

659
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 1: Straight back out to CoA lormore former Army snipers sharpshooter.

660
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: The type of weapons specifically is a thirty odd to

661
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:42,280
Speaker 1: six caliber high powered bolt action. It's a military rifle

662
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 1: very popular with hunters. Several bullets, including a spent round,

663
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: found in the rifles chambers were recovered.

664
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 4: Explained, so thirty.

665
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 5: Odd six is extremely common among hunters all across the

666
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 5: United States, especially in those Midwest states, and leaving the

667
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 5: round expended round in the chamber is essentially smart because

668
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 5: you don't want to leave anything on the target. You

669
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 5: don't want to leave anything on his sniper hide site.

670
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 4: What did you just say?

671
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: You don't want to leave anything on a sniper wet

672
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 1: is sniper's.

673
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 5: Nest you're referring to. You don't want to leave anything there.

674
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 5: So how he left the palm print, Yeah.

675
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, got you.

676
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: The palm print could also, Gosh, I don't think it's

677
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 1: going to be on the weapon. I think the forearm.

678
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 1: How would a forearm print get on the weapon? Looks

679
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,760
Speaker 1: like he's wearing long sleeves. Where would the forearm print

680
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 1: be found? Maybe from an earlier day when he was

681
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 1: up there?

682
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 4: How could you leave behind a forearm print? CoA.

683
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 5: The forearm print could be left behind either on the

684
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 5: ground or on the weapon based on how he's looks

685
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 5: like he's shooting, laying down, which is the most stable

686
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 5: shooting position for any long range shooter.

687
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:00,760
Speaker 4: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

688
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: Two special guests joining us now doctor Kendall Crowns, chief

689
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 1: medical Examiner Terran County. He is the esteemed lecturer at

690
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU. He's the star

691
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 1: of a Hitney podcast, Mayhem and the Morgue, and he

692
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: has performed literally thousands and thousands of autopsies for my

693
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: purposes tonight, including gunshot wound autopsies. I wanted you to

694
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: hear the type of ballistic and see the bullet type

695
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 1: that Cole or Moore.

696
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 4: Just showed us.

697
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: This couldn't have been instant instantaneous death a doctor Kendall

698
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 1: crowns because we know that Charlie Kirk grabbed I think

699
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,320
Speaker 1: with his right arm, grabbed his neck when he was shot,

700
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 1: so he knew what was happening to him, explain to

701
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:05,800
Speaker 1: us what happened.

702
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 10: So in the very graphic video of him being shot,

703
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,879
Speaker 10: you can see the wound coming into his neck right

704
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 10: around where I'm indicating, and he tips backwards right after

705
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,760
Speaker 10: he's shot, and he brings his arms up. But actually

706
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 10: when he's bringing his arms up, he's exhibiting what we

707
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 10: call decordicut posturing, which means his spinal cord has been

708
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 10: severed from his brain and it's no longer communicating with

709
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,280
Speaker 10: the rest of his body. So he was instantly rendered

710
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 10: a quadriplegic. So that movement you see is actually just

711
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 10: a reflexive movement by his nervous system trying to figure

712
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 10: out what's going on. Then you see him tipping to

713
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,280
Speaker 10: the side and blood start gushing out of his wound

714
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,240
Speaker 10: on his neck, which to me means it's an artery

715
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 10: that's hit more likely than not, the carotid artery and

716
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 10: the jugular veins, so he's hemorrhaging. Heavily out the side

717
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 10: of his neck as he's falling to the ground. Now,

718
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 10: this final cord being severed at this level could be

719
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 10: below C five C six, so he could still be

720
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 10: breathing and still be alive for a period of time,

721
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 10: which he was when he was rushed to the hospital

722
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 10: and die. But the damage that was done was so severe.

723
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,839
Speaker 10: Even if he had survived, he probably would have had

724
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 10: a stroke and he would have been a quadriplegic.

725
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 4: Would you ever consider making a run for the presidency?

726
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:34,720
Speaker 2: He knew that was devil.

727
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 8: I'm thirty one years old. I got a great life,

728
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,799
Speaker 8: and if they ever run out of people, I don't

729
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:44,280
Speaker 8: even know if I would consider it. You know why

730
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 8: people say, are you going to run for Senate or Congress?

731
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 8: I'd say, listen, honestly, I think the impact we're making

732
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 8: is bigger than sometimes some of the US senators. I

733
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 8: don't know if you guys agree or not. I do.

734
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,799
Speaker 8: But again, I'm not trying to be braggadocious, but I

735
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 8: can say what I want to say. We have a

736
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,320
Speaker 8: very successful podcast too. Listens to the Charlie kirkshow anybody?

737
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 3: I mean, it's amazing, Wow, he does and.

738
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 8: Our campus tours are sweeping, are sweeping the country, billions

739
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 8: of yews. I got over a thousand employees. I'm the

740
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 8: most blessed. I have to pinch myself when I wake

741
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 8: up every single day that I get to be able

742
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 8: to do this as my job, and so I never

743
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 8: want to lose that. I always just want the highest

744
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 8: and greatest.

745
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 4: Impact from Charlie Kirk insta.

746
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 1: At this hour, the manhunt is on for the lone shooter,

747
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:33,720
Speaker 1: the assassin that gunned down thirty one year old Charlie Kirk.

748
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of evidence. We have what we

749
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 1: believe to be the murder weapon. We have AMMO with

750
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 1: inscriptions written on it and or the murder weapon. Prayers

751
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 1: and thoughts two and four. Charlie Kirk's widow and two children.

752
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:01,280
Speaker 4: Listen.

753
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 13: I happen to be watching Charlie. I can't say I

754
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,840
Speaker 13: saw blood. I can't say I saw him get shot.

755
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 13: But as soon as that shot went out, he fell.

756
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 2: Back, and who was left.

757
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 11: And everybody hit the deck.

758
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 9: Charlie Kirk is back on the road, manning his Proved

759
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 9: Me Wrong table at college campuses around the country this fall.

760
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 9: Kirk is calling his scheduled appearances the American Comeback Tour

761
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 9: That Proved Me Wrong. Debates have grown from simple conversations

762
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 9: with a few students over a folding table to ticketed

763
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 9: events students and locals turn out to in the thousands.

764
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 9: Kirk's first stop this year is at Utah Valley University

765
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 9: in Orum, Utah.

766
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 1: That first seven from our friends at Fox News. At

767
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 1: this hour, the manhunt goes on for the assassin that

768
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 1: gunned down Charlie Kirk. Don't you know that every cam

769
00:42:55,760 --> 00:43:00,360
Speaker 1: is being processed, red light cams, doorbell cams, ring cam's

770
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 1: surveillance video at the campus and beyond cameras at firing

771
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: ranges where we believe the perp practiced this as the

772
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: latest developments are that the weapon and AMMO have been found,

773
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 1: which should give us a clue as to who is

774
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: the shooter. What about security? I mean, I know that's

775
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 1: would it could have, should have at this point, but

776
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 1: practically no security at the scene for Charlie Kirk. Also,

777
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 1: he's at the bottom of a fishbowl, much like the

778
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 1: Mandalay shooter, is completely vulnerable from a shooter at an

779
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:44,360
Speaker 1: elevated sniper's den.

780
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 13: Listen, Charlie has some security in front of him, but

781
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 13: you got the sense that the shot came kind of

782
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 13: straight at him, and I don't think there would be

783
00:43:56,239 --> 00:44:01,439
Speaker 13: many vantage points too far away because he was under

784
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 13: in the haunting.

785
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 9: Students and or locals who attended Kirk's American Comeback tour

786
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:09,320
Speaker 9: say there was a little security and no bag checks

787
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 9: or metal detectors at the event. The debate between students

788
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 9: and Kirk was a ticketed event, but students said on

789
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:20,800
Speaker 9: arrival campus staff was not checking them in and anyone

790
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 9: was allowed to come and go as they pleased.

791
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: That first down from our friends at Fox and Friends

792
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 1: back to Coote Laurimore. There's no way that security directly

793
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: in front of Charlie could have protected him from a

794
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 1: sniper at an elevated angle.

795
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 5: No, there's no way that they could have prevented this

796
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 5: with security just standing right in front of him. They

797
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,439
Speaker 5: would have to have security a couple hundred meters out

798
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 5: on all the buildings in the surrounding areas. It was

799
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 5: just a bad combination, Kle.

800
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 1: I'd like to see the bullet that you were showing

801
00:44:54,520 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 1: us again. Imagine that tearing through thirty one year old

802
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 1: Charlie Kirk's throat. Leaving behind a widow, a young widow

803
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:16,919
Speaker 1: and two infant children. To Dan Murphy joining US former

804
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:21,399
Speaker 1: NYPD Joint Terrorism Task Force, and so much more Star

805
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:27,839
Speaker 1: Goalshields Podcast, Dan. The evidence is piling up, but this

806
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 1: guy could still outsmart everybody.

807
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 7: Nancy, I don't think he's going to how smart to anybody.

808
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 7: I think he's left the trail of evidence because he

809
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 7: is the typical criminal in many ways. Who does that.

810
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 7: He's acting out of emotion. This is a well planned event,

811
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 7: but I don't care how well you plan it. The

812
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 7: typical person is going to screw up. They've left the trail.

813
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 7: They will be found. I have one hundred confidence and

814
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 7: arrest and the right person will be caught quickly.

815
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 14: The investigation is ongoing, but I want to make it

816
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:04,760
Speaker 14: crystal clear right now to whoever did this, we will

817
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 14: find you.

818
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about the

819
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:13,240
Speaker 1: identity of the assassin that took the life of thirty

820
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 1: one year old.

821
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,360
Speaker 4: Dad Charlie Kirk.

822
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 1: Please don't try and protect someone out of a false

823
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,359
Speaker 1: sense of loyalty. Don't believe that what you know is

824
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 1: insignificant or means nothing. It could very well be the

825
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,320
Speaker 1: one clue that cracks the murder case.

826
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 4: Tip line eight.

827
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 1: Zero one five seventy nine fourteen hundred Repeat eight zero

828
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 1: one five seven nine fourteen hundred tips dot FBI dot gov.

829
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 4: And of course.

830
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 1: The timing of the shooting is so heartbreaking as well.

831
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 1: Tonight we remember the thousands who lost their lives September eleventh.

832
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:14,280
Speaker 1: I was there that day and will never forget the pain,

833
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 1: the wake of pain left behind. On September eleventh, we

834
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: honor those the emergency workers, the military, police volunteers, those

835
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 1: people who put themselves in harm's way to save others

836
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 1: and for our freedom.

837
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:47,720
Speaker 4: And to the assassin, if you believe your bullet stopped us.

838
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:53,280
Speaker 1: And anyone from speaking out, you are very wrong.

839
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,359
Speaker 4: You have only empowered us.

840
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off, good bye friend,